Tesla Model S Can Hit (At Least) 132 MPH On the Autobahn

cartechboy writes "There are few places in the world outside of a race track that you can safely--and legally-- go faster than 130 mph, but the Autobahn in Germany is one of them. After Tesla announced it'll offer a future special 'autobahn' tuning package to improve the Model S's high-speed driving characteristics, one owner took his car for a high-speed run on the infamous Germany highway. He hit a maximum speed of 212 km/h, or 132 mph. With 416 horsepower on tap and full torque available from a standstill thanks to the electric motor, the Model S went from 60 mph to 100 mph in less than five seconds. (Given the included video is mostly focused on the speedometer, lets hope the driver at least glanced at the road.) Only once the car passed 100 mph did its acceleration begin to slow."

Comments

Speed is good, but what about range?

[Gonarat]

Electric motors are efficient as far as speed, but IMHO the Achilles's heel of electric cars is the range on a charge along with the ease and speed of charging the vehicle. I'd hate to be motoring down the Autobahn at 130-140 mph and run out of battery. A gasoline or diesel powered car has a range of 300-500 miles (depending on speed, engine efficiency, and size of tank), so assuming a 1/2 full or better tank, running out of fuel after 80-100 miles is not an issue. Even if the tank is low, it is easy to find a station and fill up in a few minutes, then get back on the road.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

The Tesla has a range of 300 miles.

You can fill up at a supercharger station in like 20 minutes or Telsa has shown a battery swap in 90 seconds.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

A gasoline or diesel powered car has a range of 300-500 miles (depending on speed, engine efficiency, and size of tank), so assuming a 1/2 full or better tank, running out of fuel after 80-100 miles is not an issue.

You're aware that Germany is a much smaller country than the US, so you would never have a reason to drive that far?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[zlives]

what is the range while doing said 132 mph?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

not at 210km/h it doesn't.

anyhow, almost any 2l or bigger motored car goes over 210 so what's the point here?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CastrTroy]

That's the manufacturer specified range under certain conditions. The range won't be the same for all power outputs. It's most likely not at it's most efficient at 132 MPH. That's not to say that any other car is (perhaps F1), but I'd like to see how it compares to gasoline cars that are also going at full throttle.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

WOW! 300 miles at 132 mph.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

Sure, but no gasoline car gets 300 miles at 130mph either.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[zlives]

also are there any tesla battery swap stations on the autobahn?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're aware that Germany is a much smaller country than the US, so you would never have a reason to drive that far?

I pretty sure a german could think of a reason to drive that far.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the range of the petrol car once you're at 132mph?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[zlives]

more than the tesla...

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are aware that there are other countries that border with Germany, and unlike USians, europeans actually know that other countries exist and go to them?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

No one said that.
Nor does any gasoline car I know of do that.

At those speeds air resistance becomes a real impediment to fuel economy.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

Citation?

I believe it, but I bet it would be pretty close. Especially since the Tesla is way more aerodynamic than most saloons. At those speeds air resistance will be a major factor.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

So Germans never visit other nations?

That does not seem to match up with what I saw in Europe.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the range of the petrol car once you're at 132mph?

Better than an electric piece of shit.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[defcon-11]

Well, lets says it's 5 mpg * 20 gallons, I would say you'd get around 100 miles in a stock street legal sports car.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[larry bagina]

1. That 20 minute number tesla likes to throw around is for a 50% re-charge.

2. Tesla swap stations don't exist yet and when they do, they're not a swap so much as an expensive rental with lots of fine print. Remember when blockbuster (remember blockbuster?) eliminated late fees? Great... but if you didn't return it in time, they decided you bought it and charged you even more. Guess what happens if you don't return your "swapped" batteries back to the same swap station within their specified time frame?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

So Germans never visit other nations?

That does not seem to match up with what I saw in Europe.

There are trains and planes and such. Cross-country drives are much less common here.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[zlives]

agreed, i don't have exact numbers as for some reason no one keeps such info ;)
however my 06 s4 did little over 80 miles at 135 (average) before i stopped to get gas. tank wasn't full but pretty close to start and it was a little less than quarter full at stop. so maybe 90 miles in that one specific example.
at 100 it went for over 200 miles so a pretty sharp drop...

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the range of the petrol car once you're at 132mph?

Better than an electric piece of shit.

Jeremy Clarkson, is that you?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[ArsonSmith]

I'd guess I wouldn't get the one they took from me back and I'd have to keep this new/old/different one.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Shawn Parr]

I'd hate to be motoring down the Autobahn at 130-140 mph and run out of battery. A gasoline or diesel powered car has a range of 300-500 miles (depending on speed, engine efficiency, and size of tank), so assuming a 1/2 full or better tank, running out of fuel after 80-100 miles is not an issue.

At 130+ MPH a gasoline or diesel powered car gets nowhere near 300-500 miles of range. They most likely are getting sub 10 mpg.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[cayenne8]

Back when I had my 1986 911 Turbo...on a highway trip, I was keeping it wound to about 105 or 110 for a long part of the first leg of the trip.

With the turbo kicked in and out...I usually got about 10mpg out of that engine. Granted, it had been raced before I bought it, and from what I know, it wasn't exactly a street legal compression in the engine, but my range from fill up to fill up (not fully empty mind you) was about over 200 miles....250 - 260 or so?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Guspaz]

The pricing scheme is supposed to be set lower than an equivalent amount of gasoline in the local market, so there's that.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Years that I live in the US, I drive 1.5 hours each way 4x a week in the US. Years that I live in Europe, I see no point in driving. The trains are actually useful.

Despite the rumors, the autobahn is just the German word for highway... with some exceptions, it's not as special as people make it out to be.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

My M5 can easily go over 250 miles at 132mph
also i recharge it in under 10 mins.

That telsa cant touch my top speed and cannot touch the refuel/recharge time.

electrics are getting better but they cannot touch my BEAST

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[cayenne8]

You are aware that there are other countries that border with Germany, and unlike Americans, europeans actually know that other countries exist and go to them?

There..fixed that for you...

And with the US being so large, one can travel here for a lifetime seeing new and different things and people and never have to leave the country.

Not necessarily a bad thing, just a different experience based upon geological location.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Overzeetop]

No, there's no way a Citation could hit 132 MPH

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[SerpentMage]

I call BS! I know I have. I drive a Mercedes and I can get 300 miles, or about 450 KM (regularly drive Frankfurt - Zurich), I have also drive a Fiat Coupe from Kiel to Cannes in one sitting (not one tank of gas)! Yes cars can get that mileage...

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[SerpentMage]

Really? You know, how so? I have driven those types of stretches and at that speed can get that mileage. And yes I live in Europe and yes I lived in Germany.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

My Corvette gets 26MPG easily on the highway. Granted, I'm not driving at 132MPH, but I'm not doing 55 either. Also, "recharge" takes less than 5 minutes at a commodity gas station... I don't need to drive 3 hours out of my way to the next state to find some fancy supercharge station and then wait another 20+ minutes while it charges "fast".

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Alright kids. Lets do some simple, conservative math to see what the difference is. A nice merc going 130 will burn through 18 gallons in about 270 miles, if we figure 15 MPG, which is probably a tad high. The city highway breakdown of one of these bad boys is 21/27, but air is really hard to move at those speeds. If we doc the tesla a similar percentage of efficiency, we get to about 190-200 miles before you drain the battery at 130+ mph.

The same merc at it's avg mix of highway and city will do about 440 miles on the tank of gas before it runs dry. After driving 440 miles, I'd probably need to stop for 90 seconds and take a piss anyways. Can we finally get over this? We're in the same order of magnitude, finally. Not everyone needs to break the latest canonball run record.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[zlives]

nice, mine was pretty stock other than lighter wheels and exhaust.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[GameboyRMH]

Definitely less than 10, that would be the upper limit of the MPG you might get at those speeds.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[SerpentMage]

Wow you have a really inefficient car... I regularly drive the Zurich - Frankfurt route, and can get from point A to point B in one tank driving REALLY fast! Sure there are spots where I am limited to 150 KPH, but other times I drive 250 if I can.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[BitZtream]

not at 130mph, where you're consuming fuel at a FAR higher rate and you're likely to be in the low teens as far as MPG.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Jeremi]

Tesla swap stations don't exist yet and when they do, they're not a swap so much as an expensive rental with lots of fine print.

Citation? Your post is the first place I've heard of any time-limit rules like that.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CastrTroy]

Just checked the numbers for F1. They've removed fuel stops, for those that don't know. The Montreal Grand Prix is 305 km, and last year the top time of 1:32:09.143, giving an average speed of 199 km/h. For those non-metric folk, that's 190 miles, averaging 124 mph. They spend a good deal going much faster than that. I think that an F1 car might be able to make the 300 mile mark at 160 mph if properly tuned. Although even then it might have a had time.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[jedidiah]

Never mind your "beast". ANY decent luxury sedan can cruise at 130MPG. I've done this myself on American roads.

The autobahn and BMWs are both overrated.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[NatasRevol]

Unless it has a JTOL on its roof.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was ready to call BS, but after a quick google search, apparently if you've got great aerodynamics, a shit-ton of torque, and a really steep 6th gear, it's entirely possible.

http://ecomodder.com/imgs/graph-speed-mpg-corvette.gif

(1640rpm in 6th at 120mph = wtf)

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm Chilean, so I'm American but not USian. And we travel and visit our neighbours (Argentina, Perú, Bolivia) by car.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[minstrelmike]

That's fer sure. In America you can drive to such fascinating places as the Grand Canyon, Utah, or Pittsburgh.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[lgw]

anyhow, almost any 2l or bigger motored car goes over 210 so what's the point here?

That was my first thought here. Every other car in Tesla's class (the V8 luxury sedans, all with similar HP) is either limited to 250 KPH (156 MPH), or goes a lot faster for the few with expensive tires. Going over 100 safely is all about tires and getting enough downforce to not lift off the road. I wouldn't think the Tesla would have either problem getting to 250! Beyond 250 you really do need tires that would noticeably inflate the price of the car, so few models come that way.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Tuidjy]

There is a huge difference between driving for range, driving sanely on the highway, and driving on the track. Here are my numbers, and they are real, recorded on the spot, as opposed to remembered.

The car: Volvo S60-R, modded to 460hp at the wheels, AWD fuse pulled.

Average MPG as of this morning: 29.7mpg. (It got smogged on Saturday, the guy took two tries and two hours, lowering my MPG by a full mile)
Usual average MPG: 31mpg
Best MPG from a trip: 36mpg (Chino Hills/San Diego and back)
MPG from a highway trip where I was driving like a moron: 8.7mpg (Chino Hills/Las Vegas)
Worst MPG ever: 3.3mpg on the track.

I've done 560 miles on a tank, and I have emptied my tank in under 60 miles. It really matters how you drive...

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[evilmidnightbomber77]

Round here? 'til the next cop car.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

"but I bet it would be pretty close"

You'd lose your money.

The energy density of petrol, and better yet, diesel cars is still unequalled.
Any number of modern diesels will better 132 mph and keep doing that for - literally - hundreds of miles.
The Tesla will be dead after less than 50 @ vMax.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's crap. The P1 gets over 30mpg, the Adventador around 18. Most supercars have been exceeding 15mpg since the 1970s, today all but the most OTT ones beat low end BMW and Mercs on efficiency.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

My '11 Juke with a 1.5L dCi - definitely not the most aerodynamic car out there - does 10.5L/100km at top speed, around 185km/h (on the speedometer, probably more like 175 on the GPS). Google tells me this equals roughly 23mpg at 110 MPH.

My father's '11 320d on the other hand, gets 15L/100km at ~215-220km/h. This comes out to 15 mpg at 130+ MPH.

Also, 300 to 500 is a HUGE range. Somewhat off-topic, but 300 miles is what a cheap car with an old (read: no turbo, e.g. VW MPI engine) gasoline engine gets, while 500 is more like a modern diesel, both at regular speeds.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

The energy density of petrol, and better yet, diesel cars is still unequalled.

That's irrelevant, because in an internal-combusion engine, most of that energy is just wasted as heat, and only a small fraction is used for locomotion. In an electric car, close to 100% of the stored energy is used for locomotion (unless maybe you have the heater on). You don't need the energy density of gasoline to make an electric car competitive with gas cars. (And diesel cars mostly don't exist in the US, or have insanely-high price tags: the VW models I've looked at carry a $5k surcharge to get the diesel engine.)

And no diesel or gas car is going to go 132mph for hundreds of miles, unless you've added an auxiliary fuel tank or something, because the efficiency at 132mph is crap, so you'll burn through your fuel tank in a much shorter distance than if you drove at an economical speed like 65mph.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[HybridST]

Maybe in freefall...

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[SternisheFan]

There is an added cost involved...

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/06/21/tesla-model-s-battery-swap-takes-just-90-seconds/

Musk framed the choice to Supercharge or swap as one between "free or fast." While Supercharging costs a Model S driver nothing, getting a new, fully charged battery pack will cost around the same as about 15 gallons of gas (so, let's say around $60). Later, you can get your old pack back (again, fully charged and for another $60 fee) or you can pay an undetermined fee and keep the pack. Forbes says there will be a warranty available on the replacement pack, depending on its condition.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

BS. You even said you're not driving 132mph. Your efficiency at 132mph will be much, much lower than at any normal highway speed up to 85mph since air resistance goes up exponentially with speed. Come back to us when you have some real mpg numbers at 132mph.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[electrosoccertux]

Pittsburgh ok but what's in the grand canyon?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

You what? My parents have spent nearly a month, on & off, driving around western Europe just this past year alone: last time they did France/Switzerland/Luxembourg/Germany/Netherlands in a single two week trip.

My father is a lorry driver for a logistics company and regularly did two-day trips to Germany or Italy, and he lives in the South West UK. Hell I regularly see German, Dutch, and various Eastern European cars driving around town here in the UK, and I'm not even paying particular attention to where the car is from.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not at 132mph.........

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

I call bullshit on you. Go look at your link again. That Corvette is doing 1640rpm at 75 mph, or 120 kph. The graph doesn't go any higher than 75mph.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[EvanED]

I'd love a Tesla for round-the-city driving, don't get me wrong, but 300 miles is an awfully generous; that's in ideal weather (warm enough the batteries don't suffer and cool enough you can get away without A/C) and at 55mph. Who the hell drives long distances at 55 mph? I'm sure some people do, but most people who have to go that distance are able and choose to take an interstate and go much faster.

It's not at all hard to get to get an estimate of a maximum range of around 180 miles in poor but realistic situations. The worst their calculator supports is 65mph at 32 degrees with the heater on, and there it's 218 mph. What would it get if it was 20 degrees and you were going at 70 (like the speed limit on the Indiana and Ohio turnpikes)?

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

haha, ok grandpa

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[clarkkent09]

Why are people talking about 300m being some kind of a long trip. Take Southern California for example. Literally millions of people drive to Las Vegas or Bay Area every year, many of them multiple times a month. Both of those trips are outside Tesla range. Tesla will be great when there is a supercharger station in just about every gas station. Even then 20 minutes for 50% charge kinda sucks, but I think I could live with that. Until then it is still not a realistic option as the only car for most people in this part of the world. Most families here have multiple cars through so I can see Tesla being one of them though.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[EvanED]

s/keep/buy/ and you'll have it right.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[TWiTfan]

Plus a significant handling fee, I imagine. Otherwise, what incentive would you have to bother?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[swb]

And even worse, during an actual race they brake and accelerate a lot, which uses a lot more fuel than going a constant speed. Like the "City" versus "Highway" mileage ratings.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

In an electric car, close to 100% of the stored energy is used for locomotion (unless maybe you have the heater on).

And the headlights, and the radio, and the bluetooth adapter, and the fans for the climate control system, and the ECU, and the BCU, etc.

Which leads me to a question I've wanted answered for some time: under normal usage, when all those things I mentioned are drawing power... how does it all break down usage wise? For example, I can go into the Settings screen on my Android device and see how much battery power has been used by what hardware/apps; what do you think that screen might look like for a Tesla S?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

What's the range of the petrol car once you're at 132mph?

Better than an electric piece of shit.

Jeremy Clarkson, is that you?

Nah, he'd have had a much better burn than 'electric piece of shit.' That's the kind of wit I would expect to come from a James May fan.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

I'd guess I wouldn't get the one they took from me back and I'd have to keep this new/old/different one.

Yup, and probably have to pay the difference between the core (which is what they'll classify your old battery as, regardless of how new it might be) and the brand-new retail price of the pack. How much does one of those cost new, anyway?

If Tesla owns all the swap stations in-house, you might get off lucky (after all, who would want to royally piss of their own customers by screwing them over and over again? In the private sector, anyway); but if the swap stations are independently owned, it would likely be a completely different story.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

The pricing scheme is supposed to be set lower than an equivalent amount of gasoline in the local market, so there's that.

There's what? Idle speculation based on what a for-profit company says they might do in the future?

"Supposed to" == vaporware, for all intents and purposes. I'll believe it when I see it.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[nschubach]

My Audi S4 seems to be able to translate what impact my AC has on fuel. It gives a little graph stating how many gallons per hour it's using. I'm sure if the Tesla S has the appropriate sensors a nice little info screen must be hiding around somewhere.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

And the headlights, and the radio, and the bluetooth adapter, and the fans for the climate control system, and the ECU, and the BCU, etc.

None of that stuff uses any significant amount of power. Headlights are about 35-40W for Xenons, radio is surely less than 10W with today's class-D amplifiers, you have to be a total moron if you think Bluetooth uses any significant power, climate control fans are maybe 10W, ECU etc. are a few watts max. Compared to the Tesla's battery pack that supplies several thousand amp-hours of energy, all that stuff is nothing. The only thing that's going to affect range in any significant way is the use of the heater or air conditioning. In real driving, your driving style is going to have far more impact on the range: whether you accelerate too much, brake too much (and don't use regenerative braking), or even if you have the sunroof open.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

How about a citation for that?
Name one car that can go those distances at those speeds. Fuel economy suffers at these speeds pretty badly.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

I'm Chilean, so I'm American

Wow... just... just, wow.

Do we really need to have this discussion again? Because it was stupid last time.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only in a vacuum.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mostly just air, after all, what's in a hole?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! I drive 400 miles on the highway on a 12 gallon tank in my 2007 Toyota Corolla. Car fags are the worst fags.

Captcha: pullover

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[BullInChina]

Mine also gets the 26 mpg up to about 80 mph. Afraid to average more than this for long stretches due to the high cost of citations.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[tinkerton]

Not exponential, quadratic I thought. So power goes up by the third power. Twice the speed, 8 times the power. But it's not accurate, otherwise a Veyron could do 500 kph with only 125 bhp.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[cbeaudry]

Read the comment you replied too.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[tinkerton]

I mean 200kph for the Veyron. duh.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[bigwheel]

It's not exponential. Energy required per unit distance is roughly proportional to the square of speed.

So, if AC's Vette gets 26 MPG at 66 mph, then it would work out to roughly 6.5 MPG at 132 mph.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[deadweight]

I had an old Volvo 740 with the boost bumb up kit and the extra fuel mod. At 130 MPH I swear you could see the gas gauge move!

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

after all, what's in a hole?

Are we still talking about the Grand Canyon, or Pittsburg?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

\o/

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[The Grim Reefer]

from what I know, it wasn't exactly a street legal compression in the engine,

Street legal compression? I've never heard of a state that has limits on compression ratios. Granted, if you get too high using pistons on a naturally aspirated engine, you'll have a hell of a time finding street legal fuel. On the other hand, if it's due to the boost from a turbo, it's a little different. But then catastrophic engine failure is a possibility. Then there are diesel engines that have significantly higher compression ratios by design. I'm not familiar with any states that have laws limiting this. If there are, how is it enforced? I can't imagine a state trooper carrying around the equipment to measure this. Or having the competence to do it.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Citation?

I believe it, but I bet it would be pretty close. Especially since the Tesla is way more aerodynamic than most saloons. At those speeds drag will be a major factor.

FTFY.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

He also fails to realize that those same accessories are kept powered by the (inefficient) ICE in a 'normal' car, by way of the alternator charging the battery. So, whatever the energy losses involved in running those, you've got to multiply it by the very same inefficiency factor of the ICE engine for a 'normal' car that he was trying to dispute by raising them as examples.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

You what? My parents have spent nearly a month, on & off, driving around western Europe just this past year alone: last time they did France/Switzerland/Luxembourg/Germany/Netherlands in a single two week trip.

This trip could be as little as 300 miles or so, depending on the route. Which is actually the range of the Tesla. They refueled sometime during their month off, right? You're only going to impress people that don't know that those countries are all right next to each other.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are people talking about 300m being some kind of a long trip.

I walk slow, you insensitive clod!

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

300 miles at 130mph?
Let's see some citation for that.

At 80mph you would be doing well to get 15mpg. Even then you would need a 20 gallon tank. At 130 you would be getting much worse mileage.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, there's no way a Citation could hit 132 MPH

Are you kidding? That's about takeoff speed.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[The Grim Reefer]

In an electric car, close to 100% of the stored energy is used for locomotion (unless maybe you have the heater on).

And the headlights, and the radio, and the bluetooth adapter, and the fans for the climate control system, and the ECU, and the BCU, etc.

Except you have all of those things in a gas powered car too. The alternator puts extra load on the engine to power them as well as charge the battery in a gas powered car. However in a gas powered car, the weight of the gas is lower than the weight of the batteries. So, the energy density is higher. And as the fuel is used, the total weight of it decreases. In an electric car, the batteries weigh the same whether they are fully charged or completely drained. It's not so much about the percentage of stored energy that is used. It's how much energy is produced/exerted vs. how much the source weighs.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[zlives]

i don't know about 130 but at 145-155 yeah it moves

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

Sorry, it's quadratic, not exponential. The point is the same though: the Vette will get terrible fuel economy at 132mph; if your calculation is anywhere near correct, 6.5mpg is pretty horrible, and for a 20-gallon tank yields only a measly 130 miles of range at 132mph, not too far off the other poster's contention of 100 miles.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

That's true too. The only place where ICE cars have any advantage at all is when you're running the cabin heater: in an electric car, it uses a non-trivial amount of power to generate heat to heat the passenger cabin, whereas in an ICE car, the heat is free since you just divert the engine's waste heat to the cabin instead of the main radiator.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

A typical modern car might have a 120 amp alternator, and be using 60 amps at cruise. That's a full horsepower - it's not huge, but given that at hightway speed you might need less than 15HP to maintain speed, it is significant to mileage. This gets both better and worse as more electric accessories are added: better because they are often replacing mechanical accessories which sap even more power, worse because electric power steering or air conditioning is not a trivial load.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[The Grim Reefer]

Pittsburgh ok but what's in the grand canyon?

The Colorado river?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Guspaz]

I'm not speculating, but repeating what they've specifically said they will do.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

They crashed a few too many parties in the 30s and 40s. They don't get around quite as much now.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

I dispute your claim of 60A at cruise: where is all that power going? Most cars don't have enough accessories to use that much power, except for charging current needed for the battery. Obviously, an electric car does not need to recharge the batteries while driving, since that makes no sense, but it is a minor load for ICE cars.

Electric power steering does not use any power at cruise, only at low speeds when you're actually turning the wheels and need assistance. The P/S on my current old (ICE) car is currently broken as there's a leak in the system and I haven't gotten around to fixing it yet, and once you're past 10mph, you can't even tell there's a problem, and certainly not at highway speeds (maneuvering into parking places is a bit of a PITA though). It has zero effect on highway range on any decently-engineering EPS-equipped car.

Air conditioning is not a trivial load, except that on ICE cars, it's not much of an electrical load at all! The compressor is driven directly by a belt from the engine. The only electrical loads associated are for the compressor clutch (which engages the compressor instead of letting it free-spin), the condenser fan (a few amps maybe, easily the biggest load associated), and the ventilation fan (which is usually running with or without A/C anyway, and is totally independent). So except for those two fans, that's not really adding to your claimed 60A figure, which I think is total BS.

There are a lot of electrical accessories on cars these days, but they don't use much power, except in a peaky, transient way: EPS uses a lot of power, but only in short bursts when it's providing assist, at low speeds. ABS might use some power, but only when it's actually releasing brake pressure. The other big power users (fans, headlights, other lights) haven't changed in decades, except that now they're generally more efficient (LEDs vs. incandescents, Xenon headlights vs. halogens in higher-end cars, fans haven't changed at all). The real problem with electrical accessories in modern cars is that many of them are drawing a very small but non-zero amount of power when the car is turned off ("parasitic loads"). For a car driven daily, this isn't a problem, but if you let your car sit a couple of weeks in an airport parking lot for instance, or you have a spare car you only drive on rare occasion, this can mean your car's battery is unable to start the car when you want it. While driving, they're utterly insignificant, but a few milliamps of constant draw will have a significant effect on how long your car's battery lasts, when you're letting the car sit for days, weeks, or months.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[jamesh]

Electric motors are efficient as far as speed, but IMHO the Achilles's heel of electric cars is the range on a charge along with the ease and speed of charging the vehicle. I'd hate to be motoring down the Autobahn at 130-140 mph and run out of battery. A gasoline or diesel powered car has a range of 300-500 miles (depending on speed, engine efficiency, and size of tank), so assuming a 1/2 full or better tank, running out of fuel after 80-100 miles is not an issue. Even if the tank is low, it is easy to find a station and fill up in a few minutes, then get back on the road.

I assumed that the "at least" comment in the headline meant "we got to 132MPH and could have gone faster but ran out of battery" ;)

btw, a modern turbo diesel engine in a small/medium car should be able to do 1000km (~600miles) on a 50L tank easily. I could get 1200km (~730miles) in my car at highway speeds on a good day

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[SeattleGameboy]

What luxury sedan gets 130 miles per gallon?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just cause you drive a corolla doesn't make you a fag. Unless it has an automatic.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

My car is a BMW 120d. At speeds around 190-200 kph, it does 9-12 l/100km, at top speed (230), it's about 15l/100km. That's about 15 mpg.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, typo, 9-10l/100km, not 9-12.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[HornWumpus]

The $60 swap fee will last until Teslas need battery pack replacement. After that it's just unsustainable.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[neurovish]

Citation?

I believe it, but I bet it would be pretty close. Especially since the Tesla is way more aerodynamic than most saloons. At those speeds air resistance will be a major factor.

I don't have exact numbers for speeds and everything, but a A6 TDI can make it from Magdeburg to Dusseldorf with the accelerator to the firewall at every chance on 1 tank. That's 260 miles, and I'm pretty sure the tank was not empty by Dusseldorf. Top speed was a traffic limited 164 MPH. I think our average MPG was somewhere in the teens. I don't see a Tesla being able to come close to that, but it's also not what the Tesla was designed for and almost exactly what an A6 TDI is designed for.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[turtleAJ]

Your answers are insightful, yet I will correct you on the fans.

The internal HVAC fan can pull 30 Amps (check out the fuse... that's normal, not out of the ordinary).

30A * 12v = 360 watts

Now, the "condenser fan" ... usually cars don't have specific fans for the condenser (usually).
If they're electric fan, they have one (or two) fans behind the radiator.
When the a/c engages, they turn on the fans regardless if the engine temperature needs it or not.
And those motherfuckers will pull a bitch of power.

One fan that comes to mind because of its popularity in engine conversions is the Ford Taurus electric fan.
On high-speed, it will pull 35amps.
35A * 12v = 420watts

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[DriveDog]

Quadratic, roughly, but don't forget about the linear and constant terms. At low speeds, much of the drag is caused by rolling resistance and internal friction (in ICE cars).

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize it's illegal to stop on the Autobahn because you ran out of fuel???? So you better be careful not to run out your battery on a fun run.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

Sorry, no: a fuse rating is not an indication of how much power something pulls, except in a relative way. A fuse has to be significantly higher than the peak current a load may draw (if you operate too close to a fuse's rating, it'll blow early even without the limit being exceeded, just due to age). And fan motors draw more current at start-up than during continuous operation. So, I'm guessing, a typical fan on a 30A fuse probably uses only about 10A continuous. That's only 120W.

As for condenser fans, this depends on the car. My old Integra has a wide radiator with dual fans; the larger fan is the main engine fan, and the slightly-smaller fan (more in terms of motor size than physical size, so it probably has a lower airflow rate) right next to it is for the A/C condenser (the condenser sits right in front of the main radiator, and is almost the same size, just a lot thinner). On this car, whenever the A/C is turned on, the condenser fan is turned on too, I believe without any thermostatic switching (and without affecting the main fan). Admittedly, it's an older car now, so other (and newer) cars probably do things a little differently and more efficiently. But as for "a bitch of power", at least on this car, the A/C fan is the smaller of the two, meaning they probably don't think the A/C condenser needs as much airflow as the main radiator when it's getting too hot and has to turn on its fan.

And for your 35A Taurus fan, that sounds ridiculously large, and even if it really does use that much power, certainly won't work on a 30A fuse for obvious reasons. I'm guessing you'd need a 50A fuse at a minimum for that, maybe 100A (I don't think there's any sizes between 50A and 100A). You sure 35A isn't just a peak figure? Fans will probably use the most current at start-up.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[mjwx]

Citation?

I believe it, but I bet it would be pretty close. Especially since the Tesla is way more aerodynamic than most saloons. At those speeds air resistance will be a major factor.

Oh no you dont.

Compare like to like.

There are plenty of sports sedans/saloons out there. The Nissan Skyline 350 GT whilst being a 6.8 second car can manage 155 MPH with a 3.7L V6 and get 2-3 hours out of it's tank. Now the Skyline 350GT is an average car where as the Telsa is selling for Porsche 911 Carrera money, or a Nissan GT-R both of which will utterly smoke a Tesla (even in aerodynamics, they are designed to be supercars). Realistically a Subaru Impreza WRX STI or Mitsubishi Lancer EVO will outperform the Model S and outrun it at 130 MPH and they costs under US$40,000 for the top model. The only thing that separates the Model S from its petrol powered contemporaries is that it isn't petrol powered.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

At 75 MPH my 14 year old gasoline-powered station wagon averages 28 MPG (US measures). This is actual refill-to-refill measurements over a 350 mile trip including thousands of feet of elevation gain and loss (returning to near sea level at both ends) and often experiencing cross winds. This is 75 MPH average, with lots of 80 MPH periods and some traffic that slows it down in places.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

OK, so parroting speculation. Whatever.

Still vaporware.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, I think you mean quadratically, not exponentially.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I read that as VTOL (vertical take off and landing).

While I do think personal helicopters / flying cars are a wonderful idea - I think Americans* are certainly not capable of handling that until computer controlled driving is the norm.

Think of how many accidents happen when people only need to worry about 2 dimensions...then add a third dimension. You think people can keep track of what's up and down? They can't even pay attention to what's straight ahead! And the ground offers friction for breaking much better than the air does (similar to water in that case)

If there's an accident in flying cars something is likely to come crashing down. Do you want a flying car coming through your roof?

Next comes maintenance - Do you want to worry about parts falling off of some poorly maintained jalopy while you're just walking down the street? When a part falls off a car it's not so likely to injure someone. There's also the infamous random shoe on the roadway. You'll never find whatever your 3 year old chucks out the window.

* I say Americans because that's what I'm familiar with, but I doubt that anyone else could handle it either.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but things like temperature, speed, and driving style affect that 300 mile range a lot more than a gas/diesel car. People usually expect in cold climate that your gas mileage will go down 1-3 MPG in the winter time. I've read articles that state that the Tesla Model S's range can be cut in half in the winter time in cold climates.

If you're car gets 30 MPG in the summer and 28 in the winter, big deal. If it gets 30 MPG in the summer and 15 in the winter.. that's a different story.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you realize that, assuming his numbers are true, he can drive more than 400 miles on 12 gallons? I know shit about Volvos (nor why, if you can afford to boost one, you don't just get something with a bit more bling) but with numbers like this, it must be a turbo, which means that when you want it to, it can be very economically.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

A long way down

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Going to agree that he's spouting some BS there, but at 75-80mph I get ~30-32mph in my little Celica.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[NatasRevol]

Grain of salt.

I meant JATO.

As in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ORXv_1XlDY

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

As any track driver knows, it's not about going the fastest in a straight line. It's about going the fastest through the turns.

BMW's aren't too shabby in this respect for the luxury sports sedan segment. If you want to go the fastest in a straight line for the least amount of dollars, get a Mustang (although they have vastly improved their handling abilities).

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Sique]

It's at least plausible. With the old Audi 4000 of my father, I got 400 miles out of 10 gallons, but I was never driving faster than 60 mph on that trip.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

Which means at 130mph you would not even get half that.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're exagerating – at 80mph you'll manage well into the 20s, possibly 30s if you're driving a sane european car. However, the drag goes up quadratically with speed, and becomes the dominant factor (compared to other inefficiencies in the vehicle) around 80-100mph. At 130mph he'll be lucky to get more than 6 or 7 mpg.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[tinkerton]

and a tank of over 20l is not uncommon with large cars.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[flibbajobber]

They also use 150kg of fuel (~200L or ~53 gallons) so you're looking at around 4mpg over the full race.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[fyngyrz]

At those speeds, drag will be a major factor

Ok, I'm calling bullshit on that one. At those speeds, how can you tell if it's a real chick or a guy in drag?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

my 2000 911 gets 26mpg highway, 17mpg city, and about 6mpg at the track. All on crappy 91 octane Cali pump gas. Fortunately my commute is 5 miles, so the Prius driving downtown burns a lot more gas than my Porsche. It matters not only HOW you drive, but HOW FAR. Moral: to save gas, do not buy a Prius. Move closer to work instead. (none of the Prius drivers interviewed for this comment thought that was funny, but I sure do. They are a bit too righteous, methinks.)

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[sosume]

My A4 does 9 liter diesel per 100km while cruising at 210 km/hr (and when I'm the only person in the car). It does 4.6 l/100km normally at 100kmph, 62mph. Which roughly translates to 21 mpg at 130mph. With a full tank that means I can get up to 600 km, over 350 miles, at this speed.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about for those of us that work in our cars,

Driving 150-15- miles a day, 8-12 hour days, I understand this is not for my line of work yet.

I am quite concerned however how the electrics will effect the battery life.

    Computer connected to inverter always on. ( if i'm going to get an electric car I'd get a new laptop) gps dongle connected to comp all the time, phone cable to download work stuff, and stream music.

Hand held camera charging in car. often.

Yellow caution lights on roof. not used too often.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

tesla?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

I realize aerodynamic drag increases super-linearly with speed. My only point was that your statement "At 80mph you would be doing well to get 15mpg" is a huge exaggeration... your tone is rankling a lot of us who know that things are more nuanced than this discussion thread makes it out to be. My wagon would be running into its electronically and mechanically limited speed at 130 MPH, would be very unsafe with its all season tires, and would be to easily blown off the road. But it isn't that difficult to reach such speeds, even with a little 4-cylinder engine.

It would be interesting to know what factors have caused Tesla to program such a limit into their car... one suggestion up-thread is tire safety, since 130 MPH is one tier of tire speed ratings. But it might also be other power-train limitations. Too bad the user didn't do more acceleration runs starting at different cruising speeds. There might be a limit to how long the Tesla can sustain peak output before it has to be throttled to allow the motor, battery, or drive electronics cooling systems to catch up. This is different than most ICE cars where the cooling system can support full load for sustained periods.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Never mind your "beast". ANY decent luxury sedan can cruise at 130MPG. I've done this myself on American roads.

The autobahn and BMWs are both overrated.

Cruising in a straight line is one thing. ANY decent car can do that. Turning, and especially turning at speed, that's another matter all together.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[riverat1]

Pittsburgh ok but what's in the grand canyon?

Maybe you're just trolling but as someone who spent 23 days rowing a raft 270 miles through the bottom of the Grand Canyon I can say what is in the Grand Canyon is magic. My trip was over 19 months ago and I still can't think about it without "being" there.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

You apparently have not seen that that citation that the dude stuffed a 4.9L Deville engine in, from what i understand it wasn't an overly hard mod and it made the thing Fly.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

A true James May fan would probably be more eloquent than that, and would perhaps refer to the Tesla as an Edison bothering boondoggle.
We're looking at a Hamster fan.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[canadian_right]

It can go faster than 132mph, but the Bugatti Veyron will empty its tank in 12 minutes at top speed.. Which is a good thing as the tires only last 15 minutes at top speed.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[canadian_right]

It can go faster than 132mph, but the Bugatti Veyron will empty its tank in 12 minutes at top speed.. Which is a good thing as the tires only last 15 minutes at top speed.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[inasity_rules]

Flat out my 1.8l Elantra does 30-40l to 100km, which translates to a range of around 110-200km - roughly comparable. Also, they lied about the top speed in the advertising blurb. More precise numbers are unavailable, since under those conditions I don't trust the l/100km measurement.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

VW Passat.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[shikaisi]

My M5 can easily go over 250 miles at 132mph also i recharge it in under 10 mins.

That telsa cant touch my top speed and cannot touch the refuel/recharge time.

You can change the battery on the Tesla in 90 seconds.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

talking about ac fan power is stupid since it's the other parts of the ac which take most of the power used to run the ac.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[turtleAJ]

It would be awesome to get some actual measurements... yet I can't tell you if the Taurus fan does pull 35A continuously.

As an aside... I know there's an American company that makes these nifty relays for automotive use: they ramp up the fans to full power, instead of on/off.

Good discussion.
Have a good one!

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

Let's see some evidence for that.
I find that pretty unlikely. To be clear, it must go 300+ miles on one tank when traveling at 130mph the entire time, save for the flat out sprint up to 130 at the start.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[h4rr4r]

I never said it was difficult to do so. I said it was difficult to do so and get good gas mileage. Most cars that size do not get 15mpg at 80mph. Your wagon sounds a good but smaller.

Actually many ICE cars cannot support their full load for much more than sprints. I have had several cars in which to do so you had to crank the heat to max, to cool the engine.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Gonoff]

No, there's no way a Citation could hit 132 MPH

The ones from Cessna can.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

No, not on a gas/diesel car, the fan is the largest load. We're talking about electric power consumed here, and how much of a load the A/C puts on the alternator. On gas/diesel cars, the A/C compressor (the largest energy consumer in the system) runs from a belt connected to the engine, so it has almost no effect on the electrical system (except for the electric compressor clutch which engages it). On electric cars, this is different since the A/C compressor would need to be powered by its own electric motor.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[SteakNShake]

Same here in my beat-up 2004, looks like shit but gets in excess of 35mpg consistently, can't drive stupid though, speed limit or less all the way.

Re: Speed is good, but what about range?

[SteakNShake]

Wow spaz obsess much about flying cars?

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[KingMotley]

About 504 miles in my 2014 stingray (18.4 gallons @28mpg).

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah, that reminds me of my 70s volvo that needed the heater on to make it over a mountain pass in July. But that was due to a clogged main radiator... once we replaced it, there was no trouble. And the heater in a 70s volvo was practically a spare radiator thanks to those Swedish winters...

And just for closure, my old wagon is an Audi A4 1.8T (turbo 1.8L I4) with an official curb weight of 3351 lbs. and permanent all-wheel drive. With its current ECU programming it develops about 210 horsepower at the crank, and enough torque that I can run up mountain passes at 70mph in 5th gear with the only visible effect being that the oil temperature gauge climbs a bit higher. I don't know if it would overheat eventually because I don't have any mountain climbs that continue long enough without topping out or having lots of tight corners.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Grishnakh]

None of those use any siginficant amount of power, except for the caution lights which probably would cause your electric car to use more power simply because they screw up the aerodynamics so much. Using the heat or A/C will have a far greater effect on your range.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Cramer]

Buy a plugin prius and add one of the aftermarket uber-battery packs.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[Anonymous Coward]

Los Angeles to Las Vegas is under 300 miles. Doable under optimum conditions. Much more doable if the driver plans a lunch stop in the middle to top off the batteries.

If someone is routinely doing 300+ mile trips in one long shot, then the Tesla isn't the car for them. There are lots of cars that aren't appropriate for all usage scenarios. (Although, this argument does show how well the Tesla is doing. The only argument people can come up with is a corner case that 90% of car buyers will never encounter.)

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[ArsonSmith]

except that's just not how it works. I swap kegs in my kegorator all the time. I paid the initial deposit and haven't been charged since, except for the contents of the new kegs.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[ArsonSmith]

Fortunately a for-profit company can only do what the market will bear. Only the government can force you to buy something you don't want.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

except that's just not how it works. I swap kegs in my kegorator all the time. I paid the initial deposit and haven't been charged since, except for the contents of the new kegs.

batteries are not like kegs, dude. For starters, you can refill a keg indefinitely as long as you don't damage the casing too much; batteries, not so much.

Think more like what happens when you go to an auto parts store to swap out your car's lead-acid battery with a new one: they charge you $80 for a new battery, but give you $5 for your old one if you trade it in (called a 'core charge'). Why only $5? Because you've already burned up most-if-not-all the recharge cycles (which is why you're replacing it), and thus the old one is basically scrap at this point.

Independently owned swap stations will inevitably engage in the same practice, to offset expenses when replacing out-of-recharge-cycle batteries, rare as that occasion might be. CYA is good business sense.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[CanHasDIY]

Fortunately a for-profit company can only do what the market will bear. Only the government can force you to buy something you don't want.

Who do you think "convinces" the government to mandate such things? The for-profit businesses that stand to gain from the mandate.

Kinda like how the PPACA legislation was pretty much written by insurance companies.

Re:Speed is good, but what about range?

[ArsonSmith]

"CYA is good business sense."

Unless it drives away your customers. What good is gouging people High prices on swapping out their good, but low battery when they could either charge it elsewhere or go to a different shop and swap it for a fair market price.

huh?

[Connie_Lingus]

..I went 145 on I95 for about 10 minutes just south of Jacksonville Fl in a 1993 Toyota Maxima years ago...this is news?

Re:huh?

[h4rr4r]

Where did you get this magic electric Toyota Maxima?

Where is there a section of I95 without a speed limit? Or did you break the law?

Re:huh?

[Antipater]

I'm not a car enthusiast, so I may be misinformed. But 60 to 100 in only five seconds is very impressive, is it not?

Re:huh?

[gstoddart]

..I went 145 on I95 for about 10 minutes just south of Jacksonville Fl in a 1993 Toyota Maxima years ago...this is news?

Considering the Maxima was made by Nissan and not Toyota, absolutely.

Otherwise, not so much. ;-)

Re:huh?

[paiute]

I took the hill down into Wabuska in a 1973 Ford Courier at over 100 mph. Stock. Beat that.

Re:huh?

[deadweight]

Yeah, I can't recall the last time I had a car that would not exceed 140 MPH, but none of them were electric. That does sound fun, but I am guessing range at that speed was about 50 miles. My old Porsche could do better than 30 MPG until about 90 and then fuel economy went off a cliff above that.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I pegged the needle a few times on my 4-cylinder, carbureted, stock 1985 Mustang. Was it 90? 100? I'll never know. I was young and stupid. Obviously not a supercar. Aerodynamic force varies as the cube, which is why most cars can get to 100, but few can get to 150 and 200 is spectacular. So. Pegging my needle. Not impressive. Really rather stupid... but I loved the growl it made when I took my foot *off* the accelerator and it wound down-- GGGGGGRrrrrrrrrr....

Re:huh?

[CastrTroy]

On top of that, unless it was a different car than the one here, it couldn't have gone 145 mph, because the top speed was only 137 mph. 145 mph is 232 km/h, and most speedometers don't even go that high, so I wonder how it was accurately measured, especially in 1993 when GPS units weren't common.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is NO way your 'maxima' could do 145. If, at best, the speedo said that, I sincerely doubt you ever were that fast. Considering that the car had either 160 or 190hp, you were not moving that fast at all.

1/10 on the troll though.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

this reminds me of the time i drove my Mercedes M6 on the I-5 bridge from Chicago to Detroit at almost 200mph

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

It's quick. But an Ariel Atom is 'very impressive'. 0-100, 5.4 seconds.

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

At about 150 it becomes apparent that most cars are basically airfoils.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on the direction, gravity can help a lot.

Re:huh?

[h4rr4r]

What cars do you buy?
Many common modern cars are limited below that. ~100mph is a pretty common cut off.

A Porsche is not really a normal car, they are designed for enthusiasts.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

The engine doesn't magically cut out at a car's rated "top speed." The real maximum is determined by the condition of the particular engine, and I've seen plenty of cars surpass their "top speed." As for telling your speed once you've pegged the speedometer in a manual car: watch the tachometer. Math is easy. (You can do this in a slushbox too but it's not super accurate.)

Re:huh?

[necro81]

Appropriate (what if) xkcd

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh. My 1964 VW Microbus can go from 0 to 60... on a good day.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

not really, no. In that amount of time, a lot of cars can do 0-100. New hybrid mclaren will do 0-60 in 2.8, but can't remember what it's 0-100 is, but it does a standing quarter mile in 10.2 seconds at 145mph

Re:huh?

[blackraven14250]

An Ariel Atom is also pretty much the absolute bare minimum you can call a "car".

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

150 is the most common cutoff for fast cars. Even cars that don't go that fast in stock form.

At about 150 aerodynamic forces like to lift the front wheels off the ground on cars that aren't specifically setup (spoilers and airdams) to go that fast.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is NO way your 'maxima' could do 145.

Well, you could drop it from a cargo plane...

Re:huh?

[blackraven14250]

I dunno, my Scion FR-S (Toyota 86/GT86/FT86 elsewhere) isn't limited at least until 110mph. In New Jersey, opportunities to go that fast are rare, let alone faster.

Re:huh?

[larry bagina]

Speedometers display a number higher than the actual speed. Kind of like when your measure your pecker in centimeters rather than inches. In fact, the Tesla autobahn package is nothing more than an adjustment to the speedometer fudge.

Re:huh?

[zlives]

+1 Funny, yes with a good tail wind (hurricane style)

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Psychopath]

It's quick. But an Ariel Atom is 'very impressive'. 0-100, 5.4 seconds.

The Atom is missing certain luxury elements in order to achieve it's admittedly extremely fast acceleration. Like windows. And a roof.

Re:huh?

[MiniMike]

most speedometers don't even go that high, so I wonder how it was accurately measured, especially in 1993 when GPS units weren't common.

He was being paced by a Honda Mustang (with the upgraded speedometer package) being driven by a unicorn.

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

Yep, it's perfect.

I was shocked to see some idiot had ruined one by putting batteries and an electric motor into one.

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

I've got a 2.0, fuel injected porsche motor that will fix that.

Re:huh?

[cayenne8]

Where is there a section of I95 without a speed limit? Or did you break the law?

Two magic words here:

Radar Detector

Re:huh?

[Guspaz]

Yes, because a 600 kilo 4.9 cubic metre F1-style sports car is the same as a 2,100 kilo 14.0 cubic metre luxury hatchback sedan.

Re:huh?

[Overzeetop]

I thought is was 131. My old Mazda MX-6 was 131 or 132 - it was in the electrical schematics. Found it once on I70 west of Baltimore. It took noticeably more time than the Tesla to achieve fuel cut-off speed than the Tesla.

Re:huh?

[GameboyRMH]

If by "ruined" you mean "turned into a monster of savage acceleration and broke a number of records with."

Sure it's no longer exactly a lightweight, but still lighter than the lightest of your average production cars and certainly not "ruined."

Re:huh?

[GameboyRMH]

not really, no. In that amount of time, a lot of cars can do 0-100. New hybrid mclaren will do 0-60 in 2.8, but can't remember what it's 0-100 is, but it does a standing quarter mile in 10.2 seconds at 145mph

So you're saying it's not impressive because it's not as quick as the top-tier, 7-digit-price hypercars?

Tough crowd...

Re:huh?

[lgw]

Florida uses airborne traffic enforcement heavily. When I used to drive down the length the peninsula, I had a nice mileage log with the location of every enforcement zone on the route noted. Handy, that.

Re:huh?

[GameboyRMH]

That doesn't match my experience from driving with an independently verified GPS speed...if anyone is selling a street-legal car with an inaccurate speedo, there are some standards bodies who would like to be notified...

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

It's ruined. It's slower, much slower around corners.

The Atom is traction limited. Adding weight, even if you add torque is not a gain.

Re:huh?

[GameboyRMH]

At about 150 aerodynamic forces like to lift the front wheels off the ground on cars that aren't specifically setup (spoilers and airdams) to go that fast.

Maybe on certain older designs, you rarely see that on 80s and later cars. On modern cars if there are any lift problems, it's always at the back.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

On top of that, unless it was a different car than the one here, it couldn't have gone 145 mph, because the top speed was only 137 mph. 145 mph is 232 km/h, and most speedometers don't even go that high, so I wonder how it was accurately measured, especially in 1993 when GPS units weren't common.

He only said he was going 145 MPH just south of Jacksonville, FL. He didn't say it was going forward, or was even on the road.

I'll grant that he might need a cliff the height of which might not exist around there, but nothing's saying a Toyotondassan Maxicivicsentra can't fall that fast.

Re:huh?

[minstrelmike]

...Kind of like when your measure your pecker in centimeters rather than inches...

Just one more reason to move to the metric system.

Re:huh?

[EvilSS]

The engine doesn't magically cut out at a car's rated "top speed."

Well that depends on the car, and more importantly the speed rating of the tires it's sold with. Many cars are electronically limited, mostly due to the manufacturer choosing not to sell them with Y or Z rated tires. Sure, you can remove the limiter with a programmer but still, out of the box many cars do indeed magically cut out at their rated "top speed"

Re:huh?

[niftydude]

Electric motors typically have way more torque than internal combustion engines.

If I recall correctly, Priuses (Prii?) have their electric motors limited below 30 kph because otherwise the fast acceleration will break the drive train.

Re:huh?

[GameboyRMH]

I don't think that any mod that makes a car's lap times worse necessarily "ruins" it. If there are people with similar tastes in the drag racing crowd they probably consider half the mods that make cars corner better to "ruin it." Not to mention the offroad crowd...

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for that Toyota didn't build the Maxima... Nissan did. What else is wrong or false about this statement?

Re:huh?

[TWiTfan]

In New Jersey, opportunities to go that fast are rare, let alone faster.

2Wycked does it all the time!!

Re:huh?

[h4rr4r]

Three words here:
Felony Reckless Driving.

If someone is caught doing those speeds on a public road marked for standard US speeds his car should be crushed, he should be billed for the service and his license revoked in perpetuity.

Re:huh?

[slew]

The engine doesn't magically cut out at a car's rated "top speed."

Actually, I used to have a Nissan Maxima and it does actually did have an electronic engine governor based on the speed of the car. The way I know this is a fact is that I accidentally experienced it on I-80 straight-away in the salt-flats just outside of salt lake city*** Since the road was straight, I wanted to see how fast I could go, but apparently, not faster then the governor.
Of course you could always remove this hardware...

** I'm sure the statute of limitations expired on this transgression as it was many, many moons ago

Re:huh?

[tinkerton]

All speedometers are inaccurate, they all show a higher value than the actual speed. But there actually are cars where you can tweak the speedo to take in account different wheel sizes and maybe it's possible to get a measurement that way that is too low..

Re:huh?

[nschubach]

e-bay honda mustang

Re:huh?

[nschubach]

My 2004 RX8 was 145-148 'ish. The 2008 MX5 was something like 140. I'm sure it depends on the car. I haven't had the location or space to see what my Audi S4 will do, but at 135 or so the slightest rise in the track becomes a bit scary... but I consider it more of a "luxury" than a "sports" car.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Electronic limiting makes the max speed of Honda Accord Coupe V6 stock 271HP = 135 MPH. There are youtube videos demonstrating this.

Re:huh?

[coyote_oww]

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ford_mustang_gt_420_hp-vs-tesla_model_s_performance_model.html

Not quite as fast as a ~$30,000 car even. And you might be able to find cheaper cars yet that could match it.

Re:huh?

[GameboyRMH]

It's not impressive for the price (no electric car will be, because it's like paying most of the fuel costs up-front), but still a very good time overall.

Re:huh?

[dr_dank]

Forget it, he's rolling.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the Atom isn't meant for drag racing or off roading. So yes in this case they ruined it.

Re:huh?

[XcepticZP]

At about 150 aerodynamic forces like to lift the front wheels off the ground on cars that aren't specifically setup (spoilers and airdams) to go that fast.

Does that mean the car will flip over, or something?

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

The Audi TT killed a word champion rally driver on the autobahn when it did a backflip. Don't recall his name.

Re:huh?

[HornWumpus]

That's the worst case. You push real bad first.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's 2.54 times better.

Re:huh?

[MightyYar]

It's not that they have "more" torque - it's that the torque is pretty much the same at any engine speed. IC engines - even "torquey" ones like diesels - have very little at low RPMs, then peak as you increase engine speed until reaching some point of diminishing returns as your intake limits you and torque drops off (but power continues to increase). It's the main reason that you need a transmission.

Re:huh?

[mjwx]

not really, no. In that amount of time, a lot of cars can do 0-100. New hybrid mclaren will do 0-60 in 2.8, but can't remember what it's 0-100 is, but it does a standing quarter mile in 10.2 seconds at 145mph

So you're saying it's not impressive because it's not as quick as the top-tier, 7-digit-price hypercars?

Tough crowd...

Not sure what the GP is saying but I'll say it's not impressive for it's price bracket. Around US$100,000 will get you a Tesla Model S... Or a Nissan GT-R or a Porsche 911 Carrera. $100K is entry level supercar money. It wont buy you a McLaren, but it will buy you a GT-R and those things are not slouches in any way shape or form.

The Model S isn't really a supercar. Cars half it's price will match it in performance, I'm not saying it's a bad car but I am saying it isn't a performance vehicle in it's price bracket. What separates it from a 911 or GT-R is that it isn't petrol powered.

Re:huh?

[Iskender]

>Priuses (Prii?)

'Priuses' is the only plural that makes sense. 'Prius' *is* a Latin word from the start - Wikipedia says that its correct plural form is 'priora', with caveats. Latin is a tricky language and any guess is likely to be unluckly. Stick to English plurals when in doubt, and see http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2139/what-is-the-plural-of-penis for an entertaining and insightful read on the topic.

While I'm at it: 'penii' is wrong, and 'virii' is completely, utterly wrong. Viruses and penises are great, see the article for the actual Latin plural of penis (there is no such thing for 'virus').

Re:huh?

[riverat1]

Coming down from Mt. Bachelor in a 1973 Volkswagen Westfalia Camper Van I hit over 80 mph. Got the speeding ticket to prove it.

Re:huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

"cars are basically airfoils."

Zora Arkus-Duntov (designer of the 1963 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray) said of his creation that it was "a very bad airplane", because it had a tendency to lift at speed.

First!

[Anonymous Coward]

First!

Impressive.

[jcochran]

Impressive. But stupid. Yes, the autobahn has unlimited speed, but they also require that the vehicle be in serviceable condition. Given the warning indicator for the tire pressure system, I kinda wonder if the tires were properly inflated and in good condition. But at least the test wasn't for long.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

But people keep saying that electric cars don't need service.

Re:Impressive.

[gstoddart]

I kinda wonder if the tires were properly inflated and in good condition

Probably, they were.

When Top Gear took a Bugatti Veyron up to top speed, they said the tires would only last a few minutes, but the fuel would give out slightly before then.

My guess is driving that fast puts a lot of strain on the tires, and even if you started off with no warning lights, you'd end up with a couple.

Re:Impressive.

[HornWumpus]

Top speed on the Veyron was about 70mph faster then the Tesla. That's an entirely different league.

Re:Impressive.

[gstoddart]

Yes and no. I'm betting this was about the top of the engineered range for the Tesla and its tires -- which likely means they didn't really do a lot of engineering and testing around these speeds.

Going as fast as your tires are rated for has about the same net effect I should think -- they get very hot, start to wear out, and likely don't have the expected pressure any more.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

actually they ran at 260 MPH, or about 120MPH faster

Re:Impressive.

[Mirar]

Most likely they put on new wheels for this test drive, and didn't bother to recalibrate the tyre pressure sensor (or the new wheels didn't have sensors). I get that warning light every time I switch between summer and winter wheels...

Re:Impressive.

[fizzer06]

Tires have a speed rating. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35/

Re:Impressive.

[HornWumpus]

150mph tires are relatively common. They just cost more then regular tires. You'll use up a set on a track day, but not in one run.

I don't even want to think about what a 200mph+ DOT tire costs.

Re:Impressive.

[BitZtream]

132 MPH isn't THAT ridiculously fast, but it is certainly fast enough that you shouldn't be doing it on standard production tires, even the ones rated for high speed, because they aren't rated for that high speed for any length of time ... or even ... say hitting a reflector on the road.

However, if you're tire pressure warning lights are coming on at those speeds you should immediately remove your foot from the accelerator, put both hands securely on the wheel and COAST down to a slow speed before applying ANY brakes and stopping.

Pressure monitors activing at high speed either means the monitors are mounted incorrectly and centripetal force activated them (likely) or your tires are coming apart and your death is rapidly approaching as a tire disintegrating in a Tesla S at 130 MPH is likely going to require a good bit of driver skill if its a front in order to stay off the guardrail. Hell, at that speed a rear is going to be a bad day too.

They shouldn't lose pressure at all. Its a sign the tires are ballooning, and thats VERY VERY BAD.

Re:Impressive.

[hodet]

I was thinking more along the lines of stupid because you can see him holding his smartphone with one hand in the reflection. At least he was on the Autobahn.

Re:Impressive.

[jedidiah]

> the autobahn has unlimited speed,

The autobahn has unlimited speed in areas that are marked as such. However, much of it is marked at speeds similar to or slower than what you would expect on American highways.

Plus a lot of those "unlimited" zones don't stretch on for very long.

Speed limits change on the autobahn with an annoying frequency.

Re:Impressive.

[gstoddart]

I don't even want to think about what a 200mph+ DOT tire costs.

I figure if you can afford the 200+ mph car, you don't give a shit about the cost of tires.

That, or you've spent so much on the car you can't afford to operate it -- which makes you a complete moron. (Not 'you' in the specific, of course, the hypothetical supercar owner who can't afford tires)

Re:Impressive.

[timeOday]

Wikipedia's entry on the Veyron: " It uses special Michelin PAX run-flat tyres, designed specifically to accommodate the Veyron's top speed, and cost US$25,000 per set. The tyres can be mounted on the rims only in France, a service which costs US$70,000." Ouch.

Besides enormous inertia stressing the tires, a car is propelled ONLY through its tires. When a Veyron hits top speed, it is dumping its entire 1000 HP output into stressing those poor tires. Even though moving at a constant rate, your are stressing the tires as much as when accelerating as fast as possible, except for minutes on end.

Re:Impressive.

[jittles]

I kinda wonder if the tires were properly inflated and in good condition

Probably, they were.

When Top Gear took a Bugatti Veyron up to top speed, they said the tires would only last a few minutes, but the fuel would give out slightly before then.

My guess is driving that fast puts a lot of strain on the tires, and even if you started off with no warning lights, you'd end up with a couple.

Depending on the rating of the tires, he is likely not even stressing them that badly. I do not know what the Tesla Model S comes with, but I had a car that came stock with Z rated tires. That makes them rated for speeds up to 186MPH. Indeed the tires on my motorcycle are rated to speeds in excess of 186MPH. Now, they will not last that long if they start out under-inflated, as that will cause them to overheat. However, the tire pressure sensor light should not activate due to high speeds. The sensor most likely either failed (lost communication with the controller), or the tire was not properly inflated.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Intending visitors to Germany should note that although much of the autobahn system still has no posted limit,two important points apply:
1/ They can still book you for dangerous driving, which includes going too fast for the conditions.
2/ Where there are posted limits, they will be enforced.Some areas have digital signs and the limits are changed depending on conditions.
So while it might sound like open slather, in fact German drivers are very well trained and quite law abiding. It is quite easy for a foreigner to get into trouble, a guy I worked with managed to get a speeding ticket on the autobahn while there on a short business trip. I spent two years there, the only one I got was through driving at German speeds while over the border in the Netherlands.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

And then there's road works every 20 kilometers, where the Autobahn is restricted to a single 60km/h lane.

And traffic jams constantly, because everyone who can drive more than 100 is clogging up the left lane.

Re:Impressive.

[gstoddart]

"The tyres can be mounted on the rims only in France, a service which costs US$70,000." Ouch.

And the Veyron costs, what, over $1 million US dollars or something like that?

If you can afford to buy the world's fastest car for that much money, I'm sure replacing the tires is just chump change.

Let's face it, this isn't the car you're taking the kids to school with or doing your shopping, so you've probably got a dozen other cars you can use.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

(Not 'you' in the specific, of course, the hypothetical supercar owner who can't afford tires)

One can use the pronoun "one" to avoid these parenthetical statements.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC, Top Gear ran the Veyron up to 406KPH (about 253MPH), so 120MPH faster than the Tesla.

Re:Impressive.

[Above]

Tire Rack to the Rescue: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35

"V" speed rated tires, rated to 149 MPH, are common on just about any "performance" car, like say a Mustang.

"W" (168 MPH) and "Y" (186 MPH) are in fact relatively common, and stocked in most performance sizes at your local warehouse.

The "Z" rating simply means "somewhere above that", and "go read the manual".

For instance the stock tires on a Z06 Corvette are: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1+Supercar+G%3A+2+RunOnFlat&leftTire=735YR8F1G2LROF&rightTire=735YR8F1G2RROF&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

$385 each, rated to 186+.

Now, if you want to push the boundaries of DOT legal, here are some auto-cross tires. They are in fact DOT legal, but not recommended for use on the street: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+RA1&partnum=735ZR8RA1HC4/32&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

$265 each, Z rated. Once heat cycled they should easily be good into the low 200MPH range.

The insane Veyron tires become necessary somewhere north of 225MPH or so. Like with many things the forces get exponentially stronger with speed, and thus the cost gets exponentially higher.

Re:Impressive.

[LateArthurDent]

Impressive. But stupid. Yes, the autobahn has unlimited speed, but they also require that the vehicle be in serviceable condition. Given the warning indicator for the tire pressure system, I kinda wonder if the tires were properly inflated and in good condition. But at least the test wasn't for long.

I own a Model S. There's some type of issue they've been having the cause the computer to lose the wireless signal from the pressure sensor under certain conditions, at which point that error will pop up. When I called Tesla service after it first showed up, they told me that they had some issues with the roadsters regarding electromagnetic noise from the motors interfering with the wireless from the pressure sensor, and that they thought they had the problem solved for the Model S, but that reports like mine were coming in, and they realized they hadn't. They asked me if I was on the highway when it popped up, which I was, and confirmed it was probably triggered by higher speeds and accelerations. They were looking into a fix.

The warning for improperly inflated tires is different, and tells you to check tire pressure, not call Tesla service. Considering this guy was maxing out his acceleration and speed, I suspect he ran into the bug. His vehicle was probably in good serviceable condition, and tires were probably properly inflated. The computer just couldn't read the pressure value and threw out the warning.

Re:Impressive.

[timeOday]

$1.6M for the Veyron. More like $2.5M for the Super Sport. $70K for tires on a $2M car is proportional to $700 for tires on a $20K car which seems disproportionate, although not wildly so. It would be easy to spend $700 on tires for a $20K pickup truck.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Model S comes from the factory wearing Goodyear Eagle RS-A2 tires (245/45R19). According to Tire Rack, these are V-Rated up to 149MPH.

The ratings mean the tire is designed and tested for sustained travel at up to the rated speed.

Re:Impressive.

[imsabbel]

Wrong. Per default, Autobahn has not speed limits.

Unless indicated otherwise, if you enter the autobahn, NO LIMIT.

Yes, there are speed limits quite commonly, but if you discount Stadtautobahn stuff and the Ruhrpott, 2/3rds of it are unlimited. Case in point: You can drive Stuttgart/Berlin and have all but 50km or so of the distance unlimited.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can certainly do it on production tires, every day on the autobahn people are driving that fast on production tires. I drove across Germany all day long at these speeds, it's well within tolerances for a Z-rated tire in good condition.

Re:Impressive.

[cplusplus]

132 MPH isn't THAT ridiculously fast, but it is certainly fast enough that you shouldn't be doing it on standard production tires, even the ones rated for high speed, because they aren't rated for that high speed for any length of time ...

Any high speed tire (V or higher) with an "A" temperature rating should be safe for driving over 100mph (although for sustained track use you'd probably want a higher speed rating, and also need to pay attention to traction and treadwear ratings). Tesla has V rated OEM tires (rated up to 149mph), and this guy was doing 130mph for a short period of time, which was certainly safe as far as the tires are concerned. I wouldn't race along at that speed on those tires for a long period of time, though.

Re:Impressive.

[wolrahnaes]

I figure if you can afford the 200+ mph car, you don't give a shit about the cost of tires.

Just for the record, 200 MPH is not the unobtanium supercar-only barrier it once was. A base model last-generation Corvette is the standard set of bolt-ons (intake, headers, exhaust) away from 200 MPH. A current model Mustang GT500 will do it stock. No joke, a $55,000 Mustang today is fully capable of reaching speeds only the greatest Ferraris and Lamborghinis of the day could touch just a decade or two ago.

I can imagine plenty of GT500 owners who still certainly care about the cost of tires, and probably quite a few who are hurting over that as-is given the inevitable appetite for rear tires I can only imagine a nearly 700 horsepower Mustang would have.

Re:Impressive.

[TomGreenhaw]

Our Model S had an intermittent Tire Pressure Sensor issue. Tesla's mobile service came to our house and replaced an antenna used for the system and we have not had that issue since. This car probably had the same minor issue and the tire pressure was probably OK. Its the only issue we've had with the car after 8 months BTW.

Re:Impressive.

[TomGreenhaw]

Just looked at our Tesla's tires. They are P245/45R19 98V tires which according to Tire Rack are rated to 149MPH

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

The autobahn has only unlimited speed if it is safe to drive that speed.
Wikipedia has it right for once: "... being involved in an accident driving at higher speeds can lead to the driver being deemed at least partially responsible due to "increased operating danger" (Erhöhte Betriebsgefahr)." This goes not only being involved in- but also being the cause of an accident due to your super high speed.
Same goes for not having correct tires (also for snow).
The systems relies more on your personal responsibility and only works as long as the people show they can handle that.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

37 seconds until the batteries were depleted.

Re:Impressive.

[Dahamma]

Yes and no. I'm betting this was about the top of the engineered range for the Tesla and its tires

Nope. The Tesla S comes with 21" Continental Extreme Contact DW's, which are Y rated (ie. to 188mph). The performance package actually comes with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's... the same Z rated tires standard on the Porsche 911. Those can easily handle 190mph+

If there was a TPMS warning for driving at 130mph for a couple minutes, there was clearly either something wrong with the tire (over/under inflated?) or the monitor...

Re:Impressive.

[Dahamma]

132 MPH isn't THAT ridiculously fast, but it is certainly fast enough that you shouldn't be doing it on standard production tires, even the ones rated for high speed, because they aren't rated for that high speed for any length of time ... or even ... say hitting a reflector on the road.

Depends what you mean by "standard production tires". Production tires like Michelin PS2's/PSS's are most definitely rated for over 132mph for decent lengths of time. They are stock on 911's and Ferrari's that people use on the track all the time.

I agree that there is no good reason the TPMS would be going off at that speed, though. He may have had them over/under inflated for some reason (or carelessness). The stock tires on a Tesla S are Y (186mph) rated Continentals, which would have no problem driving 130mph for a long time.

Re:Impressive.

[Dahamma]

I don't even want to think about what a 200mph+ DOT tire costs.

Especially since the DOT doesn't even rate them ;) They rate up to Y (186mph) but manufacturers tend to use "ZR" (which is unofficial) for tires that can go beyond that. Though the Veyron's tires aren't rated at all since there is no point, they are custom made for that one car and cost $40k for a new set (and not only that - they recommend replacement of the tires every 2500 miles and of the WHEELS every 10,000 miles!)

As far as the cost of regular tires, I guess it depends on what you mean by "regular". I just put new Michelin PSS's on a 997 C2S and they were cheaper than the "regular" PS2's I had before. $1200 to replace all 4 from tire rack, that's actually pretty cheap for ZR tires of that quality...

Re:Impressive.

[SomeoneFromBelgium]

132 MPH isn't THAT ridiculously fast, but it is certainly fast enough that you shouldn't be doing it on standard production tires, even the ones rated for high speed, because they aren't rated for that high speed for any length of time ... or even ... say hitting a reflector on the road.

Well, you clearly haven't spend any time on the autobahn. If you would have you would see why most german car manufacturers limit their cars to 250km/h (about 155 mph!). In Germany you will regularly find big BMW, Mercedes of even VW Golfs at very high speed (basically top speed) as much and as long as possible. So, I sure hope the guy who maxed the Tesla was looking in his rear mirror because Porche does not follow this 250 km/h limit! I have personally been on the autobahn at 100 mph when a fast vehicle was approaching from behind at an alarming speed. Just after I found a hole between two trucks to make room was I almost blasted away by the air pressure of the big Mercedes litterally streaking by.

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

truest comment so far. My wife and I drive the Autobahn almost daily. only 2 or 3 times in the last few years have we gotten to go "balls out" for an extended period of time. Nothing fancy, just a BMW sportwagon and it was early AM so nobody was there. We held 240 km/h for about 10 mins, did this once or twice and we were already home. I must say that I was a little nervous, but the wife was just giggling the whole time as she drove. Crazy Germans ;)

Re:Impressive.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come on. I've been doing 180-200km/h on my frequent trips across Bavaria (from Czech Republic to Switzerland), taking 3-4hours non-stop. My production H-rated tires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code#Speed_rating) must have turned to plasma by what you say. Are you from US or somewhere that these speeds are beyond your imagination? I feel more safe doing 180 on Germany than "65" on 101 :)

Re:Impressive.

[nobodie]

I saw that in China, somebody in the neighborhood had bought a Ferrari and would put a few gallons in it on Saturday and zoom around the neighborhood at high speed for a few minutes before parking it again for the rest of the week.

That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

416 horse power and it can only do 132 mph is nothing to brag about.

My car can do 140 mph with only 200 horse power.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

My shittastic 80-HP diesel Mercedes (0-60 in 14 seconds, W00T!) can go 120. It's as much a matter of gear ratios as anything else.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[cvtan]

Have to agree. My old M5 with 311hp could do 155mph and was artificially limited to that speed. I wonder if the Tesla drive circuitry cannot keep up the 400+hp output without having "issues".

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[necro81]

Horsepower doesn't mean anything - it's just a number. An M-1 Abrams tank has about 1500 horsepower - think it can go faster than a modest automobile? Power to weight ratio is far more revealing, and a much better figure of merit.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[bmajik]

Yep.

On Autobahn I did 220kph in a 320d 6 speed wagon, and 240kph in an Astra 1.6 gasoline..

Given Tesla's aerodynamics, and 416 hp stated power, I would expect a Vmax easily of 300 kph. I am surprised about a 132mph limit. I am guessing this is set in firmware to correspond to tire limits (iirc, 130mph is a US tire speed rating)

Fantastic choice on the E34 m5, btw. I have an E28 M5 myself..

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[bill_mcgonigle]

My car can do 140 mph with only 200 horse power.

You ostensibly have a sports car (a pretty one at that) but the Model S is a sedan and it will still spank your '86 in the 0-60 (3.9s vs 6.0s) and 1/4 mile (12.4s vs 14.7s). It all depends what the machine is optimized for.

Don't race a Model S for pink slips.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[jbeaupre]

Try doing it in first gear.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[BitZtream]

Electric motors develop their torque peak at dead stop, as RPM increases, torque falls off.

While your Porsche may develop 400hp at 7000 RPM, The Tesla develops 400HP at 0 RPM, and works down from there.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[mobby_6kl]

Could be a gearing issue, or rather the lack of gearing to be more specific. It seems to get up to the top speed reasonably quickly, but if the motor hits its speed limiter, well, that's it, because you can't upshift even if the motor is still making sufficient power to overcome wind/rolling resistance.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[BitZtream]

I'll be happy to race the model in my slow little Pontiac ... I just won't do it for sprints, I'll do it for distance, and I'll whip its ass reliably everyone when you start talking 200 mile range, which I can get without breaking even thinking about it. Easily 300 if I make sure the tank is full first.

So great, you can spank me to the end of the block in your Tesla, but I can actually finish the lap without needing a new battery ;)

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[zlives]

i will race it any day... for 400 miles

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[GameboyRMH]

You need 200hp to hit 140!? Mine can do it with 130hp, once you disable the speed limiter ;-)

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bragging you drive a purse sports car. It's what, 6.x seconds to 62? Most US-market family saloons are faster than that today.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

You need 200hp to hit 140!? Mine can do it with 130hp, once you disable the speed limiter ;-)

Actually that's just the quoted top speed. Actual top speed is faster.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[EvilSS]

416 horse power and it can only do 132 mph is nothing to brag about.

My car can do 140 mph....eventually

FTFY

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[GameboyRMH]

Same here, likely, but I don't want my mouth to write checks that the car can't cash ;-)

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not through a corner they aren't.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Viol8]

"While your Porsche may develop 400hp at 7000 RPM, The Tesla develops 400HP at 0 RPM, and works down from there."

Err , no. At 0 rpm an electric motor develops 0 hp. Torque and hp are not the same thing. Hp (or kw if you prefer) is a function of torque (force) multiplied by rpm (speed) hence no rpm = no horsepower. Basic physics.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[jkflying]

How fast can your M5 go in 1st gear though?

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Em Adespoton]

416 horse power and it can only do 132 mph is nothing to brag about.

My car can do 140 mph....eventually

FTFY

Oh, I thought you said cat... considering they have a terminal velocity of 60mph, that would be impressive....

(note: the cheetah's land speed is also around 60mph -- getting a cat going faster for any length of time would be difficult)

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, you want a sedan that does 140 mph?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Crown_Victoria_Police_Interceptor

Governed to 140 mph so the driveshaft doesn't explode (it's upgraded to aluminum, so it can go over 150 mph if you delete the governing in the ECU and change the gears from street to highway). As low as $19,000 if you bought a base model (which would do that speed) in bulk. And yes, Ford would sell citizens those cars, there was just no interest so you would have to find a dealer that was doing a bulk purchase for a police department and ask them to add one in for you (these deals were in the forums all the time). And the article makes it look like all 06 and above were given 3.55 axles, which is wrong. 3.55 was an OPTION, and very few departments went for it.

No longer in production since 2011, unfortunately, so now you have no choice but to buy a used one. Used interceptors typically sell for $500 for a very used beat up one, up to about $10,000 for one in incredible condition.

Don't expect it to get up to speed like a race car, though. It's a boring RWD small block V8 sedan. That means it's nice to drive for everyday use, but at 140 mph you can guarantee you'll be putting finger indents into the wheel from the death grip required to keep it in line. Chances are unless you sprung for Z-rated tires instead of the S-rated tires most cabbies (that's who usually buys them) put on you'll only get about 8 seconds at 140 mph before you have a blowout.

As an owner of this exact vehicle, I'll race a Model S for pink slips anyday, so long as it's for top speed AND the track is straight/long enough and time to get to speed doesn't matter. Mostly because I'd rather be driving the Tesla as my vehicle is sloooooooow. :P

Trust me, don't suggest that because it's a police car it's special. The driveshaft (buttloads of them for next to nothing at junkyards, just pull one), slightly different ECU programming (free if you know someone at a dealership), and slightly improved intake/exhaust (almost free at a junkyard, completely free if you want to use a sawzall) are the only differences that bring the top speed from 120 mph (civilian) to 140 mph (police)--in fact, you'll go faster since you don't have all the police trash (lights/laptop/guns/battery) weighing the vehicle down. There is no magic engine/transmission/etc put into them.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[mjwx]

My car can do 140 mph with only 200 horse power.

You ostensibly have a sports car (a pretty one at that) but the Model S is a sedan and it will still spank your '86 in the 0-60 (3.9s vs 6.0s) and 1/4 mile (12.4s vs 14.7s). It all depends what the machine is optimized for.

Don't race a Model S for pink slips.

Assuming you're talking about the Toyobaru twins.

Whilst incredibly fun to drive, they aren't meant for racing competitively. Other naturally aspirated I4's will beat them off the line and around corners... Of course not for the 86's price (the brilliant part of the 86 is the amount of car you get for the price).

With being challenged to a race, I have one condition, I'll race you between any two points of your choosing, but I'll pick the route back. I'm confident I can outrun a Model S in my old Honda Integra under those conditions.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, even a Pontiac Grand Am can go that fast. May not get up to that speed as quickly as other cars, but it does get there. Some of the more mundane everyday cars are rarely driven hard, so they tend to be underrated. (Also they can piss off people with supposedly "sportier" cars that have a lower set speed limiter, which is funny when it starts catching up and they can't do anything about it.)

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[Anonymous Coward]

My sedan has 310 HP and can hit 141 MPH as well. The Tesla S can accelerate to 60 MPH 1 second faster than me but it's definitely lacking in top end.

Re:That's pretty crappy.

[TomGreenhaw]

0 to 100MPH in 5 seconds is not crappy. The Tesla has no transmission, and since nobody really needs to go faster that 132MPH for a street legal car the top end speed IMHO is pretty meaningless.

gearing

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to have a 2003 Honda S2000 with 240 HP from a 2.0L. Its final drive ratio was 4.625 and it could do 155mph.

The Tesla's final drive ratio[or equivalent] must be less with all that extra power.

Re:gearing

[compro01]

The Model S has a fixed 9.73:1 ratio.

Infamous?

[drachenfyre]

Infamous autobahn? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Re:Infamous?

[oodaloop]

It means it's more than famous. It's so famous, it's IN-famous!

Re:Infamous?

[CastrTroy]

I used to work with a guy who would only use "infamous". I don't think he said famous, even once. He almost always used it the wrong way. And he used the word a lot, like at least weekly. It really grated at my nerves.

Re:Infamous?

[EkriirkE]

Being urged and built by Hitler... Paving over known roman sites/ruins before full excavation.

Re:Infamous?

[Anonymous Coward]

haha, yeah, just like "notoriety", which I admit I used incorrectly yesterday, but what is the opposite version? "fame" ? It just doesn't sound right. Or "positive publicity"? It was too wordy. I just couldn't find the word. Anyone???

Re:Infamous?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ob-Kenneth Williams

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it infamy.

Re:Infamous?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually building started before Hitler. Konrad Adenauer build the first one while he was still mayor of colgne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_autobahns#History

Re:Infamous?

[Anonymous Coward]

Like people who say "epicenter" when they mean "center"? That one really grates on my nerves!

Re:Infamous?

[Anonymous Coward]

The British are allowed to say "inflammable" instead of "flammable", then the Americans are allowed to say "infamous" instead of "famous." Fair is fair.

Re:Infamous?

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see what the problem is

Re:Infamous?

[RespekMyAthorati]

I think they mean infamous for things like this:
Autobahn Crash

Re:Infamous?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it works the same as "inflammable".

typo

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently the length of the Autobahn spans the entire planet.....

"Germany's autobahn network has a total length of about 12,845 kilometres (7,982 mi) in 2012,[3] which ranks as the fourth longest highway system in the world behind the National Trunk Highway System (NTHS) of China (97,355 km), the Interstate Highway System of the United States (75,932 km) and the highways in Spain (16,204 km)."

Re:typo

[Saethan]

Quick, go fix Wikipedia.

Re:typo

[immaterial]

It is true: the Autobahn is a single, linear tunnel straight through the core of the earth. Great way to get to Fiji.

Re:typo

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you not see the comparison systems and realize it was summing up every road and not referring to a single road?

it can also

[Anonymous Coward]

cook a nice flambe

Save some cash.

[Anonymous Coward]

For less than the price of insurance for that thing you can get a 1000cc sport bike that will do 180+MPH and get 40mpg (but not at 180mph). Go used and you might get an ugly one for as low as $2500 or so. Added benefit of less damage to whatever it is that you hit though you'll be dead so you won't care.

Is that the top speed?

[Anonymous Coward]

The acceleration is impressive, but if 132mph is the top speed, I'm underwhelmed. I've gone faster in a MINI Cooper S. It wasn't legal but it was a hell of a lot of fun.

Re:Is that the top speed?

[Mirar]

Probably he just ran into a truck overtaking a truck, or roadworks.
You get those every few kilometers on the Autobahn.

And someday

[Lucas123]

I may be able to afford one.

Re:And someday

[neo-mkrey]

Sorry, no, you won't, and neither will I.

Re:And someday

[H0p313ss]

I may be able to afford one.

I suspect that by the time I can afford one there will be a significant number of other options that I will find more attractive and affordable.

Hmm, I wonder why sales in Germany are low?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Tesla Model S has been on sale in Germany for two months, though the car hasn’t fared as well as it has in other markets.

This is because Germans don't voluntarily want to enter a small enclosed space, wondering if they're going to end up getting cremated.

Montana

[Eyezen]

"Here in the U.S., Tesla Model S owners are likely to rarely reach the carâ(TM)s 130 mph top speed..." Does Montana still have no speed limit during the day?

Re:Montana

[Anonymous Coward]

No, pedantic assholes ruined that, but when it was around, i did 135 in a nissan nx2000 up around the canada border just east of the park, we were going to have a weekend in lethbridge (i was maybe 19 or 20 at the time, drinking age there is 18 and its only a couple hours drive) and just decided to see what i could do, i hit 135 for about 2 seconds (could have gone higher, how high i dont know but there was plenty of tach left and apparently no governor) but i wussed out, plus my buddies girlfriend was riding with me and she was already looking a bit concerned, cool story, i know, but no we have speed limits now, some are ridiculously slow, others are ridiculously fast, its really weird, 4 lane highway can be 60 mph, country back road can be 70 mph, then revered in some other areas.

Re:Montana

[DaveAtFraud]

...
Does Montana still have no speed limit during the day?

Sadly, no. Just dug up the detail for part of a reply to the /. article about the guy who drove across the U.S. in record time but very illegally. After the 55 mph national speed limit was abolished, Montana reverted to their pre-1973 limit of "reasonable and proper''. This left it to the police to decide what was ''reasonable and proper'' which someone decided was now too vague so they went with the standard 75 mph on interstates and a slightly above standard 70 mph on state roads.

Cheers,
Dave

Re:Montana

[slew]

"Here in the U.S., Tesla Model S owners are likely to rarely reach the carâ(TM)s 130 mph top speed..."
Does Montana still have no speed limit during the day?

Currently, Montana has normal speed-limits (75mph) and Tesla doesn't have a supercharger station anywhere near Montana...
The "no-speed-limit, but reasonable and prudent" thing only lasted for a few years in the '90s, but was repealed as soon as the Feds threated highway funds.

It can drive?

[chelunick]

Oh my, a very hyped up and expensive car .. can go ... a lot slower than other, cheaper cars. Definately newsworthy ... Dang fanboys http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/11/05/173223/tesla-model-s-can-hit-at-least-132-mph-on-the-autobahn#

Re:It can drive?

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Oh my, a very hyped up and expensive car .. can go ... a lot slower than other, cheaper cars.
Definately newsworthy ...
Dang fanboys http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/11/05/173223/tesla-model-s-can-hit-at-least-132-mph-on-the-autobahn#

Pardon me, but what cheaper sedan goes from 60-100MPH in less than five seconds?

Re:It can drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my, a very hyped up and expensive car .. can go ... a lot slower than other, cheaper cars.
Definately newsworthy ...

"definately" ... nice...

But while poking fun at your spelling skills is amusing, you missed the point entirely. "A very hyped up and expensive entirely ELECTRIC full sized car ... can go... to a top speed that is comparable or better than most normal LIQUID CARBON powered full sized cars." Thats definitely interesting news for nerds. 210 km/h is highly respectable as a top speed.

Re:It can drive?

[NoImNotNineVolt]

Awesome link. Mod parent up.

Re:It can drive?

[chelunick]

ooooooh my deepest apologies for my ignorance. How dare I misspell something .At least I don't use auto-correct on the phone. And no, 210kmh is not respectable in this day and age, not for a car that costs as much as that thing. Unless you've been living in your mom's basement for the past 20 yrs and you think a Fiero really is “a poor man's Ferrari”. As for your "ELECTRIC" point, there are a number of EV's that went faster than that years ago. This is just another fluff piece meant to increase the hype and sales of a rather ridiculous product.

Re:It can drive?

[chelunick]

I don't know the exact number but my, now defunct, 2003 SAAB 95 Aero could do that. It was geared especially for mid-range acceleration. I am sure there are plenty sub $60K sedans that can match that feat. And you don't have to look like a douche in them :)

Re:It can drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

BMW M3 for example. Costs 10k less than a Tesla.
Audi S3 Sportback. Costs 20k less than a Tesla.
Audi S4 3.0. 15k less than a Tesla

Just as a starter. There are more. But it's tiring.

Re:It can drive?

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Sorry, try again. None of the cars you listed are capable of what you claim. Here's a list to help you [http://www.torquestats.com/index.php?pid=mph60_100].

Re:It can drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my, a very hyped up and expensive car .. can go ... a lot slower than other, cheaper cars.
Definately newsworthy ...
Dang fanboys http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/11/05/173223/tesla-model-s-can-hit-at-least-132-mph-on-the-autobahn#

Pardon me, but what cheaper sedan goes from 60-100MPH in less than five seconds?

Are you kidding? Not very hard.. try an Audi S4 - $48k in the US to $82K for the Tesla - 0-60 in 4.9s There must be dozens of others.

Re: It can drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry. I thought you meant 0-60.

Re:It can drive?

[SwedishPenguin]

Why would you "look like a douche" by driving an electric car?

Re:It can drive?

[Anonymous Coward]

A Ford XR6 Turbo or a Holden SS Commodore would easily do that. They're not available in the US though.

132mph = 416hp? What?

[Anonymous Coward]

My POS 94 V6 mustang can hit 135mph with a basic tune and no speed limiter. That's around 140-160hp

So the Tesla Model S really only has ~160 HP?

Re:132mph = 416hp? What?

[ponraul]

HP (kW) is power. There are other factors which determine top speed. The 0-100 k/hr time of 5 seconds means it's probably more a limitation of the suspension and weight distribution than the gearbox or engine. Your POS 94 V6 mustang probably feels like it's going to explode at that speed if you go around a curve of more than a 1 degree.

Re:132mph = 416hp? What?

[Osgeld]

so handling at high speed is why this 416 monster can get passed by a upper end 4 cylinder in the long run?

I had a couple old eclipses that could get around this speed and feel like you were traveling at 45mph, both were less than 200hp, it sounds more like Tesla has some serious gear ratio problems, or they are bullshitting the HP number with ...I dunno inrush power consumption

Re:132mph = 416hp? What?

[rubycodez]

eh, the speed of a vehicle at a given horsepower is going to depend on drive train gear ratios, air resistance, hydraulic losses (if such in drivetrain and not lockup version) and friction losses to a first approximation.

Re:132mph = 416hp? What?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're forgetting that gasoline engines and electric motors have VERY different torque and horsepower curves. Gasoline engines have roughly parabolic torque curves that peak in the midband and still deliver reasonable torque at high RPM. I don't know about Tesla's motors, but electric motor torque curves generally peak at zero RPM and have a linear slope to zero at their maximum RPM. Horsepower is a linear function of torque times RPM, so this means that electric motors have great low end torque, but they have truly awful high-end horsepower.

Top speed is a function of where the engine horsepower curve crosses the aerodynamic drag's load curve in top gear. The drag curve increase as about RPM^3, and a properly geared gasoline engine's horsepower PEAKS somewhere around the crossover point. However, an electric motor's horsepower curve is falling at RPM^2, so the crossover point is invariably at a lower RPM than you'd like. And that lower RPM means a lower top speed for an electric car.

Acceleration is a function of torque, so the electric car can blow the doors off of a gasoline engine in the quarter mile and then lose badly on a 1 mile track because of the lower top speed.

How about safety for other traffic participants

[j.postema]

Driving at this speed means you don't respect safety of other drivers. The German law is idiot. I hear people talking about their recently ordered Tesla-gatget. How about safety for non-motorized traffic? I suppose at low speeds it will be difficult to hear those cars approaching. Why do car drivers seem to like very high acceleration numbers? Is the high acceleration feature safe for non-motorized traffic?

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[cayenne8]

Why do car drivers seem to like very high acceleration numbers?

If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer....

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, must be an American idiot. One who still believes that everyone should drive 55MPH on the interstate. I should know, I live in the US, and it sucks! The faster you drive, the last time you spend on the road, the safer it is!

And whats with all this 5-10 mpg at ~130MPH? I get the best mileage doing around 75mph and that with a 5 speed and 2.73:1 rear end. At 130mph, if it were legal here, I'd assume around 25 MPG. There is no magical force that suddenly saps your MPG after 55mph. The faster you go, the less time it takes to get there. You burn just as much fuel doing 120mph and spending only 30 min. getting to your destination as you would doing 60mph and spending 60 min. getting there. You might actually save a bit of gas (not to mention time) if the US wasn't so pig headed about going so damn slow.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[Anonymous Coward]

[citation needed] on just about every sentence you just typed.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[Anonymous Coward]

Non-motorized traffic is normally not allowed on highways.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no magical force that suddenly saps your MPG after 55mph.

No, but there is a physical force that gradually saps your MPG after 0mph. It's called "wind resistance".

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[Anonymous Coward]

Writing as German regularly driving on the Autobahn at speed.

>Driving at this speed means you don't respect safety of other drivers.

Couldn't be any more wrong.
The German driving licence testing and education is very thorough and strict. It's not like in the US where you drive round the block and you are done.

The technical inspections are taken very seriously. Unsafe cars, even by the slightest idea to be unsafe, are not allowed on the streets and the police will actively stop you in an unsafe car.

There are 7.2 road fatalities per 100,000 cars per year in Germany (one of the lowest globally). In the US it is 15. More than twice as much. Despite you insane low speed limits. Driving on the autobahn is in fact the safest way to drive in Germany. No crossings, no traffic lights, nothing to worry about.

AND : the huge difference is that you are ONLY allowed to overtake on the left lanes, while in the US it's pure chaos and lanes seem to be almost meaningless.
That makes everything pretty predictable. Even at 125+ mph. And 125mph isn't THAT fast on the autobahn. Sure some are creeping with ca. 60 mph (that's how fast the trucks are allowed to go) and that's fine. But no one feels unsafe. The only risk is when people are suddenly braking or switching lanes without indicating (which they really really shouldn't do)

>The German law is idiot

I guess you mean idiotic. But it's not. It's called freedom. Booyah.
And proper driving education ensures it is safe for everyone.

>How about safety for non-motorized traffic?

No non-motorised traffic allowed on the autobahn. In fact you are not even allowed on the autobahn when you car isn't capable of doing a MINIMUM speed of 38 mph. And you are not allowed to drive SLOWER than that except in the case of congestions. Not even road work will you slow down below that threshold.

>Why do car drivers seem to like very high acceleration numbers?
1. It's fun
2. It's security reserve to avoid obstacles and dangerous situations. Not kidding. It really is. Be able to get out of the way very quickly is a safety feature.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, I meant 50 mph not 60 for trucks. Typo.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[ponraul]

80 km/h. Think metric.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[Anonymous Coward]

I do. I am german. But this is /.
The home of the imperial unit zealots.
Proof : the headline.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[j.postema]

please don't post foolish anwers looser

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[HornWumpus]

Imperial unit zealots?

Non-sense! Vahnzin.

Furlongs/fortnight or GTF out.

Re:How about safety for other traffic participants

[cayenne8]

please don't post foolish anwers looser

Please learn how to spell LOSER......and the word answers..

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you just link to this very page, in your comment?!

Why? I mean, why would anyone need a link to the page that they're currently viewing?

Re:WTF?

[chelunick]

I was on the phone, probably touched somehting I wasn't suppoed to.

I'm impressed

[SternisheFan]

Since hybrids have been in existence, I'd read then that electric motors are far more efficient than combustion engines going from a dead stop up to about 40mph After 40+ mph then gas engines are 'better'. So with a fixed gear ratio, it makes sense to me that any speeds higher than 40mph or so has to drain the battery faster. Maybe later generation electric cars can be equipped with low/high gearing.

Still, for an all electric vehicle, 132mph (with no worries about blowing up your engine) is a damn impressive speed to me.

Re:I'm impressed

[Anonymous Coward]

apart from the fact that electrically driven cars can have mechanical transmissions just like combustion engine driven ones, you can also change the way you power you electric motor electronically (like in electronically commutated motors).
They will also operate well at far higher (and lower) revolutions (depending on design) than combustion engines, removing the need for gearboxes (which essentially are there to compensate for the limitation of the combustion engines).
The mass and volume of energy storage (and related charging/distribution) is the only limitation of electric cars. Gasoline is just too damn compact. The advances in combustion engine development are relatively slow compared to those in energy storage, so it seems just a matter of time.

132mph is not terribly impressive

[maroberts]

It's about the top speed of a slightly above average saloon car in Europe. For instance a Mondeo 2.0 Tdci is only 5mph slower at 127. On a German Autobahn it will be repeatedly flashed to get out of the way.

I'm amazed that 416hp keeps the speed down so much. Some years ago Lotus (in)famously customised the (GM) Carlton/Omega to output 377BHP with a top speed of about 175 mph. IIRC its about the same size and shape as a Tesla S.

Re:132mph is not terribly impressive

[Bearhouse]

"IIRC its about the same size and shape as a Tesla S"

Not really; plus of course the Lotus was/is also lighter and with worse passive safety.

But a far, far better car, in my opinion. (Tried one - have always loved straight sixes with their perfect primary and secondary balance).
At the time, eveyone focused on its power and top speed, taking for granted the usual Lotus magic on suspension and hence steering, braking and handling. I nearly bought the car I tested - it was £5K a few years ago. When I look at their proces now, I weep.

Wonder how much a Tesla will be worth in 20 years? Damn-all, I suspect.
(But then again, I'm clearly not one to listen to for car investments).

Re:132mph is not terribly impressive

[ledow]

I can reliably inform you that a Ford Mondeo 1.8 petrol, built in the late 90's, is more than capable of going 132mph on the Autobahn, without even being a boy-racer about it

I chickened out because it was such an old car and such a stupid speed to be doing in it, but in fact I hadn't noticed it creeping up that far as I was concentrating so much on the road ahead - which was perfectly flat, straight and empty for many miles at the time. If you were to take it to the "redline" on the revmeter, you could have gone more than 132 easily.

Re:132mph is not terribly impressive

[maroberts]

I'm a bit biased in favour of the Lotus modified GM car as I used to have a Lotus Esprit Turbo SE (Series 3). I had to change cars as the police seemed to love giving me speeding tickets for minor infractions that would pass unnoticed in any other car. [I have to admit the one for 122 mph was a fair cop though :-) ]

The extra weight and better passive safety though are surely a product of the fact its an electric car instead of a petrol one, gaining the extra weight of lots of lithium batteries against the flammability of a large fuel tank. (The Esprit had fuel caps on both sides into a central fuel tank - which was a fantastic feature IMO)

Re:132mph is not terribly impressive

[willy_me]

I assume there are constraints on continuous battery output for electric vehicles. Batteries will eventually overheat unless specifically designed otherwise. So while the Model S has 416hp available to it, it will only be accessible for a short period of time. Makes passing and accelerating very comfortable but does not necessarily translate to a higher top speed. No doubt this could change with firmware changes and cooling mods.

Re:132mph is not terribly impressive

[RichiH]

Came here to say this. It's not uncommon to see family-type cars go faster than this.

I probably go over that speed at least twice a day: during my daily commute.

Dumbass

[Animats]

This guy goes to 212 kph with the display showing "Service tire pressure system"?

Re:Dumbass

[SuperBanana]

Tire pressure MONITORING system.

If you owned a car with one, you'd know they are the bane of your existence. They're constantly failing.

Neither of us has any idea whether he checked tire pressure before he did the run. 130mph isn't really that super-duper in a modern car with tires rated for it...as noted, a decent number of people to it on the autobahn, or the Nurburgring, every day.

Re:Dumbass

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had 3 vehicles with TPMS over the last decade and not one has had a failure.

Either way, at 130+ mph, under/over-inflated tires or a loose lug nut would scare the hell out of me. I've driven at sustained speeds over 100 mph, but I won't do it unless I know the tires are T rated, properly inflated and the lugs are tight at a bare minimum. I can't even imagine a blow-out at these speeds. If the TPMS is malfunctioning, it could indicate some other sort of problem like a TPMS sensor broken off and bouncing around inside of your tire (though I can't imagine it would bounce much at those speeds).

IOW, the idiot-light in the dash should not be ignored especially if you're going to drive at these speeds regardless of your experience with TPMS.

Re:Dumbass

[rubycodez]

it is super duper, if you have a front tire failure.

Autobahn is...

[Anonymous Coward]

infamous = well-known bad
or
famous = well-known
?

it just doesn't have a lot of HP

[YesIAmAScript]

It's a big, heavy car and it really doesn't have that much HP.

Electric cars have a lot of torque down low so people think they are immensely powerful, but they really aren't. Not that it matters much most of the time.

The Tesla S will also begin to slow down due to overheat in just a few minutes truly hard driving. Drivers testing the car at the refuel event at Laguna Seca said the cars started to reduce power after only 2 full power laps on the track.

So ...

[IwantToKeepAnon]

He was infamous for his "infamous"?

Speed is not good

[tinkerton]

A 400+ hp car that is streamlined and only does 132 mph ,that is exceptionally slow. Cars with half that bhp can reach that speed. Must be due the lack of a suitable gearbox - as in, no gearbox at all?

Re:Speed is not good

[jonbryce]

Electric cars don't have gears, and there are few places outside of Germany where you can legitimately drive faster than 132mph.

Re:Speed is not good

[tinkerton]

I thought it was that electric cars don't need gearboxes but this limits their topspeed.
With some kind of gearbox the car could go much faster. But that's just my thinking.

Re:Speed is not good

[Anonymous Coward]

Who said it "only" did 132? That was the peak speed he hit before he had to lift off. He was still accelerating at about 2-3mph/s (stupid unit, I know), which indicates that there's still a good long way to go beyond 132.

Re:Speed is not good

[Neil Boekend]

You can almost never use that speed legally and if the gearbox is in your car you have to lug around the weight of it and you always have additional losses in that gearbox. That would lower the action radius, which is a great point in electric cars.

0-60 != 60-100

[CanHasDIY]

With 416 horsepower on tap and full torque available from a standstill thanks to the electric motor, the Model S went from 60 mph to 100 mph in less than five seconds.

Ok... what does the whole "100% torque from standstill" thing have to do with 60-100 time?

You do realize that 60 MPH is not a standstill, don't you, cartechboy? Lord I hope so...

P.S. I found a nice chart of the 60-100 times of a host of automobiles here for those that are interested in how the Tesla S stacks up.

Re:0-60 != 60-100

[H0p313ss]

With 416 horsepower on tap and full torque available from a standstill thanks to the electric motor, the Model S went from 60 mph to 100 mph in less than five seconds.

...

P.S. I found a nice chart of the 60-100 times of a host of automobiles here for those that are interested in how the Tesla S stacks up.

What I learned there is that the Tesla has better highway acceleration than a large number of sports cars, but won't be setting any records. So not at all bad for an electric production model.

Re:0-60 != 60-100

[swillden]

With 416 horsepower on tap and full torque available from a standstill thanks to the electric motor, the Model S went from 60 mph to 100 mph in less than five seconds.

Ok... what does the whole "100% torque from standstill" thing have to do with 60-100 time?

Right. He should have said "full torque available at any speed".

Re:0-60 != 60-100

[Anonymous Coward]

Torque decreases with rpm for an electric motor, so that statement wouldn't have been true.
Sure it's a matter of gearing if you're already in the last gear the faster you go, the less torque you have.

With 416 horsepower on tap and full torque available from a standstill thanks to the electric motor, the Model S went from 60 mph to 100 mph in less than five seconds.

Ok... what does the whole "100% torque from standstill" thing have to do with 60-100 time?

Right. He should have said "full torque available at any speed".

100,000 miles @ 140mph: 40mpg

[MDMurphy]

http://www.gizmag.com/go/4003/

From 2005. Mercedes E320 CDI, diesel sedans on a track.

Re:100,000 miles @ 140mph: 40mpg

[MightyYar]

Even given that they were running on energy-dense diesel, 40MPG is pretty darned impressive at those speeds. I have to wonder if they weren't drafting.

non street-legal compression

[mbkennel]

It probably makes much too much nitrogen oxide smog molecules to be legal.

Re:non street-legal compression

[HornWumpus]

High compression and boost implies high octane race fuel. Which is not street legal.

Re:non street-legal compression

[The Grim Reefer]

High compression does. High boost can be a little trickier.

Re:non street-legal compression

[rubycodez]

uh huh, gas stations around me sell 100+ octane stuff, sticker on pump says "off-road use only"....hah!

Re:non street-legal compression

[gmhowell]

High compression and boost implies high octane race fuel. Which is not street legal.

Where?

Re:non street-legal compression

[HornWumpus]

The United States. Race fuel is not taxed. It contains tetra-ethyl lead.

Re:non street-legal compression

[HornWumpus]

Boost is compression. Why do you think turbo cars have lower compression pistons?

For example: 15 lbs of boost (approx 1 atm) effectively turns 8:1 compression into 16:1.

Re:non street-legal compression

[Cramer]

And costs 3-4x as much as road taxed gas. So it's not wise to run that on the road anyway. (btw, you can tell who's running "race fuel" by the exhaust smell. I don't know how many cops would notice.)

Re:non street-legal compression

[gmhowell]

The United States. Race fuel is not taxed. It contains tetra-ethyl lead.

Depends on your definition of race fuel. And perhaps this is new. But the last time I went to MIR there were two gas stations within three miles that sold high octane (98 (R+M)/2) race fuel. Plenty of taxes.

I think that's HORRIBLY slow

[Anonymous Coward]

400HP and only 212km/h ? What went wrong with aerodynamic design, I ask?
We routinely drive faster with an average only 150HP petrol engine here, not to mention average sport bikes with 600ccm and 130PS go WAY faster (250km/h).

SERIOUSLY.

That's because it has a software governor.

[Valdrax]

416 horse power and it can only do 132 mph is nothing to brag about.

It's not a technical limitation. The Model S has a software governor that caps its top speed. Part of the "tuning" package Tesla plans to offer for German Model S customers is a raise on the cap to somewhere closer to the "gentlemen's agreement" of 155 MPH that most auto manufacturers limit their cars with.

There's also a hidden menu setting to turn off the governor. See the video at just before the 1:00 mark. I haven't read anything about people trying it, though.

Re:That's because it has a software governor.

[LateArthurDent]

416 horse power and it can only do 132 mph is nothing to brag about.

It's not a technical limitation. The Model S has a software governor that caps its top speed. Part of the "tuning" package Tesla plans to offer for German Model S customers is a raise on the cap to somewhere closer to the "gentlemen's agreement" of 155 MPH that most auto manufacturers limit their cars with.

There's also a hidden menu setting to turn off the governor. See the video at just before the 1:00 mark. I haven't read anything about people trying it, though.

That's because nobody knows the password to get into that hidden menu.

Torque wins races (not hp)... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

If MY word isn't "good enough", how about those of Mr. Carrol Shelby-> http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22Carrol+Shelby%22+and+%22torque+wins+races%22&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=%22carrol+shelby%22+and+%22torque+wins+races%22&sc=0-23&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=8e937d415e3949a29c6d4d108316d44e

APK

P.S.=> IF you have to ask who HE is? There's no point in my replying again... apk

Re:Torque wins races (not hp)... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot who needs a lesson in basic physics.

Work is what wins races, not torque.

212 is nothing. i did 213 in october 2012

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out my trip in a model s at: http://jhelberg.wordpress.com/2012/10/30/51-minutes-of-fun/

Darn. I need one now!

[hAckz0r]

They managed to edge out the Prius by a whole 1.2 mph!

http://www.auto123.com/en/news/toyota-prius-sets-land-speed-record-for-hybrid-vehicles?artid=33860&pg=3

I guess its time to trade in my Prius for a car costing twice as much, but can't go as far? But just think about how cool I'll be not getting there!

Actually, I do want one. Disregard all my snide cynicism above. I'm sure its one nice vehicle, but I had to point out the minor speed difference. I can certainly attest to how fast the Prius can go, just don't ask me how I know. ;)

Tesla didn't tell you

[amightywind]

They didn't tell you that the battery died one mile down the road. Don't buy an Obamacar!

I think Teslas are awesome, but...

[buttfuckinpimpnugget]

My 1986 325es BMW will easily do 145mph with it's 121hp 180ft/lb motor. And that's assuming that it even has that much power after all it's years of use and abuse. I've gone 153mph in my 1991 325ix which is supposed to have 168hp (not sure of the torque) but it's 4 wheel drive with a heavier drive train. If I had to hazzard an uneducated guess, bmw's were raced and because of homologation rules were geared for a higher top speed. I see no reason for Tesla to add gears that most of their customers will never use.

Go argue with Mr. Carrol Shelby... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck moron, you'll need it (more like a miracle). Then again, you KNOW you're wrong, & hence your pure ac post.

APK

P.S.=> Besides: You're an ac posting little pusscake too who unlike myself, has to COMPLETELY "hide" behind the ac moniker - that tells us ALL, all we need to know about the "trolling likes of you" (worm)... apk

What, only 132 mph? Okay, I'll take it.

[FridayBob]

In July of 2001 a friend of mine and I rented a Porsche Boxster with a tiptronic gearbox (which is slower than the manual version, but less easily damaged) and took it for a three-day spin on the German autobahn network. Fantastic! I remember getting stuck behind other cars at 170 km/h (106 mph), then shifting down to 4th gear to accelerate again after the car ahead of us got out of the way. The acceleration would only begin to slow above about 230 km/h (142 mph). Our top speed was 256 km/h (159 mph), achieved on a long downhill section on the way to Frankfurt from the south (probably with a tailwind as well). So, that's just to put things in perspective.

For a few years after that I dreamed of owning that car, with its mid-mounted engine that makes it sound like you're being tailgated by a truck, only with some additional sounds of whirring gears. It was like music to me. I was a more aggressive driver in those days, but that car had a calming effect on me; like I didn't have to prove myself to anyone.

Yet, I no longer dream of owning a car with an internal combustion engine. The next road vehicle I buy is going to be electric. Part of my change of heart on this subject has to do with the technical appeal. No more complicated internal combustion engines, none of the heat, the sound or the smell, no matter how glorious they once seemed to me. None of the oil and associated dirt either. Just the simplicity of a battery and a compact, yet powerful electric motor that is almost silent, yet gives surprising acceleration and speed.

Moreover, there is the environmental aspect. My petrol-head friends keep reminding me that the necessary electricity mostly comes from coal-fired power plants, making each mile traveled a bit dirtier than I would hope. True, but at least I would not be to blame for that, since I would be able to run it on 100% clean, renewable energy as soon as I had the choice.

Also appealing is the fact that I would never have to visit any more gasoline stations. All I'd have to do is plug it into a wall socket in the garage when I get home. Okay, it would be more of a drag if I didn't have a garage (not many folks around here do), but still. Luckily this country is so small that on a single charge I would be able to drive to work and back using almost any electric vehicle available on the market today.

Finally, there is the fact that I live in the Netherlands, which has higher gasoline prices than anywhere else in the world: over 60% of it is tax and the last time I paid $8.73 per gallon. Oh, how I despise being such a cash cow. If I could afford one I would certainly buy a Tesla Model S, but for now I look forward to receiving an even more frugal (and more agile) Lit C-1.

Re:What, only 132 mph? Okay, I'll take it.

[rubycodez]

of course, once a good number of people plug in instead of paying the petro tax, guess what the government will do then?

Re:What, only 132 mph? Okay, I'll take it.

[FridayBob]

of course, once a good number of people plug in instead of paying the petro tax, guess what the government will do then?

You're right, of course: the roads still have to be maintained and someone is going to have to foot the bill regardless. I understand and accept that. But, I would prefer an electric car anyway and not having to pay any fuel or road tax for a while just makes the idea even more appealing.

Re:What, only 132 mph? Okay, I'll take it.

[rubycodez]

where I live country, state and county take in way, way more taxes than the roads require

Re:What, only 132 mph? Okay, I'll take it.

[FridayBob]

where I live country, state and county take in way, way more taxes than the roads require

I believe that's true in the Netherlands as well, but at least they do maintain the roads around here. Living in a country with a functioning government does have its advantages.

Which reminds me: have you signed this petition yet?

Environmental + practicallity = what matters

[walterbyrd]

It goes fast enough, so what?

Is it practical? Is it more environmentally friendly than standard cars?

If not, then who cares?

Safely?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we agree that going 130 mph in a typical street legal car is, well, a higher risk than going 25, or 40. At some point as you increase speed the injury and fatality rates start to rise faster than the rate of speed. Race cars excluded, although a lot of technology like seat belts and crush zones have trickled down to consumer vehicles.

Example: Princess Diana; their car hit the concrete post at what, 60, 80 MPH. One report I read or saw on the vid, has some 'expert' who said going that fast an coming to a very fast stop like that is highly fatal as blood vessels around the heart are rupture as heart, aorta, etc, bounce around inside the chest.

And while we're at it, the few times I got a vehicle, 1975 Lancia Beta Coupe, up to speed I stopped looking at the speedometer at around 120 MPH. A split second glance with eyes off the road was risking drifting 2 or three lanes.

Call it 10mpg - equation inside

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets see.
A Corvette can do 180+ mph with a 400+ hp engine.
400 hp requires about 200 lbs of fuel to burned per hour. BSFC can be estimated at .5.
A gallon of gas is roughly 6 lbs.
So in one hour, 180 miles would take 200/6 or 33 gallons. Call it 5 mpg.

So 132mph, if the ratio of speed vs. drag is proportional to velocity squared.... 10mpg is probably a good guess.
My quick math says multiply by 1.9.
BTW, the 2014 corvette maxes out at 190mph with a 460hp engine.

Top speed of the Beyron is about 120mph faster...

[Anonymous Coward]

250mph if not 260...

so it will be in the middle lane then

[smash]

Given that the slow lane = 130-160km/h, middle lane is 160-200km/h and the left lane(s) are 200km/h+

Oh and yes, this can be done fairly safely. The germans and other europeans do it every day. Of course if you're driving some beat up old piece of shit, you shouldnt be in the fast lane, but if you're in a big beemer or merc it is no sweat.

The infamous Germany highway

[Gonoff]

What on earth is infamous about it?
Most of us wish our highway system was as good.

You can get that data in real time

[drainbramage]

Your vehicle has an OBD-II diagnostic connector.
You just plug in a 'ScanGauge' or similar device.
I see a real drop off in instantaneous MPG from 70 and up.
Turns out 68 is the sweet spot for my car, about the same point as my motorcycle.

Re:You can get that data in real time

[doccus]

I ride an electric scooter, and with lead acid batteries.when going 45 MPH (the top speed) I get about 6-8 mile range! I can double that by going the designated speed that the bike's supposed to go.(25 MPH)..

Re: You can get that data in real time

[Anonymous Coward]

When I run real fast, I can only go a few hundred yards (meters for all you foreigners).
When I walk slowly, I can go for miles.

Re:You can get that data in real time

[Anonymous Coward]

Should be the same; the mileage numbers the EPA reports are done at specific speeds, so most vehicles are tuned for efficiency at those speeds (and suffer elsewhere for it).