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Tesla's Having Issues Charging In the Cold
cartechboy writes "It's winter, and apparently meteorologists have just discovered the term Polar Vortex, as that seems to be the only thing they can talk about these days. But seriously, it's cold, and apparently the darling child of the automotive industry, the new Tesla Model S electric car, is having issues charging in the cold weather. It's being reported that the charging cables that come with the car are unable to provide a charge when the temperature dips below zero. As you can imagine, this is an issue in a country like Norway where the Model S is one of the most popular cars. In fact, it seems this issue has already left one Model S owner stranded with a dead battery nearly 100 miles from the nearest charging station. Other owners are reporting issues charging. Tesla's European sales chief Peter Bardenfleth-Hansen apologized for he inconvenience owners are facing, and said it's 'trying hard to resolve' the issue. Apparently the issues are simply down to the differences in the Norwegian network as Norway uses a slightly different charging adapter than other countries in Europe."
"below zero' Kelvin? (is that you, Frank Herbert?) Centigrade? Farenheit?
People disincentivized into buying electric cars, increasing CO2 emissions, raising planetary temperatures until electric cars work.
What's with all the anti-Tesla articles?
Because they are awesome from a technological standpoint? And there is a large crossover between computer geeks and people who like cars?
Batteries are having trouble charging in the cold!?! Nah, that never happens! /sarcasm
I'd think the batteries would be the problem. Running serious current through the wires should keep them warm even in cold weather. Plus, conductivity should go up with colder temperature.
Now the batteries on the other hand.... Batteries don't hold charge very well in the cold. It's been one of the two big problems for electric cars since the 19th century.
Apparently the issues are simply down to the differences in the Norwegian network as Norway uses a slightly different charging adapter than other countries in Europe.
There is a right way, a wrong way, and a Norwegian way. --Edgar Hansen, Northwestern, Deadliest Catch
I'm shocked I tell you! Well, not really because it's cold out and the batteries aren't charged.
newsflash: batteries generate electricty from stored chemical energy
How do think a battery works exactly?
Or is this years model S using some sort of super capacitor now?
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I am reminded why most lifeforms has been storing energy chemically, as opposed to electrically, for billions of years.
But... batteries store energy as chemical energy.
...and how do you suppose a battery works?
Yes, it's related to the cold, but it also appears to be related to the specific issues of Norway's grid.
Some speculation is that the problem involves too-extreme fluctuations in the electricity provided by that grid and a charger-side software-mediated shutoff of charging. If that's the case, then this might be another charger issue that can be solved with an over-the-air "patch" like some of the previous problems.
While this is definitely a concern for Tesla and their Norwegian customers, it doesn't seem to be relevant to cars in North America.
I am reminded why most lifeforms has been storing energy chemically, as opposed to electrically, for billions of years.
Oh, you mean like this? Coming soon to an electric car near you! lol
Then we'll have to go out on Tauntauns
Tesla was having issues charging.
Nope, no bias in the summary at all. I couldn't possibly imagine anything other than a "just the facts" linked article.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
They should be more like the japanese: underpromise and overdeliver!
Weird, eh?
I used to work in Northern Canada where all the US and some of the European manufacturers used to do cold weather testing. (The toolsets and options differ in North America which is why separate testing was done for Europe.) The Asian manufacturers were also doing cold testing there but their labs and warehouses ended up with all of the crappy real estate.
Did anyone seriously think the cold wouldn't be an issue? People need to get out of California and see what the rest of the world is like.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
This is like saying a car is bad because the gas hose does not fit when it gets cold.
It is not an issue with the car.
And "dips below zero" would be a poor threshold.
We have windshield washer fluid that is rated to -50C (-58F) for a good reason.
All we need is develop a car that runs on fat cells and we can use the liposuction from North Americans (Canadians included) to run the worlds transportation system indefinitely.
And we are shown what a cretin you are.
Because many of us are interested. Tesla, love'em or hate'm are trying to sell a pure electric car without the compromises at a price at least a segment of the mass market can afford. There are ton's of technical hurdles to doing that and its interesting to watch theory and design encounter real world conditions.
Tesla is somewhat unique in this area too, Yes there is all electric Leaf and that strange i-Miev thing but neither of those comes anywhere near offering the range and performance characteristics of what most of us Americans expect from our ICE powered vehicles, in other words they make compromises, where as most Slashdoter's would be quite pleased with the Tesla compared to their current ride, provided it continues to live up to expectations.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Yet another product the manufacture didn't bother to actually test in the conditions the average person might expect to use said product.
No, meteorologists have understood the term Polar Vortex for decades. Weathermen, newscasters, and ratings-minded producers have only just discovered the term.
Because they are awesome from a technological standpoint?
Howso, please? They're brilliantly marketed, but I fail to see how they're technically awesome. What do you consider impressive about them? Be specific.
And there is a large crossover between computer geeks and people who like cars?
Disagree. You might as well say, "There's a large crossover between jocks and people who like cars." You know, fast cars, loose women, etc. lol stereotypes.
apparently the darling child of the automotive industry
What's with the snide side commentary? Tesla isn't the "darling" of anyone. Snide, obnoxious comments like this are pretty much du jour in any coverage. Everyone's gunning for them, simply because they're odd kid on the block.
A Tesla catches fire after hitting a piece of massive road debris or getiting into a crash, and it's a fucking national emergency, their stock tanks, electric cars are suddenly "unsafe", etc.
Meanwhile: do you drive a Ford SUV made in the 90's? Twice, Ford weakened the roof and support pillars to save money, against the recommendation of their engineers.
Drive a 90's Ford? Their ignition switches were substandard and could short out, causing your car to catch fire at random. 8.6 million vehicles: http://articles.baltimoresun.c...
Drive a recent GM truck? They've also got a "randomly burst into fire" problem; 370,000 vehicles: http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/1...
Just google "GM recall fire" or "Ford recall fire" and read page after page of recalls that affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of vehicles.
Please help metamoderate.
My conventional engine pickup won't start when it's cold. Heck, I'm having trouble getting up myself this winter. This old man doesn't really see the issue here.
...the charging cables that come with the car are unable to provide a charge when the temperature dips below zero.
Um, Dear Editors (Slashdot and Green Car Reports), The "cables" can't provide a charge?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I'm really tired of these articles popping up before the issue is fully diagnosed. I understand the media's need/want to be the first to break the story, but what story is really here?
All we know is that the car is possibly having charging problems in an isolated area. With none of the variables worked out, or the root of the problem fully diagnosed, why is the media once again so quick to blame the Tesla?
provided it continues to live up to expectations.
What do you mean "continues"?
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Why is every Tesla fart reported on ./?
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
So its necessary to point out every liability about this new fangled electric car so that buyers put that silly idea out of their head. Besides, big auto will take advertisements in your newspaper, blog site, etc when you have Tesla failure stories. Now double check those jumper cables, then go crank it over while I spray some ether down the intake.
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but batteries depend on a current carrying path from anode to cathode for the "half -cell" reactions take place. Not quite like most living things
The name Tesla also holds a special place in geek culture. Choosing that as name for an electric car manufacture puts a greater expectation on the product.
My car ran out of gas the other day when I was way, way out in the boondocks in freezing Norway. Not a gas station within 100 miles. Is slashdot going to report on that? Oh no, that's not a Tesla, and we're only interested when Tesla cars run out of gas, oops, I mean electricity.
The question was why is every Tesla _fart_ coming up on slashdot. The news on Tesla, GM, or Edsel really needs to be saved for important issues, and not just someone running out of fscking gasahol.
Am thinking the new Wall Chargers and/or the Software update are causing problems. When it gets cold electrical junction tended to shrink away from each other. The junctions rarely open but instead loose current carrying ability. Normally though this isn't too big a deal because they under go ohmic heating when the current gets high enough. Some Wattage is lost maintaining the temperature at the junction but it's usually very small and self regulating.(More heat causes less resistance in this case making a self regulating loop) I have even see this happen at room temperature where the junction would heat fixing it self. However, Tesla has made it so that charging system checks for bad junctions and if it detects them it ether turns off or charges slowly. Obviously, this prevents the junction from heating up and fixing it self.
What's next, are we going to post about a gasoline car not starting (am actually trying to help someone jumpstart their ICE right now, maybe I can get featured too)?
Anyways, just last week, someone made the trip from NYC to LA in his Tesla Model S, seen temps in the -20F range, and the car was just fine. I'm driving my EV in these same temps, no issues either (ignoring the lower range).
This is not a battery issue as some people seem to indicate.
Nope. They don't generate electricity, they store energy. Learn more Thermodynamics. Additionally: Some batteries store power as EM fields. A high density battery (gang) of capacitors is known as an ultracapacitor, but it's just a battery.
...on the slightly-different-connector-excuse, and here's why:
- The voltage is the same (230V@50Hz)
- The connectors are interchangable (The only difference being the layout of the grounding pins, but support for both are required)
- If Tesla has supplied adapters that operate differently based on the socket in use (Scandinavia vs (most of) rest of Europe) they are breaching EU regulations (Yes, those regulations cover Norway, despite not being an EU member)
This is like a paper manufacturer experiencing problems with people using red pens instead of blue on their white cellulose based product.
As much as i like Tesla and their cars, this explanation is just lame.
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
It's not a 'starting problem', it's a 'refuelling problem'. I've refuelled my car at 40 below zero before, with no problems.
And it starts at 30 below zero if I forget to plug the heater in, though it's not very happy about that.
I'd advise Slashdot readers to take their typical tack, and not read the linked articles. They are crap. However (again, much like Slashdot), the comments can be enlightening.
What I'm seeing there is:
a) This is not about the cold, or winter at all. Its been a problem since they started delivering vehicles in August.
b) Due to all the bad press (from poor journalists such as these) over fires from improperly overcharged batteries, Tesla charging cables now try to detect when a battery is fully-charged and stop the charging process.
c) They do this by looking for changes in the current flow through them.
d) Norway's power grid is so dirty that it is fooling the cables. That's the issue, near as I can tell.
If you live in Norway, stick with proven technology. Like gasoline engines. Let's face it. Norway is often very cold in the winter. Cold enough that people die from cold unless they have machines to keep them warm. When you live in places that have extreme weather, you HAVE to accept that proven working technology like gasoline-engines-for -transportation overrides any emotional feelings of needing to serve as a test site for so-called green technology. In California it doesn't matter. But Norway's not California. If you fuck up and buy a 'green' car that won't start in the cold, then you die in the cold. Act accordingly. Nobody in California gives a shit whether or not you freeze to death because their technology failed.
This very expensive automobile has demonstratively failed to meet the needs of people who live north of the 55th meridian. Norwegians should not buy it. Buy a Volvo: Swedes understand cold and their cars can be coaxed to start in extremely cold weather.
And there is this briefly mentioned problem of the fucking Norwegian electrical connectors not mating with standard electric car connectors... You'all need to find the guy responsible for this, strip him to underwear, and dump out into the snow. Be sure to leave him with an electric heater that has a plug that just quite doesn't fit into the socket needed to stay alive. If he lives, then he won't be doing stupid shit like this any more. If he dies, well, just one more soul sacrifice to the Viking gods.
So, the company is having trouble charging?
One Tesla is having trouble charging?
most Slashdoter's would be quite pleased with the Tesla compared to their current ride, provided it continues to live up to expectations.
Its interesting that living up to the expectations is something the Tesla pretty much takes in stride, and all we hear about are the corner cases of Tesla glitches.
Fires after devastating crashes, charger issues, etc.
Similar (and worse) problems in ICE vehicles are scarcely mentioned, Gas line freezes, gas tank ruptures, just refusing to start in cold weather.
There seems to be a media preference for reporting problems, no doubt fueled by all the advertising done by the big auto makers. Of course nobody will admit this, or that advertising influences their story in any way, and yet they will sandwich this news between car ads from 4 or 5 different automakers.
So geek interest plus big-auto nay-saying to dealership hostility all conspire to make sure you hear every bad thing regardless of how small.
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FTFA: "The issues are simply down to differences in the Norwegian network that Tesla has not experienced elsewhere"
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
Someone haven't driven a diesel in sub zero temperatures without a block-heater.
The charging issue is a problem but not an unsolvable one. The battery just has to be warmed up before charging.
good old gas and diesel cars always work when it's below freezing.
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
It's not a 'starting problem', it's a 'refuelling problem'. I've refuelled my car at 40 below zero before, with no problems.
And it starts at 30 below zero if I forget to plug the heater in, though it's not very happy about that.
Yeah, and I've had gas line freeze at 10 below, 20 minutes after filling the tank, cars that simply refuse to start, fought for head block heater parking spaces at work, etc. Anyone who has lived in cold country who doesn't have a cold weather car horror story doesn't own a car.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
Started my ICE at -12f (-24c) today and refueled it enough to go about 400 miles in 3 minutes yesterday at -8f (-22c). No issues either time. My car is 7 years old and has nearly 120k miles on it.
So its necessary to point out every liability about this new fangled electric car so that buyers put that silly idea out of their head.
Just like it's necessary to point out a change in iOS7's icons about a dozen times to give the Apple fanbois something to defend and Fandroids something to mock? Welcome to Slashdot.
I am in the middle of the polar vortex (-13F today) and haven't been having any issues charging my Tesla. I also haven't heard of anyone else in MN having charging issues. This really appears to be a Norwegian issue moreso than a general Tesla + cold issue.
'below zero' Kelvin?
Winter
In winter much of Norway is usually transformed into a snow-clad paradise.
The lower inland areas, both in the southern and northern parts of Norway, can have very low mean temperatures in winter. Temperatures can reach below -40 F/-40 C in the inner areas of Finnmark, Troms, Trondelag and Eastern Norway, even if this does not happen each winter.
By contrast, the coastal areas have comparatively mild winters. However, gales, rain and clouds can be frequent and heavy.
Seasons and climate in Norway
It doesn't matter whether you measure temperature in degrees Fahrenheit or Centigrade. What matters is whether you can keep your Tesla on the road through a Nordic winter.
I have a Chevy Volt at present. This recent cold weather snap has made it MORE expensive to drive around than my 2 year old gas car. It went from 44 miles on a charge to just barely making it to 25. I am interested if the Tesla has a similar reduction in range, and certainly in what else gets effected in the severe cold.
Anyone who has lived in cold country who doesn't have a cold weather car horror story doesn't own a car.
Wow. Apparently I don't own a car. I must have imagined driving it this morning.
Because they are electric cars that look good, and not the hideous little bubbles that a number of previous electric vehicles looked like.
Plus, Tesla vehicles are interesting. They have a pickup truck in the works, and being to put together something like that is something no company has even attempted yet. GM has tried to make a hybrid Silverado for a few years, but gave up the effort. If Tesla can pull this off, it would provide a lot of utility, from not having to have a generator on site (just a heavy duty PSW inverter to handle power tools) to max torque at 0 RPM, there are a lot of advantages to an electric pickup.
I complain about the submission author's bias and general bias against Tesla, and you mod it offtopic?
Time to start meta-moderating more.
Please help metamoderate.
When I last checked, the lowest priced Tesla available was $80,000 (Tesla's website says $70,000 but that seems to be assuming $10,000 in tax credits). I'm struggling to see how that's affordable to any segment of the "mass market." That's not to knock Tesla - it's an extremely nice, very expensive luxury car. But it is still a very expensive luxury car.
They're not reporting on your running out of gas in Norway because it didn't happen.
Third grade grammar: learn it. Nerds are not supposed to be illiterate.
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
Someone haven't driven a diesel in sub zero temperatures without a block-heater.
Or someone doesn't recognize sarcasm when its cold outside?
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Where did I say that EVERY trip included a horror story?
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Some example of a guy stuck 100 miles away from a charging station as a result... AWAY.
If it was a charging issue, then shouldn't he still be at the charging station? If his voltage meter? was indicating the wrong amount, this has nothing to do with the charging station. If it was reading correctly as "low" and he opted to drive 100 miles into the middle of nowhere isn't that the fault of a stupid driver?
Anyway I think you summarized all the points, but I am still left wondering why (how) that left a man stranded 100 miles from a charging station...
We need a "-1 Whooooosh!" mod.
Because you're dumb and don't know to plan ahead with your gas purchases, while the Tesla is a design or build problem with the car (charger)?
Going on inside a prog's mind: my environmental car won't charge unless it's warmer, but global warming will fix my car. Mind gets stuck in a paradox loop and head explodes. Rest of the planet returns to normal.
To the editors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/...
It is either "Tesla is..." or "Teslas".
"Have you solved the icing problem?"
- Tony Stark
Mercedes bursts into flames on the freeway? Doesn't make the news.
Tesla bursts into flames on the freeway? Front page of Slashdot!
Chevy won't start when it's minus 40 degrees? "Yup. They do that."
Tesla won't charge when it's minus 40 degrees? Front page of Slashdot!
Whatever the shadowy consortium of conventional car dealers is paying you guys, it's worth every penny. Keep it up.
0 1 - just my two bits
Well, I've had a car that BARELY started after multiple tries at about 20F because the battery was 5 years old, and I've been stuck in the snow and ice three or four times... does that count? Because I've never had my fuel lines freeze up, even with a 1976 Ford in an upstate NY winter.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Tesla is kinda at the vanguard of mass market general purpose electric vehicles and people are watching them closely to see how it goes. Are they going to be another failure, or a model of future development? Many are curious and wish to see how it pans out as various highs and lows occur.
... you would have stated that the gas pumps were inoperable when you tried filling your tank. This isn't about an end user being a moron who left himself stranded 100 miles from the nearest gas station. It's about an end user left without the expected charge functionality of the car due to the cold. Two decidedly different issues. I'll leave you to guess which one is the actual moron.
Because there are people who do not want to see non-internal combustion cars succeed. For various reasons.
And the reason this story is in the news is because internal combustion engines never have problems in cold weather.
Who do you think pumps more advertising dollars into the media? Companies that are focused on electric cars or companies who primarily make cars that are driven by internal combustion? Do you expect to see more commercials during the Super BowlTM for the Tesla or Chevrolet pickup trucks? And what's the over-under on how many of those Chevy Silverado commercials will be blatantly homoerotic to appeal to the red-blooded, tight jeans and flannel shirt wearing, hairy-chested, gun toting, Red State macho men who want Peyton Manning to bend them over a lay-z-boy and hit the hole in a off-tackle trap to their 2 gap. On one. Omaha.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Because if a Tesla can't charge below 0, then it is useless for most of Europe and North America for most of the winter months.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Slashdot's slogan : "Please scroll down at least half way to read relevant comments"
Dark Reflection
Mass market is a fairly relative term, but while 80k is expensive it is still within the range of the upper middle class, so a potential market of millions of families as opposed to tens of thousands. In cars the non-mass market ones would be the custom 'we build your car from scratch when you order' sports cars and such.
Plus you have a nice warm, smelly emergency shelter. Don't forget your lightsaber.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Here's a must see link for us weather nerds...
http://earth.nullschool.net/
make sure to tune into the 10 hPa setting and watch the polar vortex do its thing.
Thank you supercomputer...
arcflash: electrical contactors can create blinding plasma when stuck in partially-conducting states
Ok, give me a fucking break. Yes, ICEs were hard to start in the cold 30 years ago when most cars had finicky carburetors, weaker ignition systems, and rudimentary electronic controls. I haven't owned a car in the last 20 years that I've ever had to do anything more than turn the key to get it to start, even in -20 degree Fahrenheit or maybe even colder. Modern EFI and advanced computer systems have made "spraying ether down the intake" a quaint historical memory.
If you really know anything about cars, you're being disingenuous and you know it.
Indeed, they would have gotten away with something like http://gimp.org.
Well, there is that bit about it being the most popular car sold in Norway in September. So it's not THAT niche.
But your Tauntaun will freeze before you reach the first marker!
Tesla (and battery powered cars in general) being fundamentally broken in cold weather...
A problem unique to the Tesla charging cables supplied in Norway is not "fundamentally broken" let alone having any significance to battery powered cars in general.
Tesla just needs to fix the problem and distribute new cables to Norwegian customers. Big fucking deal.
Methinks you have an axe to grind, and truth isn't important to you.
n/t
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
I guess you've never seen truck drivers having to start fires under their diesel fuel tanks in order to start when it gets really cold. I have. So you're wrong.
For sure, these days diesel usually comes with additives appropriate to the region and season to it doesn't usually gel up. This is the nature of engineering, whether in internal combustion vehicles or EVs - over time, engineers mitigate the issues.
Siberian peoples with local minus 40 Celsius smile and wave. :)
Sorry, missed the sarcasm on first read.
..and as such, it's being sold to people who are in the market for other cars in that price range (or a little below that range, plus the benefit of no gas, and status of "OMG! Tesla").
The Nissan Leaf is the poor man's Tesla.
You just haven't owned it long enough. Anecdotes do take time to accumulate.
Sticking a bunch of heavy, low density batteries into a car and attaching it to a traction motor is not, in any way, "awesome". It's boring, predictable, and rather rubbish.
Stop calling the tesla a luxury car. It's nothing more than an over priced loaded camery.
Yeah but he's using am electric grinder in winter.
Because its firggin obvious no internal combustion engines have starting problems below freezing.
I guess you've never seen truck drivers having to start fires under their diesel fuel tanks in order to start when it gets really cold. I have. So you're wrong.
I guess you've never seen sarcasm on the internet.
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You're nitpicking.
For instance, by your argument there's no such thing as an electrical generator at all. For example, those big things in a hydro dam? They don't generate electricity, they merely convert energy.
Let's see...Norway has a crappy grid that's giving Teslas problems, it's cold in Norway, so let's title this "Teslas Having Issues Charging in the Cold". Journalistic ethics, how do they work?
Look, I think Elon Musk is a jerk, I'll probably never own a Tesla, but the Tesla-bashing hype is getting old. And stupid.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
The thousands of dead batteries are on old cars that have batteries out of warranty, that will start with just a jump, and can recharge the **old** dead battery enough to run for a while in 5 minutes. This is not a $100K toy who's main selling point is a brand new battery that runs it.
[quote] Ok, I'll play. For one thing, Tesla owns its own software stack, rather than kludging together all manner of disparate electronics boxes. They're the only automaker to do so. Their software actually works, as opposed to being metastable. [/quote]
I'm not the only one to miss the sarcasm. You might consider the /s tag. Otherwise sarcasm isn't a very good communication strategy on the web. People can't hear the tone of your voice.
Besides, I already pointed out I missed your sarcasm 18 minutes ago.
I haven't owned a car in the last 20 years that I've ever had to do anything more than turn the key to get it to start, even in -20 degree Fahrenheit or maybe even colder.
Bullshit. My 10 year old car had trouble starting this morning, and even had trouble changing gears. The washer fluid also froze up in the tubes, but that one I'll chalk up to my own stupidity. And this was in friggen Annapolis Maryland! If I had to put up with this weather all the time like they do further north, I'd have to actually get my car modded with heat pads designed specifically to keep certain parts of the car from freezing overnight.
You either know jackshit about ICE cars and cold weather, or are deliberately trying to spread lies. So which is it?
Are they implying it will be outlandish and impractical?
Where the hell do you drive that your gas line freezes? Diesel can gel, but any sane driver of a diesel vehicle will also put an anti-gelling agent in their tank when the weather turns cold (and I'm sure in the colder of those places there's an anti-gelling compound already mixed in by the distributor to keep the pump from getting stopped up).
Gasoline, on the other hand, doesn't stop flowing nicely until it's way colder than what your average vehicle will handle... Chances are your water cooling system for the engine will freeze up long before then (even when properly filled with an antifreeze mixture).
Fairbanks AK ring any bells?
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Cut the guy a break. "ICE cars don't have problems in cold weather" is one of the "facts" that electric car FUDers trot out, so it wasn't real clear that you were trying to be sarcastic.
oil etc.. addiction
*Teslas
Your tauntauns will freeze before you reach the first marker.
Don't you mean the darling child of old rich people who never drive further than 50km in any direction? The tesla isn't helping anyone besides tesla.
Because you're boring and anonymous.
Salut,
Jacques
Dicedot page hits.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Howso, please? They're brilliantly marketed, but I fail to see how they're technically awesome. What do you consider impressive about them? Be specific.
Are you really that stupid? Please point to any cars which actually compete with them technically, in terms of available horsepower and all-electric driving range.
Just warm it up by having a battery fire. Easy to do I hear ;-)
Table-ized A.I.
Then we'll have to go out in Tauntauns
FTFY
Gasoline has a very, very low freezing point. The only way you can have gas lines freeze at -10 (any temp) is if you have a bunch of water in your gas.
Well of course an electric car fails in the cold compared to an ICE powered car. In my experience, ICE is most prevalent in the cold!
Batteries don't like the cold. This is inevitable and just physics/chemistry in action. If battery powered cars are going to work in cold conditions then then preheaters of the batteries will be required. For combustion based engines preheaters of the engine block are required but they do at least have the theoretical option of burning fuel to heat the engine upto a usable temperature. This is just something that battery based vehicles are going to have to deal with. If they need to have a feature to dump some power to heat things up then so be it - that is just the way that batteries are going to work but it is not a show stopper - just something that needs to be designed in.
Well DUH!
Come on, for pete sake, this has been known since the 20s.
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I believe you are referring to pop culture surrounding the name as he is portrayed as a mad scientist.
In geek culture we think of an electrical engineer at the forefront of his field as it is just starting out.
after a day outside at -20C, i plug my samsung note 1 and got the message "charging pause, battery too cold"
In geek culture we think of an electrical engineer at the forefront of his field as it is just starting out.
It is hard to understate the importance of the man who was the father of the modern electric grid...you know that whole AC thing we use, and the motors, and the generators.
That it will loose it's mind? that it will have followers who make shit up about it?
If that's true, I expect in a few years here will be claims thew car used to fly and make rainbows until ' they' took it away..
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Let's use the battery to heat the system so we can charge it!
Oh wait...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
In nerd culture, we think of him as some one in the for front of his industry and then lost his mind, sadly. We don't shy away from actual facts.
We also know what he actually did instead of the made up crap spread by ignorant people trying to look cool in their little pop culture and largely fictional universe.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's a design flaw, the gas tank wan't large enough~
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The cable doesn't know anything about the battery state. The cable is a souped-up extension cord with some protection and detection. The charger in the car does the charging, it knows the battery state. The EVSE (the proper name of this cable) is not supposed to shut off when the current goes down, the charger in the car will take care of that.
The car has always stopped charging at full, since trickle charging a Li-Ion battery is a great way to put excess wear on it.
Tesla's EVSE may be cutting off due to power problems. While it may not be Tesla's fault specifically, this would be an issue Tesla has to address.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
It could be Mr. Tesla who's having problems charging in the cold, probably because he's dead.
It could be Tesla the company which is having problems charging in the cold. (Tesla's an American company, and American English treats a company name as a singular noun, unlike British English which treats it as a plural noun.)
It could be that the author meant that Tesla Cars are having issues charging in the cold, and mistakenly pluralized them as "Tesla's" instead of "Teslas".
It could be that the author meant that the Tesla S is having issues charging in the cold, or that Tesla S Cars are, and really mistakenly punctuated it.
I'm guessing the third was most likely.
Bill Stewart
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Depends on battery chemistry. Most electric/hybrid cars seem to be congregating around Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries, which generally shouldn't be charged in the cold... it can cause lithium plating to accumulate on the anodes and if done repeatedly can eventually compromise the safety of the battery packs. Discharging (using) them below freezing is OK, but charging is not.
So we can expect Elon Musk to eventually go mad and fall in love with a pigeon?
I have been working on cars, as a hobbyist/shadetree mechanic mind you, for more than 2 decades. The last car I had any real trouble getting to start and run in below-zero temperatures was my 1984 Buick LeSabre with a 4 barrel carburetor. Mind you, I could generally get it to start and run, but not without a slew of attempts at doing so, first. Also, I got it in 1991 with 110k on it, so it wasn't exactly new. It would start and run like a champ once I rebuilt that carburetor. I'm not trying to be a dick, or show you up. I'm just saying that every car I've owned since then has never failed to start on me in the cold short of having a worn-out battery that should have been changed (operator error).
I don't think it's any coincidence that every one of them also has had multi-port EFI, which gives the ECM precise control over the air/fuel mixture to allow it to start and run efficiently, regardless of the ambient temperature. It was actually -18 here this morning, and both my 1995 Toyota with over 250k on the clock, and my 2006 Toyota with 160k both started and ran like the day they drove off the lot. Just sayin'.
Norway is a niche in itself, offering subsidies to electric vehicles.
Contrast that to the eurozone, where sales of said Tesla were about an 1/8 of that in nearby Germany, despite a population 15 times bigger.
For whatever reason, Anonymous Coward seems to hate Tesla with a passion.
You obviously haven't actually been in one. It is the best car ever made. Pretty straight forward.
Just avoid the Tauntaun Model S. It fails to eat at any zero degrees.
This might help once its out in the wild, http://www.theengineer.co.uk/p.... It'll make all vehicles lighter and probably easier to manufacture bring down weight and costs.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
> in Minnesota every cold snap results in thousands of dead batteries. The number one call out for tow truck companies out here isn't a flat tire but a dead battery.
Soviet made cars (including Lada, a licenced, modified copy of the italian Fiat 124) are equipped with a hole in the front fender, for hand-crank attachment, to start the engine in battery-killing cold. Their trucks also feature a hand-crankable flywheel and / or a compressed air tank that can rotate the diesel engine until compression-based self ignition starts.
The famous T-34 battle tank features all three for its 30 liter engine: heavy-duty batteries, comp. air tanks and a hand-crankable flywheel. That's how one was paraded in the streets of Budapest during the 2006 revolution. The batteries and the crank-arm were removed, but a pensioner remembered the beast can also be started via air tank.
No, the Nissan Leaf is the "still rich enough to spend a huge chunk of money on a low-range toy" man's Tesla. There is no poor man's electric car, or even a lower-middle-class man's electric car.
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Gas lines can freeze when it gets colder (-20C or colder) not because the gasoline freezes but because of condensation in the gas tank. The small amount of water will freeze when it comes in contact with the cold gas line restricting the flow of fuel. This can be avoided by keeping your gas tank full, limiting the amount of condensation.
If you are going with a conspiracy theory it would be that it had a wireless charging method that worked on free energy no matter where you were all with a battery the size of a double "A". Until of course "they" buried the patents {in some secret classified facility} and slipped Elon something that made him go mad to discredit him and keep him under control. All this because of a secret pact between politicians, the oil, and power industry motivated by profit and world domination.
The Leaf is available as a $240 (after tax) lease with fuel costs under $20/mo. It's hardly expensive.
USA Today tells me the average new car purchase price in 2013 was about $31,200 - about $10k more than a an entry level Nissan Leaf after the tax credit.
It's hardly a low-range toy.
I have purchased multiple keyboards over the years, and as the lettering or dirt soils the unit, I replace same. Most of these are not deep dished on the keytops, and have that grating feeling when depressing a key.
My IBM keyboard with the ps2 plug was borrowed by my grandchild, and the plug was damaged by her, when she tryed to reinsert the plug into the socket.
Is it possible to just snip off the ps2 plug and put on a USB2 one in its place, or is there a big difference between keyboard electronics manufactured with one or the other?
My other option, probably what I may do, is open up the keyboard, and replace the full cable. Before I regret taking the wrong action, your advice would be appreciated.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
I have similar batteries - LiFePO.. I assumed, because I read it everywhere on the net, that the cold could destroy them, or ast least affect it's ability to contain a charge, so I have delayed replacing my lead acid batteries on my bike because of that. Was that an old wives tale then? Or is that the reason that Teslas use the (potentially) more dangerous Lithium Ion batteries, because they're better in the cold? And please, no snarky comments about how Lithium Ion are "safe" They are, *unless* a spike is driven through them or they are improperly charged, when they can explode.
...anyone who has taken a laptop or cellphone on a cold mountain camping trip. But then I read the comments above by those much more learned than me, and I realize I probably don't know what I'm talking about!
Yep - I know a few people there... Not cold enough to freeze gasoline, sorry.
It is, is it?
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
Hmm... Condensation. A few problems with this...
1) If it's that cold out, why wouldn't the condensation freeze in the tank? I've never seen a heated gas tank...
2) Most of the really cold places I've seen put 10% ethanol in the gas... this should help dissolve any condensation nicely into the fuel, letting it just run through the system without freezing up.
3) Really Cold also means Really Dry, which should mean little to no condensation. The condensation happens when warm, moist air hits really cold things or air. Unless someone's making out with their gas tank, there shouldn't be much opportunity for warm, moist air to enter.
4) Anyone who has a major problem with condensation should consider using additives (methanol/ethanol) to take care of the problem. These are plentiful and cheap - I believe last time I bought the Walmart version I paid $0.50/pint (clearance after winter last year).
So gas line freeze is a scientific impossibility?
Hint: for the totally clueless: Water in the gas freezes, blocking fuel. Even a fifth grader understands that.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Norway is a niche in itself, offering subsidies to electric vehicles.
Many or possibly most countries in Europe offer EV subsidies and other incentives. As do many US states. So no, that doesn't make Norway a niche.
Contrast that to the eurozone, where sales of said Tesla were about an 1/8 of that in nearby Germany, despite a population 15 times bigger.
I'm not sure what you mean, given that Germany is a Eurozone state. Thus the sales in the Eurozone can't be less than the sales in Germany.
In 2008 Gore assured the world that the northern polar ice cap would be gone. Gore also said we will reach the point of no return regarding global warming by 2016. So no worries EV owners, keep believing and your dead cars will be dead no more. As for me, a wool sweater and a car with an Internal combustion engine-
The Leaf is OK for the price but it's seriously range limited. It really is a city car. The iMIEV is a lot better but the cost is painfully close to the Tesla which is in every way a better car for most people.
1) If it's that cold out, why wouldn't the condensation freeze in the tank? I've never seen a heated gas tank...
It probably does and won't cause a problem in that case.
2) Most of the really cold places I've seen put 10% ethanol in the gas... this should help dissolve any condensation nicely into the fuel, letting it just run through the system without freezing up.
Not always.
3) Really Cold also means Really Dry, which should mean little to no condensation. The condensation happens when warm, moist air hits really cold things or air. Unless someone's making out with their gas tank, there shouldn't be much opportunity for warm, moist air to enter.
I Should have been clearer here. I have had it happen to me when the temperature went from -5C to -20C (approx). Plenty of opportunity for condensation to occur.
4) Anyone who has a major problem with condensation should consider using additives (methanol/ethanol) to take care of the problem. These are plentiful and cheap - I believe last time I bought the Walmart version I paid $0.50/pint (clearance after winter last year).
Doesn't refute my point that it can occur and when it happened to me it was a rental car
It's kinda surprising that there aren't EV equivalents of block heaters to keep the batteries warm and not waste charge warming up the cabin.