Slashdot Mirror
Leonard Nimoy: Smoking Is Illogical
An anonymous reader writes "My boyhood hero, actor Leonard Nimoy,
has developed lung disease. To those still smoking and in the grips of marketing induced denial, he says 'quit now.' Small acts of goodness make the universe a better place."
Also, Why so many short submissions? Is slashdot trying to dilute the FUCK BETA?
It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want.
--Spock in 'Errand of Mercy'
Nowhere am I so desperately needed as among a shipload of illogical humans.
--Spock in 'I, Mudd'
You're 82, Leonard. Holding yourself up as an example of the ravages of smoking after reaching the age of 82 is illogical. Refusing to accept death at 82 is illogical. Go with grace.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
not supporting life extension is also illogical. Space fans really need to get their priorities straight, it's highly unlikely that any Star Trek-level of technology will ever happen, so if you want to explore the immense void out there, you'll have to live longer, a LOT longer. So never mind just quitting smoking; we'll need a serious, global, universal project to really understand life processes and extend youth.
It is not my fault! Marketing made me do it!
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I thought Mr. Data was single. Did he get married? I know he is fully functional but I didn't see a ring on his magic finger.
Is it even possible to be in 'marketing denial' at this point? Hasn't everyone had it pounded into them that smoking is bad, second hand smoke is bad, and now we even have third hand smoke? Is it really possible to live in the US and not understand the problems of smoking?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Exactly! Why would Slashdot ever carry a story about Leonard Nimoy? Wasn't he in some westerns, like Gunsmoke and The Virginian? Anything else that we should know about? Did he ever travel? Any famous treks to relate that nerds would care about?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Better link for The Virginian. The doctor with him looks familiar too, good old DeForest Kelly, another old hand in the Westerns.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Deciding not to breed is the best decision any human can make. Grandiose sentiments be damned.
Perhaps in the distant past smoking marketers claimed smoking was safe, but I never saw any sign of that... they simply make smoking glamorous while glossing over the dangers, but it's not like they actively hide the dangers.
Nor is it the case that any person who smokes does not know the danger at this point. There are millions of sources telling you smoking is bad. People do things they know are bad for them for whatever reason; that will never stop and it's unfair to blame marketing for human nature.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think the well is drying up, because people are sick of beta or the arguments about beta, nobody is submitting any real stories.
So they are left with these useless stories.
The social oriented market segment that Dice is seemingly courting seems to be the only segment left.
All the tech and nerd types have left the building.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Was he out of his vulcan mind?!
Leonard Nimoy is 82 and he probably has a few more years ahead of him. Was he planning on living to be 1000 years old?
Smoking has pluses and minuses. News flash: people like to smoke, just like they like drinking alcohol and using other substances. Ask a heroin user whether he likes heroin -- he loves it. So it's not illogical to take heroin, but it's a choice that can have a negative long-term effect.
If you're already 82, like Leonard Nimoy, you might want to try smoking. Or heroin. The benefits are immediate. And you probably won't live to experience the consequences.
Why would someone ignore all the warning signs and stumble blindly ahead on a path to certain doom?
Because nicotine is addicting.
Just like heroin or cocaine, except more so.
yup - they're diluting and modding down our efforts in an attempt to make the situation look less dire for the casual reader.
RIP slashdot.
We got this from Yul Brynner in 1989. Should have listened to him then, Skippy. Anyway, like the South Park cheerful smoking song goes, "If it gives me cancer when I'm 80 I don't care, who the hell wants to be 90 anyway?" I guess the answer to that one must be "Leonard Nimoy."
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Fuck Data.
I switched to ce4, stopped my asphyxia + I can smell again === =)
Considering that he is sort of an icon to nerds and is dying of a recently announced disease, I would considering it newsworthy.
Although I doubt that smoking is the main reason he has COPD now considering he stopped smoking so long ago, but it may have been a contributing factor. He was an avid Photographer, and if he did a lot of darkroom work, he could have contracted the disease from breathing in the Caustic Developer Chemicals.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
I wish I had mod points for this.
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
Why would someone ignore all the warning signs and stumble blindly ahead on a path to certain doom?
When others who did the same all shared the same fate?
When trusted community members spoke up and said "were asking you to stop because we care?"
Why would anyone ignore all of the clear warning signs of impending death?
Cigarettes are either a stimulant, or a depressant, depending on dosage. Which means, if you're tired or depressed, it will fix that, and if you're anxious and upset, it will fix that too. It will increase your emotional equilibrium, and make you cool.
Cigarettes increase the quality of life of those that smoke them. That's why people do it.
If you don't understand now, it's because you're refusing to do so.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Yeah, a lot of people are moving to personal vaporizers as cigarette replacements. A a nic-free vaper myself, it's something I actively encourage agreeable smokers that I see to do. It's a lot healthier and far cheaper in the long run.
The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
Oh, and they help keep you from getting fat too.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
You do realize that many people, while possibly addicted to smoking, continue to do so because they want to, they enjoy it. When you tell them to get help or to quit, you are actually telling them not to do something that is legal and they enjoy.
What I'm getting at is the anger is not from the conviction, it is likely from someone saying you can't do what you enjoy doing. Imagine if your family members constantly berated you over using the internet or whatever it is you enjoy because of hyped up claims about how bad it is for you despite no apparent signs of the damage until it some distant future. You would eventually get angry too.
He does not, so far as we know, have cancer. Read the summary or the article. Nimoy has Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD), one of the other bad things that can happen to you as a result of smoking.
It's your choice to smoke, of course, but COPD is an unpleasant disease and quitting would halve your chances of developing COPD and delay the onset of crippling symptoms if you do develop it.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Nimoy didn't get lung cancer, he got COPD.
Smoking does heavily increase your chance of getting lung cancer but it's not the sole cause of it. Smoking does make you far more likely to suffer from one or more of a very large array of nasty illnesses during your lifetime. It also reduces your life span significantly.
Quit smoking if you care at all about the risks of illness and disability that smoking causes. Or accept that you are a nicotine junkie and that you are lying to yourself about your habit because you can't face withdrawal.
I use something like this -> http://i.imgur.com/ciomNzs.jpg
Only nicotine - none of the tar or any other 500 chemicals which burn in a cigarette.
If you gonna live till 82, you gonna develop any disease you can possibly develop.
Why should she? Freedom means free to make bad choices the one who needs help is you. Let people make their own decisions good or bad, Help only when asked and try to guide but Never! Never impose your ideals of whats right and wrong on another.
Freedom doesn't mean the freedom to harm other people. Drug addicts do harm other people. This is why most drugs are illegal unless proscribed, because they harm far more people than just those taking them.
you can get lung cancer having never smoked and never been around anyone who has. Using lung cancer to say smoking is bad is like saying thinking or using beta causes brain cancer.
Nimoy has COPD not lung cancer. Smoking isn't the sole cause of lung cancer, it's a HUGE risk factor but not the sole cause. Smoking also causes a bunch of other really debilitating diseases.
Do you think we are stupid?
Not sure. That argument sure is stupid.
Not true. I smoked for several years and quit for a little over a year and started smoking again. People like the smoke sensation entering their lungs, they like the relaxation afterwards and they like the way smoking steadies the hands and increases dexterity slightly. When I went back to smoking, I had absolutely no withdraw effects but I went back because I liked it. I only quit smoking (cold turkey) to get in a girls pants and she stuck around after I started back up despite being dead set against it when we first met.
I still smoke today because I enjoy it. If you do not smoke, I guess you will never understand but you have it all wrong. Sure there is addiction, but there is also other positives about smoking that people like and enjoy much the same as people who like to drink alcohol or toke on some weed or even do other drugs occasionally. All that can be done without addiction and is often done because people enjoy it.
She's dead Jim., Dice filling the pipe with Slashvertisements (because they thought they could get paid for Slashads AND for regular ads) has killed the revenue, they took a complete writedown on the site already. Frankly at this point all one can do is move to Alt when its ready because Dice considers /. a BRAND and by "rebranding" they think they can make it into another Digg/Gawker/Fark. Hell the comments section might as well have "powered by Disqus" for all the ripping off they did.
As for TFA, as someone who smoked for 30 years and tried everything,patch,gum, pills, the only thing that worked was the "Ego style" ecigs, the ones with the separate tank and the 510 threading. Thanks to those I've been cigarette free for going on 3 months and have gone from a 30mg to 24mg to 18mg, although I'll probably stay on 18 a couple months as I tried 11mg in a VG and couldn't tell I was smoking the thing, maybe an 80/20 PG to VG will let me drop below 18Mg.
But as TFA shows the sad thing is you WILL get COPD, doesn't matter how long ago you quit as you WILL get it if something else don't get you first. So if you are quitting do it because you don't want to be smelling like smoke or be out of breath, because if you have smoked more than a couple of years you might as well accept COPD is in your future regardless.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
TFA says he has COPD - Cardio Obstructive Pulmonary Disorder. This is essentially emphysema and congestive heart failure. The disease is terminal. My father died from this disorder, so I've seen it personally. Not a nice way to go (not that any of them are).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...
Still, Nimoy said that he'd quit smoking thirty years ago. While it's possible the smoking is a contributory factor, COPD is also commonly diagnosed in those who've never smoked. And Nimoy is an old man.
Of course I wish him well and hope he is cared for by the best doctors available.
What? Quitting is easy!
I've done it lots of times.
Our friend Leonard Nimoy is probably feeling very mortal these days. So would you if you were 82 years old. I hope he enjoys every day he has left, spending as much time as he can spoiling his grandkids and telling Zachary Quinto more about the Zen of Spock.
One of the things I learned in a certain Twelve Step program I've worked the steps in for many years is that death is just another part of life, only the final part, and one that comes to everyone at some time or another. There is not much point in being concerned about the how and when of that final moment in this existence. It just wastes energy and brain cycles that can be better spent on other endeavors. While I do have plans for the future, never want to retire, and my fondest wish is to drop dead at my desk at work, I will accept when it's my time to go. I will probably be disappointed in some ways since there are some things I want to do in life, but that's just human.
And since it seems to be obligatory these days, FUCK the BETA, it really is bad.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
To those still smoking and in the grips of marketing induced denial...
It really indicates how stupid the writer thinks everyone else is, that despite an endless barrage of information about the deleterious effects of smoking from family, friends, doctors, news programs, newspapers, magazines, sitcoms, movies, cartoons, graffiti, puppet shows, and government literature that somehow the little indirect marketing (tenuously through movies and TV) somehow overrides our ability to make an actual informed decision.
"Denial" is used as a weaselly way to undermine any volitional behaviour which a writer personally disagrees with, and is then used as a justification for maintaining their belief regardless of claims to the contrary.
Personally, I quit and am happy as hell that I did. That doesn't mean I was unaware of the effects, or romanticized smoking, or didn't enjoy it. I did enjoy it, and immediate gratification seemed a fair trade off for the inevitable future outcome. It was a personal/philosophical value decision, and it was no worse than the position I hold now, it's just not the position I happen to hold any more.
FUCK BETA
E-cigarettes gives you the fast, abundant and finely controlled nicotine intake, with the experience of breathing hot air and satisfying the "nipple sucking" primordial reflex.
They really give everything a cigarette user needs, and are cheap, especially in countries with high taxes on tobacco.. while like 95% of the toxicity just goes away. No more tars and whatever crap.
So, don't hesitate.. Do it immediately!
It's even something of a Star Trek thing. Star Trek had that fake alcohol which makes you drunk without poisoning you : no hangovers (intoxication), passing out (overdose), headache. (crap alcohol does this. Note that by drinking good or decent beer and red wine I can get high alcohol intake without headaches and with less brain damage, but I don't kid myself, it's most probably still harmful)
With the exception of incidents of violence many of which have as much to do with the drugs be expensive and illegal in the first place, and DUI which would still be illegal even if the drugs weren't this is a bs. Drug addicts mostly harm other people who put themselves in harms way.
Your failure to recognize someone who is "out of control" whatever the reason drugs or otherwise isn't good company to keep, makes you at least partly responsible if you come to harm. Life is hazardous if you are in a dangerous situation extricate yourself or accept possible consequences rather than trying to tell others what to do.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I have also seen Leonard Nimoy on the old "Sea Hunt" TV series ( Lloyd Bridges ) and "Highway Patrol" ( Broderick Crawford ). Old black-and-white TV of the 50's and early 60's. I really enjoy those old shows - when it was about acting and not so much special effects. Those old stars are what made Hollywood so special. Even to this day, I enjoy seeing re-runs of *some* of the old 50's shows ( however, I feel most of them were crap - no different from today ).
I just kept getting cognitive dissonance, as they usually had Nimoy playing the bad guy... and all the time I kept seeing him as Spock. Star Trek was by far my favorite TV series of all time.
My condolences to him and his family. His acting career brought a lot of us into technological interests. The only person that ranked beside Leonard in my book was James Doohan ( Engineer Montgomery Scott ).
Both were role models to me.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Not only will there be fewer stupid comments when these guru types leave... there will also be fewer of the gems these guys also leave. If I wanted social chitchat - I would go to facebook. Try asking a technical question over there.
It will be a lot easier to destroy Slashdot than it was to build it. I just really hate to see it go. I just lost my other favorite site, TheOilDrum, not too long ago. Sure, there are other similar sites, but they are not the same. It was like having my favorite watering hole burn down.
There is only one Slashdotter I know personally, the rest of you I only know by your presence here, yet in a way I feel I am among peers and friends here. You have been very generous to help me when I had problems, as well as give me sanity checks when I go overboard. I do not want to see this go away.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Logic is a path to follow in order to reach a predefined purpose.
Smoking can't be illogical per se. Facts cannot be illogical and indeed, people do smoke.
Now, here, in declaring that smoking is illogical, the contemporary capitalistic dominant value system is implied, defining as purpose the 'long live (and be productive...)' doctrine. But if somebody takes pleasure in smoking and the purpose he has define for his life is to dive in pleasures, then smoking is perfectly logical. The possibility of cancer is the price he accepts to pay in order to maintain his values and purposes.
That being said, people who impose their smoke on others are antisocial moronic douchebags.
So does sugar and fat, since YOUR eating might hurt MY wallet when you can't afford healthcare so from now on you will ONLY eat what we approve of.
Its for your own good citizen.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
That's something Spock would say to Uhura. You know, "singing is illogical", "fun is illogical", "kissing is illogical", "sex is illogical". Many things we humans like to do are "illogical", but we generally do them anyway, often because they are enjoyable, and sometimes because a lot of illogical risk taking propels humanity along as a whole.
There are many things that shorten you life, and at age 82, Nimoy really can't complain about his life span. I think a better reason to quit smoking isn't necessarily health, it's that it's a dirty and smelly habit that gets in the way of other fun-but-illogical activities, like kissing.
The odds of a smoker getting lung cancer is about 12%.
The odds of a smoker getting one of any number of serious lung diseases is a bit over 50%.
#DeleteChrome
I think implied in Nimoy's statement is the goal of "live long and prosper" as the primary purpose in life, and from that point of view, smoking is illogical. If you adopt the "have fun and don't worry" purpose, smoking is not illogical.
You people can't make up your minds, can you? At times you condemn the "contemporary capitalistic dominant value system" as hedonistic, materialistic, and consumption oriented; and now you condemn it for causing people to be long-term focused health nuts.
FWIW, in my experience with both systems, capitalism wants you to have fun, while socialism and communism try to force you to be productive in various ways and prevent you from enjoying illogical things. Both, however, prefer you drop dead right after retirement.
Most non smokers are still subjected to passive smoking, which can also cause lung cancer... Even if your grandfather never smoked, how much time did he spend inhaling smoke produced by others?
That's actually the reason so many of us have a problem with smoking. We don't care what substances you want to consume as thats your choice, but by smoking in public you are taking away our choice not to.
It also seems utterly ridiculous to send most of it up into the air, there are far more efficient ways to consume drugs which don't impose on those around you.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Leonard Nimoy is probably one of the most influental actors the last century. He may not have intended to be, but that's how things are - you can't control every aspect of your life - accept what you have become. As a person that have a rather iconic status he can reach more people than many others. He has at least not abused his position in life given by his characterization of Spock, which means that people will listen when he do say something.
The sad thing here is that the chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) is a very slow and agonizing thing to experience - you know that you eventually will die from it. Cancer is another high risk for smokers. Of course people can die from lung cancer or COPD anyway - but smoking increases the risk considerably. Be it passive smoking or active - it increases the risk.
I'd rather die quickly than have a slow agonizing death.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
It has been at least suspected that smoking caused cancer for about one hundred years, now.
It has been widely known, including the Surgeons General warning, for at least fifty years.
I am long past the point of having any concern for people who can't kick the smoking habit or are ill from it (other than simple human sympathy for anyone suffering, of course). Unless you are at least 70 years old, today, there is no excuse for you to have any real smoking problems. You know it is going to kill you, today. You knew it would kill you, when you started. We are almost to the point where anyone with even the slightest "well, I didn't know back then" excuse for smoking is dead.
Anyway, this is sad news. I know that Nimoy is in his 80s. I know he has lived a full life. However, I have been dreading his passing. As many people my age likely have, I've a mental list of older guys whose passing I'm sure to be alive for and who are going to really gut me. He's one of the guys on that list.
It's your life - but the denial is strong:
.. but to me smoking is packaged slow-death; coated in a level addiction that makes you tell yourself: I don't want to give this up.
- Your excuse: Smoking causes lung cancer.. -but- you can get lung cancer without smoking.. therefore I might as well smoke. (Staying on topic: It's illogical).
- Your complaint about the post - Translation: Please don't make me feel worse about it, than I already am.
I have my own patterns I try to break..
What's worse, the slow death or the fact that it makes you lie to yourself?
- Mad, ingenous - they've both left you puzzled -
I agree
" But as TFA shows the sad thing is you WILL get COPD, doesn't matter how long ago you quit as you WILL get it if something else don't get you first. So if you are quitting do it because you don't want to be smelling like smoke or be out of breath, because if you have smoked more than a couple of years you might as well accept COPD is in your future regardless."
Negative thinking is a large part of what causes the addiction to be so difficult to break. Beat me it feels good syndrome. IT IS NOT true that you are doomed even if you quit. Also the only attitude to take is that you will be tempted for the rest of your life to smoke. The difference is that you need to make a habit out of not smoking. Don't get all sweated up there is no doubt that in the first week after quitting it will be difficult, such is the nature of the drug. Another misconception about tobacco is the fact that it calms your nerves. THE BULLSHIT fact is that it is essentially a speed ball concoction, at first the carbon monoxide brings you down as does the reduction of 02 in your blood stream. Yes it calms your nerves and the nicotine acts initially as a sedative as well, but the fact is that then after about 4 minutes it actually increases your heart rate and in reality nicotine is a form of speed as well. Most people are not aware of these facts and think that they are actually settling their nerves by havin' a butt. BUT IT IS A LIE, and you fool yourself into believing the soothing tones of the Marlboro Man lighting up on horseback.
Remember dada, dada dada, --dada, dada dada. As Yule Brynner rides off into the sunset. The tobacco companies up in Canada actually own part of one of the largest drug store chains, they did not suffer, but their victims do every day.
DON'T GIVE UP THE FIGHT and roll over and play dead, it can be beaten. Besides the more you try to quit the more you will learn how not to smoke and also reduce the insult to your body. But don't be negative to others about quitting it is just plain wrong and I am sure Mr. Spock and even the Marlboro man would agree.
This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
Smoking does harm to anyone who's physically close enough to inhale the fumes...
At least someone who's injecting heroin, snorting cocaine or taking pills etc doesn't directly harm anyone by such actions.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Your 'can't make up your minds' statement makes it appear as if the "contemporary capitalistic dominant value system" can't be at the same time hedonistic, materialistic, and consumption oriented AND making people 'long-term focused health nuts'. At the very least, obsessing with your health makes you buy a shitload of diet complements and fantasize that all the problems caused to your body by stress will be relieved, leaving you free to enjoy life. I'm not the one to be held accountable for the inherent capitalism contradictions.
As I'm not a communist either, I will sure agree that it forces you to be productive, but it would be missing the elephant in the room if you denied that also capitalism forces you to be productive. Although the nature of 'forcing' changes a little: In the one case you are forced with real force, where in the other case you are pointed to the cheese in the mousetrap, which is the wealth that one person out of 1000 achieves through capitalism.
What about Europeans and people from other parts of the world where tobacco products can't be marketed, cigarettes and nicotine products have to be hidden from view? People still smoke, people still start smoking. No marketing happening to them though. All the current evidence suggests that hiding tobacco products and banning smoking in certain places is not stopping people smoke nor reducing the number of new smokers.
Besides, what ever happened to people doing what they enjoy? Some smokers do feel trapped sadly, but not all. Many do it because they enjoy it.
While it is true that drug addicts may harm other people, merely taking drugs does not harm other people. If they do go on to harm other people, then go after them for *that*, not for taking drugs.
This is why most drugs are illegal
Want to know why they're illegal? Because of people like you who despise freedom and enjoy surrendering it if you believe you'll obtain more safety. Hopefully you enjoy getting molested at airports, because people with your mentality are to blame for that.
Thank you Dave Raggett
It really indicates how stupid the writer thinks everyone else is
Not everyone is stupid, but the number of people who are even remotely intelligent is absolutely minuscule.
Thank you Dave Raggett
Uhhh...you didn't actually READ my post before you ran full speed to that soapbox, did you? Gotta give you credit it WAS an epic rant. Except...I quit 3 months ago, so all the "Don't give up!" crap? Kinda pointless.
And its not being "negative" to face reality, unless you consider somebody with 2 broken legs as being "negative" when they point out they can't walk. anybody who tells you that your body "will magically heal itself" after years of abuse? Blowing smoke up the wrong end, and I don't care WHAT you were abusing, be it drugs or booze or smokes. the body is capable of fixing a lot of things but its not invulnerable and its been proven repeatedly that as little as 3 years of smoking is enough to do permanent damage that all the "you can do it!" lectures in the world won't fix.
Still props on an epic rant, I'll be sure to blow some smoke rings with this ecig in your honor. Oh and yes I know I've just switched from one to the other but without my nicotine I'm a right bastard and would rather not throw away my current relationship, thanks.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Also enjoying smoking is worse than addiction in many ways...
Enjoying something which knowingly harms others is abhorrent, while enjoying something which you know is harmful basically amounts to self harm - and people get put in mental hospitals for this.
OK, enough of this personal attack already. Damn, I'm not even a smoker, and I'm offended at your line of reasoning that smoking runs along the lines of "self harm", leading to mental hospitals.
If anything, mental hospitals should be targeting the ignorant and stupid. Society would be far better off.
As far as your fucking self-harm comment, I can walk down the city street and induce self-harm simply by breathing the heavily polluted air.
By the way, I hope you're "enjoying" your computer. The 17-year old Chinese kid who worked 20 hours that day assembling them I'm sure appreciates your "abhorrent" behavior.
Zombies of the Stratosphere.
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
That's right! Blame the victim.
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
The problem with smoking is it doesn't just shorten your life, it can make your life miserable.
Imagine how horrific it is to be SICK all the time, gasping for breath, always wondering if tomorrow will be your last and almost hoping so because living with a with pain, sickness and a struggle for breath is just so awful.
Smoking not only causes you to die, it causes you to die horribly in a lot of cases.
--PM
There is no "contradiction". Liberty means you have the freedom to make poor choices, and the wealth created by capitalism means you can indulge in those poor choices. But the poor choices you make are yours, nobody else's. Capitalism and advertising don't force you to make poor choices.
In fact, if you really "obsess with your health", you don't buy any of that crap, you buy the cheap and healthy foods that cost less than ever before, and you save tons of money too.
Capitalism doesn't force you to do anything. You can work half time on some low-end job and still live better than most of the rest of the world, or the way most people did a century ago. The reason you feel "forced" is because of greed, gluttony, and envy.
That's not being "forced", that is simply you giving in to your greed. Greed, envy, gluttony, and all those other vices were recognized human failings long before capitalism even existed. Again, if you give in to your vices and bad impulses, capitalism will carry you all the way to hell in a comfortable Lexus. Under less capable economic systems, you'd simply not have the option of indulging your vices, but that's hardly preferable.
So let me get this straight: you , one person, have "health issues". Then you bitch about how it was easier to avoid smoke just by not going to bars that allow smoking. Not only that but you then have the temerity to bitch that people are smoking outside of the bars now - the situation you and all the other morons who can't think ahead wanted when you took the choice away from the owners of the establishments - and you want society to conform to your "needs".
Not only that, but you admit that "any smoke" causes the same affects, maybe we should outlaw campfires, cooking with oil, any types of fireworks and hell while we are in denial stupid outlaw land make a law against forest fires.
That's akin to me saying that seeing someone not smoking makes me depressed - we should have a law requiring everyone to have a cigarette / cigar / pipe so I don't get depressed and maybe think about killing myself...
TL:DR - Go up and slap some sense into your idiot lawmakers that take the choice to allow / disallow smoking in the establishments they own from said owners, because believe me, smokers don't want to have to go outside and listen to all the whiners walk past.
To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
What he said...
Perhaps if drugs were legal and treated like tobacco and alcohol, they wouldn't be so expensive and hard to get and there wouldn't be as much need for that kind of crime...
Why do my comments disappear after I hit submit for them? I scroll down and can't find them. I finally did several more comment loads and found what I posted. At least with the original site I saw my post appear in the comment section.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Well, you took away our choice. When we could still smoke in bars you very rarely saw anyone smoking on the street, and the streets remained cleaner since the bars / ETC. had ashtrays all over. Do you think the people smoking outside want to be standing in the cold / rain / heat / snow?
You also took away the establishment owners choice, if you really didn't agree with smoking you should have done it the capitalist way, take your business to a place that CHOSE to not allow smoking. You did not do that, you chose the dictatorial way, just telling everyone who disagreed with they are wrong, that you knew better than them, and that they aren't allowed to live and or run their business as they want.
To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
If this is the average quality of future stories, I don't need a beta to keep me away.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Wait, they are Borg? That means, resistance is futile?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Looks like some moderators are participating in the protests by modding on topic comments "offtopic".
As to quitting smoking, it depends on your genes and when you quit. My mother and her husband quit 30 years ago when he developed emphysema, he died from pretty much all his organs shutting down last year, Mom's only now starting to get COPD at age 85, but all but three of her twelve siblings are alive and in their nineties.
Generally, though, they say if you quit before you're 40, by the time you're 50 your lungs will be as healthy as a 50 year old who never smoked. And the more you smoke, the more damage there is to the lungs.
If I get COPD it will probably be from reefer, all smoke is bad for your lungs. But at least pot doesn't cause cancer.
Free Martian Whores!
Everyone thinks of lung cancer and COPD/Emphysema. I work as an anesthesiologist and I can tell you one of the biggest problems smokers get is disease of the arteries. They get heart attacks because of blocked coronary arteries. They get strokes because of blocked carotid arteries. They get peripheral vascular disease (PVD) which means legs that become painful when walking due to lack of oxygenated blood. Combine smoking with diabetes and you are guaranteed to have vascular problems in life! So don't imagine coughing up blood and dying of lung cancer, don't imagine COPD and needing oxygen to slowly walk 100 feet. Think of blocked arteries to the brain and strokes, think of blocked arteries to the feet and gangrenous toes, think of blocked coronary arteries and getting your chest sawed open to bypass them. Think of blocked arteries to the penis and (Sorry I can't even bear to think of this!) Smoking is bad mm'kay
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Whereas you technically are right, you underestimate the force of the social paradigm. Of course, you are 'free' to act otherwise, but then if that was practiced by the majority, capitalism would collapse. Because it is an economic system which capitalizes on the vices you mentioned.
It says right there in the first sentence that he stopped smoking 30 years ago. I guess some people got swept away by their righteous smugness.
You're right about my error with the definition and I'm no physician so I'll defer. But it was certainly a death sentence in my family. Still, if survival is possible I wouldn't wish death on anyone who suffers from it to prove my point.
It was bad. He became dependent on prednisone and inhalers to breath. And, well, if you've ever seen bloating and weight gain from prednisone you'd know what he went through. And the prednisone caused secondary infections from impaired immune function. He was dependent on an oxygen concentrator, which required bottled oxygen to be available in the event of a power failure. And a trip to the ER if the bottle emptied.
He described COPD as like downing in slow motion.
Any doc whose seen this before would know the story.
Anyway, of course, none of this I'd wish on Nimoy or anyone else.
But as TFA shows the sad thing is you WILL get COPD, doesn't matter how long ago you quit as you WILL get it if something else don't get you first. So if you are quitting do it because you don't want to be smelling like smoke or be out of breath, because if you have smoked more than a couple of years you might as well accept COPD is in your future regardless.
I don't know about that.. I smoked in my early 20s, during the 8 years I was in the Army, and for about 2 years after I got out, for a total of about 10 years. One day, I reached into my shirt pocket, by habit, to grab a cigarette, and I had an epiphany.. I asked myself.. "WTF are you doing to yourself???" I wadded the nearly full pack up and threw it away.. All of my friends smoked heavily and when I told them "I QUIT!", they laughed and said "nah, you'll be back..." .. Well, here I am, 40+ years later, and I've not had another cigarette since... Thanks to the "cold turkey". In fact, the smell of burning tabacco so revolts me, I get sick to my stomach when I have to negotiate the flocks of smokers puffing away outside many stores/coffee shops today.. In my last physical, last year, nothing about any COPD or emphysyma or .. (shudder) cancer... Guess I'm the exception...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
You mean the device was engineered to meet written functional requirements?
There's a difference.
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
But as TFA shows the sad thing is you WILL get COPD, doesn't matter how long ago you quit as you WILL get it if something else don't get you first. So if you are quitting do it because you don't want to be smelling like smoke or be out of breath, because if you have smoked more than a couple of years you might as well accept COPD is in your future regardless.
Yes, COPD is a serious disorder, but my concern with labeling it as inevitable (or worse, labeling it "terminal") is that it isn't universally true and it may cause people to avoid treatments or courses of action that might help their quality/quantity of life.
For anyone reading this at risk for COPD, read this. Lung function decline varies widely in COPD, and in many cases COPD may not progress at all. However, left untreated (or worse, if people believe that it doesn't matter if they continue to smoke once diagnosed) then the outcomes will be worse.
People can live for decades with high quality of life after a COPD diagnosis. Yes, COPD can be terminal, but it is much more likely to be so if you give up.
If someone is a former smoker, consider this to be encouragement to exercise *now* to improve your cardiovascular health. Even if you do develop COPD in the future, you will have built up a reserve of better than average lung function. Also, note that high BMI (obesity) is the strongest predictor of rapid lung function decline in COPD, so... draw the obvious conclusion.
The 1997 layout didn't even have threaded commenting.
Hairy, admit to yourself that you have not quit consuming nicotine. If anything you have moved on to the pure drug. Hardly a progressive step.
Your positive future involves the word QUIT. Your negative future involves that river in Egypt.
Someone tries to support you, you call it a rant, and totally miss what they are saying. Epic indeed.
I come here for the love
Quit smoking if you care at all about the risks of illness and disability that smoking causes. Or accept that you are a nicotine junkie and that you are lying to yourself about your habit because you can't face withdrawal.
Or, start using electronic cigarettes. You can keep the enjoyment of nicotine, (which is not harmful), without inhaling smoke, (which is harmful). If you really enjoy tobacco, there are other forms of tobacco that are much, much less harmful and better tasting: cigars, pipe smoking, and snus or chew. And they are far less harmful because you're not inhaling huge clouds of smoke into your lungs, all day, everyday. Pipe smokers, for instance, have the same mortality rate as non-smokers. Oh, those warnings that say these other tobacco products aren't safer alternatives to cigarettes? The government lies to us sometimes.
-- sudon't
Air-ride Equipped
Over the long term, it is certain that everyone, unless they meet with an accident or one of the less common diseases, will die of cancer, heart attack, or stroke. You will not die of old age. Choosing not to smoke may delay the inevitable, but will not prevent it.
-- sudon't
Air-ride Equipped
If you want to save your lungs, you should try a vaporizer instead of reefers - more efficient use of material and virtually no particulate matter to cause damage. Takes a bit of getting used to, though as the hit is quite different.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
I quit drinking, started smoking - five years ago. I'm 32 now - I don't know anyone who had started smoking so late, as in not one cigarette before.
You gotta manage your vices and people should have the freedom to so. I'll stop smoking when/if I get married. your friend started smoking at 12 and THAT'S PRETTY FUCKED UP.
And if I drank, my body would get totally fucked up and I'd be lucky to survive to 40 as a wreck.
and you want to know who benefits most from the strict tobacco advertisement rules? fucking big tobacco of course. you can't even show the packs in the shops anymore so you cannot ask for some new brand, people just buy the brand they bought last week or what someone they know smoked. so the established tobacco brands are really the big winners, since there can not be a new camel or marlboro anymore since you can't tell people that hey I'm producing this new tobacco brand.
Furthermore, nobody would smoke just to look cool, I mean fucking nobody would do that for longer than one night. it's the nicotine and co2 man - it works, it's just not marketing bullshit. maybe leonard would have spat on shatners face many times if he hadn't smoked.
but why smoke tobacco? it makes easier to get on with life. better than popping pills too.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
He was in Futurama.
photosMy Photostream
Let's hope that his level of COPD is something he can live with comfortably. If not help may be on the way as medical breakthroughs seem to be increasing in effectiveness for those with enough money to get the best care. Entertainers can be real life savers as people who are suffering often survive due to some pleasant entertainment while they wait to heal. We owe these people a lot more than most people realize.
He is a musician.
Or, start using electronic cigarettes
Electronic cigarettes are about a million times better than the regular kind. However isn't it better not to be chemically dependent and to not suffer the mood swings and chronic withdrawal pains?
I see plenty of smokers. They don't enjoy smoking, they enjoy being without the withdrawal symptoms for a short while.
My mother died of COPD related effects. The last week of her life, she was in the hospital on a breathing machine. The thing that really got me was that every single one of the nurses/technicians who worked in the pulmonary ward would go out every hour for a smoke. They see the endgame every single day, and they still choose to light up.
Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress
I love the beta, it lets me hide all of your whining, bitchy comments about beta.
I have also seen Leonard Nimoy on the old "Sea Hunt" TV series ( Lloyd Bridges ) and "Highway Patrol" ( Broderick Crawford ). Old black-and-white TV of the 50's and early 60's. I really enjoy those old shows - when it was about acting and not so much special effects. Those old stars are what made Hollywood so special. Even to this day, I enjoy seeing re-runs of *some* of the old 50's shows ( however, I feel most of them were crap - no different from today ). I just kept getting cognitive dissonance, as they usually had Nimoy playing the bad guy... and all the time I kept seeing him as Spock. Star Trek was by far my favorite TV series of all time. My condolences to him and his family. His acting career brought a lot of us into technological interests. The only person that ranked beside Leonard in my book was James Doohan ( Engineer Montgomery Scott ). Both were role models to me.
He doesn't have CANCER. He has COPD. My father has it as well as a few other elderly folks I know. It is painful to watch them struggle to take a breath when that condition flares up....
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
This isn't a direct quote from Nimoy. It's insulting.
Anyone who has ever smoked knows the true grips of nicotine addiction.
Nimoy was a long time smoker. Don't wait to quit. Get help. Most states offer free cessation aids including gum and patches.
Off topic: /., please ban the beta spammers. I'm totally ok with you blocking entire IP blocks to accomplish this until things quiet down. Let the ignorant bandwagon jumpers whine about censorship. It's petty and wrong that the rest of us suffer.
Sorry, but that's complete bullshit. Capitalism (by which I mean free market economies with free movement of capital) is value neutral, it just efficiently supplies what people want, whether it's diet products, bloody movies, hookers, space travel, or a clean environment. Capitalism won't "collapse" if people all of a sudden reduce their consumption or start investing in socially more valuable pursuits. Capitalism is holding up a mirror to society, and you apparently don't like what you see.
Personally I think, not only are you wrongly blaming the engine for where the driver is taking the car, you also underestimate how vicious, intolerant, selfish, and greedy people used to be; our society has become much better over the last century. And the more free market a society has been, the more progress it has made on social and environmental issues.
This is true of for every human and for every possible cause of death. Something will get you, sooner or later. However, quitting smoking decreases the odds of it being "COPD" and "sooner".
Think of it this way: Slashdot is going to die one day. Does that mean it should simply go ahead and switch to Beta?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
No, he mostly wasn't in Futurama, just his perserved head
so he smoked into his 50s
he now has a disease common to people who smoke most of their lives
very likely his smoking caused his problem, it's a near certainty
I think it's a mtter of 'you reap what you sow'.
The Dice folks felt that the majority of the readers don't comment, so comments aren't that important.
What they failed to recognize is that the commenters are the community that drove the site all these years.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
good enough for me.
photosMy Photostream
So Slashdot's beta is addictive? I don't think so...
That is all.
Takeaway from that article - you may lucky if you are a Japanese ex-smoker non-progressor. I tell my patients that lung function declines with age regardless of smoking history, however the decline is faster in active smokers. (Yes I am a pulmonary/critical care doctor IRL)
Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
You're always gonna be dependent on *some* chemicals, whether you like it or not. The important part is just knowing which ones you actually are dependent upon. Don't fool yourself into thinking that gluten or caffeine are any less addictive or any better for you in the long run than nicotine.
What's worse, the slow death or the fact that it makes you lie to yourself?
I choose to smoke and I'm aware its bad for me. There is no denial... I also choose to have a good diet and exercise - why? Death rates for obese people are climbing. You are less likely to be obese if you're a smoker, and nicotine improves memory.
Considering that ~65% of the American population is overweight or obese, you don't need to be a genius to figure out those fat fucks will start dropping like flies in the next 20 years. I'll take my chances with smoking thanks....How about we get celebrities saying "Hey you fatass trekky - stuffing your face with sugary processed food is illogical" or "not exercising is illogical"
Furthermore, Nimoy never said "Smoking Is Illogical" on Twitter and it wasn't referenced in the news article.
This isn't news, it some anti-smokers opinion. If I want opinions I will read Fox News...
I'm not signing anything
Let's imagine we are referring to someone addicted to ethanol.
This person proudly announces they have moved to pure ethanol gelcaps.
Need I continue?
I come here for the love
Second hand smoke is extremely harmful, the smoker has a filter but those nearby don't...
And i explicitly said "directly harm"... someone sitting in front of me injecting heroin or snorting coke isn't having any immediate effect on me. If he later goes and robs someone because he's desperate for more drugs that's an indirect side effect, and while addiction to drugs is certainly a cause of crime there are other causes too.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Why don't you offer feeback on the changes? I did, and next thing I see is those exact issues being acknowledged. Now that there is a proper news article to comment on, I do not see how disrupting unrelated articles is in any way useful. Quite the contrary.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
... live longer and prosper.
licet differant, aequabitur
The drama is most people who give up with an "aid" fall back to smoking within the first six months.
You definitely get a benefit from switching from cigarettes to ecigs, but you're not quit, and if you did quit it would be just as bad as from cigarettes. I've seen similar reports of people that had their doctors tell them they should consider their nicotine replacement therapy life-long medication.
I didn't use any aids this attempt purely on the basis that I've found they're replacement and have no effect on the eventual cessation at the end of their use, so I got that hellscape out of the way immediately instead of in a few months time.
I wasn't nearly as cranky as I thought I would be, I'm usually crankier on the aids... and 12 months in I don't feel like a smoker any more, albeit I still occasionally want one, but it's mostly when the topic is discussed like now ;)
If it helps at all.. what I found was that the craving for nicotine had replaced all other cravings, so when I was tired I'd think I wanted a smoke, and when I was really tired I'd chain smoke. I think most smokers would resemble that remark... the food/drink triggers are more subtle, but the "it's late, I really need a smoke, so I guess I'll go to the store at 2am" shit is really obvious.
Nimoy didn't get lung cancer, he got COPD.
Smoking does heavily increase your chance of getting lung cancer but it's not the sole cause of it. Smoking does make you far more likely to suffer from one or more of a very large array of nasty illnesses during your lifetime. It also reduces your life span significantly.
This, a lot of people dont get the difference between the cause (should really be called the trigger) and the main contributing factor.
/. car analogy, the cause of the crash was the driver lost control, the main contributing factor was that the driver was drunk.
To fall back on the good old
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Mr Data - the original Real Doll TM
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
Have you been standing downwind form smokers - that's a serious cough you have there...
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
Exactly! Why would Slashdot ever carry a story about Leonard Nimoy? Wasn't he in some westerns, like Gunsmoke and The Virginian? Anything else that we should know about? Did he ever travel? Any famous treks to relate that nerds would care about?
Well, he was a TV star. So when he was trekking around the Wild West doing those westerns you list, I suppose we could say he was a star trekking.
I am anarch of all I survey.
I don't become "cranky" I become the most cold blooded vicious son of a bitch you ever met, more than happy to tell you why your very existence is a waste and the world would be better of without you in it...what do you think happened to my last long term relationship? She begged and begged me to quit..well she got her wish, she left in tears after just 3 weeks of attempting to be around me.
Thanks to nicotine my senses stay a little dulled and that is a good thing, trust me. Even my own mother, who has COPD and begged me to quit when she did? Left a carton of smokes on my doorstep after being around me for 2 weeks without. Some people get cranky, you get cranky, I become bloodthirsy, vindictive, and will happily tear you a new asshole, BIG difference.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Fair enough, NRT sounds a better long term strategy then.
I only discovered I was capable of quitting because the government started to get stupid about the amount of tax they wanted to punish 15-20% of the community with since it's a nice elastic market and they could pretend it was a health initiative.
As an aside; however, they've finally managed to find the elastic point for a lot of people, either quitting or buying chop-chop. They upped the tax 25% in 2010 and got a 19% increase in revenues, then put it up again and got a 19% reduction in revenues. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that wasn't 30% of the smokers quitting...
Don't be surprised when they become angry or even violent around you because that is raw simplistic natural tendencies.
Not that I disagree with your overall point, but violence is no solution. That only shows they're mere barbarians.
Thank you Dave Raggett
A highlight of the Paramount tour was to pass by the Star Trek stages (not that you would ever see them). We happened to pass by during a film break. And many of our favorite actors were puffing away just outside.
Sarek was already a mature adult when he became first Federation Ambassador in the 22nd century. And he died two centuries later in the 24th century in a Next Generation episode.
Hopefully Spocks human genes dotn shorted his life too much.
Or, start using electronic cigarettes. You can keep the enjoyment of nicotine, (which is not harmful), without inhaling smoke, (which is harmful).
Not true. Nicotine is a vasoconstrictive agent, and that can often be harmful. In some people/situations, it could also be therapeutic.
While it is true that vapers do not inhale smoke, research has been showing much higher levels of nicotine in vapers than smokers. I am not an MD, and this is not my field, but I would expect vaping to be much more harmful in some circumstances.
I would argue that vapers simply enjoy inhaling, and don't particularly care about the nicotine. I would advise them to switch to 0% nicotine juice until the long-term health impacts are fully understood.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
I did, in topics about beta, and I emailed them. I'd be fine with beta if I could ignore it, but the problem is they're running full speed ahead with getting rid of classic.
Just tried to get to the altslashdot site, got a 404.
Free Martian Whores!
As we said a few days ago, we're slowing down the rollout. And we aren't "getting rid of" the classic site any time soon.
That's because not lighting up doesn't prevent the endgame. My partner's Father, a fit and healthy man who never smoked a day in his life, died of cancer. What can you do? You're going to go from something, and not smoking is no guarantee that what you go of won't be extremely unpleasant.
Thank you for that. I'm hopeful you guys will fix it.
Free Martian Whores!
I would if I knew where to get hash oil. My friend's son had one, I quite liked it but he has trouble getting oil, and he's in the St Louis area, Springfield's only 110k people.
And there's the legal angle, here in town it's like a traffic ticket, not even a misdemeanor for small amounts. They're a lot harder on hash.
Free Martian Whores!
The sky is blue. More at 5 o' clock from your local news leader.
A decent vaporizer can handle hash or grass. I recommend the Arizer Solo - it's not cheap, but pays for itself over time through more efficient usage (and no tobacco if that's how you make reefers).
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Thanks, I'll try that. As to tobacco, I never did like blunts.
Free Martian Whores!
I just LOVE when stupid people use a stupid argument. If the smoke has already run through a filter on a cigarette, then it has already been filtered. Geez, man... grow a brain before posting. Plus, it has actually been filtered a second time, by being run through a set of lungs that have removed even more of the contaminants.