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MtGox Finds 200,000 Bitcoins In Old Wallet
thesandbender writes: "Today brings news that MtGox has 'found' 200,000 Bitcoins in a 'forgotten' wallet that they thought was empty (PDF). The value of the coins is estimated to be $116 million USD, which happens to cover their $64 million USD in outstanding debts nicely and might offer them the chance to emerge from bankruptcy. There is no explanation yet of why the sneaky thieves that 'stole' the bitcoins used a MtGox wallet to hide them."
It's amazing how they "found" these... I would have thought that computers would make it impossible to "lose" such funds - even with the most simplistic of accounting programs. The more I hear, the more it sounds like something else is going on (like the principles of Mt Gox trying to run off with as many BitCoins as they can). It's like watching a soap opera.
StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
Oh, look what's this. These aren't the embezzled coins you're looking for.
How much of that bundle is theirs and how much of that bundle is the users'? Can't just go around spending anybody's money.
Steal from Peter to pay Paul...it works for the USG, right?
Yes guys we just found it. It was just in my back pocket. No idea how it got there...
ooops, here they are
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Wow, wasn't that lucky?!
Oh I know how that is. The other day I put on one of my old winter coats from years ago and found 500,000 bitcoins in the pocket. It was completely unexpected. I used it to buy a pizza.
Thieves often place stolen goods nearby so they can retrieve them later
I could argue that the system probably was setup to save lost bitcoins into a wallet.
The CEO may not have known about it, as the programmers, probably felt that such an error could happen, so there was a mechanism to deal with it.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I just love it when I stumble across $116 million in the back pocket of my jeans when doing laundry.
While it's seems convenient and sketchy to magically find money after it was stolen, is it possible that MtGox is just that incompetent?
No beer and no TV make Homer something something
BitCoins remind me of bongs, etc. with stickers on them that say "for novelty use only."
They never claimed it was a currently, only that you could use it as one... you know, could, if you chose to and took on the risk yourself.
There's a reason people developed backing behind currencies. Do I hate modern society/government (same thing)? Yes, more than any of you. But making businesses to replace it isn't the solution.
Futurist Traditionalism
runs the place.
If you didn't know he was going to rob you just by looking at him, you deserved it.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
They have the lying skills of a twelve year old.
A winner is you!
slashdot has become so lol and lagging. These 200k btc went through the mtgox api two weeks ago and there was numerous posts about it on /r/Bitcoin and bitcointalk at that time. Look forward to the breaking news that China announced new stricter Bitcoin regulation today at slashdot in a month or so.
I'm going to check behind the fridge and under the couch.
I hear someone's lost an airliner.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
As Falkvinge says, this looks like a copycat fraud.
In one of the first major bitcoin scams, mybitcoin com in 2011, the owner also said hackers took everything and "luckily" recovered a percentage of the funds some weeks later. This is a classic con man move, called cooling the mark out. You're supposed to accept that you were stupid, take your losses and go home, rather than pursue the scammers for the rest.
This looks like they were just incompetent and stupid rather than evil. Still, their credibility is now zero.
"It was an inside job, Like it always is, Chalk it up, To business as usual..." -- Don Henley
...that news like that keeps surfacing every time someone "stumble" over their lost & found bitcoin-collection. Remember the Norwegian guy who forgot that he bought some bitcoins many years ago, and all of a sudden was a millionaire (just to see his bitcoin value drop to HALF the value the next month or so?)
Bitcoin is a perfect example of how easy it is to create something out of virtually nothing. It's essentially bits & bytes with a digitally encrypted keylock, it's nothing physical, most governments won't even recognize it as a currency, at best - it's a shady way of transferring money anonymously.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Now they're just waiting for Milton to destroy all the evidence in an arson attack, then they're in the clear!
Worst. Signature. Ever.
Forgotten wallet my ass.
When they realized there was no way they would ever get away with stealing so many bitcoins and having a huge debt, MtGox "found" enough to cover their debts.
The account holders are still fucked, though. Why anyone would use bitcoin at this point is beyond me.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
If you copy my wallet (cloudy or cold) and know the decryption password or whatever, presumably I still have it as well, since it's just digital data.
So it is a race to see who spends them first I guess, me, if I discover the "theft" quickly, or you right after you access the data.
Or I guess you could copy the coins data then do a secure wipe on my storage including my backups. That seems implausible if I have a decent backups policy.
Anyone know what "stealing" bit coins from MtGox actually meant in this case?
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
"There is no explanation yet of why the sneaky thieves that 'stole' the bitcoins used a MtGox wallet to hide them."
Sure there is. The explanation is the whole thing is a huge swindle.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
Does that mean gods are with MtGox and we should care for our Things That Get Stuck in Drawers ?
It was somebody like the CEO of MT GOX itself?
And if it looked like their goose was cooked they could then discover and pay back the cash hoping against punishment if no proof was found.
Consider, What does it mean for a bitcoin to be lost or to be found or to exist. To be "lost" it means no one no longer knows the bitcoin's key. Yet you can also have more than one copy of the key. For example MagicTux might have "stolen" the coin (that is, transfered a coin to a key, deleted that key from the mtGox data base ("oopsie") but secretly kept a copy of the key somewhere else. But then suppose that not all copies of the key were deleted. Both the "found" key and the one lurking in MagicTux's hideout are the same valid key. Either one can spend the coin.
Thus there is not one copy of the coin to be found. there could be many.
If you give someone control of your wallet, so that they know your keys, you can never get back that control. They can always keep copies of it and have the authrority to spend. THe only way to recover control is to make a new key and transfer the coins to that. Thus these exchanges that manage your coins are scary.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I knew it! That fat fuck was lying to us!
Karpeles: Sorry guys, we lost em'! *insider trading* Oh look, we found them! Their value has been restored! (Also, I'm rich)
Do they really not realize that this is actually way scarier than simply saying that they were hiding this wallet all along?
We're talking about BitCoin, not LeafCoin or PotCoin.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Hi, I'm Fred! I have a bank. Got 50 BTC? I'll keep it, er, right here on my smartphone, right here in my vest pocket, don't worry about it..
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Or am I watching Office Space again?
Ever since I did that relaxation therapy I really can't tell anymore and don't particularly care either.
What'sss it got in itsss walletsesss, Preciousss?
s/parentheses/parenthesis/
You seem to be a bit confused. The problems are with MTGox, not with bitcoin itself. Also, aren't the majority of big drug deals conducted in US dollars? AFAIK, bitcoins are only used for relatively small amounts - the shipping containers full of contraband are paid for with real-world currencies.
Also, I'd have to question the logic of only judging a service/product based on its origin, not on its suitability for your needs. You realise that bubble-wrap was first sold as wallpaper, yet I bet you're fine with using it to protect items in transit.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
...what this means in meaningful terms. Does it mean I get to actually withdraw the single bitcoin that I had tried to exchange at MtGox? Probably not, right?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Holy crap, anyone that is using bitcoin for anything but their illegal money laundering is insane.
"oops we forgot about this" is 100% lies and bullshit. They might as well start talking with a thick new jersey accent and ask if they need to send Big Tony over to talk about if legs need to be broken or not.
fagetaboutit!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Wallpaper? Really? Now I have the image of a 1970s-era 'Space Age' apartment papered with bubble wrap burned into my brain.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Now imagine yourself bouncing off the walls trying to pop all the bubbles with a big cheesy grin across your face!
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
MtGOX are a class act all right.
Let's see, the head of Mt. Gox unloaded all his bitcoins, and then told his users. Prosecutors are looking into this.
Goshawowie, where did they find this "old", "lost" file, in the head honcho's smartphone?
mark
So let me see if I get this right: If MtGox hadn't been hacked, and if they hadn't found this old wallet, then these guys would have lost $116 million out of sheer incompetence? Can you imagine Bezos saying to Amazon shareholders: "Sorry guys, we lost $116 million. The money must be somewhere in the building, but we can't find it. " Or Tim Cook. Or Eric Schmidt. Or Ballmer.
Mt. Gox is going to pay back their secured creditors, you know the ones they borrowed "worthless" fiat money from under the traditional centralized banking system, and stiff the people they owe bitcoins to. You see now the inherent advantage of using government backed currency. The government can easily force people who owe others legal tender to pay it back. Not so easy compared to people who owe you pogs, magic the gathering trading cards, or bitcoins.
Nobody gives a fuck. Language is meant to convey meaning.
So, now if they start looking between the couch cushions or in an old purse somewhere, they can come with another 10 or 20,000 ?
Who the fuck let George Will in here?
Definitely not stoned, and I see only one typo. It happens to everyone; deal with it.
Futurist Traditionalism
You appear to have overlooked the fact that the blockchain (i.e. the transaction log) is public. With a little bit of work you can always determine what wallet has a particular bitcoin. Otherwise it would be impossible to authenticate the transfer from that wallet to yours.
Al Gore? Is that you?!?
You seem to be a bit confused. The problems are with MTGox, not with bitcoin itself.
The concept of bitcoin protocol itself might be just fine, but in order to use bitcoin you have to use the system of wallet software clients and exchanges. If MTGox can screw this up like they did then any other exchange can likewise screw it up. Bugs in wallet client software can cause denial of service, accounting inconsistencies, or other issues. If there is a problem with the systems needed to use bitcoin and provide the bitcoin functionality then it is in fact a problem with bitcoin.
Nope, the problem is with an incompetent provider (MTGox) that never bothered itself with decent security practices.
Here's a car analogy. What if a garage buys two totalled Ford cars and chops and welds them together to make one "good" car out of the wrecks and then I come along to buy it thinking it was a properly built Ford? I'd eventually notice all kinds of problems with the chassis - is that a problem with Fords? Or is the problem with the garage that did such a shoddy job?
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
I don't know why these guys keep thinking they're fooling anyone? At least it's hilarious though.
If that were the only way to get a Ford is through rebuilts then yes that would be a problem with Fords.
By choosing to use Fords then you risk experiencing whatever problems come along with your rebuilt Fords.
Again to actually use Bitcoin, you have to use the software and exchange infrastructure setup for its use. When people say they don't trust it, they are referring to more that just the protocol, which again may be just fine, but to the entire infrastructure, culture, and problems that arise from its use.
Here is a better analogy.
Say someone comes up with a revolutionary new type of engine. The engine is the most reliable, most energy efficient, and cleanest that has been designed to date; however, to actually use it to get you around someone has to put it into some type of vehicle.
If you can trust manufacturers to put it in a vehicle that is safe to ride, that works when you need it, that won't have failures in other parts of the system leaving you high and dry, that is convenient to use, that can be secured so that nefarious types can't take it from you, that is acceptable on the roads, that you can get your monies worth from then that is great.
If you can't trust that you will get good use of it using the systems and infrastructure in place to use it, then this fancy engine is of no use to you.
Somebody needs to investigate this debacle.
Sure, this is all MTGox's fault. (Writing their own security software, and in PHP? Blithering incompetence or malice.) Now, where do I find a trustworthy exchange? One that takes security seriously and does things right, and isn't going to suddenly "lose" all its bitcoins shortly before the founder takes an extended vacation somewhere without extradition treaties?
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes