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Do Free-To-Play Games Get a Fair Shake?

An anonymous reader writes "This article makes the case that most gamers treat 'free-to-play' games with derision and scorn when they really shouldn't. The author refers to it as 'snobbery.' We've all either encountered or heard about a game company using shady business practices to squeeze every cent from their users through in-app purchases (a.k.a. microtransations, a.k.a. cash shops), or a simple pay-to-win format. But these stories don't represent all games — by a long shot. It's something endemic to shady developers and publishers, not the business model. Think about traditionally-sold games, and how often you've seen a trailer that horribly misrepresents gameplay. Or a $60 game that was an unfinished, buggy mess. Or a Kickstarted project that didn't deliver on its promises. The author says, 'When something is new, when it isn't aimed at you, when it is created by strange people in strange places, when it breaks established norms and when it is becoming hugely popular... it's scary for the establishment. The ethical critique is an easy way to fight these changes, a call to protect the children or protect the irrational people who obviously can't like these games on their own merits. We begin to sound as reactionary as the ban on pinball or the fears over jazz music corrupting the minds of our youth.'"

120 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. Hearthstone is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's my first foray into CCG. I'm quite enjoying it. It's boring to read MTG snobs remind people that it's not as strategically advanced (yes, by clearly by design), or free players complaining that it's pay2win (I do fine by collecting cards by winning games), or pretty much anyone who has lost a game against a particular class talk about how "unbalanced" it is (I don't lose unusually often against that class), or people complaining about the lack of cards (it's only been out of beta a few weeks), or any number of complaints that OH IT'S ALL SO AWFUL AND NOT AS GOOD AS EVERYTHING ELSE... until you find that EVERY other game has a similar level of complainers.

    1. Re:Hearthstone is good. by MtHuurne · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm enjoying Hearthstone as well.

      Something some players may not realize is that when you're playing other humans in a ranked system, if you win half your matches, you're doing OK. You can win more if you're new or if you're improving rapidly, but then your ranking gets adjusted and you'll face tougher opponents.

      It's a collectable card game, so having more cards will give you more options. If you want to be able to compete with people who have been playing for months on your first day, you'd have to spend a lot of money. But you wouldn't be able to build a good deck out of those purchased cards with so little experience, so it's a rather pointless criticism. If you play now and then for a few weeks you'll get a decent set of cards and you'll learn how to use them. And every level of rarity has good cards, you don't need a lot of rare cards to make a good deck.

      Reading the forum posts about Gelbin Mekkatorque (a promo card given to people who purchased something during beta) was hilarious. Some people complained that handing out a promo card like that was pay2win. Others complained that the card was seriously underpowered and they felt ripped off. So in the end it shows that you simply cannot make everyone happy. (In my opinion, the card is way too random to be used in a competitive deck, but it is quite funny.)

    2. Re:Hearthstone is good. by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the discussion about Hearthstone. I hadn't heard about it, but it's been fun. I played a little Magic back in the 90's and miss that style of game. Free is an excellent price for a little dabbling.

  2. free to play isn't worth defending by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    usually when we're criticizing "think of the children" positions it's because they threaten something of value. we're talking about games that are designed from the ground up to exploit people for money on a continuous basis, and the best defence they have is that "hey, we're not that bad, some people actually like it"

  3. New? by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    According to the author, apparently "free-to-play" is a new business model. Funny, I've been playing "free-to-play" games for well over twenty years now; and back in the old shareware days it was fairly common to have a feature-limited free version that you had to upgrade to get the whole game.

    Yes, some of the mechanics of ways to make money off of a free-to-play game have changed along with technology, but in concept things really haven't changed that much.

    --

    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    1. Re:New? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the author implies that we don't know what sucks. All those examples in the header sucking doesn't automatically make F2P good. A bad idea is still a bad idea, and they show up in free to play games a lot more often. Maybe there's no publisher to catch them, or to hold them to a bug fix commitment.

      Other stuff involving this author:
      Interview about his F2P game- http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-03-02-easy-company-interview
      The game in question- http://battlefield.play4free.com/en/
      Interview on why he left it a month later- http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-03-keep-taking-the-tablets-ben-cousins-on-the-move-to-mobile
      Interview about a strange shooter he wrote next- http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/06/ben-cousins-wants-to-prove-mobile-first-person-shooters-arent-a-pipe-dream-interview/
      Wikipedia on the game- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Drowning_(video_game)

    2. Re:New? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The difference is that in the old model, you paid to have more fun. In the new model, you pay to skip boredom.

      I loved Plants vs Zombies 1. I gladly paid $20 for it (or whatever the price is). Plants vs Zombies 2 was a completely different story. Even at "free", it was boring. I do not want to pay just to progress. Let me just play a flat fee for a game that is completely optimized for fun.

    3. Re:New? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The difference is that in the old model, you paid to have more fun. In the new model, you pay to skip boredom.

      This AC is spot on the money, that's exactly how I feel. And that boredom tastes artificially added, usually not that bad at first to get you addicted but the deeper you go the more the paid and free paths diverge. Like you can have the normal game or you can have the game with lots of extra grind, would you like to pay $1 to skip it? I guess some feel that's less of a dick move than setting up a paywall and say pay $1 to proceed or it's game over, but at least then it's in their best interest to make the experience as good as possible for you. Not that I like being heckled for money with tiny little DLCs everywhere either, give me large expansions and leave the sales booth out of the game itself. Nothing worse than an in-game NPC with a dollar sign over his head.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:New? by ildon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Free-to-play" does not literally mean "free to play." It means a game that is specifically designed around microtransactions. A game that was designed, scoped, and balanced around the idea that you will just barely not be able to succeed, or just barely not be able to get what you want done, unless you fork over some cash a little bit at a time.

      In order for a shareware classic like DOOM to be designed in the Free-to-Play model, imagine that instead of the levels having 3 colored key cards with associated doors, they had 10 colored key cards, and you could only pick up one per day. You might reach the second key, but you would have to wait a day or fork over $0.50, or have someone click your post on Facebook to pick up the next card. Not only that, but as you progressed through the level, monster health, damage, and density increased, to the point that it would generally not be possible to complete a level unless you paid for a "boost" such as bonus healing or ammo or a temporary damage power up. There would also be no cheat codes in the game, and no difficulty level selector at the start. But you wouldn't have to pay for episodes 2-4! They'd be included but extremely hard to complete without paying for boosts, and without paying for the extra keycard access it would take you weeks to reach them.

      So yes, the current "free-to-play" design paradigm is completely different from the old shareware system. In a shareware system, the most unscrupulous thing a game designer might do is front load the best level designs into the first episode, and get lazy with the designs of the later episodes, but they still had to actually make the core gameplay and difficulty progression fun, and the main gameplay loop fun. In the F2P model you create a core gameplay loop that is fun and balanced, and then you intentionally skew it to be impossible, time consuming, or frustrating, and add payment opportunities at those points of near defeat or frustration or "I'm just 2 points away" or "I just want to play one more level." And the worst part is that once you actually fork over the money, and the restrictions are released, the resulting game is bland and repetitive. The challenge disappeared because the only challenge the games usually provided were in the management of limited resources. You literally just paid $1 to make the game less fun for yourself by effectively cheating. It leaves you feeling empty and unfulfilled.

    5. Re:New? by Quirkz · · Score: 2

      Also, PvZ2 includes a lot of components that you cannot eventually earn, but can only buy. A handful of plants, a number of other bonuses. I added it all up at one point, and it was well over $50, just for the perpetual benefits, not even consumables. I resist paying that much for an AAA title. No way in hell will I pay it for a little iPhone distracter. I was late to the original and only paid $5, which I thought was fair. I'd pay $5 or even $10 for everything in #2. But not $50 or $60. Ridiculous.

    6. Re:New? by Demonantis · · Score: 1

      A lot of f2p make you feel punished for not paying. It doesn't develop the good will that motivates people to play. I think a lot of developers jumped on the f2p concept and kind of lost their minds. The games that let you pay to skip arbitrary delays are the worst. They are basically rewarding you to not play the game. The only people that pay are the ones that get sucked into the game. I guess they work on the same habit-reward cycles that casinos work on. People don't like them, but they still some how have a user base.

    7. Re:New? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2

      Exactly. The second I hear a game is freer to play, I immediately assume all of these things about it, and it's up to the game designer to try to convince me to "buy" it anyway. The only one in recent memory that has done that for me is Path to Exile. The entire game is free to play, and all of the purchases are for cosmetic stuff, with, arguably, only additional stash space being something that might give you an advantage in the game.

    8. Re:New? by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      The difference is that in the old model, you paid to have more fun. In the new model, you pay to skip boredom.

      If you're bored by a game, you can just stop playing it for free!

      At least that's what I do.

      --
      bickerdyke
    9. Re:New? by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      You are absolutely correct, but it bares saying that not ALL free-with-microtransaction games are like that. Dota2, Team Fortress2, Path of the Exile, League of Legends are all good examples of free to play done right (although League of Legends does dip somewhat into the time-wasting nonsense you mentioned, not enough to break the game though).

    10. Re:New? by asavage · · Score: 1

      The one good thing about plants vs. zombies 2 over most other fremium games is the game isn't too hard to beat without paying. All the pay only plants and player upgrades are totally unnecessary. They do have game currency boosters which I think I needed to beat optional levels but you get enough coins from just playing so no reason at all to use real money to buy. While I don't like fremium games, PvZ2 I think is one of the better ones I have seen.

    11. Re:New? by allo · · Score: 1

      But you pay one time for the full game, maybe one time per levelpack. Now you for each time, you play the level. And in 10 years you won't be able to get your old android tablet and show someone the old game, because it cannot contact its license-server and will only run the minimum features, if it starts at all.

  4. More basic than that by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The attitude stems from something more basic. In conventional games, even bad ones, once you have the game you have everything and how well you do is then up to your own skill and ability. In many free-to-play games, though, the game itself is just the hook. Once you're in, you find that you can't, for all practical purposes, go beyond a certain point without spending money and how much further beyond that you can go depends on how much you can afford to spend. It's why the derisive term is "pay-to-win". In large part how well you do in that type of game doesn't depend on your skill or ability, it depends on how deep your wallet is. And a lot of gamers are offended by the idea that a skilled, knowledgeable player who happens to not be that well-off will by design be less successful in the game than an unskilled, not-very-good player who happens to have well-off parents who'll toss him a couple of hundred dollars a week to fund his entertainment.

    1. Re:More basic than that by lgw · · Score: 1

      There's a world of difference though between "pay for content" and "pay to win". For years, Turbine was a shining example of doing it right in DDO (and probably LOTR online), where the free-to-pay portion was most of the low-level content and some of the mid-high level content, and mostly you paid to unlock new quest lines (permanently, for all characters on your account) and new race/class options (again, permanently). Sure, you couldn't get to max level on the free content alone (well, not in any sane way), but it was far more than just a limited trial. You could play for weeks and get a real feel for whether it was worth subscribing, or pay per quest line if your didn't want to subscribe. Pay-for-content is good.

      Now it's different (not sure what changed in corporate management), and you can just buy your character up to max level (which is bizarre for an MMO without much endgame). It has gradually become pay-to-win.

      There are a bunch of smaller Korean MMOs focused on PvP with pay-to-win mechanics where a duel between high-level characters can basically go on until one player runs out of cash. Pay-to-win is somewhat scummy, but if you're playing with friends it really doesn't matter,

      The third model, and the sleaziest one, is "pay-to-progress", where you get one "turn" per day, but can buy turns. I see those games as just scams, but at least they're upfront about it.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    2. Re:More basic than that by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 3

      Once you're in, you find that you can't, for all practical purposes, go beyond a certain point without spending money and how much further beyond that you can go depends on how much you can afford to spend. It's why the derisive term is "pay-to-win".

      Far too many gamers paint all Free To Play games with the same brush. Everyone should check out the games Loadout (FPS) and Paths of Exile (Action RPG). Both are more polished than many traditional model games. Paths of Exile has absolutely no way of paying for an in-game advantage. My objection was that their cosmetic items are obscenely priced. Turning your town portal from blue to orange is like 9 bucks. Adding a cosmetic lightning effect to your weapon is more than $20. Loadout offers an array of hilarious cosmetic stuff, plus short term double XP periods as part of a larger package. The thing is that a good player can earn 1500+ XP per match while a shitty player earns 500-800 per match. So a shitty player who pays for double XP isn't going to surpass a good player who pays nothing.

    3. Re:More basic than that by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 2

      True, but I've noticed that the F2P games that use that model are now trying to entice players back into monthly subscriptions. I think it's inevitable: if all you can buy is cosmetic, there's no real incentive to spend much money at all and the company starts wondering where all the cash they were supposed to be getting is. I'm of the opinion that the whole "free to play, and we'll make our money off the cash shop" is right in there with "free site, and we'll make our money off the advertising" as a business model.

    4. Re:More basic than that by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      True, but I've noticed that the F2P games that use that model are now trying to entice players back into monthly subscriptions.

      What games are those?

  5. Rift by chuckugly · · Score: 1

    The folks at Trion have converted Rift to a fair and decent F2P game IMO. I played when it was not free, and was worried about the change but it's not pay to win, and it's still decent quality. Paying can make "the grind" less grindy but those with more time and less money can still be competitive.

    1. Re:Rift by seebs · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Rift does a very good job. I know at least one person who was raiding without ever having spent any money on the game, and also without having bought credits (the store currency) with in-game money. The game is built around the same tuning that was generally regarded as acceptable when it was subscription-based, and the majority of the purchases go towards convenience things, cosmetics, and gambling. If you really want to be powerful, the best stuff still requires you to actually play the game.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    2. Re:Rift by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I think Lord of the Rings Online and Dungeons and Dragons Online did a good job too. These were the first top tier MMOs to go that way.
      However they are not strictly "F2P", they are a hybrid allowing players to either subscribe or to pay for content/features ala-carte. Plus players can mix the two, unsubscribing or resubscribe any time while still being able to play. These have not turned into "pay to win" despite the predictions of doom.

    3. Re:Rift by Black+LED · · Score: 1

      This is how I feel about Star Trek Online. It's not the greatest game, but you can play through the storyline and participate in combat or events without ever feeling like the game is giving unfair advantages to paying players. It's probably one of the most fair systems I have seen in a free MMO and I have spent small amounts over the course of several years on it specifically because I wanted to help support it.

    4. Re:Rift by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Yep, I feel the same way about STO, I'd play it more except it doesn't work very well under Wine now.

      I'm experiencing the symptoms descibed in the Performance Degradation subthread:

      https://appdb.winehq.org/objec...

      A couple of months ago, I was getting annoyed by the ugliness of my "golf ball" Olympic Research Science Vessel,

      http://sto.gamepedia.com/Resea...

      so I ponied up some cash for some points to get a Nebula.

      http://sto.gamepedia.com/Advan...

      While the nebula did have a few advantages over the RSV, the ensign slot is generic and has more crew/hull and another engineering console slot (and the Tachyon console) , but it loses serious maneuverability, it turns like a brick. Which is why you need the extra hull. So it's not like you're paying to win with it.

      Then again, it is not ugly.

      Now once I reached captain, I was quite happy with the default Intrepid.

      http://sto.gamepedia.com/Long_...

      Course, everyone loves the Intrepid.

    5. Re:Rift by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Cryptic with STO and SOE with DCUO as well.

    6. Re:Rift by Black+LED · · Score: 1

      I was tooling around in the freebie Advanced Escort for a long time. I recently acquired a Fleet Chimera Heavy Destroyer in exchange for just 20,000 fleet credits and a single 500 zen ship module, though you do have to be Vice Admiral rank and your fleet has to have a tier 2 Dyson sphere spire in order to get it. The nice thing is even if I didn't want to spend $5 on the ship module, it really wouldn't take much time to earn/mine enough dilithium to exchange for the zen, I just tend to put all of my earned dilithium into the fleet unless I have a project that needs it, which is pretty seldom.

      I'm glad they added ship loadouts. It makes it easy to swap your best gear out between ships so that you can use whichever one you want for a task instead of using one and having seven (or more) collecting dust.

  6. Too many microtransactions. by B33rNinj4 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The microtransactions are what really turn me off to F2P games. Most games allow you to progress rapidly to a certain point, then you hit the wall HARD. You either continue to shell out a few dollars here and there, stop playing, or just continue to coast along without spending a dime. If I was just being offered cosmetic items, I wouldn't have a problem. However, in many cases you have zero ability to progress.

    1. Re:Too many microtransactions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Path Of Exile follows that model, microtransactions are and always will be purely for cosmetic items... not to mention that the game rated better than D3 when it came out (judging by the players, anyway)

    2. Re:Too many microtransactions. by nobuddy · · Score: 2

      In my experience, this only really kicks the hardcore players in the ass. I play sasually, and the various rewards given as time progresses work well to offset the non-pay penalties.
      SWTOR does this well. Sign up for a secure key app, there is 100 coins a month. Progressing in levels and achievements in game nets you xp boosts and such. Quest rewards are the same for everyone- and often it is XP or power boosts as well. Spend the coin to pen pay-only areas for a week, go play them that week. if you like it open them again next month. Pop your XP boosts and you play a level game with a subscriber. Or, as you get high level, buy those market items from the auction house for game money. When you are sitting on a couple million with nothing else to spend it on, why bitch as a 10 pack of major XP boosts for 10k? Or a token to open restricted areas for a month for 100k?

    3. Re:Too many microtransactions. by lgw · · Score: 2

      I don't mind the model of "extended free trial, then you have to subscribe", in fact I think that's great. What I fund scummy is when you're stuck with all the microtransactions, and can't just subscribe to be free of them.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Too many microtransactions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      These are games that aren't really free-to-play. But there are good fully free-to-play games: Team Fortress, DOTA, Guild Wars 2, although with the last one, you still need to buy the game first. Team Fortress is completely free-to-play, unless you mistake it for a hat simulator.

    5. Re:Too many microtransactions. by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      SWTOR is ok in this regard, but frankly the restrictions on F2P are long and painful.

      Even being a sub, I find some of the timers and limits annoying. Why are fleet passes not instant for a sub? What possible benefit is there to having the fleet timer be 6 hours for a sub who pays $15 a month?

      SWTOR is coasting on the Cartel Market (cash shop), the actual game content has been pretty thin for a year now. Some new end game content to be sure, but the actual story has suffered.

      I'm playing it because it is Star Wars, anything else and I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, but even that is wearing thin...

    6. Re:Too many microtransactions. by Mister+J · · Score: 1

      TF2 is a particularly good example - what you get for free is the original paid base game plus several years' worth of updates. You can buy weapons and cosmetics (which can also be got in-game via random drops and crafting) and various other utility items that don't have any (non-cosmetic) effect on gameplay. More importantly, the weapons are all intended to be sidegrades offering alternate play-styles and situational advantages - you can't pay-to-win in any meaningful way.

      --
      Windows moves in mysterious ways, its crashes to perform
  7. Entitlements vs. consumables by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's a difference between old free-to-play, which was based on "entitlements" (purchases that you keep for an indefinite time once you buy them), and new free-to-play, which is based on "consumables" (purchases that you have to make and remake to continue progressing). The old shareware model involved making the first chapter free-to-play and making further chapters entitlements. For example, the first episode of Doom was provided without charge and ended on a cliffhanger. The Ultimate Doom paid entitlement brought three more episodes* ("The Shores of Hell", "Inferno", and "Thy Flesh Consumed"); and the Doom II paid entitlement brought another game's worth of missions. Energy mechanics in newer F2P games, such as "gems" or "berries" or "lives", are different: they force you to wait hours or days at a time to progress if you don't pay, and completing the game within reasonable time requires spending more on energy than a player would have originally spent on a whole game under a pay-up-front or entitlement model.

    * Before Ultimate Doom was completed, Id Software sold Doom (registered version), which was the same as Ultimate Doom without "Thy Flesh Consumed".

    1. Re:Entitlements vs. consumables by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      WORMS FTW! jk, jk, srsly when I buy a phone game and can choose between an ad-supported free version and a paid version that costs a buck or two, i usually choose the paid version. one, because i read reviews to learn what the good games are and don't download everything just to try it. two, because ads annoy me. three, I'm not going to pay for stuff I wouldn't pay for in real life. In real life I'm not going to throw down for a shiny metal helmet, so i'm not going to do it virtually either. four, all games are a waste of time anyway so why pay any money? five, I would rather save for a PS4. six, the XBone creeps me out because it is always looking at me.

    2. Re:Entitlements vs. consumables by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      To give an examples
      Jurassic Park Builder has
      1 a DNA research bit that flat FAILS about 40% of the time (and you have to pay 10 to 30K per try)
      2 hatch times measured in DAYS
      3 has recently added one of those 'get points to get "lottery tickets"' things

      Dragons World has
      1 a rolling set of "Buy Resource Pack and get special dragons" thing (at US$25 US$50 and US$100)
      2 an rare system that about requires you to buy gems to get the best dragons
      3 Wait times measured in DAYS

      Dragon City has
      1 a bunch of "social building" things that have you ask friends to help you with the build process.

      Anybody wanna make one of these things thats actually FAIR??

      my address is on the google commercial mail server if you want to find me on FB

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    3. Re:Entitlements vs. consumables by asavage · · Score: 1

      The other thing about free to play is games is a game that should cost maybe $5 for the whole game can cost thousands of dollars to get everything. To make up for the 99 that don't pay they want to make $500-1000 from that 1%. Games like Simpsons Tapped Out for phones/tablets can cost over $20 just for a single "premium" character like Barney Gumble. You can't even grind to earn these characters as they are pay only. The premium currency (donuts) is given out so slowly in a year of playing you won't have enough to buy even one of the higher cost premium characters.

    4. Re:Entitlements vs. consumables by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      This exactly. I've been playing a lot of smartphone apps recently. I have no trouble paying something for a game. If they want to release a "lite" version with limited levels, I'm fine with that. It lets you get a feel for the game play and see if you want to spend the cash for the full version. I don't even have a problem with additional level packs costing more money. What I have a problem with are games where you either 1) Need to buy items with the "premium currency" (only obtainable by paying cash) to advance in the game or 2) Need to pay to keep an "energy meter" up. In the latter case, if you limit how much I play your game, you are just making it more likely that I'll play another game, not pay you money.

      As an example of a game-gone-wrong, I'd submit Where's My Water. The first game was pretty good. There was a lite version, a paid version, and additional level packs you could buy. Then Where's My Water 2 came out. At first, they had an energy meter, but they got rid of that when people complained. My big issue? Keys. You can only obtain keys by 1) buying them or 2) bugging people on social media. If you don't do that, you can't proceed along the map. If you buy the keys, you will just get stuck at the next gate that requires more keys. So you aren't even buying "the full version", you are buying "the next level or two." The end result? I don't even have that app on my phone anymore.

      I don't begrudge game developers from making money, but it's a fine line between encouraging payments and annoying people too much.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    5. Re:Entitlements vs. consumables by toddestan · · Score: 1

      The Simpsons Tapped Out has kind of an interesting model in the sense that they'll give out something for free for a limited time, then later bring it back as a "premium" item. For example, if one was playing for the Christmas 2012 update they would have had the opportunity to get Barney for free, but now he costs 250 donuts (about $20). They recently just did the same thing for Maude Flanders (free during Halloween 2013, now 150 donuts). I guess it can be viewed as either a way of rewarding the long-term players, or making it so that the newer players feel that they have to spend money to catch up.

  8. IMHO, the author is "ethically challenged" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most programmers believe it is immoral to trick people into spending money on things.
    Pay to Win games are designed with that sole purpose; that's why we hate Pay to Win.

    1. Re:IMHO, the author is "ethically challenged" by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      I have never been tricked into spending money. But I do not play app games, so I may have dodged a bullet. Pay-to-play on PC has been a rather pleasant experience thus far.

  9. Coin operated by tepples · · Score: 1

    The problem comes when the companys start cutting the fun. While at the same time asking for a nickle every minute.

    How is that different from an arcade operator selling me 50 tokens for $10 and demanding three tokens ("no cash value", but practically 60 cents) for an 8-minute game of Dance Dance Revolution?

    1. Re:Coin operated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then you are paying for the electricity, rental of the building, and wear/tear on hardware. Same reason that f2p MMOs aren't hated nearly as much as single player f2p phone games, servers cost money to run.

      But if it is a single player game on your own hardware, charging for tokens/berries/etc without an expense to justify the price is just deliberately making the game less fun in an attempt to milk players.

    2. Re:Coin operated by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      There is this barcade that has some games on free and others on coin / bills.

      there is also one with free games and high beer prices.

  10. Not my cup of tea by Rhacman · · Score: 1

    I played Dragon's Prophet for a while (a free to play MMO). While I thoroughly enjoyed the gameplay I just got tired of fighting my own temptation to spend on the cash shop to advance quicker.

    So no, as the article points out I have no purely rational reason for avoiding free-to-play games. That said, I have no purely rational reason for playing games in the first place, it's a choice I make purely on how a game environment resonates with my own subjective perception. A game that feels like a shady carnival with carnival barkers clamoring for the most cash they can drain from me just doesn't appeal to me. How "fair" that attitude is to game developers and publishers is, to me, quite irrelevant.

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    Account -> Discussions -> Disable Sigs
  11. Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by mark-t · · Score: 2

    ... is a conundrum, IMO.

    I worked as a game programmer for nearly 7 years and in more recent years, I noticed that other than people that I worked with, and others who were in the industry, the notion of essentially requiring the player to keep paying incremental amounts so that the game will be playable to any practical degree is almost universally derided by players everywhere. Somehow, however, these games continue to be the ones that garner the greatest profit margins. This fact was irrefutable... despite being so loathed, this model was clearly what had the best effect on a game company's bottom line.

    Can somebody explain this paradox?

    1. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Time. They gather the most profit for awhile. And then close shop after everyone leaves their game.

      It all comes down to a few questions.

      How long do you want your game to exist?
      A long time making ok money?
      Or a short time making alot of money for a few people at the top?

      Are you at the top?

    2. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The existence of a small cross-section of the playerbase that I've heard referred to as "the whales": players that are the perfect storm of access to nigh-unlimited disposable income and compulsive play habits.

    3. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      Well, I don't mean to insult your 7 years of experience repeating what you likely already know: It is the pacing cycle of build up and release found in everything from day/night, neurons, fire/reload, rising action/climax, browsing/buying, waiting/playing, suspense/resolution, ect. that is primarily the cause of the profit margins. By exploiting essential cognitive rhythms of rest and effort, risk and reward, etc. one can skillfully extract payment from the weak minded who are susceptible to the level of thought control available to our most immersive experience crafting medium of games.

      As a cyberneticist and student of neurological and behavioral sciences, I am vehemently opposed to the micro-transaction "Zynergy" system. Instead I ask for a fair price up front, and lower the price over time to hit certain impulse buy points among target demographics, or charge a monthly fee for services rendered. I use the pacing cycle to create games that flow better and are "addictive" fun, but I don't believe in building game mechanics around a sales model, that's just evil and limiting to the game developers as well.

      If I put the player Skinner's Box, I want their task to be enjoyable and their outcome to be more fun, not less money. I accept that I'll make less money myself by eschewing such sales practices; However to me making games is primarily an artistic expression, not primarily a business venture. Just look at how crappy paintings, sculptures, films, music, etc. are when they are designed primarily around making money, vs for artistic means. I refuse to cheapen myself and do that to games.

      The Arcade model was killed by the Consoles who did away with "pay to win". Likewise the micro-transaction model is not sustainable, as you will see when the payment processors start going offline and game lovers revolt against inability to enjoy the games born with such death sentences. Art should not be born with a needless death sentence, and society will not bear the elimination of segments of their game culture for much longer. The rejection has already began in force and will only get stronger, otherwise TFA wouldn't even have been written...

      Just because we can do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. This goes doubly any time money is involved.

    4. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by rsmith-mac · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Indeed.

      As a whole, mobile game players don't actually buy anything. It's the tiny, tiny percentage of whales that brings in much of the revenue (and ads fill in much of the rest).

      0.22 percent of players account for 46 percent of mobile app revenue

      Given this, it's no surprise that mobile game development is so damn broken. It's impossible to have a healthy development environment if most players aren't actually willing to pay for the game.

    5. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      So, Zynga's racking in the bucks, then?

    6. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by Calinous · · Score: 1

      Maybe because what you consider "almost universally derided by players everywhere" is just "the vocal minority"?

    7. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      Just to make the point more obvious:

      Plants vs Zombies 1: paid game, huge following, considered classic.
      Plants vs Zombies 2: free-to-play game in the worst sense. Never heard anybody saying they liked it, probably got more cash than the first one. But it pretty much killed the franchise reputation of game-design mastery.
      Plants vs Zombies 3: Will probably be f2p too, but even worse in the micro-transactions. Nobody will care much about PvZ anymore.
      Plants vs Zombies 4: Will be the last entry and it will fail to revive its former glory.

    8. Re:Free to play, otherwise known as pay to win.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      As other posters have commented in response to my question, evidently not

  12. Buy meal, get tokens free by tepples · · Score: 1

    A lot of arcades nowadays include some game tokens with the purchase of a meal, so yes, (a small amount of) gameplay is "free".

  13. Path of Exile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Path of Exile is one free to play game that has done free to play the right way, the entire game is free. You don't have to pay a cent and you play the exact same game at the same level that someone who has payed $1000. They offer cosmetic microtransactions such as armour skins and alternate skill effects however they are all cosmetic and offer no in game advantage. They do offer increased storage space and advanced guild functions as a microtransaction however the storage space provided by default is more than enough to play at the same level as everyone else and one can always make more than one account to use for storage.
    They do occasionally offer big ticket items such as the ability to work with the game designers to create a personalised unique item ($1000) or even create your own monster ($25000) however even if you pay to design a new unique item you still have to find it in the game through normal play.

    1. Re:Path of Exile by blackicye · · Score: 2

      I totally agree, Path of Exile is one of the best, if not the best F2P models I've encountered, I spent $20 on it purely to support them, I spent almost all of the credits on storage space though. :)

  14. Obvious Elephant in the Room is Obvious... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm not exactly certain what this hypothetical 'fair shake' is; but the obvious elephant in the room, when considering 'free to play' games, is that they aren't free to make, or free to run(and are almost always online, so they are 'not free to run' as in 'will die the moment the hosting bill goes unpaid') so you do always have to keep an eye on your wallet.

    Nothing precludes 'traditional' games from also using assorted 'freemium' tricks as well as costing money (Hi there, Dead Space 3! I was totally jazzed about buying crafting components from EA in a game that costs $60!); but when you can see the transaction ahead of time (I give you $x, you give me the game or massively-multiplayer-something-something costs $y/month), there is economic room for products where you can relax and stop watching your wallet. There can, and will, be bad actors, bad deals, overhyped games sold pre-release, etc. but you are freed from the fundamental, nagging, "He obviously needs to make money, and I haven't given him any yet, so when and how does the other shoe drop?" question that dogs 'free-to-play' titles.

    As for the 'protect irrational people who obviously can't like these games on their own merits' dig, same basic elephant: we know that the game costs money to make and run, and that the maker ideally wants to actually profit. We also know that monetization rates are comparatively low (something that the inevitable 'Well, $GAME$ gets called 'pay to win'; but I'm just good enough to get by on pure skill. In fact, I actually make money!' brigade exists to remind us of), so we have pretty good reason to suspect the existence of 'Whales'(just like in the casino business) who keep the average income/player high enough for the game to stay in the black.

    None of this is proof that any specific operator is running a notably shady deal; but there is a reason why this business model gets special scrutiny: If a 'free to play' game is actually free-to-play, on average, it's either burning VC cash or bleeding out. So, any given title is either dying or on average not free. Similarly, if a game has a lousy monetization rate, with many players actually playing for free, it must clearly be the case that the game is either dying or really bleeding some customers. At that point, you either stick your fingers in your ears and shout "FREE WILL! I can't hear you! RATIONAL ACTORS!" or you must at least consider whether the best customers happen to be children making in-app purchases with somebody else's payment information(not that that, um, actually happened, a lot, or anything. Definitely not enough that it went to court.) or Facebook's equivalent of pathalogical gamblers.

    1. Re:Obvious Elephant in the Room is Obvious... by Undead+Waffle · · Score: 1

      This is basically it. When you pay for a game up front you know what it costs. When a game is "free" all that means is you don't know up front how much it's going to cost or what you are going to have to pay for. There is some amount of deception in the business model. And of course they always end up introducing more ways to get money from you, making a lot of people feel like all of their time spent on the game is wasted once it hits that breaking point where they ultimately quit.

  15. Been at GDC, and F2P is dying. by goruka · · Score: 1

    Once large F2P publishers, advertisers and developers such as Gree, 6waves, Tapjoy, Zynga, King, etc. were all but gone. I'm not saying there aren't companies still milking the model, but they are more into niches and whales in a shrinking market. Investment for these kind of games is disappearing rapidly.

    Met with many publishers and can tell you for sure that the huge success of Steam and high amount of sales of the PS4 is making them reconsider where to invest. The new trend now seems to be something called "Premium", where you basically pay upfront for a game. Something never heard of that It's going to change the world.

    1. Re:Been at GDC, and F2P is dying. by shastamonk · · Score: 1

      Weren't over half the talks at GDC about F2P? Perhaps because you're neither a Whale or a Teen in their monetization demographic, you simply weren't paying attention.

  16. Re:Plebs gonna pleb. by Johann+Lau · · Score: 1

    But that's the thing, both grinding and buying suck -- what about challenging gameplay? Isn't that what makes the rewards actually rewarding? Nowadays AAA titles put incredibly amounts of content into games, and then they want to make sure everybody gets to see all of it, and people want that too, because they paid for it, but it leads to shitty games IMHO.

    I got kinda bored with gaming because of all this glorified skinner box stuff, like achievements people "hunt" just so they can tick them off. I might as well go through folders of sounds, textures and models to "consume the content". The way to win that is to not play, and that's kinda sad for me. But then again maybe it's just something one grows out of after a while, and it's not use trying to "fix" that, and trying to tell those who are still having fun with it how they should have fun :P

  17. The play store needs categories by egarland · · Score: 4, Insightful

    * Ad supported
    * Pay to win
    * Microtransactions
    * Completely free

    They should change the "Free" button where the cost usually would be to one of these.

    This information is important to to know up front and I should be able to filter out "pay to win" because screw that.

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    1. Re:The play store needs categories by NewWorldDan · · Score: 1

      You forgot a category:

      * Buy it once

      I'm completely willing to shell out a few bucks up front in order to not be bothered by irritating grabs for money. Of course, I also prefer single player offline games, so this works for me.

  18. Re:What is a shake? by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

    To give something a fair shake is to give it a fair chance. It started off around 1830 as an American colloquialism meaning "an honest deal", but the meaning has shifted.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  19. "derision and scorn when they really shouldn't" by jargonburn · · Score: 4, Interesting
    No, no I don't think I do. I've heard free-to-play broken down into three categories:

    * Free-to-Play: The entire game is free to play and experience; you may be able to purchase some benefits in-game, but they do not skew the balance. They either provide minimal perks, or are purely aesthetic or to support to developer.
    * Freemium: The entire game is technically available, but it will take you much longer to go through it without paying some meaningful amount. Available purchases include benefits that can't be earned any other way or require a lot of time/work to accumulate in-game. Balance is skewed to favor those who pay, but you can still compete at a disadvantage.
    * Pay-to-Win: The game is there, and you can play it, but a number of important features or content are locked behind pay-walls. Benefits possible cannot be meaningfully earned by any other method. If you aren't paying, you can't hope to compete with those who do.

    I scorn and deride Pay-to-Win (I feel, appropriately). I'll regard Freemium games with suspicion, but may play depending on the game itself and how exactly the "store" component is structured. I'll embrace Free-to-Play conceptually; play and support it if I like it.

    I've...played Freemium and Pay-to-win. I'm not interested in paying as much as I would for a full game to enjoy said benefits for one or two months. I also hate how it feels not being able to compete because I'm unwilling to pay a bunch of money. If I find the story or mechanics engaging, I'll check it out...but I leave my wallet at home.

    1. Re:"derision and scorn when they really shouldn't" by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I dare say there is even one more way I'd split the P2W group: In those games where you can simply "pay up" to a "full" version and on the other hand games where there is no "paid" version but only a "keep paying" variant.

      A lot of MMOs are going for the former variant of F2P today. SWTOR comes to mind. You can play for free, all right, but to access any kind of meaningful content, you have to cough up dough. Or, of course, turn your free account into a paid one with the usual monthly fee. While I consider it very dishonest to advertise something like that as "play for free", because it is essentially mostly like a demo of the game, at least it lets you turn a free game into one with a predictable cost to play.

      Far more insidious is the other kind. The one where you get to spend an arbitrary amount of money to give yourself an edge. Without a set amount of money to spend to get "full access", the depth of your wallet dictates your success in the game.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:"derision and scorn when they really shouldn't" by N1AK · · Score: 1

      I've...played Freemium and Pay-to-win. I'm not interested in paying as much as I would for a full game to enjoy said benefits for one or two months. I also hate how it feels not being able to compete because I'm unwilling to pay a bunch of money. If I find the story or mechanics engaging, I'll check it out...but I leave my wallet at home.

      To be fair, the have to spend a lot to compete model wasn't invented by p2w games. MMOs and plenty of other games often have a model that requires you to spend ungodly amounts of time grinding for equipment, upgrades, skills etc if you want to play at the top levels and have a chance.

      Personally I don't see the difference between a game requiring you to spend $20 to have the best stuff and a game requiring you to spend 400 hours to have the best stuff. In both cases you're leaving a large chunk of players unable to do it.

    3. Re:"derision and scorn when they really shouldn't" by msimm · · Score: 1

      And don't forget an important fact with free-to-play games regarding their business models:

      The business model they choose is subject to change. What might start out as a 'free-to-play' game with premium cosmetic additions can over time shift to a Freemium or Pay-to-Win model. I've invested my time and reasonable amounts of money in free-to-play games in the past, only to be burned later when they change to a more aggressive model.

      --
      Quack, quack.
    4. Re:"derision and scorn when they really shouldn't" by jargonburn · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I haven't run into that, but most likely due to a lack of participation in such games, in general. That hadn't occurred to me, but I can see it happening. Definitely a downer.

    5. Re:"derision and scorn when they really shouldn't" by jargonburn · · Score: 1
      A good point! Time and Money have an equivalence, the amount just varies by person.
      400 hours for me would be much harder (as a workaholic) than 400 hours for a seventeen-year-old lounging around gaming during a break from school.
      I have an easier time respecting the results of putting time into it. Really, it might make more sense to work for 3 hours, make $30-$90 depending on the job, and pay that into the game instead of grinding for 20 hours...except, I usually play the game (and even grind!) because I enjoy playing the game; that has value to me, both as something I chose to do outside of "work", and possibly as a form of relaxation.

      YMMV.

  20. Only winning move is not to play! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Game X:

    Run across the map to satisfy some NPC's fetish for collecting some stupid shit... and..

    Kill 10 bears
    Kill 20 bears
    Kill 30 bears

    Killed myself.

  21. Arcade games are still skill based by dfm3 · · Score: 2

    In my mind, the difference is that there is some level of skill involved in arcade gameplay which is missing in current f2p games. Having grown up in the era when arcades were still the place to spend a Saturday afternoon, I can remember the excitement of nailing that perfect play which seemed to go on and on as the difficulty became increasingly harder... or, the frustration of realizing that you just wasted your money as you crash and burn right off the bat.

    Really good arcade players could go what seemed like forever on a single coin, sometimes drawing a sizable audience, while the not-so-good players had a financial (and social!) incentive to improve their gameplay. This is missing from f2p games, which aren't designed to test the player's skill, but their patience. "Trolls are destroying your crops! To double your yield, build a watchtower that will only cost 99 cents!" would be akin to an arcade game prompting you, "Want to complete this level with half of the enemies? Insert a second token now!"

    1. Re:Arcade games are still skill based by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      you can play pinball and keep wining free games over and over.

    2. Re:Arcade games are still skill based by Zephyn · · Score: 1

      Actually, there were a few arcade titles following the 80's crash offered advantages if you chipped in more coinage. Cyberball 2072 would sometimes give you the option to buy improved team performance or enhanced players between quarters. And I seem to recall Xybots offering extra in-game currency for tokens. Thankfully the trend never caught on back then.

  22. A competent discussion of the topic by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    By actual game devs. In particular watch the CCG one.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  23. Cobalt Flux by tepples · · Score: 1
    Light guns have worked on home CRTs since Duck Hunt, and there exist metal DDR controllers for consoles and PCs such as Cobalt Flux. But you're right that arcades have the advantage with actuators.

    But you have a point in that some (probably most) games were designed unfairly require the utmost perfect gameplay to not be a coin sink IF it was even possible.

    That's what I liked about DDR: you got to pick 3 songs and any of 3 different step charts for each, so long as you didn't fail out. So you could pick 2 songs you knew you could do and 1 that you thought you might be able to do.

  24. Mythical non-pay-to-win games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Look up Path of Exile, it's a Hack and Slash F2P Game with a cash-shop. It's cosmetics and convenience stuff. You can buy visual effects for your items and skills, useless pets, that follow your character around. For example the biggest game related advantage that you can buy with real cash is, additional storage for your virtual items. Which can be circumvented by simply creating more account, which of course are free.

    You might say that this is an exception out there on the F2P market, however, it proves that the companies are the scum bags, not the business model itself.

  25. The reality is... by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

    ... free 2 play games are lower quality than real games. Even league of legends has hugely less content than warcraft 3 and starcraft 1 did with user made maps, etc. Most of the "new" heroes are mere reskins of stats. The fact is free 2 play is just feudalistic theft model of gaming where you pay to get fucked and never own anything. The problem is kids and the masses don't know any better and are ruining gaming by feeding these unethical companies.

    The whole model relies on the userbases illiteracy and stupidity when it comes to technology, so in no way are free to play games "a fair shake". It's just good old american hustling conning tech ignorant suckers out of their money.

    1. Re:The reality is... by qpqp · · Score: 1

      The whole model relies on the userbases illiteracy

      Totally agree, and now they grew bold enough to troll a nerd site to sway opinion about this shit to look like a legitimate business model.

      The author of that article,
      "Ben Cousins has spent his 15 years in the games industry at companies like DeNA, [b]DICE[/b], Sony and Lionhead. Since 2006 he's worked on a total of 10 separate free-to-play games across five different platforms, reaching approximately 50 million users. Follow him on Twitter @benjamincousins."

      IMHO, he should be ashamed of himself.

    2. Re:The reality is... by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "IMHO, he should be ashamed of himself."

      Unfortunately enough, science says we're monkeys... in that the human brain decides via emotion, not systematic conscious reason, by unconscious processes embedded in the brain. So this is why everything goes to shit...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  26. no mention of Flash games? Kongregate, anyone? by PJ6 · · Score: 1

    Most of the games there - even the very best of them - are totally free, and never ask users for money.

    I feel the author is offering up his own kind of snobbery.

    1. Re:no mention of Flash games? Kongregate, anyone? by Windwraith · · Score: 1

      One thing most people doesn't realize is that there is a part of the developer population that is that crazy (as some put it) to code for free. Because they really want to make games. Of course 90% of everything is crap, whether it's Kongregate, Newgrounds, communities centered on pre-made engines (such as LÃve, MMF, gamemaker, Unity, etc), or just plain hobbyists with a website or github repo and nothing else. But there is good stuff out there, and shouldn't be underestimated because it's given for free.

      For me, and many others, having the finished product in your hands (figuratively speaking), playing it, having others play it... is the true reward. We love games, we love making games.
      You can tell a lot of people in the industry love paychecks instead of games, and that's why we have stuff like Zynga or EA at its worst.

      Of course, I am not trying to say that wanting to be paid for your efforts is a bad thing, far from it! But for some people, making a game is its own reward.

  27. What about non-free-to-play with f2p elements? by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 1

    say, for example, cut the rope 2, which was not free but where you had to use consumable powerups to get certain items in the levels (the "clovers") in order to unlock some levels, only after a major outcry the developer changed it so you could get access to the extra levels if you got 3 stars on all the others. You also get a 'daily gift' (usually a powerup or two) just so you are semi-forced to check in every day, and there are also other obnoxious mechanics so as soon as you spend a little bit of time thinking about a level the "level solution" powerup starts blinking annoyingly. And this is on a non-free game!

    I had insta-bought all previous cut the rope games pretty much and 3 starred most of the levels in all of them (great mechanics, om nom is cute) and I had gotten a lot of my friends into them, but I have honestly given up in disgust with cut the rope 2 (only gone through 1-2 worlds) and will not give the developer a dime for "powerups" or any further games they will release.

    In terms of "pure" f2p I am actually enjoying hearthstone, I had never played a card game before but it is definitely fun (after you lose enough games to get matched up with similar "f2p" opponents without tons of rares/legendaries), it took me losing about 15-20 games in a row before I ended up at a level where I more or less win 50-60% of the time and my opponents also only have "standard" cards. I figure blizzard is losing money on me as a player, but I figure the wow subscription I have been paying for many years more than covers this (if at all I think Blizzard should give a free card pack every month to WoW subscribers as a random gift, if it was retroactive it'd be even better ;) )

    --
    -- the cake is a lie
  28. F2P Games Are For Kids by Sperbels · · Score: 1

    F2P games are riddled with 12 year olds who smack talk everyone by calling them fags or some other juvenile insult. It gets tiresome.

  29. But they have corrupted minds and youths by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    Pinball, jazz, pirate radio, free-to-play games, and many many other readily-available forms of entertainment have done precisely that: they've corrupted social norms, minds, recreational pass-times, and priorities.

    That's been the point all along.

    Protecting the children is a perfectly valid reaction to any event or advance offering an easy-route through a scenario. In the case of free-to-play, it means being able to play games, socially, with friends, with no money, and no job. So if you've used expensive games to convince your children that they need a job to pay for things in life, then that simply won't fly anymore.

    If that lesson (needing a job to pay for things to have things) is no longer relevant, then that's fine. But if it is still relevant, then free-to-play games do indeed make raising your children more difficult. How do you intend to teach them that money buys things if they don't need money for anything for what, two decades?

    You aren't going to stop feeding them. And you won't (anymore) stop giving them a cell phone. So given a 15 year-old, going to high school, with a phone, free games, food, free school, and a bus pass, it's kind of difficult for them to want a job or career. What's the value of a job to a 15 year-old these days? It ain't movies anymore either.

    You can like the corruption, I know I like most of it these days. But it's certainly corruption -- that's how society progresses quickly, within a single generation.

    1. Re:But they have corrupted minds and youths by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Difference here isn't that a lot of people are decrying the culture of F2P, that's fine. It's the business model a lot of people have problems with.

      It's like toyetic cartoons. What's the corruption? That they're basically 20 minute advertisements for toys that has 10 minutes of advertisements for more toys. It's cynical and doesn't actually add anything to anyone's life.

      When I was a kid, I figured that one out pretty quick. Some of my peers though...

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
  30. I thought you said free by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    By "free to play" I thought it was like this actual good games that are free. Not that tossing them a few $20 for the games wouldn't be a cool thing to do, they are free games to play.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  31. Most should by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Path of Exile did it right.
    Some pay to win games could be awesome of they dropped it, but the ones I enjoyed I became a GM on to keep up with cash players without mass cash injections of my own. A few would be Ming Dynasty - Forgame now hosted on LeKool, Fantasy of Sword - LeKool, Call of Thrones - Yeepgame, Conquer Online - TQ, Evony aka Civony to name a few. Each one of these games had a extreme pay to win layout and even getting thousands of dollars worth of currency I never came close to maxing out well actually I was on CO at +12 on everything except my armor that was +11. Sadly they don't pay well so my gear came from farming waters to 110 getting the gem after rebirth then selling the char.
    .
    Ming Dynasty 1 Max gem 80,000 USD which adds up to 3,840,000 USD to socket all your gear.
    Call of Thrones maxing out would be around 38,000 USD.
    Conquer Online around 18,000 USD to max out +12
    Fantasy of Swords + 500,000 USD
    Evony - Impossible there are some players that have spent over 1,000,000 USD

    Back to POE there is none of this shit in POE sure there are cash shops but they're actively hunted by me to troll them and report their shit to PayPal. Shit it's insane I'm 98 and farming like a junkie searching for a crack rock.

  32. Not all. But enough by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    No, not all F2P games are P2W games. But enough of them that it's not worth my time sieving through the dung to find the tiny gem that might actually provide me with a bit of entertainment rather than expecting me to keep tossing coin after coin at them to stay in the loop.

    It's a bit like online advertisement. Yes, not ALL ads are obnoxious, in-your-face popups. But enough of them are to warrant the installation of an adblocker.

    Kickstarter is the other way 'round. I've spent quite a bit of coin on kickstarter projects, usually computer games. And by and large, it was money well spent. On average, they wanted somewhere between 15 and 20 bucks from me, and on average I'd wager that I got about as much entertainment out of them as I got from AAA titles. Yes, from time to time I got a dud. But that's no different from AAA titles, is it?

    I don't think we need to protect people from the evils of P2W gaming (else I'd say we should first of all protect them from shady investment businesses, something a lot MORE people ruin their life with), but painting them as the poor, misunderstood stepchild of gaming that needs more loving is a bit much.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  33. Re:H1Z1 - may be better than DayZ! from SOE by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Nice wall of plug text. But why all the text when there was just a single question you'd have to answer to make me read all the drivel in the first place:

    How do you plan to convince me that a F2P game from a huge corporation, Sony especially, is not going to be P2W?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  34. Re:Bullshit by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    There's actually plenty of game companies left. If you count all the indies that rely on a single game, it sure gets into the thousands.

    You'd be surprised how many people are willing and able to pay for entertainment if, and only if, it's worth the money. IMO, that's not the case with most high profile AAA games today. You get the same old, tried-to-death formula in a new coat. The 20th installment of FPS game A, the 50th installment of RTS B... yes, that's mostly risk free because you can rely on your fanboys that like your formula (and even though they will complain about everything you changed because it's different and about everything that stayed the same because you fail at innovation) but at the same time your game is about as interesting to me, and probably a lot of other people, as an old loaf of stale bread.

    As long as the big studios keep up with the practice of just repeating the same formula over and over and over while at the same time adding more and more obnoxious DRM to their bland crap that drives even more people away, I am not worried that smaller studios will get into trouble finding customers any time soon.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  35. Do F2P games get a fair shake? by Chas · · Score: 1

    Yeah. Because F2P is a misnomer in most.

    Basically it's tied to eastern-style grinding unless you shell out big bucks in the cash shops.
    And talking about being nickeled-and-dimed to death?
    Yeah. You WISH! Most transactions are $5, $10, $20 or more. What the fuck is "micro" about those transactions.
    That and the gambling, Things like PWE's lockbox gambling system. The boxes drop free in the game. But you have to pay to open them. And they deliver random crap. And worse, some of the gear in the game is ONLY available this way.

    This is the sort of thing that kept me AWAY from MMOs for so long.
    I was pleasantly surprised by City of Heroes and the fact that they didn't treat their gamers this way. Even when they converted to a cash shop and F2P.
    Unfortunately, nothing good lasts and those idiots at NCSoft killed the game.
    Now all that's left are a bunch of cash shop pushers.

    As such, I'll just avoid them altogether.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  36. Shadowrun retruns by drolli · · Score: 1

    Bought the app, happy I did not kickstart it. Good idea, accptably written story, but incredible hardware requirements (and even then its slow), and the gameplay just sucks. Unfinished, badly managed product at any rate.

    We all might despise the idea and enthousiats, but all software developers here know: "Real artists ship" (attributed to Steve Jobs). Getting something out of the door which is usable and focuses on the core idea, but maybe limited, is crucial for all shareware and free to play developers, so yep, the quality requirements may be different. If a free to play game is too late to catch a certain wave of game mechanics, or so the gameplay bad that nobody want to continue playing it may be worse than having 10years old graphics.

  37. Financial pressure to exploit players by Camael · · Score: 3, Informative

    Except... It's not actually true that these are all "games that are designed to exploit people for money on a continuous basis". At least some of the games that have adopted F2P models have worked very, very, hard to avoid exploiting players.

    Agreed, but the underlying problem with the f2p model is the financial pressure on its developers/publisher to milk their players, as follows :-
    1. A large majority of players play f2p games for free.
    2. A small minority of players spend money on the game.
    3. Games cost money to produce, and have ongoing expenses to maintain.
    4. When their quota/sales target is not met, developers/publishers are under pressure to make up the difference.
    5. One of the easiest ways to boost sales is to introduce items which will confer a greatly desired benefit on its purchasers. OTOH, non-buyers who cannot enjoy the greatly desired benefit will endure a comparatively degraded playing experience.

    Developers/publisher will continually be tempted to intentionally degrade the players' playing experience so as to create demand for new items that will remove the obstruction. One example is EA's infamous lawnmower tax where a previously free feature, lawnmowers was made a purchase item.

    In summary, players who play f2p games have to live perpetually with the fear that the developers/publisher may at any time modify their game in any number of ways to try to gouge more cash from them. Not all f2p games gouge their players, but the risk that they may do so in the next patch is always there.

    1. Re:Financial pressure to exploit players by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      4. When their quota/sales target is not met, developers/publishers are under pressure to make up the difference.
      5. One of the easiest ways to boost sales is to introduce items which will confer a greatly desired benefit on its purchasers. OTOH, non-buyers who cannot enjoy the greatly desired benefit will endure a comparatively degraded playing experience.

      These two aren't necessarily true.

      4. Smaller developers especially may not have things like quotas and sales targets which dictate their entire behavior. They're also more likely to be developing for fun as much as income such that $$ aren't the only consideration. And they're more likely to pick free to play as a model just because nobody will pay up front for a game/company they've never heard of.

      5. There are plenty of ways around this. Many games don't even require direct player-to-player competition. You can also segregate players so that payers and non-payers can compete in different tiers, or allow modes of gameplay which exclude or dampen the benefits of "pay to win" items. You can even allow ways for non-playing players to gain the same benefits, but in ways that are inconvenient enough the really dedicated will do it, while some others will decide they'd rather pay than put in the effort.

    2. Re:Financial pressure to exploit players by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      They *can*. But they *don't*.

      While not pushed by quotas, they are tempted by personal incomes directly proportional to in-game sales. Ther is always the incentive to grab more money, whatever it is.
      And single-player games can be (and frequently are) made equally hopeless money sinks in pursuit of progress in game, as opposed to advantage over other players. When a game requires you to spend three years to accumulate enough valuables through "free means" to avoid that one $30 payment required to progress (actual example), and this after you've invested about a month of your time to arrive at that point, this is no longer "pay if you want to gain advantage", this is "pay or GTFO."

      Once again, this is not about what game companies may do to make these games competetive and fun. This is about the ugly reality of what they actually do, with few very rare exceptions. So, no wonder if a player sees a game announced as F2P, automatically labels it a scam. Because usually it is a scam.

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      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  38. I don't accept your premise by N1AK · · Score: 1

    We've all either encountered or heard about a game company using shady business practices to squeeze every cent from their users through in-app purchases (a.k.a. microtransations, a.k.a. cash shops), or a simple pay-to-win format. But these stories don't represent all games — by a long shot. It's something endemic to shady developers and publishers, not the business model.

    It is something fundamentally wrong with the business model. Name a recent popular f2p game where the pay element isn't an issue?

    f2p is fundamentally flawed because of how people use it. The majority of people who download a f2p game are parasites with no intention of paying, the game company doesn't want these users to stay longer than it takes for them to casually enjoy it, maybe recommend it and possibly change into one of the minority of paying customers. Because most customers will never pay, the few that will have to be taken to the cleaners to make enough revenue to cover for this. For those of us who are happy to spend a moderate amount on games this is a shitty model because instead of paying $5 upfront for a good experience, we need to pay tens of dollars to get an experience that is cheapened by the purchase mechanic.

  39. "Free-to-Play" is a bullshit misnomer by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Call them what they are, "Free to Pay". Because the games are without exception designed to make you want to spend money, which you will need to do if you want to be one of the game's badasses — because you feel so pathetic in your own life that this is important, and you are so pathetic that being a badass in a videogame will make you feel better. And this dynamic is bringing in absolute truckloads of cash for some of these guys who instead of making a game, have made a cash machine.

    Some of them even make you pay twice, you have to pay for the client and then you have to pay for the upgrades, but the service is free. AKA "Fee to Pay". Developers of these games will be first against the wall etc.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  40. Re: LOTRO by Mister+J · · Score: 1

    I'd agree that Turbine have done a pretty good job with converting LOTRO to a hybrid F2P model. You can continue to subscribe and be in the same position as before F2P launched (content and slots unlocked for as long as you subscribe, except for expansions), plus you get a monthly allotment of points to spend in the store. Alternatively you can go a la carte, and buy content and slots as 1-time unlocks (and you can earn points for the store in-game - enough to unlock everything if you're willing to spend enough time grinding). I've not found there to be any instances where paid consumables/services are at all necessary - yes, you can buy buffs and pots to make things a bit easier (but in a PvE setting I don't see a problem with this), and items that will give you quick travel or reduced a grind (but these grinds are ones that existed in the game pre-F2P).

    --
    Windows moves in mysterious ways, its crashes to perform
  41. "free" to play by mriswith · · Score: 1

    As long as the "free" part stands, it usually gets a "fair shake".

    But games that force you to pay to progress, wont be treated nicely. Some games(like NFSWorld), have a free to play model, but restrict the upper levels of the game, to only paying customers. And unless you provide a way for people to grind through boredom to reach the same spot for free. Your game will probably be panned.

  42. F2P is a Slippery Slope by Zarrot · · Score: 1

    I would say a few have been designed this way and even then it's a slippery slope. As revenue starts to slip the temptation is to delve further into pay to win type purchasable. Games that use micro-transactions to sell pets, collectibles, and vanity type items are perfectly fine but very few end it there. Many free to play MMO's become simply ways to grind more purchases from the player base. Mechanics become odious or overly long if you don't purchase a boost. Raids begin to require store bought resources to keep up. Some players begin to use the store as a crutch rather than learn the game and become skillful. Some players begin to expect others to outlay store cash to power through completion. Challenge and achievement are now commodities you can buy with money. Turbine's DDO is a great example of this slippery slope. F2P started as some small bonuses and the ability to buy content in feature packs. Four years later there is a real money auction house where you can pay for the best gear in the game.

  43. What happened to Freemium? by grimJester · · Score: 1

    "Free-to-play" does not literally mean "free to play." It means a game that is specifically designed around microtransactions.

    "Freemium" used to be used for games where it's free to play but you could buy premium content for cash. Why call the new ones "free-to-play" if you have to add a footnote saying they're not free to play?

  44. You missed one. by Tempest451 · · Score: 1

    You missed one. Pay-to-Develop Basically games that stay in perpetual Beta while offering features to move the development along or special early access features for nominal fees.

  45. Re:Need something? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

    I'm reminded of Mark Cerny's thoughts on Atari and how arcade machines were run. It was completely brutal. Kill player in 3 minutes. 2 1/2 minutes was better.

    Games where everyone always died in 3 minutes didn't get repeat players and lost new players because of word of mouth. You have to have at least some people who can play for a while to entice other players to spend their money.

    Back in the day, Pole Position was one of the few games with a real limit to the amount of time you could play. Sure, there were a lot of games that could kill you in a few minutes, but those same games (Joust, Pac-Man, Tron, Robotron, Defender, etc.) could easily be played for 30 minutes on a single credit if you were good, and many hours if you were very good.

    Today, a likely reason for the demise of the arcade is because there are very few games that offer the chance of a long play time. Many games have fixed times or are simply too hard to allow long play.

  46. Re:H1Z1 - may be better than DayZ! from SOE by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Because DCUO isn't and FreeRealms wasn't?

  47. Where have I heard this before? by Minwee · · Score: 1
  48. Conflict of interest by labradore · · Score: 1

    It's simple. On the one hand there is the incentive to make the game enjoyable. On the other hand, there is an incentive to make the game less enjoyable if you don't pay. When you simply pay for access to the game, the incentives align. When you don't, the incentives are at odds. The only mitigating factor is that the game has to be enjoyable enough to get your attention in the first place.

  49. He's defending EA? by Torp · · Score: 1

    Whoever defends the current "free to play" is defending the new Dungeon Keeper and PvZ 2. You have to have serious mental problems to do that. Maybe the article author hasn't taken his medication lately?

    --
    I apologize for the lack of a signature.
    1. Re:He's defending EA? by Torp · · Score: 1

      Oh. He WORKS for EA. Go hide under a rock, worm.
      There's this gem of a presentation in the article comments on Polygon, done by the same person defending F2P: http://www.slideshare.net/bcou...

      --
      I apologize for the lack of a signature.
  50. The derision comes from implementation, of course. by Druegan · · Score: 1

    There are a lot of ways to implement "free to play". The problem arises when developers (or more likely the suits who control the company) forget that what they're developing is a *game*, and not just a "revenue stream".

    I've not gotten into mobile gaming, beyond an ad-supported word game that I've spent maybe 5 hours playing on my phone while waiting in parking lots. But I've played a few F2P online games, usually MMORPGs, and quite a few of the more "Standard model" games as well.

    Some games, like Runescape, for instance, did a decent treatment to F2P.. It's possible to play a free "version" of the game and have rather a lot of fun doing it.. but you need to be a paid subscriber to access the other 80% of the game content. I eventually got bored and wandered off to other pastures, but they got my reasonably inexpensive monthly subscription for a good several years. And it was quite worth it, from an entertainment value perspective. I could get hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of less than the cost of 1 movie.

    The other side is the "Pay to Win" model..which I abhor. I briefly got hooked on Evony.. (yes, I feel stupid admitting that).. Which was so poorly designed from a *game* perspective that it not only was impossible to "win" without paying, but it became impossible to "remotely contend" without paying a *lot*.. AND without botting nearly 24/7.

    I was even part of the "player advisory board".. which made a lot of very good, considered suggestions to the company on how to re-balance things and fix some of the serious problems from a "gameplay" perspective. The company's response was to ignore every single one of the suggestions we put forth and release a major "update" that did exactly the opposite.

    That was when I quit playing, despite the friends I had made and all the effort I had put into building my virtual kingdom. I realized that what the Developers were actually developing was a revenue stream, not a game. That was the deception. I was sold the idea of a game, not the idea of an "experiment in marketing."

    I realize that game developers need to make money. But like any company, some become scumbags in the pursuit of it. With a standard development model.. "you pays your money and takes your chances". Everybody's been burned on a crap game at least once. But studios who put out crap games in that environment don't tend to survive long. The F2P model allows for a lot more subtle and insidious douchebaggery to persist for much longer periods of time, and *that*, I think, is the real reason it gets the skepticism and derision.

  51. Micro-transactions by Xmastrspy · · Score: 1

    For me the real issue with free to play games is the amount of money they want for the so called "micro-transactions" in game. Micro to me is 10 cents, 50 cents, maybe 1 dollar. Not $500 that MechWarrior is charging!!! (yes that for a super shinny uber mech) even the cost of one of their regular mechs is something like $28 dollars when you convert their in game money "mc" to real USD. They want something like $5 for a color that you would paint your mech with!

    Blizzard wants to sell you a special pet $15 or a mount for $25??? WTF. This is AFTER you are already paid for the game $60 and paying for a monthly subscription of $13-15, and they are asking for more??? (keep in mind that when WOW had 10mil + subs and charging avg. of 14$ a month, blizzard was making around $140,000,000 a MONTH!!!! That's... One Hundred and Fourth Million dollars a month. over $1,680,000,000 a year...)

    Is it better to get 100 people to buy stuff at 1 cent or 1 person to give you $1 dollar? IMO the 1 cents guys are better because you have 100 people playing your game. and more options to sell more stuff for 1 cent to those 100 players.

    Gaming has evolved for me. I am no longer interested in shelling out hundred of dollars for just OK games. I decided to start voting with my wallet. sorry Elder Scrolls, I will play you when you go F2p and if you want any money at all from me, you better make your micro-transactions micro! Too many good games out there now on Steam that are F2P or very low cost. Those are the guys I am going to give my money to.

  52. There is no such thing as free to play by ntime60 · · Score: 1
    I've played many so called, Freemium, F2P, P2W...blah...blah...ad naseum. The new breed of FB games are there to milk the mark, er end user, out of as much cash as possible by charging for a number of moves or lives or even levels.

    There is a certain kickstarter game that is doing very well and it could potentially be a new model. A Pay to Develop model, where as it matches like minded users with programmers to make a product they like.

    The F2P community for the most part is rabid about insisting they are playing for free. Maybe so to a point, but eventually you succumb to paying for, a horse..then it becomes easier to buy other items, like weapons, armor, dying kits, houses...What this group doesn't realize, that EA does is it is a more profitable model, hence the mark is paying more to play than in a subscription model.

    I don't have a problem with companies making money, we all need to make money for our various reasons, but I also believe in fair use. The subscription model is fair use, the F2P guise is milking the people a little at a time over a broad spectrum. Hook and reel in the fish.

    I used to think we gamers were a very smart group of people, but I've decided that most gamers of today are like the rest of the sheep of the world, they don't have any math skills to figure out when they are being swindled. There is no such thing as free. It costs something to make and investors expect a return on investment and to think otherwise is insanely stupid.

  53. Re:Debunking Myths about F2P by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    Not everyone can be Valve or Blizzard, and Valve has that game free (as well as a couple other) so that they can gain a lot of Steam users, which then gives them new revenue unrelated to the game. They will even lure users to an OS where you almost cannot run games outside of Steam (I'm not putting a judgement on that, just reporting a fact)

    b. You may pay for some in game character visual-enhancement kits, but none of the money incurred goes to valve, it goes to the kit developers(so its basically not part of the business)

    Citation needed. I thought the whole business of Valve was to take a cut on everything that happened on their platform. They invented the "app store" model.

  54. Re:Debunking Myths about F2P by DrGamez · · Score: 1

    Just to clarify Point b:

    A majority of the money goes to Valve on these, but a good chunk (25%? not certain) DOES go to the creator. Valve is the only company doing F2P correctly but that isn't to say they aren't making money hand over fist.

  55. IAP is pathetic by melting_clock · · Score: 1

    Personally, I avoid any game or application that uses in app payments now, after being burned by developers. The most expensive Android game I have purchased had a single IAP to convert from a one level demo to the full game which was acceptable. When the same game was released with a "micro" IAP model, it was clear quickly that the dev had ruined the game and it would cost a lot more to complete the game. The best part was the payments were mostly for consumables that didn't carry across when starting a new game. They even removed the original game from the store... Their excuse was the usual pathetic nonsense claims of piracy with the old model which always ignores the fact that their new model harms the honest customer far more than any pirate.

    Trying a limited demo or ad supported version first and then purchasing a full version or unlocker is my preferred option. Combating intrusive Adware and Spyware from the truly evil developers means that I simply start out not trusting an app or developer at all. There are a small number of developers that have my complete trust and support. The end result is that I now only install new apps very rarely, with a firewall and other security software in place. While that saves plenty of money, it does limit access to the latest games and apps.

  56. Microtransactions by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I remember there was a time where gamers were all asking for microtransactions, and thought they would be a good idea. As it turns out, not so much,

    First off many of them turn out to me no so micro. Also in a multiplayer situation it generally makes a game unbalanced. It becomes an arms race to spend the most in order to even have a chance, which is what the developer wants. There have been a few examples that work, mostly through making the content cosmetic only.

    One of my favorite games of all time was a free one: Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory

    Now my current favorite game is also free: DOTA 2

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