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The GNOME Foundation Is Running Out of Money
An anonymous reader writes "The GNOME Foundation is running out of money. The foundation no longer has any cash reserves so they have voted to freeze non-essential funding for running the foundation. They are also hunting down sponsors and unpaid invoices to regain some delayed revenue. Those wishing to support the GNOME Foundation can become a friend of GNOME."
One can only hope.
Since they drove away all of their old friends by ignoring any and all criticisms of their design changes.
they haven't listened to customers for years...of course money will dry up and people will move on.
Your broke.
Maybe GNOME will dry up and wither away, and most likely MATE will survive - because MATE is the GNOME people want.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
get rid of both GNOME and KDE, and make XFCE behave itself and Linux might start acting more in line with the Unix philosophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
That's what happens when management uses organization to push their private political views, rather than simply ensuring usability of software they should care of. GNOME's Karen Sandler single-handedly killed GNOME.
Fuck 'em. They made the desktop environment require the monstrosity that is systemd, so I don't care if they go away entirely. GNOME was decent in the 2 series, though still never managed to not be buggy; when they moved to 3, everything went downhill HARD. Terrible UI changes that almost no one wanted, and then forcing systemd as a required dependency.
You did it to yourselves. Go become irrelevant. Viva la Fluxbox!
I know that some here on Slashdot will be at a loss for sympathy for the project being in such dire circumstance. However, the key thing that some should remember is that a lot of what the GNOME hackers do, goes into the base for many other projects as well. Much of Linux Mint is an eclectic mix of Ubuntu and GNOME. Likewise for Elementary OS.
So while we might be able to argue if this project has finally run its course, which I do want to add that the foundation running out of reserves hardly equates to the death knell for GNOME. One of the things we shouldn't do, or at least it would be in a very short sighted, is think that the actual GNOME Desktop and how ... "not so great," they've ran that ship plays into all of this. Agreed, the people in the project have become quite hard headed, but honestly which OSS project hasn't by now? However, there are a lot of people (Canonical *cough, cough*) who find their software very useful and hardly give anything back, at least to the foundation.
PS: Being using beta now for a month plus some. I honestly think it is getting better but it does need quite a bit more work. I guess I just wanted to add that after seeing all the f*** beta sigs.
Unlink yourself from systemd.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
If we honestly wanted to follow the Unix philosophy, we should add X11 to that list as well. There's nothing about X that follows the Unix philosophy any more.
I started using GNOME at version 1.4 and I really liked it. I followed the development of GNOME 2 closely and was very excited when it was finally released. I spent a lot of time checking the code out of CVS and building it before 2.0. The thing is, I was just a kid back then, I didn't have $25 for a mousepad even though I would have happily supported the project. I remember looking at the website when I was like 17 thinking how awesome it would be to have a GNOME tshirt or some kind of GNOME swag.
Fast forward a few years... Today, I could easily donate $500 but I'm not going to, since I don't use GNOME anymore. When GNOME 3 was released, my disappointment was colossal. I had to completely re-think my desktop - if it was going to change so drastically that I'd have to relearn everything, it might as well be change that made sense. So I switched to a tiling window manager called i3. If i3 project ever needs money, I'll give it to them.
But not GNOME. Sorry guys. I guess this is what happens when you alienate your users and let "user experience"-crap-level developers infiltrate your project.
You make a product that no one wants to use? You die as an organization. Fair enough.
For those of us who wish to hasten the death of GNOME, is there anything we can do?
I'm a little curious, why you bring up the link to systemd? Is it because it prevents the stack from running on BSD?
"The GNOME Foundation staff and board fell behind in their processes with being overwhelmed by administering OPW. GNOME's Outreach Program for Women is explained as "The Outreach Program for Women (OPW) helps women (cis and trans) and genderqueer get involved in free and open source software." They've had around 30 interns for their most recent cycle."
Let me translate. They were fucking off by diverging from the core project into recreational political activities unrelated to their mission.
I completely support the idea of such outreach, but if you don't have your core in order then they are best done elsewhere.
If you saw off the branch you were sitting on you have no place to seat the new folks you wanted to include.
There is no kind way to put it. GNOME fucked up due to willful stupidity. They'll see not a dime from me.
But Gnome 3 is unusable. It's been unusable since inception, and it still cuts me to pieces when I have a nice fresh install of Linux and it's buggered up by Gnome 3 making it completely unusable. Microsoft came in for tons of criticism because they removed the Start menu in Windwos 8, and look, two years later, it's back in 8.1. The Gnome Foundation came in for tons of criticism because they took all the usable bits of Gnome 2 and put them in the bin to produce Gnome 3. And now, five years later, Gnome 3 is still exactly the same. I think running out of money and going out of business is a position that the Gnome foundation has struggled hard to achieve. But, by gosh, they've done it.
"Is the Chief Priest an Offlian? Do dragons explode in the wood?"
Unfortunately Gnome 3 pushed me back to ovlwm and xfce. I have a feeling there are a significant number of users (and posters in this thread) in my situation.
It's a little sad because a few years ago, the Linux Desktop was really really great (especially with Gnome 2 + compiz fusion). These days, I really don't feel that way. I wish I could get myself to like KDE.
Wasn't Sun the primary funder of Gnome development?
A sucker is born every minute, I guess.
Incompetents like Karen Sandler who squandered funds on her pet sexual politics project are why GNOME should be defunded..
The PEOPLE who let this happen deserve to be punished for betraying the user base and deliberately wasting donated money on bullshit.
Those of you who don't suck, jump ship and code for a program which deserves it. The "leadership" will have GNOME on their resumes and no one where they hire
on next will remember their fuckups.
Thanks for nothing Karen. You contribute nothing to women and cis people by conforming to the stereotype!
The basic mental malfunction that leads from Gnome3 from Gnome2 is the same as the one that lead from Gnome1 to 2. I guess not as many people used unix key-bindings and window manager choice as some of the things they have broken more recently, but I did and the project has been dead to me ever since they made it clear they broke those things on purpose and would stick by that decision.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Too bad non-profits can't benefit from this ;)
-Alex. http://bit.ly/1iVPtfA
I'm still burnt from the 2.x to 3.x UI changes. I'd be happier if they kept the 2.x look but improved the underpinnings of the Gnome system. Between XFCE and Cinnamon I'm not really concerned about Gnome anymore. Honestly I'd rather see more resources go in to one of those two than Gnome.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
I used to use and donate to Gnome, but they kept on making it less and less configurable, or hiding configuration options in arcane places. I switched over to the KDE project that's the last poweruser desktop standing, and they get all my donations now. It's not a huge amount of money compared to what a big company could donate, but if I'm gonna support something, it won't be a desktop that charged off the cliff of dumb-it-all-down.
Gnome3 might be fine for my grandmother. It's not fine for me. KDE stumbled a little around KDE4, but has picked up the ball and run with it since then.
Temper this with the fact that I'm one of the few people who actually like Gnome 3, enough that I switched from Ubuntu to Fedora just to not have to replace Unity. But, fine, people are angry that they didn't respect their user base, when what their user base wanted was yet another rehash of the win 95 desktop layout. The Gnome developers actually tried to do something new in desktop UIs, they actually tried to innovate. And as with any innovation, some of the things they did worked, and some didn't. Gnome 3.0 had a lot of problems, but the potential was there and some of us saw it. As of Gnome 3.8 there is a ton more polish. And a lot of that polish came from user feedback. No they didn't listen to feedback that said "Bring back Gnome 2! No change evar!" They just continued to refine what they had. And they laid down a ton of backend libraries that allowed things like Cinnamon to exist. If they had adopted Cinnamon as one of a few official skins for Gnome 3, would people support them then? Because in terms of development there wouldn't be any change. Some devs continue to work on the new UI, some devs on the rehashed old UI, many on the shared core. Just like today.
I'm going to go contribute to a project that has done amazing things for open source.
For those of us who wish to hasten the death of GNOME, is there anything we can do?
Yes. Contribute money so they don't change the way they do business.
After I realized that no matter what the existing user base would say, the GNOME 3 developers weren't going to make Gnome Shell suitable for the good old desktop work flow (besides making it impossible to have GNOME 2 installed together with the new version ...), I started looking elsewhere. I tried several desktop environments, and then sticked to Cinnamon, a "no nonsense, it just works" shell based on the Gnome libraries.
What I noticed almost immediately was that, in spite of the GNOME devs making fun of people jumping ship and waving them goodbye, Linux Mint received more donation money in a month than GNOME in 5-6.
So there you go guys, people have voted with their feet deserting you, and with their wallets funding other, more worthwile open source projects: I'm tempted to help, just because Cinnamon is based on Gnome libraries, but the conclusion is that you reap what you have sown. No sympathy from this ex-GNOME user.
Rehdon
...cockup like Gnome 3?
I'm not.
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
For those of us who wish to hasten the death of GNOME, is there anything we can do?
Yes. Contribute money so they don't change the way they do business.
Agreed; bail them out. They will not learn any lesson from their poor decisions and will perpetuate them.
This same divergence from their core mission was responsible for the downfall of Mandriva who spent their IPO money on "remote learning" technologies and abandoned their community of loyal users to "do it their own way" because they "knew better".
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
linux user here.
used kde3 and gnome 2. don't like gnom3 at all.
the "dick" move was to continue using same (library etc.) filenames in gnome3 as in gnome2.
this made the co-existence of gnome 2 and gnom3 on the same computer impossible.
fortunately some nice person renamed all the gnome2 files so that now MATE and gnom3 can co-exist
on the same computer (why would you do that anyway?).
also a "dick" move was by distros to move to "oh shinny, new" gnome3 waaayyy to early.
as mentioned above, the impossibility of g2 and g3 co-existing on same computer forced distros hand
to abandon gnome 2 and move to gnome 3 to still look "new and improved".
Reading thru above comments i was also wondering why this "systemD" ever got a foot hold and now i know.
so gnome3 gave us a shitty desktop metaphor AND a irrelevant SSD-world fast booting systemD?
if not for above i would have said that everybody has the right to program anything and experiment but ...
with this tactical maneuvering to make gnome2 and gnome3 incompatible and shove systemD down peoples throats
i'm hoping this politics and...? dies : ))
In a better world the user would have had the choice to try gnome3 on the same computer with gnome2 AND try systemD...
I'm not. Sadly, this is precisely what happens when non technicians do technical decisions on a tech Foundation.
Gnome Desktop 2 was one of the main reason I jumped ship from Windows and spend 2 excelent years developing on a Linux box. Almost everything just works, and the few that didn't, I managed to tweak it into production with little effort - I'm a tech guy, after all.
And then came Gnome Desktop 3. And I decided that the migration efforts would be better spent on MacOS X - that I'm using since that days. No regrets.
I think the time for a MATE Foundation has come. :-)
This is a screaming message to every Open Source Foundation around (yes, Mozilla, I'm talking to you): do what your users *NEED* you to do, not what your non techies "advisors" *want* you to do.
There's no space on a tech industry for "politically correct" tech solutions that doesn't cut it!
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p...
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
Sorry I've gone to MATE. Gnome is getting less and less user configureable.
Users might be more inclined to support them if they stopped ignoring what users want.
Well looking at Gnome's website. The problem seems to be mainly cash flow not so much a huge drop in funding. What they are saying is that OPW (outreach for women has been popular beyond expectations, they are spending more than expected and not everyone is paying their invoices).
So what you see is:
Invoicing our Advisory Board members for their annual subscription fees
Invoicing our conference sponsors
Following up on unpaid invoices more actively
Taking on the Executive Director's administrative and fundraising duties
Invoicing the OPW sponsoring organizations for the upcoming round immediately
Increasing our general fundraising efforts for the Foundation and its events
Some of the OPW administrative workload is being shifted from Foundation employees to the OPW organizing team
Which is basically a cash flow problem. If there were domestic this would be an easy problem to solve by borrowing against receivables. For an international charity I'm not sure what the rules are.
No worries. The G in Gimp stand for GNU not Gnome. The Gimp predates Gnome by quite a lot. The only tie that binds them is that Gimp donations are handled by the Gnome foundation, which is easily changed. Read this page here:
Donating to The Gimp
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Well that and GNOME relies on GTK, which was the GIMP ToolKit at one point in time.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Being honest, they only seem to be developing Gnome 3 for themselves and the few loyal users that remain with them. They are not interested in the rest of the community using Gnome anymore, they sent that message clearly several times, and we the past users understood. Yet, they ask for money with the excuse that some of the components are being used by other environments and/or applications.
I don't personally mind at this point if gnome dies, they should have seen what happened to KDE 4 and take note. They should have see what happened with Windows 8 and read the writing on the wall. Even Microsoft has changed course by now while Gnome is still heading to irrelevance.
If I were in their shoes, I'd simply change course, post a public apology, announce Gnome 4 and bring back everything that users are missing. That should give them enough support to stay alive. I'm sure there is still time for them. But as I said before, I don't think they even care so let them die.
Perhaps people who give a shit will fork it.
Like this? http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
Circumcision is child abuse.
Regardless of how we feel about GNOME 3, we should donate out of principle (in my opinion, of course). I use and depend on GNOME - in one form or another - everyday, so I will be donating ASAP. It won't be much, but it's more than they have now.
In Putin's Russia she'd be killed. When you steal someone's money you steal their time. This woman stole alot of men's time. Russia is a better place. Perhaps they'll have some mercy on us. In response to the comment that "doesn't exist": Robin Stormy Peters (0) Anonymous Coward | 2 hours ago | (#46740551) it was A woman who ruined the gnome foundation, Robin Stormy Peters, Chairwoman and her sleazey toadie assistant David "Lefty" Schlesinger who was paid by the ACCESS corporation to sit on this board and troll RMS and otherwise spread ignorance and chaos Robin Peters is the finest in Corporate Whore there is, she isn't much else...
Lat me get this right (from their wiki page):
GNOME, as the lead organization, has been responsible for managing the finances for the entire effort. However, as the program grew, the processes did not keep up. The changes were not tracked effectively from the point when other organizations joined the OPW. This impacted not only our ability to manage the OPW administration, but also to keep up with the core financial tasks of the Foundation -- tasks which already needed the full attention of the Foundation's employees and the board.
So other organizations accepted liabilities which were automatically transferred to GNOME Foundation? or they plainly lost track? Or they did not caclulate before what limit for accepting students there is?
Or WHAT?
Did they - by spending money on a side track -fuck up an organization which should - given the situation about people not bein happy with they main project - focus on stakeholder management? I mean it's not like that job is not important for the FOSS community. And wo me it seems that the exeution of the job leaves some things to be desired.
Actually, that's not it. You fork the code from a point BEFORE it goes to hell.
The majority of their revenue is from the US military. That has a certain type of impact.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Gnome has become an abysmal piece of drek not worth the effort of spitting on. The only reason I ever use it is because some configuration options for various distros are only released for the Gnome desktops on those distros. I use KDE day to day, with the sole exception of the Rhythmbox music player (which itself is just a "lesser of evils" choice -- every Linux music player I've tried sucks in some way or other.)
Gnome 2 was usable. I liked Gnome 2. I would have happily stuck with Gnome 2 and reasonable enhancements to it.
But nooooooo, the development team for the Gnome project knew "better" than everyone else how a computer should operate. They totally screwed the power user with Gnome 3, creating an unholy abortion that doesn't work well with mouse and keyboard and doesn't work well with a touchscreen. It is the worst of "both worlds", and even implements a number of widget metaphors that testing showed people didn't like as far back as 1990.
The Gnome dev team is full of egotistical idiots, and I, for one, can't wait to see them all hit the curb.
The software is open source. If the project dies, the useful bits will be picked up and forked, and all the drek they've shoved down user's throats can wither away and die a horrible, painful, screaming death as far as I'm concerned.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
There is simply no end to the complaining about the latest GNOME desktop. It is exactly as Linus Torvalds said it was. It's an unholy abomination and most people don't want it. They should have kept the old desktop and offered an alternative to see how people wanted to go. But no. They just had to annoy the hell out of so many people. I want to say "let them die" but then I wonder what would happen with the GNOME2 stuff... is MATE being actively developed? If so maybe the likes of RedHat will shift over to supporting and developing MATE/GNOME2 again.
I don't know what KDE is like now, but I was seriously annoyed by KDE at first -- everything with a damned K in it and giant frikken icons that looked like they were designed by mechanical (excuse me, mekanikal) engineers. Maybe it's better now... who knows... I'm still kinda angry that GNOME betrayed the usership so badly.
In my experience, KDE4 problems were mostly huge and unavidable bugs, which caused crashes, slowness and weid behaviour. The workflow actually improved for me and the compositor allowed me to have dozens of windows open without havign to see them draw when I changed virtual desktops. I still use KDE, though feel the oxygen style is not much in style any more.
I can verify this, APK posts off topic content about hosts files.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Kasbar went away. Panel options like user hiding went away. KDE made design choices that negatively impacted my use (and now lack of use) with KDE. Wasn't that it was buggy, it became something that I didn't want, full stop.
Nobody wans Windows 8, but at least Microsoft is deeply committed to supporting the previous version well into the future.
I used Ubuntu on the desktop extensively in the past, but switched to Windows 7 for work convenience. Recently, I tried to go back... around version 12.10. Unity is total garbage, installing Gnome didn't help at all. KDE has an more classic looking environment, but it is otherwise generally a turd. They say us users are just stupid for not blindly embracing the new thing. Today, I still use Ubuntu extensively through the only useful interface it provides... BASH.
At this point I want to donate money to someone else, then send The Gnome Foundation a letter explaining how much, and why.
It's almost as if GNOME and Unity and all of that are like a precursor to Obamacare or something.
Not quite. Gtk and Gnome appeared because Qt was originally proprietary. The reason why Gnome became "the default", though, was because enterprise distros like RedHat pushed for it - and that was because Gtk and Gnome were both LGPL, so closed-source software could link against them. This was not the case with Qt, which was open sourced for a long time, but was GPL rather than LGPL.
I wonder if this situation will make them ask themselves "what has gone wrong"?
I'd suggest they should look into why they've pissed everybody off - I'm sure people will be forthcoming with answers. Here's a link with some basic responses.
There is nothing wrong with the foundation. We're doing fine.
the ethernet is back in GNOME 3.12. I don't know what F3 on nautilus is.
Hey, you hurt my feelings. I thought I always got a hat tip in the 'known and admitted trolls' category.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
We do manage their money since they asked us to.
KDE's problem is that distros just packaged it just because it was 4.0 even though it was advertised that it was a preview release.
The OPW program is self funded, but sometimes not everyone get invoiced. We are doing just fine. It's just a temporary problem.
If I were in their shoes, I'd simply change course, post a public apology, announce Gnome 4 and bring back everything that users are missing. That should give them enough support to stay alive. I'm sure there is still time for them. But as I said before, I don't think they even care so let them die.
Or, hell, just add back most of the configuration options they removed from the system. I know a blank screen is trendy nowadays but sometimes I just want to look at a screensaver, y'know?
I'll become a friend of GNOME when they start listening to me, or anyone.
Are you talking about things like this?
https://mail.gnome.org/archive...
https://mail.gnome.org/archive...
https://mail.gnome.org/archive...
Problem is... RMS *is* rude. But he's (almost the time) right too. But he can be wrong sometimes:
https://mail.gnome.org/archive...
Thing is: dealing with RMS *is very hard*. I'm not saying you're lying or whatever, but at least in the mails above, RMS was being... how I can say... RMS was being RMS, defending his points of view without caring about people's feelings. This is not necessarily wrong, but this commonly leads to people getting angry with you.
(I know what I'm talking, I'm a bit like RMS too.)
It would help to understand what you're meaning if you could exemplify with a link.
Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
There was a time when they were open to criticism, to help, and even to patches.
this was before Gnome 3 was released.
since then they've been as hard to interact with as Microsoft - arbitrary nonsensical designs foisted on the public with no way to work with older, functional systems and little or no support for state management, and little or no support beyond some simple cosmetic levels for hardware newer than 1990s era desktops.
when you have devs and designer's saying its my way or no way ignoring the user base its no wonder they jump ship and take there bank cards with them. lets not forget the sexest ceo draining the bank account for her own agenda. kinda reminds me of xfree86 but worse. the effect on the nix world would hardly be felt Ubuntu will be switching to qt anyways we got project like mate bringing back the gnome 2 look and feel then you got kde xfce lxde e17 and yes even friggin unity.
As they say: With developers like these, who needs enemies ?
My health health insurance plan just got canceled for not being ACA approved, it did not have pediatric dental coverage. The ACA approved replacement (think same coverage limits/deductible/copay) costs around $600, when I was paying around $250 before. Good thing that the children I do not have will be covered at the dentist!
The only thing we know... [unprovable allegations which I am not even going to quote, lest they be misattributed to me]
No, we do *not* know any such thing.
I want to make it 100% clear that:
(a) I did *not* post this
(b) I *completely and utterly disavow* any statements contained therein that are not *a matter of public record*.
(c) I have no need or desire to make any false accusations against APK or anyone else. His record on the public WWW already speaks quite loudly for itself and thus there is no need for fabrication.
(d) I *completely and utterly disavow* any calls to harass APK (or anyone else) IRL. In fact, I am going to change my sig now, because I think I've made my point, and I do not want to be seen as inciting or encouraging such behaviour.
Perhaps you meant well, but *please* do not do this again. You are crossing an ethical and possibly legal line here, and you are *not* doing me any favours by doing so. The truth is already there to be seen by anyone who cares to look. And I do *not* want to be associated, directly or indirectly, with any allegations regarding APK's behaviour that cannot quickly and easily be proven by anyone with an Internet connection and a brain.
THANK YOU!
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
"Are you intentionally trying to act out and be a dick to everyone merely to get your jollies?" - you seem to be doing that... so its pot kettle black
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Seems I am in a minority, but I like gnome 3's simplicity. I don't like how much resources it consumes, but I can not have everything. I like gnome 2 as well, but I decided that I should not be wedded to any particular GUI and that I should use different ones to maintain awareness of strengths and weaknesses. I have used Unity, mate, gnome2, gnome3, xfce, kde (not so much) and I try others from time-to-time, but I seem to prefer gnome3 right now. If Gnome had supported both v2 and v3 I suspect no one would care, but they seemed to abandon v2 and that upset it's community. Gnome 3 does have a fallback mode that seems very close to v2 in look and feel - is this so bad?
I wont be donating, for the simple fact i dont want to promote bad programming.
You know the programming that requires a mass of "i'am not sure if i need this, but what the hell" dependencies.
You want me to fund you for that, and, ignoring your community?
Take a leaf out of LXDE's book. Care about optimizations and simple functionality. Thats all we want and all we need (oh yeah, and a UI for a PC, not a tablet).
Listen to your users.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Everybody knows that gnomes have a cauldron filled with gold coins well hidden somewhere...
Don't both suse and red hat enterprise variants use Gnome as their default desktop? Don't they contribute to the project?
I actually like GNOME. And what you write is right!
But the developers of GNOME are constantly removing important and loved features and options. In most cases it looks like the responsible persons didn't build on the foundations, but instead destroy the foundations. Which than get replaced it by half-ready-look-at-my-self-esteem-projects!
* Nautilus: Find-As-You-Type (~Navigate-As-You-Type), Split-Screen, Empty-file
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=680118 # epic..
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=676838
* Terminal: Transparency, Keep-Working-Directory
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698544 # read between the lines and see the context: the feature was removed because the "current maintainer just didn't like it"
* Suspend-To-RAM (LID-CLOSE)
* Control-Center: File-dialog for choosing a wallpaper (Hell?! WTF! I have to use dconf or tweak-tool for this now)
Even if the community tries to fix it itself, the answer is that the developers want break even further things. Even the other developers seem not to like this:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=721968
Well partitally it looks like, that some of the developers noticed that they need to change the attitude inside the project:
http://blogs.gnome.org/sri/2014/01/01/strip-the-soul/
You :-)
Sigh. Standard ignorant Slashdot commenting, perhaps you should read up about OPW before making stuff up.
Here's how it works. An organisation such as KDE decides to participate in OPW and so finds some sponsors to pay the US$5,500 stipend for each intern. In KDE's case we found one of our corporate sponsors who was willing to pay. The participating organisation collects the sponsorship money and pays this to the Gnome Foundation who then pays the interns. The Gnome Foundation also charges the participating organisation an admin fee to cover their expenses in running the program. There are at least 18 organisations who have participated in OPW in this way, including Mozilla, VideoLAN, Fedora, and the Linux Foundation. In the last round there were 30 interns from 8 organisations, only 3 interns were from Gnome.
There's two problems with this:
1) All the money passes through the Gnome Foundation accounts, making it appear they have spent 25% of their income on OPW, when in fact it isn't really an income or an expense to the Gnome Foundation, e.g. last round they paid out US$165,000 of which only US$16,500 was their own money, the rest was paid on behalf of the other orgs.
2) The program got so successful so fast that the Gnome Foundation's internal financial processes couldn't cope, they had to pay the interns before they had received all the sponsorship money from the participating organisations, and they used their own cash reserves to cover the gap. Once the participating orgs pay up, the Gnome Foundation will be back to normal again.
Anyone who's ever run a small business will recognise this as a classic cash-flow crisis from growing too big too fast before your admin has a chance to catch up. The lesson here is that the Gnome Foundation needs to set up a separate set of books for OPW and work harder to get the other orgs to pay the sponsors money up front.
So those of you slandering Karen Sandler claiming she's "stolen" money from Gnome for her own personal agenda really have some apologizing to do.
One other point to make is that the Gnome Foundation, just like the KDE eV, has absolutely no say over the direction of development of Gnome, they are just there to provide financial support to the direction the developers choose to take.
John Layt, KDE eV member.
I really enjoy XFCE but i'm going to switch over to a gnome 3 session right now because I'm a masochist. Wish me much endurance /.
Let's get something absolutely straight, right now, AlexAndy--If you're talking about the nasty accusations made by some AC that I refused even to quote--I summarise here what I said there in response to that AC post:
-That post was not made by me.
-I have no knowledge whatsoever of who did make it (in all honesty, I can't even hazard a reasonable guess),
-I do not appreciate whoever it was attempting to "help" me by doing that, and
-I asked them not to do it again.
I think that response makes these things extremely clear.
I absolutely do consider you a crank, a spammer, a troll, a bully, a liar, and a bit of a nutjob; and on those points--as I've stated elsewhere--I think your record speaks for itself.
You may well be one of those hobbyist programmers who actually knows a bit about what they're doing. I've not used Windows on a regular basis in nearly a decade and have forgot most of what I once knew about Windows programming, all those MS certs I got ca. 1996-2001 notwithstanding. So I'm not very qualified to judge on Windows specifics, and you'll notice that I've not tried to do so.
But none of this changes the fact that you seem hell-bent on proving the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory at least a couple of times a day. Regardless of whatever qualifications that you do or do not have, you can't alter the trail of absolutely unconscionable behaviour you've left all over the Internet for most of the last ten years, nor the fact that you refuse to be held accountable for any of it.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
You are still a crank, a troll, and a bully.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
It's almost as if GNOME and Unity and all of that are like a precursor to Obamacare or something.
If you like your Gnome 2 you can keep you Gnome 2?
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
How can I follow you around (not that I would want to)? You never log in, and thus you've no posting history to track.
If you are not a troll/stalker/bully, you can prove it by immediately ceasing to respond with trolls/attacks every single time I post.
But you won't, because that's what you are--not just here, but on other sites as well. It's all right there, for anyone with access to Google, and a brain.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Look, we have too many projects in Open Source. We don't need GNOME, KDE, Fluxbox, Blackbox, and dozens of other UIs.
Cooperation, not competition, is what will benefit Open Source projects most.
Think about it. What if all the GNOME and KDE developers and testers had been one on a single desktop? Lets call it OneDesktop. What if all the light-weight desktop makers were working on making OneDesktop have a light-weight install. The OneDesktop is built for addons. Then the bloat becomes well-designed addons.
It isn't just the coding either? One documentation set, one set of tests, one set of training videos.
And integration would become awesome, because there would be one API.
Open Source projects should compete against each other LESS.
Your reputation as a troll? That's all over the Net, and it wasn't me who put it there.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Let me explain something to you, since you never log in. You get to see my posting history (anybody can). As a logged-in user, I receive notifications of responses made to my posts. Starting a couple of weeks ago, every time I've posted, I've got a message in my account's Message Centre informing me of an AC reply to that post shortly thereafter. For EVERY post I've made during that span, there's been at least one AC reply from you. Sometimes more than one. None of these replies have had anything to do with the topic at hand, but they've all contained all manner of personal attacks against me.
This is known as "harassment". It might also qualify as "stalking".
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I'm sorry but that argument is past it's due date. Gnome 3 has been out for years and the hate didn't stop.
In comparison, It did in great measure for Ubuntu+Unity, which has now much wider acceptance than when it was released.
Gnome 3 was simply not able to revert the hate and is heading directly to irrelevance.
So the whole world's out to get poor little AlexAndy because he's always right and everyone else is always wrong?
Nahhhh... I don't think so.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Having tried KDE 4.1, 4.2, etc. that was not the problem, at least for me. Panels losing options, Kasbar disappeared and I never did figure out what the "semantic desktop" was. But hey, plasmoids everywhere and configuration was no longer easy. I'm still looking for the spiritual successor to KDE 3.5.
"Those wishing to support the GNOME Foundation can become a friend of GNOME."
And if we just want Gnome 3.0 and Unity and friends to catch a clue and toddle off? Is there a "Gnome 2.X was good, but the current garbage is just that" organization? I think it would get a lot of supporters. Maybe we can get Cinnamon named the official successor.
The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
It's almost as if GNOME and Unity and all of that are like a precursor to Obamacare or something.
If you like your Gnome 2 you can keep you Gnome 2?
Yeah, but it will need to be made Accessible Computer Act compliant. This includes removing the taskbar, and generally making applications 10x harder to find than they were before. ACA compliant GNOME 2 will take four hours to install, when it used to only take 20 minutes.
Yes, but the initial release made a lot of people upset. After that, of course, the first couple of releases aren't going to be great either. It takes time for software to mature.
Um, no. That's not quite what happened, AlexAndy, and you bloody well know it. (And don't bother pretending you're not him.)
What actually happened was that you spent a day or two going through about 2 weeks' worth of my posts *in reverse order*, and posting off-topic trolls in reply to each and every one of them.
You might not be aware of how things actually work around here, since you never log in, so let me explain a couple of things... You get to see my account's posting history (anybody can, even AC trolls). As a logged-in user, I receive a notification of each and every response made to any of my posts. Starting a couple of weeks ago, every time I've posted, I've got a message in my account's Message Centre informing me of an AC reply to that post shortly thereafter. For EVERY post I've made during that span, there's been at least one AC reply from you. Sometimes more than one. None of these replies have had anything to do with the topic at hand, but they've all contained all manner of personal attacks against me.
This is known as "harassment". It might also qualify as "stalking". Since you're fond of legal terms like "libel", I suggest you consider those as well, Smart Guy.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
It's quite entertaining to watch you talking to yourself, as if no-one could tell. Just so you know.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
It only takes a minute to leave. I think you have too much confidence that they'll come back. Maybe some will, I didn't, I doubt I will.
Does that really matter? I'd think that if she believes in GNU's 4 freedoms, it's good enough. She doesn't need to be a good accountant or manager; she just needs to be free (as in libre). If she's that, she'll fit right in with the FSF and its front organizations like the SFC.
One thing I haven't understood: if RedHat lives mainly off server revenues, and servers mainly work off the CLI/bash, why are they so invested in the development & maintenance of a DE? I can understand that in the past, Caldera backed KDE and RedHat GNOME, but that's ancient history now. So why doesn't RedHat just focus on its server products, and not bother about the GUI products at all?
Give them a petition thanking them for their contributions to Women's outreach, and encourage them to contribute even more }:-)
I have no further comment.
Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
The war IS over. No one is using Gnome 3 except from a very small niche and the trend hasn't reverted.
Cinnamon, Unity and even Mate are much more popular.
I actually use gnome 3, and I'd hate to see it gone. I think even with its problems, its the future.
Sure they made some bad decisions.
Good it works for you. I don't know if your last paragraph referred to the OPW or the UI. I don't really have strong opinions one way or the other about their getting involved with the OPW, but to me the main bad decision was that they essentially made Gnome 3 into something completely different, while removing as many features as possible. Many people, including me, used Gnome because they basically liked how it worked. The current Gnome 3 should have been a fork, which could very well have been managed by the same people. They could have sanctioned that the current Mate devs managed *their* version, still under the Gnome umbrella.
Their attitude when confronted with the reality of the majority of users' opinions certainly don't garner much sympathy from me, either. If they had acted in a different manner, and certainly if they had gotten rid of their attitude, they would have had many more supporters now when they're in financial straits.
Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors!
All which use GNOME technologies. Mate is moving to GTK3, so they'll be using all our libraries they'll just do a different design than shell. Cinnamon is not using shell, but they are using GTK+ and other bits. Unity will use GNOME technologies until they finally port to QT.
But you don't get credit for Mate and Unity and Cinnamon. All of them (well Unity is its own weird story) were created out of dislike of the GNOME experience. So now we have more fragmentation then before. GNOME has less influence then before. But GNOME developers and designers seem to think that they should get the same pull as before even though they have shed a great percentage of their users. You keep getting forked, it is silly to call that a good thing. It is also getting silly to point out that not everyone was happy with the transition to GNOME 2.0. That version was not forked. The press was not nearly as bad. And most telling, 3 years later peoples reactions to it was not still negative. Gnome 3: still most users, former users, and potential users are still complaining. Rather than claiming that there are a silent majority of happy users, you might want to take that as a _hint_.
PS: Sorry I keep coming at you. I'm starting to feel a bit like an ass. You do a great job engaging. To me you are the GNOME person that seems to at least is trying to listen to people who aren't happy with GNOME. The people who are representing GNOME on lwn.net could very much use lessons from you on engagement.
I don't want GNOME apps or KDE apps or Mate apps, I just want some nice apps that work well on Linux.