Apple De-Certifies Monster Cables After Lawsuit Against Beats

An anonymous reader writes: Since 2005, Monster cables have been licensed under Apple's "Made For iDevice" program, which lets cable manufacturers put a logo on their product signifying they work with Apple products. Now, Apple has revoked that certification. In January of this year, Monster sued Beats, accusing its founders of fraud. Beats was acquired by Apple in 2014, and Monster is accusing Apple of bullying them by terminating the licensing deal. Monster's general counsel said the move would "significantly disrupt Monster's business and that the two companies had worked well for years, with Monster paying Apple more than $12 million in licensing fees since 2008."

Comments

This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

It's inevitable and it's going to happen more. They are both from the dark side so who cares for any of these frauds. This type of thing will happen more often because of the IP Protection racket the government is running and also because these companies are going to increasingly run into each other due to this protection racket. The whole stack of cards is in it's last era.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

It's inevitable and it's going to happen more. They are both from the dark side so who cares for any of these frauds. This type of thing will happen more often because of the IP Protection racket the government is running and also because these companies are going to increasingly run into each other due to this protection racket. The whole stack of cards is in it's last era.

Lemme guess, you live in your parent's basement in Wyoming from where you direct your ongoing war against evil corporations.

Re:This was always going to happen

[jedidiah]

No. He just has a realistic understanding of the Cult of Ayn Rand and what that means for corporate governance.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm more impressed by your apparent encyclopedic knowledge of ancient Penny Arcade comics than by your childish attempt at trolling.

Re:This was always going to happen

[NatasRevol]

realistic understanding of the Cult of Ayn Rand

If there ever was an oxymoron....

Re: This was always going to happen

[firewrought]

Actually, Ayn Rand's own admirers were calling themselves "The Collective" in her own lifetime. It may have been intended as a tongue-in-cheek thing, but the cultivation of dogma and ideology was (and is still) very real. http://crooksandliars.com/john...

Re:This was always going to happen

[Archangel Michael]

Typical Anti Ayn Rand rant.

The problem isn't Ayn Rand's viewpoint, it is that reality is skewed by Corporations creating laws to benefit themselves. Thus proving that Government should not be involved in economics, since the moment it is, it is corrupted by its own involvement.

In this case, government protection racket (dressed up as IP law) has created a case where nobody knows anything. I would suggest that Any Rand would say that the three (two now) companies should sue themselves into mutually assured destruction over IP rights that are tenuous at best, letting better, more agile companies to come in and save the customers.

As far as I can see, Apple, Beats and Monster are three of a kind over priced status symbols. let them market themselves that way. And all the Sheeple will come and pay way too much for crappy products. The smart people will pay less for better products.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you even listen to yourself?

I will give only 1 point in favor Any Rand: The idea itself, that everyone should be the master of their own destiny/fortune. That I can go with. However the entire abanding of the social safety net is something that only very stupid civilizations do. Without it, you end up with countries like Syria and Iran taking it to logical extremes and just outright killing people who don't believe in the same sky fairy.

On the Other side of the coin, you have North Korea where the government runs everything to the point that it's own people either have to agree 100% with the government, or they face death in prison.

The government should get out of the way when it comes to regulations that stifle competition, and only get in the way when it harms the environment/population (eg the common property.) Do we want a single company owing all the broadcasters, cable networks, and film studios? (That's going to eventually be Disney at this rate) No. The government should mandate that there must be a minimum of 5 competitors that each service must be available from, otherwise the government will set the price ceiling. They government should not be picking winners and losers.

But to bring the topic back up. Monster Cable produces nothing of value that a Chinese counterfeiter can't produce for pennies. So they are within their rights to have interfere in the market place if they have a superior product, but that's not really the case at all. Very few cables are worth the money they are set at, and most of that cost is in the license (eg HDMI) rather than acquiring exotic materials for it.

Re: This was always going to happen

[TwoEyedJack]

Of course it was ironic. Objectivism is a celebration of the individual. Rand absolutely detested all forms of collectivism.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

everyone should be the master of their own destiny/fortune

The key word here is should. If you happen to be in the right place, at the right time, with the right people, the right assets and make the correct guess--congratulations on being able to master your own destiny/fortune. For the rest of us who are working our ass off on a daily basis, we don't actually have the money of power to do that. Sure we have some control, but that mastery is only transitive and we're subject to the whims of those with power. And by power I mean money.

Re:This was always going to happen

[harrkev]

Just a comment on the "status symbol" thing.

How many times have you seen a iPhone enclosed in a big sturdy case designed to protect the thing from nuclear armageddon? And on these cases, how many times do they have a big cut-out for the Apple logo on it? Heaven forbid that the person standing next to you would fail to notice the Apple logo!

No, how many times have you seen a similar thing on a case for any other phone?

This just proves that some people don't just want an iPhone... they want everybody around them to know that they have an iPhone.

I am still waiting for the Apple shoes and matching purse to show up.

Re:This was always going to happen

[kenai_alpenglow]

Your shoes: http://www.nicekicks.com/2013/... And purse: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UT... (Not exactly matching though)

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

In this case, government protection racket (dressed up as IP law) has created a case where nobody knows anything. I would suggest that Any Rand would say that the three (two now) companies should sue themselves into mutually assured destruction over IP rights that are tenuous at best, letting better, more agile companies to come in and save the customers.

This has very little to do with IP law. While there are a lot of stupid IP laws and some big related problems out there, this is not one of them.

Monster can still say their cables work with Apple equipment, they just can't say that they've been certified by Apple. What does IP law have to do with Monster being unable to force Apple to give their approval to something? And probably a bigger deal than just the certification itself, but Apple will no longer carry Monster stuff in online store or recommend it in official lists. What does IP law have to do with forcing some other company to recommend or sell your product?

Re: This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Objectivism is a celebration of the selfish individual.

FTFY

Rand absolutely detested all forms of collectivism.

Maybe, maybe not. Rand detested vertical collectivism. Her position on horizontal collectivism is by no means clear.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical Anti Ayn Rand rant.

The problem isn't Ayn Rand's viewpoint, it is that reality is skewed by Corporations creating laws to benefit themselves. Thus proving that Government should not be involved in economics, since the moment it is, it is corrupted by its own involvement.

In this case, government protection racket (dressed up as IP law) has created a case where nobody knows anything.

I look forward to your dissertation, in which you explain how the US Government, is replaced by USAGOVINC, a privately owned and operated company, shares allocated in proportion to citizen's wealth, is a panacea for corporate rule. Or were you just saying burn it all down? Because a lot of people are OK with that.

Re:This was always going to happen

[SpankiMonki]

Typical Anti Ayn Rand rant.

So a two sentence post (with one of the two using only one word) qualifies as a rant? Nice.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem isn't Ayn Rand's viewpoint, it is that reality is skewed by Corporations creating laws to benefit themselves.

Rand would welcome a world where government gets out of the way and lets corporations make *all* the laws. But don't worry, that reality is almost achieved!

I would suggest that Any Rand would say that the three (two now) companies should sue themselves into mutually assured destruction

In Rand's world, the companies would merge before destroying themselves (through lawsuits, competition or otherwise). Strangely enough, you see that sort of behavior nowadays as well.

You should quit griping and take comfort in the fact that society is accelerating toward an Objectivist utopia!

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, those evil, evil corporations. Without them we would surely have free elecricity, internet, transportation... Pretty much everything we could ever dream or hope for. Down with the corporation! Long live the dictatorship of the proletariat!

Re:This was always going to happen

[MrKrillls]

Simpler version: "...Monster Cable produces nothing of value..."

Re: This was always going to happen

[Darinbob]

But her followers did seem to be from a breakthrough in cloning technology.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Government creates business and the economy. Without government you get neither. Business needs roads and police and courts and an educated workforce, and hopefully educated consumers who see value in your product or service.

Ayn Rand made a lot of her money off FDRs work programs that paid her for her plays to be produced all over the country, but she was foolish with her FDR, book, and hollywood money and lived off of Social Security and Medicare in her old age (under her married name).

Her followers hide from reality.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

This just proves that some people don't just want an iPhone... they want everybody around them to know that they have an iPhone.

No, it proves that apple wont allow anyone to use their brand or trademarks without adhering to their rules: one of which is "Thou shalt not cover our logo"

So if a phone case manufacturer wants to make a case that claims to be for the iphone6, then they have to play by apples rules. You'll probably notice its very difficult to sell phone cases if you're not allowed to say which phone they are for...

Re:This was always going to happen

[Aighearach]

realistic understanding of the Cult of Ayn Rand

If there ever was an oxymoron....

She pans them heavily in her book Philosophy: Who Needs It?

Re:This was always going to happen

[Plumpaquatsch]

This just proves that some people don't just want an iPhone... they want everybody around them to know that they have an iPhone.

No, it proves that apple wont allow anyone to use their brand or trademarks without adhering to their rules: one of which is "Thou shalt not cover our logo"

So if a phone case manufacturer wants to make a case that claims to be for the iphone6, then they have to play by apples rules. You'll probably notice its very difficult to sell phone cases if you're not allowed to say which phone they are for...

Bullshit

Re:This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

I would buy the whole living fuck out of a bespoke Apple Suit; and a all-electric Apple car; and of course a literal Apple TV... I'd fucking move to live in an Apple sub-division, sure as cum when it's an apple brand whore.

No need for a condom because they don't get viruses.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Archangel Michael]

However the entire abanding of the social safety net is something that only very stupid civilizations do.

All or nothing right? Black or White? No Shades of grey ever.

Government mandating, and then extracting, and then deciding who is worthy of a "social net" has bankrupted more lives than it has saved. There is no way a BIG FAT government can decide if a person is deserving, so they do mass selections that include people that are not, while at the same time exclude others that are.

So the path of Social Services is a slowly spiraling death trap of destruction of willpower into dependance.

Broadcast is a great example of something that has lived past its industrial age lifetime. I rarely get my news from MSM/MassMedia. The internet has broken broadcast, Disney, TWC/Comcast etc are ALL in serious trouble if they continue to fight for maintaining the status quo.

Monster Cable DOES offer perceived value, and to be honest, it does offer a standard quality product (over priced). Having ordered cheap knockoff crap cables, that do not work, is not a value proposition. There is something to be said for "trust".

Very few cables are worth the money they are set at

This is probably true. I used to sell computers back in the day (early 90s) and I made more money (commission) on a $14.99 Cable than I did on the $500 printer it was attached to. Profit on those cables, $14.49, the printer, $4-5. People shop for value on expensive items, but pay no attention to the $14.50 markup on a $14.99 cable. You make money where you can.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Archangel Michael]

Monster does produce value. It produces profit, and that is of some value. And while it does make a profit, it will continue to make cables. If you can make a better profit, making better cables, and selling them for less, you should.

Re:This was always going to happen

[Archangel Michael]

It was two sentences longer than it should have been. So, yeah, it was a Rant. :-P

Re:This was always going to happen

[SpankiMonki]

Oh..."Rant" with a capital "R". Got it! ;-)

Re: This was always going to happen

[TwoEyedJack]

*Everybody* is self-interested. Philosophies that fail to understand this are all garbage. Natural law shows this to be the case, as the instinct for self-preservation is present in pretty much every animal on earth. Even Christ said as much when he commanded that we love our neighbor as we love ourselves.

Re:This was always going to happen

[vilanye]

Those cables have no value.

They are a scam.

Pick any other cable at random and the odds are that they are equal quality to monster.

Re: This was always going to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

She enjoyed collecting social security checks.

Re:This was always going to happen

[cavebison]

reality is skewed by Corporations creating laws to benefit themselves. Thus proving that Government should not be involved in economics, since the moment it is, it is corrupted by its own involvement.

Wow that's a leap. Just because there is corruption is politics, your conclusion is government should not be involved in economics. That's clearly an argument made up to support a bias you clearly already have. No, the solution is pretty simple - take corporate money out of politics. It is bleeding obvious that since parties now need $millions to operate, they become beholden to the companies whose "donations" allow them to survive. The whole thing is dysfunctional and only getting more so.

Government must be involved in economics, as they can make decisions for the good of the *entire country*, regardless of who has the most money. That is how it should be. However that function has been corrupted beyond recognition, due to parties now being dependent on corporate money, like a drug addict needing bigger and bigger hits until something gives.

This is going to be hilarious.

[Anonymous Coward]

Flim-flam cable maker suing overpriced hipster baiting electronics firm over tacky rich kid headphones.

Fetch me my popcorn

Re:This is going to be hilarious.

[techstar25]

You know what they say: All is fair in love and war and overpriced A/V accessories.

Re:This is going to be hilarious.

[mwvdlee]

To me, they're all just a bunch of $500 wooden volume knobs.

Re:This is going to be hilarious.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, lets see. (Cr)apple makes insanely vastly overpriced, extremely low quality products, and is now being sued by a company that makes insanely vastly overpriced, extremely low quality cables and A/V accessories...if one of them loses and goes out of business, its a win for consumers. The only outcome better than that would be if BOTH could lose and go out of business!!! Both of these companies are committing fraud, somehow getting people to think that high price =quality product, and that owning (insert name of company that makes insanely vastly overpriced, extremely low quality products here) products makes them cool somehow.

People that buy products from companies like this need to wise up and realize that buying products from companies like these only makesthem and idiot (or an IDiot) for paying insanely high prices for the crappiest low quality products available!

Re:This is going to be hilarious.

[Anonymous Coward]

I listened to a few Beats headphones, the ones with the built-in amp were dreadful; what the audiophiles call "grain" was so obvious I thought I had a belt-sander on my head. But the HD Studio ones are pretty good for music that benefits from tremendous bass. It's boomy muddy bass, but there's a lot of it.

I prefer Beyerdynamic DT-990s 600ohms for critical listening, driven by my tube oscilloscope's vertical amplifiers.... (Don't ask)

Re:This is going to be hilarious.

[zieroh]

Both of these companies are committing fraud, somehow getting people to think that high price =quality product

Please explain how you came to the conclusion that this constitutes fraud.

Re:This is going to be hilarious.

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer Beyerdynamic DT-990s 600ohms for critical listening, driven by my tube oscilloscope's vertical amplifiers.... (Don't ask)

You can't say only one interesting thing in a long string of text and suffix it with don't ask and expect no one to ask..

in case i was unclear..
i'm asking, elaborate

Re: This is going to be hilarious.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey now - they both make high quality products, and they both have brand equity to leverage. The question is - does that additional cost matter? For Monster Cable, no - there's no discernable difference in signal quality from a $2 monoprice cable and a $100 Monster Cable - that doesn't mean that Monster cables don't have a nicer level of finish / feel in your hands - just that it's not worth the price premium.

Apple on the other hand, makes products that use hold in your hands every day, and are well made. In this case the price premium might be justified. The level of finishing on a macbook pro is amazing - is it worth the price premium over a plastic dell that has better hardware specs? Depends on what you value, and what you're doing with it.

Re:This is going to be hilarious.

[Gingernads]

Well, lets see. (Cr)apple makes insanely vastly overpriced, extremely low quality products, and is now being sued by a company that makes insanely vastly overpriced, extremely low quality cables and A/V accessories...if one of them loses and goes out of business, its a win for consumers. The only outcome better than that would be if BOTH could lose and go out of business!!! Both of these companies are committing fraud, somehow getting people to think that high price =quality product, and that owning (insert name of company that makes insanely vastly overpriced, extremely low quality products here) products makes them cool somehow.

People that buy products from companies like this need to wise up and realize that buying products from companies like these only makesthem and idiot (or an IDiot) for paying insanely high prices for the crappiest low quality products available!

Posted from my iPhone.

Re: This is going to be hilarious.

[Anonymous Coward]

Something about 1000% minimum profit on every item sold screams "fraud" to me.

Re: This is going to be hilarious.

[Anonymous Coward]

unless you're the one selling the item, right?

Bad guys...

[JaredOfEuropa]

Apple, Monster, Beats, an ex hedge fund manager turned headphone designer... This reads like a Marvel comic with only supervillains in it.

Re:Bad guys...

[Trailer Trash]

This reads like a Marvel comic with only supervillains in it.

My favorite kind!

Re:Bad guys...

[Nkwe]

Apple, Monster, Beats, an ex hedge fund manager turned headphone designer... This reads like a Marvel comic with only supervillains in it.

Or the start of a joke: Apple, Monster, Beats, and an ex hedge fund manager turned headphone designer walk into a bar...

Re:Bad guys...

[Anonymous Coward]

One asks the another, where is your attorney? They answer: he was disbarred this morning.

Re:Bad guys...

[KGIII]

Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

I am not proud. Low hanging fruit and all. (Added for whitespace.)

Re:Bad guys...

[Anonymous Coward]

..., Beats, an ex hedge fund manager turned headphone designer...

Dr Dre was a hedge fund manager?

Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

I have always admired Monster's business model. Take something as dirt cheap as a cable, tack on a price at least 3000% above cost and not only make it a success but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.

Re:Monster Business School

[Daemonik]

Back in the day of analog cables, there was some margin of truth in Monster's claims of cable quality and gold plating. Now that everything is digital though? A rusty coat hanger can carry a digital signal as well as their best cable, so yeah fark 'em.

Re: Monster Business School

[rfengr]

To extent; a rusty coat hanger can't carry a 10 GBPs serial link like a coaxial cable. It's digital, but signal integrity is still an issue.

Re:Monster Business School

[JaredOfEuropa]

Careful: if the connectors on your equipment aren't gold-plated, then it's those hard-to-replace connectors that will rust instead of the easily replaced cable. Gold does not improve signal quality; it merely prevents rust which degrades conductivity.

Re:Monster Business School

[Phreakiture]

customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.

The guitarist in a band I've engineered for is stone deaf but thinks of himself as an audiophile. He can't hear the hum coming out of his guitar amp, but swears by these overpriced interconnect cables as well as the special acoustic pad that he puts said humming amp on. One night I pointed out one of the XLR cables to him and said, "You see that $10 cable there? Whatever you're listening to went through one of those." He didn't say another word to me all night.

Re:Monster Business School

[mwvdlee]

Even for analog cables, there were plenty far cheaper cable brands that offer the same or better measurable quality.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

This works as well...

I have always admired Apple's business model. Take something as dirt cheap as a Chinese manufactured electronics, tack on a price at least 3000% above cost and not only make it a success but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.

Re:Monster Business School

[KozmoStevnNaut]

There are still plenty of analog connections around. Headphone jacks, RCA outputs and so on. None of them sound any better through Monster cables than through cheap dollar store cables, and they never did.

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2...

Note that by far the largest difference was stereo crosstalk, and that has a lot more to do with cable geometry than with price or "quality". You can make any cable measure exceedingly low crosstalk by physically separating the wires, but no one can head crosstalk at -84dB anyway, so it's pointless.

Re: Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

What you get is packet loss, which either results in buffering or artifacts. An example is 'snow' on faulty HDMI cables. So there's still a case for a good quality cable that's not going to be dropping data because it's sitting on the edge of what quality is acceptable.

Where some manufactures enter the realm of fantasy is when they start to say things like the colours will look better. They won't. If the all the data is getting through a $10 and $3000 cable will look alike.

Re:Monster Business School

[drinkypoo]

Careful: if the connectors on your equipment aren't gold-plated, then it's those hard-to-replace connectors that will rust instead of the easily replaced cable.

What you really want is a connector plated the same as the connector you're connecting it to. If it's tin-plated, use a tin-plated connector. If it's gold-plated, use gold. What I don't know of is any tin-plated cables which include a sacrificial zinc anode. In motoring (and presumably other places with metal bolted to metal) we use zinc anti-seize where dissimilar metals meet because it gets eaten up first, which is handy. I'm not sure if that applies to tin, though. Also in motoring, tin is what's used as an intermediate between steel or copper and aluminum.

Re:Monster Business School

[thegarbz]

but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.

What you describe underpins entire business models that go way outside of audiophile technobabble and into homeopathy, acupunture, and basically a whole field of snake oil products that improve your well being, protect your car from rust, and make everything in your house just that much better. Personally I'm still congratulating the person who managed to sell "organic" water in our supermarket.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why radio hams, a self-selected group of the technically knowledgable that routinely deal with analog signals orders of magnitudes higher frequency than audio signals, are so fanatical about solid gold plated oxygen free copper directional cables. Not.

Re:Monster Business School

[fluffernutter]

Hats off to you sir, you beat me to this.

Re:Monster Business School

[kimvette]

Aside from noise rejection and the lack of impedance matching coat hangers work perfectly well even for analog gear as input patch cables (but due to sensitivity to impedance differences you wouldn't want to use in place of phono patch cables). They work supremely well as speaker cables, providing the gauge is heavy enough for the current (so driving the speakers at a Pink Floyd gig may not work out too well but for the average bar, wedding, etc. they would be perfectly fine).

Benefits of fine strand OFC cables:

  * they look nice
  * The interconnects are usually constructed better
  * They are more flexible than cheap cable, allowing for easier cable routing
  * They handle repeated stress better (so they're better for speakers mounted in doors)

I use fine strand OFC cables for auto sound systems because they fit into tight spaces without worrying about hitting bend radius limits.

Re:Monster Business School

[fluffernutter]

I don't care how rich a company is, I cannot admire an organization built on screwing over people who are just naive.

Re:Monster Business School

[Carewolf]

At that moment, you surely felt better than him, right?

Really, I mean, what's wrong with leaving people to their own harmless opinions, no matter how wrong?

It is not harmless. He is hurting his own economy for one thing. Secondly, if he is performing and is wasting money on useles crap instead of fixing the broken equipment that is causing bad audio, the audience suffers too.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Monster takes a commodity item, paints it gold, and makes outlandish claims as to its capabilities. Apple actually creates unique products. You don't have to be a fanboy to see the difference.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Even for analog cables, there were plenty far cheaper cable brands that offer the same or better measurable quality.

Exactly. At the time Monster came out with their first products, audio gear was often sold with such extremely thin cheap wire that it actually could degrade signal transmission. However, plain old lamp wire from the hardware store was more than good enough as a replacement--every bit as good for audio signals as the Monster stuff that was more than 10x the price.

In later years... I wanted to move a high-speed document scanner further away from my computer, so I wanted a 10-foot USB 2 cable, and that launched me down a path of pain. In short, the super-expensive "Better than USB standard requires" Monster cables, which were the only option at the closest A/V electronics type store, did not work. Tons of data errors. $50 for a cable that fucking scrambled digital transmissions beyond recognition!

So, although retaliation as everybody assumes is likely, I do wonder if there's another reason. Like maybe the Monster cables don't actually meet the certification requirements despite being overpriced???

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

I have always admired STARBUCKS's business model. Take something as dirt cheap as a COFFEE, tack on a price at least 3000% above cost and not only make it a success but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.

FTFY

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know - Abby Wambach can head crosstalk even at -90dB.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the day of analog cables, there was some margin of truth in Monster's claims of cable quality and gold plating. Now that everything is digital though? A rusty coat hanger can carry a digital signal as well as their best cable, so yeah fark 'em.

I loved Monster back then for guitar cables (and still have those old cables to this day) as there was a noticeable difference in sound quality over the cheaper ones and back then weren't much pricier either. However they really went full retard after branching out into other markets over the decades.

Re:Monster Business School

[drinkypoo]

* They handle repeated stress better (so they're better for speakers mounted in doors)

Ugh, yes. I need to go into my Mercedes' doors to fix the wiring to the windows on the driver's side because they didn't use particularly fancy wiring. I'll be using some silicone-jacketed stuff intended for R/C packs, because I have it already and it should last longer than the rest of the car.

Re: Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Shiny shell doth not real innovation make.

Re:Monster Business School

[jellomizer]

They are other ways to prevent corrosion too. However the fact that you are plugging in these expensive cables that will not rust, into connectors integrated into more expensive equipment that will rust.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

That's nearly all of them.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I make sure to use dust-plated connectors.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

When sending digital signals its important not to have impedance changes so your coathanger would need to match the impedance requirements of the sending chip and receiving chip and the connectors should also match, but other that that your correct-ish.

Re:Monster Business School

[CastrTroy]

Yeah the big problem in bicycles is steel frames with aluminum seat posts or stems (where the handlebars attach to the frame). Those things are often assembled without any kind of anti seize or grease and are known to basically get "welded" together from corrosion. I've seen a few that were impossible to remove.

Re:Monster Business School

[Stuarticus]

I tend to buy fairly expensive guitar cables, the Planet Waves ones. Rather than being an audio quality issue (though they do sound better than the cheapest cables which can hum a bit in a noisy environment, those gain pedals boost noise!) I buy them for durability, the cheaper ones can fail after a few months while I've only had one planet waves one die in nearly 10 years of use and they replaced it for free, with no hassles. Reliability is worth the money.

Re:Monster Business School

[QuietLagoon]

I have always admired Monster's business model. Take something as dirt cheap as a cable, tack on a price at least 3000% above cost and not only make it a success but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.

Monster cable is bargain basement compared to the bill of goods that many "audiophiles" are buying nowadays... To the audiophile, this $10,000 Ethernet cable apparently makes sense. At least Ars had the sense to add this sub-headline: "In reality, one-way silver cable does nothing but make "audiophools" poorer.".

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

I have always admired STARBUCKS's business model. Take something as dirt cheap as moldy dirt, call it COFFEE, tack on a price at least 3000% above cost and not only make it a success but have customers who advocate the superiority of your product on faith alone. Because they spent so goddamn much.

FTFY

FTFTFY

Re: Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

I was with you until you brought acupuncture into it. Acupuncture works for some things and for others there's no evidence of efficacy, but you're wrong to lump it in with homeopathy and monster cabling.

Re:Monster Business School

[drinkypoo]

I've seen a few that were impossible to remove.

I'd try lye, it'll eat the hell out of the Aluminum. Or if you're trying to get back the Aluminum, washing powder and a battery charger will run the rust reaction in reverse. I imagine it's horrible to do that with Cromoly though. If you do it with stainless the results are horrendously, illegally toxic.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the day of analog cables, there was some margin of truth in Monster's claims of cable quality and gold plating..

Not enough truth and not enough difference that anybody would notice except very rich people running very high end, very high fidelity, very expensive systems who also had perfect hearing and were musically trained to notice the difference. Just using good quality cable and connectors that were soldered instead of crimped was usually adequate, and if you were using high quality connectors that were crimped properly and not the crap done with a pair of pliers at the auto shack audio install bay crimped connectors would be adequate as well. You would never notice it on 99.99 percent of home stereo systems and absolutely no portable ones.

I work at a medical device company and we run micro volt signals with very high signal discrimination requirements across copper cable with tinned connectors on either end and run it through a 1000:1 amplification stage (tia) to process the signal and it works perfectly well. But the connectors, while tinned and not gold plated, are very high quality and have very tight manufacturer crimp specs.

Re:Monster Business School

[rickb928]

I've seen that also. In the real world, if your bicycle's aluminum seat post got fused to your steel bicycle's downtube, you have had your bicycle for too long.

Re: Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Form has as much if not more value than function. It always has.

Re:Monster Business School

[UnknowingFool]

Sound better is subjective. For analog cables, better quality cables help with noise and distortion. Note that I said "better quality" and not exclusively Monster cables. You can pay a little bit more for higher quality cables that have better shielding and better contacts and not pay the obscene Monster prices. In the long run the better cables will last longer.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

I would agree if they were preying on a lower-income group of people who were choosing their product over eating, but the people who buy this crap are those with disposable income who simply don't know better. Hard to feel any sympathy when they lose more pride than anything else.

Re:Monster Business School

[elrous0]

Yeah, but in October they have PUMPKIN FLAVORED moldy dirt!

Re:Monster Business School

[AmiMoJo]

How do you make a patch cable out of a coat hanger? Surely you need two conductors, one for signal and one for ground.

Same with speaker cables, you would need at least two coat hangers, but at least you normally have terminal posts. Somehow your patch cable coat hangers would need to get the inner and outer connectors of a typical RCA jack or both contacts in a 6.5mm jack.

Re:Monster Business School

[TheGratefulNet]

'gold' is often such a micro thin layer that it simply flakes off and makes things WORSE than they were before.

simple nickel plating is all you need. it does not flake off, it does not rust and does not tarnish very much. its cheap and it can be well made IF you use non-china designed parts. I did not say to avoid parts made in china (all parts in this type are from china) but if its switchcraft or neutrik or some truely responsible company they will ensure the metal coating is done properly. if its a china company making their own stuff under their own name, all bets are off. I have yet to see one china-designed connector last even 1/10 as long as a proper name-brand part that was sold thru proper channels (mouser, digikey, etc).

when I see gold, I usually go the other way since 99% of the time, its for looks only. I build audio gear (diy style) and the china parts I've used have always backfired on me. even very solid looking jacks have gold flaking off in weeks of use.

so, folks, don't be fooled by gold (lol). its usually a sign that they value looks and your one sale more than anything else.

Re:Monster Business School

[TheGratefulNet]

I'm not a fan of MC, but I will say this: while the MC's are overpriced at least the shielding is reasonable. hum can be a problem with poor shielding and the MC's that I used to use, years ago (car audio ones with foil wrap) were quite good for keeping hum low. dollar store cables have the thinnest shielding and usually poor molding so they break easy.

once you get to minimum quality standards, there's little diff other than being able to see numbers change in high priced test gear. but dollar store is really not what you want to compare anything to. even monster is better than that ;)

their prices are outrageous but the quality is acceptable. not worth the money but that's not the same as saying that they are made like dollar store cables. they definitely are not.

Re:Monster Business School

[mlts]

There is a point with audio that there is a split between "pro audio" (as in flat response monitor speakers), versus "audiophile audio" (speakers that have Bog knows what for response levels, but they look cool on their marble stands.)

While some cable making companies tout things that can't be quantified, there are items that can be, such as a proper gauge of wire, well soldered fittings that are properly shrink wrapped to prevent oxidation, good insulation, and other basics.

Re:Monster Business School

[gstoddart]

What's "too long"? Still working isn't too long.

Since when is owning something for an extended period of time "too long"?

Re:Monster Business School

[adisakp]

What you really want is a connector plated the same as the connector you're connecting it to. If it's tin-plated, use a tin-plated connector. If it's gold-plated, use gold. What I don't know of is any tin-plated cables which include a sacrificial zinc anode. In motoring (and presumably other places with metal bolted to metal) we use zinc anti-seize where dissimilar metals meet because it gets eaten up first, which is handy. I'm not sure if that applies to tin, though. Also in motoring, tin is what's used as an intermediate between steel or copper and aluminum.

Tin is used for solder but in alloys which reduce whiskering, but you certainly don't want pure tin or zinc used for your connectors with tons of very close signal lines because both of them have issues with whiskering which can lead to shorts... especially at points where mechanical stress can occur (flexing of the connection).

Re:Monster Business School

[adisakp]

Ugh... sorry bad formatting, the quote parent didn't come through?

What you really want is a connector plated the same as the connector you're connecting it to. If it's tin-plated, use a tin-plated connector. If it's gold-plated, use gold. What I don't know of is any tin-plated cables which include a sacrificial zinc anode. In motoring (and presumably other places with metal bolted to metal) we use zinc anti-seize where dissimilar metals meet because it gets eaten up first, which is handy. I'm not sure if that applies to tin, though. Also in motoring, tin is what's used as an intermediate between steel or copper and aluminum.

Tin is used for solder but in alloys which reduce whiskering, but you certainly don't want pure tin or zinc used for your connectors with tons of very close signal lines because both of them have issues with whiskering which can lead to shorts... especially at points where mechanical stress can occur (flexing of the connection).

Re:Monster Business School

[gordguide]

Monster does not make a bad cable. I'm sure they make a nice profit after they account for their marketing costs. The genius of their pricing is the huge margin they offer resellers. Let's use the "$10 cable" example. Standard assumptions with electronics is manufacturing cost ... the Bill of Materials and assembly ... is 20% of retail MSRP. There is packaging, shipping and marketing on top of that. Retail margins on accessories are close to 50% (100% markup). So ... the $10 cable should wholesale for maybe $25 and MSRP would be $50. Monster would put a MSRP on that item of $75, leaving the dealer with $50 ... or 200% markup (67% margin). You don't need to be a Rocket Scientist to see how much a reseller is going to push the sales force to sell that brand over others, and there is plenty of money to go around for cash or other incentives to be paid directly to the sales staff. As for Apple vs Monster, well, Monster is famous for sending an office tower's worth of lawyers at anyone and everyone they can scare into settling, most notably any Mom + Pop who dare use the word "monster" for anything at all. So it's no surprise they are in court, yet again.

Re:Monster Business School

[Stuarticus]

You don't need to tell me, I'm sitting in front of a pair of Harbeths.

Re: Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

This is technically true, acupuncture does accomplish something.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/19/us-acupuncture-infection-idUSTRE62I00220100319

Re:Monster Business School

[lgw]

You can definitely go cheap enough on cables that it's a real problem. My favorite is pulling out a coax cable and having the center pin break off and get stuck in the equipment. Paying $5 for an analog cable is wise, IMO. And if you want a 50 foot HDMI cable, the cheaper ones aren't to spec (you have to use a heavier gauge wire for long runs).

Sure, there's no need to pay Monster's crazy inflated prices, but that doesn't mean there's no downside to the cheapest possible option.

Re:Monster Business School

[bluefoxlucid]

Gold electroplating doesn't flake off. It's supposed to be micrometers thick.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anubis IV]

If you're packing up for gigs on a regularly basis or otherwise putting a lot of stress on cables, that can definitely be worth it. But for most people, that's not the case.

I once had a big box retail store employee try to sell me on an expensive HDMI cable for the TV I was buying by arguing that it was more durable than the cheaper stuff I'd pick up online. He may have been right, but it was a non-factor for me, since my TV was going to be stationary. Even if the cheaper cable had a 50% chance to break every time I touched it, I'd still come out ahead since I'd only touch it once or twice every 10 years, yet it cost a 1/10 of the price of the cable he was trying to sell me on. Even if I bought a new cable every time I touched the HDMI input, I'd still come out ahead.

Again, for some folks, particularly musicians, investing in more durable cables makes a lot of sense, simply for their better durability. The last thing you want is for your primary and your backup cable to fail when you're setting up for a gig. But for most folks, durability should be a lower concern, or not a concern at all, since even the cheapest of cables will be durable enough to meet their needs.

Re:Monster Business School

[CastrTroy]

Yeah, it's most likely just do to improper assembly/maintentance rather than owning the bike too long. The bike that I had a problem with had only had the stem inserted for about 2 years before I unsuccessfully tried to remove it. Both were used, but in very reasonable condition when I assembled the bike. It's possible to find new parts even for relatively old frames, and an old steel frame can last quite a while if it's taken care of.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

" If it's tin-plated, use a tin-plated connector."

Typically they're nickel plated.

Re:Monster Business School

[fahrbot-bot]

There are still plenty of analog connections around. Headphone jacks, ...

My headphones are digital; I do the D to A conversion in my mind.

Re:Monster Business School

[drinkypoo]

Tin, nickel, gold, copper, steel... what haven't I seen used for connectors? Aluminum, that's about it. I think we all know why, but the sparks that shot out of the outlets in the mobile home in which I spent many of my formative years due to oxidation of the aluminum wiring are a big clue if anyone doesn't

Re:Monster Business School

[Phreakiture]

It wasn't really his guitar cables that were under discussion at the moment . . . he was going on about the expensive audiophile cables he'd put into his home system.

As for his guitar cable, as long as the 1/4" stays seated and the current flows, it's all good. The hum itself was in his amp, which was a bit vintage. Now, vintage guitar amps are fine as long as they are maintained, but this one needed some help. I know another guitarist that uses the same amp and it sounds great.

Re:Monster Business School

[friesofdoom]

The best thing I ever saw was a fiber optic cable advertised with superior connection quality because it had gold plated connectors XD

Fiber optic cable connection improved by the gold plated connectors XD XD

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

audio gear was often sold with such extremely thin cheap wire that it actually could degrade signal transmission. However, plain old lamp wire from the hardware store was more than good enough as a replacement

So you're saying the cable makers were too stupid to use something as good as lamp wire. I think you are delusional.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

They still make the best guitar cables, and they're not significantly more than other brands in that vertical. Honestly, I didn't even know they made stuff for Apple.

Re:Monster Business School

[Phreakiture]

Exactly. He was missing what was important.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally not like apple and its heavy overuse of the word "magical" right?

http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/03/apple-can-we-stop-with-the-magical-already/

It helps to be a blind fanboy to not see they are the same thing.

Re: Monster Business School

[iluvcapra]

I would also question wether or not a rusty coat hanger has the appropriate 110-ohm termination in the AES spec... (or 75 in the case of SPDIF).

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

This. And not just hams, but electrical engineers and scientists. I've seen frequency response curves in ads for audiophile grade cables that looked horribly unflat and with roll-offs orders of magnitudes worse than the cheap stuff we used in labs for analog signals into the couple GHz range. At some point, usually the connector geometry makes a much bigger difference than the possible construction of the cable, and yet in at least once case, performing worse than the connector was trying to be marketed as a example of being better than average...

Re:Monster Business School

[phantomfive]

Gold plated connectors are nice, not because of conductivity, but because they don't rust. This is mainly relevant if you live in a humid environment like Hawaii or Taiwan. It's scary how fast metal components can rust (hinges on laptops, usb ports, etc).

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I resemble that remark!!

That humming is part of my unique sound, you insensitive clod!!

Re:Monster Business School

[Andrewkov]

I've been using the planet waves cables for years, too. Nothing worse than cracking and popping blasting through the house PA because you're using a crappy cable!

Re:Monster Business School

[Mal-2]

Nickel plating peels under mechanical stress. Gold and silver do not. They wear through because they are soft, but they don't flake or peel. Electrical contacts are spring-loaded to retain a good interface, and nickel is about the last thing you would want to use there.

Re:Monster Business School

[ihtoit]

IIRC high tension transmission lines use aluminium connectors.

Re:Monster Business School

[ihtoit]

electroplating doesn't flake, it's electrically bonded and a few tens of atoms thick.

Re:Monster Business School

[ihtoit]

This. I started out with RG58 coax for my antenna but found that it couldn't handle 200W. It got hot enough to melt through the insulation. I had to switch up to RG213 (which is about twice as thick and three times heavier). Everything was much happier after that.

Re:Monster Business School

[ihtoit]

common ground the gear, you only need one signal conductor per channel.

(I've run stereo signal through bell wire and common ground, it worked pretty well for a redneck setup but it's not something I'd go set up in someone else's living room).

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not harmless. He is hurting his own economy for one thing. Secondly, if he is performing and is wasting money on useles crap instead of fixing the broken equipment that is causing bad audio, the audience suffers too.

Are you Glenn Fricker by any chances? If not then you should listen to his "How to hold a microphone" on Youtube where he also finishes by "the audience suffers too."

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

Noise and distortion are not subjective, except in that they are vague terms that mean different things to different people.

The only types of distortion a speaker cable, for instance, can introduce can be mitigated by using a sufficient gauge wire and meandering rather than coiling it. You can buy a roll of the stuff for about $10.

And how does fancy stuff last longer exactly? I've been using the same wires since the 70s. Some of it might crack eventually under sunlight, I suppose. I'd still rather replace said wires every 5 years than spend 30x the price on Monster's shit.

Re:Monster Business School

[ewibble]

No, I think he is saying cable makers used wire cheaper than lamp wire and sold it for a higher price than lamp wire.

Re:Monster Business School

[UnknowingFool]

And how does fancy stuff last longer exactly?

Again I said better quality cables. In your own example, thicker gauge speaker cables will work better than thinner, cheaper speaker cables. But you will pay a little extra for it.

I've been using the same wires since the 70s. Some of it might crack eventually under sunlight, I suppose.

So you like having exposed wiring? Some people prefer not to have that.

I'd still rather replace said wires every 5 years than spend 30x the price on Monster's shit.

Again, I explicitly said better quality and specifically not Monster.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

MTBF (meant time between failures) is quantifiable, a real measurable quality parameter, and worth paying for under many circumstances. Concert audio gear (guitar cables as one very small instance) are a good example. They need to be packed quickly, unpacked quickly, and need to plug in and be ready to work flawlessly. That is worth paying for.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

A patch cable as only one line www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/7291976986464054.JPG?0.6019339706458597 th

Re: Monster Business School

[ghinckley68]

You find they all have very low impendaces. and the coat hanger probably the lowest.
The terminator sets the impendance on the system not the cable.

Re:Monster Business School

[drinkypoo]

Since when is owning something for an extended period of time "too long"?

Stuff changes pretty fast even in the bicycle world, but the changes are usually pretty minimal. Still, that doesn't stop some elitists from getting all excited about having the 2015 version of the XTR whosafudge instead of the 2013 version, or whatever.

Me, I just scored a Specialized Rock Hopper at a yard sale for $25. It's got Saturnae Aluminum wheels, Shimano and Suntour components (OK ones, nothing to write home about) and I slapped some Kendas on it with slime tubes... and I'm waiting for some new Shimano brake pads, they were actually competitively priced... on eBay. I have a fancier bike (a ~2007 Haro X7 with Fox shocks) but I wanted something I could thrash.

The seat post is Aluminum, it does have a bunch of rust transfer onto it, but it moves fine. Bike must have been garaged. Still has a bunch of rust pits on it. Who cares? Chain is pretty sloppy side to side, too, but if I'm going to do serious riding I'll be on my other bike anyway. It looks like Ca.1984 or so, it doesn't even have rock shox.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of fucky connector is tin plated? Decent connectors are nickel plated.

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

As a guitarist myself, I make my own cables. I've bought enough cables from music stores, even brand names like Planet Waves, and had to rework them when I get them home, that it's much cheaper and efficient to just by good cheap $0.50 nickel plated jacks and good high quality cable and assemble them myself. Also when the connectors get fucked up, and they always do, it's cheaper to replace them with a new $0.50 connector than buy a new $15 cable (or $100 if it's a long cable).

The number of times I've opened up store-bought cables to find that they've been stripped wrong, the shield is shorting to the signal, the ferrule hasn't been installed, the lugs haven't been heat shrinked or other basic assembly failures...

Re:Monster Business School

[Jack Griffin]

You have Digital speakers?

Re:Monster Business School

[kimvette]

The A/B/X tests which proved botique cables are no better than coat hangers used multiple coat hangers, obviously. I'm not saying I would do this because they would be a nightmare to set up... .but based on your post I can only assume you fall within the autistic spectrum, or are simply being a pedantic nitwit, as it can be inferred that there would be a 1:1 replacement of coat hanger for each respective conductor. Duh.

Re:Monster Business School

[drinkypoo]

If I lived in such an environment I would carefully place a small amount of dielectric grease on all the pins, and I'd spray all the PCBs with water-resistant coatings which are now ubiquitous and which can last quite a while on static surfaces. But it's dry where I live, so I haven't done either.

All automotive slip-connections should have dielectric grease on 'em, though. And most don't. So frustrating.

Re:Monster Business School

[drinkypoo]

In short, the super-expensive "Better than USB standard requires" Monster cables, which were the only option at the closest A/V electronics type store, did not work.

That is short. What you left out is how you finally solved the problem. Did a cheaper cable work, or did you have to use a repeater cable? I've used small hubs as inline repeaters to make long USB cable runs before, obviously that works great and now USB2 hubs are very cheap so there's only reasons of reliability to avoid such solutions.

Re:Monster Business School

[TheGratefulNet]

you happen to be wrong. the better rca connectors, for example, come nickel plated NOT silver or gold. I'm talking digikey and mouser, here.

the nickel plated ones have lasted many rca plug insertions and removals. I've never in my life seen a 'gold' contact last even 10 insertions without scratching and looking like a POS.

not sure why you think nickel plating is bad. the good vendors make and sell it and I doubt the tier1 manuf's would bother with the nickel plating if you were correct.

bottom line: gold is usually for looks. almost never does anyone need gold for contacts. even if silver tarnishes, the tarnish is conductive so you don't care.

Re:Monster Business School

[Mal-2]

RCA connectors flex very little, and where they flex is not the same as where they make contact. The tiny contacts in, say, an HDMI or SATA cable flex a great deal. Flakes of metal would be a very bad thing there. Even USB has enough spring loading for this to become an issue, but that spring loading is on the device side, not the cable side, so nickel-plated USB male plugs would probably be fine. You're going to have to pick something else for the female end though, because of that spring-loading. Similarly, a headphone plug doesn't flex significantly because it is the jack that is spring-loaded, and nickel does just fine here.

Nickel plating is very sturdy when there are no tension changes in the underlying metal, but it utterly falls apart when there are. There are many nickel-plated musical instruments upwards of 100 years old that look wonderful (much better than silver, generally better than lacquer, and up there with untouched gold even though they are hardly untouched), so long as they have avoided taking mechanical damage. Once dented and repaired, the finish starts to fail in long, peeling strips and in smallish (1 mm scale) chips.

Nickel also has the drawback (as a musical instrument finish) of feeling "slick" or "wet", and of causing skin irritation in considerably more people than do silver or gold. Of course neither of these is a significant problem in a cable, but it does explain why nickel never really became a dominant brass instrument plating despite its durability (outside of drum and bugle corps, where they should be wearing gloves anyhow).

Re:Monster Business School

[Anonymous Coward]

You think lamp wire is expensive enough for anyone to be that stupid? Really?

Re:Monster Business School

[KozmoStevnNaut]

My point is that even the cheapest analog cables sound exactly as good as the expensive alternatives, they meet the specs. Longevity and build quality is a completely different matter, but can still be had inexpensively.

The HDMI cable you mention is a different matter, where the cheap ones simply don't meet the actual specs. Buy the cheapest cable that meets the specs you need.

Re:Monster Business School

[KozmoStevnNaut]

I know some musicians use Monster instrument cables, simply because they have a lifetime warranty. Instrument cables get chewed up no matter how well-made or expensive they are. So it's nice to always be able to get a free replacement.

Good for them

[Anonymous Coward]

Say what you will about Apple and Beats but Monster is a terrible company.

does marketing hype matter?

[nimbius]

does 'certified for iDevice' even matter anymore? I could see it being a concern for the average consumer about a decade ago but so many products, uncertified mind you, exist for the apple to channel audio from soundcard to headbone that the logo itself seems of little merit.

Monster and Beats cultivated a brand all their own. Sure, Dr. Dre doesnt have his doctorate in accoustic waveform theory, but neither does Monster when it comes to a $600 pair of mission control headphones on the average teenager. Its all about the image, and in this case that image is perpetuated by pop culture and not dictated by apple.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

does 'certified for iDevice' even matter anymore?

When did it ever matter? I'm seriously asking. "Certified" is just a wanky way of companies like Apple and Microsoft to gain another revenue chain from peripheral makers.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[MatthewCCNA]

does 'certified for iDevice' even matter anymore? I could see it being a concern for the average consumer about a decade ago but so many products, uncertified mind you, exist for the apple to channel audio from soundcard to headbone that the logo itself seems of little merit.

I only really worry about not using knock off cables/adapters when it's connected to 110 volt power or higher, cheaply made cables that break easily are also easily replaced; cheaply made power adapters without proper insulation and air gaps can cause fires and electrocutions. That being said I use Apple EarPods because I find them comfortable.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Daemonik]

It matters, in some cases, such as their sync cables. Apple's walled garden is so high most people buy Apple's peripherals just to be sure they'll work.

I'm still shocked, to be honest, that Apple uses standard headphone jacks though.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[QuasiSteve]

These programs tend to go well beyond just a sticker, though. If you're not part of this program, you just won't be listed in the store, or carried in Apple's physical stores. If you're not 'certified' for Apple devices, your product won't be in the "Apple Accessories" aisle at other retailers. And if you're not part of the MFi project, then at least in theory Apple could simply block your accessory from working at the lightning interface level.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[jedidiah]

I've never had any problems with "fake" power supplies EVER, or anything attached to them.

On the other hand, I do actively avoid Apple products.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[houghi]

Perhaps not for the end-consumer, but it might be worth something on where they are places in a brick store. Do they get the middle shelf, the top shelf or the bottom shelf?

If they are licecenced, they could better negotiate to get the middle shelf or better placement in the store in any other way.

Now they either need to pay extra or somebody else gets that place.

Brands pay serious money to get visability. There is a reason Coca-Cola does their own stocking in many stores. Why are magazines places where they are?

So yes, it does matter for them. Due to this 'pop culture' they made a lot. Now they will not and loose a lot.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[drinkypoo]

I only really worry about not using knock off cables/adapters when it's connected to 110 volt power or higher

That's misguided AF. Back in the olden days when HDDs were stupid I had an RLL disk literally burn (with black smoke and scorches, and probably flames too) a trace off its PCB when the spindle stuck (SEIZEGATE FTW)

Low voltages are perfectly capable of starting fires.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[thegarbz]

Its all about the image, and in this case that image is perpetuated by pop culture and not dictated by apple.

Not quite. It's about quality, or rather the impression of quality. I mean these are the headphones that Skrillex uses and the headphones that Dr Dre has his name on. They must be top quality professional gear and looking good is just a bonus. I mean just look at the website. The "Beats Pro" are "The Headphones Used To Mix In Every Major Studio." so it must be absolutely awesome.

That is the mind set of a lot of people. They buy Beats because they want something better, and they don't know any better unless educated by something other than an advert in a glossy magazine. I let someone who given Beats Pro by their parents listen to a set of *cheaper* Sennheiser HD650s one day and they were just astounded and slightly upset that their parents didn't do more research.

It's not about the image of owning the devices, it's about the perception of their quality.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[fluffernutter]

You overestimate the intelligence of people in general. Of course 'iDevice' matters. So many people are incapable of thinking for themselves, they're looking for the iDevice label because... because.... surely something bad will happen if they don't. They don't know what that bad thing is, but large American corporations would never lie to them and overcharge for the sake of overcharging, right?

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

does 'certified for iDevice' even matter anymore?

The only time it matters is with usb to lightning cables.

Clone cables used to work perfectly, then apple started warning users on their iphones when you plugged in a usb cable that hadn't been blessed by Steve Jobs (and 10x more expensive).

Then with one of the ios updates apple started blocking the clone cables entirely.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

They aren't as standard as you think. The wiring for in-cord volume controls is reversed from normal, so there's a version for Apple products and a version for everyone else.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Not being someone who pays much attention to the audio equipment world is Sennheiser the company that makes the headphones that pilots use? I had a dorm-mate in college who was going to school to be a pilot and he had a pair of headphones that were phenomenal that I got to use a couple of times.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[CastrTroy]

At $25 for an official 3 foot Apple Lightning cable, there's no way I'd buy one. I got mine at MonoPrice, for around $9. They seem to work well enough. Even $9 sounds a little pricy if you ask me, but I'm not about to risk my expensive devices on something cheaper. The real problem is that the official Apple cables are so prone to breaking. The Monoprice ones are built much better and have lasted me way longer than the original Apple ones did.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[freeze128]

Before the iPhone, there really weren't any consumer devices that use the TRRS jack. Nowadays, almost every smartphone supports that. It's only *STANDARD* because Apple pretty much made the adoption of it standard.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[mlts]

It does matter, especially with Lightning connectors, since non-certified devices will give a warning on the iDevice, either disallowing charging, or just not working at all.

Even if a device does work, I've encountered off-brand USB to Lightning adapters which spark when connected/disconnected to the point of leaving scorch marks on the connector. This does definitely not bode well for any circuitry.

I look for the "Certified with iDevice", because it means some hoop jumping was done and the device meets some standards, and for a 120/240 VAC to USB charger, this isn't a bad thing, since there are some really cheap, dangerous chargers on the market where their UL listing is dubious, fake, or just not there.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[mlts]

Sennheiser (and to a lesser extent Sony) make pro-grade headphones. They may not be as glamorous as Beats, but they are not made to be. They are made to help with a job where people make money using their equipment.

I still use a set of Sony MDR-F1s. Definitely not showy, but still do a quite accurate job of sound reproduction while allowing you to still hear what's around you, and don't contact one's ears.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[AaronW]

Except that Apple tends to do even that in a non-standard way. In Apple's design, for example, they swap ground and the mic hookup compared to everyone else. Also, at least one set of Apple headphones would refuse to work unless they were given a 30v pulse to enable them according to someone I know who designed some non-Apple hardware and had to reverse engineer why the Apple headphones wouldn't work with it.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[tlhIngan]

does 'certified for iDevice' even matter anymore

It does if you want access to specs.

You can reverse-engineer a connector, a case, etc., quite easily, and many people did with the Lightning connector.

However, if you're a case manufacturer, and you want day-1 sales of your product, you sign up for the program and Apple will send you under an NDA engineering drawings so you can base your designs off them, manufacture your product, package it up and ship it to Apple to sell in stores on day 1 of product launch. Apple even has solid aluminum mockups so you can test your product's mechanicals against a representative sample.

And for complex products, like say a dock, you need entry in the program to buy the special parts that let you make your dock - authentication chips, protocols, etc.

And finally, well, if you want your product sold at Apple stores where people are not only going to be buying Apple's products, but yours will be on the shelf for the user to pick from, you need to be a part of the program.

Anyhow, didn't Apple have this problem with Bose at one time too - Bose was suing Beats as well? It resulted in Apple temporarily removing all of Bose's products of shelves, then Apple and Bose came to a settlement and they're back.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

I really hope you don't live in an apartment or with other people close by.

EEblog: Fake Apple USB Charger Teardown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Apple iPod chargers - fake versus genuine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Cheap Chinese electronics that connect to mains can be very dangerous!

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anubis IV]

Clone cables used to work perfectly

Tell that to the Chinese folks who were electrocuted as a result of using faulty clone cables and chargers with their iDevices. Apple really tightened up its MFi program after those incidents and even provided a trade-in program where knock-off products could be exchanged for the legit ones for $10, rather than the full retail price.

Having seen some dissections for the legitimate items and the clone ones, I can understand why they would do so, since the differences between the construction and parts in the two were night and day. It's no wonder people were dying with the clone ones.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not true. The 1/4" has been around since 1878 and was used by telephone operators. The 1/8" has been in use since the Sony Walkman, and every mp3 player had them, including the iPod. This is so standard and has been for so long that even Apple was not able to hoodwink its flock into a proprietary jack.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Apple's implementation came first. When they were copied by Samsung, the pins were deliberately switched.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[thegarbz]

There's a couple of companies that make true high-end and quality headphones. Sennheiser, Grado Labs, and AKG Acoustics are among the most critically acclaimed. For the most part Sennheiser has the most bleed from the professional series down to consumer equipment and you can find plenty of their cheaper stuff in headphone and earbud form. But as you rightfully have identified Sennheiser do more than consumer audio and have recording and playback equipment for industrial (planes, 2-way radios), studio (their microphones are particularly well known), and commercial (specifically teleconferencing and call centres though not as specialised as Plextor)

The Sennheiser HD650 was for the longest time their flagship product. I bought my last pair for $100 below the retail price of the Beat Pro. By comparison the Beats Pro sound more like a set of duf-duf subwoofers emphasising the sound a lot of people grow accustomed to from cheap headphones. There's no questioning it produces thundering bass and a lot of people equate that with "quality". It's quite telling that the more expensive and elaborate high-end audio gets the lower frequencies they produce and the QUIETER the bass actually sounds.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[Anonymous Coward]

Before the iPhone, there really weren't any consumer devices that use the TRRS jack.

Bullshit. Every Sony Handicam has had one of those since the early 90s. I don't know what they are used for on the iPhone, but they have been used on video cameras and digital cameras for CVBS/L/R AV outputs for nearly 3 decades.

Re:does marketing hype matter?

[jo_ham]

I've never had any problems with "fake" power supplies EVER, or anything attached to them.

On the other hand, I do actively avoid Apple products.

You've been lucky. This isn't even an "apple sucks" thing.

Cheap chargers that connect to mains voltage are a serious issue, and it's not limited to knockoff iDevice power supplies.

Poor PCB design, cheap construction methods and no quality control create a fire and electrocution hazard.

So, a good move then

[AikonMGB]

Monster's general counsel said the move would "significantly disrupt Monster's business and that the two companies had worked well for years, with Monster paying Apple more than $12 million in licensing fees since 2008."

So, this is a philanthropic move from Apple, then. Monster are bottom-feeders that prey on the naive, and the world would be a better place without them.

Re:So, a good move then

[thaylin]

But then again so is apple.

Re:So, a good move then

[Phreakiture]

You know, I had mod points just a couple of days ago. What I wouldn't give for one right now. Kudos, sir!

Re:So, a good move then

[Aqualung812]

Apple only charges around 2-3 times more for a cable than the competition.

Monster's level of bullshit is another sport entirely.

Buying genuine Apple stuff is like buying parts from the dealership for you car. More expensive, and may or may not be any better than what you can get elsewhere.

Buying anything Monster is like buying a bottle of $100 window cleaner that has specially aligned atoms that will reduce wind resistance and increase speed on your car.

Re:So, a good move then

[thaylin]

I am not talking about just cabled, I am talking about in general, apple products are vastly overpriced for what they do, and the quality that they give.

Re:So, a good move then

[Carewolf]

Apple only charges around 2-3 times more for a cable than the competition.

Yes, but they bought Monster's headphone brand and are now selling "Monster" price and quality headphones..

Re:So, a good move then

[Trailer Trash]

I am not talking about just cabled, I am talking about in general, apple products are vastly overpriced for what they do, and the quality that they give.

I buy mostly Apple products. I'll let you in on a secret: I do it because the stuff tends to just work without any bullshit. Honestly, 20 years ago I lived for the challenge of making stuff work. Now, I have bigger fish to fry and hobbies that are more fun.

So, yeah, I pay extra when I buy stuff from Apple. Extra money, that is. Well, "extra money up front". It saves me money in the long run as my time is my most valuable asset (even when monetized) so it's worth it.

Re:So, a good move then

[Dixie_Flatline]

I admit, I have to wonder if Apple's markup is to encourage manufacturers to make cheaper cables.

I can buy MFi certified cables from Monoprice or even off of Amazon, and they're much cheaper than Apple's stuff. It's certified, so I'll trust it not to light on fire. If Apple made cables and sold them at cost, which they could surely do, they'd price everyone else out of the market. Apple has economies of scale that these other guys can only dream of.

So Apple marks up the prices on the adaptors, takes the abuse, makes a few bucks, but opens up the market to anyone that wants to make a peripheral and pay a small fee to be certified (whatever that means). As a result, I've got Anker cables and hubs at home. They work well, look nice and are easy to come by. I wouldn't have even considered them if Apple's cables were cheaper.

Re:So, a good move then

[seven of five]

Apple only charges around 2-3 times more for a cable than the competition.

I like saving money same as anyone else, but to my experience an Apple cable stands a better chance of actually fitting the socket and not breaking after 2 months of occasional use.

Re:So, a good move then

[VorpalRodent]

Aha! I knew I wasn't the only one who cleansed my car with Flüidé!

Re:So, a good move then

[sootman]

> a bottle of $100 window cleaner that has
> specially aligned atoms that will reduce wind
> resistance and increase speed on your car.

link please?

Re: So, a good move then

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft hardware rocks, too. I am typing this on my Nokia phone.

Windows 10 is going to cause a huge sea change. Probably first in tablets, though. If you were thinking about a new iPad or Android tablet, wait a month or two. Or buy an 8.1 tablet today.

Re: So, a good move then

[Anonymous Coward]

The cables for my iPod Touch were beautiful but delicate things. Over time the silicone jacket sloughed off under normal usage. They really didn't end up lasting longer than the $4 cables from some eBay seller.

There is a self esteem factor though. Spending money feels good, as long as you can afford it.

Re:So, a good move then

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no love for Monster and wish them out of business, but a certification should be about whether things work, not about who sues whom.

Re:So, a good move then

[bluefoxlucid]

Monster made a huge mistake here anyway. Apple acquires Beats, so now a rich-as-fuck company owns a dirt-cheap company. Monster loads up a fraud suit in search of a quick settlement, since Apple has too much money to bother with that shit. Apple goes, "U SRS BRO?" Throws Monster out of all its shit, relegating them to the bargain bin away from the Apple iAccessories aisle where all the cool kids bring their money to buy expensive crap.

$12 million. Apple has $120,000 million cash on hand, and you think they care about retaining your licensing fees? They had $28 billion in profit last year.

Re:So, a good move then

[sudon't]

Monster is looking more and more like a bargain these days. There are companies selling and, presumably, idiots buying, cables for five figures. This has become such a problem, that it took me a lot of searching before I could find simple, well-made audio cable for a reasonable price. But yes, Monster started it.

Re:So, a good move then

[Anonymous Coward]

"Monster are bottom-feeders that prey on the naive, and the world would be a better place without them."

I would say the same about Apple, actually.

Re:So, a good move then

[Anonymous Coward]

People bash Apple all the time for this. However, a one for one comparison finds that Apple items are not unreasonably priced.

If someone relies on their equipment, Apple's CS on a personal level is the best in the industry. For a business, it is different, since on the enterprise/business level, most PC companies have decent support, but on the SOHO/SMB level, Apple has a good reputation. Apple's security is also generally top notch (no malware infections unless the iDevice is jailbroken in the entire history of iOS.)

Re:So, a good move then

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the Apple certification is an excuse by Apple to avoid prosecution by the FTC for Sherman Antitrust violations.

If they wanted to ensure stuff is sourced economically, they would use commodity cable connectors that can be crimp assembled, and are available from standard suppliers like: RJ-45, CX4, MPO, SC, SMA etc.

The fucky cables are an attempt at price fixing, and the certification program is an attempt at placation. I assemble 100GHz cables that pass calibration every week in my lab. the connectors cost a few dollars, 12GHz SMA connectors we get for 53c, 5GHz CX4 for a couple of dollars.

There is no reason for these bullshit cables like HDMI, Thunderbolt, USB, etc, other than to fuck over consumers. The standard ISM connectors are cheaper, higher bandwidth, more reliable, easier to assemble and easier to connect than these crap connectors.

Re:So, a good move then

[Aqualung812]

I can't find the product page anymore, but here is the MSDS for it: http://www.dhmo.org/msdsdhmo.h...

Re:So, a good move then

[sootman]

lol. I knew about DHMO, didn't know they had an MSDS for it. nice.

BOILING POINT: 100 C
MELTING POINT: 0 C
SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 1.00

Wow, such nice round numbers. What are the odds? :-)

Re:So, a good move then

[Aqualung812]

Wow, such nice round numbers. What are the odds?

It isn't chance, it's in the specially aligned atoms.

E tu, Brute?

[JonSarik]

Typical Apple, stabbing their partner companies in the back. Harkens back to the Motorolla days.

Re:E tu, Brute?

[mrlinux11]

Not sure how you see this as Apple stabbing their partners, since Monster sued a company that Apple owns first.

Re:E tu, Brute?

[gstoddart]

Typical Apple, stabbing their partner companies in the back. Harkens back to the Motorolla days.

Well, that's one way to interpret. But it's complete bullshit.

The complaint, which was spotted by USA Today, alleges that Beats co-founders Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine concealed business dealings and slowly cut out Monster and its CEO Noel Lee's involvement on its way to selling to Apple in a $3 billion deal made last year.

So, the founders of Beats squeezed out Monster on the way to selling themselves to Apple.

But don't let that get in the way of your whining about Apple, or pointing out that Bill Gates eats babies, or any other crap you feel like throwing out which isn't actually based on facts.

Nosiree. This is clearly the evil Apple at work. Except, of course, it was Beats before Apple bought them.

Re:E tu, Brute?

[thaylin]

Technically apple did not own beats at the time of the lawsuit being filed.

Re:E tu, Brute?

[thaylin]

Your second quote has nothing to do with the first, aka your premise.

Re:E tu, Brute?

[BitZtream]

...

Monster sued Apple (via Beats) first. Thats hardly Apple stabbing Monster in the back.

This is pretty typical business, if you want to start a lawsuit against me, I promise you our business agreements and relationship is over. I don't think I've ever seen a contract that didn't explicitly state that even.

Re:E tu, Brute?

[thaylin]

Monster sued beats before it was owned by apple. Apple bought beats and is now cutting them off. That is very low. If this was allowed it would give every buisness a way to terminate a contract.

"I dont want to honor this contract anymore"
"well sir the company is suing this other company"
"ok buy them and then we can terminate our contract with them."

Re:E tu, Brute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Monster sued beats before it was owned by apple

You keep asserting things as facts which actually aren't:

In January of this year, Monster sued Beats, accusing its founders of fraud. Beats was acquired by Apple in 2014

So, if they filed suit in January, they sure as hell didn't sue Beats before it was owned by Apple.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Basically you're full of shit, and keep claiming things as facts which are absolutely not.

Do you work for Monster? Or are you just a moron on the internet who is too fucking lazy to read the damned articles?

Re:E tu, Brute?

[Anonymous Coward]

false

apple owned beats at the time

Re:E tu, Brute?

[mrlinux11]

Based on the article Apple bought it in 2014 and the suit was filed January of this year (2015),

Poor little monster

[Rigel47]

Getting pushed around? Not used to having to deal with someone that can bite back? Keep in mind this is the company that has a track record of attacking any and all start-up cable and connector makers.

This is a great read - a small-time cable maker basically telling monster suck it after they sent their default "infringement" claim. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/...

Re: Poor little monster

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a risk, though, when the shitheads that run Monster engage in struggle with the shitheads who run Apple. In the close combat, they could reach the shit equivalent of critical mass.

We laugh, but if the market transforms such that it's shit all the way down, things will start to smell.

The only area where it seems to matter

[wiredog]

Is power supplies, because of the fire hazard.

Re:The only area where it seems to matter

[The Eight-Bit Link]

So only buy power supplies where UL has said 'this won't catch fire or eat your cat'. Problem solved.

Re:The only area where it seems to matter

[gstoddart]

Right, because nobody has ever faked those.

Re:The only area where it seems to matter

[The Eight-Bit Link]

Which is why UL has a database of UL certified products. Enter number, get yea or nay.

Re:The only area where it seems to matter

[Anomalyst]

cats that chew on/claw power supplies deserve to be eaten.

Re:The only area where it seems to matter

[Fnord666]

cats that chew on/claw power supplies deserve to be eaten.

After being properly fried of course.

A perfect menage et troi

[Anonymous Coward]

Three of the biggest marketing company on the planet selling over priced tat relying on image and kewl-factor. All they need is SharperImage for a full Orgy!

Sometimes

[DrXym]

It's okay to hope neither side wins. May they spend many years in litigation fighting over the right to sell overpriced bullshit like cables and headphones.

Re:Sometimes

[Anonymous Coward]

Overpriced cables vs overpriced wristwatches? I'll pass.

Re:Sometimes

[XxtraLarGe]

It's okay to hope neither side wins. May they spend many years in litigation...

The lawyers always win.

Re:Sometimes

[Anonymous Coward]

No it's not. I'm an Apple shareholder, you insensitive clod!

Does Monster make overpriced watch bands?

[tomhath]

Seems like it would be a natural market for them.

Re:Does Monster make overpriced watch bands?

[Dragonslicer]

If you don't use a Monster watch band, you won't get true time fidelity. Monster watch bands give you perfectly clear seconds, while all those cheap watch bands will only give you ugly, degraded seconds.

Re:Does Monster make overpriced watch bands?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sloppy seconds, you mean.

Re:Does Monster make overpriced watch bands?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's all about the crispness of the T in tick.

Re:Does Monster make overpriced watch bands?

[jones_supa]

That kind of scam could actually be crafted by claiming that other watch bands create some kind of harmful electric interference to the watch.

Re:Does Monster make overpriced watch bands?

[Anonymous Coward]

you laugh but a poor quality watch band leaves room for play which over time will effect the internal mechanical workings of the watch potentially losing seconds per decade.

not to mention the health implications, with a standard watch band your watch could impact your wrist thousands of times per day creating microfractures in your bone structure. Once that reaches a certain critical mass only amputation is an option

Gold plating

[Anonymous Coward]

The goldplateing that Monster uses for the logo quadrrifies the trace resonance harmonics.

they had circuit city or best buy compare them unf

[Joe_Dragon]

they had circuit city or best buy compare them unfairly on tv with a monster cable running ESPN HD next to one with out a monster cable on ESPN SD.

Wasted money

[AndyKron]

Who would waste their money on Monster cables to begin with, or Apple products for that matter?

why want "made for iDevice?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Should not people rather want cables and peripherals made to a standard that will work with ANY device, whether from Apple or any other vendor?

Yes, I realize they probably are and do but they do not seem to be marketed that way.

Re:why want "made for iDevice?"

[danbob999]

If they wanted standard cables and peripherals, they wouldn't be buying Apple stuff.

Re:why want "made for iDevice?"

[fluffernutter]

The people that buy this stuff think that Apple 'just works'. Apple has been able to convince them if they don't buy products with 3000% markup not only might their Apple product not 'just work' but it will be their fault. So they happily bend over for corporate America due to the fear of the unknown.

Re:why want "made for iDevice?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that they are also the same people who believe the line that "Apple == superior quality", which is embarassingly far from the truth in most cases.

Re:why want "made for iDevice?"

[UnknowingFool]

Er, if you are making cables for Apple Devices, "Made for iDevice" is the standard. Not to say that you can't get good cables that are not certified. Some digital cable standards are controlled by private companies.

I'll try to get by

[Guy From V]

Luckily I have shitloads of old appliances that I can cut the power cords off of and a bag of wire nuts.

Business Model

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if Monster picked up SCO's legal team.

Monster accuses Beats of fraud?

[mark_reh]

The company whose entire business is based on selling overpriced cables to phools is accusing another company of fraud?

$12 million...

[Anonymous Coward]

so that's like what? 6 cables?

Monster Cables are Great

[drinkypoo]

They look great, they feel great, they work great. They have a shitload of strain relief and the really fancy-pants ones have this great braid on them that makes them slide across one another easily, and protects the cable from abuse. And as soon as I see them in the bin at a discount shop because nobody wanted to pay full price for them, I snap them up for pennies on the dollar. I have a whole bunch of Monster cables now, they really are great... except that some of the really pretty ones have pretty lame thumb screws.

Re:Monster Cables are Great

[ColdWetDog]

fancy-pants ones have this great braid on them that makes them slide across one another easily

I was going to ask what exactly are you doing such that 'sliding across one another easily' is important but then I decided that was probably not a good idea.

Re:Monster Cables are Great

[Anonymous Coward]

I was going to say something about the pointlessness of your post
But then i decided not to

Re:Monster Cables are Great

[drinkypoo]

I was going to ask what exactly are you doing such that 'sliding across one another easily'

Stay tuned for the steamy hot action of "Pullin' Cable" on SKINIMAX

Trendy Crap

[Anonymous Coward]

It just amazes me that Brand names tied to artists still govern sales.
Beats are crap, we all know it, and that same $300 could be better spent on a Pair of AKG's or Sony's etc....
The Kids will buy what looks cool and trendy, and at least we can then tell who's got Bling and who's got IQ.

12 million?

[bloodhawk]

12 million in licensing fees? so they only sold 12 cables in that time?

Bring out the stickers and crying hipsters.

[Pascoea]

So now the good folks at Monster will have to go put black stickers over the "Made for iDevice" logos on their packages, and the millions of hipsters will cry out in horror as their overpriced headphones will no longer work with their iPhones.

Re:Bring out the stickers and crying hipsters.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nooooooo! Where am I gonna find a $400 3-foot USB cable for my iDevice now?!?!?

Oh poor Monster

[Chas]

Someone might not want to buy their $5 for $50 anymore! Boo hoo!

What did they expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Gold plating is worthless

[ArchieBunker]

Gold plating connectors is worthless. Gold is super soft to begin with and any time two surfaces scrape there goes the few microns of coating. There is a reason most military gear is silver plated.

Re:Gold plating is worthless

[Anonymous Coward]

Gold is also a poor conductor of electricity (compared to the copper cable it is attached to). Silver is the best conductor of electricity, better than copper. Why anyone would want their connectors made of an inferior material when paying premium prices, I don't know. Obviously, conductivity is key to analog signals. Heck, it's good (though typically it doesn't matter) for digital signals, too.

Well, there is one reason: Gold doesn't tarnish, and tarnish is not good at conducting electricity. So if you plan to leave your cables out of the package for years and then use them, gold will ensure a good connection, whereas other materials require cleaning.

Re:Gold plating is worthless

[mlts]

A gold alloy is harder, so it is more resistant to insertions.

There are places where this comes in handy. For example, some PCs have an internal USB cable which plugs into the motherboard, then goes to the front ports. The problem is often the contacts corrode over time, which gives a spotty connection after a while. This is why I wind up testing a faulty USB device by plugging it directly into the motherboard's ports before tossing it altogether. USB connectors are generally made to handle insertions and removals, where a layer of oxide is scraped off. For connections that are long term, but use USB, going with gold plating might be wise.

However, there are other ways to solve this problem. DeOxIt comes to mind which is good for not just removing corrosion, but putting a thin coating of oil over them to protect against oxidation. Other people who have analog studios solve this problem by evacuating the oxygen out of the control room when it isn't in use using nitrogen gas.

Re:Gold plating is worthless

[Megol]

Gold is also able to be alloyed making it a near ideal contact material.

Re:Gold plating is worthless

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, conductivity is key to analog signals.

A 40% change in the conductivity of a micrometer thick layer is not going to mean squat in by far most analog connections. However, the several orders of magnitude difference in conductivity between an oxide layer and no oxide layer can actually make a difference, not to mention diode effects.

"Bullying"

[T.E.D.]

In January of this year, Monster sued Beats, accusing its founders of fraud....Monster is accusing Apple of bullying them

I think the term you are looking for here is psychological projection

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.

New Bullying Epidemic

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, here is proof that the "bullying epidemic" only exists for upper-class suburban white kids.

Solution!

[King_TJ]

Apple buys Monster and continues selling overpriced cables, as usual, except now with a "Monster Beats!" brand on them! :)

Bully Apple back...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's actually simple to bully Apple back. Press charges in the EU, even if EU doesn't have jurisdiction on the matter it will make EU investigate and never any good came from it for the companies being investigated, because if they do such practices somewhere else, they'll do it in the EU as well.

who are the quality PC makers?

[Midnight Thunder]

Just curious who the reasonably priced, quality PC makers are and how they compare to Apple? Also, consider after sales service.

All those that come to mind are at the same price point and quality as Apple. Actually, I can only count one: Lenovo.

I am not saying you are wrong (I am not saying you are right either), I am just saying I need something to put things into context.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell's aftercare has been pretty good in my experience, and their mid-tier (i.e. the most expensive thing without alienware written on the side) are generally pretty solid machines

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[lgw]

Geeks build their own PCs. Non-geeks have plenty of websites other than /. to read, no need to come here.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Cafe Alpha]

I buy lots of Dells. But they usually break in the first month and have to be fixed or replace.

I know mine must be an anomalous experience or they'd be out of business. But the do sell a lot of defective electronics. Maybe they don't do any burn in.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[dmullenaux]

Then why do you buy "lots" of Dells? They must be doing something right if you continue to give them your money.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

People like to compare only hardware specs without taking into consideration things like the machined aluminum case, and other items dealing with the feel/durability of the item.

It's like comparing a V8 mustang 5.0 - vs buying a BMW M3, or some other luxury brand. The feel, durability, level of finish, etc is all better in the high end vehicle - but performance is fairly comparable.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[ihtoit]

shockingly enough, Dell build Apple hardware, too. As do FloStor, Lenovo, Foxconn, Microstar, Samsung, Hyundai... about the only thing Apple actually do fabricate are cases.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[ihtoit]

what do you do, dance on them??

I still have a CPt from 1999 that serves as a digital frame (it's got a custom wooden case now).

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[ihtoit]

uh... there's no comparison really, the original M3 (the E30) shipped with a 2.3 litre inline 4 that put out 192 horses. The 3rd Generation "Foxbody" Mustang 5.0 shipped with a Windsor 302 (a 4.9l 8-cylinder block) for about 130 horses. Clear winner with a stock 2300lb weight: E30. Clear loser with stock weight of 3100lb: Mustang. "American Muscle" is actually pretty puny, so much so they have to exaggerate the spec just to get a sale. Speaking of which, the E30 M3 originally sold for $35,000 (US base stock - no options), the Mustang 5.0 went for $12,000. These days you can pick up an '86 Mustang for change out of a hundred bucks, a fair-to-good-condition E30 will set you back over a hundred grand.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

But that doesn't make Apple overpriced. They offer way more support for their product than companies like ASUS offer for a motherboard, and an Apple computer is more aesthetically pleasing. Of course to a gamer those things probably don't matter, but they are by no means worthless. It's like comparing a Ferrari to a Toyota or F1 Race care, the Ferrari is much more expensive than a Toyota, and much slower than an F1 race car, but the Ferrari has a much nicer interior to both of those. To some people it's worth it, to some people it's not.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[the phantom]

Yes... because the defining characteristic of a geek is the desire and ability to much about with hardware. Obviously.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you tried finding service for apples after the warranty is out? So many of the places that work on them are ridiculously overpriced. Of course by then, you should be buying a new device, like a good consumer...

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[lgw]

Well, it's pretty much what differentiates the geeks from the posers, yes. There's nothing you can buy, wear, watch, or carry that makes you a geek - it's the desire to understand how everything works, and to fiddle with all those details. I've always felt like my geek card needs a corner clipped off just because I don't root my phone (the shame!), but to not have at least one home computer that you've built yourself and use regularly? Well, at that point you might as well shop at Hot Topic and pay someone to cable up your AV equipment, as far as I'm concerned.

(Of course, there are also violin geeks and football statistics geeks and gearheads and whatnot, but we generally mean tech geek here).
 

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

All those that come to mind are at the same price point and quality as Apple. Actually, I can only count one: Lenovo.

Jesus christ, there are hundreds of what we call "computer dairies"* across our little country of New Zealand, and 10s of thousands across the US (I don't know what you guys call them). All of those little outfits sell computers of a higher quality and lower price point than Apple or Lenovo or Dell. Decent cases from Zalman and the like are way better than anything these big-name companies sell, and you can drive a truck through the price gap between an equivalently speced machine from a computer dairy and from one of these corporate outlets.

* In New Zealand, convenience stores are called dairies, because they sell milk. Computer dairies are similar hole in the wall joints that put together PCs and sell computer parts.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe they're also referring to the service those companies provide when something breaks, in that they're relatively easy to get fixed. All of the driver combinations and expected peripherals have been tested extensively; I've built my own PCs for years and there's always some problem I wouldn't have had if I'd bought a stock machine (though it'd have been far more expensive). They manufacture laptops, which the smaller computer stores generally do not. They can do massive orders easily.

If you need something that's been thoroughly tested in all scenarios, because downtime is unacceptable, a small store building custom machines isn't going to cut it. Might be fine for gaming though.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Asus. Obviously not everything they make; a €400 laptop obviously won't stack up to a 1200€ Macbook. However, the the zenbook line will get you a machine that out-performs the equivalent macbooks while remaining fanless and sturdy (all metal, fanless construction). My wife has the 800€ model and it compares favourably to the 1200€ Macbook.

Since you mentioned Lenovo, I should point out that I use an 1100€ yoga2. While its price is close to as much as a Macbook, it has far better specs: bigger hard drive, faster processor(s) higher screen resolution, 12 ours battery if you turn the backlight down... but, it does need vents, so one strike for the Mac.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[ruir]

Poor geeks. Rich geeks already have too much Unix systems to care at work and want the best and some thing low maintenance at home.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[dave420]

We have two possible explanations for your experience:

1. Dell do sell crap goods, and you are a terrible purchaser for purchasing lots of them in the knowledge they are crap
2. Dell's products are not as bad as you seem to think

I wonder which is more likely... :)

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[drinkypoo]

Just curious who the reasonably priced, quality PC makers are and how they compare to Apple? [...] I can only count one: Lenovo.

Actually, Lenovo has gone downhill lately. My favorites are Fujitsu and Asus. Fujitsu seems to take the whole thing a little more seriously than most other companies.

Re:who are the quality PC makers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you constantly stalk and harass apk for? Your post history is littered with massive amounts of evidence of doing it so don't attempt to deny it. Are you so obsessed with him doing better than you have in computing that you must stalk him harassing him constantly, psycho? He's challenged you to do better. It's clearly evident you can't. You can't even prove his lists of points favoring hosts files wrong, agreeing with him he is correct on them from recent replies of yours in exchanges with apk you've had.

Better Cables...

[Anonymous Coward]

I got me one of these fancy HDMI cables...
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQue...
It's only $13,499.75 and I got FREE Shipping! It made my TV look to realisticle that I thought it was a window, and low and behold it actually is a window! I can turn on any show and crawl through the TV set to join the show. Right now I'm inside Mayberry drinking Ottis's stash of moonshine.

How long until knowledge becomes normal

[stoned_ritual]

Seriously the only thing keeping companies like Monster Cable and Beats in business is the complete lack of knowledge of the average consumer. That a $40 MonsterCable is a $5 cable on amazon, or that an $80 pair of Grado Headphones sound immensely better than the $300+ Beats. Stop buying crap just because it costs more, idiots!

Re:How long until knowledge becomes normal

[akahige]

Since when does Grado make $80 headphones?

Re:How long until knowledge becomes normal

[stoned_ritual]

I paid $80 plus tax for my sr80i series phones on amazon. It was a sale, but still cheap and best sounding phones I've ever had on my ear holes.

Parametric Curves, eh afidel?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, Dr. Dre doesnt have his doctorate in accoustic waveform theory, but . . .

afidel would disagree. According to him, Dre has the ability to "evaluate the results of different parametric curves on tone signature". Er, I mean, he's better at listening to music than you and me.

Re:Parametric Curves, eh afidel?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Dr. Dre is a rapper, which has nothing to do with music. So his point is irrelevant.

WSJ Paywall

[gavron]

The original article link to the actual new story ("Apple decertifies...") is behind a paywall.
With all due respect to the Wall Street Journal, is there a reputable news source for this
that we can read?

Audiophiles and NwAvGuy

[hlee]

I wonder how many of you find the faith based approach of many audiophiles silly (or disturbing). Nevertheless, it's amazing how large the audio industry has grown, in effect selling snake oil. For those of you who have not heard of NwAvGuy, he's an electronics engineer (most likely specializing in audio) who called BS on the racket - ran his own analysis to debunk expensive headphone amplifiers, and went so far as coming up with a cheap yet excellent reference design.

Utilities use Aluminum

[MasterOfGoingFaster]

Tin, nickel, gold, copper, steel... what haven't I seen used for connectors? Aluminum, that's about it. I think we all know why, but the sparks that shot out of the outlets in the mobile home in which I spent many of my formative years due to oxidation of the aluminum wiring are a big clue if anyone doesn't

Electric Power Utilities are heavy users of tin-plated aluminum connectors. They are normally used with aluminum cable, so you don't have fewer issues with thermal expansion, etc.

Using aluminum cable with copper connectors will generally result in cold-flow degradation of the connection, leading to overheating and fire.

non-paywalled source

[ihtoit]

http://rapidnewsnetwork.com/ap...

Monster? Still in business?

[neo-mkrey]

Oh, right. I forgot. The world is filled with people who have more money than common sense.

O, the irony

[akahige]

Monster complaining that they're being bullied is rich.

Now they know how the legions of companies they've gone after for completely unrelated reasons feel.

They've deserved this for a very long time. It's nice to know that the boot they're feeling is being administered by a company big enough to not even remotely care how they feel about it.

Question: How's it taste "eating your words"?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & answer it vs. you doing it here http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... so keep "puffing that pot" fool!

* :)

Gotta love it - seeing you give me guff (yet being a "ne'er-do-well" pothead with nothing better to show for yourself vs. what I've done that gives others more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity), knowing you CRIPPLE your OWN thought processes with pot is priceless, since it makes it (& I've just GOTTA say it, you're making me do it) "too, Too, TOO EASY - just '2ez'" to utterly crush you by making you "eat your words", spiced with the bitter taste of SELF-defeat, + your foot in your mouth RAMMING THEM DOWN, rinsing down the puke you spewed on /. that I smacked you down with easily!

APK

P.S.=> Gotta LOVE pot smoking dolts - they're stupid enough to do what "stoned_ritual" did, & smash themselves into the ground everytime vs. myself, lol... apk

Question: How's it taste "eating your words"?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & answer it vs. you doing it here http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... so keep "puffing that pot" fool!

* :)

Gotta love it - seeing you give me guff (yet being a "ne'er-do-well" pothead with nothing better to show for yourself vs. what I've done that gives others more speed, security, reliability, & anonymity), knowing you CRIPPLE your OWN thought processes with pot is priceless, since it makes it (& I've just GOTTA say it, you're making me do it) "too, Too, TOO EASY - just '2ez'" to utterly crush you by making you "eat your words", spiced with the bitter taste of SELF-defeat, + your foot in your mouth RAMMING THEM DOWN, rinsing down the puke you spewed on /. that I smacked you down with easily!

APK

P.S.=> Gotta LOVE pot smoking dolts - they're stupid enough to do what "stoned_ritual" did, & smash themselves into the ground everytime vs. myself, lol... apk