Slashdot Mirror
"Clock Boy" Ahmed Mohamed Seeking $15 Million In Damages
phrackthat writes: The family of Ahmed Mohamed, the boy who was arrested in Irving, Texas has threatened to sue the school and the city of Irving if they do not pay him $15 million as compensation for his arrest. To refresh the memories of everyone, Ahmed's clock was a clock he disassembled then put into a pencil case that looked like a miniature briefcase. He was briefly detained by the Irving city police to interview him and determine if he intended for his clock to be perceived as a fake bomb. He was released to his parents later on that day and they publicized the matter and claimed Ahmed was arrested because of "Islamophobia".
Ok, I liked Clock Boy but this is just dumb. And $15 million? I sure hope he plans on donating a lot of that to science
throw the baby out. The bathwater is cold
The school certainly overreacted, but...
1) the kid was not arrested, nor did he suffer any "damages" in light of the celebrity and overly-friendly treatment from the President, and
2) once the jury hears about his overly-activist father and the lawyer's insinuation that the whole thing was a set-up?
I'm not seeing this one going very far.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
How much more American can you get?
F-ing moneygrabbers, they got a lot of positive attention because of it, he had his 15 minutes of fame..
No way the school district is going to pay 15 mill to this family that has already emigrated to Qatar. It will probably cost a few thousands in lawyer fees. On the other hand, that clock boy is going to lose all sympathy from most people. It lends credence to the accusation that the boy's father, a presidential candidate in south sudan or chad or some such place is quite media savvy and has manipulated the media and gamed the system.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Now he'll definitely be smarter than the other kids as the school closes down because of lack of funding. A true american success story.
I am sure that this is all his own idea and no lawyers were involved in the decision to sue for $15 million.
Mohamed Elhassan Mohamed and Robert Spencer once debated on the topic, “Does Islam Respect Human Rights?” The results were so bad for him that after the debate, The American Muslim pleaded with Muslims not to debate Spencer. In any case, this debate is one indication that Mohamed Elhassan has been trying for several years to make his bones as a warrior against “Islamophobia.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8BLtBFeyyo
The debate starts at 31:48, after an interview with Walid Phares. On a separate note, this Sudanese Islamic activist once claimed that that incident would “spread Islam” in America
That kid may have been innocent, but his father is an Islamic activist trying to intimidate anyone who has any concerns about Islamic activism.
This whole story since the day after the incident reads like a script from exactly what the tinfoil hat crowd said would happen. His father is laughing all the way to the bank and laughing at the foolishness of gullible Americans. They not only duped the SJW crowd, but even duped Obama, and they have already cashed in on their successful plan and sounds like they will continue to do so via a lawsuit. Even though there weren't any actual damages, it will be cheaper for the school district to settle, and then raise taxes so that they can afford to keep the school functioning for the other students in the district.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
The school certainly overreacted, but...
1) the kid was not arrested
Yes, he was. He was taken away from the school by the police in handcuffs. That's an arrest.
I think what you meant to say was, the kid was not charged. That's correct. He was arrested, but released without charges.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Clock Boy: I was arrested for making something that was designed to look like a bomb. Even though this was made illegal so that the cops wouldn't have to spend all of their time chasing down false alarms, I still want $15 million.
Judge Me: This is pretty much the most frivolous lawsuit that has ever come across my desk. I'm fining you $15 million for filing such a frivolous lawsuit. If you fail to come up with the $15 million in the next 5 minutes, you will be spending all day, every day making little rocks out of big rocks until you do come up with the $15 million. Case dismissed. Have a nice day.
The school district were clearly beyond clueless, I mean anyone with less half a clue can see it couldn't have been a bomb. I mean the lack of any explosive would be the first clue. But it seems to me that the larger fault here was the president's.
He clearly tried to politically capitalize on an unfortunate local event by blowing it out of all proportion and turning it into a country-wide sensationalist media circus. So now of course the money-grubbing parents are going to try for all they can get in the best of capitalist traditions, That doesn't make any of this right though.
Perhaps this case will be dismissed or jury will decide not to award damages.
However this will be an example. There was a story recently where two arab speaking US citizens were not admitted to the plane, because somebody feared.
http://news.yahoo.com/two-men-kept-boarding-us-plane-speaking-arabic-023330187.html
These two fellow American,s US citizens would have been better off recording the encounter, missing the plane and then suing for bona fide discrimination and would have won big time.
This paranoia needs to stop and one or two cases with proper settlements would help.
Detained* not arrested. At least I'm pretty sure, arrested only counts if they charge you, if they handcuff you without issuing charges than you're only considered to be detained
Yes, suing a school just de-funds the school, but what is the option? How else can you force the school to come to terms with the fact that it's principal is a braying ass? You're not allowed to sue a school to force it to re-train or replace a bad teacher or administrator.
...since they'd removed the cuffs, and she asked them to re-cuff him to she could take the much-ballyhoo'd picture? Surely being re cuffed induced some of his "suffering"?
For those countering the suspicion that surrounded this kid's actions with "why would he possibly put himself through this? What did he have to gain?"...there's 15 million reasons for you.
-Styopa
I keep trying to play on the relentless oppression of my German people since the Roman empire and how this is a crime that hasn't been addressed and has been repeated over the centuries, from the 100 years war, the Napoleonic wars, the anti-German discrimination against German Americans during and after WW I, the internment of Germans during WW II.
My people are being picked on, and it's been going on FOR MILLENNIA and I deserve a check in the mail.
The kid and his dad are provocateurs who deliberately baited the school teachers. Dad's sounds like he's been wanting to leave for a long time, probably spent his time dreaming this s**t up. They get nothing and need their visas pulled as undesirable aliens.
I'm not aware of anybody arguing to keep out legitimate Syrian war refugees. I *am* aware of plenty of people rightfully arguing that we need to figure out how to screen Syrian refugees before letting any more into the country to make sure that we're not paying ISIS members to come to the US. That's a whole nother ballgame.
Do you have ESP?
Don't bother. People who screamed the loudest about societal moochers are the same people who can't explain how the system work. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how to sign up for a free iPhone from the government.
“Ahmed never threatened anyone, never caused harm to anyone, and never intended to. The only one who was hurt that day was Ahmed, and the damages he suffered were not because of oversight or incompetence,” said the letter to the city authorities.
I guess he's learned how to threaten people, and in a very American way.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Detained is Arrested. If you struggle against the police slapping those cuffs on you, you don't get charged with resisting detainment, you get charged with resisting arrest, probably with a good beating thrown in to "make you comply" with your friendly, "not a arrest" detainment.
. :)
On the other hand, the lawsuit shows just how American this kid really is.
You are aware that it takes two to three years for a refugee to pass security screenings before being allowed into the country?
Schools violate children's civil rights every day. So do parents. Ever been sent to your room and told you can only come out when you apologize? Ever been kept after class as punishment? Ever been spanked? Ever been punished for swearing? All these would be illegal to do to an adult.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
This smells like bullshit to me.
This, This why his law suit should go nowhere. To sue for damages one has to show they were financially damaged. Good luck proving that a full scholarship is somehow a financial hardship.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
The school district acted inappropriately. A written apology is warranted. But even I want to tell the kid's family to GTFO at that price tag.
Finding God in a Dog
Want to bring it to the White House?
It's a good story and all, but is it true?
Why is the school being punished? The police decided to arrest him.
Unfortunately, there are heartless self-entitled racist bigots everywhere. Hopefully their bad behavior will convince others that judging people solely on where they were born or their ethnicity is just plain dumb. The republican candidates for president are doing an effective job in that respect, catering to their base via fear-mongering.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I suspect the distinction is important because I can't imagine a county can't be sued for executing an arrest, provided there was a basis for the arrest.
- If you are muslim and support the notion of sharia law, and most do, why not move to a muslim nation where you will feel more at home.
- If you are muslim and hate most Jews and the notion of a Jewish state, and most do, why move to the West where most democracies are based on Judeo-Christian ethics, which are wholly incompatible with islam and sharia law.
And, perhaps most important, why are other middle east countries, especially the wealthy ones like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, and others not stepping up first to offer their muslims brothers and sisters refuge? Oh, wait...
He was not making a alarm clock - as was widely reported.
Rather, he took an off-the-shelf alarm clock, and made it look like a bomb. He did this very deliberately.
Should the school have ignored, what could have been a bomb, because the kid was a Muslim?
What sort of litigation would there have been if it was a bomb, and the school did nothing?
Of course you do. But that's only because almost every person believes that THEIR opinion is a "reasonable" one.
I remember back in the day (I'm old) when a student would bring something distracting to school the teacher would confiscate it and the student collect it at the end of the day.
At worst, a student's parents would be called in.
But students were never arrested for bringing toys to school. That's just stupid.
... the kid was not arrested ...
Purely on a factual level, yes he was arrested, after being questioned for an hour and a half (how is that even possible?), and was taken to a detention centre, fingerprinted, photographed, and questioned further.
He was not charged. Possibly that's what you meant.
Bringing a hoax bomb to school is illegal. Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple Computer, was arrested and spent some hours with law enforcement when he brought a hoax bomb to his high school. A box that ticked, and then ticked faster when it was moved.
As for whether what this kid did was a hoax bomb, any Iraqi / Afghanistan vet can explain to you how the detonators of IEDs are sometimes made from the components of off-the-shelf consumer devices. So, its not unreasonable to see disassembled clock parts in a negative light.
So, if it's going to be a mega-million lawsuit either way, would it be cheaper in the future if they just go ahead and shoot the kid?
Setting aside that this would be an outrageous violation of civil rights and our own sense of morality, the cost in lost international goodwill and in gained propaganda value for terrorists would, IMHO, result in a financial loss far greater than $15 million.
He has sued for $15 million. He may get all of it, or none of it, or something in between. The courts will decide. That's what they're for.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Would it have happened to someone who isn't brown skinned I don't know, ...
Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple Computer knows. He was arrested as a high school student for having a hoax bomb. A bomb that "ticked" and then "ticked faster" when moved.
I don't believe the demand is made in earnest. No one, particularly the law firm representing him, believes that the demand has even a remote relationship to the damages (if any) he may have been perceived to have suffered. It's a publicity stunt - it provides free publicity to a small Texas law firm who may be angling to acquire more Muslim clients and it's a few more minutes of notoriety for Amhed's family (who will probably start another online fundraising efforts to fund the lawsuit).
This kid was sheltered from scrutiny by his family and his parents refused to permit the school to tell its side of the story. Now, the school and the police will be able to get their sides of the story on the record. Plus, I don't think little Ahmed would hold up well in a lengthy deposition or cross-examination by a competent lawyer.
If the school doesn't pay something in "hush money" then the family will eventually dismiss the suit to "spare Ahmed from being re-victimized." Can anyone imagine getting jurors to agree that this wasn't a hoax?
Clock Boy is a fraudster and a hoaxster, and only an idiot would pay him 15 mil for 15 min of fame.
Islamophobia is just as real as antisemitism. For proof of this one needs look no further than the millions of racists that argue to keep out legitimate Syrian war refugees
there are plenty of good reasons to not want to import more people to our country that have nothing to do with with their religion. for example close to 20 trillion in debt, job rates for actual americans is not good, homelessness in america.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
The police don't have to prove that anyone thought it was a bomb. They only have to show that there was probable cause to believe that Ahmed intended for the device to be perceived as a bomb. Given that his sister had been suspended for threatening to blow up the school and Ahmed had been suspended just two days prior at another school and the fact that the clock was not his design and clearly not intended to function as a clock (as the housing, which looked like a briefcase, would keep one from reading the clock face), they should have little to no problem to show probable cause (which under the law is not 51% probability, just a substantial possibility).
If anyone thinks that parts from a consumer device are obviously not a threat, go find an Iraqi/Afghan vet and ask them what sort of parts detonators of improvised explosive devices are sometimes made from. What was their training with respect to "clock parts" wired together in an adhoc fashion?
Suing for no reason and for unrealistic sums of money. All he should get is a written apology. The negative press the school received is more than enough in terms of damages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQHZ0kAInxY
Just the beginning
Look into who his parents are for example
I'm not aware of anybody arguing to keep out legitimate Syrian war refugees.
Ahem.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/...
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
The morons who arrested him for NOT MAKING A BOMB. That's right, THEY ALREADY KNEW IT WAS NOT A BOMB. They will ONLY listen if they're hit hard. And the morons who voted them in will vote them in again unless the voters are punished, so it has to be enough money that taxpayers will notice the sting.
Damn straight sue for millions. Shit, he should sue for ten times that at least.
It's the only way to make morons who don't get affected by this moronic thought police notice that it's a tragically stupid idea.
Who is responsible for my fear of snakes? Venomous snakes.
Who is responsible for my Islamophobia? Jihadists/Islamic "extremists"/Islamic terrorists.
If Muslims want to decry rampant Islamophobia, they should stop being the assholes of planet Earth.
sig: sauer
"arrest" -- from the French arrêter -- meaning "to stop."
If you are stopped and prevented from leaving, you are arrested (stopped.) If you are stopped/detained against your will without either charges or probable cause, the party that stopped you is guilty of false arrest. The police most definitely stopped this person against their will and detained them. That's an arrest. It's legal because they had probable cause a crime had been committed, but they chose not to press charges.
If you think this wasn't an arrest, then as a civilian, try putting cuffs on another random innocent civilian against their will and detaining them. You'd likely be charged with false arrest -- same as if the police did the same thing without probable cause.
Correct. And at that point his "my school thinks all Muslims are bomb-carrying terrorists" story collapses.
The school detained him and disciplined him because the kid was misbehaving and was disruptive. Neither bombs nor religion nor ethnicity had anything to do with it.
Being disciplined for an academic transgression requires being arrested and booked by the police?
All started with arrest of a young man at school for a hand-made, digital clock brought to school. Ended up not being that hand-made, was just some reassembly of some parts. Not much interesting, actually.
It caught attention due to alledged racism or religion issues (still to be confirmed?). Even the White House and President of USA have spoken on behalf of this young, intelligent man.
Which apparently was not that intelligent, techically speaking.
And now he seeks damages of, what ? 15 million ?
I would agree if he'd seek for 5 to 10K. But even then, after all publicity he got around him, probably not so much.
There's a word for what he (his family) is seeking. The word is "extorsion".
He had it (a plausible reason). He lost it. Nohing more to see here, really.
And what the hell does Mendel have to do with anything?
Genghis Kahn made international travel safe. Does that mean that being a barbaric warlord means you're good for public transport?!?!?!
What, PRECISELY does him being a Monk have to do with religion not being antithetical to science? Because science means questioning (and looking for the answers in evidence, IOW "that which is seen"), ...
Yeah, the scientific method, guess what ... in Europe various members of the clergy were partly responsible for its widespread adoption. A bishop in London comes to mind, don't recall the name. Sorry, most Christian denominations don't see science and religion as being in conflict, they study orthogonal topics. These religions specifically state that the discoveries of science, the observations of the workings of nature, are not in conflict with faith.
I defended this kid before, thinking that it sucks to get misunderstood and just because his dad is an obnoxious pot stirring lawyer doesn't mean the kid had anything to do with it but this is just stupid. I hope they get counter sued and lose hard.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
RALPH: Now, look Norton, your gonna go to the school with this clock I made that looks just like a bomb from the movies.
NORTON: Okay! What happens then, Ralph?
RALPH: What happens then? What happens then? Then, they go completely ape shit, and they arrest you and cuff you and give you a good cavity search, and then, you and me call this lawyer I heard about, and we SUE and make MILLIONS! It's fool-proof, Norton! FOOL-PROOF!
NORTON: I dunno Ralph! What if they think it's just a clock?
RALPH: Norton!
Enter ALICE
ALICE: Ralph Kramden! Are you cooking up another one of your schemes again?
RALPH: One of these days, Alice... POW!!! Right in the kisser!
ALICE: Ahhh, shaddap Ralph!
[Laughter, Applause]
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
the schools and people in the US offering him aid, scholarships are still offering.
Let us not forget his sister was somehow involved in a similar bomb threat situation. That the reason he was even suspected was because the clock went off somehow.
i can't say that he planned the suit from the beginning, but it was probably a possibility.
I just hope the lawyers demand that the family put up a bond against judgement of a frivolous lawsuit, given that they no longer live in the US.
Also, IO bet this thing does not survive his deposition.
If they thought it was a bomb, why didn't they evacuate the school?
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
I didn't change anything. I've been hearing for years how the government hands out FREE iPhones like candy. When I press people on exactly how to get a FREE iPhone, they either shut up or point to the government program for a FREE cellphone. An ordinary cellphone is not in the same league as an iPhone.
Is that why the "father of the modern scientific method" Robert Grosseteste was a BISHOP? Nevermind that monks are people who have taken religious vows. Mendel by the way was a Friar, which is similar but different than a monk. Either way, in both cases they join religious orders. This is something that any person wishing to get educated DID NOT have to do. Going to religious school and being a monk are not synonymous.
Americans are more likely to get killed by a gunman with an assault rifle and extra clips than a team of ISIS terrorists. What course of action would you suggest?
that if the suit gets tossed, in 5 five years he appears in some ISIS-like clone threatening to kill Americans.
The request could have been for a public settlement with $1 + a written apology + a plan to prevent it from happening again + time spent + actual costs + a suitable lawyer contengency fee.
Or maybe at most, also add in college tuition.
As it stands now, he looks like he is motivated by the cash and unlikely to get or fix anything.
He should have made a bomb where an acid and a base are separated until a timer is let off. He could have used Vinegar and Baking Soda in water, set up a gate so when an alarm went off.... fizz..
I'm not surprised he is doing this, just think the amount is ridiculous. Then again, he was arrested without just cause. The chief of police should have smacked the principal on the side of the head. in front of the students. Maybe a reaction like that could have avoided a reaction like this.
No, that would be incorrect. If you're not free to go, you are under arrest.
That just stupid. They should of blown him up, then said that he suicided himself with his briefcase bomb.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
You do know what an iPhone is? None of your links informs on where I can get an iPhone from the government.
P.S., The original "scam" got started underneath President Reagan.
P.P.S., You're welcome.
If recognized as a hoax there would be no reason to evacuate, yet as a hoax there is still a legal violation. The police could still become involved to determine if it was an intentional hoax or an unfortunate and accidental resemblance. Given that there were no charges it seems unfortunate resemblance was the result of the investigation. Keep in mind that people are also taken to the police station as part of an investigation.
Doesn't make it any less (or more) true.
Presumably because they decided to get police involved in what the plaintiffs feel is a school disciplinary matter? Their "overreaction" is what brought the cops there in the first place. That's just a guess.
He didn't win first prize and didn't bump off a teenage kid who created an ebola detection kit. He hogged the spotlight, that's fair criticism but it's very different than what was claimed.
Considering that an alarm based timer is fsking trivial yea, the device lacked anything that looked like an explosive, the most dangerous part was the exposed mains.
No sir I dont like it.
If this claim was true it would be widely reported, I can't find any reputable report validating the claim that the "handcuff photo was staged" and lots of reputable reports of the opposite.
Islam isn't busy murdering people with robot planes in Central American, on the other side of the planet from where they live. Islam didn't bomb two hospitals in two months. Islam hasn't overthrown democracies around the planet.
So again....self awareness much?
there are plenty of good reasons to not want to import more people to our country that have nothing to do with with their religion. for example close to 20 trillion in debt,
So spreading the debt across more people is a bad thing? What logic do you have in that refugees shouldn't go to high-debt countries?
Learn to love Alaska
Fuck that. The cops and the school knew full well it wasn't a bomb, yet interrogated him for hours and pressured him to sign a confession. And treated him like a bad seed just because he didn't roll over for the authoritarians.
If municipalities had to fork out for their dumbfuckery, their racism, or their racist dumbfuckery on a more regular basis, then they would week out racist dumbfucks from positions of power.
At least you didn't cry a river for "for the taxpayers", when it's the insurance companies who are the front lines of paying out settlements.
my argument on the matter is simply we cant afford to take in new people when we have homeless people in our country. until every american has a home and a job, we should not be be bringing in people who will compete with americans for our resources
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Like it's hard to put your arms behind your back if all you want is a "pose".
WYFP, xenophobe?
Ah, so that's why the Republicans try to sabotage the economy every chance they get, so we'll never be "good enough" to allow in those evil immigrants.
Learn to love Alaska
Where did you ever get that idea? You've never heard of compensation for Mental Anguish?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Oh believe me I know about Islamic religious crazies that would kill me given half a chance. For those, I am a firm believer of a steady diet of cruise missiles. We should not only wipe them off the face of the earth, but history should forever shame them by recording their behavior as evil.
However, some make the mistake of confusing every Muslim as a member of ISIS. Indonesia has the largest number of Muslims in the world.. and their human rights record is far better than Israel (don't see Indonesia's government stealing the property of Jews to give to Muslims like Israel continues to do with native Palestinians). Although I'm a nonbeliever (my parents were Christians but tolerant ones) I would trust a moderate Muslim, or moderate Jew with my rights over some Christian fundy wackjob that wants to ban Islam and teach creationism in schools. It's important to recognize people are individuals not stereotypes.
Being arrested requires that charges be filed. Ahmed was not arrested and not charged with any crimes, he was detained. Your twenty minutes is plucked out of the air and meaningless. Twenty minutes for a vehicle stop? Okay. Twenty minutes for charges relating to weapons or drugs? No way is that twenty minutes. The legal limit varies, but 24 hours is generally the limit that you can be detained without having charges filed (at which point you are arrested).
Ahmed was hauled off and _DETAINED_ for a reason. YOU may not agree with the reasoning, but that does not mean there was no basis. How people keep modding this lie up when law dictionaries are pretty easy to find is astounding (https://www.law.cornell.edu/). Well, not really.. it suits a narrative.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Until they ask you where the explosive is that the wires are hooked up to, and after that, when they ask you what kind of moron you are.
...in Radio Shack gift certificates. Also, the bigotry towards Texas is truly astonishing.
Or if recognized as the Easter Bunny. There was no hoax. If Ahmed had made the slightest crack about it being a bomb, you would have been hearing about that from Day 1. That didn't happen.
Nobody thinks that. We think that 14 year old boys bringing in clocks that they have torn apart and rebuilt in a new case for science class are not a threat, even if they might be Muslim!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Nobody thinks that. We think that 14 year old boys bringing in clocks that they have torn apart and rebuilt in a new case for science class are not a threat, even if they might be Muslim!
Its not a Muslim thing. Your logic could also be applied to a situation where a white teenage high school student of the 1960s brings a box that ticks to school. Yet that white teenage student had to spend a few hours with the police too. The student's name was Steve Wozniak, later co-founder of Apple Computer.
Again, its illegal to bring a hoax bomb to school. Even if something is recognized as a hoax there is still a violation of the law. Taking someone down to the police station to find out if it was an intentional hoax or an unfortunate accidental resemblance is something that has happened without race or religion being a factor. Note that one teacher told him to not show it to anyone, yet he continued doing so. Its perfectly reasonable to wonder if he continued to do so because he was playing a joke or something.
Considering that an alarm based timer is fsking trivial yea, the device lacked anything that looked like an explosive, the most dangerous part was the exposed mains.
Keep in mind that a hoax bomb is something illegal to bring to school. Even if recognized as a hoax it is reasonable to the police talk to the kid to determine if it was an intention hoax or an unfortunate accidental resemblance. Even if the "explosives" are missing there is the question of whether a kid who brought one major component had brought two. And once again I'll add, Steve Wozniak, cofounder of Apple Computer, spent a few hour with police when he brought a box that ticked to his high school. This sort of zero tolerance stuff has been happening for quite some time.
Until they ask you where the explosive is that the wires are hooked up to, and after that, when they ask you what kind of moron you are.
A hoax bomb is also illegal, so even if it is recognized as a hoax there is still a legal problem and spending some time with police answering questions is a thing that often follows. Its reasonable for police to determine if there was an intention hoax or an unfortunate accidental resemblance. Steve Wozniak, cofounder of Apple Computer, spent some time answer such questions when he brought a box to school that made ticking noises.
You... you... you've insulted me. I'm hurt. I hurt, and my soul hurts!
Here's $15,000,000.00
Oh, now I'm OK!
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
Or if recognized as the Easter Bunny. There was no hoax. If Ahmed had made the slightest crack about it being a bomb, you would have been hearing about that from Day 1. That didn't happen.
Cracks about a bomb are not required, resemblance is sufficient. He was told not to show it to people by one teacher yet he kept doing so. Whether a hoax or not is something determined through investigation, by determining if there was "intent". This is something the police do every day. And sometimes there is no intent, no crime, just unfortunate coincidences and people are free to go uncharged. Happens every day.
The rights of children are not the same as the rights of adults. The parents' responsibility for their children gives them special proper powers over their children, a subset of which, in loco parentis, are temporarily extended to schools.
Using their best judgement, parents may spank their children to prevent them from running in front of cars or kicking the neighbor's pitbull. This is not a violation of a child's rights.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Since the father - Mohamed Elhassan Mohamed - has twice run for president of Sudan, I decided to look that up and find out more. It's not your average immigrant to America who usually runs for the leadership in not just a foreign country, but one that is sanctioned by the US for its dismal human rights.
So in my search on him, I found this. In it, one of the things that he said that was interesting:
“When I went for the elections in 2010 they were rigid. When I was there my country was worse than I had left it. I saw people starve, and babies, die, and women cry in Darfur. No peace. No justice. So I am back to save my Sudan, so help me God. I’m hope for my country to become great, and to reestablish good connections with America. My country is going through economic hardship because of the embargo, and I would like to lift it.”
Which is quite an interesting attempt by him to be on both sides of the Darfur issue. On one hand, he was lamenting the suffering in Darfur. But why is there that situation in Darfur? Reason is that in Sudan, aside from the Muslim-Christian divide that was there (and no longer, due to the secession of South Sudan), there is also a major divide within the Muslim population b/w Arabs and Blacks. The Khartoum regime has always been an Arab dominated regime, and they consider Black Muslims insufficiently Islamic. Which would be fine had that been just an opinion, but it has been the motivation behind the persecution of Black Muslims in Darfur. Which is why the US and a lot of Western countries imposed sanctions on Sudan.
But those sanctions are something that the Clock-dad wants to get lifted. If the persecution of Darfur is ended, and proved to remain in that state for some time, the sanctions will be lifted - that's always happened. So whenever anybody talks about lifting the sanctions, they're talking about getting it done outside the framework of the persecution ending. So the man who was a provocative in the US is also someone who engages in sophistry about his own country.
He currently has dual citizenship of the US and Sudan. Maybe he might like to drop his US citizenship, and instead add on that of his new home - Qatar. Not sure whether he's an Arab or a Black Muslim - that would certainly be a major factor in whether Qatar decides to grant him citizenship.
Or it looks like some shit a 14 year old might throw together, being unlikely to have training in bomb creation and access to the explosives required to make that little box dangerous. It depends if you have a basic grasp of Occams Razor and a rational thought process,or watch a lot of Fox news and believe Muslims are the latest scourge of ne'er do wells looking to kill whitey and rape his woman.
The same can be said for Wozniak's hoax. Yet a white kid in the 60s had to spend some time explaining things to the police too. For a box that ticked, with no visible fake explosives. Now move the clock forward to 2015 with its zero tolerance against anything resembling a "weapon", where kids are disciplined for pointing fingers at each other. Racism and Islamophobia are not necessary to explain events, standard policy and a historical track record explain things quite nicely. A fan of Occams Razor should realize this.
Probably, everyone admitted that those fascists European dictators of the mid 20th century got their trains to run on time.
Mussolini made it illegal to point out that the trains weren't running on time.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
I know a lot of you might think this is a ridiculous thing for him to do, but maybe if there is actual punishment for people who freak out and accuse simple electronics projects of being terrorism - like 15 million dollars in punishment - people will start to use their brains and not running for the hills and calling the bomb squad for anything that looks remotely suspect.
Because it happened to Woz does not mean it was right. This device had no obvious explosive to be a hoax.
Mind you he may well of violated the letter of texas hoax bomb law if so the law is at fault as it's entirely to broad etc etc etc else your average metal lunchbox looks like a bomb as it's metal and rattles if shaken.
No sir I dont like it.
We are all united in spirit, in our humanity, our sense of being the same, and the spirit of human greed.
APK, please teach Ahmed how to edit /etc/host files in all UNIX-like operating systems, so that he can do that instead of making fake time bombs to take to school. The Qatari authorities won't take that so lightly.
...and yet nothing was needed to start god. curious that.
God preexists this universe because he moved in from a parental universe that spawned the current universe, various multiverse theories and such. See, no conflict with science. :-)
Because it happened to Woz does not mean it was right. This device had no obvious explosive to be a hoax.
Neither did Woz's. The argument is not that it was "right". The argument is that this is a long standing type of occurrence, one that does not involve racism and islamophobia. Keep in mind Woz's incident was in the 60s, now in 2015 with US school's zero tolerance towards anything resembling a weapon, including kids pointing fingers at each other, things get even weirder. Something **resembling** a bomb component more likely to cause a reaction.
And again, one the police are notified there is nothing weird about them talking to the kid for hours to determine if it was a prank or an accidental unfortunate resemblance. If the kid disregarded the first teacher who told him not to show it to anyone because, well, disregarding adults is something kids do, or if he was determined to get a reaction out of someone. And upon determining that it was all accidental it ends there. Well the legal stuff, not the media circus that misrepresents it all.
And Lemaître was horrified when people would associate his religion with the science he did.
Well, yes, because some of the great "scientific" minds of the day were rejecting his theory because he was a priest, because his theory "smelled of creationism" as one eminent man of science, a leader in the field, had said. He knew that the closed minded existed in both the religious and non-religious camps, that personal politics is heavily involved in science.
I've taken my own half-assed version of a taser to school, only to have my physics teacher one-up with me with a far simpler circuit.
Culturally that may no longer be acceptable, but I think that's a great shame.
Next time, the police should have just shot the shit. The damages for the accidental death would have been less.
Ah, the "it's the turtles all the way down" defence. Nicely done.
Ah, the "it's the turtles all the way down" defence. Nicely done.
It is kind of amusing that various mythological descriptions of the origin or end of the universe match some of the various scientific hypothesis. However the fact remains that many world class scientists think the multiverse hypothesis is worth pursuing. Apologies if science is perhaps finding an explanation for philosophical questions like what existed before time began, before the universe was created.
"Supporters of one of the multiverse hypotheses include Stephen Hawking, Brian Greene, Max Tegmark, Alan Guth, Andrei Linde, Michio Kaku, David Deutsch, Leonard Susskind, Raj Pathria, Alexander Vilenkin, Laura Mersini-Houghton, Neil deGrasse Tyson and Sean Carroll."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
This is one of those lawsuits where you wish both sides could lose.
Be who you are...and be it in style!
Gotta love muslims*. Move to a certain country ostensibly for a better future, then try to change that country and society to be the same as the one left behind.
I know one shouldn't blame the victim, but in many cases the so-called victims of islama"phobia" weren't just innocently walking along minding their own business.... And I for one feel it is very applicable to also take a hard and critical look at the victim's actions that led to them wanting to be labeled victims.
* = I also know I shouldn't stereotype and should have probably written "some muslims". It's just so sad that the daeshbag minority is so visible and vocal, while the silent, conservative, hard-working, intelligent, empathic majority are quietly working along being productive members of the societies they find themselves in.
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
If anything, the teachers should be suing him for mental anguish, not the other way around.
'briefly detained', to describe that he was fucking handcuffed, not given a friendly lecture by Sheriff Andy.
What's next; 'sunshine units'?
Aha, it's finally clear. It wasn't a bomb plot at all. It was just a cynical extortion scam.
On one side, the police and school administrators acted like total a$$holes in their handling of this situation. On the other side, the whole act of bringing a disassembled clock to school in a metal briefcase was a deliberate attempt to provoke this sort of over-reaction. Both parties are in the wrong.
I call it an "over-reaction" but we live in a time where gun-shaped things made of pop-tarts or cardboard are grounds for disciplinary action under idiotic "zero tolerance" policies. The disassembled clock clearly wasn't a bomb, but a timing device in a metal case looks more like a bomb than a pop-tart looks like a gun.
The kid's father is/was an activist with political ambitions. My guess is that he orchestrated the whole thing and it succeeded beyond his wildest expectations.
Hey, I can dis-assemble a clock radio and toss the components in a scary-looking box. Can I have 15 million too?
- The Kessel run is for nerf herders. I can circumnavigate the entire Central Finite Curve in a lot less than 12 parse
The correct response from the teacher would have been give that to me you can get it back at the end of the day or make the parents pick it up.
Police should never question a child without a parent or attorney. Booking etc fine but a child can not reasonably waive their rights to an attorney / have not reached the majority to be able to waive their rights.
No sir I dont like it.
Snopes has a good write-up of the state of things around this:
http://www.snopes.com/2015/11/...
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
The rights of children are not the same as the rights of adults. The parents' responsibility for their children gives them special proper powers over their children, a subset of which, in loco parentis, are temporarily extended to schools.
Using their best judgement, parents may spank their children to prevent them from running in front of cars or kicking the neighbor's pitbull. This is not a violation of a child's rights.
So you believe that spanking a kid will keep them from running in front of cars? How odd. If they're too young to understand the danger, spanking them does nothing. If they're old enough to understand the danger, talking about it is the better approach.
If you think spanking is not a violation of a child's rights, better not come to Canada. You're never allowed to swat a kid on the head, never allowed to use anything except the palm of your hand, and hitting a child in anger or in retaliation for something a child did is illegal, as is any form of corporal punishment for children under 2 or over 12.
It's completely banned in many other countries.
So here's the real question: Why would you hit someone you love? You're showing by example that violence is how adults solve problems, and that hitting someone you love is okay. Not the best role model.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
The multiverse does not answer the question of causality, but it is often used to obfuscate and avoid the question. The root question of "does something need to cause the Universe?" simply becomes plural "Universes". "How space, matter and energy, and all of the laws of physics (quantum as well as Newtonian) begin?" is the root question, and it remains just as valid today as a few thousand years ago when we first documented the question. Science can refute theological beliefs but it can't answer that question.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
This whole thing was a setup from the beginning. The kid brings something to school that looks a lot like a bomb. So naturally he gets arrested. Just like if a kid brings a toy gun to school. They would also get arrested for that, and it has happened many times before. The fact that he is Muslim has absolutely nothing to do with it and everyone knows that.
Of course, the press sees this and immediately jumps on it as a discrimination story. Then, predictably, everyone is tripping over themselves to declare this kid as some sort of genius. Offering him scholarships and trips to the White House. Fox was the only network that actually fact checked it and exposed it as a fraud.
And the parents...what kind of idiot would think it's a good idea to send their kid to school with something that looks exactly like a bomb in a briefcase? This was clearly a setup and now they are trying to extort 15 million from the school district. I wouldn't give them 15 cents.
Fuck you, clock boy.
And neither does god. It just adds "magic" into the equation.
And here I thought it was rocketry
And a beginning of the Universe from absolutely nothing is not magic how exactly? That is rhetorical, I don't expect a troll to actually understand that either solution is plausible, and in fact something causing the Universe is far more likely. Now go back to your Kool Aide, I'm sure there is Theology you could be focusing on.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
If I had to go talk to Obama, I would seek 15 Million in compensation as well.
Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
The correct response from the teacher would have been give that to me you can get it back at the end of the day or make the parents pick it up.
Agreed, and the first teacher he showed it to in fact told him to put it away and don't show anyone. Another reasonable coarse of action. Unfortunately the kid did not follow these instructions and kept showing it around. However once one person thinks its a hoax bomb we move from a school matter to a police matter. Did he fail to follow instructions because he was hoping for a reaction? That is a very reasonable thing for the police to determine.
Police should never question a child without a parent or attorney. Booking etc fine but a child can not reasonably waive their rights to an attorney / have not reached the majority to be able to waive their rights.
That may only be true if you intend to prosecute. If you just plan to yell at the kid and have a "what the f' were you thinking moment" before handing the kid over to his parents then it would not seem necessary to wait for legal representation.
The root question of "does something need to cause the Universe?" simply becomes plural "Universes".
Your off topic. I wrote that perhaps god pre-existed the universe, not that he created it. Hypothetically if an intelligent creature evolves in a parent universe and attains sufficient knowledge and technology perhaps they can somehow "move" into a child universe. Going with the a sufficiently high level of technology is indistinguishable from magic / godly powers idea.
And neither does god. It just adds "magic" into the equation.
Of course a sufficiently high level of technology is indistinguishable for magic. Any species that acquired the knowledge and technology to move from on universe to another would probably seem to have godlike powers to humans.
And a beginning of the Universe from absolutely nothing is not magic how exactly?
Not "the" universe, "a" universe. One of many. There are various theories presented by world class physicists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
If that gunman with an assault rifle just turns out to be a Muslim I bet you would be claiming it had nothing to do with Islam and that he was a lone nut.
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
This summary is a blatant attempt to rewrite events and put a spin on what happened. He was "briefly detained" so the police could "determine if he intended for his clock to be perceived as a fake bomb"??? That's certainly not what they said at the time. They actually claimed to have thought it might be a bomb, and that they arrested him as a suspected terrorist. Despite the fact that he never pretended it was a bomb, and told them very clearly from the start that it was just a clock. There was, of course, evidence to indicate they never really believed it was a bomb (like making no attempt to evacuate), but that's what they said.
I don't at all support ridiculous lawsuits, and this has all the hallmarks of a lawyer scenting blood in the water. But let's be honest and not distort what actually happened.
"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
I would reserve judgment and wait for more facts. It's call being open minded.
If they had no intention of prosecuting they should have never talked to the child forget removing him from the school, if that were the case (which I do not think it is) they should be arrested and convicted for kidnapping. In any case a police officer should never talk to a child without a parents permission to get more than basic info (name address parents contact info). A large civil penalty could help impress this on the police, I rather wish it were on the individual officers involved but we have thrown up far to many protections for that to be the case.
No sir I dont like it.
If they had no intention of prosecuting they should have never talked to the child forget removing him from the school, ...
Whether they intended to prosecute or not the kid was still a valid suspect in a potential criminal act. It was necessary to determine his intent. Starting from the position that this is most likely just an unfortunate resemblance does not change this, neither does the fact given his age if it were a stupid prank there will most likely be no prosecution, just administrative punishment by the school.
In any case a police officer should never talk to a child without a parents permission to get more than basic info (name address parents contact info). A large civil penalty could help impress this on the police, I rather wish it were on the individual officers involved but we have thrown up far to many protections for that to be the case.
And the stupidity you suggest is why things can no longer be handled in a reasonable informal basis as they were in the past. Your path will increase the number of overreactions and child arrests. My friends and I trespassed in some abandoned buildings when we were kids. The police caught us, asked us what we were doing and when satisfied that were we just "exploring" explained to us how old building like this can be dangerous and to stay out of them. You would put an end to informal interactions like that.
I was half his age reading schematics, wiring and soldering circuits from scratch by 10, at a time before abundant large scale integrated circuits. I never got invited to the White House (for that). I got suspended in the 11th grade for "trying to blow up the chemistry lab" by testing a copper chloride sample under a Bunsen burner, not because I was doing it wrong, but because it wasn't part of the lesson plan that day. To spite the teacher, I got a perfect score on the final up from a D- for failure to do homework. I want my fucking $15 million.
People just keep assuming that because I'm Irish that I'm a drunk. They should have to wait to find that out just like everyone else
" Unfortunately the kid did not follow these instructions and kept showing it around. "
According to the news report, the clock alarm sounded so the English teacher asked him what it was. THUS, he had to show the clock to her.
The English teacher than alerted the Principal. I do not expect the English teacher to know the technical details.
But I DO expect the Principal and Police to be more knowledgeable.
The Police did NOT evacuate the school indicating that they knew the device was NOT a threat. So the remaining question is WHY
they feel it was a hoax bomb. It's hard to see the same thing happening to a white kid in the 50's.
It definitely happened to a white kid in the 60s, Steve Wozniak.
Also a hoax bomb does not have to appear to be a genuine threat to a knowledgable person. There merely needs to be the intention to scare someone with something that can be mistaken for a bomb. Woz's hoax bomb was a box that ticked, no visible explosive simulant.
Turning off an alarm that has been set would be a reasonable part of "not showing it to anyone else".
Yes, but to be a hoax *bomb* there would have to be a hoax *explosive*.
Where's the fake explosive in any picture of this device???
There isn't one.
Did he even claim it was a fake bomb at any time??? The answer seems to be: no.
It's all a load of rubbish, and the police knew that, which is why they let him go.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Yes, but to be a hoax *bomb* there would have to be a hoax *explosive*.
Actually no, not at all. Just a sufficient resemblance to bomb components. Visible "detonator" circuitry would be sufficient. Again, Steve Wozniak, his hoax bomb was a box that made ticking noises, no visible explosive simulant.
Did he even claim it was a fake bomb at any time
The resemblance was sufficient to have a suspected hoax bomb and to have the police determine if there was intent to hoax or if it was just an unfortunate accidental resemblance. The police determining that it was an accidental resemblance in no way disproves that we had a **suspected** hoax bomb at an earlier moment in time.
The police were called in, they investigated, they found no intent and therefore no crime. The police did their job.
But this wasn't an opaque box, there wasn't anywhere the hoax explosive could be. If there can be no explosive (or detonator) in it, and if he's not even presenting it as a bomb, then it's not a hoax bomb, whether there's superficial resemblances or not.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"But this wasn't an opaque box, there wasn't anywhere the hoax explosive could be. If there can be no explosive (or detonator) in it, and if he's not even presenting it as a bomb, then it's not a hoax bomb, whether there's superficial resemblances or not.
It is only not a hoax bomb because of the lack of intent, and not because of the lack of a visible explosive simulant. The resemblance to a major component, a detonator, is enough to qualify it as a **suspected** hoax bomb. Again, note the word **suspected**, that it the bit you seem to be consistently missing.
Also note that in the real world not only are actual bombs making use of off the shelf consumer electronics for detonation purposes, but detonators and explosives are sometimes things that are transported/infiltrated separately and assembled on site. The lack of a visible explosive simulant does *not* suggest that no investigation is necessary.
I'm not aware of anybody arguing to keep out legitimate Syrian war refugees. I *am* aware of plenty of people rightfully arguing that we need to figure out how to screen Syrian refugees before letting any more into the country to make sure that we're not paying ISIS members to come to the US. That's a whole nother ballgame.
To begin with, it takes two years at least to process before coming to the US. As Trump will tell you, they can just walk in from Mexico quicker than that.
In that 2+ years they are already investigated by the National Counterterrorism Center, the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, Homeland Security, and the State Department (in addition to the usual health screening and personal questioning every immigrant gets). What additional screening do you suggest is going to do the trick, which we are now missing?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Irrelevant. Hoax requires intent. No intent, no hoax.
They freak out over supposed bomb threats at schools, while not evacuating the school, every day? The district and the police were incompetent reactionaries no matter which way you try to polish this turd.
I hope he gets it, though I'm sure it's just the opening salvo in negotiations, and he'll wind up settling for a lot less. But the Islamophobia of Irving's mayor and the flat out illegal actions and attitudes of the school and cops when dealing with this precocious kid will not even begin to change until it starts costing them a lot of money. It's the same with abusive cops -- the cities they work for will not rein them in until they are hit hard by hundreds of millions in settlements for the cops' misbehavior (I used to think tens of millions, but too many cities have shown not even that is enough). Justice doesn't matter. Rights don't matter. Decency and respect don't matter. All that matters to people like those who targeted this kid is their pocketbook. If you hit that hard enough, they will change if only to protect it.
Irrelevant. Hoax requires intent. No intent, no hoax.
Yes, I've said that dozens of times. However a suspected hoax warrant police investigation to determine intent. **Suspected** is the point most people are failing to recognize.
They freak out over supposed bomb threats at schools, while not evacuating the school, every day? The district and the police were incompetent reactionaries no matter which way you try to polish this turd.
Yes schools are a mess with their zero tolerance policies. However a hoax bomb is illegal, not simply a violation of school policy. A hoax bomb does not have to be ultra realistic, again, Woz's hoax was a box that ticked, not visible explosive simulant.
This is not a case of racism or islamophobia. What happened to this kid is "normal", right or wrong, it is "normal" behavior for schools and has been for decades.
Is the Moon a hoax bomb? If I claim it is a bomb, about to go off, is that now a suspected hoax bomb? Give me a break.
Anyone can suspect anything or anyone of anything. That doesn't make it a justified belief.
In real life we want justified beliefs.
The complete lack of anything resembling an explosive or detonator makes anyone suspecting it to be a bomb very stupid.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"The complete lack of anything resembling an explosive or detonator makes anyone suspecting it to be a bomb very stupid.
Clock components can be used as an improvised detonator, the alarm circuitry. So we do have sufficient suspicion for a hoax. Note that in Wozniak's incident we had a box that ticked, which also indicates clock parts, so the long established precedent is not one of high realism.
On that basis, any clock is a hoax bomb, it could have been taken apart and rewired.
This is just a moral panic. All Moslems are, of course, trying to blow up right-thinking Americans, and any behavior is interpreted as that.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"On that basis, any clock is a hoax bomb, it could have been taken apart and rewired.
Not really, and the fact remains that in this case there was the ad hoc wiring of parts.
This is just a moral panic. All Moslems are, of course, trying to blow up right-thinking Americans, and any behavior is interpreted as that.
Nope. We've already shown it happens to white christian kids as well, even in liberal California. There is ample precedent to disprove your assertion.
Moral panic
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"