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Apple Pay Has a Siri Problem (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Katherine Boehret of The Verge reports multiple issues -- systematic, as well as general unawareness among vendors -- with Apple Pay. Citing instances from her own experience, she noted issues when using Apple Pay at McDonald's, Pret A Manger, and New York City cabs. From her report, "If I buy something at one of the wrong registers, the cashier must log out of it and log on at the right register before re-entering my purchase so I can use Apple Pay. This has happened at least a dozen times." She adds, "When a tool like Apple Pay works, it's like magic. You lift your phone, use fingerprint recognition to confirm the purchase, and walk away. The Wallet app in iOS shows you a list of your recent transactions, and adding credit cards is a simple process. But if Apple Pay fails enough times or isn't accepted at enough places, people forget it exists or think it's not worth trying to use. It's a lot like Siri in that way: too many failed attempts and you'll never open it again -- at least not on purpose."
Wow, the summaries are terrible here anymore...I can't figure out if this is a siri issue, an apple pay issue OR a POS terminal issue....
"It's a lot like Siri in that way: too many failed attempts and you'll never open it again -- at least not on purpose."
I guess I've been lucky. I've never paid at the wrong register or had it not work right.
You must be new... Oh wait.
This space is not for rent.
Apropos Penny Arcade comic
The problem with Apple Pay is that it will never be ubiquitous enough. IT was a mistake for them to enter the market and they should leave now.
Good-bye
I've seen people -try- to use it... they fumble around with their phones, and takes about five minutes... far longer than even the dreaded check writer and coupon clipper does at the local grocery store. Actually seeing someone use it faster than it takes to have a credit/debit card run through... I've yet to see it happen.
I'm glad the new overlords went and fired all the clickbait posting editors and replaced them with knowledgeable geeks that know about news that matters.
Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
Obligatory Penny Arcade comic.
It's an Apple issue. Until iPoS registers are ubiquitous at all retailers that Ms. Boehret frequents, Apple protocols will not work "like magic".
I use Apple Pay on a daily basis. I've used it in NYC cabs and all of the same restaurants referenced in the article. Seems like clickbait to me.
too many failed attempts and you'll never open it again
If you don't want to use it, the FBI will be quite happy to help others help themselves to your Apple Pay account.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I prefer not having my every purchase tracked and data-mined.
I was puzzled about the headline for a while. Because Siri has had the opposite effect from that claimed.
At first when Siri came out, it didn't work very well - so I didn't use it much.
But over time I've used it more and more. Part of it is because every time you get new hardware, you simply try new things and over time I've found what things work well for me in Siri, and so I do use it quite often now.
The same is true of ApplePay. The ability to use it may be limited now, and there may be some failures. But with every new phone, or AppleWatch purchase the desire to try it out renews - and over time more and more places will have working ApplePay terminals. In the end use will grow, because using it is so compelling for so many reasons (not the least of which is security).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Maybe she needs to stop going to the wrong register
who was fired?
Not sure if troll or sarcasm.
Depending on your proclivities, it could be either.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I cannot count how many times I have been behind the person who whips out their phone to pay only to be stymied by some little glitch. Bewildered expressions are exchanged, the words "try it now" are uttered one or more times and the process finally progresses when a manager is called in to fiddle with the PoS...
I will stick with the mag stripe until adoption is much higher. It just works and is very fast, even with the stupid signature.
I don't think the issue is with the technology per se... it is still just too new and support is too patchy.
Still... we need the hipsters to deal with these annoyances for us so that we can experience a smooth transition.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Whenever my friend users Apple Pay at the grocery store, his credit union automatically disables his debit card and he has to call in to confirm that it wasn't fraudulent activity to reactivate the debit card. Apple Pay has never worked for him.
I have never had a single problem with Apple Pay, or Siri for that matter. Of course that may be because I don't use either one and wouldn't even if I owned an iPhone. It takes all of 2 seconds to swipe my debit card at the POS and be done with it. My phone is for making phone calls and once in a great while looking something up on-line. It will NEVER be used for making payments for a cheeseburger and fries. They say it requires a fingerprint to work. It has long been proven that all but the most expensive biometric systems are nothing more than a placebo. That is why most laptop manufacturers quit putting fingerprint readers on their boxes. They are too easy to get around and "hack". Trust it if you want, I personally won't.
What about your other customers wanting to use Android Pay?
I'm honestly not sure why we're using NFC and requiring special terminals for this anyway. Look at Samsung Pay, which tries NFC, then falls back to using an electromagnetic coil to communicate with a magstripe reader. That works with every terminal. So, my question is why use NFC for this at all?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
The merchant screws up so that is an apple problem..
Dammit Samsung, my car is out of gas again!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Please tell us your stores name and location so we can spread the word to not shop at your place.
I use google pay and your dimwitted decision blocks me, and I prefer to not shop at a place owned by a moron.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You do know that NFC readers work with standard NFC-enabled cards as well as Android phones, right?
...iPoS...
I think I had that model. Reintroduction of the LC-series?
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Mag swipe readers are being phased out. Credit card companies are shifting liability for fraudulent purchases onto businesses that still rely on mag strips.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
When i walk into a store i know for sure they will take cash or plastic. I NEVER know if they will take 'phone'. There is no reason to use Apple Pay until it can have the same reach as cash or plastic.
Good-bye
You know that the NFC reader will work for Google Pay and Samsung Pay, too, right? That said, Samsung Pay will also use an electromagnetic coil to communicate directly with the magstripe reader, so that'll work on any terminal.
Of course, that begs the question: why use NFC at all, when the magstripe reader already exists everywhere and is many times more reliable?
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
You'll be out of business soon. Not because of a lack of Apple Pay, but because you're an idiot
So is this really the fault of the device or the fault of the user?
I love how ALL Apple products and their support issues always spin it back as "the product is perfect, you're just using it wrong".
It's a real tiny place owned by his father in the middle of nowhere. The odds of you being their customer is quite low.
That's a really dumb decision. You should welcome customers with problems with your competitor's products with open arms. They're an easier sell to switch over to your product, no matter what the business, plus extra $$$ never hurts.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
There is no reason to use Apple Pay until it can have the same reach as cash or plastic.
Except if the retailer accepts it, it's safer than swiping your card.
Solving Unix problems since 1989...
IF you rely on only one payment method, you are doing it wrong. Google/Apple pay will never NEVER supplant cards and cash.
Good-bye
I have been using Google Wallet (now called Android Pay) for over 3 years with no problems. Leave it to Apple to do things late and mess it up at the same time.
Really so you are also blocking my Android phone. You sir are an idiot, guess what? Some people have a PC and an iPhone and some have an android phone and some even have Windows Phones with NFC payments!
So you run a PC repair shop... What a jerk.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
The Samsung Pay magnetic induction method is patented tech, from a company called LoopPay which Samsung bought.
AFAIK, they aren't licensing it to any other manufacturers at this time, because it gives them a clear distinctive advantage in an otherwise pretty-commodity marketplace.
NFC is also hugely more secure.
They'll still be used for gift cards (including reloadable Visa and Mastercard cards), store cards, and in cases where a chip has failed. Also, the liability shift (which took place last October for everything but pay-at-the-pump transactions, which will happen next October) does not apply to the token IDs issued by card issuers for services like Apple Pay, Google Pay, and Samsung Pay. Mag readers aren't going anywhere.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
You left out Microsoft Wallet uses the same NFC as well on Windows Phone...
And yea that is a store to skip. He hates people because they buy Apple products...
That kind of stupidity should stop when people get out of high school.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Define 'safer'. At the end of the day, banking is about TRUST not safety.
Good-bye
It is still accepted in most places...and the batteries last forever...
NFC is no more secure than using one-time tokens over magnetic induction. If the token only works once, there is no chance of replay.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
If I buy something with ApplePay, and then need to return it, and thus get the price credited back to my credit card. The cashier often requires that they see the credit card.
But you can't hand them the credit card that ApplePay is tied to, they're expecting some other number that Apple pay uses...
Each transaction is a one time card #. Your credit card can't be stolen by using Apple Pay.
That's what is meant by safer.
Pretty sure I want my banking more safe than 'trusty'.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
It uses exactly the same EMV protocol as the chip on my credit card. The only difference is that my credit card is a lot more portable than my phone and doesn't need a battery.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I don't understand what you mean. My card is perfectly safe. I am 100% not liable for fraudulent charges.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
With the fingerprint reader fiasco on the iPhone, I personally think he's wise to stay away from Apple. Had he worked on an iPhone and it broke in such a severe way how many people would end up blaming him for it rather than Apple?
Mag swipe readers are being phased out. Credit card companies are shifting liability for fraudulent purchases onto businesses that still rely on mag strips.
Not true. Liability has always been with the business. The credit card companies want to make some more $$ from the transaction fees and from selling new hardware.
I don't respond to AC's.
The chip cards that retailers keep bypassing because they're not working?
Leading to continued credit card theft?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
So she knowingly goes to the "wrong" register a dozen times, and it's somehow Apple's fault? Well, I guess it's step up for Vox, at least she isn't blaming her issues with tech on "sexism".
I never expected Apple Pay to reach the endgame for those exact reasons. Just like every other noncard pay system has. NFC pay which almost every phone except Apple already supported including the Windows phones... Every single tap to pay keychain... Etc. All that hardware hanging on the sides of drive-thrus and we still just hand the card to the kid in the window because it all sucked. I do not think it was ever the technology's fault so much as vendors refusing to try hard enough. Plus people seem to get dumber the easier it gets, soccer moms not understanding how to touch one thing to another...
Wow, the summaries are terrible here anymore...I can't figure out if this is a siri issue, an apple pay issue OR a POS terminal issue....
It's a vendor issue.
Apple Pay (and, I assume, the Android equivalent) works really well when a vendor hasn't done something stupid like turned off NFC payments by default. MUD BAY PET SUPPLY, I'M TALKING TO YOU! Unfortunately in that case you have to tell the cashier you want to pay using your phone, then they have to log in and turn it on, then you finally get to tap your phone...
On the other hand, with stores that implement it intelligently (such as my local McLendon's Hardware) - it's really a pleasure to use, and it definitely speeds up transactions.
Happily it seems like, over the past 5-6 months, NFC payment options are finally becoming more widely available.
#DeleteChrome
I've been using NFC to pay without issue at a ton of places since 2012, first using my Samsung S3, now on my Moto X (Walgreens, Sports Authority, McD's, Hess, ShopRite to name a few). Many more places since since Apple got into the game.
Other than CVS, which disabled theirs, I haven't had any trouble. In their case, I just switched all my prescriptions to Walgreen's so I can tap and pay again with no problem. In NYC, a **lot** more places have it now, some without even realizing it. Just look for where there's an iPad attached to a PIN pad. If you see the "wifi" sign show up on the PIN reader, they have Apple Pay/Android Pay.
It really isn't any harder than dragging out my card, but I find it a lot more convenient when I don't have to do that.
It's really a dumb, expensive fad. Paying with a phone will never make it big for many reasons. One of the biggest is that the merchant doesn't want to give up an extra 1% or whatever Apple/Google end up charging so that some customers can play a little bit more with their phones. It doesn't solve any problems.
I don't respond to AC's.
Wow. Such solid business decisions. Apple doesn't even know you and your little custom PC boutique exists. They don't care about any business you might cost them. The only thing you're doing is alienating potential customers.
Enjoy your pending bankrupcy, dolt.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Wait your phone is so heavy that you can't carry it around? Do you have one of those built into your car?
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
The summary is actually okay (by slashdot standards), it's the headline that sucks. Unfortunately, headlines are kind of important on a news site.
Well, you either pay for the first $50 or pay higher fees.
Then you don't have use of the credit card for a couple of days.
Then once you have the new one, any automated payments on it need to be redone. If you can remember them.
Your definition of safe is rather small in scope.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I use Siri probably 5 times per day on average, and I have a problem with maybe once per week. I have teenagers so, shit, Siri is way ahead of the game in understanding simple directions.
I can make a calendar entry with Siri in 1/10th the time it takes to do it on the phone or desktop. "schedule teeth cleaning on may 5 at 9am at franklin dental care". It just works. "ask my wife do you want anything from the store while I'm here?" "call my wife". "wake me up at 6am" I don't use it for thousands of different things but for what I use it for it really makes using the phone much easier.
Even my wife can use it with her accent.
My main gripe with Siri is that I cannot get her to call me "el conquistador" unless I use straight spanish for the language. I can change to spanish and say "me llamo el conquistador" and it works, but when I switch back to english she tries to pronounce "el conquistador" using english pronunciation rules and it falls apart. Sadly, "mein fuerher" suffers the same problem.
Do you have ESP?
Safer for whom? The bank? Meh.
My credit card number being stolen is not a risk factor for me, just my bank. I have no liability for stolen cards.
The problem with Apple Pay is that it will never be ubiquitous enough.
Never is a very long time. I actually use Apple Pay on a fairly routine basis. I'd use it more if more vendors would join us in the 21st century.
Actually what annoys me more here in the US is that they didn't implement chip+pin on credit cards. I can't even do it optionally. Lots of vendors still don't accept the chip and even the ones that do cannot be bothered (or allowed) to implement chip+pin. So I strongly prefer Apple Pay over using a card on that basis as well as convenience.
It uses exactly the same EMV protocol as the chip on my credit card.
Except here in the US they couldn't be bothered to implement chip+pin so the chip is effectively pointless.
The only difference is that my credit card is a lot more portable than my phone and doesn't need a battery.
"More portable"? How many people do you run into these days who aren't carrying a phone of some sort? I would drop my wallet in a heartbeat if it were practical to do so.
We could have a new process where your bank account is not tied to your phone with the advantage that you will not be stuck without payment option if you lose your phone. It also means less data you have to worry about setting up and transferring when you get a new one... I mean, what is your time worth? So I propose having a small piece of plastic, much like a card encoded with your bank account information. When you make a purchase you simply swipe it through the card reader to send the funds from your account!
love is just extroverted narcissism
Their "agenda" is to make good hardware and user experiences. Whether or not you think they are, that is their agenda.
Mag swipe readers are being phased out.
Not anywhere I go. Hell I run into more vendors that don't accept the chip on the card than ones who do. Mag readers aren't going away any time soon I'm afraid. Plus since they didn't implement chip+pin the entire point of the chip is rendered useless.
Credit card companies are shifting liability for fraudulent purchases onto businesses that still rely on mag strips.
And the vendors seem to not care one bit. They're more concerned about the cost of replacing their readers than the cost of the fraud.
For transactions less than C$100, Interac debit cards and visa and mastercard credit cards issued by canadian banks allow for a simple tap to complete a transaction: no id, no signature, no pin code. In case of fraud bank takes liability (although I think you have to notify them quickly if you lose your card).
The reason NFC is superior is because it has the ability to contact your bank through your phone and issue a unique credit card number with every single purchase! No more credit card number leaks/hacks!
I use Siri probably 5 times per day on average, and I have a problem with maybe once per week.
I use it maybe once every month or two. Most of the time it comes up by accident when I don't want it to. I also am often in places where I don't want to say instructions out loud to Siri. I have no interest in announcing to the entire office that I'm going to the dentist on Friday.
I can make a calendar entry with Siri in 1/10th the time it takes to do it on the phone or desktop.
When it works, yes. But I routinely have to do it at least twice because it (or me) screws something up. It's almost always faster for me to search by typing and it can be absolutely terrible about addresses. Your mileage may vary but I've found Siri to usually be more hassle than help.
I don't pay any fees, and I don't pay the first $50. That's the case with all three credit cards I own. I don't carry around the card I use for automated payments, but that's still a good point for those who might do so.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
This sounds to me like "I went to a cash only till, and tried to pay with card, and then the lady at the till had to re-scan everything at the card enabled till"
You're going to critique the writing by starting your post with "the summaries are terrible here anymore"? OK, whatever.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
This sounds sirious!
Cards will never supplant cash.
And cash will never supplant gold backed currencies.
And gold backed currencies will never supplant gold.
And gold will never supplant bartering.
Or you could just use the best system currently available to you and realize that technology continues to move and make our lives measurably better.
I use it all the time for "text my wife I'm..." leaving work/going to the store/on the way and so on.
I use it often for playing music or playlists. It works I would say 99% of the time.
I also use it sometimes for opening applications although that is more hit or miss depending on what the app name is... app developers take note that a really hard to pronounce name makes it hard to work with Siri!
I do also use it sometimes to trigger web searches though not often.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
There's nothing inherent in NFC that enables this; it's a function of the payment software and, thus, can be applied to magnetic inductance transmission as well. In fact, Samsung Pay does this; the number changes after every transaction.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
The security aspect is that the place you are buying from never gets any info from your credit card like number or name or anything. That may not matter to you but it's pretty obviously more secure than credit card transactions have been... the newer chip is better but so far only about 50% of readers seem to work with it, and frankly it taxes 2-3x the time ApplePay does to authenticate the transaction when it does work.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The whole goal of Apple Pay (and Tap and Go, for that matter) is the attempt on the part of the Consumerism Machine to make it as Painless as possible to part us from our money. They don't want you to really Feel that over-priced coffee and croissant bleeding your wallet dry, day after day.
If something is less than easy, it becomes painful if we have to go through it for no real reason.
As a Canadian, I had anything tap-related disabled on my debit card the second I found out it was there. (My bank didn't even ask me if I wanted it.) I had heard about it having been abused from the friendly folks at an international border crossing. They had just been "upgraded" to that system in the food court, and a number of them had all been charged mysterious things within the first DAY of it going live. Apparently someone was milling around in said food court near the fast food lineup and "read" as many people as they could, charging them small amounts that they ultimately hoped would go unnoticed.
No PIN needed, No signature. No "confirmation" of any kind. Just a near-field reader, and limited withdrawal plan spread over a few hundred people. It's a telling thing that the banks themselves don't use the Tap-and-Go feature in their own branches!
It's bad enough that debit is not as widespread as it is up here. I mean, if you can't pay with a debit card at a restaurant, why would people want to adopt such a system? Up here, if you don't accept debit, you will loose a LOT of potential customers in a hurry!
Debit went from swiping the magnetic strip, to inserting a chipped card (for an "increase in security"). Then they want to go to a PIN-less tap-and-go system? Hardly secure, in my not-so humble opinion.
Apple pay at least has you agree on a screen to your purchase, but is still vulnerable to near-field interception of data and spoofing. And nit just your debit, but credit cards too? The thieves just Love the idea of all that near-field data flying around for them to use against your account balance!
That, and it's one more reason to have your phone stolen...
Just sayin'
Personally, this seems like a configuration problem by the Vendor (McDonald's, etc), not an ApplePay issue. The fact that it works flawlessly at one POS terminal and not at another screams "setup issue".
And WTF, Over, does Siri have to do with this???
FFS, Slashdot Editors have GOT to be the bottom-of-the-barrel...
The chip does another thing. It makes it almost impossible to clone the card for Online transactions.
Don't care since 2/3 of the merchants I deal with have not upgraded their equipment to accept the chip and you still can swipe the card. Furthermore It does nothing to solve the problem of my card getting stolen which is why I give a shit about the pin in the first place. Chip+Signature is not secure and never will be. No security is perfect but chip+pin is pretty basic stuff.
Yes it is technically true that the chip does add some security by itself but without the other features it doesn't really matter much. It stops a handful attack vectors but leaves all the rest more or less intact while simultaneously pushing a lot of expensive equipment. Stupid on so many levels.
Mag stripe readers are scheduled to basically disappear from the US in 2017.
Won't happen. Plenty of companies are taking their good sweet time and I don't see them getting on board quickly.
By disappear I mean that the terminal will still have them but it will not let you use the mag stripe reader unless you first dip the card and the terminal determines that it is unable to process the transaction with a chip.
Some do. Most still do not.
It is the issuing banks that are not enabling PIN at this time. I suspect that it is merely a convenience period to help transition "dumb Americans" into getting used to the idea of using a PIN for credit transactions.
Correct. I cannot even do it voluntarily. Basically the banks didn't want to staff up to deal with the lost/forgotten/confused people who can't deal with a pin.
You clicked. It worked.
Hahahahahaha
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Now that "chip and pin" credit cards are becoming common, I don't see what these phone pay systems solve. Either way, I have to haul something out of my pocket, position it appropriately (stick it into a slot - wave it at a sensor) and perform some second-factor authentication (pin number, password or fingerprint).
While we're in the switch-over phase, I can use my credit card in old-fashioned magnetic stripe systems. Business owners only need to plug in the equipment (which they probably already have) and they're good to go.
I just don't need another system.
Siri (or "OK Google") is a marginal improvement - in some circumstances, it's easier to speak a request than to type it. I get that.
www.sjbaker.org
Apple Pay is just Apple's name for NFC. Look for the NFC Logo
Also called MasterCard PayPass, Android Pay, Visa Pay Wave or Discover Zip.
Samsung Pay is a bit different, in addition to NFC they bought a company that fakes a magnetic swipe meaning it can be used with any old magnetic reader.
Almost every place I've tried to use touch to pay works (And I don't even use my cell phone). Most places have had the readers since ~2010 and I remember McDonalds having them since ~2007ish.
It's handy to take my wallet out of my pocket, tap the screen and continue on. If any store you go into has a newer screen the reader is behind the screen, older payment kiosks have a little ''dish' looking part on the top.
You really should try walking around without your phone for a couple of days. It's not the physical weight that gets to you.
The first day is the hardest - you're constantly checking for something that isn't there. Wondering why work isn't calling you (did they fire me?).
The second day is still a little rough. You turn the corner and realize that you haven't heard about Donald Trump in 15 minutes. Maybe Russia started WWIII.
On the third day you awaken to true enlightenment. And you wonder how you stayed under the thumb of so many people and so many institutions for so long. The Tao of communication blackout. Your blood pressure drops 10 points. Your vision improves. You can taste your coffee.
On the fourth day you find out that your boss really means to fire you and your wife is about to stick her cell phone into places in your body where it shouldn't be. You turn the damn thing back on.
Nice while it lasted.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
... You realize the technology is vendor agnostic? You don't even have to use a phone. My Mastercard has a NFC in it allowing me to pay without taking my card out of my wallet.
Huh? So what if you don't like Apple as a company, that is totally irrelevant. When customers inquire as to whether or not they can use what in this case would be their favorite payment method, do you just tell them you don't except or do you give that whole spiel? If no, what if they press on the issue? Do you then explain you won't take their money because you don't like Apple, potentially disenfranchising them at the same time? There are a few banks out there that can be hated just as much as Apple. Do you refuse to do business with people who have an account at such a bank?
Picking and choosing who you will let give you money for products and services is possibly the stupidest thing I will read this week. You may as well put a "No iOS devices allowed" sign in your front window. In the remote chance I ever stumble across your business I would like to know just what it i's called so I don't make the mistake of doing business with an idiot, and I don't even have an iPhone and all around dislike Apple as well.. That is me as a consumer excersising choice. It is your job as a business person to eliminate or at least reduce reasons for me to do business elsewhere.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
I still haven't seen a very good reason to use Apple Pay over just taking out my credit card. I know that my credit card is going to be accepted and work in about 99.9% of the places I go, rather than the (insert randomly low percentage) of places that Apple Pay will work.
Only in the US - magstripe readers are insecure and a lot of places outside of the US won't even do swipes anymore - too much fraud. Heck, the magstripe reader probably hasn't been used in years since everyone's done chip+pin, so it may not even work if you tried it.
(NFC is used as an alternate interface to the chip for both formfactor as well as electrical interface and isolation issues). Plus, the US is moving away from magstripes as well.
I am no Apple fanboy either but, from what I have heard, they used industry standards so it is not a "lock in" like some of their other technologies. I have no idea if they get a cut of the transaction but I would suspect that they don't.
You might want to back off the ideology a bit because it almost certainly doesn't help your customers when you try to force a square peg in a round hole. By that I mean, computers are tools, not religions. Use the right one for the right job and I suspect your customers will be much happier.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
What's insecure about magstripes is that they use a fixed number. This is not true of magnetic inductance transmission, which can work just like NFC (with a different number or token per transaction), with the exception being that the magstripe reader is used instead of an NFC radio.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
What is your problem? The firmware ONLY takes Apple Pay. My merchant services company does not accept google wallet or android pay at all. They ONLY support Apple pay and I said no to their "mandatory" inclusion of it.
Picking and choosing who you will let give you money for products and services is possibly the stupidest thing I will read this week.
It's called "integrity". I wouldn't be surprised if you and many other Americans couldn't recognize it.
I don't respond to AC's.
Like others said, this is just click-bait, trying to twist the story into something about Apple Pay itself and how it compares to any issues people had with Siri not understanding them or working well with poor connections or no cell signal.
The *real* complaint, IMO, seems to simply be merchants who can't be bothered to upgrade their registers and payment terminals to support modern standards.
On Saturday, I shopped at several places (can't even remember all of them I went into), but I know Harbor Freight wouldn't let me use my chip on my card. The terminal had a note taped to it saying "No chip! Swipe only!" - despite having the physical slot in the bottom of it for the chip reader. Had the same experience when I got lunch at Subway in DC near the Faragut North metro station. Another reader that for whatever reason was working as "swipe only".
This might temporarily make me more likely to give up and just swipe a card when I check out someplace .... but that's only because I'm tired of things not working like they're supposed to with the option I prefer to use. As I see signs of it working properly in more places I shop, I'll go back to it again.
I haven't used Apple Pay a whole lot, to be honest. But it worked perfectly for me the last time I paid at McDonalds. I think with them, a lot of confusion on the part of employees (especially at drive thru windows) is the fact McD has their own iOS app in many U.S. markets/cities. With that, you have to hold the phone up to a reader (similar to what Starbucks does) to use an e-coupon (or to record the purchase of a drink that earns you a free one after 5 "card punches"). A lot of these people *just* got trained in how to use that thing, and don't get that "Apple Pay" is a totally separate process.
Not true. Liability has always been with the business. The credit card companies want to make some more $$ from the transaction fees and from selling new hardware.
No, grandparent was correct. If you take a trackdata swipe on a card that had a chip on it, and the data gets intercepted, you (the merchant) are now liable. Previously (and currently with chips) the network ends up taking the hit and chalking it up to the fraud percentage.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
Previously (and currently with chips) the network ends up taking the hit and chalking it up to the fraud percentage.
That's not correct. The network has never eaten fraud. It always goes back to the merchant, and has for at least several decades.
I don't respond to AC's.
Once upon a time in the United States, a shop owner could put up a sign saying "No blacks allowed". It was a matter of integrity, of principle, and duty. These people were being honest and exercising their moral principles. Integrity is not an idea that can or should universally blanket all in the same way. Donald Trump has Integrity. So Does Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton and the Westboro Baptist Church. When excising integrity into a capitalist structure, integrity becomes a problem because no two people have to see it the same. When integrity is applied to a very large audience it is executed with broad generalizations that that speak to many across many dividing lines. When it is not, that is what you see in an American political campaign, division based on people and groups applying integrity as it applies that group. Regardless, it is still qualifiably integrity.
At this point I should get back into capitalism, at least American capitalism, why it both can and can't work with integrity, and what those complexities are. But that is not the purpose of my reply. The point is that you are an anti-American bigot who needs to get off the whatever-country-you-are-from high horse and starting reading some books. Seriously, start with any old subject or genre and just keep going. It is all enlightening. Seriously, a reading god damn rainbow. By the way, what I have exercised here is called integrity. Look it up.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Because the service uses the standard NFC chip that comes on all new point-of-sale terminals except for some big chains that turn it off by policy, very few merchants who have Apple Pay are aware that it exists, let alone that they support it.
Just bless the POS terminal with your iPhone. If it lights up with your favorite credit card displayed, you can use ApplePay. The checker will look at you as if you just magically cured her liver spots. And no, you can't use AP at places where you are physically separated from the register, such as at drive-through windows.
It uses exactly the same EMV protocol as the chip on my credit card. The only difference is that my credit card is a lot more portable than my phone and doesn't need a battery.
It uses the near-field chip in the register, not the EMV chip on your card. and because the merchant has no access to your credit card number, you can't be skimmed or scammed. The number the merchant gets is good for one use only.
"Apple Pay is just Apple's name for NFC. Look for the NFC Logo [google.com]"
Bing! You're the lone person in this thread who gets it right. But although new POS registers almost always have the NFC chip, very few merchants have taken the trouble to use the NFC logo. That's why you just have to try it and see if it works.
How do you buy something at the wrong register and how can that be a common thing?
I've been using my Apple Watch to pay 100's of times for 9 months now and any place that takes contact-less has worked flawlessly every time.
Greed is the root of all evil.
You probably should stay on your meds...
Just because you are ignorant of the massive card fees merchants pay doesn't mean you don't pay them.
You pay for stolen cards. You pay in higher prices at the merchant and they give your money to the banks. It is truly shocking what the cards take.
Man, you really need that seminar!
Your credit card is also waterproof and doesn't shatter if dropped onto concrete. Which isn't to say that paying by phone wouldn't make a nice backup form of payment, but the times I've done it have been slower than using a card and left the clerk baffled and confused, which makes it less convenient than swiping a card while the cashier is scanning items.
Well, you either pay for the first $50 or pay higher fees.
Then you don't have use of the credit card for a couple of days.
Then once you have the new one, any automated payments on it need to be redone.
Why would anyone do automatic payments from their credit card instead of directly from their bank-account and void the credit card fees?
Nah. He doesn't actually run anything. They just keep him busy and let him pretend he's in charge.
Just because you are ignorant of the massive card fees merchants pay doesn't mean you don't pay them.
I have taken credit cards for many years. In person I pay between 1.15% and 2.89%, depending on the card and if it is swiped or entered manually.
Web sales cost more, again depending on the card used.
Some of that runs the payment network. Some of it goes to the bank that issued the card. Some of it goes to Visa/MC/Discover/Amex to run their business, and some of it goes to loss/fraud.
Keep in mind that those fees are what pay the "cash back" rewards that customers love so much, and it is a well known fact that people paying with cards spend more than people paying with cash. So frankly, it doesn't cost anything to use the cards, all things considered. I get between 1 and 3% cash back with my cards, so it is really darn close to even for me vs. paying with cash and getting a "cash discount".
You pay for stolen cards. You pay in higher prices at the merchant and they give your money to the banks. It is truly shocking what the cards take.
Not really, I've owned my own business for more than 20 years, took my first credit cards in 1996, it really isn't as bad as you claim it is.
I am confused, are they trying to pay with apples? I use money and it is excepted everywhere. I admit,, over 3 thousand dollars and I use those fancy check things.
Star Trek, there maybe hope.
Your comment makes no sense. What are these fees you are talking about? I have several cards and pay no fees. What I do know is that I don't want automatic payments set up to pull from my bank because that takes real money immediately. The credit card transactions spend virtual money that converts into real money once a month as a bill which I pay in full.
Exactly. There are several stores close by where I live that use Apple Pay and I'm usually out of the door and half way to the car before the guy in the next line has waited for his chip card to be read and authorized. I don't know why but Apple Pay is very fast, most of the cashier's comment on how much they love it. No more having people swipe cards several times etc.
In most countries that is simply not true. And even in those that it is, get your number stolen a few times and you won't like how you're treated. And you're ignoring that with things such as Apple Pay the retailer gets no information about you other than the success or failure of the transaction.
NFC + fingerprint ID + anonymous transaction. Not a small thing. Perhaps even more "bing-worthy" than the original comment.
I have used Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay, but mostly Apple Pay other than testing. I've been told by some merchants that Samsung Pay works on any of the tap-to-pay terminals but that these terminals have to be modified to accept Apple Pay.
Well, you either pay for the first $50 or pay higher fees.
Then you don't have use of the credit card for a couple of days. Then once you have the new one, any automated payments on it need to be redone. If you can remember them.
Your definition of safe is rather small in scope.
Firstly, those *are* tiny problems. Secondly, if merchants/banks were to lazy to implement something better and easier like chip+pin, what makes you think that they would go for something an order of magnitude more complex and troublesome like Apple Pay?
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Exactly. There are several stores close by where I live that use Apple Pay and I'm usually out of the door and half way to the car before the guy in the next line has waited for his chip card to be read and authorized.
Hyperbole much? I pay daily with chip+pin; less than a second to read, 2 seconds to punch in the code, 3 seconds to print the slip. I've never had a transaction go above ten seconds; that's the upper bound that NFC is competing with - ten seconds including printing, 7 seconds without printing.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Half of the pay stations in stores have a problem with my new chipped credit card too-- so the issue with out-of-date registers applies to more than just Apple Pay...
Your comment makes no sense. What are these fees you are talking about? I have several cards and pay no fees. What I do know is that I don't want automatic payments set up to pull from my bank because that takes real money immediately. The credit card transactions spend virtual money that converts into real money once a month as a bill which I pay in full.
Both the bank and the stores/institutions pays fees on your credit card transactions, so usually they try to discourage you from doing that. I know I would have to a pay an extra fee if I paid rent from a credit card, because they will just pass the 2.5% right back to me.
The NFC reader also reads contactless EMV cards. Have you never heard of American Express ExpressPay, MasterCard PayPass, or Visa Contactless? They've been around for several years.
You're just opening up the business to fraud that your shop is responsible for, due to the liability shift in October.
Before there was money, people used debt, e.g. a debt of one goat from person A to person B, recorded on clay tablets at the King's palace.
That makes an Apple pay linked to a credit card inferior to a debit card or cash, I suppose.
Here in the US, it's a lot easier to put them on a credit card, and as the credit card user I don't pay any additional fees. I understand that direct from the bank account is much more common in more developed nations.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Around here, chip-based transactions take at least 15 seconds because the terminals all get confused when you put something in their slot. At Walmart (and only Walmart, so far) it's closer to 5 minutes because the terminal tries to read it for a minute or so, then locks up and you have to have someone enter some code to reset it. Every single time. There's a guy in the self-checkout area in both their locations near me who's sole job seems to be resetting those things every time someone has a chipped card.
Integrity comes into play when there's some sort of moral issue. When there isn't, it's just being an asshole. How a customer pays for a purchase has no moral significance.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Retailers are expressly forbidden from forcing the customer to pay the fees. They just have to build it into the price.
First, I found you comment from the Facebook silo story and searched your history as I also don't like the various groups.
What is Diaspora like?
Can it be used as an online only site without needing people in the physical world to deal with?
Second, about the "Apple Pay Has a Siri Problem" story comment - https://slashdot.org/comments.... - I got from your history:
You mentioned not dealing business with a company that has a "No Apple Ipay here" sign.
To create an extreme example:
What if the KKK created an online pay method like those?
What if the store said, "No KKK pay here but ipay allowed"?
Would you still boycott it?
Why don't you guys have friends or journals?