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DNA Testing For Jobs May Be On Its Way, Warns Gartner (computerworld.com)

Reader dcblogs writes: It is illegal today to use DNA testing for employment, but as science advances its understanding of genes that correlate to certain desirable traits -- such as leadership and intelligence -- business may want this information. People seeking leadership roles in business, or even those in search of funding for a start-up, may volunteer their DNA test results to demonstrate that they have the right aptitude, leadership capabilities and intelligence for the job. This may sound farfetched, but it's possible based on the direction of the science, according to Gartner analysts David Furlonger and Stephen Smith, who presented their research Wednesday at the firm's Symposium IT/xpo in Orlando. This research is called 'maverick' in Gartner parlance, meaning it has a somewhat low probability and is still years out, but its potential is nonetheless worrisome to the authors. It isn't as radical as it seems. Job selection on the basis of certain desirable genetic characteristics is already common in the military and sports. Even without testing, businesses, governments and others may use this understanding about how some characteristics are genetically determined to develop new interview methodologies and testing to help identify candidates predisposed to the traits they desire.

228 comments

  1. testing...for.. by sheramil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Testing for jobs? WHAT JOBS?

    1. Re:testing...for.. by Kohath · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you test positive for DNA, you're not eligible.

    2. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Jobs HR was never going to let you near in the first place Neckbeard.

    3. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jobs in GATTICA!

    4. Re: testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humana need no apply

    5. Re:testing...for.. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1, Funny

      Testing for jobs? WHAT JOBS?

      Steve Jobs

      --
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    6. Re:testing...for.. by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 2

      Didn't you see GATTACA? Space Jobs!!!! /s

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    7. Re:testing...for.. by Salgak1 · · Score: 2

      He's Dead, Jim. . . .

    8. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Gattaca. It's spelled Gattaca.

      Thank you for submitting your resume. Don't contact us; we will contact you.

    9. Re:testing...for.. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we're checking for the second coming.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    10. Re: testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have they seen the movie Gataca?

    11. Re:testing...for.. by David_Hart · · Score: 0

      Testing for jobs? WHAT JOBS?

      Well, you have to be dead... then they take your DNA... So... Vampires vs Zombies?

    12. Re:testing...for.. by Anubis+IV · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The question about jobs misses the more important point: all of this is nonsense. For instance, in the summary they say:

      Job selection on the basis of certain desirable genetic characteristics is already common in the military and sports.

      No, it's not. Job selection based on presented traits is common in the military and sports (e.g. small jockeys, tall basketball players, etc.), not based on genetic characteristics. Sure, there are genetics behind those traits, but no one is using them directly to make decisions.

      And the reason why is simple: there are widely-supported, decades-old laws that anyone who has even a passing awareness of the subject knows about (but which the Gartner analysts apparently couldn't be bothered to look up) that prevent employers from doing exactly what they're suggesting will happen. Even if a job candidate volunteered their genetic information to "prove" they were fit for a job, the employer would still be barred from using it, based on the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act. It doesn't just bar them from collecting DNA; it bars them from using DNA at all when making hiring, firing, promotion, and placement decisions, regardless of how it was obtained.

      So, unless the laws change--which is unlikely, given the massive bipartisan support for that bill and the suggestions over the years that it should be strengthened even further--those Gartner analysts are way off-base.
       
      ...which shouldn't come as a surprise, since this is the same Gartner that routinely misses the mark in their predictions. Like when they suggested in 2011 (when everyone else had already seen the writing on the wall) that Microsoft would be second-only to Android in smartphone market share by 2015 and that RIM would manage to maintain its market share over that same period. How'd that work out, just 4 years later?

      If they're labeling an idea that's years and years away as "maverick", I'm labeling it "rubbish" (alternatively: "brain vomit from that week we didn't sleep because our boss said we had to come up with something").

    13. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will be hard to prove that an employer has used genetic data to make hiring choices. Nothing stops them from using it and lying about it.

    14. Re:testing...for.. by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Gattaca. It's spelled Gattaca.

      And apparently David Furlonger and Stephen Smith finally saw it last week.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    15. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vampires vs Zombies?

      Zombies would win on the popular vote, obviously. Too close to call in the electoral college.

    16. Re:testing...for.. by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Funny
      He's Dead, Jim. . . .

      but not as we know it!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    17. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Somebody's not up on his prison riot history.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attica_Prison_riot

    18. Re:testing...for.. by Atryn · · Score: 1

      The question about jobs misses the more important point: all of this is nonsense. For instance, in the summary they say:

      Job selection on the basis of certain desirable genetic characteristics is already common in the military and sports.

      No, it's not. Job selection based on presented traits is common in the military and sports (e.g. small jockeys, tall basketball players, etc.), not based on genetic characteristics. Sure, there are genetics behind those traits, but no one is using them directly to make decisions.

      Here is an idea... find a kid that tests genetically well for the traits you are seeking, let's say height and other physical traits for basketball as our example... Maybe in China. :) Now, don't use those to *hire* the person. Instead, have their parents sign an exclusivity contract or a real option - i.e. they WON'T go to work for any other team/entity or the contracting entity has an option to exercise. Some monetary payment is made for the option or an ongoing payment of some level. The contract and related future obligations becomes void if some tragedy occurs that ruins the future physical desirability (hit by a car and injured, for example).

      Now, you haven't used genetic information in a hiring decision, merely as the basis for a real future option and/or exclusivity.

      There, no laws broken. :)

      --
      Come play Moral Decay!
    19. Re: testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally, people will be aware of my genetic superiority over them.

    20. Re:testing...for.. by Ionized · · Score: 1

      that's the hiring equivalent of cutting through a gas station to avoid traffic and turn right at a red light, then telling the officer 'oh, no, officer, i wasn't illegally bypassing traffic, i was going to the gas station and then changed my mind in the parking lot'

      you think you're clever, but a judge will just laugh at you and bust your ass.

    21. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're spot on with the presented traits. It doesn't make sense for an employer to measure something that's a step away (genes) from the capability they're trying to hire (traits). It's so easy to just throw an aptitude test at you, or ask you stupid questions in an interview.

      The only time it makes sense to measure genes are when the traits aren't yet measurable (fetus selection), or when you specifically care about the probability of traits being conferred to offspring (mate selection).

    22. Re:testing...for.. by avandesande · · Score: 1

      For basketball I would claim another degree of separation. Even if you are 5'5" you can be a professional basketball player if you can 'hang' with the taller guys. Selection is strictly performance oriented.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    23. Re:testing...for.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that act is an American, sorry, US law right? Thanks for posting anyway.

    24. Re:testing...for.. by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I just assumed that any Europeans here were already aware of the fact that genetic nondiscrimination is listed as a fundamental human right in the EU charter. Was I giving you too much credit?

      Oh wait, maybe you're an Aussie Anonymous Coward. No worries, your government has you covered too. Canada? New Zealand? Brazil? India? Yeah...the list goes on and on..., but nice try, troll.

  2. Big news by Kohath · · Score: 5, Funny

    Something that isn't happening may someday happen.

    1. Re:Big news by BringsApples · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt this will happen, unless the costs for this type of DNA analysis comes way down. Currently the cost for this type of analysis is around $2,500. I can't imagine any employer willing to spend $25,000 just to interview 10 people.

      Of course, knowing humanity at it's current state, it probably will catch on in such a way that it becomes normal for everyone to have their own DNA tests done prior to applying for a job, and simply bringing in the paperwork to the interview. And of course, people will find a way for fraudulently do this, and humanity will be presented with yet another useless expense.

      --
      Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    2. Re:Big news by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      Gartner having a clue... isn't happening nor will it someday happen.

    3. Re:Big news by swb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hiring an employee for a job is expensive without DNA testing and as such represents a big financial risk for companies if the hires don't work out. I've talked to people who had to spend *days* taking a battery of psychological tests, physicals, etc to get pretty high level jobs.

      Adding in another $2500 doesn't seem to be that big of a deal if the cost to hire an employee is already $25k or more.

      The question I guess I'd ask is whether it will actually be useful. Will they actually be able to notice significant improvements in performance? I would think that the psychological and occupational type testing they do now would be 90% of the value.

    4. Re:Big news by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      If you want the job you will pay for your own DNS test and background check.

    5. Re:Big news by I4ko · · Score: 1

      Actually it costs only $200 and that is with a profit - source: 23andme.com

    6. Re:Big news by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      I seriously doubt this will happen, unless the costs for this type of DNA analysis comes way down.

      Full genome sequencing cost $100M in 2001, $10k in 2011, and is about $1000 today. If you just want to check for a few specific genes, rather than full sequencing, the cost can be under $100. These prices are expected to continue to fall. Larger companies can buy their own sequencer for about $5k, and do the analysis in-house for faster turn around.

      DNA testing in hiring may or may not be a good idea, but cost will not be a significant barrier.

      My prediction: The best predictor of future performance will continue to be past performance.

    7. Re:Big news by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I avoid companies like that. It's a sign that they are probably a terrible place to work, and likely have a high turnover rate. Often these tests are a reaction to that - some idiot consultant advises them to waste money on vetting and more consultancy because it must obviously be the people who are broken, not the company that is paying them and doesn't want to hear the truth.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Big news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not just tattoo your IP address on your forehead?

    9. Re:Big news by mrbester · · Score: 1

      MAC would be better.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    10. Re:Big news by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

      I seriously doubt this will happen, unless the costs for this type of DNA analysis comes way down.

      I am sure it will come way down.

      Many organizations drug screen and we have come to accept this (for some reason). Why would DNA testing be any different?

      I see a very strong possibility that this will come to pass. The reason I say this is because any time something makes financial sense for a business to do, then it will become legal if enough of them throw money at it (which they will).

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    11. Re:Big news by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

      Would MAC spoofing count as ID theft in this case?

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    12. Re:Big news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not finding those prices anywhere. Can you post a link(s)? The cheapest sequencer that I found was $80,000, and cost about $350 per run.

      Maybe, rather than spend all of this effort and money on DNA analysis, they could simply go by the people's birth date, and use astrology to figure out which groups of people work best together.

    13. Re:Big news by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      However the real question how much in DNA would determine if a new-hire will or will not work out?

      Problem 1: What makes a good leader? A good leader for company A can be a horrible leader for company B. It would even be different across many departments. IT Departments usually have well educated self motivated employees where the leader will need to make sure they are working in concert with each other, and their priorities are inlign with the institution.
      The Billing department may have lesser educated group who is just doing the paperwork and doing mostly the same thing all the time. A leader in that group will need to motivate that group and make sure they are actually doing their work.

      Problem 2: No Risk No Reward. Classifying people as a good leader will remove the diversity of leadership types. By having a mediocre (safe) leaders you will weed out the possibly bad, or the possibly genius leader. Who's different style really causes a positive change.

      Problem 3: Leadership homogeneity: Often highly motivated and aggressive people can put your company in political battles for power all the time.

      Problem 4: Nurture side of the equation: Genetics only goes so far. You could be genetically prone to be shy, but you have learned to be outgoing. You may still be an introvert, but you can act like an extrovert when needed.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    14. Re:Big news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the companies I've worked for (as IT worker), the only drug tests I've taken for them are pre-hire. Once you're hired, either as a FTE or contractor, that's it , unless you're hired as FTE from being a contractor (another drug test), or they have reasonable cause to ask for a drug test.

      I think a bit part of companies doing this is there are some job positions where it does make sense to do some periodic drug testing (equipment operators, etc). But to be "fair to everyone", they test all job candidates at least once.

      That being said, if anything goes wrong in the drug test protocol for these companies, chances are that's it for your employment chances there, as it's treated as a failed drug test. No appeal.

    15. Re:Big news by swb · · Score: 2

      That's why I think the psychological or occupational testing would be most informative. The DNA test only describes what the ingredients in the cake mix box are, the psych testing tells you what the cake tastes like.

      AFAIK there is no predictive DNA testing for personality or higher level psychological attributes. Hell, they often can't clearly identify genes responsible for some heritable physical illnesses.

    16. Re:Big news by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      This kind of dramatic fall in price is obviously not Moore's law,

      So lets call it "Less's Law".

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    17. Re:Big news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. But when it's all about picking someone from the yacht club to head a TOP500 to its misery pedigree is just enough.
      DNA testing for mid level positions is just trying to scientifically approve and encourage racism.

    18. Re:Big news by s.petry · · Score: 1

      I'm a Gemini you insensitive clod! Which one of me don't you approve of?

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    19. Re:Big news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you know if it's useful if they never hire anyone else? We will never know and I promise you it will never be tested. As in they will not hire someone without these tests, ever.

  3. About time! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gattaca, here we come!!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

    1. Re:About time! by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      Ummm. Uma Thurman. Bring on the blood tests ! (grin)

    2. Re:About time! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll willingly donate a sample onto Uma.
      For science.

  4. Ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There are laws that prevent employers from considering health, gender, religious views, and other deeply personal attributes when hiring a candidate. I don't see how this could possibly be allowed in the future (unless our laws change).

    1. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OR... The laws are ignored, kinda like whats going on now...

    2. Re:Ummm by ranton · · Score: 2

      There are laws that prevent employers from considering health, gender, religious views, and other deeply personal attributes when hiring a candidate. I don't see how this could possibly be allowed in the future (unless our laws change).

      Genetic testing is simply an egregiously extreme version of attempting to determine how smart, hard working, determined, etc. a candidate is, which is allowed by our current laws. If a company cannot use genetic markers which signify greater intelligence (if such a thing even exists), why would they be allowed to use an IQ test or school grades, or any other indication used to guesstimate a candidate's intelligence?

      I think new laws will be needed to stop abuses, because I'm not convinced our current employment laws are enough to stop abuse.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    3. Re:Ummm by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      There are laws that prevent employers from considering health

      There are laws that prevent discrimination based on permanent disabilities, and even then there is only a requirement for "reasonable accommodation". So you can refuse to hire someone in a wheelchair to work in your warehouse, but not as a programmer. But there is no broad protection of "health". For instance, my company refuses to hire smokers, specifically because they are unhealthy, running up insurance costs and taking more sick days. That is legal. Nicotine addiction is not a protected disability.

    4. Re:Ummm by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      If a company cannot use genetic markers which signify greater intelligence (if such a thing even exists), why would they be allowed to use an IQ test

      Using IQ tests, or any other test for general intelligence, is ILLEGAL in America.

    5. Re:Ummm by ranton · · Score: 3, Informative

      Using IQ tests, or any other test for general intelligence, is ILLEGAL in America [wikipedia.org].

      That is not true. That ruling simply ensures that employment tests provide a demonstrable link between the test and ability to perform job functions. In this case any high school graduate could complete the job (and probably even that is an unnecessary requirement). IQ tests are generally regarded as poor choices for employment related tests, but they are not illegal.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    6. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our current employment laws are a burden, and is why employers are fleeing abroad. No healthcare costs, low probability of litigation, favorable tax treatise, and regulation costs equal to current bribery schedule.

    7. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apparently it's not illegal for cops

  5. DNA testing is inherently racist by sinij · · Score: 0

    DNA testing is inherently racist, as genetic traits are heritable and are associated with your ethnic/genetic background.

    1. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      It hardly matters if we get to the point where we're editing our own genes and creating designer babies. No reason we can't have a nice blue-eyed, red-headed child with Asian facial features and a deep mahogany skin color with the fast twitch muscles and a mental disposition towards a strong work ethnic in order to make them a sports sensation.

    2. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      chinese people aren't short because of racism

    3. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So true. Science will trump politcal correctness.

    4. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

      It's racist to even think about how people are biologically different and some are better at things others aren't.

    5. Re: DNA testing is inherently racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. It has more to do with a crappy diet.

    6. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but it clearly is not. Is it racist when medical science has to adjust treatments based on genetics?

      No, it's not, but I see the politically correct ideological university diversity training is working out for you.

    7. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      DNA testing is inherently racist, as genetic traits are heritable and are associated with your ethnic/genetic background.

      And the genes that determine your "race" are not the same genes that determine your probable job aptitudes.

      Or are we going to only hire people with high-melanin skin genes to do outside work and unemploy all the rednecks? It'd reduce skin-cancer insurance claims, after all.

    8. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given that you need a job just to survive then how is this any different from, say, eugenics or genocide? Y'know...those other fun things we don't talk about much.

    9. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by epine · · Score: 1

      Basketball is inherently racist, as genetic traits are heritable and are correlated with your ethnic/genetic background.

      FTFY.

      What's racist about race is presupposing outcomes that were highly predictable on first impression, because it's lamentably a very short step for an advantaged social group—often one of relatively homogeneous racial composition, suffused with elaborate rituals of social etiquette—to conclude that a disadvantaged racial subgroup never given an opportunity to do x can't do x.

      Race isn't just some magic third rail used to divide humans into two distinct groups, in much the same way that humans divide house pets into two distinct groups: potty trained and not potty trained. There are days, though, where that can be a good working assumption.

    10. Re: DNA testing is inherently racist by Miamicanes · · Score: 2

      They also aren't short, anymore. Put a dozen middle-class 25 year olds who grew up in Shanghai next to a dozen middle-class Americans of random ancestry from Los Angeles, London, or Toronto, and you'll notice that there's no longer any meaningful correlation between height and ethnicity that can't be better-explained by wealth & social class (higher ==> access to better food and healthcare, and probably less stress).

      Remember, 500 years ago, most EUROPEANS were short, too... except for royalty, who literally towered over their subjects, mostly because they had more and better food during childhood.

    11. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      ... a mental disposition towards a strong work ethNic ...

      Best Freudian Slip of the Week.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    12. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by sinij · · Score: 1

      You willfully misunderstand this. Present day definition of racism is anchored on discrimination based on inherent traits. Therefore it follows that if you perform genetic testing for employment you will be discriminating based on these inherent traits. The only difference is that typically these traits were limited to visible characteristics and now we have technology to look for underlying genetic markers.

      That is, saying that you won't hire people with slanted eyes is not categorically different from saying that you won't hire people without X,Y,Z genetic markers associated with high intelligence and achievement. If you take this to logical conclusion, this means that the only way to not be racist is to completely discard the idea of baseline ability and instead benchmark individual's achievements over his or her own starting baseline.

    13. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by sinij · · Score: 1

      And the genes that determine your "race" are not the same genes that determine your probable job aptitudes.

      This is illogical. Why would genes that determine your probable job aptitude act any differently than any other gene? They are all heritable, at least when you talk populations.

      Hiring based on DNA testing looking for a specific gene is guaranteed to not produce diversity.

    14. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      If you are not bloody careful, soon Trump will trump political correctness

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    15. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

      DNA testing is inherently racist, as genetic traits are heritable and are associated with your ethnic/genetic background.

      Genetic variability between any two individuals of the very same tribe dwarfs ethnicity. This is why judging individuals on a genetic basis by their tribe/race is illogical and also why your argument doesn't hold up.

      I would agree for different reasons allowing this is a bad idea. Chance of these schemes ever being deemed socially acceptable in my estimation is 0... Probably also quite useless given people in many ways that matter are more or less products of their environments rather than genetics.

    16. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by sinij · · Score: 1

      Genetic variability between any two individuals of the very same tribe dwarfs ethnicity.

      Citation? Just because it would be nice to have, doesn't mean that nature and genetics work this way.

    17. Re: DNA testing is inherently racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or because they were first generation space lizards... but no one wants to talk about that.

    18. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Citation? Just because it would be nice to have, doesn't mean that nature and genetics work this way.

      No, I'm not going to give you a citation. You can Google it yourself. It takes seconds. This is a well known fact that has been widely studied.

    19. Re:DNA testing is inherently racist by sinij · · Score: 1

      Citation? Just because it would be nice to have, doesn't mean that nature and genetics work this way.

      No, I'm not going to give you a citation. You can Google it yourself. It takes seconds. This is a well known fact that has been widely studied.

      This is known as 'shifting the burden of proof', or informal logical fallacy. You are not offering citation because you are not familiar with the field of genetics and not sure what paper to cite to support your assertion. After Googling it yourself you quickly realized that by incorrectly citing you are risking on-point rebuttal for irrelevancy. Yet you manage to hold strong opinions, not grounded in facts, on how genetics is ought to work.

      Mulligan?

  6. Your Slavery will be complete... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just need this and RFID chips embedded then you can all live your slave lives till we say you can't.

    Brought to you by the one Religion that owns all your banks, media, etc. Your world.

    Better hope someone can drain the swamps soon, or your all screwed.

  7. Gattaca by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apparently Gattaca is not as far off as I would have thought.

    1. Re:Gattaca by ranton · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apparently Gattaca is not as far off as I would have thought.

      Gattaca simply took a concept which is almost certain to happen and took it to an illogical extreme to create drama and conflict. Not unlike many sci-fi books and movies. I haven't read any scientific literature claiming we will ever be able to use genetic testing to perfectly determine someone's capabilities, as explicitly shown in Gattaca by interviews consisting of only a genetic test. Nurture still has an effect, so genetics will only ever be one of many factors.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    2. Re:Gattaca by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      The problem with Gattaca - aside from the absurdity that one's genes could control lifespan to within months (too many other factors contribute) - is that presuming the central thesis is true, you have a person recklessly putting an entire spacecraft full of people in certain danger just to satisfy his own ego. Even Ayn Rand would have probably thought twice about creating a "hero" like that.

      Genes for high intelligence don't mean squat if the person in question was oxygen-deprived, lobotomized, or otherwise brain-damaged. And considering what traits contribute to leadership, the question is, do you make them CEOs or put them in jail before they turn out to be mass-murderers?

    3. Re:Gattaca by I4ko · · Score: 1

      Nah, it is more likely to be the probulator from Futurama.

    4. Re:Gattaca by mrbester · · Score: 1

      Mine requires a finglonger to operate, but it got lost in a house move...

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    5. Re:Gattaca by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      You could use my dialing wand.... oh wait... wrong franchise...

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    6. Re:Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The point of the movie was that his genetic problem that disqualified him from everything he dreamed to do was not actually a disabling problem - he was still able to do it as long as he circumvented the genetic police.

    7. Re:Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "I haven't read any scientific literature claiming we will ever be able to use genetic testing to perfectly determine someone's capabilities"

      That's just it, the fear (or mine at least) isn't that they'll perfect the technique, but that they will try to use it anyway. It may become a means of discrimination that they can utilize to justify hiring and promoting who they want.

    8. Re: Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point was that this is illegal! Why would anybody do that to their society? Despicable!

    9. Re:Gattaca by ranton · · Score: 1

      That's just it, the fear (or mine at least) isn't that they'll perfect the technique, but that they will try to use it anyway. It may become a means of discrimination that they can utilize to justify hiring and promoting who they want.

      We already have laws which require employment tests to have a demonstrable link between the test and ability to perform job functions, as well as criteria for determining whether a particular set of criteria have an adverse affect on a protected group. If you are worried these laws won't be applied properly, that is no different than worrying about abuses such as asking American Football related questions to weed out immigrants.

      I certainly agree people will try to get around employment laws, just like they already try today. But systemic problems such as those portrayed in Gattaca should not be used a realistic future possibilities. We have had these types of employment abuses handled in our laws since 1971

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    10. Re:Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only extreme in Gattaca is the desire to reach space, everything else is quite unexaggerated

    11. Re:Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "as explicitly shown in Gattaca by interviews consisting of only a genetic test. Nurture still has an effect, so genetics will only ever be one of many factors"

      i think that was the point of Gattaca, the main character failed the genetic tests. he was a "bad choice" yet he was capable of achieving anyway. The movie doesn't show the genes can perfectly determine someone's capabilities but infact just the opposite that the test is flawed. It simply shows that society accept the test accurate or not.

    12. Re:Gattaca by Holi · · Score: 1

      Current laws are not a problem, No one is going to be up in arms over HR 821 with Amendment 23 that allows for the use of DNA testing for employment in the financial sector.

      A few years later it will be quietly expanded to other sectors until, like your social security number, it becomes a de facto requirement.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    13. Re:Gattaca by Holi · · Score: 1

      I think the whole treadmill scene showed it was a disabling problem, hence the need to cheat the test.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    14. Re: Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gattaca is a fine movie but a total sham. We are not years, but decades from any of that happening if ever. We don't have daily shuttle launches and won't in most of our lifetimes.

      Oh, you meant the genetic discrimination? Yeah, that we have already.

    15. Re: Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disliked the "my heart is 10,000 beats past it's lifetime" or whatever. That's like three hour's worth of beats. An absurd level of precision that, if vaguely plausible, means he is within the error margin of killing the crew within a week.

    16. Re:Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 'nurture' component in the movie was a controlled one.
      When you control the 'nurture' element you can calculate how it will interact with the 'nature' component.
      You can even select the 'nature' that will result in the persons being more susceptible to fabricated 'nurture'.
      So i don't think Gattaca is as far fetched as you think.

  8. Crippled Jude Law's Blood to the Rescue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't worry, we've got a plan!

    1. Re:Crippled Jude Law's Blood to the Rescue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most guys who are right handed don't hold it with their left.

  9. Indistinguishable from magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Job selection on the basis of certain desirable genetic characteristics is already common in the military and sports

    Uh, yeah, after testing the individual's performance, which is a function of their genetic makeup, but is also a product of the very complex interactions these genes have with each other and their regulatory systems.

    If you want a detailed genetic view of how someone behaves you'll need probably most of their genome including non-coding regions as well as an idea of the modification of those nucleotides for epigenetic control of expression. You'll also need to model to the nth degree how certain mutations affect the performace of a given molecule and how that affect cascades down into other parts of their biology. After you've modelled all of this, there'll still be massive leeway in behaviour and performance based on personal experiences and lifestyle factors.

    This research is called 'maverick' in Gartner parlance, meaning it has a somewhat low probability and is still years out

    Yes, it very much falls into XKCD's 25+ years out group.

    1. Re:Indistinguishable from magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In other words, DNA tests as a predictor of job performance are as accurate as those personality tests currently used.

  10. Gattaca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Gattaca

  11. against traditional American values by gtall · · Score: 1

    this is. The traditional American value of getting ahead by hard work and grit is completely opposed to this sort of genetic pre-disposition. The nature-nurture conflict doesn't go away simply because HR can now test for nature and is completely incapable of testing for nurture.

    1. Re:against traditional American values by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's been my experience that if HR can test for it and not get in trouble, they will test for it. Relevant or not.

    2. Re:against traditional American values by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      That is a myth. The best indicator of anyones (financial) success is the relative wealth of their parents.

    3. Re:against traditional American values by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Given that parents tend to be the source of genetics also, maybe the parents are wealthy because of genetics too.

    4. Re:against traditional American values by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      100% correct. Of course we do that already by judging people based on their lineage and background.

    5. Re:against traditional American values by Bongo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think there's a lot about our old values which may need changing in the face of better understanding. Even now, left wing tend to assume that if someone is poor, it is because the social system is oppressing them, whilst right wing tend to assume that if someone is poor, it is because the individual lacks good character. And not only is it obviously a combination of both, but it is a complex combination involving genes, family upbringing, sub culture, and so on, as well as the local opportunities which were available. Plus, free will.

      And then there's complicated issues around how we define what's "fair". Is it fair that someone ends up poorer just because they didn't win the genetic lottery, either in looks or brains or some other marketable asset? And what if one day, say we discover a mechanism that proves reincarnation, as a sort of information transfer through some newly detected energy field. And then we realise, oh the capacity to be good and ethical and compassionate actually builds across lifetimes! So if you're "poor" as you're a "thief" then it is your lack of being willing to grow ethically across your lifetimes! And I'm not saying that's what is, I'm just saying, a lot of what we discover may challenge all sorts of assumptions.

      But one thing about those traditional values is that they can always be bent to interpret some fact to suit an agenda. So if genes really do play a big part, then they can see it as part of "good breeding" and how "hard work" can help you succeed enough to marry into a good family and so raise the genetic quality of your children. They can frame it as, a quality of being rich and smart is being careful and selective in who you sleep with so as to gain a genetic reward, ie. still conservative hard-work values.

    6. Re:against traditional American values by ultranova · · Score: 2

      The traditional American value of getting ahead by hard work and grit is completely opposed to this sort of genetic pre-disposition.

      Unfortunately, that value is at odds with the capitalist value of getting ahead by any means available no matter the consequences to anyone else. So you'd better hope that DNA testing won't give any measurable advantage, otherwise it'll be yet another lock in your chains.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    7. Re:against traditional American values by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, I personally contradict that principle.

      That's the problem with using crude measures in an attempt to sell people short. You waste human capital.

      You become a French surrender monkey.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    8. Re:against traditional American values by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Of course. Then they can fire you or fail to hire you for no reason at all and say "aha, he failed test x". Even though everyone knows test x has nothing to do with someone being a good employee.

      This is why we have and need laws against this sort of bullshit.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  12. I volunteer by unixcorn · · Score: 2

    The President of the United States job application(s) might be a good first test of DNA testing. Who cares about tax statements or emails when we can know whats in their DNA, right?

    1. Re:I volunteer by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Like the man said, we should at least drug test them.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:I volunteer by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The lizard people ruling elite will never agree to that.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:I volunteer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't actually need DNA testing to test for sociopathy. You can just as easily do verbal tests and pick out the best sociopath for the job that way.

  13. My twin brother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well if this wasn't bullshit, then my identical twin brother wouldn't be a couch potato stoner while the rest of the family works 10 hours a day.

    I pity anyone who takes his DNA and hires him.

    1. Re:My twin brother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His being an unemployed couch potato has nothing to do with being a stoner. Most, if not all cannabis users I have known have an excellent work ethic and are highly successful.

      Just because you do not like cannabis, does not mean it is not fine for others. Me, I cant stand alcohol, and most drinkers I have known are slackers that do significant damage to their families and their employers. In that case, the substance is related to their issues.

      Just thought I'd clear that up.

    2. Re:My twin brother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently being a stoner doesn't impair comment posting rate.

  14. Nepotism? by Coisiche · · Score: 1

    Is this just paving the way toward scientific justification for nepotism? No tests needed for some, obviously, that's just for the ordinary folks.

    1. Re:Nepotism? by skids · · Score: 1

      No, a scientific approach would realize that it's necessary to throw random genomes at a problem in perpetuity or you'll stagnate at a local minima... and that investing in such a program is only helpful in that it generates data to be analyzed decades down the road when in-place gene editing has reached an adequate level of safety.

  15. gattaca did it first! by Idisagree · · Score: 2

    Preselection before you have spoken a word or conducted an action... What could go wrong?

  16. UNIONIZE NOW! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 0

    It's time before the clue less hr's black list people.

  17. Aptitude vs. Effort by omnichad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So they're more likely to hire someone who's very good at something they're too lazy to do.

    1. Re:Aptitude vs. Effort by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, there's very little chance of this being used to positively identify people with potential. We already have system for doing that ("let ke see your portfolio").

      It'd be much more likely used to disqualify people without potential. "You're portfolio is impressive but you tested negative for [gene] so we'll pass."

      And the later is unlikely to take hold unless by some fluke of nature it turns out to precisely match existing racism/sexism.

  18. But really that's not how it works. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are no genes for leadership or any of the other complex social traits listed. The papers reporting this kind of thing are usually little more than poorly designed and executed correlative studies. The results, while statistically significant, are meaningless without hard biological proof showing a verifiable mechanism.

    You can do the same thing be comparing random physical traits in a large enough population. You might find for instance that having an average finger length that is easily divisible by two is associated with leadership. It's statistically significant but meaningless.

    Though on the other hand I suppose any company or invested dumb enough to buy into this kind of bunk science is just as likely to get scammed in some other way.

    1. Re:But really that's not how it works. by bargainsale · · Score: 1

      Exactly.
      If you read the words "the gene for ..." relating to human beings in anything other than a medical context, you can be 95% certain that reading further is a waste of your time.
      This reveals a basically magical, not scientific, idea of what "genes" are. Or a scammer.

      Even in medical contexts, there is a vast gap between identifying a genetic variation associated with a disease and figuring out what the gene actually does and how the disease actually arises. It's the *beginning* of the real research.

      A lot of this crap works along the lines of "Ooh, people with abnormalities in this gene can't speak" from which is deduced "Eureka! we've found the gene for language!"

      --
      Aberrations have appeared in my destiny prognostication engine!
  19. Anyone who hires based on DNA is a fool by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Interesting

    OK, it is already known that DNA is not the code science once thought it was. DNA interacts with the rest of the cell to produce its results. If the rest of the contents of the cell differ in specific ways, the results of specific DNA is different.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  20. Nature vs. Nurture by Alomex · · Score: 2

    Except that for many traits, Nurture dominates Nature. E.g. there are less academics coming from poor communities, be them the ghetto or the Appalachian mountains, than from middle class groups. You can do all the DNA test you want, but Nurture dominates in this case as in many others.

    1. Re:Nature vs. Nurture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "many traits"

      Please specify. Certainly not intellectual capacity.

    2. Re:Nature vs. Nurture by Alomex · · Score: 1

      Certainly intellectual capacity. Do you do better when you study for a test than when you don't? That is nurture training of your intellectual capacity. An average person who studied will far outdo a genius who didn't even read the notes.

  21. I don't know... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I prefer to test people for what they can do instead of testing them what they're supposed to be good at. Mostly 'cause my clients want a product and are not satisfied knowing what we could do with the machinery we have.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:I don't know... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It will be large companies with many staff who are more interested in this. They will try to avoid people whose DNA suggests they may be more prone to medical conditions like cancer that involve significant time off and push up medical insurance costs.

      They will also be lured in by the usual big data nonsense about being able to detect hidden trends related to certain genetic markers. People with ginger hair taking an average of 3% longer bathroom breaks, that sort of thing.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:I don't know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      avoid people whose DNA suggests they may be more prone to medical conditions like cancer that involve significant time off

      And that's exactly why this will never happen. When did Slashdot start taking Gartner predictions seriously?

    3. Re:I don't know... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Compared to that junk, phrenology looks like some serious science.

      That's bullshit, and anyone who has spent more than a lecture in statistics knows that. Too bad the average manager is as useful for decision making as the average magic 8-ball.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  22. Probably won't work very well by bangular · · Score: 1

    The problem with something like this is that genes don't always express and gene expression isn't binary (on/off). So someone might test as a good leader and then when stressed by the job their gene expression changes and they aren't a good leader anymore. Someone with a biology background can correct me (and probably will) but this sounds like it won't actually work very well in practice.

    1. Re:Probably won't work very well by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      You're pretty much right.

      Sure, I'm on Amphetamine because my genetics caused a smaller, weaker prefrontal cortex and thus a lower amount of mental force coming out of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, diminishing my ability to control my brain's automatic impulses; but I've spent my life learning things, and learning to control parts of that. It's never going to be a drug-free solution because that just doesn't work; on the other hand, I'm able to control major impulses, and I've got an interest in finances, risk management, and other procedural behaviors which maximize efficiency.

      That's just psychological development. Many genetic expressions are a matter of environment. Stress in the environment causes an upregulation and downregulation of gene expression: parts of your brain start pumping out RNA and assembling different neurochemicals. Relaxation techniques and some drugs (notably alcohol, and also foods with certain nutrient profiles) also affect genetic expression, changing brain chemistry or metabolism so you become more-relaxed, more-focused, or fatter, or whatever. It's not just that your brain is structured a certain way or you've eaten too many calories; your body has to decide how to activate its cellular machinery, which can determine what parts of your brain activate the most (even if they're weaker to begin with) or how to process food (do you store fat in fat cells or inside muscle cells? Frequent aerobic metabolism will cause your body to start putting fatty acids directly inside the muscles).

  23. Those traits aren't simple... by Gilgaron · · Score: 2

    Complex traits like intelligence and leadership are influenced by genes but you'd learn more about the candidate by mapping their neural net to see what 'nurture' did to them, which will be more important than the 'nature' stuff. The 'robots will take all our jobs' stuff would probably happen before we could pull that off well enough to use it as an employment criterion.

    1. Re:Those traits aren't simple... by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      But much like a typo on a cover letter, genetic traits (or lack thereof) would provide HR with an easy way to cull the pool of candidates.

  24. No worries... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

    No worries, this will never get approved. The public is so against this being legal, that anyone who revokes the law making DNA testing for jobs illegal would be committing political suicide.

    Will not happen any time soon because politicians like keeping their jobs.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:No worries... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A quick DNA tests suggests those politicians will quickly find work in the private sector.

  25. Good luck with that by jandersen · · Score: 2

    There are at least two major weaknesses in this idea:

    1) Looking around in the business landscape, it seems clear that 'we' (especially managers) have little understanding of what makes a good leader. ATM the trend is that you have to be the "Alpha Male", hence leadership courses that include white water rafting and other supposedly, very 'male' passtimes. This may impress the sales teams, but I doubt the engineers are in awe over it.

    2) Even if we knew what personality traits make a good leader, it is far from clear that there is a simple - or even any - connection between your DNA toolkit and your personality. So far, we seem to have some trouble finding a well defined set of genes for things like skin colour or height, and things like personality are vastly more complex than a simple, physical trait. Plus, of course, we have very limited knowledge (in fact, next to none) about how brain structure maps to personality traits.

    So far, we have only just begun to scrape the surface of the genome, the epi-genome and the structure of the nervous system. We are still in the phase where, the more we discover, the more we come to realise how hopelessly inadequate our current understanding still is. It is not impossible that we will understand these areas well, but it will take a while; we will probably be well-established on Mars and beyond long before that day. Going to Mars is, after all, only rocket science.

    1. Re:Good luck with that by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      And that's before we even consider the effects of upbringing on a personality.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  26. Comeing soon Healthcare plans! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Robodoc! Says you have X and the only health plan that will cover you is feudal prison inmate plan. There is an bank only 0.5 miles away.

  27. The return of Nobility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    by the back door.

  28. Well, that's nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Especially in the light of yesterdays brouhaha about basic income. What are the "if you don't work, you don't eat" crowd going to do about this? When people get disqualified from working not because their skills or lack of them, but because of their genes?

    And btw, it doesn't matter if it works or not, the HR people will *believe* it works, and besides there are more applicants than jobs in the first place so anything that narrows it down is a good thing in their books, pseudo-science or not.

    THIS is the reason we have the alphabet soup and the "War on terror" etc, because one day, the shit will hit the proverbial fan, and it's not going to be pretty. It's not about terror, it never was. It's about keeping the masses in check.

    1. Re:Well, that's nice by Coisiche · · Score: 1

      What are the "if you don't work, you don't eat" crowd going to do about this?

      Nothing. I expect that they are all confident they posses superior genes and even in the event of this actually being implemented, they would be unaffected.

    2. Re:Well, that's nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably, what I was getting at however, was that their entire narrative breaks down in this scenario since there is literally no way you can be blamed for being out of a job. They'll have to find another excuse than people being "lazy" or "stupid". I wonder what they will come up with, short of pulling out old Adolf again.

  29. Genes for leadership and intelligence... by GuB-42 · · Score: 2

    Just wait until someone finds particularly desirable genes on the Y chromosome and grab the popcorn...

  30. Not anywhere with sane privacy laws by MullerMn · · Score: 2

    There is more chance of selecting employees through gladiatorial combat trials than there is of using genetic profiling for this purpose anywhere in the EU.

    1. Re:Not anywhere with sane privacy laws by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Can we choose CEOs that way? Of course, the combat must be to the death.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Not anywhere with sane privacy laws by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Of course, the combat must be to the death.

      And in keeping with the tradition of trials for witchcraft, the one who dies gets the job!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  31. By the time this comes to pass, by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

    automation and AI will have eliminated the vast majority of jobs for humans anyway. So let the point-one-percenters start applying these genetic criteria to each other - and watch them eat their own. Pass the popcorn! If we poor plebeians are still able to afford popcorn, that is...

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  32. Genetic testing is NOT done currently in sports by GreyWanderingRogue · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean:

    Job selection on the basis of certain desirable genetic characteristics is already common in the military and sports.

    The only genetic testing I'm aware of in sports were those for proving an athlete is a woman. And I think that one was replaced with a test for testosterone. I'm unaware of anywhere in the military where that happens either (maybe astronauts?). There is certainly selectivity based on abilities and attributes, but those aren't purely genetic tests. About the closest you get to a genetic test is height, but that's also based on nutrition and other environmental factors. If you classify these as genetic tests, then I don't see how this is different from also calling the current job requirements for intelligence genetic tests. Things like GPA or just talking to someone in an interview are as much genetic tests as measuring someone's height or their running speed are.

    1. Re:Genetic testing is NOT done currently in sports by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 1

      I'm not aware of any genetic testing that is used to validate candidates for various jobs in the military. If that is happenning I think we would all be interested in verifiable reference sources.

      --

      Lodragan Draoidh
      The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:Genetic testing is NOT done currently in sports by L'Ange+Oliver · · Score: 1

      There are already tests on the market looking for markers related to muscle fibers (fast twitch versus slow twitch). These are currently used to make personalized training plans. But genetic testing for specific aptitudes... that would be discrimination.

  33. Cue the lawsuits... by fishscene · · Score: 1

    ...for gene/DNA discrimination.

  34. Remember? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember when there were articles here that weren't just click bait?

    1. Re:Remember? by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1

      No, and I've been coming here for a long, long time

  35. Cost not the problem. by sjbe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I seriously doubt this will happen, unless the costs for this type of DNA analysis comes way down. Currently the cost for this type of analysis is around $2,500. I can't imagine any employer willing to spend $25,000 just to interview 10 people.

    For a job at McDonalds no. For a six figure tech job they already spend more than that on the interview process in a lot of places. Hiring the wrong person is a LOT more expensive than a few tests for jobs with serious consequences. I've seen companies spend substantial sums on background checks, length interviews, psychological and proficiency tests, etc. Believe me that DNA tests would get used too if they became a realistic option.

    Of course I'm pretty sure there will be legislation prohibiting this sort of behavior. I think discrimination based on DNA will join the other protected classes (gender, race, etc) except for cases of it being a bona-fide job requirement which will be rare.

    1. Re:Cost not the problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real problem is that there are many things between your DNA and you. I don't care if you have the genes to be 7 foot tall, if you're not fed sufficiently, you'll never live up to that potential. Likewise, your DNA doesn't impact your presence or absence in school, whether you were paying attention, and if you could pass a test on a subject. In short, this is profiling without verification that the profiling works. A person with a natural aptitude for math might not know a mathematical technique, just as a person who lacks that natural aptitude might know the technique and have mastered it by developing more skill in understanding since they didn't "just get it" immediately.

  36. Already done by PPH · · Score: 1

    Indirectly, that is. If you are in the CEO's blood line, you've got a job.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  37. Do they really want more people living on welfare? by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    If DNA testing becomes a requirement for employment, it will also become a requirement for disability. This means, you can be a perfectly functional member of society, but get stuck living on the system because you don't have superior DNA... but why stop there? If the DNA is found at birth, you might as well not even waste your time going beyond high school, or even maybe bothering with elementary school... since you won't need to learn because you won't be able to get a job anyway.

    The future sounds like a real crapshoot.

  38. I think I speak for everyone when I say by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

    FUCK THAT

    --
    Eat the rich.
  39. Star Trek by law1213 · · Score: 2

    This happened on Star Trek, people genetically engineered and born into specific job roles, it didn't end well, ergo I don't think this would end well. What you lose are those people with unique characteristics that might add something unexpected or form an unexpected solution to a problem, granted they may not be particularly suited to a given role, but they may have other qualities that can contribute in larger unforeseen ways.

    1. Re:Star Trek by snookiex · · Score: 1

      All this makes me think that the future of society is predictability. Automated cars, genetic engineering, matching algorithms in dating sites, everything built so things work as they're supposed to. Kinda creepy, if you ask me.

      --
      Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
  40. Re:Do they really want more people living on welfa by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

    Exactly, this stinks of eugenics.

    --
    Eat the rich.
  41. As a geneticist: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So there is no "intelligence" gene or "leadsership" gene, so there's no need to worry about this crap.

  42. Sure, You can be anything, Honey by sTERNKERN · · Score: 1

    You can choose whatever you want from this list.

  43. It's counter-intuitive by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Anyone who accepts getting DNA test to get a job is by definition a follower, a brown-nose, a suck-up, not a leader.

    Employers don't really want too many leader types - they tend to call out bullshit instead of bending over and taking it.

    And if you want grovelers, there are easier ways to screen for them. Just tell them the interview is at 1 PM sharp, and then keep them waiting a few hours. Those that wait it out have demonstrated that they'll put up with being treated like crap, and will probably also say okay to unpaid overtime and weekends, etc. "These are the proles you're looking for."

    Also, the test is clearly arbitrary, invasive, and unproven. Any company that asks for this is a place you don't want to work for (unless you're a submissive prole, of course). It's also illegal - a blood sample will also reveal genetic diseases such as Type 1 diabetes, making it easy to discriminate against "those people" based on a hidden physical handicap. The presence or lack of a Y chromosome can also out transsexuals. The presence of a Y chromosome also carries with it a higher risk of color-blindness, A Y chromosome also generally means a shorter life span, so lower pension costs. XX means the chance of medical costs for pregnancies, miscarriages, abortions, and more unplanned time off to deal with the kids.

    IEven if they use anonymous evaluation in the hiring process, and don't test specifically for XX or XY, the genetic presence of color-blindness unmasks males, making it somewhat easier to choose whichever sex you want to discriminate against.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:It's counter-intuitive by mrbester · · Score: 1

      Females can have colour blindness as well. It's just a lot rarer.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    2. Re:It's counter-intuitive by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Females can have colour blindness as well. It's just a lot rarer.

      Of course, which is why I said that males have a higher risk, not that it was limited to males. The higher risk means that if someone is color-blind, they're more likely to be male, so eliminate all color-blind people and you're disproportionately eliminating males. Or limit yourself to color-blind people, and you'll have a preponderance of males. Either way, it is an indirect method of discriminating by sex.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  44. Gartner no longer relevant, report finds. by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Co-incidence of events and their reporting creates a strong association leading to the phenomenon whereby, at the sweet-spot of association strength, the perp may attempt to reverse the roles and create the events merely by purporting to'report' them.

  45. Advances? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If businesses want to advance, maybe they should stop using words like "rock star" and "freak" in their job postings.

  46. Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by sycodon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...but the very idea of testing genetics in order to determine your qualifications is Offensive in the worst way and an Affront to humanity.

    The essence of being human is the ability to overcome the challenges placed before you. A Dyslexic person becoming a famous author, a victim of ALS persevering and becoming an award winning winning Physicist (and possible Nobel Prize winner), a blind and deaf person learning to speak and write, etc.

    I'm not going to spend time looking it up, but I expect that you will find many great people in history who have overcome inherent disabilities of one kind or another to become Leaders in public service, technology, the military, etc, who, under this DNA testing philosophy, would have been disqualified from the start.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re: Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not anymore. These anomalies must be squashed for corporate profits and power grabs.

    2. Re:Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Let me add to your list of 'challenges': Hydrocephaly (water on the brain) is a very rare, very devastating disorder that can be fatal. Survivors of it can have 90% or more of their brain matter utterly destroyed by it. You'd think these rare survivors would be drooling idiots, barely alive, let alone capable of living anything like normal lives. But I've heard that at least some of them go on to not only have normal lives, but brilliant lives. With only 10% or less of a normal, functioning brain.

      You're on the right track in what you're thinking.

    3. Re:Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by lgw · · Score: 3, Funny

      This would be terrifying, but it's a prediction by Gartner, so somehow I'm not worried.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      Yup. No need to test Gartner's DNA to know they are unfit for purpose.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:Not to Sound Iike a Snowflake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your right of course. That's where politicians and slashdot posters come from.

      They never have a sound reason for anything, but they love herding the sheep.

      Give me a break.

    6. Re:Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not only that. The problem with most theories of eugenics is that they draw from experience with agricultural breeding of domesticated species. Humans are not domesticated; we're a wild species with massive genetic diversity compared to, say, purebred Arabian horses.

      This means that with us sexual reproduction still does what it is supposed to do: generate genetic diversity in offspring. Look at large families. You get some who are tall and some who are short; some who have Grandpa Joe's nose and others that have Grandpa John's jaw, others who get both or neither. Even with litter of pedigreed puppies you'll get one total loser and if you're lucky one champion; and pedigreed dog litters are much more alike than any set of human siblings. And that's just physical traits; in terms of interests, talents, and success there is massive variability among siblings, although there is some correlation, in part due to economic circumstances, upbringing and education.

      Nature works this way because variability is good for the species, and that variability comes from combinations of genes being shuffled. Add to that the massive behavioral plasticity of our gigantic brains, and the idea that you can sample some of, say, Steve Jobs DNA for successful CEO markers is ludicrous. If you'd raised Jobs in a different family and sent him to a different set of schools, and didn't get him luck out by ending up close friends with Woz, then while he may well have been quite successful in some other way, he wouldn't have been the Steve Jobs we knew.

      Of course, willingness to go along with the DNA test is a good test for one phenotypical trait: the willingness to put up with pseudo-scientific baloney.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    7. Re:Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want to post something this hurtful but I fear you need someone to slap you and make you think for just one second.

      The essence of being human is the ability to overcome the challenges placed before you.

      Don't worry, testing positive for Trisomy 21 is not going to prevent you from becoming a crap writer of Hollywood drek.

      Good god, that post could have come straight out of any of the worst that Hollywood has to offer.
      You do understand that by your definition there are almost no real humans? Most of the time either the successful will lack the flaw to overcome or the flawed will fail to triumph over it.

      Planning for the human equivalent of lottery winners is not the way to plan anything. When you want to run a business you play the smart odds, you do not base reality on Hollywood crap fests.
      Hiring a pedophile to run your Kindercare is bad odds. Even though he might overcome his deviant drives and invent a new world famous way to help children succeed.
      Hiring a blind airline pilot is bad odds, even though he may develop the ability to fly the plane after all the instruments go out leaving normal pilots helpless.
      Hiring a porn star who has micro penis as your new male contract star is bad odds, even though he may teach the men of the world new ways to pleasure women and end all strife between the genders.

      Our species built in sense of fairness makes people want to believe that people who got dicked by the universe's RNG are actually blessed and better off for it but it isn't true and it sucks. Some people just got the shitty end of the stick, just like others won the lottery by being born into billionaire families. It is not fair but it is reality.

      In the real world you play the smart odds if you are smart. That being said, there are an alarming number of Americans who believe "The Rapture" or "Winning the Lottery" is their retirement plan and that it is a good and reliable plan that will allow them to retire early.

    8. Re: Not to Sound iIke a Snowflake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand this mentality from business people. It is a form of stupidity, just like most advertising. Businesses are blinded by immediate profit and fail to see their employees as long-term investments. Just like we use paper plates and dispose of them, they use emplyees and dispose of them. It is a culture of convenience and laziness. We need to go back to the days where people were judged by the quality of their work, not by superficial bullshit or perceived disabilities. If a retarded person can do my job better than me, than they derserve my job.

  47. Gattaca by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    Perhaps one of the most accurate visions of the future ever put onto the big screen.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  48. Mis-Information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The genetic basis of "intelligence" (IQ) has long been studied. We know that there are 100's of genes "responsible". Once they've done the N! experiments necessary (where N is >100 ) and replicated them in the dozens, hundreds, or thousands of different contexts required for generalizations, they'll definitely be in a position to (more or less) accurately predict POTENTIAL IQ from DNA. I won't hold my breath. They've been using personality testing for decades to fit candidates to jobs, and there is no evidence that the tests are better than chance. Which means DNA testing is virtually certainly not going to be useful to select employees for intelligence, but will, if implemented, be used to screen out people based on arbitrary and discriminatory factors.

    1. Re:Mis-Information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there may be certain environmental factors associated with a job (high stress, monotony, noise, chemical exposure, radiation,...) to which certain genes are known to predispose a person to harm. It makes sense to keep the susceptible out of jobs that will likely harm them.

    2. Re:Mis-Information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It makes sense to keep the susceptible out of jobs that will likely harm them."

      Wow. You're expecting things to work out in a way that makes sense? Do you want to make a bet that exactly those who should be kept out of such jobs are the ones who will end up with them instead?

      People with limitations who makes them vulnerable to certain things, have probably other limitations as well, which puts them in a disadvantageous situation to begin with. Which naturally in turn makes them pretty much the only candidates for the jobs they are most unfit for, because nobody else wants them either! Welcome to reality where everyone is trying to cut as big a piece of the cake they can get away with, and fuck their fellow man. Especially that disabled guy down the corridor, fuck him twice.

  49. not science based by ecorona · · Score: 1

    We can't even use genetics to predict when someone will get type 2 diabetes, much less predict "leadership" aptitude. So much of this stuff is environmental and even the part that is genetic can be complex and impossible to predict. We know that type 2 diabetes has a strong environmental component, but even the genetic component isn't understood well. Most genes linked to diabetes are unknown, but we know they exist due to inheritance patterns. How in the ever loving hell would we apply genetics to something as complex and environmental as leadership when even type 2 diabetes isn't there yet? I'd like to volunteer my services to screen out junk posts on slashdot that have anything to do with genetics. This is rubbish.

  50. Unlikely to be Useful by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    I seriously doubt this will happen, unless the costs for this type of DNA analysis comes way down.

    I seriously doubt it will happen at successful companies even if the costs go way down and it becomes legal. Nature is only a part of what determines your character: nurture plays a large role as well. That combined with the fact that I am not sure we all agree on what characteristics make a good leader leads me to have very severe doubts about whether this is even vaguely useful.

  51. Divergent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I recently watched the Divergent trilogy of films based on the books. In a dystopian future, society is segmented into various factions, and each faction serves a different purpose. Although one is born into a certain faction, each person undergoes a test to identify their best fit into society.

    This Slashdot topic made me think of the similarities. One is selected (or rejected) based on their innate qualities, nay, their very genetic makeup. This would open up a whole new realm of discrimination.

  52. Do they really want this? by Squeak · · Score: 1

    Given the personality correlations between success business leaders and psychopaths, then, if there is any genetic basis for these traits, which does not seem totally unlikely, what is the likely outcome of recruiting more psychopaths than there are leadership positions to fill?

    --
    This sig is a figment of your imagination.
  53. It'll happen, if it isn't happening already by DogDude · · Score: 1

    People already submit to letting their employers test their blood and pee for whatever substances the employer chooses. They also let their employers check their credit. Most people don't give a shit about any sort of privacy. They just want what they want, and they want it NOW. Heck, I'm surprised that DNA testing of employees isn't happening already.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  54. Exactly this! by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The brash open eugenics message should be extremely disturbing. Your option, boycott any company that adopts a practice like this. Petition for laws to prevent abuse of your basic human right to privacy. "Too late" is not an excuse to give up privacy, "Too late" is an excuse for the worst type of tyranny.

    Lets not forget the rash of claims last year that people would be labelled by their tweets and posts and categorized by the same. Remember that these same people (openly pushing eugenics) try to claim that others are racist, homophobic, etc...

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  55. Racism by frankenheinz · · Score: 1

    is the word for this. Duh.

    --
    The law is not an ass. No really.
  56. GATTACA! GATTACA! GATTACA! GATTACA! by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

    On the subject of 'cautionary tales', I suggest everyone re-watch that movie, because it's 100% relevant.
    This sort of nonsense should remain outlawed. Genetic predisposition is not the be-all-end-all of human potential; we learn. Education, skills, and experience should be determining factors.

    1. Re:GATTACA! GATTACA! GATTACA! GATTACA! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Loved the movie, but only in a fictional medium should a 99.9999% abortion actually make it to become something. If hollywood can do it, so can slashdot I suppose. captcha: coexist

    2. Re:GATTACA! GATTACA! GATTACA! GATTACA! by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      People should be allowed to choose to try, not be excluded from trying at all because someone says "This test shows you shouldn't be allowed to do this". To quote another movie with Keanu Reeves in it, it's all about choice, and we shouldn't allow our own DNA to become "Just another system of control". If businesses are allowed to DNA test applicants, and based on an arbitrary criteria exclude applicants, then it's also not a great leap for schools to do the same. How would you like it if your kid decides he's really interested in engineering, and shows some aptitude for it, but universities won't accept him into their engineering program because the DNA test comes back as 'insufficient aptitude'? How would you feel if it was you?

      I can be quoted as saying that the vast majority of people don't have any idea what their 'purpose' in life is, and very often are ill-equipped to find their 'purpose' themselves -- but that doesn't mean they should have their ability to choose their purpose taken away from them, either.

      In my theoretical future scenario, how much farther would you have to go before we're living in a full-blown GATTACA world, where you can't even go out on a date with someone unless your DNA is 'compatible'? Can you imagine how bad that would be in the long run for the genetic diversity of the human race as a whole?

      Dangerous waters. Slippery slopes.

  57. Futurama by ITRambo · · Score: 1

    Congratulations! You are now a delivery boy.

  58. Again? by Drgan · · Score: 1

    So, we bring up this topic about the potential benefits of using Genetic testing to better our lives only to be reminded of the pitfalls that also come with it. As The Grim Reaper pointed out, Gattaca dealt with this topic rather extensively. However, I'm not sure that this will even be a choice to not put ourselves forward for this sort of testing.

    Genetic testing is being fairly "hip" these days with companies like 23 and Me offering their services. Even Ancestry.com will offer the use for help with your genealogy tree. There are major dangers with freely giving over DNA to these companies though. They build up genetic databases and under current US law, our DNA does not technically belong to the individual but to the research team that "borrowed" it for "research" purposes.

    We can get scared about it or we can work to come up with intelligent legislation to afford some protections to ourselves in our respective countries.

    On the plus side, we can get away with Eugenics under some-what less than ethical apology.

  59. This is great news by HBI · · Score: 1

    Everything Gartner says is wrong...going back to the 1990s. Therefore, Gattaca will never happen.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  60. May be on its way by Sumus+Semper+Una · · Score: 1

    I think of "DNA testing for jobs may be on its way" in much the same way that I think of the knowledge that a world-ending meteor may be on its way. It could be devastating if it happens, but it's unlikely and can be averted via human intervention.

  61. The smart play by HBI · · Score: 1

    Pay for Gartner's advice and then do the exact opposite thing. They are a reverse oracle.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  62. Loophole in GINA? by mark-t · · Score: 2

    The Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act prohibits employers from refusing to hire someone because of their genetics... but what if the reason to refusing to hire someone in particular is because they didn't submit their genetic information at all? How can they be said to refuse to hire someone based on their genetics if they don't have the genetic information in the first place?

    Further, it seems that the refusal to hire someone who did submit such information would not necessarily be because of *their* genetics but because the employer has since filled the position they were seeking with someone else who *did* have the genetic qualifications they were seeking. In this case, the employer may be choosing to *hire*, not refusing to hire, somebody based on their genetics, but this does not appear to be prohibited by GINA.

    I don't know if this has already been tried and shot down in court, or if this kind of reasoning would actually work. While it's entirely unethical in terms of the spirit of the law, it seems like it still ought to be technically legal.

    1. Re:Loophole in GINA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not any more a loophole in GINA than in any other discriminatory hiring practice. The trick is proving you're a better candidate for the job and deserved to get it, and that you didn't because you were discriminated against due to sex/race/religion/genes.
      No company is allowed to use genetic information in their hiring practices, even if this is volunteered information. Saying 'hire me i'm a Christian' is an obvious equivalent here, and quite legal, but the volunteered fact should never be allowed to outweigh actual job performance capabilities.

    2. Re:Loophole in GINA? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      No company is allowed to use genetic information in their hiring practices

      While I agree that is almost certainly the intent... I actually looked at the exact wording of the act before I posted above, and it does not actually say that. All that it says is that the employer must not refuse to hire, promote, or determine job placement for someone based on their genetic information. If you, as an employer, already have a specific job available before you start collecting resumes for it, and you are looking for someone with particular genetic criteria to fill it, then the hiree's genetic information is not determining their job placement because the specific job was decided upon even before you saw their genetic information, and they are not being *refused* hiring or promotion, so the prohibitions in GINA would appear to not be applicable. The only people that are being refused are not being turned away because you found anything undesirable about *THEIR* genetic information, but because you found something more desireable in the HIREE's genetic information. While this would almost certainly create the initial appearance of being illegally discriminatory, by a certain highly literal interpretation of how the act is worded, it does not actually seem to be.

  63. Idiots by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

    The idiots don't understand the difference between group tendencies and individual prediction. Picking people for jobs based on genes is stupid because you get a much better (although for many things still not very good) indication by giving an actual performance test.

    And no dcblogs, nobody chooses basketball players by their genes. They're selected by their *height* and their ability to play basketball.

  64. Re: Genetic testing is NOT done currently in sport by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It didn't say "genetic testing" it said "genetic characteristics"

    If you look at someone like me, a 115 lb 6'0 computer geek, I'd be instantly ruled out for a sports player position.
        The most weight I've ever put on in my life was 140 lb, and that was mostly fat and the only protenen was from shake type drinks. Very little went to muscle as I only had a minimal exercise regiment around it.

    Those are not the genetic characteristics sought out for say a quarterback or pitcher or most any player in such a game.

    I'm not offended or upset at that fact. Computer work was always my interest and calling and I'm quite happy with what I have.

    But the fact remains, those are my genetic characteristics, and they are so obvious you can test them with nothing more than human eyes, which is pretty much exactly what is done.

    On a more detailed level, do recruiters not watch players in actual games to determine which have the best genetics and skills to utilize them before picking them out?

    I'm sure different people give more weight to skill or potential or physical (genetic) traits than others, but I'd assume they are always involved.

    DNA testing just allows for much more detailed examination than looking at a person does alone.

  65. Re:Exactly this! Its about revival of Eugenics by DarkOx · · Score: 1, Troll

    It is disturbing and if you look at the radical pro-abortion agenda being advanced by the left this year. Attacking the Hyde Amendment, trying to ensure elective procedures (murders) are covered by health insurance, the "share your abortion story" push by Richards, the "My sister is a Happy Ghost" children's book etc, its all little bits of nasty final solution. Next look where they put up the free/low cost abortion "clinics" and than look at what groups are having abortions by the numbers, the game is clear.

    Its pretty clear to me the "progressives" in this country are working to revive the early twentieth century eugenics movement. Much of their own electorate is being used as ignorant rubes with lots of fancy language about "rights," "equality," and "liberty" while the elites laugh knowing they are going to pressure these same people into murdering their own children. Making it so they can't get jobs because they don't have the right markers for intellect etc despite their own actual achievements, work ethic, etc is just a way to turn up the heat. "See you don't even have a future yourself, continuing your genetic line would just be curl, you don't want to be parent" I can almost hear it now. If you are unemployed you don't have money to participate in the political system to try and stop them. They are going after the tax exempt status of religious institutions that don't play nice, again take away the money, it started way back with the Johnson amendment and now that people are over that they are turning up the heat a little more.

    This is about slowly boiling Pepe. Its about accomplishing what they could not get done in the 1920s and 30s because honest decent Americans were still organized and could oppose these people. Its because Hitler fouled up and took things to a place so ugly anyone with a little good in them could not ignore. The curl joke is the marketing machine paints the American left as the party of down trodden when really its a viscous machine designed to consume their very lives.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  66. Gattaca by TJHook3r · · Score: 1

    I got this sweet job, the only downside is that I have to use my friend's DNA to pass the constant testing. And I have to make sure not to leave any skin or hair samples at work.

  67. Programming tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I have been required to take "programming tests" that were pretty much intelligence tests.

    And as a manager yourself, you know that getting around laws is easy. Don't want to hire that 40 something? He just doesn't have the skills.

  68. BS. Hogwash. Poppycock. Etc... by DarthVain · · Score: 2

    DNA has about as much to do with "intelligence" as purported IQ tests, which is to say very little other than in a very general sense. The same could be said for "leadership" and various other ridiculous tests more appropriate for nothing more than wasting time on FB.

    There is no "intelligence" gene, nor is there one for "leadership", that is absolutely ridiculous. I mean in a very broad sense you could use DNA to look for *possible* indicators of certain genetic disorders that may have an impact on either trait. However those disorders would also be so absolutely obvious that you could determine that by simple written comprehension or even say talking to someone for say 5 minutes.

    So all that BS aside, there are some ways in which DNA could effect your employment opportunities in a very real and sinister way. Namely if your employer pays for your benefits and insurance. A big chunk of either are medical expenses. They could potentially use DNA testing to eliminate you from competition for jobs on the simply liability of you and or your offspring might be more expensive medically (due to having indicators of possibility being susceptible to certain genetic maladies) requiring the employer to have more robust benefit or insurance packages.

    Anyway the idea of using DNA like a resume is absurd. A better indicator is environment, the biggest of which likely socioeconomic background (i.e. better opportunities, education, health, etc). That isn't to say that there isn't potential abuse for DNA information by employers.

  69. Re:Exactly this! Its about revival of Eugenics by DarkOx · · Score: 2

    I imaging the guards at the Nazi death camps were given some version of its not murder they are not people too.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  70. Re:Exactly this! Its about revival of Eugenics by s.petry · · Score: 1

    It is very interesting to go down this path in thought, but it's overloading to a novice. It has been painted as hip and trendy to have abortions, and the people that believe that will flat out deny that much of a leap in cognitive dissonance. People aware can definitely investigate this, there are many books written on the subject. Sadly they are not horror books, but laying out evil of real people walking around in society.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  71. Underworld Plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are looking for Lycans!

  72. Re:Exactly this! Its about revival of Eugenics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your parents believed the same thing....

  73. Current system by s1d3track3D · · Score: 1

    well maybe if it's applied to everyone regardless of background than possibly it's better than our current system which is called ivy league education...

    1. Re:Current system by s1d3track3D · · Score: 1

      of course, it also reminds me of the first episode of futurama, "hold still, I just need to implant your career chip of delivery boy"...

  74. Re:Do they really want more people living on welfa by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    Other way around. "Hey, you have normal DNA, there is no reason why you should not be successful. No welfare for you!"

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  75. Where is the DNA is that information? by neoRUR · · Score: 1

    Can someone tell me where in the DNA sequence that information is stored? And how did they prove that it really is a result of those genes? Where are the published papers for this?

  76. Re:Do they really want more people living on welfa by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

    Some people would argue that there are reasons other than employment to be educated. When pursuing my master's degree in mathematics, I took a music class for my personal enjoyment. Did I waste my time because the music class had nothing to do with any job I applied for?

    --
    Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
  77. OMG, GATTACA and Hitler! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on people. You already know eugenics is evil because Hitler thought it was a good idea!
    Just like meth is evil because Hitler liked it!
    Like how vegetarian diets are evil because Hitler liked them!
    Just like animals are evil because Hitler liked them!
    and finally water colors, those are crazy evil because Hitler liked them most of his life!

    In a severely overpopulated world, eugenics can be extremely useful if for nothing other than giving people a reason they can't just go make a pile of babies.

    Start with people who commit crimes against other people or their property.
    "Oh noes you can't do that, as we do not know whether criminal tendencies are nature or nurture!!!!"
    "Which of those do they get from their parents?"
    ".. fuck you! You are Hitler"

  78. So what's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DNA testing to see if you qualify for welfare? Mr Jones, I see you have good job skills inherent in your DNA, claim rejected.

    DNA testing to see if you have criminal tendencies? Mr Smith, a scan of your DNA shows a predisposition to dishonesty, report to prison immediately.

    DNA testing to see if you qualify for civil service? I'm sorry, but your DNA says you are way too smart to be a politician.

  79. Re:Exactly this! Its about revival of Eugenics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF is a curl? Oh you mean cruel? How did I know a conspiracy riddled rant like this would have bad grammar? You're uneducated and are apparently blissful in your ignorance. Keep being a hater. One day you'll need our liberal help and we won't be there for you.

  80. Re:Exactly this! Its about revival of Eugenics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Links to these "imagings" or it didn't happen. Keep hatin', sunshine!

  81. Re:Do they really want more people living on welfa by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    I'd say yes, but I'd presume that you could have learned the same thing for free via the internet.

  82. Re:Do they really want more people living on welfa by wardrich86 · · Score: 1

    I just realized you said time, not money. hurrrr sorry

  83. Re:Exactly this! Its about revival of Eugenics by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    You know "curl" vs "cruel" would be spelling not grammar. Which one of us is ignorant now?

    Next lets consider that you understood exactly what I meant as demonstrated by the fact that you proposed an alternative spelling we both recognize. English has a descriptive not a prescriptive dictionary. There is no body that is empowered to decided what is correct English there is only conventional and common usage. One can argue any message that is understood as the author intended without difficulty on the part of the recipient is in fact correct English as far as there can be such a thing as correct English, again there being no authority.

    Don't lecture me about ignorance when you apparently don't even know or understand basic facts about the language your attempting to communicate in and the common definitions of words like spelling and grammar. I'll concede I understood your message so it was in that sense correctly encoded, if unconventional.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  84. We condemned Nazis and others for this by BubbaJonBoy · · Score: 1

    Eugenics by another name - but it's ok if we tie it to hiring a high-performance stud for business purposes.
    Higher pay and prestige lead to better and more mating opportunities.
    Who knew business could help mankind to the next level?

  85. MASSIVE Loophole always existed by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    In the USA they can hire or fire for ANY reason. They just can't state all the reasons because some are illegal.

    If you did try to plug this hole it would fix the fact they can quietly do whatever they want... then you have the workforce you could point to like they do with racial and gender discrimination and attempt to counter them circumventing the law which makes it more difficult for HR to get past those laws. Naturally, the lawyer politicians leave most of the enforcement up to civil courts to add to our sue crazy society.

    Just how are we going to say an employer discriminates based on DNA?? Even in the existing mess we have today, you have to sue and collect gender or race statistics of all employees as part of discovery and that information is public. How does a legal case discover the private DNA info of all the employees? Does the employer then have to collect DNA just so they can fend off future lawsuits??

    The only solution is a complete revamp of the HR process which requires OUTSOURCING of this huge aspect of HR. Some nations involve the government heavily in the process and it works pretty well and solves many issues while introducing some others. This would likely go beyond what those governments already do today. Many issues involved in that one... sure you could go to NGOs but those lack even a fraction of public input that government has -- even when it's moderately corrupt it's better than most NGOs. Then you have competing HR services which add more problems than they likely solve. At least in the mess we have today it's less dangerous... for now... remember, the USA just recently solved the HUUUGE problem with preexisting conditions in health insurance (and not without creating new issues.)

  86. The future diary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Today is the year 2038, October 24.

    I got a call from "baby center" that they successfully breed my baby boy.
    They also give me a DNA scan result, and I found out he will become a plumber when he grow up.

    This DNA scan is BS. It seems I waste my money on "early education". What's the point of "future investment" if his future is already locked by his DNA?