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Trump Says He's Going To 'Get Apple To Build a Big Plant In the United States' (arstechnica.com)
In a Tuesday interview with The New York Times, President-elect Donald Trump said that he would incentivize Apple to "build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States." Ars Technica reports: Trump indicated to columnist Thomas Friedman that he is going to double-down on bringing factory jobs back to America, especially in the Rust Belt from Michigan to Pennsylvania.
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
TRUMP: It's a big thing, we'll make the robots, too. Right now we don't make the robots. We don't make anything. But we're going to. I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and we're going to do that. We're going to have more factories. We can't lose 70,000 factories. Just can't do it. We're going to start making things.
Trump continued, saying that he had received a call from Apple CEO Tim Cook. As the president-elect recounted: "...and I said, 'Tim, you know, one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you're making your product right here.' He said, 'I understand that.' I said: 'I think we'll create the incentives for you, and I think you're going to do it. We're going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you'll be happy about.' But we're going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you're liberal or conservative, I mean, I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It's gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can't, they can't even start up, they can't expand, they're choking." A report from Nikkei last week said that Apple is exploring the idea of making iPhones in the United States, but the company has realized that it will cost more than double to make the shiny new gadgets at home.
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
TRUMP: It's a big thing, we'll make the robots, too. Right now we don't make the robots. We don't make anything. But we're going to. I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and we're going to do that. We're going to have more factories. We can't lose 70,000 factories. Just can't do it. We're going to start making things.
Trump continued, saying that he had received a call from Apple CEO Tim Cook. As the president-elect recounted: "...and I said, 'Tim, you know, one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you're making your product right here.' He said, 'I understand that.' I said: 'I think we'll create the incentives for you, and I think you're going to do it. We're going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you'll be happy about.' But we're going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you're liberal or conservative, I mean, I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It's gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can't, they can't even start up, they can't expand, they're choking." A report from Nikkei last week said that Apple is exploring the idea of making iPhones in the United States, but the company has realized that it will cost more than double to make the shiny new gadgets at home.
If he gets his way: Enjoy your next iPhone costing $3000.
The only regulations that would bring those plants to the US would be permitting slave labour. they already avoid taxes.
Not really, he's not so completely fucking mental he thinks he can create legislation for a foreign government. Unlike some mentals!
I for one am glad that robots will soon be big. I have always hoped to live in an age where robots are a thing. Making them big is just the icing on the mechanical cake.
Believe nothing -- Buddha
Somebody seems to overestimate his powers, mental and constitutional.
So Trump would prefer using Americans as slave labor over using Asians and taking the tax burden off the poor billionaires. Thanks!
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
"Get Apple to build a big plant in the United States"
So, an Apple tree?
Summation 2
No big deal. From what we've seen so far, tomorrow he'll Tweet about how wonderful it is that Apple is making their phones in Asia instead of the US.
Too bad Steve Jobs isn't still around to take that phone call. The reality distortion fields would have caused a rip in space-time.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
Seriously...what the hell is this guy smoking and why isn't he sharing?
What makes you so sure? He said he's going to move the capital of Israel to Jerusalem. No regardless of how you feel about whether that's a good thing or not, the real question is: How would he do that? Does he have the authority? Would he just declare it to be so and the rest of the world would go along? (Note: the name "Donald" means "ruler of the world", and this "donald" is the first I've ever heard referred to as "The Donald".)
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Good, then charge more than double. Maybe you could trim down you're ridiculous profit a little too while you're at it.
So instead of having 95% of profit, they will have 90% if they don't increase the price. They can survive.
And I can't wait to see Apple announce the new iPhone US as the top level innovation.
Still at a loss...
Donald Trump isn't in office yet and the linked bill passed congress a week ago.
He said he's going to move the capital of Israel to Jerusalem.
Trump is pushing to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. A position that previous presidents have avoided since the founding of modern Israel. Most countries have their embassies in Tel Aviv.
How would he do that? Does he have the authority?
Executive order. But I'm sure Congress will want to put in their pound of flesh for the congressional record.
Would he just declare it to be so and the rest of the world would go along?
Nope.
How much manual labor is needed for an iPhone anyway?
Also it feels like the price gap between apple and samsung is decreasing, so apple could use some price boost to make the devices more desirable if only for being pricey, due to lack of other selling points.
Decrease in quality also won't matter much, after a year or two they're supposed to be replaced anyway. Dries up the used phone marked, and makes the new ones even more desirable justifying even higher prices.
1. Regulations are not created by some evil Liberul cabal in Berkeley that sits around smoking weed and drinking espressos saying, "How can we make business more difficult. Regulations arise because there is at least a few assholes who think, "If it's not illegal, then it's OK!" - even if it causes the deaths of people. So these regulations didn't come out of thin air - somewhere, they are (or were) protecting someone.
2. Corporate taxes are comparatively excessive in the US - even compared to evil Socialist European tax systems. BUT, any tax cuts means revenues will have to be made up somewhere else and let's give up on the fantasy that lowering taxes boosts the economy enough to wash out the tax cuts.
3. The stock markets are hoping that the Republican controlled government does what Republicans do best: cut taxes, spend like a motherfucker, and borrow the short falls. "Bringing manufacturing jobs back" looks like a cover for doing just that.
4. And when deficits go further through the roof, the Republicans will just blame Obama.
5. I bet Trump's imagined wealth that this will in fact happen.
It's not just cheap labor, but being close to the supply chain in China also makes manufacturing cheaper.... for Foxcon.
Robots are getting cheap enough that Foxcon is replacing cheap Chinese workers with them. So if they set up a factory in the US, they're not going to fill them with "high-priced" American labor, they'll be full of Chinese manufactured robots.
Will these incentives specifically state rust belt states? Why exactly would they put these plants there rather than New England or the West Coast? Labor costs? Most of the parts are coming in from Korea, Taiwan, and Japan so wouldn't a West Coast shipping port be better? China only does the assembly.
While Trump is dreaming up stuff to do, he should try and get all those electronic parts manufactures back here in the US.
He is riding a wave of anti-globalization sentiment, he has both houses of congress, Chinese factory wages have risen steadily, and most of you laughing now were probably laughing in the same way on November 7.
For crying out loud, use your imagination. This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
It's yet another Trump hyperbolic promise with no grounds on reality. Has anyone noticed he never elaborates on the how? It is easy to promise the moon and it is, evidently, also easy for most of the population to buy it at face value alone.
Hell, i can do it as well: I'll talk with Tim Cook myself. And we'll have great, huge, American iPhone factories, with American robots - cause wee don't make anything, but we're going to. Our robots will be tremendous and we'll have 200,000 new factories putting incredibly advanced new iPhones every year. American iPhones to make America Great Again(tm)!
I'm watching this big flying saucer taking place and wondering if it will become abandoned. I heard Apple does more of its business outside the US, all manufacturing and much of the engineering was offshored. They also have tens of billions in cash reserves so if under too much pressure, it seems they could easily abandoned the US altogether (will that make Microsoft the ***only*** source for typical computer OS?). It seems Trump divert trade and interactions with China (and do more with Russia?). Considering California (blue) is an outlier from the rest of country (red), "shooting down the flying saucer" may be a goal for new administration (yes, I'm imagining stuff). However, Apple hasn't made a lot of friends since (along with Google and others) have driven up housing costs in Silicon Valley.
mfwright@batnet.com
Its easier to make the rest of the world pay US level wages so outsourcing provides no gain.
Classic Trumpism. What are these mythical regulations? Name something? give an example? Instead when a reporter wastes their time going over regulations they find the industry pretty on par and then Trump backpedals saying we over exaggerated what he meant and what he said was just a joke. Ugh we have to do FOUR YEARS of this nonsense? He can just say what he wants and no one's going to stop him?
Just another second banana
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
*Whoosh*
I feel like for the next 4 years America will be used as kind of a learning tool for Trump (a, "Trump University", if you will) to learn very basic economic and government principles. . . poorly. And all it will cost is the well being of an entire nation. . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
For crying out loud, use your imagination. This is one of the most concrete, attainable, and consistent things he's said.
the bar is REALLY FUCKING LOW here
A service based economy cannot survive in the long run. You must create/produce something of value. A service economy will run out of money eventually. Every county must produce for themselves as well as import/export. Finding a healthy balance is difficult.
The U.S. must also become more competitive on corporate taxes. We need to be smart about allowing both personal and corporate money to flow into the country with minimal tax because that money was already taxed where it was "earned". That allows more investment and spending in the US.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Look, perhaps many of you don't understand how modern factories work, you're stuck on the old concepts of assembly lines with a few robots and a lot of humans.
A modern factory, for the most part, has robot trucks and forklifts and many robots doing work.
And very very few humans.
They operate 24/7/365 in the dark, unheated and uncooled.
Not a lot of jobs there.
They are even BUILT by robots for the most part.
That's what an Apple factory in the US would be. A 2018 plant with very few jobs. Unless you're a robot.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Incentivize? I don't recognize that as a word except when I'm playing buzzword bingo during a meeting.
Maybe he "... would provide incentives for Apple to build plants..." ?
#justsayin'
What specific regulations are preventing Apple manufacturing in the USA ? What specifically will be their reduction in tax bill ? Because lacking specifics I'm imagining the regulations that prevent forced labor camps and toxic wastelands, and a tax change that goes from Apple pays something to we all pay apple.
Nullius in verba
...And companies can't, they can't even start up, ...
Hmm. All those startups in Sili Valley, RTP, Boston, and etc., must be figments of our liberal imaginations then.
That Trump is full of shit then there is no hope for you.
Trump was elected because he was a White male after the US went batshit crazy because a Black president didn't destroy the nation and all those Brown immigrants arent stuck in ghettos but actually opening up businesses, buying homes, etc. Now the Nazis are marching and the goofy rich con job is trying to fix his image before the US rulers and mobsters decide he needs to take a ride like JFK.
Fuck shit no wonder why half the world thinks US people are dumb as hell. You prove it constantly.
Same meth the Nazis that voted for him are. Isn't it hilarious the Nazi candidate is such a dumb shit? Wouldn't be able to stop laughing if it wasn't for the fact that dumb shit has control of the largest military in the world.
I'm glad he disposed of Hillary. But now that that done, I've done some calculations. It turns out it would be cheaper to send Trump to China than it would be to bring Apple here. That's the answer.
(||) Nehmo (||)
You save transport costs if you make things in the US that are sold in the US. There is a huge amount of supply chain infrastructure necessary to start making iPhones and iPads in the US though. The price will have to go up or they will have to be subsidized, neither seems very appealing.
And Trump is right, the US should make robots.
Tim Cook already said he would build factories here if the corporate tax laws were changed, which is Trump is going to get done with republican congress. Going OMG Trump is getting a little old. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
What are the assumptions that went into Apple's 2X cost conclusion? Did they assume the same number of workers? The answer to that is that the US factories would be more automated. The big thing that makes sense in terms of adding cost is that supply line--we've outsourced so much of that, it we'd have a devil of a time getting it up and running.
Really though, each "smart" phone represents the export of a lot of things such as environmental degredation and labor exploitation. If it really only costs twice as much to make them here, that's lower than I thought.
Apple could hire people that aren't slaves, and they could comply with environmental regs, assuming that Trump doesn't trash them all. If you Apple weenies won't pay 2X for something that's "green and fair trade", then you should just turn in your progressive cards, or whatever it is you like to call yourselves these days.
He probably thinks one wall of the factory could be part of the wall Mexico is going to pay for, thus Apple only needs to build 3 walls (paid for by China) and well all know China build great big beautiful walls.
By the time the factory to build the robots is built, Trump will be impeached.
When Trump means he will negotiate new trade deals, he probably means that each country will have to build a Trump Tower (at their expense) and pay him royalties for the next 20 years to use his name on the buildings.
Trump is a brilliant improviser. One way to redirect criticism is to accept the criticism, and spin it as though it agreed with you. I actually took a course on collaboration in a corporate environment that talks about this. Their idea was not to use it to spin things though, but to keep people open to ideas. Instead of saying "no, you are wrong because" you say "yes, and..." elaborate on how you will address the problem. Trump takes this to the next level.
Trump: "I'm going to build a wall"
The world: "That's ridiculous, that will cost 5 billions of dollars!"
Trump: "My wall idea is soo ridiculous, it will cost 10 billion dollars!"
The world: "We can't afford that."
Trump: "So I'll have somebody else pay for it!"
Trump: "I'm going to build iPhones in America."
The world: "That will cost too much."
Trump: "Yeah! They will cost so much that we will have to construct robots to build the phones!"
The world: "But if robots build them, that won't employ workers."
Trump: "My robots will be so awesome that they will cook breakfast for the workers!"
Sometimes I want him to say "Because I'm Donald Trump, bitch" in the same voice that Dave Chapelle used when he said "'Cuz I'm Rick James, bitch!"
Irony: One reason you can build iPhones cheaply in China is because Chinese workers don't get the kinds of protections and rights that US workers do. That was part of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP): to raise the worker protections in China to level the playing field. Trump is doing the opposite. He says regulations will be removed in the US. So instead of raising worker protections for Chinese workers, it sounds like he is going to remove protections from US workers. And ironically, the blue-collar workers voted for this.
Or they could simply make less profit. They've stashed almost a quarter trillion dollars away, not paying people well. They make 20 billion a quarter. A tiny sliver of that could bring the factories home.
Not only that, but forcing companies to build domestically is itself a type of regulation.
In the original article the way Trump was going to get Apple to build more here was via tax cuts and other incentives, NOT REGULATION.
Because regulations may be able to stop people from doing things (sometimes) but they usually can't make them start...
Or, Trump could give corporations huge tax decreases, they'll pocket the money
Why would Apple need MORE money pocketed? Apple would far rather put lots of the money they have "pocketed" to work.
What will happen is Trump will give Apple a huge break on taxes for re-patriating overseas money, Apple will bring a lot back and spend a lot of it here.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Same thing I guess Tim Cook the CEO of Apple is smoking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
...words from the polished turd you all voted for.
Let me know how that works out for you.
The Nazi vote didn't get him in.
It was the White female sleeper cells.
He doesn't control the military, either.
Notice the hand-holding by Congress.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Couldn't the US import a lot of patient, small handed, inexpensive workers from Mexico?
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
... he's going to make Mexico pay for it
I am very liberal, and very much a Democrat. Yet, I completely agree. It makes no sense to tax a corporation. Tax personal income. Tax sales of goods and services. Allow a business to invest all its money in itself and it's employees.
If only there were more of us who feel this way. I'm really so old I've forgotten all of my thinking process on this, but is corporate taxation in addition to the taxation of investment profits/dividends simply a kind of double dipping for no clearly valuable reason? Am I just so old I've forgotten the clearly valuable reason? Somebody from the non-alt-left want to try and remind me?
Regulations are not created by some evil Liberul cabal in Berkeley that sits around smoking weed and drinking espressos
Right, it's in DC, not Berkley. And it's coke, not weed.
BUT, any tax cuts means revenues will have to be made up somewhere else
If companies make more money and higher more people and Apple and other companies are bringing back a ton of overseas cash why Is overall intake of tax revenue not higher? *doe eyes*
I bet Trump's imagined wealth that this will in fact happen.
If Trump's weather is so imaginary, why are so many liberals concerned about the real estate he owns all over the world as a conflict of interest? How many overseas properties do you own again? *doe eyes*
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple already gets tax cuts, giving them more won't make them bring factories here especially if they don't have the cheap labor and cheap local resources/refineries/expertise they enjoy elsewhere
Twinstiq, game news
The president can send the military out o. Limited campaigns without declarations of war. This has happened constantly over the past couple of US administration s. Also correct me if im wrong but isn't Trump's party the ones that control house and Senate?
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we'll make the robots, too. [laughter]
Because if there's one thing robots can't build, it's other robots. Those jobs are totally safe. Go Trump!
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Cook will have Trump for breakfast. Expect a "deal" to be hammered out where Apple pays even less tax than it does now in exchange for providing a tiny handfull of jobs - just like they did in Ireland except probably even more of a screwover.
I'm having trouble reconciling this fact with your assertion that they pay zero taxes now. Perhaps it's because you made up your facts to fit some compelling narrative:
http://thetechnalyzer.com/apple-is-the-largest-taxpayer-in-the-world/
Yup, and those selfsame damned women have already started going nuts because OMG Trump hates women!!eleven! THEN WHY DID YOU SHITS VOTE FOR HIM?! WHEN ARE WE GOING TO FUCKING HOLD WOMEN ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR SHIT THE WAY THEY'RE HOLDING ALL ASSIGNED MALES ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE END OF ABORTION?!
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. I am yelling, god damn it. Bacon ipsum dolor amet ball tip pork ham hock, fatback doner venison beef turkey shoulder tri-tip. Shankle leberkas spare ribs, sausage cow meatloaf pastrami venison chicken.
Apple could continue to outsource manufacturing as they do now, but in the US. Electronic contract manufactures such as, Jabil, Flex (formerly Flextronics), and Celestica have sites across the US. http://www.jabil.com/locations/ https://www.flextronics.com/who-we-are/locations/americas?field_region_country_tid=31&field_focus_tid=All https://www.celestica.com/about-us/locations#americas
Actually its very easy to get the Chinese to pay for stuff in the US. They hold a huge amount of dollars. Just start the printing presses and devalue the dollar and the Chinese holding just went down in value and you used the printed dollars for what you wanted to do. In effect the Chinese paid for it.
**Life is too short to be serious**
The real question to ask is why he is saying such a thing when it lies so far outside of the bounds of reality.
It's going to be interesting, but not in a good way.
To hijack a the old ipod meme:
Less votes than Romney. Lame.
So few people did their duty as citizens and bothered to vote.
Democracy - use it or lose it. If everyone who could vote voted there would be room for a third party instead of the loudest clown versus the one best at playing political insider games.
Like that tiny kerfuffle known as the Vietnam War^H^H^H Police Action?
Freedom to fear. Freedom from thought. Freedom to kill.
I guess the War on Terror really is about freedom!
Will Trump Build the Walls for the Plant?
That German spy Trump is a funny guy
because when it doesn't happen (or it does and our free speech policies make it pretty obvious they're dumping chemicals into drinking water and air like they do in China) it'll blow up.
The only thing that scares me is this: without a war Trump is a one term president. And he's already lining up Syria and Iran...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Robots do the work? - then this technology will be deployed to more companies. Therefore even higher unemployment.
The partially assembled components will be shipped to the USA, where the US workers will place it into a made in USA box, and tape the box with made in USA tape, and possibly supply printed in USA instructions, printed on made in USA paper.
Maybe for more advanced workers, they can plug in some tiny cables, or put the protective tape on the screen, as long as it's made in USA.
Maybe they can even build chargers and dongles in the USA, and place them in USA made boxes, with USA made plugs.
The workers will be paid minimum wage of 6.25/hr, because anything more will stifle innovation.
The workers will all be part time, casual workers, because full time stifles innovation.
The workers will have their own funded healthcare, because the expensive ObamaCare will be repealed.
The workers will have no union, because unions stifle innovation.
The workers will have to undergo drug screening, lie detector tests, and have no vacation days, sick days, or family days, because those hurt productivity.
The point of moving iPhone production to the US isn't to bring back jobs, it's to make America more self-reliant, send less US dollars to China.
First of, Kudos to parent post for making a well thought out argument for policy that doesn't involve mindlessly demonizing the left or right in some simplistic idiotic fashion.
Your proposal seems very sound, encourage business and lower the barrier to create and compete. Tax the people who profit, not the company. However, I see two problems with your argument.
1) Corporations don't really pass on taxes to the consumers. Most taxes are on profits, not units sold, so unless you are thinking that sales tax is lion's share of tax that is paid out (it isn't), this isn't really an accurate view. A better way to describe taxes for corporations is being paid out of profits that could be returned to investors as profit or used for recapitalization. This would probably just result in the really wealth owners of corporations becoming even more wealth unless you also really cranked up the personal income tax for the wealthy and removed tax dodges. Businesses get to write off business expenses and deduct them from profits already, so removing taxes on profits isn't going to suddenly cause companies to radically change their expenditure on labor or infrastructure.
2) Corporations are used as personal piggy-banks by the very wealthy. By removing any taxes on corporate profits, you allow me as a majority interest holder in a large or wealthy corporation to keep my profits in the corp and then use the profits to acquire more companies and aggregate holdings completely tax free. And only divesting as I needed cash. It would be like being able to put your entire income into a tax free ROTH account, and only deducting money (and therefor paying taxes) when you bought groceries, but accruing wealth and interest in the interim.
If you want to do something like this, you would need to put some rules in place to keep corporations either reinvesting or divesting profits to shareholders and employees.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Don't just look at the graph - learn what it represents.
I once did some contract work at a steelworks with fantastic productivity numbers yet a year later they went broke. What mattered was not selling at a loss instead of a rubbery figure that neglected most inputs and outputs.
A good way to boost such false metrics is to sack all product development, testing and maintainance staff while not training replacements for production staff. The numbers look utterly fantastic until reality sets in and other companies who did not cut eat your lunch.
I suggest looking at inputs and outputs instead of deliberately distracting highly massaged numbers. Compare sales over years adjusted for inflation and go back to before 2008 to see the reality of a slow climb out of a deep hole instead of the wonderful thing people wish to trick you into believing.
Experiment:
Let's start a ballot initiative to either allow or ban Candy Crush Saga.
Voter registration sites go down in 3... 2... 1 ...
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
In my state there are normally a lot of "informal" votes - blank or messed up in some way. I'm not sure of the percentage but it's usually a few percent.
We had a vote on daylight saving time. There was 51% against, 49% for and less than half a percent of "informal" votes. People actually had something they wanted to vote on that time. Sometimes compulsory voting actually works (compelled by the risk of a trivial fine where I live).
Trumps a liar and nothing but some good Slashdot fun will come of this.
The Classic Series and up from Mexico blow away any Asian Strat or any American Standard. You have to step up to the American Deluxe series to finally start seeing more quality, and even then it's not worth the premium.
Just find a used Classic Player, and call it a day.
Long time Apple user here.
A couple things here:
1. Apple has large profit margins on all of its products. If they have other incentives for bringing production of products like the iPhone back to America, they can certainly accept a smaller margin on each unit to help offset higher production costs. It's all a matter of what makes economic sense in the grand scheme of things. (Don't forget - there's some potential marketing value in saying it's "Made in the USA" too.)
2. A lot of manufacturing of electronics in general is done in countries like China because they don't care about the environmental damage the production does. (They've got entire cities full of pollution and at least one river that's basically poison flowing through it.) That's an economic decision in and of itself though. China is essentially trading some of its natural resources and national health for ability to stay competitive (if not the ONLY one) making these goods. IMO, this is the "dirty little secret" of why America let a lot of those jobs go overseas in the first place. We didn't want to incur the environmental impact ourselves. For better or for worse, nobody really has figured out a method of roll the true environmental costs of production into things. (This is why you hear about "carbon credit" schemes and the like.... All additional economic mechanisms to attempt to factor in those costs in the price of things like electric power generation and direct them to mitigating the damage. But IMO, all still greatly flawed because we can't trust the entities collecting the money to use it solely for that purpose.)
So what's to stop Apple from employing immigrants at those plants like all the farms and food processing plants around the country
Um does Chump even know that his VP doesn't care for queer folk, like the Apple president?
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Trump will release his tax returns and give money to the poor. Details at 11.
Trumpville (N) An abandoned industrial complex created by taxpayer money. The companies closed the factories and took their tax breaks back to China.
Your idea doesn't really make any sense at all. You claim that society allows corporations to misbehave because they gain taxes from the corporation. But all the corporation does is shift profit offshore, reduce the pay offered to their labor, and raise consumer costs to offset the tax cost. It won't affect the golden parachutes, executive bonuses, etc. The bottom line is that PEOPLE pay the taxes -- and the leaders of the companies decide who gets to pay what part of those taxes.
If you want the people who earn the most to pay the most, then tax income at the personal level and make it a progressive tax. Corporate tax is generally going to end up being regressive because the people who are most effected by it will INEVITABLY be the people who have the least power and therefore the poorest.
Dipshits abound on slashdot and being modded up. Congress recognized Jerusalem as the capitol since 1995, just gave the president power to defer moving the embassy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Totally myopic comment. The assembly component of the cost of an iphone is already tiny. The total unit cost including components is only around $200, I'd guess the labor contributes around $20 of that. Even if assembling it in the U.S. was twice as expensive that would only add $40 to the price. Anyway, the higher wages in the U.S. will be irrelevant as human labor is increased with machine labor. Trained humans working with machines are waaaaay more productive than sweatshop labor. The increased productivity will offset the more expensive labor. No big deal, no $3000 iPhone.
And only with LLCs run with a sufficient quantity of owners/board members (I believe the number I read was either 3 or 5 MINIMUM, and any number of actions by those members could result in liability protection being lost.)
Class S and a few of the others DO include liability albeit with certain limitations (like a homesteaded house not counting as a confiscatable asset.)
For the full details google for the US legal code around the formation and classification of corporations. There is lots of information in there, and plenty of professional synopsis' of what it all means.
Yeah, that's great and all, Don, but you'd be better off having that phone call with whoever runs Foxconn. Given that Apple doesn't actually, you know, build anything.
Ok, Don. A Tax incentive will only work if it offers a better deal than they have already.
Given that they funnel all of their profits through Ireland to avoid paying taxes where they sell their goods. Then you would have to offer a better deal than they get in Ireland
Since they are getting a 0.005% corporate tax rate in Ireland. I don't think your are going to offer them a much better deal
Unless you changes your tax rules to tax revenue and not profit then you are always going to be whistling dixie.
However it would probably be better if you actually paid your own taxes as an example to all the other corporate to pay their taxes.
Which state is going to pay Apple/OSx tax incentives to build a manufacturing plant is it going to be Michigan to Pennsylvania where he wants to build the plant? How much more tax monies does Mr. Trump need to collect from Michigan to Pennsylvania to pay Apple/OSx to build a plant in their state?
Disclaimer: I voted for neither candidate so save your wind.
This is no excuse. If you live in the US and you were over 18 on Nov 8th, then it's your fault that Trump won if you didn't vote for Hillary.
Just like every other time a republican has made the promise of creating jobs by deregulation:
- Lots of good regulations that citizens actually BENEFIT from, the ones that make it harder for companies to kill their workers, cheat their customers, steal from you, poison you, defraud you, kill their customers or simply lie about what you are paying for will be removed
- No jobs will appear
- None of the annoying, bad, ridiculous, silly regulations will go away (big corporations love those too much because they keep competition expensive)
- As companies take advantage of the lack of good regulations - this will cause a whole slew of new crisises just like it always does, which will then be used to justify removing even MORE useful regulations.
Notice how Trump has been targetting the consumer financial protection bureau ? It's one of the few things he and Ryan agrees on - because you can't have law enforcement actually PUNISHING bankers who defraud people. Next time some bank wants to open an account for you without your consent and knowledge and then wait a year or two to send you a massive bill for overdue banking fees on an account that you never opened it really shouldn't end up with the CEO fired without a golden handshake and facing jailtime like the last one. The CFPB must be scrapped - we can't have a government agency actually being efficient and doing it's job - especially when that job benefits Americans and makes it harder for wall street to steal from them.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
either you tell machines what to do or the machines tell you what to do
you choose
apple are ahead of the game they will allow them to " repatriate " funds to do this in reverse...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYshVbcEmUc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYshVbcEmUc
have fun
John Jones
Seen a similar need from non-european manufacturers who want to sell into the European market. By doing some final assembly in a European country (but only a token, like putting already prebuilt appliance electronics into a case and sealing it) they can label the final product as "assembled in ". Similarly, I can see Apple shipping phones missing only the backs and (say) the battery into the US to a "final assembly center", claiming a government tax credit for the expense, but only creating a handful of relatively low-skilled and low-paid jobs.
-=DaveHowe=-
Imagine if Trump's protectionism had been used against chip offshoring in the 1970s-1980s. Upwards of 100,000 U.S. jobs would have been saved from low-skill to highly specialized electronic and microprocessor engineering jobs. IChip manufacturing would have never been set up in places such as Mexico and El Salvador. These countries would have to figure out another path to economic survival. With the Soviets having a regional interest, maybe the cold war wouldn't have ended, saving another half a million U.S. technology jobs. With Mexico aligned with Soviet interests, there very well might be a wall built by Mexico to keep its own citizens in.
Single core CPUs would remain upwards $1000 and the costs of FPGAs and ASICs certainly wouldn't have spiraled down to where microelectronics do not add significantly to the cost of anything from toys to toaster ovens to cars. An iPhone might cost $10,000 (as 1980s Apple Macintosh computers did.) People like Donald Trump would still be able to afford $10,000 iPhones, $15,000 iPads, $20,000 laptops. Of course, the microcomputer, gaming, smartphone and tablet App software industry would be a shadow of what it is today. There are only so many apps required by billionaires and millionaires. With such a limited market I'm underestimating the cost of Apple products and overestimating how viable Apple would be as a company serving a market of only a few thousand millionaires and billionaires.
Look at how well Trump-style protectionism has worked elsewhere. To save a handful of low-tech legacy U.S. jobs in the steel industry, we've sacrificed hundreds of thousands of jobs in our domestic auto industry. To save competitive domestic oil, coal and solar industry jobs, we've made thousands of U.S. companies uncompetitive with the rest of the world who are rapidly taking advantage of China's
of Chinas less than $1 photovoltaics in the same way the U.S. software and computer industry once took advantage of less than $1 microchips.
The only "regulation" whose elimination could possibly incentivize companies to build manufacturing plants in the U.S. is the 13th amendment.
"Incentivize" means giving Apple subsidies by tax breaks, direct payment, or other perks. Seriously? Apple has so much cash that they need entire departments to figure out where to stuff it. So even if Apple builds a plant somewhere in the US, where will it be? Somewhere in a place where talent is located and that typically is in short supply of skilled workers? Or in those places where we have economic wasteland and people need to be trained for a long time before they can work in such a plant? And what does he consider 'big' other than his ego? In order to make a reasonable impact that plant needs to employ 10,000+ long term. And even then the question is why? Why go through all this effort to get what would be low paying jobs? I rather see engineering and R&D centers crop up and keep the Chinese gluing the iPhones together. What we need is not factories that operate like it is the 50s. We need future proof options, such as turning old coal mines into hydro power plants, steel factories switching away from making beams towards specialized materials that are stronger and lighter. A throwback to the 80s with trickle down Reagonomics won't work, because it never did.
hen they should hold no patents, copyrights or trademarks, since these are enforced and protected by the central government via tax revenue, which the corporation isn't paying. If the employees paying tax are supposed to be equivalent, then only the employees should be allowed to hold these rights and benefit from them (and pursue their protection as we have to for our own possession.
They should have to pay for fire protection too.
And how about the armed forces? They protect homes and factories, and only homes are being paid for protection. Corporations should pay for the armed forces that protect their assets too.
Not to mention MP salaries: no voice for corporations because the salary is paid from taxes, which the corporation doesn't pay.
Do you incentivize a company that is already hiding its profits offshore to avoid U.S. taxes?
Trump: Will give you a HUGE tax break.
Apple: "Ummmm, no thanks. We're good."
Neither should have ever been nominated. There are a lot more competent men and women out there to run the country than these two lying idiots. Your statement shows your ignorance.
Two birds with one stone.
1) Fix corporate tax loop holes. This would make Apple need to pay Billions in Tax.
2) Create new tax loop holes, this could save Apple Billions in Tax.
Two wins.
Vinnie: "I'd really be a shame if something were to happen to those nice tax loopholes. Perhaps it would be in your best interest to pay for a bit of protection, you know just in case something might happen if you know what I'm sayin'?"
Government revenue is largely based on income tax. Income tax is when your population is employed and makes money. When your population is unemployed, or if their salary is not increasing, the relative amount of government revenue also falls.
So when I corporation basically has all their employees in another country that money is not being collected as income tax. The only way to recover anything is through a corporate tax.
Eventually this all falls apart otherwise. Ideally you would tie your corporate tax rate to the percentage of employees wages you are not paying income tax on. However this is also known as more less a trade tariff which seems to be a no-no in globalization.
...and Mexico is going to pay for it!!
No company in their right mind would move or build a new plant when they are already established.
Moving alone would cost much more than whatever penalties they would have to pay.
It doesn't matter if Apple moves to the US or not. Either way, the costs will be shifted to the end consumer. So Trump is fucking over YOU, not Apple.
...we only need to make a few robots, then they will make the rest.
The Mac Pro is already made in TX, USA. Some issues with this:
- The Mac Pro is the simplest, most easy to build in the US because it's closest to a traditional modular Wintel PC
- Because of the previously point - it's also the lowest tech Mac sold and isn't really pushing the envelope so much
- It's also just about the further product, complexity, tech and design-wise from iPhones
- The Mac Pro isn't all that popular because it's expensive for what you get - you still need external monitors, keyboard, etc.
- Imagine the price point for a US-made iPhone - easily 2x-5x higher than the current $800-$1500 price
- If you did want to try, the factory would be 99% robotic to have any hope of being cost-competitive with China - total jobs added: maybe 100 or so. It would be a reduction from the Foxconn factories in China with are also automating with robotics
I read the article carefully, and I didn't see an answer to my question.
... it took China a decade to do it, and they were highly motivated and had state sponsorship. The US once had it, but it has withered away and would have to be re-established.
It says that the "cost will double". But it doesn't say the cost of what.
If it's the assembly cost, that is only about 3% of the cost of an iPhone. The majority of the parts that go into making an iPhone are not China sourced (although a certain amount is from China, but the largest % of parts comes from Germany, and no, China isn't no2 on the list either).
What is missing is the infrastructure that surrounds the China assembly plants. The cost of Labor isn't the issue. (China and Mexico have almost identical labor costs, for example).
That's something that every Mining Engineer could tell you. There are plenty of places in the world with rich mineral or oil deposits, but the infrastructure to exploit those deposits doesn't exist, or more properly exists in the places they are actively mining and pumping today.
That's the kind of thing that takes years to develop
Apple has built computers in the US, in Ireland, and other "first world" nations in the past, and they assemble iMacs in Texas today.
Dipshits abound on slashdot and being modded up.
What does that have to do with me?
Congress recognized Jerusalem as the capitol since 1995, just gave the president power to defer moving the embassy.
A law that was passed but never implemented because Clinton, Bush and Obama asserted that Congress infringed on the president's ability to conduct foreign policy. If Trump has any brains, he will continue that policy until the status of Jerusalem is resolved in the Middle East.
1) You clearly don't understand how the economy works, but most people with your point of view don't.
I commend you on your insight into 'my point of view', by the way, what is 'my point of view'? I advocated for no particular POV or change, I just pointed out a few possible pitfalls of the suggested strategy. You sound like the one coming to the discussion with an axe to grind....
By pulling taxes from anywhere you are leaching away from this investment and making us all poorer in the long run.
Arrr, taxes are theft! Ayn Was right, the looters are upon us! Taxes are Socialism and slavery! Lol, I keep waiting for you anti-tax types to go set up in failed third world state that has no government. I'm sure that you will become billionaires in short order with your 100% fiscal efficiency.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Well, Ireland is an EU member state, so the Commission's ruling is likely to be upheld, given that Ireland specified either a low tax rate specific to a single company, or other substantial incentives specific to a single company compared to other companies in Ireland, which could be classed as state aid.
Ireland's corporate tax rate is already very low, and the country is very likely to gain from Brexit, when companies with seats in the UK will move to Ireland, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Estonia and elsewhere in the EU.
The labor and talent that had moved to the UK from the rest of the EU per free movement of labor and services, is likely to move to Ireland and other EU member states, if and when opportunities in the UK will wither.
Many UK citizens will also rediscover their roots in EU countries, especially when a hard Brexit happens.