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Why MakerBot Didn't Kickstart A 3D Printing Revolution (backchannel.com)

Bre PettisâS once said MakerBot gave you a superpower -- "You can make anything you need." But four years later, mirandakatz writes that though MakerBot promised to revolutionize society, "That never happened." At Backchannel, Andrew Zaleski has the definitive, investigative account of why the 3D printing revolution hasn't yet come to pass, culled from interviews with industry observers, current MakerBot leadership, and a dozen former MakerBot employees. As he tells it, "In the span of a few years, MakerBot had to pull off two very different coups. It had to introduce millions of people to the wonders of 3D printing, and then convince them to shell out more than $1,000 for a machine. It also had to develop the technology fast enough to keep its customers happy. Those two tasks were too much for the fledgling company."

179 of 274 comments (clear)

  1. It's always cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do I spend a grand and a bunch of time learning the software necessary to print the widget, or do I buy the widget for $2 and spend no time learning how to use software? Virtually everyone I know with a 3D printer uses it for pointless projects that have no practical value. If it isn't a premade design, they're not printing it.

    1. Re:It's always cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, exactly. What is needed is a more expensive device that can be put into corner shops that prints high quality metal parts and maybe ceramics. These little plastic printers are just toys used to print toys.

    2. Re:It's always cost by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's really a key issue. Most "standalone" things people want are not made of plastics, except for toys. There are a some things - for example, parts for a small homemade drone or whatnot, where strength is not important but lightness is. But most often, if you want something "standalone", you want it out of metal.

      Being able to print replacement plastic parts for other things could be nice, mind you. For example, I've twice had to replace a plastic part on my refrigerator and it cost something like $50 each time with a nearly month delay, due to customs fees, shipping to where I am, etc. Having been able to print one out would have been great. Except, having a 3d printer alone wouldn't have been enough, because there's no "universal spare part database" that manufacturers upload to. A 3d scanner as well might have been able to enable reproducing the part from scanning its broken pieces, except that not only do you have to have one, the part was transparent, and many 3d scanners don't like transparent objects.

      A "3d printing revolution" may come some day. But things are a lot more complicated than just making it possible to print something out of some material.

      --
      People said I was dumb, but I proved them.
    3. Re:It's always cost by Humbubba · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Do 3D printers have an industry wide ranking and class designation yet? You know, a shorthand to let us know what kind of product, quality, utility and reliability it makes.

      And yeah, before I buy one, I want to see a catalogue of quality certified stuff the system can make that I want, need and desire. Include in that catalogue the time and materials needed. Post production instructions would be handy too. Maybe different kinds of catalogues; Some like the old Sears catalogue, others like a Chilton Repair Manual, or even something between a magazine and product catalogue, with articles, how-to columns, and product reviews; something promoting a self-sufficient DIY geek alternative...

    4. Re:It's always cost by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To replace even a fairly simple plastic part from your refrigerator, you need a 3D model of said part for the 3D Printer to produce it from.

      And said 3D model needs to be dimensionally correct and the printer has to then print it accurately.

      Whereas with a novelty item or toy, the 3D printer can just burp something out that meets a close enough approximation to be amusing.

      Anybody successfully cloning appliance parts with a 3D printer at home could find professional work for a substantial amount more than they'll save making the occasional part for the refrigerator.

    5. Re:It's always cost by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "Yes, exactly. What is needed is a more expensive device that can be put into corner shops that prints high quality metal parts and maybe ceramics"

      Exactly! Such a business would be the Kinko's of the new century.

    6. Re:It's always cost by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      ...many 3d scanners don't like transparent objects.

      Did you try painting it, or colouring it with a sharpie?

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    7. Re: It's always cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not that difficult to make a 3d model yourself. Since owning a 3d printer I've designed and printed tens of pieces as repair parts or one-off dedicated scratches to an itch.

      Talking of refrigerators, the repair part was a handle to fit the weirdly bent pieces of point-welded metal that held the previous, long gone, handle.

      3d printers are a godsend for a resourceful and frugal engineer.

    8. Re:It's always cost by samkass · · Score: 1

      A 3d scanner as well might have been able to enable reproducing the part from scanning its broken pieces

      Not with current technology. I have two different 3d scanners and what you end up with is a "blobby" version of the object that also has any tight corners, occluded areas, or holes very distorted. It's nice for larger objects but precise parts are way beyond home-grade 3d scanners today, and many parts are just physically incompatible with being scanned in that way.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    9. Re: It's always cost by TheSync · · Score: 2

      I have used 123D Catch for artistic purposes, but the resulting models lack dimensional accuracy for a "part." Photogrammetry is never going to replace a good CAD model.

    10. Re:It's always cost by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I've done just fine with Shapeways. They have the high end printers and can do plastics, metals and ceramics. The per item cost is higher but I don't have to drop $50,000 on the printer.

      It's been quite useful for custom drill guides in small volume manufacture (10s of units) and prototyping and the custom silver pendant went down well with my wife.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    11. Re:It's always cost by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      i have made stuff. i've made useful stuff. i've made stuff i designed myself for my own purposes. I've never needed my own printer though. Everything i've printed, i've sent out to places like shapeways. The difference in quality between a home printer and a kick ass professional printer is huge. if anyone cares about making stuff, they wouldn't waste the money on a toy that just makes chunky blobs of melted plastic.

    12. Re:It's always cost by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      OpenSCAD is the 3D tool for programmers. I can be productive in OpenSCAD in the way I cannot be with a point and click program.
      Making parametric models is a natural act in OpenSCAD.

      Try it out if you're frustrated with your 3D cad tool, but you aren't afraid of coding.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    13. Re: It's always cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can confirm that.

      I run a little electronics repair shop, and are often have to repair equipment that is rather old. Most of the manufacturers of that equipment are long out of business, or do not longer produce spare parts. These parts are often strangely shaped, and not easy replaceable in a conventional way. In that case I often use a simple 3D design program (like Designspark or 123D Design) and print the part on my cheap self build 3D printer. The accuracy of that printer is good enough to produce those parts, and for a cheap price.

      The only thing that's a bit of a drawback, is that it takes sometimes more than a hour to print some complex part. At the other hand, I can do a lot of work while the printer is pushing out the model, so at the end it's not a problem at all.

      In my case that 3D printer is a godsend, and it's a valuable tool to assist me in those repairs.

    14. Re:It's always cost by Rei · · Score: 2

      123D Catch app rarely ever works. And never works with transparent materials.

      --
      People said I was dumb, but I proved them.
    15. Re:It's always cost by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      Anybody successfully cloning appliance parts with a 3D printer at home could find professional work for a substantial amount more than they'll save making the occasional part for the refrigerator.

      Likely as soon as you start making replacement parts commercially based on the original parts, you'll run into patent and design copyright issues.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    16. Re:It's always cost by ShipIt · · Score: 2

      there's no "universal spare part database" that manufacturers upload to

      And if there was, they'd still want the $50 to download the part file so you could print it yourself. Heck, I ran across a book on amazon the other day that was $25 for hardcover or $25 for kindle.

    17. Re:It's always cost by Caedite+Eos · · Score: 2

      > I ran across a book on amazon the other day that was $25 for hardcover or $25 for kindle.

      My girlfriend was asking why I was willing to spend "just as much" for a real book as for a e-book. I replied, "storage". There are many books in my library that I would GLADLY trade for an "e" version. Not all, mind you, but most.

      For 90% of my book purchases it goeslike:
      Grab e-book from Amazon.
      Remove DRM.
      Throw in Calibre.
      Read on whatever device I like, wherever I am.(Calibre server running on a Pogoplug.)

    18. Re:It's always cost by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      That's really a key issue. Most "standalone" things people want are not made of plastics, except for toys.

      Yes, that's a key issue, but it's not the key issue. The key issue is that a 3D printer is not like a microwave oven. It is more like a home chop saw. A 3D printer is the tool that any self respecting geek needs in their workshop, but nobody needs it in the kitchen sitting next to the microwave. The market segment that actually needs a 3D printer is large and growing. It consists of tinkerers, model builders, open sourcerers, progressive artists, parents who want to give their children a leg up on a career path, and so on. Not mom and pop. Not attention deficit teenagers. Not granddad, not the homemaker. In other words, not the general population, but still a multi-billion dollar market that continues to grow exponentially.

      The linked article is not about the demise about of the home 3D printer industry, never mind the general additive manufacturing market, it is about how one company misread the wind direction and blundered its way out of a once-dominant market position. Osborne computer comes to mind as one of the many instructive examples from history. The home 3D printer market train won't stop just because one of the passengers fell off.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    19. Re:It's always cost by GrpA · · Score: 1

      3D printers aren't really suitable for people who just want to download and print stuff that other people have designed. In those applications, they are somewhere between novelty and a fad.

      However, if you need to make your own 3D parts they are indispensable, and learning the software is absolutely necessary.

      --
      Enjoy science fiction? "Turing Evolved" - AI, Mecha, Androids and rail-gun battles. What more could you want?
    20. Re:It's always cost by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Ignoring your time delay, the cost of those parts was two times $50 for a grand total of $100. The printer itself costs about $1000. That's a whole lot of replacement parts to be printed to make it worth the investment - not even counting the time and money spent scanning and refining the model so it can be printed out in the first place. Oh, and I'm ignoring the part where the 3D printed part has to be strong and heat resistant enough, which may or may not be an issue for the part you try to replicate. For many parts this will be an issue.

      This should nicely sum up why 3D printing is not the revolution it claimed to be.

    21. Re:It's always cost by Verdatum · · Score: 1

      If you just throw in a few extra steps, you can use a technique called "lost PLA" where you build investment out of plaster or ceramic around a 3D printed part, and then burn it out, making a mold, where you can cast most metals into it. But this requires acquiring a foundry-furnace, an electric kiln, potentially a specialty vacuum chamber, an outside space to set this stuff up, a spare weekend to do all this stuff, and a grinding station to clean up the casting. And unlike the lost-wax process, if you want a 2nd copy for whatever reason, you gotta do a whole additional print. In lost wax, you've got a silicone mold, so you just pour hot wax into that and you're ready for another try pretty quick.

  2. because by Threni · · Score: 5, Insightful

    nobody wants to spend £1000+ on a device which makes shitty low quality christmas cracker toys. It was obvious from the start that this was this seasons desktop publishing fad. The sort of people who it was argued would use these are already aware of better alternatives.

    1. Re:because by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      3D printing has some very good uses. Makerbot's problem is that rather than owning your own £1000 device just to do a few prints now and then, it makes more sense to use an online 3D printing service or the one at the local Hackerspace.

      The online services are fairly cheap and have better quality printers. They offer finishing too like polishing, better materials and tighter tolerances. You would have to do a hell of a lot of 3D printing to make it worth buying your own printer.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:because by Rei · · Score: 2

      Indeed. I've ordered 3d prints online several times and as things stand there is no reason I'd ever do otherwise. The choice is, "have something produced using top notch hardware and finished by professionals", or "have something produced by crappy hardware, by you". The marginal cost may be lower if you do it yourself, but you have to plop down $1k first, so unless you 3d print a lot, you don't win even on that comparison. It's just not worth it.

      If you run a business where you're 3d printing prototypes every day, that would be different. But regular for home users, I just can't see an argument for it.

      --
      People said I was dumb, but I proved them.
    3. Re:because by flux · · Score: 1

      Well, there's some benefit to having fast round-trip-times. I've noticed that Shapeways can take weeks to deliver, but I suppose that cold be because I've only ever ordered metal things from them.

      But no service can beat one hour delivery time.

      This is probably valuable to you only if you're designing and building something, though.

    4. Re:because by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 2

      If you did a lot of 3D printing, it might make sense to print prototypes of a part to make sure you've got it right, then send it off to somewhere like Shapeways for the final part. I've built and used two 3d-printers, which can be super handy if you know how to use them, and I've ordered stuff from Shapeways. They each have their place but I think it's a pretty useful combination.

      --
      Error 404 - Sig Not Found
    5. Re:because by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Sure, having your own is ideal... Is just the $1000 price tag that makes it unattractive.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:because by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I've experimented with 3D printing, but always end up using laser cutting instead. It's easy to do a basic top+ bottom cover in Inkscape, and cheap.

      I really must try a proper 3D one.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:because by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      I think you mean $200 price tag.

    8. Re:because by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      $1000 is well into the mid range though. An assembled Printrbot simple metal is $600. There's Velleman kits for 330 pounds (so uh about $5 these days). I've seen one running in the local Maplin and it gets pretty respectable results. You can get a different 3D printer from RS for a similar price, too.

      I think mine was not much over $1000 (maybe $1200?) and that's a dual head model with a heated bed and a somewhat larger print volume than average.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    9. Re:because by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I'll have to pop in to Maplin to take a look. Last time I was there all they had was a silly "3D pen". Should probably download one of the CAD packages and play with that first though.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:because by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      It was a few months ago. It wasn't set up last time I went in a few days ago.

      The learning curve on CAD is steep. If you're a programmer, you might find OpenSCAD more to your taste. Basically CAD files are programs to describe solid geometry.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re:because by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I'll have a look at that, thanks. The most complex thing I've done so far is basically an extrusion using layers of laser cut acrylic. I like the idea of being able to describe objects with coding.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:because by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Even better: those services can make basically any shape, even those that can't be done by 3D printing. My plastic prototypes are made by CNC instead - I just e-mail the CAD design, and the factory sends it back to me within a few days.

      The cost of having those made would've bought me a MakerBot by now. On the other hand a MakerBot 3D printer can't print the size (barely 30 cm in one direction) nor the shape (hanging in the air - would need support structures when 3D printing) I need...

    13. Re:because by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I'll have a look at that, thanks. The most complex thing I've done so far is basically an extrusion using layers of laser cut acrylic.

      I've been meaning to sign up for laser cutting training. It seems you can make custom cases REALLY easily on a laser cutter using finger jointed plywood, MDF or acrylic. Naturally, the shapes are much more limited, but the size and speed beet 3D printing for that kind of application.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  3. !Revolution by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The internet was a revolution, starting with a few networked government buildings.
    Mobile phones were a revolution, starting with heavy briefcases that barely worked anywhere.
    Computers were a revolution, starting with speeds so slow a human could keep up.

    None of these revolutions happened overnight.

    3D printers will become cheaper and will become common place so slowly, we won't even notice it until only in hindsight we will say "it was a revolution".
    It may take another 20 years to get there, but we will.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    1. Re:!Revolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...and people still won't be interested. Why? It's too much effort for too little result. Until you can push a button and have something useful and desirable come out the other other end 3D printing will be niche.

    2. Re:!Revolution by petes_PoV · · Score: 2

      None of these revolutions happened overnight.

      And none of them happened with the over-priced, feature-poor, unreliable, first generation products that were available at the start.

      Maybe one day there will be a device that can trace it's origins back to the slow, wobbly, objects that squirt little bits of plastic into barely recognisable shapes that we call "3-D printers". But those breakthrough machines will be much easier to use, they will not be restricted to making the sort of crap that a low-cost foreign manufacturer would be ashamed of and they will be designed to meet an actual need: not as a showcase of "because we can ... isn't it Kule?" (answer: no)

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    3. Re:!Revolution by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And none of them happened with the over-priced, feature-poor, unreliable, first generation products that were available at the start.

      Oh wow, you really don't know the history of the 3 things listed above do you.

    4. Re:!Revolution by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are good professional 3d printers. They're very useful and they've been around for some time. Makerbot though is not all that good. I didn't understand why people liked it so much when the output was so mediocre. Yes it's affordable in the home, but there's not a lot you can do with it either.

    5. Re:!Revolution by Calydor · · Score: 2

      No, he really does.

      The first generation of computers? Someone in the business (I think it was IBM, but don't quote me on that) predicted that the world might need FIVE computers!
      The first generation of mobile phones? Literally briefcases owned only by the richest business people wanting to look hip and futuristic.
      The first generation of the internet? Two computers trying to communicate over the phone lines by sending the word 'LOGIN'. They broke down after the G.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    6. Re:!Revolution by geekmux · · Score: 1

      The internet was a revolution, starting with a few networked government buildings. Mobile phones were a revolution, starting with heavy briefcases that barely worked anywhere. Computers were a revolution, starting with speeds so slow a human could keep up.

      None of these revolutions happened overnight.

      3D printers will become cheaper and will become common place so slowly, we won't even notice it until only in hindsight we will say "it was a revolution". It may take another 20 years to get there, but we will.

      The word revolution also contains the word evolution, and you might have noticed that we've evolved past the point of calling a paper printer a necessary component of computing today.

      3D printing, regardless of cost, hasn't even established itself as a useful product for the masses, and in today's landscape of patent and liability induced paranoia, it may never stand a chance. People freaked out over the concept of 3D printing gun parts, as if milling machines and AR-15 CAD drawings didn't exist before shitting plastic was so vogue.

      Ironically, Keurig machines changed the face of coffee brewing for the masses, while those non-recyclable k-cups piled into landfills by the millions daily. It's amazing what humans will embrace when certain addictions are addressed. Maybe 3D printers should have used chocolate as the medium...

    7. Re:!Revolution by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No, he really does.

      The first generation of computers? Someone in the business (I think it was IBM, but don't quote me on that) predicted that the world might need FIVE computers!
      The first generation of mobile phones? Literally briefcases owned only by the richest business people wanting to look hip and futuristic.
      The first generation of the internet? Two computers trying to communicate over the phone lines by sending the word 'LOGIN'. They broke down after the G.

      I'm glad you're agreeing with me but disappointed you didn't realise it.

      The GP said none of the products were overpriced unreliable and feature poor.
      You provided examples of produces which were overpriced, unreliable and feature poor.

    8. Re:!Revolution by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The GP said none of the products were overpriced unreliable and feature poor.

      You should reread the GP. He said that the revolutions didn't happen with the overpriced, unreliable, feature-poor, first-generation products.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:!Revolution by Milharis · · Score: 1

      While you're definitely right that it needs some time to mature, I don't think 3D printing is something that is ever going to be widespread in the public.
      Honestly, even if I could print whatever I wanted right now, I don't know what I would do. I have a need for one maybe a few times a year, not every day like for the internet, or phones or computers.
      It's for professionals and some hobbyists, not the general public.

      In the industry, it will be a revolution, and it's already happening. At my company we use them all the time for some rapid prototyping, but it's limited in capabilities yet. However if we could replace our expensive and long to make moulds with some 3d printed pieces, we could iterate so much faster and at a much cheaper price.

    10. Re:!Revolution by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

      Lets see what kids that were exposed to 3D printers make when they're in their 20s and 30s.

    11. Re:!Revolution by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      The impact of 3D printing has long been over hyped and exaggerated. Not that it isn't a wonderful technology that has many benefits, but it is far from holding a promise of low cost mass production. 3D printing is a step above CNC, but with more material limitations.

      3D printing will continue to expand where it makes sense, but it is not destined to be a mass producing technology any time soon. Its perfect for making molds for mass production though, and its a great product development tool.

    12. Re:!Revolution by Rei · · Score: 5, Funny

      The word revolution also contains the word evolution, and you might have noticed that we've evolved past the point of calling a paper printer a necessary component of computing today.

      And the word "internet" contains the word "tern", so clearly it is built upon angry arctic birds with sharp beaks that dive bomb anyone who gets too close to their nesting grounds.

      --
      People said I was dumb, but I proved them.
    13. Re:!Revolution by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call 3D printing "a step above CNC", just like a laser cutter is not "a step above CNC" either. Each of these three computer-controlled tools are complementary because they each have their own strengths and weaknesses.

    14. Re:!Revolution by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      You might want to look into 3D-printed molds from Stratasys. It's not as strong (i.e. very limited runs) as metal molds but for short runs of prototypes it seems to be an excellent solution.

    15. Re:!Revolution by Yvan256 · · Score: 2

      While I agree that a hobby-grade 3-axis CNC can do things a 3D-printer can't, there's also no denying that the same CNC cannot do parts like these. Each machine have their own strengths.

    16. Re:!Revolution by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      That's his point. You don't release the first generation and then, once it's been out a couple of years, say 'oh, the revolution didn't happen, let's give up'. You only get the revolution if you keep improving the products over a dozen or more revisions.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    17. Re:!Revolution by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Last week I saw a printed metal gear that included a working ballbearing assembly, complete with the ballbearings themselves.

    18. Re:!Revolution by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Probably a SLS part.

    19. Re:!Revolution by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Nice choice. At my local hackspace, someone printed an adapter to connect up the shop vac air filtering machine to the DeWalt contractor saw using ninjaflex. It works very well and is another thing you couldn't easily mill.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    20. Re:!Revolution by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      The word revolution also contains the word evolution, and you might have noticed that we've evolved past the point of calling a paper printer a necessary component of computing today.

      And the word "internet" contains the word "tern", so clearly it is built upon angry arctic birds with sharp beaks that dive bomb anyone who gets too close to their nesting grounds.

      Well, that would explain the Angry Birds phenomenon of a few years ago.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    21. Re:!Revolution by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      Um, yes he does. Especially computers. Overpriced, feature-poor and unreliable were the hallmarks of some of the first gen microcomputers I used in the late 70s and early 80s. And some of the first "consumer"/small business systems cost more than cars did. I knew a guy who was selling IBM XTs with modems and weather forecast access software to farmers for over $10K a pop.

      The "internet" as I knew it in the 80s wasn't the internet, it was BBSs and the horribly overpriced CompuServe. Then it was SLIP connections and using FTP, then Mosaic, then a thousand other incremental steps and now you have the ability to watch people get nutshotted in 4K on your monitor.

      Similar with mobile phones. Horribly expensive and unreliable. Then came PSION and WinCE "smart" phones that sucked ass. Japan kinda got that going well in the early 2000s with their DoCoMo FOMA phones but didn't want the rest of the world to get in on the fun so they never made non-Japanese models. Palm came along with the Treo and that was the first mostly useful smart-phone and then came the iPhones and the Androids and now here we are today.

    22. Re:!Revolution by mcswell · · Score: 1

      You say you want a revolution
      Well, you know
      We all want to change the world
      You tell me that it's evolution
      Well, you know
      We all want to change the world.

      (said a long time ago by four long-haired types)

    23. Re:!Revolution by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Dildos. They'll probably make dildos.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    24. Re:!Revolution by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      Um, yes he does. Especially computers. Overpriced, feature-poor and unreliable were the hallmarks of some of the first gen microcomputers I used in the late 70s and early 80s. ...

      That was actually second generation (of micro-computers, not mini or mainframe). I had a CP/M computer in 1980 that worked fine and even had disk drives. Eight inches across! 8-)

      What you are describing was 60's and 70's, the Imsai computers were early 70's, as I remember. The first Altair was in mid 60's.

      I had Compuserve Micronet, that was a bit cheaper. The Internet based on HTML was later, though.

      Compuserve still has a website up. I still have a Compuserve email address, but it really goes somewhere else. It's been so long that people don't even ask if it is old anymore! 8-)

  4. Way to go, a-hats! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Mangled unicode in the second word. That's got to be a record!

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  5. Too much, too fast by locater16 · · Score: 2

    3D Printing is hardware, not software, you can't just re-write and make it better for everyone instantly at virtually no cost. As soon as you produce a better piece of hardware you have to distribute it, make it sound good enough to people that bought your last hardware, make it sound better to those who haven't bought it already, etc etc. Hardware takes time, it takes patience, it takes perseverance. People are still interested in 3D printing, other hardware designers love it for rapid prototyping, it's starting to be used more and more in industrial production altogether. But selling it to consumers? That was never the way to go, not everyone needs a 3d printer on their desk, and not everyone needs their potentially 3d printed object "RIGHT NOW!" or even fairly quickly. Someday, a while from now, you'll be able to go to a website, select a cup or a custom statue or whatever, have it 3D printed and delivered to your door for a fairly reasonable, even cheap, price. That'll be the revolution, not having some giant, cumbersome, noisy machine sitting in every garage for no reason.

    1. Re:Too much, too fast by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Someday, a while from now, you'll be able to go to a website, select a cup or a custom statue or whatever, have it 3D printed and delivered to your door for a fairly reasonable, even cheap, price.

      You mean something like Shapeways or 3D hubs*?

      * they also list commercial/industrial-quality services, not just home owners.

    2. Re:Too much, too fast by burtosis · · Score: 1

      3D Printing is hardware, not software, you can't just re-write and make it better for everyone instantly at virtually no cost. As soon as you produce a better piece of hardware you have to distribute it, make it sound good enough to people that bought your last hardware, make it sound better to those who haven't bought it yet.

      Nonsense. I just download the newer schematics and hit the print button. In no time at all I've got the latest hardware model, cheap to free to make and distributed to everyone instantly for free. Thats how it's supposed to work right?

    3. Re:Too much, too fast by WolfgangVL · · Score: 1

      The very first things you are going to print when you finally come around is upgraded hardware for your printer. When you're discussing 3d printers, a large portion of hardware IS software.

      I can't tell if you're parroting Ken Olson on purpose or not.
      "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home."

      3d printing is changing the world right now. The maker revolution is on right now. You're not going to notice while you're busy buying more and more useless shit at the mall, but when your crap breaks, its the 3d printer guys that will salvage the components before it gets to the landfill you're filling.

      I've used my 3d printer to print structural parts for a home made CNC mill, which mills out the parts I need in soft metals if that's what my design calls for.

      I print neatos for my friends, or when I'm calibrating a new material, so I have a pretty large collection of plastic toys. I give them away on the regular, for holidays and bdays and crap, so some people are under the impression that those are all it makes.

      One look at my workshop will show you, 3d printing and electronics are a perfect fit. Seeing as how robotics is ALSO changing the world at a pretty fast pace, I'd say you're life will very soon be made better with 3d printing, directly, or indirectly.

      --
      You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
  6. Copy machine at stores by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They would have done better if they adopted the approach of copy machines.
    Set top-line 3D printers up at Wal-Mart or similar locations and let people print from a catalog of pre-designed objects or home-designed objects.
    Have a tech specialist there to fix and help to print. Maybe sell coffee and donuts to make some money.
    Then, offer them basic models that they can take home if they like using it.

    1. Re:Copy machine at stores by Kremmy · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, 3D printing just isn't fast enough yet. The printer might have capacity to print a 5 inch cube, but actually printing a 5 inch cube even if hollow is going to take all day.

    2. Re:Copy machine at stores by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What are they going to make though? Mostly toys. You can make lumps of plastic basically. A professional 3d printer for use by professionals makes models and mockups, not something someone off the street is going to want or need.

    3. Re:Copy machine at stores by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The main use I can see for such a machine is printing replacement parts for the cheap bit of plastic that breaks in a load of consumer equipment, but where the replacements are too difficult or expensive to buy. Unfortunately, doing that well will also need some kind of 3D scanner so that you can put in the broken bit and modify it (e.g. put in two parts and then drag them around until you have a single object).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Copy machine at stores by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Have You patented it yet?

    5. Re:Copy machine at stores by damnbunni · · Score: 1

      That I can't get replacement parts for a thing sometimes boggles me.

      I don't expect to get parts for cheap toys, but for my $100 Kensington trackball? One of the little 'rubies' the ball sits on got lost when I was cleaning it. This is something that just snaps into place, and the plant must have krillions of.

      Nope, Kensington can't send me one. They did, however, send me a whole new trackball under warranty. Needless to say, I kept the old one for future spare parts.

    6. Re:Copy machine at stores by grumling · · Score: 2

      Office Depot has 3d printing at their stores.

      http://news.officedepot.com/pr...

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    7. Re:Copy machine at stores by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      I had a dishwasher and one of the plastic wheels that let the top drawer roll out broke. No problem, just buy a new one and replace it. But alas, for some of the models the company wasn't making single parts available. You had to buy the whole upper drawer/tray assembly to fix one plastic wheel at a price of $300 when new dishwashers were starting for around $100 more. For some other models you could buy just the wheel but definitely not this one.

      And if you think I'm not naming the company, FU Maytag.

    8. Re:Copy machine at stores by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      It's still the right idea, if you remove the "wait in the store while it prints" part. Maybe order online, let the store print it, get an email to pick it up/send it via regular mail. While things like Shapeways and 3D Hubs do exactly that, there's no store doing the same thing. So if you live in a big enough city with a few people listed on 3D Hubs you might be able to pick it up yourself, otherwise there's always the shipping delay.

      I've read about UPS teaming up with a company about doing exactly that, but I haven't heard anything since then.

    9. Re:Copy machine at stores by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Wow, "FU Maytag"? That's extremely similar to just "Maytag", they're bound to get sued!

    10. Re:Copy machine at stores by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      That's what I get for buying a Chinese knockoff.

    11. Re:Copy machine at stores by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      A precision part can be hard, but for a lot of other things you can just use a piece of sturdy plastic or metal and a Dremel.

    12. Re:Copy machine at stores by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's not so much grandma, it's the minimum-wage store clerk who has to be able to operate the machine and has to be able to produce the part in a sufficiently small amount of his time that it's cheaper to bring in the broken part and ask for a replacement than it is to replace the entire thing.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  7. Makerbot was the wrong messenger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Makerbot was a hype-machine that didn't have the technical competency to compensate for their artisan pricing model. They were a bunch of creatives that were very good at branding and marketing, but what few Hardware Engineers they held in their employ left the sinking ship when they pushed their shitty printhead disposable printhead to production thereby killing any remaining ounce of brand loyalty that existed from their laser cut balsa "cupcake" days.

    Their entire business model was built off of freeloading on the back of the Reprap community and when they finally needed to actually in-house talent to design for mass production(ie. the reprap community IP is useless at this scale) they didn't have the hiring skills or management talent to pull it off.

    Hackaday did a good forensic analysis/post-mortem on the company. I'm not sure how many shares they were able to pass off to the "old kids on the block" at Stratasys of Z-corp or whoever it was that bought a sizeable portion of their company, but I hope it wasn't too many because I hate to see these sorts of shenanigans pay off for douchebags.

    It didn't help that there were a billion "me too!" startups birth'ed from the same hype and froth which were all doomed to failure once China let the dust settle around the cheapest design to knockoff and undercut.

    All that said: Thingiverse is a nicely designed front-end/community and if we give it a couple more years, I suspect that some combination of WebVR/Project Sansar/HTC Vive/Augmented Reality games like Pokemon Go will eventually give "Thingiverse" a second life(in much the same way Mt.Gox found a new purpose as a Bitcoin ponzi scheme). That is: if their lawyers can keep it in their pants regarding how aggressive they are on expanding the Intellectual Property provision of the terms of use.

  8. The problems are many by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    And one of the key ones is that there are too many out there. With heatpads and without, with this or that plastic, and let's not get started on the various designs on how to get the filament on the ground. Many different designs, some looking rather ridiculous like something Dr. Strangelove would have invented. Yes, it still is a rather experimental thing, and it looks the part, too.

    And people don't want that. Especially with something they're supposed to pay a thousand bucks for or even more. What people want is something that "just works". And "just works", it sure doesn't. It needs tweaking and a lot of try and error to get it right.

    And in the end, what do you get out of it? You can print plastic parts. Provided you have the design files for them. Umm... yeah, that's ... well, ... why sugar coat it, it's bullshit. Unless there is something you can print that you can't buy MUCH cheaper, there is exactly no point to drop a thousand bucks and go through all the hassle on top of it.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:The problems are many by dontbgay · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Prusa Research has been pushing the technology closer to a consumer class appliance. They've taken care of the calibration headaches with their new bed leveling algorithm and heated bed design. The carriage is mounted rigid to the linesr rails, and the mk42 heated bed has more even distribution so there's less chance of a curled corner. They haven't open sourced their design so I'm waiting for that.

      All the criticisms of 3d printing are fair, but there's money being devoted to engineering those problems out as we speak. With exotic filaments like continuous strand carbon fiber and all the new ones coming out each week, it's just getting started. I give it 3-5 years before it's ready for mass market. I think the cost barrier is going to be an issue, but costs will come down with economies of scale.

      Prusa I3 mk2

      Here's a link to the i3 MK2. The videos are definitely worth watching. I have zero financial ties to this company. They definitely have s cool product.

      --
      Sig not found.
    2. Re:The problems are many by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      No doubt about it, but look at it: Frankly, it looks like something you'd expect in some cheesy 60s scifi movie. People are used to appliances that are closed black boxes that just spew out what they're supposed to produce, they don't want to see the wiring under the board.

      Yes, I do and yes, I agree, the Prusa is a great design and I love it every time I use it, but the topic here is the question why this didn't get mass appeal. And mass appeal is something gained and won by the way it looks. And this looks intimidating to the average Joe out there. It looks like something he won't get under control, and he's not going to shell out 740 bucks to find out whether he does.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:The problems are many by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      the technology is already in consumer class devices

      https://www.google.com/webhp?s...

      an as an owner of an prusa i3 I can safely say its a wonky slap it together in your garage pain in the ass, nothing about it is finished. From its limit switches being held in place by zip ties so they move whenever they get bumped by the head, to its dumbass firmware putting the print bed all the way to the back when its done forcing you to fiddle with a menu or reach in to a hot machine. If you dare move the print bed by hand the back EMF from the motors are so strong it can actually power the electronics so there's no electrical protection whatsoever

    4. Re:The problems are many by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Prusa Research has been pushing the technology closer to a consumer class appliance.

      The problem isn't the lack of a consumer class appliance. Never has been. The problem is lack of consumer need or even desire - and that's going to be difficult to overcome. Most people don't need something printed daily, or even weekly. A significant percentage don't need something printed even monthly. There's just no mass market to be had. Other than the maker market (the folks who make cool stuff just because), the only real market in the near term (a decade or so) are other hobbyists (model railroaders, dollhouse builders, etc...) and that market isn't that big and is going to be very tough to crack. 3D printers are nowhere near capable of producing all the components required (and won't be for a good while yet), and the cost of learning a new skillset on top the cash outlay will be a strong deterrent.
       
      The only market for 3D printers in the near term isn't the individual consumer (and likely won't ever be), but the small manufacturer serving niche communities.

    5. Re:The problems are many by dontbgay · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you have the o3, and not the i3 mk2

      --
      Sig not found.
  9. Where's my Von Neumann printer? by Jesus+H+Rolle · · Score: 4, Funny

    3D printers will one day be able to print copies of themselves, circuits and all. Minor variations in each iteration will be tested for improvement. Improved machines will share their specifications with others. Also there will be gay printers.

    1. Re:Where's my Von Neumann printer? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      3d printers have already been around for 30 years. thing is that you *can't* print anything and such a claim was and will be bullshit for the foreseeable future.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  10. The 2 factors that made me buy a 3d printer. by t0qer · · Score: 1

    1. There's a certain number where something becomes an impulse buy. For me and 3d printers that was $200. Ultimately I decided that with inflation, I spent more on my original NES set years and years ago.

    Makerbot could have killed it at that price, and still can if they can figure out how to do it at this price.

    2. The only hurdle past price is having the needed skills to create things in 3d. Printing other peoples stuff off the web gets old after a while. Luckily the 3d modeling software I taught myself to use really well can output STL files.

  11. Errr by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    Only a few years ago the thought of quickly drawing a 3D CAD design and having it delivered to your door for any reasonably time or cost was ludicrous. Nowadays it is a standard service offered all over the world. Not that this matters as I know several people with 3D printers which is why I haven't bought one.

    It may not have revolutionised society on a whole (it was never going to, that was just absurd), but it most certainly has revolutionised the hobby / DIY community.

    1. Re:Errr by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      It may not have revolutionised society on a whole (it was never going to, that was just absurd), but it most certainly has revolutionised the hobby / DIY community.

      Add to that the startup community. You can churn through variations on whatever it is you're designing really cheaply and quickly.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  12. It's the content. by Toasterboy · · Score: 1

    It's the content holding back the revolution. That, and printers are still pretty crappy and still improving quickly. Making original models from scratch has a steep learning curve...it takes skill to use 3D modelling software. Handheld 3D scanners aren't cheap enough or good enough to make it worth having a 3D printer for the average toaster user. (and even with a good scanner, you have to clean up the model and modify it for printing). So, while 3D printers are fantastic if you have the skills to use them, it's not easier or cheaper for an ordinary person to use one versus just buying a part produced by someone else. And that's not even getting into the nuances of different print materials your printer can use versus the quality industrially molded plastic or other processes put out for less cost. I personally use my printer to make wargames terrain (toys), but a) I have the skills, and b) wargames stuff is expensive enough that it's often (but not always) cheaper or easier to print stuff, and I can customize the prints. It's kind of like saying that CNC router tables and/or laser cutters are the bomb for woodworking. Yep, they are great, but at the end of the day it's just another tool with a relatively specialized use in crafting. When we have a process that can scan and print copies of an object, at 1 micron resolution, at the push of a button, in under an hour, then it'll really start taking off. Because until that point, it's not really consumer ready.

    1. Re:It's the content. by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      The technology for FDM or FFM printing has been around for 30 years. It isn't improving quickly. It has gone about as far as it can go. Other technologies are catching up and will eventually supplant FDM.

      OTOH, the price has come down because the Chinese have recognized that the majority of 3D printer buyers, especially in the USA, don't know what they're buying and will pay $200-300 for a piece of crap that sort of looks like a 3D printer but barely functions as one. The crappy, cheapo printers and the cheapskates (who care nothing about quality) that buy them have guaranteed that 3D printing will remain a specialist product for years to come.

      Makerbot didn't help by producing expensive printers that were crap. What is a noob supposed to think? If they spend $$$$ to buy a Maketbot they can expect problems and if they spend $$ to buy a cheapo pile-o-junk printer they can expect problems.

  13. Kind of obvious... by MindPrison · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here in Sweden a typical Makerbot would set you back 18K Sek (that's roughly 2000$) and for what? A slow, primitive - made out of wood 3D printer that looks like it was made by a bunch of tech kids at a high school.

    It also takes TONS of fiddling around, and the patience of a saint to even produce something useful with it. If you want something better like the Ultimaker 2 or 3, you pay around 4000-5000$ in Sweden, and most people aren't ready to fork out that kind of money. However, you can always gamble on cheap Chinese clones of the older makerbots, often made in plastic instead of wood or just coated wood for that matter, but the same enthusiast process involved, it is NOT just print and you're ready, it takes TONS of work. Lots of preparation, and you need to clean and prep. your 3D work before you hit the print button so to speak.

    I'm a 3D modeler, I've been working with 3D for over 20 years. I've YET to see a useful home-model that isn't just "look - I - printed - a - stock - model - ma!" tech demo. You'll actually be better off with a good CNC machine if you want to make prototypes on the cheap.

    But they're fun tho...if you have the time AND the money to burn on the countless rolls of ABS plastic you're gonna need.

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
    1. Re:Kind of obvious... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm a 3D modeler, I've been working with 3D for over 20 years. I've YET to see a useful home-model that isn't just "look - I - printed - a - stock - model - ma!" tech demo. You'll actually be better off with a good CNC machine if you want to make prototypes on the cheap.

      Yeah because those two things are entirely equivalent. I know my way around a manual lathe and mill well enough to not make an idiot of myself, and I've done a bit of CNC. I also happen to own a 3D printer and know my way round a CAD program well enough to take something simple enough all the way through to production. IOW, I'm a practicioner, not expert.

      And I know what you're saying is off the mark.

      Milling is a much greater pain in the arse than 3D printing. You just don't have the whole datumming/clamping problem that you have with 3D printing, for a start. I mean don't get me wrong, it's cool to make things out of metal, but christ flood coolant is a mess. A 3D printer is the kind of thing I can have up in my attic office/light workshop.

      It can sit there running while I do other stuff and I can leave it overnight. The stock is cheap, easy to get and available in a wide variety of forms (how well does a CNC mill work with soft rubber?). These days it's well enough set up and calibrated that unless I have an awkward part to make (e.g. small contact area, very large) I can pretty much hit print and go. It certainly takes far, far, FAR less prep than milling anything.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Kind of obvious... by daid303 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Makerbot pushed too soon and too hard. Their machines where not up to the expectations set by marketing.

      However, wood? That was years ago. We've progressed a lot. I'm not saying it's "one click and 100% reliability". But it's not as error prone as it was 3 years ago.

      I work for Ultimaker, and the Ultimaker 2+ (while a bit older) is still selling very strong due it's reliability. Prototyping, showcase models and jig&fixtures are the main markets where we see sales.

      I work at R&D, we have CNC machines next to our fleet of 3D printers to prototype as well, but they require a lot more expert knowledge, we have a full time operator on that. Unlike the 3D printers, that are even used by our reception desk, provide little to no noise, and no dust.

    3. Re:Kind of obvious... by labnet · · Score: 1

      I'm a 3D modeler, I've been working with 3D for over 20 years. I've YET to see a useful home-model that isn't just "look - I - printed - a - stock - model - ma!" tech demo. You'll actually be better off with a good CNC machine if you want to make prototypes on the cheap.

      We are an electronics company who have a makerbot and a big ass CNC mill (and some manual lathes).The makerbot gets used a couple of times a week by engineers making jigs, or prototypes for form fit and sometimes function. The CNC mill rarely gets used, as it takes a lot more skill and effort to use.
      So while I find the concept was overhyped for consumer use, it does find niche uses in businesses that actually need to design and make stuff.

      --
      46137
    4. Re:Kind of obvious... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      And lets be honest. If you really want to do CNC in anything but Al. Coolant is mandatory, even with Al for a nice finish.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    5. Re:Kind of obvious... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Nice pictures by the way. I wasn' thinking of a CNC router, so good point.

      I'm assuming that you have a CNC router, and you're essentially doing a bunch of extrusions for the shape?

      If so, yeah, a CNC router (or laser cutter) will beat a 3D printer for that application. For more complex 3D milling operations, clamping is a real problem, especially if you have to mill, re-clamp and re-datum several times during the operation.

      If you have super complex shapes for example:

      http://www.thingiverse.com/thi...

      CNC is right out. OK that's a bit excessive, but I did print one once my printer was set up, just to show off.

      So basically, can we agree that "it depends"? If you're doing planar cutouts to be assembled and have somewhere to put it, then a CNC router is definitely the machine of choice. But it looks like you have a garage and probably some sort of dust extraction.

      My 3D printer is used for things for which the CNC router wouldn't be especially suitable. And I have nowhere to put one either.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  14. Because it is useless by Lisandro · · Score: 1

    It's a 3D printer using flimsy plastic at a low resolution. Once the novelty wears of there's really little use for it.

    Wake when there's a metal powder fed 3D printer cheap enough to own. That will start a revolution.

    1. Re:Because it is useless by Rei · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I think of something made of plastic that I'd like to print maybe once a year. I think of something metal I'd like to print once every other week or so.

      --
      People said I was dumb, but I proved them.
    2. Re:Because it is useless by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      I routinely print pieces of laptops for my workplace. We are always losing hinge caps and dock covers.

  15. I love my Prusa i3. BUT. by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

    It was dirt cheap [around 300 dollars] and works AWESOME. There are some niggly downsides though and the biggest being the filament and the need for updated/upgraded extruders for multi color printing and the general handling of the filament in general kind of sucks. The other downside is the time it takes to print something and many people have no patients. If they can't say "Tea, Earl Grey" and poof it's there then screw that. I think it's still going to be a few years until they are ready for the masses. Once you can load 3 or 5 filaments to allow you to print the full color spectrem and it take FAR less time then it does now then the average joe will not want no need one of these. Lastly there is no really easy way to get the code from brain to platform. The "revolution" will come when your mom and pop can see a picture on a webpage and hit print and a little while later there you are. Bobs your uncle.

    1. Re:I love my Prusa i3. BUT. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      If they can't say "Tea, Earl Grey" and poof it's there then screw that.

      Considering even the Nutrimatic Drinks Dispenser on board the Heart of Gold had a really hard time with this, I think you're really asking for too much here.

  16. Like the Altair 8800 - it's the first of it's kind by LostMonk · · Score: 1

    The MakerBot is like the Altair 8800... It's works, most of the time, but it's complicated and slow, and it's produce is not that useful. and... what am I really supposed to do with it??

    The Altair 8800 came out in 1974, but it took another ~10 years for home computers to really take off... I'm sure that in less then 10 years we'll all have some kind of 3D printer at home.

  17. It's only plastic by evanh · · Score: 1

    I took one look at the consumable material and promptly forgot about the idea.

  18. I think the answer is obvious by DrXym · · Score: 2
    3D printing is still fiddly, complex, error-prone, expensive and slow.

    FDM style printers (the cheapest kind) require wrapping your head around calibration, nozzle diameters, temperatures, slices, alignments, supports, bed heating, the properties of PLA / ABS and all the rest. If you're lucky you'll set the printer going and hours later your efforts will yield some crudely finished single colour part. If you're unlucky you'll come back to discover something that has skewed left, warped on its base, or turned into some dante-esque spider's web that has stuck to everything.

    Maybe SLA is better? Well it certainly yields better parts for sure (assuming it cured properly, but then you also must have space for a wash station. And all the sticky, smelly gunk resins to work with that get on EVERYTHING. Beyond that you've got stuff like SLS, SLM etc where things get more interesting. But now we're talking industrial equipment with the costs and power consumption to match.

    I think the most likely form of 3D printing to take off is one which hasn't gotten much press - laminate printers. The price has to come down much more than where it is to be consumer attractive but I think that's viable.

    1. Re:I think the answer is obvious by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      3D printing is still fiddly, complex, error-prone, expensive and slow.

      This. We could stop here but let's not, I have more to say as well.

      FDM style printers (the cheapest kind) require wrapping your head around calibration, nozzle diameters, temperatures, slices, alignments, supports, bed heating, the properties of PLA / ABS and all the rest. If you're lucky you'll set the printer going and hours later your efforts will yield some crudely finished single colour part. If you're unlucky you'll come back to discover something that has skewed left, warped on its base, or turned into some dante-esque spider's web that has stuck to everything.

      #1 thing that should have been done/should be done to improve 3d printer uptake is working automatic bed leveling. AFAICT (and I am about to test this theory) the best way to accomplish this is with an inductive sensor designed for iron, detecting an aluminum print bed. Aluminum is pretty much the best base anyway, since glass can break all to crap while you are removing your print job. Inductive sensors literally cost five bucks and the hardware needed to interface one which isn't already present on e.g. RAMPS literally amounts to a grand total of one voltage divider, aka two resistors. IIRC 10k and 15k are typical, but whatever it takes to get the output signal down to 5v. It doesn't even matter whether you get one which is NO or NC because the software (Marlin, in my case) can detect either type of signal with correct configuration.

      The #2 thing that should have been done is more centralized sharing of print temperature settings for materials. After bed leveling, just finding working print settings is the biggest PITA. If you're not buying from someone who gives you some starting values to work with, then you have to go on a web safari quest to figure out where to start.

      Way down the list, probably, is eliminating all these stupid microswitches. Hall sensors are more reliable and cost little more. Even if you have to get them on eBay, whole PCBs with a sensor mounted on them are only about twice as expensive as microswitches worth buying.

      As for the single-material print job issue, this is the printer I've got, it's reasonably priced and its great sin seems to be a crap auto-leveler. I've got an inductive one in the mail. Deltas take most of the fiddly-ness out of the system at the cost of potentially dropping a hot extruder on your print job if you don't program them correctly. Which all comes back to your point... they should be set up better for the user. I am willing to do all this fooling around to get the thing working but the average user just wants to print and have something come out.

      I actually don't think having a crappy-looking single-color print job come out is what keeps most people uninterested in 3d printing at all, though. I think it's really all about the PITA factor. If you offered people a machine which was both cheap and easy to use, they'd jump all over it even if it only had typical resolution and speed and was limited to a couple of materials.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:I think the answer is obvious by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Reliable is more important than cheap.

      You need both for uptake. The average person won't spend more than about $300 for a gadget, and they'd rather spend $100. $300 is a pretty feasible price target for a small printer with one extruder. You could sell it without a heated bed at that price, and tell people to print only in PLA. There is high-temp PLA now which can be annealed in an oven and then handle somewhat higher temperatures, so that would cover most people's needs. Do a delta since it is cheaper to make it stable and avoid backlash, and because it uses only four sensors — ideally three hall for the X Y Z_MAX, and an inductive on the Z_MIN for bed leveling. $300 is not even a challenging price point; it can be even cheaper if you skip a display, which I don't actually think is that useful if you're not installing the printer in a remote location.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  19. it's all about progress. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Makerbot capitalized on a great idea that came from expired patents. It wasn't cutting edge stuff but it is part of the history of 3D printing revolution, much like the people with 2400 baud modems were part of the internet revolution. There have already been significant advancements in 3D printing (like SLS and SLM) but they are locked behind patents and a lack of inexpensive pulsed lasers. Once these issues can be addressed, there will be inexpensive SLS and SLM which can then easily be used for semiconductor fabrication. It wouldn't be anything cutting edge but being able to make micrometer ICs on the cheap would be a boon for everyone.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  20. The basic mistake by dnaumov · · Score: 2

    ...was making the assumption that public at large has the skills or the interest to make their own 3D models. The average person gets confused by their web browser and email client and 3D printer vendors expected them to master 3D modelling packages.

  21. Elephant in the room by janoc · · Score: 1

    This article once again ignores the elephant in the room - which is that 99.9% of consumers do not need to manufacture stuff at home.

    It is both easier, faster, cheaper and better quality to buy it at the store.

    It was the journalistic hype about a "revolution" that was supposed to come that fueled the rise of Makerbot and now those same journalists are crucifying the company for not being able to deliver on something the company didn't even originally target. It is ridiculous.

    That's not to say that Makerbot didn't commit a ton of mistakes and howlers, alienating both their customers and investors. But that has little to do with any "revolution".

    It is the same hype BS we see with autonomous cars, with AI, with virtual reality and many other things - journalists writing about things they barely understand based on corporate press releases and extrapolating far beyond of what the technology can actually do, because they don't understand neither the tech, nor basic economy.

    On the other hand, when looking beyond the uncritical hype and the notion that everyone will have a printer at home, 3D printing is fine and sound - there are plenty of other manufacturers than Makerbot who make good and affordable printers. However, it is now a mature technology that people who need it have and use already and the most of the rest doesn't really care about. Same as CNC machining or laser cutting or whatever. It is not the "new shiny" frontpage material anymore.

    1. Re:Elephant in the room by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      The "every small part you ever need at your fingertips at home" revolution didn't happen.... or maybe hasn't happened yet.

      But 3D printing is definitely revolutionary in the business world. People are just figuring out how to use the technology now, but it is already having an impact at the very high end... like SpaceX making parts of their super-draco engines with 3D printing. Or 3D printed automotive parts.

      Sure, we don't have laser-sintered makerbots available for $75 that can print any tool or part you need in your garage.... but it isn't like 3D printing is a bust.

    2. Re:Elephant in the room by tomhath · · Score: 1

      i.e. It is a part for a $300 vacuum cleaner which costs $40, but is $5? worth of plastic.

      Maybe some day Amazon will offer a 3-D printing service for parts like that. They would need access to the engineering specs of of your particular vacuum cleaner (good luck getting that). The consumer will need the ability to replace the broken part (maybe easy if it's just a piece of trim). And the price will need to be lower than the $40 that the manufacturer can offer (parts from the original production run probably cost pennies to manufacture). Add it all up and you might get a sale, or the consumer might decide to buy a new vacuum that's a prettier color. .

    3. Re:Elephant in the room by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      And you ignore that 3d printing is not about printing things you can buy.

      Where can I buy a Garmin to BMW GPS adapter plate? nowhere
      Where can I buy headphone hangers for my specific desk? nowhere
      Where can I buy a Death Star dice box for my friends that are Star Wars RPG lunatics? nowhere
      Where can I buy a switch delete plug for a 1979 civic? nowhere
      Where can I buy a China bolt style red 3Watt LED to Yamaha rear tail motorcycle mounts that look stock? nowhere.

      3d printing is for creating and printing things that you can not get, its for people that use their brains and create and then want to effortlessly get a plastic part.

      It has never been a "print out these things that you can just go buy" and I have no clue at all where you got such a horribly uninformed idea that it was.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:Elephant in the room by MrCodswallop · · Score: 1

      Quality would be the biggest elephant in the room? Injection molded thermoplastics offer vastly different and in most instances superior engineered mechanical properties as compared with 3D printed alternatives. I would not risk my Garmin on a 3D printed plastic adapter in actual use. Until then, its a cool toy to have for show and tell in schools and perhaps inspire the next generation of engineers.

    5. Re:Elephant in the room by tomhath · · Score: 1

      The elephant you're ignoring is that very few people need custom parts like that. And a very small percentage of those people would be able to design the part even if they wanted to.

    6. Re:Elephant in the room by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

      And the time on your hands. Are you gainfully employed? How much $/hour does your time work out to?

      Even if I do want a small plastic widget, I can't really think of anything wanted off the top of my head. Maybe I could use something, I suppose, but it's a small need. I don't enjoy designing small plastic widgets, and the cost of my own labor to design them is hundreds of dollars, and designing plastic widgets is not something I enjoy or care to build a skill at.

      So inevitably, I would just buy the designs off the internet...at which point the whole exercise becomes pointless. If I'm just going to buy designs anyway, why not buy the plastic widget off Amazon or EBay? I can do that know, it's cheap, and after shipping will usually work out to $5-$10.

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  22. 3D editing is hard by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 2

    Also: 3D editing is hard on a 2D screen with primarily 2D input devices. It will probably always be hard until we get really good Brain-Computer Interfaces.

    1. Re:3D editing is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No it isnt. You just need good tools. The stuff the fortune 500s use works quite well.

      I love my pirate CATIA seat. Works great with my 3d printer.
      The real issue is the slicer software out there. Short of programming the GCode by hand (which I can do, but dont want to) the software I use to design only has subtractive manufacturing CAM, not additive manufacturing CAM. Means I have to use STL files, and try to work around the limitations of the splicers that are out there.

    2. Re:3D editing is hard by MrCodswallop · · Score: 1

      Unigraphics NX and its predecessors coupled with a decent 6 DOF device, 3D modeling is actually a breeze. Relatively high barrier entry to hardware and software had always been the major handicap to 3D CAD/CAM. We're decades away from practical enthusiast level additive 3D prototyping.

    3. Re:3D editing is hard by swb · · Score: 1

      I think 3D modeling software is a big reason 3D printing hasn't been the home revolution.

      I've been using computer based 2D drawing software since MacDraw in the 1980s and have used it for drafting home improvement projects, woodworking projects and floor plans. I've downloaded Sketch-Up a few times and always found myself baffled quite quickly, even tinkering with generic rectilinear shapes.

      And even drawing some boxes or other regular geometric shapes doesn't get you very fair in a world of tapered curves, irregular shapes, etc, let alone the same needing accurate scale and tolerances down to the millimeter.

      And it's not that it's impossible, either, but it's got a wicked learning curve over 2D just doing the drawings let alone the phase where you have to consider how you design will actually be output by the thing making it.

      Strangely it's almost the blade-and-razor model in reverse. In theory, they should give you the razor handle (the easy to learn 3D design software) for free so that you'll buy the 3D printer and supplies, but I suspect that in terms of cost, the easy to use 3D modeling software is the actual expensive part and the 3D printer should be the cheap part. It's kind of like 2D design software -- an annual contract for Adobe Creative Cloud is almost more expensive than a decent color laser printer.

    4. Re:3D editing is hard by heson · · Score: 1

      For me it is way faster to program the objects in scad than trying to understand how a CAD UI works.

  23. not cost by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    My monoprice mini was under $200.

    3d printing still takes a LOT of education and skill. and the bulk of the population does not want to bother with learning and tinkering

    THAT is the real reason.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:not cost by delt0r · · Score: 1

      most of the public don't want to make or fix anything either. Right tool for the job. It is not like printing where everyone has a use, even a need for it. While even printing a spare "part" when they wouldn't even buy and install said part is just not something most want to do.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  24. CnC makes more sense right now by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    CNC machines more cheaply build higher quality parts given current technology. They can work with a wider range of materials. They are easier to maintain. They are just better.

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    1. Re:CnC makes more sense right now by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      They are just better.

      I've yet to find someone say I love my 3D printer but I wish I needed to wear ear plugs while using it, or watch it constantly, or have any minor mistake cost lots of money, or clean up an incredible mess, or have to use flushing oil to keep the cutting head going.

      Honestly comparing a 3D printer to a CNC machine is absolutely absurd. They are two very different things with very different purposes and very different positives and negatives. Then only appropriate answer to CNC or 3D printer is "both".

      You may as well say get a powerdrill instead of a hammer. They are just better.

    2. Re:CnC makes more sense right now by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      If I had to choose one of the two... I would be able to do that... and if X isn't doing it for people, they might consider Y.

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    3. Re:CnC makes more sense right now by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      for 1000 dollars I can buy a CNC machine that can make good parts that a person can use in their home right now without a lot of nonsense. The 3d printers generally can only make very small low quality plastic parts around that price point.

      You want to make tiny yoda heads... buy the 3d printer that makes plastic yoda heads. Its not the future. That's a toy.

      Now a proper 3d printer that can make more sophisticated parts is a different story but from what I've seen those are about 15k to 80k. Where as again, there are 1000 dollar CnC machines that can make furniture etc.

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    4. Re:CnC makes more sense right now by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I've yet to find someone say I love my 3D printer but I wish I needed to wear ear plugs while using it, or watch it constantly, or have any minor mistake cost lots of money, or clean up an incredible mess, or have to use flushing oil to keep the cutting head going.

      I 100% agree. It strikes me that the people who declare "CNC is better" have no experience of 3D printers, mills OR CNC as far as I can tell. They might be talking about CNC routers, so you don't need cutting oil, but holy jesus do those things make a lot of wood dust. And noise. And dust. And noise.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:CnC makes more sense right now by delt0r · · Score: 1

      and cost $10000 for a cheap one and need to be bolted to the floor. Have flood coolant and generally should only be a workshop.

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      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    6. Re:CnC makes more sense right now by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      https://www.inventables.com/te...

      There are a few other examples... they're roughly in the same price range of the 3d printers that print plastic crap. And they are manageable by hobbyists.

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    7. Re:CnC makes more sense right now by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      1st, don't be pedantic. We're talking about the general price range of a 3d printer.

      2nd, https://shop.carbide3d.com/col...

      There you go. And if you're going to be a twit about the last 99 dollars, consider that that's for the new model. The last model is cheaper because its the elder model and is quite able to do the job.

      3rd, dust collection is something the user is supposed to manage with a dust buster. This is a hobbyist machine. That said, they have plans and attachments that provide that feature for very little if you want that.

      4th, as to it being louder, it is not a 3d printer... it is a CNC machine. You want a quiet CNC machine? This complaint is autistic. The point is functionality. You want to make tiny plastic yoda heads? Do it. I was pointing out that CNC machines are able to make more useful things at the same price point and therefore are the correct path. Unless you want tiny plastic yoda heads. in which case, congrats... that is what you get.

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  25. Because They Killed It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They didn't start a revolution, they killed one. Almost all of the consumer 3D printing tech came out of the RepRap project. All the companies grabbed RepRap's open sourced designs and research, added marketing, and then killed progress. Most companies don't invest in research, they invest in fooling people into buying their products and attacking competitors. As a donation funded business, RepRap quickly died under the weight of all those startups promising the world and none of those guys have the foresight to do any research (nor the funds). Well some of the more business savvy guys have, but they're busying locking up everything behind patents. The consumer 3D printing industry is now dying faster than its growing. Larger business are grabbing and locking it up. The little guys are dead or dying and the industry is turning into a patent mine field. Designers are doing their best to strengthen IP protections too.

  26. It's just not time yet by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What is needed is a more expensive device that can be put into corner shops that prints high quality metal parts and maybe ceramics.

    What is needed is a not-very expensive device that can be put into the home that prints high quality metal parts, plastics, ceramics and electronics.

    FTFY

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:It's just not time yet by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I'd settle for just high strength hard plastics.

    2. Re:It's just not time yet by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It should also make Earl Grey Tea.
      Hot, of course.

    3. Re:It's just not time yet by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      You can buy filament which you bake after printing, which makes it much stronger - add to that the composite filaments you can now get, and you can print some pretty strong components.

    4. Re:It's just not time yet by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What is needed is a not-very expensive device that can be put into the home that prints high quality metal parts, plastics, ceramics and electronics.

      FTFY

      No, the $1000 printer that most of us can afford for the home is going to be good for nothing but small and flimsy PLA widgets. But now imagine being able to upload your design to a $25K commercial printer that works in metal or ceramic, and being able to pick up the piece after work. NOW it's getting to be useful.

    5. Re:It's just not time yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You seem to be describing Shapeways, aside from the detail of "picking up the piece after work". (They instead want to mail it to you when it's done, and it can take more than a few hours.)

    6. Re:It's just not time yet by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      You seem to be describing Shapeways, aside from the detail of "picking up the piece after work". (They instead want to mail it to you when it's done, and it can take more than a few hours.)

      1 to 2 weeks in my experience. It's worked well for me though and I'll be using them again.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    7. Re:It's just not time yet by maestroX · · Score: 1

      I'd like a cheap point welder for metal.

    8. Re:It's just not time yet by ChatHuant · · Score: 1

      But you know you'll end up with a liquid that's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea...

    9. Re:It's just not time yet by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      It's either Tea or No Tea.

      The difference? Usually harmless.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    10. Re:It's just not time yet by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      What is needed is a free device that can magically create whatever part you need. And unicorns.

    11. Re:It's just not time yet by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      imagine being able to upload your design to a $25K commercial printer that works in metal or ceramic

      Unfortunately the metal cartridge costs $100K and has to be replaced every month.

      And then there's the intern who spends half an hour Googling to figure out what "PC LOAD CLAY" means...

    12. Re: It's just not time yet by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I used their service to make things which do not exist. I design them in OpenSCAD and get them to make it. You can have them make it faster but that costs more. If you can wait the extra time, you save some money relative to the faster service.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    13. Re:It's just not time yet by thomn8r · · Score: 1

      I'd like a cheap point welder for metal.

      http://www.harborfreight.com/w...

  27. Re: Like the Altair 8800 - it's the first of it's by grumling · · Score: 1

    Actually CP/M ran just fine on the Altair 8800 and other S-100 bus computers, around 1975 or so (the first version of CP/M was released in 1974, but Wikipedia isn't clear as to what it ran on when). There were lots of different designs for personal computers, mostly built around the S-100 bus, and many of them were used by small businesses and hobbyist types even long after the first home computers hit the mass market.

    But you're right, the Apple ][ was a new concept entirely. And by the time Atari, Commodore and the rest got into mass production the market changed. I think that the 3d printer world is in that same place as early PCs were in the late 1970s, still waiting for a great efficient design and mass market appeal. Unfortunately everyone thinks they're the next "the two Steves."

    --
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  28. We need a parts database for stuff. by w3woody · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One place where I see a 3D printer being of use is when repairing things with hard-to-obtain parts. But of course you can't do this unless you have a database of parts you can print for the thing you are repairing. So like MP3 players (which did not explode until there was a database of downloadable songs that you could buy for 99 cents), we need a database of 3D printable parts for things like dishwashing machines and refrigerators and the like which can be downloaded for relatively cheap and printed on your printer which can be used to fix the broken component.

    Of course not all parts can be replaced like this. But certainly there are plenty of components (such as the plastic drive gears in a garage door opener) which can be printed and replaced by consumers.

    At the higher end I can see companies like auto repair shops using professional or pro-consumer level printers for printing harder, and more refined components for auto repairs, and even using 3D subtractive technologies (like CAD-driven lathes and CAD-driven milling machines) for making metal components which fail that do not require tight tolerances.

    I think where things like the MakerBot gadget failed was that it seemed to be oriented around the idea that everyone could design their own components. But even in today's environment there are far fewer mechanical engineers and designers than folks like that give credit for.

    1. Re:We need a parts database for stuff. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      But certainly there are plenty of components (such as the plastic drive gears in a garage door opener) which can be printed and replaced by consumers.

      And how often does the average consumer need to print out weird parts? (And how many of them actually have the skills, experience, and tools to make use of them?)
       
        That is the fundamental limitation of 3D printing - the average consumer doesn't have significant need and/or the relevant skills. The "needs" 3D enthusiasts keep positing will enable the consumer (mass market) adoption are in fact edge cases.

  29. No...it's fundamentally something else... by Shoten · · Score: 2

    For Makerbot to assume that they would revolutionize the world by selling a 3D printer at a low cost point is like someone assuming that houses will suddenly become super-cheap because they teach widespread classes on how to nail 2x4s together with a hammer and nails.

    Let's start with the first problem...so Suzy Homemaker buys a 3D printer and brings it home to her family. Now what? "oh, it can make stuff." How do you define that 'stuff?' You have to design it, using 3D software...ah, whoops. Hm, bit of a learning curve there...and even if their son Bobby is plenty good with computers, you end up with a child who has the technical knowledge and adults who own the use cases...and let's face it, in almost no family is anyone good at packaging either the knowledge or the use cases so that others could make use of them. So you end up with parents who have a vague idea of what they would like but can't communicate it, and a kid who can probably figure things out but doesn't know how to teach it. (This is the "knowing how to build framing doesn't mean you have a design for a house to work from" part of the analogy.)

    Then, let's look at the limitations...the material can only do certain things. You can basically make little plastic widgets. (This is the "houses have a lot more than 2x4s in them" part of the analogy.) You can't replicate a broken part very easily either...you're kind of focused down into a world where you're going to have to invent things for this to be useful. So add another necessary skill set to Suzy Homemaker's family for this whole thing to work.

    I think MakerBot was a success...just not the kind of success they thought they would be. They helped put 3D printing on the map for Suzy Homemaker. People have gone into Home Depot and watched 3D printers at work, creating things...that's not a small accomplishment. The price of printing continues to come down, even for technologies that remain out of reach but are far more useful (being able to 3D print with metal is very important if you want to be real about this, because only toys are only made of plastic) and now the public is a bit better-prepared for a near future where they actually *can* print things. And now, there's an awareness that the printers are just the razor blade handles...and the designs are the razor blades. Once truly useful printing becomes accessible, there will be business activity that addresses that problem. I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the same kind of shift that Eli Whitney created when he began the manufacture of devices that had interchangeable parts.

    The moral of the story: massive shifts in society resulting from singular technologies are, in essence, Black Swan events. You cannot reliably predict them, no matter how badly you want VCs to give you money so that you can become the next Apple/Google/Microsoft/Facebook billionaires. Aim for major increments of change, and your business plans will be more viable.

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  30. What would you make? by nine-times · · Score: 2

    I think the single biggest problem with 3D printing is that most people don't have any idea what they would use it for. It's a neat concept, and it does seem useful that you could create a custom-made little plastic doodad of any specifications you want. The idea of being able to share designs seems to also have potential. Still, if someone gave me a 3D printer for free, I can't think of what I would use it for.

    Maybe I just don't have enough imagination, but I think most of the population probably has even less than I do. There are only so many little plastic pieces of junk I need in my life. I think I'd get more use out of an automated loom that could make clothes, or an automated printer/binder that could make books. Or a system that made custom Ikea pieces for assembling custom furniture. I suppose you could make plastic furniture with a big enough 3D printer, but I don't want plastic furniture-- or a big enough 3D printer for that.

    I've read through articles online about all the useful things you could make with your 3D printer. It's always stuff like book ends or door stops. Basically stuff that I don't really need, but if I did, the same purpose could be served by a small rock.

    1. Re:What would you make? by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      Of course it would take more than one person. But he sounds like the center of a place that could maintain civilization, on a level much higher than "caveman". 8-)

    2. Re:What would you make? by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      ... I think I'd get more use out of an automated loom that could make clothes, or an automated printer/binder that could make books. Or a system that made custom Ikea pieces for assembling custom furniture. ...

      I think the place for the 3D Printer is repair parts for the Automated Loom and Printer/Binder. Parts that would break and you could not get new parts.
      But not everyone would need one.

      Of course, some day those will all be one machine, just like phone and camera and net browser are all one machine now.
      Note, though, that better models of those can still be bought separatly.

  31. MakerBot is the C64 of Matter Compilers by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    The answer to this question is quite obvious to me: MakerBot is to Matter Compiling (see "The Diamond Age" from Neal Stephenson) what the C64 is to the Smartphones we carry around with uns today, that resemble some distant spacey science-fition vision of a 19981 Cray 2 supercomputer for your pocket and that cost roughly a days salary of a regular worker today in 2016.

    MakerBot marks the beginning of a revolution, not the revolution itself.

    Like Commodore is basically just some brandname used on some products no one buys today, it marks for many of use the beginning of commodity computing. We knew what it meant back then, but very very few people outside of the micro computer faszination could even dream about the high-res touchscreens and flat, light, sturdy, long-running and dirt cheap supercomputers we have today.

    MakerBot could very well be long dead when, in 25 years or so, when 3D printing a device is better and cheaper than mass-production today and is as common as smartphones are today. It's the way technological developmennt happens.

    My 2 cents.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  32. MakerBot was most hyped, not first, best, cheapest by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I initially preordered a Thing-O-Matic, but was quickly warned off while waiting for it to cancel and get one of the many great RepRap kits available. I'm glad I did. Anyone that spent more than an hour or two a week trying to 3D print stuff quickly came to realize that MakerBot printers were to be avoided. They cost more and were less capable than most of the alternatives. When people can 3D-print their own custom designs and thereby rapidly improve existing 3D printer designs, mass-producing printers on a long product life cycle is a losing proposition. As far as I can tell they only got as far as they did on Bre Pettis' cult of personality and hype. While Thingiverse is handy it is/was also subject to their whims and censorship, and they blocked any weapons or weapon parts from being uploaded there, highlighting the need for other methods of sharing 3D printing designs. All I can say in conclusion is good riddance to MakerBot, long live 3D printing.

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  33. 3D printing hype was always bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A bunch of naive, excitable software nerds briefly touched some hardware, and not knowing how complex real-world objects are, they thought hardware was as simple as software.

    Idiots. You CAN NOT compare information processing to the real world! Even a C64 will give you the right answers to math questions, but a paper airplane will never fly at the speed of sound no matter how excited you get!

    You're not colonizing space or mining asteroids either, you dummies.

    1. Re:3D printing hype was always bullshit by Leslie43 · · Score: 1

      Actually, 3d printing is changing how we manufacture things almost as much as CAD and CNC did when they were brought in. If you manufacturer hard objects and you haven't at least looked into 3d printing, you're years behind your competition.

      Most human creations are subsonic and not very exciting, you don't have to travel faster than sound or colonize Mars to change the world. More to your point though, they are talking about sending a 3d printer to Mars and use it to build the habitats prior to colonization.

  34. Porn by ghoul · · Score: 1

    Porn has driven the progress of the WWW. Porn sites have been early adaptors of almost every web technology and they have stress tested every tech.
    The progress of 3D tech will progress on the printing of sex toys (many people are embaressed to buy sex toys and would rather print the same)

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  35. the technology isn't there yet by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    It had to introduce millions of people to the wonders of 3D printing, and then convince them to shell out more than $1,000 for a machine. It also had to develop the technology fast enough to keep its customers happy. Those two tasks were too much for the fledgling company

    3D printing just isn't there yet. You can make small plastic objects out of one or two materials, the surfaces are rough, and that's if you're lucky and the print doesn't fail (MakerBot is worse than many others in that way). It's also expensive and slow. And 3D printed objects are competing with $0.02 mass produced plastic stuff from China.

    So, it's not that MakerBot somehow wasn't up to the task, it's that the technology that isn't ready for mass market use yet.

  36. Re: Like the Altair 8800 - it's the first of it's by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 1

    "But you're right, the Apple ][ was a new concept entirely. And by the time Atari, Commodore and the rest got into mass production the market changed."

    What kind of revisionist bullshit is this? Commodore was already mass producing by the time the Apple 2 came along. And yes, I'm calling it the Apple 2 to rankle you.

    --
    Mostly random stuff.
  37. Re: Like the Altair 8800 - it's the first of it's by grumling · · Score: 1

    Yep, you're right. Commodore had the PETs and CBM machines. Oh, but they were built after Commodore got a demo of an Apple 2 (happy?) prototype:

    "In September 1976 Peddle got a demonstration of Jobs and Wozniak's Apple II prototype, when Jobs was offering to sell it to Commodore, but Commodore considered Jobs' offer too expensive.[3]"

    There was a lot of work being done in parallel. That's what happens when new chips are introduced.

    --
    "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  38. "You can make anything you need." by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    The issue is, that I cannot 3D print a working 4TB SATA hard drive and even if, it will be much more expensive than buying one already made. If they would have found out a way to 3D print a girlfriend the nerds would have been all over it.

  39. I think I see the problem by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    MakerBot had to pull off two very different coups.
    >>> It had to introduce millions of people to the wonders of 3D printing,
    >>> and then convince them to shell out more than $1,000 for a machine.
    >>> It also had to develop the technology fast enough to keep its customers happy.
    Those two tasks were too much for the fledgling company.

    1+1+1 = 2

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  40. Cool, glow-in-the-dark plastic skulls vs AR-15 by BozoForPresident · · Score: 2

    Maybe the Makers shouldn't have been so pissy about supporting projects such as Ghost Gunner... ReasonTV interview with Cody Wilson https://www.youtube.com/watch?... https://ghostgunner.net/produc...

  41. The Real Revolution by DMJC · · Score: 1

    Metalicarap is the real 3D printing revolution: http://reprap.org/wiki/Metalic... It can print solar panels which means it can power itself. It can double as an electron microscope, and importantly it can refine, recycle and print metals. When complete Metalicarap is going to disrupt the entire world. The plastic 3D printers were never going to be more than toys. Eventually you might have both in your house, but the Metal 3D printers are the real game changers.

  42. Bre petis was a salesman. by Leslie43 · · Score: 1

    Maybe he himself believed it, but regardless, there was ZERO chance Makerbot was going to start a revolution.

    A key problem is demographics, which apparently no one (including Stratsys and 3D systems) bothered to pay attention to, the bottom line is that not everyone is a maker. For the price of a Makerbot you can build a pretty decent garage woodshop, or buy a (cheap) dekstop CNC mill, but does the average person have one? No, because most people don't have the time, skill or willpower to actually do it.

  43. It needs a killer app. by Sark666 · · Score: 1

    And the killer app would be shoes. Imagine being able to print custom running shoes exactly to the size/shape of your foot.

    Or at least be able to print foamy insoles and have that new shoe feeling every month.

    1. Re:It needs a killer app. by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      And the killer app would be shoes. Imagine being able to print custom running shoes exactly to the size/shape of your foot.

      Or at least be able to print foamy insoles and have that new shoe feeling every month.

      That's an excellent idea. It is something that would maybe justify the machine.

      Microcomputers, and computers in wide use, were launched by the first "killer app", computerized spreadsheets. Supercalc, Visicalc, long before microsoft had anything but Basic. All the ideas before that were like the current ideas for 3D Printers, mostly toys.

      The term "Killer app" was first used by the people trying to make the next big launch, after that. But it was not so easy.

  44. You lack imagination by Leslie43 · · Score: 1

    Besides the fact you can print more than just "plastic", many times in manufacturing you use a tool to make the tools you need. This may be a jig or it can even be a mold which can be used to create something from plastic, resin, chocolate, ceramics, wax, or even metal.

    3d printers are not a one stop manufacturing facility, it's a tool in your workshop.

  45. I blame the sales pitch by evanh · · Score: 1

    It certainly seemed to me, from the all the talk, it was meant to do absolutely everything. When I realised it couldn't make a System-on-Chip I figured someone was bullshitting.

  46. "Just works" won't happen soon by burbilog · · Score: 1

    And people don't want that. Especially with something they're supposed to pay a thousand bucks for or even more. What people want is something that "just works". And "just works", it sure doesn't. It needs tweaking and a lot of try and error to get it right.

    There are two key problems that have to be solved before FDM printers obtain "just works" ability:

    1. You really can't fight warping problems without heated chamber! All heatbeds, PEI sheets & co are just bandaids. But heated chamber is patented and that insane patent expires in 2019 I think. Then we'll see much better quality prints.

    2. Second problem is much worse. Even the same plastic from the same manufacturer but of different color requires seriously different tuning. You can't obtain "just works" without tight control on everything: machine, plastic source, slicer... and you know what happens then: manufacturer can't resist jacking up price to insane levels, using chips, etc, etc.

    While #1 problem is going away within a few years, #2 is huge and can't be solved without some kind of manufacturer-independent filament profile standard and good luck designing that.

  47. Cheap is better than nothing by burbilog · · Score: 1

    OTOH, the price has come down because the Chinese have recognized that the majority of 3D printer buyers, especially in the USA, don't know what they're buying and will pay $200-300 for a piece of crap that sort of looks like a 3D printer but barely functions as one. The crappy, cheapo printers and the cheapskates (who care nothing about quality) that buy them have guaranteed that 3D printing will remain a specialist product for years to come.

    No. Don't forget that the world is not flat and not everyone has the money to buy non-cheap stuff. Most people from around the world don't have the luxury of choosing between good and crap, there is only choice between crap and nothing. There IS huge demand for lower price and chinese follow it, that's all. Just look at aliexpress orders, there are buyers from all parts of the world.

    Recently I printed a very complicated start lever for my friend's chainsaw on my crappy $200 anet printer and it saved him from buying another chainsaw (replacement part is more expensive than chainsaw). Another case were some clips for an old Soviet fridge. Printer quality was more than enough to do these jobs.

    Yes, printer quality is crap, acrylic parts cracked and half of year later anet board went bad and I had to replace it with standard arduino/ramps sandwich. Yet, it was light years better than fucking NOTHING, because I don't live in USA and I don't have usanian salary to buy "non-cheap" stuff (which is often same stuff from chinese, just rebranded and may be little tested).

  48. There's a whole cottage industry of printers by Not-a-Neg · · Score: 1

    I never bought a 3D printer myself, they are too expensive and I could not think of enough uses for one. Instead, twice I have used Thingverse to find something that fit my needs and ordered the item to be printed and mailed to me. There is a cottage industry of people with 3D printers that print the item and mail it to the end-customer. Both items combined cost less than $50 and that's with shipping. Delivery took an average of 4 days from the date of order.

    For those curious, the 2 items I ordered are:
    Cubicle Phone Mount:
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thi...

    Mini Desk Fan (turns a 120mm fan into a personal cooling fan):
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thi...

    --
    -==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
  49. What do you print? by phorm · · Score: 1

    I won a 3d printer (M3D) at a conference as a door prize. The big issue is: what to print, and how do you get it into a format for printing. For most stuff I've seen, you need a 3d scanner or something that can get [existing thing] into software to create [new thing].

    I've recently been trying to build a case for my new phone because:
    a) It would be cool to have a custom case
    and
    b) Cases for Zenfone 3 are not so common

    Thus far I've had some luck scanning the phone to image, building the layers as 2d templates, and then converting to SVG in Inkscape. However, going to Inkscape to anything else is pretty much a f*** up as it does not map the dimensions properly, so my SVG ends up being imported as 2.335x (or whatever) the size of the actual item.

    Apart from that, I've been using Octoprint and the M33-Fio module for actual printing, which works quite nicely. The next issue is that my tray is only 5"x5"x5" so a lot of items end up being too big. The software has the ability to "cut" meshes into pieces but it would be cool if it could do so in a way that wasn't straight so the joints could lock together better.

  50. A Black Art by vanyel · · Score: 1

    I recently dipped into the 3D printing world with a $300 printer, and while it's a low end printer, from what I've read, the issues are common: getting a print to stick and work is the blackest of arts. It's a complex, finicky process to go from design (which most software is complex and non-intuitive; so far, I've found tinkercad to be the best, albeit limited), to slicing (generating the printing commands - Simplify3D seems to be a lot better than the free options) to actually getting the printer to work (the object has to stay stuck to the bed until it's done, and the printer feed must not gum up). And it's slow. For something reasonably sized (e.g. a 100mm open cube), it can take half a day to print. It's a lot of fun when it works, but the value is primarily with people doing lots of real prototyping of small objects.

  51. Leading edge by cwsumner · · Score: 1

    There is a reason that the leading edge of technology is called the "Bleeding Edge".

  52. It will come, but more infrastructure is needed by rhyous · · Score: 1

    Remember when the Palm was going to revolutionize the worlds. Then it didn't. Except it did, just not as a Palm device, but as the Smart Phone which is a Palm + Phone + Touch Screen + Wifi.

    There was not 3g/4g when Palm came out. There weren't great touch screens. Processors sucked. How Palm failed to be the first Smart Phone baffles me to this day.

    Similarly, MakerBot and Dremmel and others are around. You can print stuff. The database is growing. But the big money savers are in parts and for parts you need companies to buy in. They need to start manufacturing using 3D printers so they can export their parts in 3D. You buy the model instead of the part.
    #1. Appliance companies
    #2. Car companies - For plastic Car parts

    Next, you need to decrease printing time. 16 hours for a descent print isn't fast enough.

    Also, we need printers that don't only use plastic.

    Where is the metal printer that can print me a new car part that is metal?
    Where is the printer that can print me custom chrome wheels?
    Where is the printer that can just consume dirt (earth, silica, etc), and print bricks I can build a house with? So I can build house structures with less material cost.
    Where is the printer that can print glass? Then I can print homes for the homeless. I can print glass green house in the Sahara desert and plant food there protected from the sand storms. I can also print homes and green houses on the Moon and Mars without sending people up there.

    3D printing *is* revolutionary technology. Now that we *can* do it, we need get to where we can do it usefully.