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Twitter Cut Out of Trump Tech Meeting Over Failed Emoji Deal, Says Report (politico.com)

According to Politico, Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey was "bounced" from Wednesday's meeting between tech executives and President-elect Donald Trump in retribution for refusing during the campaign to allow an emoji version of the hashtag #CrookedHillary. Trump's adviser Sean Spicer denied the report, saying "the conference table was only so big." Politico reports: Twitter was one of the few major U.S. tech companies not represented at Wednesday afternoon's Trump Tower meeting attended by, among others, Apple's Tim Cook, Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg, and Tesla's Elon Musk -- an omission all the more striking because of Trump's heavy dependence on the Twitter platform. Trump's campaign also made a $5 million deal with Twitter before the election, in which the campaign committed "to spending a certain amount on advertising and in exchange receive discounts, perks, and custom solutions," the campaign's director of digital advertising and fund raising, Gary Coby, wrote in a Medium post last month. So the campaign objected when the company refused to allow the anti-Clinton emoji. Coby wrote that Dorsey personally intervened to block the Trump operation from deploying the emoji, which would have shown, in various renderings, small bags of money being given away or stolen. That emoji would have been offered to users as a replacement for the hashtag #CrookedHillary, a preferred Trump insult for his Democratic opponent. Spicer also objected to the company's refusal, telling the Washington Examiner in October that "while Twitter claims to be a venue that promotes the free exchange of ideas, it's clear that it's leadership's left wing ideology literally trumps that." POLITICO's source said Spicer, who's also the Republican National Committee spokesman, was the one who made the call to refuse an invitation to Dorsey or other Twitter executives to Wednesday's meeting.

551 comments

  1. #EmojiLivesMatter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    #EmojiLivesMatter

  2. It seems like an exaggerated story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Jeff Bezos' presence is probably a much bigger news..

    But it would have been a funny emoji...

    1. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He did not look too enthused though.

    2. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by unixisc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, I'm surprised that Bezos was invited, given the role that the WaPo played during the election, and also given the fact that his company has contributed in no small way to the massive unemployment, which is Trump's pet foe in the new administration

    3. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well you have to remember that Trumps campaign never gave a fuck about whats real since to them it was just a competition and now that the competition has been won it doesn't matter how they did it or what they did about it.

      Why not a pizzagate emoji showing hillary selling children in a pizza place? really the whole campaign just shows how little either sides gives a fuck, how gullible americans are and how little republicans even care, some going on record to say that it doesn't matter how they won or if they used fake news. this doesn't really bode that well for the next election if the stage is set for the campaigns to just spew whatever shit they want.

      is Trump going to put Hillary in prison? of course not. that was just a "joke" or whatever to win the thing.

      and come on, trump is sucking musks dick as well - despite musk being a prime beneficiary of strict direct car co2 taxes (without them the teslas would be unfeasible for their target market as they would be comparably same price as a ferrari).

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'm surprised that Bezos was invited, given the role that the WaPo played during the election, and also given the fact that his company has contributed in no small way to the massive unemployment, which is Trump's pet foe in the new administration

      LOL, he thinks Trump gives a damn about unemployment.

    5. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by uohcicds · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Looking at the pictures, no one looked delighted to be there. Tim Cook in particular looked like he been asked to eat week-old dog shit, to be frank. Attendance is a necssary evil, like your mother making you take cod liver oil to "keep you regular" when you were a kid These could be the opening shots in a long and messy few years, as tech companies rub up against a thin-skinned and authoritarian lower order primate. But hey, he's a smart guy. Who needs intelligence briefings, eh? Not like that dumb Obama guy. Sad!

      --
      It's not you: I'm just this horrifically socially awkward with everybody.
    6. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by Hylandr · · Score: 0, Troll

      There is nothing Trump will be capable of doing that would appease the terminally offended.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    7. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by iserlohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Trump *is* appeasing the terminally offended. They are the Trump supporters.

    8. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by FyRE666 · · Score: 0

      Well he got them to vote for him...

    9. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by gtall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You aren't giving Trump the respect deserving of a Sgt. Bilko. From Trump's perspective, anything these companies do to increase employment in the U.S. will now be claimed by Trump as his win, and anything they do that he doesn't like he'll claim as breaking their "agreement" with him, regardless of whether there is an agreement or not. His followers will blindly believe what he tells them.

      The CEOs were stupid to feed the troll, they'll now get screwed by him whenever it suits him.

    10. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      and now that the competition has been won it doesn't matter how they did it or what they did about it.

      Guess that's why WAPO was as the forefront of pushing the fake news bullshit right? Then even had to go as far as to claim well, no ... we really didn't mean they were fake news. Even though their article where they claimed all those sites were "fake news" weren't, and they had to scramble all over themselves along with the site they were pushing and started disavowing it. Notice how it's now suddenly started dropping off the radar?

      But just to have some fun, you can now wait and see what happens in detroit. Since 37% of their voting machines had more votes then actual ballots in the box. Detroit if you remember went to Clinton, and now there is an investigation being launched into vote tampering.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    11. Re: It seems like an exaggerated story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whhoooshhhhh!

      Try reading that again. Don't worry. You'll get it eventually.

    12. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well you have to remember that Trumps campaign never gave a fuck about whats real since to them it was just a competition and now that the competition has been won it doesn't matter how they did it or what they did about it.

      So, you mean the Republican candidate finally started acting like this was a real competition, and made shit up like the liberals have for years?

      Sen. Harry Reid about Romney: "He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! "
      Followed up after election with: "Romney didn't win, did he?"

      Dan Rather using obviously faked military documents to prove Bush didn't perform his military duty.

      How many more do you want? We could do this all day long with fake news and lies told by Democrats and their media supporters. Mainstream media, by the way. Not some uber-right crackpot like InfoWars that most people never heard of.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    13. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      So, you mean the Republican candidate finally started acting like this was a real competition, and made shit up like the liberals have for years?

      Congrats. You found one very rare example of a senior Democrat making up shit. Meanwhile virtually the entire case against Hillary Clinton was made up, and a continuation of a campaign of lies that started in 1991 against her husband. Or are you going to tell me with a straight face that the allegations that the Clintons murdered Vince Foster, or screwed people over in a real estate deal (which they never made any money from) were actually honest mistakes by sincere Conservatives who totally believed them?

      You know why Reid made up that allegation? Because he was trying to force Romney to do something Romney was supposed to do anyway (something that would have meant the truth came out anyway incidentally, so Reid may have intended to deceive, but only temporarily, unlike those propagating the Benghazi/Emailgate/Vince Foster/Clinton Rape/Whitewater/taking your guns/etc BS who wanted the lies to stick), and because ever since the Clintons started running for office the Republicans have become completely deranged, and it's hurt liberals that we were unable to fight fire with fire.

      In that context, Reid's comments are small potatoes.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    14. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing that Twitter was bounced from the meeting because Twitter is essentially a worthless dead-end technology that only the most shallow of people give any attention to.

      Note that my use of "worthless" is from the actual definition: they are trying to sell themselves, and nobody is buying.

    15. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      really the whole campaign just shows how little either sides gives a fuck,

      If they democrats really wanted to win they had another candidate. Trump didn't win, Clinton lost. They had Michigan and Wisconsin polls completely wrong in the primary and then all those voters went elsewhere in the Primary (which the polls also had completely wrong).

    16. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing that Twitter was bounced from the meeting because Twitter is essentially a worthless dead-end technology that only the most shallow of people give any attention to.

      Your President-Elect loves Twitter. It's his main platform for policy stances and personal insults.

      And are you calling Trump voters the 'most shallow of people'?

    17. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Yes there is, has the Lard Ass and Chief considered a Ritualized Group Emulation with all those that call him, "Friend?" The guy looks like a raccoon with that spray on tan. Does anybody remember Tammy Baker cosmetics? LMAO

    18. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Which answers an Ig Nobel question, "how many fools are there in America?"

    19. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Sgt. Bilko didn't suck Soviet or Russian dick and the Dump team is lining up to do it.

    20. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I think of the Democrats ignoring the Rust Belt it their number 1 Brain Fart. The number 2 Brain Fart was Out Sourcing. The number 3 Brain Fart was not getting the vote out. And the number 4 Brain Fart was not having a Clinton/Sanders ticket to vote on. This was Clinton's election to lose.

    21. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      So, you mean the Republican candidate finally started acting like this was a real competition, and made shit up like the liberals have for years?

      Congrats. You found one very rare example of a senior Democrat making up shit.

      Excuse me while I laugh uproariously.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    22. Re: It seems like an exaggerated story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably because Cook is the least critically minded dumbed down one of the buch. What did Cook ever do? Hes only there for appeasement and because Steve Jobs bit the dust. The whole thing was political but a necessary evil in the face of relentless Hitlery

    23. Re:It seems like an exaggerated story by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Oh, he definitely does, given that in a month, any unemployment will be blamed on him, and any increase in jobs - like the ones at Carrier, Ford, Softbank, et al, will be to his credit

  3. Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I mean, with all these goddamn meetings happening in goddamn Trump Tower, am I the only one thinking that it's like a goddamn prolog to a bad cyberpunk-dystopia novel?
    "I remember the rise of the megacorps... when all the govs and corps started funneling through the Trumps. If you were anyone, if you wanted anything, you went through those doors, up that golden elevator, and would plead your case to the Trump himself..."

    I don't have anything of substance to this particular conversation, but Jesus Harold CHRIST, am I the only one who gets creeped the hell out by constanly reading about the future of our country marching through the goddamn Trump Tower?

    1. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LinuxInDallas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      President elect has meetings at his home and you feel what? What location would you prefer, Disneyland?

    2. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought they were effectively one in the same.

    3. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He's not in the White House yet, and Trump Tower is his home and center of operations. Where else would you like him to meet with people?

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      You are a fucking idiot if you don't see the difference. He is literally setting up a fascist regime.

    5. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Running out of things to be outraged about?

    6. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What happened to draining the swamp? He is picking nothing but industy crooks and established Republicans.

    7. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were also a fucking idiot if you ever thought Trump could win.

      The Matrix has you, Neo...

    8. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      Trump Tower though. It sounds like a super-villain's lair.

    9. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aren't cyberpunk/dystopia novels always the best? This whole fear thing is a residue of the purposefully created fearful atmosphere during the campaign. It was literally a core part of Hillary Clinton's campaign.

      Remember, he's only the president, not a dictator. He has to abide by the constitution. If one thinks the president has too much power, it's only rational and reasonable to vote for candidates in the future who vow to reduce the power of that particular institution.

    10. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be obtuse. He drained the white supremacist swamp so he could collect all of those critters and bring them into his cabinet; he's going to have to add some dirty water though for them to feel comfortable swimming around in there.

    11. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by aevan · · Score: 1

      Could be worse, could be Shadowrun

    12. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by msauve · · Score: 0

      "goddamn...goddamn...goddamn...goddamn"

      TLDR; come back when you have something intelligent to say, and know how to use reason rather than crude emphasis.

      We do understand that intelligent is a stretch for an AC.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    13. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by HanzoSpam · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm getting to really like this guy Trump. Every time he opens his mouth, the progtards start waving their hankies and screaming, "Faaaaacist!!".

      My way of looking at it is that if fascists are the price we have to pay to get rid of this plague of the Enlightened(tm), then it's a price worth paying. The fascists might leave you with a fucked up country, but at least you'll still have a country. These ass-clowns will happily hand it out from under your feet.

      Adolf Hitler only fucked up Europe for a generation. Angela Merkel has set the stage for centuries of ethnic strife. I'd bet money that Europe will still be cursing Merkel long after Hitler is a forgotten man.

      --

      Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
    14. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And who will check his power? The republican house? The republican senate? The soon to be republican Supreme Court.

      They'll act the same way they did while under bush. Cover up and explain away his stupidity. Or otherwise question your patriotism for not getting on board.

    15. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by zieroh · · Score: 0, Troll

      You've been brainwashed by leftist fake news.

      Exactly. The truth has a decidedly leftist lean to it.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    16. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by zieroh · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm getting to really like this guy Trump. Every time he opens his mouth, the progtards start waving their hankies and screaming, "Faaaaacist!!".

      I am compelled to point out that you misspelled "Faaaaascist".

      Just sayin'.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    17. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A grammar fascist.

      That's was a new one for me :)

    18. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 0, Troll

      You are a fucking idiot if you don't see the difference. He is literally setting up a fascist regime.

      Probably the primary ideological idea of fascism is a rejection of capitalism and unearned income, and demands for a "fair" redistribution of wealth; fascist leaders usually are people who become powerful and wealthy through politics, not through running businesses or inheritance. Between Trump and Clinton, Clinton is closer to fascism ideologically than Trump.

      At this point, I see no indications that Trump is a threat to democracy. He is simply a thin-skinned, inexperienced businessman-turned-politician. He'll do his job for four years (or maybe eight) and then hand power over to the next president, whoever that may be. So, stop the hyperventilating and fear mongering and enjoy the show.

    19. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only to leftists..

    20. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by dbIII · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, yes, I get it that anyone bad must be Hitler by a certain mindset, right the point where Saddam, who compared himself to another monster, Stalin, was still given that label.
      Despite that trend it's worth considering that when some people say Fascist they mean something other than Germans with skulls on their hats. Here's a well written bit on what to watch out for:
      http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

      Donald Trump looks like he may be going down that road some time soon and it's scaring the shit out of some people.

    21. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Holy shit. You are fucking insane. How many Jews do you want to gas?

    22. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by CeasedCaring · · Score: 1

      Look at the facts:-
      Many say he wears a wig, meaning he's bald. He just got elected Prez.
      Who does that remind me of?
      He's Lex Luthor, and his new "cabinet" reads like the next Legion of Doom
      Super-villain lair CONFIRMED!

    23. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by zuki · · Score: 5, Funny

      What happened with 'draining the swamp' ? Well, no one bothered to ask what he was going to replace that swamp water with after he was done with the draining part. That it could turn out to be hydrochloric acid or some equally toxic substance like 'Essence Of Vindicate' shouldn't really be surprising to anyone except those who forgot to ask this critical follow-up question.

    24. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Between Trump and Clinton, Clinton is closer to fascism ideologically than Trump.

      It is abundantly clear that you don't know what fascism is. Maybe this will help.

      Fascism is perhaps too strong a word to describe Trump's ideology. But authoritarianism sure does seem to fit.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    25. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was a dark and stormy night. The city needed a hero that could wash the orange-shame from our broken hearts that was broken by the revolving doors of Trump Tower.

    26. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd prefer the President not line up the CEO of every large company in the land to come by and personally kiss his ass. It looks too much like thinly veiled coercion.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    27. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a forgotten moron already, how about that.

    28. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by meerling · · Score: 2

      More like history. You should read some, it's very enlightening.

    29. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by slickwillie · · Score: 1

      Russia is responsible.

      Umm, somehow. I just haven't figured it out yet. But Putin or soerng.

    30. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Probably the primary ideological idea of fascism is a rejection of capitalism and unearned income, and demands for a "fair" redistribution of wealth

      No. Even ignoring the often conflicting nature of Fascism, your understanding is clearly resulting from your own biases. Which is not uncommon, as due to the historical level of opprobrium, the most popular definition is: Whatever a person hates, that is Fascism.

      It does make for a convenient enemy, as to yourself demonstrate.

      However, historical analysis can overcome this tendency, and only a fool would deny the level of box-checking that a comparison of Trump's behavior with the practices of fascist regimes attains. A higher level of prudence is thus merited.

      Personally, I'm going to see if any idiots went dinosaur hunting lately. That, or pigs that walk like men. At least the chocolate ration has been increased to 25 grams a week.

    31. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by meerling · · Score: 1

      Probably more of a facist Italy thing. Mussolini and all that.

    32. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by meerling · · Score: 1

      So declarations of a desire to do many things that are a clear violation of the Constitution of the United States and in some cases violations of international laws and treaties endorsed by the USA are not a threat to Democracy? Damn... WTF do you consider a threat?

    33. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by meerling · · Score: 2

      Lex Luthor was evil, but he was also a genius and a highly skilled orator. The comparison falls a bit short when those two points are in the mix, but I get your point. ;)

    34. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by meerling · · Score: 1

      We could use Dunkelzhan right now!

    35. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by KeensMustard · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The problem (as many have noted), is the casual intermixing of his business empire, which he has refused to put at arms length and his role as president. These roles are inevitable conflict, and once he takes the oath of office he will be violating the constitution.

      As noted in the link, examples of his conflicts of interest include:

      1. His daughter Ivanka was present in a meeting with Shinzo Abe. She is looking to close a deal with a Japanese clothing giant whose largest shareholder is the state-owned Development Bank of Japan.

      2. He accepted a phone call from the President of Taiwan. It turns out he is planning to build a luxury hotel in Taiwan. Is his position on Taiwan and the One China Policy influenced by his financial stake in this deal?

      A cynical observer might say he is using the presidency as a vehicle to advance his business empire, and out of the other proferred explanation this one best matches his seemingly bizarre behaviour.

    36. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, Disneyland has Goofy, Pluto, Mickey and a host of other stupid characters, Trump Tower just has an Oompa Loompa with tiny tiny hands.

    37. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Win what? The election? I have news for you - he already did. As for the jobs, we will see whether those execs deliver on what they promise him

    38. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by gnuhost · · Score: 1

      Right, deluded war mongers and their fake news networks - that was a way to go, nothing to worry. It's over, go home.

    39. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      No, he's waiting for Trump to conduct his meetings and announcements behind a podium with an "Office of the President Elect" banner in front of it.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    40. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Don't trust an Aussie website to get the facts of US law correct. The Atlantic, no fan of Trump, even admits that the President is exempt from conflict of interest laws. The Boston Globe, which endorsed Clinton for President, also confirms the exemption.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    41. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the President is engaged in crony capitalism, picking winners and losers, and terrorizing people with threats of government help.

      If you want him to meet people, why not the ones who need help rather than the ones who have no need for it?

    42. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump Tower...

      forged in the depths of Trump Tower was the one ring to rule them all!

    43. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The voters will check the powers. There's nothing you can do if the voters have democratically elected a congress and president whom the minority of voters don't like. Before you think "but the popular vote!" no, the stame still applies. The electoral college is in place because the majority of voters don't feel it's a concern and it has stayed in place for a very, very long time. And it also only applies to the presidential elections.

    44. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes you are correct. It's frightening. Silence equals consent.

      Key thing for me was the instant flip on views towards russia by "conservatives".

      We have a huge block of pro-authoritarian voters. I think they want a "human god on earth" and it's literally "ukase rex" .. i.e. whatever he says is good by definition. So if he says to fire people in violation of federal law, it's good. If he says to kill people, it's good.

      But it's not good- it's actually 1938 germany damn scary...

      We studied WHY the "good " germans went along with hitler and it's the same thing. They wanted a strong leader and were willing to go along with anything he wanted as long as he was a strong leader. Many of Trumps supporters show the same reason for liking trump. He's strong. Not that he tells the truth. Not that he follows the law.

      http://www.christianpost.com/n...

      "In a recent column for Politico, MacWilliams reported that in December he did a national poll of 1,800 voters to explain the support for Trump.

      "Running a standard statistical analysis, I found that education, income, gender, age, ideology, and religiosity [b]had no significant bearing[/b] on a Republican voter's preferred candidate," wrote MacWilliams.

      "Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: [b]authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism,[/b] though the former was far more significant than the latter."

      Mark Leary, professor of Psychology and Neuroscience at Duke University, told The Christian Post that traits which define authoritarian personality include "rigid adherence to traditional values; the tendency to condemn, reject, and punish people who violate those values; and having a submissive, uncritical attitude toward powerful authorities who support and defend one's values and views."
      [b]
      A Certain Set of Characteristics[/b]

      [b]Authoritarian Personality Theory came from a project to better understand how the Nazis came to power during the 1930s and were able to commit mass atrocity.[/b]

      Theodore Adorno et. al. published the first major work in 1950, titled The Authoritarian Personality, and championed the survey known as the California F-Scale, the letter f standing for Fascist.

      The F-Scale was a series of questions that determined how authoritarian a person's thinking was, with an interviewee answering how much they agreed or disagreed with certain value statements.

      According to one online version of the test*, statements posed to interviewees included, "Obedience and respect for authority are the most important virtues children should learn", "If people would talk less and work more, everybody would be better off", "Every person should have complete faith in some supernatural power whose decisions he obeys without question", and "An insult to our honor should always be punished."

      Thousands of peer-reviewed articles and studies on the Authoritarian Personality have been published over the past six decades.
      "

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    45. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by carlmarx · · Score: 1

      Trust your leader. If he is there because of his hardwork and he have good plans for us.

    46. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by mmell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Trump's not the threat . . . giving up and letting him continue to get away with it is the threat. What's that old saying, "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance" (or words to that effect)?

    47. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Ly4 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Neither of your citations appear to even mention the 'emoluments clause' of the Constitution, which makes them, at best, incomplete ('worthless' is also a possible description).

      Try looking for something newer - there was very little reporting on the emoluments clause until after the election.

    48. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by mmell · · Score: 1

      Yeah he's got plans for us . . . "Arbeit macht frei".

    49. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 'Aussie website' that you are criticizing agrees with you. From the linked article:

      Trump has defended his position by saying that presidents are exempt from the federal law that punishes government officials found to have conflicts of interest.

      He is right about this - the president is excluded from the operation of the law - but this is doesn't mean he couldn't find himself in legal trouble; scholars have suggested that Trump's position could violate the US Constitution's Emoluments Clause, which prevents a president from receiving gifts from foreign governments.

      Note also that a legal conflict of interest is still a conflict of interest.

    50. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope. For example, right-wingers are more likely to claim that there are supernatural beings of some sort, left-wingers are more likely to deny that. Since there's no evidence of the existence of such, reality would seem to have a leftist lean in at least this respect.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    51. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says the guy with the bible quote in his sig.

    52. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Had you read that quoted bullshit, my stance would have become clear to you.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    53. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Probably the primary ideological idea of fascism is a rejection of capitalism and unearned income, and demands for a "fair" redistribution of wealth

      Where the hell are you getting that shit from? The core concept of fascism is state capitalism: the collusion of the state and business capital, with the state picking winners and propping up monolithic leaders of different industries, eliminating fair competition, etc, in the process, all "for the good" of the nation as some top-down unified whole, but with equality no part of the equation -- there are big winners and big losers, but the state picks who is who. Mussolini, who coined the term, said himself that it might better have been called corporatism.

      The rejection of unearned income (which, not free markets, is the defining characteristic of capitalism), and the aim of a fairer distribution of wealth, is not fascism but socialism (which, mind you, need not be statist; there is such a thing as libertarian socialism, or free market socialism). It sounds to me like you just think those words mean the same thing, because in your mind socialism = statism and statism = fascism, when in reality statism vs libertarianism and capitalism vs socialism are orthogonal issues, and fascism is the corner of the resultant grid where statism meets capitalism, the worst of both worlds. Neither state socialism nor libertarian capitalism are its opposite; libertarian socialism is.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    54. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by khallow · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Your "emoluments clause" is not the actual "emoluments clause". You are referring to the "Title of Nobility" clause:

      No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.

      Which is in Article I, section 9. The actual emoluments clause is in Article I, section 6, and covers a somewhat different situation:

      No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.

      That's why, for example, when a congressional member is appointed to a position in either the executive or judicial branch, they have to resign their seat in order to accept the new position.

    55. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      once he takes the oath of office he will be violating the constitution

      Just thought it might be worthwhile to emphasize this part that you wrote.

    56. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Note: but his children are not.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    57. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      People are stuck into a simplistic left vs right style of thinking. Fascism doesn't really fit into that mold. But everyone things "fascists are bad, therefore they must be the opposite of what I am." Today in the US there aren't many people that can think outside of a one dimensional view of politics, but fascism arose when there were several competing ideologies at the same time, and they weren't just different degrees of left vs right.

    58. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Ly4 · · Score: 2

      Interesting info - thanks! I didn't know there was another section sometimes referred to as the 'emoluments clause'.

      My quick bit of searching indicates that there's some disagreement over which of the (three!) sections of the constitution that mention 'emoluments' get that as their informal title. At the moment, Wikipedia links emoluments to Article I, section 9, but there's some arguing about that choice on the various talk pages.

      Specificity will be a useful thing as this discussion proceeds; I suspect we'll be talking about how to interpret 'Consent of Congress' before too long.

    59. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by admin7087 · · Score: 1

      Disneyland would be even better, but it's already funny enough as it is. I'm looking forward to a lot of bunga-bunga!

    60. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Past presidents have not had this amount of people showing up in line to meet with them before actually holding office. The time was normally spent figuring out the cabinet (and the bureau, and the armoire) and getting ready. I don't recall this line up of important people showing up to meet with past incoming presidents unless they were considered for cabinet positions, and even that was usually done in private.

    61. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      The president is not exempt from emoluments clause though. But I will agree that it's a very unusual clause in the constitution and not easy to tie down what it exactly means in the modern age. The upshot is that the president, or any high official, should not profit from foreign governments. People actually pointed to this with Hillary Clinton because the charitable Clinton Foundation was accepting money from foreign governments while she was secretary of state. The president can accept personal gifts of all sorts from American citizens, and probably citizens of other countries, but not from leaders or governments of other countries. If the gifts only went to his children the clause should still apply (it's hardly a blind trust if your kids run it), and if the gifts were only in the form of favorable financial treatments it should still apply.

    62. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Spamalope · · Score: 1, Informative

      and fascism is the corner of the resultant grid where statism meets capitalism, the worst of both worlds. Neither state socialism nor libertarian capitalism are its opposite; libertarian socialism is.

      Only 16 years from the end of the 20th century and you think the corner where statism meets capitalism is the worst? Really? Not where statism meets socialism?

      Do the deaths of little people not matter as long as the great leap forward is achieved? Do you think the statist socialist places weren't doing socialism hard enough, or will you make a 'no true Scottsman' argument and claim they weren't doing it right? It's just that every single time... every. time... every. single. time... it ends in rivers of blood. The useful idealists are liquidated the moment they object.

      So with more than 100 million dead between Mao's great leap forward and Stalin's war on the Kulaks and subsequent starvation of the Ukraine (Russia deliberately shipped food *out* during a famine) exactly how big does the death toll have to be? 5x the worst of fascism? 10x? Are you pining for your own Hundred Flowers campaign so you'll be free to achieve your vision afterwards? Have you 'seen the future, and it works!'? Did your primary education include Solzhenitsyn or the Hundred Flowers? The substantive answer is that it's damning of the political ideology that's in vogue, isn't it?

      Statism is a real world slippery slope. Psychological manipulation techniques for whole societies work, and are well known. Those two amplify each others power. Statism has to be stopped before it reaches critical mass, but the point where that happens is only visible afterwards. You have to steer well clear of the avalanche area because you can't stop it. The society wide version of lynch mobs that result if you don't make actual mobs seem friendly. That's the lesson of the 20th century. Avoid this or there will be rivers of blood - unless you try really, really hard to do it right this time - then there will be oceans of blood instead.

    63. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      No, he actually meant facist (someone who discriminates based on faces).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    64. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ET3D · · Score: 1

      No, you're on a site whose byline is "political news for American nerds; stuff that doesn't matter to most people yet to everyone's annoyance gets to the front page".

    65. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      That is one of the greatest Bible quotes ever.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    66. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Authoritarianism has been alive and well in the US way before the emergence of Donald Trump.
      The only thing Trump has done is to reveal this fact in full to the American populace.

    67. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's further complicated by the fact that one of the Nazi party's chief contenders for public support during their rise were the Sparticists, and their successors. To counter this, the Nazis adopted various bits of communist rhetoric, without ever intending to actually implement any of these plans.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    68. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy shit. You are fucking insane. How many Jews do you want to gas?

      Gas them ? That is so archaic. We don't need no gassing. Just let demographics run its course. Why do you think Israel is the hebrew variant of an Islamic Republic ? Israel is enacting against a good portion of its citizens antisemitic laws that would have made Hitler proud. And the world applauds 'cause hey the Jews by definition can't do anything bad or morally reprehensible.

    69. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Do you think the statist socialist places weren't doing socialism hard enough, or will you make a 'no true Scottsman' argument and claim they weren't doing it right?

      In the case of the USSR, they started by doing it far too much and then gave up really doing it at all. Immediately devolving control to the soviets when they had absolutely no idea how to run the industries and agriculture suddenly under their control was a disaster. It wasn't even an unexpected one: even Marx pointed out that you need to have a gradual change to get to that end goal. A couple of African countries have made a similar mistake, taking land from white farmers and giving it to black people without bothering to give them any training in how to run a farm and then acting surprised when agriculture collapses. After that, the USSR moved to a centrally controlled model, which is pretty much the antithesis of the socialist ideal of those that do the work being in control of (and gaining the rewards from) that work. It's possible (though by no means certain) that a centrally planned economy could work now, with modern analytics and data gathering (if you could somehow avoid corruption distorting the data too badly), but it definitely couldn't work almost a century ago.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    70. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      It'll probably be along the lines of "Speak now or forever hold your peace".

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    71. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you've mistaken me for someone who is defending statism of any form. Statism in any form is bad.

      But statism explicitly entrenching inequalities, as in fascism, is bad on top of bad, when contrasted with a state actually working toward equality. Not that it often actually does, because authority breeds inequality just as much as inequality breeds authority. Statism tends toward state capitalism, not socialism; capitalism tends toward state capitalism, not libertarianism. The general tendency is always toward authority and inequality. Fascism, or feudalism in its preindustrial form, is the lowest ground that we continually fall toward when we lose the fight for liberty and equality, which must be fought for together because a deficit in either will lead to a deficit in the other.

      Also, for what it's worth, Stalinism and its derivatives were generally considered, sometimes by themselves and usually by other contemporary socialists and communists, to be forms of state capitalism ostensibly as a transitional form on the way to state socialism and then later communism, i.e. basically openly operating "temporarily" as fascists, in the name of (i.e. to further the cause of) communism. So all those things were done by fascists, just "instrumental" fascists rather than "ideological" ones.

      Whom (fascists), you'll note, I agree are the worst.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    72. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Conflict of interest doesn't have to be illegal for it to be a problem.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    73. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's not even president yet. Do you suggest he hold meetings in the West Wing?

    74. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. For example, right-wingers are more likely to claim that there are supernatural beings of some sort, left-wingers are more likely to deny that. Since there's no evidence of the existence of such, reality would seem to have a leftist lean in at least this respect.

      Reality has a well-known liberal bias.
      -- Steven Colbert

    75. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by uohcicds · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, you DO know what that quote is, don't ya? Here's a clue: "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." As sigs go, that's pretty stellar :)

      --
      It's not you: I'm just this horrifically socially awkward with everybody.
    76. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except Hitler had them disbanded once he'd used them to get to power. Your assertion as proof for a left wing Nazi party is like trying to pretend that the KKK are leftwingers because they bought AK47s.

    77. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by gtall · · Score: 1

      This is one of the reasons why some think of Trump as a Fascist in the sense of an authoritarian ruler who uses the state to control the means of production. In Trump's mind, everything revolves around him. This is the basis for his statement that a president cannot have a conflict of interest, there is no conflict if all the interest is his.

    78. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by gtall · · Score: 1

      Ah, the wookie response. Look a wookie, therefore where I'm pointing makes sense.

      No one is accusing Russia of orchestrating the TT meetings, except you. However selectively leaking Dem. info to their lapdog at Wikileaks is coercion. Funding Europe's hard right parties is coercion. Their goal to make the West and Democracy look as stupid as their keptocracy.

    79. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are not alone. This is the beginning of something. How far it goes is up to the majority of Americans.

    80. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember your original objective was to drain the swamp."

      Never truer than now....

    81. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Uh, what? Nothing I said was proof (or even evidence) that the Nazi party was left wing.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    82. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you prefer that he picked people from the Clinton Swamp^H^H^H^H^HFoundation?

    83. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facts are stubborn things. They're also boring things. The things that Hillary did in peoples' imaginations are far more interesting and sinister.

    84. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by jgullstr · · Score: 2

      No need for follow-ups. Swamps are drained to provide economically exploitable land, harming flora and fauna in the process. They are protected to preserve a healthy ecosystem, and now this one is being drained because of a few moderately detrimental mosquitoes. Be careful what you wish for.

    85. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > A cynical observer might say he is using the presidency as a vehicle to advance his business empire [...]

      My (slightly more cynical) take is that he's been seeing one of his many Pozi schemes towards going boom and that US Presidency would be the only thing possibly saving his ass.

    86. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the party. Hopefully the rest of the US opens it's eyes soon.

    87. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump cut them out because of emojis.

      Sure he did.

      Nothing to do with Twitter relentlessly manipulating hashtags and killing accounts that supported Trump.

      Google tried to fuck over Trump too. The difference is that Google is actually a force on the internet. Twitter fucked themselves and won't be around much longer. So, in the eyes of Trump's team... fuck them.

    88. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa! Fascism: look that shit up. "That word..."

    89. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It speaks to just how poor is moral character is. The guy is set to be the most powerful individual in the world by most reckonings, but can't give up his money making schemes for just four years to do the job. He can't even resist not blatantly, openly using it to enrich himself and his family and his friends.

      Of course, we knew this before he was elected. His presidency is the biggest con-trick ever pulled in the history of the world.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    90. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks was not Fake News, asshole.

      The source doesn't matter. The contents of the emails damned her. Nothing else.

    91. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      It's not just you. I consider myself a real-life cyberpunk character. Makes me feel bad about any fleeting moment where I thought it would be cool to live in a cyberpunk dystopia...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    92. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "Yes you are correct. It's frightening."

      No. No he is not. I'm sure he'd love to have these meetings in the White House, but you see, there's a slight problem with that. Somebody else currently lives there and will for a couple more months. This sort of makes it hard for him to hold meetings there.

      Trump is not Hitler, he is not acting in any way similar to Hitler. You're a damned fool if you think so, and the most pathetic thing is, this drivel is marked +5 informative.

    93. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You aren't going to be president, Mr. Trump. It's a dream. A wonderful, beautiful, hopeless, idiotic dream."
      -Stephen Colbert, October 2016

    94. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by dywolf · · Score: 1

      again you prove your ignorance regarding basic definitions.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    95. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He won the election all credit to Trump!!
      He may not follow through on promises, but no blame to Trump!!

    96. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are, at the least, debatable. Clinton's position is more militaristic than Trump's, which is one of the hallmarks of fascism. Censorship and intimidatory violence, traditional authoritarian tactics, have been pursued more avidly by Democrats than by Republicans. But then again, Clinton hasn't been visibly involved in that.

    97. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure Israel isn't making anti-semitic laws. Anti-muslim maybe. Anti-arab maybe. But not anti-semitic.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    98. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      Wikileaks was not Fake News, asshole.

      The source doesn't matter. The contents of the emails damned her. Nothing else.

      He did not use the word 'fake' at all; it is you who tries to put that word in his mouth.

      Regarding the emails, exactly what was so damning about them? As far as I can tell the only reasonable reaction to those emails was 'yeah, so?'.

    99. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by c · · Score: 3, Funny

      What happened with 'draining the swamp' ?

      Trump: "I never said anything about draining a swamp!"

      Everyone: "Whaaaaa... ?"

      Trump: "I know more about draining swamps than anyone, and you can bet I'd turn it into the Sahara if I was going to do that! Nice place, the Sahara; you can get a real tan there, not like these New York City tans. And those Arabs... I'll tell you, nobody can deal with those Arabs like me!

      blah....

      blather...

      blah.... ... and I'm telling you, we're going to drain that swamp!"

      Everyone: ".... ffffffuuuuuuuccccckkkkkk..."

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    100. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > creeped the hell out by constanly reading about the future

      Maybe stop reading biased sources like politico? They've been yelling and screaming at Trump all through the election. Hell, they were one of the main sources of Reddit's r/politics during the election, which tells you just how far gone they really are.

    101. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ScentCone · · Score: 0

      If you want him to meet people, why not the ones who need help rather than the ones who have no need for it?

      So who do you think he should be meeting with, specifically? He's just had a meeting with people who rabidly opposed his candidacy, and offered to be a partner in their deep involvement in the health of the economy rather than an obstacle. I suppose you'd rather he met with a collection of homeless heroin addicts who live on the street in San Francisco? Or perhaps a kitchen worker at a local elementary school?

      Why do you assume that everyone who spent months throwing vitriolic invective at him during the campaign, then meets him and talks to him and comes out saying how glad they are to have had constructive and interesting time with the transition team, are secretly considering themselves to be "terrorized?" Are you even listening to yourself? You want to know who was feeling terrorized? Every business owner who has been trying to grow their business, hire people, and survive in a difficult economic climate that has been made far, far more so by liberal politicians bent on regulating and taxing them out of existence. "Terrorized" is having the IRS acting against you for purely political reasons. I know - that sort of thing was all done by politicians of whom you approve, so you LIKE it when they do things like that. Hypocrite.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    102. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he is dismantling one.

    103. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The convenience name, "emoluments clause," has been used to refer to both clauses in the past. It's not a title, and Wikipedia (which makes the same artificial distinction you do) is not the arbiter of reality.

    104. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Why go to Disney, when you can get Disney come to you?\

      Anyway the article is flawed in many ways. For one, just because the "President" uses something a lot doesn't make it worthy to give tech advice. Second, Twitter has never made any money, they have never made a profit in the years of their existence, and from all accounts the rest of the big players have about zero faith in them as the companies making crazy deals with players like Magic Leap, won't touch Twitter with a 10 foot pole as no one wants to buy them. So not exactly the ones you want to take tech advice from I don't think anyway

    105. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus. Read a history book you sensationalizing faggot

    106. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Not wanting to have your native population replaced is "hard right"

      Glad we killed off all those hard right native Americans.

    107. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by dywolf · · Score: 1

      being exempt from the law is not the same as not having a conflict of interest.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    108. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      LBJ owned lots of businesses, including radio and TV stations. He put those in a trust run by his wife - and that was sufficient. Likewise with Kennedy, who's extremely wealthy family kept running the family businesses and investments, and gave him $3 million from the family trust while he was still President (1962). Heck, the founding fathers were all fabulously wealthy men who continued ownership of their vast estates and farms and businesses which were run by their family. But I get it. Trump.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    109. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by dywolf · · Score: 1

      The voters will check the powers.

      Not if they're disenfranchised first.

      Example: North Carolina. a majority democrat state, with a nearly permanently and overwhelmingly GOP controlled legislature, because of how completely gerrymandered NC districts are. and of course, Voter ID on top of that.

      Each election since 2008 has seen further and further eroding of peoples ability to vote.

      This next session is no different, with several state legislatures, the majority of which are similarly gerrymandered to hell and controlled by the GOP, already considering further voting restrictions and redistrictings.

      we are looking at a potentially permanent GOP control of all levels of government, regardless of actual majority status.

      this is how America falls.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    110. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because the incoming president has never had meetings with captains of industry before taking office in the entire history of everything.

      He can't exactly invite himself into the Roosevelt Room at the White House for these meetings yet. What the fuck do you expect him to do, go to Epcot until the 20th of January?

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    111. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Republican president-elect facing Republican majority in the Senate nominates Republicans for cabinet posts to serve under a Republican president.

      Yeah, what the fuck already?!

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    112. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      in your mind socialism = statism and statism = fascism

      That is the way it has tended to work, historically. The Nazis (from "National Socialism", in German) had strongly socialist policies about redistributing wealth. Implementation of these required a strong, central state. And now they are regarded as the poster-children of fascism.

    113. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: [b]authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism,[/b] though the former was far more significant than the latter."

      I've talked with people at work who seem to be stereo typical typical "good Christians" and they will bend over backwards to find a way to support pretty much anyone that they think might advance their values, particularly on abortion. It is interesting that abortions have tended to fall more, lately at least, under democratic administrations. snopes. The article mentions that the trend hasn't held forever, but it does seem to have held during the last several presidents.

      I don't know I suppose I can understand they find it to be an important issue, but I just can't accept the letting rome burn to get it attitude as rational. You don't buy a car from a known con man just because you liked the color of the seats.

    114. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that Godwin's law won't win arguments or elections, right?

      All it does is make people stop listening to you.

    115. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by guises · · Score: 1

      Fascism is about war, and what it takes to create a state which is maximally ready for combat. Economic concerns are simply one facet of that, and not the focus at all. Regarding the Fascist position on economics: it's oddly centrist. Given how extreme the rest of Fascism is you might expect something utterly totalitarian, but it had a mix of public and private ownership, central planning of only some of the means of production, social welfare, etc. Only somewhat more totalitarian than what we have today.

    116. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Key thing for me was the instant flip on views towards russia by "conservatives".

      But the instant flip by liberals of Russia is no threat to wanting to start a nuclear war with them (as Hillary Clinton claimed multiple times) doesn't bother you at all?

      Remember Romney running and saying our biggest enemy in the short term future was Russia. Then Obama literally making fun of him saying the eighties called and want their foreign policy back, and you laughing along with them. Oh you forgot that did you. Now Hillary saying threatening Russia with nukes is a good idea, a no-fly zone shooting down any Russian jets over Syria should be the policy is a good idea.

      Maybe, just maybe, letting Assad keep power in Syria, and working with Russia to eliminate ISIS could be a GOOD FUCKING IDEA. That plan only pisses off a single person, Obama who gave speech after speech that Assad had to go. Once you realize Obama is an asshole who shouldn't have made that speech, ISIS and Russia conflicts suddenly get much easier to deal with.

      But it sounds like you would prefer a shooting war with Russia in order for one asshole, Obama, to save face over a speech that he shouldn't have made. Fuck Obama in this case, he fucked up, he was the idiot in this case and needs to admit it.

    117. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Khaaaaaaaan!

    118. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by judoguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is abundantly clear that you don't know what fascism is. Maybe this will help.

      Fascism is perhaps too strong a word to describe Trump's ideology. But authoritarianism sure does seem to fit.

      Perhaps it's you that doesn't understand Fascisim. I suggest a well written and researched book instead of Wikipedia.

      "Stronger together!" is classic Fascism. "I'm with her!" is classic cult of personality associated with Fascism.

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    119. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      It is abundantly clear that you don't know what fascism is. Maybe this will help.

      I suggest you actually read that article.

      Fascism is perhaps too strong a word to describe Trump's ideology.

      It is. Neither Clinton nor Trump are "Nationalist" or "Totalitarian". The most important point after that is "Economy" and "Action", both of which describe Clinton's progressive and activist ideas much better than Trump's capitalism. That's why I was saying "Between Trump and Clinton, Clinton is closer to fascism ideologically than Trump."

    120. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #CrookedKalEl!

    121. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      So declarations of a desire to do many things that are a clear violation of the Constitution of the United States and in some cases violations of international laws and treaties endorsed by the USA are not a threat to Democracy?

      Both Clinton and Trump are equally guilty of such declarations. That's nothing unusual either: it's why we have SCOTUS and Congress.

    122. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hereby declare a desire to fuck your mom in the ass, but have no intention of actually doing so. Am I a threat to your mom's asshole virginity?

      Can we wait until he's actually President, and actually tries to violate the Constitution or duly-ratified international treaty before getting your panties in a twist?

    123. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      The core concept of fascism is state capitalism: the collusion of the state and business capital, with the state picking winners and propping up monolithic leaders of different industries, eliminating fair competition, etc, in the process, all "for the good" of the nation as some top-down unified whole, but with equality no part of the equation

      Yes, and those ideas are at the core of the Democrats' and Clinton's political program.

      However, calling that "state capitalism" is a misnomer; that kind of economic system is not a form of capitalism, just like "crony capitalism" isn't a form of capitalism; both of those are politically motivated, misleading terms.

      The rejection of unearned income (which, not free markets, is the defining characteristic of capitalism), and the aim of a fairer distribution of wealth, is not fascism but socialism

      It is true that both fascism and socialism have these as goals. The distinguishing feature between them is that socialism advocates public ownership of the means of production, while fascism advocates strongly regulated private ownership of the means of production (what you called "state capitalism" above).

      (which, mind you, need not be statist; there is such a thing as libertarian socialism, or free market socialism)

      "Libertarian socialism" would be a society in which people voluntarily behave according to socialist principles; there is a better name for that society, it's called "communism", and it's Marx's hypothetical endpoint of history. It doesn't exist.

      And the concept of "free market socialism" makes no sense: the whole point of socialism is public ownership of the means of production. You can't have that and simultaneously have anything like a free market.

      Some European parties advocate something they call "social democracies" or "democratic socialism", a blend of democracy, regulated market economies, and private enterprise, but in practice, Europe has largely abandoned the idea.

    124. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Verdatum · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ya know, calling anyone who doesn't see things the way you do a "fucking idiot" is a rather ineffective way to get your point across.

    125. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Verdatum · · Score: 1

      Plenty of people bothered to ask that. Trump might not be a politician, but he's still great at replying to questions with non-answers.

    126. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      You aren't quite to where a cynical observer is yet. Being one, this is what I might say:

      Trump might be using the presidency as a vehicle to advance his business empire. On the other hand, we know that Clinton absolutely would have used the presidency for self-enrichment, so it's really a wash. We were going to end up with that anyway.

      Now that's cynicism!

      (note: this is intended in no way to be a defense of any self-enrichment that Trump may be doing. I was holding out for a late breaking third option that didn't make me throw up in my mouth while filling out the ballot.)

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    127. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Verdatum · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When Trump talked about draining the swamp, I presumed that Trump supporters and non-supporters alike knew that this meant he'd replace them with industry crooks. When he said he knew "the best people"....he's not exactly hanging out with university professors...He's a businessman. He knows businessmen. And of course you gotta keep some politicians, that's just politics to keep congress from eating him alive. But now I'm seeing all these trumpers being like, 'hey wait, what?'

    128. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Does that eternal vigilance include riots and beating up Trump voters?

      Sure, I agree hold him accountable but acting in violent ways when nothing except an election has happened is NOT the vigilance we should have or anything resembling the price of liberty.

    129. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Who will check his power? We the People. In two years, when the entire House and 1/3 of the Senate has to run to keep their seat.

      Midterm elections offer the opportunity for a very powerful rebuke of an administration that isn't going the direction that the public wants. See: the 1994 Republican Revolution, 2006 Democratic takeover of Congress, the 2010 "Tea Party" wave.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    130. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Fascism is about war, and what it takes to create a state which is maximally ready for combat.

      Well, fascism is about many ideas. But even if you worry about foreign military intervention, Hillary's record is quite militaristic. You can hardly accuse someone of running on a program of militarism and war mongering who actually ran on statements like this:

      I would be very, very cautious. I think I'd be a lot slower. She has a happy trigger. You look, she votes for the wars, she goes in Libya.

      Seems like he was running on a promise of less foreign military intervention and less use of the military than Clinton, doesn't it?

      egarding the Fascist position on economics: it's oddly centrist. Given how extreme the rest of Fascism is you might expect something utterly totalitarian, but it had a mix of public and private ownership, central planning of only some of the means of production, social welfare, etc. Only somewhat more totalitarian than what we have today.

      Well, yes, we live in a progressive welfare state with high taxes and high regulations that is what Democrats advocate, and it is what populists like. The fact that these economic ideas are popular doesn't change the fact that these are also close to the core tenets of fascist economics. After all, what do you think got the NSDAP or Mussolini elected?

      Once you recognize that, you'll recognize why so many people have rejected Hillary's economic and political ideas. See, it isn't just monocled fat cats who vote for lower corporate taxes or less regulation, it's also people who recognize that that kind of approach to economics is broken.

    131. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      I've felt for some time that Trump seems like he should be on a ratty-looking poster in a comic book movie.

      --
      -
    132. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Well, you're welcome to read up on fascism and tell me where I'm wrong.

      My statement was simply that "Between Trump and Clinton, Clinton is closer to fascism ideologically than Trump."

      Now, most of the characteristics of fascism don't apply to either Trump or Clinton: neither is a nationalist or totalitarian, neither advocates fascist gender roles, and neither has the weird relationship with modernism what fascists have.

      Where Trump and Clinton differ is primarily on the economy. And the core fascist idea about the economy is:

      Fascism presented itself as a third position, alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism.[169] While fascism opposed mainstream socialism, it sometimes regarded itself as a type of nationalist "socialism", to highlight their commitment to national solidarity and unity.[170][171] Fascists opposed international free market capitalism, but supported a type of productive capitalism.[173]
      [...]
      Fascist economics supported a state-controlled economy that accepted a mix of private and public ownership over the means of production.[180] Economic planning was applied to both the public and private sector, and the prosperity of private enterprise depended on its acceptance of synchronizing itself with the economic goals of the state.[181] Fascist economic ideology supported the profit motive, but emphasized that industries must uphold the national interest as superior to private profit.[181]
      While fascism accepted the importance of material wealth and power, it condemned materialism, which it identified as being present in both communism and capitalism, and criticized materialism for lacking acknowledgement of the role of the spirit.[182] In particular, fascists criticized capitalism not because of its competitive nature nor support of private property, which fascists supported—but due to its materialism, individualism, alleged bourgeois decadence, and alleged indifference to the nation.[183] Fascism denounced Marxism for its advocacy of materialist internationalist class identity, which fascists regarded as an attack upon the emotional and spiritual bonds of the nation and a threat to the achievement of genuine national solidarity.[184]

      Now, tell me, does that sound more like Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump?

    133. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ...and your contribution was just as useful. And my, the implied plurality! Let me fix that for you.

      "I do understand that intelligence is a stretch for an AC."

      You speak only for yourself, never, ever, forget that.

    134. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Nope. For example, right-wingers are more likely to claim that there are supernatural beings of some sort, left-wingers are more likely to deny that. Since there's no evidence of the existence of such, reality would seem to have a leftist lean in at least this respect.

      Show me a left-winger running for high office who denies god exists. Who actually has a chance of winning.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    135. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I believe that on Google Maps it's Dump Tower. Which makes sense, to me.

    136. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I find myself confused, I am agreeing with an A/C.

    137. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Show me a left-winger running for high office who denies god exists. Who actually has a chance of winning.

      Pretty much all left-wingers in my country (that had 20% of theists in the last census of 2011, down from 32% of theists ten years before that).

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    138. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      It's possible (though by no means certain) that a centrally planned economy could work now, with modern analytics and data gathering (if you could somehow avoid corruption distorting the data too badly), but it definitely couldn't work almost a century ago.

      Well, think about that. In order to perform central economic planning, the state would have to gather data about all the buying preferences, interests, work productivity, skills, capabilities, and motivations of every citizen. Even if that were possible, that kind of data collection would result in a totalitarian state, whose power would invariably be abused by its leaders.

      but it definitely couldn't work almost a century ago.

      Communism didn't fail because there wasn't enough computational power around (Marx never even considered computational or analytic power as an essential component of communism). It failed because it turned out that even very modest data collection by the state and very modest transfer of economic power to the state immediately resulted in totalitarianism. Collecting more data and giving more economic power to the state isn't going to fix that problem.

    139. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What Conservatives have flipped their views on Russia?

      The only people flipping views around the US about Russia are liberals. Russia was under control with Hillary's great reset button, and John Kerry has proven to be one of the smartest Secretary of State's ever seen, followed of course by Obama's own global policy.

      Oh, wait. Liberals believe that, but none of it is true. The reset was an abysmal failure. John Kerry has been outmaneuvered in every worthwhile negotiation, particularly including the Iranian deal (where they just proclaimed that they wanted to make nuclear-powered ships; every other week they proclaim that we have broken the deal and they can do what they want). And Obama has been a joke from the beginning, ranging from his apology tour to his lines in the ground that Syria couldn't cross... until they did without any punishment.

      How's Ukraine going? Oh, we stopped caring because Kerry and Obama had nothing to say about it beyond a sternly worded press conference.

      How are we doing with those nuclear flybys from Russia? Oh, we haven't limited those in any way, shape, or form?

      How about WikiLeaks, a former love of the left? I am happy that they released those emails, but I continue to believe that they're criminals thanks to the originally leaked material from Manning.

      I am definitely conservative (not a Republican). I hate Russia because they are an evil regime that is clearly in a growth phase.

      However, I do not for a moment believe that Russia hacked and released the DNC emails, nor do I believe that they hacked and released Hillary's chief of staff's emails. For starters, Podesta was spear-phished and not hacked; anyone could have done it.

      My reasoning is not that I am a biased fool that is just a sore winner. The reality is that I already listed the reasons. Hillary, Kerry, and Obama have been proven to be weak and ineffective whenever it comes with interacting directly or indirectly with Russia. Russia would want someone like that in office. On the other side, Trump ran pretty much the most pro-US campaign that you can run, to the point that the left religiously called him a fascist. Add to the fact that Trump is clearly a little bit of a wildcard, that is not as simple of a situation for Russia.

      And finally, the thing that I find most laughable about this push to blame Russia for Hillary's defeat is that the reason she lost is obvious, and it's not the leaked emails (especially considering that the left largely refused to cover them). It is her persisted failure related to her personal email server and her shifting claims, which stayed in the news throughout the election cycle, including the illegal storage by Abedin at the last minute. Add to it her lies surrounding her health (her utter and literal collapse in early September where metal fell from her pant leg, combined with the reality that she struggled to walk around unassisted unless she was out of site for over a week, such as before debates).

      But also, I would like to point out an even more obvious joke that the left is intentionally overlooking: if Russia managed to hack the DNC and spearfish Podesta, then they would have also hacked Hillary's private email server, which only had a single, incompetent IT guy messing with it.

      The reality is that Russia probably did hack the DNC and Hillary's email. However, it's far, far more useful to know everything that is happening rather than releasing the inner-workings of the DNC. That barely even hurt Hillary. Podesta's emails absolutely hurt Hillary, but again, most networks refused coverage of the emails, so that was largely moot. Yet, at the same time, there was also no denial that all of the leaks were true, which makes the blanket claim that Russia hacked into them and leaked them a diversion. These are the people that largely control our lives. If Russia did leak them, then that's unfortunate, but it does not change the fact that -- like Snowden in a few cases -- it was good that they did it.

    140. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he wore a wig, there's no way it would be a wig that bad...

      That triple comb-over if definitely real.

    141. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 0

      Poor A/C, typical delusions. The Lard Ass and Chief has already asked for a list of all those that have gone to Climate Change meetings. And has requested that the list state which position those employees have on climate change. How the Nazi's knew who the Jews were was by doing the same thing. Ya, this is troubling.

    142. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      The Swamp is starting to look more like a pond, and is growing still.

    143. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      No, Russia/Putin is not responsible. We ourselves are to blame. And Fear Mongers are Cowards.

    144. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I am. Does Putin's ass taste like cotton candy?

    145. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Is Walter White, for heading the DEA, a Republican? If not, then the Cabinet would be Bi-Partisan?

    146. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by khallow · · Score: 1

      I agree. When I filtered out Trump from my Google search, I still get hits from both clauses. For example, an official government document on the legality of federal employees accepting employment from outside the US (an emolument being a salary or similar compensation for said employment). It appears to be targeted towards people with paid positions on advisory committees for the US's National Institute of Health who might also have paid positions in a foreign government's service. For example, a researcher or teacher who is on such an advisory committee who then accepts a position with a public university in another country or even has said university cover or waive certain costs or payments for a temporary visit (as say, during the course of a conference).

      Given the prevalence of the usage, I'm forced to accept your rebuke.

    147. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Papa Joe Stalin, and Hitler were both monsters. And our Lard Ass and Chief's words look as if they were cut and pasted from speeches these animals gave. Ya, I'm not turning my back on this Ass Hat and Chief.

    148. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Frank+Burly · · Score: 1
      There was a book out called "Liberal Facism" and it put into print the conservative misunderstanding/revisionism that the National Socialists of Germany were actually socialists (they've got the word right in the party name!). From there it is a short leap to treating all leftism as nascent totalitarianism, and treating true rightism (not that uniparty BS, mind you) as leading inevitably to a global Galt's Gulch.

      There is a lot of that on /., and unfortunately in the hinterlands of MI, WI, PA, and OH.

    149. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by mmell · · Score: 1

      Are you into trigonometry, 'cuz that's one helluva tangent!

    150. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Communism didn't fail because there wasn't enough computational power around

      I said central planning failed, not communism. A centrally planned economy was what the Soviet Union ended up with when they gave up on communism.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    151. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The Sparticists were socialists who wanted to follow more in the path of the Bolsheviks. In other words, they were the radical left-of-center. The point was that the Nazis had allied with pepole quite removed from themselves politically while gaining power, not that they were socialists themselves. The whole idea that you can put the Italian Fascists or German Nazis on a simplistic left vs right scale is missing the complexity of the real world.

    152. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. Refusing to put in just an emoji for one particular political platform is eeeeeevvvvillllllll.

      I wonder what would have happened if they put a bright orange emoji with a fake hairdo with hashtag #orangedictator?

    153. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      You are correct sir.
      I have friends and relatives that are still traumatized by what has happened, and they can't believe that Trump is the PE.
      That is, someone with blatant autocratic, racist, xenophobic and nationalist overtones is the PE.
      That is, someone who has supporters that are out-and-proud white nationalists, racists and xenophones.

      People are scared, and rightly so.
      But now especially is not the time to "go down into the bunker" and hide from scary tRump.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    154. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      However, calling that "state capitalism" is a misnomer; that kind of economic system is not a form of capitalism, just like "crony capitalism" isn't a form of capitalism; both of those are politically motivated, misleading terms.

      Wealth concentrates in the hands of those who already have capital. That's capitalism: a system where it's possible to gain an unearned income just from already owning capital. It doesn't matter (for qualifying as capitalism) whether or not the state is meddling in who gets to be the winning capitalists. Capitalism doesn't mean "free market".

      It is true that both fascism and socialism have these as goals. The distinguishing feature between them is that socialism advocates public ownership of the means of production, while fascism advocates strongly regulated private ownership of the means of production (what you called "state capitalism" above).

      Same problem here as we started with, except now you're explicitly spelling out the contradiction. How is private ownership of the means of the production -- presumably here meaning by a relatively few parties, not widely distributed -- allowing those parties to collect an unearned income in virtue of that ownership, at all in line with the goal of eliminating unearned income and distributing wealth more fairly? Fascism is all about the former, and so cannot be about the latter, and the whole thing smells of a politically motivated attempt to equate socialism with fascism.

      "Libertarian socialism" would be a society in which people voluntarily behave according to socialist principles; there is a better name for that society, it's called "communism", and it's Marx's hypothetical endpoint of history. It doesn't exist.

      And the concept of "free market socialism" makes no sense: the whole point of socialism is public ownership of the means of production. You can't have that and simultaneously have anything like a free market.

      Picture a society where ownership of the means of production is widely and fairly evenly distributed -- in individual hands, not through the government. People are allowed to buy or sell things voluntarily, on terms they agree upon. But there is no mechanism whereby having a capital advantages allows you to perpetually increase your capital advantage -- there are no means of collecting an unearned income, whatever those means may be -- so "despite" that free trade, ownership of the means of production stays widely and fairly evenly distributed, in proportion to the actual work that people do, as valued by the rest of the market. That is libertarian socialism, or free market socialism. There is nothing inherently contradictory in it.

      In fact it's just what you would naively expect any free market to be like: those with wealth trade it to those without for their labor to save themselves labor, and in the process wealth naturally trickles down increasing the wealth of the laborers who can then labor a little less while those who had wealth now need to labor some more to get more wealth themselves, and everybody has to work for a living and everybody has some share of the wealth in proportion to their labor (since in absence of differences in labor the wealth levels would naturally equalize). What throws a wrench in that whole beautiful idea is anything that allows those who already have wealth to siphon off the wealth of those who already lack it, getting back what they paid for labor so they can pay for it all over again, and keeping those who already lacked it perpetually lacking it and so subservient to those who already had it. It turns what should be a "water seeking its own level" flow of work and resources into a never-ending waterfall, a perpetual motion machine of injustice.

      The trick is in figuring out what exactly is the means by which capitalists are able to leverage an unearned income, so you can get rid of that. State socialists don't fix that problem, they just take from those who have

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    155. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Nice try hyperbole boy.
      Did user mmell said anything about violence?

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    156. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      I mean, with all these goddamn meetings happening in goddamn Trump Tower, am I the only one thinking that it's like a goddamn prolog to a bad cyberpunk-dystopia novel?

      More like Operation Mindcrime from the 1988 Queensryche album. Except in this version, Doctor X is the guy putting Trump into office.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    157. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      "thinly veiled"!?!
      Ya Think?!?

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    158. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Despite that trend it's worth considering that when some people say Fascist they mean something other than Germans with skulls on their hats.

      That's true, today when people say "fascist" they don't mean Germans with skulls, they mean "people with views which I don't agree with".

    159. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's you that doesn't understand Fascisim. I suggest a well written and researched book instead of Wikipedia.

      I clicked on your link, hoping to see a dispassionate analysis of fascism from an academic poli-sci wonk. Instead, you point to a screed from Jonah Goldberg, contributor to National Review and Fox News, that torturously redefines fascism to fit an anti-liberal agenda.

      Try again.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    160. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by khallow · · Score: 1

      I've since found evidence as well that indicates that even at the federal government level, your clause is described as the emolument (I now have brain cells wasted on the spelling of this word) clause (it was an NIH document from 2008 too). So my apologies for correcting what wasn't wrong.

    161. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Since government doesn't hire all those people, companies do. Since we're not talking the Trump organization here, the jobless numbers can only be reduced if those companies - both big and small - start hiring left and right.

    162. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah that book looks really non biased for sure yeah. And really, Clinton was the one with the cult of personality? That's really cute.

    163. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So is "Make ____ Great Again!" and blaming entire categories of people for all of your economical woes.

      It's weird -- most illegals on the virtue of being poor and well, illegal... there's much less in the northern US states. What excuses do they have for jobs being in the shitter?

    164. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about Mr. Trump here. I'm talking about trump voters. A survey of trump voters found many of them held pro authoritarian points of view that were found to be common among nazi era germans..

      We are talking "Stanford Prison Experiment" on a national scale here. Those are the experiments which have repeatedly shown given an authority figure (who they just met), normal people will escalate amazingly quickly to torturing (even to the point of apparently killing) other human beings with minimal prompting.

      While Mr. Trump shows a strong admiration for authoritarians and has self styled himself as "the dictator" in music videos, he is closer to mussolini than hitler. Mr. Trump has no explicit racial purity stances for example and his racism is more venal, "the jews" are good with money while "the blacks" are lazy and it's fair to deny them housing when they are equally (or even more) qualified to candidates of other races.

      The most likely bad outcomes from Mr. Trump are
      a right wing (not "conservative") supreme court at odds with a majority of the citizens for the rest of my life,
      a loss of workers rights,
      an dramatic increase in open racism,
      Mr. Trump and his family plundering the Country for 1 to 3 billion dollars ("trump change"), a possible hot war with china (which multiple senior members of Mr. Trump's administration are pushing for and think would be a good thing),
      the weakening of NATO and possible transfer of many european countries to Russia's sphere of influence,
      an acceleration of human caused global warming combined with local severe increases in pollution (a return to 'super sites' like we used to get all the time which are basically poisoned for multiple generations),
      an increase in police beatings and executions of minorities,
      and potentially corruption of the line between military and civilian power in the country which has prevented military coups in the past. While qualified this '3 year" exception for the marine general is extremely disturbing. I'm certain there were many other qualified ex military who had been out of the military for 7 or more years for example.

      But it's the voters that scare me. They show a lot of racist tendencies and some of the idiots are openly throwing Hiel Hitler salutes at richard spencer talks and spencer is only 2 steps removed from Mr. Trump. It's disturbing that so many skinheads and ex and current Klan members endorsed and campaigned for Mr Trump.

      Look, I'm a reagan republican who voted for George Bush Sr as well. The administration Mr. Trump is putting together is exactly what he campaigned against on steroids. His narcissistic and sociopathic lying is unprecedented in my experience with political candidates. It's like people just don't care. They want a strong man and anything he does is okay. Normal standards dont' apply.. Evangelicals vote for a multiple adulterer and sexual abuser by a large majority.. They don't care. They want a god on earth who will ban abortion and anything else he does is okay.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    165. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Anonymous Coward said...

      '"Only two of the variables I looked at were statistically significant: [b]authoritarianism, followed by fear of terrorism,[/b] though the former was far more significant than the latter."

      I've talked with people at work who seem to be stereo typical typical "good Christians" and they will bend over backwards to find a way to support pretty much anyone that they think might advance their values, particularly on abortion. It is interesting that abortions have tended to fall more, lately at least, under democratic administrations. snopes. The article mentions that the trend hasn't held forever, but it does seem to have held during the last several presidents.

      I don't know I suppose I can understand they find it to be an important issue, but I just can't accept the letting rome burn to get it attitude as rational. You don't buy a car from a known con man just because you liked the color of the seats.'

      And mixed with them are republican women who are shocked that republicans are passing laws like the new ohio law which essentially makes abortion illegal before most women know they are pregnant (at 6-7 weeks).

      That's the crazy thing is that Mr. Trump said women should be punished and abortion should be illegal. Republican state legislatures have passed law after law to make abortion illegal and yet republican women didn't believe the men meant what they were saying.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    166. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works for Mighty Martian

    167. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      That's capitalism: a system where it's possible to gain an unearned income just from already owning capital.

      That's possible. It's also possible that you lose capital by investing. That's why most billionaires in the US today did so through their own work, rather than inheritance.

      The trick is in figuring out what exactly is the means by which capitalists are able to leverage an unearned income, so you can get rid of that.

      Why would you want to "get rid of that"? That's where business investments, retirement benefits, government infrastructure investments, insurance, and pretty much every other long term benefit comes from. If you got rid of that, you'd simply end up with a lot of individually owned corporations (like the Koch brothers) that ordinary people would have no ability to invest in.

      Picture a society where ownership of the means of production is widely and fairly evenly distributed -- in individual hands, not through the government.

      Such a society doesn't exist. If you have free markets, you get a high degree of inequality, but even the poorest people in a free market economy tend to be better off than they would be in a low inequality society. That is, reducing inequality makes everybody poorer.

    168. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by guises · · Score: 1

      Uh... huh. Fascism is about war. No, for serious, stop spewing about Hillary just for two minutes and read the article that you linked. Fascism came from the massive upheaval caused by Word War One, and was basically just about codifying that as a means for governing a state in perpetuity. Saying "It's about many ideas" is like saying that driving a car is about wheels spinning as much as it is about transportation. Fascist economics were just a means to an end. In fact, the reason why fascist economics were so uninterestingly centrist was to avoid internal conflict - a unified country is a strong country and all that.

    169. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet you are, you fashy leftist.

    170. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to "get rid of that"? That's where business investments, retirement benefits, government infrastructure investments, insurance, and pretty much every other long term benefit comes from. If you got rid of that, you'd simply end up with a lot of individually owned corporations (like the Koch brothers) that ordinary people would have no ability to invest in.

      Owning stock is not automatically collecting an unearned income. Not in the way lending at interest or renting out property are. I have no objection to companies being held by arbitrarily many parties instead of just one or a few, in fact that's a good way to make sure that capital is broadly distributed -- a socialist end.

      If you have free markets, you get a high degree of inequality

      Do you realize that it was Marx who put that proposition forward, and in doing so equated free markets with capitalism? The original market proponents like Smith and Mill saw markets as (though they didn't have the term) a socialist thing, encouraging greater equality. Marx was wrong, and you're promulgating his error, in opposition to the founders of the free market economics I'm sure you nominally cherish.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    171. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod you up so more people could learn of this. Thanks for sharing that, it explains a lot.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    172. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Fascism came from the massive upheaval caused by Word War One, and was basically just about codifying that as a means for governing a state in perpetuity.

      Correct. That historical perspective isn't mutually exclusive with what I was saying. From the development of government propaganda to price controls, regulations, government funded transportation networks, education, healthcare, retirement, racial policies, and Keynesian stimuli, US progressivism (and the rise of the Democrats) is an outgrowth of the "massive upheavals" of the World Wars and an attempt to perpetuate wartime policies and a military-like structure in post-war civilian life.

    173. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      The original market proponents like Smith and Mill saw markets as (though they didn't have the term) a socialist thing, encouraging greater equality

      And Smith was right: relative to the unfree economic systems of the time, free markets promoted greater equality. However, relative to the socialist ideal, free markets create more inequality, but they also create more wealth, for everybody.

      Owning stock is not automatically collecting an unearned income. Not in the way lending at interest or renting out property are. I have no objection to companies being held by arbitrarily many parties instead of just one or a few, in fact that's a good way to make sure that capital is broadly distributed -- a socialist end.

      If making income from investments isn't "unearned income", what exactly do you think is "unearned income" then? And why do you use the term differently from the way people like Sanders or Clinton use it?

    174. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by guises · · Score: 1

      There's a guy above who describes this well here and here. In light of his description I'll add something to what I said above: Fascism came about just as Communism was taking off, with its central planning, and just as we were getting away from the laissez faire economics of the 1800s, with its extreme inequality and massive poverty. When I called Fascist economics centrist I was doing so in that context - as it was implemented it had some central planning, and some market capitalism.

    175. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No offense but citing polls as an accurate sampling of anything is severely misleading, if the recent election has taught us anything. A Politico National Poll has about as much value as a turkey sandwich.

    176. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LBJ owned lots of businesses, including radio and TV stations. He put those in a trust run by his wife - and that was sufficient.

      Since I moved to Texas 20+ years ago, I've become convinced it was not. When I complain how much his businesses benefited from his presidency and the sweetheart deals he got from the FCC, people act like I'm condemning The Lord himself. I know less about the Kennedy's, but I was born after he became president.

      But I get it. Trump.

      I'm not hypocritical on this. But I get it. Fuck you too.

    177. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      And Smith was right: relative to the unfree economic systems of the time, free markets promoted greater equality.

      And the systems they had in place at the time were more capitalist than the free markets they promoted. Freedom of the market made it harder for being a big rich existing player to get you an advantage, easier for the little guys to compete with them, less capitalistic.

      If making income from investments isn't "unearned income", what exactly do you think is "unearned income" then?

      You're throwing around "investments" in an overly-vague fashion. It is possible to make an unearned income from "investments", and I oppose that. If you "invest" by lending money at interest, that is an unearned income. If you "invest" by buying real estate and renting it out, that is unearned income. Anything where someone is paying you just because you own something they want to use; in one word, usury, in its original sense of "a fee for use".

      But if you "invest" by building a business (buying the equipment you need to do work, advertising to get customers, etc), that's earned income. (Presuming the business income comes from doing actual work and not the aforementioned kinds of parasitism). If you and a partner "invest" in building a business together, that's earned income. If you "invest" by buying into a preexisting partnership as a new third (or fourth, etc) partner, that's still earned income. Buying a share of a publicly traded company is just a continuation of that.

      And why do you use the term differently from the way people like Sanders or Clinton use it?

      Because I'm employing more nuanced political and economic philosophy than usually flies in the mainstream political discourse, where anything beyond "D good, R bad" or vice versa flies over the heads of most people.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    178. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      It is possible to make an unearned income from "investments", and I oppose that. If you "invest" by lending money at interest, that is an unearned income. If you "invest" by buying real estate and renting it out, that is unearned income. Anything where someone is paying you just because you own something they want to use; in one word, usury, in its original sense of "a fee for use". But if you "invest" by building a business (buying the equipment you need to do work, advertising to get customers, etc), that's earned income

      And where is that new business owner going to get the money from for his new business? He might, of course, have inherited it. But if he hasn't, he needs to get it from someone else, a loan. And the money for that loan needs to come from somewhere. The person who gives him that money will want a share of the profit in return. And, voila, you have "unearned income" and capitalism.

      If you disallow contracts of the form "I give you some money for a share of your profits in the future", by definition, you don't have a free market anymore. Furthermore, if you disallow such contracts, people have no incentive to lend money to businesses, and so the only people who can start new businesses are rich people. That really isn't particularly conducive to economic growth or fairness.

    179. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      things you forgot to mention:

      "capitalism" requires "capital" -- not credit, not debt notes, not IOUs, not "checks", not "Cash" that is really just unredeemable "credit"

      the primary characteristic of "fascism" and "socialism" is the "Capitalists" will happily fund either, so long as they get a return on their investment.

      capitalism vs socialism are orthogonal issues,

      nope. crony capitalism, usury capitalism, loan capitalism, monopoly capitalism, all inevitably lead to "socialism". marx said as much.

      they are a chain of progression. you can put "communism" before or after "socialism" but crooked "capitalism" is what leads to "reform"

      and the aim of a fairer distribution of wealth, is not fascism but socialism

      you sound too academical, with no idea of reality.

      the "Capitalists" and "socialists" and "fascists" are all in agreement on this idea. even the "churches" are.

      it is just a question of what is "fair" and who is on the giving and receiving end of this "fairness"

      the "capitalists" love "redistribution" and, as you say about the "socialists" they would gladly say they are not "Statist" but it is all "voluntary"

    180. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But statism explicitly entrenching inequalities, as in fascism, is bad on top of bad, when contrasted with a state actually working toward equality.

      This is where you appear blind. Any "statism" is "Working towards equality" it is just "the equality of the people who are in power" versus your "Equality" of "Everyone else"

      Also, for what it's worth, Stalinism and its derivatives were generally considered, sometimes by themselves and usually by other contemporary socialists and communists, to be forms of state capitalism ostensibly as a transitional form on the way to state socialism

      Thank you for clarifying. This is 100% in contrast to your previous assertion:

      capitalism vs socialism are orthogonal issues,

      In theory they are "orthogonal" in reality, not so much.

    181. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he president can accept personal gifts of all sorts from American citizens

      I'm not so sure. USPS employees we could not accept $1 "gift" or "donation" from "American citizens" (or anyone else) because it is seen as "bribes"

      So, the trick is, how to make these "gifts" not be "bribes". IF the lowly postal government employee cannot accept $1 of a "gift" then I cannot see why a "president" can, unless there are "exemptions"

      It would be quite crooked to argue USPS cannot be "bribed" but the president can.

      If some can clarify "bribe" versus "gift" that seems to be the key word here.

    182. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Whether it's 'histiorical' or 'ethical' is one thing......laws have changed since LBJ. I was merely pointing out that Trump's kids could come under attack, even if Trump himself doesn't.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    183. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      The laws about Presidential exemption have not changed, however. And Trump's family will always come under fire even if they were exact clones of the Clinton or Obama clans - simply because of the name Trump.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    184. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The laws about Presidential exemption have not changed, however.

      Those laws don't cover non-presidents.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    185. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      If you disallow contracts of the form "I give you some money for a share of your profits in the future", by definition, you don't have a free market anymore.

      The state declining to enforce certain arbitrary obligations between parties does not make the market not free. You can buy and sell things -- real actual things, not abstract legal constructs -- at whatever price to whomever will agree to it, and nobody will stop you. That's all it takes to make a market free. Otherwise the unenforceability of contracts selling yourself into slavery or any of many other onerous terms considered to make many contracts unenforceable -- or the complete absence of a state to enforce the contracts at all -- would make a market "unfree". Saying "you can't have a freedom without slavery" or "you can't have freedom without the state" sound patently absurd to most, and "you can't have freedom without usury" is every bit as absurd.

      Also, "I give you some money for a share of your profits in the future" does not describe a loan, that describes buying a share of a company, which I've said is fine. Loan repayment is not contingent on future profitability; lenders don't get more or less interest on loans depending on how well the borrower is doing. Giving a business money in exchange for a share of their future profits -- buying shares -- is no different from saying "hey I think you make good widgets, I'll pay for the advertising and stuff like that if you bring the widget-making gear and we can go into business together, split the proceeds", except a bit further abstracted.

      Furthermore, if you disallow such contracts, people have no incentive to lend money to businesses, and so the only people who can start new businesses are rich people. That really isn't particularly conducive to economic growth or fairness.

      First see above, and then think: what are people with capital beyond their personal use going to do with it if they can't lend it out for profit? If it's useless to "invest" that way, and they still want to enjoy the benefits their capital, they'll either have to trade it away buying goods and services from others (which then profits those others who can then use that money to start or grow their own business), or go into business with others by buying stock (with which money the others can again start or grow their businesses).

      Likewise, capital like land, if it can't be rented out, will have to be sold off (on whatever terms the market of people who need it to live in, rather than to rent out, can afford), lest it be of no value at all, so in the absence of rent, ownership will naturally, voluntarily, become more distributed. That's the whole point. The way things are done right now is not the only way they can be done, it's just the way that most benefits those who already own everything. If those ways weren't available, things would be done in other ways instead, ways that still benefit those with more, temporarily, not perpetually, and in a way that diminishes that advantage as it happens.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    186. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You believe Hillary is the one surrounded by a cult of personality? I take it you have never heard of Trump's rallies (about as Fascist as you can get, if you want to be honest) or taken a look at The Donald subreddit.

    187. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      buying shares -- is no different from saying "hey I think you make good widgets, I'll pay for the advertising and stuff like that if you bring the widget-making gear and we can go into business together, split the proceeds", except a bit further abstracted.

      So you agree then that buying/selling shares and profiting from them is necessary and should be allowed. How about derivatives, options, and futures? How about insurance? Contracts of the form "I give you $x and you give me $y if some condition arises"? How about funds, where someone bundles a whole bunch of shares together and then sells shares in that bundle? I still don't see any consistent line between what you consider valid and invalid "unearned income".

      The state declining to enforce certain arbitrary obligations between parties does not make the market not free. ... Otherwise the unenforceability of contracts selling yourself into slavery or any of many other onerous terms considered to make many contracts unenforceable -- or the complete absence of a state to enforce the contracts at all -- would make a market "unfree".

      State enforcement of contracts is not necessary for free markets or for enforceable contracts.

    188. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many will fit in the ovens?

    189. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So - how is it a conflict of interest for his family (who are NOT in Government) to run a business? Like Lady Bird Johnson did for LBJ? Like the Kennedy clan did for JFK? Like Bill and Chelsea did for Hillary?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    190. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol do you realize how retarded you sound?

    191. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You poor fuck. American authoritarians are LEFT-feminazi-LEFT-sand.niggar-LEFT-rad-ecology-LEFT-snowflake-sensitives-left-GLOBALIST-media-$$$-thugs ( Page, Soros, Zberg etc) and a slut.gang crew of neo.Trotsky herded sheeple. If history provides a textbook, then in America Trump yeomanry will cut-you-down and toss you in the gutter for dogs to eat.

    192. Re: Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i forget is it still ok to go after the clinton foundation for selling out the country?

    193. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by KeensMustard · · Score: 1

      Trump might be using the presidency as a vehicle to advance his business empire. On the other hand, we know that Clinton absolutely would have used the presidency for self-enrichment, so it's really a wash. We were going to end up with that anyway.

      Who cares what Clinton might or might not have done?

      In any case, these days, I assume that any statement about Clinton that sniffs of hyperbole comes from Trump's propaganda department. For example, high up members of Trump's campaign said that Hillary smelt of sulfur, so she must be a devil. Not exactly the sort of people that can be trusted to reflect reality.

    194. Re:Am I in a goddamn cyberpunk novel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or that there's a factual record of the Clintons enriching themselves through public service...

      But that's ok, keep your head firmly planted up her dusty vagina.

  4. Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Twitter is a chat program. And they keep censoring things. Stupid things. In crazy hypocritical ways.

    They're not DESERVING of being included in jack shit when it comes to america.

    1. Re:Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Twitter is a chat program. And they keep censoring things. Stupid things. In crazy hypocritical ways.

      Do you have some examples? They certainly aren't censoring the "stupid things" that Trump tweets out, or any of the hateful garbage he Tweets out, either.

    2. Re:Fuck twitter. by zieroh · · Score: 1

      Twitter is a chat program.

      For the record, Twitter is not a fucking "chat program". First, nobody except my Aunt Josephine calls anything a "program" any more, and when Aunty J says it she's talking about Lawrence Welk. Second, Twitter is a platform to broadcast every idiotic thought that anyone has to the fucking world, simultaneously. Which means it's a fucking blog. And a microblog at that.

      Fuck me. It's like slashdot now lets complete technical retrogrades post here. No wonder this place is overrun by douchebags who think burning down the country is good governance.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    3. Re:Fuck twitter. by tgv · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The fact that you don't call something a program isn't meaningful, is it? It's not a microblog either. Twitter is a company, if you insist on being literal.

      > It's like slashdot now lets complete technical retrogrades post here.

      What does Twitter have to do with technology? I don't see it. Their "tech" is so humble that even your aunt couldn't possibly be impressed by it.

    4. Re: Fuck twitter. by mmell · · Score: 2

      Agreed. Twitter is already Donald Drumpf's personal megaphone - and they never even thought about censoring the lying piece of shit that is now our President-elect. Why would they need any reassuring from Herr Drumpf?

    5. Re:Fuck twitter. by speedplane · · Score: 1

      First, nobody except my Aunt Josephine calls anything a "program" any more

      Oh Aunty J... made it a pleasure to hike through the snow to remove the spywares from her Windows 98 AOL message chat rooms just for a taste of warm new england charm.

      --
      Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
    6. Re:Fuck twitter. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      BULLSHIT.

      Twitter bans people who harass other people. They are happy to allow pretty much everything else, including neo nazis, supporters of paedophila, the alt-right, white supremacists etc. They strongly defend people when law enforcement starts demanding their details too.

      You are just butthurt that your favourite harassers got banned. That's not censorship, that's enforcing the most basic rules on how users conduct themselves.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Fuck twitter. by Calydor · · Score: 1

      So what exactly is Notepad? Microsoft Excel? That fancy little thingamajig I install to watch my bandwidth usage?

      Are they not programs? If not, what are they? Are we calling everything apps now?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    8. Re:Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Twitter is a chat program. And they keep censoring things. Stupid things. In crazy hypocritical ways.

      They're not DESERVING of being included in jack shit when it comes to america.

      ... but Breitbart is entitled to dictate White House strategy?

    9. Re:Fuck twitter. by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Failing to create an emoji version of one political campaign's slogan is hardly "censoring things".

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    10. Re:Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe there's an app to app that app you have apped up your ass.

      Get with the program, trolly-hop.

    11. Re:Fuck twitter. by zieroh · · Score: 1

      The fact that you don't call something a program isn't meaningful, is it?

      It is. It tells us something about the AC.

      It's not a microblog either. Twitter is a company, if you insist on being literal.

      Twitter is also a company, yes. But their platform is also called "Twitter". So go figure. Neither one is a "program".

      What does Twitter have to do with technology? I don't see it. Their "tech" is so humble that even your aunt couldn't possibly be impressed by it.

      If you'll re-read my post carefully, I think you'll see that my comment about technical retrogrades was applied to slashdot, not Twitter. Slashdot isn't the haven for technically adept people that it used to be. Clearly.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    12. Re:Fuck twitter. by zieroh · · Score: 1

      So what exactly is Notepad? Microsoft Excel? That fancy little thingamajig I install to watch my bandwidth usage?

      Are they not programs? If not, what are they? Are we calling everything apps now?

      Yes, we're calling everything apps now. Or applications, if you like. "Programs" stopped being a technical term several decades ago.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    13. Re:Fuck twitter. by tgv · · Score: 1

      > If you'll re-read my post carefully

      It's a rant, not a post. You're overestimating yourself.

    14. Re:Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See? trump made america great again. it allowed non technical people to post to an alleged technical forum. so people like you could make themselves feel better by nitpicking their posts, thereby increasing SNR. aint america great now!

    15. Re:Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if it's not a LUDDITE program, does that make it an appy app app, you apping appy apper?

      Apps!

    16. Re:Fuck twitter. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Of course they are not LUDDITE programs! They are appy app apps that allow you to app your appy apps!

      Apps!

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    17. Re:Fuck twitter. by Calydor · · Score: 1

      I just checked my file structure.

      Stuff installs to Program Files and Program Files (x86), not to App Files, Application Files, or any other variation thereof.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    18. Re:Fuck twitter. by zieroh · · Score: 1

      I just checked my file structure.

      Stuff installs to Program Files and Program Files (x86), not to App Files, Application Files, or any other variation thereof.

      Like I said, "Programs" stopped being a technical term several decades ago. Your OS clearly supports that notion.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    19. Re:Fuck twitter. by zieroh · · Score: 1

      > If you'll re-read my post carefully

      It's a rant, not a post. You're overestimating yourself.

      This is slashdot. The terms are synonymous.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    20. Re:Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the record, Twitter is not a fucking "chat program". First, nobody except my Aunt Josephine calls anything a "program" any more,

      It's like slashdot now lets complete technical retrogrades post here.

      LOL. You missed the "neograde" where the browser is now the "OS"

      Check out general electric's new "operating system". It of course is "cloudy" and not an "OS" at all,
      but they call it that. On TV, on their website, everywhere. Ditto any other "cloud" vendor.

      Why jump on someone using the actual definition of "program" ?

      The "neogrades" stole "apps" and they decided the browser was the "OS".

      So, calling websites "programs" is somehow the tipping point for you?

      For fuck's sake, you created the problem. Wasn't the luddites or the "Retrogrades"

      We told you the OS is not an "operating system" by traditional definition.

      "applets" at least was halfway honest.

      It is your own fault for being loose with definitions. If the browser is an "OS" now according to your "modern" definitions, then it is your own fault if websites are now "programs"

      You broke it, you bought it.

    21. Re:Fuck twitter. by zieroh · · Score: 1

      LOL. You missed the "neograde" where the browser is now the "OS"

      I didn't miss it. I chose not to address it, since AC could have been talking about a mobile app, which a huge number of people use instead of the web for platforms like Twitter. It was ambiguous, and so not worth arguing.

      Why jump on someone using the actual definition of "program" ?

      Because it means they probably do not belong on slashdot.

      So, calling websites "programs" is somehow the tipping point for you?

      It is the hill that I chose to die on, yes.

      For fuck's sake, you created the problem.

      And this right here is a fine time to point out that you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. *I* did nothing of the sort. You can just fuck right off now.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    22. Re: Fuck twitter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what should we rename the process of app creation? Apping? Done by appers?

  5. Bite The Hand That Feeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He is biting the hand that feeds him. Unless Trump wants to make nice with the MSM, then he might want to consider the platform that gives him unaccounted for broadcast some respect.

    1. Re:Bite The Hand That Feeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump has been bitch slapping the MSM for a while, and like battered wives they keep coming back to cover for him.

      But it's telling that all these left wing tech icons decided to show up - so don't believe a word they say after this.

    2. Re:Bite The Hand That Feeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As much as they might want to (and I'd love to see it) Twitter can't ban Trump, because it would destroy what little actual value remains in their company. Their stock would tank and they'd get sued by shareholders.

      Trump is the best thing to happen to Twitter and vice versa. Trump just needed to show Twitter who's the top and who's the bottom in their relationship.

  6. Wow, and just think... by Kargan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Some of us were worried that Trump was going to be petty, and seek revenge against those who he felt wronged him in the past, especially during the campaign.

    Whew, sure glad to see that's not the case!

    --
    Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
    1. Re:Wow, and just think... by postbigbang · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The roster of suck-ups at the meeting is somehwat harrowing. The photos of the expressions on their faces are priceless.

      And to those that didn't make it there-- your integrity is intact. No slime, no foul, no tainted deals that will drain your legal dept dry in four years.

      Who was missing at the table? People. Labor. The schmucks that do the actual work, like you and I. Larry Ellison? Gates? Zuck? Kravitz? Nope, not there either.

      There is the 0.5%, the next 0.5% (some present at the meeting, especially those with outer space plans), and the 99% (us) were, um, kinda missing.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    2. Re:Wow, and just think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, it's nice to be proven wrong about people every one in a while. To think we all saw him as a fascist narcissist before he got elected.

    3. Re:Wow, and just think... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Flamebait? C'mon, that was funny, even for Republicans.

      Anyhow, maybe when Twitter actually earns a significant profit (last quarter was their first, I believe?) they can sit at the big boys' table. They're an important company more in stature / mindshare than in their bottom line. I'm pretty sure Trump knows how to read an earnings report.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Wow, and just think... by elrous0 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Well, considering that Twitter has all but declared open war on Trump in particular and conservatism in general, I hardly think it's petty for Trump to tell them to go fuck themselves. What the fuck makes them think they're somehow *entitled* to a sit-down with a President who they routinely call a racist, sexist, homophobe, clone-of-Hitler?

      If I stand in town square every day and call the mayor of my town a vile cocksucker who beats puppies, should I be mad when he doesn't invite me to his Christmas party?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:Wow, and just think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gates talked with Trump on the phone. Afterwards Gate said Trump had the potential to create growth âoethrough innovationâ. The people in the most recent meeting were there to kiss Trump's ass and beg forgiveness for their statements during the election. These morons made a fatal mistake with their over the top criticisms of Trump. They bet everything on the wrong horse and lost. Making an enemy of the President can have serious consequences. The MSM also came out of the closet and lost any credibility or journalistic neutrality they may have had and now has to deal with a President who has no reason to turn the other cheek or let bygones be bygone. He started by refusing to let the press pool travel with him which is usually SOP. It will be interesting to see if he will allow the press on Airforce 1 or make the press make their own travel arrangements. The MSM has lost it's claim on any privileges they may have had when covering a President.

    6. Re:Wow, and just think... by DogDude · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Making an enemy of the President can have serious consequences.

      Oh, does it, mein fuhrer?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    7. Re:Wow, and just think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Some of us were worried that Trump was going to be petty, and seek revenge against those who he felt wronged him in the past, especially during the campaign.

      Whew, sure glad to see that's not the case!

      The sad part is that Trump is not the real problem. Oh he is a problem and a Huuuuuge one, but not the real one. The differences this election were stark. You had basic average long time somewhat uninspiring centrist versus Trump who was largely:

      1) Substance Free
      2) Fact Free
      3) Full of obvious appeals to emotion. Fear the Terrorists. Do it Now!
      4) Morals Free. Gram em by the p***y.
      5) Full's of obvious appeals to racists and misogynists. Birthirism and all the crap about Hillary being sick, weak, tired, and all the rest.

      All in all the real problem is a completely unqualified con man who I find to be the worst example of humanity to ever win the nomination of a major party in my lifetime was able to run on a stack of lies and win. How do you recover from that? Seriously how do you recover from that? You think there is a shortage of Trump's in this world? I seriously doubt it. This playbook will be used again, and again, and again.

      Even now, Trump is admitting he lied on things like Birthirism, lock her up, Trump U, drain the swamp, obamacare, etc and there seems to be no real backlash about it.

      The electors should take all this into account, along with all his foreign entanglements, and the fact that he is still hiding his taxes, even from them, and for the love of common decency choose someone else. Hell, the Clinton elector's would probably pick Romney if you asked them. Sure without the hacking and Comey's nonsense Hillary would have won, but at this point I'd be thrilled to get Mitt Romney. At least he had enough ethics not to apologize for telling the truth, even if he did suck up a little post election. Fundamentally he seems to be a good man, with policies I don't agree with, but a good man, and he probably wouldn't put putin's pall in charge of state.

    8. Re:Wow, and just think... by meerling · · Score: 2

      Ja, dictators are like, while democracies aren't supposed to be. In fact, the US has rules and laws that are supposed to prevent that, but it takes somebody in authority to press the issue for them to be enforced.

    9. Re:Wow, and just think... by gnuhost · · Score: 1

      Do you really wanna talk about Hitlary revenges? You ha whole block of media companies facing shutdown, and she LOST. Imagine if she wins. Look man, this is the end. Get over it

    10. Re: Wow, and just think... by mmell · · Score: 1

      Ja, Herr underfuhrer.

    11. Re: Wow, and just think... by mmell · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is the end. Funny - somehow, I always expected to have a hand in the apocalypse. Oh, well . . .

    12. Re:Wow, and just think... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      In short, he is the kind of oick that you expect to become a dictator in a banana republic.

      How is the American banana harvest doing these days?

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    13. Re:Wow, and just think... by Mashiki · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Oh, does it, mein fuhrer?

      You should ask the Obama administration. Just a reminder that the IRS targeted "tea party groups." Multiple people within the IRS resigned, there are multiple cases before the courts. The inspector general stated that the IRS was indeed targeting those right-wing groups and protecting democrat groups. Oh, and the IRS and Obama administration are still stonewalling on the reasoning or even documents as to why they were targeting those groups.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    14. Re:Wow, and just think... by ACE209 · · Score: 1

      ... who I find to be the worst example of humanity to ever win the nomination of a major party in my lifetime ...

      Undecided here between Trump and Bush Jr.

      His election was the final confirmation I needed to realize that it is not about talents but money and influence.

      --
      "we are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
    15. Re:Wow, and just think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe it really makes sense to avoid the likes of Twitter as a future head of government?

      The left never got tired of telling everyone "it's not censorship when private companies do it" whenever Twitter censored opposing opinions. It's only logical that the government, which has to abide by free speech laws, shuns these companies.

    16. Re:Wow, and just think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should ask the Obama administration. Just a reminder that the IRS targeted "tea party groups." Multiple people within the IRS resigned, there are multiple cases before the courts. The inspector general stated that the IRS was indeed targeting those right-wing groups and protecting democrat groups. Oh, and the IRS and Obama administration are still stonewalling on the reasoning or even documents as to why they were targeting those groups.

      Yes, the IRS targeted Tea Party groups - for more scrutiny in approving their tax-exempt status (as groups "operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare" - does that sound like the Tea Party?). But no group was denied tax exempt status, much less suffer any other serious harm.

    17. Re:Wow, and just think... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      more BS from you.

      the IRS targeted multiple groups, on both sides, that appeared to be violating the law concerning 501c status.

      the law on 501c is pretty clear. putting the name "tea party" in their name simply made them more visible, more brazen, in doing it.

      other keywords investigated included: "progressive," "occupy," "Israel," "open source software," "medical marijuana" and "occupied territory advocacy"

      further, no groups actually had their 501c status revoked or denied, and the ones that were delayed the longest were "occupy" related groups.

      The inspector general stated that the IRS was [..] protecting democrat groups

      no, the IG did not say that.
      he said:

      The IRS used inappropriate criteria that identified for review Tea Party and other organizations applying for tax-exempt status based upon their names or policy positions instead of indications of potential political campaign intervention.

      He also came to the conclusion that ultimately there was no wrong doing, and no specific targeting of a specific political side, but that the investigation gave the impression of impropriety by essentially taking a shortcut, looking at names of groups and policy positions, rather than looking directly for improper campaign involvement, which is the part that is actually illegal. while the names and positions may be an indicator, it isn't a garuntee of violating the 501c rules.

      the GI was then criticized by both sides of the aisle, who both read into his report what they wanted to.

      oh, and it was revealed that the IG himself had been requested by one Darrel Issa (R-CA) "to narrowly focus [his investigation] on Tea Party organizations" the IRS looked at, rather than all groups (that included liberal groups) the IRS targeted for scrutiny.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    18. Re: Wow, and just think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, and the IRS and Obama administration are still stonewalling on the reasoning or even documents as to why they were targeting those groups.

      The reason has been stated flat-out. Primarily political groups do not qualify for non-profit status. The "tea party" acknowledges it is a political movement. So the IRS is obligated to their due diligence. The tea party, being professional victims, of course, declare themselves oppressed when you look at them.

      Given that we know numerous cases of people resigning who did no wrong such as Shirley Sherrod, you can't assume from that. In fact, the reports come up with no evidence of wrongdoing and no criminal investigations have resulted in convictions.

      Sorry, but everything you've said is false. Oh, but we knew that.

    19. Re:Wow, and just think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To piggy-back on this post (which is correct), there were more Republican groups (like the Tea Party), because they are the opposition party. There were just more Republican groups to go after. Further, 501(c)(4) groups are scams. They are supposed to be "social welfare organizations" that neither support nor oppose a candidate. So many of these groups violate that requirement that the law can't be saved. We should just eliminate the 501(c)(4) rule all together.

      I have no sympathy for groups targeted by the sweep since they were likely fraudulent anyway. But, they got what they wanted, I guess. They bitched about it, so there was no way to actually shut anyone down or it would be framed as political reprisal. So much for law.

    20. Re:Wow, and just think... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      the IRS targeted multiple groups, on both sides, that appeared to be violating the law concerning 501c status.

      Sure was. ~496 right-leaning groups vs 12. Much both sides, you read the articles right? You read the IG report? You saw the part where the IG said that the IRS was targeting particular groups. You also saw the part where multiple people quit in the IRS when it came to light that they were targeting groups at the behest of high-level bureaucrats within the IRS. And that the Obama and IRS are still stonewalling, which is why there are still nearly 50 lawsuits on going.

      further, no groups actually had their 501c status revoked or denied, and the ones that were delayed the longest were "occupy" related groups.

      Uh No. Even the IRS has said it will "stop targeting those groups." One of those groups has been waiting since 2009. Occupy started in 2011.

      He also came to the conclusion that ultimately there was no wrong doing, and no specific targeting of a specific political side, but that the investigation gave the impression of impropriety by essentially taking a shortcut, looking at names of groups and policy positions, rather than looking directly for improper campaign involvement, which is the part that is actually illegal. while the names and positions may be an indicator, it isn't a garuntee of violating the 501c rules.

      Would you like to save face now and read the report, or shall we just start with a quote directly from it:

      The IRS used inappropriate criteria that identified for review Tea Party and other organizations applying for tax-exempt status based upon their names or policy positions instead of indications of potential political campaign intervention. Ineffective management:
       
        1) allowed inappropriate criteria to be developed and stay in place for more than 18 months,
       
        2) resulted in substantial delays in processing certain applications, and
       
      3) allowed unnecessary information requests to be issued.

      In other words, yes the IRS targeted those groups. And yes, your post is full of bullshit.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    21. Re:Wow, and just think... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Or it could be that Twitter brings absolutely nothing of value to the discussion in comparison to the combined $3 Trillion worth of companies that were represented.

      Twitter just isn't relevant in a room that contains the C-level execs of Apple, Alphabet, Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, Amazon, and Tesla / SpaceX.

      Musk barely makes the cut for this gathering, and his companies actually make things of value. Unlike Twitter.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  7. BeauHD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one cares about you slanted political hype pieces.

    1. Re:BeauHD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      His a a childish buffoon who shouldn't have access to the nuclear codes. He's the kind of president you'd expect a third-world country to have. It doesn't matter if a two-bit third-world president screw things up, not many people are affected, but here we're talking about the leader of the free world. The impact could be extremely detrimental to the well being of the west. This is not a game, this is serious.

  8. I don't believe a word of this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Especially if it was written at Politico. #FakeNews

    1. Re:I don't believe a word of this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waiting for Alex Jones and Breitbart to report on this?

    2. Re: I don't believe a word of this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Politico has one, anonymous source. Meanwhile, the Trump has openly denied the story. It's literally they (Trump et al) said vs. "some guy" said. Guess which side the media believes. Step back for a second and ask yourself if the anonymous story is really credible, not of the circus clown you might want to believe Trump is, but of the guy who just got won the most difficult political contest in the US. If you can't do that, step back from the vomputer, grab a beer, have a smoke, and come back to the question relaxed: this kind of incredible fake news only works on you when your brain is hyperactive from too much web surfing.

      This is why the media has lost credibility. This story is literally fake news.

    3. Re: I don't believe a word of this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The media lost credibility because people prefer to read news that reenfieces their biases.

    4. Re: I don't believe a word of this.. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      The media lost credibility because people prefer to read news that reenfieces their biases.

      I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it doesn't sound sanitary.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    5. Re: I don't believe a word of this.. by meerling · · Score: 1

      He's still an assclown, he always has been, this election campaign just got more press for it.

    6. Re: I don't believe a word of this.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You made me choke on my water you insensitive clod!

  9. Works both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "while Twitter claims to be a venue that promotes the free exchange of ideas, it's clear that it's leadership's left wing ideology literally trumps that."

    So he would have been A-OK with Twitter approving an emoji of Trump taking it from Putin or grabbing women's pussies?

    1. Re:Works both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "while Twitter claims to be a venue that promotes the free exchange of ideas, it's clear that it's leadership's left wing ideology literally trumps that."

      Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that. It sounds like the complete opposite of /r/The_Donald. "The last bastion of free speech on the internet," as long as that speech is pro-Trump. Make any comment that doesn't bow down to Dear Leader and they'll permanently ban you.

    2. Re:Works both ways by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking more a cheat with a face on it.

    3. Re: Works both ways by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Have you looked at /r/politics lately?

  10. Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump is the new boogyman, he does everything that is bad to america. He and his russian allies are to blame for every past, present and future event that you can think of.
    Trump is also the antichrist, and hes an alien too, a reptilian. Oh, and he can shapeshift, read minds and control people at will! So anything you think you did that you didnt like, it was probably trump that made you do it.
    Not only that, but he has regular contact with satan, in fact he is satans little brother, they enjoy eating babies in his bathroom every night.

    Remember kids, if you dont like something you see out in the world, just blame it on trump!

    1. Re:Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks Trumpbama

    2. Re:Boogyjman by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 2

      Yes, those childish, petty liberals, trying to pin blame on Trump for a company not being invited to Trump Tower to meet with Trump.

    3. Re:Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why Not The Republicans Blamed everything on Obama.
      And will continue to do so.

    4. Re:Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Those liberals keep complaining about the electoral college.

      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266035509162303492?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034630820507648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034630820507648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

      And claiming the election was rigged in polling places and the media.

      https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/787699930718695425?lang=en

      And questioning the legitimacy of the president.

      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/137559273394802690?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/203568571148800001?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/207495823750205440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/207875027008368640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/207897542971752448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/207907352412831744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/225258011894104065?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/225620165138726912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/225622462770061312?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/226019096460918784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/226317290239582208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/227504536317734912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/232572505238433794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/240116141446537216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/240117754970132480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/240442968379629569?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/240811658786783232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/246272201710518272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/252850650784882688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/262557984817823744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/262955491309805568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/313730158869741568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/315236584020643840?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/331898523119415296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/351505671851737089?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/366514186664153089?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/370646948081975296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/370646987227414529?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
      https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/536653754029047808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    5. Re:Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so. the election pretty much pointed out that even democrats who voted him in last time went for Trump this election. And as long as democrats continue on the path they were following this will happen again and again.

    6. Re:Boogyjman by zieroh · · Score: 1

      Fair is fair. After all, Obama was accused of all the same things (literally, figuratively, and analogously).

      I think it's in the job description.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    7. Re:Boogyjman by zieroh · · Score: 1

      Not so. the election pretty much pointed out that even democrats who voted him in last time went for Trump this election.

      That's a bit over broad. Clearly, not all Democrats who voted for Obama in 2012 voted for Trump. And Trump got less votes than Hillary, so I dare say that there were still quite a few Obama Democrats voting for Hillary.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    8. Re:Boogyjman by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Well, it depends on where you are talking about. In Pennsylvania Trump did win counties that Obama had won. Clinton did receive more votes but she had them in the wrong areas; NY, CA and not where she needed them that elected Obama; OH, MI, PA. There were definitely enough voters that changed this last election from prior to give both Trump and Obama the presidency.

      I think there were crosses for both parties; #neverTrump and #neverClinton.

    9. Re:Boogyjman by meerling · · Score: 1

      Yes, they have literally blamed him for things that happened before his time. Trump is part of that peanut gallery as well.

    10. Re: Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so. the election pretty much pointed out that even democrats who voted him in last time went for Trump this election.

      Nope. Trump is 2-3 million behind Obama on 2012. 7-8 million behind 2008. Only a million ahead of Bush in 2004.

      That means in 12 years, with a growing population, Trump effectively gained nothing. It was all people who stayed home.

      In fact, just check Wisconsin. 1,478,120 for Bush in 2004. 1,407,966 for Romney in 2012. 1,405,284 for Trump in 2016. I guess he can be glad for outperforming McCain in 2008.

    11. Re:Boogyjman by meerling · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and Trump was complaining about it being rigged as well, even before he won, especially when it looked like he'd lose. So what's your point?

    12. Re:Boogyjman by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Whoosh.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    13. Re:Boogyjman by Calydor · · Score: 1

      You are making a very dangerous assumption:

      In the past four years, NO ONE has 1) moved, 2) died, 3) reached an age allowing them to vote, 4) decided not to vote again, or 5) decided to vote this time when they didn't last time.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    14. Re:Boogyjman by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Dangerous? Wow, I will be sure to put on a helmet next time or is a seat belt good enough?

      Yes, I am sure that all of those contributed but the exit polls show that there was cross over from the last elections from the areas Clinton needed votes the most. Like anything, it isn't just one thing that decides the outcome. To the OP, some Obama Democrats voted for Clinton but it obviously wasn't all or enough in the areas she took advantage of them.

    15. Re:Boogyjman by zieroh · · Score: 1

      To the OP, some Obama Democrats voted for Clinton but it obviously wasn't all or enough in the areas she took advantage of them.

      I must once again quibble with your use of over-broad statements. To be clear, most Obama Democrats voted for Clinton. Some did not.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    16. Re:Boogyjman by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      "it obviously wasn't all or enough in areas she took advantage of".

      Is over-broad? Again, talking about the specific areas that she needed, PA, MI, and OH. How is what I said over-broad or contrary to your "Some did not".

      Are you really arguing semantics of the same damn thing? The only difference between our statements is that I am clarifying that WHERE is a much more important factor when you say: " And Trump got less votes than Hillary, so I dare say that there were still quite a few Obama Democrats voting for Hillary."

      Yes, Trump got less votes and Clinton had quite a few Obama Democrat votes. BUT not in the areas that were important in this election that gave Obama and Trump the presidency. In those areas, Obama Democrats voting for Clinton wasn't all of them or enough to win, obviously. It is also fairly safe to say that "enough voters that changed [either party vote or stay home] this last election from prior to give both Trump and Obama the presidency.". because the "blue wall" is gone and the exit polls show as much. Seriously... what are you quibbling over?

    17. Re:Boogyjman by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      No, they are applying motive to the lack of invitation. Specifically, petty revenge.

      God forbid that Twitter wasn't invited because they don't actually bring anything to the table. I wasn't invited either, who should I complain to and have it turn into a national story because Trump is a big meanie face who didn't want to include ME?

      FYI there were literally tens of thousands of other tech companies that weren't invited either, and nobody cares. Where was Michael Dell? HP? Micron? AMD? Qualcomm? Texas Instruments? Etc.

      What makes Twitter so fucking special, considering that their product is complete shit anyway?

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    18. Re:Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And nobody ever blamed anything on Bush, and certainly still don't.

      Fuck off.

    19. Re:Boogyjman by zieroh · · Score: 1

      "it obviously wasn't all or enough in areas she took advantage of".

      Is over-broad?

      I know this is slashdot, and I know that quoting habits are notoriously poor. Still, if you were paying attention, you might have noticed which part of your statement I was quibbling with, because that's the part that I quoted. And I even said why I was disagreeing with the quoted portion.

      If I was quibbling with the parts that you keep returning to, then I would have quoted them. But I didn't. So I'm not. Which means you're just going in circles trying to prove the veracity of a point you made which wasn't in dispute. Which is, honestly, pretty stupid, and not at all the way to make an effective point.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    20. Re:Boogyjman by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      No, they are applying motive to the lack of invitation. Specifically, petty revenge.

      And we all know that Trump would never stoop to such a thing, right?

      I mean, it's not like he got Romney to suck his dick on camera by dangling the SecState job in front of him, making a total fool of him, and then picking someone else. That public ass-raping and humiliation certainly couldn't have been driven by a need for revenge, no sir!

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    21. Re:Boogyjman by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Clinton did receive more votes but she had them in the wrong areas; NY, CA and not where she needed them

      Only in America can you win by 2.5 million votes and still lose because the votes were "in the wrong areas".

      Can anyone tell me why it should it matter where those votes were cast?

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    22. Re:Boogyjman by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      It appears my reading comprehension is suspect today. This isn't the first post today I have read wrong. I read your post wrong or more specifically missed the italics that emphasized your quibble. My apologies.

      I salute your semantic quibbles and resign myself to stupid leisure instead of stupid shit posting.

    23. Re:Boogyjman by zieroh · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised, genuinely. It's rare that anyone on slashdot owns up to a mistake.

      You have risen significantly in my estimation. Cheers.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    24. Re:Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem is... voting does look to have been rigged in at least the few places they looked. Detroit for one, had places where they were more votes registered than actual ballots. I don't mean one or two, I mean 350 votes registered when there were only 50 ballots. Guess who was the beneficiary of all of the phantom votes? Not Trump.

    25. Re:Boogyjman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldnt you get the chance to actually become the president (come january) and DO SOMETHING before people can complain about how bad you are at your job??
      Both Bush and Obama got shit for good reason, because they actually did things to destroy this country.

  11. This is small potatoes by rsilvergun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    compared to this. This is why Trump one. He (or his handlers) are a master to misdirecting folks from real scandals to fake ones. He did it all campaign long. His media and information control skills are terrifying. It's like Karl Rove 2.0.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:This is small potatoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey some guy down the street told me it was Russia that did it, SHE was supposed to win REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    2. Re:This is small potatoes by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      And yet Obama said himself in this interview with Trevor Noah two days ago that the hacked emails were "frankly not very interesting", with "nothing explosive" and just "fairly routine stuff". @3:30-4:00 and @5:20
      http://www.cc.com/video-clips/...

      So Obama makes a public announcement that a "deep dive" secret, covert operation is about to begin, and then one day later the Obama appointed CIA officials conclude that the operation is complete and they know Putin's intent, that he wanted to help Trump get elected by... releasing uninteresting emails.

    3. Re:This is small potatoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uninteresting to the POTUS.

      However we all experienced first hand the media storm it created, even moving the FBI to act in shall we say, "Non-Standard Ways".

      Remember this is Trump and his "Useful Idiots", it doesn't have to be useful or true or factual or accurate. It only need feed the beast...

  12. It was a tech meeting by Kohath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Twitter isn't a tech company. It's a 140 character message board. Were Slashdot and Reddit invited?

    1. Re:It was a tech meeting by BurnTim · · Score: 2

      Firstly; Facebook were invited, they're also primarily a social media site. Secondly; Twitter were invited (so they obviously were seen as a worthwhile guest initially) they just got bumped in light of events, that's the story. That's what you're missing.

    2. Re:It was a tech meeting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook is actively investing in new technologies, Twitter is doing...what?

    3. Re:It was a tech meeting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Twitter is struggling. The God Emperor knows that. He's generating more bait for fake news that plays to his plan.

    4. Re:It was a tech meeting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The parent post still stands: Twitter is not a tech company, it's a message board. It is irrelevant. Nobody offered to purchase them when they went up for sale.

    5. Re:It was a tech meeting by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, for Pete's sake. Twitter doesn't sell technology; no social media company does. They sell you. That doesn't mean they're not involved in developing new technology, you just don't see it unless you're a developer who uses the open source projects or standards they contribute to.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:It was a tech meeting by gnuhost · · Score: 1

      Ditto. Butthurts gonna butthurt tho

    7. Re:It was a tech meeting by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Yesterday a single Tweet from Trump knocked $3.5bn off the value of Lockheed Martin. Twitter seems like a pretty important communication platform.

      In fact so important that the free speech warriors want to nationalize it and turn it into a kind of government run 8chan where anything goes.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:It was a tech meeting by houghi · · Score: 1

      Reddit changed the invitation to "not invited" for giggles and Slashdot showed up two days late.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    9. Re:It was a tech meeting by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Is Amazon a tech company then? Or Uber?

      They were there, albeit the latter because Trump needs to buy the name for the second word of his new slogan.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    10. Re:It was a tech meeting by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Actually Slashdot was there, it's just the editors forgot about it, which is why they're turning up again today as if it never happened.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    11. Re:It was a tech meeting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Laying people off. Can't imagine why they would be disinvited to be in a room full of job creators.

  13. Twitter IS The Electronic KKK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Twitter's only selling point is hatred.

    And the hatred that sells the most is racial hatred.

    So Twitter is the electronic version of the KKK.

    Simple.

    1. Re:Twitter IS The Electronic KKK by nnull · · Score: 1

      Makes sense, considering all the ISIS posts they like to keep around and do nothing about.

    2. Re:Twitter IS The Electronic KKK by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      Deleting those accounts as they pop up would make it kinda hard for intelligence services to keep tabs on them. It's more valuable to leave them active for awhile, see who's visiting and following, and then purge them in batches.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  14. First meeting was Indian business partners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't you see the photos? The first thing after he was elected, was meetings with his foreign investors in Trump towers. The Indian ones did a tweet photo with Trump at the meeting, after that they were banned from discussing the meetings. Since then, there has been a prossession of investors and trustees of oligarchs into Trumps HQ.

    Two weeks have passed already, remember when Trump said he's sell off his foreign businesses and put the US ones intoa blind trust? No? Because he didn't promise that, he simply promised something vague to tackle the problem.

    He's stalling for time. Watch has he keeps doing PR stunts to avoid the problem.

  15. Hahahahah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Twitter won't exist in a few years anyways. Trump knows @jack is irrelevant.

  16. What facts do they base that on? by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's a fascinating article, actually. Why don't we look at the evidence they present to support their claims?

    Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

    So... they have anonymous people who are reporting rumors that they won't attach their names to. And there are other insiders saying the complete opposite. Lovely. Why don't they put out some actual, hard proof? Or prosecute someone? Maybe more of those banking restrictions they place on particular individuals? Oh, right.

    The FBI and other agencies don't fully endorse that view, but few officials would dispute that the Russian operation was intended to harm Clinton's candidacy by leaking embarrassing emails about Democrats.

    So the FBI is willing to put their name on this saying it's not true, but the anonymous people with rumors are going to say our allies gossiped about this? And NBC simply labels this as a "Russian operation" despite failing to present any evidence of that. We already discussed just yesterday how Podesta fell for a simple phishing scam, but presumably here they're talking about the DNC leaks, which Wikileaks says came from a DNC insider. You can read all about the bad jouranlism behind this conclusion if you wish. They're simply laundering anonymous rumors with no factual basis and referencing each other's stories that have no factual basis. The emperor has no clothes.

    You know it's bad when my own Slashdot comments scooped the NYT on that Podesta email story by weeks and given that I provided more actual, verifiable sources than their article. Seriously, if you can't even beat Slashdot comments by some random guy on the internet, maybe it's time to give it up, guys? You don't even bother to link to the actual sources lest someone do a real investigation, what a pathetic joke.

    Back on topic, let's not forget that they brought up the 17 intelligence agencies again. Would it kill you guys to actually name them? It's also misleading, because it comes from the directors (political appointees), specifically it was the: "Joint Statement from the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security "

    The latest intelligence said to show Putin's involvement goes much further than the information the U.S. was relying on in October, when all 17 intelligence agencies signed onto a statement attributing the Democratic National Committee hack to Russia.

    I love how they don't bother to link to the actual statement lest someone actually read what it said. It's not based on anything of substance as anyone can read. They essentially say this is totally something Russia would like to do. Also, we've seen random probes from Russia. Which everyone who has a network has seen all the time (same for China, incidentally), making it utterly meaningless. Everyone with an SSH server has seen this kind of crap and Slashdot has reported many such stories in the past, like this one. A nice quote from the comments in that story sums it up: "If you truly expect no traffic from those places, dropping China, Brasil and Russia from ever reaching your ssh port is a great idea."

    Let's also not forget that the DHS was

    1. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So... they have anonymous people who are reporting rumors that they won't attach their names to. And there are other insiders saying the complete opposite.

      Sounds a lot like Donald Trump to me. "Lots of folks are saying" Hillary is about to die from pneumonia, "some tremendous experts are saying" climate change is a conspiracy by the Chinese, "people are talking about" Obama himself unloading 100 trillion dollars from an airplane in Iran while snorting coke off a hooker's ass, etc. Always anonymously attributed to some nebulous "people," and often when making a statement that nobody was talking about until he brought it up. It's a great way to start a meme.

      Lovely. Why don't they put out some actual, hard proof?

      Indeed, I'd love it if Trump's Twitter rants were required to be accompanied by citations.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    2. Re:What facts do they base that on? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Would it kill you guys to actually name them

      Spooks don't like being named especially if they say something that people in politics will not like. That's why we see so many articles like that instead of "CIA Analyst Fredrick Fishmeister says ..."
      Is it true? Spooks spend so much time crying wolf or other lies that it's hard to say.

    3. Re:What facts do they base that on? by quantaman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's a fascinating article, actually. Why don't we look at the evidence they present to support their claims?

      Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

      So... they have anonymous people who are reporting rumors that they won't attach their names to.

      AKA anonymous leakers, a basic reporting tool.

      The leakers don't publicize their names because they're not supposed to be leaking the information, but the reporter can vouch for the fact that they are senior officials with access to the information.

      And there are other insiders saying the complete opposite.

      No there aren't, at least not in this article.

      Lovely. Why don't they put out some actual, hard proof?

      Because a lot of the evidence comes from confidential sources like CIA spies.

      Or prosecute someone?

      Who? Vladimir Putin?

      The FBI and other agencies don't fully endorse that view, but few officials would dispute that the Russian operation was intended to harm Clinton's candidacy by leaking embarrassing emails about Democrats.

      So the FBI is willing to put their name on this saying it's not true

      I'm not sure how you read that sentence and came up with that interpretation.

      The FBI did not say it was false that Russia was trying to elect Trump. The FBI, and every other agency that investigated it, said they agree that Russia was trying to hurt Clinton, but they don't know if the intent was merely to destabilize the US or to actually have Trump win the election.

      And NBC simply labels this as a "Russian operation" despite failing to present any evidence of that.

      Because that's been well established for months.

      You can read all about the bad jouranlism behind this conclusion if you wish.

      And have a good laugh at the "analysis" within. He simply dismissed all of the evidence of the hacking group intruding to the DNC network. Has Assange even disclosed how he knows that the "leaker" is a DNC insider and not some Russian operative claiming to be one?

      Back on topic, let's not forget that they brought up the 17 intelligence agencies again. Would it kill you guys to actually name them? It's also misleading, because it comes from the directors (political appointees)

      Who else is going to endorse the statement except the director? And you really think that not only did 17 directors all endorse a false statement, but that no one in any of their agencies leaked evidence to the contrary?

      I love how they don't bother to link to the actual statement lest someone actually read what it said. It's not based on anything of substance as anyone can read. They essentially say this is totally something Russia would like to do.

      No. They essentially say these hacks fit the profile of other attacks that have been tied to Russia.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    4. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Xenographic · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't remember anyone saying she was in danger of immanent death, but Hillary did get chucked into a van by her staff and her health was reported as being just fine... until that very public collapse. The foreign press was far less kind when they made a little re-enactment. I haven't even heard the other ones, so feel free to link me to the Tweets.

      But yes, I'd be happy to have more people posting verifiable facts rather than ill-informed speculation, no matter who they are.

    5. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Xenographic · · Score: 1

      > No there aren't, at least not in this article.

      Yes, the FBI, though they only allude to that in passing. There have been other random anonymous people quoted as disagreeing too. I don't think there's much point in playing the "my anonymous source can beat up your anonymous source" game though. I don't believe any of them, it's been the standard way to fabricate evidence in the press since before any of us were born. So there's no point going down that route to begin with.

      > Because a lot of the evidence comes from confidential sources like CIA spies.

      Yeah, no. See, I got over the secret evidence thing back when they used it to manufacture the war in Iraq. I've adopted the put up or shut up motto.

      > Because that's been well established for months.

      If by "well established" you mean that the press keeps reporting that it's true without giving us even one single verifiable fact we could hang our hat on. Or links to other articles saying the same thing, which link to more articles in a giant web of lies. Go follow them, look for actual, verifiable statements. Something you can actually corroborate with public records or such.

      I have yet to find one single damned shred of evidence. So point me to hard evidence, I'm done with anonymous insiders spreading unverifiable rumors.

      > He simply dismissed all of the evidence of the hacking group intruding to the DNC network.

      There wasn't any evidence he could dismiss, nothing was ever presented. That's kind of the point here. You didn't link us to anything, either. It's really easy to prove this wrong. Just point me to an actual fact that can be corroborated somehow. I've done that dozens of times referencing specific facts, leaks, DKIM signatures, etc. It's not even hard.

      The only evidence we have of hacking is the phishing email that got Podesta, whereas that article was discussing the DNC leaks, a completely different thing. And I'm the one who keeps linking that! You lot never even noticed that the phishing email claimed there were hack attempts from the Ukraine (of course, that was as fake as the bit.ly reset link Podesta used...).

      > And you really think that not only did 17 directors all endorse a false statement, but that no one in any of their agencies leaked evidence to the contrary?

      Read it again. There are only two directors endorsing that who happen to be in charge of a lot of people at different agencies. It's only right at the top of the thing. And quoted in my post....

      But yes, I absolutely refuse to believe this secret crap. I'm old enough to remember the WMDs and the yellowcake that were used to manufacture a war out of nothing last time. I also remember that being called out for a lack of evidence (and rightfully so).

      I mean, if someone as incompetent as Bush can get the intelligence community to lie to us to start a war, you can't seriously expect me to buy this sort of thing again.

      Doesn't anyone remember how that evidence was fabricated?

      The emperor has no clothes. These are naked rumors and the people peddling them are full of crap.

      Just for fun, go look up the bylines on these stories (not just this one, all of them in general). Then search for those names in the Podesta or the DNC leak dumps on Wikileaks.

      There's a damned good reason they never bother to link you to these.

    6. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Xenographic · · Score: 1

      > Spooks don't like being named

      That was in reference to who the 17 agencies (actually the two directors) the report was from. The Coast Guard & co. are not known for their hacking expertise, even if they do have a group dedicated to that sort of thing nowadays.

    7. Re:What facts do they base that on? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      > No there aren't, at least not in this article.

      Yes, the FBI, though they only allude to that in passing. There have been other random anonymous people quoted as disagreeing too. I don't think there's much point in playing the "my anonymous source can beat up your anonymous source" game though.

      Which is why the credibility of the reporter quoting the anonymous source matters.

      > Because a lot of the evidence comes from confidential sources like CIA spies.

      Yeah, no. See, I got over the secret evidence thing back when they used it to manufacture the war in Iraq.

      Which is why you should be skeptical of politicians cherry picking and misrepresenting evidence from the CIA.

      The CIA itself was a lot more skeptical about the WMDs than Bush implied.

      Because that's been well established for months.

      If by "well established" you mean that the press keeps reporting that it's true without giving us even one single verifiable fact we could hang our hat on.

      Ok here. Unless you want them to personally drop hard drives off at your house I'm not sure what else you expect.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    8. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Xenographic · · Score: 1

      > Which is why the credibility of the reporter quoting the anonymous source matters.

      No, it doesn't. I give credit to factual evidence, not anonymous rumors.

      Yay, we finally get something like a fact. You should really point here though as it has more details.

      But when we get to the bottom of it, we find it's mostly assumed because of a few RATs (remote access trojans). Problems with that:

      - Guccifer 2.0 took credit for it. There were allegations made about his use of Russian language, but nobody bothered to give quotes.
      - The RATs were widely available on underground forums.

      See also: https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/former-intelligence-officer-on-the-bogus-russian-hack-20578/

      And one last note, but they were planning to blame Trump for being too cozy to Russia from the beginning.
      https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/25651

      The timing doesn't work out either, because Trump was still a dark horse candidate during the first leaks and the DNC itself was asking its media allies to support Trump as one of the "pied piper" candidates, as you can see in the PDF attached to this email.

      So this pretty much looks like a case of confirmation bias to me.

    9. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.

      Your post is already modded 5, add +1 for you sig

    10. Re:What facts do they base that on? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      > Which is why the credibility of the reporter quoting the anonymous source matters.

      No, it doesn't. I give credit to factual evidence, not anonymous rumors.

      I give credit to the heuristics that most reliably lead me to the truth.

      Finding people or institutions who are good sources of information and have a good track record is a better than average method for finding the truth.

      Attempting to independently verify a small subset of the relevant facts in a field for which I have limited expertise is a very easy way to be wrong.

      Yay, we finally get something like a fact. You should really point here though as it has more details.

      Though that's an earlier article that leaves out the smoking gun of the same IP being used as the control address for the DNC hack and the hack on the German parliament demonstrating the same actor was behind both.

      But when we get to the bottom of it, we find it's mostly assumed because of a few RATs (remote access trojans). Problems with that:

      - Guccifer 2.0 took credit for it.

      Which never made sense, a fairly advanced hacker emulating a guy who guessed password resets do dump celebrity emails?

      See also: https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/former-intelligence-officer-on-the-bogus-russian-hack-20578/

      A source who both mischaracterizes the Iraq war build up (the CIA did not generally agree with Bush), who undersells the Russian hack evidence (leaving out the control addresses), and is mostly trying to sell a conspiratorial anti-government book and speaking/consulting business.

      And one last note, but they were planning to blame Trump for being too cozy to Russia from the beginning.
      https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/25651

      The timing doesn't work out either, because Trump was still a dark horse candidate during the first leaks

      But Trump's uncomfortable pro-Russian biases and entanglements were known all along, that may have been one of the reasons Putin was willing to through with it.

      and the DNC itself was asking its media allies to support Trump as one of the "pied piper" candidates, as you can see in the PDF attached to this email

      So?

      --
      I stole this Sig
    11. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The report actually stated that it fell short of a consensus of all the agencies. You're repeating falsehoods, and it makes you look gullible (at best).
      From the fucking Washington Post article itself:
      'The CIA presentation to senators about Russia’s intentions fell short of a formal U.S. assessment produced by all 17 intelligence agencies.'

    12. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about the heuristic that when all the press report the same story on the same day and there hasn't been a particular event, the story was planted? :)
      *cough*fake news*cough* But no, "reliable sources" never trump actual facts.

      Having hacked other important things is kind of expected for a skilled hacker, it might prove past ops, but not who they are.

      > Which never made sense, a fairly advanced hacker emulating a guy who guessed password resets do dump celebrity emails?

      Aside from both leaking emails? Besides, might as well release disinfo to keep people off your tail.

    13. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Xenographic · · Score: 1

      With that heuristic, how about the part where Wikileaks hasn't released any documents that were proven to be fake?

      I see they've recently put up a response to this: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/12/russian-bear-uses-keyboard/

      There are other sources claiming Craig picked up the emails in a park in DC and that the main motive was how Bernie Sanders was thoroughly shafted in the primaries. I'd prefer a better source than the Daily Mail, but that's who interviewed him: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4034038/Ex-British-ambassador-WikiLeaks-operative-claims-Russia-did-NOT-provide-Clinton-emails-handed-D-C-park-intermediary-disgusted-Democratic-insiders.html

    14. Re:What facts do they base that on? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's going to be interesting when the people posting the Trump memes figure out that he was bullshitting them the whole time. The butthurt rage will probably DDOS Twitter offline anyway.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an outsider from this discussion, can I recommend you just stop. You're making yourself look like a fool. Xenographic keeps asking for hard evidence, you keep posting tin foil hat rumors. He wants facts, you talk about reputations. You post something like a fact, and he analyzes it and rips it apart. You seriously just look like a fool.

    16. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you got served , son.

    17. Re:What facts do they base that on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your tears of rage and frustration, they are so salty-sweet!

    18. Re:What facts do they base that on? by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Not to mention someone attached their name to the leaks and claims it was not Russia. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  17. LCD by BlytheBowman · · Score: 1

    Lowest Comon Denominator, that's what "emojis" are for

    1. Re:LCD by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      There was once a time when English was for the lowest common denominator.

      The higher denominators used French or Latin.

  18. Twitter is failing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think anyone would want to hold a Tech meeting of that caliber with a company that has been steadily losing money for the past few years.

  19. Can we cut out freaking out about everything? by Jarwulf · · Score: 1

    If trump didn't meet with SV you guys would be bashing him for being a spoiled winner.

  20. My company is way bigger than Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Also my company is about twice the size of twitter in terms of employees and worth.

    Yet we were not invited to the table either.

    And unlike Twitter we're actually in Silicon Valley, not the peninsula.

  21. Wait, what? by jxander · · Score: 1

    Twitter is a "major tech company." Since when??

    It's a website that can receive SMS. There's nothing tech about it. And they can't really even be a "major company," as they have no product. All they have are eyeballs into which ads can be jammed, and those are fickle beasts.

    --
    This signature is false.
    1. Re:Wait, what? by afgam28 · · Score: 1

      I presume that you're not a programmer, at least not on anything big. Believe it or not, it takes a lot of engineering to build a system that can scale to the number of users that Twitter has, and provide them with more features than you give them credit for.

    2. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Technical accomplishments aside. I wouldn't consider Twitter to be a business. It has the potential to be a business, but it's not operating as one currently.

      TWTR's PE of -21.94 should make you question their plans. Especially from a 10 year old company that has been publicly traded for 3 years.

    3. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Twitter is a web service. A big one, true. But.... let's not get carried away.

      Remember when they started and had a bunch of scaling problems because they chose Ruby on Rails? Yeah, Dorsey and the original bunch are not tech geniuses. Rather, they were in the right place at the right time and seized their opportunity. They deserve full credit for recognizing the potential of a public messaging service.

  22. Tillerson Russian 'order of friendship' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tillerson (Trump's secretary of state), the CEO of Exxon Mobil that does all the Russian deals has a 2013 Friendship award from Putin.

    General Michael Flynn (Trumps new National Security Advisers), frequently 'private' visits Russia. He's the one that wants to form an alliance with Russia to tackle terrorism, has suggested FSB become a 5-eyes partner and has an anti-NATO stance. Paid to appear on RT, attended banquets with Putin.

    Paul Manasfort (Trump campaign manager before he was forced to resign) is a lobbyist who works with Russian propaganda analysts to install puppet leaders in other countries. Most recently (before Trump) putting in Viktor Yanukovych in Ukraine.

    We can pretend Trump just passively benefitted from this Putin attack, but that's not the reality. Trumps campaign group has deep ties to Russian intelligence, and these are people Trump is putting in, they've all got deep ties to Russia.

    And then there's Trump's offshore accounts, and the myriad of business fronts to launder money.
    Did Putin set up those companies? No, that was Trump.

    It isn't just that Putin personally was involved in putting Trump into power, Trump worked his part too.

  23. Should by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

    suspend his twitter account. Just to enjoy the schadenfreude.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    1. Re:Should by HanzoSpam · · Score: 1

      They probably should. Twitter would at last have a buyer. And one that could afford to keep their sorry asses afloat just for the entertainment value, at that.

      --

      Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
    2. Re:Should by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

      Yes, this. I wonder if he'd be able to figure out any other apps...hahahah

    3. Re:Should by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      schadenfreude.

      Not schadenfreude but more like self-preservation. They should permanently delete his account and not look back. They gave him a voice beyond the MSM. He would not be able to manipulate people with lies sans Twitter.

  24. Geeze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Twitter has a market cap that is a fraction of what the smallest company present has.

    They were not invited because they were not big enough.

  25. Trump should be pleased by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As the only politician with his own emoji, he should be stoked. Although, to be fair, :poop: lacks a certain panache.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Trump should be pleased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's U+1F4A9 U+1F3FB (Unfortunately there is no Fitzpatrick tone for orange)

  26. Pettiness of the Autocrat by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Expect a lot more of this shit at the whim of your new King.
    How the fuck did the USA of Jefferson, Washington and all the rest end up like this?

    1. Re:Pettiness of the Autocrat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a naive individual, believing this started now.

    2. Re:Pettiness of the Autocrat by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Yes, how dare those white, successful businessmen get involved in politics! Didn't the founding fathers understand that only academics and career bureaucrats qualify for elected office? The whole concept of citizen statesman is anathema to the founding of These United States.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    3. Re:Pettiness of the Autocrat by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Trump is a "citizen statesman"? Stop wasting all that money on white nose powder.
      He's a fucking autocrat and has already been talking about taking US citizenship away from people - he is indeed anathema to the founding of These United States. Back then they would have called him a Royalist.

    4. Re:Pettiness of the Autocrat by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Which US citizen group is he talking about revoking their citizenship?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    5. Re:Pettiness of the Autocrat by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Which US citizen group is he talking about revoking their citizenship?

      Those who exercise free speech in a way he doesn't like apparently.
      Google "trump revoke citizenship" for more about the fallout due to a tweet from that twit.

    6. Re:Pettiness of the Autocrat by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Here's one of the more interesting ones from an earlier time he said it.
      http://www.nj.com/politics/ind...
      According to the article he said he'd file a legal challenge to the 14th Amendment in an effort to revoke citizenship from millions of people born in the U.S. to mothers who arrived in the nation without documentation.
      So it's not just flag burners he's threatening with exile for defying a wannabe King.

  27. "I want to help you do well" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I love everything about this story of the "tech summit" at Trump Tower.

    1). Trump actually wanted Twitter to give him a "Crooked Hillary" emoji. Think about that. He wanted a special emoji.
    2) He called Clinton "Crooked Hillary" while paying $25 million to settle a court case for bilking money from his customers.
    3) Because Twitter wouldn't make his "Crooked Hillary" emoji, he punished them by not inviting him to his "tech summit"
    4) He tells the assembled billionaires at the "tech summit" that he "wants to help them do well". THEY'RE ALREADY FUCKING BILLIONAIRES.
    5) In the photos of the "tech summit" Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, Tim Cook and Elon Musk look like they're ready to jump out of a window because of whatever Trump is saying.
    6) Just yesterday, Donald Trump had a summit with Kanye West, who is only days out of a psychiatric hold.

    And because I love you all, here's an actual (really not fake) photo of Donald Trump with GG Allin, with a pull quote from Trump:

    https://i.redditmedia.com/9D2K...

    (note: If you don't know who GG Allin was, you really need to look it up, because it puts the photo in context.)

    This is going to be fun.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:"I want to help you do well" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's a totally fake photo, that's actually Kenny G.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXf-rerWEAESC9E.jpg

    2. Re:"I want to help you do well" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      7) Trump is putting people who did him favours in office. No crooked nepotism there, no sir.
      8) Won't really give up his business interest, and is already using the presidency is enrich himself (e.g. basing his team out of Trump Tower).

      Trump is far, far more corrupt that Clinton ever was. The guy should be in jail for the Trump University scam alone.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:"I want to help you do well" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let that sink in. The President-Elect of the United States casually remarked that this man was a chill dude to hang out with. Or golf.

    4. Re:"I want to help you do well" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lovely. G. G. Allin. Very fitting. Now we're all engaging in coprophagia.

    5. Re:"I want to help you do well" by Megane · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're actually dumb enough to believe that badly shopped photo is real? The original is Kenny G.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXf-rerWEAESC9E.jpg (linkifying the AC's url)

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    6. Re:"I want to help you do well" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're actually dumb enough to believe that badly shopped photo is real? The original is Kenny G.

      It's funny that of all the things I listed, the one that bothers you is the GG Allin photo.

      As if Kenny G is any better than GG Allin.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:"I want to help you do well" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liberals are too smart to fall for fake news.

    8. Re:"I want to help you do well" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #CrookedDonald

  28. He's literally not by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 0, Troll

    You are a fucking idiot if you don't see the difference. He is literally setting up a fascist regime.

    He is literally not.

    Get some perspective. Christ almighty you lefties are so full of hatred and anger that you can't even see straight.

    Trump recently gave his labor secretary pick his vision for that post, and the labor secretary basically agreed. This all looks very good and should have a positive effect on the nation.

    His whole transition looks like this. You guys can't see all the goodness because you're too blinded by losing the election.

    From that link:

    Donald J. Trump’s 10 Point Plan to Put America First

    1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.

    2. End catch-and-release. Under a Trump administration, anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained until they are removed out of our country.

    3. Move criminal aliens out day one, in joint operations with local, state, and federal law enforcement. We will terminate the Obama administration’s deadly, non-enforcement policies that allow thousands of criminal aliens to freely roam our streets.

    4. End sanctuary cities.

    5. Immediately terminate President Obama’s two illegal executive amnesties. All immigration laws will be enforced – we will triple the number of ICE agents. Anyone who enters the U.S. illegally is subject to deportation. That is what it means to have laws and to have a country.

    6. Suspend the issuance of visas to any place where adequate screening cannot occur, until proven and effective vetting mechanisms can be put into place.

    7. Ensure that other countries take their people back when we order them deported.

    8. Ensure that a biometric entry-exit visa tracking system is fully implemented at all land, air, and sea ports.

    9. Turn off the jobs and benefits magnet. Many immigrants come to the U.S. illegally in search of jobs, even though federal law prohibits the employment of illegal immigrants.

    10. Reform legal immigration to serve the best interests of America and its workers, keeping immigration levels within historic norms.

    1. Re:He's literally not by bfpierce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Ensure that other countries take their people back when we order them deported."

      The best part of all of this is you guys on the right still, after 75 years, think this is something that's possible with millions of people.

    2. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In short, blame all your problems on immigration, and blindly hope that removing immigration will fix all your problems.
      When this inevitably fails to produce the desired result, more extreme, cruel and equally inefficient measures will be taken. This pattern has been repeated many times and it always ends up as a big steaming pile of shit for everyone.

    3. Re:He's literally not by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Get some perspective. Christ almighty you lefties are so full of hatred and anger that you can't even see straight.

      Wait. Are you trying to be funny or ironic? Because there's been a LOT of hate and anger expressed this election cycle and it's been coming from Trump and his followers. Liberals are simply frightened about real damage the Trump administration, Republicans and Conservative with seriously backward, narrow-minded, phobic, agendas, could have. (You *know* I'm right about those things -- just look at Ohio's attempt to ban abortions at 6 weeks after conception.)

      You know, just like the unrealistic fears and hysteria Conservatives had when Obama was elected - because he was black and "not an American".

      Of course, perhaps everyone should just relax. So far Trump has backed out or reduced most of his campaign promises, so he'll probably flake on everything else too.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    4. Re:He's literally not by Phydeaux314 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Okay, I normally like to stay out of these discussions so I can moderate instead, but this is ridiculous.

      1. First, unless you want to start a mercantilism-esque trade war, "make Mexico pay for it" isn't really feasible. Second, more people are going to Mexico from the US than are coming to the US from Mexico. Building a wall would be a rather pointless waste of resources. See http://www.pewresearch.org/fac...

      2. Catch-and-release was used because it costs a great deal of money to imprison, house, try, and deport illegal immigrants. You need to do due process to avoid violating the constitution. In America, you're innocent until proven guilty - and that applies to people suspected of being in the country illegally. You cannot strip the rights of somebody because you *think* they don't have them, otherwise those rights are meaningless. If you want to end catch-and-release entirely, be prepared to spend a lot more money on law enforcement and the INS.

      3. There are constitutional reasons why you can't compel the state law enforcement to do things. Also, DACA/DAPA (which is what I assume you mean when you refer to "Obama's deadly policies") didn't allow criminals to stay; if you had any serious convictions (any felony, any serious misdemeanor, or 3 misdemeanors of any kind) you weren't eligible.

      4. Again: Constitutional issue. We preserve the right of law enforcement agencies to enforce laws as they see fit; "sanctuary city" is simply an extension of that. Sanctuary cities aren't "safe havens" for illegal immigrants. They're simply cities where the *local* law enforcement will not assist with matters that consist only of immigration status violations. The federal government is welcome to conduct their own operations, as is its right.

      5. Sure, you can revoke DACA/DAPA - but be specific, it wasn't amnesty, it was an executive order to provide a temporary stay of enforcement. Amnesty is a different word that has a very different meaning.

      6. We... already do? Visas aren't issued blindly, and their requirements are based on nation of origin. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      7. This is a concern only with a few nations (mostly in the middle east) and I actually agree.

      8. This would cost tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars to set up and operate. We're not Israel; we don't have a single major point of air entry and a few heavily controlled land entry points. It would also not be terribly useful, because unless you're willing to track people once inside the country (and that opens up a whoooole different can of worms) it's not going to do a whole lot. You know person with X biometric data entered the country, great. Now what? They've moved and dropped off the radar. Good luck catching them.

      9. The only way to make it not attractive to work here is to lower how much American companies pay, and I for one do not approve of dragging our standard of living down into the mud in order to accomplish that. You can punish companies more harshly for using illegal immigrants as labor, but making it objectively less attractive to work here isn't really feasible.

      10. Which historic norms? Immigration's been pretty steady for the last twenty five years, give or take, so immigration as a function of population size has actually *dropped.*

      America's problems (well, most of them) aren't because of immigrants. The real issues facing American workers stem from the ruination of unions in the 90s, the increased automation of the last 50+ years, and the willingness of other countries to not offer high standards of living for workers. The problem isn't going away, and blaming immigrants for it isn't going to fix the issue - especially when we have a ticking time bomb in the form of driverless trucking no more than a decade away.

      Trucking employs about 1.8 million people, and contributes about

      --
      Never underestimate the stupidity inherent in all human beings.
    5. Re:He's literally not by Phydeaux314 · · Score: 2

      Bleh, linked the wrong article for the visa bit. This is the tab I meant to link: https://travel.state.gov/conte...

      --
      Never underestimate the stupidity inherent in all human beings.
    6. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's simple: ramps leading to the southern border wall with dump trucks to unload them once you get there.

      Don't worry about it: we'll drop them into a big foam pit so nobody is injured on the way down.

    7. Re:He's literally not by mnemotronic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Donald J. Trump’s 10 Point Plan to Put America First

      1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.

      "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man" -- General George S. Patton.

      2. End catch-and-release. Under a Trump administration, anyone who illegally crosses the border will be detained until they are removed out of our country.

      Good plan that; retaining illegals until they can be sent to any other country. Like Canada. The one with the impenetrable wall.

      3. Move criminal aliens out day one, in joint operations with local, state, and federal law enforcement. We will terminate the Obama administration’s deadly, non-enforcement policies that allow thousands of criminal aliens to freely roam our streets.

      In 8 years Dubya deported 2 million. In 7 years (so far) the "Deporter In Chief" has sent 2.5 million illegals packing.

      4. End sanctuary cities.

      Any details on this? Publically humiliating the mayors via tweets? Air strikes? Threatening to build (or not build) a Trump property?

      5. Immediately terminate President Obama’s two illegal executive amnesties. All immigration laws will be enforced – we will triple the number of ICE agents. Anyone who enters the U.S. illegally is subject to deportation. That is what it means to have laws and to have a country.

      Obama got carried away. DACA and DAPA were/are a bad call. A lawyer should have know better.
      I can't wait until Americans get a shot at the 18 million jobs that those 5 million jobs illegals will leave behind. I just can't wait to see Joe Plumber in the fields at 4 am picking cabbage for $3/hour, then off to hang drywall or put on roofs in 110 degree heat for $4.50/hr. Let's make American heart attacks great again! All kidding aside, do you have any idea of the kinds of jobs that illegals hold, what they get paid and their working conditions? They are basically hostages working for sub-minimal wages under daily threat of deportation from employers.

      6. Suspend the issuance of visas to any place where adequate screening cannot occur, until proven and effective vetting mechanisms can be put into place.

      I'ld like to see it at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Trump's squeeze this week (Melanija Knavs) is a foreign national. Citizenship is not transferable by relation (see item # 5 above).

      7. Ensure that other countries take their people back when we order them deported.

      "Hello, Mexico? We got some cooks and roofers up here. Come get these guys. Wadda mean there's an impenetrable wall? Who's goddam idea was that? Hello? Hello??"

      8. Ensure that a biometric entry-exit visa tracking system is fully implemented at all land, air, and sea ports.

      "Biometric data processed. Re-entry into the United States is refused. Your records indicate a defect in the APOE4 gene associated with Mild Cognitive Impariment. We apologize for the inconvenience Mr. Trump, Donald"

      9. Turn off the jobs and benefits magnet. Many immigrants come to the U.S. illegally in search of jobs, even though federal law prohibits the employment of illegal immigrants.

      "Mr Trump, here's the latest revision of the Ten Point Plan. As requested, all items are just re-wordings of the same idea. As you said, our supporters won't be able to figure that out."

      10. Reform legal immigration to serve the best interests of America and its workers, keeping immigration levels within historic norms.

      Interesting. All those millions of illegals slipping into the country up until now become "the historic norm".

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    8. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this is. You might deny it at this time, but there will be a time when you will be proud to be a fascist.
      Either that, or you will rue the day of the Trump too late.

    9. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "He is literally not."

      Actually he is, no, not in the scream fascist because it's a cool insult kind of way, but in the actual, that is the label for his brand of politics kind of way.

      Fascism opposes liberalism, is dependent on nationalism and populism, and protectionism. It opposes birth control, abortion, homosexuality, and it believes gender roles should be well defined - i.e. women act as child bearers and men are there to work.

      You're rarely going to have an individual that fits perfectly into a single political spectrum, but without a doubt, objectively, Trump's political views and styles most closely align with fascism over and above any other political system. The only thing he is short on is authoritarianism, and even there it's not clear whether that's because he actually believes in democracy (claims about not accepting the election if he lost would imply not), or because he has no choice but to accept that taking democracy away in America right now is not something he could achieve.

      Perhaps the reason you find the perfectly accurate label of Trump as a fascist so offensive is because you too believe in that particular political ideology, but are too insecure in your belief to accept it. Contrary to far-right folks like you saying you hate political correctness, what you're actually doing is refusing to call a spade a spade, which is rather hypocritical. The fact you're far-right dross, the left behinds that have failed in life and want to blame everyone else even though it's through their own personal failings is a bit of a giveaway when you have a ten point plan that could really just be summed up in one point "Trump is awesome because he hates foreign people just like I do and now we get to treat them as sub-human".

      Fascism has long been misused as an insult that doesn't truly represent the person it's being aimed at. Unfortunately that is no longer true, because with people like Orban, Farage, Le Pen, and Trump around we're now well and truly in the realm of the rise of real, actual, fascists, not just the insult kind. You seem to be on board with that but find it offensive so want to define yourself some political correct name, like alt-right I assume rather than just using the accurate and existing terms of far-right and fascist it would appear.

    10. Re:He's literally not by Darinbob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As an innocent bystander (not republic/democrat/conservative/liberal), it's weird to hear people accuse others of being liberals merely because they're pointing out that they don't like Trump and his unrealistic stance. Every single person I know who voted for Trump does NOT like Trump, they just treated him as the slightly more tolerable candidate. So when I see someone pointing to Trump as the greatest candidate ever and that person is smart enough to use a computer, I can only imagine that they just keep repeating that as a mantra in order to keep from going into a deep depression.

      The Republican leadership does NOT like Trump either, are they all liberal stooges? Yes some might claim that but if they believe it then they're in serious need of some vacation time with round the clock care. Everyone on the left or right is pandering to Trump as the next President, that does not mean they like him or agree with him, it's just basic common sense.

      I agree that Trump is being much more toned down after the election. However the people he's listening to are not necessarily doing this. For a man claiming to be of the people he's nominating a cabinet full of the elitist of elites, and that's certainly due to the people whispering in his ear. So I don't think he'll flake on this as he seems to be nominating everyone his handlers tell him to. His fanbase don't seem to think this, they start off bashing the elites but then seem happy that these same elites are being nominated. My guess is that the people pulling the strings are going to be surprised when they let their guard down and he starts moving on his own. I honestly think Trump never planned on winning at all and he's winging it with the help of a lot of whispers in his ear. While Trump does seem to be backing down from campaign rhetoric I don't think he's showing that with his cabinet picks. He seems more like acting like a prominent CEO and letting others do the work of running things while he gets the publicity.

      In other words, there's a whole lot of unpredictability going on. Will he just do what he's told or will he occasionally exert some free will? Too hard to predict. That's why there's a stream of people visiting his throne in Trump Tower, they need to pander to the unpredictable. People who are convinced with certainty about what Trump will do in office are deluding themselves.

    11. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Remove immigration" are your words.

    12. Re:He's literally not by guises · · Score: 2

      You *know* I'm right about those things

      Don't make assumptions. Propaganda works.

    13. Re:He's literally not by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From my perspective growing up in a farming area in Calilfornia, the biggest employers of undocumented workers are also very conservative and Republican. These farmers wanting cheap workers are not elitist liberals by any means. They just want cheap labor. Unions who are typically branded as liberal these days are the ones who want to get rid of undocumented workers who drive down wages. For some bizarre reason this turned into a left vs right issue, but that's how everything works in the US because we're not smart enough to understand anything more nuanced than two political stances. There are jobs that American citizens and green card holders really don't want to take if they have a choice. If you want to get rid of undocumented workers I think the smart approach would be to reduce welfare subsidies for able bodied workers.

    14. Re:He's literally not by Required+Snark · · Score: 0

      Call Trump's plan for immigrants (legal or not) what it really is: ethnic cleansing.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    15. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Dumptrucks? It sounds so inefficient. I would suggest a series of tubes.

    16. Re:He's literally not by dehachel12 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >We won.
      Are you a billionaire ? No? than you have lost.

    17. Re:He's literally not by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's weird to hear people accuse others of being liberals

      That's how it works in all extreme ideologies. You are either with us or against us. Part of the system or an enemy of it. Everything is black and white.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    18. Re:He's literally not by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I always thought it was pretty screwed up how the US only grants rights, even human rights, to its own citizens. To the US, everyone who isn't a citizen is a second class human being. When people treat Americans that way they don't seem to like it either.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    19. Re:He's literally not by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      We need to keep an eye on the new First Lady. She promised to make the internet a "safe space for children" and I don't think any of us want someone with views like that whispering in the President's ear.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re:He's literally not by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You cannot strip the rights of somebody because you *think* they don't have them, otherwise those rights are meaningless.

      Gitmo. Which Obama decided not to close by deciding not to use his pardon power. All he had to do was say (at some point) "in one year I am pardoning everyone in gitmo not charged with a crime, and suck it up buttercups" and leave it up to others to decide how to handle the remaining prisoners. Charge them, let them go, whatever.

      Rights are meaningless. You have only what rights you can take and hold by force. Don't get confused about this. We see this proven out over and over again. I'd say the relative situations vis-a-vis Standing Rock and Malheur prove that neatly, though, if you need one thing (well, two things) to point at.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    21. Re:He's literally not by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If you want to get rid of undocumented workers I think the smart approach would be to reduce welfare subsidies for able bodied workers.

      If you want to get rid of undocumented workers, you simply raise the minimum wage to one on which you can live without being in poverty, as it was originally intended. This is literally the only thing you can do. Americans stopped taking those jobs because they only paid a poverty wage, which was only possible because congress has not raised the minimum wage to meet inflation in over twenty years.

      The illegal worker problem was literally created by congress, which is also responsible for destroying the middle class — and mostly with the same [in]action.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:He's literally not by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Are you a billionaire ? No? than you have lost.

      If the EC delivers its anticipated screwing of the American public next week, then, yes, exactly.

      Wins the thread.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    23. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says the biggest sjw liberal shit who ever drank a Kombucha...

    24. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We won."

      Haha. You got conned, moron. Trump used you and all your redneck friends to take power, and you fell for it, and the country will suffer. Well, except the rich white people. It's not something to be proud or happy about.

    25. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Voting for Hitler because you don't like Hillary is still voting for Hitler. There were other candidates on the ballot, and everyone was free to write in anyone else. Every intelligent person in the country saw Trump for what he is, and the rest voted for their own enslavement.

    26. Re:He's literally not by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Get some perspective. Christ almighty you lefties are so full of hatred and anger that you can't even see straight.

      Wait. Are you trying to be funny or ironic? Because there's been a LOT of hate and anger expressed this election cycle and it's been coming from Trump and his followers.

      You haven't seen any of the violence against Trump supporters on the news? You haven't seen any of the protests in the streets after the election? Trump supporters, of which I was not one, were not the violent ones. Angry, yes, but they channeled that to the ballot box. Trump haters channeled it to the streets.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    27. Re:He's literally not by swillden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Great post. I just have to disagree with one point:

      9. The only way to make it not attractive to work here is to lower how much American companies pay, and I for one do not approve of dragging our standard of living down into the mud in order to accomplish that. You can punish companies more harshly for using illegal immigrants as labor, but making it objectively less attractive to work here isn't really feasible.

      There's a very easy way to make it objectively less attractive to work here, without touching wages or standard of living (well, the cost of goods produced with cheap illegal immigrant labor will go up). All you have to do is ensure that no Americans will hire illegals because the risk of doing so is too high. First step: attach criminal penalties, including non-trivial jail time, to knowingly hiring undocumented workers, and impose heavy fines on those who hired them without doing their due diligence. Second step: offer a green card to any illegal immigrant who rats out his or her employer. Done. No one can hide the fact of the illegal employment from the employee, and the illegal employee's motives for being in the country will be best served by blowing the whistle and getting legal status.

      Oddly enough, whenever I propose this strategy to those who are up in arms about illegal immigration, they don't like it. They don't have any coherent response to it, but they don't like it. The reason they don't like it, of course, is that there's a strong undercurrent of racism in their position, and my proposal would punish Americans and reward illegals, at least at first. Even if it's clear that it would work in the long run, it's emotionally unsatisfying to them because they want to punish the illegals for daring to come here. In practice, I don't think very many green cards would be issued because American employers would start being very careful about who they employ, but that still doesn't make the illegal immigration alarmists happy because it merely makes illegals unemployable, rather than punishing them.

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    28. Re:He's literally not by swillden · · Score: 1

      If you want to get rid of undocumented workers I think the smart approach would be to reduce welfare subsidies for able bodied workers.

      If you want to get rid of undocumented workers, you simply raise the minimum wage to one on which you can live without being in poverty, as it was originally intended. This is literally the only thing you can do.

      That would do exactly the opposite. It would give employers an even greater motivation to use illegal labor so they wouldn't have to comply with the minimum wage regulations. If you want to get rid of undocumented workers you need to make employing them unattractive to American employers.

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    29. Re:He's literally not by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For some bizarre reason this turned into a left vs right issue, but that's how everything works in the US because we're not smart enough to understand anything more nuanced than two political stances.

      The important thing to remember about parties in the US system is that they don't actually represent consistent ideological positions; that's largely a convenient fiction. Ideology tends to divide people along fine distinctions, which works in a parliamentary system because a small party can join a governing coalition. In fact small parties often play kingmaker and wield a great deal of power. In the American system being a small party like the Greens means you get nothing. Ever.

      In the US we have to build our cross-ideological coalition within the parties, which requires a lot of creative rationalization and, to put it bluntly, emotional manipulation. That's why the Democrats have trade unionists and minorities on one hand, and the Republicans have evangelicals and the Log Cabin Republicans on the other. These groups have little intrinsic motivation to support each other, except that's the only way to get a share of power.

      This means that to understand a party you cant just go by the pictures they paint of themselves (never a good idea with any group); you need to look at their history. And that explains those Republican ranchers and their undocumented workers. From Reconstruction until the 1960s the Republican party was regional party that represented Northern and later Western business interests. The in 1964 Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act. That very year arch-segregationist Strom Thurmond switched parties from Democrat to Republican, and the Republicans for the first time ever gained a foothold in the South and a nation-wide scope that has allowed them to dominate the House of Representatives since the early 90s.

      A Democratic hyperpartisan will tell you the post-Nixon Republicans embraced racism, but really what they did was smarter: they embraced nativism. Nativism had considerable appeal to racists while being more acceptable to traditional Republicans. However this also conflicted with business interests (especially agricultural ones), so the Republican party adopted a regime of hard rhetoric and and harsh but deliberately ineffective measures. If you don't believe me, check out this graph of undocumented Mexicans in the US and note the transition from the Bush era to the Obama era. Obama actually stepped up deportations pretty much from the get go, particularly of criminals.

      At the same time the adoption of nativism by the Republicans makes the Democrats' job easier. While from a strict trade-unionist position undocumented workers are a bad thing, in practical terms the impacts aren't in jobs where there is a strong union, because the union prevents employers from paying low wages to non-union workers.

      --
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    30. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats quite the mental gymnatsics routine you pulled there.

      Minimum wage created the situation by making it more efficient to pay people under the table and made lazy Americans feel theyre entitled to a "better" job.

    31. Re:He's literally not by dywolf · · Score: 1

      JFC you are a moron.

      1 - the wall is an absurdity. the cost is well north of 25 billion dollars in materials alone, not even counting labor and its associated associated costs. much of the terrain to be covered is extremely remote, so you're not going to be able to send the workers home every day. you're going to have to house and feed them as well. and all that cost, can be defeated by a 30$ ladder from home depot. it's pure idiocy.

      2 - and that will require increasing the budget of ICE by ~100x. when you release them, you don't have to provide for them. if you don't, you do. clothing, shelter housing. and because you're talking about families often, you cant be splitting them up, detaining, trying, and deporting them separately, especially the children (8th amendment). so your housing isn't going to be simple prison-esque condition, but something that can keep families together, separated from other families. are you beginning to see why we don't do that?

      3 - Obama has deported more people than the previous 4 presidents combined, and with a focus on those who are criminals . Your point is complete BS not at all attached to reality.

      4 - You can't. Immigration enforcement is the job of the federal government, not cities. You cannot force cities to participate, and if they don't want to spend their resources assisting, they don't have to. They have their own concerns.

      5 - What amnesties? This is another BS talking point not grounded in reality. There were no amnesties.

      6 - We already do. Yet another BS talking point not grounded in reality

      7 - You actually cannot force that. And it can be a bad thing too to do so. We have actually created the current violence and chaos in Honduras by deporting undocumented criminals in such large numbers that the local government was unable to handle the influx. They almost literally just show up in the local airport...and aren't met by anyone, so they're effectively off scot free, to form new criminal enterprises.

      8 - $$$$$ Again: how you gonna pay for it? And how are you not going to violate the constitution implementing it? Remember: the Constitution protects all persons subject to the authority of the US Government, not just citizens; the few rights we don't also apply to non-citizens are the exception, not the rule.

      9 - So to deter immigration...you're going to hurt American citizens by killing the social safety net? by harming jobs somehow? A social safety net supported in part by immigrant workers, including undocumented workers who contribute more than 11B$ annually into a system they do not get to benefit from? Oh yeah...that's right. you think they just sit on welfare. news flash: that's another BS talking point not grounded in reality. also, immigrants only ever boost the economy , even when underpaid (yes, they should be able to work openly, or at least report bad working conditions that they current cannot because of threat of deportation; but taking away their jobs entirely only hurts things, not helps.) the fact they come here for jobs is a sign of the strength of our economy. you cant actually "turn off the magnet" without harming our own country.

      10 - total BS talking point rooted in racism and xenophobia. "historic norms" would be immigration levels far above today's levels . Immigration helps the country, period , and restricting it as we have actually is a drag on the economy. Legal immigration is practically impossible for the majority of those seeking opportunity, ie, poor or poverty stricken. but if you're rich, or semi rich, or connected, it's easy. Hell, the really rich literally get to just buy their citizenship . what was that about "borders" and "not having a country?" oh yeah...just more xenophobic bigotry that ignores the fact that the rich already live in

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    32. Re: He's literally not by GLMDesigns · · Score: 0, Troll

      Would you like to have sharia law here? Would you like the US to become part of an Islamic Caliphate?

      Do you want to spend time, money, and blood preventing that?

      If your answer is no. Then immigration can be a problem.

      express.co.uk : 1000 Muslims block London streets demanding an Islamic Caliphate.

      If you're an atheist why would you want to import people who want to kill you?

      --
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    33. Re:He's literally not by dywolf · · Score: 1

      to make hiring them unattractive, you need to make the labor not illegal in the first place. ie, remove the fear of deportation. then the MW can apply to them too.

      and when they cost just as much to employ as legal workers, and the threat of deportation cannot be held over them, they cease to be attractive hires for the unscrupulous employers. the same concept applies to H1B visa holders who are similarly forced to keep quiet and not complain in order to keep their jobs.

      the concept is simple: if you're willing to work, live, and pay taxes into the local system, you should get to, and we should gladly welcome such people.
      everyone benefits from that arrangement, even if the worker is a non-citizen who may or may not plan to return home someday.
      no more legal/illegal distinction.
      and along with it, attach citizenship as a goal/reward at the end of a reasonable period of years.

      this leverages the strength of our economy to attract the kind of people we want here: hard workers, smart workers, etc. the kind of people we all are descended from, the kind who built the nation. and easing the ability to gain citizenship (without being rich enough to simply buy it) helps us retain them. its only ever strengthened the country and its past time we got back to that mindset.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    34. Re:He's literally not by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That would do exactly the opposite. It would give employers an even greater motivation to use illegal labor so they wouldn't have to comply with the minimum wage regulations.

      No, it doesn't work that way. The illegal workers are undocumented, but it doesn't mean they don't have documents. They just have someone else's documents. In at least one case, they used my documents. The employers are complying with the minimum wage regulations; these illegally employed migrant workers are making minimum wage. The employer has to appear to be following the regulations, at least on paper. Now, yes there are multiple cases in which workers have been expected to pay part of their wages back to their employer and many other such scams, but no, they are not paying less than the minimum wage.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    35. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get some perspective. Christ almighty you lefties are so full of hatred and anger that you can't even see straight.

      You're going to need to show your street cred first. Show us one Tim you called about a rightie for knocking Obama for being a fascist. Or a social list. Or a Muslim. Or an anti-colonialist.

      Nope? Don't believe it happened?

      Ah, too bad Jon Stewart knows you lied.

    36. Re:He's literally not by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      the concept is simple: if you're willing to work, live, and pay taxes into the local system, you should get to, and we should gladly welcome such people.

      Okay, in theory, yes. However:

      everyone benefits from that arrangement, even if the worker is a non-citizen who may or may not plan to return home someday.

      No. Absolutely not. In a world in which you have to have a job, and there are a finite and inadequate number of jobs because wealth has been concentrated in the hands of a few who claim to be "job creators" but who actually wind up shuffling the money between one another without it actually touching the hands of peasants, which is why "trickle down" economics doesn't work. Your system redistributes wealth away from citizens, which is why it won't work: it's harmful to the citizenry.

      easing the ability to gain citizenship (without being rich enough to simply buy it)

      Letting people buy citizenship is a good plan, so long as we expect them to follow the rules of the nation and then act accordingly. You just set the price high enough to where they more than pay for themselves.

      its only ever strengthened the country and its past time we got back to that mindset.

      The number of jobless people in the country has never been so high except during the great depression. I fail to see how exacerbating this problem will help. Permitting endless numbers of immigrants has only ever been a benefit to the nation when we were in a state of war, and needed conscripts.

      Now, if you're going to pay citizens a minimum guaranteed income, and permit non-citizens to cross the border freely to actually do what work there is and they really get a shit deal, that will benefit the citizenry because it creates an underclass of permanent slaves. But that doesn't seem like a desirable road to go down, either.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    37. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make it a bouncy castle at the bottom and you've got my buy-in!

    38. Re:He's literally not by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Regarding coercing the states and localities into doing what the Feds want - you may not be able to directly order them to do stuff, but you can de facto order them to do it by cutting off funding sources if they don't.

      Watch how fast the law enforcement agencies start doing what's asked of them when Federal equipment and training grants disappear, and operations budget that comes from federal agencies for various policing activities (read: locking up drug dealers) dry up.

      Is it a nice thing to do? Not even remotely. But it's a lever that the administration can pull any time they want - Congress only says how much money will be distributed, and for what purpose. They usually don't allocate percentages to specific jurisdictions, especially with earmarks being frowned upon.

      --
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    39. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Of course it is. Why are you leftists so negative about something so simple. You have no problem implementing a multi generational plan to destroy the West but cutting off a few million illegals from free services and sending them home is somehow impossible.

      Its noted you didn't address HOW it was going to be ensured host countries would re-admit their citizens when they're deported. Like trump, you distract, then not deal with the actual question.

    40. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, no.

      Nowhere does his "plan" talk about rounding up non-whites that are here legally, or honest-to-goodness citizens, and killing them.

      Words and phrases have actual meanings. To misuse them is to label yourself an idiot.

    41. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (claims about not accepting the election if he lost would imply not)

      And yet it's the Democrats that continue to bleat on about the popular vote, how somehow Russia hacked their way into delivering Trump the election with a ribbon on top, changing the rules because they lost, faithless electors, and "not my president."

      I guess the Democratic Party doesn't actually believe in democracy either.

    42. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Raising the minimum wage actually harms illegal immigrants because the only bargaining chip they have is working for a lower wage. Abolish the minimum wage, abolish the welfare state, and institute a negative income tax.

    43. Re:He's literally not by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Any details on this? Publically humiliating the mayors via tweets? Air strikes? Threatening to build (or not build) a Trump property?

      The same way the federal government got the same age restrictions in every state for alcohol: With hold federal funds to those states and municipalities do not help.

      Fun fact; Louisiana was the last state to adopt 21 as the age restriction for alcohol because the perceived loss in sales in alcohol (of people 18-21) would be more than what hey were going to get from the federal government for highways. Not sure if that is still the reason why Louisiana roads are shit.

    44. Re:He's literally not by Luctius · · Score: 1

      "Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous" No need to kill them.

    45. Re:He's literally not by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      whenever I propose this strategy to those who are up in arms about illegal immigration, they don't like it. They don't have any coherent response to it, but they don't like it. The reason they don't like it, of course, is that there's a strong undercurrent of racism in their position, and my proposal would punish Americans and reward illegals, at least at first.

      No, your proposal would punish everyone. Fruit is already going unpicked for a lack of migrant labor. As I've pointed out above, this is a consequence of a too-low minimum wage. Citizens won't pick fruit for minimum wage because it isn't worth the effort. It's hard, often dangerous work which not everyone is even good enough at to be asked back. They cannot maintain the standard of living to which they have become accustomed by taking such a job. Therefore, the only people willing to do the work are people in dire financial straits by our standards. That overwhelmingly means illegal immigrants, who are escaping an even lower standard of living (possibly including a rapid and untimely death) and for whom living ten to a room is an upgrade.

      By all means, punish those who hire illegal immigrants, but only after removing the necessity. Raise the minimum wage to a living wage, and crack down on those who continue to hire illegals since there's only one reason to do that: intending to game the system.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    46. Re:He's literally not by swillden · · Score: 1

      Your argument makes absolutely no sense. If fruit growers need to pay more to hire people, they'll pay more to hire people, no government coercion required.

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    47. Re:He's literally not by swillden · · Score: 1

      There are some undocumented workers using faked or stolen identities, sure. But there are a lot more who work completely under the table and, no, they do *not* make minimum wage.

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    48. Re:He's literally not by swillden · · Score: 1

      I'm good with just opening the doors to unlimited immigration, but my proposal is intended to strike a balance that would make it attractive to those who are deeply opposed to that approach.

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    49. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see the progressive moderators are out in force today.

    50. Re:He's literally not by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Two things:

      For some bizarre reason this turned into a left vs right issue, but that's how everything works in the US because we're not smart enough to understand anything more nuanced than two political stances.

      Not correct at all. We are more than smart enough to understand nuance. The issue is that if you make the argument left vs right, then nuance is drowned. Intentionally. In short, changing the nature of the argument is a rhetorical tool designed to fluster all attempts at a rational discussion... and it apparently works. Very well. Why people agree to be boxed in like that, I have no idea, but meh. It may be just that the mainstream media is merely a mouthpiece and has no journalistic integrity of its own anymore.

      There are jobs that American citizens and green card holders really don't want to take if they have a choice. If you want to get rid of undocumented workers I think the smart approach would be to reduce welfare subsidies for able bodied workers.

      If the jobs paid at least minimum wage, I am sure there are plenty of desperate people who would take them. Can't provide food for the kids at $1.16/hr which is what those farmers/ranchers grudgingly pay.

      On to the bolded part: able bodied workers do not get welfare. They get unemployment with its own requirements and limitations. Welfare typically goes to females. If they have children, they get even more. Regardless, I do not want you trying to set social policy please. You are only seeing things from your own perspective. No, I am not insulting you for that. Most people do it. It just makes you NOT the right person to be setting policies. Have a nice day. :)

      --
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    51. Re:He's literally not by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It's really hard to pin any sort of ideology on Trump. Most people are still trying to figure him out and what he stands for. Those who voted for him as his fans (as opposed to those who only voted for a lesser of two evils) probably assume he's got a mirror image of their own political views and will be in for disappointment.

    52. Re:He's literally not by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      However this does not stop the employers who want undocumented workers because they can pay less than minimum wage. Americans don't want those jobs for several reasons, one being that they pay less than minimum wage. If an employer is going to skirt the law to get an undocumented worker then that employer isn't going to suddenly toe the line and follow regulations regarding minimum wage.

      And besides, most of the farm work that uses undocumented labor is not paid hourly but instead paid by the amount of work done (number of baskets of fruit picked, etc). So minimum wage doesn't figure into it.

    53. Re:He's literally not by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      His ideology is really simple:

      Me me me me me everyone else is an idiot me me me me me me

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    54. Re:He's literally not by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. The employers of undocumented works know exactly what they are doing.

    55. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While a good idea, I personally think that's not going to work.

      First of all, you point out your idea won't touch standard of living yet you put in brackets that it will -- product costs will go up and therefore reduce the Standard of American citizens.

      Secondly, the vast majority of undocumented workers are janitors and otherwise menial jobs. These jobs are already being paid minimum wage because of the companies that employ them -- they would do so even if it were legitimate Americans.

      He's a quick breakdown (you can ignore the content of the article -- just interested in the graphs): http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/10/immigrants-arent-stealing-american-jobs/433158/)

      Thirdly, many of these undocumenteds are the stay-at-home family *OR* second generation (which means they did nothing illegally).

      It's actually kind of odd hearing right wing people complain about relaxing business regulations when it's these same companies that are permitting this crap to happen -- Disney just axed their IT department and replaced them with H1Bs and now they're whispering into the ear of the P-E.

    56. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird, Canada has more benefits and more relaxed rules but you don't see that many people sneak in.

    57. Re:He's literally not by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Instead of small parties forming a coalition after the elections, in the US you get small factions forming the coalitions during the primary elections. Ie, the "Tea Party" was acting as a kingmaker, sometimes the evangelicals, even though these are not political parties. What you don't see often though are these factions crossing the party line, they are mostly convinced that they are a core constituent of just one party. Even those party members who aren't as rigidly ideological will work with or allly with the other party but without leaving their current party.

    58. Re:He's literally not by swillden · · Score: 1

      You explained why my proposal is unnecessary and possibly a bad idea, not why it won't work. If you really want to end the vast majority of illegal immigration, it absolutely will work, and it'll be one hell of a lot cheaper and more effective than a big wall. I, personally, don't care about ending illegal immigration. Or, rather, my ideal world proposal would be to end it by removing restrictions on immigration. But for those who want to end it, there's a cheap and easy solution which they don't like because it's insufficiently punitive.

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    59. Re:He's literally not by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Your argument makes absolutely no sense. If fruit growers need to pay more to hire people, they'll pay more to hire people, no government coercion required.

      The irony in the situation that you are missing is that the minimum wage isn't enough to attract migrant workers any more, either. They're either grouping together and spending their money to buy land and becoming the farmers themselves, producing high-profit-margin products and keeping the money. But that doesn't pick the mass-market stuff that keeps cheap food on shelves. Or, they're actually going back to Mexico because things are better there.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    60. Re:He's literally not by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Oh I'm not saying I want to do what you bolded, I just said it might be a smart idea. At least smart when looking at the problem only in isolation, but it's not very smart if you look at a broader perspective of society. A dictator could solve all sorts of problems with a heavy hand but that doesn't mean it's a good idea because so very many new problems would arise. Generally society accepts certain problems like undocumented workers because the cure is worse than the disease.

    61. Re:He's literally not by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Due Process? Is that like not enforcing immigration policy because you don't agree with the laws and then filing suit against the states that are doing the administrations job? Is that like when the Supreme Court UNANIMOUSLY rules against you more than any other US president in history? When ALL the liberal, moderate, and conservative judges UNITE against you?

      What due process are you talking about exactly?

    62. Re:He's literally not by hey! · · Score: 1

      Sure. But the game is to keep your coalition together and split the other guy's. The difference in the Westminster system is that this could happen any time party discipline breaks down.

      It's still the case that third parties organized around strict ideological discipline don't accomplish anything in the US system. This isn't deliberately baked into the system, it's an emergent property.

      --
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    63. Re:He's literally not by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Good responses.

      It occurs to me that maybe to take care of the continuing and future loss of blue-collar jobs, a solution to the problem would be to put them on govt payroll. The 10-point plan mentions tripling ICE personnel. Many of the other goals will require a larger enforcement presence, too. Since DHS was created it's been a terrific make-work program. Of course, that presents an even greater opportunity for employment. See "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?".

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    64. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a fan because he's entertaining and shows some potential to, for better or worse, buck the trend of the last hundred years of the United States. Which is not a solely good thing, but it's, I think, a net good thing.

      The US being a global power has been terrible for the US

    65. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The kernel of democracy is that the state (whole) exists to represent the interest of it's constituents (parts).

      The state caring for those that are not it's constituents would be a major breach of that fundamental duty.

    66. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Immigrants didn't stop coming to the United States in 2009 because Obama decided he wanted to kick them out, or because he deported more of them. They stopped coming because the US was in recession and the economy had collapsed, removing incentives for people to live here.

    67. Re:He's literally not by scatbomb · · Score: 1

      5. Immediately terminate President Obama’s two illegal executive amnesties. All immigration laws will be enforced – we will triple the number of ICE agents. Anyone who enters the U.S. illegally is subject to deportation. That is what it means to have laws and to have a country.

      Obama got carried away. DACA and DAPA were/are a bad call. A lawyer should have know better. I can't wait until Americans get a shot at the 18 million jobs that those 5 million jobs illegals will leave behind. I just can't wait to see Joe Plumber in the fields at 4 am picking cabbage for $3/hour, then off to hang drywall or put on roofs in 110 degree heat for $4.50/hr. Let's make American heart attacks great again! All kidding aside, do you have any idea of the kinds of jobs that illegals hold, what they get paid and their working conditions? They are basically hostages working for sub-minimal wages under daily threat of deportation from employers.

      I can't understand your position on this. Are you saying it's better to keep illegal aliens working for sub-standard wages because Americans won't? Because I think it's pretty horrifying that you're OK with that. We have laws regarding immigration not just to protect Americans, the rules are also there to protect immigrants from exactly the sort of abuses you're talking about. We can't simply ignore immigration law because it's inconvenient and/or we like cheap food. People entering the country need to be doing so through proper legal channels.

    68. Re: He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just ruined the futurama intro for me forever.

    69. Re:He's literally not by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      I'm not ok with it. IMHO, Obama's executive action was wrong. Entering the country illegally is wrong. It's wrong for coyotes to collect a fee to smuggle foreign nationals into the US then leave them stranded to die in the desert. It's wrong to exile an American child to Mexico because his or her parents entered illegally. It's wrong for American companies to employ illegal alien workers. It's wrong for greedy employers to underpay or abuse illegal aliens. Politicians and other sleezeballs who claim that illegal aliens are stealing fabulous high-paying jobs from Americans are wrong. People who don't challenge those assertions and insist on proof are wrong.
      There's very little that feels "right" about this. How can an American be compassionate, engaged and dedicated to improving the human condition without being accused of being a traitor or fucksnake? It's really frustrating.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    70. Re: He's literally not by yuriklastalov · · Score: 1

      Clearly Trebuchets are the only way.

    71. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that's Trump's plan... wreck the economy so the illegals self-deport.

      Yuge!

    72. Re:He's literally not by bfpierce · · Score: 1

      Also hilarious you think I wanted Clinton to win.

      There's a reason you voted for Trump, you can't think deeper than the surface. Hence why you actually think these things can be done, they can't, and they likely won't even be tried.

      You got conned by a pro, how does it feel to get pwned that hard?

    73. Re:He's literally not by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      most of the farm work that uses undocumented labor is not paid hourly but instead paid by the amount of work done (number of baskets of fruit picked, etc). So minimum wage doesn't figure into it.

      The vast majority of farm work happens on large operations now, because the vast majority of small farmers have been bought out. These large operations aren't using undocumented labor. They may be calling INS to pick people up before they can get their last paycheck, but they're not using undocumented labor.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    74. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a very easy way to make it objectively less attractive to work here, without touching wages or standard of living (well, the cost of goods produced with cheap illegal immigrant labor will go up). All you have to do is ensure that no Americans will hire illegals because the risk of doing so is too high. First step: attach criminal penalties, including non-trivial jail time, to knowingly hiring undocumented workers, and impose heavy fines on those who hired them without doing their due diligence.

      People risk serious jail time and fines all the time.

      Moreover, it will be trivial to fake "due dilligence" with bogus paperwork, not to mention all the ways that business can be done under the table.

      Then you will have the uphill battle of getting juries to put rich people in jail. If you think that "regular people" are not going to bend over backwards to look the other way when rich people break the law and/or screw them over just look at who those rubes just put in the Oval Office.

      Your idea will not work.

    75. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why do you number your paragraphs like that?

      those arent separate points, just one dopey rant, and you look like a goof

    76. Re:He's literally not by swillden · · Score: 1

      There's a very easy way to make it objectively less attractive to work here, without touching wages or standard of living (well, the cost of goods produced with cheap illegal immigrant labor will go up). All you have to do is ensure that no Americans will hire illegals because the risk of doing so is too high. First step: attach criminal penalties, including non-trivial jail time, to knowingly hiring undocumented workers, and impose heavy fines on those who hired them without doing their due diligence.

      People risk serious jail time and fines all the time.

      Not when getting caught is virtually guaranteed.

      Moreover, it will be trivial to fake "due dilligence" with bogus paperwork, not to mention all the ways that business can be done under the table.

      Won't matter if getting caught is almost guaranteed and the fines are heavy.

      Then you will have the uphill battle of getting juries to put rich people in jail. If you think that "regular people" are not going to bend over backwards to look the other way when rich people break the law and/or screw them over just look at who those rubes just put in the Oval Office.

      People aren't going to decide that they can risk getting caught and prosecuted just because the jury might be friendly.

      Your idea will not work.

      Perhaps not, but none of your arguments hold water, so you still haven't made a case as to why not.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    77. Re:He's literally not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have seen plenty of Trump supporters committing violence, but have only heard confirmed hoaxes about violence against Trump supporters, including some guys that beat each other up and tried to blame it on black people. They were too stupid to not film them punching each other though, and got caught.

  29. Re:Tit for tat... by zieroh · · Score: 0, Troll

    Fucking lefty precious snowflake trigger warning echo chamber.

    This fucking lefty isn't afraid to post non-AC. What the fuck are you afraid of?

    I'll tell you what you're afraid of: you know damn well that you'll look like a fucking douchebag in 4 years, and you don't especially want to associate it with your actual (probably mostly pseudonymous) username.

    Chickenshit.

    --
    People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
  30. And some of us... by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    Some of us were worried that Trump was going to be petty, and seek revenge against those who he felt wronged him in the past, especially during the campaign.

    And some of us thought the liberals were going to be petty and seek revenge.

  31. Twitter should just cancel Trump's account. by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

    It's his preferred way to communicate with the public, so it would probably hurt.

    1. Re:Twitter should just cancel Trump's account. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      He can just use Facebook, or even better, start a message board of his own, and his followers would come. Them, plus the media that wants to report on everything he announces

    2. Re:Twitter should just cancel Trump's account. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's his preferred way to communicate with the public, so it would probably hurt.

      As they are a private company, they have the right to do so. I'm fairly sure they would take a serious hit for doing it. Right away you'd have a competing company open, now whether that company would eventually fold or succeed is unclear. I tend to think they would eventually fold unless propped up, though it is also possible that twitter would be hurt enough to eventually have to fold. Whatever happened it would certainly be interesting.

      Trump should not be using twitter as a way to avoid talking to the press. Why he does it is obvious. He has said a lot of indefensible things, and doesn't want called out on them. The simple solution is to just say everyone who says I'm a liar is lying to you. The only path to truth is though my wisdom. Follow me at ....

      I wonder if Trumpism could be called a religion. Most religions have lots of non verifiable things you have to take on faith. Trumpism is the opposite. It has lots of scientifically verifiable things your asked to believe the opposite of, and any thing said may be revised to be the new truth the next day.

      Nah, Trumpism sounds less like a religion and more like a psychological disorder.

    3. Re:Twitter should just cancel Trump's account. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He'd like nothing better than for Twitter to cancel his account.

      What, you think he wants people in four years' time looking back over his record and screenshotting what he said in the past year? I mean, obviously that's gonna happen anyway, but if he distances himself from Twitter between now and then, his faithful brownshirts then will be able to say "That's a fake, everyone knows Donald hates Twitter" - and such is the public's attention span (as we've seen all too recently) that a good percentage will believe them.

      Mark my words, @realDonaldTrump will dump Twitter within the next year. If he can get Twitter to boot him, then he gets to play the "persecuted by the elites" card again into the bargain.

  32. Weird behaviour by Twitter by quantaman · · Score: 2

    First they were going to allow a custom emoji for "#CrookedHillary", then when it got too offensive/slanderous they decided "no, we won't do political emojis".

    Wouldn't a better policy simply be to say "we don't do emojis that denigrate other people"?

    --
    I stole this Sig
    1. Re:Weird behaviour by Twitter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps, but then they would have to delete half their current emojis.

    2. Re:Weird behaviour by Twitter by swillden · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but then they would have to delete half their current emojis.

      What people-denigrating emojis do they have?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  33. Simple solution for Twitter by DeathElk · · Score: 0

    Simple solution for Twitter; ban the fat orange cunt.

    1. Re:Simple solution for Twitter by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Simple solution for Twitter; ban the fat orange cunt.

      It would be fun and satisfying to do that (think of the epic ragefest he'd have), but I say let the tiny-handed goober spew his mindless bullshit in the open for everyone to see. Let him display his breathtaking ignorance and bigotry publicly so the whole world knows what a petty whackadoodle he is.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  34. Right out of the Chris Christie grudge playbook by zuki · · Score: 2

    Not sure how much credence to give to such a report, but if it turns out to be true it would totally be in line with NJ governor Chris Christie's aides shutting down lanes of the GW Bridge in retribution for the town they pass through having voted against him.

    That playbook sure seems to be a popular one, so especially knowing Trump's legendary vindictiveness we should not be surprised in the least that such a thing might be true for Twitter being penalized.

    Then again if I was one of Trump's aides and needed an empty 'spin excuse' to explain why? I'd state that "Given how much Twitter's social platform is used by the president-elect every day, it would represent a conflict of interest for someone from that company to get invited to such a meeting." or something equally vacuous.

  35. This just solidifies Twitters irrelevance by IHTFISP · · Score: 2

    If a dispute over emojis (of all things) is enough to tank Twitter, then Twitter is not relevant in the first place.

    --
    Error: NSE - No Signature Error
  36. Re-use by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Perhaps they can re-purpose it for the new #CookedCabinet.

  37. Re:Re-use [Correction] by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Typo: supposed to be "crooked cabinet". Works either way, I suppose.

  38. Apple and Amazon are each 60X the size of Twitter by raymorris · · Score: 5, Informative

    Twitter is worth $13 billion. Amazon $372 billion, Apple $624 billion. President-elect Trump can spend that time talking to a company that employs 3,500 people and shrinking (Twitter), 116,000 (Apple), or 230,000 and growing (Amazon).

    If I were becoming president and I could spend a day talking with someone who hired 80,000 new people last year (plus 100,000 temps), I think I's focus on them for the day rather than Twitter, whose recent "major layoff" was 330 people or so. Amazon hired more people *last month* than Twitter has in it's entire history.

  39. Amazon hired 180,000 people last year by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Last year Amazon created 180,000 new jobs for "schmucks that do the actual work, like you and I." I'm glad President-elect Trump wants to learn more about how they do that.

    1. Re:Amazon hired 180,000 people last year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon is making more money off those workers than they pay them. No business employes people just to get them paid. Well, except for nepotism. See Trump.

  40. Twitter: Close Trump's account! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do it! Grow a pair!

  41. The last 10-20 years... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have been a prologue to a dystopian cyberpunk novel.

    Between the ubiquitous surveillance apparatus being trialled in NYC, London, etc. The roadside surveillance along highways and major roads in the US and UK (and elsewhere!). The legalized hacking of any devices and discussions of banning encryption. The cryptographically signed hardware that nation state actors no doubt have backdoor exploits into 90 percent of the servers and computing power in the world, etc.

    Now we're looking at paper money being replaced fully with electronic transactions, making it even easier to profile you. Furthermore most non-trivial goods have moved to online/special order only methods of purchase, meaning you can't even have a pre-spyware laptop without being flagged by the purchases you need to make to keep it running.

    We are so far into the dystopian prologue that the only way we'll dodge this bullet is due to WW3/Nuclear Winter, or thousands upon thousands of disenfranchised people abandoning their cushy but not quite private enough lives to go create somewhere that enshrines privacy alongside personal freedom in a society where people will refuse to allow any laws or activities to pass which serve to abrogate the protections enshrined around it.

  42. And in other news.. by Z80a · · Score: 1

    Trump is having a tech meeting with Space-X Elon Musk, Apple's Tim Cook, Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg,..

  43. There's more, and stranger. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When these meetings happen, who pays for the rooms and refreshments? Because that money goes to Trump Towers, and the profit to, um, who is it again?

  44. Bezos owns the Washington Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They printed (and continue to print) every bit of anti-Trump fake news they could find, and they make stuff up when they can't find other stuff to print, and Trump still won the election.

    1. Re:Bezos owns the Washington Post by haruchai · · Score: 1

      They printed (and continue to print) every bit of anti-Trump fake news they could find, and they make stuff up when they can't find other stuff to print, and Trump still won the election.

      Thanks, Vlad!!

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    2. Re:Bezos owns the Washington Post by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Please site "They" My current site references was Dump himself.

  45. Consider the source by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    According to Politico...

    You can stop reading right there.

    1. Re:Consider the source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your skepticism is appalling. I happen to know the original unnamed source. He overheard Trump whisper it to his wife just before he went to sleep.

      I am sending this anonymously for obvious reasons.

  46. Re:Apple and Amazon are each 60X the size of Twitt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    President-elect Trump can spend that time talking to a company that employs 3,500 people and shrinking (Twitter), 116,000 (Apple), or 230,000 and growing (Amazon).

    Or he could spend his time talking to Kanye West and traveling across the country to crow about 800 air conditioning jobs.

  47. Next you'll tell me water is wet. Your point? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > Amazon is making more money off those workers than they pay them.

    OMG really? Is water wet too? Do you have a point?
    That's quite true of course. Twitter was losing money from the things their workers were doing, so they had to lay off 9% of their workers; Amazon is making money, so they hired 50% more workers. Businesses hire when they're making more money, lay people off when there is less business.

    > No business employes people just to get them paid.

    Not quite true, I myself created a corporation and a business specifically for the purpose of keeping people employed. Come to think of, MOST businesses in the US exist solely to get workers paid, but you're thinking of a different type of business. Can you figure put which type of business this is?:
    Most businesses in the US are this type.
    Exists only so that the workers get paid.

    Anyway, Amazon is the type of business you're thinking of, which isn't there just to employ people. Yet they DO employ a ton of people. Amazing. Same with Apple. Whatever mechanism turned the self-interest of Steve Jobs into thousands of jobs is pretty amazing. I'm glad Trump is finding out more about how to turn self-interest into enjoyment.

    1. Re:Next you'll tell me water is wet. Your point? by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      I'm glad Trump is finding out more about how to turn self-interest into enjoyment.

      As an aside, I think this is one reason why capitalism works too well. Yes, yes, it isn't perfect, we don't have it fully, etc. etc. etc. But the principle of it compared to say communism:

      Capitalism works because it takes advantage of the greedy and selfish in a way that they can satiate their desires that can better society. Communism requires the greedy and selfish to subjugate their desires to the state or become part of the state.

      An economic system that acknowledges and utilizes human nature will invariably work better (or too well in many cases) than a system that requires humans to behave a certain way for it to work.

  48. s/enjoyment/employment/ by raymorris · · Score: 1

    The final word of my post should be employment, not enjoyment. Something magical turned the self- interest of Jobs into 100,000 jobs. A neat trick, turning self-interest into EMPLOYMENT.

  49. Re: Apple and Amazon are each 60X the size of Twit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mmm salty!

    Cry for us.

  50. Wrong Fallacy: Correlation != Causation by danaris · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do the deaths of little people not matter as long as the great leap forward is achieved? Do you think the statist socialist places weren't doing socialism hard enough, or will you make a 'no true Scottsman' argument and claim they weren't doing it right? It's just that every single time... every. time... every. single. time... it ends in rivers of blood. The useful idealists are liquidated the moment they object.

    I'm not going to make a "no true Scotsman" argument, because it's irrelevant whether what they were trying to achieve was "true" socialism.

    Socialism, communism, capitalism—none of those have anything particular to do with mass state-sponsored murder. If you think socialism—things like Medicare, Social Security, and the Earned Income Tax Credit—can in any meaningful causative way lead to millions dead, then you're the one who's deluded.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:Wrong Fallacy: Correlation != Causation by ooloorie · · Score: 0

      Socialism, communism, capitalism—none of those have anything particular to do with mass state-sponsored murder

      Socialism and communism certainly do. Their principle tenet is to give more power and more information to the state. Once you do that, the people running the state will use that and transform your communist utopia into a dictatorship. Invariably.

      You are right that capitalism has nothing to do with state-sponsored murder. At best, you might say that capitalism results in privately sponsored murders, although that seems to be historically much less common.

    2. Re:Wrong Fallacy: Correlation != Causation by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      Socialism not having a causative relationship to millions dead?

      Funny how a Nobel prize winning economist wrote an entire book back in the 40s illustrating and predicting why that sort of mass murdering dictator would always end up in power under that sort of system. It turns out that we have lots of examples (Germany, USSR, Spain, Cuba, China, Venezuela, etc...) of how it works in practice.

      The main problem is that people who get ahead under socialism are those who are more and more ruthless about wanting to run other people's lives, while the people who want to do good for people and let them run their own lives aren't the type to go after government power. If you put the power to run people's lives for them (which is ultimately what socialism is, as it's actually implemented in government) in the hands of government officials, then don't be surprised when people who want to run other's lives are attracted to controlling that power.

      Sure, if you don't have full blown socialism, just some socialist programs, their power is more limited over you, but that's not an argument for continuing and expanding the government's power over people's lives... which is what the government has been doing for at least 70 years or more in the United States and many the places.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    3. Re:Wrong Fallacy: Correlation != Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Socialism, communism, capitalism—none of those have anything particular to do with mass state-sponsored murder. If you think socialism—things like Medicare, Social Security, and the Earned Income Tax Credit—can in any meaningful causative way lead to millions dead, then you're the one who's deluded.

      sure it does. these are all funny "money".

      which is a mandatory thing for "war"

      central banking funny "money" and "war" go together like 2 peas in a pod.

      if you had "social security" "medicare" "earned income tax credit" and were actually using real "money" then "war" is much more difficult.

      likewise, politicians trying to convince peoplee to go along with their "wars" it is much easier if people don't pay up front, but you inflate the "money supply" and they pay for it over decades.

      so yes, these things are all very connected to "war" and "murder of millions"

      funny money and "War" go together.

      if you were using actual "capital" and "money" it would be a different story.

      paper "Credit" and debt notes, requires FORCE and "legal tender" laws to implement all your "reforms"

      so there is plenty of overlap between your "reforms" and "murder of millions" and other "war".

      real "money" you don't need "laws" to force people to accept. french revolution was the same. hitler too (despite demonizing jews, he had little to no gold).

      all these "reformers" have to imprison people who do not accept worthless pieces of paper (or digital equivalents) as "value". "murder of millions" that may not be, but there is plenty of overlap.

    4. Re:Wrong Fallacy: Correlation != Causation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interestingly, this post is actually true: the suspension of direct convertability and associated increases in money supplies seem to be primarily due to the need for wartime capital. This is not necessarily an argument against paper credit or credit in general, nor does it have anything to do with socialism or capitalism, but it's at least interesting to see a conspiracy theory that is founded on something wholly factual.

  51. In re Mr. Trump on Nov 15th, 2016 by fyngyrz · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Trump still won the election.

    Right now, Mr. Trump is the person who lost the popular vote. By millions of votes.

    He's not the president-elect unless the electoral college vote next week overrides the popular vote.

    That will probably happen, based on arbitrary pro-bias applied to votes coming out of low-population regions (and outright abandonment of the EC's obligation to pick a qualified candidate); but until/unless it does happen, Mr. Trump's operating on an assumption, not an election, and so is anyone else who assumes this is a done deal.

    Moving forward after the EC votes, assuming Mr. Trump wins that vote, anyone who thinks that he "won the election" might want to keep in mind that the majority of Americans selected Mrs. Clinton -- by a significant margin, as in, no doubt about it. The election he would have won is that of the electoral college, that august institution that disenfranchises the citizens of their votes. He has no mandate. We're also already seeing considerable congressional resistance to many of his stated goals.

    So don't be too smug.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re: In re Mr. Trump on Nov 15th, 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Trump doesn't win the EC there will be a civil war.

    2. Re: In re Mr. Trump on Nov 15th, 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just curious why do you feel the need to add other parties votes to justify a position ? I mean if I add all the parties votes together, "I" won the election with an overwhelming majority of 100%

      Just trying to show that sort of thing is just ass-hatery

    3. Re:In re Mr. Trump on Nov 15th, 2016 by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      The problem we have with current AI systems filtering out content is that the mathematics for filtering out sets of grinning showoffs. Something else H1B Zombies can't do.

      You're a god damned lair.

    4. Re:In re Mr. Trump on Nov 15th, 2016 by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      He's not the president-elect unless the electoral college vote next week overrides the popular vote.

      There's no such thing as "overriding" the popular vote. The electoral college is how it works in the presidential election.

      anyone who thinks that he "won the election" might want to keep in mind that the majority of Americans selected Mrs. Clinton

      No, they didn't. Hillary Clinton won 48.3% of the popular vote. So she didn't win the majority of the popular vote. Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, voter turnout was 58.6%. So only a little over half of those eligible to vote actually did so. Which means 28.3% of eligible voters actually voted for her. Hardly the majority of Americans.

      I didn't like any of our choices this time around. But the electoral college is how the presidential election works. I don't follow any professional sports, but a friend of mine who follows baseball made an interesting comment about it. Apparently the totals runs for all of the games in the world series this year were 27 for each team. Obviously it wasn't' declared a tie, so depending on which games they scored makes a difference. Just like where the votes are counted makes a difference. Be it right or wrong, that's the system we have in place.

    5. Re: In re Mr. Trump on Nov 15th, 2016 by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      That part of my reply was directly in response to the false claim that Mrs. Clinton won "the majority" of votes, which she did not. I then added the other parties to further show that 'her side' didn't even win the majority of the popular vote. She simply won a larger percent of the liberal vote than Mr. Trump won of the conservative vote.

      Also, I don't like the fact that so many people keep making this a two horse race. I voted for Jill Stein, and want my vote to count. So, yes, I will add in more parties if I please.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  52. Re:Apple and Amazon are each 60X the size of Twitt by FilmedInNoir · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, well Jack Dorsey doesn't need Trump anyways... He's currently listening to a band you probably never heard of while sipping a craft beer.

    --
    Sig. Sig. Sputnik
  53. Uncivil action by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Highly doubtful. Even the people who voted for Trump aren't broadly clueless enough to destroy their ability to live in relative comfort and safety.

    What would probably happen would be a couple more occupations of wildlife refuges or similar by those too dim to remember to pack socks for a midwinter camping trip.

    But if imagining a civil war is what lets you sleep smiling... by all means, carry on. We all have our dreams.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re: Uncivil action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't underestimate the probability of civil war. At any one time the government (government employees) is at most comprised of 10% of the population; even that is an exaggeration. If they can be sucessfully organized, revolutions will almost certainly succeed or at least cause civil war. As the populace always outnumbers the gov't, the government is right to fear the masses.

  54. A "twitter tantrum". by denzacar · · Score: 1

    You misspelled it.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  55. My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Denial runs deep in you.

    I simply described the facts as they stand at this point in time. I'm not denying anything at all.

    Trump will probably be elected next week. That's how the EC votes look to be allocated right now. That is the actual election. Not the popular vote. The popular vote is, as we have just been reminded, not the determining factor in who gets to be president.

    Pretending that's a good thing, no, that I'm not inclined to do. I am fairly confident that should we, as seems quite likely, endure a Trump presidency, it will eventually be described as "Like Bush II, but considerably more damaging to the nation."

    It will be very interesting to watch. As for me being "butthurt", I am quite certain that the middle-income and poor people who voted for this man are going to suffer worse than I will as a result of those of his policies that he manages to put in place through whatever means -- congress, executive orders, direct control via the executive branch hierarchy. presidential authority for foreign policy decisions, etc.

    I do feel bad for those people. It's one thing to observe that they have been hoodwinked. It would be quite another to glory in their suffering. I won't be doing that.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      I am quite certain

      I can find as many people that were 'quite certain' Obama was going to start sharia law, take all their guns, declare himself president for life, ...

    2. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Pretending that's a good thing, no, that I'm not inclined to do.

      Well, one way to look at it: Name another country that is able to have a peaceful transition of power to a different ideology a by a technical minority of voters? China is parading the election as proof that a one party system is best but I actually think that this shows the benefits. Now, before you get all doom and gloom about Trump and the possibilities consider this: US elections and politics have ALWAYS been divisive except during times of war. The rhetoric used to condemn Trump really put media in a corner because even if he does something good; How can you give a racist any credit for doing something good? Our dirty laundry is out for everyone to see instead of a single narrative that uses force to ensure its own survival. We know our problems and we can talk about them. If we cannot temper our passion with reason and rational when discussing those problems then we shouldn't make a decision. This is built in our government and inaction is a feature. This goes both ways of course.

      I do think that the EC is a good thing in that is tempers the passion of the larger public and protects the minority from a simple majority. That is one of the weaknesses of Democracy; the quick and every changing passions of the public and the damned simple majority. Your candidate may have lost but we are still one nation with the same checks and balances. If the president is too powerful that he can do all the evil things we hear about from left news media, then perhaps we should reign in the POTUS's power.

    3. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I don't think you can remember yesterday, let alone 8 years ago. Or maybe the meth in your trailer park is different? So, prove it.

    4. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I see a business oriented Supreme Court. I see a Koch brothers Congress. I see a Meglamanic coming to the Oval Office. What could possibly go wrong?

    5. Re: My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mrs. Thatcher won in 1979 with, AFAIK, 42% of the vote, Labour in 1997 with about 42% of the vote. So the UK would be an example.

    6. Re: My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's actually an interesting point, and I am speaking as someone who dislikes Trump.

    7. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      I see a business oriented Supreme Court.

      If the appointees do not have a "living document" philosophy on the constitution I don't care so much who they are. An example, while Citizens United sounds bad and does have some bad consequences; a strict reading of the constitution would allow for such shenanigans. Your money is yours and is up to you how you spend it, even if you have billions. I don't know the answer to that issue but the courts leaving it to Congress is a good thing because we shouldn't base our decisions on rash emotions. If we can't all agree on something as important as campaign finance; inaction is a feature.

      I see a Koch brothers Congress.

      Congressional elections have nothing to do with the presidency. What is your point? Koch brothers have influence in Congress no matter who won? Just like Soros? No! You don't say?

      I see a Meglamanic coming to the Oval Office

      As opposed to the other megalomaniac? It isn't the first or the last megalomaniac to enter the Oval Office and that is why the checks and balances and division of power of the federal government is important. What is your point? Why should I care if all that has happened is an election? Getting hung up on possibilities and conjecture is no way to live. Deal with real actions and concern yourself with real issues. Not what ifs.

      What could possibly go wrong?

      The same wrong that could happen if the other lizard got into office. Big fucking deal. At least, we are less likely to go to war with Russia with this lizard. Talk to me when he does something wrong instead of doing a "possibly" wrong.

    8. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I don't know the answer
      Then an intelligent action is to listen; that statement means any thing after it, is a lie.

      Why did you lie?

    9. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Wow. The most intelligent man in the ancient world was the man that admitted he knew little.

      I don't know the answers because there are a lot of possible solutions that may or may not be better than what we currently have. Not making a decision so that I can listen to other options and reasons is exactly what I am talking about. Ruling strictly on the constitution and then leaving that to the public and Congress is a good thing. Note: by leaving it to Congress it leaves it to the people because elections. How many different solutions to that problem have you heard? Would you have heard them if the courts ruled in a 'living document' fashion?

      I am honest enough to know when I don't have the answers to complex issues we face. I didn't lie you disingenuous fuck and that one statement does not undermine anything I said.

    10. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Well I wasn't trying to be helpful by pointing out the painfully obviousness of your ignorance. So this means you have no idea how to apply the term, "disingenuous." As for the use of the word, "fuck," there again your cluelessness of the use of the term makes you a danger to yourself and infant hedge hogs. You don't have to accept that you're stupid, but your personal pain will be less when you do.

      And this is what "disingenuous fuck" would say to you, "Clearly you would have a hell of career if you got a job in Bomb Disposal." LMAO

    11. Re:My butt is quite comfortable, thank you. :) by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      lol sure thing scrub.

  56. Re:Apple and Amazon are each 60X the size of Twitt by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Also, is it really "worth" 13 Billion? Last I heard they have never posted a profit ever, were shopping around to get bought out by one of the bigger players like MS, and no one was interested (at least the the valuation they were offering)...

  57. Remember GM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Story where Obama called up GM to fire their CEO because he wasn't doing what Obama wanted.

    Are you afraid the president may fire top executives at large companies and replace them with his own pick as he seizes the company from the stock/bond holders and hands it out to his political supporters (unions). I missed the part where you were complaining when it WAS ALREADY DONE.

  58. True, Trump may be worth more than Twitter by raymorris · · Score: 1

    That's true, using other valuation methods Twitter may be worth $1 billion. Meanwhile, Trump's *personal* net worth is around $4 billion.

  59. Politico lost integrity by backwardsposter · · Score: 1

    Politico lost their integrity for me this year and as such I won't recognize any story as legitimate, especially one so obviously trying to start something where there is nothing. The story here isn't Twitter's denial, but another example of how Politico has an agenda. News shouldn't have an agenda.

  60. Oh please by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    Trump's adviser Sean Spicer denied the report, saying "the conference table was only so big."

    Yeah, it's a known fact that finding a larger table is simply impossible.

    Face it, this was tit-for-tat retaliation. Just once I'd like Mein Fuhrer to be honest and say, "Yeah, this is payback!"

    They wanted an emoji for their stupid "Lock her up" meme and Twitter said no, so they got all pissy, wah wah wah! But I'm surrrrrrrrrrrrrrre the Trumpanzees would have had no problem with an orange monkey-face emoji to stand in for Donald, right? Right?

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  61. Re:Tit for tat... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    Fucking lefty precious snowflake trigger warning echo chamber.

    This fucking lefty isn't afraid to post non-AC.

    Same here. I'm a "lefty" (probably way more so than most people here) and I'm not afraid to stand behind what I say. I'll own my words, unlike many right-wingers. No, I'm not some ding-dong SJW or special snowflake, but sure as hell I'm on the left.

    It's mostly Trumpanzees and alt-right fucktards who hide in the shadows taking potshots at people.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  62. Re:Apple and Amazon are each 60X the size of Twitt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But Republicans truly respect the Great Kanye West. They really don't like Common, though.

  63. Made up numbers and defeatism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should run for office, as a Democrat, you would fit right in.

  64. Setting a bad example by sinequonon · · Score: 1

    To me, the trivial nature of the objection sets a really bad example for the kids. It sounds like something an eight year old boy would do, then is scolded by his mother. It's just sad to witness this.

    --
    -Bob-
  65. Why an emoji for a campaign slogan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that will barely be relevant enough to the rest of the world, much less last very long in peoples' minds, how could this possibly warrant its own glyph? Just make a shortcut on your keyboard or in your android dictionary ffs

  66. Special Trump emoji by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

    I think it's probably not a good idea to fjnork around with someone who has a big say in which emoji get created. Ok, so #CR00KEDHillary didn't fly. But does the PE really want to piss off the guy who could create emoji like : #PEDO_Trump
    #TrumpAlzheimers
    #MicroPenisPresident
    #CluelessInChief

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  67. Trump is already wielding power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get used to it. The globalists at the table have hollowed out the middle class. Now they need to pay. The price? Their H1Bs. Hire Americans.

  68. According to Politico??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fake news!!!

  69. Re:Tit for tat... by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

    It's mostly Trumpanzees and alt-right fucktards who hide in the shadows taking potshots at people.

    The irony.

  70. What did this meeting try to solve, exactly? by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Looking at the pictures, no one looked delighted to be there.

    Would you be? As a leader of a tech company, your business is to be smart, hire smart, and look smart. Trump has made himself look like the dumbest person in the country over the last year, and you have to deal with a fucktard that makes Forrest Gump look downright brilliant. You cannot ignore him, as he might try to help you with what he thinks Tech needs and make your life worse. (Example H1-b visas: tech companies want easy visas for as many tech workers as possible vs. Trump riding a wave of populist racism and trying to lock down immigration.)

    He is literally to stupid to be left alone. These guys have to engage with him or risk the consequences, of course they are unhappy. The meeting had no point other than to let Trump try to look like he was 'doing' something to help the economy. None of the guys in the room needed government help to make more money or create jobs.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  71. Publicly consider banning the president-elect... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Publicly consider banning the president-elect, see what happens.

    I'd be thrilled if Trump was able to shut down every company that attempted their own mass censorship (including shadowbans and editing user posts). Censor the censors.

  72. who will you really find? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Here's the thing about my certainty as compared to the folks you are talking about.

    Obama never said anything about sharia law, taking everyone's guns, or declaring himself president for life. That was all right-wing agitprop. Obama was perfectly reasonable about those things. And many others. I think he was a very good president, as they go. One of our best. I don't agree with everything he supports by any means, but the odds of that are pretty much zero no matter who is in there. I don't think he did much additional harm, and he did a great deal of good. There's plenty left to fix, of course -- he did let a number of things continue that I would really rather he had put a stop to. Perhaps someone in the future will get to some of those. Or not.

    Trump, however, has stuffed his cabinet with the ultra-rich who have specific public agendas that counter a great deal of the remaining good things about this country, not to mention stating intent to roll back a lot of social progress -- yes, progress -- and both he and they have stated multiple goals that range from simply unconstitutional to outrageous.

    All it would take for him to really put a hurt on the middle- and low-income folks is to follow through on one or two things, such as actually flushing the immigrants out (watch the prices of fruit and vegetables skyrocket) or applying high tariffs to Chinese imports (watch the prices in big-box, electronics, and clothing store skyrocket) or simply pissing them off really bad about Taiwan (same result is very likely, only perhaps worse)... I mean seriously, the difference is that Obama said nothing crazy, that was all the right-wingers pushing a false narrative. Finding something crazy Trump claims he is going to do... that's the work of a few seconds. The problem there is picking one out of the many to focus upon.

    On the other hand, Trump has recently been very forward in explaining how he straight-up lied to those he got to vote for him.

    Just listen to him. Never mind that it's the Daily Show: ignore everything Trevor Noah has to say and listen to what Trump has to say. His voters were hoodwinked, plain and simple.

    So when I say I'm certain... these are are consequences that will arise from actions Trump and his cabinet have indicated direct intent for. It's not "like Obama." It's "like Trump."

    Bottom line: It looks like a person specifically stating intent to implement seriously problematic policies is going to become president. I anticipate problems if that is the case. Does that really seem unreasonable to you?

    Anyway, if you still think this is "like Obama", I am pretty confident you're really not seeing the big picture: I encourage you to apply a very serious think to the axioms here. Perhaps you'll change positions. Some people can.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  73. The bright light (is an oncoming train) by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    I do think that the EC is a good thing in that is tempers the passion of the larger public and protects the minority from a simple majority

    Well, we will see if it actually does that or not in a few days. I think it's highly unlikely (not impossible, certainly) but would welcome being wrong about this.

    If they simply go by the "winner takes all" metric, as pretty much everyone is assuming, they would be doing the opposite of "protects the minority" (from anything) or "tempering passion" ("passionate" is the kindest word I can think of to describe the reality-divorced voters who selected Trump), and instead, basically going "oh, you want to shoot yourself in the foot? Okay, we'll hold and aim the gun for you. Turns out, you've selected a 12-gauge! This will be awesome! Ready?"

    Yes, I agree, it's better if the transition is peaceful. The country will survive better. The low- and middle-income people are going to bear the brunt if Trump does even a fraction of what he has stated he will do. But the country will come out of it electing someone who is the anti-Trump. Sometimes it takes a real facedown with evil before you really understand what good is. Middle America is about to get that lesson, I think.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:The bright light (is an oncoming train) by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      The winner take all rules are from the individual states and not the Electoral College itself. For example, Maine has its electoral votes split along congressional district lines. That is why Trump has 1 vote and Clinton the other 3 (2?, can't remember exact number). If the states want to get rid of winner take all they can it isn't a function of the college itself per say.

    2. Re:The bright light (is an oncoming train) by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Yes. Also, the electors can simply ignore the state's laws. Their votes will still count. Only four states implement legal penalties, as I understand it.

      But I'm pretty sure we're just going to see a lockstep vote that disenfranchises the majority and screws everyone but the rich in the process.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    3. Re:The bright light (is an oncoming train) by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Calm your tits. It isn't the end of the republic. It won't be the first bad president and it won't be the last.

      "disenfranchises the majority"... lol. Democracy is fundamentally flawed. It is a very VERY good thing we are not a democracy.

    4. Re: The bright light (is an oncoming train) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Already loving the China showdown trump is starting.

      We can take care of unfinished business once and for all again :)

  74. Re:Tit for tat... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    It's mostly Trumpanzees and alt-right fucktards who hide in the shadows taking potshots at people.

    The irony.

    Oh, did I hurt your feelings? Go take a hot bath and have a good cry and you'll feel better.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  75. Kiss the ring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's acting like a king, not a president, so the appropriate phrase is "kiss the ring"

  76. Or ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Trump didn't include them because he's a business man and knows that Twitter, as a business, is so fucked that they are irrelevant.

    Twitter will likely not even exist as a stand-alone company by the end of Trump's first term. They're likely to be bought by some company because that company wants to, be "part of the conversation." That company will try to make the Twitter division profitable, fail miserably, and drive it into the ground. Eventually, it's remaining assets will be sold to some Silicon Valley V.C. for a couple hundred thousand because he's a sentimental nostalgia buff who remembers Twitter's "good old days."