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'Superbug' Resistant To 26 Antibiotics Kills A Patient In Nevada (upi.com)

An anonymous reader quotes UPI: A Nevada woman in her 70s who'd recently returned from India died in September from a "superbug" infection that resisted all antibiotics, according to a report released Friday... The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention "basically reported that there was nothing in our medicine cabinet to treat this lady," report co-author Dr. Randall Todd told the Reno Gazette-Journal. He's director of epidemiology and public health preparedness for the Washoe County Health District, in Reno... CDC testing subsequently revealed the germ was New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase -- a highly resistant form of CRE typically found outside the United States.

296 comments

  1. Welcome to India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Stay out of the river... it's nasty.

    1. Re:Welcome to India by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Stay out of Nevada, too.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Welcome to India by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 2

      Well, stay out of the girls who work there. Nevada itself isn't so bad.

    3. Re:Welcome to India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..another reason to kill h1b.

    4. Re:Welcome to India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Instructions unclear. Dick stuck in a cactus.

    5. Re:Welcome to India by davester666 · · Score: 1

      That's going to hurt in the morning.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    6. Re:Welcome to India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, it hurts NOW!

    7. Re: Welcome to India by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      You realize this woman wasn't immigrating, right? Been in India, came back? Going to outlaw that, are we?

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    8. Re:Welcome to India by dywolf · · Score: 1

      I'd say I did a spit take, but that costs extra in Nevada.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  2. India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Doctors learned the woman – whose name was withheld – had spent two years in India

    Well, there's you problem right there.

    1. Re:India by Cramer · · Score: 1

      And if she'd gone back to (or stayed in) India, she'd've been cured in a day. There's a lot of shit the FDA doesn't approve, and even more things drug companies won't both with because they can't patent it, and/or they can't make billions off of it.

    2. Re: India by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Note the part of the CDC report that mentions it being reported in 28 or some such number of states. In the United States.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  3. Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Our species has been over-using antibiotics for decades as if they were a magic wand. Meanwhile, evolution has been weeding out the week, leaving stronger survivors all the time. Now we shall pay for our foolishness.

    1. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "evolution has been weeding out the week,"

      Well, it was Friday the 13th last week, but no spikes in death yet.

      Are you really unable to tell week from weak?

    2. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can't agree with this enough.

      Speaking of evolution, I really wonder if abusing antibiotics is harmful to our own immune systems. If we don't require our own immune systems to fight off bacteria from time to time, if we aren't exposed to germs, our immune systems won't be as effective.

      Furthermore, we waste antibiotics and prescribe them haphazardly. Some doctors are really quick to prescribe antibiotics, sometimes even for infections that aren't bacterial. Then we waste antibiotics on livestock and put them in the feed supply, meaning we're giving antibiotics to am entire herd when most of the animals aren't even sick. And why would evolution favor livestock with stronger immune systems if we're busy loading them up with antibiotics so they don't get sick?

      Abuse of antibiotics should be criminal. Specifically, doctors who misuse them should lose their licenses to practice medicine. And anyone (doctors or farmers/ranchers) who distribute antibiotics indiscriminately should face some serious fines.

    3. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doctors misuse and improperly prescribe everything and get away with it. I know a urologist who hands out methadone and oxy like its halloween candy. Why the fuck is a urologist even able to prescribe methadone? Is someones bladder having withdrawal?

    4. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course, if you had bothered to RTFA, you would have noticed that the antibiotic resistance element in question most likely came from a pig who was fed the drug in it's feed. So you missed the entire point of TFA. It's not even a drug typically used in humans. It's a last ditch drug because of side effects.

      Apparently deaf pigs with renal failure aren't a big issue.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Kidney stones

    6. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yep! Some doctors prescribe antibiotics as haphazardly as I use exclamation points!

    7. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just hope evolution leaves the months alone!

    8. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FIFY

      Because every time little Jose gets the sniffles, its off the the emergency room to get a z-pack. Free! God bless US tax payers.

    9. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by DivineKnight · · Score: 1, Insightful

      In other words, it's a clickbait article (but then, any article decrying the end of the world tends to be).

      Having RTFA (and some others, apparently), the bacteria in question is resistant the 26 antibiotics on the US shortlist of approved antibiotics (read that again, and think about what that means). Posthumously, they found that this strain is probably susceptible to fosfomycin (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nevada-woman-died-near-ultimate-superbug-n706641).

      What more, there are more than 26 antibiotics in existence...and all of you who believe this super-bug stuff need your heads examined.

    10. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      *Edit: crying, not decrying. Except on Tuesdays.

    11. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all of you who believe this super-bug stuff need your heads examined.

      Are you implying that antibiotic-resistant pathogens are a myth?

    12. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by omtinez · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I opened both links, even went to the actual CDC report (link: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum...) and there are exactly zero references for the bacteria coming from pigs. Try searching for the words "pig" and "farm". So much for lecturing others on reading TFA...

    13. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      These new superbugs are starting to sounds as bad as millennials.
      surely there is something that can be done.

    14. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey asshole, can you guess what my name is? And for bonus pints, can you take a wild guess as to how much in taxes I pay? Fucking idiot.

    15. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Methadone is often used in chronic base level pain control, quite a bit safer than fentanyl patches actually.

    16. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jose and $0?

    17. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Chrontius · · Score: 2

      Methadone is actually a very effective painkiller in its own right - and for such a powerful painkiller, it's surprisingly hard to accidentally die because of it.

    18. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by dpilot · · Score: 2

      From what I've read, it's not so much little Johnny and his sniffles as it is the meat and poultry he eats. Our livestock, particularly the factory-farm variety, get antibiotics routinely.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    19. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Evidently, the "good" stuff is reserved for non "common" people...

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    20. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NOTHING the invisible hand can't fix!

    21. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by peragrin · · Score: 1

      While I don't disagree the simple fact is all the really nasty diseases are coming from outside areas where antibiotics are abused.

      This isn't Europe or Canada these diseases are coming from India and Africa where antibiotics are harder to get and more expensive. Places where they don't use anti bacterial soap on every hand washing.

      Evolution is breeding these germs in places they can be bred

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    22. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha fucking classic.

    23. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by ruir · · Score: 1

      I do not know in what world you live, but in my mine they feed antibiotics to cattle and farmed sea food "preemptively" to fatten it in the former, and for it to not drop dead from infections and parasites in the latter. And OMS has been saying for too many years antibiotics are ten years away from failing to being effective, but money speaks higher.

    24. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      What do you mean, "outside areas where antibiotics are abused"? India is one of those places.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    25. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you win that bonus pint? I'd love a free pint of beer right now. Lucky you.

    26. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Of course, if you had bothered to RTFA, you would have noticed that the antibiotic resistance element in question most likely came from a pig who was fed the drug in it's feed.

      How is that not overuse of antibiotics?

      --
      No sig today...
    27. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by DivineKnight · · Score: 2

      *Sigh*. If you read the article from the link provided, you would find that we have fosfomycin in the US, it's just not on the short list of approved antibiotics; it is, however, approved for some form of cysts...and its usage here would simply be an off-label usage. In other countries, it seems, it is on their short list of approved antibiotics.

    28. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      Donnie Trump & $0.00?

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    29. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by syntotic · · Score: 1

      metallo-? They have been experimenting because WE IMBECILES, insist in giving them our technologies for free on the ideas of some dead Economist. It is who tried to convince some people I was interested in metalloorganicity since before the 2000 so these ideas... not wasted, someone got them and has been developing. VERY LIKELY some Indians entered the mix of it was not he whole mix was concocted by them. No one can understand this is an attack against antibiotics? Consequece? Do not use them, they do not work, do not produce them, etc. If we do not wake up India will win again as they won in India a few timeS ago.

    30. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Some basic analysis of his reply and the comment he replied to suggests he was mocking the claim that Medicaid (overuse of the antibiotics in humans) is the problem, not overuse of antibiotics.

    31. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is an overuse of antibiotics. what makes you think someone said it's not? or, I get it. do the needful retard and learn english.

    32. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jose, some of the taxes you pay at the local level are given to the community college in your area. They offer english as a second language courses within your price range. also - I don't believe mexican beer comes in pints - does it? I of course don't know much about mexican beer - in fact all I know is that it's not safe to drink w/o a lime to kill the bacteria from melted ice water. This has to do with mexico being close to a 3rd world country outside of the tourist zones. much like India. Oh - sweet. I wrapped it back around on topic.

    33. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Doctors misuse and improperly prescribe everything and get away with it. I know a urologist who hands out methadone and oxy like its halloween candy. Why the fuck is a urologist even able to prescribe methadone? Is someones bladder having withdrawal?

      Someone needs a kidney stone to find out the answer .

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    34. Re:Think of it as evolution in action. by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      And, former treatments that cost next-to-nothing are, mainly, relegated to the pages of history... that very few read... like HCl (hydrochloric acid) therapy.

      It blew my mind, the things that some people will think will work and end up performing better than they ever thought. Case histories, here:

      http://www.townsendletter.com/...

      I also saw that high-doses of vitamin C brought a man back from the brink of death --he was in a coma and it woke him almost immediately after the first dose was administered, IIRC. From 60 Minutes, New Zealand edition:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Many accounts of this non-toxic vitamin can be found regarding it curing almost any ailment or disease... it's amazing to think, now that I know from some research, that the US RDA for vitamin C is just enough to keep the average person at a pre-scurvy state of health.

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    35. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Me too on this. Do they have big pig farms in India where this woman got the disease? Where they pump antibiotics into the animal feed like they do here? For that matter, do they feed pigs in this country carbpenem antibiotics? The stuff ain't cheap like generic ampicillin or whatever they buy by the gallon.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    36. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt?

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    37. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't say anything about India other than take your damn people back, but Mexico is 3rd world in the 'advanced' cities. In the countryside, it is like ISIS controlled territory minus the high tech and Japanese cars.

    38. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A girl needs a prostate before a girl can understand.

    39. Re: Think of it as evolution in action. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      A girl needs a prostate before a girl can understand.

      Did you just assume AC's gender?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  4. India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Years ago I knew a girl who was a fellow student in high school.
    She took a trip to India and came in contact with some awful pathogen which
    proceeded to destroy multiple organs and resulted in her death, despite the
    best available medical care in the US.

    India is still a filthy third world country, with raw sewage flowing in the streams and rivers.

    Given how many good, interesting, and quite safe places there are to travel in the world, you'd
    have to wonder why people want to go to a shithole like India.

    1. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There were and are intelligent people in India as there are in all countries.

      The issue with India is the lack of sanitation.

      You need to become acquainted with the term "non sequitur".

    2. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Given how many good, interesting, and quite safe places there are to travel in the world, you'd
      have to wonder why people want to go to a shithole like India.

      Have you ever been to Nevada?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are rules and if you break the rules, you will be affected. When visiting India or Thailand and other places, please make sure to drink bottled water at all times, and eat cooked food. It is as simple as that.

    4. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Given how many good, interesting, and quite safe places there are to travel in the world, you'd
      have to wonder why people want to go to a shithole like India.

      Have you ever been to Nevada?

      Yes. And I didn't seen any raw sewage floating in any bodies of water there, either.

      Have you ever been told that you say idiotic things that make you look like you are an annoying stupid prick
      who needs a broken jaw ?

    5. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, many times. Reno and its environs mostly. I can't say I am partial to high desert. I really don't care for it - but many people say it is beautiful. I don't much care for the casino area downtown. But the rest of it seems fine.

    6. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      You're welcome world.

      Thanks, shithole country, for killing Ramanujan, who died at age 32.

      A 1994 analysis of Ramanujan's medical records and symptoms by Dr. D. A. B. Young concluded that it was much more likely he had hepatic amoebiasis, an illness then widespread in Madras, rather than tuberculosis. He had two episodes of dysentery before he left India. When not properly treated, dysentery can lie dormant for years and lead to hepatic amoebiasis. Amoebiasis was a treatable and often curable disease at the time

    7. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1, Funny

      "India is still a filthy third world country, with raw sewage flowing in the streams and rivers."

      Then again if you were born in India, and grow up with your immune system warding off the bugs, you will probably be able to leap tall buildings and shoot webs with your fingertips. Why waste your time giving Americans bad customer service from call centers?

    8. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...you'd have to wonder why people want to go to a shithole like India.

      because you appreciate civilization so much more when you return to it.

    9. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes. And I didn't seen any raw sewage floating in any bodies of water there, either.

      In Nevada, the raw sewage walks upright.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. And I didn't seen any raw sewage floating in any bodies of water there, either.

      In Nevada, the raw sewage walks upright.

      The question is, are you man enough to insult someone in person ?

      We both know the answer is no.

      And that says all that needs to be said regarding you.

    11. Re: India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why you must be from Nevada! What's your address so I can call you a piece of human shit to your face? Or would you prefer to do it in a neutral location? See you soon, Mr internet tough guy.

    12. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me too! I want to go there and call you a piece of shit to your face. A billion Indians would also like to talk to you about your bigotry and cowardice. Lets see you go over there and say what you did, shitlord.

    13. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Yes. And I didn't seen any raw sewage floating in any bodies of water there, either.

      In Nevada, the raw sewage walks upright.

      Then runs for public office. And wins.

      --
      ~X~
    14. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      And had he been born in Europe, he would have lived twice as long. Great example of shithole-level sanitary conditions in large parts of India.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    15. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      you will probably be able to leap tall buildings and shoot webs with your fingertips

      However, that's quite useless in a country with few tall buildings, especially in rural areas (and maybe even with lots of pre-existing spider webs?).

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      no, if you are born in india you stand a good chance of catching a deadly disease and your putrifying corpse floating gently down the Ganges river while people bathe in, defecate in, and drink from said river.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    17. Re:India = a bad place for vacations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're off the deep end, mate. Do yourself a favour and commit yourself to the nearest asylum.

  5. Scientists and doctors.. by ckatko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...have been warning us for decades and nobody cared to listen.

    Enjoy your new wave of death, humanity.

    1. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that. Scientists have been doing the basic research for new antibiotics for years. Last I heard 10 candidates for new families of antibiotics had the basic research done. From those you could likely get 4 families that would pass all the tests and be safe for people to use.

      The problem is that drug companies don't make a lot of money from antibiotics, so none of them are willing to put any resources into developing new ones.

      One good thing about Trump, he's far more likely to decide big pharma needs to be beaten with a stick and forced to make new antibiotics than anyone else. Of course I've heard that big pharma gave lots of money to Trump, so he probably won't do anything.

      Then again, Trump is just as likely to deny they gave him any support and hit them with a stick as he is to acknowledge their support and help them, regardless of how much they supported him.

    2. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doctors? Please. They hand them out like candy. A lot of people out there demand them and waaaassyyyyyy too many docs just hand them out to appease their patients - regardless if they are needed.

      Then those people see my wife and can't comprehend that what they have is viral and an antibiotic won't do anything, it'll cost them at least their co-pay and they add to the superbug problem.

      I have a family me,bet who thinks she knows more than she does and she calls the doc saying she's sick and needs an antibiotic. Her doc prescribes her 5 days worth and says come in the morning.

      The docs ARE part of the problem!

    3. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Only 7 billion (and counting) more to go.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think Trump will help anyone but himself, you are an idiot.

    5. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One good thing about Trump, he's far more likely to decide big pharma needs to be beaten with a stick and forced to make new antibiotics

      Trump is of the opinion that vaccines are involved with autism. I don't think he's going to be doing too much to "big pharma".

      Which is odd since he is a known germaphobe. One would think he of all people would be interested in both vaccines and new antibiotics.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    6. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't be so cynical. He'll do lots to help his kids, and friends, especially one friend if he knows what's good for him
      -V.P.

    7. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by johanw · · Score: 1

      You can also drop the ideological dogma that all product research and development has to be done by private companies. Just set up a public company for this kind of research, and the best option would be to revoke any patents granted on medicaal research not used in actual products if that is standing in the way.

    8. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by markdavis · · Score: 2

      >"...have been warning us for decades and nobody cared to listen."

      Actually, lots and lots and lots of people listened and acted. But it was not enough and too late. For many years, good physicians have been restricting antibiotic use and there has been a huge educational push telling people they MUST take all their antibiotics, exactly as prescribed. And healthcare facilities have been using all kinds of new techniques to hold down infections and transmission- silver, UV light sterilizers, better cleaning techniques, ozone generators, along with screaming about universal precautions and other education.

      One of the main problems has been the lack of development of new antibiotics. We rested on our laurels for too many years while the bacteria have not (and evolved). This is a problem that won't just go away, we have to continuously develop new medications.... but until it is profitable, drug companies aren't interested. They would rather pour their money in high-dollar-return crap like Viagra.

    9. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      Until we make use of anti-biotics in agriculture an international crime only inherently expensive to produce anti-biotics will last long.

      Factory agriculture will run anything cheap into the ground very quickly.

    10. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by cfalcon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Trump's has spoken up in favor of "spreading out" vaccinations. He hasn't spoken against vaccines in general. Last I checked, there wasn't any data showing that "spreading out" vaccinations either helped or hurt a damned thing. I will point this out- every Republican candidate that was asked about the issue last year basically said the same thing as Trump- so whatever his opinion is, it must play super well with Republicans, and also be considered politically safe (and medically safe, probably) by mainstream candidates like Rubio.

      The anti-vax crowd does love Trump, however, and they clearly think he will make some vaccine related statement at some point. Assuming he doesn't, some fraction of that will stick with Trump over their antivax, and some others will stick with their antivax over Trump. The most likely result of Trump's presidency, regarding vaccines, is that there's slightly fewer antivaxxers in a few years, compared to today.

    11. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      To be fair, the cheapest test for whether something is viral seems to be to try some antibiotics and see if they do anything. We need better diagnostic tools, with a faster turnaround, if we want to avoid the problem of over-prescribing antibiotics.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    12. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the cheapest test for whether something is viral is telling patients to never go to a doctor until after they've been sick for 10-14 days.

    13. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by MightyMartian · · Score: 0

      All I'm seeing right now is Congress is going to start moving to claw back the Presidency's legislatively enabled executive powers. There's already some movement to strip the Executive of creating tariffs https://www.markettamer.com/bl... so I imagine one legacy of Trump may be a much weaker presidency for years to come.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    14. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      No, the cheapest test for whether something is viral is telling patients to never go to a doctor until after they've been sick for 10-14 days.

      Are you nucking futs, Anonymous coward? I'm currently on penicillin treating strep throat. I went to the doc after 2 days with a sore throat. Pus on my tonsils was a bit of a giveaway. If I'd waited 14 days the infection would be in my ears and I'd be battling rheumatic fever...

    15. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by Duckman5 · · Score: 2

      Strep throat, when it presents normally, is a dead giveaway and is easily tested for with a quick swab.
      The advice that the Anonymous Coward was giving was for upper respiratory infections. In that case, viral infections are generally self limiting and will go away within 10-14 days. If it takes longer than that, you likely have a bacterial infection and it's reasonable for your doctor to treat it with empiric antibiotics. The only exception is if you suspect the flu (body aches, etc) in which case it can be tested for, quickly, with a swab and you get Tamiflu.

    16. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by slashrio · · Score: 0

      ...there was nothing in our medicine cabinet to treat this lady...

      Then maybe they should have looked outside their medicine cabinet?
      There is high dose vitamin c. [Dr. Frederik Klenner]
      There is nano silver.
      There is allicine (from garlic).
      There may be much more.

      --
      "Trump!!", the new Godwin.
    17. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Try freaking farmers and greedy shareholder based companies who own them!

      They want bigger and better returns each year for their investments which means feed all animals with antibiotic laden feed. When you eat chicken or beef you consume these and create these superbugs.

    18. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by ranton · · Score: 1

      and is easily tested for with a quick swab. [...] it can be tested for, quickly, with a swab

      Who is doing this swabbing if you don't go to the hospital for 10-14 days?

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    19. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you, of course. You do have th experience putting large n1gger dick down your throat.

    20. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by Bowling+Moses · · Score: 5, Informative

      When did you check and how did you check? It took me seconds to find a recent article from Scientific American entitled "Delaying Vaccines Increases Risks--with No Added Benefits."

      I want people to get vaccinated based off the CDC's recommended timing because their schedule is based on science (epidemiology, virology, immunology, bacteriology, etc.) and not the evidence-free opinion of some random person who has zero training in any relevant field.

    21. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Not go to a doctor for 10-14 days? If you've got meningitis or any of dozens of other diseases, you'll be dead before you call the doctor.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    22. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Pfizer scientists Andrew Bell, David Brown, and Nicholas Terrett originally discovered sildenafil (Viagra) as a treatment for various cardiovascular disorders. -- wikipedia

      So, markdavis, nice job of malicious ignorance. Viagra was developed to improve heart health, and you object because it's a cash cow that makes possible more pharmaceutical research.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    23. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by cfalcon · · Score: 2

      The seizures caused as a result of the vaccine- which appear to be the entire reason for that article- are listed as "These seizures do not cause any long-term health effects." The remainder of the article guesses (a pretty reasonable guess, but still a guess) that more cases of diseases will affect some children because they simply won't have their immunity yet, because they won't have received the vaccine. That article is not a compelling reason to avoid delaying vaccines (nor is it a compelling argument to delay vaccines). Additionally, that article is not very persuasive- an antivaxxer will read that article and say "well how about I skip the vaccine and reduce the odds of vaccine-induced seizures, not from 1 in 1500 to 1 in 3000, but to 0?".

      > I want people to get vaccinated based off the CDC's recommended timing

      And not based on their own personal choice?

      I think most of the antivaxxer plague has come from two twinned issues: the general avoidance of discussion of vaccine risk and reward (which in turn spawns a literally endless web of conspiracy theories), and "trolley problem", where getting a vaccine is seen as an action that damages the recipient (and can kill them) some tiny fraction of the time, an an INaction where not getting a vaccine results in a much larger set of damage and death. The problem is that it is phrased as action/inaction, and many parents will suspect or avoid vaccines based on the horror of an action they took harming their child, versus an inaction they took harming their child, with action/inaction being handled totally differently (and not as rationally) as action/action in all of our minds.

      Anyway, I'm getting off topic- your article doesn't bring up anything regarding differing outcomes for delayed versus non-delayed, and it's reasonable to assume that most Republican voters like the idea of the delayed schedule (and/or are neutral on the issue)- hence all the candidates basically holding identical positions on the issue. I'll also point out that turning the discussion to "should the vaccines be later or on schedule" at least gets children vaccinated at a higher rate, which is something that is not discussed in the article (except to assume that some of the delayers will miss it- it totally ignores whatever fraction of parents would bail on vaccines completely if offered only as a batch that they suspect is harmful).

    24. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Been there, done that. Younger, no health insurance. Didn't want to waste money by going to the doctor. Had no idea strep could progress to infect your ears, sinuses, and anything else up in your head. Woke up one night, couldn't breathe anymore.
      I don't fuck with infections anymore

    25. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      I'm told rhino horn is highly effective as well. BRB, gotta make myself some colloidal silver. I've learned that medical literature claiming it is a weak-at-best antibiotic is just trying to keep me paying for expensive designer antibiotics. It's actually super strong. That's why less people died from infections back in the day vs. today. Thanks for cluing me into garlic. I'll help convince the CDC that these things work for aggressive bacterial infections. Stupid libtards and their regulated drugs.

    26. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by aXis100 · · Score: 1

      And not based on their own personal choice?

      No, because most people are grossly uninformed, and unable to grasp statistical risks. If their actions only affected themselves it would be fine, but an unvaccinated population endangers others.

      Seriously, why do we have such an issue following the advice of peer reviewed experts these days?

    27. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >"So, markdavis, nice job of malicious ignorance. Viagra was developed to improve heart health, and you object because it's a cash cow that makes possible more pharmaceutical research"

      So, ChrisMaple, nice job of malicious replies. How many dollars went into all ED drug research, validation, studies, etc, regardless of the origin? My point is perfectly valid- tons and tons of money is spent on drugs that have high marketability. Antibiotics are way low on the totem pole.

    28. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by Bowling+Moses · · Score: 1

      You originally stated "Last I checked, there wasn't any data showing that "spreading out" vaccinations either helped or hurt a damned thing." It took me mere seconds to find an article that unambiguously states that yes, the schedule matters, and parents delaying vaccinations in a misguided attempt to reduce risk to their child are achieving the exact opposite outcome. Further the only way you could describe as a "guess" that increasing the length of time a child is not vaccinated will increase their risk of disease is if you don't believe that vaccines are effective. As for the degree of parental control over vaccination I agree with the American Medical Association: nonmedical exemptions to immunization mandates should be barred.

    29. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      > parents delaying vaccinations in a misguided attempt to reduce risk to their child are achieving the exact opposite outcome

      Not really, no. First, as I pointed out, the article itself disagrees with its own headline, by saying that the long term results of delayed and prompt are the same. Second, if that's the only issue, I'm sure some pro-delay person would just do the MMR first or whatever.

      > Further the only way you could describe as a "guess" that increasing the length of time a child is not vaccinated will increase their risk of disease is if you don't believe that vaccines are effective.

      Absolutely incorrect. A small delay would obviously increase the window during which an unvaccinated child could be exposed to the disease, but if that window takes place during a part of the child's life where he's very unlikely to be exposed in any event (baby versus child, etc), then the effect could easily not show up in the statistics. The fact that the delayed and un-delayed cases end up with the same average effects proves this- if the delay window was when all the viruses showed up, you'd expect to see that in the data. You don't.

      > nonmedical exemptions to immunization mandates should be barred

      Presumably you mean as the AMA says it: with this standing as a gate to enter public schooling. This is a reasonably contentious issue: the antivax group is still small, and will probably stay that way. Blocking access to schools is taking a very strong stance on it, one which will strongly motivate the opposite team. Note also that this sort of thing always seems to be 100%: a state either allows philosophical exemptions, or they do not. Middle ground solutions, such as having some small percent of schools that allow philosophical exemptions, never even enter the debate. Meanwhile, since much of the antivax stuff is fueled by raw fear, your go-to solution involves mandating stuff (and you probably approve of public service messages that portray those who don't vaccinate as stupid, backwards, or malicious, instead of ignorant, unpersuaded, and scared).

      Believe as you like. But remember policy like this can very much end up with headlines like "President Alex Jones".

    30. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      > No, because most people are grossly uninformed, and unable to grasp statistical risks.

      I know that the statistical risk of letting government set policy without regard to personal choice is pretty significant, even if I agree with their desired goals.

    31. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In addition to being deliberately obtuse about the link more than once you have conceded a point but continued to argue it anyway.

    32. Re:Scientists and doctors.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Offcourse not based on personal choice.

      Some vaccines require multiple innoculations and timing is important.

    33. Re: Scientists and doctors.. by Duckman5 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if you're trolling, but on the off chance that you're not, the person doing the swab is your doctor/PA/Nurse/Pharmacist/InsertMedicalProfessional when you realize that your symptoms don't line up with "normal upper respiratory infection" as in you have PAIN IN YOUR THROAT (and inflamed tonsils and/or spots on the back of the roof of your mouth and/or nausea) that indicates strep throat or terrible body aches (that differentiate a cold from the flu).
      The point is simple:
      If you have normal upper respiratory infection symptoms (runny nose, stuffy nose, cough, etc) and nothing else,stay home for at least a week and preferably 10 -14 days and just treat it with with over the counter symptom relief

  6. oops by Stormbringer · · Score: 2

    > a highly resistant form of CRE typically found outside the United States

    You mean, WAS typically found outside the USA. How many people did she pass this on to before she took to her bed?

    1. Re:oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the people she came into contact with who where not either elderly or very young will probably shake it off assuming they have a normal immune response.

      One of the hazards of getting old, something that would have put your younger self down for a week will flat out put you in the ground.

    2. Re:oops by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Probably no one. With a few notable exceptions (bacterial meningitis, TB) most bacterial infections aren't very contagious. You mainly pick them up if you're exposed to a large source of them in the environment (drinking or swimming in contaminated water, poorly cleaned kitchens, cuts, that kind of thing) or if you have an already weakened immune system.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    3. Re:oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > a highly resistant form of CRE typically found outside the United States

      You mean, WAS typically found outside the USA.

      Look up the meaning of "typically"

    4. Re:oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      likely a dozen people. prostitution is a big thing in the usa. they like to think they are ahead of the rest of the world but they are in fact still 3rd world.

    5. Re:oops by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      You mean, WAS typically found outside the USA.

      Well, we just need to build a special wall, you see, around America, that will magically keep out the Indian Superbugs.

      And we'll make the Indians pay for it! I mean, the Indians have tons of money, that they make with all those casinos in America!

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    6. Re: oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? Are you suggesting this 70+ year old woman was likely involved in prostitution?

    7. Re: oops by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      He's trolling, you fail at ignoring.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    8. Re:oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many people did she pass this on to before she took to her bed?

      Thankfully we don't really have all that many people who steal and drink someones blood.

      And for the small number of people who do steal and drink other peoples blood, I find myself not all that upset that they get an infection from it and die :P
      Same goes for anyone that ate her uncooked flesh.

      You can't really get it from her in any other way.

    9. Re:oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which would be encouraging, if there weren't also many bacteria already existing on your skin or living in the soil which are also becoming strongly resistant to antibiotics.

    10. Re:oops by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      Probably no one. With a few notable exceptions (bacterial meningitis, TB) most bacterial infections aren't very contagious. You mainly pick them up if you're exposed to a large source of them in the environment (drinking or swimming in contaminated water, poorly cleaned kitchens, cuts, that kind of thing) or if you have an already weakened immune system.

      Person to person, yeah, not much risk.
      But patient to nurse/doctor's hands/gloves/clothes, to the next patient, is a problem.

      https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/16/cre-superbug/
      http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/superbug-appears-spreading-stealthily-u-s-hospitals-study-finds/

      I was trying to find a documentary I watched about this, but couldn't. It was a big, very prominent cutting edge hospital. Like a Mayo clinic or something. And they had a superbug spreading around the hospital, and it took them a surprisingly long time to figure out how to contain. And in the end, I don't think they every really knew why it stopped or started spreading. Many people died.

  7. Look to history by namgge · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Time to start remembering how infection was controlled in the 30s and 40s before antibiotics came along. People from that generation were really keen on (a) quarantining, (b) keeping hospitals spotless and (c) cleaning even the smallest wound with iodine in alcohol. I still recall the stinging pain.

    1. Re:Look to history by sjames · · Score: 1

      There's a lot to that. Many infections acquired in hospitals are traceable to unwashed hands, unsanitized surfaces and (of all things), doctors' ties dragging over everything.

      Lose the ties, break out the bleach and Lysol, and consider cold plasma hand cleaning stations.

    2. Re:Look to history by Zocalo · · Score: 1

      (b) and (c) are part of the problem, although many places are still failing badly on their attempts at (b) which isn't helping either. Survival of the fittest also applies to bacteria and viruses, so as our countermeasures have become progressively more potent they have collectively evolved to be more resilient, and since their lifecycles are much faster than our product development cycles it's a race that we were never going to win.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    3. Re:Look to history by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Informative

      You apparently don't realize that hospital acquired infections are at the lowest point ever. We've lopped off all of the low hanging fruit and are now cruising into the noise. Still useful work to be done, but you have a pretty weird and completely unsupported notion of Ye Olden Tymes.

      Nobody has forgotten quarantine - we call it 'isolation' because it's easier to spell. Hospitals are kept quite clean and iodine is a shitty topical antiseptic (alcohol is fine).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:Look to history by namgge · · Score: 1

      "Each year in the United States, at least 2 million people become infected with bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics and at least 23,000 people die each year as a direct result of these infections." https://www.cdc.gov/drugresist... "Antibiotic-resistant infections can happen anywhere. Data show that most happen in the general community; however, most deaths related to antibiotic resistance happen in inpatient healthcare settings, such as hospitals and nursing homes" https://www.cdc.gov/drugresist...

    5. Re:Look to history by markdavis · · Score: 2

      >"Antibiotic-resistant infections can happen anywhere. Data show that most happen in the general community; however, most deaths related to antibiotic resistance happen in inpatient healthcare settings, such as hospitals and nursing homes"

      And that is mostly because the people in healthcare settings are already sick and have compromised or weakened immune systems.

    6. Re:Look to history by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      There are limits to how much energy they can expend on resistance and still hang around in the environment.

      They can't afford to be extremophiles just on the odd chance of infecting a human.

    7. Re:Look to history by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      "Each year in the United States, at least 2 million people become infected with bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics and at least 23,000 people die each year as a direct result of these infections."

      Well, that sucks. Now, how do those numbers compare to historical measurements, accounting for the significant improvement in reporting reliability? The reality is that infectious disease rates were about three to five times worse in the 30s and 40s, because we were still at the beginning of a large-scale improvement process in general sanitation throughout daily life, not just hospitals.

      "Antibiotic-resistant infections can happen anywhere. Data show that most happen in the general community; however, most deaths related to antibiotic resistance happen in inpatient healthcare settings, such as hospitals and nursing homes"

      Let's say that again, simplified: "most deaths occur in care facilities". That's a great talking point, but what about where most fatal infections were acquired? If you get infected with a resistant bacteria in your kitchen, and go to the hospital for it before dying, it still counts as a hospital death.

      Lusting for the good old days is a very dangerous habit. You have to remember that you are only able to recall the stinging pain because you were one of the survivors. The people whose lethal infections weren't cleaned by iodine can't speak up to remind you of their story, except as historical statistics.

      The problem is also far more complicated than just "clean things". Over-use of antibiotics contributes to the prevalence of AR strains, but careful management is actually mostly what protects vulnerable patients. That is hindered by the stupid humans in the mix, who don't trust doctors and undermine their practice (for example, by bringing home-cooked desserts into a hospital isolation room). That in turn is a symptom of poor medical knowledge among the public, partly due to the confirmation bias you've shown here.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    8. Re:Look to history by namgge · · Score: 1

      I see what you did there:

            "infectious diseases" != "antibiotic resistant infections"

    9. Re:Look to history by chill · · Score: 5, Informative

      You, sir or madam, are a lying sack of dangerous shit.

      Quote WebMD:

      "Home Remedy No-No Number 4: Colloidal Silver

      With hype and hope spread by word of mouth and the Internet, colloidal silver is believed by some to help treat a range of infections and diseases.

      "People believe that colloidal silver can treat fungal infections, TB, HIV, herpes, and even cancer by boosting the immune system," says Ted Epperly, MD, president-elect of the American Academy of Family Physicians.

      Unfortunately for colloidal sliver supporters, they're wrong, and the consequences of their mistake could be costly.

      "One of the most well-known side effects of colloidal silver is that it turns a person's skin a greyish shade of blue," says Epperly.

      The skin isn't the only organ affected by colloidal silver; so are the kidneys, stomach, and brain, as well as the nervous system. Silver is actually deposited into the cells of these organs, possibly causing cell damage and death, leading to organ failure.

      "The effects of colloidal silver are toxic and cumulative," says Epperly. "Worse, they're irreversible."

      Epperly urges people to ignore the hype and instead, talk to a health care provider about the proper way to treat infections and diseases.

      http://www.webmd.com/women/features/5-home-remedy-no-nos#3

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    10. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *quickly buys stock in bowtie company*

    11. Re:Look to history by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

      Time to break out the bacteriophages. Fighting infections with tiny space landing craft.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    12. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandparents and parents kept iodine, iso-propyl alcohol and hydrogen peroxide for this reason. I remember the stinging pain as well and that was in the 70's and 80's. I still keep the same things plus bleach in stock at home to this day.

    13. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      iodine is a shitty topical antiseptic (alcohol is fine).

      Really? Huh. I'll have to remember that the next time I scrub in with an iodine sponge. I'll let my colleagues know that they don't need to scrub the incision area with an iodine solution, 'cause it doesn't work. And when I get an exposure I'll not bother with the iodine scrub even though it is mandated by my oversight board.

      Seriously, iodine is a "shitty" topical antiseptic? Where do these people come from?

      Iodine is one of those super antiseptics that, when used properly, kills essentially everything, and quickly. Moreover, since it appears to attack structural elements of the cell, it has a radically different pathway to antimicrobial action than standard drugs, and one that is unlikely to engender resistance. It is not perfect, and perhaps that's what the parent poster is referring to (don't use it on really large wounds because it does get absorbed by the body, and your kidneys will not be happy; you might get a rash; etc.) but it has a far lower rate of allergic reaction than the standard alternative of chlorhexidine. It's also super cheap, and tends to sting heaps less than alcohol in an open wound.

    14. Re:Look to history by Nemyst · · Score: 4, Informative

      It only takes a cursory search to find this NIH page advising that colloidal silver is toxic and that no health benefits have been confirmed by studies. You're encouraging people to take something that's universally seen as dangerous on the basis of completely unfounded claims of healing effects.

    15. Re:Look to history by cstdenis · · Score: 1

      Why is iodine used for those things ("scrub the incision area", etc) instead of alcohol?

      Not disagreeing with anything you said, just curious why iodine is chosen over alcohol which I am under the impression will also kill pretty much everything.

      --
      1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
    16. Re: Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the other sources is patients themselves, on their skin, especially older patients that have undergone previous courses of antibiotics. In the Netherlands it is now common to screen people scheduled for elective surgery for resistant bacteria, and then to use topical treatments for a couple of weeks beforehand. This seems to be getting good results and I had heard it was being trialled in some parts of the UK.

    17. Re:Look to history by swell · · Score: 0

      Good point.

      And if you look at the original comment referring to corporate profits, you might consider that any product or substance that competes with a patented product is frowned upon. Corporations fought against vitamin and other natural nutritional supplements for decades to protect their drug profits - and what was their primary weapon: Government, bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists.

      Be wary of anything the NIH or FDA promotes, such as the 'food pyramid' etc. (I confess NIH supports some valuable research, but even that taxpayer sponsored research will be turned into corporate profits in the end.)

      --
      ...omphaloskepsis often...
    18. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time to start remembering how infection was controlled in the 30s and 40s before antibiotics came along. People from that generation were really keen on (a) quarantining, (b) keeping hospitals spotless and (c) cleaning even the smallest wound with iodine in alcohol. I still recall the stinging pain.

      You must be conflating memories. Iodine does not sting at all. Go buy a bottle of Betadine and try for yourself.

      Oh wait, I get it now. You're a troll and I took the bait. Hats off to you.

    19. Re:Look to history by clovis · · Score: 3, Informative

      The webMD page you quoted is here:
      http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-...

      You are being disingenuous because the sentence you quoted is part of a paragraph that advices AGAINST the uses and says that it is NOT EFECTIVE.

      Here's the rest of it.

      Colloidal silver is a mineral. Despite promoters’ claims, silver has no known function in the body and is not an essential mineral supplement. Colloidal silver products were once available as over-the-counter drug products, but in 1999, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) ruled that these colloidal silver products were not considered safe or effective. Colloidal silver products marketed for medical purposes or promoted for unproven uses are now considered “misbranded” under the law without appropriate FDA approval as a new drug. There are currently no FDA-approved over-the-counter or prescription drugs containing silver that are taken by mouth. However, there are still colloidal silver products being sold as homeopathic remedies and dietary supplements.

        There are many Internet ads for the parts of a generator that produces colloidal silver at home. People who produce colloidal silver at home will likely not be able to evaluate their product for purity or strength. There are many products that are far safer and more effective than colloidal silver.

        Despite these concerns about safety and effectiveness, people still buy colloidal silver as a dietary supplement and use it for a wide range of ailments. Colloidal silver is used to treat infections due to yeast; bacteria (tuberculosis, Lyme disease, bubonic plague, pneumonia, leprosy, gonorrhea, syphilis, scarlet fever, stomach ulcers, cholera); parasites (ringworm, malaria); and viruses (HIV/AIDS, pneumonia, herpes, shingles, warts).

      I have to agree with the previous posters assertion that "You, sir or madam, are a lying sack of dangerous shit."

    20. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It only takes a cursory search to find this NIH page advising that colloidal silver is toxic and that no health benefits have been confirmed by studies. You're encouraging people to take something that's universally seen as dangerous on the basis of completely unfounded claims of healing effects.

      Stop this nonsense. The stuff is not dangerous and if universally means "you" and said agencies, then you don't understand the meaning of the word. We use this stuff in the field (military) all the time and it has proven to be more durable in tough environments than antibiotics and faster acting. Get out and do some real research and you will find this stuff in use by governments around the world and even in hospital settings. Stop spreading misinformation the NIH is not the end of the line for "information".

      Used by the military? What uses are you talking about? Are you in the military, or are you repeating something you read on the Internet?
      I've heard that it serves as a topical antibiotic for wounds and in wound dressings, but that is about it.

      The above poster claims that silver is used to cure these things:
      yeast; bacteria (tuberculosis, Lyme disease, bubonic plague, pneumonia, leprosy, gonorrhea, syphilis, scarlet fever, stomach ulcers, cholera); parasites (ringworm, malaria); and viruses (HIV/AIDS, pneumonia, herpes, shingles, warts).
      If you think that the military is using silver to cure the things mentioned in the above post, then you're an imbecile.

    21. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once heard that silver poisoning is where the term "blue blood" actually comes from, as nobles had access to silverware.

    22. Re:Look to history by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      That's intentional, even necessary. There is no data on antibiotic-resistant infections prior to the discovery of antibiotic-resistant infections. Since my whole point is that historical data is absolutely critical when making comparisons to historical practices, that's the best data we have available.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    23. Re:Look to history by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Hilariously, Russians were good at these tiny space landing crafts as well.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    24. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silver poisoning is probably similar to cooper poisoning? (without the smurf skin?)

    25. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time to start remembering how infection was controlled in the 30s and 40s before antibiotics came along. People from that generation were really keen on (a) quarantining, (b) keeping hospitals spotless and (c) cleaning even the smallest wound with iodine in alcohol. I still recall the stinging pain.

      I was born in 80s and I have same procedure burned into my head. I personally use industrial isopropyl alcohol to clean wounds, electronics and "optics". Just kidding, don't drink that stuff even though it is safer than Russian vodka :)

    26. Re:Look to history by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      When resistance can be a simple reconfiguration of a protein on their cell membrane that was already otherwise not-required for their basic life functions, it costs them nothing at all to be resistant.

      One shouldn't look at it as a problem if them having to actively defend against antibiotics, the burden of hurting them is entirely on the ability of the antibiotics to target them. Change happens naturally over time for any species, we're simply applying selective pressure for change that erases the bullseye(s) that antibiotics aim at.

    27. Re:Look to history by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1
      No, it's not a good point, because

      We use this stuff in the field (military) all the time and it has proven to be more durable in tough environments than antibiotics and faster acting.

      is a lie. What does it say for your point when you blindly agree with any point in its favor, real or invented?

    28. Re:Look to history by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      I gave a direct quote from WebMD. Don't like it- too bad.

      You gave an out-of-context quote from WebMD, which makes you a misleading (lying) sack of shit.

      "Rhino horn is used to increase sexual virility" is also a 100% true statement, along with the other part of the sentence that says, ", though there is no scientific evidence that it is effective in this capacity". When you quote the first half without the second, it makes you a piece of shit.

    29. Re:Look to history by zwarte+piet · · Score: 1

      Bowties are cool. (and kilts)

    30. Re:Look to history by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      If you want to understand the difference between Americans and Russians, compare GPS with GLONASS.

      With GPS, each satellite transmits the ephemeris data for all satellites. That way, each receiver can track the satellites, so they know exactly where they are at any time, and also which part of the elliptical orbit they're in, so that they can correct for the fact that satellite is travelling faster at aphelion than perihelion, which affects the atomic clock speed due to relativistic effects.

      With GLONASS, each satellite broadcasts X, Y, Z, X', Y', and Z'. That's pretty much it.

      The difference between Americans and Russians is that Americans know how to build powerful consumer electronics which can do complex calculations, and Russians know how to inject a satellite into an almost perfectly circular orbit.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    31. Re:Look to history by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      That sounds rather anecdotal, seeing as both constellations are limited by pretty much the same laws of physics (plus the realities of our Solar system such as perturbations).

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    32. Re:Look to history by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      "One of the most well-known side effects of colloidal silver is that it turns a person's skin a greyish shade of blue," says Epperly.

      So this will only work in Kentucky then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    33. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (not the OP) I believe alcohol also attacks healthy tissue and can cause more scarring. Also, it stings as hell, whereas the antiseptic used in hospitals is povidone-iodine (Betadine), not plain ol' iodine, and that one does not sting at all.

    34. Re:Look to history by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      They don't have to be perfectly perfect. They just have to be good enough over their working lifespan (which IIRC is less than 8 years).

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    35. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks.

    36. Re:Look to history by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um. iodine is painless physically. its a pain because its messy and stain.

  8. Will this be unique to India? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Love the India bashing here. But can anyone say that it's a phenomenon thats unique to india? High population with lack of rules and regulations is what gets things like these going. Just something to keep in mind as we also practice the 'get govt out of my life' mentality while our own population increases.

    1. Re:Will this be unique to India? by sjames · · Score: 2

      The U.S's continuing failure to provide affordable healthcare to a growing portion of it's population will turn our cities into breeding grounds for all manner of new and exciting infectious bacteria.

    2. Re:Will this be unique to India? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I'll happily bash the current government with little provocation, but - practices such as drilling proper sanitation procedures into doctors' heads (wear disposable gloves, wash hands between patients) and repeatedly telling patients to take ALL of their antibiotics, even if they already feel better, have very little to do with government rules and regulations.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:Will this be unique to India? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Love the India bashing here. But can anyone say that it's a phenomenon thats unique to india?

      No one HAS said it is unique to India.

      The point is, the overwhelming probability is that the woman contracted the infection in India.

      And there is plenty of evidence to support that India offers opportunities for contact with nasty pathogens.

      You're an idiot who tries to argue points that are not even germane to the discussion. Shut the fuck up.

    4. Re:Will this be unique to India? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      This sounds like great idea for a new reality TV show. Needs a catchy name and some attractive-but-down-on-their-luck actors.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Will this be unique to India? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the catchy name: Don't touch that, its infected!

    6. Re:Will this be unique to India? by slew · · Score: 1

      The U.S's continuing failure to provide affordable healthcare to a growing portion of it's population will turn our cities into breeding grounds for all manner of new and exciting infectious bacteria.

      If "affordable" healthcare includes distributing antibiotics like tic-tacs to people whenever they whine about an infection, maybe we are avoiding the creation of new and exciting infectious bacteria by continuing to fail to provide access to anti-biotics...

      Just food for thought...

      OF course there are other aspects of failure to provide care to the population that causes serious health problems and increased mortality rates and we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bath water, but anti-biotic overuse is a serious problem that won't get fixed simply by providing more people access to the same flawed medicine that we seem to be practicing today.

    7. Re:Will this be unique to India? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Is there anything that can cure an outbreak of apostropheum excessiva?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:Will this be unique to India? by sjames · · Score: 1

      As I understand it, it is mostly symptom less. Those who are bothered are generally advised to take chill pills as needed.

    9. Re:Will this be unique to India? by sjames · · Score: 1

      I didn't say incompetent health care, I said affordable. For example, when people really do need a course of antibiotics, they should be able to afford the full course to make sure the bugs are dead. They certainly should not save half so the next time they don't have to scrape up money for a doctor and crazy expensive prescription. They certainly shouldn't have to tough it out and spread the infection while they pray that their immune system will eventually win.

    10. Re:Will this be unique to India? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Hill

    11. Re:Will this be unique to India? by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      The U.S's continuing failure to provide affordable healthcare to a growing portion of it's population will turn our cities into breeding grounds for all manner of new and exciting infectious bacteria.

      If "affordable" healthcare includes distributing antibiotics like tic-tacs to people whenever they whine about an infection, maybe we are avoiding the creation of new and exciting infectious bacteria by continuing to fail to provide access to anti-biotics...

      It doesn't. It means access to the same health care providers that those insured through their workplace get.

      And in any case, save your ACA-bashing for a week or two, which is when the widespread FUD attacks like yours will really come pouring out.

    12. Re:Will this be unique to India? by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      advised to take chill pills as needed

      Surely chill pills are subject to the war on drugs? (And the Mexicans are already paying for them).

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    13. Re: Will this be unique to India? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not bashing the ACA, but the pill popping medical culture that preceded the ACA. The ACA basically threw fuel (tax money) on that fire instead of fixing it to be more affordable.

    14. Re:Will this be unique to India? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      The U.S's continuing failure to provide affordable healthcare... blah blah blah

      The U.S's continuing failure to provide affordable space flight

      The U.S's continuing failure to provide affordable ponies and unicorns

      Everything comes from human effort. If you're demanding that such things be produced, you're no better than any other slave owner.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    15. Re:Will this be unique to India? by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      If "affordable" healthcare includes distributing antibiotics like tic-tacs to people whenever they whine about an infection, maybe we are avoiding the creation of new and exciting infectious bacteria by continuing to fail to provide access to anti-biotics...

      Spoken like someone who has ever been on state-run medicaid. I assure you, they won't give you antibiotics until they're 5 minutes from intubating you, and I am *not* arguing for the awesomeness of that way of thinking.

      Simply said, one does not coerce their medicaid doctor into giving them medications they shouldn't be given for fear of losing their money. One very easily talks their private-care doctor into giving them *just about any fucking thing they want*. You'll find this is a large factor in the US fear of abolishing private run healthcare.

    16. Re:Will this be unique to India? by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'm just demanding that the fruits actually go to those who have labored.

    17. Re: Will this be unique to India? by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      Not bashing the ACA, but the pill popping medical culture that preceded the ACA. The ACA basically threw fuel (tax money) on that fire instead of fixing it to be more affordable.

      A single-payer system, the solution to the problem you note, would have never made it through congress, unfortunately.

    18. Re: Will this be unique to India? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While every other advanced nation is riding their $5 space pony to Mars.

  9. One of few things government should be funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately antibiotics is an area of research that is terribly underfunded given how important it is to modern medicine. Unlike other medications it's not profitable enough for the pharmaceutical industry to invest in it.

    I wish the government would get rid of the police state, most of the military, public schools, and various other social welfare programs including social security and start focusing just a tad bit of money in health care that is critically important, but won't get funded by private industry given it is unprofitable.

    This might be unpopular among those of us who want an end to government [basically], but the reality is it's such an insignificant cost relative to everything else the government spends money on. The roads and funding basic research for unprofitable research that has a major impact on our health such as this are one of the few things government should be spending stolen money on.

    1. Re:One of few things government should be funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The viewpoint of ending government is extremely popular among those who have never experienced life without government. Power fills vacuums, it always has and it always will. If you don't appreciate what you have in the USA you will soon lose it by your 'small government' experiment.

    2. Re:One of few things government should be funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This might be unpopular among those of us who want an end to government [basically], but the reality is it's such an insignificant cost relative to everything else the government spends money on. The roads and funding basic research for unprofitable research that has a major impact on our health such as this are one of the few things government should be spending stolen money on.

      You don't want an end to government, you just want an end to government that you see helping others instead of only yourself.

    3. Re:One of few things government should be funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ending government doesn't mean ending security. It's why I said [basically]. It doesn't mean there are no laws. The laws need to be limited to those for which there is violence, theft, fraud, or coercion. Unless a law is targeted at those things there should be no law. License plates, drivers licenses, insurance, vehicular registration, possession laws, strict liability laws, and various other types of laws demand something for which non-compliance doesn't directly or indirectly result in violent against another. The only violent party is the government in enforcing such laws. A party may injure someone in the process of, but the possibility alone should not result in the existence of a crime. The argument people use today to justify driver licenses is safety and yet this is not why we have drivers licenses. Until 1960 there were still states that had no testing requirements even. So this argument is just wrong. One can go watch the propaganda videos of the 1950s that brought us this excuse- but that isn't the reason we have drivers licenses. It was an issue of controlling the populous.

      The government uses violence and coercion to achieve social and political objectives. When it threatens violence or theft because you don't say pay your taxes. You don't need a police force when you've eliminated the taxes for which are burdening people's incomes and making them dependent on the state. When your income doubles the typical person can afford private security and they can afford to donate to charity. There used to be a tradition in America of donating 10% of ones income up until the government raised taxes to the point people couldn't afford it any more.

      To suggest that we need big government in order to be a first world nation is non-sense. Comparing the US against third worlds is what you do when you argue for socialism over principled libertarianism. If you look at socialist countries they're the ones that tend to do worse. Not the ones which are freer and market based. There is a difference between capitalism and libertarianism. The government should stay out of the way in a libertarian society. In a capitalist society the governments do not actually stay out of the way and frequently promote twisted socialistic policies for self-gain. From copy"right" to obamacare to possession laws. Someone is making money. We need to end these wealth redistribution programs so that people can make the decisions that are right for them rather than turning people into being dependent on government. Government is terribly inefficient and tends to do nothing well.

    4. Re: One of few things government should be funding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right, in places like Sweden, Denmark, Norway everyone lives in abject poverty.

    5. Re:One of few things government should be funding by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      If you want to experience small government, you can always go for a holiday in Somalia. Its cheapness will probably be to your taste. And you can relish genuine piracy without the taint of Tor or anti-gun laws.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  10. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Worst food poisoning I ever had was from a Hard Rock Cafe. By your logic, the US will only be safe when purged of Americans.

  11. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by johanw · · Score: 2

    People in India are mostly hindoes, not Muslims. Most muslims went to Pakistan after the former Brittish India became independent and hostilities broke out between hindos and muslims.

  12. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worst case of food poisoning I ever had was at an Indian restaurant. These guys don't use toilet paper so what do you expect. I support Trump's decision to keep Muslims out of USA... not because of terrorism (we can all agree some Muslims aren't terrorists) but rather on sanitary grounds.

    Just FYI, Indians hate Muslims.

  13. Solution according to appendix: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe everybody, who is treated with antibiotics, should be re-colonized by "normal bacterial flora" = microbes susceptible to antibiotics, after the AB course is completed. That might diminish onset of resistent microbes. Appendix functions as an source of "proper" intestinal microbes perhaps usefull to counter dysmicrobia.

    1. Re:Solution according to appendix: by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      This sounds like a case where the infection may have had a reservoir in the bone, where it would have been hard for any form of treatment to wipe it out completely. Normal bacteria restoration seems like it should be a useful thing, but probably not relevant in this case.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  14. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 2

    Indians are mostly Hindu, not Muslim.

    I'm sure the distinction is lost on most Trump supporters.

  15. Re: Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, yeah? There'd be no more gun tying maniacs there after that.

  16. 26 different antibiotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did they prescribe her all of them? that copay is probably what killed her

    1. Re:26 different antibiotics by hey! · · Score: 1

      The problem is the 26 antibiotics all work the same way. Given that the gene in question encodes an enzyme which blocks that process, you don't have to administer all 26 to know that none of them will work.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  17. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hindus* British*
    History lesson from someone that can't spell 3rd grade terms...?

  18. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Most distinctions are lost on Trump supporters.

    It's how they roll.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  19. Re: Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I misread that as "it's how they troll." Based on many of the comments I've seen here, that seems about right.

  20. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

    History lesson from someone that can't spell 3rd grade terms...?

    His first language is Floridian.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  21. Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals... by mspohr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Industrial meat farmers in the US (and other countries) use literally tons of antibiotics to improve "yields". This leads to resistant strains of bacteria which are passed to humans. Use in chickens and pigs is particularly problematic because of the large amount of antibiotics and the widespread distribution. Most chicken you buy in the store is contaminated with drug resistant bacteria.
    Just say no to antibiotic treated animals.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  22. Re: evolution is a lie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AIDS is a lie

  23. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    FYI, everybody hates everybody else.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  24. here's why by clovis · · Score: 1

    Colistin for your animal feed.
    https://www.alibaba.com/produc...

  25. copper, copper, copper... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    snake!

  26. Re: Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably an Indian kichen worker in that Hard Rock Cafe.

  27. Time to get serious by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reality is that most resistant strains of bacteria originate from antibiotics abuse, and the biggest abusers of antibiotics are third world countries and those who raise livestock. Normal un-resistant bacteria are actually more healthy vital and will grow and displace resistant strains because resistant strains are typically resistant due to the fact that they are missing receptors or features that antibiotics use to kill the bacteria. Those same features allow normal bacteria to be stronger and multiply faster than the resistant strains.

    What the doctors and scientists are only recently realizing is that the way to deal with resistant strains is that we must crack down on antibiotics abuse in these two areas globally, and greatly step up and enforce the use of post-antibiotic use of un-resistant probiotics, replenishing the healthy, easy to kill bacteria in people and farm animals which then come out in their waste/manure/fertilizer or sometimes on the meat/eggs/milk etc. and spread from there.

    I recall reading about a river in India where a pharmaceutical had been illegally dumping waste antibiotics and something like 90% of all bacteria tested in the river were resistant. The solution, after stopping the pollution, should have been to seed the river with a continuous stream of healthy un-resistant bacteria, and over time (maybe a year) the healthy, un-resistant bacteria would supplant the resistant strains 99% of the time, greatly reducing the odds of exposure to a resistant strain. We are just now discovering that regular old soil bacteria have over 40 different methods of killing off resistant bacteria that are completely new to us. We can and will convert some into new antibiotics, but we must learn from the past and minimize the spread of resistant strains of bacteria now by spreading as much as possible the un-resistant strains which will in turn supplant the resistant strains we have fostered around the globe with minimal additional human intervention.

    http://www.the-scientist.com/?...

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    1. Re:Time to get serious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The solution, after stopping the pollution, should have been to seed the river with a continuous stream of healthy un-resistant bacteria,

      Nope. First, the CIO and all shit ass bastards are poured in the river. Then you do whatever you want.

    2. Re:Time to get serious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is all very nice, but completely bypasses a variation of the chicken and the egg problem, which for a complete assessment of the problem, can't be denied or suppressed.

      Let's put this very black and white. We all know what we're talking about. You get sick. Would you 1) want to get the antibiotic and heal or 2) risk to die because you're not allowed to get antibiotics because of your arguments.

      Why did you ignore this part of the problem?

    3. Re:Time to get serious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He left out the "what happens when you get sick" part, because *THAT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER*. In his actual real world example, you have a river filled with resistant bacteria as a result of illegal dumping of antibiotics. These weren't illegally dumped because some guy chose to use an antibiotic when he didn't strictly need to, or something. The whole point is, human overuse of antibiotics plays almost no part in resistant bacteria. Poor handling of antibiotics, massive overuse in livestock- these issues are over 90% of the problem. If eliminated, the problem may entirely disappear right then. Humans, after all, don't trade and swap bacteria in the same manner as literal pigs.

    4. Re:Time to get serious by kvishalk · · Score: 1

      I suspect is it also due to research on chemical warfare and viruses. It is not known in what proportion antibiotic abuse or careless research are responsible. No one will admit leaks anyway.

    5. Re:Time to get serious by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      The likelihood of humans fostering a strain of resistant bacteria through antibiotics use is orders of magnitude lower than that of simply contracting already resistant bacteria from the environment. If we eliminate antibiotics misuse/overuse in farming and as a preventative or feel-good medication, we'll be fixing the vast majority of the problem. Nothing about this implies that you should suddenly stop taking antibiotics when you need them (though you'd have to take the full dose in the manner prescribed so you don't increase the chances of creating resistant bacteria yourself).

    6. Re:Time to get serious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is all very nice, but completely bypasses a variation of the chicken and the egg problem, which for a complete assessment of the problem, can't be denied or suppressed.

      Let's put this very black and white. We all know what we're talking about. You get sick. Would you 1) want to get the antibiotic and heal or 2) risk to die because you're not allowed to get antibiotics because of your arguments.

      Why did you ignore this part of the problem?

      I'll go with Nemyst's answer. However, I'll also say, four out of the past five times I have been offered antibiotics I have not ended up taking them. These were different kinds of infection - an infected nick in a finger (twice); A suspect throat and a nasty cut. I discussed with the doctor and checked how to tell if it was a worsening bacterial infection. I got given the prescription but I never went out and got the medicine. In each case, careful traditional treatment (regular cleaning out / washing / menthol etc) ended up working.

      I think I might have slightly increased my immediate risk of problems on each of those times, however overall I think avoiding antibiotics makes me healthier because they cause a large disturbance to the rest of the body. This is pretty close to the actual advice to doctors if they are going to see the patient regularly. The problem is, normally they see you once and know you won't see another doctor for days, so they have to give the anti-biotics too early.

  28. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Cassini2 · · Score: 2

    Bingo. There is almost no point trying to limit excess human use of antibiotics beyond current efforts, when agriculture is using them wildly. In this case, the disease is resistant to antibiotics that are mainly used for agriculture. So the problem is definitely agricultural antibiotics.

  29. Inaccurate article details... by Dahamma · · Score: 4, Informative

    CDC testing subsequently revealed the germ was New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase -- a highly resistant form of CRE

    It should at least read "revealed the germ CONTAINED New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase". NDM-1 is not a bacteria, it's an enzyme possessed by resistant bacteria that inactivates antibiotics.

    What's really fun is that this gene can potentially be transferred to other types of bacteria laterally...

    1. Re:Inaccurate article details... by K10W · · Score: 1

      CDC testing subsequently revealed the germ was New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase -- a highly resistant form of CRE

      It should at least read "revealed the germ CONTAINED New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase". NDM-1 is not a bacteria, it's an enzyme possessed by resistant bacteria that inactivates antibiotics.

      What's really fun is that this gene can potentially be transferred to other types of bacteria laterally...

      I was about to comment on that until read your comment. It is indeed plasmid mediated gene transfer so can be passed to unrelated diseases. Given the track record of hospitals with not following basic operating proceedures properly I wouldn't be surprised if this does come into contact with other pathogens and we'll have yet another treatment resistant batch of diseases. The rate we're going we'll have treatment proof never mind resistant pathogens soon. Wouldn't be surprised if there was more outbreaks that origniate from within the hospital rather than from the patient prehospitalisation period. People are so lackadaisical with anti contamination proceedures etc, I've see lab workers whos idea of perfect aseptic technique is barely a step above licking your fingers (twice) and wiping them on your labcoat and medical staff including doctors who are even more lazy.

    2. Re:Inaccurate article details... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      CDC testing subsequently revealed the germ was New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase -- a highly resistant form of CRE

      It should at least read "revealed the germ CONTAINED New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase". NDM-1 is not a bacteria, it's an enzyme possessed by resistant bacteria that inactivates antibiotics.

      What's really fun is that this gene can potentially be transferred to other types of bacteria laterally...

      I love the way bacteria, and other organisms can exchange genes laterally. It means evolution doesn't follow a nice straightforward tree structure; its a graph, with cycles, possibly not even directional (ie gene exchanges can go both ways). That makes things a lot more interesting.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    3. Re:Inaccurate article details... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      licking your fingers (twice) and wiping them on your labcoat

      Yes, they should lick the whole hand and underarm (depending on how far it went in) for 3 minutes

    4. Re:Inaccurate article details... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, things are exactly as interesting as they've always been.

  30. Viruses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Lately I've been reading how various doctors are defeating superbugs using viruses taken from the wild to attack antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Considering how the majority of the doctors mentioned were acting independently and unaffiliated with any major institutions, it seems more focus should be put on this approach than merely looking for better drugs.

  31. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by gtall · · Score: 2

    There's approximately 138 million Muslims in India. Yes, most Muslims left for East or West Pakistan at the time. East Pakistan is now Bangladesh.

    So, while yes, most Indians are Hindus, 138 million Muslims is still 10% of the pop. of India.

    Please try to keep up to date.

  32. Just like livestock breeding by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

    When people breed animals, they are artificially selecting for their own desired traits. When they use antibiotics, they are in effect selecting for antibiotic resistant strains.

    You'd think farmers would get the picture as well or better than others.....

  33. Harvard Medical by ArhcAngel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Earlier this year Harvard Medical School posted this video showing a bacteria mutating over the course of 11 days until it is resistant to the anti-bacterial they used. 11 days!

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    1. Re:Harvard Medical by Cyberax · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thankfully, it's not as scary as it seems - resistance evolves easily but it carries heavy metabolic cost for bacteria. So resistant bacteria are outcompeted by non-resistant ones easily.

      The problem here is that eventually bacteria always find a way to evade antibiotics with low enough metabolic cost.

    2. Re:Harvard Medical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also called LUCK.

    3. Re:Harvard Medical by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't believe in evolution, so I should be safe. God bless me!

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  34. Re: Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's what they want you to think. But if they're hindoos, why do they all worship Buddha?

  35. Oh My God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She had CRE! What the hell is that?

    1. Re: Oh My God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont know... but like the commercial says, ask your doctor if its right for you.

  36. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by mspohr · · Score: 1

    Industrial meat production uses more than 10 times the amount of antibiotics as human use.
    Human antibiotic use for the common cold, etc. is a problem but not nearly as bad as farm animal use.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  37. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by johanw · · Score: 1

    > Just FYI, Indians hate Muslims.

    Who doesn't? Even muslims hate muslims (sunni vs. shia).

  38. don't be too quick to judge by cats-paw · · Score: 2

    yes India has terrible controls on their antibiotic use, but remember that US farmers are using large amounts of antibiotics too keep their overcrowded livestock from dying too soon.

    --
    Absolute statements are never true
    1. Re:don't be too quick to judge by skam240 · · Score: 1

      So does India

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    2. Re:don't be too quick to judge by hey! · · Score: 1

      yes India has terrible controls on their antibiotic use, but remember that US farmers are using large amounts of antibiotics too keep their overcrowded livestock from dying too soon.

      India is a country with a median annual income of $616. With 1.2 billion people, well, a lot of things like providing medical care are going to be tough. We're headed that way too. While per capita GDP growth has recovered from the Great Recession, median income has declined.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  39. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    While slightly simplistic, he wasn't wrong. How does it feel to lose an argument with someone who can't spell 3rd grade terms?

  40. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by geoskd · · Score: 1

    By your logic, the US will only be safe when purged of Americans.

    Given recent events, that very well might be true...

    --
    I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
  41. garlic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did they try garlic?

    1. Re:garlic! by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      Its a Super Bug - you need Kryptonite!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  42. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Just FYI, Indians hate Muslims."

    That's not possible. Only white people can be racist. Everyone else on the world exhales fairy dust.

  43. Re: Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Guns don't kill people, Americans do.

  44. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about we compromise and say the US will be safe when we purge it of idiots willing to pay $15 for a $2 hamburger? :)

  45. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Either that or SJW libtards are incapable of recognizing God-tier satire.

    Since you haven't noticed the deafening roar of that "WHOOSH" flying over your head, I'll spell it out for you:

    "the ratings machine DJT" is a Democrat moderate pretending to be a Republican populist.

  46. Intensive factory farming by k2r · · Score: 1

    > Until we make use of anti-biotics in agriculture an international crime

    You can't have a cheap burger or cheap poultry without antibiotics, so this will not happen.

    1. Re:Intensive factory farming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Until we make use of anti-biotics in agriculture an international crime

      You can't have a cheap burger or cheap poultry without antibiotics, so this will not happen.

      The thing is, you can't have them, sustainably, with anti-biotics. The problem is that, some people get cheap burgers for a few years at the cost of everybody losing antibiotics almost forever.

    2. Re:Intensive factory farming by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Well, we can't maintain our per-capita productivity, and hence our economic standing in the world without antibiotics, so there's that. But ya, burgers are important, too.

  47. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Just an FYI, many Indians ARE Muslims.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  48. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You might think Trump supporters are stupid, but THEIR choice is in the White House next week.

    They won.

    You lost.

    Game over, you sad little SJW fag.

    It would have been nice if Republicans offered the same courtesy to Obama when he took office, but no. As a wise person once said, disrespect invites disrespect.

  49. Ratzo's track record by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    He's actually got the strangest record of managing to say a mix of both really interesting and really stupid statements, which is why I set his friend/neutral/foe setting for me as friend.

  50. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Solandri · · Score: 1

    I don't disagree with what you're saying, but according to TFA, the woman acquired the bug while in India - a country with the highest percentage of vegetarians in the world. This would suggest basic sanitation and health care, and being sure to complete prescription antibiotic regimens are bigger factors than the use of antibiotics in livestock.

  51. Re: Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals. by mspohr · · Score: 2

    According to this article,
    Antibiotics are readily available over the counter at most pharmacies leading to widespread overuse.
    He also cited poor public health practices, unsanitary living conditions, and increasing use of antibiotics for growth promotion in poultry as factors that contribute to the diminishing powers of antibiotics in India. With continued use of the drugs or their misuse, bacteria evolve into stronger forms that are resistant to antibiotics.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  52. Re: Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals by mspohr · · Score: 1

    Sorry, forgot to add the link to the article
    https://thinkprogress.org/indi...

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  53. Super Bugs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the Super Bug came from someone sneezing on the Air-Plane?
    India's population is more than let's say, 1Billion people like metropolitan cities so crowded.
    I'm sure that if there was a Super Bug in India then the Super Bug would of been in every city around the world.
    ** If you walk in a crowded city in New York and someone was sick, then the contamination ratio is way up there if it's a Super Bug compared to a cold/flu.

  54. Serious question, what about iodine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would guess that this was tried anyway if it was appropriate, as iodine has been used for over 100 years in hospitals, but the interesting thing is that from what I have read it seems to be one of the few things that microbes don't build a resistance to.

    1. Re:Serious question, what about iodine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can cauterize a wound and burn the bacteria, but no, you should not swallow hot coal to cure your gonorrhea. Extreme heat has been used for hundreds of years for disinfection, and from what I understand, fire is one of those things that microbes don't build a resistance to.

      buddy, you need to just shut the fuck up about things you have zero understanding about. hey - you think with all the nig-shootings humans will get an anti-bullet gene and we'll have to replace guns?

      you are a Moron. a retarded complete fucking drooling idiot. Shut up. Stop posting. Stay in your room.

  55. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, peanut butter is not Indian food.

  56. Superbug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coming to your hometown soon! Haha. Can't stop it, gonna eat you all alive.

  57. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by skam240 · · Score: 1

    28.8 rate of vegetarianism then? I don't think you realize the remainder population in India that consumes meat is therefore about twice the population of the US. Now couple that with the fact that the country is maybe half the size of the US and you can be assured that they are pumping those animals up with anything that will make them grow faster (to make up for lack of grazing space) at rate minimum to that of America's worst offenders.

    With that said a bit less than 80% of all antibiotics sold in this country are sold to the meat industry. http://www.politifact.com/trut... (An odd source, yes but it was easy and they did their research well enough for my standards)

    Given these facts I dont see how you can come to your conclusion.

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  58. Re:evolution is a lie! by hey! · · Score: 1

    Whatever, evolution is a lie. God made new kinds of viruses to punish the non beliebers.

    You know, even if there weren't real people who actually think this way this comment still wouldn't be funny.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  59. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it the Midi-Floridians that are the problem now?

  60. Did they try slightly left field stuff? by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    I couldn't see if they tried ionic metals such as silver and copper. Or ozone.

  61. Potential use of CRISPR/CAS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would CRISPR/CAS be a potential solution in this case ?

    Edit the gene that allows this enzyme to be produced ?

    1. Re:Potential use of CRISPR/CAS by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      The problem is while you might be able to edit the gene on a local culture/colony in a lab, there's no way to spread it. In the end it's spreading via natural selection because it selects bacteria that live (due to being antibiotic resistant).

      Since bacteria reproduce through binary fission, the bacteria with the knocked out/altered gene won't have a good way of spreading the change. And even if they did, it probably wouldn't replace the active gene.

  62. Re: Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And there are also significant numbers of Christians (a very ancient community), Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs and Ba`hai, and even some atheists and others.

  63. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by blindseer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have to wonder what people think happens on a farm. I grew up on a farm where we had pigs and dairy cattle. We gave the animals antibiotics, but it was rare.

    For the pigs we'd give them a shot of antibiotics when we'd get a batch of new pigs in. A pig's life is short, less than a year, and they'd typically get one shot of antibiotics in their life. Pigs cost money, so do antibiotics, so the job of a pig farmer is to balance those costs. Penicillin is cheap but not free. If a pig got sick then it might get another shot. If it got real sick then it got a different kind of shot, as in from a rifle. The carcass of a pig like that could not be sold for meat but the leather was valuable, for a while at least. At some point the rendering truck stopped picking up the dead pigs for free and started to charge for the service, that's when Dad started to just bury them. Any pigs sold for meat are tested for antibiotics. I'm not sure what happened if they tested positive but Dad would make sure that any pig given a shot would not go to market until enough time has passed for the antibiotics to get out of their system.

    The dairy cattle would also typically get one shot of antibiotics in their life, when they'd get dehorned. This was because they were at risk of infection at this point until the wound healed over. Any cattle given antibiotics recently were not able to be sold for meat, and they are also tested like the pigs. Any cow given antibiotics while milking had the milk discarded until the antibiotics were out of their system. Milk was also regularly tested for antibiotics. If antibiotics were found in the milk this would mean the milk was discarded. Since the milk of an entire herd was put in the same tank a single cow testing positive would contaminate thousands of gallons of milk. I remember having to do this before, Dad was pissed since that meant not getting money for that milk.

    Here's the thing, antibiotics are necessary. I thought it funny too on how much farmers rely on antibiotics if it upset so many people. I saw the value in the Army. When going through in processing I got an antibiotic shot, as did everyone else in the company. It turns out that when you put a lot of living and breathing beings in an enclosed space, be they recruits in a barracks or pigs in a shed, they tend to get sick. I still ended up getting a pretty nasty lung infection while in the Army, they gave me a potent antibiotic that made me sensitive to the sun. I got the worst sunburn in my life then.

    Just say no to antibiotic treated animals.

    If you don't like it then go ahead and buy your "organic" meat or go vegan. I know what farmers do to get animals to market and if these animals weren't treated for infections then meat gets real expensive due to losses. Quality would go down too because healthy animals make tasty meat. Since so many people in this world seem able to eat this meat and live well I'm trying to figure out what the problem is exactly.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  64. The Georgans have a technology by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 2

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    Never got popular because it's harder than a pill and so no one puts the effort in to get it past the FDA

    1. Re:The Georgans have a technology by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "In Russia, mixed phage preparations may have a therapeutic efficacy of 50%. This equates to the complete cure of 50 of 100 patients with terminal antibiotic-resistant infection. The rate of only 50% is likely to be due to individual choices in admixtures and ineffective diagnosis of the causative agent of infection."

  65. Re:evolution is a lie! by turp182 · · Score: 1

    I find it comical, none of us have found the right god yet, and I don't believe we are getting any closer.

    Further, the person is probably a polytheist in the ilk of ancient Roman's or Greek's. He just meant "Gods", so it was a typo...

    --
    BlameBillCosby.com
  66. This is why DDT was "banned". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Overuse of a cure, doubly so when you apply it incorrectly or sporadically, increases the chance of a rare mutation that protects against the cure will multiply in a much more open and free arena for population growth.

    Of course, DDT hasn't been BANNED banned, just the idiotic use for widespread copspraying has been banned, which it had never been authorised for in the first place, though that didn't stop idiots doing it that way anyway.

    It also shows why Zika got a cure toot sweet in the west: the wealthy bastards didn't want to see themselves dead.

    1. Re:This is why DDT was "banned". by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      It also shows why Zika got a cure toot sweet in the west: the wealthy bastards didn't want to see themselves dead.

      There's more to it than that. If the laboratory and the researchers are far away from the disease you can hardly expect a viable cure to be developed quickly. There's only so much you can do with a field laboratory.

      Of course, DDT hasn't been BANNED banned, just the idiotic use for widespread copspraying has been banned, which it had never been authorised for in the first place, though that didn't stop idiots doing it that way anyway.

      I don't know about that. DDT basically eliminated malaria from southern Europe, including Italy. The cure was basically to drain the swamps and spray DDT everywhere. But good luck try to implement that in 3rd world countries. You would get Greenpeace and other greenie envir-wackos saying that you need to preserve the swamp to the detriment of the human population. Why don't they just go live there... I suspect they would change their tune rather quickly.

      I avoid 3rd world cesspools like India. It still needs a lot of basic sanitation improvements and it's ridden with malaria and other tropical diseases. Even things like dysentery and cholera.

  67. Two reasons why they overprescribe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    1) You pay a SHITLOAD for your medical bills in the USA, so you INSIST that you get your money's worth. If it had been a national health service, you would have wanted to somewhat reduce the cost and not insisted on "something" being done. So the quickest way to shut you up (the general "you") is to give you pills and send you out happy. That does increase the cost, and ensures that simple medicines can command a high price: the doctor doesn't have to pay for them,neither do you, and you whine about increased insurance, but you have to buy it anyway. Or your employer (temporarily) does as part of your employment.

    2) There's money giving out medicine. Even where there's a national health service and single payer, more is spent on wining and dining the doctors (IOW marketing) to "inform them" of the latest and best drugs on the market. So the doctor is bombarded with adverts. And they're no less prone to being brainwashed than anyone else.

    3) You can't have 1 day off sick without it coming out of your "time bank", already tiny, which means an unscheduled "holiday". So taking a treatment is of great benefit to you. Your employer wants you in and working, even if you're still sick, because you are a measure of the managers' ability to manage, and the only metric they have to measure your performance that can't be refuted.

  68. So you agree with SJWs, then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people on the left don't. Any more than most people on the right believe the earth is flat. Rather more people on the right believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, mind, so it's far more likely that people on the right believe flat earthers than people on the left believe SJWs.

    But there you go. Believing, like many on the right, that the SJWs are right and therefore you're persecuted by EVERYONE for being white, when in fact you're not. But reality doesn't let you play the martyr when you're on top.

    Look at Louis CK.

    100% acknowledges female and LGBTQ rights and racism from whites. 100% accepts that merely being white in the USA means you've won the privilege lottery in the USA. 100% rejects SJWs blatantly black-and-white view of those subjects.

    Is he left or right?

    Left.

    But the left aren't the frothing extremists you insist they all are. You reject this because, despite being at the top of the pile compared with others you don't identify with, you want to be persecuted, so that you can get undeserved sympathy and shut those people who say things you don't like to here by shaming them for being SO MEAN!!

    The majority of the right don't feel like you, but a huge number, and the VAST majority by noise generated.

    SJWs get more screentime than YECers because neither side likes their fake concern so that they can paint themselves as the white knight, protecting the underdog (and, if they can manage it, paint themselves as the ultimate victim too). And this screentime despite VASTLY fewer people doing it. Because YECers are identified by other christians as "misguided", but still part of them, so picking on YECers is picking on Christians.

    For every "sexist" male hounded out of their job by SJWs on the warpath, several atheists or anti-christians have been hounded out of their job by religious whackjobs. But only the former gets screentime, because the left are an easier target, and in this case, even the left hates their bigotry.

  69. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you may have misunderstood the argument. The concern isn't that humans are getting antibiotics into their system from meat or dairy, the concern is that the animals themselves provide an environment in which antibiotic-resistant bacteria can grow.

    Giving a shot to every animal in a new batch is exactly the problem: you now have a batch of pigs where non-resistant bacteria is scarce, and the resistant bacteria can out-compete them in their environment. Any animals that don't have resistant bacteria can now more easily pick up a resistant strain from the other animals (within the same batch, or from an earlier batch if they're kept in the same environment).

    Resistant bacteria can have no affect on the animal--if good gut bacteria is resistant, for example, that may do no harm so long as it remains in the animal's gut. The problem is when that bacteria finds its way into another environment. Raw meat with resistant bacteria can spread it around a kitchen (using antibacterial soap will only make the problem worse--killing off the competition), and then accidentally cutting yourself while preparing food can lead to life threatening illness.

  70. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    When going through in processing I got an antibiotic shot, as did everyone else in the company. It turns out that when you put a lot of living and breathing beings in an enclosed space, be they recruits in a barracks or pigs in a shed, they tend to get sick.

    Wouldn't it be cheaper to put up a few walls in barracks than to compromise everyone's immune and digestive systems by giving them antibiotics whether they need them or not?

    How do you know that was actually an antibiotic shot? You don't, because when you enlist you give up your right to refuse injections, or to know what they contain. Sheeple.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  71. Human sewage is spread on farms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our waste treatment plants (many of them) marginally treat human waste.
    The waste is then spread on farm fields (they politely call it "Biosolids")
    Many people flush their medicines.

    Theory - virulent, antibiotic resistant bacteria is literally wide spread, which is then supplanted back to farm animals in their hay and grain.
    The bacteria becomes inadvertently weaponized by our own laws, procedure, and human ignorance/lack of awareness perpetuates the problem.

    You are now informed.

  72. Let's get some real info in here by Dripdry · · Score: 1

    People in India use antibiotics for EVERYTHING. Headache? Take antibiotic. Bad eyesight? Antibiotic. Bad marriage? take antibiotic. Antibiotics are cheap and people there don't know any better. They're creating horrible superbugs there because they *are* overusing antibiotics. The people here complaining about the U.S. overusing antibiotics are making a pointless argument: The bug was gotten in India, not the U.S. (though yes, there are superbugs here, but that's n ot the point of the article).

    Also, this is one reason to keep up the CDC: If that superbug finds a way into the U.S. we could get well and truly fucked, and it's the CDC's job to help ensure stuff like this stays contained and doesn't contaminate the rest of the population.

    --
    -
  73. Re:Indians: if their food doesn't kill you, their by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    How does the proverb go? Hindis as Hindoes.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  74. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you know that was actually an antibiotic shot? You don't, because when you enlist you give up your right to refuse injections, or to know what they contain. Sheeple.

    I also don't know that the TV in my rented apartment doesn't have a miniture camera watching me jack off. Or that the instant coffee that I drink for free at work isn't brown-colored urine. Or that the shots that my doctor gives me aren't actually placebos.

    Either go full blown paranoid or stop complaining about things just because you don't personally agree with them and pretending you have some other reason.

  75. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Cyberpunk+Reality · · Score: 1

    The type of farm you're describing barely exists anymore. Industrial farming is the rule now, and they do use antibiotics (and growth hormones, and everything) is vast quantities.

    --
    Rule 35 of the internet: "If it can be hacked, it will be". - Charles Stross
  76. Could have tried something not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An antibiotic.

  77. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by blindseer · · Score: 1

    I think you may have misunderstood the argument. The concern isn't that humans are getting antibiotics into their system from meat or dairy, the concern is that the animals themselves provide an environment in which antibiotic-resistant bacteria can grow.

    Do you have any evidence of this? If the pigs didn't get their shot on coming into the confinement building then a lot of them would get sick, we know this. Sick pigs cost money. Dead pigs cost even more money.

    Farmers get it from all sides, if they give the pigs antibiotics then they are breeding "superbugs", if they don't then they are abusing the animals by not keeping them healthy. Which is it? Antibiotics or a bunch of dead pigs from a common lung infection?

    Raw meat with resistant bacteria can spread it around a kitchen (using antibacterial soap will only make the problem worse--killing off the competition), and then accidentally cutting yourself while preparing food can lead to life threatening illness.

    Cook your meat, be careful with a knife, and generally take care with your food.

    You think that modern farmers don't know about the risks of a "superbug"? Of course they do. They also know that without this stuff we'd see a lot more sick people. There is a lot of care in making sure our food it safe to eat. This is often taken to extremes, costing farmers a lot of money for a minor risk.

    The need to keep the antibiotics out of the meat and milk is precisely the kind of precautions taken to keep "superbugs" out of the food supply.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  78. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus near concentrated animal feeding operations:
    https://www.wired.com/2014/01/mrsa-col-cafo/
    CDC confirms link to superbugs:
    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/10/02/factory-farms-superbugs.aspx

  79. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Prove it. Farmers today are college educated and they are taught how to manage illness in herds. Overuse of antibiotics is a known problem. Meat inspectors will look for sick animals and not allow them into the food supply. Too many sick animals, antibiotics in meat or milk, and a farmer risks losing their license to sell product.

    Did you even know you need a license to sell milk? There are inspectors that know about the problem of "superbugs" and they look for bad practices that can breed them. One thing inspectors look for is how antibiotics are used.

    Again, show me how antibiotics are abused. I admit that my knowledge of how a farm is run could be out of date. Dad was one of the last of his kind, he ran a farm without even a high school education. Today farmers are college educated, they tend to study animal science like Gov. Rick Perry did. Among those classes they'll take is "meat safety" which Perry famously got a "D" grade in. People laugh at how Perry got a poor grade in a class on "meat" but this is serious stuff. It's these college educated farmers that make the tasty tasty bacon I love. I'm not going to second guess their use of antibiotics, just like they aren't likely to second guess my choice of compilers. We each have our specializations, I'm staying in mine and perhaps you need to stay in yours.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  80. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have to wonder what people think happens on a farm. I grew up on a farm where we had pigs and dairy cattle.

    What you say is probably true for the majority of farms. Furthermore, plenty of farmers are great people who love their land, and even if they are damaging it, are mostly doing it through a lack of choice. However that isn't where the majority of food is produced. Most of that happens in huge agri-biz production units / factory farms. These likely have very little relation to where you grew up. They keep the animals too densely to survive without antibiotics and only take them off for a final clean up before sale. This is where the real problem is.

    Since so many people in this world seem able to eat this meat and live well I'm trying to figure out what the problem is exactly.

    A big problem is that people don't check their sourcing and understand what they are eating. They eat far far too much meat and they demand it cheap, since they don't see the benefit of better stuff. They get mass produced, factory farmed meat and that means high density and huge antibiotic use. You basically have the perfect conditions for developing antibiotic resistant bacteria. This is making anti-biotics become ineffective in the long term and is going to destroy agriculture based around their use but only after human health has already been damaged.

  81. Fungi are doing the same thing FYI. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    I got something at the gym which resisted every OTC anti-fungal.

    The doctor finally prescribed me something for it that killed it.

    Fungi are creepy because they live on you as a food supply like you are walking dirt.

    If you get enough and have a fungal bloom tho, they can kill you quickly.

    Likewise, medicating a bad infestation too aggressively results in a toxin overload and can kill you.

    I quit the gym when I got a second fungal infection about six months later that was also resistant (I was able to use the prescribed stuff to kill it).

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  82. Bacteriophage Therapy by Scot+Seese · · Score: 1

        If antibiotics fail, the decades of Soviet research (pre and post-wall Georgia in particular) into bacteriophages may prove to be humanities' savior.

      Have a nasty superbug that antibiotics can't treat? Somewhere out there are equally evil viruses that love to hunt and eat that specific type of bacterium, leaving the host untouched.

    Discovering and curating them may be crucial in the near future.

    --
    THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
  83. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem was explained in the article, but it appears you won't really get it until you or someone close to you gets one of these bugs and has to have their arm or leg amputated (if they're lucky).

  84. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

    Just to be clear, your experience growing up on a farm is vastly different from today's commercial farming practices. Both my father and grandfather grew up on farms. My grandfather in his old age related to me a story where he had visited a commercial farm late in his life. He was shocked at the conditions that the animals were kept in, and where before he had been frustrated at the sterilization and sanitation required by state laws, he said that after he saw that literal shit hole, he realized that commercial farms were why the laws existed, because they keep their animals in conditions that no family farm would ever dream of subjecting their animals to, whether it be dairy cows, chickens or pigs.

    Part of the solution is to prevent importing animal products from antibiotics abusing countries and forcing hygienic practices at all farms, instead of hosing down the feed every morning with antibiotics. Will meat go up in price? Yes, some, but it is a small price to pay for not having 20% of the world population die from some super strain of pneumonia that is resistant to everything...

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
  85. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you want him to prove that most of the livestock has antibiotics added to their food? this is a basic fact known to everybody. it's not our job to educate rednecks like you. go google it yourself.

    by the way, redneck, antibiotics are not used to cure sick animals. they're used to kill gut bacteria. you fucking retard.

  86. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What hole did you pull those 'facts' out of? Why assume India is equal or worse than the worst offender (USA) just to try and have something to argue? Find some actual information and try again. Resubmit or you will be marked FAIL.

  87. Re: One of few things government should be fundin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, Uk, Germany, Belgium, Japan, Italy...etc etc etc...

    OP is an ignorant moron.

  88. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    Prove it.

    There is a misunderstanding here. They aren't talking about antibiotics used to treat animals for infection. Your knowledge is out-of-date here. Let me explain:

    Commercial farms buy feed with antibiotics *in the feed itself*. They aren't doing it to treat disease, they are doing it because the antibiotics make the animals grow fatter, faster. I don't think it is entirely understood why. These people aren't "farmers" in the way that you describe farmers. These are heavily mechanised factories.

    There's tons of articles on this topic. Try Scientific American for a start, since they cover the whole history of it. Searches for "antibiotics chicken feed" should yield some good results.

  89. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Or that the instant coffee that I drink for free at work isn't brown-colored urine.

    It might as well be.

    Either go full blown paranoid or stop complaining about things just because you don't personally agree with them and pretending you have some other reason.

    The apparently paranoid part there is really not central to the main topic here, I just threw it in for fun. It's true, but let's put that aside for now. The main issue is that overuse of antibiotics is a problem already. Solving problems with drugs instead of actually addressing root causes only causes other problems.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  90. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by jwhitener · · Score: 1

    Was your farm a large scale cattle/pig feedlot? Because those are typically run a lot differently than smaller family farms. For instance, cattle in feedlots are often given feed with antibiotics in it, as a disease prevention measure.

    For example:
    http://www.hubbardfeeds.com/product/chlorotetracycline-ctc-crumbles

    I grew up on a farm as well, and have been around agriculture through relatives most my life. I know from experience that not many farmers follow labels very closely. Not finishing a full course of antibiotics, etc.. Just like some dumb parents do to their kids, giving them a single antibiotic pill from the cupboard from time to time when they get a cold.

  91. Re:Indiscriminate antibiotic use in farm animals.. by jwhitener · · Score: 1

    The wise use of antibiotics is not a substitute for, but a complement to, good sanitation and husbandry practices.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK216502/

    If you don't like it then go ahead and buy your "organic" meat or go vegan. I know what farmers do to get animals to market and if these animals weren't treated for infections then meat gets real expensive due to losses. Quality would go down too because healthy animals make tasty meat.

    1. Meat needs to become more expensive in my opinion. If you care about the environment and human health.
    2. Quality does not go down. The opposite. I'd put up any of the free-range organic beef I buy against any feedlot beef any day of the year. 100% guarantee that the expensive beef I buy is much better quality than any of the corn-fed feedlot beef.