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Cutting H-1Bs Could Mean More Competition From China and India, Says GoDaddy CEO (cnbc.com)
Silicon Valley companies continue to express their concerns about the restrictions on H-1B visa program. The H-1B visa program -- which enables U.S. companies to hire foreign workers -- has become a political lightning rod but remains essential for American companies to hire the technical talent they need to compete on a global scale, said GoDaddy CEO Blake Irving. From his interview on CNBC: "We do not produce enough technically qualified candidates in this country," he said. "You can't take an 18-month training program and produce a machine-learning scientist." Irving was particularly concerned about overseas competition. The American university system is good at training foreign workers for tech jobs, and it is essential that the U.S. government allows them to stay in the country to fulfill U.S. jobs, he said. Otherwise, we train workers from countries like China and India and then send them back to those countries to set up tech ecosystems that compete with Silicon Valley.
Competition is generally regarded as a good thing. When these people stay in the USA, they generally depress wages and send all the money they earn back to their home countries anyway, which does the rest of the US economy no good at all. Really I'm not sure we should even have any sort of H1-B program at all.
Maybe the University could just train the American kids instead.... I know... I'm throwing up in my mouth as I type it.
Just hire locals you cheap-ass CEOs. You'll get more adept, better labor for it and it pays for itself in having a more agile company.
> "You can't take an 18-month training program and produce a machine-learning scientist."
That's fine - if you're looking for machine-learning scientists.
Unfortunately, the majority of the recipients of these H1B's are low paid scab labor, imported to cut labor costs.
Raising the cost of H1B's should take care of that loophole while still allowing GoDaddy to import their "machine-learning scientists".
CEO who profits from cheap labor wants more cheap labor. Film at 11.
If it's coming from GoDaddy, it can safely be ignored. Fucking shitty company.
The Trump administration is considering reprioritizing H-1B visas. Right now, such visas are given out based on a lottery around April 1, which is utterly irrational and chaotic; it causes outsourcing firms to flood the visa application process with numerous fake applications, instead of the visas going to US companies that actually need those workers. Under the new rules, H-1B visas would be given to the highest paid workers and with precedence to people graduating from US universities. No matter what you think about the absolute number of H-1B visas, that's a good change to the immigration program.
If, in addition, the US reduces the number of work visas, that would result in more foreign competition, unless made up for elsewhere. But Trump has generally advocated a merit-based immigration system, which may mean more skilled immigrants (as opposed to H-1B visa holders) and less unskilled labor and family-based immigration. Again, that seems like a win-win.
Of course, we'll have to see what he actually does. The Orange One is a bit unpredictable and tends to act rashly.
He should talk to all the developers from Disney who were replaced with H1B workers and forced to train them.
Instead of restricting the number of h1b's, it would be simpler if we just taxed them. It could be a flat fee like 20k/year per h1b or it could be a percentage like 20% of payroll. Either way, it would allow companies to hire as many h1b candidates as they need but still give them an incentive to hire local talent first. The number one complain everyone has with h1b is that h1b employees are willing to work for less but if you added a yearly surcharge to the h1b then that argument becomes void because it would then be cheaper to hire local talent than h1b. You could even go to 50% or 100% if you needed to but to me a surcharge makes more sense than a hiring cap. A 50% surcharge would make local talent at 149k cheaper to hire than a h1b at 100k which would completely get rid of the complain that the only reason companies hire h1b is to save money not because the talent isn't available.
While many on /., including me, do engineering because we are geeky and love the challenge, that's not the case for average people. For average people, programming or tinkering with computers are boring and stressful jobs. They might choose to do it because the field has brighter employment future. That's why Americans don't want to take up the jobs. Even in China, the newer generation would avoid engineering and opt for finance or entertainment, because as the newer generations grow up a richer economy and so no longer under stress for survival.
Once you have a lot of people entering the fields, there will also be sufficient number of good practitioners produced.
So if the employment prospects of other fields are dimmer, Americans will rush back into engineering. They already started the shift, witnessing all the talks about computer science classes for kiddies.
I can't hire System Engineers for $9 hour so obviously the problem is that there aren't enough System Engineers here.
If you want the equivalent of a College B.S. in machine learning 18 months of intense training is more than you'd actually get during your 4 years at college. possibly even more than a masters. If you are looking for PhD level, then 18 months maybe isn't there entirely. But over the next year or two of work experience, in a job emphasizing research in AI with a good mentor, would definitely produce pHD level graduates. I know this because I've seen it done at my company, producing major leaders through this process.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
A lot of the moves that new administration suggested as making things better for the US worker, actually undermines the USA's position in the world and actually will end up potentially hurting jobs. Often the "take it all" approach it actually the less ideal position of giving up a little.
Helping NATO's members and the UN, while maybe not the best sounding when it comes to money, it does end up allowing the US to have sway over the politics of other countries and therefore help keep the US as a focal point for business.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
We the elists CEOs who like fucking over US programmers are going seriously take it in the ass if we eliminate H1B visa's! We may be forced to close and live on the same crap income we planned for our programmers! Whaaaaahh.. my pussy hurts! Make it stop!
Once upon a time in the US, people learned their trade on the job. It was expected that the company would train the worker to do the job. What happened?
No matter the issue, Trump doesn't understand anything other ratings and popularity. He gets a certain segment of the population riled up with really simple ideas 1) we're bringing jobs back 2) every problem you have is the fault of this group of people 3) if the jobs don't come back, it the fault of another group of people
He sets the stage for other people to fight it out and get attention for himself. He has absolutely no interest in solving problems, no ability to understand what his actions do, and no empathy for the people he affects.
This shit will continue.
I work with dozens of H1B visa holders. I scoured the lands of the US for 1.5 years to fill a vacant position and I couldn't find anyone in the US to do it. I work in NIH funded research and needed a programmer at $45k/yr. I was fine with a new college grad, and I still couldn't find anyone. Eventually I get an email from someone in Turkey, and we hired her. She's amazing. However if this shit with the H1B's goes through, we can't pay her and she'll have to go back. I won't be able to fill the position. We'll have to let go 6 employees whom we can't replace. If just this H4E spousal visa shit happens, then my employee's husband will have to leave. The spouses of 3 of our employees would have to leave.
Why can't we find the right people here? I honestly don't know. I went to every college in the area and said "If you have taken a programming class, I want you. I'll pay you. I'll train you in the languages we use" and no responses. Why??
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
" You can't take an 18-month training program and produce a machine-learning scientist"
He is right you can't, however that does not mean we do not need to change the system to encourage more American talent to go down this route. This is actually why a bidding system for H1Bs would be great. People with high level skills will continue to be allowed in. Also those with high potential will also be brought in. The Low skill low talent low cost hacks will be priced out. We have enough people who can fill that need with the 18--month training programs.
is very, very nice. It's on Lake Washington in a new building between Kirkland and Bellevue which are both booming tech cities. I have a couple of friends that work there, and they now only hire low-cost Indians. I had two interns that were making $10 per hour that are now full-time employees there making $12 after they graduated from Univ of Washington. They're hiring incompetent, low-cost people that can't do the job. Of course they want to keep that pipeline of cheap idiots open.
yeah, hiring foreign workers isn't a problem if those workers actually have skills that a local worker doesn't, but that's 99% not the case, those foreign workers are hired because they are much cheaper than the local workers, but don't have extra skills (mostly even less)..
And most of those 60K plus workers are machine learning people earning less than 130K/year? The program cuts won't hurt those guys. They WILL hurt the guys coming in at 60K (the minimum) who are replacing the 45-50 year old programmers earning 100-140K, that they are replacing at less than half the cost, that said 45-50 workers have to TRAIN to do their job
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
said every undocumented mexican immigrant never. The goal is to make a shit ton of money here and move back and live life like a king in a 3rd world shithole. A Hundred thousand goes a long way in some of these places.
How will American kids even have the chops to enter university with Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education ?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
This is the very same reason why unqualified H1-B people should not be let slide in. H1-B is designated to augment where the trained workforce is not avvailable, not to import cheap labor, train them and send them back to their homeland to compete against the US workers. Abolishing H1-B is counter productive as US can not be expected to have highly trained workforce in every possible scientific discipline, but importing candidates for managing Windows servers is just wrong.
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
... it's probably a good thing.
I dont know... I saw this self cleaning toilet the other day... lol surely those are going sell like wildfire.
I went to the US for my Master's in a top-25 state uni. I was good, so I didn't even have to pay after the first semester (research assistanship). I worked with an H1b for 3 years (at a competitive rate), but when I was close to renewal, we'd have to file on the first day and hope we were not late competing with all the outsourcing companies bringing free labor, then my wife who was also finishing her degree would have to get a separate H1b, because H1b's don't allow your dependents to work, so both would have to be timed perfectly... and if any of our employers ran out of business etc, we'd have to scramble to get another to continue our visa... at which point I said, yeah, right, screw that, let's go back to Europe, which is what several of my classmates eventually did...
So, why provide world-leading education and then send them away? Forget about setting arbitrary wage minimums - that doesn't even make sense given how much wages are dependent on location in the US. Give people who have post-grad studies in good US universities a way to stay without weird restrictions like being tied to a job, or dependents who can't work etc, instead of sending them away and instead importing low-cost unskilled labor.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
I don't see the problem. If their is literally not a single American that can fill the position, then you should have no trouble paying the H1B that does fill the role what he is worth.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
If they could outsource the jobs to India or China where the costs are lower they wouldn't need H1-bs. They want the visas because for whatever reason the work needs to be done here in America.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"You can't take an 18-month training program and produce a machine-learning scientist."
I swear, many of the H1B visa holders I've met, went thru an 18 week Java program to list it on their resume.
Heck, even a number of my friends here on H1B visas want them to be cut back. It's getting to hard for them to switch jobs.
All I ever heard of it before on here was how awful it was.
If only to be the epitome of the problem.
Let make this analogous to the the poor farmers in the US who "can't find anyone to work those jobs".
"
I work with dozens of Illegal immigrants. I scoured the lands of the US for 1.5 years to fill a vacant position and I couldn't find anyone in the US to do it. I work in Apple Picking and needed a picker at $5k/yr. I was fine with a kid dropped out of high school, and I still couldn't find anyone. Eventually I get an email from someone in Mexico, and we hired her. She's amazing. However if this shit with the Illegals goes through, we can't pay her (a living wage) and she'll have to go back. I won't be able to fill the position. We'll have to let go 6 employees whom we can't replace (or marginally raise prices as everyone else will helping to boost a cyclical economy).
Why can't we find the right people here? I honestly don't know (I do but I want to address my unwillingness to pay the market price for talent). I went to every college in the area and said "If you have taken a programming class, I want you. I'll pay you (as little as I possibly can, maybe call you an intern and not at all). I'll train you in the languages we use" and no responses. Why??
"
1. Adjust income to $100K, adjusted by inflation. Any position not meeting the criteria is subject to investigation, and heavy penalty if a U.S. able bodied and qualified willing worker is found.
2. H1B Visa is held by company only for the first year. After that the H1B Visa holder is a free agent. If the skill is so rare, that it cannot be filled within the U.S., and another firm also needs the skill. They should be able to hire the Visa holder. This will likely mean an offer for increased wage, and mean this skillset will increase in value. All a good thing.
3. H1B Visa Education Tax. The justification for H1B Visas is that no one in America has the qualified skills. (Though usually the case is no one in America can afford to take a $60K job in a major metro area where their choice is to live in a high crime area or have a 2+ hour daily commute.) But let's take it at face value. A skill is needed, it pays well, no candidates have the training. So let's get some Americans trained. For every $100K salary increment of an H1B visa, there will be an additional $10K tax that will help fund making community colleges free.
So an $65K Java position will have an additional $10K tax. A doctor making $285K will have an additional $30K tax.
4. Prohibit mandated salary reductions of H1B Visa holders.
I'll bet I could be really competitive in business if I underpaid all my workers. Maybe this whole thing wouldn't even show up as an issue had it not been for the historic abuse of the H1B program by big US companies? Remember the Disney fiasco of not too long ago? I thought one of Trump's campaign promises to was to mandate a minimum wage for H1B workers, so they would only be used when REALLY needed, rather than just be used to undercut US tech salaries.
"We do not produce enough technically qualified candidates in this country"
"Forced to train H1B replacement"
Pick one.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
For an H1B, you are supposed to pay the normal rate.
It's $60k/yr in rural low-tax places. It's $90k/yr in normal cities. It's $120k/yr in the tech and financial hot spots.
You have committed a crime, causing wages to be reduced and causing a reduction in people willing to enter the field.
"We do not produce enough technically qualified candidates in this country," he said. "You can't take an 18-month training program and produce a machine-learning scientist."
While the second part of that statement may be true, the first is not for the vast, vast majority of H-1B positions.
Do we really not have enough people that know Java, for example? I call bullshit.
FFS, we invented Java, and to claim that the US doesn't have enough skilled Java programmers to fill the demand is just plain bullshit. This is all about getting workers below-scale and who are slavishly compliant because they don't want to be sent back to whatever jobless, 3rd-world shithole they came from.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Is anyone shocked that corporate-owned media is serving up stories and interviews with corporate bosses that favor corporate profits? Where are the interviews with workers who lost their jobs?
I'm still puzzled at why there isn't any anger from rank-and-file liberals at how the corporate interests infiltrated and took over the liberal movement to the point where every liberal newspaper is advocating policies that favor corporate profits, such as globalization and importing cheap labor. There was a brief backlash in the form of the Bernie movement, but the corporate liberals squashed that pretty quick in favor of their stooge Clinton.
"I work with dozens of H1B visa holders. I scoured the lands of the US for 1.5 years to fill a vacant position and I couldn't find anyone in the US to do it. I work in NIH funded research and needed a programmer at $45k/yr."
Ya, you were budgeted $45K/year. That's not enough to live on in most of the country, especially not with student loans that an education in the field requires. So basically, what you're saying is your failure to find a candidate had NOTHING to do with their abilities or skills. It simply was a matter of you not being willing to pay a reasonable salary. So you took advantage of someone from a second world country.
Congrats.....
10 to 1, you're also a registered Democrat or an Independent who voted for Hillary.
Reminds me of an add I saw.
"Social Worker position. Must have doctorate. Salary $35K/year."
Um really, how are you going to find any one with a doctorate at that salary? Oh, hire a foreigner who has no college debt from their degree.
Oh give me a break. GoDaddy runs a seedy domain registrar and some hosting services.
Here's how you fix the H1B abuses:
1. Minimum wage - I propose $150k per year. H1B visas were designed to attract the most brilliant minds of their fields - not run-of-the-mill programers and systems engineers. The fact that most H1Bs make the low-ends of their pay spectrum shows the visas are being used as cheap imported labor.
2. Corporations should not hold the visas - the visas must be granted to and held by individuals - and they are not transferrable. This would ensure that only the most motivated and skilled would come here and be hired by sponsoring companies. If the visa holder ends his/her employment with the sponsoring company the visa expires and can not be renewed in that year and can not be reissued to another candidate. This would encourage sponsoring companies to treat their visa holders as humans instead of indentured servants.
3. Small annual cap of visas - maybe 50,000 or less. This would ensure only the most valuable and skilled positions are filled by these visa holders.
Wipro, Tata and Infosys can go cry me a river.
You live in a dream world. Those gifted but poor kids still won't be able to get the classes they need. Charter schools won't set up in poor areas because the potential administrators know they won't succeed.
The poor parents can't afford to gifted send their children to another district because they don't have the time and money. All that will happen is those poor kids will attend schools that are even more starved of resources because of the effects of vouchers.
The problem that Betsy DeVos wants to "solve" is that public schools don't teach religion and creationism.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
"I was good, so I didn't even have to pay after the first semester (research assistanship)."
Funny, those programs were often available for foreign students but not U.S. students. Go figure. Most U.S. students, even the ones graduating with 4.0's walk out with thousands in debt.
"We do not produce enough technically qualified candidates in this country,"
Complete Bullshit.
What they mean is..."We do not produce enough technically qualified candidates in this country that we can pay low wages and hold hostage with H1-B visas"
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Why should I be obliged or inclined to pay a worker any more or less than I would pay an equally qualified one who was from somewhere elsee?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The only people that would think that making what a H1-B hire makes is a good deal thinks so 'cause a free green card comes attached.
- real hackers don't have sigs -
That's under the H1B salary minimum of $60k/year. You don't pay enough. Even the "body shop" contracting agencies pay more than that for junior devs in 3rd tier cities. I lived and worked in one of the poorest cities in the US and starting contractor wages were $28 an hour as a w2 consultant through an agency. You are very much out of line with the market and that's why you have a problem. Even during the worst of the recession, that wage would be very bad.
Betsy is interested in turning education into a for-profit enterprise. That's worked so well for medical care, let's fuck up American schools with the same bullshit.
inflation used to be a lot higher, too
one could even make the argument that the two things are related
Mr. Irving says that the new rules could stop specialists from coming over and working. Actually, these are the people we should have on H1-B's, people who have a particular skill and will be paid at the going rate or higher because they do have a unique skill set. People coming in on H1-Bs that do not have any unique skills (Server Admins, Mid & Entry level coders) and are paid below going rates maybe should not be part of the program. I like the idea of H1-Bs having a minimum salary, people who are skilled will still be able to come with no issues.
Instead of crying about how they need foreigners to fill the gap, what are these tech companies doing to support local career development such as through code camps and education? There are plenty of people with the brains to fill the requirements, just no will to invest in their training. Importing talented people because you refuse to educate your own people who have the talent but not the training, is not the answer.
Here in Nashville, charter schools set up in poor areas and keep coming the asses of public schools. I have friends who are illegal aliens, their kids go to a STEM charter that's tough as hell.
Quit getting your information from the NEA, democrats, and media matters. It's a big world out there.
Do you have ESP?
We do not produce enough technically qualified candidates in this country
Utter crap. Should I point this guy to the story about how Disney imported a bunch of H-1B workers... and then had their CURRENT EMPLOYEES train them? The H1-B either needs to be shuttered completely, or they need to require that the H-1B worker be paid 50% above the industry average. Take away the incentive to use them as cheap replacement labor.
According to ECON101, when demand outstrips supply, the price of a good goes up.
In this case, that means wages so I decided to take a look. According to the Federal Bureau of lagor statistics, STEM salaries grew at ~2% a year from 2013-2015 nationally. Meanwhile wages for "Computer Systems Design and Related Services" grew at ~2.3 a year. Inflation last year was 2.1% so if there is a STEM shortage, it must be very small.
In comparison if you are part of the ownership class, your NASDAQ index fund grew by 50%.
Anyone else have any good numbers to back up the anecdotes?
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
The problem is: most American kids don't want to study any "hard" subjects.
Part of the reason is that they're saddled with serious deficiencies in high school (which they've got to make up for when they get to university through ... you got it ... steep learning curves and hard work).
Part of the reason is that American culture doesn't sit well with concentration and intellectual endeavours. Students need "encouragement" to switch off their g*dforsaken cellphones during lectures and in class. Many American students have trouble sitting still in a library and concentrating on their studies for single hour without fiddling with their phones, peeking at social media sites, or having background music in their ears all the time. That isn't conducive to STEM subjects at all, although people with lots of talent manage to shrug off that particular handicap.
Last but not least, many students (correctly) perceive that taking a tough STEM subject only sets them for a future as a cubicle-dwelling engineer, to be outsourced, downsized and off-shored by other students they partied with at university (who went for an MBA and were then appointed as their manager). Given the high cost of failing the course (or even getting low to really mediocre grades) and the higher-than-average probability of having this happen to them, the decision _not_ to pursue a STEM subject has certain rational underpinnings.
I'm sure the AC who did the parent post has never walked around, say, the graduate studies area at MIT, Stanford, UCI, Caltech or wherever. Half the graduate students at least are foreign. Simply because they're bright, motivated, and hard-working. Block those from coming and you lose half the brainpower. And half your competitive advantage as a university.
So, no. It's a lot more complicated than Trumpian bellygood duckspeak of "American kids First" suggests.
American kids have all the opportunities they need for STEM studies. What they require is better career prospects, more appreciation, and mitigation of the handicaps imposed by their culture and the high schools they're sent to.
I'd love to see ANY education system in ANY country produce a machine learning expert, even with a 4 year program, let alone 18 months.
*Nobody* does this. Why? Cause it's not fucking possible. There have been so many incredible advances just in the past few years, that there is no way in hell you can train someone up from scratch, drop them in front of a workstation and have them start coding.
Combine that with, for example India, where their education system does it's absolute damndest to stifle anything resembling original thinking (which is kind of required in a field as dynamic as AI) or even basic critical thinking skills (which is obvious to anyone who has ever had to deal with outsourced developers), it becomes blindingly obvious that this is just more of the same horse shit companies have been spewing for years.
They don't want foreign people for their brains. They want them cause they're cheap. People complain about fake news? It's been around a whole lot longer than then token phrase that just magically appeared a year or two ago, and this is a perfect example of it. Bald-faced lies being parroted about in order to alter government policy for the benefit of big corporations, and to the detriment of the actual techies who have an increasingly more difficult time getting paid what they're worth.
Why would GoDaddy need H1B visa hires? I'd love to see the job descriptions for these, which apparently can't be fulfilled by existing American talent.
It has to be based on what the actual worker meat receives after the contract company skim...
Immigrants attending an American University for four to eight years are on track for naturalization and easily qualify for green cards. The H1-B people I've worked with mostly went to school oversees and came here for a job that has better benefits and pay than their home country. They are also mostly slaves to their jobs because they only get two weeks to find a new job before their visa expires if they're fired or laid off; that means deportation btw. The company gets a lower paid, more agreeable worker from H1-B visas.
The corporations aren't genuine at all about their reasons for using H1-Bs in a vast majority of cases, and they're all pretending that they use them only for the extraordinary cases where they genuinely couldn't find local talent. The key piece missing in the CEO's statement is: "not enough local talent [for the best price]."
Think globally but act within local variable scope.
>> (H1Bs) remain essential for American companies to hire the technical talent they need
I call bullshit. There are plenty of software developers out there. The thing thats actually biting all these company's hring managers asses is that they don't want to pay the going wage when they can hire someone from Pakistan with zero skill and a photoshopped degree certificate for minimum wage, only because they aren't also including the increased rework costs, deylaed releases and cost of losing customers because of bad software quality on their own department's budget statement.
Competition is one of evolutionary primary forces. Everyone will benefit in the long run.
I don't know I had a whole long tirade planned for this article. I've been outsouced or wrong-sourced so many times it's not funny. I've probably trained 20 replacements. One time they replaced me with 6 people (5 of them H1Bs and one Leader from the US). After 3 months they hired me back. Other times they just suffered on until someone else took up the work. The way I look at it, if you CAN'T find people here capable of doing the work, then you should be able to go outside the US to find someone who can. The problem is, these companies aren't looking for people who CAN do the job here. They don't even look here, they go straight to the H1B market. They don't want to pay IT people what's they are worth. Two additional points... H1B is a fancy way of saying "Indentured Servant", I don't know all the rules but I have had good friends who tried to move or get paid what they were worth, but the contract house they worked for could hold that H1B up and threaten them with going home if they asked for any more money. Did anyone realize that most "Executive Support" is done by Non-H1B workers? Everywhere I've worked if the executives (and sometimes everyone in accounting) have their own support group they are all from the US. Just saying... How come they get to have the expensive people come plug their new monitors in when their more important than the core business (building cars/airplanes/medical devices). This sucks, I became a ranter..
Trump's immigration ban is even worse than GoDaddy's CEO points out. Right now, people from 7 countries are seeing the US back out of its promise that they could come here and finish their degrees, or work here. These people invested years of their lives on their education and/or careers, only to fall afoul of an illogical whim of the current Pr*sident. If this type of crap continues, international students from all over the world will stop trusting that they can make a good life here. We'll stop getting the sharpest people immigrating, and those people will go elsewhere, and establish companies elsewhere. * -- popular vote loser
18 months is the average time to complete a Masters degree, of course that's AFTER a BA. It's also basically 4 semesters, so an Associates? What is he actually talking about? Is there actually programs here in the US that offer an 18 month course that promise to make someone a "machine learning scientist", whatever that is? I guess if you took 24 credit-hours per semester you COULD pull a BA out of 18 months.
So let me get this straight. You and your cancers upon humanity fire American Workers, and bring in more qualified Foreign workers. Than the presumably technically unqualified American Workers have to train the more technically qualified foreign workers in order to do the job the technically unqualifed workers were doing.
Sounds legit.
Seems like if you want foreign workers, badly enough, you pay them the same as you paid the American workers. I suspct the American workers will suddenly become more "technically qualified."
Alternate realities running rampant these days.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Canning H1Bs would be the best thing to happen to the US tech sector.
The canneries went out of business years ago.
My company has been bringing in lots of H1-B contractors and within 3 weeks send them home without paying for them. We have had so many totally unqualified people we now put in our contracts that if the individual can't be productive in 3 weeks we can send them back without paying for them! In the last 3 years we have ramped up out college recruiting and bringing in paid interns from colleges within the state. We end up hiring many of the interns. In the last 3 years we have hired 23 recent college grads and getting better quality out of them. There are PLENTY of qualified American IT workers! Get them right out of college and put a little time into them with training them.
The Truth is a Virus!!!
You misunderstand my question. While some employers may indeed feel this way, it does not really address the underlying point. Why should an employee's nation of origin make any employer feel any differently about how much (or how little) the employee is entitled to? If it shouldn't then it seems like H1B salary restrictions could end up obligating employers to pay some of their employees unfairly.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
if you like Fascism. Let me explain.
/. instead of solving the mysteries of the Universe) math and science are things you memorize. You need something simpler to learn your critical thinking skills. Why do you think your (thrice hated) English teacher spent so much time making you analyze old texts for meaning. That's how you teach critical thinking to somebody who isn't no naturally brilliant they learn it (and everything else) on their own.
Ever wonder why we teach humanities? Well, it's because we always have. And why have we always done that? Because way back in the day only rich people went to school. Poor folks worked the fields or died in wars. Now, why do rich people teach their kids humanities? Why would they bother with something that has so little obvious value?
Easy: Critical thinking. You _can_ teach critical thinking. And in fact a _lot_ of folks don't learn it on their own. Now, if you're really smart you can learn it while you learn math and science. For the rest of us (the ones wasting their time on
What does this have to do with Fascism? Well, what sort of numbskulls put a Fascist in charge? The kind that can't think critically. And what's the first thing a Fascist does? Kill all the critical thinkers. This, ladies and gentlemen, is why you're seeing a relentless assault on the humanities. Because it's at odds with the long term goals of our ruling class (betcha forgot we had one of those, seeing as they like to keep quiet these days so as not to get their heads lobbed off).
Congratulations, you fell for it hook, line, sinker.
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Lets see, can we target folks who have little or no representation. Both the major political parties are just looking for votes and not what the ground reality is. The folks who come here on H1 also end up paying the taxes here, which pays into social-security and medicare, which they may not have access to if they go back to their contries. So, we are asking for is taxation without any representation and benefits. Shame on us for doing this to people who are doing exactly what our ancestors did years ago.
I can tell you from personal experience, that in my last company we had such a tough time trying to just hire engineers. The visa status is more of an obstetrical which makes it harder to hire and retain folks. Most of the fresh grads want to go work for the Googles and the Facebooks of the world. Not in small or medium-sized companies, which are a majority of the companies. Finally, the company gave up and ended up opening an office in India, which means that not only the taxes are lost, but all the other jobs which are created employing the folks here (think site services, lunch-room folks, etc), are not created.
Academic success is first, second and third dependent on how much money your parents have, not how hard you work.
And a lot of right wing BS polluting it. For every charter that is better than a public school, two are worse.
Whatever you say, Old Economy Steve.
A university (or trade school) is there because most people are not self-starters with the resources to individually arrange what they need to learn about a topic.
Also:
Vocational training is there for people to learn how to follow standard operating procedures.
Academic study is there for people to gain the understanding so that they can write the standard operating procedures.
Example - a bit over twenty years ago despite being utter crap at welding I could design weld joints in a difficult material that the experienced welders could not. It wasn't that they were crap at their job it was just that it was a situation that diverged a lot from anything they had welded before and they hadn't studied the theory.
However if they had that trade experience and had cracked open a few books to learn the theory they would have been much better at it than I - but that's getting beyond the initial training/education thing.
Whilst I could have typed the text you suggest, I didn't because it's not what I mean and in no way equivalent to what I wrote.
If you'd just read my post, you might notice that I don't claim you'll jump into the top 1% as a result of a university education. I do claim that American culture works against success at university, which is true, that American students aren't very motivated to study "hard" (STEM) subjects, which is true, and that foreign students we get here are, which is also true.
Your post can in fact be used to illustrate the point. The blog in the Washington Post you refer to fails to support your claim in several ways.
First it refers to income percentiles, not absolute income. Whilst I would dearly love to claim otherwise, successfully completing one of our university courses does not in itself catapult you into the top income brackets. Being a lawyer, doctor, engineer, researcher doesn't (barring exceptions of course). Going into business or banking does that. The mere fact that you automatically associate success with income percentiles and pronounce upward mobility a failure based on what probability you have to enter the top percentiles illustrates my point. Chinese and Indian students consider becoming assistant professor at a reputable university, or researcher in industry, or a good consultant or generally a definite success. You apparently don't.
Second the graph you refer to only shows that the distribution of which income percentile you'll end up in, depending on how rich your parents were, is skewed. Whilst it does point to rich kids having an advantage, it also shows that 67% of college graduates end up in above-average (actually 40% plus percentile) income categories versus 49% of rich high-school dropouts. Score one for education I'd say.
In third place, have a look at Figure 11: social mobility matrix, college graduate in the Reeves and Sawhill (working) paper your blog reference is based on: https://www.bostonfed.org/ineq...
It shows the strong positive influence of getting a college degree. Note also that the figures those graphs display are based on simulation model outcomes (not observations !), but I'm prepared to accept them as valid for the moment (until proven otherwise).
Can we perhaps get back to the topic at hand now? The question was: do we need universities to "educate American kids first" (i.e. throw overseas students out)?
The answer remains: NO.
American kids have all the opportunities they need to go to university, but then (for various and sometimes quite valid reasons) decide not to. Relieving the disadvantage of an American education and participating in American culture might be a start however.
Which explains the number of successful charter schools in poor areas.
If H-1Bs posses experience/ability that is not available among U.S. citizens, why are they paid so much less than their inferior U.S. counterparts?
A superior product should command a superior price.
Unless, of course, the market is being manipulated?
H1B Indians are importing their uncivilized Caste system to USA https://qz.com/889524/the-us-s... http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
Casteism