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Apple Will Fight 'Right To Repair' Legislation (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Apple is planning to fight proposed electronics "Right to Repair" legislation being considered by the Nebraska state legislature, according to a source within the legislature who is familiar with the bill's path through the statehouse. The legislation would require Apple and other electronics manufacturers to sell repair parts to consumers and independent repair shops, and would require manufacturers to make diagnostic and service manuals available to the public. Nebraska is one of eight states that are considering right to repair bills; last month, Nebraska, Minnesota, New York, Massachusetts, Kansas, and Wyoming introduced legislation. Last week, lawmakers in Illinois and Tennessee officially introduced similar bills. According to the source, an Apple representative, staffer, or lobbyist will testify against the bill at a hearing in Lincoln on March 9. ATT will also argue against the bill, the source said. The source told me that at least one of the companies plans to say that consumers who repair their own phones could cause lithium batteries to catch fire. So far, Nebraska is the only state to schedule a hearing for its legislation.
consumers who repair their own phones could cause lithium batteries to catch fire.
yep, and changing the oil on my motorcycle could cause scalding hot oil to burn me, but well documented processes from the vendor generally limit this risk. Repairing the power regulator for my refrigerator could have caused a shock, however repair manuals clearly instructed me to unplug and de-energize the appliance.
the reason these bills are being fought incessantly is because modern consumer capitalism is predicated on brand consumption, not product consumption, and includes concessions to allow for the hedonic treadmill to spin freely. Sure, Apple may be forced to support older architectures that do not support the latest whizbang features but the real argument is that they would have to support the idea that the user owns the device instead of rents it until the next model comes out. being able to repair a cellphone or tablet, or even a macbook for that matter erodes the concept of the brand as an experience and slowly drags apple back to the earthly realm of hardware manufacturer and not a lifestyle. Owning a product, and not a brand in the 21st century is a slow death for any company.
Good people go to bed earlier.
IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad laptops have great, detailed repair manuals available and I don't ever remember somebody "cause(ing) lithium batteries to catch fire". More likely apple would rather screw customers over than allow them to save a buck by doing minor repairs themselves.
If you SELL me something, it's mine. You don't have to sell me documentation, you don't have to make replacement parts available, but there's only one reason to stop me from repairing it myself and that's so you can squeeze more money out of me.
Try renting instead of selling, then you can do whatever the hell you want, otherwise all you get to do is void any remaining warranty and refuse responsibility for damage caused by end-user repair.
It's about time consumers started lynching CEOs over shit like this.
that was too BB ez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Well if you bought a Samsung your battery might explode anyway, maybe it would be good if people were given the tools to fix things rather than assume anyone who tries will kill themselves.
Nice to know apple is trying to crush a bill meant to help farmers with their machinery just to squeeze a few more pennies out of their already proprietary hardware.
I am a fixer of things more than anyone else I've met in person, and I love fixing my phones computers etc. I've cobbled together several macs from spare parts and have one running that is 15 years old and still used daily.
I love to repair shit.
Replacing batteries in phones has just gotten more and more difficult because of how they are manufactured. I wouldn't trust anyone other than my self or my brother, a similar fixer, to attempt it. I just don't really see the point of the legislation, If you're in this deep you're going to fix it anyway. If you're just some joe blow, you're probably going to royally fuck it up.
what happens when phones get even slimmer and batteries are formed as part of the case? What about stiffer glue for rigidity? There are a thousand things that make this difficult for manufacture
Or at least include a free screwdriver with the hardware. Fucking jerks!
car to be dealership only service only even for lights / oil changes / tires.
An innovative technology company like Apple wants to increase the amount of technology garbage instead of going green and supporting the tinkering and repairing community?
That's so un-hipster! My beard is bristling enough to make my turtleneck feel tight!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
if they want to rent then landlord needs to repair it for free!
This is the last straw... the initial removal of headphone jack annoyed me enough... but this takes the cake.. I'm never buying another apple product.
Apple, once founded by tinkerers, is now fighting the tinkerers
Twinstiq, game news
... except fuck Apple. Their whole business model seems to be planned obsolescence and non-repairability. Hey, just buy a new one!
Not only did Radio Shack give me all the software information I could want, I bought the technical manual that had the schematics and how it all worked. I used that info, I learned CS from that info. I made a career out of that info.
Apple can suck a petrified mammoth dick over this move.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
I'm complaining that the devices are way too thin. They don't sit well in my hands and that is the main expanded complaint for it being too thin, but it also means a smaller battery. And with the screen on, the stupid phones have negative battery life, and by that I mean that when the phone is plugged in, it still needs to draw from the battery to fulfill its power needs.
When you pass it just make sure that if a non-first-party does the repairs, that the warranty is no longer in force, and the end-user agrees not to sue in the case of something bad happening.
I recently had a memory issue in an Apple MacBook Pro that was manufactured in early 2014. Before I brought it to the Apple Store, I removed the SSD, wiped it in a different computer, then put it back. The Apple "Genius" (Who didn't even go to College, and of course didn't have an Engineering degree) looked at me funny and, in an extremely over friendly way, made it subtly clear that people just don't do that with Apple products.
Apple charged more than $650.00 for a new logic board with installation. A single ram chip, new and in low quantity is a few dollars.
If it were a PC and used standard RAM, it would have cost less than $50.00 to replace all the memory and that would have been that.
Third party companies aren't provided the utilities to accurately figure out which chip is bad and needs replacement. Some specialist Apple repair shops can do the job, but that's totally without Apple's support. It also takes time to ship the computer there, have it fixed, and get it back.
Next time I'll just bite the bullet, send the computer to Louis Rossman and be done with it.
-D
We can't have the peasants who buy our stuff fixing it themselves or taking it to someone that might fix it for less than we'll charge!
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
If it actually goes through, Apple will just jack up the price of their replacement parts to the point that it'd be cheaper to buy a new computer.
They already charge obscene prices for components, it's just that the repair centres don't pay anything as long as they ship back the defective component. For example, when I bought my 2010 Mac Pro, it came with a defective LG burner. That part cost around $20 to buy, apart from the Apple firmware customizations, which made it a $750 drive. The repair centre didn't actually pay $750 for a replacement part- it didn't cost them anything, because they shipped the defective part back to Apple.
So Apple could quite easily double or quadruple the "price" of their replacement parts, and it wouldn't change anything service centre wise. It'd just fuck over the public, which is exactly what they'll do if they're forced to do anything.
PS: What is there to replace in a modern day Mac? Everything is soldered to the main board. I guess the iMacs have a separate PSU module and a small DC fan, but that's about it, and you still need to cut that horrible foam striping around the LCD panel just to pull out the monitor so you can replace stuff, and then you need a replacement foam kit just to seal it back up again (remember that time the LCD glass panel was held on by magnets and removable by suction cups?). It's like people want to repair computers that are purposefully built to be as unrepairable as possible, which doesn't make much sense...
I don't really get the reaction from slashdot commenters on this. Have you all lost that do it yourself spirit? People have been fixing things since tools were invented. There doesn't need to be some law forcing a company to make their product appropriately repairable. Who decides what's repairable? Do we need a new department with an dutifully selected committee of repairability? Why do so many people think it's appropriate to have legislation to codify their own priorities onto someone else? What happened to that can do spirit? Do you guys still live at home in your parents' basement?
Try putting yourself in Apple's shoes. How about thinking through the unintended consequences? The beauty of this thing we have called freedom (or what's left of it) is that you can go buy a different phone. I think you can even buy modular phones now if those guys haven't gone out of business yet from lack of sales. For Pete's sake, think of what would happen if everyone who felt that their favorite widget was perpetrating some moral ill upon society and got some law passed. Mechanized camels everywhere!
Finally, mind your own business. What makes people think they can step in the middle of two private parties exchanging simple goods for money. If I want to buy some stupid glued together false self-esteem booster like a jewel encrusted cell phone, why do you get to say I can't buy that anymore because it's too hard for you to repair it.
How about worrying about things that really matter. Think about the lead pipes and collapsing dams. Bigger fish to fry.
Grow up people!
That's why they have crappy, short warranties. Complete with clauses that say that they can find you at fault for most things if they see fit. Keeping the device past the warranty time means that you've extended your stay over what they want you to rent it for, so they stop fixing it and wait for you to pay your rent (re: buy another device) again.
something it is then mine not theres anymore I am free to do anything I want whit anything I own.
If they want to retain any ownership they have to rent the device not sell them.
Enjoy being a slave, I guess..
If a third-party does a repair, an that repair causes a problem, then it is the responsibility of the person who did the repair.
But that doesn't absolve the manufacturer of their responsibility to fix manufacturing and design flaws not related to the repair, for the working life of the product.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
If you don't like Apple's repair policy, buy your phones from somebody else. And (optionally) make Apple know the reason you did so.
Don't sit back and say "Apple's CEO needs to be put in jail because the company has such-and-such policies". Unlike the local cable and utility companies, Apple is NOT a monopoly. Vote with your feet.
I remember Crapple making it so expensive to repair your phone that it was cheaper to upgrade. Their thoughts.... we'll sell more phones! Now people are fixing their own and Crapple is crying.
Linux is on more devices than Windows or MacOS, so you can suck it. Get yourself a Chromebook. It's time.
Just "software upgrade" the device into uselessness, like Google did with my Nexus 7. No hardware repair necessary.
Yeah, because we want to retain the legacy Fahnestock clips or Binding Posts for the headphone connection.
And I demand to use my vintage liquid microphone - none of these new fangled carbon pellet mics for me.
However, I do agree that there is a tendency to go with the new gee-whiz connector. Maybe 10 years would be a better design cycle? The 1/8" mini phone plug has done good duty for many years.
Seriously people, why do you continue to buy Apple products when you know that they're ripping you off, abusing you and generally treating you like crap? Apple is the modern version of the record store clerk who sneered at you and eyed your purchases with contempt before snatching your money, rounding the change down to the nearest dollar and sending you on your way with a generous helping of disgust because they were cool and you were the wannabe to their hipster.
One of the compelling reasons to force big manufacturers would be to minimize all the electronic junk that is being produced. There is a collective responsibility towards environment. There are other repair shops who would do the job (for a price), but apple doesn't even provide original parts.
Apple has clearly announced that their product is dangerous, so the TSA should ban them.
I hope a legislator at one of these state legislators makes this point if an Apple employee is stupid enough to raise this.
The cognitive dissonance displayed by the religious to justify something that I have witnessed during my life pales against that displayed by Apple fans in these comments justifying that no-one should ever be allowed to repair an iPhone.
repair their own phones could cause lithium batteries to catch fire
I shouldn't need to "repair" battery. I should be able to flip the back cover, remove the old battery and insert a new one. How is it that Apple, self professed masters of design cannot enable this simple task?
The answer is they could and easily but they seal the battery into the device as a cynical ploy to build obsolescence into their devices. Other manufactures seal the battery in too (following Apple's lead). It should not be acceptable and frankly I wonder why more eco conscious jurisdictions (e.g. the EU) permit them to do it. Phones should be serviceable by design and certain elements like batteries should be serviceable with a minimum of effort.
For many electronics self repair or even professional repair is rather difficult with a lot of electronics. After years of having easy replaceable batteries in notebooks many are now internally accessed and some are even glued into place. I just bought a HP notebook that has a internally mounted battery. Good luck when that kind of battery gets recalled. Same with smartphones as we have seen with Samsung, and its dreaded self destruction mess. Samsung had no choice but to recall the entire phone because swapping batteries was not a option. Almost all electronics are designed to be throw away's and any self repair is going to be a butcher of a job of which most won't be successful. The parts costs at the very least won't justify the repair in the first place.
I hope Apple will prevail and prevent this bullshit to become a law. Apart from general problem with forcing actual private company to produce something it doesn't want to produce which will inevitably damage consumers in some way how do you want to enforce it?
Will there be price controls on spare parts?
And how do you even judge whether the product is 'reparable'? Will there be some committee that would have to approve that or how do you enforce it otherwise?
Consumer electronics market is one of the few where government didn't manage to f*** things up too much because it didn't interfere. I guess it's time to change it we had it too good.
...this should be nationwide, not just one state. But with Trump in office, good luck on that, businesses have free rein...
I'm still here after all these decades, and I'm still here saying fuck Apple!
...this is it. Apple can go suck a pus covered AIDS and syphillys infected dick
Rather than force Apple to provide this, I'd love to see companies like Haynes and Chiltons get into the phone repair manual business. Their manuals for automotive repair have always been based on a complete tear-down and rebuild, rather than the manufacturer giving them any instructions, and they could do the same for phones. This would also create a demand for OEM parts to use, the tools for performing the repairs, and places to sell them. This free market solution would create a lot of jobs, and just like with cars, people would still buy new phones every few years, when it grows tiresome to keep repairing their existing one. Unfortunately, corporations care nothing for the free market, except for whichever aspect of it contributes to their bottom line on whichever given day. They will just continue to use their money to fight for or against laws, as they benefit or threaten them, without any regard to right and wrong, or consistency.
I fix laptops and phones a lot (component level), and I have to say, at least with Apple most of their gear is still at least able to be serviced once you get a hold of the "not permitted" schematics and boardview files ( and watching a lot of Louis Rossmann helps too ).
PC laptops and worse, desktop motherboards, are like hens teeth at the best of times for locating usable schematics / boardviews. Now the market is starting to spit out "Repair guides" which are 75dpi screen shots squashed to a new aspect ratio and barely legible fonts writing over the top of pixelated chunks that include 3 or 4 pins many times. It can *seem* like there's a lot of available schems/boardviews for PC gear, but it's proportionally far lacking compared to what you can source for the Apple gear.
Truly, if you're despising Apple over this, you're going to really want to in to overdrive over the PC side of things.
Hoping that Louis Rossmann and iPadRehab give it a good shot, and if nothing else get an opening to negotiate with manufacturers to make it legal to purchase/acquire schems/boardviews. Likely won't happen, for every laptop saved today that's one less being purchased tomorrow.
... and was eventually proven false.
davecb@spamcop.net
Any company whose continued growth, (or possibly even its continued existence), depends on artificial scarcity, is going to fight like hell to maintain the scarcity. Those who are being pillaged by the artificial scarcity, should do their best to tear it down.
To decide which of these two sides you should support, ask yourself which you care about more - a sustainable Earth with sufficient natural resources and a hospitable-enough climate to foster future generations, or the profits of a short-term-gain-for-long-term-pain corporatocracy run by parasitic Ponzi scheme addicts? And no, 'both of the above' isn't an option.
Apple is coming down firmly on the side of 'sell you lots of shiny now and make all our heirs pay for it'. Fuck Apple.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
I agree, except with the 'make big bucks on repairs' thing.
I get the impression they aren't interested in repairs at all. Not by them and sure as hell not (gasp) by yourself!
Just buy the latest new iPhone already. And yes if Apple tells you you need to buy a new headset for that, you do that too!
another one to ignore
Posting AC to protect my identity. I teach graphic arts at the college level, and have been an Apple user for decades.
I'm also in a position to make decisions about what what hardware and software my organization buys, and what we suggest that our students purchase.
Apple is not doing themselves any favors here.
In addition to being largely maintenance-friendly by design, Thinkpads also come with Hardware Maintenance Manuals - something that Apple fears being in the hands of commoners.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
"at least one of the companies plans to say that consumers who repair their own phones could cause lithium batteries to catch fire." Yeah okay... explain Samsung's problem's in brand new phones then? What about changing the batteries in my smoke alarm? It happened a few years ago to me... put in a brand new 9 volt alkaline ... about 3 hours later I needed a new smoke alarm because it was smoldering. Any battery can go into thermal run away and vent. Lithium's just do it with spectacular fashion usually.
There was a similar case of a big company claiming that allowing users too much power would be very destructive. Guess what? They were totally wrong.
Up to the early 1980s, AT&T had a telephone monopoly, including owning the wires and phones in your house. You were legally required to use an AT&T repairman to add a new phone outlet in your house. When AT&T's monopoly was broken up, they were required to let customers own their own wiring and phones. The company predicted that customers were incompetents who would attach defective devices that would destroy the phone system.
Of course, AT&T is the monopoly that tried to block a company from selling a plastic and cardboard cone that would attach to your phone's microphone, which you could speak into with less interference. It's the hush-a-phone case.
Apple is just the latest company trying to prevent competition.
A lot of this right to repair may have more to do with tractors, then cell phones. Nebraska and some of the other states here are big agriculture states. John Deere tractors are now so high tech you practically have to have the dealer work on it. The are semi self operating with computer, GPS and everything else. I heard about a farmer who knocked the weather vane of his planter putting it away. Yes the tractor compensates for wind speed also. Deere has restricted the knowledge and parts to repair their equipment. Some farmer who has to wait on the dealer to show up to make a simple fix, can lose a lot money waiting on idle equipment. And time is money. Farmers want or need to be able to make their own repairs and no have to wait. So its more than just computers in this right to repairs.
I don't want to play the devil's advocate here, but to AT&T's defense, the POTS was an analog system, and back then, there were no clearly defined interfaces between CPE (customer premises equipment) and "the network". If a customer screwed up the local loop in some really bad way (the system was really robust, it could take a lot of abuse, but it was not indestructible), he could easily damage a certain part of the attached parts up to and including the switch, and that could be costly. And in general, playing around in an analog network where everyone has to play by the rules is a tricky business better left to people who are at least a little bit trained in it. Of course, later things changed considerably, and there was a loose coupling and clear interfaces between CPE and the rest of the network, so customers were free to fool around with their equipment and house wiring as much as they desired without risking to take down other customers with them.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
This is getting a little far from Apple perhaps but it's fun to cite these cases of big companies throwing their weight around.
AT&T also tried to prevent the distribution by other companies of free covers for their phone books. They owned the phone book they'd given you. You did not have the right to put someone else's cover on it to protect it.
AT&T also tried to prevent a rancher from making an audio connection (phone speaker put next to radio microphone etc) from his phone to a radio so the rancher could make calls while driving around his ranch. That's the Carterfone case.
Marconi licensed, not sold, his radios to ships like the Titanic. The license prohibited communicating with non-Marconi radios. That lasted until WW1, when the US Navy said, stop that.
GE licensed the vacuum tubes in car battery chargers. The customer was prohibited from using the tube in a radio.
Former Apple laptop tech here.
For every 1 of you who knows how to repair a computer there are 5-10 fools who break it trying to fix it. Believe it. Those of you've worked at a repair shop know what I'm talking about.
We also fixed Windows PCs. Same ratio of about 90% clueless to 10% savvy.
Yes, many of the clueless were self-described "power users." Never seen a multimeter in their life.