Windows 10 Is Just 'A Vehicle For Advertisements', Argues Tech Columnist (betanews.com)

A new editorial by BetaNews columnist Mark Wilson argues that Windows 10 isn't an operating system -- it's "a vehicle for ads". An anonymous reader quotes their report: They appear in the Start menu, in the taskbar, in the Action Center, in Explorer, in the Ink Workspace, on the Lock Screen, in the Share tool, in the Windows Store and even in File Explorer.

Microsoft has lost its grip on what is acceptable, and even goes as far as pretending that these ads serve users more than the company -- "these are suggestions", "this is a promoted app", "we thought you'd like to know that Edge uses less battery than Chrome", "playable ads let you try out apps without installing". But if we're honest, the company is doing nothing more than abusing its position, using Windows 10 to promote its own tools and services, or those with which it has marketing arrangements.
The article suggests ads are part of the hidden price tag for the free downloads of Windows 10 that Microsoft offered last year (along with the telemetry and other user-tracking features). Their article has already received 357 comments, and concludes that the prevalence of ads in Windows 10 is "indefensible".

Comments

Google envy

[ooloorie]

A new editorial by BetaNews columnist Mark Wilson argues that Windows 10 isn't an operating system -- it's "a vehicle for ads".

Sounds like Google envy to me.

On the other hand, I don't actually recall seeing a lot of ads in my Windows 10 installation. Maybe Mark Wilson is just installing the wrong kind of software?

Re:Google envy

[MatthiasF]

I have not seen many ads either. Maybe one ad for Onedrive and one for Edge, over two years.

Maybe it's the Home edition displaying a lot of ads? I'm running Pro.

Re:Google envy

[fazig]

I run Windows 10 on my notebook. First of all, I do not like it very much, but I can second that statement. At least if you have a Windows 10 Pro, turn off all the information sharing through the group manager, turn off Cortana and probably most importantly use Classic Shell there's practically now advertising.

Although I've seen popups that urge people to use Edge over Chrome of Firefox on Windows 10 machines of other people.

Re:Google envy

[Threni]

They certainly dropped their Scroogled campaign just in time, didn't they!

Re:Google envy

[Dracos]

Not just Google envy: everyone envy.

Google has Android and all their consumer products. Apple has their vertically integrated fandom. Every social media platform is their own thing.

What do all those things have in common that MS has never been able to cultivate on their own? User data. MS decided to capture it by buying Skype and LinkedIn, both highly strategic because MS only understands business customers: those buys made sense to MS. What they don't understand, never have, and likely never will, is the end user. To capture that data, the only option they saw was to leverage their flagship product: Windows.

Wait, this sounds familiar...

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just ignorance if you think turning off those settings visible to you stops Windows from Spying on you.

Re:Google envy

[Humbubba]

Who needs criminals hacking into the box when you got Microsoft? Seriously, with ads I get, it's obvious Windows has 'Googled' where I go - even my personal data too. Microsoft has turned control over to their sales department. And now, I'm beginning to I suspect I'm an unwitting beta tester for their updates. I'm not their customer, I'm their victim.

Re:Google envy

[fazig]

Why would I think that?
There's huge and ugly text box when you set the telemetry value in gpedit, stating that you can't really turn telemetry off. It even states that setting it to 0 won't work on non Enterprise machines.

All those things including Classic Shell only hide some the issues, they don't fix them.

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. It's a two-position radio button, with the overall label "Spying Theme" and the two choices "Shameless" and "Discreet".

Re:Google envy

[TheRaven64]

And it's a stupid business model. Microsoft could have made a big deal over the fact that you pay for Microsoft products and so you're their customer, not their product. They could have used Azure for hosting, but allowed you to run the exact same server components on your own Windows Server machine or private cloud. They could have spent a big chunk of their ad budget on pointing out how much everyone knows about you from using free services. Instead, they decided to try to turn the company into a crappy copy of Google.

Re:Google envy

[Opportunist]

Reminds me of the stupidity machine in Zak McKracken.

Re:Google envy

[Opportunist]

At this point, basically you're their hostage. And until the critical mass of non-Windows programs that can replace their Windows counterparts, which would allow you to leave Windows for a superior OS, has not been reached, you will remain in that position.

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

I got one in Windows Explorer for Office 365 Cloud storage... the best part is I already have an Office 365 subscription. So they literally gave me an ad telling me tro buy something I already had.

Re:Google envy

[Zocalo]

Maybe it's down to whether or not you signed up to (AKA, "didn't opt out of") the "Customer Experience Improvement Programme" or not. I mean, seriously, even the name reeks of something cooked up by a marketing weasel somewhere and, let's face it, what marketing droid doesn't see selling more product as "improving the customer experience" (AKA, "meeting my targets and getting my bonus")?

Microsoft is run by marketing flacks, not by developers. It's been that way since Bill Gates handed over the reins. Why do people still act surprised when they behave like a shady marketing department?

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen the onedrive ad, which in my mind is inexcusable. Other than that, it's just been the "promoted apps" in the start menu which I never really see as I rarely use the start menu. That's still annoying, but not as bad as it doesn't actually stop you from doing what you're doing, but the onedrive ad requiring me to dismiss it before I can browse for files is inexcusable.

Re:Google envy

[nomadic]

Microsoft routinely brings in more than $10 billion NET revenue a year. Whatever they're doing, it's working fine.

Re: Google envy

[guruevi]

I installed Windows 10 Pro the other day for testing - the Start menu is filled with ads - Candy Crush, Facebook, Minecraft, Bing, Office265 just to name a few and those apps aren't even installed, they take you to the ad-riddled package manager where you can pay for more ad-enabled things. When you start Internet Explorer you're taken to an ad about IE vs Chrome and Firefox. OneDrive pops up at every file operation "this would be easy with OneDrive" "share with your friends through OneDrive"

Re:Google envy

[drinkypoo]

Sounds like Google envy to me.
On the other hand, I don't actually recall seeing a lot of ads in my Windows 10 installation.

Between uBlock Origin and NoScript, I don't see ads on Google services, either. Not even Youtube, usually. Occasionally they slip a video ad in, and I skip it in five seconds, but I've gone to their site. It's not something that just popped up on my PC while I was doing stuff.

Re:Google envy

[Ol Olsoc]

Microsoft routinely brings in more than $10 billion NET revenue a year. Whatever they're doing, it's working fine.

So do Drug cartels. You made your point.

Re: Google envy

[Ol Olsoc]

I installed Windows 10 Pro the other day for testing - the Start menu is filled with ads - Candy Crush, Facebook, Minecraft, Bing, Office265 just to name a few and those apps aren't even installed, they take you to the ad-riddled package manager where you can pay for more ad-enabled things. When you start Internet Explorer you're taken to an ad about IE vs Chrome and Firefox. OneDrive pops up at every file operation "this would be easy with OneDrive" "share with your friends through OneDrive"

Right, but you wouldn't have that user experience with a lesser Operating system.

Re: Google envy

[WheezyJoe]

When you start Internet Explorer you're taken to an ad about IE vs Chrome and Firefox.

I assume you mean Edge, not IE, and ALL the browsers out there hit you with pages re: how they're better than every other browser out there. It's been that way for years. Choose a browser as your default and stick with it, and this problem will go away.

but File Explorer and the Start menu is another thing entirely. Live Tiles in particular have been click-bait advert vehicles since their conception. You can manually remove them all, but it's quicker to simply install ClassicShell and you'll never have to see them again. I've long accepted that life with Windows means doing a lot of tweaking before it acts right. It's not worthwhile bitching how the market-drones at Microsoft constantly try to squeeze another dollar out of your desktop, because they always will... if a different OS is not a viable alternative to you, then invest the time to defeat or suppress the marketing stuff and move on.

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the Classic Shell link - finally it looks like I can get the old Windows 7 Explorer dialog back in Windows 10!

Re:Google envy

[mysticgoat]

So basically for Microsoft in this day and age, the end user is not the customer? The end user is a commodity that Microsoft sells to other corporations who are the customers?

Gee, that sounds familiar. I left Microsoft for Linux in 1999 because of it. I have never looked back.

--"Windows is not the answer. Windows is the question. The answer is 'No'." As true now as it was then.

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just ignorance if you think that someone who says that they are "not seeing ads" automatically believes that their data is private.

Re:Google envy

[penandpaper]

I tried to switching to Linux but went back to windows on my main machine because gaming. If I spend money on the latest graphics card I want to be able to use all the new features. With Linux, I always had to fiddle to get things to work, which is fun and dandy sometimes but after work I just want to play a game that runs/looks well with minimal fiddling.

Many of the Linux drivers were a generation or two behind so they couldn't take advantage of a lot of new feature. I like Linux, still use it on my secondary machine but there is still one dominate OS for gaming and it isn't Linux. I am no more a hostage to windows than a victim of Linux being perpetually behind the times.

OpenGL had a hiatus of development and support until recently (few years). The new stuff is good and look forward to more support but too many games I play would be unplayable. Especially when I want the most performance out of my hardware (looking at you wine).

Re:Google envy

[BronsCon]

IMO it's better than Apple just defaulting to storing shit in iCloud. It's the one ad MS has popped on my screen that I actually appreciated, as it served as a reminder to turn that shit off.

How many people do you think don't realize Apple is storing all their documents in the cloud until they go to save something and can't because the "free" 5GB they didn't even realize they were using is full? It's a great scam by Apple because, for most people, it's faster to sign up to pay them for more cloud storage than it is to move all those files back onto the local system; so, since they're trying to got something done at that moment, that's what they do.

Microsoft at least lets you opt into that.

Re:Google envy

[dave562]

I was about to say the same thing. I use Win10 Enterprise at work at Win10 Professional (free upgrade from Win7) at home. Work obviously does not have any ads. I must be desensitized to ads on the home version because I do not have the same level of 'hatred' for them that all of the stories that I have seen over the last year lead me to believe that I should.

The only thing that irks me about Win10 is that it seems to keep asking me if I want to continue using my non-MS programs as the default. For example, I use VLC. I ran the VLC function to associate all media types with VLC. Yet every time I open a 'new' media type that I haven't opened previously, Windows asks me if I want to continue using VLC.

I think that there might be some random ads or what not that pop up on the tiles when I click the Start button, but I do not really pay attention to them.

Where else in the OS am I supposed to be seeing these ads that everyone seems to hate so much?

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

The correct way to squash telemetry is at the DNS level. The host names are published. The API calls don't respect the hosts file but they respect whatever the DNS server says, even if it's a filtering forwarder on 127.0.0.1. So yeah, a filtering DNS resolver can absolutely squash telemetry.

Re:Google envy

[nuckfuts]

... I've seen popups that urge people to use Edge over Chrome of Firefox on Windows 10 machines of other people.

I wish I had a dime for every goddamned popup I've had to dismiss nagging me to install Chrome, both on my Windows machines and my iPhone. It seems every time you hit a Google site with a user agent other than Chrome you get nagged.

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

With Linux, I always had to fiddle to get things to work

Pretty much my experience. I've come down to Linux in the server room, Mac on the desktop and a Windows VM for the oddball stuff that I might use once a month or so. If I feel the need to do any serious gaming. I think I have a Winders machine in the closet that I used to play Doom4 when it came out. Might have to dig it back out for Mass Effect...

Re:Google envy

[Gr8Apes]

It's quite clear when you first bring up the system or create a new user - "Enter your iCloud account" for various... including backups, IIRC. I always skip that one, precisely because I don't want that crap configured that way.

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they referring to 'Live Tiles' in the Store app? Because aside from that, I don't recall seeing many ads. I do see ads in certain apps, but that's something that's been there. I run the Windows 10 Bing edition, where I would expect the most ads, since this OS comes preinstalled and free.

I installed Classic Shell so that my thing looks like Windows 7, but even when going Metro, I still don't see ads. On the browser thing, every time I open an account, the first time I select my preferred browser (I have Chrome in some places, Pale Moon in a couple and even Edge in one) and set it, ignoring their claim that Edge is the best browser for Windows 10. Oh, and I never use Cortana, even though I have never anywhere bothered to disable it

Re:Google envy

[BronsCon]

It's quite clear to you and me, because we read things. Have you ever worked IT support? If you had, you'd know how often people just toss their credentials into any pair of text fields labeled "Username" and "Password" without giving it a second thought.

I typically do sign in, because I want to be able to drop certain things into iCloud for sharing purposes; then, I immediately configure it to not automatically do that for me.

Re: Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the most blatant ones. The others are slightly more subtle, asking if you'd like to sign up, create an account for or swap to using. However, they're all adverts, that shouldn't even be in question. The question is why are so many people putting up with it, but far more importantly why accept an OS that blatantly states itself to be spyware? (As an aside, its likely to be breaking any number of EU laws, and an investigation is ongoing)

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

IMO it's better than Apple just defaulting to storing shit in iCloud. It's the one ad MS has popped on my screen that I actually appreciated, as it served as a reminder to turn that shit off. How many people do you think don't realize Apple is storing all their documents in the cloud until they go to save something and can't because the "free" 5GB they didn't even realize they were using is full? It's a great scam by Apple because, for most people, it's faster to sign up to pay them for more cloud storage than it is to move all those files back onto the local system; so, since they're trying to got something done at that moment, that's what they do. Microsoft at least lets you opt into that.

Funny, I just dismiss the THREE annoying dialogs on Startup (yes, they ARE annoying!) that want me to log-into iCloud. Nothing stored in iCloud. Problem solved! Occasionally, another login will popup, but I dismiss that one as well.

If I were less lazy, I would just do this.

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

All my machines bar one run Linux. If I could get Reaper and my collection of VSTs working on Linux I'd drop my last Windows install in a heartbeat. It's actually an XP machine too as I have two *very good* pro MIDI interfaces that only have drivers for XP.

Windows 10 is a clusterfuck of spyware and Microsoft deserve to die with it.

Re:Google envy

[BronsCon]

You get those because you previously set up one or more services which use iCloud and they no longer have valid credentials stored. The average user doesn't encounter that scenario except when they change their iCloud password from another system; if you change it locally, locally stored credentials are automatically updated. That is to say: the average user, having only a single Mac, will never encounter this.

And when we talk about people who don't realize they're saving shit to iCloud, we're talking about stunningly average users.

Re: Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill Gates was a marketing douchebag too. He bought DOS from someone else for very little, and then licensed it to everyone, stole windows from Xerox (of course so did apple), and from that point kept harping on businesses to install a new version every few years. He was never any more a developer than Steve Jobs was. Successful businesses aren't run by developers, they're run by "business people" like marketing guys, unfortunately.

Re: Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Just right click the start menu. It's all there, without the absurd lag in classic start. Ugh, terrible software. Sad.

I've actually seen it brick a computer once. Kinda bricked but not really, but it definitely fucked his computer right off. So, guy comes in says screen is flickering. Software guy calls me over and asks me wtf is going on, cuz he hasn't seen this before. So what happens is you log in, you drop to desktop, and then CS finally loads... and crashes. And then loads... and crashes. So we figure out that it's totally classic start failing to start up. I ace over to Task Manager and stop it from autostarting. I reboot and... it's still autostarting. If you tricked it into the 8 start menu, it would hang and you couldn't do anything but watch the entire start menu reload aevery couple seconds. I remembered I could neuter it from external regedit but it wasnt worth the time. Software guy grabbed the data and reinstalled. I think. Because we couldn't get the damned thing to boot USB either, no optical drive. Honestly I think he sold the guy a new computer lol

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

Vlmcsd on github will make it enterprise.

Considering M$' practices, I only see legal qualms but no moral ones (at least as far as "IP rights" go).

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

there are ads, but the ads are for MS apps from the store unless you turn off the live tiles - probably he is getting it from whatever other live tiles he has on....

Re:Google envy

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw too many. My computer slowed down, my network usage up, even when I wasn't doing anything. I reset the computer to 8.1; I could see the con game.

Re:Google envy

[toddestan]

Well, the worst is all the drive-by installs Google tries to do. I don't know how many times I've had to uncheck some obscure checkbox to keep Google's spyware off of my Windows computers.

NVIDIA

[Anonymous Coward]

Try installing NVIDIA drivers on any version of Windows, and you'll be treated to a slide show of advertisements.

Re:NVIDIA

[Bigbutt]

I have two nVidia cards and regularly upgrade my drivers but don't see any advertising either. Same with general Windows 10 mucking about. I've been spending a lot more time on my system over the past 3 months as well and no ads.

I did buy Windows 10 Pro vs go with the downloaded version as I was building a new system and didn't upgrade my prior systems (still on 7). Maybe that has something to do with it?

[John]

Re:NVIDIA

[FirstNoel]

I haven't seen any Nvidia driver install adds with mine as well. However I did just start seeing One-drive upgrade adds in my File Explorer... which I immediately disabled. Under the File/directory options checkboxes, there's one there for Sync service notifications.

But that was the only place I've seen them to date.

Re:NVIDIA

[ScienceofSpock]

I believe you are referring to the Geforce Experience software. It's optional, though it's installed by default.

My biggest complaint is that that software doesn't even let you check for updated drivers without requiring you to register and be logged in. After installation when I built my new computer, I went to check for updates and was hit with the login screen, I immediately uninstalled it. The Nvidia Control Panel is all I need.

The AMD Radeon Crimson software is the same type of crap. Advertising and telemetry wrapper masquerading as a... I'm not even sure what they're supposed to be. Gaming news?

Re:NVIDIA

[sabbede]

It's because you have the Pro version. It's like TV - pay for HBO or get NBC in exchange for ads.

I didn't know you could avoid seeing ads while upgrading Nvidia drivers, but I've been updating through GeForce Experience for a while. No such frontend for AMD drivers, and those are choc full of ads too.

Re:NVIDIA

[sabbede]

I was so pissed off when GFE demanded a signin. Half because I wanted to see how it set a game (I forget which), half because I couldn't remember or find my nvidia creds, and half because it was incredibly rude and annoying. So annoying that I was 150% fed up with it.

That said, driver installs are where I'm most willing to be shown ads. Beats the hell out of just watching a progress bar.

Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

TFA is false and absurd! Windows 10 is not 'just' a vehicle for advertisements.

It also spies on you.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there advertisements on the internet which do not spy on you?

Re: Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny but this isn't the first windows version to feature ads. Anybody here remember windows 98? It featured this forced integration with IE 4, this active desktop thingie with channels that advertised Disney and some other things without even needing an Internet connection. But don't worry if you don't have Internet, the Microsoft network was featured abundantly on the desktop, in the start menu, and whenever you tried to do anything Internet without dialing up first. They have been wanting to do this for a long time. The other big plans they had back then was the idea of a monthly subscription for software. Annual subscriptions are a new norm in the enterprise and office 365 is all too glad to charge you on a continuing basis. The technology is just mature enough for this now.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

It was also never "free". It cost users a perfectly usable Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 OS.

There were people warning about how Microsoft would quickly start tossing advertisements everywhere. I'm surprised people didn't believe them. Especially with how deceptive and dishonest they were in their tactics with trying to force everyone onto Windows 10 with their "Free upgrade" for a year. (Resetting user defined system settings, removing cancel buttons on the install, changing the meanings of the cancel button on the install to be a silent "sure install it later when I'm not looking", Bundling the telemetry with other, actually important, updates, etc.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you go to that advertisement, you made a choice to do that.
If it is buried deep in your operating system without a way to turn it off, you do not have a choice at all.
I personally think the latter is worst. Don't you agree?

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 spies on you and hogs an inordinate amount of CPU power, memory, etc., to do little if indeed ANYTHING AT ALL more than Windows 95 did. Every version since has introduced basically minor improvements, added support for new peripherals, such as USB, USB 2, USB 3, Firewire, etc., but none of that really NECESSITATED a new version of Windows. They just acted as if they did so that they could make you pay for the same shit over and over again, including a whole new set of critical vulnerabilities to hacking, and a whole zoo of malware requiring constant updating and subscriptions to other companies' software to correct their own mistakes, often at increased expense to you.

So why would anyone use it? Good question. Microsoft SUCKS, as does all their shit. Fuck 'em.

Re:Not true!

[rakslice]

You're right it's a brain-wash! And it's good for your hair, too!

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

Choice huh? Did you make a choice to be tracked by ad networks while browsing slashdot? Because unless you are using Firefox with an adblocker you are being tracked right now (and Firefox is soon moving to webextensions which will kill true adblocking just like Chrome).

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

You should be forced to exclusively use Windows 95 computers for a month, we'll see if you still say no progress has been made.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

The poster is right, in terms of an OS - just let me launch programs and get on with my work, there is no difference between W95 and W10.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there advertisements on the internet which do not spy on you?

There are degrees in hell. A web forum I use have prominent ad banners on the pages. All (from what I can see) is served from their own server as static html so there aren't any additional third party spying.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is "freemium" at best. It's a crippled demonstration version of an operating system.

Re: Not true!

[nitehawk214]

Unless the ads are served from your server, they are spying. You don't need JavaScript to spy.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep - You can use add blocking in a browser.
Where is add blocking in the Windows OS?

The one is a program you can choose to use on top of your OS, the other is the OS itself.
So - You can choose to been tracked when using a browser, but you have no choice at all when using a OS that is tracking you without you be able to shut that down. A BIG difference in my opinion.

Re:Not true!

[cjjjer]

Apparently you fail to understand how http works on the internet....

Re:Not true!

[gweihir]

One could argue that these are two aspects of the same thing, but as MS undoubtedly also works with law-enforcement offering them no or very little resistance, you have a point.

Re: Not true!

[omnichad]

I sure remember. I had 32MB of RAM at that time and Active Desktop used half of it when it was enabled.

Re:Not true!

[omnichad]

none of that really NECESSITATED a new version of Windows

You're right....if they were in the business of doing things for free. Generally people expect to be paid for their work.

Windows 95 was DOS-based. The move to an NT-based OS was one of the biggest improvements in consumer OS history. Do you not remember how often Windows 95/98/ME crashed? Even if it's the fault of hardware drivers, the OS can and should be hardened against that.

Re: Not true!

[BronsCon]

What he describes provides no more information than the HTTP transfer of the page the ads are displayed on; at best, it tells them "we displayed this ad". If you're going to be paranoid enough to call that "spying", you have to call all HTTP requests which might be logged (e.g. all of them) "spying" as well.

Re:Not true!

[Anonymous Coward]

The spying is part of the vehicle for advertisements.

Re:Not true!

[sabbede]

Seems people have a choice - pay with their cash or pay with their eyes and info. I paid cash and turned off the eyes and info options.

Re:Not true!

[knorthern knight]

I remember work. (I'm retired now). Windows 98 SE was the best. It flew in 32 megs of RAM, and it worked just fine. The only problem was when a machine died and I inherited a machine that had been used by a co-op student. I knew how to get rid if standard stuff like RealPlayer, etc. But there was so much crap (toolbars, email emoticons, etc) installed by the student that I gave up and asked IT to blow away the OS, and give me a fresh install. After that it ran fine again.

Google?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought Android was that vehicle along with the search engine and GMail.

Re:Google?

[Anonymous Coward]

Those things are not mutually exclusive.

Re:Google?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really - Try to see the difference between:
A: A free operating system, that is been payed back by advertisement (return of investment).
B: A non-free operating system that is already payed for, that pushes advertisements into your face nevertheless.

Don't you agree that the latter is more shady than the first?
And NO - Windows 10 is NOT free, because I have to pay for it.
So - In fact I have to pay to get advertisement presented to me.
Weird or what?

Re:Google?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's MS. Why play games online or use google docs for free? X-box live and One Drive are only a fistful of dollars per month!

Re:Google?

[Ol Olsoc]

So - In fact I have to pay to get advertisement presented to me. Weird or what?

It's like T-Shirts and caps with a company's name and logo on them. People buy that stuff. Its weird, but it happens.

The article suggests ads are part of the hidden pr

[Anonymous Coward]

So if I purchase Win 10 it comes without the ads?

there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has lost its grip on what is acceptable

I agree.

In fact, they lost the grip when they first shipped MS-DOS that was a decade behind other operating systems with its single tasking and lack of memory protection and small memory limits and being a decade late to the internet and subsequent security clusterfuck when legions of insecure machines finally got online. Culminating now with spyware and adware built right into the OS itself. That does not even talk about their unacceptable business practices and abusing their monopoly to damage open standards and hold back personal computing. This is a company of foul colour.

There is a simple solution for all of these problems. Do not use their OS, if you find it unacceptable. It is unacceptable to me, so I don't use it. Problem solved.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Man On Pink Corner]

In fact, they lost the grip when they first shipped MS-DOS that was a decade behind other operating systems with its single tasking and lack of memory protection and small memory limits

It's probably time to get over MS-DOS. The unfortunate fact is, if a Unix-influenced OS was ever going to take over the desktop, then a Unix-influenced OS would already have taken over the desktop.

Do not use their OS, if you find it unacceptable. It is unacceptable to me, so I don't use it. Problem solved.

Translation: "I'm either self-employed, retired, or independently wealthy, so I don't have to use Microsoft products. Bwahahaha."

Re:there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

They weren't a decade behind other home computers though; what other computer on the market had that in 1981?

Re:there's a simple solution

[Megol]

Microsoft has lost its grip on what is acceptable

I agree.

In fact, they lost the grip when they first shipped MS-DOS that was a decade behind other operating systems with its single tasking

What are you comparing to? Can't be something realistic anyway...

and lack of memory protection

The hardware didn't support memory protection and the hardware wasn't fast enough to do that protection in software. That wasn't in anyway unique to MSDOS and several later unrelated operating systems also had no support for memory protection, in some cases even though the hardware supported it.

and small memory limits

Again MSDOS supported what the hardware provided. While 640KiB is the "accepted" limit in the IBM PC due to hardware design MSDOS and the IBM derivative IBM DOS supports up to the limit of real-mode hardware address space - which is 1MiB on the 8086 and 1MiB+64KiB-16B on 80386+.

Compare that with other personal computer systems available at the time.

and being a decade late to the internet

The Internet that nobody had access to you mean? The Internet that nobody wanted access to? The Internet that isn't at all like the one we have today - but a system for technical people to communicate? The Internet that wasn't even widely used for company communications, trading etc.? It's like you have no actual knowledge of anything say 20 years back...

and subsequent security clusterfuck when legions of insecure machines finally got online.

You can't seriously believe that "legions" of MSDOS machines were online?!?

Culminating now with spyware and adware built right into the OS itself. That does not even talk about their unacceptable business practices and abusing their monopoly to damage open standards and hold back personal computing. This is a company of foul colour.

There is a simple solution for all of these problems. Do not use their OS, if you find it unacceptable. It is unacceptable to me, so I don't use it. Problem solved.

You have shown us that you have no freaking clue of anything that can be verified, why should we accept your opinion?

Re:there's a simple solution

[nomadic]

"The unfortunate fact is, if a Unix-influenced OS was ever going to take over the desktop, then a Unix-influenced OS would already have taken over the desktop."

I have it on good authority that this year will FINALLY be the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

Re:there's a simple solution

[nomadic]

I certainly remember running large-scale long-term atmospheric models using terrabytes of RAM on that Commodore 64...

Re:there's a simple solution

[Ol Olsoc]

There is a simple solution for all of these problems. Do not use their OS, if you find it unacceptable. It is unacceptable to me, so I don't use it. Problem solved.

Exactly. People have been inculcated to "popularity". To the point where some are bragging that Nvidia drivers serve ads while the less popular Linux drivers fo rthe same card don't.

Its all down to the individual. The installed user base really doesn't mean much to the individual unless they are worried about popularity, like somehow Kim Kardashian is superior to your hot next door neighbor woman because Kim gets so many followers on Twitter, and your neighbor doesn't.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Ol Olsoc]

Translation: "I'm either self-employed, retired, or independently wealthy, so I don't have to use Microsoft products. Bwahahaha."

Translation "I'm so damn worried about popularity that I'm blind to any other option."

kisskiss

Re:there's a simple solution

[WheezyJoe]

I have it on good authority that this year will FINALLY be the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

Oh do please cite... I've been looking far and wide for some good authority :-P

Re:there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree about DOS 3.3 and before not needing memory protection but by the time the 386 came out there WAS memory protection and virtual address space. DOS never changed. But perhaps there was a reason for that. Look up Xenix.

And the multitasking bit - that's easy - Minix was a free clone of Unix in 1987. Unix has had multi-processing since Multics - in fact thats why it was used as a professional tool and why it took Microsoft until Windows for Workgroups (and NT3.5) to really acknowledge any sort of multi-tasking paradigm (don't say Windows x before 3.11 - they were toys and Microsoft knew it. The first 'real' stack that you didn't need Novell to provide a network for was WW3.11.

Microsoft has been providing tools its customers want for years....But they have never said 'security first', 'end users are sacred', 'privacy is key'. They make a 'lowest common denomonator' platform and it has worked well.

We can call them the ultimate Trumpian Corporation.

(Just because someone wants something doesn't mean its good for them or society).

Re:there's a simple solution

[Archangel Michael]

Again MSDOS supported what the hardware provided. While 640KiB is the "accepted" limit in the IBM PC due to hardware design MSDOS and the IBM derivative IBM DOS supports up to the limit of real-mode hardware address space - which is 1MiB on the 8086

While I will agree with the technical bits for the 8086 (1 MB addressable) the problem wasn't the memory limit, the problem was the memory limit was fenced in by putting the "reserve" in the upper bounds, and not the lower bounds. Had the 0-384 range been set aside bios/video whatever, and 385-1024 set aside for "program space", they would have had a lot better chance at being able to address RAM above 1024 when 286 came out.

I blame IBM engineers who designed the memory space upside down for convenience. And not, BTW, Bill Gates who did not say anything about 640k Being enough for everyone.

I know, because I was there back in the day, playing on the first computer that was able to address more than 640K due to its own quirks ... the IBM PCjr But then again, I had to buy PCjr versions of programs because ... it was really that quirky.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Archangel Michael]

Looks down at my Android phone ... and blinks

Re:there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

> The hardware didn't support memory protection

Sun, HP, DEC, and others would disagree. You don't seem to recall what the situation was at the time.

> Again MSDOS supported what the hardware provided. While 640KiB is the "accepted" limit in the IBM PC

"In the IBM PC". Plenty of other machines supported a full 32 bit address space. You don't seem to recall what the situation was at the time.

> The Internet that nobody had access to you mean?

No, the internet that was growing leaps and bounds while Microsoft tried to marginalize it with their own proprietary network. You don't seem to recall what the situation was at the time.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Cro Magnon]

This doesn't look like a desktop to me. :-p

Re:there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

>> In fact, they lost the grip when they first shipped MS-DOS that was a decade behind other operating systems with its single tasking
> What are you comparing to? Can't be something realistic anyway...

MS-DOS 1 was equivalent to, or a clone of, DRI's CP/M from 1976. In fact it was missing some features of that, such as checking when disks were changed. It didn't even support hard disks until MS-DOS 2.x while CP/M could for 5 years.

In 1978 DRI released MP/M - a multi-user and multi-tasking version of CP/M (using bank switching). This went through MP/M II and MP/M-86. When MS-DOS 2 was released DRI was demonstrating Concurrent-CP/M-86 which was multi-tasking on virtual screens. DRI continued with its multi-user multi-tasking OSes and derived DOS-Plus, DR-DOS 3, 5, 6 and 7. MS responded with MS-DOS 5 and 6 copying several features of DR-DOS but doing so up to 2 years after.

> MSDOS and the IBM derivative IBM DOS supports up to the limit of real-mode hardware address space - which is 1MiB on the 8086 and 1MiB+64KiB-16B on 80386+

DRI's Concurrent-DOS-386 (and derivatives) was multiuser and multitasking CP/M and DOS programs with protection on 386/486 using the full address range (though each program could use 1Mb 8086 range plus EMS memory). It could even run multiple copies of Windows 3.11 (on virtual screens or graphics terminals)

OTOH there were multi-tasking (limited) versions of MS-DOS: MS-DOS 4.0 and 4.1 (not to be confused with the much later 4.01), otherwise known as 'European DOS'. This was released by Siemens, ICL (where I worked) and Wang but was cancelled when OS/2 was released (which was originally called MS-DOS 5.0 in alpha versions). 4.x was based on 3.1 and 3.2 and supported background tasks on a 286.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

> Had the 0-384 range been set aside bios/video whatever, and 385-1024 set aside for "program space", they would have had a lot better chance at being able to address RAM above 1024 when 286 came out.

Simply not true. 8086 memory is addressed as segment:offset, it is irrelevant which segment numbers are 'reserved'. The 286 also did not have a linear address space, it also used a similar address mechanism but it was selector:offset. MS-DOS 4.0 and 4.1 (European DOS) did run in 286 mode (MS-DOS 3.x programs ran in the 8086 mode DOS-Box) and could access all 16MBytes of RAM. It could run 286 mode programs accessing the whole memory space with protection (selectors had protection bits for each segment). The limitation was that most MS-DOS 8086 programs did segment manipulation* that was incompatible with selectors. No one was prepared to rewrite the programs and the compilers to remove segment fiddling and there were not enough selectors (it was fixed at 8000) to do tiling.

* On an 8086/8088 the address seg:offset is the same memory location as seg+1:offset-16. On a 80286 these use completely different selectors which point to completely different physical locations.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

> The unfortunate fact is, if a Unix-influenced OS was ever going to take over the desktop, then a Unix-influenced OS would already have taken over the desktop.

People don't buy computers to run an operating system, they buy a computer to run applications. It happened that they wanted to run WordStar, WordPerfect, Visicalc, SuperCalc, Lotus 123, PeachTree, and many other particular applications. Initially these were run on CP/M (or Apple II with Z80 softcard) but IBM-PC gave more memory and MS-DOS was [almost] 'good enough' but otherwise irrelevant and didn't get in the way too much.

Initially Windows 386/3.0 was successful because on a 386 it could run several MS-DOS programs at the same time and switch between them. It was only later that they bothered to change to using actual Windows programs.

Two 'Unix-influenced OS' (Linux/Android and BSD/iOS) have taken over the most personal of personal computers, the ones you have in your pocket. This is because they didn't have to comply with the baggage of decades of the legacy of Visicalc and Wordstar (and many other) derivatives.

Re:there's a simple solution

[wasteoid]

Or update your hosts file to use your loopback IP address for the spy domains, like the last part of this hosts file.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Man On Pink Corner]

Yeah, I'm a real popular guy, down at the mortgage company. I kinda need to stay that way.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Ol Olsoc]

Yeah, I'm a real popular guy, down at the mortgage company. I kinda need to stay that way.

I'm pretty popular too, because unlike so many in here, I'm fairly proficient on Windows, Unix, (MacOS) and Linux. It's kinda like a person knowing how to speak English, Spanish, and French.

Actually that makes me rather unpopular with some folks here. As my boss always said about me "Don't bullshit a bullshitter."

Re:there's a simple solution

[JohnFen]

Translation: "I'm either self-employed, retired, or independently wealthy, so I don't have to use Microsoft products. Bwahahaha."

I am none of those things, and I don't have to use Microsoft products on my own machines. I do have to use Windows at work, but that's on my employer's machines, not mine. Plus, I get to continue to do my development on Win 7, and only need to use 10 for testing.

Re:there's a simple solution

[david_thornley]

When MS-DOS was introduced (as PC-DOS), it was a decent OS. The IBM PC was a somewhat more powerful version of the PCs already around, typically based on Intel, Zilog, more Mostek CPUs. The memory limits were small because of the CPUs available. The 8088 could address 1M memory rather than 64K, although in a clunky manner (and MS-DOS only allowed the user 640K). Few people wanted to pay for more than 64K anyway when the IBM PC was introduced. There was no hardware memory protection, and little hardware support for multitasking. Doing these things in software would have been a burden on CPUs already not too fast.

MS-DOS may not have kept up with the times well, but its competitors didn't either.

Re:there's a simple solution

[Megol]

> The hardware didn't support memory protection

Sun, HP, DEC, and others would disagree. You don't seem to recall what the situation was at the time.

They did memory protection on the 8088? Nope. Sun did with extra hardware, two 68k processors and a shitload of ca$h. Not for personal computers though. Even if the IBM PC cost a lot the price of a Sun workstation would have most normal people running away screaming...

> Again MSDOS supported what the hardware provided. While 640KiB is the "accepted" limit in the IBM PC

"In the IBM PC". Plenty of other machines supported a full 32 bit address space. You don't seem to recall what the situation was at the time.

Yes I do. What system are you thinking of? It isn't a reasonable priced _personal_ computer, that's for sure. Even the 68k based systems available at approximately the same time had an address space of 16MiB (or 24 bit). Actual addressable memory was of course much less and even less were installed in real personal computers - as memory cost a lot of ca$h.
--
I'm surprised that you don't complain that Microsoft didn't support vector processing in MSDOS. After all there were vectors computers available at the time. But not for personal computing and not for the masses.

> The Internet that nobody had access to you mean?

No, the internet that was growing leaps and bounds while Microsoft tried to marginalize it with their own proprietary network. You don't seem to recall what the situation was at the time.

Hmm? No. The Internet took of when the WWW started, before that it was BBS, AOL etc. that was available for common people. Yes if one really wanted there were dial-up Internet connections before but for a lot of ca$h and relatively little useful stuff (Usenet+email+FTP mostly).

At least I remember gopher...

Re:there's a simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

lookup GeoWorks what was possible with 8086

maybe multi-tasking msdos would have been much greater gaming platform than windows actually are (that's why we need Game Mode..)

Re:The article suggests ads are part of the hidden

[Anonymous Coward]

If you purchase home or Pro you get ads just the same. Only Enterprise, I believe, doesn't have them.

Also, if you like playing Solitaire games, brace for ads. Unless you pay a yearly subscription fee.

If you buy something, prepare for a deluge of offers and rewards in email.

Ad Blindness

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure about that? Both myself and my coworker were given Windows 10 Pro laptops, fresh install, no third party bloat. I started to complain about all the adverts and set about turning telemetry and ads off by any means neccessary. Meanwhile he says "I don't have any ads on mine". I walk around and there's literally big blinking animated squares advertising computer games on his monitor. Some people are so desensitised they can't even identify adverts that are staring them right in the face.

Re:Ad Blindness

[Cederic]

Yep, sure about that. Windows 10 Pro here and after I disabled the 'base installation' panels I've seen almost nothing that would count as an advert.

I did spend a couple of hours configuring the system to minimise telemetry, disable automatic updates and generally stop it being obnoxious though. Most users lack the patience, knowledge or bloody mindedness to do that.

Re:Ad Blindness

[Anonymous Coward]

90% of that crap is controlled by the "Notifications" settings. If you turn off "Windows Notifications" then all that shit stops too. Windows runs a hell of a lot faster with that crap off, and if something important happens (virus, etc.) your software will still tell you using its own interface.

Re:Ad Blindness

[Bigbutt]

At best I got a "you need to log in to your OneDrive account" sort of message recently that implied to me that I hadn't logged in in a while and my session had timed out. I just clicked through it.

The only sidebar messages I get are the occasional Windows Defender, everything's okay, and the occasional "you have x nextdoor messages in your gmailbox" from Google. I have an asus popup on the lower right about checking my bios for upgrades that's annoying (nothing like having the stupid thing kill my gaming session).

And again, Windows 10 Pro.

[John]

Re:Ad Blindness

[supremebob]

Sure, you can turn the ads off, but you really shouldn't HAVE to. If you paid for your copy of Windows, the display of advertising should be disabled by default. Make that shit Opt In, not Opt Out.

Now, if it's one of those "free" upgrade installs to Windows 10, I guess that I'm OK with that. Anyone with half a brain should know by now that nothing that Microsoft makes is truly free.

Re:Ad Blindness

[bfpierce]

That might tell you something.

For some people it's so out of the way they don't give a shit. Seriously, if I don't notice the 'blinking squares' and go on with my normal activities am I damaged? Did I get harmed somehow?

Re:Ad Blindness

[Ol Olsoc]

I have an asus popup on the lower right about checking my bios for upgrades that's annoying (nothing like having the stupid thing kill my gaming session).

Yikes! a lesson in capitalization. I read "I have an anus popup on the lower right".

Hey, as long as it is between two consenting adults, yaknow....8^)

Re:Ad Blindness

[Ol Olsoc]

Now, if it's one of those "free" upgrade installs to Windows 10, I guess that I'm OK with that. Anyone with half a brain should know by now that nothing that Microsoft makes is truly free.

It's not Okay even then. People should have everything spelled out to them upfront. Donations are completely voluntary in my Linux distros, but I don't get served ads if I don't contribute.

Re:Ad Blindness

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, if I don't notice the 'blinking squares' and go on with my normal activities am I damaged?

Yes

Re:Ad Blindness

[Anonymous Coward]

Calls gamers faggots, owns a Surface Book. Top keks.

Re:Ad Blindness

[Anonymous Coward]

I promise you that an automatic update will revert your settings and reinstate tiles and shortcuts. I have tried, it is a constant battle.

Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[upuv]

Ok this is going to sound like a shameless plug for Linux.

Win 7 was my last used OS from MS. I do have a win 8.1 VM I use on very rare occasions. ( Win 10 won't install as an upgrade on it. ) Win 8.1 was possibly the worst operating system I have ever worked with. What's with these invisible hot spots on the screen that you must magically know exist. Hot spots that just happen to be where the close on a window is. The tiles that are of No use to anyone that every used a computer. And the nightmare navigation of tiles menus and dialogues that essentially have no flow. The command line still after all these years is so utterly broken that only professional that live in the OS would understand it.

Now you have a Windows 10 that is like the article points out is simply and ad machine. Ad's which I expressly do not want to see. Do not want to have at all. Ads that eat resources. Ads that are yet another vector for infection and attack on my computers.

I want none of this garbage. Over the years I have used well probably all the major OS's out there. Some minor forks probably not. I have basically migrated everything to a Linux OS of some flavor. ( Some BSD in there ) And I've automated all of them. All my hosts do automatic updates, All hosts are scanned for the bad dudes. Even my routers and modems are now Linux. I've implemented a DNS blackhole for ads and malware. I've implemented backups and snap shots of all hosts. And I have built a central Network/Device health status that monitors basically everything.

All for the cost of the hardware alone.

Most of the shops I work in the first thing I do with the corp issued laptop is to clone the horrible MS OS nightmare they have on it to a VM image and run it as a VM on the same host. I then replace the original OS with a Linux variant. Now all of a sudden I have the ability to do all the corp BS stuff but I also have the ability to run my own development and test lab on that corp issued laptop.

Windows has gone down this path of making my computing life a royal pain in the backside. Where as Linux in the last few years has become fantastic OS for small tasks, server tasks, and even as a desktop. It's almost like MS doesn't want our business. Without MS as the OS there is very little if anything compelling me to purchase and use the other MS office tools. MS office tools are pretty horrible but since they don't play well at all with the whole computing eco system these days I really have no need to use them. So if the OS is annoying as hell and the alternatives aren't and the apps I use run on all OS's and/or browsers why do I need MS anymore?

( Excuse the typo's I'm dyslexic so it's difficult to see errors. )

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here, I deleted the default Windows 10 on my laptop, installed Linux desktop with a spare certified windows 81. in a vm.

And Ubuntu phone, which I thoroughly enjoy -- especially the uNav turn-by-turn nav without Google tracking. So I'm free of Google/Apple/Microsoft tracking on all platforms. Yay.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[jawtheshark]

Win 10 won't install as an upgrade on it.

Did it complain about the graphics drivers not being compatible? You can work around that, I don't remember how, but Googling the message was enough to find a relatively straightforward solution.

You can still upgrade using the assistive technologies workaround. Still works, just did it last week on a second hand laptop I acquired. It came with 7, I upgraded to 10, to secure the license and then installed Linux. I don't use Microsoft, but I do not want to remove the choice for anyone who might get the machine after me. (That future person can now use 7, 10 and any free operating system).

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[rastos1]

The command line still after all these years is so utterly broken ...

But ... but ... you can now resize the cmd window by dragging the window border! Isn't that amazing?!

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[AmiMoJo]

All for the cost of the hardware alone.

The cost in time is one of the biggest reasons I stick with Windows for now. I'm not a Linux noob, I've done Unix shell scripting and can find my way around a Linux system, but because I use Windows at work I am far more knowledgeable about it. For example, I can knock up apps very quickly in Visual Studio, even full GUI stuff or device drivers for custom USB devices, because I'm familiar with the process. I'm sure I could learn how to do it on Linux, but then I'd have to invest time doing that instead of just writing the thing I actually want.

I also need a fair few apps that only run on Windows. Some are marked as "garbage" in WINE's database. I could use a VM I guess, but I've always had problems with USB in VirtualBox on Linux (where as VMWare on Windows is flawless).

If you can do everything you want to on Linux that's great, but I'll probably wait until I am forced to move by Windows 8.1 suffering some unfixable problem before I'll invest the time.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[drinkypoo]

I can knock up apps very quickly in Visual Studio, even full GUI stuff or device drivers for custom USB devices, because I'm familiar with the process. I'm sure I could learn how to do it on Linux, but then I'd have to invest time doing that instead of just writing the thing I actually want.

Microsoft has finally got themselves the bad reputation they have long deserved, and it's probable that their stranglehold on the industry will continue to relax from this day forward. Perhaps this is a good time to explore the use of a more cross-platform toolkit? Your primary familiarity with Windows will serve you well here, because it's the odd OS out where everything is strange and annoying. Everything is both easier and more similar (to one another) in the rest of the computing world.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

Be fair, powershell is quite capable, and if you so choose you can replace it with bash.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[AmiMoJo]

It's definitely time to start making the effort to move, I just don't because I want to dedicate my time to other things. Work will never change because all our clients use Windows and require Windows software, unfortunately.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[jawtheshark]

I've always had problems with USB in VirtualBox on Linux

Have you tried the closed VirtualBox extension pack? Either go download them here (second bullet point), or if you use Ubuntu (like I do), just use the provided package that provides a downloader: "virtualbox-ext-pack".

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[bondsbw]

Be fair, powershell is quite capable, and if you so choose you can replace it with bash.

Much this. They can't get rid of cmd.exe because of legacy, but anyone who is writing new scripts in Windows today should be using Powershell.

Bash is fine too (personally I feel that PS is a good step up from Bash but it's not worth getting in a flame war over). I think there are some gotchas about its integration, such as permissions... I haven't really had the opportunity to use it much though so correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

All for the cost of the hardware alone.

Uh... and your copious amounts of free time?

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 8.1 was a fantastic tablet OS. Better than Windows 10, in fact. The swipe-from-edge function just felt natural, and the whole system was fast as hell even on an underpowered Atom tablet. That said, Windows 10 is a better phone OS, and isn't any worse than Windows 7 as a desktop OS.

I haven't seen an ad on any of my Windows 10 machines since the day I set the settings to tell it to fuck right the hell off with Candy Crush. (Settings > Privacy > General > Let apps use my Advertising ID blah blah blah: OFF. Settings > Personalization > Start > Occasionally show suggestions in Start: OFF. Done.)

I've found Linux to be mostly a difficult pain in the ass that doesn't do anything useful in my daily life. Meanwhile, I use Windows daily to get shit done. YMMV. And if you were even half as smart as you think you are, you wouldn't talk shit about other peoples' experience. Use what you like, but lose the chip on your shoulder.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Spock9999]

"All for the cost of the hardware alone." Yeah, and HUNDREDS of hours of your time. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad all these tools, system are available at little or no cost. But you certainly can't say for the cost of hardware only. So many people do not include everything that makes up the bottom line.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[AmiMoJo]

I have tried it, although not in the last year... I just find that it's very flakey and some devices work much better than others. In comparison VMWare just works perfectly every time.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[jawtheshark]

Well, I was just pointing it out because it's not well advertised. VirtualBox works very well for my needs, but I saw you do USB development, so I really can't compare. There should be VMWare for Linux, though. I don't really use VMWare, but their tools are really good. I used VMware vCenter Converter to convert an existing installation to a vmdk and put it into VirtualBox. Worked like a charm.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

> The command line still after all these years is so utterly broken that only professional that live in the OS would understand it.

Microsoft had a broken command line - deliberately. At the 1982 COMDEX Paul Allen announced what would be in the 'next version' of MS-DOS (but never was) including command line help, auto-completion and editing (which CP/M-86 and others already had), but then they saw DRI demonstrating GEM and rushed off to start writing Windows. In the Windows 3.x years they made command line operation worse. With Windows 95 they did release command line editing and help but it was not installed and they did not put it in the manual. They ran a campaign to denigrate command lines, and thus scripts.

You can't cope with command lines, others use this to automate tasks and avoid repetitively point and clicks.

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

( Excuse the typo's I'm dyslexic so it's difficult to see errors. )

I didn't find any typos. Impressive!

Re:Win7 was my last Windows OS.

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer Perl, Python or AutoHotKey for scripting over PowerShell.

Hey, MS

[ChunderDownunder]

I have 2 PCs running Windows XP.
Where's *their* free upgrade?

Re:Hey, MS

[ukoda]

Right here https://www.linuxmint.com/down..., enjoy!

Re:Hey, MS

[Anonymous Coward]

I still think Microsoft should have offered a free upgrade to XP to all ME users. They lost me as a user then.

Re:Hey, MS

[Highdude702]

People didn't actually use winME did they? I thought it was some weird concept OS when it came out.. Like one of those cars you see at car shows that never even smell a production line. normally built out of cardboard and scotch tape. I guess they had the same engineers O.o

Re:Hey, MS

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the wrong distro.

Re:Hey, MS

[Anonymous Coward]

This one any better?

Re:Hey, MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, that's the right one. Just backup all your data to an external device and do a fresh install. It's much better then upgrades. Trust me.

Re:Hey, MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Broke the link...somehow.

http://lubuntu.net/

Re:Hey, MS

[supremebob]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend trying to install the latest version of Ubuntu on a PC that's old enough (2001-2009) to have come with a pre installed version of Windows XP. You're probably going to have a bad time because of the slow CPU and not enough memory.

Lubuntu would be a better choice.

Re:Hey, MS

[DontBeAMoran]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-c...

Re:Hey, MS

[DontBeAMoran]

That also pisses me off when people keep saying things like "The article suggests ads are part of the hidden price tag for the free downloads of Windows 10 that Microsoft offered last year". If it were free, they'd have an unlocked ISO that doesn't annoy you to buy Windows after using it for a while.

It's a free upgrade for a limited subset of users, but not free. Free means free for everyone, not only those who bought something from Microsoft before. Where's the free Windows 10 for Windows XP users? For Mac users? For Linux users?

Re:Hey, MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes - it was an upgrade to Windows 98.

In that respect, it wasn't bad. The problem is that Windows 2000 Workstation was out and was stable with the same features. So after 'upgrading' to fix BSOD and other various crashes, and having the same BSOD and other varous crashes, I moved to Win 2k workstation.

It took longer to boot but the desktop experience was the same. Microsoft realized this and that the 'upgrade' was a skin and that there was no compelling reason to upgrade (except for system integrators as you didn't have to worry about the Win 98 SE / service pack crap that was required for good USB and AGP integration).

So to sum, yes some of us used it but not for very long.

It's more than just ads!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also spyware!

Can't forget that!

This is Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

But if we're honest, the company is doing nothing more than abusing its position

This is exactly what they've always done. No one should be surprised.

Windows 10 Is Just 'A Vehicle For Advertisements'

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks about right, except the time when it went crazy with reboot loop where it's no longer an ads vehicle but a colorful brick.

They mad they weren't google...

[Anonymous Coward]

... MS see's every other corporation from apple, valve, ea, activision, google, and everyone else basically taking control of programs away from end users. So MS is stepping in. If people accept walled gardens with android/phones and videogames, why not finally operating systems?

The average consumer however enabled all this shit partially by paying for shit they never own. Esp videogames - I'm looking at you MMO players and steam morons.

Re:They mad they weren't google...

[Anonymous Coward]

None of your examples are walled gardens. Android is a garden, but it has no walls. EA, Activision, Valve... they don't even make gardens let alone a walls. iOS is an actual walled garden, but you didn't bother to name drop it.

Ads..

[Altrag]

And there's ads on the internet.. and on TV.. and at the bus stop. Its almost as if advertisers want you to see their ads all the time!

Meh. Sure its a bit annoying to get ads in software you pay for but that's hardly a new phenomena -- pay $20 for a movie and enjoy 15 minutes of ads for future movies, cars etc. Buy the dvd for $40 and get the same treatment. Yadayada.

I'm not saying its a good thing. Or even something we shouldn't complain about. I'm just saying its systematic everywhere. To the point that its more surprising that they waited this long to toss advertising hooks into Windows.

That said, I never see ads. Its not that hard to find the option to turn them off in the start menu (though I don't recall where off hand.) And I turned Cortana off after the first time it took 10+ seconds to find a program in my start menu (ie: the first time I tried using it) since it feels like it needs to search the entire interwebs first Using Bing no less. And I do many if not most things through the start menu (though I imagine I'm in a small crowd on that one) so I didn't even get to the point of considering the privacy implications -- the sheer inconvenience of the "improved" search function had me running for the "off" slider on day 1.

Disable Cortana. Disable the "suggested content" in the start menu. Disable a few of the "notifications" that spam you to buy Office or whatever every other day, and install Spybot's Anti-Beacon. Its certainly more steps than necessary but once done, you have a reasonably decent and usable OS again.

Re:Ads..

[Anonymous Coward]

... pay $20 for a movie and enjoy 15 minutes of ads for future movies, cars etc. Buy the dvd for $40 and get the same treatment. Yadayada.

Torrent it.. and.. you don't.

Re:Ads..

[Bigbutt]

I rip mine to my media server. No ads there either.

[John]

Re:Ads..

[DalM]

It's probably not surprising they "waited" this long to bring ads. This is probably a violation of their monopoly restrictions. However, MS probably feels that with Android and iOS doing the same things AND Android now having a larger marketshare than Windows, that they have a good case to make that they no longer have a monopoly position.

Re:Ads..

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever been to Stockholm?

Re:Ads..

[StormReaver]

That said, I never see ads. Its not that hard to find the option to turn them off....

Statements like this just astound me. It's as if you've just been raped with a spintered stick for the hundredth time, keep begging for more, all the while justifying the perpetrator's behavior by saying, "it won't happen one hundred one times.

Wake up and smell the delusion.

Re:Ads..

[nine-times]

To me, that's a little like getting your wallet stolen and someone saying, "Yeah, there are thieves all over the place. Maybe if you put a chain on your wallet, you won't have that problem again." Which is to say:

A) The fact that it's "all over the place" doesn't excuse it.
B) Yes, obviously if you're more careful it will be less likely, but...
C) I'm not sure how careful I want to have to be, and...
D) Your advice won't keep it from happening in the future, so...
E) Maybe we should think of some other solutions here.

In the case of Microsoft, I avoid using them whenever possible. If they don't respect their role as an OS vendor, I'm not going to respect it either.

Re:Ads..

[HideyoshiJP]

pay $20 for a movie and enjoy 15 minutes of ads for future movies, cars etc. Buy the dvd for $40 and get the same treatment.

You talking Australia or Canada dollars instead of US American? That seems like double the amount I pay in both cases.

Re:Ads..

[Anonymous Coward]

its not in OS x

Re:Ads..

[Altrag]

WTF are you talking about? I'm not sure what's deluded about "they were there, I hit the option to turn them off, and now they aren't there"..?

Or are you under the impression that I somehow think turning off the ad ticker in the Windows Start menu should magically make all ads everywhere disappear? Because that's definitely not what I wrote. And would be a flat out stupid claim. I have no "delusions" about that.

Re:Ads..

[Altrag]

A) I never said it did. In fact I said exactly the opposite.

B/C) What you want seems to be pretty irrelevant. Your options are being careful or getting plastered with ads. You don't have a choice of middle ground (or at least not much of one.)

D) Yes it will. In that very specific instance of such. No turning off the Windows start menu ad ticker won't stop ads on Skype or Youtube or your television. But it will stop the ad ticker in Win10's start menu, which is what I was talking about specifically.

E) We should. But they need to be large-scale solutions if you want them to have any effect. Which probably means legal solutions since convincing a significant number of companies to forego one of their primary revenue streams for no reason than "I don't like it" is probably not going to get you very far.

In the case of Microsoft, I avoid using them whenever possible

Great. In terms of ads, that means you've managed to avoid a couple small (and easy-to-disable) ads in Windows and a handful of less-easy-to-disable ads in Skype and a few other places. Now you just have television, newspapers, buses and much of the internet to avoid! There are many reasons you may dislike MS products, but this is probably not the most significant one given how pervasive the problem is everywhere else -- one more instance isn't really going to make or break you.

Re:Ads..

[nine-times]

I never said it did. In fact I said exactly the opposite.

Stil, the nature of your post is an excuse. It like, "Listen guys, I don't condone this behavior, but it's a fact of life, so we all better get used to it."

Your options are being careful or getting plastered with ads. You don't have a choice of middle ground (or at least not much of one.)

I'm not looking for a "middle ground", I'm looking for an alternative. Refusing to use Microsoft products is a good start.

But it will stop the ad ticker in Win10's start menu, which is what I was talking about specifically.

Until Microsoft issues an update that doesn't respect your choice.

In terms of ads, that means you've managed to avoid a couple small (and easy-to-disable) ads in Windows and a handful of less-easy-to-disable ads in Skype and a few other places.

Then don't use Microsoft. No Windows, no Skype, no Microsoft Store, no Microsoft Edge. Like I said, don't use Microsoft.

Now you just have television, newspapers, buses and much of the internet to avoid!

Well first, a fair amount of that can be gotten rid of with a good ad-blocker. I also don't watch TV that has ads, for whatever that's worth. But that's entirely beside the fucking point. I'm not saying that I'm some poor little withering flower who can't deal with exposure to a single advertisement. I'm saying that it's possible for a company to cross the line into unacceptable behavior, and when that happens, unlike you, I don't think it's a good idea to shrug and say, "Oh well, I guess I'm stuck with this."

So stop using Microsoft. Use Linux. Get a Mac. Get a Chromebook. Whatever. Because if you just accept this kind of thing, then you're just going to keep getting more and more of it.

Re:Ads..

[JohnFen]

pay $20 for a movie and enjoy 15 minutes of ads for future movies, cars etc. Buy the dvd for $40 and get the same treatment.

Both of which are big parts of the reasons why I stopped going to movie theaters and using DVDs.

Re:Ads..

[Altrag]

but it's a fact of life, so we all better get used to it.

Essentially, yes. If you can't propose a large-scale solution, then you're not really proposing a solution. Its like trying to stay dry by holding a pencil over your head in the rain. It might do something but its not really going to be noticeable.

If you want to hate on MS then good for you. You're welcome to hate them as much as you want and avoid their products as much as you want. You may even have valid points somewhere. But reducing the amount of ads in your life just isn't a terribly significant one.

Refusing to use Microsoft products is a good start.

Refusing to use MS products is a drop in the ocean. Yes its a "start" but I'd hardly call it a good one.

Until Microsoft issues an update that doesn't respect your choice.

And when that happens, I'll consider changing my opinion. For now I'll deal with the product as it currently stands.

Like I said, don't use Microsoft.

OK, so lets use Safari on OSX. Hmm. There's still ads on Youtube. OK lets try Firefox on Linux. That's all open source so.. hey wait there's still ads on Youtube! Its almost as if Microsoft only controls their own products and not all commercial software and services. What kind of a crazy world is this?

So you install an adblocker. And don't use sites that block adblocker. And don't use software that includes ads. And don't watch TV channels that have commercials. And don't get on buses that have ad placards. And don't drive on streets that have billboards. And don't read newspapers and and and. Oh and by the way what are you doing on Slashdot? They have ads here!

Get a Chromebook.

I'm sorry, did you just tell me to stop using MS to reduce the ad problem and then suggest Google as a better alternative? AKA one of if not the biggest online ad company in the world? Like I said you're welcome to hate MS if you want, but using "I don't like that specific company" as your sole argument is showing some glaring holes against the backdrop of just so much other shit that's out there.

Re:Ads..

[nine-times]

And when that happens, I'll consider changing my opinion.

It's already happened. Microsoft keeps changing their options with every update, removing options to opt-out of their abusive behavior. They'll do it again.

OK, so lets use Safari on OSX. Hmm. There's still ads on Youtube.

Ok, so let me go back and quote what I said before:

Well first, a fair amount of that can be gotten rid of with a good ad-blocker. I also don't watch TV that has ads, for whatever that's worth. But that's entirely beside the fucking point.

The point here isn't that ads are unacceptable under any circumstance. The point is that forced advertisements in your computer operating system is completely over the line.

So you install an adblocker. And don't use sites that block adblocker. And don't use software that includes ads. And don't watch TV channels that have commercials. And don't get on buses that have ad placards.

At least those are options. If you want to avoid ads, you have the option of installing ad-blockers, avoiding sites with forced ads, etc. If you're using Windows these days, you're accepting that Microsoft will force ads down your throat.

I'm sorry, did you just tell me to stop using MS to reduce the ad problem and then suggest Google as a better alternative?

Yes, and ChromeOS is definitely a better option in that regard. For whatever problems you might suggest Google has, at least their OS isn't designed to spam you. Even if they start including ads, it's open-source and can be forked.

Like I said you're welcome to hate MS if you want, but using "I don't like that specific company" as your sole argument is showing some glaring holes against the backdrop of just so much other shit that's out there.

You know, I really can't figure out if you're a Microsoft shill, an argumentative moron, or a dog that's been beaten so many times that he's started to like it. Regardless, the argument is not "I don't like that specific company", but "That specific company has crossed a line by turning basic computing into an advertising platform. If you can't use a computer without being spammed by the OS vendor's ads, then it's time to find a new OS vendor." And that's my response to all of the advertising. If you think that broadcast TV has crossed a line with their advertising, don't watch broadcast TV. If you think Youtube has gone too far, then install an ad-blocker that rectifies that and/or stop using Youtube. Microsoft has certainly crossed a line, so it's time to stop using Microsoft.

It just doesn't make any sense to respond, "Well even if you do that, there will still be ads in the world somewhere, so no, you have to keep using Microsoft products and subjecting yourself to their ads."

And if you can't or won't understand that, then there's no point in arguing with you further.

Crapware.

[jcr]

I remember when it was the Dells and Gateways of the world who were so desperate to scrape any profit out of their razor-thin margins that they'd load their machines up with this shit.

You get what you pay for.

-jcr

Re:Crapware.

[TheRaven64]

You get what you pay for.

I believe the point of this story is that you don't.

Re:Crapware.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently, you can also get stuff you don't pay for.

Re:Crapware.

[Anonymous Coward]

Re "You get what you pay for."

It's time to kill this old saying. The converse is true, we pay for what we get. But now, instead of getting what we pay for, too much of what we pay goes to the C suite executives and too little for the products. :(

Ads are not even the worst part.

[XSportSeeker]

The worst part of Windows 10 is the telemetry stuff along with dial home crap.
I don't know if this is a region thing or because I extensively thrawled configuration options, but I don't have any ads whatsoever on my Windows 10.

But Microsoft needs to change direction on this urgently. Fire everyone involved with these hamfisted stupid decisions before they completely ruin the reputation of an OS that otherwise would be just fine.

Ridiculous unacceptable stuff like the completely unethical forced upgrade strategy, all this crap about not being able to fully opt out of telemetry and dial home stuff, and now the ads everywhere where it does not belong. Hell, not even Chromecast would put ads on places like file manager, task bar and notification area. No sane OS ever would. This is pop-up ads with malware infected Flash stuff level.

The worst part of it all is that aside from those, Windows 10 is actually a good OS. But whoever is dictating to shove so much unacceptable crap in it is risking not only to make this the worst most scummy OS in history, but also to completely ruin Windows and Microsoft's reputation. I know there are plenty of Microsoft and Windows haters here on slashdot, but whether you like it or not, plenty of people still use and like Windows. Now, stuff like BSoD, malware and virus can be acceptable to a point from a technical standpoint. Vista and Me had a whole lot of problems making them some of the most hated versions of the OS, but those problems are in a whole category apart from Windows 10 problems.

All of the major problems in Windows 10 are not only intentional, they serve no other purpose than profiting from users. They have no other practical purpose than making money out of the misery, irritation, poor perception and degradation of user experience. It's like Microsoft is purposedly putting a BSoD scheme on the OS to take money from users. It's unethical, unacceptable and indefensible. It's abuse of power and they know it.

A freaking scummy practice that I would've expected from some freemium mobile app coming from some unknown chinese developer willing to make a quick buck, not an OS used by a huge ammount of professionals in business settings. What value has the Windows name for Microsoft to risk making it look this bad just to profit some more from users? If things continue this way, I dunno why a huge number of users would risk going for a Windows 11 or so. It puts a whole host of things that Microsoft invested truckloads a money at risk. Should I even consider going for a Microsoft backed Augmented or Mixed reality device if it's expected from the company to shove intrusive ads and turn their hardware into spying devices? Should I buy a console system that will try to harvest all the money the company can from me? Should I buy into this Continuum concept of one device for everything if this device is expected to keep pestering me with ads and sending my data back for whatever purpose? F that shit.

Re:Ads are not even the worst part.

[Highdude702]

is that why they have QR codes on BSOD now? Take you right to a "pay $19.99 to fix your windows problems" page.. all make sense now. Glad i crippled the install im on. Broke a few things real quick after install.. Been using the same windows 10 os since the "free upgrade" even used paragon to get it across 4 different motherboards and 3 processors.. never have i seen a BSOD. So, Word to the wise. INSTALL WINDOWS 10. BREAK ANYTHING YOU WONT USE THROUGH A LINUX CLI. Continue to use windows without issues.

Re:Ads are not even the worst part.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Ridiculous unacceptable stuff like the completely unethical forced upgrade strategy, all this crap about not being able to fully opt out of telemetry and dial home stuff, and now the ads everywhere where it does not belong

You just need to stop. Stop totally. If you can't stop totally, stop as MUCH as you can. If you aren't paid to do it on Windows, don't do it on Windows. Techies are classically amazing for seeing just the trees and missing the forest, but in this case it's a SERIOUS problem to miss that forest. That EULA gives them the power to do ANYTHING. You consent to ANYTHING. Read the EULA. You consent to them inspecting everything, sending everything. Disabling a fucking button or service doesn't change what you consented to. That EULA means you don't own a goddamned thing on your box, regardless of what the actual software does. These software issues are not software issues. They are legal problems combined with a management team that is fully aware of where they are driving you to.

There's no technical fix. You won't get there by firing a few fake fuckers either. You need to boycott as MUCH as you can, right now, and never let up. It's your only fucking hope.

Re:Ads are not even the worst part.

[Anonymous Coward]

For what it's worth, Microsoft is aware that Windows use is declining. The largest subset of users (the tech-stupid) are no longer purchasing desktops and laptops that require Windows licenses. The non-technical users that make up the majority of the world have moved toward consumption devices like phones and tablets, the technical users have largely been leaving Windows for either Macs or Linux/BSD. Users that are technical and continue to use Windows are almost entirely PC gamers (with some fringe for businesses that force use of Windows), and that market is shrinking too as more gaming options find their way to Mac and Linux. Vulkan will very likely be the tipping point for games developers, a platform with great performance that can be targetted that works cross-platform is a siren call that most developers can't (and shouldn't) ignore.

Microsoft has already announced that Win10 will be the last version of Windows. Yes, they did it under the guise of updating it but it's essentially admitting that Windows has gone into maintenance mode. They have their annual release that nobody seems to like but after a couple weeks they'll tolerate, but at best it feels like a holding pattern. Windows for now remains the largest installed desktop OS, but it seems that people buying a desktop are becoming fewer and farther between. Many individuals that require a desktop workhorse are looking to use it for the purpose of development and aren't buying Windows licenses. Businesses may buy Windows licenses, but even they're discovering they don't need much more than browser/email/office and you can run Office365 on LInux if you absolutely feel that you need Microsoft Office.

Windows is on the decline, it's holding on for now but mobile has consumed the market that made Windows what it is today.

Re:hello i work for /. and i'm a

[Anonymous Coward]

+1

FUNNY

Bever seen one ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never seen any advertizing in Windows 10 Pro, other than the dreck in the App Store. But then again,m this is a computer, so why would one ever go in there (the Crap store)?

Re:Bever seen one ...

[sabbede]

Netflix and the Win10 version of Minecraft. That's what I use the Store for. Plus I open it after insider updates to see if my AppX permissions were broken.

There is a solution

[Anonymous Coward]

There are solutions to this, but why provide solutions when we can just complain instead.

Re:There is a solution

[TeknoHog]

I'm not complaining. I switched from DOS/Windows to Linux in 1999. But in my experience, most people don't want to hear about alternatives. Sometimes when they see my X terminals they say I must be some kind of a hacker, so I guess the whole Linux thing is somehow intimidating. As if that's the only way to use Linux, but I guess people are used to one single OS looking exactly alike on different users' machines.

It's basically the same Stockholm syndrome you see in failed relationships. People fear stepping out of the familiar territory, even if it would be better for them in the long run. Complaining about Windows or your spouse to your friends or cow-orkers is a shared experience.

Re:There is a solution

[nehumanuscrede]

No offense man, but there are actually applications that folks use that have no Linux variant or replacement that performs on equal footing with its Windows counterpart. Some of us actually require a bit more than a few Xterms and a compiler or two :D

I know everyone loves to say: " Switch to Linux " as the end all, be all answer to the problem but, for some of us, you simply can't. So we improvise.

Examples of some software I use that require Windows:

Zbrush
The entire Adobe CC Suite of products
Rhinocerous 3D and Brazil Renderer
KeyShot
Corel Painter
3DS Max
My DSLR Camera Control Software
The vast majority of Steams Libraries

My solution to Microsoft and their bullshit is rather simple: For the Windows 10 unit, I keep the workstation off the internet. When I have to reauthenticate with Adobe's servers, my ACL's allow connections ONLY to Adobe Servers. Nothing else.

I see no ads.
I see no updates.
All of my software works as expected all the time since the aforementioned updates aren't allowed
Microsoft sees no telemetry.

I still run Win 7 on a physically separate system for my Steam and VR stuff.
I run Mint in a VM when I want to roam the net.

Re:There is a solution

[TeknoHog]

Dude, leave your bedroom, stop jerking off to porn, and learn what the fuck everyone else does with their lives. Fucking around with some half baked OS is not one of them.

I'll tell that to my students in my next workshop later this week. Fortunately, the local school uses Linux, so I don't have to carry around LiveCDs to get an OS that comes with real programming and graphing tools by default.

Re:There is a solution

[thomn8r]

Yeah, well, it's not 1999. Linux failed. It sucks. It's useless for 99% of people,

This - so much this, and I am a sysadmin who does linux 8-12 hours a day.

While Linux is kicking ass in the enterprise, and sending the old guard like HP-UX, Solaris, AIX et al out to pasture, it is not ready for the 99%, and I doubt if it ever will be. Yeah, there's anecdotes about someone's grandmother who installed it just fine, no problem, yada yada yada, but those are extreme corner cases. Linux has become too fragmented to ever have a chance on the desktop, much less in the home. It seems like every other week, there's a new distro, that's almost, but not quite, entirely unlike every other distro. How many different desktops are there? How many different package managers? If someone gets lucky and finds an application to fit their needs, and it's available in the appropriate distro, well fuck, it won't install because it needs gtkshitlibrary-2.6.869.so and the distro shipped with gtkshitlibrary-2.6.867.so which isn't compatible with libgnadslurp-7.34.2202

You have to really want Linux as a desktop and it takes effort and passion. 99.9% of the user base just wants stuff to work and doesn't care or want to see what's under the covers.

Re:There is a solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh shut up, you haven't even tried.

Maybe you need "the entire suite of Adobe products". Probably you NEED one of them, and could make do with alternatives for the others. You could probably (not for sure, but probably) run some of your camera horseshit through WINE, or at least a VM. And then you finish up with "muh vidya".

Super brave of you. You've never even tried to shake Microsoft. You'll put up with anything, justify it.

Re:There is a solution

[phantomfive]

I still run Win 7 on a physically separate system for my Steam and VR stuff.

It doesn't run on Win 10?

Re:There is a solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Just to add more software that people out there use Windows with.

cubase
kontakt instrument series
IKmultimedia series
musiclab series
native instrument series
spitfire audio series
8Dio series
other vst with just a dll

There are no direct replacements for those software, and anyone that wants to change to Linux will need a complete restart of everything. At most, we can hope Wine can at one point support all those to simplified the switch to Linux. But at the current state, Linux isn't the right alternative for every case (maybe macOS would work for this case...).

Of course at the current state, no one like-minded professional with a stable workstation would change their Windows to Windows 10 without a good reason or connect it to the internet.

Also about Linux software, just Gimp is not a good replacement for Adobe Photoshop. As digital artist, you should know the minimum requirements on image creation/editing software without compensating your effort and time. At least add in a few more software like Krita.

You don't say.

[thegarbz]

As much as I like Windows 10 from a technical standpoint I read that entire summary and all I could picture was the Nicholas Cage meme "you don't say!".

Re:The article suggests ads are part of the hidden

[Anonymous Coward]

I am running Win 10 Pro for 8 months now, I used OOSU10 to turn everything off just after installation of 10 and I have never seen an advert in the OS.

Surprised?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is anyone surprised? Why else do you thing they proclaimed this will be the last Windows you have to pay for? Microsoft was dump all these years to realize they are sitting on a goldmine of user data until those web companies like Facebook and Google started raking in millions of dollars from user data.

Learn to customize windows 8.1

[Anonymous Coward]

And be content until 2021. Better OS than Windows 7 and has the bells and whistles of 10 minus the bullshit. Microsoft didn't dump 8.1 and 7 because they suck, they forced 10 out because people would happily use 7 & 8.1 for another 5 years.

Seriously, Server 2012 R2 is the shit and 2012 R2 is windows 8.1 for you systems people. Give 8.1 another look and an Intel i7-6850k.

Fuck windows 10.

Re:Learn to customize windows 8.1

[Highdude702]

Any OS with Windows and Server in the name is just a band-aid for normal windows enviornment. If you really want stability like what a SERVER should have. Try Linux or BSD or hell even OSX. Windows is the WORST desktop OS, Always has been and Always will be until they replace the kernel with Linux or BSD kernel. If youre being forced to use windows as a server environment, you need to take a step back and evaluate your situation. Windows OS has NEVER been safe. Every hacking convention has 20-30 0-day windows os exploits for remote execution that will be sold to one party and never released to anybody else, meaning will be hard pressed to be fixed. Also any "Server" written for windows and no stable server OS should not be used. That means they don't value security or stability. I know what youre going to say "But linux/BSD is so hard" Put your big boy booty shorts on, and man up. Learn how to be GOOD at what you do. I'm self taught. Im an electrician, But ive been using linux since i was a kid and realized windows sucks. Sure I broke a few systems, But thats how you learn. If you dont know how to break it, You'll never know how to fix it.

What Version of Win 10?

[RivenAleem]

I've been using win 10 since release and never seen any adds on it, Maybe because I have the Pro version?

Re:What Version of Win 10?

[Mortimer82]

I just posted the same question. I have been using Pro version at home since Win10's release and also on my work laptop for about 6 months now. I have never seen these adverts. At home it did auto install a little crap from the store, but after uninstalling those particular apps, they never came back. I purposefully bought Windows 7 Pro for my home machine as I make good use of the remote desktop feature.

Re:What Version of Win 10?

[fedos]

You're obviously wrong. All these people who refused to upgrade to Windows 10 insist that it's riddled with ads, so it must be.

Re:What Version of Win 10?

[Gilgaron]

There are ads in one of the tiles in the start menu that you'll almost never notice, and occasional system tray popups to point out that Office 365 would be an upgrade from 2007. I've not seen others. The write-ups on Slashdot make it sound like Taboola is built into the desktop background, but it has been more subtle and relatively easy to ignore since it is essentially pushing for app style purchases... but I can't think of the last time I bought an app for my phone or computer.

Re:What Version of Win 10?

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Windows 10 as a gaming computer. Even when I stream I once in a while get a popup to buy Office 360. It is a bit annoying because it makes me advertise Office 360 on my twitch stream.

Re:What Version of Win 10?

[RivenAleem]

Ah, I neither have Office 2007, nor do I use the start menu. The Win10 computer is purely for gaming (steam) and Netflix (chrome) both of which are shortcutted to.

If you have to use Windows10, use the LTSB version

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pretty much Windows 10 without the stuff that you don't want.

No Windows Store, no Cortana, no Edge, none of the bullshit new apps.

Just use Windows 10 for games

[AHuxley]

Enjoy that Nvidia 1080/ti and play some computer games.
Do your real computing with a real OS.

Here's the cold hard truth.

[geekmux]

Dear 21st Century Society,

So, Windows 10 is nothing more than a "vehicle for ads", riddled with telemetry that spies on you? That's funny, I thought that was exactly what the fuck you turned the entire internet into.

You love your always-on listening devices in your home. You love your telemetry-riddled smart phones, smart cars, and IoT. You love your "free" products and services, and your addiction to social media narcissism. A EULA never stopped you from clicking "I Agree", and you don't care about your entire online identity being bought and sold.

You're proud to let the world know everything about you because you don't give a shit about security or privacy anymore. You haven't for years.

Anyone who assumes otherwise at this point is an idiot. I don't give a shit how many comments show up in some "revealing" article. Nothing will change. If Wikileaks and Edward Snowden couldn't change public perception, you can bet your ass Microsoft won't either.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[thegarbz]

To be clear, people care about their privacy, but they are happy to sell it when deemed not important.

A government pinpointing and knowing details about a specific person is frowned upon even by a person with the most Things connected to the Internet.
A private organisation knowing some details about a random account number, that is anonymised in a database, sold in exchange for a discount on a product (e.g. Facebook), and used within a defined scope (anonymous targetted advertising) on the other hand is very different.

People generally accept someone knowing something about them as long as they don't know *them* directly. Wikileaks and Snowden did change the behaviour but only in relationship to the government for this very reason.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[swb]

Corporate data hoarding and surveillance is kind of scary, but I often think people think of privacy as mattering less and less the further away from their personal spheres it goes. That some details on them may exist in some database far away doesn't matter, but if their co-workers knew they smoked pot and enjoyed anal sex they would be mortified.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[DalM]

I'm plenty happy with ads. Track me to hell, sure, but give me awesome free stuff. Heck, I would let you paint my friggin' house into one giant billboard if you paid my mortgage.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[Anonymous Coward]

theres plenty people that arent on social media AT ALL or have a smartphone

the more the os spies the more and harder those people will get spied on

anyway, it you are using windows 10 for anything else than gaming, you are doing it WRONG anyway

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[drinkypoo]

That some details on them may exist in some database far away doesn't matter, but if their co-workers knew they smoked pot and enjoyed anal sex they would be mortified.

They don't care about the former because they assume that everyone has all their personal data anyway, and because they can't see it affecting their lives. Too bad they don't feel the same way about the other stuff. Then we could have some progress. They're actually only worried about that stuff because they know how judgemental they are, not that most of them would admit it if you asked them. Inside, they know. And they fear.

Sadly, free information is the cure. If people had any idea what percentage of the population enjoyed those things (or other things that they secretly covet and/or enjoy) then nobody would give a crap. Numerically they're in the realm of beer or cigarettes. This is why I am opposed to the right to be forgotten.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[geekmux]

To be clear, people care about their privacy, but they are happy to sell it when deemed not important.

To be clear, people are cheap as hell, and don't buy or sell anything anymore. They happily give it away for free in exchange for using a "free" product. And much like a drug dealer giving out free samples, product addiction plays a part too.

A government pinpointing and knowing details about a specific person is frowned upon even by a person with the most Things connected to the Internet.

Given what consumers happily give up, I'd love to see some proof of this. If they don't care about a capitalist corporation following their every click and move, I find it hard to believe they would care about their government doing the same.

A private organisation knowing some details about a random account number, that is anonymised in a database, sold in exchange for a discount on a product (e.g. Facebook), and used within a defined scope (anonymous targetted advertising) on the other hand is very different.

Ironically, targeted advertising is exactly what it implies. They don't "kind of" know about you. They know you, and when I browse to a completely unrelated website and find the last products *I* looked at on Amazon being served up in ads, it becomes very clear just how targeted and not anonymized data collection is.

People generally accept someone knowing something about them as long as they don't know *them* directly. Wikileaks and Snowden did change the behaviour but only in relationship to the government for this very reason.

People don't have a fucking clue as to what they "generally accept". That would be buried in that EULA they never read and blindly accept.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wikileaks? Privacy? You lost me there. That's an organization who subscribes to wholesale, uncurated and often irrelevant doxing, and has repeatedly come under fire for not protecting the privacy of people or data that is not relevant to the "point" attempted to be made.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[geekmux]

Wikileaks? Privacy? You lost me there. That's an organization who subscribes to wholesale, uncurated and often irrelevant doxing, and has repeatedly come under fire for not protecting the privacy of people or data that is not relevant to the "point" attempted to be made.

Wikileaks may be guilty of collateral damage, but I was mainly speaking of them being host to things like "Vault 7", and the utter inability of those types of revelations to change public behavior regarding privacy. No matter what is leaked or revealed, consumers will never change.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[Anonymous Coward]

To be clear, people are cheap as hell, and don't buy or sell anything anymore. They happily give it away for free in exchange for using a "free" product. And much like a drug dealer giving out free samples, product addiction plays a part too.

Pretty much this. People no longer feel like things are worth paying (or working) for and that everything they want should be given to them. It's especially bad in creative works like software since it's ephemeral and all coders do is put words on a screen, it's not real work!

Given what consumers happily give up, I'd love to see some proof of this. If they don't care about a capitalist corporation following their every click and move, I find it hard to believe they would care about their government doing the same.

I'd personally say that most people don't even know that they're actually giving anything up, or if they do they don't realize exactly how MUCH they're giving up.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[thegarbz]

To be clear, people are cheap as hell, and don't buy or sell anything anymore. They happily give it away for free in exchange for using a "free" product.

It's not that people are cheap but rather:

a) Privacy is of no value
b) An alternative is not available
c) We're getting something cool in return.

Given what consumers happily give up, I'd love to see some proof of this. If they don't care about a capitalist corporation following their every click and move, I find it hard to believe they would care about their government doing the same.

Turn on the news. People generally care a bit more about the government, and don't give a shit about e.g. Facebook. They don't storm the capital, but they do care a bit more.

They don't "kind of" know about you. They know you

Nope, they know the meta me, they almost universally have no access to me, only access to an intermediary which has access to my attention. Kind of like I will tell you right now I'm into telescopes. Cool. Let advertisers know too. Cool I now get telescope ads. That doesn't mean people suddenly know details about me to impersonate me, because they are never given that information. They are only given the access to me. You can be both targeted and anonymised.

People don't have a fucking clue as to what they "generally accept".

They do because if when a EULA differs greatly from a the standard contract it typically hits the news. They don't care about what they generally accept, but they often find out when someone doesn't follow the generally accepted model.

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[erapert]

So... you're saying that Stallman was right all along?

Re:Here's the cold hard truth.

[geekmux]

Given what consumers happily give up, I'd love to see some proof of this. If they don't care about a capitalist corporation following their every click and move, I find it hard to believe they would care about their government doing the same.

Turn on the news. People generally care a bit more about the government, and don't give a shit about e.g. Facebook. They don't storm the capital, but they do care a bit more.

Speaking of not giving a shit, there have been plenty of government shutdowns due to budget issues, and yet no rioting in the streets. To compare, imagine what would happen if you shut down Facebook and all other social media for a week. The masses would lose their fucking minds, which tends to speak volumes as to what they care about.

Marketing 101.

[westlake]

In fact, they lost the grip when they first shipped MS-DOS that was a decade behind other operating systems with its single tasking and lack of memory protection and small memory limits

IBM went out shopping for an OS that would run on the more or less affordable commodity x86 PC hardware available in 1980 and provide a natural upgrade path for developers and small business users familiar with CP/M.

Bonus points for being priced at 1/5 the cost of CP/M-86, retail list. The MS-DOS PC was a viable commercial product before the cloning of the IBM PC BIOS.

Re:Ads infect, slow & track you so... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

I see you removed the testimony from some virus industry guy because I called you out on the link being utterly inaccessible. Nice damage control. 3

It's debatable for sure

[Anonymous Coward]

I have seen the ads in Windows Explorer, I also see them elsewhere in Start menu for Apps and Games. They are something not done by Microsoft before. I don't see them as intrusive as some do, but given that I do pay for the OS installed on any PC I buy. I think that Microsoft is definitely pushing towards being too aggressive in marketing. I think they should limit their marketing to the Microsoft store and App Store where users are looking to purchase something. Not the OS where people expect it to be a functioning part of their PC. However, I see companies like Google and Apple doing just as much subtle ads and data collection through their own means.

Re:The article suggests ads are part of the hidden

[Cederic]

Also, if you like playing Solitaire games, brace for ads. Unless you pay a yearly subscription fee.

Or download and install one of the several hundred freely available alternatives that don't include annual fees or adverts.

Or better yet, skip solitaire and buy Hexcells.

This is weird

[aliquis]

Here's my start menu: .. oh shit! Now I see the ad!!
http://pasteboard.co/ISGO7FKYs...

I saw non at first.. Hardly too bad .. But ok.

I haven't got any Bing! ad through the toolbar. I've got some suggestion about changing to Edge I think but that's kinda expected. No other ads at the toolbar.

I have had no ads on the lock-screen either.

I haven't noticed any OneDrive advertisement from the file explorer and I wouldn't even consider it a .. unrelated ad so to say because it's part of Windows and what Microsoft offer and related and built into the operating-system, it's not like it's for someone elseÂs unrelated product even if I saw it.

So yeah.. I've got one single line in my start menu suggesting a game. Horrible indeed ..

Of course Chrome is also a vehicle for ads. So is Google. So is Facebook. I don't use Instagram, SnapChat, Kik, WhatsApp or haven't bothered actually looking for ads on Twitter but I assume those too are vehicles for ads. That's how they earn money.

Maybe I should be surprised Valve is trying to sell products through Steam too?! Oh the horrors! All the ads!! (To be fair the "just launched the application" ad is kinda disturbing.)

Re:This is weird

[Anonymous Coward]

how did you get this ad. ive yet to see even one. I've seen a hell of a lot of whining about ads but no actual ads :S
Maybe my upgrade from win7 broke it somehow

Re:This is weird

[hyades1]

What did you pay for Chrome?

How much did you pay for Google?

What was your financial outlay for Facebook?

Did you get Windows 10 for free?

Thus endeth the lesson on the difference between ad-supported software and software you pay real money for.

Re:This is weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you get Windows 10 for free?

My father gets Adobe ads, and he didn't get Windows 10 for free. He got it at the cost of his much preferred Windows version, even though he tried cancelling the install (some people claim that there is a way to go back, if so, they can write detailed instructions in a letter and snail mail it to him). From his point of view, he paid more for Windows 10 than it is worth.

Re:This is weird

[Anonymous Coward]

I got Linux for free. No ads.

I got Chromium for free. No tracking or ads.

I don't use Facebook. No tracking or ads.

I use DuckDuckGo. No tracking.

Thus endeth the lesson on the difference between stupid Windows idiots and real computer users.

Re:This is weird

[hyades1]

Ah...another jack-off artist makes his worthless (open source) opinion known.

Re:This is weird

[aliquis]

Did you get Windows 10 for free?

Yes.
I even reinstalled it during the upgrade period when anyone could install it without having paid shit or running a cracked copy simply downloaded from Microsoft with no key whatsoever, something which AFAIK can still be done as long as you "need" the disability features. As for whatever Microsoft cared about that or already viewed my copy as "activated"... That I don't know. I sure as fuck haven't paid for it though and they don't message me anything about it.

Thus endeth the lesson on the difference between ad-supported software and software you pay real money for.

Yeah. They wish. Or maybe they are just happy enough that I actually use it nowadays.
The reason I use it is games and I've bought 1000+ so at-least I cover what I use and much more there.

Re:This is weird

[aliquis]

On the other hand I don't have a problem paying the Internet cost of a Windows license of $35-40 either.
Even if it list ONE GAME ENTRY IN THE START MENU!!

However I don't know the origin of those copies, if they are just "stolen" by people who get an unlimited amount from universities or something such then I don't see what that contributes. It's Microsoft who deserves the money and I don't want to support trading of stolen property / paying people for abuse / whatever. If they are just licenses bought in a cheaper country then I'm ok with it because at-least the money go towards Microsoft.

Re:This is weird

[aliquis]

how did you get this ad. ive yet to see even one. I've seen a hell of a lot of whining about ads but no actual ads :S
Maybe my upgrade from win7 broke it somehow

I wanted to see the credibility of this claim so I went to the start menu and expected the large wide one but got a smaller one and saw no ad there, scrolled through the list but nothing obvious.
So I wanted to take a screenshot of it and opened it again and there it was!

If I click the start-menu now then it's not there:
http://pasteboard.co/IZVz5bOXm...
So it can't always be there and I guess then that it wasn't there the first time when I didn't see it.

The start menu is complete shit for all I care with way to much of their own stuff and so many entries and then the folders for other companies and if it listed my 130-140 currently installed Steam titles ... yeah .. I don't really use it, I just search, which is what I would had done in OS X too. Speaking of which I've installed some more powerful process manager from Microsoft and some other thing and I don't even know where to put them in Windows. It may just be exe-files, in this case also a "compiled html help file" whatever file extensions that has, I don't know where to store those in Windows, should they be in C:\Windows and I just have to live with any mess there or is there some user installed directory too? In the DOS days one could change the paths it searched for commands right? So I assume maybe one could do some dir for them onself somewhere?

Uuhh?

[Anonymous Coward]

I genuinely haven't seen a single ads, ever, since the very first day of the free upgrade, on Windows 10.
Be it when I use Chrome or use the computer in general, NO ADS.

This person is obviously doing something wrong.

Re:Hey, you insensitive clod

[Anonymous Coward]

I used WinME! On a Gateway computer. FWIW, I also once owned a Chevy Vega. And a Ford Pinto.

Comparision with competition

[DrYak]

And, somehow, Microsoft is responsible of the shit that NVIDA puts in its drivers, obviously.

Given that Microsoft is making the only platform where it is possible for Nvidia to show said slideshow of adds, yes, indeed, Microsoft might be sharing a bit of the responsibility.

(e.g.: under Linux you add the 3rd party repository from Nvidia containing the driver to you package manager, and then let the package manager handle the installation as with any other base or 3rd party package. At most, some package manager can show *textual* release notes or licensing information.)

(on the other hand:
- the official market for NVidia on Linux is professional users who use the cards for art rendering, scientific computations, etc.
They pay already premium for the card. And there might not even be a human user to see the ads during the upgrade of some node on the compute cluster.
- the biggest market for Nvidia on Windows is mostly gamers.
So shove as much ads as possible down their throats to get them to buy even more extra useless gizmos.
And don't be afraid, they'll come back to the (overfilled with ads) installer next week, when they need the latest patch with hacks for optimise that week's new game.)

Re:Comparision with competition

[Daemonik]

If they wanted, nVidia could write a Linux driver installer that showed you ads. The Linux install base is so small it's not worth it to them.

Your package manager isn't magic, and it only works because nVidia packages their drivers for simplicity. So check your smug.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Assmasher]

Ridiculous. You can run nVidia installs silently on Windows if you choose. I have also seen executable based installers on Linux that show advertisements.

It's the same silly argument where people blame Microsoft for all BSODs when, again nVidia being the majority culprit, bad drivers are the root cause - then people like yourself say "well, Microsoft should build a driver model that doesn't allow for BSODs."

Re:Comparision with competition

[ArchieBunker]

The other way to look at it is not enough people use the Linux driver for them to even bother with advertising.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a moron. Just because you can install NVIDIA drivers via a repo on Linux and you "can't" on Windows is not a reason to share blame.

I can just as easily run msiexec to silently install the same driver package. Or even better: https://chocolatey.org/packages?q=nvidia

Re:Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

If they wanted, nVidia could write a Linux driver installer that showed you ads. The Linux install base is so small it's not worth it to them.

Your package manager isn't magic, and it only works because nVidia packages their drivers for simplicity. So check your smug.

I just knew tat someone would make the installed user base argument. So we should all install Windows 10 so we can see those ads because..... better! More users! Famous cigarettes!

Most of us hate ads, don't want ads, do anything we can do to block ads. You tout it as a mark of how "popular" Windows is, like extolling the virtues of a Toyota Corolla or Trabant over cars that sell less, like a Corvette or a Tesla.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

Ridiculous. You can run nVidia installs silently on Windows if you choose. I have also seen executable based installers on Linux that show advertisements.

It's the same silly argument where people blame Microsoft for all BSODs when, again nVidia being the majority culprit, bad drivers are the root cause - then people like yourself say "well, Microsoft should build a driver model that doesn't allow for BSODs."

Or you could do like Apple does. Writes their own.

This driver issue with Windows has gone on a long time. Personally I don't care who's at fault. My problem isn't fault. My problem is I'm sitting in front of a computer that won't do it's job. If I have a Operating system that is superior above all, but surrounded by incompetence, well it hardly matters the gemllike perfection of the operating system, does it?

Re:Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

The other way to look at it is not enough people use the Linux driver for them to even bother with advertising.

Well first off, congratulations for an attempt to make a really really bad annoying problem into a celebration of the installed user base.

Then do you have some idea that it is so difficult to write the adware into the driver that a few hours is a bridge too far?

differential diagnosis: Linux users won't put up with that bullshit.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Daemonik]

You're the one getting butt hurt over numbers. Numerically, the Linux/nVidia install base isn't big enough to justify writing a custom installer with ads. You don't like ads, so why is that a bad thing? I didn't say it was a bad thing, I didn't say it was a good thing, it just is.

I did advise the person I responded to that they shouldn't feel special like somehow Linux is anti-advertisement, or that every program *has* to use their distro's installer, which they were being very smug about. There is nothing in Open Source that says a project can't use ads to pay for development.

Re:Comparision with competition

[bondsbw]

differential diagnosis: Linux users won't put up with that bullshit.

This is spot on. Which means that any successful attempt to significantly expand the user base of Linux would pull in people who don't care, which would then give advertisers a road into pushing ads across the experience.

See: Android. True Linux users would never let their device be locked down and laden with ads, yet nearly every Android device in existence is locked down out of the box by the OEM and/or carrier. And some of those go to lengths to make it difficult or impossible to root/unlock. And sure enough, most apps have ads and even the customized OS has it baked in.

Re:Comparision with competition

[LVSlushdat]

During the now-long-past time I tried Windows 10, on a system with Nvidia graphics, the ONLY "Nvidia" graphics driver that gave me any problems was the shitshow one that WU insists upon installing, no matter what the setting that is *supposed* to tell WU to leave system drivers the FUCK ALONE.. With the WU driver installed, the system blew endless BSOD's pointing to that driver.. If I disabled the WU service and installed the correct Nvidia driver from the Nvidia website, all was good in Nvidia-land... Of course, its not a good idea to run Windows without updates, but from what I've seen of Windows 10, its either get malware from Microsoft with updates turned on or malware from other badguys with updates turned off.. I don't worry anymore about this as I'm back on Linux, and laughing my ass off at the abuse MS heaps on those who still use Windows...

Re:Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

You're the one getting butt hurt over numbers. Numerically, the Linux/nVidia install base isn't big enough to justify writing a custom installer with ads.

I use OSX Linux, and Windows. It would be kinda weird to get butthurt over numbers.

I use whatever will do the job better.

And just out of curiousity, exactly what is the degree of difficulty in writing the code to serve up ads that makes it prohibitive to do this in Linux? You made the claim, you do the explain. If your logic held true, there wouldn't be a driver written for Linux at all - no driver period.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

> If they wanted, nVidia could write a Linux driver installer that showed you ads.

Not really. Their shit would be repackaged and modified. Right now, they can't even write a Linux driver installer PERIOD, so assuming that they could throw adverts is deluded.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Daemonik]

I use OSX Linux, and Windows. It would be kinda weird to get butthurt over numbers.

Yet you burst out saying that I was "touting" Windows popularity over Linux etc etc. when I only made a relative comparison and no claims of better or worse. I stated a numerical fact. You brought the baggage.

And just out of curiousity, exactly what is the degree of difficulty in writing the code to serve up ads that makes it prohibitive to do this in Linux? You made the claim, you do the explain. If your logic held true, there wouldn't be a driver written for Linux at all - no driver period.

Difficulty isn't the issue per se, it's the investment of development time to write an installer that displays ads vs the expected return for said ads. Are we talking a fortune? No, but it's not something they've chosen to do, so far, either. The point is that it isn't impossible just because it's Linux.

Re:Comparision with competition

[ArmoredDragon]

The whole nvidia thing is a moot point; you don't even need to get that far to see the ads. Here's a collection of ads that have been found on Windows 10:

Ad to install Microsoft's shopping extension:
https://www.cnet.com/news/wind...

Ad to buy tomb raider from Windows store:
https://www.howtogeek.com/2432...
(Side note: This is why Microsoft no longer allows you to disable the lock screen on desktop systems. Yes, you can turn the lock screen ads off, but Microsoft wants you to get used to seeing it there meanwhile.)

Ad to browse bing for rewards points:
http://core0.staticworld.net/i...

Ad to install Office:
http://images.techhive.com/ima...

Ads to buy Solitaire:
http://images.techhive.com/ima...
(Side note: Windows 10 now includes lots of freemium and trialware apps in general, like Candy Crush, which is another form of advertising. Also, didn't solitaire used to be totally free?)

Ads in the share tool:
https://betanews.com/wp-conten...
(In that screenshot, most of these apps aren't installed, thus these are ads to install these apps.)

Ads in the ink workspace:
http://cdn.windowsreport.com/w...

Ad telling you to stop using firefox:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/l6JL...

Ad telling you to stop using chrome:
http://www.laptopmag.com/image...

Another ad telling you to switch to edge for bing rewards:
https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-c...

Ad telling you to subscribe to onedrive:
http://images.techhive.com/ima...

Ad to buy apps on the start menu:
https://davescomputertips.com/...

So TFA is correct, windows 10 IS an ad platform.

Re:Comparision with competition

[ArchieBunker]

What would you do, NOT use the driver and run your $600 video card in VESA mode?

Re:Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

What would you do, NOT use the driver and run your $600 video card in VESA mode?

A pity that it's BOHICA time.

If you have to run that card, and you have to use Windows, then you might as well sit back and enjoy the bangin'.

Me? I'd simply not buy the card. Fuck 'em if they have to invade your computer with ads. Now go to forbes.com and get your free ransomware. Otherwise you can't see their content.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

I use OSX Linux, and Windows. It would be kinda weird to get butthurt over numbers.

Yet you burst out saying that I was "touting" Windows popularity over Linux etc etc. when I only made a relative comparison and no claims of better or worse. I stated a numerical fact. You brought the baggage.

Dude. you stated:

"The Linux install base is so small it's not worth it to them." Okay - now prove that that is a fact. That dear sir, is an opinion, not a fact.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Ridiculous. You can run nVidia installs silently on Windows if you choose. I have also seen executable based installers on Linux that show advertisements.

It's the same silly argument where people blame Microsoft for all BSODs when, again nVidia being the majority culprit, bad drivers are the root cause - then people like yourself say "well, Microsoft should build a driver model that doesn't allow for BSODs."

Or you could do like Apple does. Writes their own.

This driver issue with Windows has gone on a long time. Personally I don't care who's at fault. My problem isn't fault. My problem is I'm sitting in front of a computer that won't do it's job. If I have a Operating system that is superior above all, but surrounded by incompetence, well it hardly matters the gemllike perfection of the operating system, does it?

Apple doesn't write their own Nvidia drivers...nor do they support the latest technologies or offer hardware that isn't 5+ years old. So your lack of a problem is because the solution is garbage.

Re:Comparision with competition

[nuckfuts]

... windows 10 IS an ad platform.

The entire f**cking Internet is an ad platform. Windows 10 is but one of the players.

Re: Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that there are ads for the Windows install then it suggests that there is a general interest in generating revenue in this way. That there is not for Linux installs suggests a number of possible scenarios, such as the presumption that few people will run a custom installer as compared to a package manager, or that the revenue to be generated by a custom installer is not worth the effort, or the possibility that no-one sufficiently highly placed in nvidia has even considered doing in in Linux, but might if they see this thread

Re:Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is a local operating system for personal computers. It should have zero ads and full user control.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

>Windows 10 is but one of the players.

Young'n why are they a player at all? That's the insult. You may not remember when it was an operating system that was the life of your computer. Now it's the life, the cosmetic look, the ad-platform, the store, the in-house gaming/media portal...

Do you see? MS found a way to 'get there first' because the other players were already there. That makes them late to the game, rude, and worst of all... controlling jerks who want to siphon dollars away from us (because we've learned to recognize ads in the webspace). Now, it's hard to separate the two and that was done maliciously.

So yeah, maybe they are just 'one of the players' now, but they're insidious and too 'in your face' that regular adsvertising venues. We haded pop-ups, pop-unders, and click bate for a long time... what makes you think Win 10 suddenly legitimizes the same behaviors in something as close to us as the OS?

Crickets?

Re:Comparision with competition

[sabbede]

I'm having trouble figuring out if you're advocating Windows or Linux. Kinda sounds like you're saying linux has inferior installation options - You have to manually add repositories instead of just running an executable and there's no support for graphics. Come to think of it, just finding the right package name can take as long as finding a download, and if you have to add a repository you need to find the right URL, put it in your list, refresh your repos, and then search for the right package name. I'm starting to appreciate getting a driver with a few clicks then getting to look at sometimes cool pictures instead of just a progress indicator. That's incalculably more entertaining.

Dude, I'm sold. Windows for the win thanks to Dr. Yak!

Re:Comparision with competition

[Daemonik]

Fact: nVidia writes their own blob and adapts it to the Linux kernel rather than open source their drivers.
Fact: nVidia fixes bugs but does not optimize this blob for Linux, it's the same blob Windows users get.
Fact: You are a pedant.
Fact: The number of installed Linux users using nVidia cards is insignificant in comparison to Windows users.
Fact: Windows users get ads, Linux users don't.
Fact: You are incapable of debating your point so you debate endless minor nit picks instead.
Fact: You can't prove that Linux has any mechanism in it to defeat ads being included during software install. So shut it, this thread is done.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

And yet, you cannot provide me with the one "fact" I asked for.

Noted.

I'll ask again real nicely.

Give me the citation from NVidia that tells us they didn't include ads because of the numbers of Linux users.

Otherwise, it's your opinionNothing more, nothing less. And dear sir, if you think wanting an actual citation in support of your argument is nitipcking, you shouldn't accuse others of inability to debate.

Re: Comparision with competition

[Ol Olsoc]

Given that there are ads for the Windows install then it suggests that there is a general interest in generating revenue in this way. That there is not for Linux installs suggests a number of possible scenarios, such as the presumption that few people will run a custom installer as compared to a package manager, or that the revenue to be generated by a custom installer is not worth the effort, or the possibility that no-one sufficiently highly placed in nvidia has even considered doing in in Linux, but might if they see this thread

Yes, that is plausible. I can believe that Nvidia would decide that including the advertisements in their Linux drivers would not be worth the effort. My informed guess is that like myself, most Linux folk would be really pissed about it.

Re: Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the day we had to compile our own driver.

Nvidia did themselves a _huge_ favor making it easier because hundreds of times more people could use the Linux driver. Just click a button. No more having to check versions, track down sources, and then finally compile a driver that may or may not be worth the trouble it took to make it.

Ohh yea, and when you update your distro, better remember to compile a new module because next boot you won't get X, then of course there's no Firefox either to look up the recipe to unfuck yourself. I used lynx for that...

Re:Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple does NOT write their own nvidia driver ffs.

Re:Comparision with competition

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't mention a single lock screen ad in that list.

I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[Mortimer82]

I run Windows 10 Professional on both my personal machine at home (I use remote desktop pretty often) and work machine, and I have never seen these adverts. Is it a home edition "feature" only?

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[DalM]

It's there, but it's just not NEARLY as obtrusive as the article makes it out to be.

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[Anonymous Coward]

It's obtrusive that the OS you paid for (or didn't depending upon how you got it) serves you ads AT ALL. Not that they're minimalistic, infrequent, and helpful. It's that the OS shouldn't do that. Period. The OS isn't for ads... but since we can uninstall apps (mostly), MS knew they needed to put them somewhere that it took too much effort to hack them out.

They bank on user apathy.

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[DalM]

So... are you similarly upset that Apple and Google literally do the EXACT SAME THING with iOS and Android? If you don't think they are tracking you and don't think they are sending you ads, then you are mistaken. iOS and Android are just as much ad ware was Windows 10. (Probably MacOS too, but I haven't used it in a long time.)

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[Anonymous Coward]

So... are you similarly upset that Apple and Google literally do the EXACT SAME THING with iOS and Android?

Of course, which is why I don't use Apple or Google products. Or microsoft either for this matter.

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never had an ad from Apple on my iPhone.

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[DalM]

Are you sure? Because they have a whole division they call iAds. https://developer.apple.com/su... I guess they don't use that much.

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[DalM]

Ok, so they killed iAds specifically. Shut up. They still send you ads. Lots of ads.

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[DalM]

Ask Siri a question and see if she comes up with an ad. http://searchads.apple.com/

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[munch117]

Perhaps you live in a region of the world where MS has chosen not to serve ads? I'm pretty sure the EU is one such region.

Re:I have never seen these Windows 10 adverts

[sabbede]

You hit the key point, but ran right over it and kept going. "Or didn't depending on how you got it". Microsoft isn't a non-profit, and nothing in life is free. You can pay extra for the Pro or Enterprise versions, of you can see some ads.

I don't like it either, but I can't expect them to decide to stop making money.

App to remove Windows 10 junk?

[valnar]

I'm still happy running Windows 7 on all my computers. If/when I have to upgrade to 10, is there an application out there that customizes and turns off all the crap for you? I know there have been many articles about settings you can tweak to make it tolerable, but I figure somebody has condensed that into something more automatic? Like a GWX Control Panel for Windows 10?

Re:App to remove Windows 10 junk?

[TheReaperD]

Yep, Spybot Anti-Beacon to the rescue!

Re:App to remove Windows 10 junk?

[Anonymous Coward]

The best tool is probably this: http://www.google.co.za/search...

Re:App to remove Windows 10 junk?

[sabbede]

I dunno, I use the Pro and Enterprise versions and just flip some switches.

Different Experience?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never seen a windows ad in Win 10. Of course, I go out of my way to uninstall cortana, and install classic shell. Things work fine, so this is more of a end user education issue than an OS problem. The only "ads" I see are from Epson, Nvidia, and Avast. All products which I have paid for, but still shovel piles of poop in my face.

I don't feel the same urgency in windows 10 that I felt in my move off of Linux on the desktop. Between KDE and Amarok being taken over by incompetent UI design engineers and the complete lack of gaming, I had to move back to windows as a primary desktop.

A Certain Inevitability

[ytene]

As someone forced to purchase new Windows 10 Licenses for 3 new-build PCs recently, I am extremely annoyed with Microsoft's strategy of using the Operating System to spy on and make money from their users. However, I don't see this situation changing - and here's why:-

When Microsoft licensed copies of earlier editions of Windows to large PC manufacturers [the likes of Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, Lenovo, and so on] they would charge something in the region of $15 per copy of Windows. That amount covered the cost of generating holograms and tracking the number of licenses issues, as well as adding [given the volumes involved] quite a bit to Microsoft's bottom line. However, this was quickly offset the moment you moved away from these volume channels to smaller vendors, local "Mom+Pop" PC support shops - because even though this channels were charged an awful lot more per license, there was also much greater piracy involved.

With Windows 10, Microsoft are charging $1.49 per month, or $9.99 per year to disable advertising just in their free desktop applications [i.e. Solitaire]. However, that payment does not stop your copy of Windows 10 from slurping vast amounts of usage data from your PC and sending it to Microsoft. Obviously, they then use that data to build detailed profiles which they sell to advertisers. Expect much more of this to happen in the future. The remarkable thing is, estimates suggest that Microsoft could be earning as much as $15 per year per user from this "sale" of their user base to advertisers and other consumers of bulk data.

So if you were Microsoft, and faced with generating an average one-off fee of $15 per paid copy of your OS, or earning $15 a year from "giving it away", which would you choose?

Much as I hate to say it, I think this is with us for good now. And, bad as it is, this isn't my greatest fear. No, what is worse is that my favourite GNU/Linux distributions could take a look at the Microsoft model and think, "Hey, we could do that" - and before we know where we are, everything has gone the Canonical/Ubunut route and all our favourite FOSS platforms are also shipping with spyware by default... Let's hope that doesn't come to pass...

Re:A Certain Inevitability

[divali]

"As someone forced to purchase new Windows 10 Licenses for 3 new-build PCs recently," "Forced" Don't be silly.

Re:A Certain Inevitability

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe Canonical did try to go that route and was forced by public pressure to stop (or at least to turn off such things by default). The real threat as far as Linux goes is Android and Android-like OSes.

Re:A Certain Inevitability

[jbmartin6]

Could you clarify the $1.49 per month to disable advertising? I must have missed something. Some sort of membership or something like that that is built into their games now?

Re:A Certain Inevitability

[Anonymous Coward]

FOSS can be forked. Anything GPL would be invulnerable, even if compromised the code must be kept open unless you can get every single person who has ever contributed to it to agree to a license change so the code will always have to be open unless completely rewritten from scratch without any of the existing GPL code.

It's also extremely likely that even if every existing distro decided to do something like that, a new one would form that refused. Its hard to kill an idea, and there are many people in FOSS that keep ideology first and foremost.

Re:A Certain Inevitability

[sabbede]

Look at it from the other direction - Users want Windows to do everything, work perfectly, and be free. Microsoft wants to make a profit.

If users want no ads and no telemetry, they can totally have it. In exchange for money.

Re:A Certain Inevitability

[ytene]

I for one, would be ***totally*** happy with that arrangement.

Bear in mind that when I purchased my copies of Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit from Microsoft, they cost me £220 each (including VaT). Yet even when they charge me, Microsoft are still harvesting all my activity data which they are then selling - and making a significant profit on.

But to your point - if Microsoft were willing to sell a £200 copy of Windows 10 with no harvesting, or give me a free copy *with* harvesting [or, say, for the cost of the media], then I'd take the paid version every time. The thing is, they will refuse to do that. If we could ask them why, I suspect they would come out with some complete nonsense story, like "it's not possible to split the code between the two versions", which [let's be honest] is just another version of "Internet Explorer is part of the Operating System now, we can't split it out".

The really [hilarious/scary/offensive/insulting] thing is: they actually have a privacy policy on their web site. It's here

https://privacy.microsoft.com/...

if you are interested... Not worth reading, however, since it just says [I summarise for you], "We harvest data about you, and reserve the right to do whatever we want with it. Oh - except that we don't use your personal data to target ads to you."

That last bit might sound very magnanimous of them, until you realise that whilst Microsoft might promise not to use your personal data to target ads to you, there is nothing stopping them selling your personal data to third parties so that *they* can target ads at you! The problem with widespread data collection is simple: leaks happen. You cannot leak what you don't collect. No matter how sincere, no matter how honourable they may be, Microsoft are not infallible. If they build up profiles on their users for marketing purposes [and: that's exactly what they are doing] and those profiles got into the hands of criminals, then as users we would be all out of luck...

Re:A Certain Inevitability

[sabbede]

If you picked up Pro copies, you can turn that stuff off, strip crap from the image ("Get Office" and the rest of the built in crap packages), edit the image so it installs with telemetry and CEIP off, etc., etc. Something I really need to do again at work, I've let our images get way out of date. Remind me to bug my boss to pull the latest image from the volume licensing center.

Re:Ads infect, slow & track you so... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 doesn't use DNS for ads and tracking, so... cool story bro.

Try win10 pro

[Anonymous Coward]

I was a massive critic of win10. I upgraded from 7pro to 10pro...not having any of the trouble everyone keeps going on about.....

Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[ScooterComputer]

I want Candy Crush gone from my Win10 box. I have no interest in it. Apparently all of my clients feel the same.

But
It JUST. WON'T. DIE!

Worse, folks don't seem to associate that if they right-click and Uninstall, that next 10 minutes of slow internet/computer is thanks to background file transfer/install of Windows putting the crapware back on. They do it over and overand over in defiant hope it will magically disappear, under the mistaken impression they've done something wrong. (Along with Paid Wi-Fi, Minecraft, Twitter, etc)

Whatever happened to the old skool idea that the USER controlled the computer? Where, oh, where is Tron when we need him most??

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[Gilgaron]

I've been ignoring that tile, but it occurs to me that the thing to do might be to find where it is and rename a text file to the executable, set ready only, and then hopefully they won't be able to overwrite it. Used to do stuff like that back in the day to kill banner ads in chat programs.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[brxndxn]

I don't understand how Microsoft hasn't been sued to oblivion yet by a big serious company, or maybe all the world's utility companies, or the defense industry.. Think about it.. You have a company with a monopoly on the operating system that is on damn near every desktop computer and laptop.. and that company decides they're going to send your data back to itself, update your computer whenever it wants, and now install advertisements and bloatware without your permission. Microsoft is either stupid or evil.. and it cannot possibly be this stupid.

Industrial control systems typically run on Windows. WTF is gonna happen when they're running Windows 10 and the IT management people can't lock it down? Engineers and scientists use Windows.. and now they also get Candy Crush. Medical equipment and hospitals run on Windows.. and now Windows needs to update right now "FUCK YOU, I'M UPDATING."

Yes.. I can run linux.. or Mac.. But where Microsoft is currently sitting, I don't know how anyone can say they haven't crossed the red line on abusing their monopoly.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[Anonymous Coward]

WinAeroTweaker can disable those forced installs (for now), based on a registry/Group Policy change: http://www.ghacks.net/2016/03/02/turn-off-microsoft-consumer-experience/

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not installed. It never was (unless you tried to run it, then it had to download and install first). To get it to go away, you have to set:

- Settings > Privacy > General > blah blah Advertising ID blah blah: OFF
- Settings > Personalization > Start > blah blah suggestions blah blah: OFF

Then Candy Crush will vanish and so will the rest of the ads. This is basically the Microsoft-provided middle-finger-to-Microsoft that they don't make obvious for reasons that should be obvious. They want your eyeballs and data and the money from shitty companies like King. But they also would face a regulatory shit-storm if they didn't provide a way to opt out. So they make the way to opt out so plain and boring that nobody will think to change it. And simultaneously, they split it into two pieces so that either one of them alone can be ignored (because the settings directly contradict each other until they're both changed).

The user is still in control. They just don't want most users to know that.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 Enterprise Edition doesn't do those things. It's perfectly OK with Microsoft if you'd rather hear "FUCK YOU, PAY ME" than "FUCK YOU, I'M UPDATING".

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[sabbede]

Users wanted Windows, but didn't want to keep having to pay for it. Microsoft used the same solution TV, Radio and the internet use.

Users didn't want to see errors or crashes, they got telemetry. Users didn't want to have to keep things up-to-date but did want the benefits and security, they got forced automatic updates.

Microsoft can be greedy dicks, but so can users.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[painandgreed]

Industrial control systems typically run on Windows. WTF is gonna happen when they're running Windows 10 and the IT management people can't lock it down? Engineers and scientists use Windows.. and now they also get Candy Crush. Medical equipment and hospitals run on Windows.. and now Windows needs to update right now "FUCK YOU, I'M UPDATING."

The same thing that happened back under Win7 (and probably earlier) which had similar but fewer such issues. Microsoft will just direct you to a KB article that will begin with "If you wish to turn off these features, have your Active Directory Administrator make the following changes in your Domain tree:..."

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[Anonymous Coward]

You can turn all the crappy stuff off in the Enterprise version of Windows, which is what all the businesses buy. Normal Windows is not licensed for medical equipment. If medical or industrial equipment is using consumer copies of Windows then you can probably taddle on them and get a nice pay out. Microsoft does have embedded and real-time versions of Windows which are nothing like normal Windows and are designed for those markets. If IT can't lock down any OS they should be fired. At the very least they should be able to block Microsoft spying at the corporate firewall.

Ignoring all that for a moment, Microsoft is yet again late to the party. The other companies already have similar data mining methods in place. If they sued Microsoft, they'd be facing the exact same lawsuit next month. The few companies who aren't data mining are also moving towards it. Data mining and shoving ads down people throats works, at least in the short term. There's plenty of scientific studies backing it up.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[JohnFen]

Users wanted Windows, but didn't want to keep having to pay for it.

Huh? I must have missed the huge outcry from users over having to pay for earlier versions of Windows.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[sabbede]

http://www.techrepublic.com/ar...

Not just the headline, the article is chock full of statements like, "After all, no one expects to pay for an OS anymore."

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[JohnFen]

I'm not seeing how that article offers a rebuttal to my comment. It's essentially a marketing piece about addressing the piracy issue in China.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[sabbede]

By piracy, do you mean "people refusing to pay for software but using it anyway"? Are you sure you don't see how that supports my point?

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[JohnFen]

I see the point you're making, I'm just not seeing its importance to my point. Microsoft is changing Windows into an ad vehicle not because people were unwilling to pay for Windows. They're changing it into an ad vehicle because they didn't like how people paid for Windows: as part of the purchase price of new computers. In other words, it's not that people aren't willing to pay, it's that people aren't willing to buy as often as Microsoft would like.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[sabbede]

Ah, okay. I don't like the way they're going either, but I can see why they would. Part of it is how they're changing their entire update/upgrade model to an SaS deal (which I'm not into), meaning that in the end they may never "sell" another copy. I think they also lost the sweetheart deal they used to force on manufacturers - that whole "microsoft tax"/"you're paying for a license for every computer you sell even if you don't install Windows on it" thing. Yeah, it was total BS, but from their perspective it's a loss that has to be recouped.

So in the end, I don't like it but I understand it and get where they're coming from. Still, I'd rather just pay $100 every few years for an upgrade license. Full disclosure: I'm being a little shitty when I say that as I have rarely had to pay for it at all and never paid full price. I've gotten licenses from work, school, or picked up student copies or resold volume licenses. Meaning I'm one of the people who encouraged Microsoft to make this move. Sorry.

Re:Ugh, and the ZOMBIE "ad" apps

[JohnFen]

So in the end, I don't like it but I understand it and get where they're coming from.

Yes, I also have no trouble understanding where they're coming from. They're being draconian, as they have always been and is their right. It is, after all, their OS and they can do anything they want with it.

It's up to everyone else to decide whether or not they want to accept Microsoft's terms. I think that the reason people are really pissed about the whole thing is because it would cost them a lot of time and money in order to stop using Windows. Often, a prohibitive amount. So, it can begin to feel a bit like extortion.

The reality is that Microsoft is being true to form here. They're taking this as far as they can, and when they take one step too far and anger enough people that it looks like their profit margin might be affected, they will step back one step. Much like they did with Metro.

What does Windows 10 do that Android and iOS don't

[DalM]

MS is just copying Apple again.

there should be a windows 10 hack

[Anonymous Coward]

There should be a program that cripples Windows 10 spyware, and advertising. It is easier than developing a complete desktop environment. I'd rather pay $150 for a good Desktop Environment w/ OS, instead of a free one with advertising. I hope Apple hasn't given up on the Desktop yet.

Re:there should be a windows 10 hack

[nomadic]

Linux makes an excellent desktop OS, as long as you don't need to run any useful programs.

Amazing!!! People allow abuse.

[Futurepower(R)]

Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made.

Quote: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC."

Bullshit

[fedos]

Except for the occasional "recommended" app in the Start menu (and not prominently placed at that), I've not seen any ads from the Win10 OS.

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

Ads on TV? Bullshit.

Except for the occasional "recommended" washing detergents and fast food restaurants in the middle of TV shows, I've not seen any ads on TV.

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't see them so it must be bullshit!"

Stop it Ballmer.. you don't work for MS anymore.

Re:Bullshit

[Anonymous Coward]

My senile old mom calls me all the time scared that she has installed sometyhing new or has gotten a virus. Thank you Microsoft for scaring my mother...

Re:The article suggests ads are part of the hidden

[Anonymous Coward]

There are lots of options to get the Win7 version running on Win10. Of course it's fucking ridiculous that you should have to do this: pay attention everyone, Microsoft specifically broke backwards compatibility so they could charge for the "new" versions of these games. Sure, you may not care, but wait until they start doing this for productivity software...

Re:The article suggests ads are part of the hidden

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is going to slowly erode away functionality and then try to sell them back as subscriptions. Anybody who is using Windows 10 is a sucker.

A sucker is born every minute

[Anonymous Coward]

Or in Windows 10 case, every 0.0010 seconds.

Re:The article suggests ads are part of the hidden

[nomadic]

But...but...M$!

New name

[Anonymous Coward]

Winads 10.

Not forced to do anything

[Anonymous Coward]

You were NOT forced to do anything. You choose to install a Windows OS for some reason(s). That could have been FUD or some need to run the $500 software you've already paid for. I dunno.

But don't act like it was forced onto you.

Similarly, when their recent, heavy-handed push for Windows updates began, my house started our own campaign against MSFT. We didn't accept their terms. We didn't allow patches. Eventually, when MSFT became criminal and did force load a Win10 OS onto one of our systems (I'm still waiting for the bandwidth cheque from them), I rolled it back to Win7. Then I disabled all updates and blocked all Microsoft-related network sites at the router. Seems MSFT added a security feature to ignore the /etc/hosts files on their OSes for Windows updates. We haven't patched any Win7 machine in over a year. Things have been fine.

But we've been a mainly Linux house for about a decade. It is much easier today than ever before to make the switch. It isn't painless, but common things are really easy on Linux these days. Plus you don't need to buy new hardware with every MSFT OS release that sucks more CPU/RAM and disk. I remember running WinXP on a 20G disk. Then Vista needed 30G, then Win7 wanted 60G, don't know after that - stopped getting newer Windows versions.

You can do the same - or switch to a Mac for most things if you are really afraid. Worst case, keep Windows around on 1 system, inside a VM, to run Quicken. Use it once a week. Do everything else in Linux. You'll start to appreciate having control over your computers, not the other way around.

But never say that MSFT forced you to do anything. It was your choice.

Re:Ads infect, slow & track you so... apk

[nomadic]

Finally! I don't really trust system-modifying software unless it's linked to me by an anonymous forum user.

Just my own paranoid, delusional speculation here

[thegreatbob]

I would not be too surprised to find out that the ads were meant to through up a smoke screen to drown out the more significant technical/privacy complaints in the "mainstream" media. I don't actually see much to suggest that this is what is happening, but I still would not be surprised.

amazon kindles

[goombah99]

they are sold for two prices, with ads and without ads.

Windows 10 Is Just A Vehicle For Advertisements?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me just quote Arnold Schwarzenegger... "No shit."

I mean really? Windows 8 was a disaster. 8.1 didn't do much better. Why the hell would anyone expect 10 to do better? I mean, they skipped over 9 for some... vague reason.

I still have Windows 7, which I never did install anything to do with Telemetry either.

THANK YOU

[gosand]

We here at SuperGlobalMegaCorp appreciate your feedback and find it very valuable.
You will be happy to know that we are already working on the next generation of ads that will be impossible to ignore.

It made me abandon Windows totally.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even game on Linux now. If the game isnt awalible for Linux I will not buy it. I used to spand about a hundred USD on games a month... Good thing is that now I can basically buy ALL Linux games and still have money over! :-P

Re:Keep blowing your "downmodpoints" fool

[Anonymous Coward]

What?

Re:Hey, you insensitive clod

[DontBeAMoran]

I also once owned a Chevy Vega. And a Ford Pinto.

And you're still alive?! Congrats!

Re:The article suggests ads are part of the hidden

[Anonymous Coward]

> Or download and install one of the several hundred freely available alternatives that don't include annual fees or adverts.

That's not the point. The point is it hunts down and destroys your normal game. What you really want to do is hexedit your Windows 7 solitaire executable to change one value, then you can use it just fine.

I won't use it.

[MerlTurkin]

Yeah, I don't do Windows 10. Never will.

Anyone suprised?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was clear from the beginning that Win10 is a professional productivity prevention OS. It's like Microsoft are trying to test how much they can abuse users before they'll switch to another OS.

Duh, this is why I switched to Linux

[scorp1us]

I realized this even before windows 10 back around the Vista era. All those stand-alone software updaters were starting to get out of hand. The Java Updater, The Flash Updater, and the various other updaters. What's more, about the same time they started to become marketing apps.

  Although you paid nothing for windows 10, and Linux, Windows 10 costs you:
1. Bandwidth for advertisements
2. Screen space for advertisements
3. Privacy
If you don't need Adobe, use Linux. If you need adobe, learn GIMP.

Re:Duh, this is why I switched to Linux

[erapert]

If you need adobe, learn GIMP

Or Krita.

Make Visual Studio free

[RogueWarrior65]

XCode on the Mac (and for iOS) is free.

Re:Make Visual Studio free

[Anonymous Coward]

There has been a free express edition of Visual Studio for quite some time. It leaves out a few of the proprietary Microsoft things like MFC and the stdafx.h stuff, but you can absolutely build win32 apps with it and anything using STL or regular C++ types.

Just install a good firewall...

[squash_me_quickly]

and then block all the IP addresses and URLs that serve the Windows ads. One can probably find a list on the internet.
Easy :)

I'm sure Microsoft would argue that they are "giving" Windows(TM) to you with the PC you buy, because "that's what you want" :)
It's YOU, the users who are choosing Microsoft products, so you don't get to complain about your own choices.

Nails in their marketshare coffin

[Anonymous Coward]

Several of the last versions of windows have been like this.

Each one of them serves to strongly reduce the market-share of the OS. I wonder if Apple is ever going to let Mac-OS sit on windows boxes again. They could sell older versions of the OS for use on non-mac hardware, and make a truckload of money without having to move hardware. They might move a few dozen million licenses at $100 per, or ~$2.5 billion for already developed code.

MacOS for windows machines might be able to go very well for institutional/corporate customers.

rofl

[Anonymous Coward]

fsck m$, install linux today...

Just bought a new laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using Linux full time since the end of 2005. The last version of windows I personally used myself was Windows 2000.

This month I bought a new laptop - a fairly cheap low power design (2GB RAM, Celeron N) designed for basic tasks like web browsing and long battery life.

It came with Windows 10, and it was pretty awful. I found the interface to be really noisy and messy. Popup notifications everywhere, unwanted stuff like Cortana which apparently couldn't be completely turned off, etc, it was just unpleasant to use.

And it was really slow too. The task manager seemed to report near constant disk activity and the CPU usage was constantly high.
Now I'm not sure how much of it was Windows 10's fault alone. I guess there could have been some crapware that the laptop manufacturer installed that could have contributed to how bad it was. The laptop came with McAfee, but I uninstalled that immediately before I did anything else.

After using it for two hours or so, I formatted it and installed linux (Debian). Apart from some frustration with secureboot, it went pretty easily. And the laptop boots in seconds, feels fast and responsive, and is much more usable than it was with windows 10.

Since it hasn't been said

[Anonymous Coward]

I think we all know,

The very best computers do nothing until the end user asks them to do something, at which time, they do nearly anything.

As consumers, its our job to make our voices, and our dollars, better heard than all the people in Ad Sales.

Ouch.

[jwestveer]

Ouch. (dude installs new version of MS). Ouch. (dude installs new version of MS) Ouch. Some people are slow to learn from their mistakes. Some never learn.

EZ adware removal & telemetry blocking

[Drunkulus]

All the bloatware can be uninstalled via Powershell:
https://www.techsupportall.com...
Block every telemetry call:
http://www.dslreports.com/foru...

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

[Anonymous Coward]

If the application is commercial and free to use then something else is the product being sold (feeling a bit dirty now huh?). That rule applies to pretty much anything these days so either stop complaining and suck it up or go find some other OS to run your probably "free apps" on.

Seems we forgot an old lesson.

[sabbede]

I never see ads in Windows 10, but I use Pro and Enterprise versions, where you can turn all that off.

I guess the lesson is TANSTAAFL, "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch." You want Windows for free (or extra cheap I guess), you're going to have to see ads. You want to not see ads? Buy the Professional version.

Does that suck? Absolutely. Is it worth complaining about? No more than the TV commercials that pay for your favorite shows.

One big memory leak.

[Narcocide]

Fixing it did not require changing out the whole OS core. This, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call a boondoggle.

Re:One big memory leak.

[omnichad]

If you want the Win95 kernel, by all means have it.

Not every release of Windows is an improvement over the last, but if you're going to say that the move to an NT kernel was wasted effort, I don't know what to say. I can't think of a single OS that makes security improvements without progressively tweaking the UI or improving the performance of the kernel. Not a single alternative. People's needs change as computing changes.

Ads infect, slow & track you so... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: It's why I put this out publicly for all gratis APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-7 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

Ads/script & malware rob speed/security/privacy

Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!

Avoids DNSChangers in routers/IP settings & dns redirects (99.999% of ISP DNS != patched vs. it) + lightens DNS load & resolves faster from local system RAM!

* Via what u NATIVELY have built into the IP stack in FASTER kernelmode!

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e01211ca36aa02e923f20adee0a3c4f5d5187dc65bdf1c997b3da3c2b0745425/analysis/1433430542/

Except I don't see any

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, I have been running Windows 10 since the insider beta builds, yet I see zero ads, zilch, nada. The trick is to never activate your windows 10 copy. It doesn't stop working but it does not display any ads

sloooow news

[Anonymous Coward]

sloooow captain oblivion, use win xp - 7, it not angry ad

uninstall

[Anonymous Coward]

can one of you supposed brainiacs come up with a way to uninstall this crap? Then post the link?

How is this different than any other company?

[Anonymous Coward]

I users have tons of software preloaded "advertising" for their own ecosystem... And are locked to those services.

Even the one drive article mentioned it"advertises" for one drive OR other cloud providers