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India's Infosys To Hire 10,000 American Workers After Trump Criticism (bloomberg.com)
India's Infosys said it plans to hire 10,000 Americans in the next two years, following criticism from the Trump administration that the company and other outsourcing firms are unfairly taking jobs away from U.S. workers. From a report on Bloomberg: Infosys, which employs about 200,000 people around the world, will expand its local hiring in the U.S. while adding four hubs to research technologies such as artificial intelligence and machine learning. The first location will open in Indiana in August 2017 and is expected to create 2,000 jobs for American workers by 2021, the company said.
Infosys making America great again!
I didn't think you could hire 10,000 new IT workers for minimum wage?
It's still a race to the bottom, now it's just going to be done in a way that's harder to criticize. I wonder how this will impact salaries and the job market.
"so far"? lol. You'll be happy with him regardless bud.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
They meant to hire 10,000 more in India and accidentally did it in Indiana, instead.
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
It's like Trump saying that he will actually donate money he raised for veterans, to veterans. Did not happen until somebody found out that he was not doing it and shamed him into following through.
These "commitments" from Infosys are about the same quality. If there is no law behind it, and they can bribe Trump by buying a condo in his tower at high price, then the matter is settled.
Some of you are under the illusion that Trump is working for you. When it is clear that he is working for himself and couldn't give two hoots about you.
Infosys is one of those companies abusing H1B visas, aren't they?
They're just trying to get the scrutiny off themselves?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
I'm an American working for an Indian company - one of Infosys' competitors. You really can't blame the Indian companies as it's the onshore CIO who's outsourcing this stuff and the executive team who makes the decision to outsource to offshore. I've said it a buncha times - all we did was respond to an RFP. It's not Infosys' fault - since the standard of living is lower in India than it is here salaries are also lower. If you don't want Infosys, Wipro, Accenture and the like running your IT perhaps it's the American companies that need to consider hiring American. The other thing is that if offshore resources arrive here on an H1B visa they're free to seek other employment. IME onshore salaries are generally competitive or you lose people.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
Yeah... shitty jobs that no one with half a brain aspires to (Do you want YOUR kids to grow up to be coal miners?), at fifth-rate companies that no one who know what they're doing would partner with (I wouldn't contract with Infosys, no matter the nationality of their their flunkies. I want my projects to actually succeed, thank you very much.), and in dying industries (The aforementioned coal mining, which will soon be killed by the natural gas industry anyway, with renewables doing the mop-up job.).
Great work.
If these companies broke US employment and immigration laws, then they need to be banned from operating in the US.
These guys are attempting to save their businesses - nothing more.
Tata, Infosys, Wipro, Cognizant and all the other body shops need to be taught a lesson - break the law and there will be real consequences to your businesses.
That's the weird thing about the Trumpster. He's a big talker and most of the things that he says are BS, but he's probably made more progress with getting companies to bring US jobs back to this country than the Obama administration did in the last 4 years.
That doesn't mean that I like him or his policies, but I have to give credit where it's due.
Except the jobs are still leaving, based on Trade Adjustment numbers some 10,000 will have left in his first 100 days. While there have been a few headline grabbing saves to which I'll give him credit, he's trying to stop the tide from going out by yelling at it and threatening to pee in it if it doesn't stop. Here's a link from CNN: http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/2...
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
You say that, but there was more job growth per quarter under Obama than there has been under Trump. I mean I'm not convinced that a single quarter, his first, is legit to judge him by but since you are I don't really see how the numbers can be in his favor.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
Are you certain all the employees of these outsourcing companies have valid credentials?
Are you certain these workers were not displacing American workers at lower wages?
Are you certain all these workers were either as qualified or better qualified than the workers they replaced?
Are you certain all these workers were working in the locations specified on the visa?
If not, then these companies were violating the law. It is the H-1B holder's responsibility to verify and validate these terms. Your defense of "we just responded to an RFP" will not defend you in a court of law.
These companies hold the visas - it is their responsibility to ensure the hiring company is not using them to violate labor laws.
"Just following orders" is not a good defense in court.
When they "discover" that they cannot hire/lure 2000 tech workers in/to Indiana, they will make the claim the indeed there is a tech labor shortage in the US.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
It seems like Infosys is trying to get ahead of any criticism regarding the way they use the H-1B program. I do systems integration work so we work with a wide range of these companies. I've worked with people and software from Infosys and TCS as well as the lower-tier guys like Mindtree and NIIT. The problem is that even if you bring the work to somewhere like Indiana, you can't change the fundamental business model and so you'll still get less than optimal service.
All of these consulting firms, whether they're body shops like Infosys and TCS, or white-shoe management consulting firms, operate on a very familiar business model:
- Rely on a gold-plated sales team and rockstar consulting team to sell the dream and come up with the initial proposal
- Once the deal is signed, replace the rockstars with fresh grads or less-than-rockstar experienced consultants for the client-facing stuff, like collecting requirements or delivering PowerPoints.
- In the case of an outsourcing, send in a group to collect all the information about the company's business processes. Body shops sending the work offshore typically use their H-1Bs for this task, while the fancy consulting firms fly in the graduating class of the Ivy League business schools; it's a very common first job for that crowd.
- Send everything that actually involves work offshore or to other cheap "delivery centers" to maximize the profit on the deal
The problem is that whether these cheap delivery centers are offshore or onshore, I think they'll have big problems staffing them with qualified people. Consulting firms squeeze every last dime out of outsourcing deals because they have to break even...and in many cases they have to support a huge raft of executive salaries with big expense accounts on top of that. Consulting firms think nothing of flying senior people in from wherever, for months at a time on full reimbursement, and their customers end up paying for that. When you get down to the people who would be working in Infosys's Indiana office, they're going to try to pay minimum wage or slightly above because the entire model is making the actual work cheap while putting a good face on for the customer.
I don't think I'd like to work there, simply because they have a reputation among experienced IT people and developers. Just because you move the people here doesn't mean the model changes. It will still be a body shop mentality where you're cranking out random Java or .NET code for some corporate website or managing a company's IT systems poorly from remote. At the very least, however, it is domestic entry level work for newbies. Hopefully those newbies will endure a year or two in the middle of nowhere, then use the experience to move on.
That's the weird thing about the Trumpster. He's a big talker and most of the things that he says are BS, but he's probably made more progress with getting companies to bring US jobs back to this country than the Obama administration did in the last 4 years.
Trump hasn't brought any meaningful number of jobs back to the US. He has however falsely taken credit for a bunch of decisions he had effectively nothing to do with. He certainly hasn't done more than Obama because he has done a reasonable approximation of nothing.
Trump's whole promise to bring back manufacturing jobs is based on a false premise. The only way to bring back substantial numbers of manufacturing jobs to the US would be for wages to fall relative to elsewhere. US manufacturing is alive and well but it's not labor intensive manufacturing. We make jumbo jets, not happy meal toys. The only way you get massive number of assembly line workers back to work is to drop wages by a LOT. Since that won't happen, Trump is telling yet another lie.
That doesn't mean that I like him or his policies, but I have to give credit where it's due.
When he actually does something to deserve credit then you should start doing that. No credit due so far.
I can see them hiring the less-than-stellar American employees - the recent grads, the low end of the bell curve, the burnt out ones - and using them to be the face of the company where needed. So these poor schmucks will end up managing the offshore resources until they can't take it any more and leave.
As long as they offer a moderately decent salary there will be people who take it, especially if they spin the job correctly. If they offer remote work they'll get a lot more and possibly better candidates. All American and right her on sovereign soil.
No matter what it's going to be an outsourcing, offshore front. The question is how much will flow through the local hands before it gets to the clients.
I wonder if India is planing on draining the brightest minds from the USA in retaliation. Get a few of the best, and it's worth the other few thousand so-so minds they bring in.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
Most visa workers are not immigrants. Some may become immigrants, sure, but they are two different things.
Table-ized A.I.
Must be a reason "Indiana" contains "India"
Table-ized A.I.
Couldn't be a matter of pointing out how Infosys will "attempt" to hire American but then be forced to bring in H1B's due to not enough American's having the prerequisite skills? Oh of course not, must be racism. Seriously this is why many people are fed up with the identity politics.
Indiana is the South of the Midwest; enough said.
Samosas?
I used to live in Virginia. I would travel to West Virginia on holiday for mountaineering trips. It's a stunningly beautiful state, regardless of it's "redneck" reputation. I distinctly remember seeing vehicles on the road proudly decorated with "WV Coal Miner" bumper stickers. http://abcnews.go.com/US/Mine/... So yeah, I can think of lots worse careers than being a coal miner.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Most visa workers are not immigrants. Some may become immigrants, sure, but they are two different things.
In January 2010 there were 12.6 million permanent visa (green card) holders in the US. (source) In 2013 there were about 1.4 million temporary visa holders working in the US. (source)
While not all green card holders are working, it is clear that most visa workers are immigrants. Probably around 80-90%. All temporary visa holders are not immigrants, by definition, but that is clearly not what you meant since you used the word "most". Then again I don't think you knew what you meant, or understand the actual definitions of these terms.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Or for the dollar to fall. But that would be bad for WalMart and others who manufacture in China.
The dollar falling would make imports more expensive and exports cheaper but it won't bring more than a marginal number of labor intensive manufacturing jobs back to the US unless it falls by scary huge amounts. The US dollar would have to positively plummet to make it worth the effort to bring that manufacturing back to the US. The economic hardship that would result in the interim would be horrifying. A slightly weaker dollar is not necessarily bad but for it to fall enough to make it worthwhile to bring labor intensive manufacturing jobs to the US something very bad would have to happen.
Basically the assembly line jobs that didn't require a college degree from the 1950s-1970s are gone forever. People lust for them out of misplaced nostalgia but it's a world that no longer exists. We still have a huge and growing manufacturing economy but like farming it employs a relatively small percent of the population and it is likely to shrink further as a percent of the total workforce. The stuff we make is capital intensive rather than labor intensive. The future of the US manufacturing economy isn't in making little toys you buy at Walmart. It's in making complicated advanced products. The important thing is to not let new capital intensive manufacturing jobs leave the country. We need to encourage as many highly educated immigrants to come to the US as possible. Fund as much research as possible. That is the only way the US will avoid a reversion to the mean during the next century economically.
Too little, too late. Good bye Infosys
I was very recently working for Infosys, the company is horrible, their intranet for everything is a nightmare. I would never work for them again. They are all very nice, but their internal management is clueless and most projects are staffed only by overseas workers because the management make sup ridiculous requirements project positions so they can claim they were unable to find a worker in the US for the job.
Chicago is less than 30% more expensive than Indianapolis.
That depends on what part you are living in. Here are some actual numbers on the subject. These are averages which may vary by specific location.
Simple fact is that the cost of living difference is substantial and wages often aren't enough higher in the bigger city to compensate.
Add in the intangible benefits of more culture / entertainment, better food, and overall more job opportunities, it's not surprising that major cities attract the best and brightest in our society.
People in big cities far too often seem to think they are better than the people who chose to avoid them. New Yorkers seem to be particularly full of themselves in my experience. Big cities do not universally attract the best and brightest, merely a percentage of them and only for certain industries. Finance? Sure you probably want a big city. Agriculture? Not so much. Manufacturing? Depends on the product. You also conveniently ignore the drawbacks of big cities. Congestion, high prices, cramped living conditions, lack of green spaces, pollution, etc. And I would disagree that the food is universally better in cities or that there is better entertainment. It depends on what suits you. I live in a semi-rural area and I guarantee you I get better produce than almost any restaurant in NYC right off the farm. Same with meat if I want it.
and be willing to work 60 hours a week for 50K
No they just need welfare and food stamps to feed their families, or need to work as BOTH a Barista and a Walmart greeter.
The qualifications issue is one of false or unequal credentials. Diploma mills are a problem in many parts of the world:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes...
There have been accusations by many that some outsourcing firms do not adequately vet the credentials of the candidates they bring over on an H-1B visa.
I suspect a credentials audit of the visa holders would find that some do not possess the credentials they claim to have earned.
all will be of Indian descent.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
But, what are they willing to pay for those 10K workers ? The same amount of poverty level wages they pay to their indentured servants or actual American standard wages. If it is the former, no one will show up and they will say, "we offered but no one took the jobs" and give themselves a public show of legitimacy; If they go with the latter approach, they will piss off their workforce on H-1B visa, as there will be a huge pay gap between two groups. Doesn't sound sincere to me.
__________
The more I know people, the more I love animals
Is this why email notifications from "The Hill" are sponsored by InfoSys this morning?
well, first off, hindi is actually spoken by a majority.
My in-laws are from Tamil Nadu and Kerala; My F-I-L speaks Tamil, some hindi and of course, English.
My m-i-l spoke Malayalam, and English. Now she also speaks Tamil.
Obviously the common language between them was English.
While some of my other Indian friends blast the english, these 2 speak of the fact that the English at least established a unified language, though these days, the gov wants hindi to be the official language.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Haven't they heard there's an IT skills shortage? That's why we have all these H1Bs, right?
There are two trends defining the IT shortage in 2030: the baby boomers are retired and foreign workers will be going home. Fewer students are studying computers to replace workers who are retiring. With Trump in the White House, foreigners are getting the heck out of the country. For those of us who positioned are careers for 2030, lots of money to be made.
Or all the mentioned. Remember not all states increased the minimum wage.
Worse career? How about CEO of a startup who's idea that you stole from a college roommate that takes millions and squanders it to produce nothing tangible and somehow convince people that it is now a necessary part of the infrastructure. Then claim they are not a media company but will make it their life mission to eliminate all but the truth. Now that would be a ridiculous unrewarding job.
It's not that easy to just drop a career and go learn a trade. You will likely have to start working more hours and make less per hour to start. That kind of adjustment is not easy on a family. It's better than starving I guess but not much. Also, if I must go learn a trade I would still want to know what my government is doing to help me achieve the same quality of living by doing so. Otherwise you are still getting screwed over.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Fewer students are studying computers to replace workers who are retiring.
Gee maybe they should be treating the people well that are in the industry now, and then that problem goes away. Companies seem to pay lawyers a lot and I never hear of a shortage there.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Companies seem to pay lawyers a lot and I never hear of a shortage there.
The US has a glut of lawyers who can't find work to pay back their student loans.
https://www.edsurge.com/news/2017-04-25-the-canary-in-the-law-school-coal-mine
Simply put, disruption is lessening the need for lawyers, which means law schools are producing too many lawyers for positions that increasingly do not exist. At Whittier, only 30 of the 141 graduates in 2015 had gained full-time employment that required passing the bar. According to the New York Times, Whittierâ(TM)s graduates last year had an average of $179,000 pre-interest debt. This will not reverse.
I did time for one of those Indian companies. The work was training the offshore team to do the work of the America workers who had been RIFFed. The Americans had to assist with the training or lose their termination compensation. They (the Hyderabad-based IT company) wouldn't allow remote work so I had to move to NJ for a 6 mo contract. They wouldn't pay for travel or any relocation costs. Their people were flying to & from India pretty regularly. They wouldn't offer or cover cost of my Healthcare (COBRA at that time). Time spent filling out time cards and entering hours into their dogshit time tracking system were not billable. Pay rate was 1/3 lower than what HAD been my minimum. I was desperate for anything at the time. And they offered to hire me away from the company I was subbing for, which was forbidden by the contract.
It was not a good experience.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
It's one thing to just poach staff, but Infosys would have to do (better) for citizens what it did for H1-b's - train and place displaced individuals with employers.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
My grammar could have been better. What I really mean is that Qualifications is a non-issue. Once the people are hired if they can do the job it means the job does not need more qualification than what they have. Doesnt matter if the existing people doing the job had much higher qualifications and salaries. If those qualifications are not needed for the job its bad economics to be hiring overqualified folks for mundane IT jobs. Its just like if you hired a PhD to babysit. You do realize that entry level IT work is mind numbingly boring and hell on family life with uncompensated overtime. These are jobs Americans with the brains to do it don't want to do and the Americans desperate enough to do them do not have the brains and education to do them. Only immigrants will take up this kind of work. If you bar immigrants from doing it what happened with fruit pickers will happen with IT shops.
**Life is too short to be serious**
A visa "guest worker" is by definition not an "immigrant".
Table-ized A.I.
And a permanent visa holder is an immigrant by definition. And since there are nearly 10 green card holders for every 1 temporary visa holder, most visa holders are immigrants. By a large margin.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
A victory for the Don? Nah, Sikka has been trying to move away from cheap Indian labor for a while because he knows it's not working anymore. This was behind his controversial Panaya purchase, which has gotten him in a lot of trouble. US labor buys them political shade while also potentially lowering costs combined with Panaya and Infosys's other software purchases.
CNN? Yeah, that's a real creditable source for all things Trump. How is that Donna Brazille working out for them??
I don't think it matters what he does, the opposite side will always disagree with what he does and find holes to poke in it. It's like when the Election was over and Ford announced they were keeping a plant here because of what Trump had hinted at as trade policies. The opposition either ignored it and said it wasn't because of Trump even when Ford's CEO said exactly that in a news conference, they claimed it was always going to stay, or they claimed it wasn't that big a deal and that it wasn't that many jobs. Further to that point if anyone tries to give him credit for anything, the "but but but" police come out with a thousand excuses til sunday as to why he had nothing to do with it or suggest that the thing they are giving him credit for is terrible. Even worse was if you disagreed with the previous administration it wouldn't take long before someone claimed you were racist for having an opinion other than the president. That's why it's so funny to here democrats claim they are so interested in the freedom of speech and open dialog. They are about as open as a bank vault at midnight.
H1B visas in particular are temporary.
Table-ized A.I.
Yes, but your exact words were "Most visa workers are not immigrants." This is a false statement. You clearly didn't mean most H1B visa workers are not immigrants, because 100% of H1B visa workers are not immigrants. Your statement was merely derogatory towards all visa holders, and I was merely calling you out on that.
And as for H1B visa holders wanting to become citizens, they are by far the largest source of green card applications from visa holders. In 2016 117,189 visa holders petitioned for their green card, and 89,907 of them came from H1B holders. The #2 source was from L-1 visas, with a grand total of 7,871.
So it is quite accurate to state H1B holders are a significant source of our immigrants, and an even more significant source of our non-family related immigrants. There is no way you can honestly spin H1B visa holders as anything but at the core of what makes our country great.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
CNN? Yeah, that's a real creditable source for all things Trump. How is that Donna Brazille working out for them??
Those are numbers from the Trump administration. It would be great if Trump could deliver on his promise of bringing back jobs but they aren't coming back. he's promised a lot of people good jobs if he's elected but the type of jobs people are expecting aren't the jobs of the future. Coal demand is down and declining, factories are automating and cross border supply lines are common. He can attack the numbers as fake news but that doesn't change reality; I'd love to see him succeed in that promise but I would not bet on it. So how's O'Reilly doing at Fox?
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
It's not that easy to just drop a career and go learn a trade. You will likely have to start working more hours and make less per hour to start. That kind of adjustment is not easy on a family. It's better than starving I guess but not much. Also, if I must go learn a trade I would still want to know what my government is doing to help me achieve the same quality of living by doing so. Otherwise you are still getting screwed over.
Here's the conundrum: The same people who are against big government and Washington deciding things for them want Washington to step in and get them jobs. Of course, that's true all across teh political spectrum, people don't want the government to do things they don't like or need but to step in when they need something.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
I don't think it matters what he does, the opposite side will always disagree with what he does and find holes to poke in it. It's like when the Election was over and Ford announced they were keeping a plant here because of what Trump had hinted at as trade policies. The opposition either ignored it and said it wasn't because of Trump even when Ford's CEO said exactly that in a news conference, they claimed it was always going to stay, or they claimed it wasn't that big a deal and that it wasn't that many jobs. Further to that point if anyone tries to give him credit for anything, the "but but but" police come out with a thousand excuses til sunday as to why he had nothing to do with it or suggest that the thing they are giving him credit for is terrible. Even worse was if you disagreed with the previous administration it wouldn't take long before someone claimed you were racist for having an opinion other than the president. That's why it's so funny to here democrats claim they are so interested in the freedom of speech and open dialog. They are about as open as a bank vault at midnight.
CNN pretty much said Ford did it as a vote of confidence in Trump's pro business stance and Ford said that the decision was not part of any deal with Trump: http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/0...
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Well... I used to always think Americans were crazy for not wanting the government in their lives, but then Trump won and I finally understood.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
There was no deal but the CEO said it was because of the plans that Trump hinted at for his trade policies. CNN wouldn't give him good press if he blew them all and gave them ice cream. They are just another 24 hour propaganda machine, like ALL 24 hour news channels. Did people totally forget about the wikileaks stuff or is their world going to end if they acknowledge it?
The first location will open in Indiana in August 2017 and is expected to create 2,000 jobs for American workers by 2021, the company said.
They claimed that they had to hire the H1B workers because there was a shortage of qualified Americans. But now they suddenly think they can find 2,000 Americans? Legally, doesn't that mean that they must lay-off 2,000 H1B workers because now they suddenly found some American workers?
All of these hire-ees will be the traditional non-English speaking Indian immigrants.
That leaves 90,000 more looking for jobs!
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.