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A 2:15 Alarm, 2 Trains and a Bus Get Her To Work by 7 AM (nytimes.com)

From a report on The New York Times: Sheila James starts her Monday, and the workweek, at 2:15 a.m. This might be normal for a baker or a morning radio host, but Ms. James is a standard American office worker. She is 62 and makes $81,000 a year as a public health adviser for the United States Department of Health and Human Services in San Francisco. Her early start comes because San Francisco is one of the country's most expensive metropolitan areas. Ms. James lives about 80 miles away in Stockton, which has cheaper homes but requires her to commute on two trains and a bus, leaving at 4 a.m. Plenty of office workers get up at 5 a.m. or a bit before, but 2:15 is highly unusual. "Two-fifteen is early enough that some people are still having their evening," she said on a (very) early morning. But she likes to take her time and have coffee. She keeps the lights low and the house quiet and Zen-like. "I just can't rush like that," she said. When the second alarm goes off at 3:45 -- a reminder to leave for the train in 15 minutes -- her morning shifts from leisure to precision. It is a seven-minute drive to the station, where she catches the Altamont Corridor Express train.

333 of 588 comments (clear)

  1. And she's one of the lucky ones by computational+super · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Imagine if you had young children you were trying to get to school. I live in north Texas, where it's not nearly as bad (although it's creeping that way), and I have to drop my kids off at school no earlier than 8 AM - which means I hit the freeways at the worst possible time, which means I'm lucky if I'm in by 9 AM.

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    1. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Having children is a choice, in most circumstances, and rearranging your life accordingly is one of the costs that should be accepted.

    2. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the other hand we wouldn't exist if someone didn't "have" us.

    3. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by barc0001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know, having children does benefit the childless as well. Or would you like to live in an area where everyone chose to be childless and now that everyone's retired there's no staff for... well.. anything? No hospital staff, cops, restaurant workers, store workers, etc. Just look at Japan and their oncoming worker-to-retired ratio slow motion train wreck.

      That's one of the reasons that responsible governments understand people having children is vital to society's health and encourage the choice to do so with services and financial incentives. Other governments... not so much.

    4. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Funny

      Having children is a choice...

      One that you don't have to wory about.

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      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    5. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by networkBoy · · Score: 2

      Yes, it is.
      I chose to have children because (my now ex wife) said the doctor said she couldn't have kids (she didn't lie about this AFAIK).
      Now, I "did the right thing" and we got married, etc.
      had another kid.

      I accept the life I have, and I love my kids, but yeah, AMs are a bitch with school. Drop your kid off at 7:45 (because that 15 min seriously is the difference to making it to work on-time or not) and the school has the worlds biggest shit fit.

      I, fortunately, had a single mom as a boss when I started here, so she totally understood my plight. My start time was adjusted and now my new manager is just leaving it as is.

      Here's the rub: many people with kids *don't* get a manager that understands, and as a result are stuck either having work issues or whatnot, or taking a less lucrative job for its flexibility. It's a hobson's choice.

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    6. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Funny

      low and behold even using condoms AND the pill she still ends up pregnant.

      Perhaps you should do a paternity test on "your" kids.

    7. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by uncqual · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Earth has plenty of humans on it. Indeed, perhaps too many and a reduction in population (rather then a continuing increase in population as we are experiencing) would be best in the long term. Of course, the only way to have a reduction in population is either via some "pruning" process (probably politically infeasible) or people just having less kids. Yes, in the short term it causes some economic imbalances, but in the long term it's probably a good thing.

      Few people propose that society move to a situation where the birthrate is 0 (well, perhaps the Shakers do, but that's not working out so well for them).

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    8. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by jedrek · · Score: 1

      If everybody had to plan having children according to worst-case scenarios, no one would have children, and you wouldn't exist.

    9. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Good, why don't you have a word about Africa about their population issues?

      Oh wait, you want only wealthy White couples to have less children!

    10. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Thundercat007 · · Score: 1

      You got lucky having a single mom boss. My employer, all have kids, but the moment I call n say a few minutes late, it's a snow day (no buses) so I have to drive her school. Quickly you see a parent who had someone else handle the kids.

    11. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by trg83 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      If you're measuring your children with "less," then you already have too many. The diminishing of countable items is designated as "fewer."

    12. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      In Texas, where they are constantly making it harder to get birth control and abortions, it may not be as much of a choice as you'd like to believe. There's even one guy who has to pay child support for a kid that's not even his!

    13. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by orgelspieler · · Score: 2

      And before anybody claims that you could just choose to not have sex, this is a state in the Bible belt. The Bible is very clear on the fact that a woman has to put out for her husband (I Cor 7:5).

    14. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      People find plenty of ways to worry themselves with it, from adoption, to buying a surrogate parent. When they hit about 45 and have never had a girlfriend, they have this mid life crisis. they start going way out of their way to acquire a kid, like some move to acquire a Land Rover.

    15. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Yes, but there's an upper limit to flexibility. Life with afterburners on all the time is unhealthy, cuts into productivity, and increases conflicts with others.

    16. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Evtim · · Score: 2

      Few percent homosexual people is a boon for the species.
      They can never become majority anyway, Nature takes care of that.
      If you think that any 'promotion' by whoever in whatever manner can turn people gay you need your head checked.

    17. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hopefully future generations are fewer pedantic.

    18. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by computational+super · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hm - pretty sure my wife skipped over that part.

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      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    19. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it's an accident. We get careless. Our girlfriend says she is on the pill and you take her to fill the script, but low and behold even using condoms AND the pill she still ends up pregnant. Shit happens. Man up.

      Pregnancies can be terminated quite safely these days.

    20. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's basically our problem: We're aging, we're not repopulating at a sustainable rate and our economy does its best to make having kids as impossible as it can be.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 2

      And before anybody claims that you could just choose to not have sex, this is a state in the Bible belt. The Bible is very clear on the fact that a woman has to put out for her husband (I Cor 7:5).

      Last I checked, forced marriage was illegal even in the bible belt.

    22. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      "Immigrants" or illegals? Around here, the actual immigrants work in high paying office jobs. They don't clean houses or mow lawns.

      Plenty of native borns are in the working class. You don't necessarily need to import that kind of labor. Assuming people are actually born an raised in the Bay Area, there are undoubtedly plenty of slackers there to do menial labor.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    23. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pruning is currently in effect. We send poor white kids down into some countries to gun down poor brown kids. Don't worry, the system works.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    24. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Lay off the media narrative.

      If you want birth control, all you need to do is go to the doctor and get a prescription. The pill is ancient and generic now. It costs less than your latte habit.

      If you can't manage that, go to Walmart and buy some condoms.

      It's amazing how utterly helpless liberals think people are. It's a bit insulting really.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    25. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by eth1 · · Score: 2

      Imagine if you had young children you were trying to get to school. I live in north Texas, where it's not nearly as bad (although it's creeping that way), and I have to drop my kids off at school no earlier than 8 AM - which means I hit the freeways at the worst possible time, which means I'm lucky if I'm in by 9 AM.

      *Have* to drop them off? There's no buses, bicycles or feet they could use? I was required to get myself to school starting at first grade, where my only option was feet because I hadn't learned to ride a bike yet (unless it was pouring rain or dangerously cold).

      I also live in North TX, and the traffic here always goes from bad to horrific on the first day of school, apparently due to everyone "having" to individually drive their kids to school.

    26. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      > And before anybody claims that you could just choose to not have sex, this is a state in the Bible belt.

      I must have missed that part during my days being forced to attend Sunday School at an evangelical congregation.

      I'm willing enough to bash Xianity as much as the next atheist but I also detest bullshit in any form.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    27. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by DRJlaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Earth has plenty of humans on it...

      And we (the United States) want to cap legal immigration at ~50,000/year, so good luck making that argument while avoiding a long slide into depopulation, as currently exists in Japan and Russia.

      Yes, in the short term it causes some economic imbalances, but in the long term it's probably a good thing.

      SOME economic imbalances? Have you actually thought about the social and economic circumstances of depopulating midwestern cities and towns, or is that beyond your attention horizon, living in California as you are? Ah yes, the reason why you favor "less people" is certainly apparent... you want less people where you are. As if people are going to stop migrating there due to a drop in birth rate.

    28. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 2

      Sit in a clock and make hourly appearances?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    29. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by BellyJelly · · Score: 1

      You're posting as AC so who know's where you're from, but "Governments promoting sodomy"? Really? Here in the UK I have yet to see our Government run ads recommending that I insert my cock into another person's anus. My Doctor is also quiet on the subject, and I'm fairly sure it's not on the curriculum in schools (even the new-fangled "free" ones).

    30. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      I've always felt this is a bit deranged myself and so does my father-in-law but the wife and mother-in-law are Hind-D territory.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    31. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      And before anybody claims that you could just choose to not have sex, this is a state in the Bible belt. The Bible is very clear on the fact that a woman has to put out for her husband (I Cor 7:5).

      Last I checked, forced marriage was illegal even in the bible belt.

      The forced part comes after marriage.

      Fun fact, in some states it's still perfectly legal to beat your wife, so long as you do it a certain way.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    32. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Can you buy rubbers with an EBT card?

      Asking for a friend (that's the joke, right?)

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    33. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Tell me, has that promotion of sodomy made you gay? And if not, why do you think anyone who is gay would instead want to marry and breed?

      We're not talking about "oh, if they outlaw Diesel engines I'll have to buy a car burning premium". This is about sexual preferences. You can't simply switch over. If you think it's possible, imagine fucking a guy.

      Just imagine for a moment that fucking women is outlawed and if you want to get laid you have to fuck other guys. Well? Guess you'd probably prefer going solo, wouldn't you?

      Why the fuck do you think anyone who is gay could get hard with a woman? That puzzles me to no end. Or are you one of those idiots that think you can pray away the gay?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    34. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, forced marriage was illegal even in the bible belt.

      The forced part comes after marriage.

      But as long as marriage is a choice, you can choose accordingly.

    35. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You know, having children does benefit the childless as well. Or would you like to live in an area where everyone chose to be childless and now that everyone's retired there's no staff for... well.. anything? No hospital staff, cops, restaurant workers, store workers, etc. Just look at Japan and their oncoming worker-to-retired ratio slow motion train wreck.

      That's one of the reasons that responsible governments understand people having children is vital to society's health and encourage the choice to do so with services and financial incentives. Other governments... not so much.

      This is just utter bullshit riddle with logical fallacies. While of course we have to continue to have some children, we absolutely do not need to increase our population anymore and even a dramatic decline in population over an appropriate time period (IE: not from an epidemic or catastrophic event of some kind) is a good thing by every rational measure. Listing off a bunch of make-work support services to justify needing more people is not online asinine but a form of circular reasoning. We need to have more people so we can have people to fill the jobs to support more people. That's what you said, if you take out the rhetoric. Then you site Japan as a sort of false cause/straw man. Among other economic factors, Japan is suffering because they have no space to expand and have to account for that some way. One of those ways is population control but that doesn't fix everything. Isolationist societies that don't change basically always fail eventually. All Japan has to do is turn to immigration to replace older workers, but that won't give them more land. You also threw in an appeal to emotion mixed with a false dilemma. "An area where everyone chose to be childless and now that everyone's retired there's no staff for... well.. anything?" Seriously? That's 4 logic fallacies without even trying.

      Let me simplify this for you: if there are less people, we need less support jobs such as hospitals, cops, restaurant workers, store workers, etc... In fact, half of those jobs will be entirely gone in the next 20 to 50 years anyways. We aren't a agrarian society anymore. We don't need a lot of people. In fact, the biggest problems facing the world today are because we have too many people. Not enough jobs with livable wages (because we don't need them), climate change (which has other factors as well), general decline in education (too many people to teach effectively).

    36. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      That would be accurate if things like "shotgun weddings" no longer existed. But they do.

      Heck, in some states, a parent can still legally arrange the marriage of their underage children. In Arkansas, you can marry off a child as young as 14 by signing the right paperwork.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    37. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by sexconker · · Score: 2

      Tell me, has that promotion of sodomy made you gay?

      There once was a man from Nantucket
      Whose dick was so long he could suck it.
      And when he turned queer
      He spread open his rear
      And used his own dick to fuck it.

      If that doesn't get you horned up, you're dead inside.

    38. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Can you buy rubbers with an EBT card?

      Perhaps if you have to live off EBT then you cannot afford to have children in the first place, and must act accordingly? No, wait, you're getting your food paid for by other people, so other people will gladly pay for your children, too.

    39. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      so....move???? or get a different job??? 80 grand a year can be living like a king in many places in the country

      --
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    40. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Sit in a clock and make hourly appearances?

      No, they lay their eggs in other birds's nests and get those birds to raise their chicks.
      Where do you think "cuck" comes from? This insult is all the rage now.

      It's used to describe someone (usually a man but not always) whose partner fucks other people (or other things), typically while denying the cuck sex, making them watch, or making them participate in an ungratifying manner. There's a whole fetish category for it. In the fetish realm, cucks often enjoy their pathetic role, which is likely why the word is now being used so frequently to target liberals and SJWs who are now falling victim to their own policies and becoming the targets of their own campaigns.

    41. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by ebyrob · · Score: 1

      > And increases, it does.

      So wrong and yet so right correct and true.

    42. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by ebyrob · · Score: 1

      > And we (the United States) want to cap legal immigration at ~50,000/year, so good luck making...

      When's the last time overall US population dropped again? Oh, right.

      So back to that argument:

      >> The Earth has plenty of humans on it...

    43. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Responsible governments do whatever is necessary to ensure replacement only...because 10 billion will not be a survivable world and that is just ONE generation away!

    44. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by zenbi · · Score: 1

      and I have to drop my kids off at school no earlier than 8 AM

      Schools have school buses for children to get to and from school for free. Or you can walk. I'm also from Texas and did both when I was in elementary/middle*/high school.

      * My middle school was actually too close to my neighborhood and refused to offer bus service. So I walked, which was probably better anyway.

    45. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      That's basically our problem: We're aging, we're not repopulating at a sustainable rate and our economy does its best to make having kids as impossible as it can be.

      Society also makes having children a more and more expensive proposition.

      As well, men especially are deciding that having children, then the ensuing divorce and child support isn't all that great. Hardly suprising that the birth rate is dropping like our testosterone level.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    46. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

      same reason people anthropomorphise the economy - invisible hand and all that stuff

      --
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    47. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Nature takes care of it? Why do so many people anthropomorphize "nature" ... as if they think "nature" is somehow intelligent.

      Well, compared to us anyhow.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    48. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by DRJlaw · · Score: 2

      When's the last time overall US population dropped again? Oh, right.

      Way to ignore the argument, numbnuts. The US dropped below static replacement fertility in 1972. All population growth since then has been due to increasing lifespan (whoops, that's going away), and immigration.

      Now what happens after you build a fortress wall (wasting tens of billions of dollars) and drop legal immigration to 50,000/yr? Oh yeah, a population drop! We're already at 0.7%/yr and falling, and we haven't even implemented Trump's immigration control dreams yet.

      "Have you actually thought about the social and economic circumstances of depopulating midwestern cities and towns, or is that beyond your attention horizon, living in California as you are?"

      Answer the question. Oh right, you can't.

    49. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Can you buy rubbers with an EBT card?

      If you cannot make enough $ to even buy a fucking box of condoms, then perhaps your time would be better spent trying to get a REAL job that pays money enough to buy rubbers, rather than trying to get laid.

      I mean, hell...I worked restaurant jobs when I was a teen and could afford to buy rubbers?!?!?!

      If you are that poor, you should not be fucking and risking having a kid.

      Good Lord, that should be common sense...?

      Being poor doesn't necessarily mean you also are stupid....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    50. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I dunno. Do we get a choice whether we're fucking other guys or being fucked?

    51. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Sit in a clock and make hourly appearances?

      No, they lay their eggs in other birds's nests and get those birds to raise their chicks. Where do you think "cuck" comes from? This insult is all the rage now.

      It's used to describe someone (usually a man but not always) whose partner fucks other people (or other things), typically while denying the cuck sex, making them watch, or making them participate in an ungratifying manner. There's a whole fetish category for it. In the fetish realm, cucks often enjoy their pathetic role, which is likely why the word is now being used so frequently to target liberals and SJWs who are now falling victim to their own policies and becoming the targets of their own campaigns.

      Oh hell, the term is used by alot of people who seem to think its like saying cock or something.

      But yes, there is a pretty well known phenomenon of women who want a dual man. A bad boy who get's her juices going, and that boring simp who makes enough money to support her and the bad boy's children. It's also related to the friend zone, where a guy is in love with a girl, but she only wants him as a friend, not a lover. She then goes through a string of bad boys she is sexually attracted to, but might not treat her well. Then she commiserates with the friend zoned guy. Many a man has heard from a woman "I wish I could find a man just like you!"

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    52. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately that's not a choice the man can legally make.

    53. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Hmm. Shit. If I buy the Land Rover early does that still protect me?

    54. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Can you buy rubbers with an EBT card?

      Perhaps if you have to live off EBT then you cannot afford to have children in the first place...

      OK, I'm just going to leave you to think about what you said there...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    55. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Lay off the media narrative.

      If you want birth control, all you need to do is go to the doctor and get a prescription. The pill is ancient and generic now. It costs less than your latte habit.

      If you can't manage that, go to Walmart and buy some condoms.

      Or just go celibate.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    56. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Yes, but there's an upper limit to flexibility. Life with afterburners on all the time is unhealthy, cuts into productivity, and increases conflicts with others.

      The part that is interesting is that she chose the job, but then chose to live in an area where life is cheaper. This entails things like getting up really early to take a long ride into the city where she makes that wage.

      The irony is that if this situation was somehow "fixed" where people could live 80 miles away from work, and have a more normal life that isn't spent traveling, the cost of living in these less expensive places will zoom upwards.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    57. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      "Whooooooosh....."

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    58. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

      If I buy the Land Rover early does that still protect me?

      No. The Land Rover suggests you have earning potential. Very furtile ladies will be seeking you out.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    59. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well its not fair to steal from those who choose not to have kids to subsidize your choice. It's bad enough we are forced at gunpoint to pay for public schools.

    60. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by computational+super · · Score: 1

      Well I guess "have to" is a strong phrase, but no, we live too close for buses but too far to realistically walk, especially since both kids are in band and have instruments to carry back and forth as well. Don't cry for me, though, I'm making it work - I'm just trying to imagine the plight of somebody with kids in SF.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    61. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by computational+super · · Score: 1

      Fuckers.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    62. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by computational+super · · Score: 3, Funny

      you loyally accepted that she was pure and honest and it was yours

      Well, not OP, but... I have two kids myself, and have never had paternity tests done. I'm fairly certain I don't need to, though, because if she did cheat on me, she cheated with a guy that looks and acts exactly like me, and made two kids that look and act exactly like me. If anything, she ought to be the one asking for a blood test to make sure those kids are really hers...

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    63. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by cyber-vandal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah it's not like you benefited from an education or anything. Fucking Randroids.

    64. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      OK, I'm just going to leave you to think about what you said there...

      I thought about what I wrote before I submitted it. Perhaps you should think about how you clipped off the rest of that sentence, where I said "and must act accordingly"? Can you perhaps think of an "according" way of acting if you cannot afford either condoms or children?

      No, probably not.

    65. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if you're not on Food Stamps then you can afford to pay cash for the pill.

      If you're not then the government is paying for your health care anways.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    66. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 1

      Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. The single most useful measure to help humanity today would be to reduce the population size. The reason population growth is a problem is that governments have built *ponzi schemes* for social services based on the incorrect assumption that population will increase rather than use a 100% funded "lock box" approach to insure folks have what they need when they need it later in life. For example, my social security withholding goes to current beneficiaries, not an investment fund. THAT is why youth-to-aged ratios matter. From the looks of things, that's also NOT going to be fixed. The social security old age insurance fund shares it's funding with the disability fund, and the disability fund is burning into the red at record speeds, further exacerbating the issue. The rest of the items you mention such as police, fire, waiters, and other service jobs scale with the levels of population. If you've seen the latest BLS stats, you'd know that those jobs are where the predominant economic growth are actually happening. Sure, lots of countries have incentives for having children. It just turns out that in this country it's a HUGE liability (especially for men). It's no small surprise the current 20-35 cohort isn't interested. They know they can't afford the house in the new neighborhood with the good schools and the minivan etc... and it also seems my brothers woke up and realized that getting married and having kids was equal to signing your life away to a women who can categorically 0wn you later in court.

    67. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      If you have to take a freeway to get your kids to school, you're living in the wrong place. Especially if you don't have carpool lanes. What the fuck happened to kids walking to school like 30 years ago?

    68. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by compro01 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The US population continues to grow every year.

      US population growth is entirely due to immigration. It's the same story in the entire developed world. The USA is almost treading water as far as internal population growth with a total fertility rate (births per woman) of about 2 (replacement is about 2.1, as birth rates are skewed slightly male). Canada and the EU sit at about 1.6.

      When people have the option to control their fertility, by and large, they opt to not have children.

      Every year new Americans are born.

      And every year, more Americans die than are born.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    69. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      "Our girlfriend" That should be fucking doubt there, too. Do the test.

    70. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Imagine your parents exercising this choice. Hmmm...

      That would have been fine. There wouldn't have been any me to regret not being born, so no loss. And my parents would have had less expenses. They made a choice and paid the price, as they deserved.

    71. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      Not that I support population growth, but we were warned about how 3 billion was unsustainable.... then pretty much every billion after that.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    72. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      So, you mean unemployment problem would become completely nonexistent?

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    73. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Your native population birthrate grows.

      Prove it. I already gave examples of Russia and Japan where that hasn't happened.

    74. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by losfromla · · Score: 2

      I don't see the problem with population dropping. I see it entirely as a good thing. Housing prices can come down and we'll use less resources as a group. Children will be seen as more valuable as there are less and less of them born. If at some point we stop producing entirely, then it will just be another step in our evolution as a nation.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    75. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by losfromla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is both an idiotic and racist statement.

      Why not help the women who are fertile and having children be better mothers? Provide a strong, effective support system so their children become doctors, engineers, scientists rather than fodder for the industrial prison complex? Optimize them as bearers and nurturers of the future generations.

      Let the working women continue with their careers, let them optimize there since there is no reason they should be burdened with children. They can then provide the highest value where their skillset lies.

      Win-win. No idiotic racist policies required. Awesome-sauce!

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    76. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I'm dead inside...

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    77. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by losfromla · · Score: 1

      If you ask that question, you're gay. Yay for you!

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    78. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by losfromla · · Score: 1

      common sense and teen hormones with a teen brain do not coexist. Though porn is doing a lot to stop boys from having sex with actual females.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    79. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      What a crock, too many old people not working, perhaps we can lock you idiots in a room with the oh noes robots will take all the jobs and people wont have any work, perhaps we can give you knives and clubs, that'll make it more interesting. So who will win the argument, too many old people we can not have universal health care they must all die freaks or robots taking all the jobs. The sensible people will just look on, and say, oh look the robots are doing all the work, kind of shonky to say only the richest get to own all the robots and make all the money, whilst the majority a feed rations in labour camps, lets distribute the ownership of robots and distribute the goods they produce fairly. The whack doodle craziness of the too many old people crowd is just fucking insane.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    80. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by t0rkm3 · · Score: 1

      Crappy examples. Both of your examples have very restrictive immigration policies and in Japan the middle class doesn't feel the same sort of economic pressure from low wage immigrants, nor is it likely to in the near term.

      Russia is just now growing a middle class, their society hasn't adjusted to the bevy of choices that have been opened up to them economically, so they are focused on climbing the greasy pole of capitalism as it is the new marker of status in a culture where the powerful had nearly limitless power.

      I don't know that you're right, but I do know that your examples are specious. Similar to how Scandinavian countries were held up as bastions of civil society based on their low crime rates and socialist politics without accounting for the fact that their society was highly homogeneous and had very restrictive immigration. Now that that those things have changed over the last 10 yrs, the examples have changed.

      I would say that Canada is a better example, up to recently their immigration policy was more restrictive that the US, and they had the additional benefit of geographic isolation (or at least buffering.)

      However, I think that the whole population argument is an argument driven by people who don't understand slavery and those that actually WANT wage slaves. If we slow the immigration rate and retard population growth then prices for goods and services will rise. This will foster investment in automation and efficiency, which in turn will drive productivity (per capita) up. It's the shortest road to a world where we can actually provide for everyone and their basic needs.

    81. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      Pro Tip: Hose Clamps

    82. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      That's basically our problem: We're aging, we're not repopulating at a sustainable rate

      That's OK, as with many other things the solution has already been outsourced to Asia and Africa.

    83. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You're just mad that its guys like YOU they don't HAVE to marry now. Because they can choose to own property instead of being property.

      And that is wonderful. If a woman wants to have nothing to do with men, it is her right. This might tie into the side subject here regarding how men are not finding marriage and childrearing or relationships with women to be a smart endeavor.

      As is their right. And yes, if you are right that the only men that feel this way are those who women don't want to marry or have children or relationships with, it is a good thing for women is it not?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    84. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Or... *drum roll* it is a fatal flaw in Darwinism. That a trait that is in no way beneficial to continuing the species is not "survival of the fittested out."

      Evolution isn't about what's best for the species, it's about what propagates the genes. In fact, "species" is a human construct that doesn't reflect reality - it's impossible to draw distinct lines for where a "species" begins and ends. Were you the same species as your father? And him, his father? All the way back to your ancestor who was a fish?

      What's best for the gene's survival isn't necessarily that the individual propagates. If someone dies childless, but has supported dozens of others with a particular gene, that's a win for that gene which evolution tallies. This is clear when you look at a beehive, but some of us think it doesn't apply to us for some magical reason. It does apply.

      If a small but significant number of homosexuals increase the odds of the genes' survival, because those individuals don't have to spend resources on raising their children but can spend that effort for the group as a whole, evolution will reward that group's genes over competition where everyone procreate and live in greater hardship.
      That there are some childless drones is likely beneficial to many groups of mammals, or it wouldn't be happening. That there's no need to make them asexual in primates, when they can find sexual fulfillment with each other simplifies things.

    85. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Can you perhaps think of an "according" way of acting if you cannot afford either condoms or children?

      No, probably not.

      Oral sex works pretty well.

    86. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      50k/year is insanely low. The UK, population 65 million, wants to get it down to under 100k and that is considered to be economic suicide.

      At the moment there are about 80k/year immigrants just for family reunions, before counting students and skilled workers or anyone from the EU.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    87. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Then the pruning continues here with those poor white kids that didn't want to join the army and the poor brown kids that managed to scrape together the money to hire some human trafficker and now need to make money to pay their debt.

      Don't worry, anyone who is in any way relevant will be protected. The system works.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    88. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Working people don't deserve kids!

      Nobody deserves kids. It's an obligation one shouldn't accept without having the time and means for it. Kids aren't plush toys for making the parents happy; they are individuals who deserve to be taken care of and given the same opportunities as their peers. If you can't give them that, don't be selfish and spawn.

      Huzzah, kick the poor!

      Instead of supporting their kids who never asked to be born, why not spend the money on fighting the real problem of poverty?

    89. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I don't think I am. It's possible. I mean, I've never had sex with another man, I might enjoy it.

      I doubt though that I'm gay. It's not the men that distract me when they walk past..

    90. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I did, and I've had the other "I'm a family guy, see I have kids too" boss that has no actual parenting responsibility.

      My current job is $35K/yr lower than my last one, and worth it, just because of this difference.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    91. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      Yes, you missed it. It's not even an evangelical-only sort of thing. Tamer churches will occasionally preach on the topic as well. Paul was pretty clear. From Eph 5:

      22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

      25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

      Also, from I Cor 7:

      2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

      Men frequently leave out the parts about being good to your wife and fulfilling duties to her. Typical hypocritical bullshit.

    92. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      Mine too, buddy. She nearly laughed out loud during a sermon on the topic.

    93. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, in very religious communities, teenagers are encouraged to get married at an early age, lest they defile themselves, or whatever they're calling it these days. In the Assembly of God community I grew up in, there were several girls who got married right out of high school. None of them are still married to their first husbands, except the one that married a Methodist. Ironically the preacher's daughter was the ... how to put it delicately ... girl with the worst reputation.

      I guess I have a problem with people who think it's best for young adults to enter into a covenant before they can fully appreciate the ramifications of it. And then, if they do get in a bad situation, they are ostracized and cursed. There are some evangelicals who still believe that divorce is adultery.

    94. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The AC that complained about divorce, child support, etc, dropped it entirely at the feet of men. As if all women are infallible, never cheat, and/or never unfit to raise children.

      All of which is just feminists propaganda.

      I always liken the "always wrong" mantra to the rule of incompetence. We see it with feminists, we see it with hardcore right wingers - hows that for an unexpected twist!

      But yes. Blame and castigate, all problems are the complete fault of our enemy, be the enemy the mythical liberals or the patriarchy. Women are finding it difficult to find "suitable" husbands. It's because men are immature, and refuse to grow up, or don't have enough education or other some such. We actually had a fellow in another thread blaming peanut allergies on liberals.

      Great bolshy yarblockos! Liberals cause peanut allergies. There are more women than men. Crypto-conservatives are most of the nation's governors, hold a majority in most of the state Governments, the majority the US house and senate.

      Biut those damn mythical liberals are still causing all of the problems, and men are still to blame for all the problems.

      At least men and the mythical liberals are strong - too strong for those who are never ever wrong, and who know the answer to every problem, to defeat. And women and Crypto-conservatives must be incredibly weak when they are losing while in a position of power.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    95. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by kenh · · Score: 1

      I thought immigrants WERE Americans, by virtue of setting foot on US soil?

      --
      Ken
    96. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by kenh · · Score: 1

      It's bad enough we are forced at gunpoint to pay for public schools.

      Landowners are forced to fund free public education (K-12) for every resident up to age 18. The state does not want to charge parents for educating their children - first off, they (the families in the community) couldn't afford it, at what $10-16K/year per student/child, second, the world would be populated imbecile children, incapable of hold anything but the most menial of manual jobs.

      I don't know many families of four with 2 school age children that have $20K+ per year to spend on education.

      --
      Ken
    97. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by kenh · · Score: 1

      Right now in America we have 1 million legal immigrants 'in country', what is being proposed today, as it was twice before in recent memory, is a change to limit legal immigration to people with a skill, that can speak the language, and not rely on public assistance. What a revolutionary idea! Oh wait, it's the same policy Australia and Canada have in place...

      --
      Ken
    98. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The big problem with population dropping is what it does to the demographics. The population gets old, with the biggest cohorts over retirement age.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    99. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Supporting people in what they want to do is often a good thing. Forcing women to choose to be workers or breeders is not, and doing that when men get to be both is sexist. Now, if you'd like to add a paragraph about your proposals for women who want children and a career, I'd withdraw my complaint.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    100. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      Two problems here. First off, the myth of overpopulation has long overstayed its welcome, despite its lovely racist history. (China's not the only place with a known record of...less than ethical methods being used for population control. For example, Mexico's had problems with women getting sterilized under conditions were consent was not possible.) The end result is that the population is not that likely to stabilize at a good level--it will crash, and crash hard. Secondly, the speed of automation isn't sufficient to ensure that the population will remain above modern civilization's bus factor--automation can certainly lessen the number of people outright required to maintain the infrastructure necessary, but short of a sudden breakthrough we're probably doomed.

    101. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      The problem is that unless you're literally going out and culling only the elderly, most of the time you absolutely need to check what the age distribution of the population is before you make any calls on if a reduction in population is needed in any species--what matters when it comes to calculating the long-term stability of a population is the percent that's of reproductive age. (If you're just getting rid of individuals too old to reproduce, at least the population has a better chance of recovering if you wipe out too many so your math doesn't need to be quite so careful.)

    102. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Some inmates engage in such activity. Curiously it's roughly the fraction of people that are bi- or homosexual.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    103. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      The private sector would not have taught me basic life skills such as reading and writing unless my parents could afford it. Do you think the majority of people being illiterate is a societal good you pea brained fascist?

    104. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Bartles · · Score: 1

      A private school could have taught you to read and write for a hell of a lot less than your public education, and they probably would have done a better job. Why pay for it yourself, when you can force others to do it. How much have your parents paid in property taxes? Probably an order of magnitude more than it would have cost to put you in private school.

    105. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      I knew in 14 years of weekly attending a Catholic Church they must have been leaving out the good parts.

    106. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      He's pointing out people don't act accordingly by human nature. Trying to be preachy about it helps sweet fuck all. You're saying "should" the other person is talking reality.

    107. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      They've paid a lot less in property taxes than the cost of sending 4 children to private school. You Randroids are insane if you think most people could afford the sort of fees charged by private schools for very long. How successful are the countries that don't have a state education system compared to those that do?

    108. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Why is it ways either or with you people?

    109. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Please elaborate. I believe that education funded by governments is proven to work in that the majority of the population receives an education that gives them the potential to live successful lives or at least to be able to earn a living and the economy prospers as a result. I cannot think of a single example of a private sector only education system that has similar outcomes for the majority of the population. It's far from perfect but as we've seen in the U.K., letting private speculators into education costs more and leads to worse outcomes.

    110. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by computational+super · · Score: 1

      every single house in the entire country has to be served by a school bus

      No, definitely not - or, at least, if it is, there's an exception if you live too close to the school, and "too close" seems to be pretty arbitrary. We (and about 80% of the families that go to my kids school) live less than a mile from the school, so the buses won't come pick our kids up. The walk from our house is about 30 minutes, though - a bit much to ask of a kid on a good day, much less a freezing or rainy one.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    111. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Crappy examples. Both of your examples have very restrictive immigration policies and in Japan the middle class doesn't feel the same sort of economic pressure from low wage immigrants, nor is it likely to in the near term.

      As if that isn't precisely what Trump has planned for the US. I consider you to have conceded my point.

      If we slow the immigration rate and retard population growth then prices for goods and services will rise. This will foster investment in automation and efficiency, which in turn will drive productivity (per capita) up. It's the shortest road to a world where we can actually provide for everyone and their basic needs.

      You're daft. You want to decrease consumer demand to increase prices for goods and services, but also increase productivity and efficiency (which will decrease prices for goods and services), and in this high-automation, high-price environment you believe that everyone will be provided for at least at the level of basic needs. It's a macroeconomics "F," especially since the immigration controls are being driving by an anti-social-welfare, low tax orthodoxy. I mean, if there was a grade lower than "F," you'd have earned it.

    112. Re: And she's one of the lucky ones by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      contrary to popular belief, there is actually an immigration process in the united states. just stepping foot on US soil doesn't make you an american, unless you are a new born baby dropping from a womb.

    113. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by rhyous · · Score: 1

      I support population growth, why don't you? This world can support 1 Trillion. Take a drive across the US sometime. If you really think it is even 10% filled up, it isn't.

      Space: Most western like Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, have one city with a couple dozen sky scrapers. We don't even have Skyscraper apartment buildings yet. We can drive hours between cities in some areas.

      Water: Water is not something the world is short on. We are just reaching a point where desalinization is now becoming necessary to get water from the ocean. It is not even common yet. We haven't even started piping desalinated water further inland that the cities it is desalinated in.

      Food: People talk about feeding everyone. Not a problem for a long time. The government is still paying farmers to NOT grow food. When they start paying people to stop working in the city and start growing food, then we can worry about food shortages. When we start reaching a point where we need to find ways to grow food in the desert, then we can worry about food shortages. We haven't even made an effort to reclaim Sahara or Gobi deserts or most other deserts. But we have started learning to grow food upwards on Sky scrapers, though we know how to do it, it is really rare. Also we we have exhausted those avenues and also have exhausted our ability to start building massive green houses in Northern Canada and Alaska, we can move to growing editable Sea weed in the oceans. I think there is a little of bit of room on the oceans.

      We are still traveling on roads. When we've reclaimed the deserts, and have no more space, we can put the roads underneath us in tunnels, like New York's subways, and reclame millions of miles of land, world-wide.

      Are we exhausting our resources to mine for our needs in space yet?

      Not to mention that in 100 years, barring a Global catasrophic even that puts us back into the dark ages, we will likely be trading with the 'New world'. Only the new world is no longer the American Hemispheres, it is Mars. We are living in domes and mining air from Mars's oceans. Or maybe we terraformed it by crashing a moon-sized meteor of frozen water on it that we propelled from the Asteroid belt.

      Every time I hear that the earth is full, I laugh at people complete idiocy.

    114. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones by rhyous · · Score: 1

      Speaking of complete idiocy . . . my typing and grammar sucked in that last post. Yes, yes, I did post without proofreading. :-)

  2. How is this "News"?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lots of people have long commutes to work....Who cares?

    1. Re:How is this "News"?? by jfbriere · · Score: 3, Informative

      I care.

    2. Re:How is this "News"?? by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 2

      You cared enough to comment. When I see a topic that I'm not interested in I just keep on scrolling.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    3. Re:How is this "News"?? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Lots of people have long commutes to work....Who cares?

      Elon Musk, which is why his people are (likely) pushing these stories through the media to try and build political support for his hyperloop.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    4. Re:How is this "News"?? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Lots of people have long commutes to work....Who cares?

      I think it's noteworthy she makes $81,000 a year and still can't afford a decent used car so she can just drive to work.

    5. Re:How is this "News"?? by OffaMyLawn · · Score: 1

      There is mention she drives 7 minutes to the train station. I'm guessing it's more economical to pay for the train fare than it is to drive (gas, wear on vehicle, etc.)

      I'm not in a completely dissimilar situation, having to commute to downtown Pittsburgh every morning. There is no public transit between where I live and here before a certain point, however. I'm fortunate enough to have a company vehicle though, otherwise I probably wouldn't do it.

  3. Time to find a new job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...or transfer to another part of the country. It might take a while, but one can be found which will provide the same buying power with a better work life balance.

    1. Re:Time to find a new job by Sporkinum · · Score: 1

      That's the thing. Houses and cost of living are way cheaper in other parts of the country. Where I live my house will be paid off in 13 more years. I live a mile from work and ride a skateboard to work most days. It takes 6-7 minutes.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
  4. I took the bus once by Osgeld · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The one time I took a city bus, it made a half hour drive into a 3 hour adventure, never even considered public transportation ever again.

    1. Re: I took the bus once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You add to the fact that it takes her an hour and 45 minutes to get ready in the morning and you've got about the least efficient person in the world serving as a political prop about high rent.

    2. Re:I took the bus once by Moof123 · · Score: 1

      Public transit quality varies quite a bit. Here in the suburbs of Portland OR my 7.5 mile commute choices are:
      Drive: 25-35 minutes, all on city streets (can't zone out)
      Bike: 35-40 minutes, plus 10 minutes extra for the extra shower each evening
      Light Rail: 50 minutes if I catch it right (one leg comes only every 30 minutes)
      Run: 1 hour 15 minutes, though only only practical one direction 2-3 times a week

      Driving is fastest, but my least favorite due to all the stopping and traffic on busy city streets. 90+% of my commuting is by bike as a result.

    3. Re: I took the bus once by Slashdot+Junky · · Score: 1

      She's probably working on tasks many of us complete after the workday is done and before bed and/or not using the first hour of her paid workday to finish waking up.

      --
      .
      Landfill Mining Co.
      Managing the (Un)natural Resources of Tomorrow
    4. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get up at 4:30AM to catch the 6AM bus outside of my apartment complex. It takes me 90 minutes to get ready and out the door. Some of us had put our college days behind us and no longer roll out of bed wearing the work clothes from yesterday.

    5. Re: I took the bus once by rogoshen1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      how is this insightful? she specifically states she doesn't want to be rushed in the morning. Some people *enjoy* relaxing before work with some coffee.

      Also note, that when her second alarm goes off she has her commute to the train station mapped down to the fucking minute.

    6. Re: I took the bus once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Squeezing into a shirt the size of a pup tent that's still too small is probably what takes so long.

    7. Re: I took the bus once by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You add to the fact that it takes her an hour and 45 minutes to get ready in the morning and you've got about the least efficient person in the world serving as a political prop about high rent.

      Indeed. Her behavior makes no sense. If she is going to be on the train for two hours, why doesn't she use that time to do her prep? Or sleep?

      Also, you don't have to go to Stockton to get away from SF rents. Oakland (20 minutes by BART) is far enough.

      Better headline: Crazy Woman Lives in Stockton.

    8. Re: I took the bus once by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      How in the hell does it take 90 minutes to get ready? It doesn't take that long even with two young kids! Unless you are sitting around reading or something, which is not "getting ready". That's called "reading".

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:I took the bus once by snarfies · · Score: 1

      I take the bus everyday to work. Well, first a train, then a bus. It takes me about 45 minutes to get to work. But I live in Philadelphia, where we have a pretty robust transit system.

      I guess the point is: It all depends on where you live.

    10. Re: I took the bus once by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 2

      holy shit, I'm out the door within 20-30 minutes of rolling out of bed.

    11. Re:I took the bus once by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

      I used to drive to work (at UW in Seattle) every day, five days a week. Did this for years... it wasn't much fun, but you get used to it after a while.

      Then, about 14 years ago, we had two cars die in rapid succession. My wife's job takes her to multiple work places on a regular basis, so she really does need a car (in our area, at least) - but I decided to try taking the train.

      It did take some time to adjust; and yes, the commute was a bit longer time-wise than driving (because busses share the downtown roads with cars, and get stuck in the same traffic) - but eventually I found I preferred not having to deal with the stress of driving in stop-and-go traffic, day in and day out. Riding the bus was still stressful sometimes, mainly because of the bad traffic it would get stuck in - I would miss the last train on occasion simply because of the traffic between UW and downtown.

      Nowadays I take a train to Seattle, then hop on light rail for the trip from downtown to UW. It's as fast - and possibly faster - than driving during that same time period. There's no traffic stress... and I can just zone out for that 80-90 minutes (which incidentally is about how long driving alone during that time of day would take). If I do have to drive, I generally hate it.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    12. Re: I took the bus once by Merk42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because "Woman wakes up at 2:15 to go to work" heavily implies she has a much longer commute and/or is coming in very early.

    13. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      How in the hell does it take 90 minutes to get ready?

      Wake up, take my vitamins and allergy meds, brush my teeth, shave my jowls, take a dump and piss off trolls on Slashdot via iPhone, weigh myself, take a shower, splash Old Spice on, put my clothes on, take care of any last minute errands like making lunch or taking out the trash, and leave.

    14. Re: I took the bus once by arth1 · · Score: 1

      You add to the fact that it takes her an hour and 45 minutes to get ready in the morning

      Yes, the mind boggles. At the very least that's not something she should factor in, because it will always be a problem for her. Does she expect her job to provide a service with someone fetching her sleeping body and put it on a train, so she can do her extensive wake-up ritual while commuting?

      I think the overwhelming majority of people would be able to take a shower, get dressed and have a cup of joe in 45 minutes. And even then, that time is not something to blame the city/state for. Even if you live in the same building you work in, that time would remain the same.

    15. Re: I took the bus once by Distortions · · Score: 1

      I get up 1:15 before i need to leave... i lothe rushing in the morning when im not awake yet.

      --
      Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
    16. Re: I took the bus once by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      I just don't understand. I wake up at 7:45, shower, shave, eat a bowl of cereal, make kids lunches, make my own lunch, and herd the kids out the door by 8:30 (8:45 when things go badly wrong). Are you taking a 45 minute dump or something?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    17. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      [...] is coming in very early.

      Most federal jobs on the West Coast requires that employees start work early to keep up with the East Coast. If you start work at 9AM, the day is half over on the East Coast. Starting early also avoids the nastiness of the commute.

    18. Re: I took the bus once by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

      Lots of people can't sleep in moving vehicles, and having a night's sleep partially interrupted by a run for the train isn't exactly conducive to really quality sleep later.

      I personally fall asleep on planes and trains just fine, but the quality of the sleep is so low I count it for about half of what I manage to get. She's going to work, not back home from a trip; a good night's sleep is going to be important to doing her job properly for the rest of the day.

    19. Re: I took the bus once by Guru2Newbie · · Score: 1

      In Los Angeles, I had a 90-min three-bus trip from Hollywood to work a bit south. Normally it would take me 40 minutes by moped or 30 minutes by car. Why even take the bus? The LA Air Quality Mgmt District gave out perks to bus commuters (and some tax credit to the employers); in my case, being single, I took the 2 movie passes each week perk for at least three commutes/week. Cons: waiting at bus stop, running if the bus was early, noise, smelly, crazy people, timing the departure to make connections just right, bus pass cost; Pros: bus stop 1/2 block away, drop off across street from work, could read or do bills or just zone out, no parking or fuel costs, could buy a discount bus pass at work. After I moved away, the Green Line light rail was built, which would have sped up the commute to one bus + one rail line, again, the station was right where I worked. Now we both work at home, me in my casual clothes and bare feet.

    20. Re:I took the bus once by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      If public transportation were more popular, it could reap some scaling benefits, becoming more efficient. Since you (and many other folks) have found the bus to be too inefficient for your needs, you instead choose to drive, adding to traffic and increasing the per-passenger cost of the bus system.

      I'm not saying it's wrong to drive yourself. I just find the cyclic effect interesting.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    21. Re: I took the bus once by dmatos · · Score: 1

      Oh, sorry. Is it not as shocking if it reads "Woman leaves house at 3:45am in order to get to work at 9"

      Is that something that you'd be totally okay with?

      --

      It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
      --Scott Adams
    22. Re: I took the bus once by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 2

      At least he combines that time with pissing off trolls on slashdot with is iphone.

      I'm just surprised his bowels are that tuned into his schedule. Mine never make a problem until three minutes before I planned on walking out the door.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    23. Re: I took the bus once by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Of course I go to work before I'm awake, it's bad enough that I have to be there but if I woke up before I can quit I'd probably go insane.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    24. Re:I took the bus once by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Utter nonsense. The most heavily used commuter bus route in my home city is still three times more costly in terms of time than just driving. There's really no way to improve on what's already been implemented. It's a relatively well run and well used line.

      The only way to actually make it better might to be make it less "bus like" and thus dramatically less useful.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    25. Re: I took the bus once by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      From out-of-bed to out-the-door is what is being discussed. Any pre-prepping is to his advantage. After all, someone above said the lady in the article probably does things in her 2 hours that others would do after work. So time shifting is assumed.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    26. Re: I took the bus once by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      Don't push when you poop, if you do you won't be able to hold your bowels when you're an old person.

    27. Re: I took the bus once by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      Given that it's factually inaccurate, no. (she gets to work at 7).

      The point is, just phrase it as how long her commute is "Woman has 3hr commute" is enough.
      Coincidentally something I dealt with years ago.

    28. Re: I took the bus once by sexconker · · Score: 1

      As stated, she keeps the lights low, really zen-like, and sips on some coffee, until the second alarm (indicating she's got 15 minutes).

      I'd wager most people don't get out of bed until the 10 minute warning. 15 if you're the type of fool who does an AM shower instead of a PM shower.

    29. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Show me on this picture of a very muscular man (Mr Olympia) [ironmagazine.com]where the jowls are?

      Between the jawline and throat. Do you need a box of crayons?

    30. Re: I took the bus once by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      After all, someone above said the lady in the article probably does things in her 2 hours that others would do after work. So time shifting is assumed.

      Someone who starts work at 7AM has plenty of time after work to do the things you claim she'd doing in the dark in her "Zen-like" house at 2:15AM.

    31. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I'm just surprised his bowels are that tuned into his schedule.

      I maintain a 12-hour fast between dinner and breakfast. Everything has time to settle down overnight and ready to dump the next morning.

    32. Re:I took the bus once by mikael · · Score: 1

      Happens everywhere. I once found a students course notes on top of the roof of a bus shelter (my apartment looked directly down onto the bus stop. Would never have been seen from the ground). I contacted the college in question and was told to drop them off at the reception. Checking the bus timetable, it would seem that this would only be a 30 minute journey from my apartment. What actually happened, was that the bus only went half-way then turned round. Had to wait another hour for another bus. This tooks another hour to finally get there. It's another 20 minute walk to the reception. Altogether, it took me four hours to get there. And this was in a small city the size of San Franscisco.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    33. Re: I took the bus once by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      She's going to work, not back home from a trip; a good night's sleep is going to be important to doing her job properly for the rest of the day.

      1) She's a government employee.

      2) She's getting to work two hours before anyone would be expecting to seek her "health advice" on the west coast. The concern about matching up with the east coast office hours implies she's dealing with people from the east coast -- a VERY long commute for any in-person visits, and why would civilians not just use the east coast resources to start with? Is this the ONLY US Government DHHS office in the US? No, the claim that she has to be there early so her hours match up with her compatriots on the east coast tells us for certain that there are east coast DHHS offices -- and they want to push their work off onto west coast workers.

      This is her choice. If I chose to work as an accountant in an office at, say, the University of Michigan and also chose to live in Dayton, OH, would anyone write stories about how awful the Ann Arbor housing market is, or would they rightly pronounce me a nut who makes bad choices?

    34. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      What T-shirt do you recommend for people that falsely accuse me of running a credit check when all I did was type in your stupid name in Google?

      "I Pooped Today" t-shirt. In brown, of course.

    35. Re:I took the bus once by mikael · · Score: 1

      Some places, a taxi ride is about £2.50/mile, a bus fare is £3/mile/person, taxi's can be picked up at a taxi queue, or wait 10 to 30 minutes depending on business (high demand when it is raining, cold or windy, train services have been cancelled). Then it becomes cheaper for three or more people to take a taxi than to take a bus.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    36. Re:I took the bus once by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Bike: 35-40 minutes, plus 10 minutes extra for the extra shower each evening

      Unless you are admitting that you do not take personal hygiene seriously and don't normally shower, you don't get to count your showers as part of your commute time. You do it anyway, at least that's what your fellow employees hope.

    37. Re:I took the bus once by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Altogether, it took me four hours to get there. And this was in a small city the size of San Franscisco.

      +1 funny. Small city?

      It would have taken you less time and much less effort to go look at the notes to see who they belonged to, called the college to have a message left for that student to "check the top of the bus stop for your notes, you moron", and they'd be back in his hands the next morning. At worst, call the office that runs the course the notes were for and the prof would announce in class for the idiot to go pick them up, which would have cost one or two class days.

      That leaves unasked the question, why is a student storing his class notes on the top of a bus stop?

    38. Re: I took the bus once by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Oakland might be a stretch, but Dublin would be easier than Stockton. Her story is odd at best... although I get up at 4AM to be at work at 8, and my commute is a 15 minute bike ride, and I shower at the office.

    39. Re: I took the bus once by operagost · · Score: 1

      So you weigh yourself after taking a dump to see how much your duke weighs, or what?

      Protip: these items can be completed the night before:
      - Weigh myself
      - Take a shower (tough one, I know)
      - Making lunch
      - Taking out trash (I don't know ANY place that doesn't let you put your trash out the night before as long as it's after dark)

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    40. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Do decent human beings share personal information like that?

      If you come from a farming family, everything underneath the sun is up for discussion.

      Maybe it's time for this t-shirt?

      Maybe you shouldn't use ten-year-old pictures?

    41. Re:I took the bus once by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      I live in Portland - about 15 miles from work - I think it takes between 30-35 minutes to get in by public transit. I think we have a decentish public transit system. I honestly haven't driven downtown in 8 years.

      If you're lucky and drive early enough to miss traffic its about 15 minutes - if you're lucky. If not - its about an hour with traffic.

    42. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Some people learn how to make efficient use of their time instead of expecting everything to take 3 times longer than the average person would consider reasonable.

      Thank God I'm not an average person then. That would be boring as hell.

    43. Re: I took the bus once by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Dublin is still super expensive, though.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    44. Re:I took the bus once by swb · · Score: 1

      I quit taking the express bus for driving for that reason -- my express bus route was taking 90 minutes a day, driving was around 40 minutes per day. I was literally getting 3 usable hours a week back driving.

      I think the only fix for this express route was to shorten the pre-"express" part. It covered about 5 miles of city streets collecting passengers and this accounted for about 25 of its 45 minute one-way trip. If they could cut that down to 2 miles of streets, it would have been much more time competitive.

    45. Re: I took the bus once by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      9-5 is hardly the norm at all. Standard government office hours are 8-5. Most backoffice & analyst types do 7-4

      So, like I said, she's done by 4PM at the latest.

      Also, for many govt employees, so they have a better chance of connecting with the home office types Back East.

      So you're saying she cannot do her job unassisted and must rely on people on the east coast? Is she there for the civilians on the west coast who need her help, or to be an aide to other government workers?

      And don't forget stockbrokers

      She is neither a stockbroker or in a job that requires close interaction with same. How far afield do you want to go?

    46. Re: I took the bus once by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Someone who starts work at 7AM has plenty of time after work

      Because she teleports back home instead of taking a bus and two trains? If it's a 3 hour trip there, (leaves 3:45 and starts at 7), and she works 7-3, a 3 hour trip back gets her home at 6PM. Now, if she wants a solid 8 hours of sleep, she immediately goes to bed to wake up at 2AM to do it all over again.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    47. Re: I took the bus once by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Oakland? Hardly.

      There are some affordable neighborhoods in Oakland. She will need to buy a gun, but that is still better than than a 3 hour commute.

    48. Re: I took the bus once by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      I used to hate it when somebody decided to schedule a meeting at 8:30 or 9:00 AM Eastern

      They did it not because they had to, but because they didn't give a damn about west coast people who were supposed to attend. You needed to have a chat with your AFSCME or other union rep about your work schedule being adjusted like that.

      Once the east coast gets the message because nobody from the west coast attends their little webchats they'll move them to the afternoon.

      Stockbroker was just an example of how odd schedules can get.

      I understand why some jobs require operating on other time zones. Government employee of DHHS isn't one of them. If the entire department needs to meet all at the same time, then move the department to the same time zone. The only reason to have an SF office is to deal with people in that area, especially considering the real estate prices there.

    49. Re: I took the bus once by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      she immediately goes to bed to wake up at 2AM to do it all over again.

      Or she spends an hour doing "after work" stuff while she's fully awake and working, goes to bed at 7 and gets up at 3AM.

      She's not doing anything but sipping coffee in the morning. She chooses to get up that early to do that. She chooses to live three hours away from work. This isn't earth shattering change-the-world news. We allow her the freedom to make those choices instead of worrying about how we can change the system so she doesn't have to suffer the consequences of them.

    50. Re:I took the bus once by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      extra shower each evening.

      I imagine bike to work, shower that side of commute, work, bike home, shower to be clean in the evening.

      An extra shower.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    51. Re:I took the bus once by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Tell me if this sounds familiar. You drive in to work and of course it's rush hour traffic. Everyone is impatient and pushing the boundaries of safety. Forget defensive driving, it's every man and woman for themselves! By the time you get to work you are tense and keyed up. If it's a hot day you are sweating both from the heat and from the adrenaline.

      Yup, that's basically right on the nose. And you also hit on another benefit I didn't mention - not having to worry about one of the many idiot drivers doing something stupid that injures or kills you just because you were unlucky enough to be in his proximity.

      If an idiot in a car does something stupid that impacts the train I'm on (which has happened a few times), the worse that'll happen to me is I end up a bit late. He, on the other hand, may end up in several pieces.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    52. Re:I took the bus once by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      At this point in my life, I've already been doing it for three decades. The internet didn't exist (practically speaking) for half of that, so remote work wasn't a practical option unless I changed fields. I did think about it... but never pulled the trigger.

      I think your advice is actually really good, though, especially for younger people.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    53. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Some of us have put our college days behind us and no longer spend 90 minutes fucking around between getting out of bed and leaving the house.

      I've known people who show up at work as if they just rolled out of bed, sometimes wearing the same clothes that they worked in the day before. That wouldn't fly at my current job with so many ex-military around. They won't hesitate to knock someone for not being dressed, groomed and ready to kick ass.

    54. Re:I took the bus once by bobbutts · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you had better taste in cars you'd enjoy your commute more, Mr. 93 Escort Wagon.

    55. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      For a grown man to spend 90 minutes between waking up and being ready to start the day is just ridiculous.

      That's the problem with society today: everyone is in a goddamn hurry to get somewhere. Since I get eight hours of sleep, and the first bus isn't until 6AM, I like to take my time getting ready for the day.

    56. Re: I took the bus once by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Seriously - it's not about "being in a rush" - it's about minimizing the time spent on "wasted" time so that you can spend your time doing more fulfilling, interesting, and valuable things.

      I'm not wasting my time in the morning. When I work into work, I'm fully relax and ready for the day. I'm not a screaming basket case from driving in the commute like so many of my coworkers.

      2) spend more time sitting on the toilet chuckling about how clever I am while I troll slashdot.

      Most mornings I'm dumbfounded by the lengthy comments that I get overnight from my trolls. I don't even bother reading them. These people seriously have nothing better to do with their lives than taunt a fat person over the Internet. Sad.

    57. Re: I took the bus once by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Summary says how much she makes.

      Re the GP, I've yet to see the commuter train that offers a shower and a private place to dress.

    58. Re: I took the bus once by volmtech · · Score: 1

      I'm retired and get to watch my wife get ready. She works nights as a nurse so it is a little different. Up at 7:00 pm. Fix coffee and a snack, eat while watching TV. Wander around looking for her glasses. Fix her face and hair. Try to find some clean scrubs. Watch a little more TV. Fix snacks and something to drink while at work. She is a pediatric home care nurse so no actual break time. She then packs her nursing bag, why it gets unpacked is beyond me. After she finds her keys and phone she leaves the house at 8:30.

      When I worked I got up at 4:00 am, got dressed, ate breakfast, fixed my lunch and was out the door at 4:20.

    59. Re: I took the bus once by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Yes, be clean for the part of the day when you don't interact with others and instead sleep in a pile of dead skin and bacteria, causing you to smell when you do interact with people. You stinky PM shower fuckers. Too many polite people around to tell you that you stink.

    60. Re: I took the bus once by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Yes, be clean for the part of the day when you don't interact with others and instead sleep in a pile of dead skin and bacteria, causing you to smell when you do interact with people.

      You stinky PM shower fuckers. Too many polite people around to tell you that you stink.

      If you shower in the PM, your bed won't be a pile of dead skin and bacteria. Further, I don't work up a stink while sleeping, while sitting in my office, etc. If you do, it may be time for a diet.

      I bet your linens are oily, sentient rags at this point.

  5. Build more housing by JoshuaZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The solution to the problems is really simple: build more housing. How do you get more housing built? Well, for starts not having some of the most restrictive zoning laws in the country, and having people fight back at any housing that is less than ideal would be a major aspect. Unfortunately, there are people who are advocates for the poor who don't get this and have gone out of their way to block housing that doesn't have affordable housing built into it, which just results in total fewer housing.

    1. Re:Build more housing by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The solution is to stop centralizing things. It can work great for information but not for physical things.

      Make more smaller cities and flee the megapolis mentality.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:Build more housing by JoshuaZ · · Score: 2

      Boston, New York, Tokyo, and London are all very large cities with big tech sectors without these problems being nearly as severe. The greater Boston area includes Sommervile is literally the densest area by population in New England and is much denser than the Bay Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerville,_Massachusetts but the rental cost is literally more than order of magnitude than it is for the same thing in the Bay. And the amount of housing construction in the Bay Area is literally almost zero https://www.curbed.com/2016/2/24/11102278/bay-area-housing-crisis-bubble. The problem really here is a lack of construction that is coming almost completely from overly strict zoning and building codes. Centralization doesn't enter into it.

    3. Re:Build more housing by Tailhook · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think that's really the solution. I agree that SF et al. are BANANA hells and have impeded development and caused prices to explode and all sorts of other distortions but, ultimately, carpeting the land with skyscraper apartment buildings to house all these people would just alleviate one pressure point in a dysfunctional system.

      Sheila James is a bureaucrat. She writes stuff and reads stuff and participates in conference calls. Is there any actual reason Sheila James needs to be in SF proper to operate her email inbox in 2017? Why must all the Sheila James of the world converge on a couple coastal CA cities by the millions? Probably 90% of the people working in SF could just live somewhere else with no noticeable loss of capability.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    4. Re:Build more housing by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      The people that insist that "housing for the poor" is a worthwhile goal are also the people that through their actions promote poverty.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    5. Re:Build more housing by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      We don't need houses, we can all live in yurts and share the environment with the snipes, hoop snakes, drop bears and other creatures of the Earth.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    6. Re:Build more housing by avandesande · · Score: 1

      It's really weird-like the way computers were supposed to reduce paper waste we shouldn't need to travel to work anymore yet exactly the opposite has happened.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    7. Re:Build more housing by Moof123 · · Score: 1

      San Francisco is a megaopolis in denial. Allow more high density family housing while taxing the hell out of cars to pay for more subway lines. San Francisco is currently a giant suburb that needs to evolve more towards a dense city to satisfy housing demands.

    8. Re:Build more housing by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The solution to the problems is really simple: build more housing. How do you get more housing built? Well, for starts not having some of the most restrictive zoning laws in the country, and having people fight back at any housing that is less than ideal would be a major aspect. Unfortunately, there are people who are advocates for the poor who don't get this and have gone out of their way to block housing that doesn't have affordable housing built into it, which just results in total fewer housing.

      Actually, the problem is the US's dreadful public transport network.

      Here in the UK, a train journey of 80 miles is easily accomplished in 1.5 hours, 2 hours at a stretch. That means you can leave Winchester at 5:15 and make a starting time of 07:00 in Central London and I'm including a short tube journey from London Waterloo to somewhere like Bank.

      That being said, a 2 hour journey is still not ideal but the money in central London is often worth it. Much like central San Francisco, no one lives in central London unless they're a multi-millionaire. For popular business hubs, one should be able to live outside it and get in relatively quickly.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:Build more housing by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Centralization does enter into it, at least partially. If there were more smaller cities to work in, people would have more choices about where they'd like to live.

      Want to work for Apple, Google or any other giant corporation? Nope, only one fucking place for each on the entire planet. That's insane. The other problem is the paperwork. Companies like paperwork so much that having more of smaller units cost more to run, which is the opposite of how biology works. Giant animals? Extinct or on the verge of extinction. Small mammals and insects? Billions of them.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    10. Re:Build more housing by evolutionary · · Score: 1

      That doesn't work. Here in Toronto, we build more housing in the form of condo's, so-called town houses, and even a few rental properties (but mostly condo's or townhouses with 750-850 sq. ft). Because of speculation, everyone charges the same crazy rents (including individual condo owners rental) and rental prices have not gone down. The only glimmer of hope is that the the housing bubble appears to have finally burst here. But more housing doesn't result in lower rent/property prices if you have people speculating that they can charge the same high prices and get someone to pay it. Foreign speculation and flipping have played a big part in the increasing insane housing and rental prices here. Lots of that in Vancouver and likely San Fran as well.

      --
      "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
    11. Re:Build more housing by swillden · · Score: 1

      carpeting the land with skyscraper apartment buildings to house all these people would just alleviate one pressure point in a dysfunctional system

      Skyscraper apartment buildings don't "carpet" the land, exactly the opposite. The current strategy results in carpeting the land with low-density housing for a hundred miles in every (non-ocean) direction. Skyscraper apartment buildings are far better. They're by far the lowest-footprint, least-impactful way for humans to live.

      I think that sort of living sucks, myself, but there are a lot of people who like it.

      Is there any actual reason Sheila James needs to be in SF proper to operate her email inbox in 2017?

      Sure, telecommuting is also a good option. I do it myself -- and love it because it allows me to live where I want, surrounded by lots of space. But most people don't like telecommuting. Yeah, companies should allow more of their employees to choose to work remotely, where it works, but that's orthogonal to the question of housing demand in SF.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    12. Re:Build more housing by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The solution is to stop centralizing things.

      Big cities have higher productivity. NYC has 60% higher productivity than the American average. Centralization is good.

      There is no shortage of space in SF. They just need to go vertical. The problem is that the people living there have a vested interest in keeping property prices high, and the people that want to live there but can't afford to don't get to vote.

      How Zoning Laws Exacerbate Inequality.

    13. Re:Build more housing by jedrek · · Score: 1

      I know a bunch of people who work for Google and none of them do it in SF.

    14. Re:Build more housing by jedrek · · Score: 1

      I dunno man, I live about 8 hours from my job... by air.

    15. Re:Build more housing by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, there are people who are advocates for the poor who don't get this and have gone out of their way to block housing that doesn't have affordable housing built into it, which just results in total fewer housing.

      Actually, it's the existing homeowners that are the problem.

      If you start building skyscrapers with condos in San Francisco, the value of the property of the existing homeowners goes down as you alleviate scarcity. They'd really like the shack they rent out to continue to be worth $1M. And they will use plenty of excuses to prevent re-zoning to keep their property values high.

    16. Re:Build more housing by avandesande · · Score: 2

      I am 100% remote too it makes it seem even more nuts.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    17. Re:Build more housing by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      No centralizing works fine. Decentralizing also works fine.

      What doesn't work is the suburban sprawl level of centralization and decentralization. You get none of the benefits of centralization (ie. effective public transportation) and none of the benefits of decentralization (ie. more open space).

    18. Re:Build more housing by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      Want to work for Apple, Google or any other giant corporation? Nope, only one fucking place for each on the entire planet. That's insane.

      That may be true for Apple (not counting retail Apple Stores), but Google definitely has multiple locations, as do other 'giant corporations'.

    19. Re:Build more housing by doom · · Score: 1

      The solution to the problems is really simple: build more housing. How do you get more housing built? Well, for starts not having some of the most restrictive zoning laws in the country, and having people fight back at any housing that is less than ideal would be a major aspect.

      Another genius arrives to lecture us about supply-and-demand:

      (1) San Francisco is building shit like crazy. Do you want me to show you pictures of the cranes? A recent initiative has voters telling developers, no they can't shove whatever they want right down on the coastline-- that was it, but people who don't live around here insist on lecturing us about Supply And Demand.

      (2) San Francisco is surrounded with places with far more tight zoning restrictions, but they're allowed to keep those because of the god-given right of suburbanites everywhere. It's hard to pay people to live in Silicon Valley these days, so they're busing people in from places like San Francisco hence rents are up, and the solution to that difficulty is-- we need to fix San Francisco!

    20. Re:Build more housing by doom · · Score: 1

      I know a bunch of people who work for Google and none of them do it in SF.

      Yeah, if they started letting programmers work in SF the exodus from Mountain View would quickly overwhelm the space they have up north.

      Me, I think they should steal a page from the sports stadiums, and tell Mountain View they're thinking about moving to Fremont if they don't get the building permissions they want.

    21. Re:Build more housing by Pulzar · · Score: 1

      That may be true for Apple (not counting retail Apple Stores)

      Not true for Apple, either. There's plenty of engineering being done in Austin.

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    22. Re:Build more housing by newdsfornerds · · Score: 1

      YES! Why does EVERYTHING have to happen in a handful of cities? We all have to cram ourselves into NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, Dallas and Houston if we want to be where the action is. WHY?

      --
      Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
    23. Re:Build more housing by doom · · Score: 1

      And the amount of housing construction in the Bay Area is literally almost zero-bubble. The problem really here is a lack of construction that is coming almost completely from overly strict zoning and building codes.

      I have an idea, let's look at the article you just posted a link to: https://www.curbed.com/2016/2/...

      Consider that in 2015 the Bay Area added 64,000 new jobs, most of them in the Silicon Valley, but less than 5,000 new homes were constructed, Motter said. The inventory of Silicon Valley housing has declined by 10 percent since 2014, and the region has experienced a shortage of nearly 25,000 units since 2007, according to the Joint Venture Silicon Valley Institute for Regional Studies.

      Even just using those numbers, that is not anything like "literally zero", and it's also "the Bay Area" as whole. If we take a look at what they say about San Francisco:

      Some 5,500 apartments currently under construction will provide some relief for the San Francisco rental market.

      So, San Francisco is about to add as many units as the entire Bay Area did in 2015. Just using these numbers.

      I'm emphasizing that I haven't checked these numbers because this actually looks like junk news to me-- it's a real estate investment rag, quoting building developers. You might as well ask a Hollywood producer about the quality of their upcoming releases.

    24. Re:Build more housing by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      Skyscraper apartment buildings don't "carpet" the land

      Haven't traveled much have you? Visit Paris some time.

      But most people don't like telecommuting.

      People don't like commuting for hours either. Guess what else people don't like; they don't like your "lowest-footprint, least-impactful" apartment block hellscapes and living in a glorified bedroom in a tower. That's why anywhere that geography and the prevailing laws allow high density urbanity doesn't emerge. Suburbs and exburbs emerge. So when you're dealing in what people do and don't like try to keep that in mind.

      And I never mentioned telecommuting. That was you inferring something based on your own predilections and further evidence of your limited world view. If Sheila James and her ilk would like an office somewhere then so be it, but perhaps we could simple not try to pile all those offices into the same few square miles of la-la land.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    25. Re:Build more housing by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      San Francisco Bay area too centralized? It has three core cities that are 50 miles apart, with dozens of smaller cities between and around them. Few, if any, American metropolitan areas can realistically be considered "too centralized", and the Bay Area is definitely not one of them.

    26. Re:Build more housing by hey! · · Score: 2

      Here's an interesting exercise. Use Google Street View to compare a virtual walking tour of the residential neighborhoods of Tapei, and compare them to San Francisco. In this case we're looking at two neighborhoods of single family dwellings.

      In general single family houses have a smaller footprint in Taipei and are a bit taller, and streets are much narrower. There are also more streets of low rise apartment blocks. There are obviously some high rise apartments, but apparently earthquake regulation discourage them so you see a lot places that have apartments that are just shy of the height where the regulations kick in. Likewise browsing through the satellite view of San Francisco it is striking how rare high rise apartment buildings are, compared to say Manhattan. The vast majority of housing stock is maybe three stories high.

      So in a way San Franciso looks more like Taipei than it does New York, probably in part because like Taipei it is shaped by earthquake concerns and have quite a bit of topography to deal with. In fact they have almost the same population density: 7,500/km^2 for Taipei vs vs 7,170/km^2 for San Francisco. Taipei's Da'an district, which I linked to above, has a staggering density of 28,000/km^2. But Taipei's population has spread out into the sprawling, 8000 km^2 New Taipei City (population 3.9 million) that surrounds the capital. San Francisco is constrained by water on three sides, and to the south the available space on the peninsula is reduced by massive conservation areas. Short of replacing a lot of its low-rise housing stock with high-rise, earthquake-proof apartment blocks I don't see how San Francisco can accommodate working class people at all.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    27. Re:Build more housing by Strudelkugel · · Score: 1

      Here's one perspective on your idea I'm not sure if big cities can be considered monopolies, or if telecommuting technologies will someday be at the point where people don't have / want to be in high population areas. Of course if hyperloop technology delivers, cities may change again. Seems we should be discussing this more as a nation.

      --
      Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
    28. Re:Build more housing by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

      I agree that public transit is part of the problem. Of course, the two US cities I used as examples, Boston and NYC have some of the best public transit systems in the country. This is not a coincidence.

    29. Re:Build more housing by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... Increased supply by 5000, but demand increased by 64,000. That seems like a net loss of 59,000 homes. So it's not zero - on net, it's a loss.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    30. Re:Build more housing by mikael · · Score: 1

      More apartments/flats/condo units attracts more single people. Then the bus services need to be upgraded as well as the freeways. Then all those single people want family homes.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    31. Re:Build more housing by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      NYC has 60% higher productivity than the American average.

      Does that include all the costs, like time spent commuting, time spent working a second job to pay for the tiny apartment for those who don't commute, the prices of everything, the noise, the pollution, the crime ...? Or is it a measure of only the at-work output?

      You might want to consider that the company-owned mining and mill towns had a pretty high productivity, too.

    32. Re:Build more housing by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      You don't hit a critical mass with small cities. That doesn't mean you can't have interconnected communities in a metropolitan area to support "industry", but each community has to value housing, walkabikity, and transit.

      The old way of doing bedroom communities doesn't work.

    33. Re:Build more housing by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Specifically: don't allow new office space to be built if you're not going to allow new housing.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    34. Re:Build more housing by swillden · · Score: 1

      Skyscraper apartment buildings don't "carpet" the land

      Haven't traveled much have you? Visit Paris some time.

      I lived in Paris for two months, and in aggregate have spent at least another six months there throughout the course of my 50 years of life. I've been to every continent except Antarctica, spent several years living outside the US, and have visited at least three dozen countries.

      Imagine what Paris would look like if you tried to put the same number of people in detached homes. You'd have a residential area that extends at least to Orleans and Saint Quentin, nothing but houses. It would be impractical, and unlivable.

      But most people don't like telecommuting.

      People don't like commuting for hours either.

      Many, many people actually prefer that over not having the socialization they get at work. I spent 10 years telecommuting full time for a company (IBM) that pushed everyone out of the offices and into telecommuting. Some of us, like me, loved it. Others -- probably the majority -- hated it and many of them left the company because of that fact.

      Guess what else people don't like; they don't like your "lowest-footprint, least-impactful" apartment block hellscapes and living in a glorified bedroom in a tower.

      You apparently didn't read my post. I know lots of people who commute for hours *out* of the city because they want that badly to live *in* the city. They could live much closer to work, for less money, but they don't want to. They have the money to live where they want, and where they want to live is in a highrise in San Francisco.

      I think they're nuts. They look at my choice (rural Utah) and think I'm nuts. Different strokes.

      That's why anywhere that geography and the prevailing laws allow high density urbanity doesn't emerge. Suburbs and exburbs emerge. So when you're dealing in what people do and don't like try to keep that in mind.

      Utter nonsense. Suburbs and exurbs are an almost uniquely American thing. Most of the world's population is clustered in cities, and it's not because of zoning laws or geography. Even in the US, 80% of the population lives in urban areas.

      If Sheila James and her ilk would like an office somewhere then so be it, but perhaps we could simple not try to pile all those offices into the same few square miles of la-la land.

      There are very good reasons why all of the office buildings cluster together. I've seen what happens when you spread them out. As it happens, IBM did that for most of a century and ended up with many such company towns all over the northeast, especially upstate New York and Connecticut. By and large, employees hated them. You can't get a job with the company without moving to the company town, and you can't leave the company without having to move out of the company town. Cities with clusters of businesses are good for both the businesses and the employees. Employees have job mobility, without uprooting and disrupting their lives, and companies have a large labor pool without having to relocate people.

      Your way has been tried. It doesn't work well. Telecommuting has been tried. It works for some people and some jobs. By and large, people are going to continue working in cities, either living in them or commuting to them. So we should make it easy for those who want to live in cities to do so by building enough housing, and easy for those who want to commute to do so, by building transit infrastructure.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    35. Re:Build more housing by Tailhook · · Score: 2

      Suburbs and exurbs are an almost uniquely American thing.

      There's a bunch of bunk. I lived with coworkers in a suburb of Lyon in France. The minute people have the means to leave your treeless urban hellscapes they do it; nothing uniquely murican about it. The fact that it is harder to get the means in Europe making it less common is orthogonal; when they can they do. Full stop.

      IBM did that for most of a century

      Arguing with success right there. IBM dominated its field for most of that century and is still a mighty force offering full stack solutions from chips to bodies. When you get above the world of hipster startups and investor funny money you find IBM. IBM is still distributed in nearly all 50 states. One wonders whether a hypothetical IBM — stupidly consolidated in the SF — could have expected all of their employees to show up at the office, as they've done recently.

      Telecommuting has been tried.

      More arguing with success. IBM has its reasons, but the rest of the US is going another way. The Growing Army of Americans Who Work From Home

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    36. Re:Build more housing by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      I'm not even talking! You're just reading what I wrote! You can stop reading!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    37. Re:Build more housing by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      People, please... I work inside the Internet!

      At least that's what I tell my boss in order to telecommute 105% of the time.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    38. Re:Build more housing by mikael · · Score: 2

      The problem with smaller cities is that you end up with a complete relocation to another city to find a new job. Unless your industry sector has a large enough supply of employers, being an engineer becomes like Logan's Run. Then you end up with people commuting 50+ miles between smaller cities. This happens in England in the South East (Reading, Basingstoke, Oxford, Cambridge, Southampton).

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    39. Re:Build more housing by mikael · · Score: 1

      Because you want to change jobs without having to move house. Changing jobs in a big city, simply involves changing your commute. Changing jobs with a one company town employer involves a complete relocation of buying/selling a home, find the children a new school.

      Employers want to expand where they can recruit workers easily, ideally overnight. With a big city, they can just put out adverts. With a small town employer, they either have to keep that position open for ages or grab whoever happens to be free at the workplace at the time.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    40. Re:Build more housing by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 1

      Somerville is going to get much worse if the Green Line Extension ever takes off.

      I'm trying to figure out where I can buy a place for under $400k that might have a reasonable commute to work so I'm not dying in the hour each way kind of situation OR having to work odd hours (anything outside of 7:30-6 is odd). There's a guy who gets in at 5am and leaves by 3pm every day. Forget that.

    41. Re:Build more housing by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      A corollary to not centralizing is to stop requiring employees to all go to the same building, at the same time, every day.

    42. Re:Build more housing by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Is "slum" a historical look?

      SF is square mile after square mile of bog standard annular crumbling 2BR ZLL townhouses. Nothing would be lost by razing large swaths of them.

      Living in a shitty apartment would be only marginally worse than living in one of those. You already have no auditory privacy or space.

    43. Re:Build more housing by doom · · Score: 1

      And we're required to "keep up with demand"? And even if you conclude the Bay Area needs to build more, why exactly should the entire burden fall on San Francisco, and not those suburban paradises down south of here?

      (We could just wait for bubble 2.0 to pop, and for the demand to go away.)

      And like I've been aaying, on this subject, no one in their right mind would trust a real estate investor, a building developer or a libertarian.

    44. Re:Build more housing by doom · · Score: 1

      The minute people have the means to leave your treeless urban hellscapes they do it; nothing uniquely murican about it.

      You're completely out of touch with what's actually going on-- going by rents and tourist dollars, those "urban hellscapes" are some of the most popular places in the US, and young people have completely gotten over the "romance" of spending your life stuck in a car commute.

  6. Build more broadband. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Telecommuting would solve this problem, and be a LOT cheaper to boot.

    1. Re:Build more broadband. by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Broadband is not the issue here so much as old-fashioned and incredibly inefficient management styles.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  7. aaaand Slashdot is dead by spire3661 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Its been fun, but this social shit is not what this place is for.

    --
    Good-bye
    1. Re:aaaand Slashdot is dead by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      So long and thanks for all the fish.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:aaaand Slashdot is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, and your score is now 2, with "Troll", even though what you write is 100% true.
      Why is this crap on Slashdot.

    3. Re:aaaand Slashdot is dead by snarfies · · Score: 1

      Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

  8. commuting by Nick · · Score: 1

    I can't appreciate enough being able to work from home even though I'm a couple miles away and easy access via public transit, Uber, Lyft, Taxi, etc. After having spent years on the CTA I'd like to think I earned it though.

    --
    Fuck Ajit Pai
  9. meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by k6mfw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A friend returned from recent vacation in S. Korea and Japan was amazed by the rail systems and speaking of bay area Caltrains, "It is so 3rd world country."

    I saved this from one of you posters here on slashdot, worth a mention as I was talking with someone who said high speed rail and other such things are guvmint boondoggles. For me I use a car but then I've moved here in the 20th century so I don't have to commute hundreds of miles.

    “give out surveys where people rate the relative importance of things.”

    That’s likely not going to get you anything useful. What it gets you is a survey of what people think is best for them. And they’re not right a lot of the time, because few people are investors and visionaries. Most people are short-term practical people.

    As an example, traffic is getting worse and worse in my little city. Everyone is talking about how we can improve the roads and highways, we’re widening some, improving intersections at others, but nobody is really talking about public transportation. What we need are a couple of light rail lines from the growing suburbs to downtown and the job hubs. That would likely fix a lot of the traffic problems. But that requires people to think longer-term, and rethink how they go about their daily life.

    Instead of spending 25 minutes, now 30, now 35 minutes in the car commuting, they need to think about catching a 5 min bus ride, then sitting and checking email for 20 min before getting off near work. But that’s far harder to wrap your head around than “I wish I could shave 10 minutes off my drive to work.” Survey people, and they want less traffic congestion and a better drive to work. That frankly can’t happen without public transportation, but nobody wants that.

    Hmmm, our featured person already spends a lot of time on the train. Oh wait, this has been debated before but it was about cars! https://www.c-span.org/video/?...

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
    1. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Indeed.

      This person travels 80-90 miles. Here is an example of someone who travels 120 miles per day (scroll down to the comment by Sprinterguy) and it him takes 2 hours door to door.

      The issue isn't the distance, it's the poor state of public transport in the USA.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    2. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I was talking with someone who said high speed rail and other such things are guvmint boondoggles.

      Often the plans are boondoggles. Why not instead spend it on medium-speed rail that's placed where it's actually needed. And because it's cheaper than high-speed rail, more railways can be built for the same money. Stop trying to go for a home-run, just get players on bases.

    3. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      In the USA traditional rail is cargo first and passengers second. That's why it takes forever to get anywhere by rail.

    4. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The most expensive thing about rail typically is getting the right of way rights, only afterwards does laying track and track maintenance come into the equation. Lowering the train speed doesn't solve that issue.

    5. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Anyone that has actually used a bus knows this is bs.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    6. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Yes, we would rather pay $100 billion to build a "high speed rail" (which does around 200 kph - normal speed in the rest of the world), and start laying track in the middie of the lowest-density part of the State, and do so without any plan on how to connect to the largest metropolitan area in the country - no way to get around/over/through the mountains that must be traversed. So we don't spend on small transit - we spend huge on big transit that can't be built!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    7. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's because the cargo lines own the rails.

    8. Re:meanwhile in Korea and Japan... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      By removing houses? I thought that's part of the problem.

  10. "Her"? by Black.Shuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What is it with 3rd-person pronouns in clickbait headlines these days?

    - "She totally did a thing, now you totally want to click, right?"
    - "What he did next will make you click!"
    - "Five cocktails and seven martinis get her through brunch!"

    At the risk of sounding ancient; who's "she", the cat's mother?

    I mean, good manners don't cost nuffin' now, do they?

    1. Re:"Her"? by chispito · · Score: 1

      You forgot the most obnoxious of all:
      ...will make your jaw drop.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  11. I don't get it. by jellomizer · · Score: 1, Redundant

    So she chose this life style. If waking up at 2:30 isn't her thing, she could Drive and avoid public transportation and leave at a more reasonable hour.

    She doesn't have to use public transportation she can drive further (she already seems to have a car because she drives to the train station)
    She doesn't need to live so far away she can choose a smaller home, or choose to get some roommates to split the cost.
    She can probably find a job closer to her home.

    Sure cost of living in such areas have skyrocketed to a point where non-rich people cant live in the area. Thanks to gentrification and policies that try to get rid of poor people from living in the area all under protecting your property investment. But if needed they are other options.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:I don't get it. by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > So she chose this life style. If waking up at 2:30 isn't her thing, she could Drive and avoid public transportation and leave at a more reasonable hour.

      In the bay area? Perhaps not. I get what you're saying, and part of time spent could very well be due to the county's poor schedule management for public transportation -- for instance, the feeder arrives just after the train left, and there won't be another for an hour, and when it finally comes, it'll arrive at the other end just after the feeder left -- but driving the bay area freeway system during rush hour may not gain her much in transit time.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:I don't get it. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The problem is the poor explanation of the problems. Explaining your life trade offs isn't really a good way to stir interest in the cause you are fighting for.
      If she is trying to explain how the area she needs to work is so expensive that a decent middle class job is too expensive, her story just didn't hit any feelings.

      I myself live 25 miles away from my work, were it is cheaper, I get up at 4:30 to go to the Gym before work. Then it take me an hour to get back home. I don't see this as a Sob story. I could live closer if I wanted to, but the longer commute allowed me to have a nicer home.

       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  12. Re:...Film at 11:00 by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    What do you mean? European 11:00AM or American 11:00PM?

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  13. Not a great story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...but the comments here are an absolute shit-show of whiny, self-centered assholes who can't resist telling the world how much they don't care about other people.

    1. Re:Not a great story by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Welcome to America! Have you check out our flyer on the American Dream? Your options are expensive, more expensive and really expensive. There is a modest lifestyle option that forsakes the American Dream but everyone will resent you for being happy with less.

  14. Re:...Film at 11:00 by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    If you're waking up at 11:00PM, then you're probably late for work, no matter what shift you're on.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  15. Quality of life in the Silicon Valley by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

    One can have a great quality of life in the Silicon Valley, provided one brings in $300K+ a year, or one is independently wealthy. For the rest, it is a rather miserable existence. The weather tends to be nice though - except during the rainy season.

  16. Re:She thinks the job is worth it by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    The United States Department of Health and Human Services probably has a pension plan. If I were her, I'd absolutely work another 3 years until I'm 65, and retire. It's worth it even if I'm spending 6+ hours a day commuting.

    If I were 25 and in the same commute situation, I would do everything I could to get out of the situation. Sell the house, rent an apartment closer even if it means having roommates, move in with my parents, find a lower paying job closer but pays enough that I can still make my mortgage, etc.

    Things are easier if you have a degree in something that is in demand. If you have the choice early in life, be an MBA, Engineer, Scientist or Medical Doctor.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  17. Yes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...we in the central valley LOVE the people turning our beautiful farmlands into cheap bedrooms for rich Bay Area people to commute to/from.
    Live within your means, people.

  18. Pick your solution to this problem: by ErichTheRed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are a few solutions to this problem, pick one or more:
    1. Reduce the need for people to show up for work at a physical office
    2. Make transportation, both public and private, hyper-efficient
    3. Pop the housing bubble around Northern California (and other large metros) by popping the Second Dotcom Bubble
    4. Add more housing in the area so people aren't desperately waving sacks of money around saying, "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me pay $4000 a month for a 1-bedroom apartment!"

    I live near New York City and back before I had kids I used to commute on the train for work; did it for a couple of multi-year stints before I had had enough. I'm about 60 miles away, and it was easily a 1.5 hour train and subway ride each direction when everything was going perfectly. There are plenty of stories like the one in the article, and I remember hearing tales of multi-hour commutes from places like Stockton and Sacramento as the First Dotcom Bubble was about to hit its peak in 1999. I did my crazy commute for financial gain; I was getting paid a New York salary and living a comfortable distance away. Sheila James, being 62 and a government employee, was most likely priced out of the San Francisco market and is trying to hang on a few more years, as federal pensions are calculated based on final average salary and years of service. These days, you'd really have to offer me a crazy amount of money to go back to doing it...even with cutting my day short and working part of it on the train, it's a life-eater. I work at a place that's closer to home, pays less, but lets me be home more which is more important to me lately.

    Housing bubbles suck. Permanently overpriced real estate markets suck more. Metro NY is a perfect example...not nearly as bad as California once you leave the city, but prices are permanently high just because so much wealth is concentrated here. You have everything from "old money" to celebrities to CEOs to hedge-fund Masters of the Universe, and if they're not living in Midtown Manhattan, they want to live right outside of it. It makes it difficult to find good housing a reasonable distance from work.

    1. Re:Pick your solution to this problem: by cunina · · Score: 1

      Thank you for saying this. I currently commute "only" an hour each way, and I've "only" been doing it for three years, and I feel like I'm dying on the inside. I was wondering if I'm just a whiner, but I suspect lots of people with my schedule feel the same way - they just don't want to say so because society rewards Good Little Troopers.

  19. Face Time [Re:Build more housing] by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's really weird-like the way computers were supposed to reduce paper waste we shouldn't need to travel to work anymore yet exactly the opposite has happened.

    It worked too well, actually. It made it far easier to outsource work to Timbuktu for $2/hr. The remaining jobs require "face time" in order to be competitive with $2/hr Timbuktuians. It's one of the few advantages a physical office worker has over them.

    1. Re:Face Time [Re:Build more housing] by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I would bet that half the people working on site in san-fran don't really need to physically be there.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    2. Re:Face Time [Re:Build more housing] by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Whether that's true or not may not matter: it's what the PHB's and owners believe.

  20. Choices by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Having children is a choice, in most circumstances, and rearranging your life accordingly is one of the costs that should be accepted.

    Being an inconsiderate jerk is a choice, in most circumstances too.

    People have kids and that's a good thing. Refusing to acknowledge that reality is just you being a selfish inconsiderate jerk. Your parents made sacrifices for you just like everyone else's parents. Cut them some slack. Someday it might be your turn. But with an attitude like that hopefully not soon...

    1. Re:Choices by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Being an inconsiderate jerk is a choice, in most circumstances too.

      People have kids and that's a good thing. Refusing to acknowledge that reality is just you being a selfish inconsiderate jerk.

      Between the divorce rate, the present day courts and child support, it is a reasoned decision, not being a jerk.

      Besides, who are you to tell men what they do with their bodies?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re: Choices by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      I don't exist to subsidize people who self-inflict chronic disease by consuming tobacco, meat, or large quantities of alcohol.

      Get the point?

    3. Re:Choices by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      The GP did not make a value judgement nor did he/she say anything negative about having kids. Having a kid is indeed a choice, and those of us who can't afford to have someone else raise them trade off all manner of things for potentially the rest of our lives when we make the decision. In my case I lost the genetic lottery and will have to work for the rest of my life to financially care for my son. But I knew up front what I was getting into, and that every conception is a roll of the dice.

      Mind you one does encounter "child free movement" people who are jerks about it, but the GP here wasn't expressing that. Suggest you cut the GP some slack.

  21. A friend of mine does this by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    I have a friend who lives in Livermore (living close in was not affordable) and commutes into the city [1]. Driving the bay area freeways during rush hour is out of the question, so he only drives as far as the nearest train station, takes the train most of the way there, and then gets into his second car and drives the rest of the way to work. Part of the reason for the two car solution was that there wasn't a train/bus solution that didn't involve him leaving the house at 0-dark-thirty and hoofing it for much of the distance.

    It works for him, I guess. Myself, I moved to an area with less traffic and more affordable housing.

    [1] To old time bay area residents, San Francisco is "The City". Never its full name unless you're talking to out-of-towners, and never ever "frisco".

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:A friend of mine does this by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I lived in that area before adulthood, and you are correct.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:A friend of mine does this by twistedcubic · · Score: 1

      Nice!

    3. Re:A friend of mine does this by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      They make shoes out of wool?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    4. Re:A friend of mine does this by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      "The City. My The City."

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  22. Re:Move workplaces by roc97007 · · Score: 2

    > Why should all places of work be placed in high price areas?

    I think you might have cause and effect reversed. Areas become high price because that's where the work is.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  23. 90 minutes to get ready? by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I get up at 4:30AM to catch the 6AM bus outside of my apartment complex. It takes me 90 minutes to get ready and out the door. Some of us had put our college days behind us and no longer roll out of bed wearing the work clothes from yesterday.

    Are you getting ready for the prom or something? 90 minutes to get ready? Seriously? I can roll out of bed, shower, dress, feed and bathroom three dogs, grab my lunch and be on the road in under 20 minutes. If you are taking 90 minutes you are Doing It Wrong. And I haven't been an undergrad for over 20 years so don't give me the age excuse.

    1. Re:90 minutes to get ready? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I'm not a morning person. I roll in at 10 and am still tired. I move in slow motion when I wake up.

    2. Re:90 minutes to get ready? by mikael · · Score: 1

      Probably he's eating his breakfast while having a shower and bathrooming the dogs ...

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    3. Re:90 minutes to get ready? by Chrontius · · Score: 1

      https://www.livescience.com/53...

      I, for one, am much better at staying up than getting up. If I don't drink two cups of coffee before a shower, I'll forget whether I washed my hair. This may happen up to five times (I think...) in a row. Most of my "wasted" time in the mornings is the minimum amount of time to scrape the blear out of my eyes and make sure I'm safe to drive before I get in a car.

    4. Re:90 minutes to get ready? by sjbe · · Score: 1

      Not a dog parent, but I find it unbelievable that just feeding and bathrooming the dogs can be done in 20 minutes, nevermind everything else on top of that.

      Unless your dog is extremely poorly trained it takes 5 minutes tops. Very few dogs take more than a minute or two to consume their meal and pottying them should take 2 minutes tops. I have three dogs and it just doesn't take long unless you live in a high rise or something. If you take 20 minutes to feed and potty your dogs you are just wasting time.

  24. Re:what an idiot by ScentCone · · Score: 2

    Her "company" is the federal government, which operates offices like hers because that's where the people it serves are concentrated. Do you really think that having a couple of large employers uproot from SV and move to, say, Omaha, would make the need for a federal bureaucratic presence in SV go away?

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  25. $1,600 for the one-bedroom apartment rent controls by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    $1,600 for the one-bedroom apartment we need some more rent controls

  26. In the late 90's by future+assassin · · Score: 2

    I got a job at a local ISP. It took me two buses and a sky train to get to work. Left home at 6:45 and got to the place 34Km away at 9:20. This was in the Greater Vancouver area from Maple Ridge to Burnaby BC.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  27. This just in.... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    The Bay Area is expensive, traffic is a shit show, and public transportation takes hours to get you where you need to be.

    In other breaking news, water is still wet.

    --
    Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  28. Re:Boo Fucking Hoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Remind me to never start choking near you, because Id be fucked.
    "He chose to not chew his food good enough, fuck him!"

  29. Causes: by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1 - Proposition 13. An anti-tax measure that may have been necessary at the time, but went way too far to the point where Bay Area cities are incentivized to approve more business developments but less housing because of the amount of revenue they bring in. The result is a massive jobs-housing imbalance as cities gain more jobs but not enough housing to keep up, resulting in long commutes from out of town.

    2 - A strong NIMBY lobby. Established residents are vocal in their opposition to more housing in "their" town. Councils feel pressured to resist new developments.

    3 - Induced demand. Caltrans has an unbelievably wasteful policy of widening highways in the hope that it'll alleviate traffic congestion despite a mountain of evidence that this does not work and that more highway lanes just causes more traffic as people move out to cheaper suburbs to get a bigger house for the same price and a (temporarily) reasonable commute time. By the time everyone has the same idea, highways are jammed again.

    4 - Anti-transit sentiment. Roads are less efficient than rails, but it's a lot easier to get funding for them.

    5 - Single-use-zoning. Putting daily needs out of walking distance of each other forces nearly everyone to drive throughout the day. The result is massive car ownership and demands for more facilities to accommodate private cars.

    6 - Fragmented local government. It's very hard to get region-wide transit developments done when each city is only focused on its own interests.

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
    1. Re:Causes: by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Roads are less efficient than rails,

      Rails may be more efficient in dollars per person-mile, but they are not more efficient where most people care: total travel time. Why is that? Because rail travel still requires getting to and from the station. Unless you are lucky enough to work and live right next to the stations you need to use for rail travel, you still need some form of transport. It's like the "last mile" problem in Internet terms.

      I.e., people don't care about the "efficiency" that rail has, they want the convenience and efficiency that matters to them. This is an example of bus use, but imagine how it will map to trains: it is a five minute walk to the closest bus stop for me. The bus takes half an hour to wind its way through the streets to get me to work. It's a ten minute drive by car. Which is more efficient? Well, I'm sure the bus carries more people per gallon per hour, but I don't care about that. I save at least almost an hour a day (twice 25 minutes) by driving, and usually a lot more since you have to get to the bus stop early to avoid waiting an hour for the next bus. Factor in stopping at the store for food on the way home and it's even more efficient to just drive.

    2. Re:Causes: by Strider- · · Score: 1

      Rails may be more efficient in dollars per person-mile, but they are not more efficient where most people care: total travel time. Why is that? Because rail travel still requires getting to and from the station. Unless you are lucky enough to work and live right next to the stations you need to use for rail travel, you still need some form of transport. It's like the "last mile" problem in Internet terms.

      This is why you do things double-pronged. As you build out the mass transit lines into less developed areas, you change the zoning around the stations to build new, high density mixed use neighbourhoods. Residents take the transit to work and back, but for their day to day needs, the grocery store, restaurants, pubs/bars, cafes, etc... are all immediately accessible on foot.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    3. Re:Causes: by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      As you build out the mass transit lines into less developed areas, you change the zoning around the stations to build new, high density mixed use neighbourhoods.

      Because everybody who moved to the less developed areas did so because they wanted to live in high density mixed-use areas and just didn't know it yet.

      Residents take the transit to work and back,

      Every trip has a beginning and an end. You've explained how you make the beginning look like the big city, but not how you convince them to live in the big city environment they moved away from. But you did not explain how to deal with the destination, where you still have to get from the train station to the place of employment. Do you add a third prong where you force the employers to move into high-density mixed-use facilities next to the train station so their employees could walk from the station to work?

      Why not just skip the middleman? Make it mandatory that employers build high-rise multi-use buildings with employee residences and stores in the building and do away with the trains altogether? It kinds reeks of a company-town kind of living style, and you've got to move if you change jobs, even to the building next door, but it certainly is a great way to live. If you're going to ignore the reason people move to less developed areas, you might as well go all out, no?

    4. Re:Causes: by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      Incorrect. Road widening has been standard policy for decades.

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
  30. For those complaining about US rail by CQDX · · Score: 1

    It was only recently, say around the dotcom boom where people working in SF or Silicon Valley would consider moving to Stockton. Stockton is really far when you consider the terrain, culture, and infrastructure. So there is good rail and passenger lines from Stockton but it mainly design to connect Sacramento-Stockton-San Jose. San Francisco is in the wrong direction plus you have the bay meaning the rail has to go around or through expensive tunnels.

    We have a pretty efficient system called BART but is was mainly designed to circle the bay and not go to the far reaches east and south. Back when it was designed, the east bay (Richmond, Oakland, Hayward) were the affordable boondocks for SF workers. BART is starting to reach east but Stockton is just too far. If Mrs. James wants a better commute but still have some affordability, she should consider renting around Pittsburg Bay Point.

    1. Re:For those complaining about US rail by cunina · · Score: 1

      Plus, BART is becoming extremely unpleasant. It's dirty, smells awful, is overrun with freaks and assholes, and is painfully loud. I live about three miles from a BART station but I avoid it whenever possible.

    2. Re:For those complaining about US rail by CQDX · · Score: 1

      They need more BART cops to police the trains and stations but as the Bay Area views uniformed officers as the enemy that won't happen any time soon. Now they are having problems with flash mobs robbing and assaulting passengers during the day. I refuse to ride BART. But then I also refuse to work in SF or Oakland.

  31. Re:Even screaming children? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    Someone will have to clean up after you when you become unable to care for yourself. Since you aren't willing to have a new generation of your own, someone else's kids will have to take up the slack.

    Someone needs to keep the economy going and run things. It doesn't matter if it's native borns or imports but either needs to be up to the task.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  32. Re:Immigration by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hey, we're currently trying that in Europe!

    Tell me: What do you think will happen when you take in a couple million people with zero marketable skill (because goat herding isn't that big an industry in your country) who don't even start to speak the language or write it (or any language for that matter) who make the Southern Baptists look secular, and throw them into a highly industrialized, practically irreligious and open minded society?

    If you wanna know, take a look at Sweden or Germany. Especially around New Year's Eve.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  33. Re:She thinks the job is worth it by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Something has been left out of the NYT story.

    Did you even read the story? For what she paid for a one-bedroom apartment in Oakland she got a three-bedroom house in Stockton.

    OTOH, I've overhead two vets comparing cities on the bus one day. They loved San Jose. San Francisco and Oakland were comparable in real estate prices and crime rates. Stockton was more like Chicago in terms of murder rates. I personally would prefer Sacramento over Stockton any day.

  34. Re:Boo Fucking Hoo by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    YOU are why people vote for Trump. You are so utterly unhinged and detached from reality that you think that your analogy makes any kind of sense.

    Those of us here that are adults are responsible for our own choices. Stop trying to pretend we're all children.

    It's insulting.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  35. She made a deliberate tradeoff by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 4, Informative

    She chose to move 65 miles further away from San Francisco so she could live in a larger place and save $600 a month in rent (on an income of $81,000, keep in mind). FTFA:

    Ms. James used to live closer, in Alameda, Calif., about 15 miles across San Francisco Bay from her work. But three years ago, after a developer bought her building and evicted Ms. James and her neighbors, she moved to Stockton.

    Stockton has more for the money: Ms. James pays $1,000 a month in rent for her three-bedroom house, compared with $1,600 for the one-bedroom apartment she had in Alameda.

    There are plenty of options a lot closer to San Francisco, for less than what she was paying before, and with more space than she had before. And looking at her old rate of $1600/month (which is still less less than 24% of her income) opens up the possibilities even more.

    So call it what it is: she made a deliberate lifestyle/money/time tradeoff. We all do that sort of thing all the time, and don't get dramatic write-ups in the Times for it.

    1. Re:She made a deliberate tradeoff by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      And most likely discovered that instead of $1600 she would have to pay $2500 or more for a decent 1-bedroom apartment in any place that BART serves, or that is otherwise within a 1-hour commute of SF downtown.

      I'm breaking my typical rule and responding to an AC post because you just made it too easy.

      Using the link I posted above, you can very easily and intuitively end up here, which has one-bedroom apartments for $1400, or TWO-bedroom apartments for $1325-$1900, 58 minutes from her work.

      You clearly didn't even look.

  36. CPS may kidnap your child by tepples · · Score: 1

    *Have* to drop them off? There's no buses

    Not when the school district has had to cut back the bus service due to property tax caps.

    bicycles

    They're not old enough to legally work to buy a bicycle.

    or feet they could use?

    Until child protective services kidnaps your child for being unaccompanied.

    1. Re:CPS may kidnap your child by operagost · · Score: 1

      This is a crisis the schools create on their own. There is a limit the school board determines is safe for kids to walk/ride on their own. Let's call that distance "x". Above a certain distance from the school, buses MUST be provided. Let's call that distance "y". If y!=x, then the school district should be held liable for child endangerment. Cutting bus service and making parents drop off their kids is unacceptable. And I can't rule it out... I'm sure there's some district somewhere right now that's getting away with it because people are lazy and selfish, and you can't expect government to police itself. But anecdotally, 100% of the people I know who "have to" drop off their kids really just "want" to do it because they're afraid.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  37. Well... by Jethro · · Score: 1

    The lady in this story lives 80 miles away from work.

    Even if there was a direct, private road from her driveway to her office and she got to drive at 80MPH the entire time, it'd take her an hour.

    Look, I live less than 20 miles from where I work, and if I took public transportation it'd take me almost as long as it takes her - between 3-4 hours. And I would be *very* limited on when I could leave because buses only run by my house on a very limited schedule. And I live in Minnesota, so there'd be a lot of waiting outside in the Minnesota winter.

    Yeah, public transportation is crap a lot of places (San Francisco NOT being one of them - and she's lucky she hooks up to that one)! and stories like these are hardly news.

    --


    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
  38. Re:$1,600 for the one-bedroom apartment rent contr by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

    Rent control is in general a terrible idea which results in more economic problems rather than less. It destroys most incentives to make new housing. https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/08/economist-explains-19 and http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10802231/Low-rent-Labour-is-positioning-itself-as-the-Ukip-of-the-Left.html are both detailed discussions of the many problems.

  39. Worth it for her I guess by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Ok, I'm imagining... and in my imagination she moves somewhere she doesn't have to commute for so long.

    Want to work and live in CA? Pay the price.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Worth it for her I guess by operagost · · Score: 1

      $81K might just be a poverty wage in the SF metro area.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  40. Have your cake and eat it? by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    $81k is enough to get a small apartment in the Bay Area. If she chooses to commute for 6 hours so she can have a bigger home, good for her that's a fine decision. I bought a 1500 sqft house in San Jose giving me a 20 minute commute. My burden is a massive mortgage and property tax bill.

    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

  41. Re:what an idiot by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

    She's doing what lots do, and that's maximizing her retirement. She has probably lived/worked in the most expensive areas because that's how their retirement is based.

  42. Re:Even screaming children? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    Someone will have to clean up after you when you become unable to care for yourself.

    I'm just about certain that self-removing yourself from the planet will become a new normal for older people. In my great grandparent's generation, a person once the bell tolled would last a few weeks at most. My grandparents took a month or so. My Parents - born in the 1920's, took a long time to die once they got to that point. To the point that the final pecuniary extraction of your wealth can take years. 10 years in my Mother in law's case. A shell who spent those years racking up an amazing amount of bills for a person who didn't even know who she was any more.

    The only exception was my mother, who suffered a massive heart attack while reading on the couch, and was gone in a minute.

    Given the choice, I wonder how many people would decide which death was worse, and which was better. I've made mine.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  43. Re:This doesn't belong on /. by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    Plus, the bit where she sits around and drinks coffee from 2.15 to 3.45. Fascinating indeed.

  44. Re:She thinks the job is worth it by Moof123 · · Score: 2

    Live cheap, retire early. Those with a decent salary could prioritize savings over shiny stuff and be able to retire well before age 65.

    Most US workers don't even save 10%, and instead rack up debt well into their 40's. Living within your means and saving 30-50% of you after tax income lets you retire at that same lifestyle in a 20-25 years.

  45. One more reason to favor current-day cars. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    You're not tied to a bus schedule or bad routing.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  46. Practical limits of school buses by tepples · · Score: 1

    There is a limit the school board determines is safe for kids to walk/ride on their own. Let's call that distance "x". Above a certain distance from the school, buses MUST be provided. Let's call that distance "y".

    Where I live, that's one mile (1.6 km) for elementary school, one and one-half miles (2.4 km) for middle school, or two miles (3.2 km) for high school. But this is as the crow flies. If the one-mile commute is actually two and a half in order to avoid crossing a river, railroad tracks, or a large piece of private property, too bad. And even if it is practical in fair weather, carrying a backpack full of heavy books two miles each way in a thunderstorm, winter storm, or heat advisory is not fun.

    Nor do school districts feel an obligation to provide bus service for students who have a good reason to arrive or depart other than just before and after the bell. If the student has detention, too bad; the bus has already left. And if the student stays late to attend sport practice or to type homework in the school's computer lab due to not having the use of a desktop or laptop computer at home, too bad; the bus has already left. If the student would arrive early to eat breakfast in the school cafeteria or because the honors program offers an extra class period before first period, too bad; the bus does not arrive in time.

  47. Traffic? by Salo2112 · · Score: 1

    At those hours of the morning, how bad could the traffic be? Think I would sleep in an extra hour or two and drive.

  48. the problem here? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    ....isn't the goofball woman that takes nearly 2 hours to get ready in the morning, lives in an odd place, or tolerates a ridiculous commute for a barely-subsistence wage job in the MOST EXPENSIVE place in the US.

    It's that the NYT can cheerfully describe her as " Ms. James is a standard American office worker" and nobody calls them on their complete bullshit.

    --
    -Styopa
  49. What really surprises me ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... is that no one of the super-rich investors in silicon valley seems to be attacking this problem.

    How difficult can it be to build stacks of micro-homes and micro-appartments and instantly make a fat ROI while doing so. Not that much I figure. Why isn't that happening? Modern homes built of refubished oversea-containers aren't that difficult to build and done right have an abundance of comfort.

    Seriously, this is the next big startup idea. Is anybody working on this?

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  50. Re:She thinks the job is worth it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Bet the one bedroom in Oakland appreciates faster. Can she really sleep in two rooms at once? She's burning her time for rooms she likely doesn't use, a higher property tax bill (assuming she sold in Oakland and bought in Stockton) and less equity at retirement.

    She's not going to impress anybody with a Stockton home anyway.

    BTW We don't like FA readers around these parts...

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  51. Re:She thinks the job is worth it by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

    One bedroom apartment rental, not house. A decent one bedroom apartment might be $2,500 per month, which yeah, could get you a decent house in Stockton.

    Same amount of money could also get you an almost-as-decent decent house in Concord or Pittsburgh, though, which are just about the same level of ghetto-ness as Stockton, and an easy BART ride to downtown SF.

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  52. Re:She thinks the job is worth it by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Bet the one bedroom in Oakland appreciates faster.

    Except it was an apartment and a developer tore it down after evicting everyone. The Stockton house might be a rental as well. It wouldn't surprised me if it was. People who rent in the San Francisco Bay Area are usually the same people who can't afford to buy a house.

  53. Re: Immigration by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

    Fuck me Alex Jones gets madder every year

  54. Screw that! by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    I guess that is "normal" for those on the east/west coast. I'm in flyover country, and have a 5 mile to work daily. I get pissed off if it takes more than 20 minutes to get to work, in a city of just over 200,000

  55. Re:And she's one of the lucky ones[sic] by lpq · · Score: 1

    If Everyone does 'X', it will be "horrible"... always dubious start to an argument. But first, about Japan...

    One of the smaller, wealthier, but overcrowded nations in the world is having a problem replacing native Japanese with more natives? They can't afford it because prices are too high because there is too much overcrowding: Japan's population is still *increasing* at a rate greater than the replacement rate. The problem is not a lack of young replacing old, but a lack of native Japanese replacing older Japanese.

    The US has the same "problem", but it isn't spun that way. Instead it's spun as being one of the largest melding pots and its been published as fact how already, and increasingly so, "Euro-descended" people are no longer a majority in most areas (though they are still a plurality in most). Within this century Euro-descended citizens will not even be a plurality in most areas.

    In Japan, as in the US, the 'mix' of national-descents is changing. So little chance of _humans_ dying out in Japan or the US due to "natural causes". Statistically, its usually the smarter people who put off having children because they want to focus and ensure quality of life for their children.

    You used a poor example for your "if everyone does 'X', some horrible thing will happen" line. On top of the poor example, the premise fails because no group of people ever act with the uniformity demanded by premise.

    It's never the case, in the macrocosm, that "EVERYONE" agrees on something and ALL choose the same action, so using that as an argument supporting anything is meaningless. Just because it is true that almost all space is filled with 'nothing' (or almost all space is filled with vacuum), doesn't mean one has to be afraid of or worry about the concept being taken to the extreme.

  56. Re:Immigration by Sassinak · · Score: 1

    Actually most if not all the people coming in to Europe HAVE skills and WANT to work.. but entry into the country does not include an automatic admission to the job pool.. So most are barred from working because of OTHER regulations.. so the people coming in are trapped in a "yes you can come in a look, but no touch!". that is the issue. So if they have no way to improve (learning a language takes either time or money, and most often both) then add on top of that, a lot of xenophobic attitudes (like you are espousing).. and its a recipe for pain.

    --
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  57. It's got nothing to do with Zoning by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    or the big bad bureaucrat (which is part of the sub-text to your post, whether you realize it or not).

    The reason new housing isn't getting built is we stopped building infrastructure. e.g. new roads, water and gas lines, etc. The government built all that (they also graded and prepped the land for it). The government used to do all the really expensive work involved with getting land ready for homes. It was basically a massive subsidy to home builders.

    Starting in the 80s we wanted to cut taxes (especially on top earners) and that meant cutting services. Infrastructure suffered because it was one of the biggest expenditures we had. It took a while for things to catch up (the gov't had prepped a _lot_ of land already) but, well, here we are.

    Like most things enjoyed by the working class you can thank government for affordable, comfortable housing.

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  58. Right... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    So she wakes up at 2:15am because it takes her nearly two hours to get ready?

  59. Re:...Film at 11:00 by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Not that woman! If she gets up at 11:00PM she's about three hours too early!

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    #DeleteFacebook
  60. easy solution by doctorvo · · Score: 1

    makes $81,000 a year as a public health adviser for the United States Department of Health and Human Services in San Francisco

    Move the HHS offices out of high priced San Francisco to, say, Stockton. But that's not going to happen because HHS, of course, doesn't serve the public, it serves the interests of the high level government employees that run it.

    Also: this is a 3h commute for 80 miles, or an average of about 25mph: welcome to the world of public transit. The more cities try to push us into public transit, the more we all can look forward to these kinds of commutes.

  61. Short version by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

    Short version of the summary: San Francisco is expensive, so some people who work there live far away and have long commutes. Boo-hoo.

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  62. symptoms by supernova87a · · Score: 1

    You read the article about how she takes an hour before she makes her coffee at 3:16am, how she doesn't rush to catch the next bus on her 3 segment journey, and see her leisurely walking out of the BART station, and is it any wonder that she works for the government?

    I'm guessing she isn't exactly super quick and efficient at her job functions either....

    At some point, you would think an employer might have the latitude to make a judgement call about an employee who's exhausted at work all the time from having to commute 6 hours per day.

  63. Why again is this on slashdot? by bongey · · Score: 1

    How is this news for nerds? How is this Tech related? This is just some pity me story.

  64. 3 1/2 hours by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    Mapquest says it takes 52 minutes to drive from Stockton to the Pleasanton BART station. I have no doubt it would be longer at peak times

    I would have thought that it would be possible to carpool that journey and then take BART shaving hours off each day.

    I'm sure the train journey is more relaxing (I like train travel too) but it's not like there are no other reasonable faster options so the 2:15 wakeup is pretty much out of choice, fair play to her if she likes it, not my thing

    --
    Nullius in verba
  65. The main problem is shitty public transportation by blind+biker · · Score: 1

    In Northern Europe we have decent public transportation. Decent enough that most people don't use their cars for commuting. And a lot of families don't have cars at all. But almost everybody has bicycles.

    With a combination of excellent bikepaths and public transportation, commute takes from minutes to an hour in the worst case.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  66. Buy a car! by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

    At 81k a year, and not living in the city she should be able to get a cheap car.

  67. Re:Immigration by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    So one of the few hundred assaults was made up? That changes everything!

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    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  68. Re:Immigration by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Odd. They seem to have moved elsewhere. All I get to see around here are unemployable bums who can barely communicate in their own language. Care to point to them? I'd like to find a few of those.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  69. Re:Immigration by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Enjoy that multicultural bullshit for a while and then talk. We're at the point where the immigrants that have immigrated earlier and have been naturalized are now voting for the xenophobic-racist parties, if that gives you any ideas just how fucked up the situation is.

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    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  70. That's nice by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    WTF does this have to do with us? News for Nerds? What next, a story about cats or puppies?