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CIA Captured Putin's 'Specific Instructions' To Hack the 2016 Election, Says Report (thedailybeast.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Daily Beast: When Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., CIA Director John Brennan and FBI Director James B. Comey all went to see Donald Trump together during the presidential transition, they told him conclusively that they had "captured Putin's specific instructions on the operation" to hack the 2016 presidential election, according to a report in The Washington Post. The intel bosses were worried that he would explode but Trump remained calm during the carefully choreographed meeting. "He was affable, courteous, complimentary," Clapper told the Post. Comey stayed behind afterward to tell the president-elect about the controversial Steele dossier, however, and that private meeting may have been responsible for the animosity that would eventually lead to Trump firing the director of the FBI.

535 comments

  1. Intredasting by TimothyHollins · · Score: 4, Funny

    When you require careful and concerted choreography to explain simple concepts to your president, there might be a problem.

    1. Re:Intredasting by Baron_Yam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >When you require careful and concerted choreography to explain simple concepts to your president

      If you want Trump to believe something, it's best to get Fox News to do a short and aggressive segment on it in which they flatter Trump a lot. Maybe include a short phrase that looks good with a hash tag.

    2. Re:Intredasting by houghi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Too much work. Just say that Obama wanted the opposite.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Intredasting by jenningsthecat · · Score: 2

      Maybe include a short phrase that looks good with a hash tag.

      You mean something like "Covfefe"?

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    4. Re:Intredasting by Baron_Yam · · Score: 0, Troll

      >Just say that Obama wanted the opposite.

      You know, people say Obama was a great president (well... probably not a lot of Republicans), but I think Obama's ultimate legacy will be that on his way out he goaded Trump into running for president so he could destroy everything Obama did.

      I also think history may just decide that enough Americans weren't ready for a black man in the Oval Office that it provided support for an unfit racist white guy to move into it next.

    5. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Racist. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    6. Re:Intredasting by Merk42 · · Score: 1, Troll

      When you require careful and concerted choreography to explain simple concepts to your president, there might be a problem.

      Such as "ISIS can be defeated"?

      You know, that simple concept that Obama couldn't grasp but that Trump actually ACCOMPLISHED?

      Trump defeated ISIS?
      There was literally an attack, done in the name of ISIS, 3 days ago

    7. Re: Intredasting by Bartles · · Score: 1

      The caliphate has more or less been destroyed.

    8. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And if a Nazi stabs someone in the street it means WWII Germans weren't defeated either.

    9. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Itâ(TM)s the Washington Post, how can we take this Bezos funded report seriously ?

    10. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Trump is Obamaâ(TM)s true legacy.

    11. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The caliphate has more or less been destroyed.

      Bullshit.

    12. Re: Intredasting by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      Great, so like with Bush and Iraq we have "mission accomplished" already. I wonder how long until the Trotards will declare "mission re-accomplished "?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    13. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So, it had nothing to do with his policies, how he enacted those polices, his attitude toward the opposition, his repeated mishaps (Fast and Furious as example), his moneyed ties to Wallstreet, his repeated power grabs at various government agencies, his cozy relationship with MSM, his continuation of Bush policy, or his lackluster foreign policy. No, it comes down to muh racism. Even when he was first elected 'muh racism and muh racists' was trotted out. I distinctly remember on CNN the day after in 2008 "We found out last night that there were not enough racists to beat president-elect Obama.". Because only a racist would oppose the perfect 2nd Coming of Christ Obama, amirite? ...

      In reality, he was just a crappy president. His agenda being undone by the "pen and phone" is the bed he made. The only legacy he will have is the ACA and the cost he placed on poor people forcing them to buy an expensive service. Congrats to him that his presidency still needs white knight protection from muh racists.

    14. Re:Intredasting by NoobyNoobyDoo · · Score: 1

      Or...

      Anytime you're wanting to deliver very important news to your boss and you want to be sure that important news is delivered well and understood, especially if the boss is new, you do things very deliberately.

      Which is something done by anyone that wants a presentation to the boss to actually be successful and not go off on tangents. Its amazingly easy for presentations to get off track, it takes a lot of planning beforehand to be sure you can deliver the message you want. Its hard enough when you know the boss is a hard ass, its even harder when its a new boss that you really dont know.

    15. Re:Intredasting by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "If you want Trump to believe something, it's best to get Fox News to do a short and aggressive segment on it in which they flatter Trump a lot."

      Naw, just do it like John Oliver does it, paying for a commercial with a self-lubricating-catheder-cowboy actor explaining things to the 'fucking moron' on Faux-News.

    16. Re:Intredasting by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 0, Troll

      You know, people say Obama was a great president (well... probably not a lot of Republicans), but I think Obama's ultimate legacy will be that on his way out he goaded Trump into running for president so he could destroy everything Obama did.I also think history may just decide that enough Americans weren't ready for a black man in the Oval Office that it provided support for an unfit racist white guy to move into it next.

      The Liberal types who treated any criticism of Obama as proof of racism will probably follow your thinking. Obama was inept, useless, and a complete stooge in the Mideast. Much like his predecessor. However as the first "black president" he will get undeserved accolades and protection rather than an honest look. Indeed, his presidency started off with a completely undeserved Nobel Peace prize.

    17. Re: Intredasting by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Putin did that, not Trump.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    18. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of it is hes a compulsive liar. Happy now, easily provable!

    19. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why I like to call him "President Chocolate Jesus". In truth, I borrowed the term from Bill Maher but it's apropos. Remember the jubilation when he won the election? People were openly weeping in the streets. They just couldn't believe that this perfect, messianic figure could be disliked for any reason other than the color of his skin. They couldn't wrap their minds around the possibility that it could be about anything else. It was inconceivable to them that anyone could possibly have a policy based difference of opinion with him.

      And there are some people who just can't comprehend that there are people with principles that they will not violate.

      I lost all of the respect that I had for Obama when during the first series of debates, they asked him when life begins. His answer was that it was above his pay grade. Really asshole?

      And then we had 8 years of him saying the equivalent of "Nobody wants to take your guns." but then saying that we should consider a bunch approaches, like other countries did that was used to take away those people's guns.

      It wasn't because he's black. I'm black. It was because he was a vacuous asshole and someone that I couldn't trust.

      To be fair, some people did hate him because he's black. Some people did believe all kinds of crazy and stupid things, like the birthers and the secret muslim believers but they were the fringe. Most people who didn't like him, didn't like him because of how he behaved in office.

    20. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean that thing Trump is? Yes I understand it very well, being on the receiving end

    21. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Racist fuck isn't a race, son. Sides, even though you don't like the "help" being all up in your country club, even you are welcome at Mar-a-lago.

      See, unlike yourself, Trump isn't a KKK fuckhead.

    22. Re:Intredasting by KHKw2k · · Score: 3, Informative

      Only if by "Trump" you mean "a russian backed coalition of Syrian Government Forces, International Mercenaries, and Hezbollah Terrorists with little to no US involvement".

    23. Re:Intredasting by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

      Have there ever gotten any feedback on that? i.e. Anyone happen to know if Trump watched those commercials and responded?

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    24. Re: Intredasting by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe it helped that the new administration didn't introduce the "no fly zone" over Syria that Clinton had wanted to put in place.

    25. Re:Intredasting by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let's take this tripe one by one.

      it had nothing to do with his policies

      This one is true. Obama told everyone what he wanted to accomplish which then allowed Republicans to state unequivocally their top priority, make him a one-term president. And thus they became the party of No, obstructing everything, even if the people wanted it.

      how he enacted those polices

      Not sure what you mean by this one. Oh wait. You mean those executive orders and signing statements, don't you? The same ones George Bush and every single president has done since George Washington. Yeah, I can see how that would be an issue. After all, if you do the exact same thing as your predecessor, only you are in the wrong. Not the guy who came after you and does the exact same thing.

      his attitude toward the opposition

      You mean like reaching out and trying to find common ground? How horrible!

      his repeated mishaps (Fast and Furious as example)

      You claim multiple mishaps yet cite only one. I'm guessing those 3,000 dead that happened when George Bush ignored months of daily warnings of an impending attack doesn't come close this one issue, right? Nor the financial collapse which was the worst in 80 years. Nor the invasion of Iraq which cost us over 4,000 soldiers and over $4 trillion in costs. How about handing over $700 billion of taxpayer money to Wall Street and banks so they could pay out their bonuses? Forcing phone companies to install illegal wiretaps? Does any of this ring a bell?

      his moneyed ties to Wallstreet

      You mean unlike the current administration who as as his Treasury chief a person who came from Goldman Sachs, right? Or that he had, until recently, Carl Icahn who is lousy with connections to Wall Street. Here's a list of the Goldman Sachs employees the con artist has in his administration. This is only Goldman Sachs employees. This doesn't include all the other firms people have come from.

      This article talks about how the con artist doesn't want to enforce rules against Wall Street and the banks. Instead, he wants them to "self report" whenever they commit a crime. This of course is in no way a sign the con artist has moneyed ties to Wall Street or is doing their bidding. None whatsoever.

      his repeated power grabs at various government agencies

      Like signing statements above, the same as previous administrations. Were you whining when Bush did this? How about Reagan?

      his cozy relationship with MSM

      Non sequitor. MSM is a nonsense name, a fake name if you will, made up by those trying to claim the high ground because they have nothing to offer. If you think Breitbart and the Fox tabloid are somehow better news sources than the New York Times, BBC or CNN, it's quite clear facts don't enter into your daily life.

      his continuation of Bush policy

      Isn't this a good thing? Everyone knows how great things were under Bush what with the financial markets collapsing, the worst recession in 80 years, 14 million people losing their jobs, millions losing their homes. This doesn't even take into account the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history which occurred on Bush's watch. Make up your mind. You criticize Obama for doing his own thing, and you criticize him for doing the exact same thing Bush did. You can't have it both ways.

      his lackluster foreign policy

      This is the only legitimate issue and is a continuation of your first comment. Obama was lackluster when it came

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    26. Re:Intredasting by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      And yet the evidence has NEVER been presented to the public And this is the first we are hearing of it....

    27. Re: Intredasting by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      ... JV Team ...

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    28. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another example of ignorant partisan hackery.

      The "Mission Accomplished" banner was put up for the sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, who had been deployed. They were celebrating being returned to the States at the end of their mission.

      Bush himself never said "mission accomplished". In fact, he specifically said that the mission is NOT over, and that there was much work remaining to be done in Iraq.

      FFS, even Wikipedia has an article that explains all this. It isn't as if it's hard to learn about or understand.

    29. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 Too True

    30. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, there's an institutional memory at the CIA about how to do that, from the 8 years of George W. Bush.

    31. Re:Intredasting by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Thank you. For a long time now, it's been duck-and-cover for white people that weren't happy with the policies coming from the Obama white house, that didn't want to be unfairly labeled as racist just because they had critical opinions that had nothing to do with race. Never mind that there were things that administration did that they did agree with and actually liked - if you weren't 100% on board, racist!

      Just like during the early 2000s, it was "go-along-or-you-hate-America" and "agree-or-we-label-you-as-someone-who-doesn't-support-the-troops"; it became "always-agree-with-the-president-or-you're-racist". Unfortunately, that pendulum seems to be going the opposite direction and it's becoming "always-disagree-with-the-president-or-you're-racist."

      There has been a toxic discourse brewing in this country since the Clinton impeachment (and possibly before, stretching to pre-Watergate), neither major party is immune from it, and apparently more and more people are sycophantic enough to fall into the same vitriolic rhetoric. Nothing gets fixed until that is recognized, and people learn to stay above the ad hominem.

      It's been a bleak year for actual policy discussion, and there's no light on the horizon showing it's going to get any better any time soon, I'm afraid.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    32. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm... he was our first half black President, to be accurate.

    33. Re: Intredasting by Dorianny · · Score: 0

      Helped against one evil (ISIS), allowed another to flourish (Al Assad's regime). Hard to tell if we won or if we lost. One thing we know for sure, during the latest rounds of the Syrian peace talks the U.S was not even invited to the table

    34. Re:Intredasting by MachineShedFred · · Score: 3

      Shockingly, "he is an asshole" actually is a valid point for not liking someone. And it's also a majority opinion that Donald J. Trump is, indeed, a huge asshole.

      You are correct that "he is an asshole" probably isn't valid criteria for quantifying job performance as President, unless he's actively an asshole to other heads of state during diplomatic events and such. Someone can still be a complete asshole and be an effective President - see: Lyndon B. Johnson or Richard M. Nixon. Both huge, gaping, assholes. But both also passed landmark legislation that has made this country a better place since (Civil Rights Act, Clean Water Act being two examples) and both had major foreign policy victories that have helped to shape the world we live in (for better or worse).

      The history books will have the final say on Trump, regardless of what people are saying today (good or bad).

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    35. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it hasn't. In fact they're recruiting harder than ever after Trump officially recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Their numbers grow daily now.

    36. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it just means Nazis as a whole were not defeated.

      The specific ones of the 1940s, led by Adolph Hitler, in WWII, were defeated. However, no such specification was given in Trump's "obliterating ISIS" speeches.

    37. Re: Intredasting by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      After the US under Bush and others help to stir up the forces which became ISIS through the invasion of Iraq and the incompetent and deadly aftermath, Bush minor and then Obama (with help from Iran) managed to calm Iraq down enough for them to mainly fight ISIS and other extremists rather than each other. The Obama administration, albeit under pressure from Manning's leaks and the press, tried to minimize civilian casualties and be the good guys in reality *.

      Putin concentrates more on Assad's enemies than on ISIS (Assad like most tyrants has many enemies, not all of them Muslim or extremist) and will kill civilians without mercy if it furthers their objectives.

      * exclusions may apply

    38. Re:Intredasting by shanen · · Score: 1

      Boy, you really hit the trolls' nerves with that one. Almost makes me wish I had the time and energy to cultivate the sock puppets with mod points to help you back into higher visibility.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    39. Re: Intredasting by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Oh geez, a male politician who didn't have an opinion strong enough and that implying it's up to the Supreme Court is probably a good political response. There is no good answer to Americans. Really, what fucking guns were taken away from you? I remember pretty fucking clearly him saying that new laws are needed to prevent really bad people from buying guns, reiterating multiple times no one will have their existing guns taken away. I get blown away all the time at how Americans choose to view what did or didn't happen wrt Obama.

    40. Re: Intredasting by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Are you mental? I keep hearing people on /. complain about lack of Russian proof in election meddling. I don't think audio and video would convince these people otherwise.

    41. Re: Intredasting by Bartles · · Score: 1

      What the hell kind of warped version of history is that?

    42. Re: Intredasting by koomba · · Score: 1

      Birthers were fringe? Sorry, but that's simply wrong. All kinds of birther conspiracy theorists were given air time on Fox News, the largest cable news network, as they like to frequently remind us. I would hardly call that fringe.

    43. Re: Intredasting by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Which half? He looks the same colour all over.

    44. Re: Intredasting by tbannist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it was literally GWB's policies that helped to create ISIS. The invasion of Iraq set the stage for the rise of ISIS and the Bush policies on torture allowed their future leader to be imprisoned by American troops, tortured and then released. That experience pushed him towards a path to religious fanaticism and mass murder. So if you want to blame an American president for ISIS, the facts say Bush would get the blame.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    45. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. They fired all the military that was not of their sect creating an instant terrorist army. One of the stupider moves.

    46. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You literally just called them conspiracy theorists. Isn't that the definition of fringe ?

    47. Re: Intredasting by Freischutz · · Score: 0

      Putin did that, not Trump.

      Let's not give the Tzar of Russia any more credit than he deserves, he propped up the Assad regime but that was about all he did. It was Iranian, American and even European backed forces that did just as much if not more to destroy ISIS in Iraq and the same goes for large parts of Syria. It was US/German/French training and delivery of Milan missiles along with US and Iranian small arms and ammo deliveries that stopped ISIS from overrunning the entire north of Iraq while the Iraqi national army that Nouri al-Maliki purged of any soldiers who knew what they were doing was still trying to figure out which end of their rifles was the one the bullets come out of, and lets not forget the importance of US/NATO and even Iranian air support either. Giving the Russians sole credit for destroying ISIS is a joke.

    48. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bush may have have been responsible responsible for ISIS rise in iraq, but Obama created the Libyan mess where ISIS trains, and Obama provided weapons to ISIS

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-airdrops-50-tonnes-of-weapons-to-new-syrian-rebel-coalition-a6692126.html

    49. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you require careful choreography because you're trying to suspend disbelief because, you know, you're peddling bullshit spun from whole cloth.

    50. Re: Intredasting by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Bush may have have been responsible responsible for ISIS rise in iraq, but Obama created the Libyan mess where ISIS trains

      Obama didn't create the Libyan mess, Libyans did. The United Nations voted to intervene and NATO forces enforced a no-fly zone to prevent Libyan fighter jets from dropping bombs on Libyan civilians.

      and Obama provided weapons to ISIS

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-airdrops-50-tonnes-of-weapons-to-new-syrian-rebel-coalition-a6692126.html

      Those guys aren't ISIS, they're one of the many groups fighting ISIS. Did you even bother to read the link you cited?

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    51. Re: Intredasting by kenh · · Score: 1

      his attitude toward the opposition

      You mean like reaching out and trying to find common ground? How horrible!

      Like when he had to be shamed into meeting with republicans to discuss healthcare? Or when, at the end of the POTUS/GOP healthcare summit in 2009 he dismisses every republican suggestion by saying 'if you want to implement your ideas, try winning some elections'?

      Then the Republicans did just that, taking and holding the Congress since 2010, then taking and keeping the Senate in 2014, and then the whitehouse in 2016...

      --
      Ken
    52. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the special version of reality promoted by the Russians and their allies, anyone opposing Assad is ISIS.

    53. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Killall has been watching too much RT.

    54. Re: Intredasting by mcswell · · Score: 1

      Putin is in Iraq?

    55. Re: Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After the numerous fuck ups that WaPo has engaged in against trump, you get this bit of horseshit clickbait and start questioning the intelligence of the president? Iâ(TM)ll tell you what, you make as much money as he did and then get back to me that heâ(TM)s an idiot.

      You fucking people are so predictable with your irrational characterizations with little to no basis in facts. The cry-hards, try hard.

    56. Re:Intredasting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why was this modded Troll?? It's not some Anti-Trump thing. It doesn't matter who wants to take credit for "defeating ISIS", the fact of the matter is, they haven't been defeated.

  2. horse-shoe by TimothyHollins · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If your boss explodes when reality does not conform to his wishes, he just might be a snowflake.

    1. Re:horse-shoe by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

      Snowflakes melt. The condition for their continued survival isn't consistent with the reality of the world they live in.

      Melting can be seen as a loss of relevance. We can limit that consequence to the man by moving on, or we can suffer that consequence as a nation by doubling down. Either way, reality asserts itself.

  3. *shocked gasp* by Lisandro · · Score: 2

    The real surprise would be if they didn't find any evidence of this.

    1. Re:*shocked gasp* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CIA and FBI always find evidence even when there is none. They are also aware of everything before it happens and will let you know after it happens of how aware they were the whole time.

    2. Re: *shocked gasp* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Damn I just realized if you replace "CIA/FBI" with "my wife" it all still rings true.

    3. Re:*shocked gasp* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit report

    4. Re:*shocked gasp* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clapper, Comey, and Brennan. A more dishonest trio would be tough to find.

  4. "hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Were those Putin's exact words or the MSM ubiquitous translation?

    1. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Probably not from Putin either. Someone at some level in the Kremlin said "FUCK HILLARY" once, and that equates to "hack the election and put Trump in."

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    2. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by fodder69 · · Score: 1

      Were those Putin's exact words or the MSM ubiquitous translation?

      LOl, I pretty much disregard anyone that uses the phrase MSM, cause you just know they will follow up with SQJQ and a rant about how feminists are why white men are the most persecuted minority in America.

    3. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone at some level in the Kremlin said "FUCK HILLARY"

      Once upon a time, our country had REAL MEN that said "I pass"... like Bill Clinton.

    4. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Were those Putin's exact words or the MSM ubiquitous translation?

      Read the linked story.. They don't quote any conversation in Russian or English. All they say is somebody heard something, they reported this to Trump who apparently didn't react as they expected.

      How's this noteworthy? It's not even hearsay as far as the rules of evidence goes. It's somebody claiming that somebody reported the contents of a conversation heard by somebody else.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    5. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Were those Putin's exact words or the MSM ubiquitous translation?

      They are still writing them. Notes were taken on the back of the original draft of the piss dossier, so they need to mis-translate it into russian and put it on "Pooty-Poot Real Prez of the Russia Russia Russia" letterhead.

    6. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      It's noteworthy because it's anti-Trump.

      Being in any way relevant, factually correct and so on is utterly irrelevant in this aspect. All that matters is that it's yet another piece that temporarily reinforces the caricature that certain portion of the population has built in their minds about Trump, and that needs constant reinforcement as reality keeps fracturing this caricature.

    7. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone at some level in the Kremlin said "FUCK HILLARY"

      Could it be from a perspective of her in seductive lingerie? And not in a political sense?

    8. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by tsqr · · Score: 1

      Were those Putin's exact words or the MSM ubiquitous translation?

      LOl, I pretty much disregard anyone that uses the phrase MSM, cause you just know they will follow up with SQJQ and a rant about how feminists are why white men are the most persecuted minority in America.

      What's the problem with the term, "mainstream media"? The term usually used by the folks you don't like is, "lamestream media".

    9. Re:"hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's pretty obvious by now that you will not accept any evidence.

      You have to show some first! In the courtroom, where it can be cross examined. You people just can't acknowledge your own failures. You have to blame everybody else for them.

      And of course this little truth will be modded down by the same crybabies.

    10. Re: "hack the 2016 presidential election,"? by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      In movies, there's always that editor that tells the journalist they need more proof before running a hardcore big story. I think they all got laid off.

  5. Another round of nothing by Baron_Yam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you show the average person evidence that someone is doing something bad, they might ask questions about the reliability of the evidence.

    If his own spy agency shows Trump evidence that Russia is doing something bad, he denounces them and has an off-the-record chat with Putin.

    I wouldn't trust a spy agency as a general rule - their whole existence is about getting what they want by deception - but I'd hardly trust the Russians when it comes to a domestic agency's claims against them.

    This immediately leads to questions about why a president might trust a foreign power over his own agencies. And more questions when there are records of his team attempting to work with that same power to scuttle an opponent's election bid, that have been consistently lied about in an obvious cover-up.

    But this is Trump, so this will amount to another round of Twitter outrage and blow over.

    1. Re:Another round of nothing by Baron_Yam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >Such an obvious cover up that no evidence has been found.

      Just lie after lie uncovered about meeting with Russians. Just that.

      But if you repeat your lie - "no evidence has been found" often enough, something like 30-50% of the USA will either believe it or pretend to believe it in order to keep your team in power.

      Party over country, all the way down!

    2. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      No no... there's no evidence at all - but if you keep repeating the lie that there must be something there and you keep looking because of the seriousness of the accusations then something like 30-50% of the USA will either believe it or pretend to believe it in order to return your team to power.

      Party over country comrade... party over country.

    3. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > This immediately leads to questions about why a president might trust a foreign power over his own agencies.

      IMHO the more obvious question this leads to is how much of all of this is more made-up bullshit like pretty much everything in the whole Trump-Russia saga.

    4. Re:Another round of nothing by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >No no... there's no evidence at all

      There you go, you're getting it! Keep repeating your lies!

      That stuff that was in the news? The changing stories from those involved as their lies were exposed? FAKE NEWS!!!

      Posting as AC, though... weak. You lack the courage of your convictions.

    5. Re:Another round of nothing by ReeceTarbert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This immediately leads to questions about why a president might trust a foreign power over his own agencies.

      No, the real question and, as far as I know a question that no one is asking, is: if the elections have really been hacked, why not void them and have a do over?

      Of course that's a rhetorical question, since putting the blame one someone else is easier than admit that enough people voted for the man, so you now have to deal with it. Trouble is, so does the rest of the world.

      RT.

    6. Re:Another round of nothing by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      "doing something bad?" You would have more predictable results by enlarging your frame of reference. Consider, "One person's Terrorist is another's Freedom Fighter."

    7. Re: Another round of nothing by guruevi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Itâ(TM)s not about trust but about keeping the peace and politics. Trump may or may not personally believe what the NSA and CIA told him (which has its own agenda) but to accuse or retaliate on Russia could start another Cold War.

      In the end, Russia used propaganda to influence an election just like the US does in Russia. They didnâ(TM)t hack it, they didnâ(TM)t make people vote or stop voting at gun point, they got some advertising on a Facebook - voters influenced by that are morons and are spread out evenly across the population so itâ(TM)s unlikely to have had a great effect other than being demoralizing.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    8. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good work comrade - repeat the lies, deflect the provided facts and then make personal attacks on the poster to discredit his opinion!

      But don't actually talk about the facts at hand because that's not a winning strategy to return the Democrats to power.

      If I created a sockpuppet account would that make me more convicted than you?

    9. Re:Another round of nothing by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 1

      Most likely doesn't want to Prove that AC is really a Russian troll.

    10. Re:Another round of nothing by nine-times · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Just lie after lie uncovered about meeting with Russians. Just that.

      Well, there are the lies about all the various meetings that people had with Russians. And then there's the fact that many of them improper and some arguably illegal. Donald Trump Jr. met with a representative of the Russian government to discuss the Russians helping with the election in exchange for dropping Russian sanctions. The Russians did help the Trump campaign, and then Flynn promised the Russians that they would drop sanctions. Trump went on TV and asked the Russians to release Clinton's emails if they had it. Trump's campaign manager was laundering money that Putin's friends had paid him.

      There's tons of evidence of various shapes and sizes. We now have a couple of criminal convictions, even. There's just no direct evidence that Trump was aware of a particular crime being committed by his campaign. But... that's the evidence available to the public. We know crimes were committed and the Trump campaign solicited aid from the Russian government just with the evidence that has become public. We don't know what evidence Mueller has.

    11. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brought to you by the same organization the murdered JFK and Robert Kennedy. But liberals don't care, so long as they can use them against their enemies.

      The CIA must be disbanded.

    12. Re:Another round of nothing by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if the elections have really been hacked, why not void them and have a do over?

      Because "elections have been hacked" can mean anything including:

      1. Polling machines programmatically hacked (which nobody, so far as I can tell, is alleging.)
      2. Infrastructure around polling, such as voter registrations, and tools to make available voter IDs, being hacked to suppress turnout (there were rumors the Russians might have at one point been considering doing this, but nobody has alleged they actually have done this.)
      3. The pollution of information sources to ensure voters are given believable false information

      Thus far, the allegations concerning the Russians have focused on (3). There's pretty much no constitutional basis for overturning an election on the basis that voters were mislead. Voters are mislead all the time, it's just usually the lies come from fellow Americans, and to some extent there's some balance. On top of that, if the election were reheld today, how many people would go to the polls saying "Well, I've since learned that Clinton was actually the victim of a 25 year long smear campaign and it's highly improbable that 90% of the bad things I've heard about her actually have any basis in reality. I was duped, and will change my vote"?

      Any? Nobody willingly admits they were duped over something that basic.

      At this point, the only mechanism we have for "correcting" the mistake is to elect an opposition party to power in Congress in 2018. If we consider Trump continuing to be President dangerous (and I do), we also have to hope that party also recognizes that Trump has already broken the law and should be impeached. But that's the extent of it. You can't request a do-over because voters were lied to and manipulated, that'd invalidate almost every Presidential election we've ever had. The fact it's a foreign government that did so means we need to address our relations with that government, not invalidate our own elections.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    13. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want to know how I know you have no leg to stand on? You keep screaming about evidence, but you fail to post a single citation and then attack based on that someone posted as AC. If you have to dismiss somebody simply because they post AC, you have no argument. It's just as bad as dismissing an argument based on grammar. They're strawmen used to prop up pathetic arguments. But really, if there's evidence, provide it. Not "an anonymous source close to the situation" or anything like that. Actual real tangible evidence that would be suitable for submitting to a court of law.

    14. Re:Another round of nothing by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      if the elections have really been hacked, why not void them and have a do over?

      And what organization would be the arbiter? CIA can't call new elections. Congress can impeach, but that is a political decision, not a technical one. Any other?

      Your question was indeed rhetorical, but not for the reason you named.

    15. Re: Another round of nothing by Tranzistors · · Score: 0, Troll

      just like the US does in Russia

      Link? Preferably reputable sources.

    16. Re:Another round of nothing by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      >Most likely doesn't want to Prove that AC is really a Russian troll.

      Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'd like to believe the Russians are recoiling in horror at how effective their efforts have been.

      They might be in competition with the USA and gain a little at their expense, but too much disruption is bad for everyone's business. On the other hand... the full potential of an American return to isolationism is nowhere near being realized, so maybe the Russians are pleased with the results.

      My grandkids may one day be able to read a reasonable analysis of it all, I doubt those of us living through it will ever have a comprehensive objective grasp on it.

    17. Re:Another round of nothing by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1, Interesting

      We now have a couple of criminal convictions, even.

      That would be news to those of us who have been following this very closely. Please provide a citation.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    18. Re: Another round of nothing by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1, Funny

      If you look at my post history, you'll find I'm decidedly on the Anti-Trump bandwagon. (As a non-American, not living in the USA, I feel somewhat impartial and think my opinion that Trump is a dangerous, divisive and disruptive idiot is my opinion because it's the truth, not because I'm partisan)

      So, with that huge disclaimer that's probably lost you by now... I would find it more difficult to believe the USA never attempts to affect Russian politics than to believe it was making such attempts.

      I'd actually want proof they WEREN'T interfering. Which is, of course, impossible. At best you could show they're not doing anything overt.

      The USA meddles everywhere (even when they don't do it deliberately) simply because they are the biggest single political, economic, cultural, and military force in the world. And just to be clear, I'd say it's credible that they deliberately interfere in Russian politics.

    19. Re:Another round of nothing by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Even if people don't admit that they were duped, just knowing that will make them more careful next time. And that's the point of it - to understand what happened and come up with ways to stop it happening again.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re: Another round of nothing by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Consider, "One person's Terrorist is another's Freedom Fighter."

      I always found that phrase so vapid. One persons cult figure is another persons great leader. The fact that people are often delusional or mislead doesn't mean there aren't objective standards, or that words don't actually have real meaning.

    21. Re:Another round of nothing by e3m4n · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      no evidence has been found regarding meeting with the Russians before elected. The task is to find evidence of collusion _in order to alter the election_. Having someone plead guilty to lying about meeting with Russian a couple days before new years is NOT the same thing as meeting with them prior to November. I think the problem is so many people wanted to impeach the guy, the day after the election no less, that this crap is being viewed through a distorted lens. Had someone suggested impeaching Obama after being caught on a hot microphone saying he would have more power to work with russia after his election, the very same people would be making the exact same counter claims. Of all the things that the opposition could target, this whole russia thing has to be the worst strategy of all time.

      either A) everyone knows that nothing illegal has transpired regardless of any evidence that has or will have been discovered; so this is more of a 'keep the lime light on him to rally the troops and win a future election'

      or B) everyone is so blind with rage that they are literally crying wolf so often that eventually something real and substantial is going to come out and everyone is going to be to turned off that only about 30% of the population will believe it, because they already wanted to believe it even before it existed.

      the bottom line is that even IF trump had literally sat in the same room as Putin back in August and had a powwow about what the FSB could do in order to assist in Trumps campaign - that still isn't anything actually prohibited. He literally could have stood up and said "I talked to Putin... so what? what are you going to do about it? Tell me not to do it anymore?"

      Lets not forget that what HAS been discovered is that HRC's campaign team DID pay $500k to a lawfirm who then engaged Fusion GPS, who then engaged with the Russians, to provide a potentially fake Dossier for the EXPRESSED PURPOSE of ALTERING THE 2016 ELECTION. So if you think uncovering any sort of Russian communication is going to be enough to sink his presidency then you also have to concede that HRC will also be tried and convicted of AT LEAST the same crime, possibly worse if it turns out to be fabricated as well, that amounts to planting false evidence. You also must concede that HRC, had she won, would have been legitimately impeached for COLLUSION as well. You cannot uses the same argument to convict one guy but insist the other candidate is unimpeachable when, currently, there is more evidence stacked against her than what concrete evidence has amassed against him. Lying to the FBI is only evidence of a lie. Without the actual evidence, you only have evidence about a coverup of some unknown thing.

      It is my Opinion that this whole Russia thing is about as much of a NON-Starter as the whole Birther movement. That was a constant distraction, intentionally so. Who cares if he was born in Kenya? McCain was born in Panama. Obummer's mom was a US Citizen which automatically makes him a US Citizen regardless of where he was born. Everyone knows this. The idea some foreign birth certificate could have unseated him was a stupid daydream of people that wanted to hate him for the sake of hating him. Ironically he did enough stupid shit nobody had to invent a birth certificate to be upset with the guy. This is completely untested water with vague interpretations and no solid precedence to go on. When John Kerry was running for POTUS he often boasted about speaking with world leaders of France and England, etc, while he was on the campaign trail. This is something of revisionist history to pretend this sort of thing has never happened before. If there were laws against it the US would be incapable of doing the exact same shit in other countries, and we do this shit all the time. We are constantly trying to rig elections in other countries, its embarrassing to hear my fellow americans cry in their cheerios about how the big bad russians did something so unprecedented. We live in a pretty big fucking glass house, we should no better than to throw the 'meddling in elections' stone.

    22. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      But this is Trump, so this will amount to another round of Twitter outrage and blow over.

      First statement is true, as for the second one - just stand by

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    23. Re: Another round of nothing by Bartles · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Literally none of those things have happened. You seem to want them to have happened, so you are pretending that "evidence" suggests they did.

    24. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Pollution of information sources isn't hacking, it's good old fashioned propaganda.

      But it makes Liberals feel better to think the nation was duped into voting Trump. Then they can avoid facing the reality which is that a) people are generally sick of their bullshit and b) Clinton is a crook and Sanders is a moron.

    25. Re:Another round of nothing by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >as for the second one - just stand by

      I stopped thinking anything would happen to Trump when he went crazy over the inauguration photos and the Republican party didn't immediately convene to discuss how to remove someone that divorced from reality from the White House.

      Instead, people supported him, and continued with every new inappropriate thing he said afterwards. I don't care if his support is slowly falling in the polls to record lows, nothing seems to stop his party and their core voters from unconditionally supporting him.

      I'm not even particularly confident Mueller could produce a damning report that wouldn't be dismissed as 'fake news'. Impeachment would still require at least some republicans to turn on Trump.

    26. Re:Another round of nothing by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You have read about the high level FBI agent who texted that they needed and insurance plan against the remote chance that Trump might win the election, didn't you?

      This was the same agent who was assigned to be part of interviewing Huma Abedin, Cheryl Mills, Hillary Clinton, and Michael Flynn...all of them lied during those interviews, only one was charged. I think that and other similar revelations might have something to do with why Trump would trust ANYONE more than he trusted the heads of those agencies.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    27. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But really, if there's evidence, provide it. Not "an anonymous source close to the situation" or anything like that. Actual real tangible evidence that would be suitable for submitting to a court of law.

      What, members of Trump's team being indicted for lying about their contacts with Russians isn't good enough for you? They've been indicted on real evidence suitable for submitting to a court of law. Here's your link: https://www.realclearpolitics....

    28. Re: Another round of nothing by Tranzistors · · Score: 0

      I asked for links not because I found it inconceivable that US would meddle with elections, but because I wanted to see how it is done. USA absolutely attempts to affect Russian politics. E.g. they imposed sanctions to change Russian policy on Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Influencing other policies of other countries is called diplomacy.

      What I expected from guruevi was to give examples of US state sponsored troll factories, that derail forum conversations, helping gathering compromising information on Putin and United Russia and releasing such info to public shortly before elections, coordinating election campaign with Alexei Navalny or something of this sort.

    29. Re: Another round of nothing by e3m4n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do find it ironic that out of the hundreds of millions of dollars spent in advertising in this election, so many people are willing to believe that just $3000 in well placed Facebook ads is all it took to 'steal' an election. Does anyone besides Facebook have anything to gain by perpetuation this rumor? I mean that's totally amazing Advertisement for Facebook. "Ads placed on Facebook are 10,000 times more likely to be viewed than traditional media. A 2016 study showed that every dollar spent in ads on Facebook had more impact than $10,000 spent with our competitors" ... then they go about feeding those who are so anti-trump they will latch onto anything, and suddenly half the country believes that Facebook is the ultimate advertisement platform.

    30. Re:Another round of nothing by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

      Who says he trusted anyone? Distrust a foreign power particularly one run by a Soviet-era intelligence operative. But they weren't Trump's agencies by any stretch of the imagination. They were the last administration's agencies. Pretty much everyone in there came on board before he took office. They all have a vested interest in their own power, influence, and careers. I wouldn't trust them either.

    31. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      >Most likely doesn't want to Prove that AC is really a Russian troll.

      Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'd like to believe the Russians are recoiling in horror at how effective their efforts have been.

      More likely shaking their heads in amusement as they see the effects of an almost perfect storm of flaws exposed in the American Electoral system. Computerized gerrymandering, the ease with which the voting machines can be hacked, and an electoral system so bitched up that a candidate can lose even though they received over 3 million more votes than the winner.

      A candidate who is beholden to Russia because no other country is willing to lend him money, as well as some other activities involving Russia.

      An electorate where a good portion of them have been groomed via Fox Entertainment and other crypto-conservative outlets to View anything outside of the party as evil, inside, you can be a pedophile, and they will say it is bible-approved.

      The need for idealists to become more idea over time.

      And a racist backlash over a president of not the correct race being elected not once, but twice.

      Disasters seldom have a single cause.

      It appears that the non-crypto-conservatives have been energized to actually get out and vote. This is probably a good idea, because when an opposing political party starts parading people of such questionable morality that you wouldn't leave your 14 year old daughter alone in a romm with them, its haas cone a bit too far.

      As for the trolls in her who are still proclaiming there is no evidence, well that's some pretty impressive denial going on there. Seeing the obvious plea deals of some of the people involved, we'll be getting much more "absolutely no evidence" in addition to the "absolutely no evidence" we already have.

      The wheels of the FBI are grinding slowly, but they are grinding extremely fine.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    32. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, there are the lies about all the various meetings that people had with Russians. And then there's the fact that many of them improper and some arguably illegal.

      One of the issues we are not hearing much about today is the attempt to use Russian crypto equipment to bypass normal communications.

      I suspect the people who attempted to do that are praying they get offered a plea deal.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    33. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You have a very bizarre definition of "following this very closely" if you missed both Michael Flynn and George Papadopoulos pleading guilty to charges of lying to the FBI about contact with the Russians during the campaign and transition. It was on pretty much every news outlet available.

    34. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really need to start taking your meds again.

    35. Re:Another round of nothing by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Flynn and Papadopoulos.

      Oh, right, but those aren't "real" convictions of "real" crimes. And that guy over there isn't a true Scotsman.

    36. Re: Another round of nothing by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Great argument.

      Since you're argument is "IS NOT!" I think the only appropriate counter argument is "IS TOO!"

    37. Re:Another round of nothing by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Even if people don't admit that they were duped, just knowing that will make them more careful next time

      uhm, have you ever BEEN to the deep south and spoken with our, uhm, fellow americans?

      they are beyond hope. nothing will convert them. look at alabama. half of the fucking state STILL thought the child molester was better than having a clean guy with a D next to his name.

      no, just under half of this country is beyond hope. no way to change their minds. this election was proof of that, if you ever needed any.

      reason and logic and the R party? are you fucking kidding me??

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    38. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      We now have a couple of criminal convictions, even.

      That would be news to those of us who have been following this very closely. Please provide a citation.

      Suuuure you are following this very closely. Look up Mike FLynn, Trump's ex-security head Look up George Papadopoulos a foreign policy advisor.

      Amazing that a person such as yourself, who is an apparent expert on all of this does't know that bit of fact.

      Don't they get anything other than Fox News in Moscow?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    39. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      This immediately leads to questions about why a president might trust a foreign power over his own agencies.

      No, the real question and, as far as I know a question that no one is asking, is: if the elections have really been hacked, why not void them and have a do over?

      That would be cool, but the process of removing a sitting president in America is based on either Impeachment and removal, or the 25th amendment removal process, then there is a specific line of succession as to who is next in line. The next to are obviously vice president Mike Pence, followed by Paul Ryan, speaker of the house.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    40. Re: Another round of nothing by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Since you're argument was "IT IS!", the appropriate response was "IS NOT!". Feel free to provide sources that prove every statement you made as fact.

    41. Re:Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You left out "a deeply corrupt primary system in the opposition party that coronated the only person in the country that could lose a general election" and "hubris that stopped said candidate from stepping foot in the Rust Belt"

      Those were, after all, larger factors than anything you mentioned.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    42. Re:Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      No, they've found "business as usual" stuff, some pocket change thrown into ads, and oil guys that have ties to an oil rich company.

      Trump should be in jail or under a guillotine, but Russia is a big nothingburger.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    43. Re:Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      No, they are criminals, as are the entirety of the Trump administration, just not on what they are being accused of in this Russia hysteria.

      NEWSFLASH: Nobody in the Trump campaign had the CAPACITY to help Russia, and Russia was far more anti-Clinton than pro-Trump.

      I want the Trump administration stopped, so focus on his actual crimes, instead of the off-the-cuff excuse the Clintonites went to when Wikileaks caught them with their pants down.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    44. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      >as for the second one - just stand by

      I stopped thinking anything would happen to Trump when he went crazy over the inauguration photos and the Republican party didn't immediately convene to discuss how to remove someone that divorced from reality from the White House.

      The Republicans had control of all three governing bodies, House, Senate and Executive branch. They had some very specific tasks they wanted to accomplish, repeal of The Affordable care act, tax cuts and a lot of executive orders which suddenly became legal when Trump was inaugurated.

      So in a party that would support a suspected pedophile who was once kicked out of a Mall for harassing jailbait girls, it isn't all that surprising that they wouldn't have issues with our first Russian president as long as the agenda was met. It's amazing how far the party of the moral high ground has abandoned that concept.

      Gotta be a bit patient, this investigation is moving pretty fast compared to the investigations of other presidents.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    45. Re:Another round of nothing by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 2

      Even if people don't admit that they were duped, just knowing that will make them more careful next time

      uhm, have you ever BEEN to the deep south and spoken with our, uhm, fellow americans?

      they are beyond hope. nothing will convert them. look at alabama. half of the fucking state STILL thought the child molester was better than having a clean guy with a D next to his name.

      no, just under half of this country is beyond hope. no way to change their minds. this election was proof of that, if you ever needed any.

      reason and logic and the R party? are you fucking kidding me??

      I do live in California, where they would gladly do the same if you switch the R for D. Partisanship is not restricted to just one side or just one region of the country. I would apply your statement "reason and logic and the D party? Are you fucking kidding me??" to what we see here - the Sanctuary State.

    46. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You left out "a deeply corrupt primary system in the opposition party that coronated the only person in the country that could lose a general election" and "hubris that stopped said candidate from stepping foot in the Rust Belt"

      My fingers were tired.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    47. Re:Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      They've been using what evidence they can find of 3) to claim or imply 1), although replace "false" with negative, since the most damaging information was 100% real.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    48. Re:Another round of nothing by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What facts? 3rd hand information that someone somewhere saw something they interpreted as Putin giving an order? That's a fact to you?

      Show me the actual intercept, then it's a fact. And of course, they won't, because it's completely made up. They'll hide forever behind not revealing their capabilities.... as if the CIA has a tap on Putin's phone they don't want him to know about.... Do you really think that's even plausible?

      You don't think the CIA would make shit up to effect an election? They guys flying single engine planes under the radar to bring cocaine into this country wouldn't possibly do something bad like lie to the American public. Nope.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    49. Re:Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      Here's something that the majority of America would support to the extent that legality is moot:
      Shoot Trump and Clinton into the sun. Have a new primary and a new general election. Have an option on the ballots to shoot both candidates into the sun, just in case we end up in a similar situation. Rinse and repeat until we've got a candidate that the country doesn't hate.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    50. Re: Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      The problem is in the very definition of terrorism, because it isn't a difference based on morality, but on power.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    51. Re:Another round of nothing by Orgasmatron · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "Lying to the FBI" is quite a ways away from where we started, which, if you may recall was "attempting to work with that same power (Russia) to scuttle an opponent's election bid".

      Michael Flynn's job was literally to make contact with the governments of other countries, including Russia, after the election. Slashdot won't let me write that key word in huge letters for emphasis, so I'll just have to repeat it. AFTER the election. After. After. If anything he did after the election scuttled Hillary's chances before the election, I'd say that his impending Nobel prize for a working time machine would be worth it.

      As it is, he decided not to contradict his boss (Pence) while having what he thought was an informal water-cooler discussion with a colleague, but was actually an interrogation without his lawyer present, conducted by an FBI agent who is probably going to (literally) hang for sedition because all of this happened as part of a (literal) conspiracy to (literally) overthrow the legally elected President.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    52. Re: Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We don't need troll factories. We have the world's largest propaganda machine.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    53. Re: Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      They blamed Russia when they got caught with their pants down. They are grasping at any straws they can find.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    54. Re:Another round of nothing by walterbyrd · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      > Donald Trump Jr. met with a representative of the Russian government to discuss the Russians helping with the election in exchange for dropping Russian sanctions

      Please stop lying.

      Trump Jr. was trying to get opposition research. Something that is entirely legal.

      As a private citizen, Trump Jr. is allowed to speak to anybody he wants. It's called freedom of speech.

      The person Trump Jr. spoke to was not a representative of the Russian government. She was a GPS Fusion plant.

    55. Re: Another round of nothing by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      We don't need troll factories. We have the world's largest propaganda machine.

      Which one is that? “Voice of America” or “Marvel Studios”?

    56. Re:Another round of nothing by swillden · · Score: 3, Informative

      We now have a couple of criminal convictions, even.

      That would be news to those of us who have been following this very closely. Please provide a citation.

      Lying to investigators is a crime and guilty pleas are convictions. If you actually need a citation, then you haven't been following closely.

      Of course, lying to investigators isn't evidence of an actual conspiracy to do anything, though it looks very bad. The charges against Gates and Manfort are much more substantial, but not related to the Trump campaign.

      My guess is that Trump and his staff are too incompetent to have really colluded with the Russians to subvert the election. Putin decided to do what he could to manipulate the election on his own, and that it's impossible to know whether Trump would have lost without the Russian interference (I'd guess that Comey's October surprise had a bigger effect than everything Russia did). Russia did reach out to the Trump campaign (that's well-supported), and the Trump campaign was willing to cooperate but I suspect nothing happened that Putin wasn't already doing anyway, and the Russians were cagey enough not to say anything openly enough that the Trump staffers had a legal obligation to report it to the FBI. Which is good for the Trump team because they were too clueless to have realized they had such an obligation.

      So, I think the way this is going to work out is that Mueller is going to shake a lot of trees and a lot of dirt is going to fall out, because Trump is dirty and the people he works with are dirtier. Little of the dirt will be related to the election. Trump will probably have been sufficiently well-insulated from the dirt to escape prosecution, but the issue will dog his entire term of office, and his remaining three years in office will be even less effective than his first, assuming he lasts out his term. I give it even odds that some combination of health and stress over the investigation get him to resign or be removed under the 25th. There's also a chance that he gets frustrated and decides to try to shut down the investigation, which would generate a huge backlash, and probably convince GOP leaders to impeach him in self-defense.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    57. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coronated? Is that in your Russian-English dictionary?

    58. Re:Another round of nothing by ScentCone · · Score: 0

      Flynn and Papadopoulos.

      Neither of which are in any trouble, whatsoever, for anything having to do with "campaign collusion with the Russians" or the like. Which you know, but are carefully avoiding because it takes the fun out of your narrative.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    59. Re:Another round of nothing by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      You are using the time-honored practice of citing events that somewhat resemble what you're talking about, but which are factually - and substantially - NOT what you're claiming. In other words, you're lying, and you know it. Even the "couple of criminal convictions" you mention have nothing to do with what you're talking about. So why lie about it? Who are you talking to, that you think they're so dumb and unable to follow the actual words of the indictments?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    60. Re: Another round of nothing by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      so many people are willing to believe that just $3000 in well placed Facebook ads is all it took to 'steal' an election.

      It'd be convenient to dismiss if it was just Facebook ads, but it wasn't. The large number of fake comments all over Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, etc. designed to misinform and ultimately drive a deep wedge between US citizens. Trump has even been found retweeting some of these fake accounts.

    61. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the Russians keep saying it's a big nothingburger so they must be right.

    62. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter if they had the capability or not. The bomber in NYC did not have the capability to produce a working pipe bomb, however he's stuff fucked.

    63. Re:Another round of nothing by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you forgotten Schwarzenegger already?

      --
      a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
    64. Re: Another round of nothing by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      There is a tangible difference in terms of morality. Terrorism is the use of violence, usually against civilians, in order to instill fear and affect a political change. It is the equivalent of a gangster breaking your knees for no purpose other than to frighten others into paying him "protection money".

      Fighting against oppression by targeting military units and attempting to capture territory and strategic assets is a whole different thing. It's the equivalent of killing the aforementioned gangster and his cronies, or otherwise taking away their power over others. Instead of targeting largely powerless bystanders you target those who wield the power.

      Now it's true that "Freedom Fighters" can use terrorist tactics. In which case they would also be terrorists. The two terms are not mutually exclusive. In such a situation their ultimate goals might be moral, but their tactics would be immoral. Whether or not you support them despite their use of immoral tactics would depend on your own moral code. If you believe that the ends justify the means, you would likely be OK with it. Far too many people DO think that way, but generally speaking in the civilized world we tend to organize our civilisations around the idea that unethical conduct isn't acceptable even in the pursuit of noble ideals. We're not perfect at it, but we're trying, and overall we keep getting better.

    65. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So in other words you clearly fell for what you even recognize as propaganda. Liberals didn't vote for Trump, they either voted for a 3rd party or didn't vote at all which is what got us into this mess.

    66. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...and suddenly half the country believes that Facebook is the ultimate advertisement platform."

      Got to promote this idea so Zuckerberg can become president.

    67. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You asked for criminal convictions, you got them and still you quibble. Papadopoulos' Italian fiancee Simona Mangiante (who was introduced to him by, fancy that!, Joseph Mifsud) characterized him as the âoefirst domino in Russiagateâ. Flynn and Papadopoulos are the beginning, not the end.

    68. Re: Another round of nothing by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 1

      It's vapid only if you miss the point of the saying, which is that the titles of "hero" or "villain" are assigned according to political expediency, not actual merit.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    69. Re:Another round of nothing by ScentCone · · Score: 0

      The changing stories from those involved as their lies were exposed? FAKE NEWS!!!

      In the sense that anything along those lines has anything at all to do with the "Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to hack the election" narrative, yes, it IS fake news. Which you know.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    70. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know comrade its really fun to play both parties at the same time. Like this: http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-trolls-senate-intelligence-committee-hearing-2017-11

    71. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because by "hacked" they mean there was more propaganda from foreign sources than normal. No one's vote was switched by a 3rd party after they voted thus there's no grounds for a reelection. There wasn't any election fraud, at least no more so than normal. The main parties pump out so much bullshit going up to the election that it's really telling that they're whining about someone else doing it too. They designed the system so they could game it and are now complaining that it's possible to game the system. The odd thing, the propaganda they're complaining about was more truthful than the propaganda they put out. Assholes.
        Fire them all.

      Why the fuck are my tax dollars going toward helping the Democrats and Republicans political parties? The parties aren't government organizations, they're just private companies. They should hold their own primaries instead of making states do it for them.

    72. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regarding #1 you should really follow @MikeFarb1 on Twitter.

      Also providing meme factories and inflammatory comments troll farms is crossing a line; seems like sharing gasoline with your neighbor's house on fire, when he/she asked for water hose.

    73. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, that's starting to look a lot like Late Rome. Desperately searching for competent leadership, but killing anyone who becomes emperor in a couple years when he fails to reverse the decline in the empire. Face it, America is in decline, and now everyone is in a panic searching for a politician who can save us, but it's beyond the power of a politician to fix at this point.

    74. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if the elections have really been hacked, why not void them and have a do over?

      How do you unhack the voters? I don't get it. Did someone go through them all, and "clean" them? Or are they still infected? You're talking about re-installing election app on a bunch of people who are still running the virus. The election app will still be compromised.

    75. Re:Another round of nothing by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

      Yes, people can do opposition research. But correct me if I'm wrong: when you're seeking out a foreign government for it, I think that's when it becomes illegal, including treason and collision.

      If it was revealed Obama had gone to the Vietnam government for 'opposition research' on John McCain, think the Republicans would have let that slide? There's so many things wrong with that! (Oh boy, I might have just spawned a whole new conspiracy theory..ugh..)

    76. Re:Another round of nothing by Orgasmatron · · Score: 0

      You are delusional. You are literally living in a fake news bubble. Turn off CNN and MSNBC and take a look at what the DOJ Inspector General has been releasing. The dirt isn't falling on Trump or his people, it is falling on Mueller's "investigators".

      Also, notice that so far the only actual Russian involvement in the election to have been demonstrated was pro-Hillary and pro-BLM Facebook ads. And so far all of the "Russians" attempting to collude with the campaign were actually Democrats.

      If you don't seek out some real information, you are going to be in for a very rude surprise when this doesn't turn out the way you are hoping.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    77. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Burden of proof is to prove something happened.

      It's impossible to prove a negative.

    78. Re:Another round of nothing by fredrated · · Score: 1

      You are wrong, but it is what I expect from a Republican. At least in California you have been made irrelevant.

    79. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, thank you, another one of the "very bad people on both sides" false equivalencies.

      Republicans literally lie about what they're doing. Many, many claims about the tax reform bill, for instance, are demonstrably false. You may disagree about the politics of the laws from that brief period from 2009-2011 when Democrats could both pass and sign legislation, but I'd challenge you to find a bill that had been similarly misrepresented in public.

    80. Re:Another round of nothing by Solandri · · Score: 0

      At this point, the only mechanism we have for "correcting" the mistake is to elect an opposition party to power in Congress in 2018.

      Good luck with that. The Democrats might win the House, but they're highly unlikely to win the Senate. There are 24 Democratic Senate seats (and 2 independents who vote with the Dems) up for re-election in 2018, vs just 8 Republican seats. And 5 of those Democrats are in states which voted for Trump by huge margins. Senators are re-elected every 6 years, so those Democrats rode Obama's re-election coattails to win in these deep-red states. The more likely outcome is a Republican gain in the Senate.

      (2016 was the reverse, with Republicans defending 24 Senate seats, vs. just 10 for the Democrats. That was the year the Democrats had to pick up seats to win the Senate. The Republicans escaped it losing only 2 seats and maintaining control. 2020 is more favorable to the Democrats, with 22 Republicans and 11 Democratic Senate seats up for re-election.)

      Yes the House is skewed by gerrymandering. What bugs me is that the press is just now reporting on gerrymandering being a problem, when they completely ignored it during the 40 years (1955-1994) the Democrats controlled the House. All this stuff about the gerrymandering problem is old hat to me because I tried to explain it all to people in the 1980s. Culminating in a ballot initiative to try to fix the problem. Environmental groups and NOW ran ads against it and defeated it because they knew the the districts were gerrymandered to favor Democrats, so fixing the problem then would've meant more Republicans in office. I'll vote for any sensible reform, but I won't cry any tears if it fails. Those groups made their bed - they can lie in it. (Republicans overcame gerrymandering by coming up with a strategy to defeat it that didn't involve winning legislative seats - win the governorship in states where Democrats controlled both state legislatures, and simply veto the gerrymandered districts the Democrats came up with.)

    81. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone please help me figure out how to write a post without manually copying the initials from my username into the body of my post? Everyone else has this figured out, why am I having so much trouble with this basic concept?

      RT.

    82. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming those ads influenced the election enough to sway it the other way.
      You're ignoring the fact that the election was decided by a marginal number of people in a small number of swing states.
      You're ignoring the fact that meddling and attempts to influence the election by a national adversary is enough of a problem on its own, whether or not they succeeded.
      You're ignoring the fact that Republicans are ignoring the problem because it served their selfish desires. Party over country every fucking time.

    83. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which was what, exactly?

      "False" may be overstatement, but "extremely misleading" or "obviously slanted" wouldn't be.

      1) Email? Check your fucking playbook and you'll realize it has been Republicans floating the expansive constitutional power of the executive since, well, basically forever at this point. If Clinton's boss (you know, the President) didn't give a shit, that's all there is to it. I've said the same thing when our current idiot-in-chief has inadvertently blabbed about something classified just to make himself look good. In terms of foreign relations, other than ratifying treaties, the power of the executive is not limited nor limitable by the other branches.

      2) Benghazi? Please. Replace "Ansar al-Sharia" with "Al Queda," Libya with World Trade Center, Clinton with GWB, and we suddenly go from 'this is all her fault' to 're-elect him by a landslide.' Do we hold Trump even vaguely accountable for the four servicemen killed in Niger in October? It's okay for him to say NOTHING for two weeks, but since there was some delay in using the word "terrorism" with respect to Libya, it's all her fault? I guess I agree that the literal facts were "100% real" but to argue that they should have been relevant is asinine.

      What else was there again?

    84. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #FakeNews

    85. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know that Trump makes up shit.
      I know that Republicans make up shit.
      I know that you make up shit.

      Therefore I'm going to file your unsubstantiated claims under "made-up shit".

    86. Re:Another round of nothing by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Flynn was convicted for not following this advice. Poor fool. Not that I feel sorry for him, but if you talk to a federal agent, one slip of memory is all it takes to end in jail like Martha Stewart.

      Seriously, there's a reason you don't talk to cops.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    87. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow. Prejudiced much

      I am from the Northeast, have lived in the south, southwest, and west coast, and guess what? All have different levels of stupid on different subjects, but the overall level of stupid? About the same nationwide.

    88. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fake News" has never been and will never be a valid argument.

      Where would you suggest that we go to get so called "real news"?

    89. Re:Another round of nothing by swillden · · Score: 1

      The dirt isn't falling on Trump or his people, it is falling on Mueller's "investigators".

      Please provide a citation.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    90. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like it! Good idea!

      But if either Clinton or Trump manage to eat the sun, then, we will know they are the true antichrist, just like their antagonists believe them to be!

    91. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do find it ironic that out of the hundreds of millions of dollars spent in advertising in this election, so many people are willing to believe that just $3000 in well placed Facebook ads is all it took to 'steal' an election. Does anyone besides Facebook have anything to gain by perpetuation this rumor? I mean that's totally amazing Advertisement for Facebook.

      Indeed. And it's a damn shame that anyone might believe that was the extent of Russia's participation.

      Instead, Russia employed an army of "personas" who were given marching orders to embed themselves in most of the popular social networking sites and argue as if they were Americans who had a stake in this race. In addition, numerous fake news sites were setup which these people would use to back up their claims.

      Now, you might ask, why is this important? What kind of real impact could several thousand people arguing for one side over another make? Well, it turns out that you can sway the overwhelming majority of people if only a small percentage of the total discussion takes a strong stance on an issue.

      "Ads placed on Facebook are 10,000 times more likely to be viewed than traditional media. A 2016 study showed that every dollar spent in ads on Facebook had more impact than $10,000 spent with our competitors" ... then they go about feeding those who are so anti-trump they will latch onto anything, and suddenly half the country believes that Facebook is the ultimate advertisement platform.

      The inherent problem with your assertion is that it leaves out most of what Russia actually did and your argument would be relevant were it not for that reality.

    92. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was the same agent who was assigned to be part of interviewing Huma Abedin, Cheryl Mills, Hillary Clinton, and Michael Flynn...all of them lied during those interviews, only one was charged.

      Interesting. No, actually amazing.

      Lying to the FBI what what Flynn's charges were reduced to based on his agreement to testify. Had he not agreed to do so, the the lying to the FBI charge would have been buried so far down the list that it never would have been discussed.

      My question to you is; are you simply a partisan who is too lazy to colllect all of the evidence and then form a conclusion or are you someone spreading a bullshit agenda?

    93. Re:Another round of nothing by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      "This immediately leads to questions about why a president might trust a foreign power over his own agencies."

      It's surprising that people still take Trump's words at face value. Trump is doing it for show -- he will say anything, no matter how nonsensical it may seem to us, to remove or weaken an obstacle. I don't think he *trusts* Putin or that he even has a strong opinion on it and in a month Trump can say exactly the opposite if he thinks that will move him forward. For me none of this comes even close to Trump saying during primaries that Ted Cruz's father was involved in Kennedy assassination. That pushed Cruz over the edge and made him quit the race before time. Mission accomplished and after that Cruz was "a great guy".

      Now we as tech people may loathe that way of approaching reality but you can't deny the evidence that it's working for him.

    94. Re: Another round of nothing by guruevi · · Score: 1

      From Wikipedia:

      Russian election (U.S., 1996)[edit]
      The first Russian president Boris Yeltsin won his second term in 1996 Presidential elections thanks to the extensive assistance provided by the team of media and PR experts from the US.[25] According to the cover story in the Time magazine,[26] these were Steven Moore, Joe Shumate, Felix Braynin, George Gorton and Richard Dresner, who worked in Russia four months and received $250 thousand, plus payment of all costs and unlimited budget to conduct surveys and other activities. Simultaneously the US administration ensured a US$10.2 billion IMF loan to Russia[27] as it was drowning in the economic and social disaster, to keep the national economy and pro-Western liberal government afloat.[28] The loan funds have been fraudulently misused by Yeltsin's inner circle, and the IMF has knowingly turned a blind eye to these facts.[29] Although the aggressive pro-Yeltsin campaign boosted his approval rate from initial 6%[30] to 35% that he got during the first round of elections, and later made him win the second round against the left-wing competitor with 54% to 40%, there were wide speculations about the rigged nature of the official results.[31]

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    95. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The outcome of the election is not decided by advertising to 129 million voters. In 2017, the outcome of the election swung on roughly 80,000 votes in 3 states.

    96. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know pedo-bart news tells you that it was only 3k but that is only a drop in the bucket compared to the actual costs. I'm surprised I have to explain this to anyone on a tech news site. I can buy 3k in ads and then spend 1 million on bots to push them out and boost the view rate. The ads were just a part of the attack. The fake websites, the fake user accounts and bits that constantly flood message boards and share the propaganda. There is while expensive operation that took place and Facebook ads was just a small part.

    97. Re:Another round of nothing by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      If you don't seek out some real information, you are going to be in for a very rude surprise when this doesn't turn out the way you are hoping.

      Wow. Just wow. Can you not see the irony of you embracing the right wing spin and labeling everything else fake news while making this statement?

      Think about that, for just a second. How are you not doing exactly what you're complaining about "the other side" doing?

      FFS, where do you think the terms "fake news" and "alternate facts" came from? Those terms came from people failing to seek out real information, being surprised when things didn't turn out the way they wanted them to, and needing to childishly rebrand reality to make it conform (at least in their mind) to their mistaken and ill-informed belief.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    98. Re:Another round of nothing by GNious · · Score: 1

      The next to are obviously vice president Mike Pence, followed by Paul Ryan, speaker of the house.

      It's shitstains all the way down ?

    99. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it's great to see that you've woken from your 12+ month nap. You've missed a lot of stuff over the last year. Things that literally did happen, like indictments against multiple Trump campaign and administration members which resulted in two guilty pleas. There have also been a number of people who have admitted to meetings with Russians that they had previously denied. Michael Flynn, Don Jr, Jeff Sessions, and Jared Kushner say hello. Not only did Trump associates meet with Russians but we've learned, through evidence that has been made public (some of it even released by Don Jr himself), that these meetings involved discussions of obtaining dirt against Hillary Clinton's campaign (sometimes with the expectation of lifting sanctions against Russia in exchange) in the hopes that they could use that dirt to try and swing the election in their favor.

      All of this stuff literally happened and has been reported by multiple news agencies from the left, right, and center of the political spectrum (CNN, Fox News, Washington Post, NY Times, etc). Man, it's been a crazy year. Honestly, I wish I could have slept through it a s well. You're a lucky person.

    100. Re:Another round of nothing by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Lying to investigators is a crime and guilty pleas are convictions. If you actually need a citation, then you haven't been following closely.

      To be a pedant, no conviction has occurred, unless something happened when I wasn't paying attention. A plea bargain between prosecutors and accused in which the accused will be agreeing to plead guilty to a crime will lead to a conviction but the conviction does not occur until the charges are brought forth before a court and judge.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    101. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want a fair do-over go back to the primaries. The major democratic news media bashed everybody but Trump hard. They waited until after the primary to bash Trump.

    102. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just US spies, it's all the spies, all over the world, that saw this.

      And Trump's refusal to acknowledge it, and his Oval Office meeting with actual Russian spies where he gave up confidential security information, means our allies no longer feel comfortable sharing intel with us.

      If it's a clear and present danger, I'm sure they'd tell us what we need to know, but overall, Trump makes us less safe.

    103. Re:Another round of nothing by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 0

      elections have really been hacked

      What if I told you I actually believe the Election was hacked, and Trump won in spite of it? The Real story is the Obama Justice Dept's collusion with GPS to get fake Russian Intel on Trump. But the rank and file Democrats haven't figured out it was their party that did it, not Trump.

      Remember, Trump is an idiot, and as an idiot, isn't smart enough to pull this off. But he is dumb enough he has framed the FBI to stick the wife of an investigator on the payroll of Fusion GPS.

      You can't make this shit up.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    104. Re: Another round of nothing by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      And here I was hoping for something more recent. For me 20 years ago doesn't quite qualify as current events. Besides, the copy-pasta text didn't illustrate use of propaganda, just campaign funding with corruption on top, the latter being name of the game in Russia.

    105. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obamacare.

      If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.

      Too easy.

    106. Re:Another round of nothing by swillden · · Score: 2

      Lying to investigators is a crime and guilty pleas are convictions. If you actually need a citation, then you haven't been following closely.

      To be a pedant, no conviction has occurred, unless something happened when I wasn't paying attention. A plea bargain between prosecutors and accused in which the accused will be agreeing to plead guilty to a crime will lead to a conviction but the conviction does not occur until the charges are brought forth before a court and judge.

      Papadopolous and Flynn have both formally pleaded guilty to a US district court, not just made an agreement with the prosecutor. AFAICT neither has been sentenced.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    107. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I kept my doctor no lie there. Try harder.

    108. Re:Another round of nothing by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 1

      Congratulations on adding nothing to the conversation.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    109. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me but I live in what you call the "deep south", not Alabama but just as deep, so how about you explain to this country bumpkin exactly how they were duped?

      they are beyond hope. nothing will convert them. look at alabama. half of the fucking state STILL thought the child molester was better than having a clean guy with a D next to his name.

      Let's be clear here, you have convicted a man based on nothing but accusations, not evidence. Accusations that never came out in any other election this man ran in in the last 40 years. No, they only surfaced after the oh so Republican friendly Washington Post sent reporters looking for dirt. And at least in the case of the year book we now know that she lied and forged that herself.

      So you are the one willing to blindly accept an allegation against a candidate you don't like and yet you are saying it is southerners that are beyond hope and easily duped? Looks to me like us hillbillies might actually still believe in that tired old philosophy of innocent until proven guilty. We understand those of you living in your coastal bubbles think that might be passe' but us gun-totin, bible-thumping, Constitution lovin rednecks still believe in it.

      But lets see what happens in the coming weeks, shall we? Will these so called victims fade away or do they pursue any form of justice? Any statute of limitations on a criminal act may have expired but they could still bring a civil case. Lets see how many of these accusers continue now that he's lost.

    110. Re:Another round of nothing by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      You are wrong, but it is what I expect from a Republican.

      Stereotype much?

      At least in California you have been made irrelevant.

      You take great pride in making others who disagree with you irrelevant. What happens when a group is pushed too far to the margins? They push back in other ways. Besides, California is declining along just about any quality of life indicator you want to use (housing, commute / traffic, education, taxes) so I wouldn't be too smug about how it's going. The only thing glorious about California is the climate, and that wasn't made by a political party.

    111. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh look, another salty moving-the-goalposts "hurr he lost the popular vote" post.

      The popular vote is not how a president is elected, and hasn't been, ever. Stop bringing up the popular vote, it diminishes anything else you are trying to say because it just demonstrates that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

    112. Re:Another round of nothing by Orgasmatron · · Score: 0

      Here is Jim Jordan laying out the basics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Notice that the DOJ Inspector General's office is prepping Congress and the public ahead of important witness testimony. Analysis here: https://theconservativetreehou...

      One month from today, they intend to release 1.2 million documents. Think of it as a late Christmas present for America.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    113. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Twitter outrage... from PRISON perhaps.

    114. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CIA are terrorizing any other country they can. Drones do not bring peace, safety or security.

    115. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You really need to start taking your meds again.

      Wel;l then give the damn things back to me.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    116. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Literally none of those things have happened.

      Lets examine one of his claims.

      Donald Trump Jr. met with a representative of the Russian government to discuss the Russians helping with the election in exchange for dropping Russian sanctions.

      Evidence: https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/884789418455953413

      This is evidence posted by the accused (why? I have no idea).

    117. Re:Another round of nothing by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I love how sarcastic quips from a complete asshole are now evidence of a criminal treasonous conspiracy. "went on TV and asked the Russians to release Clinton's emails"... do you even believe this shit yourself? I fucking hate Trump and even I know that particular incident was just an ill-advised joke in the middle of a thoroughly unimportant press conference during a Presidential election. If Trump thought the Russians had those emails, and if his campaign was colluding with the Russians (as you claim) why the fuck would he ask for that on live TV in front of 5+ different news networks? Have you even thought about that at all? Why wouldn't he have one of his soon-to-be-indicted (if not already indicted) flunkies ask them to do it when doing all the other back-room treasonous conspiracy and sedition?

      Use your brain, please.

      --
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    118. Re:Another round of nothing by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The next to are obviously vice president Mike Pence, followed by Paul Ryan, speaker of the house.

      It's shitstains all the way down ?

      Oh my yes. Some folks are hoping to delay the impeachment until right after the 2018 elections to avoid just this.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    119. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More than that, why are there so many people standing up and crying foul when (allegedly) Russia did this to the US, when the US has been meddling and rigging elections in scores of countries for the better part of the 20th century? Maybe it's time to re-think how easy it is to (allegedly) manipulate people and (allegedly) commit election fraud - it's not like any of this is new.

      I guess it's bad this time because the person from the popular chosen tribe managed to lose to the most flawed candidate to ever win?

    120. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is tons of irrefutable evidence. Just because reality is not the way you want it to be doesn't mean anyone is going to take you seriously when you say the earth is flat. The evidence is overwhelming and it's not going away despite your whining and crying.

    121. Re:Another round of nothing by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Why waste perfectly good rockets on these two? A few cinderblocks, some chain, two straight jackets and an ocean-going boat would be just fine.

      --
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    122. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll disappear into the woodwork, like Trump's accusers did, only to surface again later when there's another political motive. Real accusations involve filing criminal charges after the event occurs. Not waiting decades and then going to the press right before an election. Scum that pull this shit cause direct harm to those who have been truly victimized, as their claims get lost in the sea of false accusations.

      This smear was so blatantly obvious, I still shake my head when people believe and repeat it. Another one of those depressing, "humanity really is that stupid" moments. The public seems to fall for the MSM's old "keep repeating a lie until people believe it's true" trick, time and time again.

    123. Re: Another round of nothing by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The 2012 Russian elections aren't recent enough for you? But the above instance is well documented but according to studies, talked about in the same Wikipedia article, the US is actually more involved in foreign elections than Russia, both do it covertly so you won't hear anything official until well after a "victory" like the Russian elections of 20 years ago.

      --
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    124. Re:Another round of nothing by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

      Shoot Trump and Clinton into the sun.

      JESUS CHRIST, we're doing a good job messing up the Earth as it is. And now you want to start corrupting the Sun too?

      Just imagine if the Sun's happy face morphed into Hillary. IEEeeee, it's be Halloween every single day. Or Trump's hair would cause a solar prominence to no end -- it'd take out Mercury and we'd be left with only 8 planets.

      --
      If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
    125. Re: Another round of nothing by Quantum+gravity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Russia did much more that Facebook advertising. They hacked the democratic party and had Wikileaks published 20000 internal stolen emails. This was denied by the Trump campaign and Trump instead at a rally said, ""Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing". US intelligence released a statement stating that Russia was responsible and Obama kicked out a number of Russian diplomats and enforced sanctions on Russia. While Trump claimed it "could be Russia, but it could also be China, it could also be lots of other people. It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds".

      Russia is trying to undermine faith in US democracy, and not only that but is interfering in the election process of many western counties. This is what Theresa May said about it a month ago: “I have a very simple message for Russia. We know what you are doing. And you will not succeed. Because you underestimate the resilience of our democracies, the enduring attraction of free and open societies, and the commitment of western nations to the alliances that bind us."

    126. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either of which would arguably be a better choice than who we have now.

    127. Re: Another round of nothing by guruevi · · Score: 2

      Bold claim. However it has never been proven.

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    128. Re: Another round of nothing by shanen · · Score: 1

      Under the new troll policies, it now appears the fake "funny" mods are a good way to find the comments they don't want people to see...

      --
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    129. Re:Another round of nothing by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1

      Unless, of course, we find that team Trump was actively involved in helping the Russians with #3. And Frankly, that wouldn't surprise me, especially with the reports of how the Russian were very talented at targeting the right voters. They could pretty much only get that targeting information from the Trump campaign. I suspect that is what Meuller is really digging for.

    130. Re: Another round of nothing by Quantum+gravity · · Score: 1

      The first paragraph is facts only. The second is an interpretation of Russian intentions but is hardly original or controversial. This is not so much about Trump vs Clinton or Democrats vs Republicans, this is about a corrupt tyrant, Putin, vs western democracies. In France Macron's campaign reported thousands of attacks on its servers och accused Russian media of spreading false statements about Macron. Reports say that Russia has targeted 27 western countries with hacking and disinformation.

    131. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Over a billion was spent.

      Last June, over $58M was spent on a single election in my district - for a house vacancy, not even a senate position.

      All the people knocking on my door for 3 weeks prior to the election, multiple times a day, convinced me that we need to alter our election laws in a simple way.
      1) Only humans signed up to vote in an election should have any influence over it. That includes ads or "news" from anywhere outside.
      2) PAC money, especially from other states should be illegal. Funding from national parties needs to be illegal too.
      3) Corporations are not people. A person can be jailed. A corporation cannot. Corporations just get killed off and rebirthed after a few months. I've done that with my companies too. It is handy.

      Facebook is for idiots.

    132. Re: Another round of nothing by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      If your morals boil down to "whatever benefits me the most", then yes, I suppose that's true. Not all of is are sociopaths, though.

    133. Re: Another round of nothing by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      It's not Russia, but would 2015 and Israel, does that count?

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    134. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      A tap on Putin's phone is way more beneficial than trying to convince people like you after they've provided sufficient evidence already. This should be common sense not to give up your Intel sources. I'm willing to assume the heads of the spy agencies who've served in military positions with support of the employees has American patriotism in spades. I don't deny they do bad shit as well, but it's in American best interests they do the shit they do.

    135. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Did you watch the fucking Tom Cruise movie? They wanted guns delivered not cocaine. That was all Tom Cruise's characters doing with the cocaine. They fucked him over in the end for all the coke.

    136. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah-nold wasn't just elected in a normal election, either. The people of California recalled the Democratic governor, held a special election, and elected a Republican. If you leave the major cities of California you'll find that it's actually pretty conservative.

    137. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      I'm a Canadian in Mexico on vacation. This checks out.

    138. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      He said that in good faith at the time. He didn't realize how there were so many basic, shitty plans that were garbage, or that doctors only take money from some insurance companies and not others. That is a result of your fucked up insurance system. You need to double down and get rid of all those insurance companies.

    139. Re: Another round of nothing by Bartles · · Score: 1

      You still think it was the Trump campaign that did the colluding? Are you on crack?

    140. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. 3,000 worth of ads. How many people clicked 'like' and shared those ads with their 20 friends, then those 20 friend's friends, etc.. they might have been seen millions of times.
      2. Facebook isn't the only social media site that was influenced. Twitter and many others have slowly come around to realizing that there were large amounts of 'agents', 'trolls', whatever you want to call them, attempting to influence opinions in a well-planned way.

    141. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're ignori7the fact that there is no difference at all between the two parties. None. Zip.

      It's just a show for the weak minded, such as yourself, so you can feel good about your vote for the Uniparty and hate the people who voted for different members of the ruling Uniparty rather than the real problem, the Uniparty itself.

    142. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because there's no provision in the constitution for having a "do over".

    143. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Love how that number keeps going down. Anyway, you're an idiot.

      so many people are willing to believe that just $3000 in well placed Facebook ads is all it took to 'steal' an election.

      Nobody believes that.

    144. Re:Another round of nothing by swillden · · Score: 1

      So, nothing from any official source.

      One month from today, they intend to release 1.2 million documents.

      I'll believe it when I see it.

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    145. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      You just validated everything he said with "We understand those of you living in your coastal bubbles think that might be passe' but us gun-totin, bible-thumping, Constitution lovin rednecks still believe in it." I've mostly only heard this when a bumpkin is defending their racism and prejudice. Claim they're simple and not city folk. Oh how you think you're righteous, rather than informed. I mean, you still pick and choose from a 1600-3000 year old book from people you don't like rather than get with the science times. I say this as having heard this twice this week from Kansas and Missouri people who stand by their convictions but are so uninformed/misinformed and there's no changing their minds because they don't want to hear otherwise. It's almost like they're told all their lives they are stupid, so don't bother having critical thinking skills.

    146. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      It's just been proven by Weinstein and Crosby victims you stupid, fucking piece of shit. Jesus fucking Christ you're a cunt. Let's see how you deal with sexual abuse from very powerful and rich men and see how you fucking deal with it. Oh, and fuck you. (I really hope you don't have sisters or daughters, because you are a piece of shit)

    147. Re:Another round of nothing by Orgasmatron · · Score: 0

      If you aren't reading 20 or 30 different sites and cross referencing the stories, and checking sources, and watching videos to find out what people actually said - you aren't well informed. If you are getting all of your news from like 2 or 3 sites, no matter which sites they are, you might as well be reading the news from another planet.

      Pretty much every news site you come across has a bias. The cable news sites (CNN, MSNBC, etc) are sure that Mueller is going to impeach Trump any day now. Pro-Trump sites are less monolithic, but they are hoping that Sessions is about to indict half of DC.

      Elsewhere in this thread, I linked to conservativetreehouse.com, which has a far better record than most sites at digging for actual facts, but you need to pay attention when sundance is offering his opinions - he tends to be guardedly optimistic. It is probably the best starting point around, but you still need to use it as a starting point, not an ending point.

      The_Donald on reddit and /pol/ will throw a ton of stuff at you with highly variable quality. CNN or MSN or nearly any other part of reddit will do the same thing but with the opposite slant.

      --
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    148. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      You just fucking did.

    149. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      When the US meddles, it's supposedly for stability, democracy, and the least shitty option that would be friendly with the US. Oh wait...

    150. Re:Another round of nothing by Orgasmatron · · Score: 0

      SJWs always project. The big news orgs started tossing around "fake news" in an attempt to slander other news sites. But, true to the 2nd rule, we found out that they were the worst offenders.

      Remember how all of the news sites said that Hillary was going to win? That was Fake News. And there are collages of and video compilations of crying people who put their faith in that fake news.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    151. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      They fucking show Facebook and Twitter posts on the news like it's a credible source, seen by millions all the fucking time.

    152. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 2

      I forget which news, maybe RT, but I recently heard Putin is all pissed off with the West because he's paranoid of them seizing his $200 billion in offshore funds and a trial at the Hague. Just to be clear, the west have a lot of bad shit on Putin ( ie, torturing and killing) and when he's not in power, he's fair game.

    153. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      I always thought the Mafia was more believable and weren't caught because of them blackmailing the CIA. Some Mafia people have mentioned various things over the years, but who knows if it's just bragging where you can't get caught. Weren't those records released already?

    154. Re: Another round of nothing by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      A really good movie plot would be to do things just as they are now, but at some point Trump throws Putin under the bus and then comes out and says he was playing him the whole time, and couldn't tell anyone because he couldn't trust them. Probably a comedy.

    155. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't really address the GP in saying it wasn't a member of the Russian government.

      In fact you totally ignored it. I don't really have a horse in this race but the logic of your response was absurd.

    156. Re: Another round of nothing by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      Ok, I get it, there are no reputable sources that can back up 2012 election meddling claims. I get it, that happens. Can you at least give a pointer to the sources you used to get yourself informed? Of course, if you work for FSB, this information is off confidential and you should not share it.

    157. Re: Another round of nothing by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      The problem with this argument is that it isn't clear-cut.

      If you are trying to fight what you see as an occupying power, and you target their civilian support infrastructure besides their military assets, are you a freedom fighter or a terrorist?

      And no, this is not theory, this was the entire justification of the Provisional IRA's attacks against Loyalist civilians.

      --
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    158. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I used to believe that too. But it's not true.

      First, you're forgetting the young. In 2020, there will be several million Americans eligible to vote who weren't in 2016. They'll all have heard this story, but they'll assume it doesn't apply to them because they didn't even have a vote.

      Second, you're forgetting people who only consume highly partisan news sources, which is to say a shockingly large portion of the electorate today. They'll never hear anything like a fair and balanced version of this story.

      Third, even without those groups: people, in statistically significant sample sizes at least, do not learn from experience in this way. Most people's idea of "learning from experience" is the mental equivalent of blacklisting a spammer's email address. Assuming that, next time, the Russians (or whoever) are smart enough to vary their tactics (just about any permutation of news/social media/planted stories/real events/political talk for all sides), it'll slip right past.

    159. Re: Another round of nothing by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The Russians have about as much evidence for their 2012 election meddling than the US does for their 2016 election. Keeping myself informed: I read CNN, Fox, BBC, Al-Jazeera, Wikipedia and Google News.

      --
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    160. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "if the elections have really been hacked, why not void them and have a do over?"

      That's easy enough - there is no provision in the Constitution to do such a thing, it wouldn't be legal.

    161. Re:Another round of nothing by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you've got bigger problems than I thought. Good luck with life! Reality is really going to be painful for you.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    162. Re:Another round of nothing by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Please provide a citation.

      Peter Strzok, key investigator in Clinton and Trump investigations: "I want to believe the path you threw out for consideration in Andy's office that there's no way he gets elected -- but I'm afraid we can't take that risk. It's like an insurance policy in the unlikely event you die before you're 40"

      http://www.washingtonexaminer....

      The REAL Russian collusion: Bribery for US uranium: http://www.newsweek.com/how-ro...

    163. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But also, you make up shit.

    164. Re: Another round of nothing by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Fighting against oppression by targeting military units and attempting to capture territory and strategic assets is a whole different thing.

      Do you not think the victims of "collateral damage" are terrorized? Of course they are, and that is a principal goal of any effort to "capture territory".

    165. Re: Another round of nothing by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Not all of us are sociopaths, though.

      No, but most military planners are.

    166. Re:Another round of nothing by skam240 · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to understand the difference between possibly colluding with an adversarial nation to get dirt on an opponent and paying not an adversarial nation for dirt on an opponent. One is bad, the other is infinity worse though (hint: adversary).

      Trump is an idiot, sure. That does not at absolve him of Russian involvement though. Meanwhile a government checking out potential foreign ties of a future leader seems awfully prudent, don't you think? Sure, one can claim political favoritism in this case but one can just as easily claim the desire to not want our leaders influenced by adversarial nations. Trump has a number of arrows that point from him to Russia, investigating that is not at all unreasonable.

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    167. Re:Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you show the average person evidence that someone is doing something bad, they might ask questions about the reliability of the evidence.

      If his own spy agency shows Trump evidence that Russia is doing something bad, he denounces them and has an off-the-record chat with Putin.

      I wouldn't trust a spy agency as a general rule - their whole existence is about getting what they want by deception - but I'd hardly trust the Russians when it comes to a domestic agency's claims against them.

      This immediately leads to questions about why a president might trust a foreign power over his own agencies. And more questions when there are records of his team attempting to work with that same power to scuttle an opponent's election bid, that have been consistently lied about in an obvious cover-up.

      But this is Trump, so this will amount to another round of Twitter outrage and blow over.

      There is another issue. If Trump himself is divulging information back to the Russians on what his security agencies have told about what they know, that is treason.
      That's putting security personnel and Americans at risk and undermining our country/govt. That's one of the uses of ropes.

    168. Re: Another round of nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

    169. Re:Another round of nothing by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Nobody in the Trump campaign had the CAPACITY to help Russia

      If they hadn't gotten caught conspiring with Russia, they very well might have had the capacity to drop sanctions against Russia, which is clearly what Russia was after. Even Trump Jr.'s story indicates that Russia was offering to fix the election in exchange for dropping sanctions once they were in office.

    170. Re:Another round of nothing by nine-times · · Score: 1

      As a private citizen, Trump Jr. is allowed to speak to anybody he wants. It's called freedom of speech.

      As a part of a presidential campaign, he is not allowed to solicit assistance from hostile foreign intelligence agencies.

      The person Trump Jr. spoke to was not a representative of the Russian government.

      Did you read the emails? Listen to Trump Jr's own story about the meeting? She wasn't a "representative" in the sense of an elected official, but she was talking to the campaign on behalf of the Russian government. The email chain even indicates that it was part of an ongoing campaign by the Russian government, not a one-off. According to Trump Jr's own story, she wanted to talk about Russian sanctions. The whole issue of Russian adoptions is about the sanctions.

    171. Re:Another round of nothing by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Even the "couple of criminal convictions" you mention have nothing to do with what you're talking about.

      Nothing to do with it? They were convicted of lying to the FBI when the FBI was investigating the Russian interference in the election. How does that have "nothing to do with" the Russian investigation in the election?

      I don't know if you're a paid shill, or just a misinformed loon who buys into every story from Fox and Friend or Infowars. If the latter, do a little research before commenting.

    172. Re:Another round of nothing by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Let me clarify. They don't have the capacity to help Russia "rig the election."

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  6. Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That means they can release it, and settle this in public once and for all right? Right?
    Oh, wait, it has to remain secret forever and we just have to take your word like with WMD in Iraq?
    Yeah, no thanks.
    With the Meuller investigation falling apart, dems refocusing on sexual assault allegations against Trump, I think this is pretty much bullshit until they release it.

    1. Re:Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "With the Meuller investigation falling apart"
      the only things falling apart with Mueller's investigation are the lies & omissions of Trump's underlings

    2. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure Ivan. Right after you ruskies release video of Su-35s chasing away F-22s. Hopefully not from Ace Combat...

    3. Re:Excelent by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >With the Meuller investigation falling apart

      There's no evidence that's happening, and in fact there is evidence to the contrary. Not much, though, because Mueller is being a professional about it all. Oh noes! Someone on his team thinks Trump's an idiot and got booted! Let me let you in on a secret: the vast majority of those who have taken notice of Trump think he's an idiot. It'd be surprising if there weren't people on Mueller's team of the same opinion. (Though it's sad they were unprofessional enough to go on about it in a recorded medium).

      >dems refocusing on sexual assault allegations against Trump,

      Much like rabid Republicans, they're jumping to whatever is currently in the public eye and looks like it'll work. This is surprising how?

      > I think this is pretty much bullshit until they release it.

      Much like Trump's claims of wealth and his denial of Russian connections. Bullshit until it's backed up by documentation.

      And honestly, there's not a person in the world with less credibility than Trump when it comes to the truth, so by default I'd logically have to accept almost anyone else's word over his until proof is provided.

    4. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact is that Peter Strzok is now proven through released texts with Lisa Page to have conspired to overthrow a sitting president in the event that Hillary Clinton lost the election.

      Personally I didn't think there was anyone worthy of the presidency that was on the ballot this year and that all political parties are vehicles for forced groupthink, but the actions of the HRC supporters are utterly inexcusable. Now that Mueller has hidden the reasons for Strzok's dismissal for three months, the fact that he himself admitted to partisanship when he admitted he and others on his team were happy Trump's immigration ban was stayed in the 9th Circuit, and the fact that the Russia story was concocted by Fusion GPS in conjunction with operatives from the DNC, the entire investigation needs to be restarted and Mueller's special prosecutor status terminated. The doctrine of fruit of the poison tree alone makes this Russia investigation null and void, but the Strzok and company actions need to be investigated as seditious acts.

      One last thing - the use of the word "hacked" in the context of the election is getting out of hand now. What does this exactly mean? Hacking voting machines? Hacking politicians to pieces? The hacking cough of HRC? This is a classic example of the mainstream media oversimplifying a supposed issue to generate rage and support for a position falsely.

    5. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The order of events is important. Mueller appointed two subordinates to his team, then he discovered they were having an affair while texting to each other on burner phones about how much they hate Trump. Then he quietly reassigned them, saying they were rotating out because of an expired assignment term.

      Meanwhile the FBI was sued for information on the Clinton Email Server coverup, and the very guy who edited "gross negligence" out was this guy texting. That's how we know about the texts, not because Mueller was being transparent.

    6. Re:Excelent by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Poor A/C, the truth will set you free.

    7. Re: Excelent by guruevi · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Mueller has been at it for almost a year now and besides some sound bites and headlines on CNN nothing truly significant has come out yet. Heâ(TM)s wasting time, trying to keep his job afloat. When heâ(TM)s done his career will be over and he knows it.

      --
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    8. Re:Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "With the Meuller investigation falling apart"
      the only things falling apart with Mueller's investigation are the lies & omissions of Trump's underlings

      Notice that recently, whenever anyone involved in the Mueller investigation has to testify to Congress, the DoJ Inspector General releases something that actually demonstrates that person's bias in favor of Democrats?

      Like Strzok's text messages? Strzok didn't get removed from Mueller's investigation last summer and assigned to duties where he has no access at all to criminal or intelligence work because of some personal text messages.

      Note that same DoJ Inspector General has already been charged with investigating politicization and corruption in the FBI...

    9. Re: Excelent by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >Mueller has been at it for almost a year now and besides some sound bites and headlines on CNN nothing truly significant has come out yet.

      Didn't Watergate take a couple of years before Nixon resigned?

      I think you vastly underestimate the time requirements of a properly executed investigation of a sitting president.

      >He's wasting time, trying to keep his job afloat. When he's done his career will be over and he knows it.

      That sounds like what you hope to be true, but Mueller's professional reputation will be affected by how well his team follows the rules for such investigations.

    10. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mueller has been at it for almost a year now

      It takes time to do it right. The Nixon investigation took years, but in the end the evidence was clear. Just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean there isn't evidence. There may well be a mountain of it.

    11. Re:Excelent by butzwonker · · Score: 1

      Where I live (far away from the US in Europe), absolutely everybody I've ever talked to about Trump thinks that he's an idiot. I haven't come across a single exceptions. If there are Trump supporters where I live, they must be hiding very well. People agree so much about this that I occasionally found myself in the odd position of defending Trump a little bit during his campaign, but I've stopped doing that after he got elected and regret it now.

    12. Re:Excelent by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >Where I live (far away from the US in Europe), absolutely everybody I've ever talked to about Trump thinks that he's an idiot.

      Must be a distance thing. I'm in Canada and there are definitely a few people here who think he's OK (though with a lot of excuses, mainly for his tweets). Not enough to get him elected dog catcher, but there are fans.

    13. Re: Excelent by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Didn't Watergate take a couple of years before Nixon resigned?

      It took a couple years because they didn't get the "smoking gun" tapes until 2 years after the event happened. Once they had those, iirc he stepped down a month or two later.

      Even without those tapes he would most likely have been impeached, but the evidence against him up until that point was much weaker.

    14. Re:Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that why half his team has been fired for conflicts of interest?

    15. Re: Excelent by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Actually the texts are from their government phones. The texts referenced burner phones, but we haven't seen what was discussed on those.

    16. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Mueller has been at it for almost a year now and besides some sound bites and headlines on CNN nothing truly significant has come out yet.

      Didn't Watergate take a couple of years before Nixon resigned?

      ...

      Nope.

      The Watergate break-in itself was tied to Nixon in mere hours.

      Mueller's up into how many THOUSANDS of hours with nothing to show for it but a few guys who either broke foreign agent registration laws long ago (Manafort), or stupidly fell into a perjury trap unrelated to anything (Flynn).

      Flynn being charged with perjury is a sign that Mueller has NOTHING. You can't charge someone you want to be any type of witness with perjury - saying YOU LIED!!! kinda destroys that person's credibility.

    17. Re:Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've only met one Trump supporter so far in a Caribbean country, a wealthy old white man who liked Kasich best, but thinks Trump was a better choice than Hillary. To everyone else, Trump is something between a laughingstock and a villain. Mind you, that was around election time, that guy might've changed his mind by now...

    18. Re:Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That means they can release it, and settle this in public once and for all right? Right? Oh, wait, it has to remain secret forever and we just have to take your word like with WMD in Iraq? Yeah, no thanks. With the Meuller investigation falling apart, dems refocusing on sexual assault allegations against Trump, I think this is pretty much bullshit until they release it.

      Please cite one instance of evidence in an ongoing investigation being released to the public in an official way. Go ahead, I'll wait...

      Right, you can't, because that's not the way it works. If you don't understand that, you are dumber than you sound.

    19. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mueller has been at it for almost a year now and besides some sound bites and headlines on CNN nothing truly significant has come out yet. Heâ(TM)s wasting time, trying to keep his job afloat. When heâ(TM)s done his career will be over and he knows it.

      Do you even know how investigations work? They hold all evidence until they are ready to indict. And even then it will not all be immediately made public. You act like Mueller is supposed to be sending daily memos to the press on his progress.

      You'll see the evidence when the investigation is done. It might take a while. So relax.

    20. Re:Excelent by e3m4n · · Score: 4, Informative

      the fact that we learned that the HRC team contributed to the campaign of an FBI deputy directors wife, to escape indictment; and another special prosecutor's wife works for Fusion GPS, the same wife who provided this 'dirt dossier' to the FBI, to her husband, the same person who spearheaded the wire tap in trump tower. (remember back in may when you insisted that trump was making that part up about an illegal wire tap?)

      Here is why his investigation is struggling:

      Peter Strzok - dismissed for bias and losing objectivity. This was more than saying something negative in a text, his entire career just got sacked to a shitty desk job in human resources. This wasnt a small thing, according to Meuller.

      Buce Ohr - we learned that he met with Fusion GPS many times during the campaign, and his wife WORKS for fusionGPS and was part of the anti-trump dossier

      Andrew McCabe - Deputy FBI Director and husband to Jill McCabe, while running for a Senate seat, received $467,000 in contributions from Terry McAuliff right around the time that her husband, Andrew, edited the words 'grossly negligent' to 'extremely careless' in Comey's statement, because 'grossly negligent' is the precise words in the law that would have triggered an indictment.

      now stand back and look at this objectively... if HRC had won, and this same investigation was underway trying to impeach her, and you have all these examples of the investigation team being packed with hillary haters... so she screams VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY at the top of her lungs again... would you consider the fact that the prosecution would have a hard time moving anywhere with this?

      You do understand impeachment right? Simple majority of the House has to vote for impeachment and 75% of the Senate has to vote to remove him. With all this 'reasonable' doubt and allegations of bias flying around, its never ever ever going to cross the 75% threshold and most of the senate republicans do not even like the guy.

    21. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wrong guy.. the guy that edited out 'gross negligence' was the other guy on his team whose wife received $497,000 from Terry McAuliff (HRCs campaing guy) right around the time he was *cough* bribed *cough* to alter that letter. And dont forget about the third guy whose wife WORKS for FusionGPS, tasked with all the anti-trump digging.

    22. Re: Excelent by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      Why would you expect to hear everything he has found before he is ready to press charges? Why would you expect it to be a quick slap dash affair to (potentially) gather evidence of treason? Maybe he's only cheated on his taxes and everything else is "fine" but surely the subject of his investigation warrants caution? Unseating an elected official shouldn't be easy, even if he's a turd.

    23. Re: Excelent by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Hacking? It's just the word of the day...

      For the last 12 moths it's been "Collusion".. I'm good with the change because it means they cannot keep the pretense going any more so they changed terms..

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    24. Re: Excelent by guruevi · · Score: 0

      Because that's what they promised, the evidence was clear (according to CNN and Mueller), the witnesses were there. As a prosecutor, you know that as time progresses witnesses will become less likely to appear and recollections of events will get foggier. You don't sit on the evidence of a murderer for 2 years before indiction, you gather evidence and witnesses, indict, then build your case in court, also the reason why court cases take months or even years, because you build your case as you progress and the defense tries to break down your case.

      If you have neither evidence or witnesses in the first couple of hours/days/weeks, regardless of what you think is "out there", you're no longer investigating as much as you are on a fishing expedition.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    25. Re: Excelent by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The Nixon investigation took days after Watergate. Sure there was an investigation going nowhere far but unless they have evidence and witnesses, they won't indict, once a prosecutor has those, he will (or should) immediately send to the court and file the paperwork.

      If you have all the evidence and witnesses and you're just waiting on your hands to get a "better" witness, you risk the entire case.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    26. Re: Excelent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Nixon investigation took days after Watergate.

      Days? Here's the timeline.
      It takes a long time to build a good case. Especially when you're working your way up the chain.

  7. I have a copy too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Step 1: Subvert the dumbest man in America

    1. Re:I have a copy too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leave Don Lemon out of this!

    2. Re:I have a copy too! by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 1

      Wrong Don...

  8. Cool... by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" I want to SEE it. Not hear about it. I can hear lies from ALL directions. SHOW ME THE TRUTH!

    1. Re:Cool... by gtall · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      They won't publish because it would reveal how they got that information. They aren't going to advertise how the Kremlin leaks. Now go back and learn about how to do foreign intelligence.

    2. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are supposed to trust "TheDailyBeast"? Might as well be National Enquirer

    3. Re:Cool... by houghi · · Score: 5, Funny

      YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

      Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with power. Who's gonna do it? You? You, #4687763? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Net Neutrality and you curse the TSA. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that Net Neutralities death, while tragic, probably saved money.

      And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves money (for a few companies)*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that firewall. You need me on that firewall. We use words like hacking, code, money. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a computer and stand a post.

      Either way, I don't give a *damn* what you think you are entitled to!

      --Somebody-in-the-know

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    4. Re:Cool... by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thats what redaction is for...

    5. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, well fuck that. They were 100% sure there were WMD in Iraq too.
      As GWB would say:
      fool me once, shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again

    6. Re:Cool... by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Lets hope the current president doesn't see that movie.

    7. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how would you know anything was the truth unless you believe it is?

    8. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is probably the best post I have ever seen on /.

    9. Re:Cool... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      But the Russian moles within our TLAs already gave them that info...

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    10. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're just asking the CIA to manufacture evidence and "truth" for you, which is what they've been specializing in for several decades. If it comes from the CIA and directed to convince the public of something, then it must simply be a lie.

    11. Re:Cool... by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" I want to SEE it. Not hear about it. I can hear lies from ALL directions. SHOW ME THE TRUTH!

      Exactly.. I'd settle for a transcript of the intercept myself.. Not that some intercept transcript means much at this point. There have been SO many invented things reported about this now that turned out to be false that I'm pretty skeptical every time something new pops up.

      What we have now isn't even hearsay. It's basically somebody saying that somebody else heard a third person say something. But you can bet we have a federal case now!

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    12. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, if they published it, it would probably show that they were VASTLY exaggerating what was in the evidence. Hence a double whammy -- shows how they got it, and proves they are liars. The chances that an order from Putin would leak or be intercepted are very slim, as slim as Slenderman.

    13. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Walls have functions, however they're not all positive. The insecurities that exist are not being reasonably met with current funding (whether unclass or class). Unless you have some sort of legal disclosure, you're not going to have the public knowledge and support level high enough to justify the actual amount of resources to solve the issues (not just band-aids upon band-aids)

      I am uncertain of how you claim anti net-neutrality figures into security in a positive way. If anything, nation state information operations may actually hurt security posture in the US if MISO is directed against ISP's network services decisions. Lets be honest, the middle and upper management in an ISP isn't probably skilled as a whole on resisting deliberate influence operations upon their decisions...

      --Somebody-else-in-the-know

    14. Re:Cool... by shanen · · Score: 1

      If #4687763 is the real Steve Jackson, then this could be a rather deeper comment than it appears. Still not seeing the joke, but at least the "funny" mods don't appear to be from obvious trolls.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    15. Re:Cool... by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      If #4687763 is the real Steve Jackson, then this could be a rather deeper comment than it appears. Still not seeing the joke, but at least the "funny" mods don't appear to be from obvious trolls.

      It's a parody phrasing of Jack Nicholson's speech in A Few Good Men.

    16. Re:Cool... by shanen · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the clarification of the source, though I'm not sure it changes the "deeper" part of my comment. I haven't seen the movie, but I rarely do. Now I'm wondering if I should look for a book version...

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    17. Re: Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's treason dude.

    18. Re:Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide,

      "specie is the only constitutional money in this country", www.dict.org, "specie", bouviers law dictionary 1856

      EPIC FAIL.

      you likely are halfway jesting, halfway not, but citation needed for this "freedom" you provide.

  9. So... the US hacked the Russians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So the U.S. hacked Russian communications?

  10. So, what specifically were Putin's instructions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there any evidence that Putin ordered his resources to back President Trump? If so, we have a real problem. Even more damaging, the defenders who are screaming that we have no evidence lost that argument and this would seemingly indicate that tapping of Trump's communications was not only legal but warranted.

  11. Re:But, but, but, ... but her emails! by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

    Don't forget the uranium. And the Russians.

    Just forget the part about those things already being looked into and dismissed.

  12. Unbelievable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Somehow we are expected to believe that Putin was conspiring with Trump to get him elected at the exact same time he was working with Hillary to prevent him from getting elected. And the Democrats that were screaming for Comey to be fired for months are suddenly outraged when Trump does what they asked for. *And* somehow the CIA and FBI are chock full of integrity at the same time they are hiring spouses to build fake reports to damage Trump and switching to use HAM radios to avoid being recorded. *And* Clapper, who lied under oath to congress is suddenly trustworthy. Is the American memory really that bad?

    1. Re:Unbelievable... by LifesABeach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, the public record shows that Putin is playing Trump like a banjo.

    2. Re: Unbelievable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop paying attention and go back to watching/protesting the NFL.

    3. Re:Unbelievable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's even worse.

    4. Re:Unbelievable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually shows nothing of the kind. Just a DC rats nest that needs cleaning out, and a media willing to print any lie from asshole bureaucrats because their girl lost.

      Also - who in the fuck would ever believe a word out of Clapper's mouth given his proven lying to Congress. Which is the actual public record.

    5. Re:Unbelievable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it collusion if one party doesn't even understand it's happening?

    6. Re:Unbelievable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it is the other way around.
      Do you forget Trump was the one that bombed Syria that was carrying out the chemical attacks.

    7. Re:Unbelievable... by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Yes.

    8. Re:Unbelievable... by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I haven't.

  13. Re:But, but, but, ... but her emails! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, just forget about the people who dismissed them being avid Clintonites, so much so that they had to be fired from the subsequent Mueller investigation. Forget about the fact that they sent text messages saying that even if Trump was elected they could use a special prosecutor as an insurance plan against him.

  14. Russia, Russia, Russia! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Curious Slashdot only wants to tell one side of the story.

    Why no posts about Peter Strzok who worked on the Russian investigation AND Hillary's email server investigation who's leaked texts indicate he wanted to take Trump down even BEFORE he was elected!

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/13/fbi-officials-discussed-insurance-policy-against-trump-presidency/

    1. Re:Russia, Russia, Russia! by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Strzok doesn't use Linux, and can't spell his name.

  15. Yea, Right, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-14/new-russian-hacker-claims-putin-ordered-theft-clintons-email-after-first-one-refused

  16. I changed my vote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad they finally found the smoking gun.

    I know those ads on facebook made me change my vote!

    But I'm curious, why did Hillary give them all our Uranium yet Putin wanted Trump to win? And why didn't China do anything?

    For such a big story there's no information other than Russia = Evil and the election got hacked. I'm sure us Slashdotters who understand technology surely understand what that means.

  17. LOL, just like they "found" WMD. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not saying Putin and the FSB aren't complete pieces of shit.

    I'm just saying if you out-Stalin Stalin, and trying to make people forget that, maybe you should not point at a dog and yell "Hitler!".

    They *wish* they were as evil and psychopathic as you.
    Be a good role model, would ya?

  18. It's an act of war, and the US did nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or to be more accurate, there were several firm phone calls.
    The could have responded in kind, with attacks on Russian assets, or possibly financial attacks on assets close to Putin. There is no need to take credit, just leave thick hints and just a shred of plausible deniability.

    1. Re:It's an act of war, and the US did nothing by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't mind if the US worked to influence Russian elections and get Putin voted out. Turnabout is fair play, right? Hanging onto power for forever minus a day is what Putin cares about most, and he's willing to tear Western society apart from the inside to help achieve that goal. I think he's a more dangerous character than Kim Jong Un at this point.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:It's an act of war, and the US did nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, USA is worst than Russia. No evidence of collusion and yet here we see more Americans talking about attacking Russia. USA is the evil country!

  19. Haven't we heard this before? by Charcharodon · · Score: 5, Interesting
    At this point I hardly believe anything they say.

    There is the simple fact that even if the DNC and Hillary were hacked by the Russians, which evidence shows that it was mostly leaked data by their own people, they were acting in a criminal manner to rig the nomination process and to burn Trump with made with a made up dossier .

    I for one do not care how the information came out. The fact that it came out was good enough for me. I actually hope hackers all over the world do this every election. Break in to both sides as show where all the bodies are buried. Maybe then we can end some of the corruption that plagues governments.

    1. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      So you will be happy when someone leak's Trumps tax returns, right?

      In fact, you must be lamenting that they didn't make more effort to hack Trump's campaign (I wonder why) because you could have saved a lot of hassle with all the dodgy dealings that are only coming out now.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2, Informative

      >they were acting in a criminal manner to rig the nomination process

      The party was in a financial mess, and Team Hillary essentially bought the debt and the right to have significant control of the party with it. Not illegal in the slightest, 'just' slightly unethical in that it was not traditionally how things were done.

      Also, as it turns out, a giant mistake because Hillary was not actually a viable candidate.

      > and to burn Trump with made with a made up dossier .

      Nope. You know that dossier was first commissioned by Republicans, right? And then shopped to the Democrats after Trump secured the Republican nomination? It's standard opposition research. They even do it to themselves to see where they're vulnerable.

      Oh, and it's not made up. Some of it is of questionable reliability, but that's what happens when you go looking for dirt - sometimes you get bad leads. It was put together by a former British intelligence agent, and recently another one gave public comment to the effect that it was actually credible.

      So while I'd question the bits about the hookers and watersports, I wouldn't throw the whole report in the garbage. There's stuff in there worth investigating, ESPECIALLY when Trump calls it 'fake news'. With Trump, that's code for, 'could be bad for me'.

    3. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is the simple fact that even if the DNC and Hillary were hacked by the Russians, which evidence shows that it was mostly leaked data by their own people, they were acting in a criminal manner to rig the nomination process and to burn Trump with made with a made up dossier.

      The phrase "election hacking" is now and forever associated with the image of Trump working with the Russians to steal the election. Doesn't matter if it's true or not.

      Absolutely BRILLIANT persuasion by the DNC.

      I still can't believe Sanders supporters didn't riot at the DNC headquarters demanding Hillary's head on a platter. Instead they lined up to vote for her. That's how well their plan worked. Absolutely brilliant.

    4. Re: Haven't we heard this before? by Bartles · · Score: 1

      You still believe republicans originally commissioned the dossier? We've known that not the case for several months now. Please tell us how fake news is not a thing.

    5. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The dossier was NOT "first commissioned by Republicans". Christopher Steele was not hired by Fusion GPS until AFTER the Republicans in question stopped paying Fusion GPS for opposition research on Donald Trump and the Clinton Campaign/DNC started paying Fusion GPS for it. Which makes it seem as if the opposition research which Fusion GPS was able to obtain using techniques which the Republicans who hired them would sanction was considered to be of no value by the Democrats who thus wanted something more salacious.

      The interesting thing is that, in order to compile the "Steele dossier," cooperation was sought from members of the Russian government. In other words, it was the Hillary Clinton campaign which colluded with the Russian government to "hack" the election.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    6. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be fine if someone had exposed both sides. But that's not the world we live in. We live in a world where a state actor exposes ONE side's dirty secrets while leaving the other unscathed on purpose. People try to point that out and show that both sides have dirty secrets and what's their reward? They get shouted down by others claiming they are fabricating fake stories to undermine the obvious political legitimacy of the side that didn't have a state actor exposing their secrets.

      I'm ok with equal opportunity exposure of secrets and hypocrisy. I'm not ok with doing it to one party while ignoring another.

    7. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      So you will be happy when someone leak's Trumps tax returns, right?

      There is a massive bombshell hiding in Trump's tax returns that he is absolutely terrified of the world seeing...I'll need lots of popcorn for that day!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    8. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      >The dossier was NOT "first commissioned by Republicans". Christopher Steele was not hired by Fusion GPS until AFTER the Republicans in question stopped paying Fusion GPS for opposition research on Donald Trump

      So it was, in fact, first paid for by Republicans.

    9. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you will be happy when someone leak's Trumps tax returns, right?

      In fact, you must be lamenting that they didn't make more effort to hack Trump's campaign (I wonder why) because you could have saved a lot of hassle with all the dodgy dealings that are only coming out now.

      Tax returns are sent to the IRS, and in general, the IRS will spend more effort reviewing returns of entities with higher cash flow(more incentive to cheat and higher ROI when found).
      If the IRS has accepted them, then there is unlikely to be anything criminal in them.
      There have been some tax returns that were found and released. Nothing criminal, but lots of talking points to try and persuade people making below the median wage that he did something wrong when he utilized parts of the tax that that they have never thought about.

      I would be surprised if Obama had not had the IRS go over Trump's returns with a fine toothed comb when he entered the race, and if they did not find anything then, the only thing to be found now are talking point for the sake of trying to make people think he some how violated the law by following parts of the law that do not apply to most people.

    10. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by NoobyNoobyDoo · · Score: 1

      No, the dossier was not paid for by Republicans.

      The Washington Free Beacon paid Fusion GPS for research on Republican candidates, not just Trump. That effort ended before Steele started working for Fusion and produced his Dossier. There is nothing that shows that Steele's dossier work was anything other than independent of the previous WFB work.

    11. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      The party was in a financial mess, and Team Hillary essentially bought the debt and the right to have significant control of the party with it. Not illegal in the slightest, 'just' slightly unethical in that it was not traditionally how things were done.

      Hillary bought the Democrats. Interesting to see you openly admit that. I wonder if in the future we can expect more people to just buy parties that openly. Imagine the rage if Trump had bought the R party just as casually as you admit that Hillary bought the D party. I think US 2.0 (ie after the crash and reboot) is closer than I had thought.

    12. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess in the same way that the Bonneville Power Administration paid Bill Gates to write Microsoft Basic, or McDonald's paid for the creation of Amazon, as in, no it was not paid for by Republicans.

      The Washington Free Beacon paid Fusion GPS to do opposition research on Donald Trump, along with other Republican candidates. When Donald trump clinched the Republican nomination, WFB discontinued their relationship with Fusion GPS. After WFB ended their relationship with Fusion GPS and stopped funding their opposition research, Fusion GPS was hired to do opposition research by the Hillary Clinton Campaign/DNC. Once Fusion GPS was hired by Hillary's Campaign, they hired Christopher Steele. Christopher Steele compiled the dossier. Since Christopher Steele was not working for Fusion GPS when the Republicans were paying Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele is the creator of the dossier it is disingenuous, and wrong, to say that Republicans first paid for the dossier.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    13. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      That propaganda thinking might work on the internet, but Slashdotters know enough to understand that one doesn't magically hack both parties simultaneously. Plus, Trump came relatively out of nowhere, meaning that there is far less of a window for hacking him, and less of a paper trail for misdeeds.

      The Clinton campaign fucked up royally, and that's why we have Trump.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    14. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, democrats vying for political advantage are evil incarnate, but Republicans lying constantly and getting favors from hostile governments is ok.

    15. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At this point I hardly believe anything they say.
      There is the simple fact that even if the DNC and Hillary were hacked by the Russians,

      Actually, can you cite the instance where Hillary's email servers were hacked by the Russians.... or by anybody?

      All the damage I remember was from the DNC hack. Everyone on the GOP side keeps saying how criminally insecure the Clinton private email server was, but the only email dumps I remember us getting from them were from other people's in or out boxes, not the server itself... after they were legally required to turn over all of the correspondence. Even if investigators recovered data from wiped server hard drives (did they?) that doesn't constitute hacking. Pretty lucky, I guess, for a criminally insecure high value target such as that.

    16. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the RNC did get hacked, Trump didn't but then again he didn't keep his servers in the shitter, but it turns out there wasn't a whole lot that was that interesting (illegal) unlike the DNC.

    17. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      You are mostly full of shit. The deal with Hillary was kept on the down low and were against the bylaws of the DNC. The rank and file were kept in the dark. If they had made the deal public the DNC would have lost most of its support, followed up by a lot of lawsuits and demands for their funds back.

      I give two shits about the RNC requesting opposition research. Much of the RNC needs to flushed down the same toilet as the DNC.

      The difference is how the DNC went about getting it and who they paid for it. Turns out again not of the sunny side of the legal line.

    18. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >At this point I hardly believe anything they say.

      Agreed.

      >There is the simple fact that even if the DNC and Hillary were hacked by the Russians,

      Putin thanks you for your service.

    19. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who gives a crap about who bought the first dossier (which, to this date, Fusion GPS refuses to release to the investigative committees).
      It was Killary who paid for the second dossier, it was Killary that hired the former Brit spy, and colluded with the Russians to obtain or create the new Trump "facts."

      Killary paid foreign intelligence operatives, paid the Russian officials, and paid her friends to rig the primary nomination. Ask who could "encourage" the FBI to take this "dossier" to the FISA court? Killary? Obummer?

    20. Re:Haven't we heard this before? by Gussington · · Score: 1

      I for one do not care how the information came out. The fact that it came out was good enough for me. I actually hope hackers all over the world do this every election. Break in to both sides as show where all the bodies are buried. Maybe then we can end some of the corruption that plagues governments.

      Well this is the problem isn't, they aren't doing it equally. Right now we have forces at work deliberately targeting divisive causes in an effort to upset our way of life.
      This is not an issue of red v blue, it is America and democracy under attack from foreign powers. And some people seem content to play along with that because it's in their own personal best interests.

  20. Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by bradley13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Exactly.

    The media has been pounding on the Russian drum for over a year now. So far, it's a big nothing-burger. A few alleged Facebook ads, not even a molecule in a drop in a bucket. Otherwise, endless allegations, but a stunning lack of actual proof.

    Really, it's like the media are trying to distract from something. Like, maybe, Trump isn't doing such a bad job after all?

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Like, maybe, Trump isn't doing such a bad job after all?

      Impossible. According to CNN he drinks way too much diet coke for that.

    2. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Like, maybe, Trump isn't doing such a bad job after all?"

      Yup, the rest of the world agrees with you 100%. Americans have had the run of the place since the 2nd world war, it's time for you to retreat, rest and... who cares, just go away.

      Or, you know, you could engage with the world like adults. We will be waiting for when you've had enough of your tantrum and ready to come back into the international community. It'll be obvious. Until then, we'll be over here... pass the popcorn

    3. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >big nothing-burger

      Except for the guilty pleas...

      You're in for a shock if you think this is all made up. Time will tell.

    4. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1, Informative

      Nothing burger? You should tell that to Michael Flynn, Peter Smith (oh...), George Papadopoulos, Donald Trump Jr., Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner.

      Considering some of them have already admitted their crimes, it's odd that you forgot to mention it in your summary.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Bartles · · Score: 2

      Which one of those people pled guilty to anything related to colluding with Russia to affect the election?

    6. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And he eats too much ice cream and he might be afraid of stairs per cnn.

      Now that is some mighty fine, but yellow, journalism right there.

    7. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      George Papadopoulos. Google it.

    8. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for things after the election....

      How is it an investigation of "Russia meddling in our election" if the only charges that are brought are for actions done after the election?

    9. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Gilgaron · · Score: 1, Insightful

      When you plea deal you don't plea guilty to the worst of the charges, otherwise why would you deal?

    10. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This is the problem by giving the Clinton's a free pass. It hurts your ability to look impartial in the future. So what's a Red state person to see - that Clinton skates free from *many* violations while R's get punished. Looks uneven and partisan. It stokes notions of the Deep State. It would be much cleaner to prosecute all who break the law, no exceptions. This is the reason why people distrust government.

    11. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Ok. Which of those people were charged with anything to do with colluding with Russia?

    12. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, it's like the media are trying to distract from something. Like, maybe, Trump isn't doing such a bad job after all?

      LOL, yeah, I'm sure that's it! Trump bypasses the media, via Twitter, to showcase what an dumbass he is. No media spin required.

    13. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by ScentCone · · Score: 0

      Except for the guilty pleas...

      Which are for acts that have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with "hacking the election" or "collusion" in the sense that the lefty media is so unhinged about pretending has happened. All that's really happening is that we're finding out that Hillary Clinton only avoided being indicted because partisan supporters in the FBI and DOJ decided to save her bacon for purely political reasons. And then she lost anyway, because she's an awful, unlikable person and was a terrible candidate, and the Dems still can't get over their terrible choice. So they've got people like you shilling for them, trying to pretend that an indictment for something that a guy did before there even WAS a Trump campaign, and which has nothing to do with the empty matter under investigation, is somehow proof of Trump working with the Russians to "hack the election." Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    14. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      When you plea deal you don't plea guilty to the worst of the charges

      And when you're a special counsel on a limitless witch hunt, you don't dole out a couple of lame indictments having nothing whatsoever to do with the "election hacking and collusion" you're theoretically investigating if you've actually got more. Multiple entities have been looking into this for over a year and have produced exactly zero evidence to support the phony narrative. Which you know.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    15. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guilty pleas mean nothing more than the US Justice system is screwed up. It means that they were offered a deal and took it rather than risk dealing with a federal trial, because federal trials are horribly biased against the defendants.

      What they don't mean is that there was any wrongdoing. So far there has been absolutely no evidence of any actual wrongdoing by anyone in the Trump administration or connected to the Trump administration. It's been over a year. If there was evidence, it would have leaked by now. It hasn't because there isn't.

    16. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A year from now the media will still be saying that the election has been hacked by the Russians. Last time that I checked, I had heard nothing from the Russians that hacked me into voting for Trump. My mother heard nothing from the Russians that hacked her into voting trump.

      Almost the entire office that I work in heard nothing from the Russians that hacked them into voting Trump.

      What all of us heard was the constant lies from Hillary own mouth and from her past work experience swayed all of us into thinking that she would be a horrible candidate. Plus the fact the air about her own personality that she deserved to be president left a horrible taste in our mouths that Scope(tm) couldn't clean out.

      Hillary is the reason why Hillary could never be president. It has nothing to do with the Russians. It would be much better if she would man up and admit that she lost the election because she was not a viable candidate and move on. But, she can't man up because she is... you know....

      And as much as the media is trying to hack our perception of Trump, he really isn't doing a bad of a job.

    17. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still a nothing burger.

    18. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by ScentCone · · Score: 0

      And it's one of the main reasons she lost the election. Which the Dems still can't get over, which has resulted in the increasingly unhinged nonsense we see going on. All the more interesting, now that we see how much partisan support for her inside Obama's DoJ directly involved working to make sure she stayed out of legal jeopardy specifically to make sure she'd win the election.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    19. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Clintons have never been given a free pass, that's brainwashed nonsense. Apart from the gazillion investigations that there have been in the past, there is now at least talk of a Special Prosecutor for Hillary Clinton's supposed misdeeds as well. This may have proceeded beyond just a proposal, I'm not sure. If in the current political climate this doesn't pan out it is because there is nothing to investigate.

      https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/house-republicans-call-for-a-second-special-counsel--to-investigate-clinton-comey-and-lynch.html

      I'll highly doubt such an investigation will come up with anything at all interesting, because I have never seen anything beyond tinfoil-level ranting on this, but that won't stop The Donald. Let's see.

    20. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      It is in fact standard procedure to proceed that way as you try to get people to flip on those above them in the hierarchy and then follow up on what they tell you.

    21. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Like, maybe, Trump isn't doing such a bad job after all?

      Impossible. According to CNN he drinks way too much diet coke for that.

      No, no, no.. It's the Two Scoops of Ice Cream when everybody else gets one and the rabid consumption of McDonalds... You need to actually WATCH CNN sir!

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    22. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by bobbied · · Score: 1

      George Papadopoulos. Google it.

      Nope, he only copped a plea for lying to the FBI. He CLAIMS he tried to arrange meetings with the Russians during the campaign, but he's not been charged or convicted for that.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    23. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by bobbied · · Score: 2

      When you plea deal you don't plea guilty to the worst of the charges, otherwise why would you deal?

      To get a the prosecution to ask the judge for a reduced sentence for your crimes.

      For example, you and a group of friends rob a bank. You use a gun so it's armed robbery for all, but they don't have enough evidence to charge everybody with conspiracy and the police cannot ID a number of people involved.

      You decide to give up your friends because the prosecutor says he will recommend a light sentence for you. You will be required to plea guilty to the whole thing in order to be seen as a credible witness. In return they promise a reduction of your sentence to time served and probation. YOU will plea to the whole set of crimes, not part of them, or the argument for the defense will be "You didn't charge him for doing the same thing, why are you charging my client?" Also they will impeach you as a witness.

      So a prosecutor doesn't reduce your charges, it damages his case, they reduce the punishment they ask the court to give you instead and get you to plea guilty for the whole lock stock and barrel because it bolsters their case.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    24. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Guilty pleas?
      You have Flynn, who supposedly lied to investigators. What lies did he tell? We don't know, because despite FBI requirements that interviews be taped, because lead agent Peter Strzok didn't make and records of that interview. We know that Flynn agreed to a very light sentence in exchange for a guilty plea, probably because the lesson of Scooter Libby.
      Of course, since the phone call with the Russians he supposedly lied about was completely 100% legal, and the FBI already had a perfect recording and transcript of it before interviewing him, I'm not sure what this is supposed to show. In fact, it's hard for anyone sensible to call this entire case anything but 'entrapment'... but TDS sufferers are hardly sensible.

      The only other charge I can think of is Paul Manafort, who hasn't pled yet. He is charged with tax evasion for not reporting his income back in the 00's when he was employed by the Podesta's lobbying firm. The same Podestas that are many decade friends of the Clintons and served in the Obama White House. Incidentally, those same Podestas are now facing the same charges as Manafort - are you going to claim this means that the Clinton and Obama campaigns and administrations were in league with Russia?

      There has not been a SINGLE charge related to the election. There hasn't even been a hint of a charge related to the election.

      On the other hand, we have discovered that Comey pre-judged the Clinton investigation to the point of writing an exonerating speech before a single interview had taken place. We've discovered that those interviews were performed by Peter Strzok, who again broke FBI regulations by not recording them.
      The same Peter Strzok also edited Comey's memo to be softer and more friendly to Clinton's false claims about her server.
      The same Peter Strzok who remained in office at the FBI as part of an "insurance policy" with Andrew McCabe and Lisa Page against Trump - a week or two before senior DoJ official Ohr convinced the FBI to pay money to Fusion GPS (where his wife worked) for the infamous absurd "Piss Dossier". We also know that Peter Strzok and Lisa Page were having an extra martial affair and texting about official business as well as their anti-Trump bigotry ("I went to a Walmart and I can smell the Trump voters") in violation of Federal records laws - as well as conflict of interest laws.

      We know that the Fusion GPS "Piss Dossier" was written by a man in direct contact of Russian government officials. We know that Fusion GPS was lobbying for repeal of Russian sanctions. We know that Fusion GPS employees arranged the meeting between Trump Jr and the Russian official, that the same employee met with the Russian before the meeting, and met with the Russian again right after the meeting - almost as if it was another arrange political dirty trick.

    25. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Your claim of a limitless witch hunt is pretty laughable. In other administrations, it might have been a little bit more so, but you ignore that the people pleading guilty are multimillionaires. They have plenty of resources to fight charges with, and would be able to tie this up in court for years if they wanted to. But no. They rolled over with their tail between their legs voluntarily.

      Anyone who isn't a hyper-delusional partisan can see that the only reason you do that is if you're saving your ass from something far, far worse. Nobody volunteers for a possible 5 years in federal prison. Especially not multimillionaires with plenty of resources to spend to defend themselves, and who are friendly with the president. I'm not sure there has been a time in history when someone had more of an advantage when facing federal charges than these folks had. And yet they plead out.

      So what could they have possibly done that is so bad that they would need to take a federal plea bargain which could result in them spending time in federal prison? Humm...since every one of them lied about connections to Russia, I wonder if that might be part of it. Was it about the election? Money laundering? Bribery and corruption? We'll find out soon enough, I suspect.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    26. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Pretty much. Pleading to the crime as a conspirator or accessory (knowledge but didn't report it) provides evidence proof of the crime occurring. A plea deal over perjury just sets Flynn up as a liar and non-credible witness. Mueller is nailing Flynn because he can and has the evidence for it, or he's lost his mind and is blackmailing Flynn with worse charges for him or his son on the hopes that Flynn might have other info to give up.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    27. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      The Clintons have never been given a free pass, that's brainwashed nonsense.

      I've known several people who had various levels of security clearance. Not a single one of them thinks that they wouldn't have been fired with clearance revoked (best case) to being behind bars (worst cast) for passing Top Secret type documents through regular channels and running their own server. Are you suggesting a peon could do the same thing and not get prosecuted? Here's a citation from a peon who did something *far* less and he got the book thrown at him: https://www.theguardian.com/us...

    28. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      We should prosecute the Clintons because they have so many fake allegations against them that it would appear not to be "impartial" to ignore them?

      All you're proving is that it's in the best interests to not merely lie about your opponent, but make stuff up about them for years on end. After a while, your supporters will see the lack of any progress proving any of the allegations as somehow proof your opponents are bad people.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    29. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a record setting number of pedos and human traffickers have gone to jail this year...

      even made hollywood toss a few of theirs out. thats all! no more to see here! we got rid of ours! yep! totally!

      The global pedo power gangs seems to be the real swamp being drained.

    30. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, apparently in early 2015, Don Trump Jr. had a private meeting with Bob Menendez, a Democratic Senator from NY. It turns out that one of Menedez's underage prostitutes was also servicing the Russian ambassador to Honduras. Putting this all together, Don Jr. has LITERALLY been associated with somebody with known ties to the Russian Government.
      Impeach Drupf!

    31. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      by your logic, the titanic would simply be a mysteriously missing ship. gee, where is it? its just...gone...no evidence, just a lot of hearsay and questionable accounts by obviously hysterical people with a grudge to bear cause they didnt get their money back from what was probably a cancelled trip. fake news, nothing burger.

      and dont get me started on World War 2. i dont see it. where is it? no proof.

    32. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      You can always tell when the news is hurting liberals' feelings, because they mark down any mention of it as trolling. Like clockwork! Perhaps they'll continue to make the same sorts of mistakes in that regard that cost them nearly a thousand legislative seats, most of the governorships, both houses of congress, the White House, the Supreme Court, and millions of two-time Obama voters who turned their backs on Clinton out of disgust.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    33. Re:Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      The media has been pounding on the Russian drum for over a year now. So far, it's a big nothing-burger.

      The FBI, CIA and NSA all say otherwise, but yeah let's just keep pretending it's all CNN's fault...

    34. Re: Publish them... SHOW us all this "Evidence" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      none becuase its Effect you n1gger.

  21. Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by DeplorableCodeMonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Turns out the entire FBI leadership was, and mostly still is, a rat's nest of opposition to him filled with unethical bureaucrats who think it's their right to have "insurance policies against the President" among other things.

    If this were happening in 2009, the Democrats would have been giving Obama--rightly--carte blanch to purge the entire agency's leadership above the level of GS15. It doesn't matter what you think of Trump or Obama. Neither of them were Hitler or Stalin or anything like that. The only proper response from the federal civil service to their every lawful order is "yes, sir." Anything else is insubordination; this is approaching mutiny.

    1. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      Sedition is the technical term for it, not mutiny.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    2. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a rats-nest of opposition to him because:

      1) FBI employees are people too and are entitled to their opinions and free speech

      2) he's a dangerous, undereducated authoritarian bullying FUCKWIT with limited powers of cognition and no intellectual curiosity

      Is there evidence that the FBI itself, collectively, is biased against him? No. Are they doing their job? Yes.

    3. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only proper response from the federal civil service to their every lawful order is "yes, sir." Anything else is insubordination; this is approaching mutiny.

      Idiots often confuse authority with lawfulness, and necessitate both insubordination, dissent, and revolution by their very conduct.

      The fact is, Obama should have held the agency accountable, because they went along with Bush's criminal orders. The rat's nest should have been purged by firing. He didn't, because that would have looked bad.

      Now Trump is meeting a check on his power, people who will hold him accountable for his idiocy. Who tell him how bad he looks.

      This is why he doesn't like them. He can't trust them to go along with his whims.

    4. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone with many years of government service we had this thing call "legal" order. I was not under any obligation ever to follow an illegal order and could refuse using the hundreds of thousands of documents, laws, legal standings, etc. It is quite easy to do and is not mutiny or sedition. Your ignorance of the law does not make your order any more legal.

    5. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree 100%. Clean house.

    6. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by jittles · · Score: 2

      It doesn't matter what you think of Trump or Obama. Neither of them were Hitler or Stalin or anything like that.

      The things that Trump posts on twitter make me think he's aspiring to become like Stalin. The guy doesn't think he should have any oversight whatsoever.

    7. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Jahoda · · Score: 1

      Man, I am truly sorry that your feelings are hurt about Donald Trump. I would be ashamed and angry if I supported him and was lied to as well. But this is a nation of laws, and the rule of law is what legitimizes government.

      . Got a news flash for ya sport: the president is not the director of the FBI, and criminals always hate the police.

    8. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, how are they supposed to be when they know Trump's campaign is riddled with Russian spies and moles? I presume they were hoping Trump would denounce this stuff and purge his own organization once he knew it. But, nope, Trump is more interested in loyalty to him than loyalty to the nation. (The man gave his family senior leadership positions -- the rest of us call that nepotism and it is quite bad.) And your last bit is total BS. The FBI is not the president's personal security apparatus and he is not a king. Their duty is to the law and country first. The current president is just the current president.

    9. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Trump disbands the FBI or reduces the power of the three-letter-agencies, I will count that as one of the best things a president has done in recent decades.

    10. Re:Wonder why he distrusts the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sedition is the technical term for it, not mutiny.

      except they are nowadays all corporations in commerce with "commercial paper", so "mutiny" is correct on the "sea of commerce"

      commerce is international, between nations.

      check "voter registration" and "state of x" constitutions sometime, compare to black's law dictionary "federal citizen"

      there literally are no "states" anymore. it has been "Mutiny" from top to bottom for a long time, only "federal citizens" nowadays.

  22. Nobody says that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    He continued and expanded W. Bush's policies so much, that we, outside of the usVSthem brainwashing call him Bush 3.0 (because W was 2.0).

    If you manage to look at the actual actions and results, it is one continous progress since at least Nixon. Parties don't mean fuck-all. Which is obvious, given that they are staffed with 100% lobbyists (which used to be a crime, treated as treason, punished with a maximum sentence).

    1. Re:Nobody says that. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      given that they are staffed with 100% lobbyists (which used to be a crime, treated as treason, punished with a maximum sentence).

      I'm curious. When was being a lobbyist treated as treason (a crime defined in the Constitution)?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:Nobody says that. by rgbatduke · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm curious. When was being a lobbyist treated as treason (a crime defined in the Constitution)?

      Quite the contrary:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      This is just one of the things that Madison, and the court, have gotten wrong. The forces do not, in fact, tend to balance out in time because Madison had no concept of the degree of accumulation of wealth that would occur over the next two centuries and how much this would lead to a small oligarchy controlling immense resources and correspondingly acting as a superselector for the actual private citizen's choices. Shockingly, the courts have even recognized corporations themselves as having many of the rights of private citizens, in particular the "right" to petition the government via lobbying. In this way, the entire concept of democracy (republican or not) is subverted, as in the actual constitution corporations are NOT recognized as political entities -- all political power ultimately devolves to we, the people, the citizen. A corporation is not a citizen, nor is it a democracy.

      Sadly, the only way we can get out of this at this point is EITHER having a congress that passes laws that muzzle lobbying -- personally I'd prohibit ALL lobbying, as the baby drowned long ago and all that is left is the sewer sludge swamp water of extremists on all sides, fueled by the oligarchs who maintain power as long as they keep wethepeople too distracted to care and too stupid to want to. Then we'd have to have a court that would actually consider the point that corporations are NOT citizens and do NOT have a right to "freedom of speech" -- only individual persons (owners or employees alike!) do, and only to the extent that they are willing to expend their own personal resources on it. OR we'd have to pass an amendment to the constitution specifically limiting the power of corporate entities to participate in or influence government decision making. Frankly I'd prefer the latter, but it will probably require the second American revolution to bring it about.

      In the meantime, much as I appreciate the sentiment that corporate lobbying SHOULD be, well, not "treason" but a pretty serious crime, the lobbying part per se is the tip of the iceberg. I could even live with it as long as the real problem is repaired.

      That is the simple fact illustrated here: https://www.opensecrets.org/ne...
      and here: https://www.opensecrets.org/ne...

      Scroll down to the graphic detailing PAC contributions. To put that graphic in perspective, one has to look at the numbers:
      https://www.opensecrets.org/or...
      and
      https://www.theverge.com/2017/...

      Opensecrets (among other places) follows this all the way down to the following brutal fact. It costs an average of around 11 million dollars to run for the Senate. It costs almost 2 million dollars to run for the House. It costs well over 100 million dollars to run for President. Actual donations from private citizens making less than $200,000/year constitute about 6 or 7 PERCENT of this. Well over 90% of the cost of running for office comes not from We, The People, but from corporations, filtered through PACs and the parties themselves, and those corporations are controlled by a tiny handful of the world's wealthiest people.

      Nothing illustrates the corruption more clearly than the fact that many -- arguably most -- of the PACs contribute roughly equal amounts to Republicans AND Democrats running against each other. They don't care who wins, regardless of their stated position on whatever "issue" the PAC is supposed to give a shit about.

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    3. Re:Nobody says that. by sexconker · · Score: 2

      In the meantime, much as I appreciate the sentiment that corporate lobbying SHOULD be, well, not "treason" but a pretty serious crime, the lobbying part per se is the tip of the iceberg. I could even live with it as long as the real problem is repaired.

      Accepting money, property, or favors either directly or indirectly (e.g., "campaign contributions", "donations" to foundations, etc.) in exchange for influence betrays the office and is thus inherently in opposition to a representative government. Do it at a thus level (congress) and it's counter to the design and law of the nation, and I consider anyone engaging in this practice (on either end of the transaction) to be a traitorous enemy of the state. If you don't, you're part of the problem.

    4. Re:Nobody says that. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      I have no clue how "federal" turned into "thus".

    5. Re:Nobody says that. by slshdtisctrldbysjws · · Score: 0

      Then factor in the layer below, the banking layer, that controls the the fortunes of those billionaires, that gave them permission to become rich and successful and who can use the majority of them to eliminate any one of them that steps out of line.

      --
      My karma was manually wiped by site staff https://slashdot.org/~slshdtisctrldbysjws 18 mod up, 10 mod down = bad karma
    6. Re:Nobody says that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Madison wasn't "wrong." The constitution as written did not survive past 1912; it didn't even survive past the civil war.

      People all the time say "the constitution didn't foresee blah blah blah." What we have now isn't the constitution any more.

      The house of representatives, to achieve equal representation to what the founders had in mind, would have to have 100,000 members today. Try lobbying that and see how it would go.

    7. Re: Nobody says that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...] I consider anyone engaging in this practice [...] to be a traitorous enemy of the state.

      If you truly believe this, what are you going to do? Take up arms against the traitors, or bitch on slashdot?

    8. Re: Nobody says that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The house of representatives, to achieve equal representation to what the founders had in mind, would have to have 100,000 members today.

      That'd be like Star Wars! Except without the aliens, of course.

    9. Re:Nobody says that. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      I consider anyone engaging in this practice (on either end of the transaction) to be a traitorous enemy of the state. If you don't, you're part of the problem.

      Sorry. "Traitor" is defined in the Constitution. Pretty specifically. And giving/receiving money in exchange for favours isn't part of that definition.

      If you want to get the Constitution changed to reflect your (rather extreme) views, go for it. Till then, let's just go with the Constitution....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re:Nobody says that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      given that they are staffed with 100% lobbyists (which used to be a crime, treated as treason, punished with a maximum sentence).

      I'm curious. When was being a lobbyist treated as treason (a crime defined in the Constitution)?

      The constitution restricts treason to ..."levying War against them [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort".

      However if you acted as a foreign agent without registering as such and then worked towards goals contrary to the interests of the United States you'd probably get something ranging from the 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts or the Espionage Act of 1917 to RICO, money laundering and bribery charges thrown at you. Mind you some of that would probably still happen even if you registered as foreign agent before you collaborated in the fixing of elections and/or plotted to kidnap people resident in the US on behalf of a foreign government. Whether the label matters is up to you, the length and quality of time you'll be doing in f*** you in the a** jail would be the more or less the same.

    11. Re:Nobody says that. by RatchetDriver · · Score: 1

      I think he/she means staffing your party with lobbyists is a crime. Which obviously it is, since you should only staff your party with someone to serve drinks...

      --
      Nothing to see here. Move along.
    12. Re:Nobody says that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Accepting money, property, or favors either directly or indirectly (e.g., "campaign contributions", "donations" to foundations, etc.) in exchange for influence

      silly sexconker.

      "specie is the only constitutional money in this country", "specie" www.dict.org, bouviers law dictionary, 1856

      it is more like they bribe people with the "Credit of the nation". that is FRNs that are "legal tender" at present.

      if anyone got bribes of actual money that would be a ~20x improvement (for silver dollars)...it's worse than that. they literally bribe them with the "credit of the nation"

      it is more like the "banks" have stolen everyone's credit, and they use that to "lobby". kind of like robbing someone, then using the stolen goods to hire a hit man to take them out.

    13. Re:Nobody says that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have lobbyists, then your democracy is stuffed. In a democracy, the right way to influence government is to appeal to the voters. Besides locking out lobbyists, you also need to limit campaign spending and require full transparency on donation (that includes requiring thinktanks that make contributions to show their sources).

  23. Yeah right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The second in charge of the FBI was texting about anti trump insurance policies during the election. Clearly we can not believe anything FBI and CIA say.

  24. Newaflash: Real Americans are "Ivans" now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also: It's 1965 again.

    Moron. At least do you job right, if the CIA is paying you.

    Besides, backwater town Slavs and US rednecks are basically one of a kind from my western European perspective.
    They might be primitive, but they are a lot of fun. I could never again hate them, now that we have the Internet, and a constant stream of videos showing that matter where you go, people are just normal people, like us.

    The only exception, and with evidence, are the psychopaths that rule all of them/us.

    And your behavior is PRECISELY why that keeps being the case. They brainwash people into hating people they never met.

    I don't hate you. Despite your comment, I am confident that you are actually a pretty nice guy. Can you do the same?

  25. Typical WP - lots of words little substance by zerofoo · · Score: 1, Troll

    If you can stomach it, read the Washington Post article. It's filled with page after page of "he said she said".

    Not one shred of evidence. I'm sure Russia, and every other country, has a preferred outcome in mind with regard to all foreign elections, but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that ANY country manipulated our vote count in any way.

    Up to this point it still appears that Russia bought some ads to try to sway the vote. There is no evidence that they hacked any voting machines. There appears to be no evidence of the Russians hacking anyone's email either.
     

    1. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Baron_Yam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Up to this point it still appears that Russia bought some ads to try to sway the vote.

      Well... more than that. There's also the bot net deployed to make certain opinions look vastly more popular than they were.

      But how upset are you supposed to get about that when your own country has a history of funding outright revolutions and installing puppet regimes?

      >There is no evidence that they hacked any voting machines.

      I really don't understand why Americans tolerate their current voting system. Computer-tallied paper ballots and pencils with ballot boxes and any manual counting observed by the candidate's representatives is pretty solid.

      Computer kiosks with known flaws, with the electronic records purged ASAP looks an awful lot like the dream system of someone who wants to generate whatever result they like and should offend (and terrify) the average voter.

    2. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really don't understand why Americans tolerate their current voting system. Computer-tallied paper ballots and pencils with ballot boxes and any manual counting observed by the candidate's representatives is pretty solid.

      The mechanism of the vote is handled locally. Where I live, it is hand-marked paper ballots and a scanner. Previously, I lived in an area with hand-punched punch-cards and a punch-card reader. I also lived in an area with a voting machine, printout, and ballot box.

      However, I tend to live in civilized areas, distant suburbs of major cities or even more rural.

    3. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Up to this point it still appears that Russia bought some ads to try to sway the vote. There is no evidence that they hacked any voting machines. There appears to be no evidence of the Russians hacking anyone's email either.

      You forgot the evidence that the Russian government cooperated with the Clinton Campaign in the compilation of the "Steele dossier".

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      There's also the bot net deployed to make certain opinions look vastly more popular than they were.

      Ahh, so that's the rage. The Russians were filling the role normally reserved for SJWs - trying to make certain opinions look vastly more popular than they were.

    5. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody seemed to complain when the digital voting records were purged immediately after Doug Jones' win. Considering the African-American turnout was higher for the special election than even Obama's presidential election, it might have been worth keeping the votes around. Then again "the right candidate" won, so let's not ask any questions.

    6. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You act like we have a choice in how to vote. The local government doesn't put it to a vote if we're going to use electronic machines or not, they just switch after getting a private handout from the machine's manufacturer. If we do vote against them for that, the next guy isn't going to spend an extra effort to switch back. His opponents well just say look at all the waste he's creating by throwing out new machines. He's wasting all your tax money! If the machines do get hacked, well they're the old model. Time to buy new ones! Most politicians are all about scratching company's backs so they'll get kickbacks. Doing things for the public good is mostly gone. They aren't openly corrupt like in some countries, but much of the government is rotten to the core. It's a "me and mine" attitude rather than a "what's best for everyone".

    7. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Well... more than that. There's also the bot net deployed to make certain opinions look vastly more popular than they were.

      >But how upset are you supposed to get about that when your own country has a history of funding outright revolutions and installing puppet regimes?

      Like the ones in Japan or West Germany after WWII, or are you referring to more current history like in Saudi Arabia and the Philippines after our recent election of a POTUS?

      Yeah, I get upset when our plans to advance American interests go awry like they did in Iraq. But I get more upset when other countries plans to advance their interests in America conflict with our interests.

    8. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Goetterdaemmerung · · Score: 2

      I really don't understand why Americans tolerate their current voting system. Computer-tallied paper ballots and pencils with ballot boxes and any manual counting observed by the candidate's representatives is pretty solid.

      Computer kiosks with known flaws, with the electronic records purged ASAP looks an awful lot like the dream system of someone who wants to generate whatever result they like and should offend (and terrify) the average voter.

      You are right. In my state it it still done on paper with optical scanners. The electronic voting machines are not ubiquitous in the USA.

      Best as I can determine the electronic voting machines without a paper trail is only done in the following 11 states: Virginia, Texas, Tennesee, South Carolina, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Louisiana, Kentucky, Indiana, Florida, and Delaware.

    9. Re:Typical WP - lots of words little substance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of Virginia uses scantron ballots, and those are kept for any recounts or investigations.

      While there *may* be some counties that use purely electronic voting machines, none of the counties in NoVa or other urban areas do.

  26. Evidence or STFU by richrz · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Can we move on? Hillary lost Trump won.

  27. Trump has been dancing with Putin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Trump has been dancing with putin. There's no evidence of it... but if you keep looking you can piece a story together that loosely fits that narrative.

    Trump has been colluding with russia. There's no evidence of it... but if you keep looking you can piece a story together that loosely fits that narrative.

    In either case, no illegal activity has taken place.

  28. Re:But, but, but, ... but her emails! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's not pay attention to those screaming about them being frenetic Trumpeters, so much so that they chanted in chorus with him when he screamed his mantra of "Locker her up" and forget about the fact that his own son was caught trying to consort with Russian Intelligence agencies and lying about it.

  29. Right - just believe everything you hear and read by zerofoo · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    So a "news" agency makes an outlandish claim and produces no evidence to support that claim and we are expected to simply believe it.

    My how Slashdot has fallen - this used to be a place for evidence based discussion. Now it's a sewing circle.

  30. PJMedia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, I don't trust the FBI. But PJMedia? Really?

  31. There will be more by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Funny

    Trump was too casual on this. And like this intelligence world is holding more. If Trump/pence loved America, they would simply step down and allow ryan to take over. Neither trump nor pence love America enough to do what is right. They are going to force America to release more which will only help Russia/China know how and where we monitor them.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:There will be more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyway and everywhere. Now they know.

    2. Re:There will be more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's Trump's specialty. He'll bring the ship and everyone on it down with him or you let him walk scot-free. Seven bankruptcies, look it up.

    3. Re:There will be more by shanen · · Score: 1

      Is there anything funny here? Or do some of the trolls (and their sock puppets) have mod points to burn?

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    4. Re:There will be more by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I already have a Chinese troll that is following me around the site.
      I am guessing that he modded me up because of that last line. Sadly, the more information that the intelligence world has to give out about Trump's dealings with Russia/China, the easier it is for them to figure out what is going on and where the sources are
      So, no, nothing funny about this. Trump/Pence are traitors and if they were the least bit American, they would step down rather than continue to disgrace the office and harm America/West the way they have.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    5. Re:There will be more by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      The frustrating part is that this would be easy enough to deal with if the site was willing to make a minor change.
      Rather than get rid of ACs, we posters/readers should be allowed to set a minimum read level of ACs vs norma posters.With that approach, I would simply leave the normal posters at 0, and set ACs at 1 or maybe even 2. Obviously, the moderators should not be seperated on named vs ACs.
      Oddly, the FAQ say no because they want us to read them. Yet, nearly all of the ACs are worthless and if they have value, a moderator will increase them to readability.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:There will be more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump/Pence/Windbourne are the perfect all Americans. Believe anything they hear on TV without even the idea of an independent thought entering their head. America is great every one else is bad. Windy's sockpuppets must have done it because he thinks it's funny.

    7. Re:There will be more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My name is Windbourne, and my anti-China rants are more important than an AC because I attached a fake name to my account.
      ----
      Fake_name_007

  32. Re:But, but, but, ... but her emails! by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    The ramblings of an A/C are usually caused by a lack calcium in their diet.

  33. Fake news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am American and the amount of fake news is lots today! Wondering now why no one talks about Hillary and how she murdered children to keep power? Tonsof proof of this and her DNC hacking which leaked from the Benghazi hearings!

  34. more bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    so where is that evidence?
    we want to see it...
    until then its just garbage

  35. Hack Election? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Please! What is that supposed to mean? Did they actually flip votes on the machines, or somehow forced people to vote Republican? This is tabloid press bullshit.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  36. Ha! by Badlight · · Score: 1

    ...and you can believe as much or as little of that as you like.

  37. Slashdot is now so full of shills it's unreadable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Almost every story, the right wing noise brigade shows up with their out and out bullshit. The purpose is not even to shut down debate, it's just to firebomb the threads so there is nothing meaningful contained therein.

    Happened earlier with the FCC NN thread. Now this one. Just lies and talking points.

    So, maybe they are right, and NN doesn't matter. The SNR is so low now, the internet is useless.

  38. james clapper by NynexNinja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the same James Clapper who lied under oath in proceedings in Congress. Not sure he can be trusted to make any comments at this point.

  39. I think we probably knew that... by rnturn · · Score: 1

    ... Trump was the sort of person who would...

    Comey stayed behind afterward to tell the president-elect about the controversial Steele dossier, however, and that private meeting may have been responsible for the animosity that would eventually lead to Trump firing the director of the FBI.

    ...kill the messenger. A petty little man.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    1. Re: I think we probably knew that... by Bartles · · Score: 0

      The only reason the dossier was briefed to the president was so that the briefing could be leaked to the press, and they could report the existence of the dossier. They had been sitting on it for months after Steele shopped it around but couldn't report on it because it was "unverified".

  40. And not just documents stating that! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Becaue that is not evidence either!

    Evidence needs to be peer-reviewable, or it is the same as anecdotal hearsay. Even the best study is just anecdotal hearsay, unless you check it with your own experiments.

  41. Link to the Washington Post article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/donald-trump-pursues-vladimir-putin-russian-election-hacking/?utm_term=.142f74849f3c

  42. Re:Slashdot is now so full of shills it's unreadab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Found the democrat whom denies all evidence of Clinton pedophile ring and that the Russia are innocent. I am American (big fan of Texas Rangers! Go Bucks!) and know that you are the fake news.

  43. It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hillary didn't lose because of Russia. Trump didn't win because of Russia.

    Ignore Russia for five seconds if you can... Hillary was a weak candidate and so was pretty much the entire republican field.

    Jeb Bush for example carried 3 percent of the republican vote. Hillary is generally disliked by most of her own party. Trump naturally is one of the most disliked presidents in US history. But he didn't win the election because people liked him. He won because for whatever reason... he said he was going to do things and people believed him.

    Pretending that the current political circumstances are the result of the Russians is deranged. This is the same sort of blind spot that lead to Al Gore losing the election against Bush 43. Anyone that studied the gore vs bush election knows that Gore made a lot of mistakes. If you tell yourself you lose because of the Russians or because the Supreme Court robbed you... then you're going to keep losing and you'll deserve to lose.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re:It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So, if the next presidential candidate to win in the 2020 presidential election is a Democrat who wins comfortably but it can be shown that China ran a covert operation to discredit his/her opponent and cause divisions aimed at getting the candidate elected, that's all fine because the candidate would have won anyway? For railing against people with twisted world views, yours is not much of an improvement...

    2. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      No, you're just saying that the opposition is blaming the chinese for the democrats winning elections which they're not.

      So you're just making desperate arguments backed up by literally nothing... that can be invalidated by thinking about it for mere seconds or doing any kind of search for information.

      Listen, I'm not saying who to vote for... you vote for whomever you want. But saying that Trump won because of Russia suggests that the voting public have no relevant opinions and the democracy is a complete sham because a majority of people are sheep.

      If that is the case, then that reflexively argues that your political party as well is supported by the same sheep like thinking... and that no opinion you have is actually your own... because you're always basically just doing whatever the power broker tells you to think.

      So which is it? Did you lose an election or do you have no free will?

      Come on. Being delusional isn't going to help you. Just take your medicine and learn from it. Here I suspect you're going to display typical "internet stubbornness"... where in 1+1=2 will be denied and I will be disparaged for being so foolish as to think such a thing.

      If so, so be it. I tried to talk sense amongst the madness. Go back to your barking at the moon if that is what you want.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    3. Re: It doesn't matter by Graymalkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Holy shit your oversimplification of the situation is amazingly intellectually bankrupt. The actual reality of the situation is nowhere near as binary as youâ(TM)re trying to suggest.

      The Presidential election is really hundreds of district elections for electors which then cast the votes for the President. Illegally influencing Presidential elections does not require all of the winning partyâ(TM)s voters to be âoesheepâ. It doesnâ(TM)t even need a majority to be âoesheepâ.

      Swinging an election through illegal influence can be done by targeting a relatively small number of swing districts in swing states. This effect has been amplified with ridiculous gerrymandering of the last century (thanks so much Reapportionment Act of 1929) and disenfranchisement campaigns.

      The allegations against Russia include not just the hacking of the DNCâ(TM)s e-mail but an astroturfing and advertising campaign to help Trump and damage Clinton. Literally fake news articles written by content farms and actual Russian intelligence agents/contractors were pushed by thousands of social media bots and fake accounts. A great many of these have been found to be based in Russia. The same patterns have been seen in several recent elections in Europe as well.

      The actual fake news articles used mastheads and site themes aping legitimate news organizations. Facebook and Twitter were gamed to make these sites look like they were widely read and highly regarded. Some people influenced by that misinformation campaign were indeed sheep. It certainly helped Trump in that he routinely decried the mainstream media as collectively untrustworthy. To even the less sheep-like voters the tide of real looking articles confirming their preconceived beliefs put them in a bubble insulated from reality or rationality. Trump campaign officials and Trump himself even amplified these literally fake news stories during the campaign.

      Which goes back to swing districts and states. If a few thousand people in a relatively small number of districts were influenced by that PSYOPS campaign to 1) vote Trump 2) vote third party or 3) stay home because Clinton either âoehas it in the bagâ or is a master criminal then the state will go Trump. If you go back to the vote counts in swing states youâ(TM)ll see a lot of districts went Trump by small margins that tended to go contrary to historical voting patterns. Just like regular product advertising you donâ(TM)t need to influence everyone just enough to profit.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    4. Re:It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The election was FAR TOO CLOSE to be so sure that it wasn't something even SMALL, whether influence of hacking, that altered the result. 30k votes in three counties.

    5. Re: It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Your strawmanning of my position to concoct an argument is intellectually void. I did not reference the electoral college at all much less suggest it doesn't exist.

      As to your sheep argument, it cuts both ways. You're clearly determined to see this in the most biased and partisan fashion possible. Consider that if the people are sheep, then if you ever win an election it is merely by manipulating people.

      As to advertising and campaign money, politicians that spend less money on a campaign win all the time. Suggesting that that is all that determines elections again disenfranchises voters and suggests they're just stupid robots that do what they're told. If people worked this way then democracy would be a bad idea.

      You probably don't realize how foolish you're sounding right now. You're literally giving arguments against democracy.

      But for the sake of argument, if we concede there was russian influence which seems dubious... papers talk about it but when asked to provide the evidence it doesn't appear to exist. But again, for the sake of argument... how much of it could there possibly have been? If there were russian involvement it could have only been barely noticeable. The vast majority of campaigning happened on network tv, the local newspaper, cold calls to homes, etc.

      All you're talking about with RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA is social media. And even there it would have to have been all but irrelevant as a relation to the whole. Here you'll say "but they targeted a battle ground state". Guess what, battle ground states were so saturated with competing political messages that nothing the EVIL RUSSSIANS could have done would have mattered.

      This is all just a very tragic inability to accept a loss. You clearly don't believe in democracy as your sheep comments have proven and you also only approve of elections when you win. I can see why you don't like democracy. Move to a dictatorship please. We're trying to not be ruled by some old nobility or priesthood here.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    6. Re:It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Few people, if any, are saying the election results would be different.
      The problem is that there was collusion with a foreign government to try to influence the election.
      Successful or not, that's a crime.

    7. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Not really, because it was mostly just battleground states which are themselves absolutely flooded with political crap when elections happen. Anything that could drowned out that fog horn would be really obvious.

      Furthermore, you're only talking about social media. The vast majority of campaigning happened on tv, newspapers, billboards, cold calls, knocking on doors... etc.

      What you're saying is some face book posts that were buried in a flood of other face book posts decided the election.

      It is a fundamentally irrational position to take.

      Actually think it through logically.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    8. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Okay, if there was collusion... do you have evidence of this or merely the allegations of a dying political dynasty well known for its deceit and egotism?

      I mean, most of this is just "listen and believe" from the Clinton campaign. If you had more than that, we'd be going to trial.

      The most they have at this point is that Flynn talked to the Russians AFTER Trump was elected but said he didn't to the FBI.

      That is... the only crime thus far is Flynn making false statements to the FBI. This is evidence of neither collusion nor a crime.

      What is more there are giant conflicts of interest with many media outlets that were patiently biased in the election. Where is the objective journalism? I don't see it.

      Everything is tainted by massive lapses in integrity. In this environment, you need to bring actual evidence forward that can survive the crucible of a court trial to be taken seriously.

      I know that the FBI doesn't have that yet. I don't think they will get it because I sincerely believe that the entire mess which has had international repercussions was the selfish last stab of the Clinton machine.

      But here is the most troubling thing for me. I think most of people pushing the Russia story know this already. I think they're just pushing this because it dupes a few die hards and helps salve their wounded egos for losing an election to the likes of Donald Trump.

      Just as with Gore before her, Hillary's loss was mostly self inflicted. Accept it and build a better party with a better people.

      With full sincerity and complete frankness... I believe in you. I believe in the republic. I believe in democracy. I believe in this country.

      Don't tear everything up just because you lose an election. We have this grand inheritance of liberty... It would be the height of foolishness to throw it away simply to make a deceitful old woman feel powerful.

      If you have something, then bring it to court. If not... Let it go.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    9. Re:It doesn't matter by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      Hillary didn't lose because of Russia. Trump didn't win because of Russia. Ignore Russia for five seconds if you can... Hillary was a weak candidate and so was pretty much the entire republican field.

      I agree with everything you wrote in the body of your message - Hillary didn't lose because of Russia, Trump didn't win because of Russia, Hillary was a weak candidate, and so on.

      But to conclude that it "doesn't matter"? -- I don't know how you get that. This, and earlier influence in Brexit, looks to me like the first steps to a kind of propaganda machine that's orders of magnitude more influential than anything we've seen before, one that within 5-10 years will dominate certain parts of international relations and domestic politics. It looks like something that DOES matter, because we have to get a grip on it before our adversaries do.

    10. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      if it didn't decide the outcome then how is it powerful?

      Do you want to talk brexit and say that the british people only voted for brexit because of Russia as well?

      There are propaganda machines all over the place. Battleground states during a US presidential election are getting nailed by every propaganda machine the country has. In THAT shit show what could Russia possibly do even if they did something... which I've seen no evidence they actually did.

      And don't get me wrong. I've read the newspaper articles. They say stuff like "This guy from the FBI thinks X" or "it is possible that something could exist which we haven't found any evidence of"... The evidence has thus far been either fallacious in that they play word games to make nothing sound like something. Taking expert opinion out of context to imply they're saying something they're not. Or alluding the possibly of evidence existing that they haven't found and might well not exist because it didn't happen.

      That has been the "Russia" story thus far. I have been paying attention. Did I miss anything?

      Because the latest BOMB SHELL was that Flynn talked to the Russians AFTER Trump was elected and then lied to everyone about it. Now... the talking to the Russians was not illegal or evidence of colluding... and he even lied Trump about it. And the only real "crime" in it was that he lied to the FBI about something... which is a crime... but not evidence of collusion or anything that implicates anyone but himself. The Trump administration would have no reason to lie about talking to a foreign power after winning an election. The President is amongst other things the prime diplomat of the country... so...

      I'd love to see the evidence. Please show me what I missed. Because I think I've been paying attention here. I strongly suspect many of the people pushing this narrative bought into some bullshit awhile back and now don't have the humility to admit they got duped.

      It happens to us all. Nothing to be gained by being stubborn.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    11. Re: It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't bother responding to these shittards. Nonwhites will outnumber whites by 2050 in America, and telling these literally mentally disabled to kill themselves is a waste of time. The democrats are going to take over the country, and if they start a civil war (they won't), the feds will kill them in the street like the dogs they are.

    12. Re: It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think I'm going to go with the guy who knows how to type an answer without completely screwing his post up with Unicode gobbledygook. Go get yourself a real phone. The experience might help you learn enough to understand why the whole "Russian collusion" thing is entirely made up. (And it is entirely made up. There is no evidence to support it, at all, in over a year of hunting.)

    13. Re: It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're clearly determined to see this in the most biased and partisan fashion possible.

    14. Re:It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is not about whether the elecdtion was turned by russia. i really dont care. if donald had won with 95% of all votes, on hand written ballots, with sketches provided at the polling booth of all the people there, id still call for an investigation into collusion and influence peddling by russia. what they appeared to have done is highly illegal. you dont forgive a crime cause it didnt result in the criminals getting something they wouldnt have gotten anyway. but, then again, stupid.

    15. Re:It doesn't matter by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      if it didn't decide the outcome then how is it powerful? Do you want to talk brexit and say that the british people only voted for brexit because of Russia as well?

      What I believe happened in Brexit and the US elections is that Russia (and presumably other actors to a lesser extent) tested out their new generation of propaganda warfare. I think they got good telemetry on their warfare too, of the form "If we spend $X then we can influence a 0.01% shift among this demographic" and "if we spend $Y then we can influence a 0.05% shift" and so on. I think they got good telemetry because the internet is now built on advertising and telemetry is its plumbing and I think they got to use the same plumbing. And I think they got estimates of how far this will scale -- i.e. how much more money they would spend to influence a larger portion, and what the feasible limit of their influence is.

      And I think they got the answer that these techniques (1) will scale a couple of orders of magnitude more than traditional propaganda, (2) will be a couple of orders magnitude cheaper than traditional propaganda.

      How is it powerful? -- because (I think) it scales more and is cheaper than the alternatives.

      Do I think that British voters only voted for Brexit because of it? -- No, that's ridiculous, and there's no reason for you to suggest that given that I agreed with your perspective on Trump and Hillary.

      Please show me what I missed. Because I think I've been paying attention here.

      I don't know. Have you bought any advertising online yourself yet? Done any viral marketing? Assessed its reach or effectiveness? You seem to keep reaching for these absolutes ("it didn't tip the balance and therefore it was ineffective") rather than seeing it as a process. I guess Scott Adams would call it "systems thinking".

    16. Re:It doesn't matter by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Pretending that the current political circumstances are the result of the Russians is deranged.

      If you work in national security, and you identify that foreign powers having some covert influence on your political process then you have to act to contain it.
      I don't think anyone thinks the result is 100% because of Russia, but if they are pushing 1 % here and 1% there, then over time they can disrupt the balance of power. We know they did it during the Cold War, and there are already cases where Russian backed groups created 'local' Facebook groups with opposing points of views to deliberately inflame civil unrest.
      You can't just sit by and let that stuff continue to happen.

    17. Re:It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're forgetting how close the election was. Really, really close. A swing differential of less than 0.5% across just three states would have changed the outcome.

      Yes, I think Russian intervention provided that much swing. So did lots of other things, of course - winning elections is all about throwing everything into the bucket that you can, and the last drop that makes the tipping point is meaningless without all the others that came before it. But that doesn't invalidate the point that that last drop still did make the difference.

    18. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      By this logic we're just a bunch of sheep that aren't actually making choices as much as being manipulated.

      Carried forward, your argument would suggest doing away with voting entirely.

      If losing an election causes you to lose faith in democracy itself then your faith in the concept was never that strong in the first place.

      I don't think Russia did anything. I don't think there has been any evidence of Russia actually doing anything. And even the theoretical things the Russians could have done are so comically irrelevant in the context of the propaganda frenzy that occurred during either brexit or a battleground state's presidential election campaign... I mean... actually think about it.

      You're making a butterfly effect argument... but those arguments require LONG set up before the event. The preparing of the ground. That argument isn't about one butterfly flapping its wings in the middle of an active hurricane and the hurricane changing direction.

      Look, evidence of the Russians doing something or this is just a fantasy. I can as easily argue that Anubis or Thor decided the election with God magic.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    19. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Given that you're investigating with no evidence besides hearsay, I'll ask you to investigate every election on the same basis and with the same intensity.

      Present your evidence. Because thus far... there is none. Go to trial. No one is stopping you.

      You have nothing. The entire thing has been fallacy, after fabrication, after phantom.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    20. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Can you actually lay out how Russia would have had ANY effect?

      What is more, the US is full of various organizations doing propaganda. And consider that NGOs are dangerous as well by this logic.

      If it is unreasonable for Russia to have an influence... what about George Soros? Because I don't think you can argue that his influence wasn't PERSONALLY dramatically greater than anything Russia did.

      And yet... no court trials or investigations. And if you say "but he's an american citizen"... well.. consider brexit which he also influenced.... British citizen too? How convenient.

      What if Putin becomes a US citizen... can he do it then?

      Actually think.

      Don't respond. Give yourself time to think.

      Give yourself time.

      Your argument is irrational and contradictory.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    21. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not forgetting that. The propaganda was heavy enough from everyone that anything Russia did would be undetectable.

      What is more, you've no evidence they did anything.

      We could as easily argue that Aztec gods using the stored power of ancient blood sacrifices decided the election.

      Provide the evidence. Thus far the best the investigation has is that Flynn talked to Russia AFTER Trump was elected and then lied about it to BOTH trump and the FBI. The act shows no evidence of collusion, nothing illegal on the part of the trump administration itself... though Flynn did lie to the FBI. But nothing he did gives you the collusion you want.

      Where is it? Evidence of anything please? Besides Hillary's salt. Because that's all I see thus far.

      Lots of whining and crying from the Clinton campaign and then lots of deluded people that instead of realizing that you can "Lose" an election...*Gasp* are going to start international incidents and waste lots of time to salve their bruised special snow flake egos.

      I want the evidence or I want humility out of you people. If you will provide neither evidence nor humility then you're a cultist.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    22. Re: It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      You say this because I ask for people to be reasonable, I say that neither of the candidates was very good, and I point out that there isn't actually any evidence?

      You've upgraded from biased to stupid.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    23. Re:It doesn't matter by MotherErich · · Score: 1

      When you put it that way, we really shouldn't be concerned at all with a foreign government even attempting to sway an election *condescending sarcasm*.

      The only mistakes Clinton and Gore made were getting the popular vote without winning the electoral colleges. The only victories Bush or Trump will have is making it easier for rich people to get richer by using naive idealists emotions against them.

      --
      You have to be smarter than the machine you're working with.
    24. Re:It doesn't matter by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Given that you have as much evidence of that as UFO conspiracists have for alien invasions... and because I assume you're not a hypocrite... I guess you're going to take seriously every other thing you have no evidence of either...

      As to mistakes... no... Gore made the mistake of not studying how Bill Clinton won. He also avoided campaigning with Bill even though the only reason he was even considered for president was because he was Bill's vice president.

      Hillary ultimately made the same mistakes Gore made. Bill famously did campaign for HIllary though he said her message should be changed. Bill, the only one of them that had actually won a presidential election, was told to shut up and do what he was told. He did... and she lost.

      In and amongst that, you have what Hillary did to Bernie. Yes, the solidity of your tribalism is not sustainable because she betrayed her own party. The info on that is actually pretty well documented and there is lots of evidence of that. The people that liked bernie know what she did. And as much as you might try to paper over that betrayal with trump hatred... I suspect more than a few bernie people remember.

      Regardless, if you're just going to "rah rah" at me, then so be it. I was trying to have a rational discussion on the issue. And what you're giving me is cultish foolishness that none but the deepest coolaid drinkers take seriously.

      Everyone knows, bub. You're just embarrassing yourself.

      https://www.amazon.com/Hacks-I...

      Everyone know.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    25. Re: It doesn't matter by Xenographic · · Score: 1

      So, you're saying that elections would be so much better if foreigners weren't allowed to talk about them on the internet? Or that we should only be lied to by American pundits & politicians?

      The emails only hurt Hillary because they were true. In fact, my personal opinion is that this email is the one that lost her the election. Don't give me that "they were altered BS." Donna Brazille was already caught lying about that, I have posted the DKIM keys taken from Hillary's own damned DNS server here on Slashdot which validate the email content. So if you dare trot out that idiotic lie, as others have before, you can be proven mathematically wrong as DKIM provides non-repudiation and enough Slashdotters know what that means to mercilessly mock anyone idiotic enough too make this suggestion in the face of cryptographic proof to the contrary.

    26. Re: It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this micro targeting was done by Cambridge Analytical.

    27. Re:It doesn't matter by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Your argument is irrational and contradictory.

      You asked questions then decided the answers are wrong before I've given them.Good luck with that strategy...

    28. Re: It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "an astroturfing and advertising campaign to help Trump and damage Clinton. Literally fake news articles written by content farms and actual Russian intelligence agents/contractors were pushed by thousands of social media bots and fake accounts."

      So you are saying Hillary did NOT act cavalierly with National Secrets, that she did NOT then attempt to delete evidence, that she did NOT destroy equipment that would have been evidence, that she did NOT conspire to rig the Democratic Primary against her opponent, etc.?
      You're saying she is completely innocent and was a victim of "fake news articles"? Articles that were perhaps based on information leaked by HER OWN PARTY, not by some Russian "hacker" thousands of miles away?

      And, even now, she is afforded the luxury of remaining free, regardless of the evidence against her, while our DoJ plays a game of sham "investigations" based on a suspected false dossier created by that same Democratic Party in an effort to nullify a legal election just because they lost?

      Yeah, product advertising did all that. Sorry, I've become far too pessimistic to continue believing the tripe being spewed by "our Government".
      Let's see the proof.

    29. Re:It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you're going to take seriously every other thing you have no evidence of either...

      If you don't make a serious investigation of many problems, you'll never have the evidence. Hence the importance of attentiveness.

      We're not going to investigate every election with the same intensity, but yes, we should and must continually prepare ourselves for the need to ensure our elections are not compromised or faulty(not that we're talking much about the latter, but there are multiple court cases winding their way up to the top) , and yes, some of us remember that you've made the argument that people are a bunch of sheep that aren't actually making choices as much as being manipulated.

      You've made that complaint numerous times, deriding others for how easily you can lead them, and insist upon your mastery of the process.

      No wonder you're trying to insist that anybody recognizing it is foolish enough to believe in long-discredited mythological beings, you don't want people to realize who you are behind the curtain.

      As to mistakes... no... Gore made the mistake of not studying how Bill Clinton won.

      Ross Perot suck away more votes from Papa Bush and then going against the most boring old bore in the whole damn Senate?

      Yeah, I don't think that Gore could have arranged either option. He actually got snakebit by the one, then was followed by the second himself.

      Hillary ultimately made the same mistakes Gore made.

      Being a stultifying bore that was associated with Bill Clinton? I can't say you're wrong. Not that is what you meant. But no, her mistakes were not cultivating enough of the votes that Obama had, and not building up the outrage and anger in her own side. She passed on so many opportunities to score during the debate, it was cringe-worthy, but even beyond that, her choice of VPs was flawed. She should have picked somebody that would have provoked Trump to outrage, or even found somebody to split the GOP.

      But going back to your first post:

      Trump naturally is one of the most disliked presidents in US history. But he didn't win the election because people liked him. He won because for whatever reason... he said he was going to do things and people believed him.

      You really should listen to people more. There's an element of people in this country that DO like Trump. They think the world of him. Either that, or my Congressman's last conference call was full of paid shills for him, I mean, other than the Congressman himself, he's a patsy for whatever right-wing Republican nonsense is the grease of the day. And he's not inclined to be stupid and asinine like some of the others. But still, the unquestioned devotion to Trump the Magnificent was palpable.

      Regardless, if you're just going to "rah rah" at me, then so be it. I was trying to have a rational discussion on the issue. And what you're giving me is cultish foolishness that none but the deepest coolaid drinkers take seriously.

      Everyone knows, bub. You're just embarrassing yourself.

      LOL, c'mon Karmashock, it isn't like you're fooling anybody, you're just interested in ranting forth with your own monomaniacal diatribe and demanding that all persons see your unquestioned majesty as the only reasonable and thoughtful outcome.

      Nobody thinks one single event loses an election, but that doesn't mean certain events aren't offensive on their own, whether they be corrupt bargains, multiple returns by unsanctioned governments, an unlawful attempted break-in, or a partisan court decision.

      In some things, merely the attempt, or the possibility, is the offense. Yet you give no thought to that, despite repeated inquiries, because you dare not modify yo

    30. Re: It doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you stupid deplorable.

      Hillary didn't lose 'cause people could smell her taint from a mile away. She lost 'cause she's a victim.

      So there.

  44. Blah Blah blah, and more blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing new here. More fake news that has never been reported by ANY OTHER news agency and has never been verified NOR has it has ever been repeated, except by the mentally distrubed still crying about not having sex with their alpaca this moring.

    Love their little poopies.

  45. This news story is basically treason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By publishing this they just told the Russians exactly how they were spying on the highest echelons of their government. If they captured Putin directly giving the order that means there was with a spy in the room in which case that spy is now either ex-filtrated out or dead or they just told the Russians whatever communications kit they were using has been hacked in which case the have dropped whatever system they were using. Publishing this = compromising US security 10x worse than an "collusion" with Russia (as if the Russians ever needed to collude with Trump to justify hacking Podesta emails...).

  46. So fake it hurts by cyberman27 · · Score: 1

    Seriously Hilary Clinton was the worst candidate anyone has seen and she lost, maybe if you realize that you can start to understand why she lost and why her plan was so bad.

  47. Why would Trump be upset? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...but Trump remained calm during the carefully choreographed meeting...

    Why would he be upset? After all, he won!!

    1. Re:Why would Trump be upset? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump is american hero! I am patriotic American and 100% trump supporter. Trump attackers are no patriots. President is to be respected position of authority and significant.

  48. I do not know what Trumps reasons were by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For firing James Clapper. I do however know many reasons for why he should have been fired long ago:

    1. He lied under oath to Congress about NSA surveillance of American citizens.

    2. When it looked like Hillary was a sure bet for POTUS he mishandled the entire email investigation by destroying evidence, instructing subordinates to reword their findings to a non illegal definition, and refusing to suggest prosecution.

    3. In an "oh shit" moment, when it looked like Trump had a very real chance to win, he magically finds more "related" emails and releases them to the public right before election time. Later after voting is up the American public finds out that the emails had little to do with the original investigation.

    4. His entire handling of the Russian investigation and steele dossier. Every time a major conversion takes place between James and Trump, its magically a one on one, private, unprovable conversation. This is NOT the way in which you communicate with someone you are investigating.

    Any one of those reasons he should be fired for but in combination, I believe he should be jailed. He has shown a steady track record of selfish, non partisan corruption.

  49. WMD's by Train0987 · · Score: 0

    Remember when they had incontrovertible proof that Saddam had WMD's and we had to go to war to stop him? Yeah, those were fun times.

  50. Trump lies all the time, plain and simple by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    And People take his words and run with them, only later do the News Agencies claim they were wrong (less Foxnews). I for one am tired of it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us...

    I had such a warm fuzzy after Roy Moore was beat by Doug Jones, that I'm looking forward to Trump's ouster.

    1. Re:Trump lies all the time, plain and simple by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      There's a huge double standard there, for sure.

      I have a simple rule - if Trump says it, it's probably self-serving bullshit that his supporters will accept as gospel. Surprisingly, sometimes he gets things right anyway, but I still wouldn't trust him to tell me the time of day.

    2. Re:Trump lies all the time, plain and simple by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Keep waiting. Still waiting for evidence to be presented, some two year after they started investigating Trump....

    3. Re:Trump lies all the time, plain and simple by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      Keep waiting. Still waiting for evidence to be presented, some two year after they started investigating Trump....

      That happened today https://www.washingtonpost.com... and it wasn't anything he said, but what he didn't say.

  51. You yanks want war with Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you braindead George Soros (a real life jew AND an actual nazi from WW2) programmed yanks want war with Russia you can have war with Russia- but know this. Such a war will wipe out yankland from Human History for all time.

    We see this dribbling anti-Russian propaganda across all tech sites now (go look at the infamous WCCFTECH for instance, that mirrors the effort on Slashdot). And today the BBC (PR arm of MI5) has its saturation coverage about "dirty russians" planning to destroy the international cables running across the oceans (the same cables GCHQ taps into- but the BBC is hardly going to tell its dwindling audience that little FACT).

    Funny thing is, all these anti-Trump outlets are NOT discussing the demonic plan to move the US embassy to Jerusalem. See, when Trump proposes a crime that serves the JEWS, all the jewish controlled outlets fall silent.

    And slashdot has run multiple articles saying radiation is GOOD for you- in readiness for the use of (small) nuclear warheads against Iranian facilities.

    Obviously only braindead zionist losers still hang on this site (and those of us who monitor the mindset of said DANGEROUS losers)- as comments here prove. The world sits on the edge of WW3, and the population of a nation that benefits so much from trade now wants to see everything burn, because of their addiction to orwellian propaganda.

    Now you little warmongering dribblers- dismiss this comment as the work of a 'russian troll' just like your masters tell you to do.

  52. Clapper purgers himself all the time by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    He is not the most credible guy.

  53. Trump, not the son of an orangutan story by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    Bill Maher VS Donald Trump - The Full Story
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  54. The Daily Beast said that the Washington Post said by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

    that a little birdie told them so. Really compelling stuff.

    But who cares -- it's flashy and hugely controversial, and so will generate a yuuuuge number of SlashClicks.

  55. A non-story at best by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Yes, people from all over the world are trying the hack the US all the time. What else is new?

    The issue is whether, or not, Trump was personally involved in an illegal conspiracy to rig the election.

    And that issue, the real issue, is not even addressed.

  56. Putin by JustOK · · Score: 1

    Putin controls the CIA. He won it in a card game with Trump.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
    1. Re:Putin by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I thought it was traded by Clinton for a sweetheart deal for a speech by Bill to Moscow bankers and a sizable donation to the Clinton Foundation.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  57. IMPREACH 45! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    COLLUSION!!! IMPREACH 45!!!!

    1. Re:IMPREACH 45! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nancy P, Is that you? Go home, they need you in SanFran.

  58. Bridge to sell us too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wikileaks colluded with Trump - Lie that was repeated for a year.

    Release the evidence (like Wikileaks does) so it can be verified, because there's been nothing but bullshit coming out of the US government for as long as I can remember.

  59. So much bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Putin controlled the DNC, is that right?

    Seriously, did you faggots even read what Donna Brazil wrote?

  60. Law enforcement CAN matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pretending that the current political circumstances are the result of the Russians is deranged.

    If someone broke the law and you have evidence, you don't need to blame them for the current circumstances. You can just blame them for the crime.

    Let's say we had a nasty argument, and in the course of our disagreement .. shit, I happened to shoot you and you died. Even worse than you dying, I got caught and the police are giving me a hard time! But I have an ace up my sleeve. See this file here? Turns out you had cancer and were doing to be dead in a few weeks anyway. (We were arguing about how much you're gonna pay me for some fraudulent cancer treatments that I sell. Hmm.. in hindsight, I think shooting you did not help me maximize my revenue, so I already have some regrets about that. Sorry.) By the time of my trial, there's no way you would have still been around.

    Was it murder? Am I the reason your family doesn't have you anymore?

    No, I'm not quite the reason your family doesn't have you anymore. Nevertheless, there was a murder.

    From the court's point of view, it's not just about you; it's about me (the criminal) too. The jury will convict me, not let me go due to your cancer. Similarly, some of Trump's people (and maybe Trump himself, depending on the usual "what did the president know and when did he know it?") are getting indicted. Some may go to trial, others are already pleading guilty because they know how red-handed they got caught. A crime definitely happened and we caught some of the Trump people involved, and they're confessing. That these people have confessed to confirm all the evidence of their crimes, is an objectively true non-partisan uncontroversial fact. They did it, and they're admitting they did it.

    That 95% of the voters tragically voted Republicrat right after these crimes, still might not be these criminals' fault. But we can still take out some Republicrat criminals that we've caught, so that next time, maybe the numbers will be a little better. But even election hopes aside, taking out Republicrat criminals means don't have to worry about all the other things that they do. There's way more to life than just the 2016 election, after all.

    Even if the jury thinks your cancer is nearly as responsible for your death as my bullet was, they have a scumbag here who was going around shooting people! What if the next person I shoot, doesn't have cancer? You've gotta take out the bad guys.

    1. Re:Law enforcement CAN matter by Karmashock · · Score: 0, Troll

      Cool present the evidence and do a court trial.

      There is currently more evidence of collusion with Hillary than there is with Trump.

      Consider if Trump had been SecState, the trump foundation got a bunch of money from the Russians, and then Trump's SecState approved the sale to UraniumOne?

      Suddenly people would care.

      Look, spin your narratives as you please. I was trying to introduce some adult level headed reasonableness into this dumpsterfire of a political argument.

      Democrats apparently think anytime they lose an election it is because it was stolen from them. We got that from Gore and now we're pathetically getting it from the last gasp of the Clinton machine.

      Close elections happen. You think Trump did something illegal? Have your court trial. But thus far the entire thing has been an embarrassing circus for everyone promoting the Russia narrative.

      The only reason I want it to stop is because I don't want so many of our national institutions to prostitute themselves to a dying political empire's ego. But if that is what people want to do... so be it.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  61. Re:But, but, but, ... but her emails! by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Trump supporters: dumber than cattle

    When all else fails, insult your opponents en mass because that's a good way to get them to vote for your ideas.

    Who's dumb? I think you are all hat and no cattle myself..

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  62. Clapper says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was the least untruthful thing he can say about it.

  63. BULLSHIT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every hacker changes the MAC address and IPaddress automatically. To even suggest that the Russian spy agency forgot to do that is like suggesting you forgot to put on boots before walking into deep snow, and that's not going to happen.

    If a Russia IP or MAC address was in there, it was placed there intentionally.

    1. Re:BULLSHIT by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Or they don't give a shit about revealing themselves. For example if the entire exercise was done to sew discord and disrupt the American economy, then being able to trace it back to Russia isn't quite so important. As long as short term goals like Russian energy interests are achieved.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  64. Re:So, what specifically were Putin's instructions by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Um... In your hypothetical, Putin ordered his resources to back Trump.

    Problem here is that there is more involved in this a problem for Trump. First you have to show that Putin was ordering his folks to help Trump, this story doesn't show that. THEN, Trump (or his surrogate) must have agreed to Putin doing this.

    If Putin was just putting his resources to work to "hack" the election to spread FUD, but didn't care about which candidate won, Trump is clear.

    If Putin was supporting Trump but no duly authorized member of the Trump campaign authorized it (or asked for it), Trump is in the clear.

    If you cannot prove all three of these things, Trump is in the clear.

    So you have to have more than this story... Keep looking sir..

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  65. What really happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me tell you why Hilary lost. It's quite simple, really. It's due to the dems insistence on emphasizing identity politics. White people, especially poor white people, hated that. The democrat party used to be about blue collar workers. That demographic was ignored this time around. Trump claimed to be about bringing back a focus on jobs. That resonated with a group that was feeling pretty left out. There you go. Simple.

  66. Who's an American to trust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Putin or the United States Central Intelligence Agency? #MAGA #POTUSPUTIN

  67. Re:But, but, but, ... but her emails! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you should be saying the same thing there sporky. Government officials deleting 33k official records three weeks after the subpoena was issued for them and she repeatedly lied about it.

  68. Re:More pollitics allowed you by your /. censors. by DirkDaring · · Score: 0

    They have to finish putting up the articles that argue for getting rid of Net Neutrality first.

  69. What does "hack the election" mean??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is ridiculous.

  70. Belief in this Russian Conspiracy Theory and... by JackAxe · · Score: 1

    Trump Derangement Syndrome go hand and hand!

    1. Re:Belief in this Russian Conspiracy Theory and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Russians were trying to throw the election. Still, it wasn't a Russian conspiracy. I'm sure the 'attaboys go all the way around.

  71. WMD ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this evidence as bullet-proof as the one about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?
    We've been lied to so many times, why would we trust these guys if they don't show what they have in hands?

  72. More opinion modded down by your /. censors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They modded down the original comment which will be almost as funny as the upcoming release of the DOJ Inspector's General report on the Obama Administration FBI - Russian collusion 'Insurance policy' against the Trump presidency. Proof again anything a leftist wants will be mandatory and anything they disagree with will be banned.

    More pollitics allowed you by your /. censors. (Score:-1)
    by Anonymous Coward on Friday December 15, 2017 @11:10AM (#55745813)

    I can't wait till we start reading headlines on /. about the upcoming Uranium One reports and DOJ/FBI Obama Administration Russian collusion 'Insurance policy' against the Trump presidency. Who wants to guess when all those articles are going to come through the Soros aligned censors? WhereTF is the News for Nerds?

  73. Re:jeff sessions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Irrelevent or you don't actually give a damn.

    "This is the same Jeff Sessions who lied under oath in proceedings in Congress. Not sure he can be trusted to make any comments at this point."

  74. I mostly can't see AC by shanen · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure I understand you. I have my settings adjusted so that I almost never see anything from AC unless the comment is heavily moderated up. Based on their rare appearances (sometimes in Parent searches), I am convinced I am missing nothing of significance.

    I think there is a better solution, though it would not be minor. I can describe it briefly, however. One description is to make karma more symmetric to moderation. An alternative description would be to make public reputation more symmetric with respect to private representation. Lots of detailed suggestions available upon polite request, or you can just rummage around among my old comments.

    At this point I think Slashdot is basically what it is. Sort of sad to see it falling on such hard times and sort of frustrating to see the potential for improvements. However there is no evidence things will ever improve, which I mostly attribute to the broken financial models. The question is not "change" or "no change", but "smooth change" versus "disruptive change". There is also the dimension of getting better or worse. I would currently place Slashdot in the quadrant of gradual change for the worse. (Makes me realize I can tag three of the cells as "declining", "collapsing", and "improving", but I don't know how to label the 4th cell. Perhaps because it is so rare?)

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  75. it's you who don't understand impeachment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You do understand impeachment right? Simple majority of the House has to vote for impeachment and 75% of the Senate has to vote to remove him.

    ...

    article 1, section 3, ... when the president of the united states is tried, the chief justice shall preside. And no Person shall be Convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

  76. The meaning - hack the 2016 presidential election by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    What does "hack the 2016 presidential election" mean? I'm not seeing it in the article. Maybe the WaPo article has it.

    Is it any different from what journalists with a political preference do?

    Also, how long does it take for the FBI/NSA/CIA to create a fake document? Not that we've seen any document. At least I haven't. Maybe someone else here has.

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
  77. But...the CIA are known liars. by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

    This is the problem when an organization engagesn decades of lies and deception. Your can't believe anything they say. If they called anything, you still can't be sure who exactly it was that sent what they captured. You'd have to trust them. They've proven over and over and over they can't be trusted.

    --
    Only boring people are ever bored.
  78. Trust but Verify by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's the Washington Post.... WaPo

    Probably propaganda - worse than Russia's 97 cents worth of ads bought during the election. PLEASE

    Verify - sources - people - and stories.

    It's mostly PROPAGANDA

  79. Perhaps, but maybe... by kenh · · Score: 1

    Comey stayed behind afterward to tell the president-elect about the controversial Steele dossier, however, and that private meeting may have been responsible for the animosity that would eventually lead to Trump firing the director of the FBI.

    Perhaps, but maybe it's exactly because of the reason he stated - the botched investigation and public announcements involved with the Clinton email investigation, you know the reason countlessdemocrats were calling for his firing earlier that same year under Obama.

    --
    Ken
  80. Loving them anonymous sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > They hacked the democratic party and had Wikileaks published 20000 internal stolen emails.

    Prove it. Wikileaks denies this, saying there was a leak and pointing to one Seth Rich who was shot twice in the back of the head for no apparent reason with nothing having been taken, and there's been so far no real evidence of this. ODNI claimed it was something Russia might like to do, but otherwise said nothing, despite press claiming that 17 agencies confirmed way more than the report actually said and then mentioning that anonymous sources told them all kinds of nonsense. Crowdstrike released a report saying it's APT Fancy Bear, but their identification consists of someone using freeware tools on Tor, which leaves more than a bit of room for skepticism. Trend Micro's report might as well have just been the line "we think it's Fancy Bear." There was no technical substance to any of this, but once a veneer of alleged classified info from anonymous sources was added, it got spun into anything and everything by pundits.

    > This was denied by the Trump campaign and Trump instead at a rally said, ""Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing"

    The alleged hack was over at this point and the emails never turned up. That kind of undercuts the innuendo you're trying to put into that joke, frankly this one is just a special kind of stupid.

    > Russia is trying to undermine faith in US democracy

    Why are you helping them, then? From reading this, apparently you believe that, but you consider winning elections more important. Funny how that works, isn't it? I, for one, think this is utter nonsense and they're simply a convenient boogeyman that can be blamed for any political failing.

    Hillary lost to a freshman Senator and Trump, the elephant in the room is that she didn't need any help losing. I can't wait for you guys to run Chelsea next.

    Anyhow, going back to the instant story, my classified sources say that these classified sources are nonsense.

  81. Assassinate Putin Now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Putin must die for Russia to live.

  82. Faith in "U.S. democracy" :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12/13/the-u-s-is-not-a-democracy-it-never-was/

    "The problem, however, is that there is no contradiction or supposed loss of democracy because the United States simply never was one. This is a difficult reality for many people to confront, and they are likely more inclined to immediately dismiss such a claim as preposterous rather than take the time to scrutinize the material historical record in order to see for themselves. Such a dismissive reaction is due in large part to what is perhaps the most successful public relations campaign in modern history. What will be seen, however, if this record is soberly and methodically inspected, is that a country founded on elite, colonial rule based on the power of wealth—a plutocratic colonial oligarchy, in short—has succeeded not only in buying the label of “democracy” to market itself to the masses, but in having its citizenry, and many others, so socially and psychologically invested in its nationalist origin myth that they refuse to hear lucid and well-documented arguments to the contrary."

    I dare you to read it through ... ... and think.

  83. hacking elections - US role by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Strangely no-one wants to ask the critical question: How many FOREIGN elections have US hacked? How about US interventions in Greece to star with then Ukraine? Did Us try to affect Russian elections? If you were Russian and US tried to influence your elections would you not consider it quid pro quo to return the compliment? All those complaining about Russia activities are you willing ot ban US/ CIA State Department from seeking to influence foreign elections?