Slashdot Mirror
Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (nytimes.com)
The New York Times: Older people report higher levels of contentment or well-being than teenagers and young adults. The six elders put faces on this statistic. If they were not always gleeful, they were resilient and not paralysed by the challenges that came their way. All had known loss and survived. None went to a job he did not like, coveted stuff she could not afford, brooded over a slight on the subway or lost sleep over events in the distant future. They set realistic goals. Only one said he was afraid to die. Gerontologists call this the paradox of old age: that as people's minds and bodies decline, instead of feeling worse about their lives, they feel better (Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source). In memory tests, they recall positive images better than negative; under functional magnetic resonance imaging, their brains respond more mildly to stressful images than the brains of younger people. John Sorensen, who liked to talk, brought cheer to every conversation, even those about wanting to die. Helen Moses and Ping Wong knew exactly what they wanted: for Ms Moses, it was her daughter and Mr Zeimer; for Ms Wong, it was mah-jongg and the camaraderie it entailed, even if the other players spoke a different dialect or followed the rules of a different home region. Mr Jones, Ms Willig and Mr Mekas all spent their energy on the things they could still do that brought them satisfaction, not on what they had lost to age.
Slashdot must be the happiest place on earth then.
Wow. I do feel better!
I'm in my late 30's but I don't own a smartphone, don't partake of social media, don't have a dozen credit cards, don't have tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt, don't buy into all the latest electronics fads, don't live beyond my means, don't act like I'm married to my job, don't have countless hollow relationships with people I don't care about, et cetera.
I never thought about it before, but I'm way less stressed than most people my age.
P.S. It helps that I also don't have kids or a significant other. And no plans to have either of course of my life. So add freedom to the list.
Let me tell you, not stressing about things you can't control while letting yourself stress a bit about the stuff you can control, and prioritizing positive social interaction over negative... that's about the best first choice for improving your life.
There's tons of other stuff, but you start there. Remember you're a social primate with a finite lifespan, so relax as much as you can and enjoy your time.
I'm in my 40's, generally really happy, and...
I don't own a smartphone,
I do! But I decide when I want to interact with it. I treat it as a tool for my benefit.
don't partake of social media
I do! But again I use it mostly as a tool to help others, and don't let it define what I do or listen to demands that I feed it. Like any petulant child you must raise social media right.
don't have a dozen credit cards
I do! Well, almost. But I carry balances on NONE. Because again, I control the tool, I don't let the tool control me. And along the way I've gotten lots of nice benefits like flights where I flew business for very little cash out, on flights I would have been flying coach otherwise.
don't have tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt
Well I'll mostly agree with you on that one, except that it can be reasonable to incur that kind of debt for a handful of jobs - software development among them. Now hundreds of thousands in debt, there are very few jobs that warrant that debt burden.
don't buy into all the latest electronics fads
I do! But not ALL of them. There's nothing wrong with owning some cool electronics as long as you stay well within your income (and savings).
don't act like I'm married to my job, don't have countless hollow relationships with people I don't care about,
Kind of the same thing, in the. But I think there can be value in such relationships, and sometimes you find things that are hollow really are not. Being married to your job when you are younger for a time, can have real value in advancement of career that will benefit you the rest of your life.
P.S. It helps that I also don't have kids or a significant other. And no plans to have either of course of my life. So add freedom to the list.
I think for a lot of people it does not help to have no SO. Even though I personally am with you on kids I think there are a lot of people who are a lot happier with kids than without. All of that depends on the person... also with an SO in your life there can still be a lot of freedom (as an individual), in addition to having someone to share the results of that freedom with.
don't live beyond my means
That's the thing. None of the items you posted really matter besides this one, which is why I moved it to the last item. Pretty much anything you do will be OK if you don't end up placing a huge burden on yourself doing so, and in todays modern age debt is a very huge burden because of the legal overhang above you. It's also true that if you feel the same way and you want an SO you had better make sure you are on the same page about money and debt, because it removes a huge point of stress between two people.
Basically Spock was right - live long and prosper. But you can't prosper spending more than you take in.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Ever feel like an old man in a young man's body? Never mind. Just get off my lawn.
While you have the strength and energy of youth use it wisely. If things continue like they are, you must be self sufficient to survive old age. There will be no more Social Security and no more Medicade/Medicare. Get rich now kids or die poor and homeless. #MAGA
They are befuddled and blithely unaware.
With a sample-size of SIX I'm not surprised they were able to find common ground... Saying that no old people want things they can't afford is ridiculous.
It hasn't really been my experience that the elderly really are that content with their lives? I look at people like my wife's mom, who currently lives with us. Ever since she lost enough eyesight and motor skills to be dangerous behind the wheel and had her drivers' license taken away, she doesn't want to venture outside anymore. She's still old-fashioned enough in her ways so if I, as the "man of the house", suggest we all go out for dinner or to a store, she'll agree and go along with us. But otherwise, she always chooses not to. Her day consists of sleeping a lot and watching a lot of game shows on television, plus a little talking on her phone to any of her relatives or friends she can reach.
I experienced the same thing with my grandfather on my mom's side of the family. As soon as he had some health problems, he went into a depression and funk that he never really got back out of.
I do know exceptions to this rule ... older folks who just seem overly positive and oblivious to things that would otherwise bring them down. But I view that as more of a defense mechanism than a true state of contentment and peace? They seem a little "out of touch" to people who observe them for long enough.
IMO, the bigger question is, "Are you actually DOING things that you like doing, or things that give a sense of accomplishment for completing?" Social media isn't really a bad thing, in and of itself, and neither are smartphones. But the danger is that you can get sucked into doing a lot of living vicariously through others instead of doing things for yourself. Keeping up with all of the "news" can be addictive and burn a lot of free time that you could have invested in actually doing some home improvement project, fixing up your car, or any number of other activities.
Older people on average have more money, own their homes, achieved what they wanted in their careers, raised their kids who are not living at home, and dote on their grandkids. Expectations and stress are lower so happiness is greater.
Be happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
.Older people spent their working years during two major booms (Internet and Housing),
Older people made their money from the 'internet boom'?
Are you on crack cocaine rsilvergun?
No, seriously, are you on crack cocaine?
This. Young people feel bad about life because the economic deck is stacked against them: they graduate with heavy debt into a lousy job market which doesn't matter because the housing bubble ensures that they can never afford to stop renting and start paying a mortgage (even if they could get one with all that student debt). They end up putting off marriage and starting a family as a result of this perfect storm of economic disincentives. They miss out on the fundamental joy that a family can bring their lives.
Here's a little secret: people like to play. They play as children, and it stimulates their intellect. When they grow older and start families, they continue to play, but in the role of a parent playing with a child. They get just as much stimulation from that as the child, but the difference in role changes the nature of their play. The father who plays catch with his son or takes him fishing feels himself a father and a role model. Today's indebted graduates also play, but alone: they play video games, or they play in other ways, but they don't play with children because they don't have them. They don't get the psychological benefits of perceiving themselves as role models. The normalization of playing alone instead of playing as a parent results in the extended puerility of today's adult. They don't get the self-actualization that their parents did when they became role models. Instead, they're trapped in eternal childhood.
The future of the American dream depends on realigning the economics of rites of passage to encourage family development. College costs need to come down -- colleges need to stop building glittering edifices and trying to pervade every aspect of a student's life with more administrators and auxiliaries (who often vastly outnumber faculty). College should just be about education, not about providing housing, dining, policing, sexual counseling, mental wellness, physical fitness, and everything else in life (see here Carl Schmitt's definition of totalitarianism, wherein government tries to invade every aspect of human endeavor and thus equate itself with society). College also needs to focus on helping students make a contribution to society, not to critique it endlessly without ever making a positive contribution and certainly not to divide it along lines of identity. More housing needs to be built in order to increase supply and lower costs. The retirement age should decrease to push out the elderly and bring in the young to the workforce, and H1B and offshoring needs to stop. Finally, put a stop to welfare: stop stealing from those who contribute to society and stop giving to those who only loot it.
This advice sounds like how to get there.
Every generation claims they have it tougher than their parents. Even the baby boomers. What do you think the counterculture and the summer of love was all about? In twenty years you'll be hearing how you had it easy because you had access to student loans, lived through the AI bubble and could own your own car. You'll never be happy if you are always comparing yourself to others, especially since human nature is to focus on the worst comparisons and ignore the good ones. Live your own life. Enjoy the fact that you are living a lifestyle that even emperors could only aspire to a few hundred years ago.
Only some underage moron could ever come up with such crap. Reality (from the perspective of someone who is distinctly elderly and knows plenty of others in the same age group): It's not that we're any happier, it's simply that we've pretty much given up all hope of ever really achieving our dreams. Some do get there of course but, like being wealthy, it's only a small minority. Most struggle to make their savings/pension/minimal income meet ends and and hopefully last longer at least as long as we might live.
I see asinine statements like "None went to a job he did not like" and all I can say is that the elderly rarely have jobs. They're either retired, unemployed or dead. I think the "researchers", for want of a more appropriate term, are in fact dealing with middle age people, not elderly. Just for reference, elderly is generally considered to at least 65 or 70. Sure some of us still work, but again, we're a very small minority.
For those of you in your 30's and 40's, sorry but you're still very young and don't have any more perspective on this subject than I did when I was your age. You have no real idea of what's coming your way. If you're happy now then that's great, it is unlikely to get much better when you get older.
Older people spent their working years during two major booms (Internet and Housing), went to school before the massive funding cuts of the Regan/Clinton/Bush era and were set in their careers before the outsourcing boom in the 2000s. No sh!t sherlock they're happier. They've collectively let the world go to hell and now it looks like they're gonna leave the younger generations with the fix it bill.
While I could see where you are coming from if you were talking about baby boomers, this article was about people in their 90's (the Greatest & Silent generations). They stopped working at around 1990. These generations dealt with hardships unheard of by the youth of today. Today's youth are the first generation in modern US history to have an arguably harder life than their parents, but not harder than their grandparents.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
In Korea only old people use email.
Kids make a certain kind of person better. When I got young relatives (I'm an uncle), I started thinking about what I'd tell them about life. What lessons I'd learned, what advice I'd give them. Then I realized, I should take that advice myself. It's made me better.
I don't think the Baby Boomers ever claimed they, as a generation, had it tougher than their Depression-/WWII-/Korea-era parents. In fact, starting a few decades ago, when I was in college, I had older folks telling me I had it tougher than them. And I'm a Gen-X'er. The Millenials are totally f-cked.
Graduating with heavy debt is a choice. My college roommate partied, while I worked telephone customer service.
He graduated with heavy debt; I graduated with none.
They know they're going to die soon and there's nothing they can do about it, so why care about anything?
Imagine what kind of father you would be. Imagine how much better a person you would be if you had to give those lessons and advice to your own children daily.
Why aren't you a father yet? Ponder that question for a bit.
Have you ever researched your family tree? How many children did your great-grandparents have? Your grandparents?
There is a great demographic change sweeping across the western world, not just America. That's not just a demographic change but a psychological change, for precisely the reasons outlined in the post above. What if you and all your friends were better people for giving lessons and advice to your children? What if you all had children as a reason to make yourselves better? What if you felt you had to live up to an ideal that you only dimly perceive now?
Well, it was approximately 17 years ago.
Remember these things.
1. No one gives a shit what you think.
2. No one gives a shit how you feel.
3. You aren't as smart is you think you are. If you are, keep your fucking mouth shut about it.
4. Don't bother trying to save the World. The World doesn't give a fuck about you or your efforts.
5. Take responsibility for the dumb fuck things you've done and don't do them again.
6. Don't treat people like shit.
7. Remember it's not about you.
8. It's none of you fucking business.
9. Don't leave a mess
10. Don't Whine.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
An article about old people for an audience that's mostly young.
Few year ago I read an article about how different abilities, of the mind and the body peak at different ages. The question was "is there an ideal age". Some things I knew (e.g. endurance peaks about 40).
The most interesting graph was the last one where happiness and sexual desire/ability were plotted versus age. Happiness is the lowest around 40 (stands to reason - you begin to reevaluate your life and will always find many things to regret). Around 60 you are as happy as you were around 20. And then happiness goes up to infinity, cut short only by death. However, exactly at that point where you become happier than ever in your live your sexual desire/ability is gone. So there it is - sexual desire is a hassle. Or rather the behaviors, desires and frustrations that it generates.
Anecdote: one of my best friends told me once " I can't wait until the moment I won't be interested in women. What a bloody distraction, like a constant buzz in your head and body!" While I frankly cannot imagine what it is to live without craving women I begin to think it might not be that bad...
Found the article:
http://www.bbc.com/future/stor...
I remembered wrong - there is a decline in happiness around 70-80 yrs and your sexual desire lingers on for longer than I though. Still it is interesting....
We're already overpopulating the planet. We don't need more kids.
Who the hell submitted this? This summary is absolute garbage. It reads like either a rant or a bedtime story. Who the hell are "the six elders"? If you can't even write a logical summary, there's no way in hell that I'm reading the article or ensuing discussion. Please, if you're going to publish to slashdot, at least make it coherent.
Watching the smooth-face SJW droolers wipe blood from their faces makes oldfolk conservatives smile a thousand smiles. Arthritus hurts less when we smite our enemies, and pleasure-in the wailing pain of their slut-bitch women; we giggle at the prospect looking for'ard to driving yet another spike into the heart of nibberizing Trotsky Rawlsian culture. Slaughtering enemies makes a good way to die don'cha think ? Kinda like 1920 Germany when brownshirts drove revolting Trotsky-sluts into the mud! Explicitly watching Soros and Pelosi and Feinstein and Schumer and Lynch and Billary et.al. crap blood & eat-gutter-dirt is a little too much fun to expect. The bitter rancid gaul in their belly is sufficient for now; perhaps we'll meet later --- in the streets --- with those best prepared clearing up any confusion. Wait for it ... and happy New Year lib.com bitches.
"Old persons" have a lot to be happy about. "Young persons" have uncertainty in front of them. To be honest, if I were a "young person," I'd be unhappy about the future in front of me, a future where the greedy corporations have taken over the country.
The observation described in the article is quite old. That is, while people raking in the bucks during the internet boom were young, their elders were still happier. While those same people were young, their elders were happier. While *those* people were young, their elders were happier.
You, provided you have basic needs covered in your old age, which is far from guaranteed, will be happier than your grandkids.
You describe a real problem, but the point of the article still stands.
This is the opposite of my experience. Until recently, every modern US generation had it better than their parents, and knew it. It's only been this century that the realization has sunk in that the standard of living is no longer going up, when things like healthcare, job opportunities, housing costs and debt are considered. We have cheap toys and internet. Everything else is starting to suck.
That average value of a 4-year degree is increased earnings income of $900,000, almost a million dollars.
I graduated with about $3k due mostly to taking a research job that had great experience, but paid poorly for a year,but worked up to three jobs the rest of my college stay. It also took me an extra two years to graduate, but when I did I had four years or hard experience and had a lot of industry connections. I had a good friend, same major who graduated with $55k of debt.That was a lot if money back in the 90's pre dotboom.
Those who did not succeed with those challenges probably died.
Don't trust any concentration of power.
I'm going to suggest a lot of this is backwards. A young person learns to think like an old person by actually living and getting there. In the meantime, a lot of other stuff happens.
1. Plans and dreams and wants disappear, because you either successfully get them, or you learn after decades that you're not going to get them, and give up. This includes the belief that you can still do better than you've already done. Letting go of that lets off a lot of pressure.
2. You have more actual accomplishments and memories to fall back on as you age. These don't exist when you're young.
3. Don't have a job they don't like? How many of them are retired? That's the "job" I want most. Of course I'd be happier doing that. Or, by the time I'm old enough, unless I'm in really dire straits, whatever else I'm doing is probably more out of a sense of fun than for the money.
4. Decreasing sex drive. It may sound sad to the young, but I bed it a ton of ways it's a relief (or at least removes a source of dissatisfaction) from those who are older.
5. Do other appetites decrease? I'm not sure. Certainly the range of possible activities does decrease as you get older. You've learned stuff you don't like, or have ruled out because it's dangerous or no longer interesting. When I was 20, I stayed up late nights wishing I had the money to try skydiving, and being sad that I didn't. At 40, I'm already past the temptation.
There's probably more, but that's what came to mind just reading the summary.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
It's not like I went to either. But I chose not to try getting in either knowing the value I was giving up - not in education but in connections. If you ever want to try and collect VC you're going to have a lot easier time of it with a CS degree from CalTech or MIT, do you deny that?
I attended a college where I enjoyed the people more and thought I would still get a great education, at the time also for not much money after financial aid they provided. I still don't regret that choice but like I said - there is real value in going to top named schools way beyond the quality of education and even as tuition skyrockets for all schools that intangible value still holds for those big name schools.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And then had leeches for children, who see no value in doing anything other than spending every dollar that comes through the door on 'lifestyle', expecting their parents to fund anything 'unexpected' that comes along (like yearly holidays), are desperately looking for a way to bankrupt themselves out of their student debt for their art history and XXXX studies degrees, and just blew half their families money on bitcoin at $20k because it was going to make everyone millionaires in 6 months?
If I was you would would be feeling sorry for them.
BTW, fwiw the people the article is actually about were bordering on retirement during the 'internet boom', and probably didnt even understand what it was then.
They also grew up having to worry that every airplane flying over might have already dropped an H-bomb on their heads, or that that flash might be lightning or it might be Uncle Joe letting fly. That is, an immediate and very realistic possibility that each second, they and everyone they knew would be dead.
Once you don't have that (due largely to the "reagan era" you disparage), yes, you look at things somewhat differently, and don't whine about you trivial inconveniences as you do. You're safe, well-fed, live in incomprehensible luxury compared to almost all generations before you, and you still whine about it and think you are somehow downtrodden and put upon.
A shorter summary of the OP, and from the "older generation", start acting like a grownup and appreciate what you have.
I don't know, if medicare evaporates and we go back to old people dying in the streets that may not work out.
> None went to a job he did not like,
Pretty easy when you don't have alimony payments. Some of us have to work just to pay our court ordered obligations, whether or not we like it. Must be nice to have options.
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
Naturally, there are still things that matter and are worth being concerned about. For example, if poverty became so rampant that social unrest erupted, the economy tanked, banks failed, savings were wiped out, crime exploded, and war eventually broke out... all of a sudden, the prospect of sleeping late, followed by a leisurely brunch and a hike with the dog... might not sound so realistic or even so appealing any more.
Don’t get me wrong: you’re quite right to also enjoy the day and savour the fruits of your past efforts! I only mean to say that, regardless of our age and situation, there are things that really matter and they tend to be the same things. So the problem might not be so much that young people worry excessively about frivolous stuff (though they sure face a lot of pressure to do so, now mostly coming not from nature but from commercial concerns, whose influence I wish could be curbed); rather, it may be that they worry too little about stuff that really matters.
When freed from petty concerns, older generations might be in the position to help their successors pay some serious attention to important issues, ensuring that the insignificant does not displace the significant in younger people’s minds. And it won’t be enough to preach that such and such doesn’t really matter much, son! (That would be roundly rejected.) Instead, through personal engagement, leading by example, affirming and explaining “here is some of the stuff that I believe really matters, and let me tell you why I believe so...”
Spend less than you earn.
Eat less than you burn.
Don't be a dick.
Does it mean over a certain age? Does it mean retired? Does it mean no longer sexually active or interested?
I think that not having to work would make me substantially happier. I've yet to work a job I liked.
I think it's simply learned filtering.
There are hundreds of things to get upset about every single day, from "is my child ever going to pick up their toys?" to "that guy cut me off in traffic" to "I hate our president"...the older people get, they start to likely recognize the secret: not much of that shit really matters. Theresa no reason to let it get to you in a way that affects your happiness.
It's pretty Zen, actually.
-Styopa
When they read that the younger generations are lazy and doing badly.
For example, if...
The answer to your concerns is right there in the summary:
they were resilient and not paralysed by the challenges that came their way
Have a good day.
At 51, I don't consider myself "old", but I am happier now than I have been at any other point in my life. I think with life experience comes perspective and less navel-gazing and more appreciation.
Most of us spent the prime years of our working lives in the '70's and '80s. Read a bit of history to learn how bad things were then, especially the Carter years.
.Older people spent their working years during two major booms (Internet and Housing),
Older people made their money from the 'internet boom'?
Are you on crack cocaine rsilvergun?
No, seriously, are you on crack cocaine?
Who do you think all the investors were? 20 something tech guys with a good idea?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
The anti-paradox of the funding cycle is to refer to anything that puzzles a Mayfly as a paradox.
Young people are stressed because Darwin cares.
After Darwin ceases to care, there's little remaining reason to filter world through the mindset of a eww, gross Valley Girl (old people must hate life because creepy).
Unless you want to fund a silly grant application.
Then you haul out the word "paradox" to show that 20 years of formal education can't fix stupid.
Imagine that.
Being a fractal, it's also the monthly, weekly, daily, hourly, and minutely coin flip ... but who's counting?
Given your average millenial apparently depends on social media for their self-worth, and surrounds themselves with sensationalist crap masquerading as news, what would you expect?
Us older people have simply seen enough to learn to appreciate the finite time we have left and not waste too much of it taking trivial or pointless shit too seriously.
After my first job, I don't think the college I went to mattered much at all, either in terms of getting an interview or a job. What mattered far more was the experience I had working with companies.
Granted finding the first job can be hard, but you can find something if you are willing to bend and settle for at least a year. After that you have a track record you can play into better companies or positions.
Now like I said elsewhere, the college you attended can matter for some contexts, notable raising VC in the valley. But it's not like there's not VC money elsewhere, it's just that you aren't going to be able to find ideas like seven ton juice pressers out in the real world, so you actually have to have valid ideas and a plan to get funding.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Where are the slashdot people who say old people should die because age is miserable?
I guess they can't type and swallow humble pie at the same time.
Hopefully the murderous creeps who promote eugenics just stopped going on the internet and polluting the rest of us.
The book you keep quoting "The Long Tail" was written by Chris Anderson. Mr.Anderson is first and foremost a writer. Though his book "The Long Tail" plays mostly with accepted economic theory his subsequent predictions are way off and as a matter of fact his business dealings since getting the book published don't reflect a great deal of faith in his visions. His subsequent books are of relatively general appeal, not niche writing, and his current business venture is a robotics laboratory.
If Chris Anderson really believed what he says he'd be well poised to publish a shovelwave of niche interest writings dealing with science, technology, and economics but he hasn't done this. He's published nothing but pop-level broad appeal books and articles like you'd find in wired. Since he hasn't put his money where his mouth is, or used the principles in his book to support himself, you have to wonder why he's so popular?
It's easy, he's well connected, moving from publishing work in niche scientific journals, to a spot on the economist, and this his big break was to get brought on as editor for Wired at just the right time, it so it's nothing to get his journalist friends to promote anything he writes until it's making cash. Actually if you look at his writing it's clear he has his head in the clouds, he writes conjecture about whatever's a hot topic of the minute and people buy it.
The most valuable things a guy like Anderson could teach is how to sound interesting and how to leverage your social connections in business. Creimer has no important friends and because he's constantly generating a low effort stream of content, he's actually quite boring. More or less the opposite of everything that makes Mr.Anderson such a success!
Chris Reimer you are a sucker of the first order.
Chris people haven't had time to troll you with the holidays and my post was probably the smartest shit you'll read all day.
In case you missed it Chris Anderson never made it big in business but is wealthy because he continually publishes books that get free promotion from all his chums. He makes most his money shortly after his books are promoted but you are his long tail. Congrats being a tail!
Whatever insignificant thing you worry about and think others might react badly to, it really doesn't fucking matter. Really. It really does not matter. Stop thinking about it and just do whatever you want. If that ends up cutting your life short? So what. You lived a shorter, but more fulfilling life than the 99% of people who can't realise their own needs.
Seriously. Stop being so damn ashamed about and afraid of everything. You want to hug black people and tell them you love them? Just fucking do it already. You want to quit your job and start a business for yourself? Just fucking do it already. You want fulfil your dreams of becoming a woman? Just fucking do it already. You want to break into spontaneous song while waiting in line for ice cream? Just fucking do it already.
The only one life is waiting for is you. Why are you waiting?