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Florida Lawmakers Approve Year-Round Daylight Saving Time (tampabay.com)
JustAnotherOldGuy writes: It seems like we're seeing a sudden outbreak of common sense from one of the most unlikely places. Florida might become the third state -- after Hawaii and Arizona -- to be done with the hassle of changing their clocks twice a year. Yesterday, the Senate overwhelmingly passed the Sunshine Protection Act in under one minute, with only two dissenters. The House had already passed it 103-11 last month. Now it has to be signed by Gov. Rick Scott. If Scott passes it, however, it still has to go through Congress before Florida has Daylight Savings Time all year long.
This needs to be done at the national level or you get a patchwork of states on or off DST . A true PITA for anyone needing to coordinate time across state lines.
Don't they mean "Atlantic Standard Time" ?
- Chuq
Actually, no. It's officially Daylight Saving Time. Yes, the /. editors got it right!
PLEASE bring this to my State (and all States). I am so over changing time twice a year for absolutely no real reason my whole life. And picking to stay on Daylight Saving Time year-round ("permanent daylight saving time" is the best possible choice. I am very jealous. And yet, this could be the start of something great...
-Changing time-
Saves energy: FALSE
Helps farmers: FALSE
Gives extra sleep: FALSE
Reduces accidents: FALSE
Causes lots of lost productivity: TRUE
Causes a nightmare for people with sleep disorders: TRUE
Causes minor health problems even for normal people: TRUE
Generates a lot of hassle and confusion: TRUE
Hurts the economy: TRUE
Speak for yourself, I'm a night owl. Screw waking up at 5-6 am to get ready for work.
Or then again, it could be Daylight's Savings Thyme. Or Daylites Sayvings Times. Whatever you call it, I'd like to be rid of it.
Other than sunrise, sunset, and high noon, all of our measured time is "fake". Since the clocks don't care, might as well set them conveniently.
I agree - time of sunrise and sunset should be symmetrical around noon.
Solar noon/midnight should be as close to 12am/pm as possible.
You live on a planet whose axis of rotation is tilted with respect to its orbital plane - get over it. Maybe you should consider a move to the tropics ;-)
He meant to say Auld Lang Syne.
https://youtu.be/Hm1hwxc92Mo?t...
n/t
Why?
Sounds all wonderful until you realize that the sun isn't up until after 10am in the winter in a lot of places by pushing that clock ahead like that. That lack of daylight in the morning disrupts your body's natural sleep cycle,causing you to be more tired, and has pronounced negative effects on one's mood and oversell health. There's a reason we should be keeping our clocks synchronized with solar time.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
not DST? If you're not setting your clocks back/forward it's not really DST is it?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Did they just pass a law saying agreeing to send the entire state of Florida into the future by one hour? I don't think the technology exists to do that. Just kidding. But seriously, how about make the time be what time it actually is?
Florida will probably get shot down.
Too soon?
Right, because bouncing the clocks around twice a year is not confusing at all.
Because time is the measure of a day's progress -- faking it to appease stupid people who can't change their or their employees working/school hours is just lying to oneself.
Sounds good on paper, but it sucks up north. Getting dark at 4:30 PM is just shit.
The less your opinion about Daylight Savings matters.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
It remains a measure of the day's progress even if the sun reaches it's height at 1. Even with the current timezones, there are very few places where solar noon coincides with exactly 12:00:00 anyway.
"Getting dark at 4:30 PM is just shit."
Why, exactly? Do you think DST somehow provides more daylight? Get off your lazy ass and get up earlier (in wall clock time) to enjoy the full day.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
It's still going to get dark at 4:30PM. You live in northern latitudes, the days get far shorter in the winter and far longer in the summer. That's how the planet works.
You can call it something else, but that doesn't change how time works and how day and night works. If you want longer days in the winter, you're going to have to change the planet's tilt, and good luck with that.
Might as well not fragment time zones further.
Sounds good on paper, but it sucks up north. Getting dark at 4:30 PM is just shit.
As someone who lives in Toronto, Canada, I'm fine with year-round Standard Time.
We live in a post-Edison / post-(Nikola)-Tesla world: turn on the damn lights. The last time it was truly "dark" here was during the 2003 blackout.
Someone's listening to sense anyway. It's a start at least.
Right, because bouncing the clocks around twice a year is not confusing at all.
Changing the clocks is confusing twice a year. Having different time than neighboring states is confusing for at least five months per year.
I'd rather have more clock time daylight in the evening so i can do things outside after work.
Hopefully the Domino Theory will come into effect and neighboring states will follow suit and force congress to allow states to choose to stay on DST forever. It probably would have been easier to just stay on Standard Time... maybe that was their plan. Make it look like they're changing things while doing it the hard way so that it just stays the same. Not that I'm jaded or anything.
Why does it matter what time it gets dark? Get up and go to work earlier so you can leave sooner if it's that much of a concern. Calling the point in time that it gets dark 2:30 PM, 8:30 PM, or 5:15 AM doesn't change the total amount of daylight that you get. If you really think you absolutely need to be in sync with the southern states to get business done, then that's a price you'll have to pay.
No.
Nobody gets up an extra hour before work and does a little bit of personal stuff with the whole workday looming in front of them.
>"Why does it matter what time it gets dark? Get up and go to work earlier so you can leave sooner if it's that much of a concern."
You act as if most of us CAN set what time we go to work. And that is not reality.
We just need to change the axial tilt of the earth. Why has this simple solution not been adopted already?
Why is Snark Required?
They did it this way because it has no effect. It's making a statement while doing nothing.
If they had gone to permanent standard time, it could have taken effect without the approval of the US Congress. But actually changing time zones requires the approval of Congress.
It would be hilarious if Congress approved it and everybody else just switched to standard so they could be the oddballs with primetime showing from 9 to 12 instead of 8 to 11. Kind of appropriate in Floriduh.
>"If you want to stay on the same time all year around, stay on Standard Time. Being in a fake time zone an hour ahead of solar time is almost as stupid as changing time artificially 2x a year."
No it isn't. All time is "fake". MOST of the year, we are in DST, and that *is* the time during those months. Being on DST is much more convenient for the vast majority of people- regardless of the month. If time is a construct and we can make it so we don't keep changing it AND we can make it more convenient and enjoyable at the same time by staying on DST, then why not do it? I don't give a damn if the sun is at its highest at noon.... I expect most don't care. I DO care about not having to get up in the dark AND getting home in the dark in the winter months, and moving to DST permanently would help with that. Besides, those living close to a different time zone are already a minimum of almost an hour off of high noon being high sun for ALL of the year.
It has nothing to do with whether you like your job, nor with how smug you are about your own occupation.
It's the combination of trying to do something useful an/or enjoyable while you're still bleary from sleep along with knowing that it will be interrupted in less than an hour.
Shouldn't Florida consider staying on standard time year round? (Panhandle excepted) With year round DST in Jacksonville (most populous) and Miami (highest GDP for metro), the sun won't come up until 8:15, or 8:25 in the early days of January. This seems like a major drawback to the morning commute. Florida is naturally blessed with longer days than most states due to its southern geography. It probably can "afford" to not have to start its days in darkness (like the northern states do). Further, if Florida decides to go to DST year round (or Atlantic Time as many have accurately pointed out) that will put it to the EAST of the Eastern Timezone for several months a year, putting it east of NYC/DC/Boston. This doesn't make a ton of logical geographical sense, but worse, it fragments the country to 5 major time zones (sorry HI/AK). It's hard to imagine this not hurting Florida economically, to be decoupled from the major economic centers. (I'm not sure entirely on this point, but there was a study a few months ago about how there would be economic benefit to getting the country down to 2 timezones.)
Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
They should just do away with time zones and make everyplace the same time. I don't like the fact that where I live Monday Night Football comes on at 5pm and Saturday Night Live starts at like 8:30. When I go online a 10pm to fuck around with my friends back in the Midwest or East Coast, they're all like, "Oh, we're sleeping because it's one in the morning." Fuck that.
Starting Sunday at 2am, the entire world has to go on Pacific Standard Time. No, make that, Pacific Daylight Time.
And put Saturday morning cartoons back on the networks. I mean, what the fuck is wrong with whoever decided to take cartoons off Saturday morning? Motherfucker, do I come over there and mess with your life?
Now excuse me, I gotta go get a refill and go pee. Save my spot.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's going to get dark early in the winter no matter what. Half the state is pissed that it is dark early, but you turn on DST and then the other half of the state is pissed that it's still dark in the morning. If you don't like it being dark at 4:30 then just wake up one hour early, go to work one hour early, and go home one hour early. It's just like DST except that you don't have to do unnatural acts with the clock.
If you think that you get more daylight just by moving the clock ahead, then try telling the boss that you are working an extra hour by moving the clocks ahead.
You know, I think the flat earthers are on to something here. Equal daylight for everyone!
Well, by that logic, why even have time zones in the first place? Put everyone in the world on the same time and eliminate confusion. The sun would be at its peak at 7am instead in parts of the US.
Before they had time zones, it was pretty much established in most of the western world that 12:00am was when the sun was the highest. That's how they set the clocks. When it took several hours to ride a horse to the next town then the time difference wasn't much of a bother. But with railroads it became more annoying, and the railroads set up the timezones in order to have better consistency with each town and provide better schedules.
Your opinion matters less if you are closer to equator? Now that's just mean to the equators. I demand equal opportunity for equators!
/joke
They had to cacel the DST, but not make it permanent. Now it will be total confusion. Some countries cancel it, some make it permanent.
I suppose you could use standard time for everything north of about 45 and then offset everything by an hour for everything closer to the equator, but I suspect that would have a lot of logistical problems.
Of course, one could also offset the problems of a later sunrise by starting work later in the winter, but that would entirely offset the benefits of a later sunset, so in the end, the simplest solution is probably the best one: leave the clocks fixed to reflect solar time.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
http://www.google.com/search?q..."why+ask+why%3F"+bud :P
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
If people would just switch to UNIX time we wouldn't have this problem.
I live in FL and normally love DST. I've been told I'm an OG programmer, and I'm up late and sleep in. I don't care about the morning, and like it when it stays light later.
However, I don't see how FL being on AST all year will work? TV networks aren't going to devote a satellite/fiber feed just for Florida, and although it seems like stations *should* be able to timeshift easily, there's not often a process for this ("we now join our regularly scheduled programming, already in progress").
So, primetime will end at midnight, followed by local news? What about local sporting events that are covered by networks? Monday Night Football will end an hour later (locally)?
Not significantly more weird than having 11:59 am immediately followed by 12:00 pm. That would be daft, surely no one would come up with a time keeping system that stupid.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
Noon is when the sun is at its peak
Yes, at one single given longitude in any timezone. Otherwise the sun isn't at its peak at noon. Also who really cares where the sun is at noon? It could be the middle of the night at noon and all the office workers stuck indoors unable to flex away from their regulated 9-5s wouldn't give a crap. But give people an extra hour of sunlight in the afternoon is a major change in lifestyle in a positive way too.
Now Florida already has enough sun, but there are many parts of the world that could benefit from this kind of change and with it tangibly improve afterwork life, reduce SAD, and reduce Vitamin D deficiency. (Though I think Florida may see a skin cancer increase as a result of this).
I agree - time of sunrise and sunset should be symmetrical around noon.
Why?
Get up and go to work earlier so you can leave sooner
Oh look, a person of privilege. Guess what, the vast majority of people's lives don't work like that.
Because time is the measure of a day's progress
It is nothing of the sort. Time is just a system used to synchronise activities between people.
Given how most of the complaints about daylight savings are about the clock switching and that they are adopting it, what makes this decision flawed? Your arbitrary idea that noon should be the time when the sun is highest? Guess what, no one cares about that. Hell in my country the closest the sun at its highest point is to noon is winter solstice, and then it's just shy of 1pm. In summer it's 2pm, and no one gives a crap.
People however do give a crap that they can walk in the park and enjoy sunlight at 6pm after work.
As for your complaint about traditional daily routine being rigid, yes that's kind of the point. Time exists because of routine. There needed to be a way to synchronise activities between humans in order for a society to properly function. Did that surprise you? No Time does not exist so someone can figure out 12pm is the high point of the sun. That's just arbitrary. What's not arbitrary is the restrictions most people have on their worktime, or how much they enjoy sunlight, or vitamin D deficiencies further north because of the stupidity of winter time.
Why?
Convention. Symmetry makes some easier calculations Not more, not less. But the whole concept of measurable time is human made, so probably any convention would work somehow.
I like DST in the summer, but it's a convention. And as with all conventions: Feel free to ignore it and do your own stuff. They are not mandatory, but it just makes life much easier when interacting people use the same ones. Go ahead and split your day between sunset and sunrise into 42 flumps! If you schedule your breakfast at 2 flump, it will always be in sync with the break of daylight. Farmers and cows would probably love that! (I heard it confuses both when they do a hard adjust of milking times twice a year) Have your farm running on flump time! Work 30 flumps every day and your working hours will adopt to available daylight and amount of work neccessary on your farm.
But you can us flumps as office worker, too. You only need to accept that your regular 9-5 jobs starts at a different flump time every day and that in winter you have to work way more flumps at the office than in winter. (which corrosponds to the fact that you spent a smaller fraction of daylight at the office during summer when days are longer but you're on 8 hr days)
bickerdyke
Am I missing something? 12:00 am is midnight.
It would be pretty weird to have 12:00 am immediately followed by 12:01 pm.
Now that you mention it, it's no less weird than having 11:59am followed by 12:00 pm. But if 12:00 is noon, it is technically neither ante or post noon (meridian)
bickerdyke
I'd be fine with the whole country staying sprung ahead.
Never claimed anything revolutionary. I suspect most people would rather stay with timezones. It's one thing to have high noon at 1:00 P.M. and work starts at 9:00 A.M., wuite another to have high noon at 3:00 A.M.
That hasn't been true for a very long time due to artificial lighting. If work actually started based on natural waking time, few would need alarm clocks and practically nobody over the age of 20 would hit the snooze button.
I live in the Central Time zone. Today when I leave for work it will be daylight. When I leave Monday morning it will still be dark. I could go along with the time change IF they waited about a month to do it.
I have plenty of daylight left after work right now and a month from now I'll have more, but a month from now it would be daylight when I leave for work. Just wait until about April 15 to change it and I'll be a happy camper.
Isn't that exactly what ships at sea do ?
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
If you have perfect 1 hour timezones then noon with be with the sun overhead +/- 30 minutes. In practice timezones are not perfect by any stretch, they tend to follow political boundaries.
A few countries have fractional timezones, like +8 hours 15 minutes or something, but I imagine they also have a lot of problems with broken software.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
If they are permanently in DST, why not create a new timezone and forget about DST
Noon is when the sun is at its peak, and changing that is foolish. If people want more daylight after work is done, then they should push for working hours to change to 8-4.
Here in Finland, traditional office hours are 8am to 4pm (or as we call them, 8 to 16), and many people still want their idiotic DST.
DST is really a "solution" to a particularly stubborn set of requirements: (a) I want to go work earlier, and (b) I still want the clock to show the same time as I start work. Even if that means changing the entire system of measurements for everyone.
While (b) is downright stupid, I'm not even sure if (a) is a good thing for most people. The argument is about getting more free time in the evenings, at the expense of being even more tired at work. All this while governments are keen to increase national productivity.
While we're at it, let's change measures of length for the summer because of thermal expansion.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Another reason never to go to Florida now. Living on the east coast and heading south, we shouldn't have to change our timezone half of the year. I'm all for states rights in many cases, but this isn't one of them. Do it as a nation, or don't do it, but don't do it piecemeal, state by state.
Just another day in Paradise
"Getting dark at 4:30 PM is just shit."
Why, exactly? Do you think DST somehow provides more daylight? Get off your lazy ass and get up earlier (in wall clock time) to enjoy the full day.
What a lame comment. People who work for a living don't often get to select their working hours. The vast majority get stuck driving into work in the dark, and then driving home at dark in the winter. It's not about "more daylight", it's about being able to use some of it, when you're not stuck at the office.
Just another day in Paradise
No.
In the modern Western world, we work on a 9-5 schedule (or thereabouts). DST was invented to shift more daylight hours in the summer to the afternoon and evening, so that people could enjoy this daylight after work. Otherwise, a lot of the daylight hours would be very early in the morning, when most people are asleep or getting ready for/going to work.
So going to DST year-round actually makes sense, because it permanently shifts daylight into the afternoon, i.e. into after-work hours. I don't care how far that puts nominal noon away from real/solar noon, because time-keeping is anyway just a convention made up to make people's lives easier. So we can bend this convention a bit to suit our present purposes. Moving to DST permanently is easier than getting everyone to switch to working 7-3 or whatever.
It is very sunny there, and being further south they have less variation in the length of their day.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I checked three books on chronobiology out of my local library late yesterday morning, and by the time I went to bed—at 19:00, because I'm presently resetting my sleep clock—I had read 80% of the first book, the meatiest chapter of the second book (the most technical of the three books), and about 25% of the third book.
The problem with with cramming all this at the end of a long day (all this reading took place after an intense ten hours at the keyboard) is that while I remember quite a bit, it's all halfway blended together until I sit down with all these books again, to properly sort provenance.
Basically I over-filled my memory bucket yesterday until it was splashing out all over the floor. According to one of my recent sleep science excursions, a major reason that memory degrades with sleep deprivation is that your short-term bucket doesn't get enough opportunity to empty out, through the sleep system that relays short-term memory into long-term cortical storage. In computer science, on a hash collision you either chain or rehash. In wetware, you just use the same partially occupied bucket, but with a lower margin of signal to noise. The margin of signal to noise declines throughout the waking interval, as more and more unfiled short-term memories stack up to compete with inbound data.
My three books, as ordered above:
* Internal Time (2012) by Till Roenneberg
* Rhythms of Life (2004) by Russell Foster
* Chronotherapy: Resetting Your Inner Clock to Boost Mood, Alertness, and Quality Sleep (2012) by Michael Terman
Turns out, Roenneberg and Foster are members of the mutual blurb club. This was pretty funny, because the Foster's blurb on Roenneberg's book doesn't really say who he is, it basically reads: Some Guy, Oxford University. I went to myself, "who the hell is this guy, really?" because that's not normal blurb etiquette (axe murder, body odour, what are they hiding?).
An hour later I picked up Foster's book, made the instant connection, "ah, that's who is, I bet's he's got a Roenneblurb on his own back cover" and sure enough, there it was.
Anyway, that's a long-winded way to explain that this three-headed book monster contains some of the deepest material on DST I've yet to come across. Wish I could accurately relate which and where.
Roenneberg is the data scientist of the three, and he has a huge database that covers unified Germany. So large, he can actually plot a linear relationship between German longitude and individual chronophase (it really is a linear relationship moving west to east, almost entirely indifferent to the social time zone, which one can see by comparing West Germany with former East Germany, which share many points of longitude, while operating—at least during much of the data collection phase—in different socially constructed time zones).
The shocking chart (I'm pretty sure now this is another Roenneberg) was phase adjustment at the biannual standard/daylight adjustment boundaries. The chronophase of larks took four full weeks to fully adapt to the onset of DST, while the owls never returned to the same phase structure on DST that they had previously had on ST. (I was too groggy at this point to precisely factor out the pros and cons of a typical owl's before/after phase structure; the narrative seemed to imply that after was worse, without giving direct justification.)
One thing to note, however, is that whether a person prefers a year-round DST or ST logically depends on a mixture of chronotype and which edge of the time zone a person inhabits (it's the same one hour shift accomplished either legislatively or geographically—even if you colour government evil, your biological clock is too ideologically deficient to detect this all-powerful moral discriminant).
Also, the issue of DST is logically different for a nation which is exactly one hour wide, and whether it nests snugly inside one natural time zone, or str
I agree - time of sunrise and sunset should be symmetrical around noon.
In order to actually achieve this, you would have to change time zones every couple of miles...by some small amount, minutes, seconds, whatever.
You do realize that time zones are ALSO a convention, don't you? You don't think that when you cross that bridge in Florida which is the boundary between Central and Eastern time that on one side of the bridge, the sun is at its highest point one hour earlier than on the other side of the bridge? You realize that time zones were invented exactly in order to PREVENT people from setting their clocks "naturally" based on the sun at their location, since that created a total mess and made it very difficult if not impossible to keep to things such as train schedules? So time zones were invented to "artificially" divide the Earth into 1 hour-sized chunks with defined borders so we can always know which time it is in a particular location and have that consistent?
...then the other half of the state is pissed that it's still dark in the morning
Said nobody, ever. Seriously, have you ever heard that complaint?
Just another day in Paradise
Without daylight savings time we would get sunrise at 4:45 am in some places in June.
my opportunity to freely express myself with the potential persecution and hangings and such
This needs to be done at the national level or you get a patchwork of states on or off DST . A true PITA for anyone needing to coordinate time across state lines.
We already have a patchwork of states doing their own thing with DST and you didn't really notice. Arizona doesn't do DST. Which states are in which time zones is moderately arbitrary. Indiana, Michigan, Kentucky and Tennessee, North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Idaho and Oregon all have the time zone boundaries not tied to state boundaries. Having some places observe DST and not others is barely different than living near a time zone boundary. It's all slightly annoying but genuinely not the end of the world.
I think year round DST is a great idea. Maximize the daylight in the evening when it is of the most value to the most people.
Yes. And?
Well, given that the state does not even want something closest to natural time, where the sun is at the highest point closest to noon, but instead wants the artificial DST in effect permanently, is weird.
There is no such thing as "natural time". The definition of noon as the point when the sun is highest in the sky is an arbitrary convention. Arbitrary conventions can and should be changed when no longer sensible. It is no longer particularly useful in today's world. Given that most people get up in the morning and head straight to work and spend essentially all their free time in the evening, it makes a huge amount of sense to adjust our clocks to deal with that reality. Maximize free time when the most people can get the most value from it.
It's Florida! People on the beach don't care what time it is, the retirees don't care what time it is, so why insist on DST?
Right because nobody in Florida actually goes to work. Everyone in the state is a beach bum or a retiree... You should be able to hear my eyes rolling about now.
If DST is a pain, why not get rid of it?
They are getting rid of it. It's the twice per year change that is the hassle. So they are getting rid of the pointless change and going with the time definition that makes the most sense. DST year round makes a ton of sense.
Because time is the measure of a day's progress -- faking it to appease stupid people who can't change their or their employees working/school hours is just lying to oneself.
Time progresses regardless. You didn't answer the question. Why does it matter what we define noon as? Why can't we define 1PM as the time when the sun is highest? It's an equally valid and equally arbitrary convention but one that carries greater utility for most people. Your argument is basically "that's the way we've always done it" which is almost always a stupid argument.
faking it to appease stupid people who can't change their or their employees working/school hours is just lying to oneself.
Ok smart guy. Explain how we get millions of schools and businesses to change their work hours simultaneously just so we can keep your pointless defintion of noon being the point in the day when the sun is highest. Oh that's right, the easiest way is to change the time zone convention.
Well, by that logic, why even have time zones in the first place?
Because time zones do have utility and nobody is making stupid and irrelevant arguments that they don't. Plus good luck getting rid of time zones at this point. How about we stick to the reality we actually live in and do things that are actually possible and useful?
It's not that people care what the clock says. It's that most people don't get to choose when they go to work, and legislating what times jobs start would be an impracticable disaster of governmental micromanagement.
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My internal clock won't let me get tired until 11p-1a and I need a solid 8-9 hours of sleep to function correctly. Even if I get 2-3 hours of sleep the night before, I have extreme difficulty being able to fall sleep before ~11p. Someone at my work has it worse. She can't get to sleep until 1a-4a and has seen many doctors about it.
I wish sleeping was as easy as getting physically exhausted then closing my eyes.
[quote]outbreak of common sense from one of the most unlikely places.[quote]
:
Oh. You must be one of those who believes that inanimate objects causes people to do things. Right.
Don't believe the hype
News channels which say: "Hey look at this AR-15" (Oops. It was a fuking shotgun)
Or how about the chainsaw attachment (According to USA Today)
Next thing you know you'll be trying to ban 4 wheel-drive assault motorcycles.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Only white man, could cut bottom off blanket, sew it to top, and think he have longer blanket. Just put the clocks at one time and leave them the hell alone!
When we spring forward, I lose an hour of sleep. We should lose that hour in the middle of the workweek instead. I'd still lose an hour of sleep, but it would be in the middle of a boring meeting.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
If all the other states are doing it, it isn't so bad, but if you are out of sync with the other states, makes interstate commerce a bit more challenging.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I'll bite ... why is Florida one of the most unlikely places to show common sense?
Because it isn't NY or CA? (Those bastions of common sense?)
I collect and restore antique mechanical clocks for a hobby. Currently, I have about 11 clocks running in the household, and bulk changing them twice a year is a pain, particularly the fall back part. Most mechanical clocks don't turn back gracefully, you have to go clockwise 11 hours to reset them. Also, being a cranky retiree, I look forward to yelling "Get Off My Lawn!" at neighborhood kids even later in the extended daylight. Being a Florida resident, I welcome my time defining overlords.
What, me worry?
legislating what times jobs start would be an impracticable disaster of governmental micromanagement.
Heh, it already is, even if they are effecting the same change via DST. At least that's how I understand micromanagement -- unnecessary and annoying control when the individual worker knows much better.
In this case, you have a group of people that are genuinely happier to start work earlier than usual, but they still choose jobs with fixed hours. Their "solution" is a government mandate that everyone must start work an hour earlier, no matter what. If that isn't some kind of micromanagement, I'm not sure what is.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
If you don't like it being dark at 4:30 then just wake up one hour early, go to work one hour early, and go home one hour early.
You do realize almost nobody has a job that allows this, right? On many of my job assignments, going to work an hour early would mean waiting at a locked gate for a while. And at many (most?) jobs, the work day starts with the 7:00am safety meeting. If you are there at 6:00, you can't pick up your tools and do any work before the safety meeting. And if you work at any kind of operator (or monitoring, security, customer service) type job, it doesn't matter when you started, you leave when your replacement arrives to take over. Most people don't come to work at a computer and shuffle bytes all day.
No we're not.
We're in bed by 21:00.
#DeleteFacebook
It's spelled Daylights Saving Thyme
I prefer parsley and sage, you insensitive clod!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Without daylight savings time we would get sunrise at 4:45 am in some places in June.
So get up earlier.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Because Eratosthenes, that's why :p Give the man some credit.
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
oh that's not good.. it's the Daylight Savings Time that is not the original time, and to be honest, I have more problems during the DST period than the normal period..It should go back to the original time, otherwise in the wintertime the time you have in the light is even much shorter.. But than again, politicians aren't really smart and they only start workingr 10 and stop working before 16:00, so for them it doesn't really matter for them, they always only work during the light............
So apparently just scheduling everything an hour earlier all year 'round wasn't an option? (Don't get me started on how stupid Daylight Savings Time is... it breaks all the sundials too.)
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Good Muslims set their watches to midnight at sundown every day...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Too much signage would have to change, too many other changes to various records and policies.
And do what with my earlier time? It's not like I can start a variable length activity in the morning. Maybe I'll get up at 6am and mow the lawn, will that make you happier? I'm sure it will.
I set whatever bed time I want. I also am capable of using my brain to think about more than one narrow topic at the time. I suggest you try it sometime. Or did your neurons stop growing too early? If so we have some bad news for you. https://science.slashdot.org/s...
This is one of the top 5 things I would change first as President (still waiting on the winning lottery ticket so I can run without owing anybody anything).
Others are stuff like:
- Implement the Metric System
- Term limits for all elected offices, especially Congress/Senate
- Net neutrality, forever
- Redo the tax system, make it all fit within a few pages (or tens of pages), not thousands. Probably a flat tax or a luxury tax, need tax/economic advisors to assist.
- Reduction if not complete removal of money as a factor in elections
- Create an actual militia to help out with gun control
- Completely changing the military promotion system (no auto-officer for college anymore, elitism crap).
- Close Gitmo
- Stop attacking the world
- Peace with NK already
etc, etc.
Got 2 tickets, both $175M or higher cash (minus taxes). Cross your fingers!
The right way to do this is to eliminate DST, not make it permanent.
That is the worst of all the possible options that have been presented, and is really the only reason why those who fight for the preservation of DST do so.
Rural people and the poor benefit from daylight savings, because it saves money on utility bills.
The poor aren't likely to be affected one way or another, and rural people DON'T CARE, because they never paid attention to the hour of the day in the morning. They got up at dawn, whenever it is, as the exact time changes a small amount every day.
Changing the clocks is confusing twice a year. Having different time than neighboring states is confusing for at least five months per year.
In the past you would have been correct, but almost no one stores that information anymore. MOST people just ask Google what time it is in whatever city they are currently thinking about calling, or travelling to.
This foolishness costs millions in lost productivity each year, and the number of auto accidents increases for a week after both spring and fall time changes. All this downside for zero upside.
It is long past time for this foolishness to end.
First law of people: People are generally stupid.
What's bad is the shifting back and forth. DST is actually better that standard time from an across-the-year perspective..
Solar noon/midnight should be as close to 12am/pm as possible.
Where?
Depends I guess.
As tide charts usually are in local time, I see no point in sticking to GMT.
Put perhaps they, do, no idea.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
That is why most of the world uses 24 hours ...
I find it rather weird that people at some places (e.g. Thailand) still regularily use AM and PM
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Well,
my GF lives in Thailand. That is 6:00 away from me.
With time zones I can easy calculate when she is likely awake.
Without timezones I have to memorize when she is awake.
Obviously I still again only would need to memorize the 6h difference ... but it would be somehow strange in my mind.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
(I heard it confuses both when they do a hard adjust of milking times twice a year)
Except that they don't do that. What would be the point?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Regarding work hours you could change the laws. Or introduce laws where you have none.
I for my part have no fixed hours when I have to show up at work.
As long as my time period overlaps significantly enough with my coworkers and I'm present at meetings, that is fine.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Actually no.
As my body is on a 29,5 hour rhythm and I can not find sleep when I go to bed "early".
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
but I imagine they also have a lot of problems with broken software.
Not really.
Most operation systems handle time zones quite fine. And it is long a go that MS office software programs where in the news because of wrong handled time zones.
However the shift from and to DST causes a lot of headaches (and bugs).
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
"Mommy! Why is the earth rotating?"
"Whats up with you kid, did you suck from the spirits bottle again?"
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Will you turn your clocks back an hour before going to bed Saturday night?
Of course not. That would make me 2 hours late for everything!
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
> DST is the invention of Nazi Germany where the hope was that they would
> save resources by making people get up earlier and have fuller use of daylight.
Obviously didn't do too well in history in school. The German Empire and Austria-Hungary introduced DST (Sommerzeit)) on April 30, 1916. The Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National-Socialist German Workers Party) arose after WWI.
BTW, one of the biggest propaganda coups ever by the MSM, was conflating a socialist workers party (and its atrocities) with right-wingers in the public mind. The Nazis were socialists, and nationalized banks, etc.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Yes, I have. From parents whose kids are walking to school in the dark.. Especially after congress changed to have DST end in November. A few weeks in and people get used to it.
This also depends upon where you are. It may be pitch black on one area of the US, and then within the same time zone the sun will be fully up over the horizon.
I said half, not 50% :-) As in, when I was a kid and I got 3/4s of a cookie and my friend got 1/4, I'd say "this is my half, and that's your half". Of course, he's been unable to properly do math throughout his life because of me.
A big reason to have a federal mandate (or occasionally state) is to get past manager's inertia and avoid nobody wanting to be the first mover who opens an hour before anyone cares and closes an hour before the competition. By moving the clock instead, everyone moves together and managers don't have to actually change anything to make it happen. Nobody has to reprint signage.
AZ and HI are smart, stay on standard time all year. FL is stupid, want to go on DST all year. The US tried this in the mid-70s, it was a disaster. Fortunately, it will take an act of Congress before this becomes real, which won't happen.
I don't know anyone who works 9-5. Not even a 40 hour week. 8-5, 7:30-4:30, maybe. Not 9-5.
No stinking DST!
Agree, get rid of DST!
Yes, many of us want daylight in the early morning.
I thought the biggest coup was getting people to conflate political systems, economic systems, and social status systems into one term. Go figure!
We already do here in Saskatchewan, Canada. Not really a big deal itâ(TM)s still light out until 9 or 10.
Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?
Around here (New-Caledonia) marine weather forecast is in UTC.
It seems to be the same in Australia : http://www.bom.gov.au/products...
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
Lunch is for the weak.
Just give in to those who whine a bitch too much. Oh it's too hard to change clocks. bla bla bla.
Should be STFU, change 'em. You know it's the right thing to do. No, you're not a victim. Shut up.
I never got that. But why are they complaining thai DST messes up their milking schedule then?
bickerdyke
In going ahead one hour permanently, Florida effectively moves to the Atlantic Time zone, but won't use Daylight Saving Time.
Only boring people are ever bored.
Because they milk at a different time of the day.
Suppose you milk 5:00 in the morning and 17:00 afternoon.
Now with DST on you have to milk at 4:00 and 16:00. Perhaps your kids come home from school at 16:00 and you are busy with milking ...
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
US Navy ships pick a reasonable time zone close to solar time on the open ocean, and the time zone for the next/previous port call when near land. UTC is used for scheduling between ships and other activities as occasionally they may be operating with a ship that is observing a different time zone.
Wait wait wait.... now... ARE they adjusting the milking times according to DST or aren't they?
bickerdyke
I am for it. I have digital timers that are not "Atomic". Atomic in this sense is the timer that listens to the low frequency transmitted time-signal, and corrects itself. So, twice a year I do the tour of heating systems, a/c systems, lighting systems and access control stuff.
I would just like to set the time once and forget it until the batteries fail
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
The only people I know are shift workers. If a factory runs 24/7, then you get three shifts of 8 hours. Though it tends to be more like 7-3 for first shift than 9-5.
Office workers have been 9 hour shifts with an unpaid hour lunch for a long time now.
I've never understood why places that are really far north (or south) bother with DST. I can kind of see why from about 30 to 60 degrees from the equator, but once you get close enough to the poles the difference in daylight between winter and summer is so extreme what's the point of shifting your clocks around by an hour twice a year?
In Europe they usually are not.
Why would they? That was the original question.
If you milk your cows 5:00 UTC and 17:00 UTC, you do that regardless of ordinary or DST at exact those times.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
In Europe they usually are not.
Why would they? That was the original question.
If you milk your cows 5:00 UTC and 17:00 UTC, you do that regardless of ordinary or DST at exact those times.
I AM posting from Europe.
And I completely agree that that would be an easy way to avoid DST related problems on farms. But still, "cows confused by changing milking times" is one of the major points in every article that tries to get rid of DST.
If you say they don't, the "why" is a pretty obvious conclusion: The actual problem is solved since ever (by sticking to UTC milking times - or probably rather a propriatary farm time that corrosponds not with UTC but with non-DST local time) and the argument as a con-DST point is pure BS.
bickerdyke
Get up and go to work earlier so you can leave sooner if it's that much of a concern.
Is it safe for me to assume that this is how you deal with your summers? You change your clock, but keep the original circadian schedule and just go in to work and do everything else an hour later for those 7 months?
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
But still, "cows confused by changing milking times" is one of the major points in every article that tries to get rid of DST.
I guess most articles simply are "fear mongering" (for the lack of a better word).
The main problems for farmers are that they stick to the rhythm of the day, but the world around them shifts an hour. That is e.g. a problem with kids going to school or kindergarden.
The real problems of DST are train schedules and power plant schedules. Power plants because of notorious software bugs, train schedules because when DST was introduced and you had an extra hour, the trains simply stopped next train station for one hour.
I guess there are plenty more, but those tow I have on my mind :D
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
So, are you are proposing 1440 timezones, so that everyone's solar noon matches 12:00pm, or are you reserving that special characteristic for just a small sliver of people in each time zone?