Slashdot Mirror
Are Two Spaces After a Period Better Than One? (arstechnica.com)
Researchers at Skidmore College conducted an eye-tracking experiment with 60 Skidmore students and found that two spaces at the end of a period slightly improved the processing of text during reading. Ars Technica reports the findings: Previous cognitive science research has been divided on the issue. Some research has suggested closer spacing of the beginning of a new sentence may allow a reader to capture more characters in their parafoveal vision -- the area of the retina just outside the area of focus, or fovea -- and thus start processing the information sooner (though experimental evidence of that was not very strong). Other prior research has inferred that an extra space prevents lateral interference in processing text, making it easier for the reader to identify the word in focus. But no prior research found by [study authors] Johnson, Bui, and Schmitt actually measured reader performance with each typographic scheme.
First, they divided their group of 60 research subjects by way of a keyboard task -- the subjects typed text dictated to them into a computer and were sorted into "one-spacers" (39 regularly put a single space between sentences) and "two-spacers" (21 hit that space bar twice consistently after a period). Every student subject used but a single space after each comma. Having identified subjects' proclivities, the researchers then gave them 21 paragraphs to read (including one practice paragraph) on a computer screen and tracked their eye movement as they read using an Eyelink 1000 video-based eye tracking system. [...] The "one-spacers" were, as a group, slower readers across the board (by about 10 words per minute), and they showed statistically insignificant variation across all four spacing practices. And "two-spacers" saw a three-percent increase in reading speed for paragraphs in their own favored spacing scheme. The controversial part of the study has to do with the 14 point Courier New font that the researchers presented to the students. "Courier New is a fixed-width font that resembles typewritten text -- used by hardly anyone for documents," reports Ars. "Even the APA suggests using 12 point Times Roman, a proportional-width font. Fixed-width fonts make a double-space more pronounced."
First, they divided their group of 60 research subjects by way of a keyboard task -- the subjects typed text dictated to them into a computer and were sorted into "one-spacers" (39 regularly put a single space between sentences) and "two-spacers" (21 hit that space bar twice consistently after a period). Every student subject used but a single space after each comma. Having identified subjects' proclivities, the researchers then gave them 21 paragraphs to read (including one practice paragraph) on a computer screen and tracked their eye movement as they read using an Eyelink 1000 video-based eye tracking system. [...] The "one-spacers" were, as a group, slower readers across the board (by about 10 words per minute), and they showed statistically insignificant variation across all four spacing practices. And "two-spacers" saw a three-percent increase in reading speed for paragraphs in their own favored spacing scheme. The controversial part of the study has to do with the 14 point Courier New font that the researchers presented to the students. "Courier New is a fixed-width font that resembles typewritten text -- used by hardly anyone for documents," reports Ars. "Even the APA suggests using 12 point Times Roman, a proportional-width font. Fixed-width fonts make a double-space more pronounced."
Is it any wonder that the brain is optimized for 2 spaces after a period?
There's probably a part of the brain which is totally optimized for recognizing that particular text cue by the time you have read a few thousand sentences.
It's a fixed format font- so it will be different for proportional fonts and the sites I use already display both single and multiple spaces after a period as 'about 2 spaces". They don't alter the textual data- they just alter the way the text is displayed.
There's probably a benefit to some spacing difference vs "all run together text.with nospaces." But if everyone had been reading text with 1.5 or 2.7 spaces after a period since age 3 then the test would probably have found that was the ideal spacing.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Adding extra space after the period makes sense typographically. That's why it make sense to put two spaces after a period when typing on a typewriter.
Computers can add the space automatically though. If you look at the spaces after a period in any decent font, it's wider than the spaces after other letters.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Double-spacing is a hangover from manual typing, and most of us who learned in that era learned by typing with something resembling Courier. Most typewriters couldn't handle proportional fonts or adding extra space after a period, so double-spacing was the way around that. When I see something double-spacing, I recognize that person as someone who is generally old enough to have learned on a typewriter (or the first generations of word processing), and who doesn't engage heavily with IT. Those people are also likely to be less distracted in reading and thus capable of reading faster. The "3 percent increase" for them reading with double spaces is hardly significant.
Due to retina detachment I am almost blinded on one eye and the vision of other eye is slowly degrading
To compensate the gradual loss of vision I make the font of my computer screen much larger, and I change the font setting and use fonts that are much easier to my eyes
Now I can appreciate why good fonts are much better than lousy ones
Before I had that retina problem my vision was 20/20. I actually had a pilot license
At that time fonts for me were, well, fonts. Some were boring, some were pretty, some were crazy
Now, my view on the fonts (pun intended) has totally changed. Some of the fonts I used to think as 'funny' or 'pretty' are actually very tiring for my degrading eyes. Those which were deemed 'boring', on the other hand, surprised my eyes for they do not need to be 'stared' for too long
So it's not how many spaces after a period. It's the size of the font and the structure of the font that counts !!
They're fun to "find/replace" when some old type-writer-using geezer has put them in one of our document templates. Another favourite of mine is the guy who puts spaces after an opening bracket ( like so).
If you have a search function that doesn't ignore whitespace, you're probably onto a loser before you even start.
Plus, why would you search for an entire sentence + follow on sentence in one search? That's just going to end in disaster whether it's a double-space, a new-line, a new paragraph or anything else.
"Ignore whitespace" is an option in your searches for a reason.
Some people like it. Anyone habitually using a typewriter (and there are still quite a few who do) typically end up with Courier too. Though I don't use Courier New specifically, basically all my text is written in 80x40 xterms (typically using HUGE font) or on the 80x25 VGA console, and both use fixed-width fonts too.
There's another point of contention and that's that some people are "screen blind", as in they miss all sorts of details when reading off a screen they wouldn't miss when reading off paper. So, better print out those sample texts. While at it, in various fonts and so on. And do some serious research, not this "we tried one thing then filled 40 pages of paper with it so we could publish!" Different fonts, different sizes, different kinds of paper and lighting and whatnot. Go on, give this a serious spin already. And compare softwware while at it. "word" is an atrocious typesetter, but widely used. Compare troff (I still use it, yes), (La)TeX, abiword, and find a couple more. Go on, get with the researching, researchers.
2 spaces and the Oxford comma! You one space kids with your missing commas can get off my lawn!
So, if we switch all reading material (including websites) to mono spaced fonts, we'll have a 3% increase in reading speed for paragraphs. Wow, just WOW!
IMHO, it is better to use a tab.
There are different kind of searches. For example, we have got a database with six million product titles. Suddenly we may get two identical to human eye titles, but which differ just by a single, almost unnoticeable, space. Or two spaces, or three.
This should be a precise search, I have to find exactly the title, which I need. No error is allowed.
Certainly, I can solve this programmatically. But why to add more entropy, more disorder, more lack of predictability into the human language, which is a mess even without it.
Because you have humans using the system.
Which is why you "ignore whitespace" and code it as an option wherever it's needed. If anything, it actually makes searching FASTER, because an exact-whitespace match takes longer to find.
When you then put in Unicode, other languages, non-breaking spaces, paragraph marks, and you're working on human-entered data, you're really onto a loser from the start if you have coded anything on a byte-for-byte matching process.
Also, your system works against you in more ways than one. Someone creates an entry with one space. Someone else doesn't see it so they create it with two. Now you have two entirely different entries with different data referring to different database rows, but both "look" identical.
Ignore whitespace, and the problem solves itself.
If you aren't normalizing your text data and your searches then your database is worthless anyway.
I'm not sure why this is being discussed. It makes absolutely no difference how many spaces you put after a period. See, that was one space. That was 2 spaces and it looks exactly the same. This time I used 3 spaces. That was 8 spaces, and here comes 13. Could you tell the difference? I didn't think so.
Python programmers know this.
"But we had one certain thing about a human language, - that the words are separated with a space, with one space."
I hate to break it to you.... people (like myself) were taught to use two spaces after a full-stop for DECADES. The predecessors of ubiquitous computing were all taught like that as the only reference was typewriters and which were often taught to double-space.
This is not a "now we'll have a problem". This is a "You've already had this problem for a very long time and it's never been standardised, so don't make bad assumptions".
You are much more likely to find existing users using double-space-after-period than you are younger users.
Fact is, there is no such standard. What standards they were stayed the same from typewriters to PCs, but then changed to this "one-space" system, and now people are arguing over "one-space vs two-space" again. So you have to code to account for all situations anyway.
Sort is more problematic, sure, but again ignoring whitespace in sort is incredibly easily (and actually beneficial... did you enter the book title as "whitehouse" or "white house"? Surely you want those listed close to each other).
This was never a given. I was EXPLICITLY taught, less than 30 years ago, to double-space after periods. It's a habit you'll find throughout this post (which I'm writing at 100+ WPM). Maybe the new generations weren't but you can't just assume that.
Don't even get me started on spaces (and punctuation) when they are near / inside the end of quotes, semi-colons, etc.
Stop making bad coding assumptions where they relate to human-entered or human-visible data (which INCLUDES search criteria, and the original entered data).
Researchers at Skidmore College conducted an eye-tracking experiment with 60 Skidmore students and found that two spaces at the end of a period slightly improved the processing of text during reading.
I think we have a candidate for the IgNobel Prize in Who Gives a Shit for 2018.
Oh, look at that.... Slashdot replaces double-space after period with single space. This is definitely two spaces to the left. And now three spaces to the left of that.
When even Slash has it in code they haven't updated properly in decades and can't have UK pound signs (you get this junk:
£), you know you're onto a loser!
"... in any decent font, [the space after a period] is wider than the spaces after ... letters."
Exactly. The "researchers" at Skidmore ignored the fact that fonts have already solved the problem. In the future, I suggest that they skid less.
Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no. So no, two spaces is not better than one.
No one has a lifetime of reading monospace text anymore, which is the only thing this study covered.
Also, in most cases text input have their spaces normalized.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Oh, look at that.... Slashdot replaces double-space after period with single space. ...
It is not Slashdot. It is a browser and the HTML. Two or three spaces are always one in the browser https://stackoverflow.com/ques...
So a client of an Internet shop sees always one space, and it is confusing for her/him why the product does not sort properly.
In fact, I had a lot of problems with these multiple spaces coming with product titles from suppliers. And I do not work only with English language.
If the intent is to make text more readable, then start using more commata in written language. That will properly segment logical units far better than double spaces after a full stop. While we are at it, ban the use of APA style inline references in favor of footnotes or end notes. By now all have access to computerized word processors and we no longer need to accommodate the shortcomings of typewriters.
It is clear that a product have got also a unique article number. But the data is used by many actors, including browser and mobile apps in different human languages.
and a blank line to separate paragraphs is a good idea too
and nitpicking over starting the first world in each new sentence with a capital letter is stupid. but double space after the period and comma is good
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
I have always used only 1 space. The two spaces after a period rule came from a pre-computer, typewriter era. Today's font kerning makes the two spaces after a period rule obsolete.
The thing with using paragraphs, sentences, etc, is that it allows one to bite off bits of information. We already use em-dashes to mark off particular clauses we wish to emphersise -- to this point -- but now argue about spaces. White-space helps the reader catch the large-scale of the text. Setting a sentence off in double-space is one devise that does this. Even in the font i type here, it is easier to pick sentences off.
Paragraphs are likewise set off by a blank line, or first-line indent. Where first-line indent is not permitted, then one should use blank line separation. Quotes and examples should be set in an indented paragraph, where the quote is the paragraph.
Bold text is appropriate if one wants the text to stand out on the page at first glance. Highlighted text that is meant to be emphersised in context should be in italic.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
One space. The typewriter is dead, please donâ(TM)t bring two spaces back.
So what did they really demonstrate? That people who don't know how to write don't read very well either.
The worst aspect of the results is that in a sample of 60 college students more than half didn't know how to write! How the F do 39 out of 60 college students not know how many spaces to use?? What the F are they doing in college???
A lot of content is developed by young people with good eyesight who are not conscious of the issues older or visually-challenged people have. This issue goes well beyond how many spaces are after a period. It also includes fonts, line spacing, paragraph spacing and colors.
Sometimes it's understandable that an app wouldn't have an option to enlarge or change the font, because including those options might be too difficult, but what would it harm to add a second space to assist some readers?
Regarding the aesthetic argument for having only one space, I'll just point out that justified text (also aesthetic) has a seemingly chaotic number of spaces between words in the middle of sentences. Some people think that is ugly.
I prefer two spaces in searching text. It's easier to write a regex that will match a sentence break without also matching common abbreviations like Mr./Mrs./Ms./St./ P.S./i.e./ex./ etc.
"WANTED: Sinking ship seeks rats."
Kind of a bitch when posting, say python scripts.
Most only need one space after their period before we're back in business. Some though have a little extra surge at the end, so two spaces is a safer bet. Unfortunately you don't know until you "know", if you know what I mean.
I am not following you. Are you talking about a Hex Editor layout, so a Hex values would be "6c69 6b65 2074 6869 733f"
But nearly any search algorithm doesn't care about the space unless you say search for word with a space. And why the heck would you want to sort a document? if you were you just ignore spaces. I run into more coding exceptions when I get other characters such as " ' { } > < & because normally they will conflict with secondary systems such as SQL, JSON, HTML or XML. Yes the fixes are quite easy to work around, but if you are making a get it done junk program (which is intended for a few weeks, and ends up being a mission critical application) Having to make a program in under 15 minutes for a specialized purpose sometimes doesn't get the all the testing it needed. That said, I never in my 30 years programming experience had issues with coding double spaces vs single space. Just as long as the code supported spaces.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
not really:
you can indent if you like
That's what the <pre> tag is for.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Ever taken a ruler and held it over the bottom half of a line of text and been surprised that you can still easily read it? If we cut letters in two we can increase the amount of information on a page and probably be able to what I would call "chunk read," or absorb information and meaning more quickly. It would make, I think, the "parafoveal" capture of extra characters easier. Also, we need to progress to an "emotional alphabet," something like: "a" with a following up arrow indicating rising anger, "j" with a down arrow indicating decreasing jealousy, "h" with an equal sign indicating a sustaining level of hate, etc. It could be much more complicated and subtle. I called it "emotional algebra" to order my thinking. Don't tell me about emoticons. They are for children.
Janet looked at Amelia and smiled brightly while putting out her hand at the business conference. (without emotional algebra, just a couple of actions)
Janet looked at Amelia and smiled brightly while putting out her hand at the business conference. (j,h{up arrow}) [And now we know her internal state while she performed those actions]
E Proelio Veritas.
/*Standard SQL*\ /*Depending of SQL Server commands there may be some difference*\
select * from table where title like '%first_word %second_word%'
or
select * from table where replace(title,' ','') = "first_wordsecond_word"
However the general rule of thumb is no matter what the writing conventions are. If humans are putting it in the system, there will be mistakes.
So "Hello World" vs "HelloWorld" (Slashdot cleared out my two non-breaking space) is a possible chance.
For the most part on big databases for searching I often will need to use a Levenshtein or Jaro algorithm, with normalizing white spaces. Just because human error is so common.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
hah! but yes two spaces after a period is my default and i believe easier to read. I try to leave two spaces when I write by hand but it never works out. :)
-Xen
If you have a "slight" effect, there is a large probability that something else caused it or that it is just statistical variation. Also, a "slight" effect is usually not worth the effort for the change and may well come with a "slight" negative effect as well. I know that whenever I read a text with these two spaces, I get offended at the ugliness. That would offset any benefit in reading comprehension.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
To be honest though; once passing those classes, I stopped adhering to that for anything except the most formal of composition. (job cover letters, school assignments etc)
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
I do searches expecting whitespaces and hate those searches that ignore it.
If I am searching for the word pat, I add a whitespace before or after it so I don't get every result that has pat in the word (pattern, patient, patsy, etc)
If double spaces is a problem for your system, weed them out in the data entry phase.
Even if you manage to change common language rules for your benefit, people will still make the occational honest mistake! They might even enter a rare triple space, even if the language don't specify that sort of thing.
When I learned to write, we were supposed to have more space after a sentence-ending period than in other cases (interword spaces, space after comma, space after those periods that don't end the sentence.) The point is, a sentence is an important unit and their separation should stand out.
These rules were for handwriting, so no such thing as "two spaces". That was a typewriter rule, and schoolkids didn't use typewriters. Modern word processyng/typesetting does not necessarily use "two spaces", but the space after a sentence end is longer than other interword spacing. Well, not necessarily for all languages, but for many. It still makes reading easier.
The amount of "space characters" is not so interesting, proper typesetting (and modern word processing) uses variable-with spacing to line up the margins anyway. Still, the sentence-ending space is supposed to be visibly longer than other spacing because it aids the reader.
Human written language uses spacing - not space characters. Space characters are a peculiarity of digital text.
people (like myself) were taught to use two spaces after a full-stop for DECADES. The predecessors of ubiquitous computing were all taught like that as the only reference was typewriters and which were often taught to double-space.
I was taught this way. This was when fixed-width fonts dominated typing. Now that fixed-width fonts are no longer the norm, I've switched to a single space after the period. My inner pedant screamed at first, but he got over it.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Betteridge's law of headlines holds the answer yet again.
...
wow....posted by a true grammar prof who has little computer acumen
Take this kind of consistency further. Use the same divider for everything - letters, words, sentences, paragraphs, chapters... No bueno. Why not use the same dividers for the same type of elements and bigger dividers for bigger elements: no space between letters, one space between words, two spaces between sentences, new line between paragraphs, new page between chapters... Is that so hard to understand - clear visual guides to tell us the level of importance of each element. I believe the problem exists only due to habit and emotional response to change. Like for the metric system. Or temperature degrees. Or which side of the road to drive on... If you give it some thought and read a few opposing points of view, you will reach the logical conclusion that one system is better than the rest. For the record: the metric system, Celsius, left-side driving.
I was taught to type 1 space after a comma and 2 spaces after a period. For many years, I assumed typing was still taught that way. About 2 years ago I realized that younger people are typically taught to only use 1 space after a period. I had assumed 2 spaces was a golden rule, forever. I guess I was wrong.
Ultimately, with variable width fonts and HTML, etc., it really doesn't matter anymore. However I will likely use 2 spaces until I die. A 30 year typing habit is hard to kill.
I hate to break it to you.... people (like myself) were taught to use two spaces after a full-stop for DECADES.
Centuries if you count printing presses and written letters.
WHERE'S THE ALL CAPS STUDY?
If the extra space helps, IT HELPS. It doesn't matter that they used a fixed width font for the test. Since proportional fonts mess with the size of the space, to have a meaningful test they almost had to use fixed width. A single space separates words to make them more readable and a double space separates sentences for the same reason. Even if it doesn't aid in reading speed, I guarantee you it helps if you have to go back and find a particular sentence in the middle of the text.
...every bit counts.
Save a bit. One Space only.
Aside from the use of the Euro-ism "full stop" instead of period, exactly correct. This has been a rule of English for centuries, it's perfectly normal. and the study is entirely unsurprising.
Unfortunately, proportional fonts compress these to almost undetectable, unlike fixed fonts like Courier, and unlike typewriters that effectively require fixed-width characters.
This sometimes leads people to write code with TABS in it, which is something that should be stamped out every time it is found, as pure evil.
it simply does not matter for most cases. There is the historical reason why double spacing made sense but it rarely matters. It has been pointed out that HTML does not mind whether double spacing is used. Also decent text processing systems like Latex do not show any difference. So, it simply does not matter. If one feels good doing two spaces. Where fanatism in syntax can matter is in programming but also there, the languages don't distinguish between one and two spaces. What matters however is zero or one spacing. I common mistake done in programming languages which allow spaces to be used as multiplication is to mistake xy with x y. This is often hard to catch. I personally always had big reservations with the tab which can often lead to mistakes in data as it is not visible and only the processing of the data with programs can lead to problems. But also here, some tolerance can help as it is easy to "clean out tabs" with one strike. There are obviously some who like tabs. Let them live. Also, if somebody likes the nostalgia with double spacing after punctuation, let them be even if it does not make much sense any more with modern type setting systems.
Nah. The emacs vs. vi argument will be the start of WWIII -- or maybe the indentation style debate.
or a decimal point
or a dot
The period is the inverse of (as in one divided by) the frequency
As a male I don't have to worry about the biological definition of period
(I was born in an English speaking country)
and while we're at it
# is a hash (the pound sign is a curly L)
@ is an at
And element number 13 is Aluminium
Ah, the modern world. You must do it this way because we have one broken-ass piece of software that can't handle it any other way.
Also, you're holding your phone wrong.
I believe there is another cause for this.
The "one-spacers" ... showed statistically insignificant variation across all four spacing practices.
So individuals that are likely oblivious to the practice of using double spaces after a period saw no discernible difference in reading speed regardless of the amount of space after a period. To me, these individuals represent the physical reality of whether the spacing makes any difference in how easily the words can be seen and read. The result is that it makes no difference on the physical ability to identify and read words and sentences.
"two-spacers" saw a three-percent increase in reading speed for paragraphs in their own favored spacing scheme.
Let's phrase that differently.
"two-spacers" saw a three-percent decrease in reading speed for paragraphs not in the own favored spacing scheme.
Why? Probably because "two-spacers" have an opinion on the matter, which is why they go out of their way to space in a specific manner. Consequently, when they see a spacing scheme that they believe is incorrect, they are cognizant of that fact, and it gives them brief pause while they consciously recognize the scheme is not the scheme they prefer, and thus their reading rate drops slightly because they are thinking of something else for a moment as the encounter it.
Better known as 318230.
I'm British.
You're just as wrong to make that assumption as the OP.
There are different kind of searches. For example, we have got a database with six million product titles. Suddenly we may get two identical to human eye titles, but which differ just by a single, almost unnoticeable, space. Or two spaces, or three.
That's just bad design and why numbers exist. Well, not why but it's a use for them that's for sure.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
This sometimes leads people to write code with TABS in it, which is something that should be stamped out every time it is found
I'm looking at 340k lines of C++ with at least one tab on most lines. What's the problem?
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Certain? Hardly.
You ignore the fact that languages such as English and German evolve, in part, through the gradual creation of compound words. "Air port" was in the running up until ~1925, then *poof*, the space went away in the vast majority of use cases.
Your example using LIKE kinda, sorta works, sometimes. It rather slow as well.
Full text search works better and faster.
https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refm...
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-...
Daily reminder: Hillary is going to die in prison. And only one "space" is available.
Are you that desperate for distraction you're still doing that same old line? How's the wall coming?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
That should be "hell to refactor". Dyac. See, even THINKING about Python causes mistakes.
Wrong. Just dead wrong.
Which part? One being enough, the pretentious or the consistency?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Typing two spaces at the end of a sentence indicates a between-sentences gap, as opposed to a between-words gap. That may or may not be the same amount of space. If you're using a proportional font, then you're relying on the computer to handle the spacing, and this should be no different. Perhaps two spaces should kern together to be the equivalent of 1.2 spaces, and that sort of rule can be handled by the font.
The problem is that determining the difference between the end of a sentence and a period that just ends an abbreviation is quite difficult. That's something that requires natural language analysis, not something simple like kerning that is part of the design of proportional fonts.
So everyone should continue to learn to type with two spaces after a period. We know it's superior for fixed-space fonts. Computers should be taught to do the right thing for proportional fonts. If they don't, file a bug report.
Unicode doesn't even support the concept of a less than full stop.
There's no reasonable way to differentiate the period after an abbreviation like "Mr.", from one at the end of a sentence.
CSS doesn't let you control the number of spaces that follow a period - the authors of CSS apparently didn't believe this was a "style" choice.
What if the "best" choice was 1.5 spaces between sentences?
This sounds like you're favouring the two space system (even though if that's what you're doing one is being robbed form you) by suggesting a slippery slope for punctuation? Am I getting that right? Anyway, I agree with you on metric and celsius but I'd say one or two space, like left or right side really don't matter as long as everyone does it the same.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Two spaces after the period in a mono spaced font, one space in a proportional spaced font. The reason for this is simple, in a proportional space font the spacing of the letters may be smaller than the space, which remains fixed.
I learned this from someone who was a professional secretary who could see the difference at 10 feet.
Fight Spammers!
Fonts have not solved this problem, and the problem has actually gotten worse now that one-space-at-the-end-of-sentences has become the status quo.
We were told twenty (thirty?) years ago that computer typography would solve this problem, but that has not happened, even though the teaching and convention has changed. Fonts just add extra space after all periods, including inline abbreviations like Mr. Sure, higher-end desktop publishing knows the difference in-line periods and end-of-sentence-periods, but that has become less of what we read, and word processing and web browsers never did pick up on the difference. So it was up to us grognards to manual add the extra space.
Shame on this study for using a fixed width font for testing. The improved readability of large blocks of text with a little bit of extra spacing between sentences is quite obvious. You fools advocating for single-space-after-end-of-sentence-periods should experiment for yourselves (with a print page using proportionally spaced text). We have been sold a bill of goods.
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
"But we had one certain thing about a human language, - that the words are separated with a space, with one space."
I hate to break it to you.... people (like myself) were taught to use two spaces after a full-stop for DECADES. The predecessors of ubiquitous computing were all taught like that as the only reference was typewriters and which were often taught to double-space.
I was taught to use a single space to separate words, but two spaces after a full-stop. I suppose it helps to determine if a period is part of an abbreviation or the end of a thought.
HTML condensing all whitespace, so you can't put two spaces after a full-stop with resorting to non-breaking spaces or other tricks. Since people spend so much time online, a single space is what people ae getting used to.
Wide spacing between sentences pre-dates typewriters, and was common in printed books.
See, for instance, Mark Twain's "The Innocents Abroad" (1869).
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki...
Re "it's harder to process the text with software," the way it looks (including spacing) is a question of output formatting, and should be configurable. Processing text should be done on input data, which these days should be in a markup language.
I think it's easier to read text with wider sentence spacing. On a related note, wrapped and justified margins are sometimes ugly, often because this is not done carefully. This is covered by Knuth and Plass, "Breaking Paragraphs into Lines."
Ironically, you just disproved your own point. You CAN have a UK pound sign, as long as you put up with the other baggage that comes with mixing Latin -1 with UTF-8 in the same application.
then the answer is no.
andjustdoawaywithspacesaltogether.
In variable-width fonts, the extra space is more helpful. Spaces tend to be narrower from the start, so the extra gap between thoughts is needed.
HTML has nearly always rendered one space, irrespective of how many spaces you put. For all it's bugs, you can't blame /. for this.
As for it's shitty handling of our national currency symbol, or the default quotes on an iPhone, somebody at /. needs to get off their arse and fix it. This is not a client side problem, despite some twits trying to make it so and asking people to change what they type.
"Are Two Spaces After a Period Better Than One?"
I usually make plenty of space just before her period.
Just another day in Paradise
I'd love to throw you two sorry fucks into a ring together - and I'm more than happy to dispatch the "winner," if there is one...
The added carbon footprint of using an extra space is killing the planet! More resources are needed to accommodate each and every extra space. That's why you must fight the evil double space.
andjustdoawaywithspacesaltogether.
and just do a way with spaces all to get her?
Have gnu, will travel.
Python is kind of a bitch to read, hell to de-facto, difficult to code review...
You don't indent your code? I pity whoever has to support it.
What the hell does anyone need cursive writing for anymore? It existed entirely because inkwell-dipped pens function better if the point stays on the paper. Somewhere along the way people decided it was fancy and proper, for no real reason.
Fonts did not solve this problem. Do you select a different space after a sentence or do you just press the space bar? The characters in a font do not know where they are. If you are lucky some software will fix this when the text is presented. Otherwise, it will not.
Winning!
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
One space should be used between words. Otherwise, it may cause unexpected problems with search, sorting, etc.
Yup, it's super hard to handle multiple spaces in a row. Imagine how difficult it might be in a low-level language where you have to code up every little detail?
#include <stdio.h>
#include <ctype.h>
int main() {
int c, words = 0;
while (!feof(stdin)) {
while(isspace(c = getchar())) ;
if (c == EOF) break;
words++;
while((c = getchar()) != EOF && !isspace(c)) ;
}
printf("words: %d\n", words);
return 0;
}
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
At least for my missus...those tempers, the more space between us, the better!
The discussion should really be about what preferences are for typing (what you type into your word processor) vs. typesetting (what the text looks like when printed); the two are not the same thing. When printed (or previewed, or rendered on a display for reading) the amount of space after a full stop would depend on the spacing guidelines for the font itself. When being edited, the mechanism to indicate an end of sentence (full stop) should be consistent.
Personally I use proportional fonts and I don't have detailed typesetting requirements, so I just use a single space after a full when typing and printing. If I cared or did it professionally, I would use a typesetting language in my editor where I could specifically call out if the dot I typed meant an abbreviation or a full stop. For example in TeX/LaTex the space after a dot is treated as a full stop unless you indicate otherwise. The point is if you really care about the details, you want to separate typing from typesetting because if you don't and you want to do something like change the font, you have to go back and edit your whole document.
The researchers should've reviewed the state of the art first. They lumped together a whole bunch of different concepts and drew irrelevant conclusions. And their methodology was sloppy even given their assumptions-- but that's been discussed.
There's typesetting. There's a distinction between en-space and em-space. There's leading, a similar issue for vertical spacing between lines. There's ligatures, where some characters next to each other merge for readability. There's justification, where the space between words, sentences, and even letters varies just to make lines flush on both right and left. And others. Perhaps start by asking yourself, what would \LaTeX do.
Then there's those of us who type mostly in fixed-width fonts. For me, that's mostly because I code a lot. But when I write a long bit of text I will often write it in a fixed-width font just so I can use a decent editor, then copy+paste. Yes, I consistently double-space! because it's the only way to make fixed-width fonts have a readable sentence separator when I write comments and inline documentation. (And yes, that lower case "b" in "because" after the bang and space is proper. I'll leave the research to you.)
So no, the original article doesn't even ask a valid question.
Two reasons:
1) So you can read letters handwritten by old people
2) So you can sign your name on documents
I notice you're keen on paragraph breaks, reflecting a common preference in readers. Do you suppose that preference is because your brain has been conditioned to expect breaks between paragraphs? Or is it because the way the eye and brain work together means that interruptions in text are more easily read because it allows the brain to break down what is written into smaller, linked bits of information, rather than trying to parse it all together?
I personally think the preference for a visually distinct spacing led to two spaces, not the other way around, and that the switch to single spacing came a result of people wanting to cram in more information per inch, or to improve "aesthetics" without considering how the user interacts with it. The choice certainly wasn't made because of readability, as this study clearly demonstrates.
Where to begin...
First, serif, sans-serif, and fixed width (which is also serif/sans-serif) works differently depending on whether it is hard copy or if it is on a pixelated screen. Generally, serif fonts work better on hard copy, sans-serif on screens. There are many theories as to why, but when I was learning typography, this was a thing.
Secondly, only fixed-width fonts benefit from double-spacing between sentences. Generally, after a sentence stop there is a greater visual space between the end of one word and the beginning of another.
I could also argue there's likely going to be questions as to demographics (likely primarily age of the reader), though this is speculative. To make matters worse, serif and sans-serif are not the only variables. Eyesight would likely correlate with age, but type of vision flaws could also have a major impact. Indeed, this could get phenomenally complicated quite quckly.
Finally, double spacing after a stop was only a rule for typewriters. It was never a grammatical rule.
For this study to be valid, it would need to account for the following variables, one way with single spacing, and separately with double spacing:
And I'm better at reading my own handwriting than other people's. Anybody surprised?
This study is touting a statistically insignificant (3% difference measured on roughly half of a 60-person group) "result" that says people perform better on what they're used to.
In college, that deserves an F.
1. You can read cursive without having to write it.
2. A signature doesn't have to be written in cursive. It doesn't have to be your name. It doesn't have to be anything - no one checks or compares them in 99.99% of transactions.
As a workaround, we exaggerate the spacing between monospaced (e.g. Courier) sentences by double-spacing to make it easier to spot sentence breaks. Old-school typewriters spaced characters like "i" the same as "W", leading to a lot of blank space between letters of the same word. The eye of and decent reader "fixates" and recognizes entire words, phrases or sentences, but the inter-letter space within words makes words harder to automatically pick out. This is why proportionally-set text is easier to read.
The main body copy of books & magazines are typeset in proportional fonts. Duh. These fonts have been carefully designed and tweaked over hundreds (yes, hundreds) of years by people who thought and cared deeply about readability. Also good looks, but readability was key. They did many tests and experiments to maximize ease and speed of reading. THE WIDTH OF THE BLANK IS PART OF THE DESIGN. If the designer wanted wider spaces, s/he would put them there.
However, after their period, most typists are approaching maximum fertility, and you might want to give some of them extra space.
These days, a lot of typists are male and don't have periods. You might want to avoid them too.
Most web browsers are crap, and their handling of white space sucks. Too bad you can't avoid them at any time of the month.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Uh...
str = " ".join(str.split())
seems easy enough for occasions where this is a problem...
WTF!? Is that just Skidmore College, or what?
As the summary points out very little is done in fixed with fonts anymore. The difference between double spacing and single spacing is visually imperceptible in variable with fonts for a lot of cases. It suspect that it has little impact if any on reading as a result. Its also true that documents are going to continue to exist doing it both ways for a long time even if everyone did come to some kind of agreement. I think we should all just do whatever the heck we like.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
At the risk of speaking for someone else, you are not getting that right. He is pointing out that using different types of breaks to show different levels of division within a text makes reading that text easier, which is also what then study from TFA shows. The use of new line and indentation on paragraphs that he cited is an obvious example that we're all familiar with, just at a larger scale.
No one wants to put in the effort to read a giant block of text that should have been divided into paragraphs. Not because of snobbishness, or stubbornness, or a concern for other punctuation. Because it's hard on the eyes, and it's hard on the part of the brain that interprets visual stimulus. The same thing applies on a smaller scale with the amount of space at the end of a sentence.
One of the reasons many prefer cursive is because printing is S-L-O-W.
I also was taught in typing class to single space after a comma and double space after a period, and I have continued to do that to this day.
Have to say I gave up on that whole indenting of paragraphs long ago though.
And while you heathens are at it, use the oxford comma.
Yeah, I get what your saying, it just makes the start of a new sentence more recognisable and that's fair enough. The way I see it at least though, through reasons others have pointed or user laziness or whatever the 1 space system seems to be by far the most common. Ol' /. here even seems to enforcing it so when you (I) see it being used it's either on something old probably done on a typewriter or it's some one usually trying to come off...well I dunno what but it just seems off to me. Like that guy around here who says grok instead of understand, yeah it's perfectly legit but you look like a dick, or old, one of the two, maybe both. Although as long as people are consistent to themselves that's the main thing imo. I would probably happily go 2 space if it was the overwhelming norm but probably like the 2 spacers I learned 1, I'm used to it, it works fine and I don't see any real reason not to.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Because you have humans using the system.
Which is why you "ignore whitespace" and code it as an option wherever it's needed. If anything, it actually makes searching FASTER, because an exact-whitespace match takes longer to find.
When you then put in Unicode, other languages, non-breaking spaces, paragraph marks, and you're working on human-entered data, you're really onto a loser from the start if you have coded anything on a byte-for-byte matching process.
Also, your system works against you in more ways than one. Someone creates an entry with one space. Someone else doesn't see it so they create it with two. Now you have two entirely different entries with different data referring to different database rows, but both "look" identical.
Ignore whitespace, and the problem solves itself.
Ignoring white space is absurd.
The rapist vs. therapist.
Expertsexchange vs. expert sex change.
Further, ignoring white space doesn't speed up a search, it slows it down. An exact match is always the fastest. The only way ignoring whitespace is faster is if you pre compute a copy of the dataset with all whitespace removed. Even then, I suspect the act of stripping whitespace from the search query will take longer than any benefit you get.
What you seem to be arguing for is collating / collapsing whitespace. That's a whole different thing from ignoring it.
Is this a joke? I'm all for double spacing after periods, but if you don't know that HTML collapses whitespace you're a clown or you're pretending to be one.
When I took a typing class in HS in the late 1950s I was taught to put two spaces after the period at the end of a sentence. I was also taught to put two lines between paragraphs, and to indent the beginning line of a paragraph by one tab, which was usually set to two spaces as well.
I first recalled seeing to tabs at the start of a paragraph and one blank line at the end of a paragraph in scifi books I read in the 1980s, IIRC. Publishers apparently did it to save paper. HD storage is a commodity and space is not a problem any more.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
Back when I was writing papers, I also found it handy to do a search-and-replace on the ends of sentences to break a paragraph up into a list so that I can rearrange/re-organize my thoughts. I can't do that with single spaces after periods (since then there's no other good way to distinguish sentence endings with things like Mr. or P.E.)
Also, I sometimes just wanted a sentence count, and counting "." and "." gets a pretty accurate count when working on plain text (no word processor feature).
-- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."
A memo was sent to every person employed at Westinghouse Hanford Company over the question if employee should
be spelled employee or the money saving employe. This broadcast was unusal and followed by the second and last message a year later
saying they had decided to keep it as employee.
We saw it as a high level secretary war, any savings having long since been blown away.
For notetaking my preferred spacing after a sentence is CR LF LF.
I can skim familiar material where every non-trivial sentence has its own paragraph to reorient and refresh at about twice the speed of block text.
I tend to write this way, too, with short paragraphs. But then during preview, there's no shape to the text, so I stitch a few sentences together here and there to make some block paragraphs as visual landmarks.
———
First, a short digression ... I can't stand the Unicode ellipsis character. Space dot space dot space dot space is the worst of all. Space dot dot dot space is tolerable. Then yesterday I came across the perfect solution (visually): space dot thinspace dot thinspace dot thinspace dot space. Perfect! I can die happy now. (But not on Slashdot, ... any...time . . . soon.)
I read the TeX manuals when they first came out, and the rules have nothing to do with integers. Thin space exists for a good reason. If two spaces help the rendering software identify the end of a sentence, that's great. Regardless of how you get there, the space at the end of the sentence should be visually larger than the interword space, though almost certainly not double.
———
The other factor with Courier 14 is that the line lengths were almost certainly short and reasonable for efficient reading. So many websites make the line lengths too long. The usual quick unit is 2.5 times the width of the lower case alphabet (at most). Many design-centric websites push this up to 3.5 lower case alphabets, which makes tracking from the end of one line to the beginning of the next far more difficult than it needs to be.
Then, just to show off, they figure out some way to write the CSS so that when I use my browser's text zoom feature to enlarge the font relative to the line width, the margins automatically rescale relative to the font size to the same ridiculous text length. It's as if the site designer regards text as a form of ruler putty whose only function is to establish geometric layout ratios. (Rumours that designers are slow on the uptake are greatly exaggerated; that said, all their best times at track and field events are posted in the total absence of nearby reflective surfaces—and a rain delay is any rain that leaves behind a shiny puddle.)
———
TeX has letters and glue (stretchy white space, of various cardinalities).
TeX revised by a design professional would just have glue: large white glue, and small black glue. In Jordan Peterson's schema, the white glue would be the yang of order, and the black glue would be the yin of chaos (damn those proportional fonts, irregular word lengths, and fussy hyphenation points!).
As line length goes to infinity, interline glue variance goes to zero. This is the only theorem most web designers know. The problem is even worse if you can't trust an automatic hyphenator to handle all the ridiculous content Joe Random Blogger might compose. Why, in extremis, you might even be forced to adopt the dishevelled, libertine ethos of ragged right.
Better to simply set all text to a line length 3.5 times the width of the lower case alphabet and be done with it (surely if we do this enough it will ultimately impel VESA and the Koreans to set the 16k video standard to an aspect ratio of 9:4, as never-married, closet-God conspicuously prefers).
———
In my notes, I also break apart long sentences with list structure into bullet format, and I almost always break sentences joined by semicolons into separate sentences, too.
"Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)" becomes "MIT", etc.
"Boston, Massachusetts, USA" becomes "Boston".
The "Cindy Elizabeth Erin Olivia Mary-Ellen and James Benjamin Jason Zebulon John-Boy Walton Distinguished University Professor of Psychology and Behaviour FRS FRAS OBE with a joint appointment to the Peter, Paul, and Mary School of Ma
Learning to read cursive without writing it would be like just learning to understand German without being able to speak it.
Not at all. Learning to read cursive involves knowing what English letters look like in what's effectively a different font. The syntax, words, letter groupings, meaning, and grammar are all identical to printed/typed text. This is nothing like learning a new language.
Is this a joke? I'm all for double spacing after periods, but if you don't know that HTML collapses whitespace you're a clown or you're pretending to be one.
Is that a joke? If I type some stuff into a text box and ask it to get posted, I expect it to be posted exactly as-is. The failure here is of some codemonkey to write a rendering tool so that multiple space chars are passed to HTML with whatever control characters are needed to make the output look like the input. I should not need to know anything about HTML to be able to post this response exactly as written.
You might as well say that anyone who doesn't know that curly quotes get bollixed.... oh, wait....
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Referencing paragraph two, peripheral is spelled incorrectly. When typing using a computer keyboard, was Spell-Checker not available? Better accuracy, then neing bothered by one space or two.
C. Northcote Parkinson noted that the less consequence and value an issue has, the more people will voice their opinion, at length.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Plus, why would you search for an entire sentence + follow on sentence in one search?
Reasons. That you reject it without reasons, and without considering reasons from real use cases, you're simply guaranteed to be incorrect.
It is good that you know the limitations of your favorite search technology, but disappointing that you're so narrow-minded about search generally and the range of uses for it.
Except for EVERY screenplay EVER written.
It seems to that the space BEFORE a period adds enough space. In that case, the font has control over the extra space.
The font I'm seeing in your comment does that.
ERROR: I posted the parent comment at 4:18 am. I made a mistake. Too early to be commenting on Slashdot, I guess.
Fonts solve the problem by putting more space BEFORE the period.
Problem: I don't like the space after the capital T and before the period in this case, with the font I am using to view Slashdot comments: T.
I don't care much about the 1 space vs 2 spaces debate. But I do care about the many morons on many message boards (inclusing here). Who refuse to use spaces after dots of commas, and who refuse to use upper cases at the start of sentences. They drivel is night on unreadable and should but drop kicked into the 7th circle of hell. That's the kind of thing that makes my blood boil trying to read. And it saves them a whole 2 seconds typing the message.
Non-Linux Penguins ?
we had one certain thing about a human language, - that the words are separated with a space, with one space.
Not all human languages separate words with spaces. For example, Thai.
Those are some pretty wild opinions stated as fact.
I don't care about your point, you're simply wrong.
But I am curious, where do you think the Authority comes from in your declaration? Surely your own personal proclamation wouldn't establish expectations on others.
The factual statement would be, "if an input tool is WYSIWYG or not depends on the tool, and its intended use cases."
I remember the WYSIWYG extremists from the 90s; and I remember also that their tools sucked because they're allergic to meta-data.
If it is something you would "get over" or not, that isn't pedanticism it is just the irrational stubborn derpiness of a mind that closed right after experiencing hubris for the first time.
Not of the body! Not of the body!
Evil tab users must be purged! M-x Untabify!
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Two spaces after a period was standard for printed text when fixed-width text was common. E.g., typewriters and older presses.
One space after a period became common once electronics entered the picture. Between proportionate width and kerning, you could make text eminently readable without resorting to "hacks" like an extra space to emphasize the end of a sentence. If anything, kerning is more relevant here---but it's essentially standard with proportionate fonts anyway.
This study should have compared twice-spaced Courier with once-spaced Times New Roman, if the comparison was to be made on a historical basis.
Or better yet, test Times New Roman twice-spaced vs once-spaced, so the comparison is made with modern fonts (the vast majority of which are proportionate).
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
This is true. I drew a penis bird on everything I signed for a week. Nobody said a word.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I learned to type in H.S. at the tail end of the manual type writer era ('77). Got up to 45wpm on a manual. W00t! Best early "tech" investment in myself I ever (accidentally) made. I definitely did feel like a bit of a nerd in that class (pre geek chic). "Easy 'A' they said" Hah! Very tough teacher. And two spaces was NOT an option.
I subsequently went on to code for 35 years after that and that class totally paid off. So, 2 spaces is hard wired into the mush that is my brain. Along with proper use of the comma semi-colon... I think, haha.
Basically at this point I have to type 2 spaces then backspace once. My kids and wife laugh at my punctuated IM's -- but old habits definitely do die hard.
So 2 spaces you whippersnappers! Even if every editor simply removes them...
Look, kiddo, it is one thing to be on the wrong side of a traditional problem.
But pretending not to know that it exists, that just guarantees you're wrong about it!
Snowflakes need Safe Spaces regardless of whether it is one or two.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
You seem to be seeking a level of clarity and uniqueness of character sequences that is simply not available in the English language. No, they're not going to change it for you. No, it doesn't matter how long you blather on about how you can't comprehend that there is ambiguity in the language. Ambiguities are not incorrect, you're simply expected to be able to figure them out in order to make use of the words.
And regarding software, if ignoring whitespace speeds up or slows down a search depends on the specific search, including all the technologies used. The answer goes both ways, depending on the actual details. If you're claiming it goes one way or the other outside of a specific use case and implementation, then you're just full of shit.
If you aren't normalizing your text data and your searches then your database is worthless anyway.
Or highly valuable. Depending on the values of variables you omitted. ;)
Who cares if it is more efficient to read? It's annoying to type and there is no logic behind difference in space after commas or full stops. If we cared about ease of reading there would be more pictures in books!
It's probably a combination of several factors.
When I was younger, written paragraphs and sentences were longer and more complex. You might see a 9 to 13 sentence paragraph and the average sentence length was long enough that they were really complex concepts. The influence of internet page and font size probably affect what we perceive as a "good" paragraph length.
I usually start a new paragraph when I start a new concept these days. So the paragraph break says "Okay, that point is done. Here comes another point."
It also reflects the preferences of my 1st girlfriend and my college english and government professors who would give negative feedback for excessively long paragraphs as well as the many times I've seen people complain about lack of paragraphs in 'wall of text posts'.
So I couldn't put it on any one factor.
With regard to line spacing, my slashdot displays at about 1.5 line spacing. It's not double spacing or single spacing as you would see from a typewriter.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I'm aware that some people have a strong preference, but have never heard a satisfactory rationalization. I'm OK with being wrong; correct me. I'm a programmer by profession, but not by education or experience until recently. I'm actively learning. The only other person that looks at the code uses the same IDE and I'm the only developer. I inherited the 340k lines of tabbed C++ where I spend my days and see no reason to switch.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
In the industry that produces the most actual documents with English writing on them (sorry publishers, ya basic) we use two spaces after a period. I also read MSWord docs with all formatting marks visible, so it's immediately apparent when it's wrong (i.e. one space). I guarantee any attorney that uses one space or inconsistently uses two spaces makes all sorts of other grammatical/formatting errors.
My reason has always been this:
Tab stops are variable. With spaces, I can guarantee that the next person to read my code will see it visually represented exactly as I intended when I wrote it. With tabs, that guarantee is absent.
This is assuming fixed-width fonts, of course.
-- sigs cause cancer.
... have known this already for a long time; use \frenchspacing to turn this off explicitly.
With my boss reviewing my work in the same environment I'm in, and nobody else developing, the only other person that would be looking at my code is my replacement after they decide I'm not worth my paycheck. And fuck that guy; he's an asshole.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Single spacing came about to reduce space in printed matter so more could be done on less. It's archaic.
FFS. Just make it look attractive. If you prefer 1, use 1. If 2, use 2. Jeeezuz, this is much ado about nothing.
Hah! Not nearly as much as someone condemning someone else for the number of spaces they use.
Since when? Double spacing was recommended for decades when typing documents. Going to a single space is what is new.
Would someone tell me how this happened? We were the fucking vanguard of punctuation in this country. The space after the period was the way to go. Then the other guy came out with two spaces after the period. Now we're standing around with our cocks in our hands, with only one space after the period. Suddenly we're the chumps. Well, fuck it. We're going to five spaces.
Sure, we could go to three spaces next. That seems like the logical thing to do. After all, two worked out pretty well, and three is the next number after two. So let's play it safe. Why innovate when we can follow? Oh, I know why: Because we're the vanguard of punctuation, that's why!
Yeah. Try that with either a pdf or printed text. The world extends beyond your flat screen.
Most computer programs doing this are not nearly the same as real typesetting. I used to review academic papers and you could easily spot those created with simplistic word processors versus professional programs versus intermediate tools. Word was usually one of the worst (maybe it's gotten better these days, but I haven't seen evidence of it). Sometimes those papers using fixed width fonts were actually more readable than those from bad word processors.
In typesetting there isn't a single versus double space issue. You have en-space or em-space, and between words you may have subtly variable spacing.
A space between paragraphs is ok. But another acceptable way is to indent the first line a new paragraph. I see books doing it both ways. Some people screwup and indent plus add a blank line, which looks odd.
The reason for the old double spacing between lines was so that there was room for markup from the teacher or editor, or to make notes yourself on the first draft.
That 'saving paper'? Many tomes were set left justified only. Adding an additional space after the period isn't going to alter the length.
Despite our typewriter roots, I think two spaces is even more relevant today. We uses periods for all kinds of things - most notably domain names. Having the extra space does indeed make it more readable, and if nothing else, more definite on what constitutes an end of a sentence versus some other function that periods (dots) define in modern lingo.
Wrong. I was taught, in England, to use one space after a comma and two after a full stop.
Bizarrely, there are retards who put a space before. How shit is that ?
At the bottom of the
Because data issues happen, and your system should either do entry validation when entered into the database to prevent that problem, or gracefully deal with data entry issues like a double-stroked space bar.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Was that Apple pounds? Looks like you should be able to get ASCII pounds... £
Now I understand what Space Force is all about, Mr Trump
Another example: German http://theweek.com/articles/46...
What is best in life? Hot water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper.
Condemn? That's a bit strong. Insult, maybe.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Chrome browser.
UK keyboard.
UK language.
UK computer.
Literally NO OTHER languages etc. installed, nothing playing with keyboards or regions or localisation, no plugins or extensions.
Slashdot, for some reason ALWAYS messes up pound-signs. No other site (even ones based on Slash like SoylentNews) does that to me.
Been the same for 10+ years, on as many computers as I've ever used to access this site.
£
£
£
£
£
I'm literally just typing Shift-3 and that's the crap I get.
Counting on 2 spaces is pretty much guaranteed to be problematic. White space is for readability, not searches. While it would be easier if the world just followed 1 set of white space rules in storing text, in the end, it's pretty much a lost cause based on experience.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Well, yes, they were helpful back before HTML began removing them in the early 80's. Since the choice has been taken from me, I rarely bother.
Logic and facts don't matter much in such cultural conventions. There are only two ways for change: :)
1. Governmental mandate - start teaching the new system in schools.
2. Persuasion trough fashion, pop culture, movies, celebrity gossip, etc.
That’s how these conventions spread. F*cking “Daylight Saving Time”!
As for the left-side traffic, there have been a number of studies showing that it reduces accidents. Most people have dominant right eye and hand and this helps when overtaking and when holding the wheel with the right hand (while changing gear or whatever with the left hand). 78 countries still use it despite the obvious advantage of joining the rest of the world in right-side driving. Japan, India, Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia, UK, Ireland, about 1.5 billion people in total.
Where do I apply to research periods after a sentence? Sounds very nice. I could also research how many toilet papers people use to wipe their arses, how many shits we have per day on average, why some dogs eat shit and we supposedly don't, how many pizzas are being sold each day... so many astonishingly interesting subjects that really matter and could change the course of history. I want to be able to do that research.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
Just another corporate tool to infest their peasant constituents with ADD/ADHD to maintain control of the masses.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
For a few months I have been following youtube discussions about new computer hardware. Typically, it is information about "overclocking, frames per second" and other quite insignificant timing information.
What I find annoying is the editing that is performed to create a 15minute or 10 minute segment. Its cut and paste of discussions, etc. The worst is the absence of pauses between sentences. Those poses are important for the brain to replay what it heard/saw, before moving on to the next mini-topic.
In grade 3, some 70 years ago, we were taught "two spaces" after a sentence. That is for the same reason I just posted the preceding paragraph. Our brain absorbs information in chunks. Too many chunks too fast and the information is not even read or listened to.
Its my personal experience that two spaces works better for comprehension.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada