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Apple's 2018 iPhones Are Rumored To Not Include Headphone Dongle In the Box (theverge.com)
Apple will reportedly ditch the 3.5mm to Lightning port headphone dongle with this year's iPhone models. Apple notoriously dropped the headphone jack from the iPhone 7 in 2016. It has included a headphone adapter with every iPhone since to help curb public unease. The Verge reports: The research note claims that Cirrus Logic, a supplier for the dongle has "confirmed" that it won't be included in the box alongside the new iPhones. Apple has been trying to transition away from wired headphones entirely with its AirPods and lineup of wireless Beats headphones, so the move isn't entirely surprising. The dongle was always meant as a stopgap while customers adjusted to the new, headphone jack-less reality that Apple imposed on the world. Apple will almost certainly continue to sell the dongle -- which costs $9 -- separately for users who still want it. But if the report is true (which, again, remains to be seen), it's hard to imagine that customers will take the news well. The Barclays research note was first spotted by Mac Rumors.
Never
.. about a company pushing 7 billion or so new headphones with the right jack? That's a whole lot of jobs.
--
'Forty Two' - D. Adams
Not to worry! You will be able to purchase it through the Apple Store for somewhat under $500!
But I refuse to switch to Android and have Google vacuum every ounce of my personal data.
I consider Apple the lesser of 2 evils.
Are wireless headphones even safe? AFAIK, studies haven't found a link between cellphone use and brain tumors, but wireless headphones are much closer to the brain and for much longer, and probably haven't had as much study as cellphones have.
Plus, Bluetooth audio codecs aren't even lossless.
Wireless is the way to go, let's not get stuck in the past like old folk but move forward.
1) What is your beef with "old folk" ? I am 62 years old and I GUARANTEE I could kick your ass in hand to hand combat. And frankly I would enjoy
doing so, because you sound like a stupid arrogant prick who would benefit from learning some respect for others.
2) "Old" people know things they have learned based on experience. Obviously you have not yet learned that life lesson yet. With respect to electronic devices, new does NOT equate to "better". The foremost goal of a company like Apple is to SELL STUFF. And of course idiots like you gobble that shit up like it was steak. But make no mistake, it IS shit.
It's natural: selling such a dongle separately increases your profits.
Thatâ(TM)s my concern too. The product is phantastic but i need to see a proper study that demonstrates safety to feel comfortable wearing them.
"You had 2 years to adapt and purchase new bluetooth equipment - you have to catch up!".
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
I've had my iPhone X almost year now and I've not used the dongle yet.
I do own the Air Pods which are excellent for all my music and phone call needs.
I will use the dongle next month though when I fly home to the UK from NZ.
My trusty Etymotic (.com) in ear plugs need a jack.
I've been using them 20 years and they are superb. I keep the dongle in the Etymotic's pouch.
As long as there's the option of a dongle I'm happy.
I wouldn't be worried. First, they are receivers, not transmitters. Second, they have to communicate all of 3 feet. That's quite a difference from a cell phone that has to transmit to a cell tower miles away.
But there'll still be the lightning EarPods in the box. Seems like a weird thing to omit from the article. Or was is deliberately trying to be sensationalist, I wonder?
A trillion dollar company but no dongle for you.
My wife and I are android people. We trade off upgrade years.
I got the Pixel 1.
She got the Pixel 2, no headphone jack. It took her 6 months to notice, because we haven't owned non-bluetooth headphones in years, apart from some "studio" ones I use when doing music and never go near a phone anyways (and have a 1/4" jack).
... the 2017 iPhone actually included a free accessory? Holy shit, that IS amazing news.
www.gaiageek.com
Charge my phone, charge my watch, and now my headphones, too? That's FOUR things to keep track of how much charge they have! How could I ever be expected to remember to do that, let alone want to?
Also, what about forgetting they're in and going for a swim, or a shower? What about bumping into someone or tripping down the stairs and losing them forever?
What if I want headphones that have noise cancellation, or want earbud types? How much do I want to spend on specialized headphones that also have bluetooth machinery inside? With wired sets you could just plug them in and they were guaranteed to work. Now, what if the bluetooth implementations between the phone and the special headphones I got are incompatible?
They suck!
...we're dealing with a bad ass over here.
âoeTheyâ(TM)re receivers, not transmitters.â
You have never seen the AirPods, right?
They transmit whenever you take them out, our double tap on them.
Hey now, the past had all the great gadgetry that was built to last and could be easily serviced and tinkered with. Those old Western Electric model 500 phones were both a rock solid communication device and a rock solid self defense implement.
Idiot. Replacing something that isn't broken by something that is ten times more expensive, easy to lose and is another thing that has to be charged is not progress. Nothing wrong with adding the option to use wireless but to remove all ways to do otherwise is just stupid.
Give me wireless headphones with a battery that doesn't degrade faster than the electronics in the headphone and I would agree with you. I'm no environmental crusader, but it seems obvious that we should not be buying disposable electronics.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
as a 'replacement' for something included that you may have lost...
they'll cost 29 bucks once they're no longer included for 'free' to nudge you a little towards 100+ dollar wireless headsets.
and, the old existing ones that were 'free' will not work with the new models.. to nudge you a little harder towards those fucking horrible wireless pieces of shit.
Live for your Apple product, HUMAN!
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Are wireless headphones even safe?
Compared to the threat of getting a headphone cord wrapped around your neck? Yes, wireless headphones are safe.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Lol bend over and take it
I know Kung-Fu.
They will have to include headphones though, as it is becoming mandatory in an increasing number of countries due to harmful radiation.
This presentation explains this rather well:
"The truth about mobile phone and wireless radiation" -- Dr Devra Davis
Likely to get bombed by spammers/trolls. =>
The only people paying the premium for this year's device are the ones that have last year's device already and thus the dongle. Admittedly, they want to sell last year's device _with_ the dongle, but then they are Apple fanboys and have all the wireless headphones one can buy for it.
This will hit the resale feasability of old devices. But it will take years before that leads to an "I don't need a new iPhone this year" effect on fanbois, and by then the product manager has got his retirement paid for.
Maybe instead of throwing a fit over not being able to find the right kind of Bluetooth headset you STFU and buy the $10 adapter for a 1/8 inch headset plug.
If charging up these electronics is such a problem then maybe you should just do without them.
These are First World problems, people! Get a grip and maybe even marvel at all the technology that's available to you now.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Wasn't there a thing a while back about handset makers are required to unlock the fm radio on these things and without the wired headphones what are they going to use for an antenna now?
BlueTooth maximum power: 100mW for class 1 devices (e.g. laptops) and just 2.5mW for most common class 2 devices (e.g. cell phones and BT headphones).
CellPhones maximum RF transmit power: 2W (when reception is good it should be less than that).
IOW, the average BT RF power is three orders of magnitude lower than of the cellphone under non-optimal conditions.
Although I havenâ(TM)t tried Beats, I am invested in a pair of Shure SE535s which I love, and which have the 3.5mm connector and need a reasonable amount of ampification to sound great. Sorry apple, but I very much miss the old headphone jack... May I add that as I have no choice but to use the lightening to 3.5mm analogue converter dongle, has anyone performed a study on the quality of audio coming out of it?
Thatâ(TM)s my concern too.
Sigh. We really need better science education. Or are this many people just failing to absorb basic facts and thinking skills?
Around the iPhone 4, I found out that my earbuds were often stuttering and failing due to the cable strands breaking. I switched to Bluetooth. It hasn't been flawless to be sure, but the comfort of cordless/wireless sound is so awesome that I also want it everywhere else.
To be sure, I'd call it pretty good but not great. For instance, while there's plenty of choice among earbuds, I'm still looking for a bluetooth version of the Sennheiser HD 558. The ear cups are easily the biggest (inside diameter 2.75" or 7 cm) and I haven't found a $100 replacement of those.
Another problem is that all this Bluetooth stuff requires micro-USB. While great at its time, I now really want USB-C to charge.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
...we're dealing with yet ANOTHER bad ass over here.
Does anyone reading this not have a pile of USB chargers by now? I know I do. I don't need another in the box with the phone. If I do need a charger then I'd like a choice between getting the tiny 5 watt charger or the bigger 30 watt charger.
Maybe even leave out the painfully short 1 meter cable, I'd prefer the 2 meter cable instead. I'd buy a 3 meter cable if I could find one. I'd also like the choice between USB-A and USB-C instead of Apple making that choice for me.
I know that with most any new electronic device I'll need to buy accessories. This may be because the accessories that come with are the wrong size/length/shape, have the wrong connector, or simply be not included. I plan for that and make that part of my budget for the device.
I bought a new display a few months ago, and it came with a VGA cable in the box. Thanks for nothing, I'll just toss that cable in a box with the rest of the VGA cables I'll be taking to the recycling center. What a waste. Apple has to know that at some point people will have moved on from the 1/8 inch connector. Maybe they picked that time too soon. Better than being too late and seeing cables and adapters ending up being tossed out unused.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I don't mind dropping the headphone jack - but I'm not going to buy headphones just for use on an iPhone, that I can't use with my laptop/PC.
So I've stuck with the iPhone 6S, and will just have to hope that it never breaks.
I have to charge the key fob for my BMW with USB. It's getting totally out of hand.
If they made all these devices with wireless charging I wouldn't mind as much.
Apple has to get more money per follower, it's the only way to hold the stock up. Come on, don't be stingy, Apple needs your retirement savings more than you do! What are you, selfish?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Hey now, the past had all the great gadgetry that was built to last
Indeed. There are Model-T Fords more than a century old, but you never see 100 year old Teslas.
Survivorship Bias
Also, what about forgetting they're in and going for a swim, or a shower? What about bumping into someone or tripping down the stairs and losing them forever?
I always figure that anyone who think wireless peripherals are a good idea have no kids. Kids are pretty good at looking after the phone itself, but peripherals should be considered disposable.
I lost count how many times earbuds have been lost or destroyed by various means; death by laundry cycle is a very common one. I'd be upset about this if they cost more than $10 to replace.
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> These are First World problems, people! Get a grip and maybe even marvel at all the technology that's available to you now.
Reading people's complaints about First World problems is also a First World problem. So I suggest you get a grip, sir!
Exact reverse thing noticed here.
I and most of my friends own good speaker sets in our home.
Up until recently, playing music (e.g.: at a party) basically meant plugging the cable into the jack of whatever device (the hosts' laptop, the smartphone of whomever has a nicr playlist the want to share).
Now suddenly, there is a bunch of people who simply cannot plug their music. Those with the "courageous" iPhones, or with the Chinese copycats that decided to follow the trend without muxh thinking.
(Okay, for some idiots with weird musical taste, you're actually happy that they can't subject their music to all the innocent bystanders)
Now its fumbling around to find the adequate dongle (Lightning, USB-C) to plug into (and hope the device still has enough battery).
Or trying to find which service to use to share the music (oh, you're using Spotify? But I have all my playlist on Apple music / ad youtube playlists).
Or you need to buy a cheap BT receiver module, except you don't want to pay 500â for it, so you get it from aliexpress and now need to hope that it will work as intended.
Or you need to buy a new set of speakers with built in Bluetooth receiver, that will cost more and be less durable and shittier than the one you have.
(and then hope that the Bluetooth connection will work as intended).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Maybe instead of throwing a fit over not being able to find the right kind of Bluetooth headset you STFU and buy the $10 adapter for a 1/8 inch headset plug.
Or maybe he buys a non-Crapple device instead, calls you up, and tells *you* to STFU.
But you won't hear him because your Crapple wireless headphones need a recharge.
Oh, and can you guess what happens to those Crapple wireless headphones when there's a nearby lightning strike? My friend knows. Lightning struck a tree on the property next door to his house and every one of the Crapple wireless headphones (wife & kids) in his house got toasted, even the ones sitting in drawers unconnected. After that, he switched brands to devices that still support wired headphones.
Crapple seems intent on "innovating" itself right out of business.
There are Model-T Fords more than a century old, but you never see 100 year old Teslas.
. . . I'm sure Rei has one, and will prove you wrong . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU
Fuck you, Apple.
Apple have gone a long way, from being courageous to heroic!
Keep up the good work apple...
Can't address the first items, but there are Bluetooth dongles for receiving audio that you can plug in whatever headphones you like. They tend to target people with high-end headphones and as such have very good DACs of their own, but you can use them however you like. Even with cheap off-brand earbuds.
There will come an iphone with no physical ports, no buttons, no screen... just an off-beige slab of plastic that you buy, and charge, which tracks your movements. The perfect product.
Is Apple aware that many airlines won't let you use wireless headphones and devices during flight? Or does Apple just wish us to be "courageous"?
You meant 'courageous', surely.
No sig today...
You forgot about connecting the phone to your home/car aux. How are we supposed to do that now?
At a retail price of US $1,024.50 you'd think they'd include the dongle.
But wait, there's more - the dongle is DCMA protected and lists for US $39.95.
CAP === 'combers'
I tried the wireless thing with some decent mid-range Bluetooth noise cancelling headphones for 170 Euros. It was a drag. Flaky connections breaking down after 30 minutes, increased charging hell with smartphone, tablet, notebook and then headset, sub par Bluetooth connectivity on Linux and Chromebooks, etc.
I replaced the mobile wireless attempt with a regular wired headset without noise cancelling. It's a small step back again put it's feasible for everyday usage opposite wireless. At least in my experience. Maybe in 10 years I'll try it again.
Bottom line: Wireless audio isn't there yet. For professional mics maybe, but not for mobile everyday devices. We probably need a more stable standard than Bluetooth and better signal and power efficiency until this concept is usable.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Are wireless headphones even safe?
Compared to the threat of getting a headphone cord wrapped around your neck? Yes, wireless headphones are safe.
The "threat" of strangulation by headphone has me visualizing a mash-up between IT Crowd and John Wick for some reason.
I mean c'mon, strangling evil hipsters by their old-fashioned cords would be one hell of a signature move for a super-nerd assassin...
I am 62 years old and I GUARANTEE I could kick your ass in hand to hand combat.
Is someone opening a book on this fight?
They don't do a lot of transmitting, do they? Certainly nothing compared to cell phones.
Kung Po is more my style.
I believe bluetooth receivers that can then transmit to a car aux have been invented, on the basis that I have one. And one for home audio connection.
So far, the Bluetooth headset I have used with the iPhone have had the most terrible latency. The audio sometimes is a full second behind. A work I got a Plantronics noise canceling set and they are unusable while watching YouTube videos using Bluetooth. I had another pair from a different manufacturer and it was equally bad.
The same goes for the Bluetooth connection to my car, a Panasonic head unit.
Isn’t there someone in the protocol to counter the lag? I thought I read something about that somewhere.
L'Idiot
They are RECEIVERS.
As someone likely to buy the next iPhone, I sure donâ(TM)t. If I want to use headphones, which is rare anyway, I sure donâ(TM)t want to have to deal with a wire. Iâ(TM)ll be using wireless headphones, thanks. But Iâ(TM)m a lot more likely to be sending itâ(TM)s output to a wireless speaker anyway.
No headphone jack? No problem. No dongle? No problem.
There is a handshake. Part of the time they are transmitting.
I have an eco-drive watch, so I never have to deal with batteries. I have big ass Bluetooth headphones for around the house, that last for a week on a charge, but when I am outside, it is 100% wired, because I donâ(TM)t want to be out of battery.
All I know is that there is a mental disorder that needs to be defined, for folks that get a case of steamy panties over others being upset over the loss of the 3.5mm plug.
The 3.5 mm plug only disappeared when Apple had a product to profit from it. Supply chain genius scared up the timing, but the original move was 100% for Apple profit, not âoecourageâ
Rei has a spot of two month old Elon spunk on her blue dress. (bagged and put away in her closet!)
Security company Armis has found a collection of eight exploits, collectively called BlueBorne, that can allow an attacker access to your phone without touching it. The attack can allow access to computers and phones, as well as IoT devices.
“Armis believes many more vulnerabilities await discovery in the various platforms using Bluetooth. These vulnerabilities are fully operational, and can be successfully exploited, as demonstrated in our research. The BlueBorne attack vector can be used to conduct a large range of offenses, including remote code execution as well as Man-in-The-Middle attacks.
“BlueBorne affects pretty much every device we use. Turns that Bluetooth into a rotten black one. Don’t be surprised if you have to go see your security dentist on this one,” said Ralph Echemendia, CEO of Seguru.
As you can see from this video, the vector allows the hacker to identify a device, connect to it via Bluetooth, and then begin controlling the screen and apps. It’s not completely secretive, however, because in activating the exploits you “wake up” the device.
The complex vector begins by finding a device to hack. This includes forcing the device to give up information about itself and then, ultimately, release keys and passwords “in an attack that very much resembles heartbleed,” the exploit that forced many web servers to display passwords and other keys remotely.
The next step is a set of code executions that allows for full control of the device. “This vulnerability resides in the Bluetooth Network Encapsulation Protocol (BNEP) service, which enables internet sharing over a Bluetooth connection (tethering). Due to a flaw in the BNEP service, a hacker can trigger a surgical memory corruption, which is easy to exploit and enables him to run code on the device, effectively granting him complete control,” write the researchers.
Finally, when the hacker has access they are able to begin streaming data from the device in a “man-in-the-middle” attack. “The vulnerability resides in the PAN profile of the Bluetooth stack, and enables the attacker to create a malicious network interface on the victim’s device, re-configure IP routing and force the device to transmit all communication through the malicious network interface. This attack does not require any user interaction, authentication or pairing, making it practically invisible.”
Windows and iOS phones are protected and Google users are receiving a patch today. Other devices running older versions of Android and Linux could be vulnerable.
How do you stay safe? Keep all of your devices updated regularly and be wary of older IoT devices. In most cases the problems associated with BlueBorne vectors should be patched by major players in the electronics space but less popular devices could still be vulnerable to attack.
“New solutions are needed to address the new airborne attack vector, especially those that make air gapping irrelevant. Additionally, there will need to be more attention and research as new protocols are using for consumers and businesses alike. With the large number of desktop, mobile, and IoT devices only increasing, it is critical we can ensure these types of vulnerabilities are not exploited,” wrote Armis.
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09...
...years ago I ordered an Iphone from a chinese reseller, and in the box there was just the earphone.
it's hard to imagine that customers will take the news well.
Seriously!? Has the writer not paid attention to the Apple customer profile for the last 20 years? Not only will Apple customers take the abuse well, they will drop their pants, bend over, and ask to be anally abused with 1 grit sandpaper. Then they will kindly ask Apple to include rougher sandpaper (and charge an extra $80 for it), because 1 grit isn't edgy enough.
Sigh. You really need to watch more George Carlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
No sig today...
It's not the power, it's the wavelength.
No sig today...
The only way to get instantaneous playback on the instruments on these Apple devices has been plugging it to amplifier.
Are they going to be able to quarantee lag-free playback using the hundreds of apple music apps using the Bluetooth.
I think not!
Charge my phone, charge my watch, and now my headphones, too? That's FOUR things to keep track of how much charge they have!
Ermagherd! Ferst wherld Preerblerms!
Jeebuz, then just don't buy an Apple, and don't buy wireless earbuds for an Android while you are at it.
If the rumor is true - and we have the Apple haters hoping beyond hope that it is true, than its pretty likely that Apple found out that the adapter was pretty much unused.
I used mine exactly once, just to try it out. Now it sits in the desk drawer.
But I use Bluetooth except in the cases where I use studio headsets. And why I would need studio headsets on a smartphone is a mystery. Of course even then I have to use a 1/4 inch to 1/8th inch adapter to plug into the lightning adapter.
Which I'd have to use it on my Androids as well. Either way, an adapter. So I use Bluetooth on my Androids as well.
Why? Because I didn't get a wireless smartphone to have to use wires on it.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'm an old Apple hand but this really is self-interest masquerading as a feature. Headphones with wires are not only incredibly inexpensive, but guaranteed to work barring physical damage and aren't immediately devalued by irreplaceable battery cycle degradation.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Because the wires run all the way back to the the record factory. Riiiight.
No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
I'll worry when they use X-rays or gamma rays for transmission.
Safety != Security
Safety is keeping the world unharmed by your device
Security is keeping the device unharmed by the world (Or rather the attackers inhabiting it)
Odds are the 62 year old will play to win and the other has a glass brain.
To further expand the 62 year old grew up when kids had to be tough. Now you little SJW darlings are not prepared for a real fight.
From the onset of Bluetoooth it has never been secure, even when 'off'. It has always been an attack vector to gain access to a smart/dumb phone. NSA crap. Welcome to this modern world. :/
It's power and wavelength.
Because the wires run all the way back to the the record factory. Riiiight.
I dunno - any environment I'll be listening to music with a shitty smartphone will be impossible to achieve anything like fidelity. So I don't worry about any issues like that.
Occam's explains all of this. Few people who like Apple products care about the little adapter - that's what it is, an adapter. A dongle is something else indeed, but those who are fans of Chevies, H^H^H^H^H^H^H Androids - sorry about that - just find it a talking point. You aren't likely to ever buy aniPhone, but it's oh so much fun to bitch about them. For all the excuses of why it is so damn critical to have that superannuated 18th inch ( that's 3.5 mm for the metric-only crowd) phone jack, the simple answer is that you hate apple Products, so it is yet another unforgivable assult on your finely tuned sensibilities.
Meanwhile, myself and a lot of others simply use Bluetooth like we have for years. It even works on Android phones and tablets.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"Live for your Apple product, HUMAN!"
Respect their courage! ... charge my tablet, charge my laptop, ...
It seems much more likely that you would be hit by a car because you're listening to headphones while crossing the street, than you are to actually die from strangulation by headphones. If that's the case, then wireless headphones are just as dangerous.
Go out your head in a microwave, defeat the interlock, and get back to us on that...
Apple Exec: "Our products are good, and people like them, but we need to create a constant revenue stream. We need to start selling disposable electronics."
"First, they are receivers, not transmitters."
That isn't how Bluetooth works at all, dumbass. Do you know what pairing is? That's a transmit/receive operation. Bluetooth REQUIRES BOTH.
Whomever modded you up needs to have their mod privileges revoked.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
RECEIVERS do not TRANSMIT
Perhaps the only battery that could do that is an LiFePO4 that is oversized for the application, since cycle life increases as depth of discharge decreases. It would be too big for a marketing department to approve it.
A replaceable rechargeable battery in the headphones would also do the trick, I think.
Go out your head in a microwave
WTF is only his head gay, WTF would his microwave care?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Mom? Is that you?
iOS does not support AptX, AptX HD, nor LDAC (all of which are much higher quality audio than AAC or SBC). Note that at least macOS supports the AptX codecs.
iOS does not support any files higher than 24/48, meaning all the new, high res and enhanced (like MQA) audio is DOA for your iPhone and iPad. Sure, you CAN maintain downgraded copies to handle, but now you have to double your library.
Apple doesn't really care about audio, at least from a portable standpoint. It's no surprise they would kill off the dominant connection mode - that also guarantees the highest audio quality (the DACs in most cellphones are typically MUCH better than what you get in a headphone; lots of AKM and ADI in cellphones, not so much in portable products). They don't really care about music - so if YOU care about music, then why pay attention to Apple?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Can't promote a site when it won't load, dipshit. First thing to do - find real hosting that isn't from Africa.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
How do they pair with the phone? How do they let the phone know they're present, operational, and waiting for audio? How do they let the phone know you've just pressed the pause button? Idiot, they're not just receivers, they're also transmitters. The lack of understanding of technology on this tech site recently is fucking astounding.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
How about when you find out that there aren't actually batteries in the wireless headphones?
I'm so sick of you wired headphone people crying, if bluetooth isn't good enough for you, get a decent PMP or phone that still has a jack.
There's a lot of truth in what you say. I'm 65 and I've been in about three dozen real fights in my life, most of them before I was 25. I've been knocked out a couple of times and also knocked out the other guy a couple of times. I came way too close to killing a guy in college with my bare hands. That was my last fight because I realized the damage I could do to another human being. Nowadays I wouldn't fight if you paid me, and I've learned that revenge is safer and more satisfying.
Remember, when us "old" people were young, there was no protection from bullies. It was either learn to defend yourself or suffer the consequences. You learned fast.
Doing without them is exactly the plan. My headphones ain't broke, why fix them? I know Apple needs to reach the next -illion on their scorecard, but I am a businessman too. Following that, when I make a purchase, my concerns are more along the lines of utility, reliability, cost-effectiveness...
Bluetooth uses 2.4 GHz, just like wifi can. Wifi power is often in the range of 100-200 mW. Some LTE bands are 2.3Ghz and 2.5 Ghz.
2.4 Ghz is non ionizing. If you're concerned about absorbing heat from it, it's comparable to the head from a small LED. It's insignificantly small.
It's also the distance and duration. An earbud in your ear is putting half its power directly into your head (the other half is directed away from you). Not only is more than half of a phone's power radiated away from your head (through the back and sides, that power is spread over a larger area simply by the fact that the antenna is larger. Then, you factor in distance, taking into account the fact that electromagnetic radiation propagates through 3d space, and you quickly find that the amount of radiation reaching any part of the body is less than that of the earbuds.
Quick math:
Earbuds: 2.5mw x 2 = 5mw
Divide by 2 to account for roughly half the radiation being directed away from you = 2.5mw
The portion of the earbud that goes into your ear is going to have a surface area of roughly 1 square centimeter. There are two of them, so we divide by that to determine exposure per square centimeter: 2.5/2 = 1.25mW
Non-ideal phone: 2000mw x 1 = 2000mw
Only radiation emitted from one of six faces of the device reaches the head: 2000/6 = 333.3mw
The dimensions of that face (we'll use an iPhone 8, not even the + model, to make it more fair to Artem's argument) are 6.73cm by 13.84cm, yielding a surface area of 93.1432cm^2. We'll round this down to 90 to account for the rounded corners. 333.3/90 = 3.7mw per cm^2
Now, to remain fair to Artem's argument (and keep the math simple, since there are too many viariables, such as the angle at which you're holding the phone, the size of your head, and the exact distance at which you hold it), we'll ignore that a portion of that is going to radiate around your head. This is fine by me, we're talking worst case, after all. Now, if you hold the phone 1cm from your ear, that puts it 2cm from the closest part of your cheek, and at least 3cm away from the farthest. Following the law of inverse squares, at 1cm you get 3.7^0.5mw, or 1.92mw per cm^2; at 2cm you get 1.92^0.5mw, or 1.39mw per cm^2; and at 3cm you get 1.39^0.5mw, or 1.18mw per cm^2.
If we assume the average ear is roughly oval and roughly 2.5x3.5cm, we get an area of roughly 24cm^2. Since the ear is a 3d structure, we'll halve this and say 12cm^2 of the phone is 1cm away, and assume half of the remaining surface (90 - 12 = 78; 78/2 = 39) is 2cm away and the rest (39) is 3cm away, we get the following:
(12 * 1.92) + (39 * 1.39) + (39 * 1.18) = 123.27mw reaching you head, spread over 90cm^2, which yields an average of 123.27/90 = 1.37mw per cm^2.
Right, so under the absolute worst case conditions, and with estimates and assumptions favoring Artem's argument, that phone is dumping a whole 0.12mw (e.g. rounding error) more into your head, despite its transmit power being orders of magnitude higher.
As for duration: The average phone user will have their phone to their ear for an hour a day (most are much less, a handful are much more, but it averages out to an hour), while the average headphone user will have them on for 4 hours.
Roughly equal exposure assuming roughly equal exposure duration; but the headphone users will see roughly 4x the exposure in the real world.
Now, we've got studies linking cellphone radiation and ADHD. I haven't read them, I don't know how conclusive they are, but I'm assuming not very since they seem to be relatively early studies. They're enough, however, to suggest that EM radiation may not be as harmless as we all think; and that's at frequencies that aren't right next to the one your microwave uses to boil water. Bluetooth is your microwave's little cousin. As you so astutely point out, that matters; a lot.
Yes, more research is needed. Right now, I don't believe they're unsafe, but I don't have enough data to be meaningfully certain of that; I simply don't use them because they sound like shit to me. Yes, even Apt-X and (because most of my music is not encoded in AAC, so there are re-encoding artifacts that are very audible) AAC. That's fine for a noisy
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
...everyone goes after Google for being a monopoly, while completely ingoring Apple's anti-consumer, anti-competitive behavior.
You lose power with distance, and a microwave has enough power at the right wavelength to be harmful at a good distance. How about you try it.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
While I'll back you up with your second point, one life lesson that seems to have escaped you is that you don't post messages threatening physical harm to others in a public forum nowadays.
Just sayin'
...we're dealing with a smart ass over here.
kung pao chicken?
Seriously? You’re 62 years old? This is modded insightful?
Oh yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad! Na na na na na nah stick your head in doo doo.
This kind of tech ignorance is apple target market.
Since they don't seem to have room for that in a phone any longer, I won't hold my breath.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
That actually sounds like pretty bad design. Any key fob I have gets a watch battery and lasts for two or three years. I'm surprised BMW would make their owners put up with something like that. We need key hooks by the front door with USB plugs now?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Yup, us too. We went back to buying overstock 'stock' Samsung phone headphones. They work for what the kids need them for and are the only ones we found that are comfortable for them.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Wait until you need to keep track of which headphones Apple allows to work with this phone. Remember ipod docks? Remember that each new iPhone/pod refused to work unless you bought a brand new dock - each with it's own licensing fee to Apple? How soon before the headphones have to be Apple licensed to work, or are in a reduced quality mode etc? One more generation of devices or sooner?
Most cars have bluetooth now, unfortunately this will give you the bluetooth limitation for sound quality. My vehicle's phone plugs in via USB but the audio still goes through bluetooth. I'm pretty pissed about that.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Your analysis could be spot on, except ... some people don't use earbuds (like me - I only use wireless headphones) and then earbuds' antennas are usually outside. Case in point: Apple AirPods Teardown - check out step 9.
You still have closer proximity with AirPods. The antenna is in the piece that hangs down, which rests against your earlobe. Same power, same distance, dissipation is going to be 1/6 rather than 1/2, but over 1/6 the surface area, so double the dose per cm^2. AirPods are actually worse in that regard.
...
... until you factor in frequency.
Wireless cans (and good on you for using those, earbuds are shit to begin with) are going to give you about 1/4 the radiation at he point where the antenna resides. Offset by the fact that you likely use them 4x longer than the average phone user would use their phone, it's a wash...
We, as a society, still have much to learn in this field. It may well be perfectly safe, but it may well not be. Don't discount that simply because the aggregate transmit power is lower than phone (which we're still not sure are safe) because, as demonstrated, the dosage is the same; in some cases, even higher.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Indeed. The ignorant, and the people who must work with or for them. I own Macs because my clients use them and I have to make sure the work I do for them works on their platform of choice.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Short answer: because they are transceivers.
Correct. so you remove the "remove-your-genes-from-being-so-stupid" from both sides, leaving the strangulation-by-headphone being more likely to kill you then tumor-by-bluetooth.
iPhone for 2020 said to have no battery and for 2021 the screen will finally be removed. Onward and upward, Apple!
Wait until you need to keep track of which headphones Apple allows to work with this phone. Remember ipod docks? Remember that each new iPhone/pod refused to work unless you bought a brand new dock - each with it's own licensing fee to Apple? How soon before the headphones have to be Apple licensed to work, or are in a reduced quality mode etc? One more generation of devices or sooner?
So far, I believe the list is... all Bluetooth headphones. And any wired headphone with a dongle. Oh, and any wired headphones plugged into a Bluetooth transceiver, also available for about ten bucks on Amazon. Feel free to bookmark this compatibility list.
I mean... I get it.. Apple took away the headphone port, and now want to take away the dongle. But you have to know in your heart that they thought about it, researched it, and came to the conclusion that the number of people who will no longer buy an iPhone over this issue is small enough to not care about.
DMCA protected and lists for US $39.95 is code for it's $9.00 at the Apple Store and as cheap as $5.80 for a two pack of third party on Amazon. Also, they have phones other than the iPhone X for a bit less money. And an entire universe of phones running Android if you really are not a fan of their stuff.
there's a rumor going around that I won't buy any more Apple things
EE here. They're definetly safer than holding your cellphone up to your head. Short range bluetooth (class 2) runs up to 2.5mw. A cellphone by comparison can transmit up to 3w aka 1200x more powerful.
Anyone else notice the way the first third or so of the comments mostly sound like Apple shills talking about how great of a thing this, how this is "a win for consumers" (miss me with that shit, nothing that requires people to buy wireless headphones that are exponentially more expensive than wired ones is a win), how great bluetooth headphones are and how shitty wired headphones are, all while doing some product placement? And then how the rest of the comments are heavy on people's long term disappointment in Apple, it's shitty business practices, and it's intentional crippling of good technology to slang it's own garbage? Funny how that works...
...can have mine and those of a couple of hundred million other users who don't need it.
Can we stop pretending that you don't want to listen to my music?
What you forget is that >99% of the time bluetooth headphones are not transmitting, because their primary purpose is to receive the audio transmission and convert it to sound. So perhaps divide your calculated exposure by 100?
If that's how you and Apple feel, then why does the iPhone still have a Lightning port? They need to get with the times and have wireless charging. Even my old ass LG G3 from 2014 has wireless charging.
Of course, I disagree and see the value in having wired connections. What is the point of a phone having a pretty good DAC and audio quality if it all goes to shit because you have to use lossy Bluetooth audio compression?
Oh, so my headphones just magically tell my phone that they are present and ready to pair? The buttons just magically tell my phone to play/pause, skip tracks and adjust volume?
I agree that they are very low power and unlikely to be dangerous, but saying that they aren't transmitters is stupid.
I heard that Apple will not be including a phone the next iPhone box. This will make it so much easier for iPhone customers to function and have a normal, uplifting life. Pure genius.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Was that science? You're fired!
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Ruined a $250 set of water proof Bluetooth headphones...in water.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Smartphones are microcomputers for people who can't afford a real one. This is going to include people who live with no running water, no electricity (in the usual sense. They'll do with solar panel or maybe muscle power) and 4G LTE as their only computer networking option.
So yes, charging while playing music may be important. Music playback can be pretty important in a social setting. You can get a 12V class D amplifier (~90% power efficiency) with bass/treble controls for less than $20 and hifi quality, plug any old or new passive speakers into it (4 ohms to 8 ohms). It only has analog wired inputs. The result is loud and high quality such that it'll do for a gathering of 50 people.
If everything is on battery you'll save considerable power by not running two bluetooth radios, on top of being able to top up or maintain the phone battery.
What grim maths/science. A lot more that 1/6th of the radiation from a phone next to your head goes into your head.
> also there's another motorcycle dealer down the street also an entire universe of vehicles
Good for them and whoever you're talking to.
We'll be over here discussing the gyp.
1) What is your beef with "old folk" ? I am 62 years old and I GUARANTEE I could kick your ass in hand to hand combat.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
1) What is your beef with "old folk" ? I am 62 years old and I GUARANTEE I could kick your ass in hand to hand combat.
Also, what on earth does that have to do with wireless headphones, or wired ones for that matter?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
From an e-waste perspective, I think this is a good idea. They (and Samsung and everyone else) should quit bundling the headphones and the power plug too. I've got quite a few of each that I've never used.
Wireless is the way to go, let's not get stuck in the past like old folk but move forward.
1) What is your beef with "old folk" ? I am 62 years old and I GUARANTEE I could kick your ass in hand to hand combat.
Blanket guarantees are sort of dangerous. I remember phoning while at some climbers' meeting and then explaining apologetically that I was sort of the LaTeX support for my ex. Immediately a climber pipped up and stated "oh, I know something who'd be better than you". Which piqued my interest since I was pretty sure that I'd have met anybody in Germany qualifying for that description or at least corresponded. Turns out that the guy in question had written his PhD thesis with LaTeX. Well... I was amused. Climbers should actually be used to "check first, brag later".
That'd be what I was getting at. A receiver that also transmits is called a transceiver; the idiot I was replying to was insistent that bluetooth headphones were only receivers.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Wow, I should buy Apple stock shortly before the release, and sell shortly after. Launch day profits will be phenomenal, which will shoot the stock through the roof, but I expect it to tank shortly after.
If only what you said were true... and I had enough cash on hand to buy a few thousand shares.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
What you are forgetting is that they're actually constantly transmitting acknowledgment packets so the device knows they're still there. If you have a pair with removable batteries, try pulling the battery sometime while they're playing music, and count how long it takes the phone to realize they're no longer there and stop playback. It's almost instantaneous, because there is a constant flow of ACK packets (to borrow a term from the TCP stack) being sent.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Odds are the 62 year old will play to win and the other has a glass brain.
Not sure about the other guy, but I ( I am the OP ) will use street fighting techniques to make sure it's over very quickly.
John Steinbeck said : "Never pick a fight with an old man - if he cannot beat you he might just kill you".
John Steinbeck was a smart man.
Actually, it's a lot less. The antenna is behind the screen, which acts as a shield. I was being polite and ignoring that fact in order to give Artem's argument a fighting chance. Now, back when we had flip phones with external antennae, you would have been correct.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills.
.
.
And then you woke up, surrounded by empty Cheetos bags and your dirty underwear, with WoW on the screen of your basement computer.
Here's a clue for you, junior :
A person who has graduated from BUD/S doesn't talk about what they have done like you are trying to do. REAL badasses don't need to talk.
...we're dealing with still another bad ass here.
A person who has graduated from BUD/S doesn't talk about what they have done like you are trying to do. REAL badasses don't need to talk.
o
. <-- the joke
I mean wow, you managed to not have the joke go flying over your head and yet you still managed not to get it. I guess being oblivious is an AC special skill?
PS you missed the bit about "gorilla warfare".
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Having recently rented a few late model cars, in every one of them, the "Aux in" with the classic 3.5 mm plug sounded better than the bluetooth. Apple Phone.
What other company displays such courageousity?
Well, there is Facebook. They like to courage their users right up the bum, too.
And Google.
And Microsoft.
Boy, it seems like the entire tech industry likes to eff over their customers now. In the past, tech companies loved their users and only tried to eff each other over.
I wonder if, one day, people will wake up and realize they don't need this crap? That the tech industry has become little more than the fashion industry? That they really don't need to keep up with the Kardashians.
...we're dealing with a bad ass here.
Three dozen fights before 25? Sounds like you're both an asshole and a shitty fighter. You're a terrible bragger.
Dongles !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I need Dongles !
aaaaaaa
Myself and almost everyone else that bought an iPhone 7 still has their dongle sitting new in the box. We will sell you ours for the same price as replacements that are sold at retail. Gotta love how Apple stuff retains value in the aftermarket. Actually, wait about a month and I will have an iPhone 7 to sell you as well since I'm ditching iOS for Android and almost have the iPhone paid off.
-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
If you have a pair with removable batteries, try pulling the battery sometime while they're playing music, and count how long it takes the phone to realize they're no longer there and stop playback.
How long would you expect them to continue operating after pulling the battery if they weren't transmitting ACK packets?
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
Read what I wrote... The phone reacts immediately.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
To clarify, I would expect the headphones to stop working as soon as power is removed, because I'm not an idiot. I would also expect the phone to continue trying to send audio to them until it realizes they're no longer there (e.g. until it doesn't receive an ack packet in time), and that's precisely what it does. When the bluetooth headphones disconnect, the phone either stops playback altogether, or reverts to its internal speaker. Because ack packets are being sent constantly, this is almost immediate, as well.
I also, perhaps foolishly, expect that people here will have some reading comprehension. Now, if you re-read what you quoted, and use those reading comprehension skills I'm sure you learned in 3rd grade, you'll note that I'm talking about how long the phone continues trying to send audio to the headphones after you remove their battery, not how long the headphones stay on.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.