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The Touch Bar Could Replace the Keyboard on Future Macbooks (cnet.com)
Apple's new patent applications hint at more touch-sensitive surfaces and virtual keyboards. From a report: In the wake of user complaints and multiple lawsuits concerning problems with the "butterfly switch" keyboard Apple has used in its laptops since 2016, the company may be developing new user interfaces that depend less on moving mechanical parts. The company has filed three new keyboard-related patents, Mashable reported on Monday. One of the patent applications describes a laptop with a digital panel where a keyboard traditionally sits. This could be interpreted as a plan to replace the conventional keyboard with technology similar to the Touch Bar -- the row of virtual, customizable buttons that Apple debuted on the Macbook Pro in 2016. The patent also includes information about sensors and haptics embedded beneath the envisioned digital panel, which would allow it to detect and respond to user inputs such as keystrokes, taps and clicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
As usual, life imitates art.
https://www.theonion.com/apple...
This is a stupid idea and Apple should feel bad.
So basically, a clamshell iPill ... I mean iPad ... with two fragile/glass screens. I guess typing on it would be OK with some sort of clear overlay with squishy keys, but I still prefer a real keyboard.
"The Touch Bar Could Replace the Keyboard on Future Macbooks"
Dear God, please no.
I was hoping that someone would take my least favorite aspects of the newer macbook pros (a picture of an escape key (vi much?) and pictures of other buttons that take zero force to activate, littering my typing with garbage when a finger strays past the top row) and extend that frustration to every key on the keyboard.
Hey, Apple- while you're at it, why don't you give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice in it?
So basically Apple would create a clamshell iPad. Like a type screen is so much better then a mechanical one. Although Apple can't do those very well lately. So at least a type screen you can get crumbs in it. I'm glad I got over the whole Mac thing years ago, what a bunch of idiots at Apple these days designing Mac's. Must be some strange just out of college weird freaks who want to change everything.
This will never fly, it's probably pre-emptive in case someone else thinks its a good idea or for their war chest.
Just like the touch bar itself, no one else gives it positive feedback either ...
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
Quit trying to make the damn laptop so thin and put a good keyboard in it. IMHO Apple's obsession with thin is form over function.
After all, with the kind of keyboards described here, Apple's laptop computer sales would likely tank. They may want to be just a cell phone company.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
I use a keyboard that uses hall effect (magnetic) sensors instead of physical contacts. Theoretically it is nearly waterproof and won't wear out, with an exception for the bamboo version.
Hall effect, capacitive sensing, or opto-mechanical are all viable options for keyboards that are more robust than traditional rubber dome keyboards. If there were only a company that prided itself on innovation. It could perhaps make a thinner and lighter version of these designs.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
The only thing people like Cook and Schiller will listen to is when hundreds of thousands of people ( millions would be better ) quit buying the crap they are trying to shove down our throats.
Apple has made some good hardware. But recently Apple has made a bunch of poorly designed hardware and if this continues I will spend my money elsewhere, or I will keep my money and not spend it at all.
Steve Jobs was a hell of a salesman / bullshit artist and a very effective taskmaster, but if his legacy is going to be incompetents like Cook and Schiller, Steve Jobs will be defined as a loser in my view. You don't create a great company and hand the reins to fools. That would be like selling your daughter as a crack whore.
When it comes right down to it, all smart devices need a text entry mechanism. I hate using the touchscreen on my iPhone for basically anything other than a text and the examples here seem to be pushing users in that direction.
Apple Engineers: Rather than trying to come up with new ways for users to enter text into Macbooks, why don't you accept the input method that has been around for more than a century and come up with a keyboard that fixes the problems that were introduced in 2016? If you don't feel like they can be fixed than either go back to the old mechanicals or come up with new ones.
When you have a problem with your hardware, the optimal solution is not to change everybody in the world's approach to interfacing with devices, you should fix the problem.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
<rant>
Unless it is massively improved, as a mac user, I have zero interest in such 'innovation'.
These guys need to get a reality check. They're becoming the Microsoft of the early 2000's, where each new release felt like a downgrade with a barely 'better' UI.
Fix the broken pieces, before adding new ones @apple
</rant>
Dammit. I spent all my mod points before I saw this thread.
APKuck
This will never fly.
It will, most like through a window.
...to never have noticed themselves the positive value of tactile feedback??? Seriously!
Buy the rights to the model M keyboard and build a tactical laptop that you could murder a man with. Several men. And the vintage black would look cool, too.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
and apple will be kicked out of bar test + maybe others as well.
About a month ago, I speculated (only half jokingly) that Apple was knowingly and intentionally putting really crappy keyboards into their "Pro" laptops so that they could subsequently move to completely fake keyboards without the users noticing any further degradation in keyboard experience (because basically, at that point, Apple users would already be used to basically drumming their fingers on a piece of metal).
#DeleteChrome
I hate typing on the soft-keyboards on my phone. It looks like i hit the right keys but I'm always off. I will never like this nor ever buy any laptop or keyboard like this.
You would think Apple would at least be able to build a decent keyboard. At least it looks pretty and makes you think you're look cool when you show it off to people.
Just like the touch bar itself, no one else gives it positive feedback either ...
Hey, who started with giving no feedback! Or any for that matter, hell, those damn things giving you no feedback when typing IS one of the key complaints.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
At ow dey be. It am de way ob dey kind.
The latest revision of the MacBook Pro actually fixes the keyboard problems with better dust barriers.
That's why the notion that the touch bar will expand to be the whole keyboard is absurd.
What they really need to do is offer force feedback on the touch bar for presses.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple is still selling computers which are based on eight years old technology being outmatched by current Goldmont Atoms but still selling at insane prices.
Who ever thinks there is something coming up soon is a religious zealot.
I am not making fun of apple. They are another greed company. I make fun of their customers.
"Life is short and in most cases it ends with death." Sir Sinclair
From the article :
And a third patent outlines a keyboard that's been sealed beneath a protective membrane designed to keep out, presumably, destructive substances like water and dust -- the culprit accused of compromising some current-generation MacBook keyboards.
This is the most interesting of the options.
I semi-joked on other articles about wanting a laptop with a sensitive keyboard like low end things of the 70s/80s.
This might be halfway between this and a real keyboard. I'd be curious to see it. We can moan about the flat but at least there would be a benefit.
RIP is a bit much, but honestly, as a developer and long time Apple user (25+), I can't remember the last time I got excited about a new macbook. In fact, I've spent the past several years wondering where to go next.... (ubuntu + dell XPS is leading the pack these days).
A patent is not a product plan, it's speculation on valuable future technology. Patents cannot be interpreted as a plan to do anything.
The touch bar sucks ass. No feedback. It's a horrible input device.
Because this sounds like a Nintendo DS to me.
At least a Nintendo DS has a Control Pad, four face buttons, two shoulder buttons, and two system buttons. It's why a lot of game genres work better on a DS or 3DS than on the flat sheet of glass that is the input device of an iPhone or Android phone.
Another shitty virtual keyboard with only the absolute MINIMUM of haptic feedback!
Sorry I ever complained about chicklet keys! I TAKE IT ALL BACK!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Do people within Apple just continue to agree with stuff because someone higher up suggested it? No critical thoughts?
They had 'laser' based keyboards nearly a decade ago, keyboard directly on your desk surface. Not only would tapping the table endlessly hurt the finger tips, the lack of tactile feedback is awful. Also, how do you "hold down" a key or repeatedly press it?
Between this and the touch bar itself, the headphone jack (sorry, no, I'm not a luddite, I'm just someone doesn't need or want to charge inferior, bulky, expensive, bluetooth headphones) Apple is going bad places. At least for me.
Don't buy it if you don't like it.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
It's like membrane keyboards are back. But worse!
Just for being precise, the butterfly mechanism isn't the "switch". It's just a clever mechanism to keep the keycap level when you press it. The actual switch sits under this mechanism and other than with basically all other laptop keyboards this isn't a rubber-dome switch, but a mechanical stainless steel micro-switch. That's the reason this keyboard is so loud. Apple did it this way because with a traditional rubber-dome switch and a scissors-mechanism you just can't arrive at the short travel and thinness that Apple wanted.
And yes, you of course you can do the same thing more or less with a pressure-measuring touchscreen and some haptic feedback under it just as Apple already does since several generations with the iPhone home button and the MacBook trackpad. This would reduce the travel to zero, but you'd still get feedback and would have not only to touch but to press the key.
You can hate that or like it, but the thing is that apart from Apple nobody seems to even think of any kind of progress here. All other manufacturers just hesitate and then move after Apple. It was this way with the chiclet keys, it was this way with the notch and it will be the very same with laptop keyboards.
Hate it or like it, but laptops aren't the same as they were 20 years ago and won't be the same in the future. If you hate all of that, just move back to the mechanical typewriter.
I knew this was coming. Go right ahead Apple. I can spend my money somewhere else.
You know Apple "deprecated" cron, right? That kind of idiocy is a strike at the heart of "being *nix" as far as I'm concerned. The less *nixy it is, the more work it is to use it for me, because I have to support both types of OS — I have considerably better things to do than figure out what Apple's screwing up, or planning to screw up, in the latest OS.
Back OT, the awful chiclet keyboards on the macbooks weaned me off ever buying another one again. That was well before they choked the macbook's physical connectivity down to almost nothing.
Apple keyboards aren't designed to get work done that requires, you know, typing. The touch bar... that's evidence of drug-addled interior decorators getting control over Apple engineering. What a travesty. A poster-child worthy example of "form over function." The whole surface with no keys? Ridiculous.
On my Mac desktop, I use a Matias Tactile Pro, which is a decent keyboard. This thing is actually worthy of typing on.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
To do something so stupid. Most people like mechanical keyboards more than any other input device. You cannot beat the tactile response of a mechanical keyboard but hey, more power to them.
At this point the keyboard is so error-prone that an external keyboard is required for the laptop to be useable: one more slot in the 4 USB spitters I have daisy chained into the required USB dongle. Apple would probably be better off forcing people onto tablets at this point.
A laptop with a mechanical keyboard. Don't care if the laptop is 2" tick. :)
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
Apple laptops aren't designed for work anymore
*Laptop*, where mobility and compactness may be more important. When at your desk at the office or home, where people may do more typing, plug in the external keyboard, mouse and display. Working from the laptop's display and keyboard at the office is a joke, its only for those idiotic open floor plan offices that provide nothing more than crappy tables and chairs. Any employer with half a brain will provide external displays, keyboard and mice, as will any half serious home worker.
Quit trying to make the damn laptop so thin and put a good keyboard in it. IMHO Apple's obsession with thin is form over function.
The real alternative is to get an external keyboard (and mouse and display) for office and/or home. You only need to use the built-in keyboard when away from home or office.
And yes, that includes the modern Model-M keyboards from Unicomp.
Type the wrong word and further letters just cant be accessed until the word is removed.
Only approved words can be entered.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Touchstream yet.
They developed this keyboard:
https://www.engadget.com/2010/...
Maybe 8 or 10 years ago?
If you don't see it at first glance: It doesn't have keys. The whole thing is a big multi-touch surface, long before multi-touch appeared on smartphones. So you can type and the next second use it as a touchpad. It was pretty nifty.
FingerWorks, the company that made it, was acquired by Apple. Then the iPhone appeared, with multi-touch. Ever since, I've been waiting for an all-touch Apple keyboard to appear.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"What's a computer?"
Didn't Acer had the same idea in the past and didn't catch? https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
....to see the battery life on that thing ......
The Lenovo Book already does this - Its basically 2 touchscreens one in the position of the keyboard, and you have a non tactile touchscreen to type on (and in my opinion it sucks).
i really lol'ed when i read this, until i realised that probably others will copy Apple and as a result we will end up with a lot of laptops that have this kind of keyboard. just, you know, to be cool like Apple is.
just like with the phone nodge, Apple their silliness is affecting us all!
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Clearly not. So what the hell are they going to get a patent for?
I assume Apple has finally caught on that most of their customers (at least for the home/small business market) are absolute fucking morons that have no idea how to use a computer in the first place. It's nice that they can do away with physical keyboards and move on to a touchscreen since they know most of their users are probably hunt-and-peck typers in the first place.
I have the 2017 MBP with the butterfly switch keyboard and it's not that bad, but the touchbar can be super annoying because all it takes is a light brush against any of the "keys" to activate said button. As long as there is SOME kind of mechanical feedback, I am ok with it, but turning the entire keyboard into one big touchbar is just a braindead idea because it essentially turns it into a glorified tablet with none of the benefits of a tablet or a traditional laptop. But don't worry, Apple will be sure to sell you an iTac "advanced tactile-feedback" keyboard!
Dynamic keyboard buttons are a really cool idea, but why not make them actual buttons? That way you could remap the entire keyboard as you see fit and still have tactile feedback.
*vomit*
Two thoughts on this before everyone overreacts (Sorry about those of you who already did overreact):
1. The touch screen style keys could bulge up slightly and depress slightly when pressed. This would give us the tactile feedback we're used to having with mechanical keyboards with the advantages of non-mechanical devices that would last longer, possibly indefinitely (compared to your short human lifespan). Sound can be played through the speakers to give you the auditory feedback you so love (or don't in which case you can turn off the sound feedback).
2. The entire keyboard can be a display so when you don't want to use it as a keyboard you can have a clamshell book that has two displays, the primary and the keyboard. Advances in materials sciences with nano-surfaces will help those of you with greasy fingers keep your keyboard and display clean.
These are existing technologies. Time to implement them and get away from physical keyboards.
I've been a 'typist' for 50 years. I type very fast on a mechanical keyboard. I have a MacBook Pro 17" late-2011. I love it. But the dirt getting under the keyboard and wearing out of keys is a real issue that could be solved improving the experience.
For those of you who still want a traditional mechanical keyboard to lovingly stroke and fondle you can get one that connects via Bluetooth or USB. Everyone's (reasonably) happy.
Someone's been watching too much Star Trek.
Nope, no sig
...take an idea that no one likes (the Touch Bar), and double down on it. If a bar is terrible (Yuge!), then let's make an entire shifty (Courage!) keyboard out of it!
So Courage. Much Engineer. It Juxt Wosrk-bllleeeeeppp-zzxyrrrrsstt-sqeeerrnnnnnngggggg!!!
They bought Fingerworks' patents already. It's why I don't have a new Touchstream. I know it may just to be a filing to add haptic feedback, but they already own what they need to make a keyboard with no keys.
Moderators are the people.
They did that years ago in like 2008 or 9. It's called the Optimus Maximus. There are several knockoffs now. The issue has always been one of cost. LCD panels have been dropping in price though so they're getting out into the wild more often.
And yeah it does need "keys". I have used several varieties of projection keyboards and touchscreens. Without something bouncy to absorb the key pounding, your finger tips start hurting after just a few hundred words. Writing a whole novel on one would be excruciating. The cover you suggest already exists in the current keyboards. It's the silicone membrane that's under the key tops. Your suggestion that I'm sure you didn't realize, is that you want them to charge you more for 1/3rd of a keyboard. It's just like thier stooooopid headphone dongle.
"A keyboard? How quaint!"
This reminds me of the Atari 400, which had only a touch keyboard.
Well, most Mac users I know don't touch-type anyway, so it's probably just the same to them.
so we're going to take away every other option.