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The Touch Bar Could Replace the Keyboard on Future Macbooks (cnet.com)
Apple's new patent applications hint at more touch-sensitive surfaces and virtual keyboards. From a report: In the wake of user complaints and multiple lawsuits concerning problems with the "butterfly switch" keyboard Apple has used in its laptops since 2016, the company may be developing new user interfaces that depend less on moving mechanical parts. The company has filed three new keyboard-related patents, Mashable reported on Monday. One of the patent applications describes a laptop with a digital panel where a keyboard traditionally sits. This could be interpreted as a plan to replace the conventional keyboard with technology similar to the Touch Bar -- the row of virtual, customizable buttons that Apple debuted on the Macbook Pro in 2016. The patent also includes information about sensors and haptics embedded beneath the envisioned digital panel, which would allow it to detect and respond to user inputs such as keystrokes, taps and clicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
As usual, life imitates art.
https://www.theonion.com/apple...
This is a stupid idea and Apple should feel bad.
So basically, a clamshell iPill ... I mean iPad ... with two fragile/glass screens. I guess typing on it would be OK with some sort of clear overlay with squishy keys, but I still prefer a real keyboard.
I was hoping that someone would take my least favorite aspects of the newer macbook pros (a picture of an escape key (vi much?) and pictures of other buttons that take zero force to activate, littering my typing with garbage when a finger strays past the top row) and extend that frustration to every key on the keyboard.
Hey, Apple- while you're at it, why don't you give me a nice papercut and pour lemon juice in it?
This will never fly, it's probably pre-emptive in case someone else thinks its a good idea or for their war chest.
Just like the touch bar itself, no one else gives it positive feedback either ...
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
Quit trying to make the damn laptop so thin and put a good keyboard in it. IMHO Apple's obsession with thin is form over function.
After all, with the kind of keyboards described here, Apple's laptop computer sales would likely tank. They may want to be just a cell phone company.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
I use a keyboard that uses hall effect (magnetic) sensors instead of physical contacts. Theoretically it is nearly waterproof and won't wear out, with an exception for the bamboo version.
Hall effect, capacitive sensing, or opto-mechanical are all viable options for keyboards that are more robust than traditional rubber dome keyboards. If there were only a company that prided itself on innovation. It could perhaps make a thinner and lighter version of these designs.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
When it comes right down to it, all smart devices need a text entry mechanism. I hate using the touchscreen on my iPhone for basically anything other than a text and the examples here seem to be pushing users in that direction.
Apple Engineers: Rather than trying to come up with new ways for users to enter text into Macbooks, why don't you accept the input method that has been around for more than a century and come up with a keyboard that fixes the problems that were introduced in 2016? If you don't feel like they can be fixed than either go back to the old mechanicals or come up with new ones.
When you have a problem with your hardware, the optimal solution is not to change everybody in the world's approach to interfacing with devices, you should fix the problem.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
<rant>
Unless it is massively improved, as a mac user, I have zero interest in such 'innovation'.
These guys need to get a reality check. They're becoming the Microsoft of the early 2000's, where each new release felt like a downgrade with a barely 'better' UI.
Fix the broken pieces, before adding new ones @apple
</rant>
This will never fly.
It will, most like through a window.
...to never have noticed themselves the positive value of tactile feedback??? Seriously!
Buy the rights to the model M keyboard and build a tactical laptop that you could murder a man with. Several men. And the vintage black would look cool, too.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
and apple will be kicked out of bar test + maybe others as well.
About a month ago, I speculated (only half jokingly) that Apple was knowingly and intentionally putting really crappy keyboards into their "Pro" laptops so that they could subsequently move to completely fake keyboards without the users noticing any further degradation in keyboard experience (because basically, at that point, Apple users would already be used to basically drumming their fingers on a piece of metal).
#DeleteChrome
I hate typing on the soft-keyboards on my phone. It looks like i hit the right keys but I'm always off. I will never like this nor ever buy any laptop or keyboard like this.
You would think Apple would at least be able to build a decent keyboard. At least it looks pretty and makes you think you're look cool when you show it off to people.
Just like the touch bar itself, no one else gives it positive feedback either ...
Hey, who started with giving no feedback! Or any for that matter, hell, those damn things giving you no feedback when typing IS one of the key complaints.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The latest revision of the MacBook Pro actually fixes the keyboard problems with better dust barriers.
That's why the notion that the touch bar will expand to be the whole keyboard is absurd.
What they really need to do is offer force feedback on the touch bar for presses.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple is still selling computers which are based on eight years old technology being outmatched by current Goldmont Atoms but still selling at insane prices.
Who ever thinks there is something coming up soon is a religious zealot.
I am not making fun of apple. They are another greed company. I make fun of their customers.
"Life is short and in most cases it ends with death." Sir Sinclair
Steve was a cocaine dealer for most of the years his daughter was a child. But he was rich and white so it wasn't crack. Also, his daughter wasn't part of his life for a lot of her childhood.
RIP is a bit much, but honestly, as a developer and long time Apple user (25+), I can't remember the last time I got excited about a new macbook. In fact, I've spent the past several years wondering where to go next.... (ubuntu + dell XPS is leading the pack these days).
A patent is not a product plan, it's speculation on valuable future technology. Patents cannot be interpreted as a plan to do anything.
Can anyone type 120+ words per minute on one of these horrid things?
The touch bar sucks ass. No feedback. It's a horrible input device.
Because this sounds like a Nintendo DS to me.
At least a Nintendo DS has a Control Pad, four face buttons, two shoulder buttons, and two system buttons. It's why a lot of game genres work better on a DS or 3DS than on the flat sheet of glass that is the input device of an iPhone or Android phone.
Another shitty virtual keyboard with only the absolute MINIMUM of haptic feedback!
Sorry I ever complained about chicklet keys! I TAKE IT ALL BACK!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Do people within Apple just continue to agree with stuff because someone higher up suggested it? No critical thoughts?
They had 'laser' based keyboards nearly a decade ago, keyboard directly on your desk surface. Not only would tapping the table endlessly hurt the finger tips, the lack of tactile feedback is awful. Also, how do you "hold down" a key or repeatedly press it?
Between this and the touch bar itself, the headphone jack (sorry, no, I'm not a luddite, I'm just someone doesn't need or want to charge inferior, bulky, expensive, bluetooth headphones) Apple is going bad places. At least for me.
Don't buy it if you don't like it.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Just for being precise, the butterfly mechanism isn't the "switch". It's just a clever mechanism to keep the keycap level when you press it. The actual switch sits under this mechanism and other than with basically all other laptop keyboards this isn't a rubber-dome switch, but a mechanical stainless steel micro-switch. That's the reason this keyboard is so loud. Apple did it this way because with a traditional rubber-dome switch and a scissors-mechanism you just can't arrive at the short travel and thinness that Apple wanted.
And yes, you of course you can do the same thing more or less with a pressure-measuring touchscreen and some haptic feedback under it just as Apple already does since several generations with the iPhone home button and the MacBook trackpad. This would reduce the travel to zero, but you'd still get feedback and would have not only to touch but to press the key.
You can hate that or like it, but the thing is that apart from Apple nobody seems to even think of any kind of progress here. All other manufacturers just hesitate and then move after Apple. It was this way with the chiclet keys, it was this way with the notch and it will be the very same with laptop keyboards.
Hate it or like it, but laptops aren't the same as they were 20 years ago and won't be the same in the future. If you hate all of that, just move back to the mechanical typewriter.
You know Apple "deprecated" cron, right? That kind of idiocy is a strike at the heart of "being *nix" as far as I'm concerned. The less *nixy it is, the more work it is to use it for me, because I have to support both types of OS — I have considerably better things to do than figure out what Apple's screwing up, or planning to screw up, in the latest OS.
Back OT, the awful chiclet keyboards on the macbooks weaned me off ever buying another one again. That was well before they choked the macbook's physical connectivity down to almost nothing.
Apple keyboards aren't designed to get work done that requires, you know, typing. The touch bar... that's evidence of drug-addled interior decorators getting control over Apple engineering. What a travesty. A poster-child worthy example of "form over function." The whole surface with no keys? Ridiculous.
On my Mac desktop, I use a Matias Tactile Pro, which is a decent keyboard. This thing is actually worthy of typing on.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
To do something so stupid. Most people like mechanical keyboards more than any other input device. You cannot beat the tactile response of a mechanical keyboard but hey, more power to them.
I doubt That most people cannot type 120 word per minute in general.
I can normally do 60-100 myself and I have been typing for about 35 years.
Mostly what is slowing me down is making sure that I am am spelling the words correctly and making sure my fingers do not go out of sync with what I am trying to write.
Normally the old typing speed calculations of 120 wpm is for straight transcription typing where what you need to type is in front of you and you are copying what needs to be written. However being that most people don't do normal secretary jobs anymore. So they are thinking about what they will want before they type it.
With that all being said. I still would like a keyboard, I use a Mechanical Keyboard normally myself, also when getting a laptop the quality of the keyboard is on my list too. (Hence why I avoid Toshiba laptops like a plague). Having a physical response for an action that you actually do a high speed is actually extremely helpful if there is tactile feedback. I am good at typing with my phone as well with a touch screen. But I cannot continue with a long message, otherwise I have to constantly realign with my eyes to the keyboard to make sure I am correct vs feeling for the F and J key that have an indent on them to realign you hands quickly and easily.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
You only need, like, 30 keys or so - for the 30 most-common emojis. What's a computer? What's an alphabet?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
A laptop with a mechanical keyboard. Don't care if the laptop is 2" tick. :)
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
Apple laptops aren't designed for work anymore
*Laptop*, where mobility and compactness may be more important. When at your desk at the office or home, where people may do more typing, plug in the external keyboard, mouse and display. Working from the laptop's display and keyboard at the office is a joke, its only for those idiotic open floor plan offices that provide nothing more than crappy tables and chairs. Any employer with half a brain will provide external displays, keyboard and mice, as will any half serious home worker.
Quit trying to make the damn laptop so thin and put a good keyboard in it. IMHO Apple's obsession with thin is form over function.
The real alternative is to get an external keyboard (and mouse and display) for office and/or home. You only need to use the built-in keyboard when away from home or office.
And yes, that includes the modern Model-M keyboards from Unicomp.
The average user functions at the brain power of the GUI.
Just as past generations of users could only work with one mouse button.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Type the wrong word and further letters just cant be accessed until the word is removed.
Only approved words can be entered.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I'm surprised nobody mentioned Touchstream yet.
They developed this keyboard:
https://www.engadget.com/2010/...
Maybe 8 or 10 years ago?
If you don't see it at first glance: It doesn't have keys. The whole thing is a big multi-touch surface, long before multi-touch appeared on smartphones. So you can type and the next second use it as a touchpad. It was pretty nifty.
FingerWorks, the company that made it, was acquired by Apple. Then the iPhone appeared, with multi-touch. Ever since, I've been waiting for an all-touch Apple keyboard to appear.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"What's a computer?"
Didn't Acer had the same idea in the past and didn't catch? https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The Lenovo Book already does this - Its basically 2 touchscreens one in the position of the keyboard, and you have a non tactile touchscreen to type on (and in my opinion it sucks).
i really lol'ed when i read this, until i realised that probably others will copy Apple and as a result we will end up with a lot of laptops that have this kind of keyboard. just, you know, to be cool like Apple is.
just like with the phone nodge, Apple their silliness is affecting us all!
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Clearly not. So what the hell are they going to get a patent for?
Two thoughts on this before everyone overreacts (Sorry about those of you who already did overreact):
1. The touch screen style keys could bulge up slightly and depress slightly when pressed. This would give us the tactile feedback we're used to having with mechanical keyboards with the advantages of non-mechanical devices that would last longer, possibly indefinitely (compared to your short human lifespan). Sound can be played through the speakers to give you the auditory feedback you so love (or don't in which case you can turn off the sound feedback).
2. The entire keyboard can be a display so when you don't want to use it as a keyboard you can have a clamshell book that has two displays, the primary and the keyboard. Advances in materials sciences with nano-surfaces will help those of you with greasy fingers keep your keyboard and display clean.
These are existing technologies. Time to implement them and get away from physical keyboards.
I've been a 'typist' for 50 years. I type very fast on a mechanical keyboard. I have a MacBook Pro 17" late-2011. I love it. But the dirt getting under the keyboard and wearing out of keys is a real issue that could be solved improving the experience.
For those of you who still want a traditional mechanical keyboard to lovingly stroke and fondle you can get one that connects via Bluetooth or USB. Everyone's (reasonably) happy.
Someone's been watching too much Star Trek.
Nope, no sig
I have a MBP late 2011 set up as my desktop for my photo work. I have a wacom tablet hooked to it, a large IPS screen and one of the remakes of the old IBM buckling spring keyboards.....
I don't think I could type with any measure of accuracy or speed on a non-tactile keyboard.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
They bought Fingerworks' patents already. It's why I don't have a new Touchstream. I know it may just to be a filing to add haptic feedback, but they already own what they need to make a keyboard with no keys.
This reminds me of the Atari 400, which had only a touch keyboard.
Well, most Mac users I know don't touch-type anyway, so it's probably just the same to them.
so we're going to take away every other option.