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Bill Nye: We Are Not Going To Live on Mars, Let Alone Turn It Into Earth (usatoday.com)
pgmrdlm writes: Bill Nye says the idea of Mars colonization and terraforming -- making a planet more Earth-like by modifying its atmosphere -- is science fiction. "This whole idea of terraforming Mars, as respectful as I can be, are you guys high?" Nye said in an interview with USA TODAY. "We can't even take care of this planet where we live, and we're perfectly suited for it, let alone another planet." As for living on Mars permanently: Sorry, Nye says that's not happening either. "People disagree with me on this, and the reason they disagree is because they're wrong," he quipped. The famous science educator and CEO of The Planetary Society appears on National Geographic Channel's series "MARS." While the series explores human beings living on the Red Planet and even mining it, that doesn't mean Nye buys into the idea. For starters, he points to Antarctica, where scientists are stationed even during the harsh winter months but no one lives permanently.
"Nobody goes to Antarctica to raise a family. You don't go there and build a park, there's just no such thing. Nobody's gonna go settle on Mars to raise a family and have generations of Martians," Nye said. "It's not reasonable because it's so cold. And there is hardly any water. There's absolutely no food, and the big thing, I just remind these guys, there's nothing to breathe." Plus living in a dome, then putting on a spacesuit to go outside will get tiring -- fast. "When you leave your dome, you're gonna put on another dome, and I think that will get old pretty quick," he said. "Especially the smell in the spacesuit 00 all the Febreze you can pack, I think it will really help you up there."
"Nobody goes to Antarctica to raise a family. You don't go there and build a park, there's just no such thing. Nobody's gonna go settle on Mars to raise a family and have generations of Martians," Nye said. "It's not reasonable because it's so cold. And there is hardly any water. There's absolutely no food, and the big thing, I just remind these guys, there's nothing to breathe." Plus living in a dome, then putting on a spacesuit to go outside will get tiring -- fast. "When you leave your dome, you're gonna put on another dome, and I think that will get old pretty quick," he said. "Especially the smell in the spacesuit 00 all the Febreze you can pack, I think it will really help you up there."
In the interests of unity ... whatever our positions on various issues might be, can we all just agree that the guy is annoying as heck (on anything but very basic science education)? ;)
He's not even a scientist...he's an entertainer...
Aside from being cold, barren, and lacking an atmosphere... The place is covered in chemicals that are hazardous to humans. How many people would go to Antarctica if the snow was made of perchlorates.
At the moment we're showing great dexterity in de-terraforming Earth.
I think as long as we don't tackle this one we should be at least careful with prospective terraforming projects.
Because.... SPACEFORCE!
(Go ahead and down rank me. I deserve it. Sorry.)
The moon would require roughly 1,000 comets to terraform. Comets would provide both water, oxygen, and momentum (spin). Due to its weaker gravity, the moon would hold onto its atmosphere for tens of thousands of years.
Moving 1,000 comets seems not too far off from our capabilities today. Reaching the moon is definitely possible - we've done it. The only difficulty is social - as far as I know, we haven't pulled off such a multi-generational project.
. . . on the other side of the solar system. Obviously, he is right in the very short term, nobody is moving there today and, likely, not in the next decade or three. Will there be a base on mars in the next century? Maybe. Will we go there to live once we have mastered genetic engineering to adapt to any environment? Duh? We may live on Jupiter. Of course, that might be centuries away, so who gives a fuck?
I've been saying EXACTLY this since the idea of living on Mars was floated. It is stupid. We should at least figure out how to survive (without supplies) at the poles and under water. Then maybe we have the tech to do Mars. At the poles/under water you are minutes/hours from a lifeline. Mars, not so much.
Grab the 3D printed pitchforks and burn the heretic in the flames of a Space X LEO launch!
It's humanity's (offer applies to selected members only) DESTINY to colonize the UNIVERSE!
We don't even have the Concorde anymore, but clearly the CUSTOMER DEMAND to fly nowhere demands it!
This comes from someone the Valley retards will listen to. He's right, we will probably not even make it to Mars, let alone the rest. Very much agreed, anyone that believes otherwise or believes psychos like Musk have clearly done *all* the drugs.
He's not wrong... the lack of a Martian magnetosphere is a huge problem alone.
Do we need a DemoRat pimping feaux science-guy to tell us about expected Mars habitation? His ( fake ) reputation is being manufactured by unjustified reference ... very like Georgia K-12 teachers who admit not understanding linear algebra, but claim by training are damned-well able to teach it !
Hey, I have an engineering degree, too.
Do you have to listen to me pontificate on "science", only to change my opinion when the political winds change direction?
Bill Nye: There are only two genders
... there will be enough people to try.
As for success of any permanent colonization attempts? I'm sort of with Bill on this one. Right now, with our current level of technology and environmental concern, all we'll do is shit all over Mars over a dozen failed colonization attempts before anyone gets one to stick. After that, I have a feeling that a Mars colony is going to be a money loser for a long, long time. And, if they make it past the economic hurdle, I have no doubt that they will be politically tied enough to Earth to be nothing more than a outpost for a long, long time So sorry dissidents, no revolution from space is coming to foment building your {Libertarian, Socialist, Facist, No Assholes} paradise.
All this and no air, too - what's not to love?
That is all.
From Bill Nye the Strawman Guy
"We can't even take care of this planet where we live, and we're perfectly suited for it, let alone another planet."
We absolutely can take of this planet, we just aren't doing it. Like a fat man that knows everything about proper exercise and diet. Pretending that we don't know what we're doing is disingenuous and childish.
"People disagree with me on this, and the reason they disagree is because they're wrong," he quipped. The famous science educator and CEO of The Planetary Society appears on National Geographic Channel's series "MARS." While the series explores human beings living on the Red Planet and even mining it, that doesn't mean Nye buys into the idea. For starters, he points to Antarctica, where scientists are stationed even during the harsh winter months but no one lives permanently.
Of course we don't live in Antarctica, there's no point when we have delightful places like Disneyworld available. But if you invest 500 billion into making it a fun place I'm damn sure it would work just fine. And Antarctica is actually harder to work with than Mars in some cases since the materials these two ecosystems provide differ drastically. Breathing is easier in Antarctica while finding natural caves, suitable silicon-based building materials, and stable sources of wind is easier on Mars.
"Nobody goes to Antarctica to raise a family. You don't go there and build a park, there's just no such thing. Nobody's gonna go settle on Mars to raise a family and have generations of Martians," Nye said. "It's not reasonable because it's so cold. And there is hardly any water. There's absolutely no food, and the big thing, I just remind these guys, there's nothing to breathe."
The whole point of going to Mars is not because it's fun. It's to protect the human race from the extinction that certain orange people would like to lead us into. It would give us some initially expensive space for living, with hopefuuly cheaper space eventually as terraforming kicks in, that is safe from the destruction of Earth should that happen. Who has ever posited that the Mars project is "for fun"?
I must say that I have lost what little respect I had for Bill Nye. He doesn't seem to care much for scientific rigour or good faith arguments, and sounds just like any other loon on Twitter with this.
"Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done". Robert A. Heinlein
Funny how nobody ever mentions the actual problem, there's no magnetic field around Mars. Terraforming wouldn't matter even if it were possible. Earth's position to the sun and magnetic field is why we have been allowed to survive, pretty much wholesale.
We will have used up this rock long before we have figured out how to go live somewhere else.
How can we ever hope to colonize the New World, when we can't even live at peace among ourselves here in continental Europe? The climate experiences wild swings, our ships are not reliable, and the land is populated with murderous savages. I know you all really like Queen Isabella, but this is all just fantasy. There may be riches in the New World, but it will never be worth the time or effort to extract them.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Even if we fail, maybe we learn some things. I have no idea how much we learned from actual moon rocks, but I'm forever thankful for the tech that evolved out of their acquisition.
Um, are you high? Perhaps the "Science Guy" should learn a little bit about Mars before talking about it. A large portion of the planet has permafrost at or near the surface.
I'm not actually that much of a Mars advocate, and think the simplicity of using water there is overplayed (people talk about it like it's some sort of pure snow that you just pick up and melt, but it's (mostly) a rock-hard toxic brine mixed with sand and clay) - but come on, if you're going to talk about something, learn the basics.
"Define 'interesting'". "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die?"
He says we can't take care of Earth so how could we take care of Mars. The difference is the people to me.
People who live on earth are every kind of person. Most of them selfish, short-sighted, etc. I'm not trying to be insulting, but it's how it is. Just look at how we fund science and space.
But if we hand pick people who care about the sort of thing, then the greediness (for a time) won't hold people back. I'm sure if we teraform Mars we'll ruin it later once it's commercialized, but that's a different challenge.
There are plenty of places on Earth that we have not set up shop which are still a trillion times more hospitable than Mars. Go 400 km straight north of Ottawa (which in Canadian terms is pretty well next door) and you are in absolute wilderness. It is great country full of rocks, swamps and lakes but living there is hard. Except for a few valley towns, First Nations reserves and settlements, and some mining centres, people are measured in 1s and 10s per 100 square km. And it is pretty much endless. Now look at Mars - it is worse in every way. No air, no plants, no water and winters that are even colder! There is no economic argument for mining Mars when the potential of most of the Canadian Shield, the Australian Outback, and Siberia has not been explored . Even mining the ocean floor would be easier! What we need is to clean up our act here. Use less stuff, make less of a mess and start to work on the over-population problem in a sensible way (whatever that would be).
Presumably he want's people to come over to his opinion, but he does it by being condescending and insulting. Catching flies with vinegar and all that...
This is the same attitude that people (rightly) criticize Trump for.
"If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong."
-https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/arthur_c_clarke_100793
It's pretty sad that a guy that used to be the poster-child for science education and the limitless possibilities of the future has become essentially nothing more than a strident leftist mouthpiece.
cf from Bill Nye Saves the World
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Yes, that's serious. Not satire.
-Styopa
Whatever Bill Nye, bachelors in mechanical engineering guy
As much as I lament to say this the current Bill Nye that we have now is either a corrupted version or a mere shadow of the guy we had once known. I do not make these statements lightly as I had at once looked to him as a scientific role model of sorts. He is one of the people that set me on the path to being more of a man of science.
However...he has stopped dreaming apparently. Now do not get me wrong the idea of living on Mars "Currently" and I use that word as in currently we may not have the tech to do it. But again however...we have no idea what the future can hold. And it will be a bunch of crazy people that make the first trip to see if it can be done. And probably after more failures than we can count we will get a method that sticks. That is the very essence of science itself, venturing into the unknown for knowledge. And this quest can sometimes mean that it requires a stupid amount of trial and error to get something to work.
As such to just wave his hand away at the idea itself just means that whatever childhood wonder that poor man had possessed has clearly been extinguished.
Nye will eat his word when Musk bores a hole all the way t Mars
The ONLY reason companies want to push Mars exploration is a monetary reasons. To mine it and exploit it like we do this one.
During the "Gold Rush" of the mid 1800s the people who made the most money were not the miners. Most of them went broke and died mining for gold. The big money was made by the people selling equipment and supplies to the miners.
Mars is no different. A few companies will make a lot of money selling rockets, building materials and supplies. And all the people who die trying to live on Mars (or die just trying to get there) is none of their concern.
No magnetic field = no earth-like conditions, period.
How many genders are there?
The Elon Musk/Space Nutters are going to tear him alive. They fully expect Hyperloops in Mars before 2050. This is despite the fact that Musk's "Hyperloop" is rusting out in California and all he has built is a short tunnel in a parking lot.
What an absurd comparison.
First.. Antarctica? People don't live there because of *treaties*.
Can you mine in Antarctica, without the international community stopping you? What about setting up a mining community?
You know there's loads of fish there, yes? What else do the penguins eat?
No, the reason people don't live in Antarctica -- is because there are no jobs, nor the possibility of a job (even self employed) there.
Look at the *North* Pole. There are resources. And there are loads of people living there. For research, for hunting, for fishing, and for mining/resources.
This is more like Mars.
If there is work there (and riches to be made!), people will go. Typically young men, which (according to everything -- including insurance company stats and rates for drivers) are more prone to taking risk. And who will follow? Why, the ladies! Hoping to land a man who struck it rich!
People will go. People travelled to the Yukon, where (guess what) you can't grow food, you have to import everything, and may as well be the South Pole before gold was discovered.
Nye? Make a real comparison. Not one where international treaties prevent resource exploitation.
Putting humans on Mars is a pipe dream, no realistic person thinks humans can survive for any length of time. No realistic source of water, no ability to grow any sustainable food sources. These are just basics that don't seem practical at this point. But creating this interest brings new life into supporting space exploration of some kind. But spending money solving Earth's problems is money better spent.
"We can't even take care of this planet where we live, and we're perfectly suited for it, let alone another planet."
All I can say is sometimes (actually most of the time) rewriting something from scratch is easier than refactor something.
We worked our asses off and MADE it possible.
If we've learned anything from recent Sci-Fi movies, it's that you can send Matt Damon anywhere and he'll somehow survive.
Perhaps we should send him to Antarctica and have him make that place habitable before moving to Mars. Unlike Bill Nye, I think that people would miss having Matt Damon around if we lost him in space.
Cold? Well, you are going to generate power somehow, and most methods generate plenty of heat as a by-product.
Hardly any water? Well, collect some and keep reusing it. Sounds icky? Well, here on Earth we're doing the same thing, except that the water here has been recycled and reused for millions of years. That's even more icky than anything you'll find on Mars.
Absolutely no food? We've just talked about power, heat and water. If you have those three, you can make/grow food.
Nothing to breathe? There's CO2. There are plants (for growing food, see above). Why shouldn't there be oxygen?
Seriously. Dismissing life on Mars and then talking about the things that are among the easiest? What about radiation, (temporary) dependence on supply flighty that take half a year to arrive, or how to build a production infrastructure (so you can build enough domes that taking a walk won't involve donning a space suit)?
I will always see Bill Nye as the pretend for TV science guy.
I think he is right, perhaps for different reasons. We are a long way away from making the "monkeys in a can" model of space colonization workable. If we ever had sufficient technology to get there safely in significant numbers, supply the needed raw materials, manufacture or transport the needed equipment, manipulate biology to deal with various poisons and other environmental factors, etc. etc. I don't think we would be especially interested in terraforming and living on Mars. At that point we probably won't even be human anymore and will have no interest in living on Mars
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
Riches is the key word here. People took those chances because it was not that expensive to throw people at the problem and the wealth it could generate was staggering. Mars, not so much.
With stupid people electing stupid politicians there's a great incentive for some people to move to a place which is a technical meritocracy. Even if it's barren and hostile as Mars. Like populating the Earth by the Golgafrinchams in HHGG, but in reverse. There won't be any telephone sanitisers going there for sure :-)
Antarctica is a pretty poor comparison as to why people don't settle there and make a living (there are these things called treaties, and they are worded in such as way to keep it as pristine as possible, limited personal and camp sizes, no mining, etc...).
He's also wrong about how much frozen water is available because truth be told no one knows for a matter of fact yet (but some argue there is actually a great deal locked away below ground).
There is nothing technically preventing people from living in a self sustained manner (from a constant resupply standpoint) so long as they are able to use the natural resources available on mars and have the energy they need (even if water reclamation is a major concern, it is possible to recycle most of the water needed).
Last but not least, exploration and pushing onward to new vistas is one of our defining traits. Ergo, I argue Bill Nye is no longer human. He was abducted after his tv show in the 90's and replaced with one of the prune people of planet asshole.
Give us a hundred years and maybe we could grow crops in Antarctica. Dinosaurs once roamed Antarctica.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Vanilla master race, reporting in.
you can send Matt Damon anywhere and he'll somehow survive
Or, we will spend tons of resources trying to find and/or kill him.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
I blame media for inserting unqualified opinions into headlines --- sure you may have a paper with an article on an interview with Bill Nye, but his opinion on Mars doesn't deserve space in the headlines.
Bill Nye may be an intelligent person with a good deal of knowledge about science;
However, his opinion is just that -- his personal opinion, and its not from a position of reasonable authority; although it is an interesting idea to compare to Antarctica: stations on Antarctica usually have a specific purpose; travel back from Antarctica is Quick and Easy compared to travel back from Mars to Earth,
and there's really no proposition for an expedition of colonists - Antarctica is not as interesting as Mars.
He has a point that life on Mars would be difficult and have major unpleasant aspects and inconveniences.
Thats why terraforming may be a topic of especial interest - change the environment first so people can settle ---- change the atmosphere and change the climate - even if it takes many generations, and then people visiting have a more earth-like experience: not an Antarctica-like experience.
Disagreed with you. I know of his contributions to science but, and I mean this in the most respectful way, WHAT THE FUCK did you ever contribute to science Bill?
The pop-sci guy. Guess his handlers haven't briefed him on Mars yet.
...and we are all serving life-sentencies with hard labour to benefit our masters.
This is long overdue. Thank-you, Bill Nye, the Sci Guy, for stepping up and being a high profile scientist to utter the sensible truth. The world, including the United States, should put their research efforts to better use than to commit to a high risk, if not cruel dream. I don't know what kind of tea Elon Musk has been sipping. We don't want to be the ones to sacrifice our astronauts' lives, to say nothing of pouring valuable research down a black hole on a failed project that does not yield. In a world that is turning robotic, we have made some amazing accomplishments with our rovers on the Red Planet. As Bill suggests, for a lot less money and heart ache, we can build a deep freeze without oxygen or water, here on Earth, and let people try to survive inside.
I have been a huge fan of space exploration and colonization. But then I grew up.. Now I can only see the craven cynicism of the very rich who claim the earth is lost, and the survival of our species depends on moving off a planet we have evolved to live on. Why not build a domed isolated colony in Arizona? That would have a far greater chance of success towards their ends. Think of what the money spent on space exploration could achieve with dedication to research in water purification or production alone!
The best planet available to us to consider making habitable is the planet EARTH.
I'm somewhat surprised he didn't talk about the most obvious issue. Mars doesn't have strong magnetosphere. Meaning, little to no protection from solar winds bombarding the atmosphere. It does have localized magnetic fields that *could* help out with this, but the places you could safely colonized without constantly wearing shielding are going to be limited.
Humans have they can do to live in "livable" areas. Even in cities there are people that die out in the weather, etc. (homeless). If we want to "live on mars" or "colonize" it; we should start with the moon.
Are we going to go to colonize Mars in the next 10 years? Not likely. 300 years from now? Could be. If we don't blow the planet up in the next decade or two I'll be surprised but anything can happen. Thinking it'll be soon is crazy but thinking it can't happen is not science.
Mars is small, barely larger than the Moon and only has 38% surface gravity compared to Earth. Babies born there wouldn't be able to return to Earth due to weakness of their skeleton and muscles. Thus after no more than 3 generations martian beings would stop to be "Homo Sapiens Sapiens" and become a new race. They may even hate earthlings for creating their ugly, defomed race by colonizing Mars and throw nukes at us as a kind of revenge.
In contrast the planet Venus has 88% surface gravity, essentially a twin of our Earth. Only her nasty poisonous and hot atmosphere needs to be expelled and she could be a paradise. Huge work project, but much easier to do than adding a few dozen quadrillion megatons of rock to Mars so enough gravity is created.
The problem is transport. People who live in Antarctica or on oil platforms can be home in a day or two to a nice cozy home on the other side of the world. barring serious technical advances, Mars will be 6 months to a year away, with launch windows once a year or so. This is the circumstance where colonialist bureaucrats decided to take their entire family with them in the 1700's and 1800's - years of separation. Of course, colonial India, Australia or North America were a bit more livable than Mars, but it's also amazing what people will put up with. To be fair, I did not hear about many workers taking their families to far north Hudson's Bay fur trading posts in the 1700's and 1800's, but then there were local women willing to "trade" anyway.
I suspect the way it will go - first, short term (2 year or so) stints rotating in and out. Then maybe accidental births - not every woman chooses an abortion just because things are difficult. Then at what age will children be allowed to fly home? And so on...
I am tired of bringing up Antarctica argument as an example of difficulties on the interplanetary expansion.
Finally, somebody else with a name, even as dubious as Bill Nye, brings it up as well
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
If none of my tax dollars are spent in efforts to colonize Mars.
Exploration is not really even practical as there is no way to bring anything back.
For a guy that's supposed to be uplifting and encouraging to children about following their dreams, no matter how outlandish they may be, he found a swift way to call all of them retards simultaneously.
Bill Nye says the idea of Mars colonization and terraforming -- making a planet more Earth-like by modifying its atmosphere -- is science fiction.
Of course it is... for now anyway. It's so absurdly beyond our current technology that it beggars the mind. If we cannot manage controlling the climate on Earth (Terra) we sure as hell aren't going to be able to do it on Mars.
Is it utterly impossible? Maybe. Maybe not. Certainly not worth worrying about by anyone currently living. We maybe could feasibly colonize Mars within my lifetime in a very basic way. But terraforming it will take thousands of years and it will be hundreds at best before we achieve a sufficient technological sophistication to even ponder the idea seriously. I could see us inhabiting Mars but I think it's highly unrealistic to seriously try to turn the entire planet into some sort of garden. The energy requirements and economics alone should point out the folly of the idea.
^ Said some dbag at IBM a long time ago...
Venus is a better option than Mars. Venus has a nearly survivable atmosphere at 50 km to 65 km above the surface that is conceivably breathable with some filtration system and is around the surface pressure of Earth. The surface of Venus might as well be considered like the floor of our ocean... completely unlivable for people because of the pressure, but we can for periods of time live floating above the surface of the ocean.
Set up some floating outposts and see about the chemistry and biology of terraforming the atmosphere by converting some of the heavier elements into solids and liquids at scale.
Have had issues with Nye ever since he showed a confidential design on his TV Science Show, Kids Level. He didn't steal the concept personally, it was passed to him from political hacks within the Bush Senior Vice Presidency in the early 80's.
He has outed and slanted scientific discoveries to their creators harm ever since. So look at this from some kind of a political slant and you will realize more the truth of what is really going on here.
Someone is being politically advanced by this viewpoint and that is all there is to it. This viewpoint has no scientific value at all, in short; FakeScience! Not that there are not a few valid points being made by Nye in this release, the best lies usually have some grain of truth.
Yes it is a hostile environment but three things drive expansion -
1. economics
2. technology
3. discontent
The technology and economics still don't work. Those are the current limiting factors. When we get a an economic model that matches available technology to potential resources we WILL start sending large numbers of people into space. There are too many potential resources not to.
At that point it comes down to WHO will be willing to go out to the new frontier - based on history it's going to be those who are unhappy with the societal limitations here on Earth. They are probably NOT going to go out with the intent of starting a family but that will come unless there is some reason pregnancy is not viable in space.
The next big question - does it make more sense to gown down a gravity well like Mars or mine asteroids and build in space?
Once people CAN get into space cheaply they WILL go into space if they can find the freedom economic/political/societal that they can't find on earth.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
Well put. I find him annoying as fuck, because he plays such a bad cliche.
Well we cannot all be as cool as you. I'm sure you are much better and more impressive public speaker than he is. [/sarcasm] What were you expecting, a real life Buckaroo Banzai?
But, hey, if that's what sells to the cheap seats, go for it.
He has a following and is quite popular and he's a good teacher. What more do you really want? He's had a lot of success in getting people interested and informed about science who otherwise would not have been. Stop being so picky.
If you actually want to learn science as an adult, there are a ton of free lectures online from good schools, some directed specifically at older learners.
Great. There are a shit ton of people that aren't going to do that but they still need to understand some amount of science to be useful in a modern society. People vote and make policies about science and it's not good when they don't understand the science underlying the policies. Nye helps reach people that your online lectures will never touch. Yes a lot of what he talks about is superficial (and he knows that) but there is a need for that. He knows his stuff and does a good job.
I am really glad that you call him out like that. It is properly in the nature of a scientist to be critical but they should not be condescending or critical toward people but give critical analysis to a problem or a suggestion. In contract, it is in the nature of an engineer to be be optimistic. She/He doesn't ask if some can or can't be done but how it can be done.. He/she works around known problems and around the unknown.
Dreaming is ok if it doesn't go too far. Mars is impossible in the next century; at least. Impractical possibly forever.
The HARM is planning life around your grandchildren leaving the Earth you wrote off as disposable.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
No, the reason people don't live in Antarctica -- is because there are no jobs, nor the possibility of a job (even self employed) there.Look at the *North* Pole. There are resources. And there are loads of people living there. For research, for hunting, for fishing, and for mining/resources.
You think there are no resources in Antarctica of economic value? It's a freaking continent. The only reason they haven't been tapped yet is because it's a freaking miserably place and the cost of getting the resources is too EXPENSIVE to be worth the bother currently. So we have a gentleman's agreement between nation states for now but if the ice melts (as seems likely) or there is a shortage of a key resource (like oil) expect that agreement to fall apart rather quickly when the mining companies move in. The only real question is how cooperative the countries will be. If the US or Russia or China decides to mine Antarctica, nobody is really going to be able to stop them.
He's right in the next 20 years, probably the next 50 years. But in a hundred years? Two hundred? I'm not so sure.
A couple of hundred of years ago people would have said going to the moon was a crazy idea. Or flying faster than sound was nuts. But we can do it today.
Beyond the clever and convenient rhyme, Bill Nye is not a scientist. He just plays one on TV. His opinion on this sort of thing matters about as much as your average fat dad critiquing professional football players at the local pub.
This is just obvious.
"Nobody's gonna go settle on Mars to raise a family and have generations of Martians. It's not reasonable because it's so cold."
--Bill Nye, 2018
Mars is not the place to raise your kids/In fact, it's cold as Hell
--Elton John, 1972
A musician figured this out 46 years ago.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't walk and text.
Even so people will dream.
Perhaps the "Science Guy" should learn a little bit about Mars before talking about it.
He's the CEO of The Planetary Society which is concerned with among other things this very topic. I'm certain he's better informed about the topic than you are.
I'm not actually that much of a Mars advocate, and think the simplicity of using water there is overplayed (people talk about it like it's some sort of pure snow that you just pick up and melt, but it's (mostly) a rock-hard toxic brine mixed with sand and clay) - but come on, if you're going to talk about something, learn the basics.
Who is arguing it is simple? The argument is that it is necessary and possible if you want a manned Mars mission. Shipping water from Earth is simply unrealistic in any sort of large scale. There are a host of very serious technical problems in gathering and utilizing any resource on Mars and water is no exception.
Because they don't have to. If a bunch of zealots try to colonize Mars, they probably won't have the choice to turn back.
Much of his statements are about it being very unpleasant. However, unpleasantness doesn't kill. Those who grow up with unpleasantness will be used to it; it's all they will know. Eskimos didn't stop being eskimos because the weather sucked.
I agree that our "space camping" technology will have to improve some before it's viable, but it may not take a revolution in technology, mostly just experience and trial and error. That's how Eskimos learned to live in dire places.
Table-ized A.I.
https://medium.com/christian-intellectual/why-bill-nye-is-not-a-scientist-and-why-it-matters-20b6e3fc3fee
He's a farce.
The immutable question is:
If we don't colonize Mars, the moon, space, or somewhere else other than this rock then what happens to our species when (insert catastrophic event here) hits and we have no backup plan?
We are an apex species, and evolution is not kind to apex species. There is literally an entire planet full of creatures evolving to kill us. It doesn't have to be that either. A giant meteor, nuclear despot, major tectonic event, biological weapon, or an as-yet unknown thing could pound off a big chunk of the population and we are back in the stone age finishing each other off with rocks and sticks.
If not Mars, where?
People already live in bubbles, and we're moving more and more in that direction.
Everything delivered via the internet, No need to leave the home, telecommuting, virtual reality environments...
Hell, I've got a fat neighbor who rarely goes out unless he has to. He's fit in fine in a cube on Mars.
This is the same guy who promotes SJW gender woo and who denies that gender has anything to do with chromosomes.
Bill Nye isn't a real scientist. He's a showman and a charlatan. Nobody should use him as an authority on any matter. Shame on Slashdot for giving this asshole oxygen.
"It's not reasonable because it's so cold. And there is hardly any water. There's absolutely no food, and the big thing, I just remind these guys, there's nothing to breathe."
This sounds like a job for space botanists. Mars will fear their botany poweres.
But he's not wrong. Mars is a terrible terraforming target. not the least of which is the lack of mass/gravity to you know, keep an atmosphere on the planet. granted it would out-gas at a rapid geologic scale so a few hundred years might be fine but it would require constant upkeep. just not a practical target.
To visualize the colonization of Mars requires some imagination - the ability to think beyond current approaches.
I recall circa 1998 telling someone that eventually paper books would be mostly replaced by electronic sources, and the response was, "That will never happen - people won't want to read a book on a computer screen".
The person who said that was not able to imagine beyond the bulky and low resolution CRTs of the day.
To imagine the colonization of Mars, one needs to consider that (1) getting there and back might get a-lot easier and quicker, given that fusion propulsion is actively under development, (2) people who live there for years, on assignment, might well want to have their families with them, and (3) Mars is a potential base for mining asteroids, which is a very real prospect (http://www.asterank.com/).
Not everyone is able to imagine these things. Regarding Bill Nye, just because he likes science does not mean that he is someone with imagination - in fact, my impression of his is that he is something of a luddite.
Thank you Bill Nye for being a real scientist and refusing to be merely a pathetic shill for the scientific-industrial complex as so many scientists today are.
E Proelio Veritas.
Living on Mars is not the best option. Giant rotating orbital space colonies are probably the better way to go. They can be built to imitate earth with rivers, lakes and forests. And with the spin they will offer 1 gee gravity.
I do not think we would ever terraform Mars, but that is the real question, not whether or not we could, we can do anything if we put the resources behind it, but rather if we would.
Would men decide to live constantly in domes beneath the surface of the planet (shielding from radiation requires burying habitats)? Probably, if they had a good enough reason to, but what is that reason?
I see no compelling reason to so do today or in the near future, other than to use that experience to develop the expertise needed for generation ships to other stars... but that is another discussion. And for that expertise, the Moon works just as well as Mars.
As yet we have no desire to build such generation ships, nor any star to go to that would support the population (with any level of certainty), so no need is extant to push us to develop the desired expertise.
"Governments have been dominated by the corporate entities and citizens have ceased to matter in public policy" true in
Neil Degrasse Tyson: We'll Never Get to Mars
Unless we find diamonds or oil.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
He couldn't hack it at Boeing or as a comedian. Why should anyone care what a BS mechanical engineer has to say?
The tech to get us to Mars and help us survive there is nearly available. Weather we pull our will to do so is another issue.
However, to live and 'thrive' on Mars independently from mother Earth is another matter all together.
Surviving on Mars does not look like a better choice than to survive on whatever is left on poisoned Earth.
4wdloop
I agree with him, but only to a very limited point. Terra-forming planets is extremely resource intensive, and probably a long term goal at best. Orbital habitats (Mars, Earth, Asteroid Belt, Jupiter, etc) are the short term way to go for colonization. They have much easier access to resources and can be customized to suit our needs (gravity, size, shielding, etc) much better. Getting out of a gravity well is the most troublesome thing to do with our current technology, orbital habitats have no real gravity well to deal with. Planetary colonies should probably be reserved for research/mining outposts.
Nye is entitled to his opinions and ranting. However, the fact that mainstream media continues to lend credence to these views only underscores how much our respect for - nevermind understanding of - science has atrophied. Nye was a mechanical engineer who decided to try his hand at comedy. He became a kids show persona. If wearing a lab coat makes him some sort of expert, then maybe next week we can have the cast of Chicago Med lecturing us about cancer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
And those of us from Seattle know a lot about figuring out people are high.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Look, you get one Earth.
You don't get a do-over.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
At our current level of technology? No, we're not going to 'terraform' anything.
Is he right about how we can't even take care of this planet? Yes, 100%. We haven't learned, as a species, to get our shit together and stop shitting up the Earth. Every year that passes that we fail in that puts another nail in humanitys' coffin, too. Small chance right now we'll pull it out of the fire.
Live on Mars? Maybe. Personally I think we need a permanent colony on the Moon, as a test-bed if nothing else, to work out the details. If things start going terribly wrong on the Moon, at least people have a shot at evacuating back to Earth instead of just dying. Mars is for all intents and purposes a one-way trip. And yes, it wouldn't be pleasant on Mars, no more so than on the Moon, and it would be anyones' best guess whether having children in either place would be a good idea or not.
it is science fiction. you know what was science fiction in 1902? the airplane.
a lot of good progress in science starts off as science fiction and becomes a reality.
also it's a dead rock essentially. we don't have to "take care" if it. if we were to make it anywhere near able to sustaining life, we'd be doing a great thing.
even just using it for resources that we don't have to pull from earth, could be a great thing.
How can anyone take this idiotic bozo seriously? Has anyone watched his show "Bill Nye Saves the Word?" It's just so sad because he was given a fantastic opportunity to get an important message out there and instead he delivered a horrible comedy hour for retarded children that makes Amy Schumer look like cerebral and thought-provoking content.
Bill Nye needs to shut his ignorant face, disappear from the public view and let actual intelligent human beings have a discussion. And if Bill Nye disagrees with me, it's because he's wrong, the ignorant dip-shit.
"Nobody goes to Antarctica to raise a family. You don't go there and build a park, there's just no such thing. "
Because there is no reason to. Since it's just a few days to travel back home, why would you try to setup a permanent community? The difference with Mars is that travel back and forth is so long and costly, you would HAVE to setup a permanent colony if you wanted to do any long term exploration of Mars.
Bill Nye should be publicly vilified for his horrific "sex junk" video and the promotion of "gender" nonsense.
Caitlyn Jenner is a man in a dress, and girls will never grow up to become men.
Bamb, how u like that now
Why does anyone treat a comedian who had a moderately successful child's TV show like an authority on anything related to science? Every scientific achievement was, at one point, science fiction.. if not "magic".
I'm not about to start taking advice from a EE grad that pretends to be a "scientist" on a kids tv show.
For humans to permanently live anywhere there needs to be a good reason to do so. The problem with Mars is there doesn't seem to be anything super valuable to justify landing there. Not to mention landings on Mars is extremely difficult. It's got just enough atmosphere to make it super dangerous and just not enough to slow you down properly. The scenery is pretty close to a red desert. Not super exciting if you've been there a while. I picture humanity is space stations colonies long before we decide to permanently live on Mars.
I've been saying this for years. It's fun to dream about, and it's fun to talk about, and while exploring the surface of Mars will probably happen at some point, there will never ever be permanent human habitation of Mars.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
....why nobody talks about the fact Mars gravity is something along the lines of 0.37ish that of Earth's? Doesn’t such low gravity have disastrous health effects on any living organism from Earth? Moreover, this is something we will not be able to change about Mars.
Or how the soil is contaminated with perchlorates, which is toxic to us. All of it....
Or how the lack of magnetic field will make it impossible to actually keep an atmosphere even if somehow we manage to terraform Mars in the first place.
The cold, IMHO, is the easiest problem to deal with. In fact we have technology to deal with cold weather since the dawn of human civilization. The reason nobody lives in Antarctica is because it makes absolutely 0 financial sense to do so, rather than any kind of technological barriers. It's permanently covered by kilometre(s) thick ice sheet, making access to local resources extremely expensive & impractical. In addition, no colony can survive for long with a negative balance sheet (meaning if the costs of keeping a human alive > the wealth he can extract from said colony over the course of a human lifetime, it dies out). Unless the mother nation is willing to keep the colony artificially afloat while it slowly bankrupts itself.
Bill is a Mechanical Engineer, yet he seems to think he knows everything. So Bill thinks that humans can only cause climate change on Earth not not on Mars. What a hypocrite! He's has his political agenda -- he's not a scientist -- he's an ideologue. The bow tie doesn't make him smart.
The factors that prevent terraforming are cost & time. If the EM-Drive had really worked, it would have been possible to construct a fleet of low cost drones to zip around the solar system, find usable comets & asteroids, and dump them on terraforming targets. If some other 'impossible' engine one day works, that moves the cost down to an obtainable level. Time is harder - it would still be the work of multiple generations.
P.S. I still think Venus is a better terraforming target than Mars. It's closer and warmer and the same size as Earth. Cool it off, thin out the atmosphere, screen off some cosmic rays and ZANG! Earth-II, baby.
Bill Nye literally would beat the boring faggot shit out of your bitch mouth, instantly.
What about Columb? What he thougt when he sail west? Did he plan to explore America? No! We will have exactly the same situation exploring the Mars. We don't plan what to do there. Just exploring. We will set our goals later and we will change them mames.
That guy is a worst kind of self-aggrandizing blowhard.
"People disagree with me on this, and the reason they disagree is because they're wrong,"
Sickening.
It's like something Sheldon Cooper would say on TBBT. Only there we all KNOW it's sarcasm. Nye's actually serious!
On Earth we can handle the occasional nutcase who decides to shoot up a school or drive a car through a crowd.
I would never want to live with a few thousand other people if my life depended on an intact dome. If just one person had access to something that could damage the dome it would be too risky for me. Mars has to have a breathable atmosphere before I'm going!
Except Boston apparently.
I'd be more worried about how a long-term settlement on Mars could possibly survive in low-gravity (already proven to have adverse affects on grown adults not to mention what it would do to child development) and deal with the constant cosmic ray bombardment.
Yes, but we can grow potatoes using the soil and poop.
Why a dome? Perfectly good lava tubes. And unless you're up for 200 mile walks every day, no reason to go outside.
Lack of water? We know there's plenty underground.
Lack of food/air? Biosphere 2, without the mistakes, could supply both.
I respect the guy but these are sixth former mistakes. I never accept second best, and that goes double for those I respect. Those I don't respect, I expect to screw up. Them screwing up is why I don't respect them.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
My point wasn't to invent the perfect analogy, but to show how people could live a little bit too much in the now. Circumstances and technology change. The assumptions you are using as the baseline for your argument (expensive to throw people at Mars, no riches to be had) could change very quickly with either improvements in technology or scientific discovery.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
He's not even a scientist...he's an entertainer...
* In 1977, Nye received a Bachelor of Science in mechanical engineering from Cornell University (Sibley School of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering)
* In May 2011, Willamette University award him an honorary doctor of science degree.
* In May 2013, Lehigh University awarded him an honorary doctor of pedagogy degree.
* In May 2015, Rutgers University awarded him an honorary doctor of science degree.
* In Mayo 2015, Simon Fraser University award him an honorary doctorate.
Bill Nye is qualified to comment on science and educate a lay person on basic science. His 9 years working in aerospace (Boeing 1977-1986) is qualification enough to understand and apply science to the real world.
A large set of insolation mirrors, that reflect solar energy onto the planet, might help with the temperature. They might also trigger mars-quakes. They wouldn't help with the air pressure, oxygen content, or toxic chemicals in the soil. Most of the benefits of going to Mars would be better found in the asteroids. Anything mined out there wouldn't have to be raised out of Mars's gravity well.
Set up housekeeping on Mars or Chicago? Nice warm and safe tunnel vs taken out by a gangsta. Hmm, tough one.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I'm really interested in the dynamics of a new colony, any advice on where to start reading? Presumably all applicants would be screened extensively but what mix would you choose? Aside from book-related stabbings, scientists in remote areas seem to do well... I guess there is actually very little use for overly practical people though, who would likely be bored shitless for 90% of the time.
Is he unaware that a flight in and out of Antarctica is significantly easier to arrange than a trip to/from Mars? Of course people work there without living there full time, because coming and going seasonally is an option.
When is this guy going to stop embarrassing himself?
we might turn Earth into Mars!?
Mars could easily become a "safe" place for the ultra rich of earth. Think of the incredible cost of mega yachts, private islands, private estates. The best part of making your escape from poor people on another planet is that it will much harder for them to revolt in your front yard.
Wouldn't changing the momentum of the moon have bad effects on earth, like messing with the tides?
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Would you rather live in a bubble on Mars or in the path of a wildfire in California?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
This was discussed regarding the terraforming of earth by early microbial life (which by the way is how we would terraform mars if we were going to. No huge earth movers or 'terraform factories' like in the books/movies, simply bootstrapping the requisite bacterial life to generate huge quantities of greenhouse gasses, avoid hydrogen gas production by ensuring h2o isn't made into h2, but instead ch4 or carbon stripped from CO2, the latter of which should be easy given the amount of dry ice claimed at Mar's poles.
If we did this, assuming the math for gravitational retention of atmosphere worked out, then we might be able to have mars terraformed in a few thousand years, maybe sooner if the bacterial could be grown in reactors on the surface of mars/the moon/the earth (depends on lift costs, but the infrastructure to produce the bioreactors needed are already here.)
Having said all that, it is just as likely we could GMO bacteria to terraform Venus' much thicker atmosphere in less time than it would take to terraform mars, and unlike Mars Venus has gravity much closer to Earth's while also having an atmosphere thick enough to protect us for long term survival on the planetary surface or upper atmosphere. Given that Venus makes a much more viable colonization target if we can get probes there to discover if there is existing and decidely alien life (microbial or otherwise) we should try to preserve before irrepairably contaminating it with our colonizing bacteria. Assuming there isn't, the thick atmosphere of Venus would lend itself well to aerosol based bacterial colonization of planet intended to adjust the planetary atmosphere to something more habitable to humans.
But hey, what do I know, I don't have a fancy degree or upper division math skills, I just have studied enough practical knowledge to know who to ask to prove my ideas feasible or not. It's too bad more people can't be bothered to do that.
The mad vision to colonize other planets is entirely consistent with the modern technology-obsessed world-view. Which is to say, it's completely divorced from fact and reality. Human life, both physical and psychological is a product of millions of years of evolution of billions of multifaceted complex bio-systems interacting and reacting with and to one another in subtle and complex ways. Human life and happiness is dependent on that unique environment to thrive, because it too is a product of all this time-old evolution.
In order for humans to have anything close to resembling a quality life on another planet, that other planet would have to become earth. So, these planet colonizer people want to create other earths... Let that sink in in its insanity. If that doesn't, consider this: the technological and industrial activity required to do this, even if it were possible, would devastate earth as it is. Just remember the massive devastation that the earth has already had to endure to facilitate the mad technological visions of industrialists and scientists of the past and present.
The book "Anti-Tech Revolution" (2016) should be required reading. As should be "Technological Slavery" (2010).
Ahh Bill, True but not pertinent.
We not going to Mars to find a new home. We're going so we can learn how to go. We need to learn how to travel and live in hostile environments.
Mars isn't "the new world" like North America was to Europe. Mars is more like Greenland... Hostile but perhaps livable and the trip is short enough to succeed but long enough to compel advances in viking ships and navigation.
We have to go to the stars sooner or later or we'll all die when the sun becomes a red giant. Plus we may find that we need to travel before then.... after all bad things do happen. We may find ways to terraform Mars but it's a 1,000 year project (optimistically)
And since it's going to take us a little while to figure this stuff out we need to start now.
Did he really say "gonna". I'm willing to bet he said "going to". He's not illiterate.
Okay.. move Mercury into a lunar orbit around Venus for a while to skim off the excess atmosphere, the move it out of the way after it's done it's job. Not like Mercury is good for much else anyway.
There are strategies for terraforming today which are left unexplored because of planetary NIMBY-ism. Having a planet we don't care about could advance the science greatly. In fact, I'd say that's just the type of high concept science we may need to address climate change on Earth.
... it is a stupid idea, but so was the entire space race. We might find value in it later. Just like we did with the space race.
Hey Bill,
My cousin lives in Fairbanks, Alaska. They've had temps at -40 below.
Alaska has valuable oil resources which have generated a market for its extraction, and thus economics has motivated humans to live in such a harsh habitat. Trust me, if a resource or economically valuable aspect was discovered regarding Mars, humans would build habitats upon it.
Obviously no one expects it to become much of a colony overnight. There are some compelling reasons Mars travel is worth consideration, though:
1. We need to get started on such exploration at some point. Earth is becoming overpopulated as the years pass, and alternatives must be explored in the long-term.
2. Maybe it will start as a small colony, but who knows - it might be a lifestyle that some opt into. Developing Mars further into underground tunnels, creating a place to live for some that might grow as time passes. It'll take forever, but nothing wrong with giving it a shot.
3. If they start planting trees and try to build the seeds of ecosystems, the chief fucking point is that we might be able to get Mars started on a pathway toward being a home for future evolutionary pathways. This is on the millions-of-years time scale, and the nasty radiation issue might be a tough one, but life often finds a way.
Yeah, I'm gonna take my cues on what's possible on Mars from a wannabe Mr. Wizard, with nothing but a BS in Mechanical Engineering. How about we put a human or two on the planet's surface, before we start talking about what can and can' be done. I mean come on, we're relying on data from explorer spacecraft here. Not actual people with actual shovels and hands-on experience.
Yep.
Traveling to a planet that's already Earth-like (gravity, atmospheric makeup, radiation shielding) isn't feasible.
Turning a nearby planet into one that's Earth-like is probably even less feasible.
Building your own habitat to your exact requirements? A far saner approach.
"The only reason it's [Antarctica's] not colonized is that it's an international research park by treaty."
Really? You can't think of another reason? Not one other reason? I'll give you a minute...
Has Trump said something factual? I must have missed that!
On a more serious note, neither Trump nor his supporters value facts. Now that, is factual.
Bill Nye forgets that a Communist country like China will be more than willing to build a forced labor camp on Mars to exploit anything that can be mined and brought back to Earth in abundance. Force families to move there and have kids who will go straight to work in factories that build mining equipment on-site.
He just plays on TV, if even that.