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EU To Ban Plastic Plates, Cups, and Cutlery by 2021; Will Require Plastic Bottles Be Made of 25% Recycled Content By 2025 (fastcompany.com)
The European Union has decided to ban plastic consumer items including plates, cutlery and straws as of 2021 to help clean up oceans. The prohibition on single-use plastics approved by the European Parliament this week in Strasbourg, France, also applies to beverage cups, food containers and cotton bud sticks. A report adds: The new legislation also states that by 2025, plastic bottles should be made of 25 percent recycled content. The new legislation also sets an admirable target of recycling 90 percent of plastic bottles by 2029 -- as well as a goal of making them out of 30 percent recycled material by 2030. Parliament originally rolled out its plan at the end of 2018 and have now made good on the ambition directive.
I'm old enough to remember that this move to plastic was driven by "good intentions" back in the 70s because all the products were destroying the trees because of the demand on paper, pulp and wood products. Plastic after all was RECYCLABLE... except nobody bothered and now that China won't do the recycling the governments don't care to spend the money on infrastructure when they can use it to pay off their political cronies at inflated rates.
This emotionalist and irrational (yes, irrational) response to a problem could easily be handled by better pollution monitoring, regulation and better recycling. But that would require a government that actually did its job and not just run to ban things because it makes them feel better to assuage a 12 year old's shoddy science fair paper.
airport restaurants now? Cool.
Well at least it makes a little more sense than banning just plastic straws like California? Not being able to get a plastic straw when drinking out of a plastic cup with a plastic lid is just silly. Especially when waxed paper cups work as a much better alternative to plastic than the stupid flimsy paper straws we're supposed to use instead.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Here at Microsoft, we have BioWare. Apparently it's not just the name of a game, it's all the name of biodegradable "plastic" utensils, which we're told to dispose of in the compost bin. Other places are using a corn-derived plastic substitute that is biodegradable.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
And yet they're happier than we are... funny about that! (Finland is the happiest country in the world.)
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I think the majority of plastic waste in the ocean is dumped off cruise ships and other boats... so if you want to ban something, maybe ban recreational boating?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I don't understand... how do you get your plastic to play Fortnite?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Have you ever actually seen a recycling bin that was sorted correctly? I haven't.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Can anyone tell me why these things aren't being mass produced with bamboo? There's so much we could make out of bamboo and it grows so readily in so many places, yet it's so underutilized.
This does matter. You do not.
EU list:
1) Ruin Internet - Check
2) Ruin Driving - Check
3) Ruin Dining - Check
4) Convert to Islamic state - Check
Oh wait, they ended daylight savings!
I have, but that was in EU.
Because the Baltic is full of garbage.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
It's called churn. Wait, the cycle will come around again in a generation or so.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I agree in principle that we should not needlessly waste oil or produce trash. But an outright ban has a habit of giving you unforeseen consequences in corner cases. We have market-based regulations available that produce the desired outcome at a lower cost. Place a Pigouvian Tax on manufacturing these items. Bonus: you can marginally lower some other tax or decrease deficits.
https://www.ufz.de/export/data...
So this is going to have how much of an effect ? If you want to spend money to fix a problem fine but try and put it to use where it will actually do some good.
Relative to cargo ships (emission equivalent of 50,000,000 cars) and maritime waste due to environmental policies of certain leading export countries, this is relatively unimportant.
Instead, perhaps we could focus on reducing our practice of shipping raw materials via cargo ships to countries without environmental regulations or labor laws. Currently, these countries manufacture many of our goods at a much lower cost - by dumping waste into the ocean, employing children, and using components that are known by the state of California to cause cancer.
Then they burn even more oil to ship the finished product back to our country.
Here's an extremely understated introduction to the problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... (all the statistics cited are from the International Maritime Organization, and are substantially lower than what is now (12 years ago) known: https://www.theguardian.com/en... )
No, he covered it quite nicely with the observation it was about connected cronies.
That is the guiding factor behind economy-crushing corruption for over half the world's population. They just have to hide it better in the west.
Here's what will burst your noodle, as the Oracle might say. "If the regulation is mildly useful, so much the better."
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
You can still make "plastic" plates cups and cutlery that are derived from:
seaweed (in fact the basic science for this has been known for a decade) - this composts naturally, and is usually coated with a thin film that is not water soluble, but will eventually biodegrade if exposed to sunlight (will take longer if kept in landfills)
vegetable fibers (we've used these in entire countries, and at most major universities - anyplace that you see the compost bin says "university plates, utensils and food containers are compostable") - made in large scale, these are fairly close to the costs of plastic.
The early ones from around the 1990s melted too fast, the 2000s were a bit better, but the 2020 version is fairly good - the only exception is if you leave it in your hot (not warm, hot) drink for more than an hour. Why are you taking up a seat for that long? Use a biodegradable ceramic or metal or glass container if you're taking that long, slacker!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Seriously. Want to fix plastic in the oceans? Simply enforce litter laws, and actually monitor that that garbage hauler the city pays doesn't simply dump the trash as sea.
But those measures would cost the government money. Why do that when you can instead cost your subjects freedom?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The shipping is not the issue. Large ships are astonishingly efficient per ton shipped. The rest of your rant makes sense though.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I have, but that was in EU.
That is because they have a Garbage-Gestapo going around checking everyone's bins, and issuing fines.
This, of course, raises the cost of already uneconomical recycling even more.
It is better to just not use so much plastic crap in the first place.
I'm Canadian, we are the worst polluters in the world. 23 tons per person of green house gas*. Trump's America is only 19 tons. My plastic plates and utensils waste might not even be an entire kg in a year. Also in most of the western world we don't use our rivers as garbage dumps. The great plastic patch in the pacific isn't because people are using plastic bags it's because people are just dumping shit in their rivers. So seriously what fucking problem are these greens trying to solve? You want to solve global warming, get Canadian's to live in cities that are walkable. A person in London, England will with the same income as me will produce nearly 1/3rd the green house gas as me because they don't drive everywhere and their house shares a few walls with their neighbours.
*the Canadian government has elected not to count environmental sources in our green house gas emissions. Due to mind mindbogglingly stupid management of our forests where we planted a single species of inbred trees on clear cut land. We now have large areas of dead and rotting trees that are causing our forest to be net contributors to green house gas emissions.
As someone who owns a managed forest, I must point out that a) wood is a renewable resource and b) growing saplings fix a lot more CO2 from the atmosphere than mature trees do. So please, all the stuff you want to make out of wood and paper products - please do!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Instead, perhaps we could focus on reducing our practice of shipping raw materials via cargo ships
Why "instead"? Why not do both? The two actions would be independent, and in no way whatsoever are they alternatives.
And use the spoons to dig ditches. That'll create the hell of of some jobs.
This will last about two years and then the rebellion will occur as people will be fed up with the shit that they have to put up with. No plastic. What are you going to use glass? Aluminum? Paper and kill more trees?
This is the dumbest generation in the history of humanity. We are devolving by listening to the children who with their 25 years of life or 300 months or living believe that they are smarted when in fact they are the most ignorant. If you have to search the Internet you simply don't know shit. Yet, this generation feels that searching the Internet is an indication of being smart.
I have,, I have three in my yard, plus the "trash" bin.
Glass containers 2 corners away. On top of that paper collections once a month roughly.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I want my stuff made of new virgin plastic.
There are several bioplastics made from starch or cellulose that are good substitutes for petro-plastics in many applications. The biggest drawback is cost. We need more R&D to bring the price down.
Some of the starch-based plastics are edible. Where I work we bought a big box of bioplastic packing peanuts. We soon had an infestation of mice in our warehouse. They were munching down on the peanuts, and had chewed through the cardboard boxes they came in. That was over a year ago, and the warehouse still smells like mouse poop.
emission equivalent of 50,000,000 cars
In sulfur, dust/soot, yes. CO2, nope!
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Here they banned plastic bags, except "reusable" ones that cost 10 cents each. But since this is a wealthy area, only about 1 in 10 bother with the inconvenience of bringing your own bags (and those who do invariably use their own cloth bags, not the reusable plastic ones*), so now the garbage and streets contain almost the same number of bags, and the bags are 3-5x thicker. Doesn't seem to be much benefit, especially since the people already inclined to go out of their way to recycle could already return most of them to the dedicated plastic bag collection bin at both our big supermarkets, since recycling is practical when you have an uncontaminated stream of all the same type of plastic bag.
* - Our big supermarket here is Shoprite, who used to offer a small discount if you brought your own bags. Then they eliminated the discount, and that virtually eliminated the practice. Now that you can avoid the same amount in extra charges, it's mostly back to its previous level, but for the 90% that don't bring their own, the bags are 3-5x thicker, and like I was saying, those don't actually get reused. Just reinstating the discount would have been better for the environment, to the extent this matters anyway.
Drink the mountain dew, eat the bottle!
Shades of Willy Wonka!
Have you ever actually seen a recycling bin that was sorted correctly? I haven't.
I see you've never been to Japan.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
In sulfur, dust/soot, yes. CO2, nope!
... and the sulfur, dust, and soot don't matter, because they quickly settle onto the surface of the ocean. The ocean already contains trillions of tons of sulfur. The amount added by cargo ships is negligible, and not harmful anyway. These pollutants are only harmful if you inhale them, or if they settle on leaves or exposed metal. Terrestrial sources are a problem, oceanic sources are not.
Little known fact: not all tree knots are assholes!
#DeleteFacebook
Want to fix plastic in the oceans? Simply enforce litter laws
Good luck. Nearly all the plastic in the Pacific come from Asian countries that have no cultural tradition of caring about things like litter. More than half of the plastic comes from a single country: China. And most of that enters the sea from a single river. That is why schemes to clean up the ocean are so misguided. It would make much more sense to just clean up the Changjiang (Yangtze) River.
Nothing better than a beer in a paper cup!
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
These measures do a grand total of about zero to plastic waste in oceans. About 90% of it comes from major Asian and African rivers. Most of the rest is from the various coastal nations on the same continents. Which in turn overwhelmingly come in large part from single use packaging of single portion perishables which don't even exist in wealthier countries. Packaging which notably in turn is responsible for massive reduction of human death and suffering from various poisonings due to perishables actually perishing due to bad packaging, or portions being bigger than single portion which means perishing due to lack of refrigeration.
Essentially all plastic in EU is already either recycled or burned. What little ends up in waterways is usually the stuff that people from non-European cultures such as tourists just discard as they are used to. And numbers we're talking about are utterly irrelevant. This is not US with its "dirty plastics" issues, most EU states already recycle "clean" plastic and burn the "dirty" one. Those that don't will have to implement it shortly, as China no longer accepts dirty plastics as "recyclable".
This is nothing but virtue signalling by politicians aimed at wealthy urbanites that will have no meaningful impact on plastic garbage problem in oceans, but will severely inconvenience a lot of poor people in EU, who actually rely on cheap packaging and cutlery to stay cheap, as they cannot afford more expensive packaging without taking a meaningful hit to their already low quality of life.
THis will without doubt, fuolly and certainly cure thed problem. Plastics will disappear from th eoceans overnight, never to plague thte world again.....
Oh...hold on..... No it won't. Because the EU isn't the problem, and the USA isn't the problem.
This won't remotely put a dent in the problem. Because the countries that are the problem don't give a damn other than being really happy that other countries are being blamed for what they are doing.
Virtue signalling that accomplishes nothing. Billy said it best: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
And use the spoons to dig ditches. That'll create the hell of of some jobs.
That is just silly. Metal spoons would work far better than plastic for digging ditches.
Complete fabrication. It's well documented that approximately 90% of garbage is sourced from major Asian and African rivers.
Since we're talking about EU policy, here's a citation from German national broadcaster on the topic:
https://www.dw.com/en/almost-a...
Most plastic is not truly recycled (i.e. turned into the same material that it was), it is downcycled (i.e. turned into lower-grade plastic). Downcycled plastic extends the life of the plastic and is a lot better than just sticking it in landfill / oceans, but it still eventually ends up there. Truly recycling plastic requires a lot of energy (more than creating new plastic from oil, even from plant oil) and so is difficult to make an economic case for.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I don't know about the EU, as I don't live there, but here in the USA I see plenty of Joe Blow pieces of shit littering on a regular basis. The mayor of my city even ran on a campaign a few years back of enforcing litter laws and whatnot. When I tried to call and report littering that I had seen I got laughed off the phone line. Each offense is supposed to be a $500 fine, which you'd think the municipal government would be tripping over themselves to collect, but nope. Around here it definitely isn't an immigrant problem, it's a jackass problem.
Cutting brownies is impossible without plastic knives.
Yep, I love this idea. Plastic has creeped into everything. My mom recently told me when she was a kid, there were few fast food places, but you could stop by certain places with delis. The delis would give you a glass to go plate... I take it you'd recycle the glass later.
Plastic straws/knives/plates/etc. make up a tiny portion of plastic waste. Europe (and the US) make up a tiny portion of ocean plastic waste. Almost all is from Asia and Africa.
So the net change to this is near zero. This is all virtue signaling and will have no real change to pollution.
Meanwhile, it will inconvenience hundreds of millions of people.
Absolute bovine excrement.
Well, fair point, I was talking about how western plastic gets into the water. As you point out, that's a tiny part of the problem to begin with.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Obligatory Yes Minister - https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
They banned plastic stuff in my part of California, and I have to tell you, nothing has changed except less wasted plastic. When you go to a restaurant or fast food, instead of dropping a straw in front of you that you ignore and ends up in the trash, you have to actually say, "I'll take a straw, please" (and the please is only required if you happened to have been raised right, which leaves out Trump voters, but to be honest, we leave out Trump voters generally here in California). It's absolutely no big deal and life goes on. So don't be such goddamn drama queens about it. You would think not automatically getting a straw is like being put in chains and forced to do manual labor for the collective. You'll live, you fat bastards, and you shouldn't be shoving that fast food down your neck anyway. Go home and cook yourself some vegetables.
Anyway, the biodegradable paper straws are far superior for snorting coke. Less waste all around.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Then...
Frexit
Grexit
Itexit
Spexit
etc...
Use glass.
It can be recycled infinitely, and if you want you can reuse the bottles and plates.
All better now, AC? Got it off your chest? I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I am certainly not desperate enough to need to be believed to give up my anonymity - especially to the likes of you. You don't have to believe me. Your lack of belief doesn't make what I said any less true.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
This will last about two years and then the rebellion will occur as people will be fed up with the shit that they have to put up with.
Oh, you delicate little AC snowflake you. Heaven forbid you have to use paper or glass or aluminum.
I don't respond to AC's.
Meanwhile, it will inconvenience hundreds of millions of people.
Well, that's certainly the most important thing, isn't it? "Convenience". You must be American. I've only heard Americans spouting, "I don't want to help save our environment because it will inconvenience me." Jesus Christ, that's a level of selfishness that you must be proud of.
I don't respond to AC's.
Where will you get red Solo cups? Perhaps you can import them...
Why not pay unemployed people minimum wage to sort though your perceived social problem while at the same time fixing another ignored social problem?
And most of that enters the sea from a single river.
*sigh*. Another person who read the headline rather than the report. I hate to break it to you but no where near that ... little ... plastic enters the oceans through rivers. Now do yourself a favour, find the news article with the headline you looked up and actually read the report behind it. Look at the conclusions, then look at the study (notice how it was a study of only plastic that goes into rivers), and then look at the references to find a link to how much plastic actually goes in the ocean through rivers.
All the while remember, Indians shit on the street, then go outside and shit in your own street smug in the reality that it's India's fault.
It's well documented that approximately 90% of garbage is sourced from major Asian and African rivers.
It's well documented in the headlines of news articles which didn't actually read the study. No the reality is that the amount of garbage entering the oceans through rivers is tiny. The amount of plastic waste is between 5-15% depending on the study.
And when you go back to your news article that shows that 90% of plastic in the oceans goes through a couple of major rivers read carefully and you'll notice the quote is that 90% of garbage in the ocean *that comes from rivers* does so through only a couple of rivers in Asia and Africa.
Journal articles, not news headlines. The former educate, the latter just make people stupid.
Why focus on CO2? The main issue here is plastic pollution.
Cargo ships create very little plastic pollution compared to disposable drinking straws.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
As someone who owns a managed forest,
Do you really?
I must point out that a) wood is a renewable resource
So what are you doing to maintain the soil?
and b) growing saplings fix a lot more CO2 from the atmosphere than mature trees do.
What? No, it most certainly does not. Old trees store carbon more rapidly than young trees. (And while we're here, they don't absorb more CO2 as atmospheric CO2 concentration rises, either.
I don't think you're managing a goddamned thing. You certainly don't know what you're talking about.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yeah but now that the EU has done that, the US will be all "COMMUNISM!" and push back by using even more plastic shit.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
Interesting links.
Increased carbon dioxide levels do increase plant growth for some plants grown in greenhouses. CHP generators are used for hot water and carbon dioxide production for heating and enhanced plant growth and the Power gets sold to the grid. The CHP runs during daylight hours, running on natural gas.
On the positive side at least some chp's are used to help enable a greater percentage of Wind Energy to the grid, they can be started and stopped within a few minutes. Supply and Demand for the grid is a fairly delicate balance with all generators synced to each other.
There is also a positive in that these locally sourced crops reduce imports and miles travelled to reach the consumer. On the downside often these crops are sealed in plastic sometimes in a protective atmosphere (which might be high in co2) limited oxygen helps slow decay giving a longer shelf life. Maybe the parts of the plant we don't eat might be used to create plant based plastics, although its possible they are used to feed livestock...
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
You don't need wood, you need a biodegradable fibre source and a binder. The most logical fibre, should be obvious to everyone, hemp, low water use and easy to grow and it only takes one season to produce the crop. You plant trees for timber and not for fibre due to slow growth, it requires a premium price, that timber but not fibre can provide.
So hemp based product, bound with a biodegradable binder, that preserves, protects and binds the fibre but breaks down under UV light. Slow to break down in the dark but breaks down quickly in sunlight and of course it should float. It should also be digestible by most creatures, break down in their stomach, slowly admittedly to be of use but, over a day, definitely break down.
Sold in light blocking cardboard cartons, they do not need to be as durable as the items themselves. Hemp fibre still preferable to wood pulp. If you can grow the tree, grow a tree that produces select grade high worth timber, not cheap fibre, hemp is far and away more efficient and will use less water.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Ah yes, the virtue signalling path. "If we are good, virtuous, self-flagellating idiots acting against their interests to purportedly benefit others, others will respect us and act like us".
In reality, Chinese now have a derogatory word for people who act and think like this, which literally translates to "white leftie". Chinese do not care at all about pollution that isn't immediately impactful. That's why it's been such a challenge to get them to commit to anything at all on CO2. That's not the pollution Chinese care about at all, just like plastic pollution isn't something Chinese care about at all.
All they care about is the immediate problems, like particulates in the air in major cities, which cause easily observable and directly linked health problems in a way that even an average Chinese, who thinks Western medicine is for weird freaks and rich socialites, can understand. The rest is handled like pretty much everything in China. Demonstrative facade to keep face, absolute irrelevance underneath.
Here's a good video by a couple of Western expats living in major cities in China on the topic if you are still unconvinced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I will continue to insist that me fucking you in the ass over your science denial in the original talk was a strictly one night stand, and no matter how desperate your stalking becomes, I will not be calling you back.
That because related numbers in US while significantly worse than in most of EU, are also quite irrelevant, especially because if the trash annoys you, it's probably not in the waterways but on the streets. Which in turn means it's going to get cleaned off the streets and burned. So it's not going into the oceans.
What will be cheaper, the replacement for disposable dishes and cutlery plus the cost of transitioning to them, or cleaning up the trash?
Have we considered that it might be cheaper to let it all gather in that one part of the Pacific where it all seems to be ending up anyhow, and just sweep it up?
Maybe it isn't. Maybe it would be worse to do it that way regardless. I don't know, which is why the question needs to be asked and answered.
The trash in the streets might get picked up by concerned citizens, the city certainly isn't sending round work crews except on the most heavily trafficked roads. Most of the time though it gets washed into the storm drainage system, which eventually flows to a river.
Your lack of belief doesn't make what I said any less true.
You did that all on your own. What you said was false. Old growth sequesters more carbon than new growth. If only you knew what you were talking about, you might have something to add to this conversation, but you don't, so why not STFU?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Increased carbon dioxide levels do increase plant growth for some plants grown in greenhouses.
Sure, it just doesn't increase tree growth. It doesn't help all plants you might grow in a greenhouse, either. And in order to use more CO2 you need more insolation, but you also need to keep temperatures below 100 degrees (or so) because plants shut their stoma around there to decrease moisture loss. If you use supplemental light, and coolers in the hot season, then you can do meaningful CO2 enrichment.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
How did I know who you were linking to before I clicked? They're out of China, BTW. I think one of them had a kid and didn't want him born in China's medical system.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I work at a landfill. Plastic plates, cups and cutlery aren't even on the radar. Now, plastic bags, plastic wrap, and chip/crisps/cookie/biscuit bags...ban those if you really want to have a positive effect on the environment.
You clearly didn't, because you're still thinking I linked ADVChina because you didn't watch the video in its entirety.
You linked SerpentZA. He and C-Milk are in Vietnam for the moment, gushing about how it's like China was when they fell in love with it. Yes, his buddy is in it, but what's your point?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
This is a very strange question. What's my point? Did you fail to read my original post?
Or do you think it magically changed over me debunking your silliness which you sorta-kinda admitted to in your last post?
I think you have me confused with the AC you were arguing against. You certainly have me confused.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
R&D isn't magic. You cannot create plastic from sunlight for free, using oil is the closest you will ever come.
And I never really understood that type of environmentalism. Biofuel, bioplastics; Lets use 5 barrels of oil to produce some product out of plants, that we can currently create using 1 barrel of oil if we just chemically modify the oil.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
b) growing saplings fix a lot more CO2 from the atmosphere than mature trees do.
What?
A growing sapling produces like a gram of wood a year. A mature tree continues too increase its growth rate as it ages, so can produce upwards of hundreds of pounds of wood.
Where is the sapling storing all this carbon?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Ok, I guess it's just an American problem then. Apparently most Americans aren't as anal retentive/OCD as I am; I find it kind of annoying, actually. But then I actually pick up some of the litter they throw on the ground, too.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
"Told how to drive"... you mean like on the Autobahn? Oh yeah, Americans have so much more freedom! Like the freedom to marry the person you love, that Pence is desperately hoping to take away from you, or the freedom to control your own body, that the Republicans are trying to stack the courts to take away from you!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
2/3 of gun deaths in the United States are suicides... is it possible that restricting the availability of guns might save a few lives? Personally, I wish people that take their own lives wouldn't leave such a big mess for other people to clean up...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Russians don't need happiness; they have vodka!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.