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Drug Use Among Programmers
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Drug use amongst programmers.
The article talks about the high tech industry, stress, and
stimulants (the big ones like Cocaine and Crack, not the
wussy stuff like caffeine :)
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or Pot Usage == Contented Programmer
:) ). Two years ago (I am 27 now), I tried it a couple times and realized that I liked it. Since I waited until I was older, I believe I was more in control of my new "vice".
I was 25 when I started smoking pot. My mom and dad had used it a lot all through my childhood, but I never did it myself (probably because I didn't like the smell back then
I sit in front of a computer 10+ hours a day and have realized that smoking this stuff allows me to enjoy the art of programming more than before I smoked it. I program more code, and I do a much better job at documentation when I am high.
It's not for everyone. If you don't like it, don't do it. Pot smokers are different group than the coke-heads. Don't lump the two together.
http://www.drugtext.org/
http://www.hyperreal.org/drugs/
http://www.maps.org/
http://marijuana.newscientist.com/
http://www.norml.org/
http://www.lycaeum.org
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of java that the thoughts acquire speed,
The hands acquire a shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
I've never seen the point of nicotine.
Tell you what...if it's your life, cancel your health insurance, and pay your own medical bills when the time comes (and it will). Oh...I guess it's only your life until something goes wrong...then it's everyone's problem. A bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
Heh. If you're going to pretend to be rational, objective, or honest about this (there's no reason why you should, because you have popular prejudice on your side, but let's just pretend
So.
Let's be adults about this. If we're going to penalize people for things which statistically are likely to have certain effects on peoples' health, let's be even handed about it. Let's give insurers the right to pry into every tiny little corner of your life and bill you for every Twinkie you eat, whether you like it or not. After all, they're paying for your body. They've got a right to decide how you maintain it. Right? That seems to be your point, as far as I can tell: That my smoking may at some point in the future cost you money, so therefore you have some rights in the matter. If you can get in my face about smoking for those reasons, I can certainly get in your face if you skip breakfast or if you neglect to engage in safe, careful low-impact aerobic excercises to ward off heart disease. You're costing me money, my friend. Straighten out and fly right.
(If you object to smoking because of the smell, that's a separate issue. You are sufficiently rude, inconsiderate, and self-righteously arrogant that I'd probably laugh at you -- but if you had even a trace of manners and you asked nicely, I'd put out my cigarette without any argument. A lot of people in this world are well-mannered. I get along very well with them. Then again, that kind of mutual consideration and decency is probably incomprehensible to an morals cop like you.)
If we're not going to condemn ourselves to the hell outlined above, let's behave like civilized people and treat each other decently.
Oh, yeah, one more thing: If I die when I'm 65, I'm not going to be costing you a whole hell of a lot after that, am I? Furthermore, when people die, they usually do it in a hospital. ALL of us. You, me, everybody. We all die, and we all die for some reason. Whatever people die of, odds are it will be treated, and the treatment will cost money. (Emphysema costs a lot more than some things, but then again it's quite rare.) You may very well die of something a hell of a lot more expensive than what I die of. Insurance is a game of averages. Your argument is massively simplistic.
It's the usual War on Drugs (WoD) scare-tactic propoganda. Hint: you can spot it when they talk about the general category of "drugs" without differentiating among them, and without acknowledging that many drugs are socially acceptable (caffeine, alcohol, aspirin, meds). Recreational drugs are all different, have different cultures around them, and it's deceitful and dangerous to make blanket statements about all of them.
I know many many people (including many programmers) who celebrate their use of pot, psychedelics, and Ecstasy, but virtually none who use crack, heroin, or even cocaine on a regular basis.
Starting in college, there was always a faction of the programmers who partied hard, including lots of recreational drug use, especially psychedelics. They weren't stupid about it either; they were careful.
One friend who hardly uses any drugs swears she's a better programmer after smoking pot, because she can picture elaborate and intricate structures better. And she is definitely a talented programmer. (I can picture elaborate things when I'm using psychedelics, but I can't keep my attention span long enough to code it in.)
There are so many problems with this article, I don't know where to start. I just scrolled my browser to a random screenful:
- "We found regular users who were clinically depressed at some stage during the week," Dr Curran said. "Ecstasy makes your brain spill out huge levels of serotonin, the feel-good hormone, and the brain has to work really hard to get it back."
- They lump ecstasy and cocaine together, as if they're similar cultures. Hel-lo? Big difference.
- "If you give four doses of ecstasy to a monkey it still has brain damage two years later," she said.
- "When it comes to the health issues, people poo-poo all the information pushed at them."
OK, that's half a screenful and it's already too long, so I'll stop now.This interpretation is skewed to fit their desired conclusions. Quite possibly, many people take Ecstasy in the first place to relieve depression. I know it helped me a great deal when I was younger and dealing with severe and depressing loneliness. It gave me the first glimpse of "life can be worth living".
Nothing quantified here, just ominous-sounding words. How much brain damage? More than a beer? Brain cells don't regenerate, so *you* still have a teensy bit of brain damage from your first beer. And giving four HUMAN doses to a little monkey is extremely excessive; no educated drug user would take that kind of relative dose.
They poo-poo information from articles like this, whose main function is to scare rather than educate. Smart drug users take real information very seriously, but can usually spot propoganda.
If we had true dug education, young people would have far fewer problems with drugs. For starters, they would know to stick to the good and non-addictive ones. But since our government is saying "all drugs are bad", which the kids know to be absurd (if they've ever smoked a joint), they don't think there will be any problem with PHP or crack.
I take certain recreational drugs not to "escape" or to "cope", but because they enhance my life in many wonderful and insightful ways. And yes, to improve my relationships with other people. I have strong bonds with many of my lifelong friends, enhanced by various drug experiences.
(I'm anonymous here, until our society gets a lick of sense about this stupid anti-drug thing.)
Coyote-san wrote:
...I find your pseudocode disturbing. You didn't test for someone incapacitated by pot; you test for someone who tests positive for pot at *any* time. It apparently doesn't matter to you whether they smoked the joint before the big presentation to clients... or they simply attended the "wrong" concert with the "wrong" crowd over the weekend. (Or they ate too many poppy seed bagels too close to a random drug test....)
Technically, the pseudocode says nothing of the sort. It uses an unspecified "test" to determine whether or not the person "smokesweed", which the most likely definition would be "has smoked weed in the past and is likely to do so in the future". Of course using this as a criteria is just as dangerous as what you interpreted it as. Also, there is no real world test that would cover this interpretation.
The teenager driver facing a "drunk driving" charge because the state's "zero tolerance" policy towards alcohol makes no exemption for NyQuil.
NyQuil is over 60 Proof, almost as strong as hard liquor! On top of that, it includes antihistamines which are notorious for screwing with reflexes and attention span. Driving on NyQuil is very dangerous. Personally, I think that the emphasis that "drunk driving is bad" is dangerous, because it doesn't address all the other stupid and dangerous ways people can drive while unfit. Most cold medicines, most prescription painkillers, lack of sleep, all of these can demolish your ability to drive. People tend to over look that because they aren't drinking. "Zero tolerance" laws are a bad idea in general, but the NyQuil example just doesn't hold water.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Drinking and driving is an unfair comparison to popping an E. While it is true that an "inexperienced" individual could make rational decisions about the intelligence of either act, somebody who snorts coke, or drops E does not cause second-hand effects to others, and does not risk the obvious catastrophes associated with drinking and driving.
:-)
I'd elaborate, but I've had this window open that I'm sure somebody else already has
That's the biggest "oopsie" I've ever performed on my Linux box: I got involved with that other great export from Chippewa Falls (and no, I don't mean Cray) and apparently changed the root password. The next morning, I went to get root to do something or other, and couldn't remember what I'd changed it to.
Maybe someone could come up with a handy-dandy serial breathalizer; when you go to su, you have to blow less than a .15 (hey, you're not driving a car or anything...)
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
"When I'm on E it feels like my mind has opened up - I don't care about anything."
Wow... all that from a window manager?
sure, it smells bad, but tobacco smoke smells much worse.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
How about a: Don't do drugs and post comments warning? I'm sure it would bring the number of incomphrenesible postings down. ;]
Well this guy lived in the UK where they make the F1's I'm not sure if they are street legal, but he was driving it madly all over his area and scaring the $%@#% out of the locals. He also was noticed piloting his personal helicopter dangerously low and fast in the area too.
420 (the code cops use for calling in pot) happens to be tomarrow 4/20.
Posted by ParaMetalHead:
>are there ANY sane coders who DON'T smoke weed?
-I quite firmly believe so... Of course, as for me, I may not be entirely sane - but who is? And I don't do drugs. I don't see why I should, because I'm a programmer? Nah, don't think so.
>anyone who says you can't code while stoned >obviously doesn't smoke enough buds!
I guess I don't...
Posted by ParaMetalHead:
Goddamn true! Especially when riding the roads on a motorcycle - that makes you feel _alive_!
Posted by ParaMetalHead:
Aren't we being a bit pessimistic here? To relate to earlier posts: I am a programmer, I don't do drugs, I don't have a girlfriend, I have no trouble in interacting with people. But: I don't consider drug users to be morons/losers/whatever, it's your choice, goddammit! If you want to make that choice, do so, I am happy with my after work-beer, and if you are unhappy about your decision, choose again - life doesn't stop just because you do something wrong.
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
I too am annoyed by dopeheads while they spout their mid-stupor drivel, but I see it more as a freedom issue. If you want to smoke something that'll make you stupid for 4 hours, you should be able to. I'd prefer a beer anyday.
As for the issue of Toxins, there is nothing that you do that is not bad for you in some way. Breathing exposes you to environmental pollution, eating cooked food exposes you to aeromatic hydrocarbons which are known carcinogens. Eating uncooked food exposes your body to microorganisms.
Smoking dope isn't good for you, but don't give me that "it's too bad for you" line.
LK
Posted by mhmbear:
golden oldie, to be rediscovered every 4 months or so, . . .
Guess what - - - intellectuals/dummies/programmers and even regular people experiment, sometimes it is not good for them.
I did my experimenting, life in the fast lane, after 4 years at the UofM - A2, then as a COBOL programmer for the AF in Berlin, Germany 20 years ago.
Freud did Cocaine, there is an impressive amount of research going on into native peoples and shamanism. Drug use / lifestyles outside the norms / age groups and rebellion / too much money at too young an age ? I don't think there is anything really new in any of this - or does someone else see something I missed?
A2, we used to ask is it real or chemical (The joke is mushrooms were just as chemical as the LSD, but were grown in manure rather than local labs). Now, we can probably expand
those categories by real/chemical/electronic - soooo - basic parameters and reactions stay about the same.
There are other experiences out there - some will experiment. Some will try to control.
It has been just as interesting and rewarding as an oldster, who survived and fortunately wasn't caught or punished (except by my own mind and body), to explore 'recovery' on the web ! Never found a drug I could do socially other than chocolate - ah well - the addictive personality - is that why I'm here ?
Now, if I could just stay off the nicotine and relax my cramped back . . .
Gee, Let's trade a drug-induced delusional reality for a bible-induced one. Big fscking improvement. Addiction is the same whether it's drugs or middle-ages dogma.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Granted, I do roleplaying games, so I avoid reality too, but I *use* my brain to do it, instead of destroying my brain as I do it.
Hell, I don't even drink alchohol, except when I take cold medicine. The strongest thing I 'do' is Mt. Dew.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Haha! Oh wow, I almost forgot! I better save a bit....
:)
oh nevermind.
-Erik-
The beginning seemed to hypothesize that successful young people turn on to cocaine because its perceived as being glamorous...
This article reeks of 80s anti-drug hype. For the most part, the drug users I know stick to psychedelics, empathogens, and pot.
This article doesn't belong on Slashdot. Anyone can do drugs, and anyone can have a drug problem. Techies aren't more or less vulnerable.
(BTW: Someone please tell the walls to stop breathing; they're freaking me out. NYAR!)
--Threed
Since this is a U.K. study only I would suspect that there would be a big difference in the U.S. I have yet to see any programmers that would touch anything stronger then Pot. Even then they are hard to find. Even harder to get someone to admit it. I would guess that this story would depend more on Geographic location then on Job profession. I just find it hard to believe that my boss would be snorting back a 8-ball. As for drug testing... I have yet to have a job interview that did not test for drugs. In the U.S. I would have to guess that It would be alot harder to get a good job with a large company and be a Drug user.
/. poll idea. Who know's maybe all those stoned programmers from the 60's know something I don't. Do you think more drugs in college would have helped my G.P.A.?
It is a neat
( giggle giggle )
Last one in jail is a fascist.
If I remember my psych classes, where we talk about the chemical reactions in the brain and how drugs work chemically, the way that _most_ drugs work isn't all that different. It is easier to get to the same level of 'high' and sustain it with drugs. Many drugs boost the production of certain naturally created chemicals in the brain. And the 'high' actually comes from these chemicals rather then the drug you are taking. So it is possible to get the same highs naturally, but not as easy. Once again as far as I can remember.
Later,
Xamot
?
>Temporary patches aren't going to fill up that God-shaped hole in your heart. Only one thing can fill that hole.
Yup, sacramental wine. Or kosher wine...
Those "old-time" religions have their drug too.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Yep, when you get to be my age, you don't do anything that might result in the loss of brain cells!
I'll stick to Coke, Dew, Dr. Pepper, and Becks and Corona in moderation. :-)
TedC
TedC
"Jimi did drugs, and Jimi's dead; I went hunting, and I'm still Ted!"
Old Metallica, Nine Inch Nails, etc. are also quite good Quake music, and are preferable when sober. Just a personal preference.
-- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
nuff said
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
Sounds good to me...
:)
...if they weren't sorority sisters.
(hmm. Coding nubile women. Sure beats coding drugs. Atheists playing God, yeah, baby...)
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Heh. I don't do any drugs, but I don't have a girlfriend (and no prospects either) and I do not deal well with people. That doesn't necessarily make a person do drugs, but for those who choose to, that's their choice, and I'm not gonna question it. I may not do it, but who am I to argue with what they choose to do?
Seems like you're trying to prove your justification in saying "drugs are bad". Uh huh. Emotional benefits may only be temporary, but if that's what they feel they need, then go for it. (I don't trust therapy too much - my mom was in therapy some years ago, and from my POV, it doesn't seem to have helped things much. And no, it's not due to my dad that she was in therapy.)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
So they blow their brains out with chemicals because they're too stressed out. What about after the comedown? Hey, guess what, nothing's improved.
Temporary patches aren't going to fill up that God-shaped hole in your heart. Only one thing can fill that hole.
but I think this one would need checkboxes
This sig left unintentionally blank.
Hey, isn't it 4:20pm? Oh my, it is! :)
Take a look at the clocks in Pulp Fiction - they're all set to 4:20... :)
Don't get me wrong, I had girlfriends during that time, but they all smoked, too. What i have now is a partner, and she doesn't do drugs, so I don't either. I have lots of sex.
Okay, that's true, but not the main point. The main point is, she is a real partner, she draws me out, listens to me. Real emotional support, being close and connected with another human being, it's better than any drug out there, and better for you.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
We should not forget the #1 and #2 killer drugs (measured in absolute numbers).
Another interesting aspect of UK/US comparison is that notions of privacy make it virtually impossible for employers in the UK to use drug testing on employees. Considering the hypocrisy of drug testing this is probably not a bad thing - I'm sure that far more money is lost to firms by employees being hungover than smoking a joint over the weekend.
Nick
-- "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park" - Jim Moran
The article is more of a report on the drug culture in the UK than a report on drug culture in IT. My limited experience says that Brits tend to embrace recreational speed and pharmeceuticals, while Americans are more puritan, often inisisting on "natural" drugs, or cleaving to the insistent "NO." Drugs seem to be a bigger part of youth culture in the UK as well, but this impression of mine may be driven more by media than reality.
It's about $1M US, and it's basically a road-going GTP (Grand Touring Prototype) car raced on the sports car (Le Mans, etc) road circuits. Definitely capable of >200MPH. Lot's of people screw up in them because you need to be a serious driver, and they sell them to anyone with the money. Shame.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
A couple of years ago a guy was stopped on the NJ Turnpike for having a taillight out or something. He had $1500 on him. The cops didn't like his explanation, so they took it. No drugs, revoked license, nothing. That's all they needed - the suspicion. Then you get to have a lawyer try to get it back.
Now they target investigations by how much $$$ they'll get in cars and homes instead of by the crime. A local car dealer suspected his half-partner of shady dealings, so he bugged the guys' office. It was found, and he was charged with an illegal wiretap. Then the cops found some pot in a shoebox in his closet at home, and they tried to get him to forfeit his $500K house AND the car dealership that he had run for 20 years. Like he paid for the house by selling pot to his friends, and not from the proceeds of his $2M/mo dealership. When I told this to a Russian friend, he said "But no, that can't be. That's what they did in Russia!"
Yeah, we know.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Hey, is there anywhere I could forward my resume? At least it sounds like you've got a rockin' crowd, y'know?
The revolution will NOT be televised.
What was that line? Guess it needs a re-write. Home of the beaten-about-the-head-and-neck-by-insurance-compan ies-and-the-morally-righteous, land of the can-i-have-your-permission-before-i-ride-my-bike-n anny?
We all die, and few of us ever choose when. No point in arguing about how.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
I used to smoke pot, hell I used to do many other chemicals too. I don't anymore.. why? I don't need that high anymore. There is a lot of stuff you can do that's legal, and puts you in a much better mood then any drug.. and on top of that it's possibly even "good" for you.
However it's not the same thing.. it never can be.. but it doesn't mean it's not as good or better as a drug high.
Though I do agree with you.. if you haven't tried don't judge those who have and do. You may not agree with their choice, that's your right.. , but that cuts both ways.
Ex-Nt-User
What do you mean 'need'? I've never 'needed' to be high ever in my life
Perhaps that was a bad choice of words.. I've never needed to be high either. A need is a symptom of addiction. But I chose to use it because I enjoyed the experiance. I used it socially, I used it by myself if I was in a bad mood sometimes. I don't do it anymore because I found different things that I enjoy more that high, and that pot interfered with.
What have you found Jesus?
No I did't find Jesus, I'm atheist if you must know. And since when does religion and drug use have anything to do with each other?
All I was saying is that there are other things in life that can be just as enjoyable as a high, mabey even more so, just because YOU haven't found them doesn't mean they DON'T EXIST. I'm not saiyng you are an idiot for using drugs or even that you are wrong for doing so. As far as I'm concerned you can do what you want because it's YOUR choice! But don't come off calling everyone that doesn't use drugs or finds other things that they enjoy more then drugs as some kind of nut just because YOU don't enjoy them.
A lot of people have had bad experiances with drugs does that give them the right to slam you because you have had a GOOD experiance with those same drugs?
It's about choice. And that one person should not frown upon anothers choice without checking it out for themselves.
Ex-Nt-User
Remember those two losers who prided themselves because they pirated software? Now that they have fancy jobs and make tons of money, I bet they're going to spend a lot of it on drugs. After all, they couldn't afford it before, and they have no problem being criminals.
--
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
given no evidence of the existance of god.. I would have to say the reality is that people just want to have fun on the weekend. While most people turn to alcohol.. (a dangerous drug) some people just choose different drugs.
you didn't include any dissociatives or psychedelics.. Dextromethorphan.. LSD, Ketamine, PCP, etc.
From the caffeine faq:
Toxic dose
The LD_50 of caffeine (that is the lethal dosage reported to kill
50% of the population) is estimated at 10 grams for oral
administration. As it is usually the case, lethal dosage varies
from individual to individual according to weight. Ingestion of
150mg/kg of caffeine seems to be the LD_50 for all people. That
is, people weighting 50 kilos have an LD_50 of approx. 7.5 grams,
people weighting 80 kilos have an LD_50 of about 12 grams.
In cups of coffee the LD_50 varies from 50 to 200 cups of coffee
or about 50 vivarins (200mg each).
One exceptional case documents survival after ingesting 24 grams.
The minimum lethal dose ever reported was 3.2 grams
intravenously, this does not represent the oral MLD (minimum
lethal dose).
In small children ingestion of 35 mg/kg can lead to moderate
toxicity. The amount of caffeine in an average cup of coffee is
50 - 200 mg. Infants metabolize caffeine very slowly.
Symptoms
+ Acute caffeine poisoning gives early symptoms of anorexia,
tremor, and restlessness. Followed by nausea, vomiting,
tachycardia, and confusion. Serious intoxication may cause
delirium, seizures, supraventricular and ventricular
tachyarrhythmias, hypokalemia, and hyperglycemia.
+ Chronic high-dose caffeine intake can lead to nervousness,
irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching,
insomnia, palpitations and hyperreflexia. For blood testing,
cross-reaction with theophylline assays will detect toxic
amounts. (Method IA) Blood concentration of 1-10 mg/L is
normal in coffee drinkers, while 80 mg/L has been associated
with death.
Shawn Asmussen
Don't get me wrong. I think it is stupid to prohibit pot and simultaneously permit alcohol, which is argably more harmful. But you are a fool if you think pot is harmless (much less shrooms or LSD!!).
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
I know that was a typo, but it's still pretty funny... PHP's not a bad little language, but every time I talk about it, people think I'm talking about PCP. :)
--
Jake
The thing that struck me the most about the article is that the dude crashed his F1. Man, that is such a nice car...
(sniff)
Tried reading it. Gave up. The writing style is rather dense, and a chore to get through. Maybe one needs to be on the right kind of drugs?
Most professionals that I know of have too many resposibilities to be experimenting. Many like me have random drug tests, and can not afford to screw up. There is simply just no time to "explore your mind." I could not function in an enhanced state, not to mention my health being compromised.
If teenagers were to be drug checked, watch out...
Geeks smoke? I was surprised at the October ALS when we gathered at a nearby bar and grill for some good brew. Upstairs was the bar. That was the first bar I have ever been to where no smoke was in the air. That whole night, I counted two smokers. The bar was filled with people who had palm pilots and unusual electronic toys. One of the girls from Linuxworld sat next to me. I just wish there was a place like that I could go every weekend.
That was my only experience at a bar where people didn't light up. The staff may have thought something was odd.
You don't have to have personal experience to understand a lot of problems. But you do have to have facts. Experience is not the only way to gather facts, but facts are required.
For some reason, the drug issue is unique in that people don't seem to think that facts are required to solve the real problems that are associated with drug use. "Drugs are bad, m'kay?" is considered a solid enough fact to dictate public policy.
So, you're right, you don't need experience. That said, I certainly haven't seen you or anyone else in your camp offer up and kind of insight or information that contradicts my broader point about the superficiality of anti-drug arguments.
No, all that's required it to make judgemental, sweeping statements about experiences you haven't had. For example:
- I think drugs
... are ... an attempt to avoid reality because it 'feels good' to do so.
Now, you can't get in the club unless you openly admit you don't know what you're talking about.- I don't even drink alchohol, except when I take cold medicine. The strongest thing I 'do' is Mt. Dew.
Attaboy!- Bill Hicks
The boundaries of my experience are the boundaries of a complete and all-encompassing experience. Anything outside of my experience must suck because I haven't deemed it worthy of my effort. Or it's too scary.
I'm not perfect. However, any flaw I do have is fixed by an invisible, magical being to whom I devote a great deal of time and energy. If people would believe that this magical being would fix their lives, they wouldn't be druggy losers.
>>...would be no MAC and no Windows :-; And this is a bad thing? :)
I have to return some videotapes...
> "Ecstasy makes your brain spill out huge levels
> of serotonin, the feel-good hormone, and the
> brain has to work really hard to get it back."
I find it hard to take an article seriously if they use an "authoritative" source on neuropsychology who states that serotonin is a hormone. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter, NOT a hormone. Second, the output of serotonin from the presynaptic neuron is NOT hugely affected by MDMA (X), it is the reuptake that is affected. Plus, "the brain has to work really hard to get it back"?! Yes, X and coke inhibit the reuptake of dopamine and serotonin, but the body has no problem generating more, or reuptaking it once the drugs affects have worn off. The problem the body encounters is the post-synaptic receptors adaption to the large levels of serotonin in the synapse.
Josh
I don't do drugs and I very rarely ever drink. Well, 11.75 months out of the year, anyway.
There is the anual trip I make with a SysAdmin friend, and I've taken stuff with her I never even knew existed.
Then I get home, put on the tie, and it's clean and sober for another year.
Unix geeks are the devil's flunkies. I'm sure of it.
As long as they haven't found out about the barnyard animals in the server room, I think we can get through this.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Maybe these 'IT professionals' they interviewed were actually full time graphic artists, web designers, or mostly management and marketting people with spare cycles to burn.
Oh thanks. I'm a graphic artist/web designer (and coca-cola addict). During my idle time at work (waiting for Photoshop to do something, usually) I like to balance my checkbook, doodle, or talk to my co-workers.
In the future, I'd appreciate it if you reserved comments like that for mangement and marketing. I don't care about any of their feelings ;)
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
You seem to advocate the idea that a person should not have an opinion about something that he/she has not experienced. Do you really believe this?
It's nonsense, of course.
For instance, I believe very strongly that the absence of civilization is bad and to be avoided, even though I have never experienced the absence of civilization and even though there are lots of movies that make the absence of civilization look appealing.
>I certainly can't imagine doing anything in front >of the computer on acid!
What about Cthugha? 8-P
----- My opinions are my own, etc, etc.
I've smoked happy weed a few times, but still believe that it's better to get 'high on life'.
So does that make me an exception?
No, of course not! It takes more effort to take delight in life sometimes, but if an individual has got what it takes, they can squeeze water from a rock.
It's much harder to sailboard than to operate a jet ski. Think about that one!
Lucky Strikes, unfiltered sticks 'o' doom for me, thanks.
There's a local employer who some friends of mine and I have had an interesting evolution for their level of crack usage. It started out with them smoking crack, but eventually they got to the level of taking crack in a suppository form.
Now the OpenSound guys... THEY have got to be smoking some serious crack.
See, it's an expression. I'm sure they don't, but they just seem to.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Gah. I know very few people who do smoke weed, and they're Mac users. That doesn't say anything about people who use various OSes as it does for statistical clustering. I can't stand pot. It smells nasty, makes me nauseous (I've never smoked it, but have had plenty of second-hand exposure), and tends to make the people who use it, well, stupid.
I had a roommate once who was a major pothead and, as such, had a major pothead entourage. They would always listen to reggae really loud while smoking weed, and have conversations which, although maybe enlightened in their minds, went something like this:
Heh, that's cool.
Uh huhuh, yeah, huh, like, totally.
Yeah, man, like... heh, that was funny when, huh, pfffffft, yeah, this is good shit!
Huh, dude, like... yeah.
Pfffft, bitchin'.
These are, of course, the same types who use Bob Marley as a martyr for the cause of smoking weed. Wow, some cause. So this guy apparently died for their right to smoke a drug which makes them stupid and hungry all the time. Great. What a thing to be remembered for.
Myself, if I want to get high, it'll be on an adrenaline rush from some good ol' FPS gaming. Hell, even a CTF botmatch (CRbot is fun to play with, even if the bot isn't all that lifelike or good; it's fun to have bots which talk smack and actually use the gestures).
I also like getting high on music. Some music, such as Cibo Matto's album "Viva La Woman," have this effect of putting me in a wonderful trance.
There are so many good things to get high on which don't involve introducing toxins into your system. Okay, sure, I abuse caffeine just as much as anyone else, but I'm trying to cut down, and caffeine doesn't affect the brain (at least, aside from being addictive).
Gah. Potheads just make me sick.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?
Not quite. The production run was only three hundred fifty, so they were already a hot commodity before everybody and his brother tried to break the sound barrier with it. I think something like ten or twenty have already been totaled. My uncle has been trying to get one for a year but no one will sell. I wish they sold them to anyone with money.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
3 days? Good god, where can I get some of that? Tomorrow's 4/20, my Christmas, and there's nothing I'd like more to buzz `til 4/23.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
Let's get to what he's really saying here:
"Work from home" - I'm unemployed and live with my parents
"Have cool management" - My mom washes my clothes and vacuums, even though I'm 25
"Open source our bongs" - We pass the bowl, like every other pothead in the world
"The only thing that falls off is customer service" - Whenever I order Domino's I'm too scared it's the cops to open the door and get the pizza
So there you have it. Pretty cool job until your mom dies or dad kicks you out.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
I wouldn't know about the drugs, but I've found that I get an effect similar to what you describe toward the end of a hundred-hour coding session anyway, especially when assisted by adequate Mountain Dew.
Once past 72 hours (after watching the third consecutive sunrise), things start getting weird. The fourth night is when things just start falling into place, though hopefully, as you said, the bulk of the code is already written, simply because the typo frequency starts to get out of hand.
David Gould
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
Where do we send the resumes?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
You forgot: "Didn't he write the Tarzan books?"
Don't forget:
Nitrous
K
LSD
Smack
GHB
and many others....
I know (different) people who've done them all....
I have personally experienced this after taking 'shrooms, and it wasn't fun, but like they say, knowing that it's chemically induced does help.
Search first, ask questions later.
"Temporary patches aren't going to fill up that God-shaped hole in your heart. Only one thing can fill that hole."
A three-way with a couple of nubile sorority sisters looking to broaden their horizons?
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
"Although I have no relevant experience with drugs, never having taken them, I feel compelled to indict all those who do use drugs. Despite the fact that all of my information about drugs is either anecdotal or based on biased, often wildly inaccurate propaganda, I think I am completely qualified to label all those who use drugs as unworthy of the full-human status that I claim just for having a beating heart (pumping squeaky-clean blood, no less!)"
/. ?
Hey! Who knew Nancy Reagan read
Learn to spell: nickel, missile, lose, solely, amendment, speech, kernel, probably, ridiculous, deity, hierarchy, versus
what about noah's ark? if that isn't proof i don't know what is....sheesh.
Have you seen Ironstayn vs Supergovernment yet?
Have you ever had those evenings when you're just sitting around doing nothing - maybe watching TV or flipping through old magazines? These are the times when you should try smoking pot. If you've nothing better to do and want to see things from another point of view, or just feel really good. Clearly, however, you've already made up your mind; but I would invite to experience what it is like before dismissing it or passing judgement.
Incidentally, I don't smoke up on anything even approaching a regular basis - maybe two or three times a year.
Shit, I'm high right now! Think I'll have another hit...
Drugs are bad when abused but they're worse when they're illegal.
Interesting statistic is the fact that the rates for depression among women are approximately equal to the rates of alcoholism/addiction for men. It's not an unreasonable hypothesis that much addiction/alcoholism begins as an attempt to self-medicate depression, since men are less likely to deal with depression in social terms or seek professional help.
Ants can carry around something like 15 times their own body weight. That doesn't mean ants are mentally strong. They're just physically strong.
Being able to ingest more toxins than most people is a pretty pathetic thing to brag about. Is that the best thing about you, the thing you want everyone to remember? But, hey, cheer up: if the world turns into a radioactive, ozoneless wasteland, we're going to need big, strong burnouts to fill the worker castes, living and mutating outside the domes, while the smart folks get things done in safety and comfort. Your descendants and clones should fit the bill nicely!
And remember (while you still can), Linux is for smart people; just imagine how you're going to feel when you have just enough smarts left to figure out the basics of MS Bob, and maybe AOL, but anything beyond that just slips your mind every time. You can remember doing all those cool things in Linux, but now you can barely remember how to get rid of that damn Paperclip thing. And then you smell something funny, and realize you had to take a dump 30 minutes ago, but it's no longer a problem...
Taking drugs is "hacking" like throwing iron filings into your monitor is hacking... they're both using tools to make things behave in unintended ways. Of course, the resulting lump isn't worth a crap, but hey, weren't you cool the night you did THREE eight-balls and a quart of tequila... *and* got the worm at the bottom?
The teenager driver facing a "drunk driving" charge because the state's "zero tolerance" policy towards alcohol makes no exemption for NyQuil. Another 12,341,861 examples available in your local newspaper.)
Heh... remember the news stories about the kids (in different states, at different times, but all were apparently elementary-school age, around 9 years old) who gave a classmate an aspirin/cough drop/whatever and were *expelled* from school??
Wanna know what the latest cool gang thing apparently is to do here in California? The gang is called "Straight Edge", and they don't drink, do drugs, or smoke... and if they come across anyone who DOES drink, do drugs, or smoke, they'll beat you into a bloody pulp (or until you're dead). Doesn't matter whether you're talking to them, or if you even see them. If they see YOU doing any of those things, they'll pound your face into the pavement. After all, if you'll do something that horrible, god only knows what else you'll do. You deserve whatever happens to you, right?
John Sniffpal, a cab driver at NYC, crashed last month in his $2500 Ford cab. Incredibly, Sniffpal had charges for not giving the right exchange to passengers and for illegall possesion of one WD40 can that were not CFC free. That proves that all cab drivers are in the useless junk group, aside with pro sprot players and programmers.
This proves that politicians, church members and military forces are the only clean people in the country.
Hmm, interesting article. But most of the Geeks I see using (at University of Michigan, so it may be a very small population sample) either are drinking (beer or vodka) or smoking weed. But then again, there are some club kid geeks who use E...
You gotta remember that while geeks are a subculture (of sorts), there is still a lot of variation inside the group. Some people will abuse, some won't use at all, and some will use a bit.
2.2.6-ac1000 was released today. It fixes that god-shaped hole. Hopefully it will be included in 2.2.7
This sig is false.
what about noah's ark? if that isn't proof i don't know what is....sheesh.
I hope you weren't being serious.
if (serious) {
sarcasm(on);
Yeah, boy... What was I (and the many other non-religious people in the word) thinking?
That proves the existance of god beyond a doubt.
sarcasm(off);
}
This sig is false.
Never does anything for me. Choke down half a bottle...nothing.
Not even drowsy.
*grumble*
This sig is false.
Don't talk about not being able to "do stuff" or being a retard on weed. I have known many intelligent people who have smoked and continue to smoke Marijuana and are competent human beings. By competant I mean being able to handle their personal and work lives and still do things while under the influence... Please don't show more signs of bigotry people.. It just shows your own ignorance.
Eric Taylor
...loads of techies frying their minds on crack (WAYY too declasse) or ecstasy (too trendy and clubbish)? No way... techies are usually looking for mind expansion or a bit of mellowing out... the heavy stuff gets in the way of the fun stuff (work).
Which reminds me... the article forgets one thing. Most techies voluntarily work the crazy hours. The love for the work is the curse of the business.
In order, the drugs that are probably in heaviest use among techies are: caffeine (it's not even close), alcohol, herb, (insert prescription antidepressant/psychotropic here), nicotine (used to be much higher), psychedelics (LSD, psilocybins, etc.), milder downers (tranq's, ludes, etc.). Really heavy, hacksaw grade uppers like crack or crystal meth, honestly, I've never even heard anecdotes about a professional techie who's been around for a while using any of those.
I've heard plenty of stories told over goofy grins about booze, ganja and psychedelics for sure :-).
Never heard anyone talk, even in whispers, about crack, etc.
Yes.
There are quite a few of us who believe in freeing the weed as well as the source code.
I know more herbal appreciators than beer guzzling professionals.
Why do you think so few top paying sys admin / programming positions drug test? I think it is because this is one field where if you don't like a company's invasion of your privacy and violation of what should be your rights as an adult, you can easily find an employment offer with another more open minded company that realizes it is more important to get a good employee than to save a few bucks on their group insurance policy (most insur companies give discounts to companys that drug test).
I don't really agree with the article's insinuation that most IT drug users are crack heads, coke heads, or little x popping teeny college ravers.
I would say the majority are casual to cronic nug tokers, with a fair amount of shroom eaters, and few hard core old time LSD lovers. All non-addictive and non-harmful to the body or the mind.
It's the same in Georgia.
Wrong.
"They" don't give a shit 9 out of 10 times.
"They" like me, either tried, did, or do smoke.
"They" are a business out to make money and increase profits wherever possible. Insurance companies give discounts to companies who drug test. Companies are not going to volunteer to pay money for drug testing, possibly loose that hard to find producer worker, etc... without a financial motivation. The financial motivation comes from the discounts the insurance companies provide to companies that drug test. It has nothing to do about trust.
At one company I worked for, the president was making the move to initiate a drug testing policy for all new employees. He asked for my input. I asked why he would want to ever do anything that incredibly stupid...and found out how much money he could save on insurrance. When I suggested that he consider how much money it was going to take to replace me, he suggested that I had nothing to worry about because I was already hired. I made it clear that I was not worried, I was angry at what I had just found out, and that if he started forcing my new employees to pass a drug screening prior to employment or as a requirement for company provided insurance then I would be sending out my resume to the local competition.
The drug testing issue was dropped.
Not quite ignorance.
Just my personal "experiences".
Everything is harmful to the body if not taken in moderation. I cannot name one substance that enters the body that does not harm it in some way, much less in excess. Oxygen is needed. Two much oxygen and you die. Water quinches thirst. Water can drown you. Food provideds nutrients. Food makes you fat, clogs your atteries, etc...
In keeping an open mind and doing research into drugs when younger, the medical books and human biology material I read lead me to believe that pot does not cause long term harm to the body in more than turkey can. Same thing for mushrooms and LSD. They do have benefits that far out way the cons when used properly and in moderation.... such as mental relaxation and spirtiuality recharging. Why just eat for a healthy body, why can't you eat for a healthy mind as well?
Do you have any credible information to validate your remarks or are you just regurgitating some bullshit you believed off a dare commercial?
Want to go one on quoting NORML versus DARE literature? Want to see who ends up sounding blissful and ignorant? Fire it up.
When is traditional tea time in England?
Also, my favorite:
... new articles six days a week.
www.marijuananews.com
Richard Cowan dissects newspaper stories on the drug war from around the world
As far as I can see, they interviewed a bunch of young people involved in the Brittish rave/drug scene who happen to work in IT. They could easily have done the same for any other industry which hires young people, and it would've had the same level of relevance.
Bite the hand.
Bite the hand.
I've got to agree with A-Cow this one. Let's see now... the latest polls show what... 2 out of 5 people have smoked MJ... OK... well, now I would think that if you include the paranoia factor in there, one must rectify this statement by saying that 2 out of 5 people have admitted to smoking MJ.
Lots of people in the industry smoke. They may have trouble remembering where they left their keys, but it doesn't seem to nullify the years of code that have been engrained there.
And by the way... When did it become OK to analyse your employees activities when they're not at work? And how does this give you the right to assess what "optimal performance" might be for any particular employee?
If I played basketball every night after work & stayed up late watching TV so that I'm always tired when I come into work, does that mean I have a problem that effects wy work performance and my lifestyle should be under a microscope in Human Resources?
The point here is that if your work suffers you will hear about it. If you have a "problem" with ANYTHING then you will pay the piper. Somehow people think that because there is information about why something is bad for you that the public no longer has the right to choose. But it's selective though isn't it? Nuclear power has been proven over & over to be dangerous & toxic, but they haven't outlawed their use...
So if something makes a buck and kills you it's OK, but otherwise you're too inept to make your own informed decisions...
OK fine, be like the dutch. Legalize the marijuana & tax it, HEAVILY. Make the prices the same as they are now, but instead of the money going out of the country to cartels, let it be used for education, or anti drug crusades against DANGEROUS drugs. That way the 'dumbasses' can pay to do away with themselves.... Right?
Why are we fighting natural selection?
I did most of my VLSI project stoned. I got an A, and a commendation from the prof.
Yeah...so you did a second-rate job on your project, and your prof (who must have been stoned as well) did a second-rate job grading it. It's not something I'd be bragging about.
My clients love me. I make $110K/yr, have Jag and Porsche convertibles, and a small (but especially pretty) farm.
Rising to the pinnacle of mediocrity. Quite an accomplishment.
Well, you know, I don't do drugs (for various reasons, all valid unlike yours) but I do damn well smoke, and I'm very pleased at this moment to take your jackboots and your brown shirt and fuck yourself, okay, asshole?
Tell you what...if it's your life, cancel your health insurance, and pay your own medical bills when the time comes (and it will). Oh...I guess it's only your life until something goes wrong...then it's everyone's problem. A bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
somebody who snorts coke, or drops E does not cause second-hand effects to others, and does not risk the obvious catastrophes associated with drinking and driving.
You have GOT to be kidding. Cocaine DESTROYS lives. I destroys careers. It destroys families. It may not be anywhere near as immediate as an alcohol-induced car wreck, but there's no question about what it does to people.
I must apologize for such a quick and ill-mannered response. It's apparent that this poster and I have different ideas of success, and I just did a poor job pointing this out.
While I have never used any type of drug (illegal) many of my friends have. One of the things I have noticed is with LSD and other Psycoactive drugs you can never tell what they are going to do with you mind. A girl I knew took LSD once and is now in a mental hospital after going totally insane. It could be argued that that is a rare case but the point is it could happen. I view drug use as a sort of playing russian roulette with the brain. Sure you could do all sorts of drugs and end up fine and maybe even better off then if you never did. On the other hand you could get screwed up the first, fith, or 20th time you took them. Not to mention the amount of money you can soak into them and the possibility of going to jail. To me it just isn't worth it in the end.
(Besides that I am a christian and don't believe drugs fit in with my purpose in life any way)
I always liked the Barsoom ones better. Have you read that Philip Jose Farmer story where he tried to write a Tarzan story in the style of WSB? As I recall (it's been a while) he didn't quite nail WSB's style, but it was a hoot anyway.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
Spending time in a state that is less than real makes little sense.
I assume you don't read, watch movies, watch TV, play video games . . . ?
Do problems go away . .
You're assuming that everybody who uses drugs, does so to "escape problems". Why do you assume that? If that's an accurate description of recreational drug use, then it's an accurate description of all other forms of recreation as well.
. . . after a benge(sp)?
It's "binge". Who said anything about binges? You're taking extreme examples (probably from the media), and insisting without justification that they accurately reflect all cases. Not everybody who has a glass of wine with dinner (or on occasion two or three) is an alcoholic wife-beater.
Drugs use make people less respectable due to their evident lack of self respect.
It's "evident" to you, maybe, but not to anybody familiar with the phenomenon.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
I was abused in some way as a child and the drugs make the emptiness and emotional void I feel seem OK . .
I hope you realize that you're talking to people who exist only in your own mind and in the media. Read some posts here. They're all saying they get high because it's fun. Deal with it. If the only way you can "refute" drug use is by flaming strawmen, then maybe your "refutation" is a crock, ever think of that?
some things you just have to learn the hard way.
So how do you know so much about drugs?
Then again, why do you give a rat's ass about how other people live their lives?
I'll be forced to be brutally honest
No, you'll feel compelled (for some sick reason) to vomit up an undigested mess of ignorant biases and uninformed superstition. You mention "brutal honesty", but your entire post is hopelessly disconnected from reality. It's sad.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
I can legitimately say that because that was me 7 years ago [etc. about bad experiences]
You and some of your friends. Well, that does suck. Nobody should have to deal with that shit -- but you are not representative of everybody who takes drugs. Quite a few of my friends have done drugs for years, for entirely different reasons. They weren't fucked up when they started, and they're not fucked up now. As I said before, "your entire post is hopelessly disconnected from reality". Okay, "entire" was an overstatement. But you are using a small amount of anecdotal evidence to attack people who you've never met, and who do not have the same problems.
Your would have the same problems regardless of drug use. People whose childhoods got fucked up have problems. Your tendency to blame the victim is depressing, because it seems obvious to me that you are not responsible for what was done to you, but that's your own business. You are, of course, entirely responsible for your subsequent decision to take your anger out on others and continue the cycle. This, I suppose, is where it's convenient for you to blame yourself for what happend to you -- because then when you attack others, you'll at least be consistent when you blame them for what you do to them. Brilliant.
the violent mood swings, those are a lark . . . increasing withdrawal from society . . . increasingly low lows
I get all that crap without drugs.
Go ahead and kill yourself. Darwin at work if you ask me.
You're the one who had the problems, baby, not me.
If you endanger MY life in the process, I will get a bit upset.
It's hard for me to imagine what worth your cramped, hostile little existence could possibly have for anyone, even yourself. Then again, we're all God's children and you've got as much right to live on this earth as I have.
If you knew he was stoned out of his gourd when he wrote it (because of the "pressure") would you excuse it? I wouldn't.
I wouldn't excuse somebody writing mission-critical code at 4 AM the night before it ships, either. You're insisting that anybody who takes any drugs at all must necessarily be "stoned out of his gourd" 24/7, but that's absurd. I drink a glass or two of wine with dinner most nights, and then I get up the next morning and drive, cold sober, to work. I work all day, cold sober, and drive home. I feed my cats, cold sober. When dinner comes around, I generally have a beer or a glass or two of wine with my dinner. In your mind, this probably means that I'm writing code "blind, stinking drunk" at work all day. Fine. Assume anything you like. What were you saying above, about "paranoia", "violent mood swings", "withdrawal from society" . . . ? Hmmm . . . You don't seem to need drugs for that.
I'd more than likely just laugh at you.
I wouldn't laugh at you. If you behaved as badly as you're behaving here, I might very well ignore you, but I wouldn't laugh. We're social animals. A culture is doomed if the people in it don't treat each other decently.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
It's the queers! They're in it with the aliens! They're building landing strips for gay martians!
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
I don't use drugs but I drink lots of alcohol and caffine, especially when writing code. It really fucks you up but it seems to temporarily improve creativity and let you work longer hours. Lately I've been drinking a lot of vodka before coming to work. Makes me perform better. Has the very noticable effect of doubling my productivity.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Interesting article, in that it almost glorifies drug use. Other than the opening paragraph, all it talks about are a bunch of wealthy Gen X'ers out having a great time and getting wasted on the weekends. This is bad, how?
I personally don't do drugs, but I also don't give a damn whether anyone else does either, as long as they keep their drunken/stoned/whatever nonsense at a reasonable distance.. I think that if this article wanted to have any sort of impact on anyone, it maybe should have told the story of someone in the IT industry who, altho brilliant, is now manning some crap win95 phone desk somewhere because of a felony possession charge.
Said person now gets to spend one day a month for the next, oh, 10 years peeing in a cup and telling her PO how much she likes her job.
And, never, ever, will she get a nice, comfy corporate desk job.
i browse at -1 because they're funnier than you are.
WTF??!!
The poster above just told you how content and happy he was in his life and you call that being mediocre? You somehow feel empowered to sit in judgement on his definition of success?? It makes absolutely no difference how much money he makes, how many cars he drives...what in the hell gives you the right to call his life mediocre?
Just what the hell is your problem?
Hush!!
dammit..now everyone's going to want to work here!
Now they all know what John Denver really meant by "Rocky Mountain High"
Speaking as a caffeine addict and infrequent 'wine with formal dinner' drinker:
It strikes me as very strange that hackers would willingly let some chemical burn up their spare brain cycles. I mean, I'll occasionally wake up at four in the morning because I've had a slick code idea, and I want to get it on paper. I've even thought code during the slow parts of sex.
Why would someone who is a professional coder/S.E. or otherwise technophile, willingly give up headspace like that? It's not relaxing (tried pot), it's stupefying, it leaves you in a daze and it makes it hard to concentrate.
Maybe these 'IT professionals' they interviewed were actually full time graphic artists, web designers, or mostly management and marketting people with spare cycles to burn.
Me, I'd rather use idle time than lose it.
If you have to relax that badly, take a nap or read a book.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
The "smoking crack" comments got so bad where I work that we had to negotiate a "crack moratorium" as too many old timers would overhear the comments and start giving us funny looks.
Laugh while you can, monkey boy!
> [i] don't do any drugs except caffeine and alcohol
> I don't because drig make me stupid
you just contradicted yourself
you couldn't code for three days after one joint? talk about a light weight. =)
I don't find the article surprising at all considering the founders of Apple and Bill Gates (not sure about Paul) have used illicit drugs including cannabis (marijuana) and LSD.
:-;
I personally have used cannabis and experimented with LSD. I found for me that low doses of LSD was useful for some tasks (at high doses is totally useless since one can't concentrate nor even grasp reality). Cannabis is primarily good for relaxation; certainly far better and safer than alcohol.
Anyways, I beleive that as society becomes more advanced drug use will become more prevalent (and legally tolerated - ie. Ritalin). Drug use dates back to the beginning of civilization (over 10,000 years) and is just a reality of life.
Lastly, I generally feel drug testing is a bad idea and it's no one's damn business what people do with their bodies as long as they don't hurt others directly. And note that if Microsoft or Apple had drug testing policies in place back when they started, the founders would've FAILED and there would be no MAC and no Windows
Ron Bennett
One of my good friends, who is a CS major, tokes up, drops, eats shrooms, and drinks. Sometimes in a combination. Although, I can't say his habits are ones I want to emulate; but hell, I ain't gonna stop him.
This whole thing reeks of a holy war to me.
Everytime he mails me it's "Hey, man I just smoked/drank/dropped..." and goes from there to soemthing like "drugs rule! You should get high!"
*sarcasm*Yeah, I wanna spend a Saturday evening thinking my wall is a TV, or pent up in a dorm room cuz I can't find the door. I forget some of the other things.
"Normalcy" is a myth that The Man uses to help keep the "status quo". But, I agree, normal is anything but.
But what you have said really should be on a person by person basis. What freaks out one person may not affect another. Has nothing to do with occupation or anything.
Yeah, I'm sure many of you saw The Matrix... how did Neo find the White Rabbit?
could that even stand up in court?
People could just go back and say they were trying to stack the pools in some way and having fun.
someone's user account could also be hacked into, left logged in, etc - so would would ever know if the information was correct?
-Jae
And it takes someone with no balls to post that as an AC as well
-Jae
Most programmers I know that do engage in recreational drug use are more likely to smoke ganja and do psychedelics like shrooms and LSD than use coke or meth.
Maybe this is just true of where I work and live (Boulder, CO), which is known for it's high population of stoners.
Given your .sig works, I think I believe you can do 100 hour coding sessions!!
Being able to ingest more toxins than most people is a pretty pathetic thing to brag about. Is that the best
thing about you, the thing you want everyone to remember?
Some "drugs" are toxins, and others are not. Alchohol is a toxin. LSD is not a toxin. Large doses of Alchohol will kill you. Large doses of LSD will make you crazy, but not kill you outright. Large doses of Marijuana (for the sake of completeness, assume it's ingested as food, and not smoked) is not a toxin.
I am offended at your post because you obviously have not experimented with psychedelic drugs (LSD, psylocibe, etc). I think any hacker who has will agree that the comparison is at least somewhat valid.
People with a strong rational consciousness can handle larger doses of LSD, for example, than those who are not practiced at thinking, those lacking mental discipline. Keeping on top of your mind when it is operating in an usual manner is a rough task, but can be very rewarding.
Excessive use of drugs might turn one into the pants-pooping buffon, deftly piloting MS Bob, but it depends on what "drugs" your talking about. I know plenty of men and women with a good 30+ years of regular drug use who are amongst the brightest, mentally sharp people I've ever met. You can say "imagine what they'd have been without the drugs", but nobody really can know that. If drug use had the effects that you describe, it would mean that there are thousands upon thousands of einstien-level geniuses living today, all of which have crippled themselves by drug use.
I doubt it.
This habit of non-drug-users spouting this kind of crap drives me crazy sometimes.
You have GOT to be kidding. Cocaine DESTROYS lives. I destroys careers. It destroys families. It may not be anywhere near as immediate as an alcohol-induced car wreck, but there's no question about what it does to people. Cocaine does no such thing. People do those things. Believe it or not, there are lots of successful career people, family people, even, who have fairly serious cocaine problems. I know of a very successful company or two that was BUILT ON COCAINE. The builders have since gotten off the awful drug, but their cocaine induced drive at the beginning made them sucessful. This is not an endorsement of cocaine, or any other drug for that matter. My point about the company being "built on cocaine" is meant to contrast symbolic's claim that it DESTROYS lives. Action requires decisions. People make decisions, chemicals don't.
A poll idea? I'm no expert on law, but couldn't that kind of data be potential subpoena material in a court of law? I think we'd see quite a few AC's posting on that subject
Brings a whole new meaning to "someone must have been on crack when they coded this"...
Why doesn't someone make a poll to see how many slashdot readers use recreational drugs?
Interesting.
-Schie
I've met very few UNIX hackers who !smokeweed();
Are your experiences different?
A God-shaped bong?
It always strikes me as interesting that the
people who claim to get `high on life!' have
never smoked weed/hash or other recreational
drugs.
Get a clue: no you haven't. The feeling you
think of as being `high', isn't.
By all means, don't take drugs. Just don't
assume you know what's better for me than I
do, you ignorant motherfucker.
I'd be more worried about drug use amongst teenagers than amongst professional programmers, mind you.
To the editors: your English is as bad as your Perl. Please go back to grade school.
explained Louise.
Now, it said that Louise was a software developer. Am I the only one who thinks that
software development is an activity which requires a lot of imagination and
creativity?
What, is she on crack or something? Oh, wait...
1. Cocaine
2. Crack
3. Marijuana
4. Caffeine
5. All/Most of the above
6. Substance-free
I don't because drugs make me stupid, for days. Last joint I smoked, I could not code for 3 days. I've never tried coke or anything more intense, but from what I see it looks like it kills your attention span. Great coding assistance, that.
That being said, I'm 30 something and not 20 and indestructible.
Do you 20 something people do drugs to Help your skills and abilities? Does it work? (sarcasm).
-- Perl Hack, Web Hack, SQL Hack, Guitar Hack
Its hydroponically grown and about 10 times stronger than the stuff we did when I was growing up.
Its scary shit. I was fucked up after two hits from one joint. I was wasted for a full day and useless for 3. This stuff has crystals of THC on it large enough to see with the naked eye. Remember Ross Robagliati? Thats the stuff that was in his system. Its TOO strong.
Maybe I sound self righteous but really, ANYTHING that impedes my coding ability is just plain stupid.
As for being a light weight, maybe you outta look at your own habits and decide if fucking yourself up with drugs of any sort is makes you a heavy weight.
My use of caffeine and/or alcohol is probably less than most office workers: 3 to 4 cups of starbucks a day, and maybe 3 glasses of beer 1 day a week. That makes me a lightweight for caffeine and alcohol too.
-- Perl Hack, Web Hack, SQL Hack, Guitar Hack
I have known many programmers and other technically minded types that smoke herb when working their trade. Some feel that it makes their work more enjoyable, reduces frustration and makes having patience easier when up against a tough problem. Others just do it because they can do it and still get the job done, and they like the taste or something. MMmmm, stinky..
When I was at UC Berkeley, I ended up staying up all night in the soda hall computer lab often, sometimes 2 or 3 nights in a row. I would frequently have to take breaks to stretch my legs, relax my eyes, have a soda and smoke a joint. It made going back into the lab that much more tolerable, and seemed to keep my eyes from hurting. I would also take a puff or two before my most boring afternoon math class, cause if I didn't, I would either fall asleep or be distracted from boredom all period. A bit stoned, I would simply kick back, relax and watch the teacher -- and learn.
I know many people who have been recreational daily pot smokers for more than 5 years. They are all employed. About half of them have pretty good paying technical positions (the other half are not computer geeks). By my estimation, none of them are noticeably brain damaged. None of them are particularly lazy, unless you think they're lazy because they sit on their asses smoking weed every day -- AFTER working 50 hours a week, maintaining relationships/marriages and generally taking care of business.
IMHO you can't beat a nice large mug of Java coffee or a pint of Murphys, depending on your mood.
What's wrong with avoiding reality just because it feels good to do so?
You're implying that murdering people is wrong. Was this your intent?
What do you need drugs for to listen to Orbital? It sounds just fine to me without them.
:-)
Einsturzende Neubauten, on the other hand, REQUIRES serious painkillers for the average person to listen to -- at least stuff from 80-83. Their stuff from 90 onwards is actually musical.
BTW, Orbital just doesn't fit the Quake theme that much IMHO. The sound of metal bashing against metal works MUCH better.
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
Wow man, that's a classic. ROFL.
From the look of E (the WM), though, I wonder sometimes what those people have been smoking...
Finally, what the hell is this doing at 0? Moderate it back up!!! This is great!
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
I know lots of people who smoke weed, and are very good programmers/Administrators..etc(and for that matter doctors, lawyers, congressmen, presidents...)There is no proof that Marijuana causes permanent brain damage. And my educated opinion is that alcohol is far more dangerous than pot.
Although this is probably not the right place to demonstrate why I feel marijuana should be legal, your statement is off-base. Sure, I will agree, lots of pothead conversations go similarly to that, but have you ever sat down and listened to a bunch of drunks chit-chatting? It isn't much (if any) better.
Also, someone mentioned BSD users who they've met that smoke pot, I'd bet a dime to a dollar at least some of the BSD creators did it, too. After all, Berkeley is most known for its pot smoking, acid dropping hippy culture, isn't it?
Once I thought I was wrong...I was mistaken.
Programmers don't go gettin wasted in the US like in Europe. Damn Europeans are so wacky!
Corndog
The article was in The Independent, the most pro-recreational drug broadsheet in the UK. (Recently they ran a lengthy, high profile campaign for the legalisation of canabis.) So I'd be wary of classing the article as "...typical anti-drug FUD".
Granted, the article was a bit wishy-washy, with some sketchy evidence from a doctor regarding giving monkeys four doses of ecstacy.
But on the whole I think the article raised a valid issue - for the UK. My experience as a programmer in a lively town in the UK bears testomony to what the article has to say.
I think the situation in the US and elsewhere is different, but the UK has a thriving mainstream drug culture.
Use of canabis in IT jobs here is common place, sure, but the use of "class A's" is prevailant too. Mainly practiced at weekends by recent graduates.
As for myself, I'm growing tired of most of that now, and look for more healthy ways to get my kicks. But I've still had many cases of "presenteeism" in my time!
Swamp
Let's not leave that out.
--
Okay, I got Linux installed. So where's the free beer everyone keeps talking about??
My brother did a paper in organic chemistry waayyyyy back when. I, of course, forget the nitty-gritty of it, but the basic gist of it was that gram for gram, caffeine is worse than cocaine.
--
Okay, I got Linux installed. So where's the free beer everyone keeps talking about??
weed knocks me completly out. I can't even sit down at the computer. It sure is fun though. Weed is the perfect drug, except for the fact that you get extremly hungry and thirsty. Other than that, what could be better.
The problem with this article is that it reviews industry drug use in one area and attempts to make a generalization across the entire industry.
I'm a computer programmer in Santa Cruz. Surprising fact: about half of the programmers I know here smoke marijuana, use hallucinogens, or both. But that's not a good sample for the industry as a whole; it's too tied up in the side-effects of our local culture.
Same for the UK. It's not possible, yet, to make industry-wide generalizations --- we're too young an industry, and in some sense, too rooted in whatever area we call home, for that to work.
Quake I: My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult, KMFDM, Ministry. Quake II: Well, I put in my Superstar DJ Keoki CD, but really, any Hip-Hop/Techno will do.
Uh, Drugs're bad, 'mkay?
I triied to fill it with Alcohol.
I triied to fill it with sex!
I tried really hard to fill it with sex!
I triied to fill it with Cocaine and heroin and everything you can think of!
(chorus amen!)
But then something appeared to me:
(chorus Preach on, brother!)
The caterpillar D-9 Bulldozer!
(chorus Praise Caterpillah!)
From Snow Crash: "Wait a second. Is this thing a drug, a language, or a religion?" "What's the difference?"
Remember Sangamon's Principle.
yeah, that was the first thing I felt... what a waste. *sigh*
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
Agreed.
Finally some level-headed talk...this the-man-is-trying-to-cramp-our-great-toking-it's-r eally-not-bad-for-you bs was getting pretty deep...
Biology...look into it. It blows my mind how many times I've had conversations with people who honestly believe that none of these drugs do anything adverse to your body. Whew...ignorance...a scary thing.
I like to go walk outdoors on a sunny day, smoke a coupla joints and watch clouds as they go. I don't think that any police- or other man has rigth to say to me that smoking this natural product that grows in trees (bushes, actually) is not rigth.
Cannabis, on earth, has been used for thousands of years. It was criminalized in the 20th century because of _commercial_ reasons. Ever since then very little reliable research material has been let out. Just some time ago publishing of one WHO (not the band) report that stated that cannabis is much less dangerous for humans than tobacco and alcohol, was delayed for ~6 months for reasons I don't know of.
But things are opening up. Ganja smoking is legal in the Netherlands. Germany has somewhat loose policy on it (possession of small quantities is not punished). In Switzerland you can buy it from florists. Sooner or later, I hope, majority of people will realize that they have taken the official lie as a truth for decades.
And, by the way, that Quake you said you were so keen to is considered harmful. It takes control of your mind, reprograms you and makes you a one man nazi death squad. Be careful. Also, role-playing games are very dangerous. They turn you into a satans servant. At least thats what I heard. =)
what the hell is an "IT programmer"? I though IT is kinda separate from actual programming.
plus, how did he get an F1 McLaren? I am not sure if those are street-legal. at least in usa. a lot of sport/special edition cars do not fit the legal bill.
I was thinking of how to intentionally fail my drug test... It would make a good memoir story someday.
I understand the desire to mellow out after a really tough week but I'd rather go without the drugs. Don't think pot affects you much cause it's natural? Hang with a person who has been a daily user for 4-5 years and tell me it doesn't do long term damage to your brain, aside from being perpetually lazy...
I guess each person has his own taste and moral standard and drug use may be "right" for some people but I'm convinced that it takes a toll after enough use, if nothing else you condition your mind and body to need the drugs to relax or need them to work long hours. Just like caffine usage, after a while you can't get out of bed unless there is a ready pot of coffee.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
In boulder, if you sell smack, they will send you to prison for life but if you sell pot or mushrooms you just have to be quite and give the cops a price break... and nobody will ever give you a hard time. On the hill there are some dealers who even put signs up (you know how it works if you've been there, back on pleasant street where the deals go down you can often see a vintage bus with a "kind bud" sign in the back window... )
Also, Boulder was a radical place in the 1960's, it was totally a hippy town. I've been approached at work (the largest employer in Boulder... I won't say any more being as how we're talking about drugs) by 40 year old babyboomers who wanted me to hook them up before.. I'm not really even a user but since I'm younger they expected me to be able to get them some good stuff without having to risk a bad deal. In a lot of towns, pot is something you just sort of grow out of once you get out of college but in Boulder a lot of older people are still users.
From my own perspective, and while I know a lot about the drug culture in Boulder I'm not really a user, pot users are recreational drug users. You work a long hard day writing code and you want to come home and relax so you smoke a bowl and chill out. Coke, meth, ice, etc. users generally aren't rec. users. There are definitley some people who like to snort some coke from time to time just for fun but the industrial programmer types aren't them. I think it is much more habitual usage. If you're a programmer I can't think of any reason why you'd want to sniff coke except to stay up and stay alert for coding, after work I would much rather mellow out with some pot, but that' just me.
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
Not sure if they've got a reference for this
particular thing(and all that pot has made me too
lazy to look...), but they do have lots of good
info on the subject...
www.norml.org
If you use drugs, if you're thinking of using drugs, if you don't use drugs, you need to read "Infinite Jest," by David Foster Wallace. No matter whether you feel smug about not using drugs or if you think you can smoke pot with no problem, this book will show you that it ain't that simple.
While I entirely agree with what you're saying about dope (There is no good reason, apart from political, for it not being legalised, especially for medical purposes), I think you're straying somewhat. The article, for the most part, isn't about weed. It's about coke, speed, E's etc.
While I agree that the dangers of these drugs are far less severe than the general public believe, I think saying that they are on a level with dope is dangerous. People (though admittedly quite few) do die as a direct result of taking charlie, but no one has ever died, or indeed severely injured themselves, as a direct result of taking weed.
In case you are wondering, here's my personal drug policy: I drink, and I smoke weed, though preferably without tobaco. I do not smoke cigarettes,since a)I believe them to be more damaging than alcohol or weed, and b)I can't stand the smell it leaves behind. While I don't take speed or E's, this is purely personal choice, rather than because I'm particularly scared of them being dangerous. I enjoy clubbing, especially house clubs, and it seems to me that taking drugs makes you less aware of what's going on around you, and I believe I would enjoy the music less. This idea comes from being clubbing with friends, some of which are on drugs, and some of which aren't.
I believe people should have a free, informed choice about how they use their bodies, and I think that putting coke, E's & speed on the same level as cannabis doesn't help inform people about the (potential) real dangers of drugs.
-Will
wow. i don't do drugs and never have; i guess i'm one of those "high on life" dorks about which you're all speaking. but i really gotta laugh at the self-righteous athletic scumfucks who can't get over the fact that they've got the Straight Edge and some people don't.
i just figured you should know i'm thinking of you in Spandex shorts and a tight t-shirt, leaned over a Nautilus in your basement. and i'm laughing. and you're not.
Cretin - a powerful and flexible CD reencoder
Marijuana : a special report from New Scientist (Mar 1999)
What's your poison: an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp.) documentry series (from the Quantum show) comparing Nicotine, Caffeine, Alcohol, Marijuana and Ecstasy. (Apr 1997)
I think there's definitely a connection.
It's about prying out of the box you're in and changing things at a fundamental level that's not possible for the average computer user on one hand, and the non-drug user on the other. On your linux box, you delve into the source and tweak a feature that always bugged you. Or when you swallow some quality E or a couple hits of acid, you enter a new universe that breaks all the rules by which your average Joe is forced to play.
(And for everyone that's convinced that they can get just as intense an experience without using drugs: you are, quite simply, and with no respect for pros and cons, wrong.)
adum
As an alcoholic who has experience with most of the drugs listed out here, I have to ask anyone who uses on weekends to stop and think.
In my meetings with fellow addicts everyone at one time was a casual user or a social drinker. The thing about intoxicants is their effects mask the problems that are being caused by them.
I believe the drug laws in the United States are insane and contradictory; by and large they should be found unconstitutional. I also know that huge problems are caused by their use.
coding 12 to 14 hours a day indicates a compulsive personality.
My parents smoke... tobacco! I hate it. They can't stop. They *say* they want to. I don't think they have choice. If you use drugs, do you have a choice? Could you quit, lets say now for a week? a month? I ask this question several times so you can think this out. Contradict yourself. Question yourself. I leave this as an excercise for the reader (I love this phrase!).
I don't use vitamins. Why? Do I need it? I hope not. And I don't want to in the future. What if I do? What if in 15 years everyone uses Brain-O-Matic drugs. Makes you smarter. Everyone will use it to be more productive. Business will standardize on it. Do I want that? NO. And I'm not gonna start by taking a simple vitamin now. I'll tell you what I will take: banannas, tomatos, steak, eggs, fruits and vegetables.
Quite frankly, I don't want to be controlled. I like to control. Now look what you got yourself into.
Drugs are bad.
--
The article makes a glaring mistake. They make note of the statistical correlation between drug use - and then they incorrectly state that the drugs must have caused the depression.
This is a bogus inference, unfortunately the majority of the public is not well educated enough to spot it.
There IS a well-known, well-documented link between depression and drug abuse - but it's a classic "chicken and egg" situation - one can just as easily say that people who are already depressed are more likely to go out and take drugs, to feel better. No self-respecting scientist would claim that either case is true - nobody really knows. Man's knowledge of clinical depression, the most common mental illness (which affects up to 20% of people), is still horribly inadequate.
Anyone out there who may be interested in finding out a bit more about clinical depression may want to check out my homepage. (I'm a depressive myself, but I don't do drugs.)
The government isn't saying "all drugs are bad" .. they're saying "all drugs except the ones that heavily feed our economy such as nicotine and alcohol are bad".
Funny cartoon related to this at http://www.perkel.com/politics/issu es/smoke.htm. BTW, anyone here thinking of starting smoking, go read that page first. Some useful info there.
The government isn't saying "all drugs are bad" .. they're saying "all drugs except the ones that heavily feed our economy such as nicotine and alcohol are bad".
Funny cartoon related to this at http://www.perkel.com/politics/issu es/smoke.htm. BTW, anyone here thinking of starting smoking, go read that page first. Some useful info there.
A couple months ago I was hanging out in West LA and met a software designer who apparently worked for a hardware company (go figure). After arguing at length (in the middle of a crowded park) over the importance of microtubules in cells, the stranger began to expound his personal theories on me. He said that Shakespeare was not William and he actually knew who the real Shakespeare was, which sounded like an original idea (since then I've learned that others share his view), and then told me that no civilization would ever have developed without the influence of mind-altering drugs. Alcohol is certainly the necessary drug in America. Alcohol is prohibited under Islam, but he claaims that in Saudi Arabia hashish has the same role (he said drinking alcohol was a capital offense in S.A., which I later learned isn't true.) And Americans smoked pot long before Euros arrived. I'm not sure about China (it had opium, but it wasn't really cultivated until the British arrived), and I'm sure there are many other disproofs. Anyways, he said he'd publish his thoughts in a book one day - I have a feeling it will be quite a long book!
PS: I don't believe any of this. But it's an interesting idea. I personally am disinclined towards any mind-altering substance, including alcohol, nicotine and caffeine, but I suppose I can't really avoid those pesky endorphins (maybe by sitting at the computer all day?).
Glad to see you kicked the habit. That NT stuff can really whack out your brain.
--
--
Think Green... Burn only 100% recycled dinosaurs in you car.
Goodness, that was rather uncalled for. I merely criticized his method. All arguing about the issue of drugs aside, I thought his post was inflamatory and offensive. It pales next to your diatribe, however:
Oh, great, you're an hysterical anti-smoking puritan
Which of my words were you responding to? What did I say to make you think I even argue against smoking? I merely criticized his unqualified dismissal of the other side (It seems to me he also criticizes unqualified opinions).
BTW, Do you argue that there are no dangers to smoking? Do you dare claim that smoking does not cause lung cancer, emphisema, and other miseries? I know people who are dying of these things, and the fact is that they would probably not be if they had not smoked for so much of their lives.
You're a willing (in fact enthusiastic) slave. Congratulations. I'm sure you're proud of that achievement. It's all you'll ever achieve, so you may as well enjoy what you've got.
I struggle to understand what I could have possibly said to provoke this. The only answer I can think of on my own is that I stepped on an open nerve, or happened upon someone who was extremely defensive. This must be what they call flame. I can understand why many people hesitate to post comments on slashdot.
I am open to criticism, and I welcome your response to this. Try to be reasonable though; I've done my best.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
In your rather inflamatory satire you dismiss the opinions of those who argue the dangers of drugs with nothing more than mockery.
:)
Further, to say that having not 'experienced' drugs disqualifies these arguements is tantamount to dismissing the dangers of smoking or drinking and driving by claiming that those who recognize them have never smoked or driven drunk.
My apolgies for spelling errors (When do we get real-time spell-checking?
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Please post a reference for this.
Of course, the couch lock that comes from overripe stuff is not terribly conducive to coding. Weed is far from standardized, and genetics and growing/harvesting practices can make a major difference in the effects of the buzz.
OTOH, this could have been an example of "state-dependent memory". I dunno.
/. -- the Free Republic of technology.
Ok, so in the last week we have established:
:)
1. American programmers are lazy 9-to-5 slackers.
2. UK programmers are addicted to drugs.
I guess articles about IT professionals who do a good job and go home to dinner with their spouses and children don't generate many hits.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
Those sound like the words of a man who has never smoked dust! Mmmmmm.... dust.
Strange. Most of the geeks I know who do drugs are more into acid than anything else. It's very interesting that the report didn't mention acid .. most recreational meth/E users I know also drop a lot of acid.
From my personal experience, I wouldn't choose to be stoned or drunk while writing code. Though ganja gives me a great creative boost, sitting down and hammering out the logic doesn't last very long before I'm distracted. (I could see how debugging would be made easier, though,as some others have mentioned.) As I work for the family business, the paranoia factor of being high at work would be too great anyway!
As far as alcohol is concerned, it would have little or no effect--up to a point. Much like my pool game.
I never got into speed or coke much, but I could see where some coders would find them useful--though I think the crash wouldn't be worth it.
I certainly can't imagine doing anything in front of the computer on acid!
I think what it boils down to is that everyone has their limits and should know when and where to cross them--it's certainly not up to any judgemental, holier-than-thou busybodies who think they know what's best for us!
Cheers!
[ insert your own witty .sig here ]
methinks you missed the satire...
[ insert your own witty .sig here ]
Well if marijuana (sp?) was legal, none of that would be a problem, yes? They'd grow it on their farms. Same for meth maybe. Anyway, by that argument we should ban plastics, cars, power stations...
Not a drug user, christ I barely even drink...
IMHO:
pot && !harmful && relaxing && fun;
alcohol && !harmful && relaxing if !stupid;
psychadelics && !harmful && mind-expanding;
cocaine && empty_wallet && habit-forming;
crack && cheap && dangerous;
heroin && die "Slowly and Painfully";
meth && fry-brains && habit-forming;
drug_laws && extremely_stupid;
(programmers || sysadmins) && !harmful_drugs && more_sane;
I'm a little surprised that no one's mentioned the other side of the equation -- nootropics (drugs that make you smarter). No one out there on Piracetam, Cognitex, Pregnenolone, Ergoloid Mesylates? Poor children! Come up to where the clear heads are, or just visit http://www.ceri.com (Cognitive Enhancement Research Institute) as a starting place (not affilfited with me, I regret).
---- "When I grow up, I'll know far less"
Now speaking of Enlightenment ...
Grunt. Oink, oink.
...cause IMHO drugs are tools they can be used and abused. and humans are tool using animals so whats the big deal?
nmarshall
#include STD_DISCLAMER.H
R.U. SIRIUS: THE ONLY POSSIBLE RESPONSE
nmarshall
The law is that which it boldly asserted and plausibly maintained..
--Colonel Burr 1783
I can't tell if you are stupid or just ingnorant. More than likely just ingnorant (yes there is a difference). I hate to sterotype you but since you just regurtitated every stereotype about drugs you have ever heard (which I might add is meaningless propaganda half the time). This does not surprise me in the least bit since you obivously don't have the ability to think for yourself. Drugs are not an inherent evil, they do not automatically make you brain turn into sludge the moment you take them. A tool is only what you make of it and by itself it is inert, drugs are a tool, for construction or destuction is always up to the user. Drugs can be used to enlight your mind and view problems in a completely new prospective. Not long ago idiotic media re-spewing trash such as yourself used to piss me off, but now I just remind myself that these statements are made by somone who has no conept of what they are talking about and can only go by what the media puts in their scrawny little mind. Computers never made more sense to me than when i was 16 years old, I sat down in front of a computer screen on 5 hits of really good cid and went "Yeah..... It all makes since now".
root@localbrain root>ps ax |grep thoughtd
Yes we have yet another person who claims to know what the hell they are talking about when they have no idea. I get so sick of the "I never smoked it but I have enough information make an assumption about something I know nothing about". That is like someone saying, "I have never written in PEARL but I looked at some source code once and PEARL sucks". Lets just chalk this loser up to the "I can't think for myself so I will just believe whatever T.V. tells me" campaign. You may hate PotHeads but us PotHeads hate idiots like you.
root@localbrain root>ps ax |grep thoughtd
They're after me for... um... reading /. ...
/. may be classified a thing of substance that must be controlled.
Next thing we know
-Shut ut Pinky!
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
I am a Nothinghead and I'm OK...
Thank Vonnegut for your education. There's little time before the last candle burns out.
(We already lost Burroughs)
btw check out www.c3f.com
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
it may just be me (i do live in berkeley, after all), but are there ANY sane coders who DON'T smoke weed? i mean, i've known a few programmers who smoke crack (seriously) and more than a few that do coke, but every last one of them was a weed smoker too.
anyone who says you can't code while stoned obviously doesn't smoke enough buds!
Personally, I can't breath for 3 days after smoking a joint. I cough up blood for about a week after anything involving knives.
Please learn something about marijuana from objective sources. If you do, you'll find out it isn't nearly as bad as you think. It does _not_ cause brain damage, in fact, in cases of head trauma it aids in the protection of brain cells. It has many medicinal uses. While it's true that many losers use pot, the pot didn't make them losers. Marijuana is far less dangerous than any psychoactive drug out there, especially alcohol, and there are reasons why it's illegal that you could realize with some research. Weed just helps you relax, be more creative, and have a good time. No one has ever died from marijuana, and it certainly isn't a toxin, not is it physically addictive (except in cases of extreme abuse). There are about 10 million Americans who smoke marijuana, and you'd be suprised to learn about all the successful people who do.
-- insomniac --
Oh yeah, another thing is you'll find that while programming is harder under the influence, it can help you think of tremendous amount of ideas for your programs and different ways to do things.
-- insomniac --
What's tomorrow's date again? I can't remember.
-- insomniac --
Don't remember the exact URL, but here's a similar study: http://www.commonlink.com/~olsen/NORML/WEEKLY/98-1 0-08.html
-- insomniac --
And alcohol isn't a drug? It's *far* more dangerous than marijuana. I'm not criticizing your drinking, but trying to emphasize that there is no reason marijuana and alcohol shouldn't both be considered drugs.
-- insomniac --
How about "Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do," by Peter McWilliams. Then take a look at what the freest government in the world decided to do when it didn't like what he wasy saying.
-- insomniac --
Well it won't be relaxing for everyone. If you try it and are thinking it'll be bad, you probably won't like it. It actually helps some people concentrate better in low doses. But I don't see how you don't understand why people would let a "chemical burn up their spare brain cycles." It's just something fun to do, as are many things that aren't very productive. Most drugs don't kill brain cells. You're right though, I usually can't code while high, but I'm fine when the high is over, and usually come away with some great ideas that I can use.
-- insomniac --
Never said they do, just that in cases of head trauma, it can help prevent further worsening of the condition and increase the patient's chance of coming out alive.
-- insomniac --
i find it hard to believe that the same people who are SO concerned about "the man" having power over the operation of yr computers are perfectly willing to stand and watch, or even advocate, sending people TO JAIL for how they choose to regulate their biochemistry. these people are yr peers, possibly even yr friends and are being locked up for choices which should be personal, not made the whatever senile senator decides is right. maybe instead of frothing at the mouth everytime you think of proprietary software, you should work to help keep innocent otherwise upstanding citizens out of prison.
maybe some of you should choose yr battles more wisely and decide which is more important, you operating system or yr fellow man. as long as there have been civilizations there has been drug use. prohibition doesnt work and stiffer penalties merely compound the problem.
^^^=tHE mARK oF tHE bEAST
hehehe .. amen brother! God bless you!
... just that much of the "just say no"
aside from stress and age, another reason
drug use could be high in tech is that tech
people think independently and reject much
of the govt BS about drugs and am willing
to 'experiment'. I'm not saying drugs are
safe
stuff has no real science behind it.
-Lin
My employer tests at start of employment. When ...
I was told of this, I told HR what an stupid policy this was (esp. in San Francisco) and ineffective drug tests were. The HR lady
dropped her jaw when I admitted to being a pot
smoker. I was still able to pass the stupid
pee test
I figured he killed himself on a race track.
I don't know this car, but F1 used to mean Formula 1. These can never be street legal. But I guess this is maybe an other type-o-car.
And, yeah, what the hell is an "IT programmer"??
Breace.
What a load of crap, this is all about freedom of choice. Which is limited in the US because of non-tolerant supremacists like you.
Compare to Netherlands:
US: Guns legal
NL: Marihuana legal
Make your choice. Who is likely to do you more harm, the guy with the gun or the guy with the pot?
Anyways, I don't want _anybody_ to tell me that I can't do xyz if I don't harm anyone else with it. Even if it harms myself, that's MY CHOICE. And I don't need to listen to other monkey-supremacists on this planet that seem to think they know things better then me.
The sad thing is, in the US the monkeys may throw you in jail if you behave like that....
Btw. Are you that idiot neighbor that's playing that 'Viva La Woman' crap way too loud all the time? I guess I have to delete you know huh?
Breace. And NO, I don't use any drugs but alcohol.
how about a new poll? i do: ( )hard drugs (coke, acid, ecstacy etc.) ( )soft drugs (marijuana) ( )alcohol ( )none of the above ( )all of the above
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
doh, should've done preview...
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
hehe, true, i drop a lot of acid and i also use ecstacy, and occasionally i mix 'em and candyflip...this isn't a daily thing its just a weekend have fun thing...i don't harm anyone, and i don't see a problem in it. i wish drugs were legal it would be so much easier and less people would die over it...oh well.
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
you forgot ecstacy, special k, angel dust, acid....
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
thats just trees, they leave you with a burnt stupid feeling for days....i hate it...
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
good site
"The world only exists in your eyes. You can make it as big or as small as you want." - F Scott Fitzgerald
heh
Ok so programmers use drugs. Or is it more likely that young programmers use drugs? Think about it for a minute - most companies hire fresh talent and fresh talent is usually under 30. Well what age bracket uses the most drugs? People under 30. It's not all that complicated.
With all the stresses envolved in IT this should come as no surprise.
I could see caffine and nicotine being the top ones on a poll. There's quite a bit of drug use at university, but I can't see too many people continuing after. I mean, why risk years of work to get a degree that would be worthless with a criminal record?
The article is about drug users who program, not programmers who use drugs. It sounds like a subtle point, but look where they collected their stories: London clubs, not London offices.
But anything that shows how geeks are shady characters sell, so next week expect an in-depth expose of programmers and pornography... conducted at the local sex toys store.
BTW, did anyone else wonder if the programmers interviewed weren't just pulling the reporter's leg to see how far it would go? "Do I use drugs?"
"Sure! Heroin helps me write code faster!"
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Without getting into the question of whether THC is worse than caffeine, I find your pseudocode disturbing.
:-) Store reopened only after middle-aged yuppies in town threatened a public demonstration/riot in support of store. The teenager driver facing a "drunk driving" charge because the state's "zero tolerance" policy towards alcohol makes no exemption for NyQuil. Another 12,341,861 examples available in your local newspaper.)
You didn't test for someone incapacitated by pot; you test for someone who tests positive for pot at *any* time. It apparently doesn't matter to you whether they smoked the joint before the big presentation to clients... or they simply attended the "wrong" concert with the "wrong" crowd over the weekend. (Or they ate too many poppy seed bagels too close to a random drug test....)
You didn't offer to help the person overcome any drug abuse problem, you simply wiped them out. Deleted them. Hell, if you used C syntax, I'm sure you would have kill'd them.
*sigh* I guess it's time to write another check to the Drug Policy Foundation. I don't have an opinion on whether drugs are dangerous... but I have absolutely no doubt that your attitude *is* dangerous. The focus should be on abusers (especially since no drug test is 100% reliable) and the emphasis should be on helping them stop. Or do you also fire social drinkers?
(Insert obligatory pointer to drug policy run amok. The popular local sub shop closed down because one employee received *payment* for 'shrooms at work, without knowledge or consent of employer. Even the narcs admitted that no drugs were ever in the store. (Ahem. In this particular case.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Same in New York. Especially us mac types... I need my bong hits at the end of the day(MAC is spelled S-T-R-E-S-S). BTW, is it bad to toke a few bong loads at least once a day? According to everything I've seen so far, no. I just got a raise, and as far as I can tell, nobody I work with even has an inkling of my smoking. Even if they did, fuck em. There's always a job for a programmer, always.
OS of choice: linux (slack)
OS of necessity: win98 (MOUNT ME, MY HD IS SHARED!:)... I guess Im still too hooked on games.
Tom
PS> Any of you guys EVER hear of Subspace before?
If you think drugs are OK for anyone you haven't done your homework. Or you were too stoned to remember how to do your homework. I participated in DEA mission (voluntarily, to get away from my girlfriend:) some years back where I was to help find marajuana in the national forest. Farmers grow it in the national forests so if they get caught they won't lose their homes or other property. They booby-trap the area surrounding their fields, usually with just niose makers (shotgun shells pointed up) to scare people off, somtimes with more malicious means (breeding rats and keeping them trapped in barrels, starving so they will attack when released). My examples are by no means an exhaustive list of techniques used to protect 'farms' on public lands. These are obviously a danger to hikers, campers, nature lovers including the unknowing granola who stumbles onto these traps. The danger doesn't end there. The man we suspected of running this farm drove a new ram truck, paid for in cash. He lived in a 1mil. cabin, paid for in cash. He grossed an estimated 4mil a year on his pot he grew on public lands. He operated no less than two meth labs somewhere in the forest, dumping the chemicals he used for those labs where ever, poisoning the soil, contaminating the groundwater, killing local wild life, and the red phospherous was know to cause several forrest fires. He was also on wellfare. If you think drugs, pot, or the counter culture doesn't affect you, get some fresh air.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
What? Why would we ban plastics cars etc? If your argument is damage to the environment - then you convieniently disregarded the first half of my post. Try not to be selective of the information you choose to argue.
And as far as if it were legal... it's not so what's your point?
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
No permanent damage... Where do pot heads get their information? Pot when smoked inhibits short term memory (so much for creative enhancement effect). In order to get information into long term memory you have to go through short term memory. New England Journal of Science years ago proved that continuous exposer to the effects of pot smoking permanently affects short term memory. If you need more information than that find the websites that deal with memory, retention, how we learn and the electro-chemical balance that improves memory and (if your not stoned or refuse to believe in silly things like research) you will begin to comprehend the pure lunacy of the statement "pot doesn't do permanent damage".
Nothing is fool proof to a determined fool.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
If you think drugs are OK for anyone you haven't done your homework ... If you think drugs, pot, or the counter culture doesn't affect you, get some fresh air.
OK - I'm refering to my first post. Maybe you don't hurt people when you smoke pot, but other people do. If you want to decriminalize it, then do so. So far, the majority of this country doesn't want to legalize pot. They want people who use pot to be punished. They don't want people to drive over the speed limit either, a law I don't understand nor agree with but one I abide by most of the time. When I do speed it is usually not intentional, and if I get caught I'm punished. Such is the way of our country, if a large enough majority wanted to blow up LA, it would happen. You have to live with all the other people in this country, and just because you don't agree with their view point doesn't mean you can ignor the law of our land. Don't like it? Move to Canada. Don't want to move? Change the law. Until one of those two things happen, look at this subject with some perspective, get all the facts, and quit trying to claim that it shouldn't be illegal because it is. Drugs and the counter culture cost public money, lives, and endanger the public. Those are facts. "but those peoples activities cause people to do harmful things to hide their illegal activity!" THEN WHY DO THE ACTIVITY IF IT WILL CAUSE YOU TO DO ILLEGAL OR HARMFUL THINGS DIPSHIT? Sorry about the shouting, but the ends do not justify your "right" to a good time.
It is completely ridiculous to argue that because people do harmful things in order to hide their illegal activities from the law, those activities should be illegal. ** Irrational. What's ridiculous is doing things that you know are against the law and then acting indignant when you are prosecuted for it. Look - I'm all for the freedom to be as stupid as you want to be. Just don't try to blame your crimes (I'm speaking of the harm drug growers, dealers, users cause in one form or another - and don't get all upset becuase I'm generalizing, realize that the drug culture has earned it's bad reputation) on an injust system.
Drugs are linked to criminal behavior because it is criminalised. Duh again. Pedofiles are linked to criminal behavior because pedofilia is criminalised. Murder, tax evasion, theft, vandalism, peeping, indecent exposer, public drunkeness, insert any crime in place of drugs and that statement is true. That's like arguing the sky is blue because it's the color blue. Some laws have a good reason for being in place, some don't. You never had the right to pick which ones you think are important, but you do have the right to try to change them.
Using the pot culture Philosophy of "It doesn't hurt anyone" "why does it matter to you" or "all the evil caused by drugs is a result of unjust law" is bullshit pure and simple. It fits nicely into your world that is quiet, and doesn't seem to harm anyone, but when you look at the social, economic, cultural, and political problems associated with drugs you might find yourself wide eyed with an unreal sense of 'what the hell am I doing'. I was a pot head for years. I went to rallies, smoke outs, even grew my own once. It wasn't until I saw where most of the pot comes from that I realised it is a problem. And the more you learn about cartel's, gangs, and governments, the more you understand about how big a problem drugs are. The only reason alcohol is accepted is that it has been a staple in most every culture for thousands of years. We know the evils of it but won't stop it because of tradition. Other drugs do not have that luxurie, and never will.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
So _that's_ what was in the 'heart-shaped-box'.
cool...
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
I personally would be a little more concerned with the heavy drinking programmers (and sysadmins). I know quite a few pothead programmers and alcoholic sysadmins. The raver crowd tends to burn out too quick, IMHO.
Or, put another way, is this a fad??
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
It is terrible, here in the US, an adult can be
put in prison for consuming a vegetable.
I can go into my backyard and find probably a dozen or so vegetables, that if consumed, will put me in the hospital. I might even find a few that would put me in the morgue. I would be hard pressed to find a vegetable that would put me in prison, without the help of police that is.
Hypocrites!!!
you're silly
drug use != drug abuse
i'm not even gonna mention what i've done. . but none of it has affected me adversly.
it's all about not being an idiot, and having SOME sense when you choose what to do.
you're right, potheads are bad. however, (person->smokesweed() => person==pothead) is false (man, you got me talking in code again)
i'm not advocating drug use as such, just intelligence when talking about it.
Here in Silicon Valley, JOLT and coffee bars
are very much the thing. There's almost a
STARBUCKS every couple blocks and the BURGER
KING in Palo Alto has an expresso bar.
bunch of wealthy Gen X'ers out having a great time and getting wasted on the weekends. This is bad, how?
+ +
Lets just say when they drink & drive or are too stoned to drive and do so anyway forcing some sad mishap costing someone elses life... but hey their wealthy gen X'ers right? That comment was smart.
I personally don't do drugs, but I also don't give a damn whether anyone else does either, as long as they keep their drunken/stoned/whatever nonsense at a reasonable distance..
NIMBY response... Do you pay taxes? How about when these people are too cracked out to get a job and go on welfare? Or break into your home?
I think that if this article wanted to have any sort of impact on anyone, it maybe should have told the story of someone in the IT industry who, altho brilliant, is now manning some crap win95 phone desk somewhere because of a felony possession charge. Said person now gets to spend one day a month for the next, oh, 10 years peeing in a cup and telling her PO how much she likes her job.
Although I agree the article was a bit humorous and bullsh!t at most. Somehow people should start taking a more serious approach to these issues. I've worked in the ad industry and have seen people beyond incapacitated off of drugs, and it isn't a very pretty site, nor is it comfortable working with someone in that state. Who cares? I care if it means that somehow it will affect me and my work habits/routines.
And, never, ever, will she get a nice, comfy corporate desk job.
You should rethink this also... What happens when the person is an owner or CEO... Do you honestly believe he/she/heshe/herhim is going anywhere?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No enterprise is more likely to succeed than one concealed
from the enemy until it is ripe for execution.
-- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince, 1521
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for the memories