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Protest over LinuxWorld Penguins
Here is some more info about the live penguins which appeared at Linux World. Some participants complained about the penguins' small cage and stress due to the number of people around.
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So a six year old kid living in a war zone is someone I need to worry about less than two well fed pets? I don't know if I buy that. PETA has little regard for humans(as exhibited by PETA protestors making kids cry - see the washington post a few years ago) and too much concern for animals(a friend of mine worked for a circus, PETA protested at some of their shows, saying animals were mistreated, yet nothing bad ever happened to said animals). Admittedly, this is a sweeping generalization, but I think most protestors in the US today need to get a grip and worry about the important things. Homelessness, world hunger, disease, and man's inhumanity to man all pop to mind. Saving the pets that don't need saving seems a little trite.
itachi
I've heard we taste like chicken... Other than the cultural taboos, I personally don't see why we shouldn't. Solve overpopulation and unwanted children in one foul swoop without upsetting the right-to-life crowd. Planned parenthood could set up some deal where you can trade you kid to a farmer rather than getting an abortion, then the farmer fattens them up for market. This would work great!
itachi
I saw a show on the Discovery channel recently that POSITIVELY showed that penguins are nervous about people when first around them. After only one week of exposure to people, they didn't care about people at all. This was in context to WILD penguins, in their breeding area. These penguins have obviously been around people for quite some time, so PETA really needs to get a clue. Before being slavering mouthed advocates of "saving the animals", find out your facts first. I'd take a stressed out penguin over a stupid PETA, er, I mean person, any day of the week.
The original poster forgot the line where they mention that the PETA-ites worry about the feelings of the animals to the exclusion of worrying about people. Which is the point of the argument, it just sort of got mislaid. And _that_ is a serious flaw in the behavior of said PETA-ites. Please don't argue that PETA-ites don't do this, many do, I'd even say most do. At least with important things. I mean, how many times have you heard of the ambassador of (country of the day for attrocities) got red paint thrown on them? How else could there be such a loud drone of AR protest while so much desperately needed human rights protest never happens?
itachi
...he's not wearing a red hat. :)
(I can't BELIEVE I was the first to get that one in.)
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
at the outpouring of heartless indifference so common in the Slashdot community. Anyone critical of your fun is a PETA nut or meddling do gooder, it would seem.
At this website, the symbol of the penguin represents not Linux, but rather what a cold bunch you are. Sadly, the only warmth found at Slashdot is generated by the myraid, pointless flamewars.
The music is not in the piano -Clement Mok
PETA has gone too far.
Pork is not a verb
HEY! Don't give Katz any ideas, its enough that we have deal with Roblimo lately... I never thought I would say this, but /. is going down the toilet lately...
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
This is what we Philosophers like to call, in technical terms, a "Bullshit Argument." I'm not intending to sigle out just this poseter, but there are a lot of similar posts to this story.
What people are saying: The suffering of animals is bad. They are trying to prevent this suffering and in this case they saw penguins (wild, aquatic birds), being kept in small cages and paraded about to large audiences. I think that this is a valid point.
What people DID NOT say: That this was more important than other atrocities in the world. I would imagine that if 1000 Rawandan's were hacked to death AT THE EXPO, people would sure have raised a stink.
Ethical issues are not trumped by other unrelated ethical issues. Murder is worse than child abuse, that does not mean that we should ignore child abuse to focus all of our attention on murder. We need to address all ethical issues.
Yeah, I'm a vegetarian, yeah I think that other animals should not be used for the sole benefit of human animals. Just wanted to get that out of the way before someone tried to point out that anyone who supports animal rights is probably also a communist (a logical fallacy known as a Red Herring by the way).
I'd like to know who is responsible for using a living thing as a gimick. It's an insensitive thing to do.
I absolutely agree with you 100%. Using a living thing as a gimick to lure people into your booth at the show is a really sleazy thing to do.
Take those nice-lookin' babes with the big breasts and low neck-lines, for example. Fits your model perfectly but I didn't hear anyone complaining about them.
Lighten up. There are far worse things to get upset about.
--
I gave my boss a reality check. It bounced.
Amen!!!
;)
Oh and as a side note I would include uneducated tree huggers along with whiny buttheads and idiots. But you didn't hear that from me
Visualize Whirled Peas
Thats what my job is like!
Does anyone have some official documentation to this? A SiliconValley.com report on a LinuxWorld conference is not official documentation. Where's the docs?
The Linux 2.3.13 sources' logo.gif does not sport the change, and neither does Larry Ewing's site.
This is useless crap to be ignored until and unless this becomes official.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
Yea, like those "whatever in the hell they were" suited characters at JavaOne.
Their cubicle is bigger than mine!
---
While I agree that his comment about Israelis in general was inaccurate, I'm afraid I can't say the same for the Israeli government. The United States has done some pretty bad stuff, but what Israel does, and is still doing, is much worse. At least the U.S. has an executive order barring government agencies from assassinating people, while Israel still often tries to assassinate people (they were caught a few years ago trying to kill somebody they didn't like in Jordan). Not to mention that it was even an issue when an Israeli citizen, who happened to be of an Arab ethnic background, was appointed to a security commission. If that's not racism, what is?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Sience has proved that the fish have much less developed nervous systems than we do. The fish me be hurt a bit but its not like if a human were to bite down on a hook, not even close. BTW if it weren't for fisherman, you probably wouldn't be around. Fish has been the staple of many cultural diets throughout history and has helped mankind get where its at today.
Visualize Whirled Peas
What a nation of whiners we are.
The birds are *professionals* for cryin out loud. With a resume. I suppose it wouldn't have made a difference if they'd hung a big banner underneath the main one reading:
"No penguins were harmed during this exposition."
I suppose next we'll get a story by Katz on how the penguins couldn't get in to see South Park, either.
"Penguins have rights, too! Waaaaaah!"
Blech. Signatures.
Um, so there were two guys in penguin suits floating around the show. One of them was a beat-up rental suit that Seagate had someone wearing. The other was a very droopy lookin' tux that Penguin Computing had someone wearing -it looked depressed. Both the guys in penguin suits were pretty pathetic.
Personally, i wouldn't mind being the center of attention everywhere i went and getting free food to boot. But then again, i'm not a penguin... last time i checked, anyway...
By the way, I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals so much. I'm a vegetarian because I really hate plants!
Stress? Small cage? Jesus, had I known it woulda been like that, I'da suggested we put Bill Gates in there (next to a bowl full of tomatoes.
People. Sheesh.
"Old man yells at systemd"
hmm, you beat me to this one, hehe
+&x
Actually, it seems like most Microsoft fans are trolls... :-)
Looks like wildlife activists are getting just a bit too carried away... What could be better for a penguin than to be well-fed and cared for and near hundreds of Linux boxes?
Self proclaimed animal rights activists, religious vindicates and Linux advocates...
They're all the same: Only a miniscule percentage of them have all the facts.
No need to worry. The penguins will evolve some wire cutters for hands in due time. Then they can cut their way through the cage.
They're probably getting fed fish and getting their tummies rubbed, kickin' back enjoying Linus' speech n stuff. But I'll bet they do think it's a bit warm there, you know, without any glaciers to lay down on....
-- My neighbors dog has a four inch clit.
Look kids, I love animals. I have a house full of rescue animals. I also took the time to wander over there several times and talk to the trainer. This woman is simply passionate about those animals. They have a 1000 gallon swimming pool and a concrete house in her backyard. They seem to have better lodgings than many of my friends. The animals were just fine. They got regular breaks and tons of fish.
I talked to quite a number of people at the show who were worried about the penguins and not a single on had taken the time to find out for themselves how the penguins were. Good Grief!
Or the time they threw turkeys out of the helicopter cuz they thot they could fly?
Actually wild turkeys can fly (not all that well though), however, domestic turkeys generally can't. Wild turkeys are also intelligent (as anyone who has tried to hunt them could attest) while domestic turkeys are one of the stupidest animals you will find on a farm.
I admit that I'm pretty soft on animals, even though I think PETA perhaps goes too far sometimes. Live penguins in cages, I mean, it would have been funnier and more PC (in a good way) and still apropos if they had had two guys in penguin suits doing the tricks. Think about it. Even Microsoft doesn't bring their caged rats, er, I mean, programmers to shows. Just the free-range ones.
"Look kids, I love animals. I have a house full of rescue animals. I also took the time to wander over there several times and talk to the trainer. This woman is simply passionate about those animals. They have a 1000 gallon swimming pool and a concrete house in her backyard. They seem to have better lodgings than many of my friends. The animals were just fine. They got regular breaks and tons of fish. "
1000 gallons? Where I grew up we had a people swimming pool that was 30,000 gals, and even that wouldn't seem large enough to keep a penguin happy. I agree, leave the animals out of the people events, they do not want to be there, I guarantee it. In fact, most people would not want to be there, free food or otherwise...maybe free beer...did they give the penguins beer?
Chris
What's a soul?
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
Anonymous Coward (and how appropriate that designation is here), I don't think you would know compassion if it hit you on the road to Damascus.
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
Hey, I AM a vegetarian. BUT I think PETA should get that stick up their ass and stop trying to force their belifs on other people. This sounds like what the church did in the middle ages, when you think about it (give or take a few deaths). The Church made people be Christian (or Catholic - - whatever...) or they were driven out. In the same sense, we ALL have to be tree huggers or we WILL be ridiculed. The only reason I became a vegetarian was to test my will power, but right about now some raw penguin flesh sounds yummy.
If you think you know what the hell is going on you're probably full of shit. -- Robert Anton Wilson
jdube is who
(Of course, if you're a Whovian, a daemon is also a being who is enormously wise, causes massive temperature changes, and likes mucking about in small villages.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...the difference is, that hot place you are talking about is the daemons natural habitat.
Phobos - Greek word for fear or flight
and no i dont eat them
I am not ashamed to say that I eat animals. When someone comes up with a good reason why dogs, cats, wolves, coyotes, tigers, bears, etc. should feel guilty for eating other animals, then I will rethink my position. Heck, a lot of PETAphiles don't even know that pigs are not herbivores -- far from it, they are occasionally cannibalistic. The reason you have to be so careful about properly cooking pork is because our digestive system is so similar to that of pigs that we are susceptible to the same intestinal tract parasites. A lot of PETAphiles also assume that humans are the only primates that are omnivorous, which is also incorrect. It is common for many other primate species to eat insects (and yes, bugs do count as animals), and some large primates will occasionally catch and eat other types of animals.
If I was intended to eat only plants, I would probably have no canine teeth and two stomaches.
Tux and his friends can not be caged for long. They will rise from the dust of commercial software, spread their wings and soar (kernel 3.0 probably) over the corpses of those monopolists who would make them into a display.
As for the birds at the expo - I'd like to know who is responsible for using a living thing as a gimick. It's an insensitive thing to do. The people who would do this, would certainly not care much about their customers or the quality of their products.
Cutsey gimicks are great. Stuffed and inflatible Tux caricatures are emblematic of Linux, and the Tux logo is our banner. But please, let's show some respect for living things, and let's - if nothing else - not make ourselves targets for unnecessary criticism by proxy.
I'm not one to chain myself to an oak tree, but really, using a live animal in a display/advert shows a particular marketting mentality which does not benefit Linux or the Open Source movement in the least. Those of you at the expo, please take a minute to reflect about the impact of hype, about whom it harms, and make your opinion known to the penguin handlers.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
If you seek logical arguments for AR, check the following:
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
it warms my heart to know that you will die so much sooner because of your crappie diet.. For a second there, I thought I would have to deal with you forever
It is this kind of attitude that makes the sane look upon the PETAphiles as the loons they are.
For your information, roasted bird (as opposed to deep fried anyway), as part of an otherwise balanced diet is one of the healthiest things you can eat.
I guarantee that if someone was eat nothing but deep fried breaded tofu, potato chips and dougnuts and other similar stuff that is all-vegetable that they would be less healthy than someone who eats a balanced omnivorous diet. There are a lot of all-vegetable foods that are full of fat and empty calories.
A lot of the people I know that are vegetarian aren't that healthy (most of them are major-league hypocondriacs), nor do I see any real evidence that they really have significantly longer lifespans than other people who live in the same area that eat a sensible diet including meat.
From Jargon File (4.0.0/24 July 1996) [jargon]:
/day'mn/ or /dee'mn/ /n./ [from the mythological meaning, later rationalized as the acronym `Disk And Execution MONitor'] A program that is not invoked explicitly, but lies dormant waiting for some condition(s) to occur.
daemon
Right on. Well said. Animal activists tend to go to far, including mass propoganda.
News flash, seals can't cry. They want you to think so though.
Actually, I find it arrogant that these activists somehow consider humans to be "above nature." We are animals like any other. A lion will eat an antelope. A dog and cat can be friendly and play with each other. Ditto for a hippo and a bird.
News flash 2, we are naturally occurring and it's quite arrogant to think otherwise. A lion will eat a human if it's hungry enough.
oh wait, you said "if"
(a joke is just a toke with a j)
+&x
If any penguins ever shit on your car, I will personally come and clean it off.
>did they give the penguins beer?
:)
Yes, but then someone slapped the GPL on it, and they had to share
I heard the rumor that the penguins were lethargic, unhappy, and being mistreated. So, instead of just going blithely along with rumor, I went to find out for myself.
I spent about 20 minutes talking with the lady about her little friend. Watching the animal's reactions, etc. The penguin was fine. Perhaps not as happy as she would have been, being at home with her mate, but she was alert and friendly.
She (the penguin) was born and raised in captivity. Her handler has been her only owner, and she was very affentionate with her handler, preening her while we were standing there. The penguin (I think her name was Lucy) is about 12 years old, and is one of 6 penguins that the lady takes care of. She takes the penguins to educational talks, and the like, so the animals are well used to the crowd. Lucy was quite OK with various strangers reaching out and petting her.
Now, when you think an animal is frightened or unhappy, you can look for body language that is very similar to a human's. Lucy evidenced no signs of unease. She was not shaking, cringing, crying out or poking at all the people around her. She was snuggled into her handler's arms, and preening her. Lucy's feathers were not mangy, broken, or dirty, nor were there any missing patches of feathers from the 'stress.' She was very alert, and comfortable.
Yeah, there are reasons to leave animals in the wild. However, there are also advantages to captivity. Lucy (and her pals at home) should live to be 25-30 years old. The same can't be said for her wild cousins. She has a safe, stable home. A concrete house all to herself, with a beachj and water? Who wouldn't go for that?
I appreciated the experience. From my observations, the animal was well treated and loved. I see nothing wrong here.
*** A witty saying proves nothing. *** Voltaire ***
BTW - ever bite down on one of those hooks of yours? You know, just to know what it's like? I bet you don't have the guts to do what you think is no big deal.
Yes, biting down on a sharp hook is probably very uncomfortable to a fish.
But it's the repeated clubbing on the head you have to administer to make the things stop flopping about in the boat that must really hurt.
I mean, were they, Open Source Penguins?
... being locked up in a cage surrounded by Linux geeks is something we should only do to E*Trade executives ...
Sheesh, stick with the stuffed penguins, guys
Will in Seattle
Yeah, well, I'll conjure Adhurartasia on your ass.
Dan
It's boring, and stupid, and fish tastes nasty too.
My philosophy:
"If you're gonna kill it, you should eat it." Jeffery Dahlmer took it a little far, IMO.
Dan
So the difference between the Linux crowd and the mainstream is that they use half-naked chicks to promote their wares at trade shows and we use innocent animals? I'm sooooo proud...
Ade_
/
Big Bubbles (no troubles) - what sucks, who sucks and you suck
That does not logically follow. While I have never witnessed a Tom Cat doing this, I know that many mammals do - lions being one of them. The important thing is why they do this. Since I know about lions, I'll use them as the example. A pride is ruled by one male lion - his job is to patrol the territory of the pride and repel intruders. In exchange he gets to mate with any in estrus female within the pride. For the females, this means that there is a high likelyhood of their ofspring living to adulthood. Competition among male lions is extremly strong. If you have a pride, you are constatly trying to fight off young males who have an extremly stong desire to take your pride away, since this would allow them to have sex and pass on their genes. It would also mean that they don't have to hunt for their own food. While the females will sometimes repel competing males, their general attitude is to the most powerfull of lions. So if a more powerfull competitor appears, they don't argue much when he runs off their current male. Again, their motivation stemming from a desire to see their ofspring survive to adulthood. When a lion takes over a pride, the females with cubs will not come into estrus until their cubs reach adolesence. Since that could be more than a year off, it makes biological sence for a new male to kill all cubs. Waiting for a female to finish rearing her cubs, come back into estrus and then rear his own cubs is a great risk. He may not be able to keep this pride long enough to see his ofspring reach adulthood. Thus all cubs will be killed - biologically encouraging the females to come back into estrus. This allows the male to immediately begin producing his own ofspring. While this seems cruel by our standard, it is not senseless killing. Killing in order to pass on your genes is not the same thing as killing because you enjoy it. Jeffery Dahmer killed because he enjoyed it.
That does not logically follow.
While I have never witnessed a Tom Cat doing this, I know that many mammals do - lions being one of them. The important thing is why they do this. Since I know about lions, I'll use them as the example.
A pride is ruled by one male lion - his job is to patrol the territory of the pride and repel intruders. In exchange he gets to mate with any in estrus female within the pride. For the females, this means that there is a high likelyhood of their ofspring living to adulthood.
Competition among male lions is extremly strong. If you have a pride, you are constatly trying to fight off young males who have an extremly stong desire to take your pride away, since this would allow them to have sex and pass on their genes. It would also mean that they don't have to hunt for their own food.
While the females will sometimes repel competing males, their general attitude is to the most powerfull of lions. So if a more powerfull competitor appears, they don't argue much when he runs off their current male. Again, their motivation stemming from a desire to see their ofspring survive to adulthood.
When a lion takes over a pride, the females with cubs will not come into estrus until their cubs reach adolesence. Since that could be more than a year off, it makes biological sence for a new male to kill all cubs. Waiting for a female to finish rearing her cubs, come back into estrus and then rear his own cubs is a great risk. He may not be able to keep this pride long enough to see his ofspring reach adulthood. Thus all cubs will be killed - biologically encouraging the females to come back into estrus. This allows the male to immediately begin producing his own ofspring.
While this seems cruel by our standard, it is not senseless killing. Killing in order to pass on your genes is not the same thing as killing because you enjoy it. Jeffery Dahmer killed because he enjoyed it.
Well, form a union. If you are not courageous enough to do that, shut up.
--
...the way they have been treated has been fowl.
F*ck Kevin, FREE 'DA BOIDS!!
:)
Killing spammers is too good for them.
Cool. I was wondering what the names of the Penguins were. We know one would have to be Tux.
So one was called TLC too? Was that the one that always wolfed down the fish? Greedy little thing.
But now we know why it needed so much energy.
Sportsmen are very important to the conservation movement.
That's why statistics are paraded around about things like: How many more white-tailed-deer there are in northen Minnesota now than there were before the 'Sportsmen' made sure they were managed. Of course, this sort of misses the point that there were NO white-tailed deer in Northern Minnesota (there were Caribou, now there are no Caribou).
Sportsmen generally celebrate and support the existence of rat-like species that hover around man, and which happen to be good sport to kill and eat. The common rabbits and White-tailed deer are examples of said rat-like species.
> Stop it, Ford. You're turning into a penguin.
> Couldn't resist... anyone why can name the sector they were picked up in wins a lifetime supply of o2.
ZZ-9-Plural-Z-Alpha.
I want it in 2 Liter bottles.
Catch and release guarantees that every fish gets an opportunity to be dragged head-first out of the water at high speed at least several times in it's life.
It's more humane that way.
Bringing live animals to a convention where 1000's of people are going to be at an unsually short distance from these penguins is not bright. These animals didn't have a say in the matter and suffered the consequences if scared. Were they scared? Some say no, and that there is no way of knowing either way. My dad is an ornothologist and he pretty much declared this a nice terrorization of these poor birds. I'm not saying it was purposeful, but perhaps in the future, one will be more thoughtful to the mascots, more so than American Varsity boys are to their rivals'.
My creator isn't dog (or god, or however you wish to spell it). But you're entitled to your interpretation of the past.
Your attitude about what it means to be an American citizen belongs in a theocracy like Iran. Go there now, and fight some infidels. We don't need a bunch of priests shaking their rattles around the place here in the United States.
You can stay if you promise to be nice. But if you insist on engaging in public acts with your holy whore, we will have to ask you to leave.
Christianity is based on sadomasochistic ritual and imagery anyhow. The wasted young body of Christ on the cross. Think about it next time you see one of those most pogniant crucifixes. It gets the Nuns all bothered, to be certain.
Ok, while it is good to see many concientious people voicing their concerns, a lot of extraneous non-issues are being brought up. While there is a lot we don't know about the animal kingdom in general (humans included) a good bit is know through Veteranary research, Animal Husbadry, Professional Animal Trainers and Behavioral Psychologist just to name a few. To both PETA members and their detractors - I recommend you spent time learning about (scientifically and empically), getting to know and caring for a non-human individual.
Below are some important issues for consideration.
1) Were the penguins captured in the wild or were they raised in captivity. If they were raised by humans in captivity, humans are what they identify with. They are no longer wild and they wouldn't know how to live in an wild colony. This is neither bad not good, just a fact of their existence like being born in Oshkosh or San Pedro.
2) If they have been raised by caring and inteligent human, then they have formed a cross-species bond. Thus, these penguins are most comfortable when they are with their family (read owner, caregiver, provider, etc).
3) While zoos are not natual habitats, there things that make artificial habitats comfortable - even desireable to animals. Much of it is species and individual specific and little of it has to do with what we think it should look like. Setting up a minature SeaWorld may make you feel more comfortable but it doesn't mean that the penguin would appreciate it at all. It takes a person who is experienced both with the species and with the individual to determine what is needed to make the individual animal happy. For most animals, it starts with food, shelter and being near other creatures you reguard as caring and familiar. While a pen may seem small by human standards, the important consideration is the animal's comfort. A responsible, caring owner would be albe to tell if their animal was cramped and uncomfortable.
4) While the above is true animals that are stressed do exibit some common behaviors - pacing, refusal to eat, aggressiveness. Pacing, which many animals held in old zoos have exibited, is a sign of bordom. But there is a difference between pacing - in which an animal seems locked in a trance, and walking about looking at your surroundings.
Agressiveness to a stranger can be many things but aggressivness to ones owner is a definite sign of a problem. If an animal is not exibiting fight or flight behavior with their caretaker, then they are probably well cared for.
5) I do recognize these penguines. They are a breed commonly refered to as the Jack-Ass penguine. While in the wild they spend a lot of time in the ocean, they form their breeding colonies on the Western coast of equitorial Africa. Thus they were probably quite comfortable with the temperature in an air conditioned convention center.
6) If it is true that these penguins have been working in movies and entertainment with their owner for a long time then they are accustomed to being around strangers. The important thing to them is that their owner (someone they know and trust) was there and signaled to them (through voice patterns and body language) that everything was OK. Also, if they have been working with their owner for a long time, they must trust and feel comfortable with her: unhappy animals don't work.
Definitely lame. Poor guys.
Errr, ummm.... how much is '98 retailing for again? Just outa curiosity, ya'unnerstand.
oh and ah, how scanty are you talking about?
Killing spammers is too good for them.
Um, just an example. Read:
Heroic PETA Commandos Kill 49, Save Rabbit
"Old man yells at systemd"
I will travel to see that.
I wouldn't want to meet someone as vindictive, vile, cruel, dysfunctional and emotionally co-dependent as that on a dark night. Not without serious body armour, a division of tanks, and plenty of water cannons filled with holy water. And possibly some garlic.
Your idea of God is closer to a vampire than that depicted in the Christian teachings. Face the truth. You're more a member of a Vampire Cult than a Christian.
"Judge not, lest you be judged." Remember that? "Take not the mote out of your brother's eye, until you have removed the stick from your own eye."
Doesn't sound like the sort of person who goes around saying "All liberals are cold, cruel and greed-obsessed", does it? Sounds more like the sort of person who might live with and around liberals, experiencing their lives for himself, and where alternatives to those lives existed, DEMONSTRATED, NOT SHAMED.
Shame is EVIL, a monsterous vermin in society. That is far more evil than a comic-book sketch or a penguin could ever be.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
If PETA would just screw their heads on straight, along with all those other "animal rights activists" (not all of them, just the extremists like PETA and those that give 'animal rights' a bad name), we wouldn't have to put up with articles like this.
Read the article. They were trained penguins. They were used to doing stupid tricks and shows like this -- heck, they were even penguins in Batman Returns! It's not like someone just ran to Seaworld California and stole a couple of the warm-climate penguins from the area outside the penguin complex.
And of course, here comes PETA, the same people who dress up as a Tuna fish and go to a Houston, TX elementary school to tell kids not to eat fish or meat... And plague hunters, without whom the animal population would become to large and die off anyway... Who are well beyond liberal... The fact of the matter is that PETA would come to my house and say that my having a Guinea Pig in a cage is wrong, and that it should be a free-range guinea pig.
How on earth you can be a nerd/geek and a PETA member, I'm not quite sure... All my fellow nerds/geeks think clearly, which is something PETA oft demonstrates they simply cannot do. They complain about sharp fishing hooks, not having vegetarian meals in school cafeterias (which there ARE, if you ask for them), how animals shouldn't be caged, how it's wrong to eat meat, how hunting hurts animals and we should leave them alone, et. al. They can take their vegan lips and kiss my penguin-loving butt.
Not all penguins live in cold climates, and when they are trained penguins, they're undoubtedly used to their cage. These aren't wild penguins who just got shoved in a cage. The one thing that really bugs me about this irresponsible piece of journalism is how they used showgoers' thoughts on the penguins. Do you think an NEC rep is really going to know what a frightened penguin looks like? Give me a break.
There is idots everywhere. Just look at Slashdot... But don't confuse them with what it's really about. The huge amount of suffering stupid prejudices causes is real and the ethics and arguments behind the right to equal consideration of interests for sentient beings it is rock solid.
"under the protection of God's Law -- and that is the only law any white man is bound to obey"
Interesting. What laws do women, children, and people of color have to obey? Let me guess -- whatever the "white men" say?
If there is a god, and they were just, then each person would be sent to the worst afterlife they have ever wished on another.
Jim
The Penquins looked unhappy because they did not get in on the ground floor of the recent Red Hat stock IPO. I cant say that I feel much better! cheers, gbs
This all depends on which _god_ you mean. Not everyone worships a cult leader from the worst part of the Roman Empire. Ask different cultures, get different answers :)
As for humans not eating animals... I've got some bad news for you, sunshine. You are an animal! Homo sapien sapien to be exact. You also happen to be an omnivore. So yes, you were build to eat meat. Depending on what culture you come from, that may happen to include humans.
Back to the topic. PETA seems to have a nack for "helping" animals when they don't know anything about them. Take the octopus in LA, for instance. The local PETA chapter complained that it's cage was too small. It was made up of lairs, crevices, etc. But none of the PETA-ers bothered to read up on it and find out that THAT'S WHERE OCTOPI LIVE IN THE WILD!!!
Ignorance is no excuse, but certainly seems to be a motivator.
"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place."
- Mick Travis, "If..."
Since when does Tux wear a "Blue Tie"? I know the LWE Penguin may sport one, but it is not the "official symbol." Also, this didn't happen "recently." Do journalist double-check any facts anymore?
+--
stack. the off
+-- (Score:-1, Moderator on Power Trip)
(They've one -hell- of a New Year's party they have planned...)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
After two years of being involved with this community I've had enough. I've witnessed the Linux community go from a intelligent one to a group of teenagers ranting about something they don't have the first clue about. This just tips the iceberg!
I don't belong to PETA but I probably should. Why, cause I care for animals more than most of the worthless humans on this cursed planet. I really expected more from this community! Would Linus agree to this? If he would, than fuck him (obviously no better than the rest of the idiots on this planet).
To all those bitching about the ppl in Rawanda and stuff, I say too bad. Earth is too crowded as it is. I know "But what if you were in that situation?". To answer: I would die! Why? Overpopulation will kill us all anyway at this rate, and our animal friends! No need to take them out with us. They were here far before us and I really hope they are here long after us! And to think I wanted to go?!
And if my spelling is wrong, I don't care. I'm a CS student, not a fucking english major!
"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly." --Batman Costume warning label
The cage does look small, and I imagine the animals are subject to a lot of unhealthy stress being gawked at and handled by presumably hundreds of people. No, they probably won't die from it, but that's not the point. It simply was a bad idea and that is not an appropriate environment for wild animals.
Please afford our flightless feathered friends a small amount of respect.
Of course, they still spit, bite, and otherwise are ornery. Also very useful. Perfect mascot for Perl (grin).
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
I disagree. I have no clue where you guys are getting your information, but I for one have never heard of PETA members shooting people with paintguns and such. If they are, good! Why would some old lady NEED a fur coat?! Why must we test on animals when there are tons of better alternatives? Why should we eat meat when vegetarianism would allow us to feed more people on this overpopulated planet? Because people are too busy eating Big Macs and watching Jerry Springer to give a rats fart about anything but what kind of beer they are going to drink that night. I believe this is why PETA acts in such extreme ways, people don't listen otherwise.
"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly." --Batman Costume warning label
i appreciate people's concern over animals but sometimes it gets out of hand. I never did understnad why people go nuts-O over animals when there are so many other more important things to protest. dont get me wrong, i love animals, and i love to help them, and no i dont eat them, but when you pick a cause to fight you should pick a good one. not to say that the little ones should be ignored, but you will accomplish much more by choosing a good fight. that being said, people should complain about rape, murder, theft, starvation, education, polution, and tabloids before they bring up penguins.
happy friday the 13th!
I can see where they're complaining. Penguins may be pretty good around people but they are still wild animals. It's just plain tacky to put them in a little cage like that with newspapers on the ground and put them up for display. If they wanted to have a real show and not piss of the greenpeace types they really should have set up a miniature version of the penguin habitat at Sea World (like a big terrarium/aquarium with a pool and rocks and ice and stuff) Now *that* would be classy.
A) I dont think the penguins endured any severe hardships. As someone already pointed out, these are trained penguins who apparently do this sort of crap fairly often.
B) I also dont think they belonged at the conference to begin with..Sometimes cute==stupid. By doing something as boneheaded as bringing live penguins to a convention you're *inviting* people to make accusations that youre mistreating the animals. I guess you cant expect people who make money off of parading penguins around at conventions to have enough intelligence to understand that concept, however.
Lets just hope this doesnt repeat itself at the next show.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Actually, you might be referring to People Eating Tasty Animals, which I might not mind becoming a member of myself. :)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
I imagine the PETA people would be none too happy about "GNU STABS".
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?"
I was forced to use Magic once. Judging from their abilities to judge their user's happiness I'd have to say the penguins were very unhappy. Probably wishing for the rocket packs from Batman Returns.
-cpd
PETA wouldn't be so bad if they did something other than raise money to fund their organization. Only a small percentage of the money they raise actually goes to the causes theey claim to support. If you're gonna do the whole "animal rights" thing, at least join into an organization that's serious about something other than its own funding.
Note: I think a lot of the "animal rights" stuff is bullshit - like mink for mink coats? They didn't go hunt them, they were bred with that purpose in mind... they're not destroying wild populations that way (now anyway, it may not have been so in the past). Animal rights folks should be a little more choosy about their causes, and I think the groups that are SERIOUS about animal rights probably are moreso than PETA.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Dont get him started. :) We havent heard anything from Katz in the past week or so... dont jinx it :)
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
hope the little fellas are ok.
Well, I was at the show. I'm certainly no expert on all things penguin, but the penguin that was there when I wandered over to the booth seemed pretty happy. ESR walked over and petted the penguin a bit, as did I. Now, these little guys have fair-sized beaks, and I think if they were annoyed with the situation, they'd be using them. Just MHO.
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
I still think it is a bad idea to have live penguins at a conference, at least it sounds like they did it right. 2 veteren penguins and their trainer. It still feels to me like they were "pimping out" the poor birds.
I did find the "deer in headlights" comment humorous. I may not be a penguin expert, but I don't think I've ever seen a penguin that had a look of happiness on it's face(except cartoon penguins). Atleast not how we, as humans, judge facial expressions. They are a type of bird, they don't display happiness the same way humans do. Even if they had the same mental capabilities they don't have the same muscles and bone structures we do.
Of course this is assuming the person that said the comment isn't a penguin expert either and doesn't know how to read penguin body language. I also really don't blame he/she for the comment. Many people like to project human attributes to animals. It is extremely common, and I don't think it is necesarily bad.
--
?
...since that's where this species hails from.
Ok. Please, someone tell me this is a joke. This HAS to be a joke. RIGHT?
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
and by the way.. it's nice that you can make people feel bad for changing their minds.. thats pretty weak
Well, I for one would agree with the previous guy - it's funny how quickly they'll change their minds about using animals to help humans when it involves a member of their family. Then, it's morals be damned, a human life is worth more! Maybe it's a little mean, but it's very telling how strong these people's morals really are. (i.e., not particularly)
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
I have mixed feelings about this. I would agree that people and PETA were overreacting (then again, PETA overreacts about almost everything having to do with captive animals), but I question whether mobile animal shows are really necessary just to promote an unrelated product. I'll discuss the presence of penguins first. For those that were worried about it, temperature, at least for the species used, was not a problem. The photo tells me that these were Humboldt Penguins, a semi-tropical species and -not- arctic or antarctic. Humboldts do just fine in temperatures that most people find comfortable. Somehow, I just can't see them wanting to lie down on any glaciers, as one other Slashdotter so eloquently put it. Bird performances of this nature are not rare. An upscale restaurant that calls itself the 'Rainforest Cafe' opened in one of our malls not too long ago, bringing with it a group of trained macaws and cockatoos. Whether exotic birds in a shopping mall is a good idea or not remains to be seen, but I will say that my wife and I (who have both had exotic animal handling and care experience) had a long talk with the handler on duty at the time. We're convinced that those birds, at least, have nothing to worry about. The birds at LinuxWorld were provided by a (supposedly) professional exotic animal supplier that was licensed to keep and exhibit them. Knowing what I do of the way a typical handler feels about their charges, I think I can say with confidence that the penguins were in good hands. If the noise and activity of a movie set didn't bother them, they're certainly not going to get riled about a trade show. Now, with all THAT said, I can voice my objection to the whole idea: If software or services are good enough in their own right, and presented well, they'll easily sell themselves to the market one is aiming at. Shameless and showy promotions should not be necessary. If Magic Software has to bring in a portable penguin show just to get their stuff to sell, then I have to wonder what kind of quality control they have. ;-)
I think the difference is that there is something we can do about it. When you see something going on that you think is wrong (I have no complaint about the penguin thing, but if I did...) and you think calling PETA would help then go for it. I don't see what you could do about the Rawanda thing except maybe writing your politicians. Yeah that will do a lot of good.
Well, uh, duh. Note the word 'hilarious' in the Subject line. :) Sorry, if anyone needs a disclaimer or something, the onion article linked above is, in fact, a joke.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Stop it, Ford. You're turning into a penguin.
Couldn't resist... anyone why can name the sector they were picked up in wins a lifetime supply of o2.
David
This sig left intentionally blank.
Is this the state where they recently caught a couple of hog farm workers sawing off the leg of a live sow "for fun"?
Must not be, because I've never heard of such a thing. I could believe something like that happening in say... Arkansas, but not around here.
So far, only humans have taken me up on that, but it's worth a try.
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
They would, I'm sure, but Nyarlothotep and Cthulhu are all booked up until Jan 1, 2000. :)
(They've one -hell- of a New Year's party they have planned...)
...and then its straight onto the campaign trail. Cthulhu in 2000 baby! The viable 4th party candidate.
Hey, if the country is going to hell, might as well have someone who's personally familiar with it leading the way.
--sugarman--
Next time we should use monkeys.
leave me alone. i'm kidding.
Werd.
And the phrase "We're not in Kansas anymore" takes on a completely new meaning.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
Oh yes, the so-called Christian Reconstructionists. Isn't Gary North the "Y2K-will-kill-us-all-there's-no-way-we-can-save-o urselves" loony associated with them, too?
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
Yeah, I wouldn't fare too well either, admittedly :) But it sounds more fair than the drivel above.
i reside in a windowless, poorly ventilated office - and i'm one of the lucky ones. how about cubicles, sick building syndrome, no ergonomic thought to the techies work environs....
_ ________
rant...rant...rant...
sure i feel sorry for animals, but there are a ton of us techies that have to work in deplorable lab conditions. where is our voice??
________________________________________
$which weed
Those little buggers are jackass penguins from South Africa. In earlier times on the Cape, they were threatened by extinction because they were too social and too unafraid of humans. Hundreds of them would eat garbage then surround human camps honking like jackasses (they are very loud) demaning more food until some mad sailor unable to sleep went out and whacked a few hundred (I am not condoning this behavior). I ran into a little colony of maybe 25 in SA back in 1996 and they were completely unfraid of humans still (these were wild jackies).
They are thought in SA (as I hope my tale tells) to cause stress--not have much stress themselves.
Remind you of any humans in open source?
Certified Black Helicopter Pilot *** Unwitting Dupe of One World Gov'ment
I think we have found a new category of Frequently Posted Comments. It has already been observed that: "First Post", "Does it run Linux?", "Wow imagine running it on a beowulf!", and "Yeah but when are they going to release it under the GPL?" are required comments for any good slashdot article, now I would like to formally recognize a new ubiquitous comment: "You people would say different if Microsoft does it. You slashdotters are all hypocrites." I've seen it a few dozen times this month.
Circus animals are horribly abused - especially elephants. See the PETA website for details.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
...otherwise the penguins might escape, and then grow to gigantic size. I've seen pictures of what giant penguins do to Microsoft employees. It's not pretty, and knowing Microsoft's lawyers, we'd have a hell of a lawsuit on their hands.
And gods help eTrade if the penguins didn't get to participate in the Red Hat IPO.
Finding God in a Dog
They /should/ have been properly dressed, skinned, and roasted slowly over an open flame. Preferably with a nice wine sauce, served with a dill rice, maybe, and a cold Newcastle.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmm, fine eatin'.
Killing spammers is too good for them.
I would be willing to bet money those penguins live better than I do. Hell, I didn't even get to go to the convention. The animal rights people are just jealous and pissed off their windows machines keep crashing.
--
|-_-| . o O ( bEef!)
There are bigger problems to worry about than whether a penguin was nervous in front of a crowd or carried in a small cage. Christ, I work in a small cage. We call them cubes . . . Maybe you're heard of them? Where are the People for the Ethical Treatment of Tech's (PETT)?
Besides, there's nothing like starting the morning with a nice can of Mountain Dew and a plate of batter-dipped fried penguin!
---
seumas.com
If PETA wants a case, they can look into getting RHAT shares for the birds--you know, commercial use of an image and all that...
Actually, even though I'm not an animal rights freak, I gotta say...the penguins there sounded like a bad idea. Linus met the mascot for the first time in an open-air zoo, where they were free to run.
Oh, and I kind of LIKE the idea of being able to interact with Linus and feed him peanuts and beer. Perhaps he would like it also. But that's just me.
- Pig (too obvious)
- Bull (rear view?)
- Sloth ("Heeeeerrrrs Mike the Microsloth!")
- Dinosaur (obvious, but appropriate, especially T. Rex)
- Vulture
- Balrog (cool graphics possiblilites)
- Vampire or otherwise undead creature
Jeez, the possibilites are stunning. I kind of like the idea of a dancing T.Rex, with a straw hat, cane and big ol' grin that dances around looking cute and then periodically tears up something to bloody shreds (kind of like the Cat help animation).Anyone care to take a stab at it? A poll!! Definitiely should be a Slashdot poll!!
Did you actually bother reading some of the comments posted? Yes, some people do not care, yet there are plenty of people (myself included) who do not like the idea of misusing animals in such a manner (although, personally, I'm not very zeolous on the subject, especially since I do eat a moderate amount of meat and other animal products which is much worse and affects a larger number of animals).
True, some of the people who show a lack of concern probably would complain if they saw that PETA was after Microsoft for the use of a mascot. But many, if not most, of those who showed little concern would show little concern if Microsoft and PETA were having it out.
As for slashdot "losing credibility," your talking about the part of slashdot that amounts to an editorial bulletin board. If a newspaper publishes a letter to the editor that is pure crap, that does not reduce the newspaper's credibility. In any case, slashdot's main function is linking stories from outside sources that may be of interest. The comments are optional and do not detract from the quality of the outside stories that are linked.
Is anybody else sick of that penguin being attached to everything Linux-related? C'mon, Linux is an OS, not a logo. I would rather have the effort currently going into "cute" penguin merchandise, packaging, promos, trade show gimmicks, etc. go toward actual software development instead.
for me, an animal has an extremely limited amount of say about its treatment. People can talk, but an animal just has to hope its behavior is enough to get the message across... Just because other problems exist in the world doesn't mean that everyone should ignore animal welfare in favor of all the other problems - then no one would take care of the animals. I don't think that they should come last on the list. (Sorry for the overly-cheesy philosophical bent) I think that when people treat animals with dignity and respect, that they then tend to treat other humans with more respect. All life is interconnected, it just doesn't make sense to ignore one piece of it.
How does this apply to the penguins at LinuxWorld? While these particular two penguins may have been the best choice for live penguins at the show, I don't think they were appropriate for that sort of atmosphere. I think the company will be remembered as "That company that thought it would be cute to have real penguins in a little cage. Feh!" Frankly, a convention atmosphere is almost cruelty to humans... let alone animals.
Leilah
~ Leilah
Paying their handlers to exhibit them just ensures that more penguins will be trapped in the wild, carted around in tiny cages, and stressed-out by hundreds of grabby humans.
Jamie McCarthy
Jamie McCarthy
jamie.mccarthy.vg
No, you have a choice about where/how much you work. The birds were never given the choice.
LOL!!!
/. :)
Brother/sister, it warms me to the heart to know that the you'll sleep better for that.
I hate to be the one to break the sad news to you though neighbor, but I'm healthy and big as an Ox (and probably smell just about as bad;). Why? Because I eat a balanced diet of proper _flesh_and_ blood_ for my protein (mmmmmmmmmm, mmm, veins in ma' teeth) with veggies and grains. I don't spend my time chewing tofu and wondering if some sloth is being mistreated.
Ye Gods, I love
Killing spammers is too good for them.
...please. It does mention they were African penguins.
Firstly, I have no problem with people fishing for survival or at least it it's as sport eating what they catch. However, I'm don't support people who fish and then glue the thing to a board like it's some big deal that they managed to (barely) outwit a fish. So here you use this forum to call the people at PETA pests because they don't want you to bother the fish well I contribute to those pests on occasion and if they get on the nerves of people like you I'll consider the money well spent. Humans cause each other enough misery on this planet, I'm all for leaving the animals out of it.
BTW - ever bite down on one of those hooks of yours? You know, just to know what it's like? I bet you don't have the guts to do what you think is no big deal.
Last point - most prisoners are well cared for too. Ask them if they like being where they are.
Paul
Firstly, I have no problem with people fishing for survival or at least it it's as sport eating what they catch. However, I'm don't support people who fish and then glue the thing to a board like it's some big deal that they managed to (barely) outwit a fish. So here you use this forum to call the people at PETA pests because they don't want you to bother the fish well I contribute to those pests on occasion and if they get on the nerves of people like you I'll consider the money well spent. Humans cause each other enough misery on this planet, I'm all for leaving the animals out of it.
BTW - ever bite down on one of those hooks of yours? You know, just to know what it's like? I bet you don't have the guts to do what you think is no big deal.
Last point - most prisoners are well cared for too. Ask them if they like being where they are.
Paul
I'd guess it's because /. has been down for most of the day but so far no one seems to have asked the two most common questions:
:)
1) Can they run Linux?
2) Can we turn them into a Beowulf cluster?
Hmmm... would that be animal abuse?
------
IanO
------
Objects in Mirror are Losing!
I realize that this may be a very stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway. Who/what are "Nyarlothotep and Cthulhu"?
Besides that, if they actually had daemons, I know I'd be going.. hee hee hee
Insert mind here.
I think this is really (mostly) a question of how one feels about circuses, Sea World and the like (which have huge numbers of visitors every day!) and also whether the animals were mistreated.
I don't mind animal performers as long as they aren't mistreated. I don't think that by definition animal performers are mistreated, as some do. So, I guess I'd have to see how the penguins were treated and judge for myself.
Kind of pointless to bring them to a Linux convention though, are the two major political parties going to have their animal mascosts at their conventions?
Incidentally, my latest Libertarian newsletter suggested penguins for the party mascot, because it seems quite a few of us are Linux users... but I think this may be unfair since some Linux users are communists, utopian socialists, Republican, Democrat and other non-Libertarian parties. So, they probably wouldn't appreciate an appropriation of the Linux mascot.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I think these cute, cuddly jackass penguins have a right to attend Linux World. In fact, it's practically an obligation.
Therefore, I feel that the proper way to display them is in a refrigerated semi-trailer, with one side made of clear plexiglass, and a nice cool swimming pool stocked with live herring. Also, put a cheapo chaise lounge in there with 'em so that Linus can pose for pictures with a mai-tai in his hand.
Now, that would be the proper way to display those penguins! (IMHO)
Certified Microsoft Notworking Specialist
the lady beside that poor bird was actually caressing the bird's erogenous area.
"Oooooh, spin my nipplenuts and send me to Alaska!" --Kryten
Killing spammers is too good for them.
Remember Herb Tarlick's dancing ducks and the stage was made out of a hotplate with foil over it? And he turned the heat up so they would "dance"?
Or the time they threw turkeys out of the helicopter cuz they thot they could fly?
It's very easy to tell if a bird is happy or not. I've lived with them for over 14 yrs. An unhappy bird will definitely let you know in many ways!
Okay, but they wouldn't have a choice of where to work if they had been born and raised in Antarctica, either...
ME: So Mr. Penguin do you want to work here?
Penguin: SQWACK!
ME: How about here?
Penguin: SQWACK!
ME: Where do you want to work?
Penguin: SQWACK!
ME: WHERE DO YOU WANT TO WORK?
Penguin: SQWACK!
ME: DAMN IT PENGUIN ANSWER ME!
Penguin: SQWACK!
ME: screw it, I'm outta here.
Penguin: SQWACK!
--
?
Oh wait, I meant to say Linux works on small, cramped boxes. Penguins, Linux, cages, computers... it must be a Friday. Lighten up, If birds were meant to rule the world, they would have invented a free OS.
I am fed up with the PETAphiles. Almost all of their arguments are morally and intellectually bankrupt, and their tactics are either stupid or heinous.
I live in a state with a lot of agricultural production, and myself, and I would venture to guess, most of the rest of the population is tired of their lame stunts.
What about the BSD mascot? Isn't the little daemon forced to live in a place where it is excessively hot? Haven't fire and brimstone been found to be cancerous?
/* No, I'm not condoning cruelty to animals or belittling the objections of animal advocates. */
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
There freaking birds. I don't hear any complaints about the rats, kittens, snakes, tarantulas, crickets or fish that are kept at the local mall pet store!!! You wanna see scared and traumatized check out the tiny glass case thay keep the scorpions in. And the case of Pythons is far too small for a wild snake!!! Sheesh, it is a bird. They live, they die, they poop on the newspaper, so what. Complain about smog effects on sparrows, or the old lady feeding processed foods to the pigeons in central park. I'll call you stupid just the same. They're fricking birds. They don't care.
--"Cynical?? Who's cynical???" -k-
You didn't expect anything ethical from Israelis did you?
Having worked with Israelis and spent some time there, I'd expect about the same ethics as I expect from most Americans -- and considerably better than what I've seen from the sort of Americans who are paranoid about Israelis.
Make of that what you will.
"Once a solution is found, a compatibility problem becomes indescribably boring because it has only... practical importance"
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." --
These animals are NOT wild animals, they were born and raised in captivity. Would these people be complaining if some more common domesticated animal were brought to the conference? I have a pet bird and a dog that I know would love to be around all those friendly people. You can't simply say definitively that all animals fear crowds.
In all of my expiriences with animals, each react in some degree in three specific ways when in threatening or stressful situations. They either fight, flee/become withdrawn if that isn't possible or they play dead. While I'm no Dr. Doolittle like our fine friends at PETA claim to be, these penguins were showing none of these reactions.
I have to agree with the first post the US media is full of whiners. That's my $0.02
--Let's hack root on 127.0.0.1 --panZ
These people and other animal rights activists have got to be the single most unintelligent bunch of people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter in my life. Example:
1. There was once a captive, record sized lobster on display at a resturant. Now mind you, this lobster's only fate was to be a well fed display piece at this resturant, he was in NO danger of being eaten. Some group broke in and tried to "save" this poor chap. In the process, they managed to break off a claw off this poor creature. To compound this lobster's misery, they forgot to remove the rubber band that they put on the lobster's other claw. So now we have a "saved" lobster with no means of defending itself till such time as it molts and grows his new claw. Given the poor creature's age, this will be a long time and he'll probally be eaten LONG before that happy day.
2. A group claims a victory in saving deer moose and elk. This really frosts me because it was nature that saved the project...not them. The plan was to move a population of each to an island in the great lakes. This island had no predators and no hunting was allowed. Much to my complete lack of surprise, they multiplied to numbers that the island could not sustain and the population was doomed to a long and slow starvation. In steps Mother Nature to the bat. A really cold winter causes the ice to freeze fron the mainland to the shore. Something that rarely occurs given the distance involved. Over this ice, a pack of really hungry wolves schleps over to this island looking for food and walks into paradise. A few years after that, there is now a healthy and managed population of deer, moose, elk AND wolf living in balance. Andthe animal rights groups say that thier project was a sucess. It was, but no thanks to the moron patrol.
If these birds were performers in the Batman movie, then they are in no stress. I wish I lived life as good as one of those birds.
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
Sportsmen are very important to the conservation movement.
It probably sucks getting hooked and scared shitless and derricked out of the water, but it beats the hell out having your home turned into a cesspool.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Yeah, it helps those suffering people a lot if you torture fish! It's just a sad, bad, excuse. Please think about it! Or read a good book (preferably one by Peter Singer). Or both. Then become a vegetarian.
(In my best Jon Katz style)
Geeks are commonly thought to be a kind, thoughtful group. Because they endure so much hatred and repression, they learn first-hand how it feels. Many geeks are vegetarians. Some are avowed pacifists with a deep aversion to America's growing culture of violence promoted by the mass media and the NRA. The Linux World Expo provided an opportunity for the intellectually superior to get together and demonstrate their kindness and overwhelming urge to share.
Just don't tell that to the penguins.
-- Anyway, you get the idea.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
Penguins probably understand approximately three things. Whether they're eating, whether they're able to mate, and whether there are any predators around.
I suspect they're doing quite well on two counts. As for the third, well, if I can live without it, so can they.
Ok so _these_ Penguins were captured alive, and put to work (unlike asian Oxen) for the benifit of Pro-Open Source humans. It is a well known fact that every subsequent Linux* conference will more of the many thousands of attendes, thus I contend it is rude to not bring enough Penguins for everyone, and worse to taunt them about.
The next LinuxWorld better have a TON of PenguinJerky, or IDG, is gonna stand for
"I Didnt Get" any PJ
JoeT
Joe Torre - X - HardwareEngineer @ Amiga Inc & ZapMedia Amiga, AmigaDE, BeOS, Linuxz, QNX, Rebol, Windoze, ZME: So
it's picture from the biodôme of Montréal, i don't know why /. do not accept IMG tag... so here's the link updated each minute or something like that.
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http://www.beroute.tzo.com
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Who needs predators?
Killing spammers is too good for them.
Given that penguins in the wild are gregarious (or at least the Arctic types are) and these were raised by humans and calm enough to be rubbing beaks and eating treats, I suspect the only stress they might be experiencing is insufficent crowding.
Compare that to the life of a wild penguin - with predators behind every visual barrier - and you'll see these little birdies were likely in penguin heaven.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Same point, different country.
..AAAAaaaaaaaaaiiiiiigh"
"African or European?"
"I don't know that!
Wait, that's Vulcan...
;)
No problem, so am I (joking, that is
Killing spammers is too good for them.