Slashdot Mirror
German Law Firm claims Linux Trademark
Andreas Spengler writes "Apparently
a german lawfirm has filed a claim with the
german patent office for the trademark Linux
in Germany.
It's still unknown what their goal is.
" The article is in German, as one would expect. Babelfish the article.
...please post a translation done by a human? The silicon babelfish just doesn't quite cut it yet.
I think alot of people will have to pay me then.
> Whether it concerns a new case of Markengrabbing
Well a pretty clear meaning here...
moneygrubbing
I bet the law firm is a front for another company. Most likely SuSE or Siemens. The latter would be truly sinister.
Does anyone know in which countries Linus holds the trademark for Linux? And how long has Suse been around Germany?
What the heck are "folkenspiel" ???
Where are the slashdot anarchists? This is an ideal situation for you to tell us how horrible intellectual property rights are. Where are you guys, we need some humor.
That already occurs quite a bit in Germany. There is at least one sheister lawyer who makes a regular habit of helping people trademark and copyright things in use such as "webspace" (recent example) and other cominalities. The annoying thing is that they register it and then general pick on people with no monetary backing sending cease and desist orders. Then the lawyer charges the person who is receiving the letter for "forcing him to send the letter" or something similar.
Right, we don't know that this party is going to try and make money off of this. Could just as easily be a well meaning linux Geek. Some people collect Linux T-shirts.
A person from Austria is not from Australia.
A blip from channel ones home page (translated...) We recommend preparing for our customers Internet-Services with Linux-Basis. What is Linux? What are the advantages of Linux? How does Linux assert itself on the market? We have composed the facts for you And then they have a cute little link to Tux with a little bit more info.
...that the kind soul in question would have posted it as a reply to this. There seems to be such a xlation posted a little further down from this one (and, of course, ten different people re-posted the babelfish results in ten different places. Think of all the people that will save AN ENTIRE CLICK!)
{anti-xenophobic-rant}
Also, all Americans have an IQ less than their shoe size.
{/anti-xenophobic-rant}
Please, judging people from what they did 40 years ago simply isn't justifyable. But then again, anything that isn't American is evil, right?
Ugh.
(Hint: Any answer that "explains" that these people are only out to make money means that you can read minds.)
Glad to see the US no longer has the monopoly on idiot lawyers. And that's pretty hard to achieve!
Well done!
I didn't know World War II was in 1959!
So I mis-typed. Its 2:45 over here (CET).
it was meant to say OVER 40 years ago.
happy?
I live in Germany and if that story is true and
has some implications for Linux distros and the
like, I will drive to that idiot's house and
hit him on the head for being a complete wanker
to pull such a thing off. He will need the money
he made out of Linux for the hospital, that's
fer sure.
I'm in a fighting mood tonight. Better stay
of IRC right now.
The reason why people haven't complained? Maybe we don't want the Klan, or nutcase Christian fundamentalists running around blowing up clinics.
Hitler said he was a Christian, doesn't mean he was.
Where's the gnulix guy? :)
This is proof of american stupidty. :)
Didn't Linus just copy Minix (or was it Xinu)? Should he be entitled to any trademark at all? And isn't the bulk of most distributions GNU stuff?
It's amazing, how some of us think they can judge about 80 billion people just from one written statement. C'mon, you can't really _mean_ it. -rolf
It does mean something. If you pronounce the English word 'nine', it sounds like the German word 'nein', which means 'no' in English. Which means a lot w.r.t. this patent application.
Go to germany and say that and they will put you in prison. There isn't free speech in germany, so they would probably consider what you are saying as promoting nazism.
In most countries, it is limited to outlawing the distribution of nazi and fascist propaganda, and to the distribution of material promoting racism, with very strict rules defining where they apply (strict enough that the nazi parties and racist organizations certainly don't have any problem spreading their filth in Europe either - there's even European chapters of the KKK).
Noone is stopped from having racist or fascist ideas, or from talking about them, but the laws make it harder for them to publish material publicly, and thus makes it harder for them to recruit.
It's not like the laws say "hate speech is illegal". If anything the laws are so strict they are rarely used in most countries.
Their main use is as a safety measure against facist and nazi parties with the intention of overthrowing democracy, and came as a direct result of WW-II. They nazi parties can still build their organizations, and talk about their point of view, but the laws make it a bit more difficult for them to launch massive propaganda campaigns.
Some countries also have more broad hate speech laws, though.
Some are trying hard to imitate the U.S. and what is wrong about speaking a foreign language. Have heard some Americans even can speak real English ... hey, it is a joke ... a *joke* ...
You missed the important one - the date of the post, which was 14/9 (or 9/14 if you're west of the pond.)
..... 23.
14 + 9 =
They're out there.
it was meant to say OVER 40 years ago.
;)
And as everyone knows, over forty years is really ancient history to the Americans.
Hi,
I guess most of you know this, Linux was trademarked in the US in 1995 and is now owned by Linus Torvalds.
The 'DATE OF FIRST USE' was set to somewhere around 1994. Now, what this basically means is that they can prove that they used the word in conjunction with the explained context (basically software) around 1994 the first time. Now, if anyone would come and prove that they used the word before that date, then the trademark would have to be moved to the other person. At least that is how I understand trademark law. It will be more difficult to challenge the trademark now that it is fully registered, but it could still be done.
The thing that would interest me the most right now is, what is the date the german company said was their First Use?
Also, what would interest me is, does Linus not have to make sure that it is actually shown that he owns the trademark for Linux to make sure it is not voided? I always thought as soon as you have a trademark you have to actively go against people that use it other than yourself, even if you just tell them to add a notice. I for one have never seen an (r) behind 'Linux' anywhere..
BTW, here is the trademark info on Linux in the US.
Fabian Thylmann
Oh please, there are about 6 billion people living outside the US, and that is certainly a huge majority. Second point, linux being invented in finland would make it an european invention, wouldn't it? Third point, always remember that exept in certain areas, USA lags behind Europe, technologically wise. Last point USA is only an illusion of a democracy: -one party (I mean, there is no difference between Democrats and Liberals) -military spending at the level of a third world dictatorship. -And it is the only so-called developped country I know of wich makes widespread use of propaganda.
The trademark claiming company posted their reply to the above mentioned accusations under http://www.channel-one.de/html/presslinux.html (German)
The basically say that they don't intend to use it to harm Linux in any way but to make sure no one would do the same thing to make profit or anything. They intend to work further with and for Linux (by creating a comic with the penguin for example).
Now that you have posted their web page and email addresses, whatever benign feelings they might have had towards the linux community will soon evaporate, when their webpage is defaced, and their mailboxes fill up with porn mailing lists. People seem to be so angry they start shouting nazi alert again...
there is free speech, your just not allowed to say hateful shit. Which I prefer from the US way of letting every psycho and racist have their say.
Wie heute im Heise-Newsticker zu lesen war, haben wir eine Markenanmeldung für den Namen Linux beim deutschen Patentamt in München laufen. Dies entspricht den Tatsachen. Dieser Artikel hat einige Wellen geschlagen und uns wird nun teilweise unterstellt, daß wir die Absicht haben, die Marke zu "klauen" oder uns in irgendeiner Weise Vorteile durch diese Maßnahme zu verschaffen.
Uns ist natürlich klar, daß wir die Marke Linux nicht für uns beanspruchen können, da sie Allgemeingut darstellt. Wenn überhaupt steht Sie Linus Thorvalds zu. Außerdem ist uns bewußt, daß wir uns, selbst wenn es gelänge, die Marke für uns zu beanspruchen, in der Linux-Welt nicht gerade beliebt machen würden.
Wie wir jedoch gerüchteweise erfahren haben, hatte ein anderes Unternehmen genau diese Absicht. Zunächst konnten wir nicht glauben, daß die Marke Linux in Deutschland nicht geschützt ist. Ein Gang zum Patentanwalt belegte dies aber. Kurzentschlossen haben wir einfach eine Anmeldung eingereicht, um sicherzustellen, daß nicht irgendjemand mit kommerziellen Absichten dasselbe tut.
Wir von der Firma Channel One sind Freunde der Linux-Bewegung und es liegt uns fern, in irgendeiner Form daraus Profit zu schlagen, der uns nicht zusteht. Wir arbeiten zur Zeit selbst an einer Linux-Distribution für Büro-Anwender, die wir nächstes Jahr verteilen möchten um den Kreis der Linux-Nutzer weiter zu vergrößern. Die von uns geschriebene Intranet-Software Intraline läuft ebenfalls auf Linux.
Unter der Domain linux.channel-one.de werden wir in Kürze eine Comic-Serie mit dem Linux-Pinguin als Protagonisten veröffentlichen, um der Linux-Gemeinde ab und zu ein wenig Kurzweil zu bieten. Auch sonst tun wir etwas dafür, das Betriebssystem Linux weiter zu verbreiten, wie man auf unsere Homepage www.channel-one.de nachlesen kann.
Channel One GmbH
Roy Boldt
Of course this is what it translated using AltaVista Translations:
As was to be read today in the Heise Newsticker, we have a markenanmeldung for the name Linux with the German patent office in Munich to run. This corresponds to the facts. This article struck some waves and was now partly assumed us that we have the intention to provide the label " klauen " or us in any way of advantages by this measure.
Us it is naturally clear that we cannot stress the label Linux for us, since them represent common property/knowledge. If at all you Linus Thorvalds is entitled. Additionally are us conscious that we in the Linux world even would not make ourselves popular, even if it succeeded to stress the label for us.
As we experienced however geruechteweise, another enterprise had exactly this intention. First we could not believe that the label Linux is not protected in Germany. A course to the patent lawyer occupied this however. We shortdecided easily a log-on submitted, in order to guarantee that somebody does not do the same with commercial intentions.
We of the company Channel One are friends of the Linux movement and it are appropriate for us far to strike in any form from it profit which is not entitled to us. We operate at present even on a Linux distribution for office users, we the next year to distribute would like around the set of the Linux users further to increase. The Intranet software Intraline written by us runs likewise on Linux.
Under the Domain linux.channel one.de we will soon publish a Comic series with the Linux penguin as Protagonisten, in order to offer to the Linux municipality from time to time few Kurzweil. Also otherwise we do something to spread the operating system Linux further how one can reread www.channel one.de on our homepage.
- Cologne: The trademark rights for Linux belong to Linux Torvalds in Europe as well as in the USA (German Trademark 2088936, EU trademark submission 000851246
- AlexThis was explained by Achim Cloer, chairman of the German Linux union (LIVE) on wednesday, concerning news that a Hamburg company let his patent lawyers get the rights to 'Linux'. "Linus Torvalds will not allow any violation of his rights and will take all measures to fight this" said Cloer.
Linux Unions patent lawyer, Rainer Feldkamp of Munich, who also protects Torvalds rights in Europe, explained, that the announced trademark protection of the Hamburg company was impossible to defend. "We will protest immediately against this new submission as it is not authorised by Torvalds[...], said Feldkamp. "There is no reason for excitement"
Read the translation (http://www.freetranslations.com) of the German article on http://www.linux-verband.de/Linux-R/linux-r.html: Linux® - contention enclosed Contention around Linux trademark enclosed. Wiesbaden/open systems 17.9.1997 at the 17.9.1997 in the frame the system/GUUG year conference open 1997 took place a public pronouncement on the registration of Linux as a sign sign. Present were: wolf gear Dreyer Linux internationally Achim Cloer LIVE Linux-association / Delta Internet Edmund Humenberger proprietor of the sign sign Linux for Germany Rainer Feldkamp patent attorney Christian Hüttermann proprietor and Betreiber of the Domain linux. de Fashion ration Martin educated GUUG e. V. Mr. Humenberger, proprietor of the german sign "Linux" sent middle July 1997 at Christian Hüttermann, that Betreiber of the Domain linux. de, a license contract, in which he guaranteed a 10-year-old utilization of the word sign "Linux" in compliance of a non-aggression obligation. Thereupon Mr. Hüttermann delivered the matter at the Linux association LIVE, Linux internationally and the GUUG. In a Telefonat between Achim Cloer and Mr. Humenberger, there was a first contact reception to this circumstance, with which yet no unification could be reached. The further action was put after coordination of the single associations and in arrangement with the American lawyer into the hands of Mr. Feldkamp, patent attorney and even user of Linux. In the course of the organization, the representatives of the involvierten associations clarified the previous events. Wolf gear Dreyer as a representative of Linux internationally gives confessed that it came in a blow between patent attorney Feldkamp and Mr. Humenberger shortly before the discussion fortunately to a unification. Yet during the public discussion, Mr. Humenberger transmitted its total sign rights bzgl. Linux at Linus Torvalds. At the end of the organization, Mr. Humenberger to its action position took: Mr. Humenberger pursued already 1993 the discussion in the Newsgroups around a registration of the sign sign "Linux". Because at that time yet no interests representation of the Linux community existed, Mr. Humenberger took the registration itself into the hand in order to protect Linux as a sign sign for the entire Linuxgemeinde. With this the contention is enclosed around the german sign" Linux" and the accompanying IR sign "Linux". ____ I don't know why the people are upset 2 years after Linux as been registered, and if the article above it's true, there is no danger at all. It's simply bad journalism. Greetings from Germany, Carsten (Gee, the registration for slashdot takes a lot of time... I haven't received my password via email yet.)
Read the translation (http://www.freetranslations.com) of the German article on http://www.linux-verband.de/Linux-R/linux-r.html:
Linux® - contention enclosed Contention around Linux trademark enclosed. Wiesbaden/open systems 17.9.1997 at the 17.9.1997 in the frame the system/GUUG year conference open 1997 took place a public pronouncement on the registration of Linux as a sign sign. Present were: wolf gear Dreyer Linux internationally Achim Cloer LIVE Linux-association / Delta Internet Edmund Humenberger proprietor of the sign sign Linux for Germany Rainer Feldkamp patent attorney Christian Hüttermann proprietor and Betreiber of the Domain linux. de Fashion ration Martin educated GUUG e. V. Mr. Humenberger, proprietor of the german sign "Linux" sent middle July 1997 at Christian Hüttermann, that Betreiber of the Domain linux. de, a license contract, in which he guaranteed a 10-year-old utilization of the word sign "Linux" in compliance of a non-aggression obligation. Thereupon Mr. Hüttermann delivered the matter at the Linux association LIVE, Linux internationally and the GUUG. In a Telefonat between Achim Cloer and Mr. Humenberger, there was a first contact reception to this circumstance, with which yet no unification could be reached. The further action was put after coordination of the single associations and in arrangement with the American lawyer into the hands of Mr. Feldkamp, patent attorney and even user of Linux. In the course of the organization, the representatives of the involvierten associations clarified the previous events. Wolf gear Dreyer as a representative of Linux internationally gives confessed that it came in a blow between patent attorney Feldkamp and Mr. Humenberger shortly before the discussion fortunately to a unification. Yet during the public discussion, Mr. Humenberger transmitted its total sign rights bzgl. Linux at Linus Torvalds. At the end of the organization, Mr. Humenberger to its action position took: Mr. Humenberger pursued already 1993 the discussion in the Newsgroups around a registration of the sign sign "Linux". Because at that time yet no interests representation of the Linux community existed, Mr. Humenberger took the registration itself into the hand in order to protect Linux as a sign sign for the entire Linuxgemeinde. With this the contention is enclosed around the german sign" Linux" and the accompanying IR sign "Linux".
____
I don't know why the people are upset 2 years after Linux as been registered, and if the article above it's true, there is no danger at all. It's simply bad journalism.
Greetings from Germany,
Carsten
(Gee, the registration for slashdot takes a lot of time... I haven't received my password via email yet.)
Hey, sounds like something Sollog would think of :-)
Hi kids, guess what?
I've just filed for a trademark (US) on the term "GNU/Linux". I'll soon put an end to this silly name squabbling!
You can thank me later.
according to this article (to improve your German skills :-) http://www.it-nachrichten.de/news/html/t/show.html ?id=19587
That is simply not true.
Many of the current high-profile cases (tobacco, firearms, etc.) were initiated by gangs of lawyers who combed the streets looking for "victims" to use as fronts^H^H^H^H^H^Hplaintiffs in their multi-billion dollar extortion schemes.
That reminds me of a case in the Dominican Republic. Some guy had tried to get a McDonalds franchise down there, and when Mickey D's decided not to give him the franchise, he trademarked the "golden arches" and he called his stores McDowells or something like that (very "Coming to America").. McDonalds ended up paying the guy off, and now they have stores all over DR. Moral of the story? Heck if I know, either way its screwy.. :>
In other countries such as Japan and England most lawyers just need a degree (this is true of Japan, England may require varying levels of test to perform certain tasks). In England only certain "Lawyers" can argue in court, in US anyone can (but I believe you must be a lawyer to represent another person). In Japan, likewise, you only need to do the equivalent of a bar exam if you are going to argue in court. Corporate lawyers just need a degree.
Stupid people believe stupid statistics. ACK
In German though, no harm can come from speaking a foreign language 8-)
Note: I am a trademark too, anyone who wants to buy me ?
> On September 12, 1999,the protest period for the
:)
This should be Dec 09. 1999, Americans have their dates backwards
about the Linux trademark they filed in Germany.
It translates (in short words) into:
Linux soon not free anymore ?
The Hamburg patent layers Hauck, Graalfs, Wehnert reserved the trade mark Linux at the german patent office. This was confirmed by a employee of the office by request of c't. Also, the "Deutsche Markenblatt" (german trade mark publication) lists the trade mark. In issue 36 dated 9.9.1999 (page 9919) Linux is listed under item 399 36 517.6 in the categorie Software.
What intentions trade mark holder Roy Boldt has in mind with the registration is not clear. The CEO of the Hamburger computer and bussines consulting office ChannelOne was inspite of several attempts not available on the phone. Whether this is a case of trade mark grabbing, or if Boldt is doing this in the interest of the community , like in the case of an Austrian Linux trade mark owner, is not clear at the moment.
Boldt can not be sure of the trade mark Linux. According to US law, the trade mark is owned by Linux-Father Linus Torvald. Torvalds had to fight for the trade mark in a US court.
The result of a comparable trial in germany is not clear. According to the german patent office, the trade mark law ends at the country borders. What the course of action here in germany will be remains to be seen. The time frame for a request for revision against the trade mark Linux ends on Dec 9 1999. Until then, everybody can claim a protection of the trade mark. The patent office is already armed for such a case. For such protective claims, the Form "W7202" is available on the World Wide Web. ---- my attempt, too lazy to login
I get the feeling that there is a segment of the population that feels compelled to test the rest of us. Will we put up with them, or simply pay them to go away. They'd rather be paid to go away, but will continue to be a pain in the bippy until someone in the Linux world takes a traditional Big Business approach to all of this and starts scooping up trademarks and patents left and right.
Like it or not, Linux has gained the attention of lawyers, executives, and beaurocrats and we will be forced to play their games. I imagine many inventors have gone through this before, and it will happen again.
Sucks, don't it.
Name: Roy Boldt
Adresse: Channel One GmbH
Gerhofstrasse 40
D-20354 Hamburg
Germany
Telefon: +49 40 35710650
Telefax: +49 40 35719786
NIC-Handle: RB53-RIPE
Domains: channelone.de , channel-one.de
They (http://www.channelone.de) actually recommend
Linux to their customers; their webserver seems to
be a Solaris, though.
Maybe one should phone this guy and ask what's
going on.
"The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
Anyway, combine this with babelfish and you have something which is almost understandable.
(freetranslations.com german -> broken english)(end german -> broken english translation)
--
The world is neither black nor white nor good nor evil, only many shades of CowboyNeal.
see http://www.linux-verband.de/Linux-R/linux-r.html (also German).
in short: on 17.9.97 the TM owner met with Linux International, LIVE Linux-Verband, the owner of linux.de, moderated by Martin Schulte of GUUG e.V.
(German UNIX Users Group http://www.guug.de/)
They discussed the topic and at the end Mr. Humenberger gave the TM to Linus.
Mr. Humenberger said that he wanted to protect the Linux (TM) for the community.
Sebastian
"As can be read in today's Heise Newsticker, we are currently registering a trademark for the name Linux at the German Patent Office in Munich. That is correct. The articel has lead to high tides and now we are partly alleged of having the intention to steal the trademark or gain advantages in any way out of this step.
We certainly realize that we cannot claim the trademark Linux, because it represents the community. If at all, it is the right of Linus Torvalds to claim the trademark. Furthermore, we realize, that we, even if we succeeded, wouldn't make many friends in the Linux community.
We have however heard rumors about another company exactly trying to do this. First we couldn't believe that the trademark Linux wasn't registered in Germany. Meeting our lawyer, we however realized it was in fact true. Without much thinking we simply applied for the trademark to ensure that noone with commercial intention does before us.
We of Channel One are friends of the Linux movement and we are far from making profit from it that we don't earn ourselves. In fact we are currently working on our own Linux distribution targeted at the Office User that we want to distribute next year to further increase the number of Linux users. Our self-written intranet-software Intraware also runs on Linux.
On the domain linux.channel-one.de we will publish a comic series with the Linux penguin as a protagonist shortly, to provide some entertainment to the Linux community. And as you can see on our homepage www.channel-one.de, we are also helping to enlarge the Linux community by other means."
End of translation
I hope that I did a readable translation (the other way is easier, i.e. English->German).
Sebastian
Even though this is legally enforceable in the USA only, they should be able to use the same approach in other countries if needed. Also, owning the trademark in the USA already may constitute a good argument in many jurisdictions. However, that may depend on the actual circumstances in each particular case and country.
I think he was thinking of "glockenspiel". Dunno what he has against them. Maybe he's heard the Monty Python sketch "Bells" a few too many times? :-)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Is it just me, or does this translation remind anyone else of the famous "Gefingerpoken" paper?
Dieses Mark ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben! Ist easy ausragen den Users, lacheln den Publik, und mailbomben mit schmutzig-Worden. Ist nicht fuer gekaufen von den Dumbkopfen! Die rubbernecken sichtseern keepen das cotten-pickenen lawyers weg muss; relaxen und den Marketvergrossung watchen.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
The site referred to was incorrect. It was pokey.org, named after the owner of the site who was given the nickname because he was slow (as in "slowpoke", nothing to do with an orange clay horse).
Of course, that the owner was merely 14 or so when the lawyers struck made Prema Toy Company look stupid. They looked a little less stupid when the creator of Gumby found out the lawyers were hassling a kid and made them apologize.
Of course, this still didn't save pokey.com, which was owned by someone with a last name along the lines of "Pokanzer"... Maybe if he was 14 he'd still have his domain name too.
(Oh, yes, and pokey.org is still there....)
It's a sad thing that not all humans can succeed and excel in ways that inspire us. For every Linus, there are a thousand bottom feeders looking to get an easy ride. I'm afraid Linus will eventually be forced to assume active ownership of the name.. until this matter is cleared once and for all in all territories. I hope all the bullshit won't end up distracting him too much!
"Linux" soon no longer free?
The Hamburg patent lawyers Hauck, Graalfs, Wehnert have claimed the word "Linux" at the German patent office. This was acknowledged today by an employee of the 'Sozietat' upon a request from C'T. The German 'Markenblatt' (Listing of brand names) also lists the trademark. In edition number 36, published on 9.9.1999 (page 9919), Linux is listed under the document reference 399 36 517,6 in the category software.
Which aims trademark owner Roy Boldt has with the registration is unclear. The managing director of a Hamburg System House and the management consultation operation ChannelOne was unreachable by telephone today despite several attempts. Whether it concerns a new case of brand name snatching or perhaps an unselfish act, such as the one from an Austrian Linux trademark owner, remains unsure for the time being.
However Boldt cannot be sure of the name "Linux" just yet. According to US laws the trademarks have been property of Linux father Linus Torvalds since 1997. However, Torvalds had to take the matter to court to claim the rights for himself.
For now, the outcome of a comparable law case in Germany would be uncertain. According to information from the German patent office, trademark law is confined to the respective state borders. How things proceed in this country remains to be seen in the next weeks. On 9.12.99 the period for objections to the protection of the word "Linux" ends. Until then, everyone can make claim for a "relative obstacle to this word protection". The patent office is already prepared for such a case. The form designated "W7202" and meant for possible contenders has already been given a place on the Internet.
Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer, so I apologise for possible flaws in the technical terms.
Michiel
... is someone that can post the translation on their website, providing a direct link. Perhaps Slashdot could create some kind of special area for this?
Also a solution similar to this would allow some that speaks German or someone that has translated babelfish to english can post their finished translation.
Isn't it amazing that the internet has few language bounds? (A bit off topic, but this is important)
----- Cool Linux Project of the Week!
Coming soon... October 1st!
What right does a law firm have of ownership to Linux? Lawyers are supposed to troubleshoot problems with the law that are supposed to protect, not to take advantage and lay claim to opportunities.
I feel the need to order a tasty cream pie delivered to that law firm.
Warning: Calling my German weak would be an understatement. However, it's probably better than what Babelfish (when I can get it to work) does to English.
Will "Linux" Soon No Longer Be Free?
Hamburg patent lawyers Hauck, Graalfs, and Wehnert have registered the word "Linux" with the German patent office. This was confirmed to c't today by an employee of the firm. Deutsche Markenblatt also lists the trademark -- In issue 36 of September 9, 1999 on page 9919, Linux is listed 399 36 517,6.
Which owner Roy Boldt plans to do with the trademark is unclear. The managing director of Hamburg Systemhauses and the Management of Consultation (?)at ChannelOne were not available by telephone despite repeated attempts to contact them. Whether this is another case of "trademark grabbing" or whether Boldt -- like the owner of the "Linux" trademark in Austria -- has unselfish motives, is unknown at this time.
However, Boldt may not yet be sure of his rights to the "Linux" name. According to U.S. law, the trademark, since 1997, has belonged to Linux creator Linus Torvalds. However, Torvalds himself only got the rights to the name after (a legal battle?)
The output of a similar legal case in Germany would be uncertain. According to the German patent law, trademark ownership ends at a country's borders. How it applies in this country will only be revealed in the coming weeks. On September 12, 1999, the protest period for the "Linux" trademark ends. Until then, anyone could make put forth a valid claim that it should be protected.
The patent office has allowances for such a case. The form "W7202" to file objections is already in place on the Internet.
Again, forgive me if I've completely screwed this up.
Thanks. You know, you live here in the US long enough and it gets easy to screw up those dates (and money... had some friends visit from France recently, and I thought they'd been getting hit really hard by inflation until I figured out they were using commas where I'd use a period).
The typical German is a nazi.
The typical Russian is a commie.
The typical Jew is greedy.
...
Such a spirit IMHO doesn't match with the spirit of the people behind Linux.
--
..which filed the Linux trade mark is
www.channel-one.de
They have an email address info@channel-one.de
and apparently feedback@channel-one.de ( I found
the latter using a search engine).
Their web pages look relatively Linux friendly and
reasonable. So it might be worth to find out _why_
they trademarked Linux (only stupid or unfriendly?).
--
I wonder if the name 'intenet' has been trademarked yet...
Or the words 'computer', 'software' or phrases like 'free beer'.
Your German is just fine, Bruce :-).
(In case people didn't know: the Mark is also the German currency).
-------
Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
Ok, normally I do hate those kind of replies, but things like that do really make me angry - spam 'em!
On the reasonable side: I thought there was already a similar case in Germany - does anyone remember the details?
Has this world become too poor for them lawyers?
Why can't they put this silly game to a rest?
First in US, then Korea, and now in Germany.
Don't they understand that things like "Linux" belongs to EVERYBODY?
I mean, will they go and trademark the word "Earth", hoping that they would own the entire planet?
Geeeeesh !!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I read Markengrabbing as something like domain squatting, as one of the meanings of Mark is, auf English, 'brand'. I think markgrabbing would make a better english word for the practice, also.
-- Jeff Paulsen
Trademark law is national.
Well, that is Austrian, which is quite a difference.0 00/ l
Here are a couple links (in German): http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/avr-02.09.97-
http://www.linux-verband.de/Linux-R/linux-r.htm
At least they don't run Windoze. Netcraft reports:
www.channel-one.de is running Apache/1.3.6 (Unix) mod_perl/1.19 ApacheJServ/1.0b5 mod_ssl/2.3.0 OpenSSL/0.9.3 on Solaris
"Linux" soon no longer free?
The Hamburg patent lawyers Hauck, Graalfs, Wehnert have registered the trademark "Linux" with the German patent office.
This was acknowledged today by a member of the law firm following an inquiry by c't. The trademark protection is also reported by the publication "Deutsches Markenblatt". Linux is listed in issue #36 from 9.9.1999 (page 9919) under the document reference 399 36 517,6 in the software category.
It is unclear for what reasons the trademark owner Roy Boldt registered the trademark. The CEO of the German management consulting company ChannelOne was not available for comment despite several attempts to reach him by telephone.
It is unclear at this time if this is a new case of trademark grabbing, or if Boldt wants to act unselfishly like an Austrian holder of a Linux trademark (Note of translator: the Austrian guy handed the trademark over to Linus).
However, Boldt can't be sure of the trademark rights of "Linux" just yet. According to US law, the trademark is owned by Linux-Father Linus Torvalds, who had to go to court to get the rights.
At this time, the outcome of a comparable case in Germany would be uncertain. According to the German patent office, trademark law ends at the respective country's borders.
The next couple of weeks will show how the saga continues. The period to file objections against the trademark registration of the word "Linux" runs until December 9, 1999. Up to that date everybody can claim a so-called "relatives Schutzhindernis" (Translator's note: basically, claiming prior use). The patent office is prepared to these claims. The form "W7202" to use for claiming objections is already available online.
From a babelfish translation:
" In number 36 of 9.9.1999 (page 9919) Linux under the document reference 399 36 517,6 in the category software is listed."
Well, I think the significance of this is pretty obvious...
On the first line, we start with 36. 3+6 is nine, and 9*4 is 36. Then you have 2 nines, followed by a 1, and 3 more nines. That makes 5 nines...1 less than 4 nines! The second line is even more interesting. The first digit is '3' while the last is '6'...36 again! With another 36 in the middle! There are a total of 10 nines in the whole thing, and 1+0=1. The number of beginnings, unity, the antichrist, and cream cheese. Add all the digits in both lines, and you get 132. 1+3+2=6, which when you turn it upside-down looks kind of like a nine. You know what this means, don't you??!
Absolutely nothing.
--
As the article points out, it's quite possible that the people who have registered the trademark have done it to protect the Linux community, rather than to exploit it. This is what happened in Austria (as the article also says).
I suppose the ideal thing would be for it to be given to Linus but some beneficient Linux-using lawyer looking after it and not causing any hassle is surely the next best thing.
Well, I will only reproduce parts of it so that they don't sue me for copyright infringement. Here comes the "fair use":
Our Philosophy: [which should mean "how we explain existence", but really is only a mission statement ...]
We wish to aid our customers during all phases of inter- and intra-net [note that the internet is first priority ...] projects. Our encompassing competence [note that they don't know how to operate the demoronizer, or, for that matter, their web page generator, so that their homepage is vanilla without frames; *and* they ignore blind people or lynx users] positions us as external advisers. Through a lively mindset of service and better service [sorry my fault, try translating "dienstleistungsgedanke" yourself then ...] we attempt to tie customers to us [oh, gee, that's confidence-inspiring ...]. During realisation of our projects we focus on the optimal synthesis of doability and technical avantgarde [= lots of JS, little use ...]
We offer an encompassing competence in all areas of internet technologies, with the synergistic effects are exhibited in better results and quicker reaction times.
Also, the company was founded by a single person in 1995, the guy employes 33 people. They have just entered digital TV (I kid you not, but it's probably not meant literally ...) and started the ISO 9000 process. Let's see whether they have documented how to deal with a zillion slashdot inquiries yet ...
Finally, the company that undoubtedly is going to utilise the OPEN word of the Linux world as a marketing gimmick asks for your mail reader (outlook or netscape) when you subscribe to their mailing list.
... sorry to rant
I think it's national unless you file in each
...
country.
We can always change the spelling
to Linoux, it would still sound the same.
But then as long as he owns the trademark where
it counts, meaning the US
Copyright is automatic
Trademarks have to be actively defended.
I love it! "Markengrabbing" seems a better description of the concept than any comparable english word. I don't know if this duality exists in German, but to this English-speaker, the double meaning (Mark as in money, mark as in trademark) is hilariously appropriate. After all, in this day and age, grabbing trademarks is a much more profitable activity (witness the domain-name gold rush) than grabbing money.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
Those registers of domain names were NOT claiming any trademark.
This law firm has REGISTERED or filed to register a trademark and is claiming it.
The argument on domain names has been that domain names should be separate from trademarks in the real world, especially if there is another reason for them (i.e. veronica.org = someone's name).
Maybe it's just a ploy to get attention. Kind of like the 'First Post' peons.
An exploration of mixology, spirits and bartending.
at least in Spain and France, UNIX is a brand of fire extinguishers. I don't know if they have a trademark on it, but my guess is that they would. no conflict with AT&T's (or rather, whoever is operating the Unix name this week), because it's for a different type of product.
Many people have strong opinions about this. But this is exactly the kind of event that we as a community should have an open patent and trademark portfolio. Linus should have something to say about this trademark claim though.
Bumping heads with people like this is inevitable. He just have to be lions and be brave and fight the good fight. There is no way around it.
This is only a good idea if the trademark is dontated to someone like Linux International, or Linus Torvalds. It would be inappropriate for one competing distribution (say, Red Hat) to own the Linux trademark and be in a position of denying every other distribution maker (Suse, Mandrake, Debian, Joe Shmoe) from using the word Linux(tm) in relation to their product. Even if privately held Red Hat would never do such a thing, we cannot be certain of the eternal benevolence of publicly traded Red Hat which is, now, beholden to its shareholders, not the Linux community at large.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Maybe I'm wrong but is trademark law international? In which case would not Linus hold the trademark everywhere?
Someone have an answer to that?
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
- Mister Humenberger has filed the trademark 'Linux' for Germany in 1993.
- He agreed to transfer his rights to Linus Torvalds in 1997 after an effortless try to get linux.de to acknowledge this rights. (see URL below)
- You can file a trademark again in Germany. However you will only succeed in defending it if you can proof that you used the mark before the original filing occurred in a commercial context. This seems very unlikely.
So why did they do it? Publicity stunt? Ignorance? I don't know. But their chances are next to none.The article referred to in the /. article has already been much critizised for being inaccurate and sensation-seeking.
Reference: Streit um Linux Warenzeichen beigelegt.
--
"Just believe everything I tell you, and it will all be very, very simple."
So far, we have absolutely no idea why this was done and what the (_potential_) registrants are up to.
Previously, there have been individuals who abused their ownership of a Linux-related trademark, domain name, whatever, and there have been other people who donated it to the community.
As long as we don't know anything, let's just wait and see, ok? If Channel.One turns out to be evil, I am sure to take out my clue-stick and hit them.
------------------
You may like my a cappella music
You can't trademark something with significant
and widespread use. However it may be cheaper
to settle with the a_sh_l_ than to fight it in
the international courts.
The article mentioned someone owning the Australian trademark on the name Linux...
any pointers to that story?
In any case, you'd think that there would be some sort of prohibition on trademarking a name that (a) you did not come up with, (b) was already in common use, and (c) described a product you did not create, produce or own.
If that's not the case, I'm gonna fly to Germany and start trademarking every steenkin' noun, proper or not, in the dictionary.
"Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
It's not that Microsoft doesn't work hard (or at least as hard as any other fat corporation). They just work on the wrong stuff. ;)
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=nomic
AtariDatacenter said:
>Can't wait until fifty years from now when there's a colony on the moon or something. Heck, I'd trademark Linux, Pepsi-Cola,
>the letter "X", and the number "3aF". No prior use on the moon would be great.
Well, under the 1979 UN Moon Treaty (applying to all bodies outside the Earth), individual nations retain sovereignty and legal jurisdiction over their vehicles and bases. Thus, an American colony would be governed by US law. At this point, a sovereign moon colony is not permitted.
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
As far as I know, it the trademark "UNIX"(tm) goes from AT&T the originator to their spin-off USL (UNIX [System?,Support?] Labs) to Novell who bought the code to UNIX. Then Novell sold the code to SCO and the trademark to X/Open (now the OpenGroup).
;)
May have something confused there, though...
__
ipsa scientia potestas est
"knowledge itself is power" - Francis Bacon
> (remember? Volkswagon, not Folkswagon!)
Actually, I believe it's Volkswagen. But it would be pronounced Folksvagen, ja?
Andy
Photos of bits of the past hiding in the present: afiler.com
Please stay calm first.
At the moment it's a little bit difficult with Trademark in's Germany. There's for example a Trademark on Y2K and on Webspace.
It's silly and obviously for money-grabbing. They even tried to auction the rights for Y2K on ebay.de. But in the last weeks, some people tried to register things like WWW or FvG(the initials of a german lawyer who is know to bring you to court if you don't follow trademark laws(for example the use of Triton referring to the Motherboard-Chipset or the Name Explorer (Microsoft signed a contract to use this name in Germany))).
So it's probably, that someone's registering linux before somebody evil can do this, if it's at all possible to register it. At the moment the trademark isn't registered yet, there's only a request for it.
Stay calm,
Keef
sorry for my english...
Actually .. there has been already a "lawsuit" about the trademark "Linux" in Germany.
In this article (in german) from 17.9.1997 it is mentioned, that the last owner of trademark granted all rights to Linus Tovarlds.
He also mentioned, that he only protected the trademark in for the linux community.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't.
They claim that they are 'friends' of the linux community. so if this applications fails, it sends a strong signal to all would be linux distributors that nobody can trademark linux in germany. If any other company applies in the future, Channel One can counter that application because their application have been rejected before (IANAL).
If this applications succeeds, they can position themselves to be the sole distributor of the gnu/linux operating system. They say they won't but that does not mean they will. Not very good.
The best course of action I see is to file a counter to that application. If Channel One intention is true, failing the application would not affect them. That is, they can be sure that no other company will be able to force them to pay money for the use of linux trademark. If their intention is not.... well..
Any volunteers? I'm not German.
Hasdi
www.base3.org
;-)
So Microsoft would have to add 3...
Glückwünsche, haben Sie Slashdot ermordet, indem Sie zum korporativen Druck beugten und Subskriptionen einlei
That first line should read:
... 9!"
"You missed something very vital..5+7=12, which divded by 4 and multiplied by the first number (3) is
My journal has hot
When you apply for a trademark, you generally need to specify which catagory or catagories the trademark applies to.
So... its quite possible to have a 'Linux' brand washing machine, and a 'Linux' brand operating system without any trademark conflicts.
Umm... "spiel" means "play" (I think). "folkenspiel" means nothing, although "volkenspiel" would have something to do with people playing (remember? Volkswagon, not Folkswagon!)
Whatever.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Ja, es.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
It seems to me that I saw an article describing RedHat's use of IPO money to set up offices in Europe and Japan. Betch they have the money to file an objection. Ditto SuSe, SGI, VA Research, and most any other commercial Linux firm.
Trust me, this has no chance.
If I remmeber correctly the trademark of Linux was recelty overturned in Taiwan because it was proven that linux was used before the trademark. I imagine that such a law also exists in Germany...And it's really easy to prove linux has been used since before they applied the trademark (SuSE).
- AMW
YES! great idea. Accually I just checked and it is on dictionary.com. Accually it looks as if a linux lover works there. Compare the definition to unix to definition to linux. The linux one is almost an encylopedia entry. A bit overboard yes, but nice to see. There is even a slashdot and freshmeat link at the bottom!
Trademarks != Patents
Thanks for playing though...
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
While it is true that you have to activly defend your trademark, it is possible to have said mark pass into common usage.
I believe this was the case with using the words "a monopoly type board game." Although I am not positive, I believe Parker Brothers lost because it was deemed that, in the descriptive sense, the term monopoly game has become common.
I am sure there are better examples (Vasilene, Kleenex, etc.) but I can't think of them at the moment.
McFly777
- - -
"What do people mean when they say the computer went down on them?" -Marilyn Pittman
I'm not sure what scares me more, that page or that I'm replying from inside it.
Excuse me while I go puke....
(I wonder
See you, space cowboy...
If you thought that was sad, try this.
We want endless gardens of data, where the bits can flower, flourish and reproduce. -- Andy Mueller-Maguhn
Reminds me of a story. I used to live in Eastern Washington State near Cashmere, WA. That's where the Treetop company is based out of. Seems there is a Treetop based out of Kashmir, India.
Funny.
The party's over
Yes. In the UK, there are two types of lawyer: barristers and solicitors. Solicitors do paperwork, draft letters, wills, and so on, and give legal advice. Barristers represent you in court.
I must admit it was quite amusing in the film `The Rainmaker`, seeing the young lawyer knocking on a door with a sign saying `No Solicitors`..
I don't know if anyone posted this already, but there's another article in channel-one.de concerning the trademark-issue. The article is here. I really can't speak that much german, but the point is (I think) that they say that they are not going to use the trademark to get profit or anything. Dunno, run it trough babelfish, maybe you could make something sensible out of the article.
Well, look at it this way.
If the USA has half the world's lawyers, and the population of the EU is somewhere between one-and-a-half times and double that of the USA, I think you've answered your own question.
Bottom line: The EU is nowhere as litigious as the USA. (Though it appears that we're working on it.)
--
This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along.
--
"This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along."
At the very worst, RMS gets his way in Germany: GNULinux
I think I'll stick with smileys (the humor pseudotags didn't work).
;)
At the very worst, RMS gets his way in Germany: GNULinux
Why are lawyers the only people who ever try this stuff?
The same reasons crackers are the only ones who crack machines. And car mechanics replace good parts to charge for labor. Everyone uses their skillz to get what they want, when you understand the law you can try to manipulate it, even when you are sure it is illegal (even if you don't think so personally). People do what they can, lawyers just happen to be able to fsck the rest of us with their silly reindeer games. Is there a nice derogative term for crackin' lawyers? (or does "lawyer" pretty much cover it?)
+&x
Arguably, Linux is the same.
It seems to me that the best way to protect the Linux name may be to go around trademark law entirely and go to where the real power is--lobby Merriam-Webster to put it in their next unabridged dictionary.
--The basis of all love is respect
> Trademark ownership in the USA does not imply
> trademark ownership in Germany.
Can't wait until fifty years from now when there's a colony on the moon or something. Heck, I'd trademark Linux, Pepsi-Cola, the letter "X", and the number "3aF". No prior use on the moon would be great.
---
Conflict over "Linux" put aside
Wiesbane/Offene Systeme, 17 September 1997
On 17 September 1999, an open discussion about the registration of the trademark "Linux" took place at the annual congress of the Open Systems/German Unix Users Group (GUUG).
Those present:
Wolfgang Dreyer, Linux International
Achim Cloer, LIVE Linux-Verband / Delta Internet
Edmund Humenberger, Owner of the Trademark "Linux" in Germany
Rainer Feldkamp, Patent Attorney
Christian Hüttermann, Owner/operator of the domain linux.de
Moderated by:
Martin Schulte, GUUG e.V.
Mr. Humenberger, owner of the German trademark "Linux", sent a license agreement in mid-July 1997 to Christian Hüttermann, owner/operator of Linux.de, in which Mr. Humenberger guaranteed 10 years' use of the trademark "Linux" in return for an agreement not to resort to legal recourse.
In response, Mr. Hütterman referred the matter to the Linux Verband LIVE, Linux International and the GUUG.
The first contact regarding this situation came in a telephone converstaion between Achim Cloer and Mr. Humenberger, in which no agreement was reached.
Further process was placed in the hands of Mr. Feldkamp, a patent attorney and Linux user, in coordination with the various associations and with an American patent attorney.
In the course of the meeting, the representatives of the involved groups reviewed the current events.
Wolfgang Dreyer, as representative of Linux International, announced that, at a metting between patent attorney Feldkamp and Mr. Humenberger shortly before, an agreement had been reached. During the open discussion, Mr. Humenberger transferred his rights to the name "Linux" to Linus Torvalds in full.
At the end of the meeting, Mr. Humenberger made the following statement with regards to his actions:
Mr. Humenberger had followed a discussion in newsgroups regarding the registration of the name "Linux" since 1993. As no interest group in the Linux community existed at that time, Mr. Humenberger reigstered the name himself to protect it on behalf of the Linux community.
Herewith is the controversy about the German trademark "Linux" and the related registered marque "Linux" resolved. ---
One would hope that ChannelOne would have similar intentions. I do know that they have been involved in Linux for some time, so let's hope they are benevolent enough to give Linus the rights...
Ethelred
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
How many times has this happened now?
I remember when some jerk (read: lawyer) started posting messages to the Linux newsgroups a long time ago saying that everybody running Linux had to send him money because he "patented" it or something.
If a court ever sides with these types of scum, I'll have to make a mental note to never live in that country. It would be fairly obvious that their courts are more concerned with the game of law than actually protecting honest people's rights.
Why are lawyers the only people who ever try this stuff?
Maybe some of the newly billionaire-ized companies would have a vested interest in protecting the copyrights on the word "Linux".
Agreed - I was suggesting that a company with deep pockets could fund the fight on behalf of some worthy beneficiary. I think that would be in their interest.
Would this maybe be a good time to establish some kind of Linux defnese fund which would have the resources (through some kind of voluntary funding) to acutally deal with this kind of stuff?
...
With the increasing spread of Linux, attempts to claim some sort of ownership will probably only increase; some sort of a defense fund might deter these people and go after them if they can't be deterred
--> R
Is'nt that the point of copyleft and the GNU licsences so that this sort of thing is more difficult to do?
If not they might want to tighten them up so we still have open source but that no one can trade mark someone elses work for royalty cash
Error #302: Reality.sys corrupt! Reboot universe? (Y/N)
I believe that Linus is on holiday (bablfish says "vacation") following feature freeze on 2.3.
/. Is it time for people who are legally qualified to start contributing by opposing this sort of thing?
It's just not nice to do this to a chap while he's taking a break.
There must be some 'open-source' lawyers who read
I know it seems terribly corporate, but if we are going to continue with our successes in the corporate arena, would it hurt to have a few lawyers on our side?
I have been told that a Korean company holds the Korean trademark for UNIX. They make household appliances I think.
Not sure, correct me if I'm wrong.
Or is that a different company? If it's the other one, I seem to recall some merger articles about Deutsche Telecom and Channel One when I was buying some France Telecom (FTE) shares. Maybe the news items are still available ...
Will in Seattle
Goh, when are companies and the like going to learn that there is not quick, easy way to gain money - It all takes hard work and a keen mind... ok (possible flamebait... I hope not)Microsoft might not follow that per se, but you've got to give it to Gates... he's got the brains...
Anyway, what happened to the hope of Linus being able to own the copyright... that seemed the clever idea, a bit like the GPL (yeah, I know... not linus) in effect.
Wow... it's really tempting to moderate this translation as "Funny".
It's really difficult to tell what the artical is even saying, but it does appear that it is on behalf of c't? Or did c't report it?
#include "standard_disclaimer.h"
"Microsoft patents 0's, 1's"
It's really not that far off, except it would more likely be some sleazebucket trying to trademark it rather than patent it. Besides, M$ would more likely try to "Embrace and Extend" by adding 2's, he he...
...disciplining the ronkeys since 3/2000...
...disciplining the ronkeys since 3/2000...
Everyone in Germany, simply ignore the trademark. If these asswipes actually try to sue you, hold an installfest somewhere near their offices, and then have everyone who shows up for the installfest march down there and tell them exactly what they think of this kind of petty shakedown.
Nothing like an angry crowd to convince people of the error of their ways.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
> there is free speech, your just not allowed to say hateful sh_t
The problem here comes from the question of who defines hateful sh_t. Someone once pointed out that even Fred Phelps (www.godhatesfags.com) thinks he's speaking out of love.
I would rather have to put up with a bunch of "psychos and racists" than worry about the government what I can say.
--
"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
Will people ever calm down. It's just a waste of time for everyone involved. And they seldom get anything out of it other than legan expenses.
-awc
I don't think so. Isn't that how copyright works? Or am I backwards. I know that one of the two doesn't care about how vigorously you defend it.
-awc
I've got six semesters of high school German all lost to the ether, but even I can provide a translation to this word. It's just I don't think mine would end up in a dictionary.
Hey, just a made up, Fatherland-sounding word.
Combine the word folk and the name of a loud, annoying and well worth destroying German musical instrument.
Better yet, take the word 'folk', translate it to German (on Babelfish if you like), hook it up to "spiel", then translate back again. It's all in fun.
How many folkenspiel are going to try and pull this kind of stuff?
If I file a trademark claim in Germany for the words 'German' and 'Deutsch', can I force every German to pay royalties for their use? Actually, after I trademark them I think I'll just change their definition to something more appropriate...
I hereby claim that the word "the" is a trademark, and I own it.
Now don't get all upset. I am a reasonable person and will not place excessive burdens on your use of the®. If you would like to include the® in your essays, documents, letters, program comments (and any other linguistic medium), I will make it very easy for you to obtain a license, with little red tape and at a low cost. Normally you should estimate a $100 license fee for each appearance of the®, although I will perfectly happy to negotiate bulk rates for novelists, newspaper editors and others with special needs.
Can't you see how co-operative I am willing to be? How could anyone complain?
You must understand, of course, that the® law requires me to aggressively protect my intellectual property rights. If I allow casual uses of the® to go unchallenged, I may lose my trademark claims in the® future, and we don't want that to happen. Therefore, if I see any further unlicensed uses of the® in Slashdot or other media in the® future, I am afraid my lawyers will have to get in touch with the® authors. If things get too bad, I may have file charges against CmdrTaco. But no hard feelings of course, it's nothing personal; just business. Have a nice day.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
People with stand up for it. It's not only about Linus Torvalds getting the trademark. It's also about protecting _everyone_. After all, who, in the long run, can win against a whole community?
Surely not a man trying to play trademark laws and getting the credit for the name Linux.
"...We certainly realize that we cannot claim the trademark Linux"
"... it is the right of Linus Torvalds to claim the trademark"
Perhaps they should claim it in the name of Linus and (when the claim is successfull) _give_ it to him.
"We'll reach that bridge when we find it" - Suzy Romer, prime minister Netherlands Antilles '98-'99
English to German to English to German :)
"After the page you look above, are not current not attainable. The web site could find technical difficulties, or their data base search routine adjustments preserve, around you to adjust to have."
Sorry, but as long as I'm going to try to view that story with Babelfish (and then have the page not able to load) I figured I'd mess around.
"This marajuana went on the right to my header text, Geck. Stop this bonggehen!"
Killing spammers is too good for them.
To the best of my knowledge trademarks and copyrights are *not* international. I know that patents are not. (I think that there is a commitee that meets evry other year or so to make them international, but they always end up arguing and quitting without any result)
You have to apply for trademarks, patents, etc in each country where you do business. Should someone else clain your trademark before you, you could be out of luck unless you have some kind of legal precedent. For example, say soemone registered the trademark coca-cola in their country. A couple of years later, the coca-cola company decides that they want to start selling coke in that country. So they Sue, and point out that they hold the trademark in every other country in the world. End of discussion.
The problem with this is that the Coca-cola co. would have the money to bring proper legal power to bear in case the country in question gets all uppity. To the best of my knowledge, Linux does not.
Sig:
Barbeque is a noun. Not a verb.
"Too bad you can't inflict penalties on companies that do dumb things..."
/. is all about, after all, but we can take it beyond the confines of /. as well...
Actually, you can. You can use your power as a consumer to refuse to do business with them. Take your business elsewhere. Tell your colleagues to take their business elsewhere. Circulate the news, and tell people what you think about it.
That's a lot of what
o/~ we are pissed, we are pissed, we have to resist... o/~ - ec8or
{begin translation}
" Linux " soon no longer freely?
Those Hamburg patent lawyers Hauck, Graalfs, Wehnert let protect the word label " Linux " with the German patent office. This acknowledged today a coworker of the partnership on request of c't. also the German label page specifies the trademark protection. In number 36 of 9.9.1999 (page 9919) Linux under the document reference 399 36 517,6 in the category software is listed.
Which aims at trademark owner Roy Boldt with the log-on, is unclear. The managing director Hamburg system houses and the management consultation of the ChannelOne was by telephone not attainable today despite several attempts. Whether it concerns a new case of Markengrabbing, or whether Boldt wants to concern unselfishly like a Austrian Linux trademark owner , remains for the time being in the dark.
However Boldt of the label cannot be safe " Linux " yet. After US right the trademarks are situated since 1997 with Linux father Linus Torvalds. Torvalds had itself the rights however only before court firstrides.
The output of a comparable law case in Germany would be meanwhile uncertain. After information of the German patent office the trademark law at the respective state borders ends. How it continues here to country will only show up, in the next weeks. To 9.12.99 the contradiction period runs against word label " Linux ". Up to then everyone can make a " relative protection obstacle in such a way specified " valid. The patent office is already prepared for such a case. The form " W7202 " designated for any objections has already a fixed workstation in the Internet.
{end translation}
No Longer a Menace to Society.
Alexandria Morrigan born 2/22/01 l. 20.5in wt. 7 lbs. 5 oz.
Anyone know what the average # of Lawyers (per 10k human beings) is in Germany?
;)
It'd be interesting to see how they compare to us goofballs in the US, as we are well known for legal silliness (coffee anyone?)
Come to think of it, what are the figures for the rest of the world?
We Americans don't get out much
it.
Apathy is for couch potatoes.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Thats crap. We have racial vilification laws, which make it illegal to discriminate against a person based on race. What is the problem with that?
The reason why people haven't complained? Maybe we don't want the Klan, or nutcase Christian fundamentalists running around blowing up clinics.
Having human translations for foreign articles would be excellent. I'm American, but I speak enough French to translate articles; if (however rare it may be) I come across one I'll be happy to post a translation of it here.
kugano
Nick Moraitakis
-- say with me: i'm a monkey child
I do not pretend to understand if this is truly a big deal or a minot blip with regard to Linux in Germany. However, it seems the perception is that it is a Bad Thing.
Perhaps it would behoove linux advocates in various countries to attempt to get trademark for "Linux" (ditto BSDs?) specifically to prevent this type thing. The trademark could then be transferred to Linus, to some noncommercial Linux body, or perhaps even simply held and 'not enforced' - which, and I may be wrong, means the trademark loses it 'power' but also prevents the seeming undesired re-use.
Or is this being done and I just have yet to hear of it?
I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
Too bad you can't inflict penalties on companies that do dumb things like trademark names which are pretty obviously either public domain or closely associated with other companies/organizations, or patent things which have lots of prior art floating around.
I wonder if somebody could make the legal argument that doing such dumb things cause a lot of people/companies to waste legal & financial resources to counter the bogus trademark/patent, and that the trademark/patent filer is liable for that amount (like a class action lawsuit against a company for causing "damage" to the class frivilously).
Of course, what's really needed is a BTTH (Boot To The Head) for the people in the Patent Office who keep approving these things & for the Congresscritters who futzed around with the laws enough to make this kind of situation a big bonanza for companies that like to litigate their way to profits.
I believe it said "Austrian".. Not exactly the same thing. Isn't that the link right there next to it, too?
~ Kish
Well, you've got to remember that you're talking about the same country that has outlawed "hate speech". I wouldn't expect all of their laws to make the most of sense.
~ Kish
Copyrights are indeed international, although they are not worldwide. As DHartung pointed out earlier, this is thanks to the Berne Convention. I believe that trademarks can be applied for on a number of levels.. I forget what all of them are, I know a couple are national and statewide. I remember seeing something about an international search on a few trademark sites, but to be honest, I've never been very interested because trademarking costs money (and a lot of headache if you want to keep said trademark).
~ Kish
Thinking about it, wouldn't it be in the best interest of SuSE and the other active European and international distributors of Linux to cough up at least a big chunk of the money to protect Linus' trademark of the Linux name? Because they would stand to lose a lot financially if they had to pay royalties on the Linux name, not to mention that it would generally make them look like fools. This seems to me to make this into a moot point - everyone acknowledges that the false trademark claims are entirely frivolous, and if the commerical money is there to back the trademark defense, it seems like this would be a real losing proposition for the pretenders.
or you might want to use this:
Channel.One GmbH
Beratungs- und Systemhaus
für Internet- und Intranet-Systemlösungen
Am Sandtorkai 77
20457 Hamburg
Telefon 040 37646-0
Telefax 040 37646-292
http://www.channel-one.de
boss mail: Roy Boldt, Geschäftsführer
---- Have you ever gone to sleep with Bo Derek and woke up with Bo Didley? - NoFX
Actually, this is a "feature" of German trademark law, which sucks.
I seem to remember that a German opportunist trademarked the name "Lady Di" three days after her death (charming chap). And then sued the Princess Diana Memorial Trust (yes yes or whatever its called) because "Princess Diana" was obviously the same person as "Lady Di", so they were infringing his trademark. There's a lawsuit going on over this one at the moment.
The trademark is not enforceable outside Germany, and probably not inside Germany either, if anyone had the time and lawyers to sort it out. It's certainly wasting a lot of time for the Diana people.
But sooner or later there will be a European Directive on trademarks, so as long as the Linux [tm] isn't stolen in other countries (unlikely) the Germans will have to give it up.
My advice to you would be to trademark "Folkenspiel" as an insulting name for the Germans and then go after Deutsche Telekom hard.
jsm
On the other hand, I think the European Union would have something to say about this. I found this link:
Which basically says that trademarks acquired in one EU state can't be diluted in other EU mamber states
I seem to remember that Linux is a [tm] in Austria, and guess that it might be one in Finland, which would mean bad news for Mr. Brodt.
More generally, a trademark isn't something like a patent or a copyright which you can just have on the shelf. Trademark law exists to protect companies against unscrupulous imitators cashing in on their goodwill. Which means that you typically have to be actually trading to keep your trademark. Unless the German guys start producing a proprietary product fairly similar to Linux (good luck guys), they won't get the [tm].
On the other hand, German [tm] law is widely known to suck, so there may be more to it than this.
jsm
Actually, Mondial has made (failed) attempts to force the owner of the earth.com site to give the site name to them... I know it's not exactly the same issue, and is related to DNS problems, but since you brought it up... Also, they _do_ own the trademark 'earth': "Mondial acquired the trademark EARTH. (See Ex. A - U.S. Registration No. 1,371,439 for EARTH, issued November 19, 1985.) For many years, Mondial has prominently and continually used the mark EARTH for footwear." see www.earth.com for more info...
Perhaps the best thing about the article is the Bablefish translation of "Stimm gegen Spam" as "Be correct against Spam" I think I got myself a new .signature ;)