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Now It's Doctor Linus Torvalds
Uart writes "Linus Torvalds, is the youngest recipient (at 29) ever of The University of Stockholm's honorary doctorate. Read about it here." (From Linux Today).
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I would like to offer a constructive criticism of your posit there's alot of people out there that don't have a degree and are alot more intelligent than those who do.
There is a common confusion to both sides of the academic/non-academic struggle: education does not equal intelligence. Further, neither is an acceptable substitute for the other.
I would encourage you to view Linus' honorary doctoral degree as a validation by academia of his efforts and philosophy, instead of a slap in the face to the self-educated.
Current Poll = Most Powerful Doctor Linus Torvald + PhD = Dr. Torvald My vote is for Dr. Linus Torvald!
It should be pointed out that PhDs are given out for a new contribution to the field in which you are in.
:))
The only difference between Dr. Torvalds and other Drs is that Dr. Torvalds did not apply for his PhD, but still went through _all_ the work any other graduate student would go through.
And he did it in a lot less then the normally allocated seven years, too. Linus fully deserves this.
(Now he just has to write a book - if he hasn't already.
OFTC: By the community, for the community
will be pissing blood when GateZ gets through with ass raping it with is powerful software.
Hmm, that explains why I have been seeing boxes on the shelves at CompUSA with the above title.
Since he is a pursuer of Open Source/Free Code, he should, in the public's interest, never turn down anything that is free. Of course, after receiving the degree, he give the degree away to anyone who wants to use it for their need, whether it is for someone to get tenure, or somebody who needs to get into a beer joint and need a proof of age. This passing on allows the source sharing to advance to another level.
If the Universities does want to be upstaged by Dr. Linus himself, they all should be giving honorary degrees to everyone, providing truely "free" schooling.
As specified by others above, it ain't whether you finished kindergarten or not, it is what you achieved afterward. This would level the playing field, so that Corporate pigs would not weed out the best and leave the scraps for the open source movement. And maybe M$ could hire some Cambridge Doctorates who original were destined to flipping burgers.
And that, my friend, is exactly why most people consider him to be a rebel.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
On the surface, I'm inclined to agree: a Masters' Degree implies having done original work, and a Doctorate implies having added to the sum total of human knowledge. Linus Torvalds has certainly done the former, but not the latter. That said, there's no denying that his work was done at the "right time" to strike a responsive chord. You don't have to be original in order to have made a worthwhile contribution to the hacker community -- you just have to be first to do "the right thing". Of course, William Gates III also did the "right thing" at the right time -- buying the rights to DOS and marketting a ubiquitous computing environment for the masses. The only difference is that one is just famous and the other is rich as well (not that I think that Dr. Torvalds is hurting financially). Of course, there is not enough money to buy the kind of respect that Torvalds has. If anything, it strikes me that the university that conferred the honourary doctorate may be trying to ride on the coat-tails on Linus' fame -- it really means nothing. Is he any smarter for it? No. Let's certainly give credit for what Linus Torvalds has done for hackers. A degree conferred for possibly questionable reasons does not strike me as the kind of credit I would have in mind, though. A degree is just a piece of paper (well, sheepskin, traditionally). By itself, it means little . I've met people without degrees that were really smart and I've met people with degrees that were, well, not as smart (to put it kindly). About the only thing a degree is good for is impressing people who are impressed by degrees -- IOW, if lots of people will pay me more because I've got some little piece of paper, and it's real easy for me to earn it, then why not get the degree? Now, it would be easy for me to discount the significance of a degree if I didn't have one. But, in fact, I have both a Bachelors' (with honours) and a Masters' degree in computer science. My usual thought of people who are impresssed by that is "Gee, it takes little to impress him/her". I suspect that Linus Torvalds might have similar thoughts. Regards, Rene S. Hollan (posting anonymously from home -- I really don't need the karma).
On the surface, I'm inclined to agree: a Masters' Degree implies having done original work, and a Doctorate implies having added to the sum total of human knowledge. Linus Torvalds has certainly done the former, but not the latter.
That said, there's no denying that his work was done at the "right time" to strike a responsive chord. You don't have to be original in order to have made a worthwhile contribution to the hacker community -- you just have to be first to do "the right thing".
Of course, William Gates III also did the "right thing" at the right time -- buying the rights to DOS and marketting a ubiquitous computing environment for the masses.
The only difference is that one is just famous and the other is rich as well (not that I think that Dr. Torvalds is hurting financially). Of course, there is not enough money to buy the kind of respect that Torvalds has.
If anything, it strikes me that the university that conferred the honourary doctorate may be trying to ride on the coat-tails on Linus' fame -- it really means nothing. Is he any smarter for it? No.
Let's certainly give credit for what Linus Torvalds has done for hackers. A degree conferred for possibly questionable reasons does not strike me as the kind of credit I would have in mind, though.
A degree is just a piece of paper (well, sheepskin, traditionally). By itself, it means little . I've met people without degrees that were really smart and I've met people with degrees that were, well, not as smart (to put it kindly). About the only thing a degree is good for is impressing people who are impressed by degrees -- IOW, if lots of people will pay me more because I've got some little piece of paper, and it's real easy for me to earn it, then why not get the degree?
Now, it would be easy for me to discount the significance of a degree if I didn't have one. But, in fact, I have both a Bachelors' (with honours) and a Masters' degree in computer science. My usual thought of people who are impresssed by that is "Gee, it takes little to impress him/her". I suspect that Linus Torvalds might have similar thoughts.
Regards,
Rene S. Hollan (posting anonymously from home -- I really don't need the karma).
So his Torvaldness gets his honorably doctorate degree. What about Alan Cox, and all other contributors to the Linux / Open-source movement?
What about the people of FSF? Aren't their contribution important as well?
Hmmm....
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
So.. which part of that quote were you referring to in your statement..? Just in case, I'll examine the whole thing..
"He's just a really good hacker."
There are a lot of those around. They aren't considered rebellious, they're considered to "have a bright future" or "we need more of them".
"He doesn't care much about software politics."
Ok, now he's been lumped in with Joe Public and the rest of the "real world". I kind of doubt that would make him a rebel in the average person's eyes (unless you consider the average person to be someone who participates whole-heartedly in the BSD vs. GPL licensing holy war).
"He prefers free software, because he gets annoyed at not being able to fix bugs."
Maybe, at a stretch, you could consider this rebellious. Not when you consider the context, however. The point is, he doesn't care one way or the other. He isn't out to change anything. Therefore, he's not much of a rebel, now is he? If that /does/ make him a rebel, you should get a dictionary from a more *ahem* established source.
Richard Stallman, on the other hand, is mostly known for being a rebel at this point (even more than for his programming ability, one might say, even though he gave us the gift that is Emacs).
So, care to explain? I tire very easily of vague assertations, especially when they appear to be bereft of a stable foundation of /any/ kind..
~ Kish
You claim that the time period for a PhD is usually less than 4 years?? And that a bachelor+PhD should take 7 yrs total normally?? "Most people" get their PhDs by the time they're 26 or 27?
:) [ok there is some truth in that last bit]
Frankly, I do not know which planet you live on but here on Earth, I doubt if you can make such sweeping generalizations. I do not know exactly what the scene is like in the humanities or in Physics/Chemistry/Biology but speaking for Computer Science, the average would be around 5 yrs after bachelor's (speaking both from what I've seen after 3 yrs of grad school as well as from www.cra.org). If you're in theory, you tend to finish a little faster than in Systems, where you have to spend more time actually building something to evaluate. It also varies a lot from field to field (within CS) and from school to school. E.g., Out here in Wisconsin-Madison, a computer architecture PhD will easily take around 6 yrs on average. People at MIT take forever to graduate
Yumpee
A person who receives an honorary doctorate *shouldn't* call themselves a "Doctor." Linux Torvalds or not.
They *can*, but *shouldn't*. Besides not working for it, it devalues the degree for those who work for it. Plenty of people have honorary degrees certainly don't insist on the Dr title (and often keep it quiet, or suggest to not call them Dr). Example? "Dr." Anne Landers (you'll never see her call herself that). Of course, there are those that do, unfortunately.
I wasn't begging... I was just asking them to be sure why they were marking me down before they did. And was it really necessary to -1 my request for the moderator(s) to pause for a few seconds before commiting the changes? Stuff like this doesn't have it's own forum to be discussed in...
--
Q: Dr. Linus, for the past few weeks my throat has been itchy, my nose has been stuffed up and I've been waking up in the middle of the night with my sheets soaked with sweat. I've tried taking asprin, tylenol and advil but nothing seems to work. What would you suggest? Your standard decongestants haven't been doing the trick either. - Joey Buttafuco
Suddenly I feel compelled to change my vote in the Slashdot poll....
Alas, there is no "Dr. Linus Torvalds" option.
*sniff*
Honorary Doctorates are a waste of time. Sure Linus is a smart guy, so are a lot of peole but its not fair to those people who spent 8 years in college and hundreds of thousands of dollars to earn one (if you'll lcky a company will pay for 1/2 the costs).
I think that alone should qualify him.
If I remember correctly Bill Gates got an honorary doctorate from the only dutch private university Nijenrode. This university deals in business administration, and related subjects. No technology at all. Although they call themselves a university, it's more a school than an institution dedicated to science.
:)
The shop where I always go to rent black and white tie, and morning suits, showed me a picture of Bill in his white tie dress, receiving his doctorate, because he had provided the suit. After I told him I don't like old Bill all that much he started complaining about the lack of style on Bill's part because he wore sneakers under his white tie.
I quite enjoyed the sight of Bill dressed up as a penguin though.
Tob (who openly admits to actually enjoying wearing formal dress, as opposed to the norm in our circles.)
No, it wasn't necessary, but relax man. You've got enough karma to last you until rapture. Two negative points aren't gonna hurt you THAT bad, and the comment wasn't so important that the /. community needed to be reading it. Personally, I agree with you that moderators -1 comments too frequently - the moderation system is designed to promote good comments.
--
you must amputate to email me
i read all replies to my comments
And people donating money to colleges to get a building named after them or more often a honorary degree deserve it? I'm sorry but if colleges only ave them out to people who desreved it then it wouldn't bother me as much but colleges give out degrees left and right. Just so they can get good press or money.
I can see the media calling right now to congratulate him..
... What's up, doc? Heh, get it? Get it? What's up...--anyways, just called to get another quote for my article, and.." *CLICK* "..hello? Hello..? ... Aw man, not again.."
"Hello! Way to go, Linus! (Can I call you Linus?) Hey, I've always wanted to say this, so.. [ahem]
Poor Mr. Torvalds.. It's a good thing they're blocking his calls for him at work..
James
> Bill Gates: College dropout.
> Linus Torvalds: Doctor.
BG: FUD
LT: PhD
dave
I picked Dr. Evil, but now I want a recount.
What's wrong with Logan, or do they want one down the street? :-)
Is it common practice to refer to someone who recieves an honorary Doctorate as Dr.? Or another way to put it, does an honorary Doctorate carry the same weight as a PHD earned through school?
It was announced in May that he *would* receive an Honorary Doctorate. This article is about the fact that he actually *received* it.
Alan may have got his PhD back at Swansea along with the rest of us in the EE gang (I left around about the time of his arrival there). Or maybe he's still writing it up. Or maybe not. Dunno, ask him.
Whatever the answer is though, I bet he supports Linus's award totally. Just because so many other people have contributed to Linux doesn't in any way detract from Linus deserving this for the system which he started from scratch and for which he is the main standard bearer.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
"Was going to get" is old - from May. "Has gotten" is new; the ceremony was held Friday.
Wow, you're just so "wild." I'm sure all those "squares" have never run into someone as "avante garde" as you before. Undoubtedly, your "bohemian appearance/appendages/philosophy" really "throw them a curve." On behalf of all the normal, boring people, let me thank you for keeping us all "on our toes."
I have a theory I'd like some feedback on (yes, it's on-topic... =)
From what I can see (which is admitedly not much), it seems that the people who are _best_qualified_ to do computer jobs (with a few notable exceptions) are also the _least_credentialed_. All the CS BS degree holders I've ever seen are, shall we say, a little lacking in ablity. They know the theories, but they don't have *any* real-world experiance using those theories, and are no better than a beginner. However, those who decided to forgo college (usually because it seemed a waste of time for them, b/c they allready knew the material) have a lot of real world experiance, and are just better computer people.
ok, I'm done. Stick a fork in me...
-- ioctl
Just a quick post to give congratulations to one of the world's most famous programmers. It may be honorary, but Linus deserves that recognition for his work, and his inspiration for others to work alongside him.
Code on.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
honorary or otherwise, when you receive a PhD your "name" becomes "John Doe, PhD" not "Dr. John Doe".
"Linus Torvalds, PhD." -- that just sounds cool.
I'd like to see, for once, highly technical jobs that judged you on the basis of your skills instead of "I'm an MSCE", or "I have a BA in *blah*".
--
Incidentally, how come other major contributors to UNIX and Linux development (Rob Pike immediately comes to mind, as he only has a B.S. yet is a full research MTS at Bell Labs) haven't been conferred such honors? Why? Publicity. Hype. Lobbying. That's about it.
That's just the normal Swedish habit of stealing everything from us.. Now they are trying to steal Linus from Finns!
--
It has to work - rfc1925
It's good to see Dr. Torvalds finally recoginized. Redmond, by contrast, was founded by a Harvard dropout, and look what we wound up with. In fact the general belief is that if you want to be entrapranuarial (sp?) you shouldn't go to college. I hope Torvalds is the first of many exceptions to this "rule". We need quality technology leaders, not the crude brutes we seem saddled with.
Several things. Go research, and get your US-centric head out of your ass.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
I Guess this brings a whole new meaning to "Dr. Linux" :). Nice to see our favorite programmers well educated.
Indeed, congratulations. Moral objections to universities aside, Linus Torvalds deserves it very much -- a lot more than some others who have even real PhD's. He gave something to society, and this is yet another way of repaying him for it.
-cf
Think he got any Red Hat shares through the IPO? I mean, after all, if anyone deserved shares, it was him. :-)
...
He might be doing better than we think
D
----
I am not trying to start anything, but this has always been my opinion on the Linux god status... what did he do that was so great? he took an existing concept (Unix) applied it to an existing architecture (Intel x86) and released it under an existing license (GNU) he just got publcity. i am not saying he is not a good programmer (i was i was half as takented as he was), but he has not done anything ground breaking or new ore anything that already is out there (plenty of Unixen out there already) if he wrote it all himself, then i would be more impressed, but it's like saying i am a master musician because i can play the Bethoven and Bach on a guitar.....i might be a good musician, but far from a genius.
Linus already have a honorary doctorate here in sweden. I don't remember what school it was, but it was defenitly not one in Stockholm. By the way, RMS has a honorary doctorate at the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm.
"Bernoulli was wrong. X proves that you can fill a vacuum, yet still it sucks." - Dennis Ritchie
Well, at least according to THIS GUY.
Here in .au we have a HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme) where University costs approx $3,000/yr (australian - US$2,000). You can pay this upfront and receive a 10% discount, or it is taken out as an additional tax when your salary after graduation exceeds $27k
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
Yes, I also remember that Linus got a honorary doctorate. I believe it was the university of Uppsala, but I have not been able to find with any search-engines. I am quite certain of this, though.
confirmation anyone?
As far as been able to tell (I've been programming professionally since 1991). Neither means a damn alone. I've worked with people who have advanced degrees and college dropouts. The best people to work with are the ones that 'breathe' technology.
... EVERYTHING is data driven.
... the problem with the these generalizations is that neither means that you learned (internalized) anything. I've seen CS grads that didn't understand databases, understand structured code, etc. On the college drop out side I've never found one that didn't understand databases, but they may have misused them and/or wrote disasterously unmanagable code (it made perfect sense to them).
.. maybe you should get you hands on one of those software architecture books and figure out how to apply it to what you wrote, what you think could have been better, more flexable ... and for god's sake don't treat the flamin book like it's right and your wrong...for most of 'em 3/4 of it is utter crap and/or too specific to a particular domain to be of much use ...
There are a few things that I think gave me an advantage starting out: A solid math/physics background of proofs and derivations. This is essentially all programming is, though very simplified for the majority of it. The other is a bit of advice from the best prof I had
That said the program snippets that you write in college are usually too trivial to give you even a sense of what a robust application is -- so the programming exp isn't.
Most college CS can give you some background on the (non-obvious) paths to disaster in software projects. Listening to the old guys that have BTDT can do the same
You do need to know some theory and you need to spend some time applying it to the real world. If you got a CS degree and can't figure out how to apply the theory, maybe you should've paid attention in those physics or chem classes (that's what the real value of them are after all).
If you've just hacked together a game
Just 'cause it works that way doens't mean it's the best way.
Yup, that was what I thought as well. It certainly feels like the university is just trying to cash in on Linus's newfound fame. It could also be that they are trying to show the IT companies of Sweden that they dig the new technlogy and are hip with all the latest trends... :(
Rob has clearly put out the poll for "the most powerful doctor" too early. Linus is by far the post powerful doctor.
Hamal is an yellow star in the constallation Aries.
It is 66ly away, so it doesn't alter your personality.
Don't think so. The swedish universities differs in that from the american counterparts. The do not give away honorary doctorates freely or as a "thank you" for a monetary donation.
It doesn't work like that in Sweden. It wouldn't matter if you would donate one billion dollars. You still wouldn't get a honorate docatorate.
heh, same here
I'm not so sure of that. Perhaps he could earn a PhD in sociology by turning Linux development into a thesis on large-scale cooperation in software development. However, I doubt anybody would accept "I wrote a UNIX clone for the x86" as a computer science thesis.
As for the time period, the time period is normally seven years *total*, that's bachelor's plus PhD (PhD's rarely take more than 4 years by themselves), and Linus has taken more than that. Most people get their PhDs by the time they're 26 or 27 or so, and Linus is 29.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
LOL
sort of like the marketing department telling the engineering department that their product is technically inferior...
I wonder how this guy gets off calling Torvlads a "pompus ass"???
Hopefully he can go down in history as the man who started the revolution that brang down Microsoft and revolutionarized the computer industry!
One thing I've never understood about honorary doctorates is who is it best for? Are the universities being selfish, wanting to claim the next great mind or famous person as their own? Like universities giving honorary degrees and such to movie stars. I think Linus totally deserves the title Dr. and he's done more than the equivalent of work to get it. But is the University of Stockholm in it just to claim him and his lately growing fame as their's also? I'm just supicious of motives is all:)
-growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional
Really this is a case of politics. His contribution amounts to a small amount of one element of the computer system. His name rarely appears in any of the man pages or kernel source files and how much are you actually going to get done with just the kernel? How many times is Linus the one to ask when you're having trouble getting something done on Linux?
51% noted :)
:)
But how does one go about awarding "a community" for something?
Good one Linus, good one everybody
~Tim
--
Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
Exactly. I couldn't have said it better. (I too have a Masters in computer science, by the way.)
I suspect that Linus Torvalds might have similar thoughts.
I would be surprised if he doesn't.
--
Linux user since early January 1992.
Education are free, but you are kiked of quickly if you don't get 60% for each subject.
Now Linus should be in the :)
Slashdot Poll for most powerful doctor
Let's start a poll for that
the pun is mightier than the sword
I suppose George Bush being given an honorary degree by the University of Toronto (at a ceremony which half of the faculty walked out of in protest) rather blows a hole in this theory.
Honorary degrees are often bandied around by institutions to give them good press and get them in well with the famous and influential. Whilst I can see Linus' contributions to computing are as good a portfolio of evidence as any thesis, I certainly wouldn't suggest that honorary degrees, which are given out generally for political rather than academic reasons, are "closer to what the real meaning of the degree should be."
So yes, congratulations to Dr Linus Torvalds, but we all knew you were this good before any university thought what good publicity they could get out of it.
Well, obviously, you can't. Let me put it this way.. I don't have a problem with anyone awarding Linus. He's a good guy, he's a good hacker, and he's contributed.. a lot. The same reasons why I think it's cool that Richard Stallman and Larry Wall got awards for their contributions. I simply think they could phrase the reasons for awarding him a little better. I like and support all of the above parties, but the misconceptions and outright lies are getting to be a little too much.
I can see us reading books decades from now that mention vague references to "an earlier inventor of what we all came to know and love as Linux..".. Like the forgotten pages of history or something. ;)
~ Kish
Being you're talking about complete stupidity here, who not add Dr Seuss to. Seems logical.
I think we should be take the most powerful doctor poll again. With Linus added.
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -- George Orwell
Isn't it odd that this is the week the slashdot poll is asking about the most powerful doctors? Looks like we should add a new name to the list!
Daniel
That's the way universities work these days. They know you've got money and they know what you want, so they make you pay the money until they decide to let you get what you want.
if you have a doctorate, you are entitled to add Dr. to the front of your name, however, you can also (and most do I beleive) append MD or PHD to the end of their name, so represent what sort of doctor they are, medical or otherwise (I havn't seen anything other then MD and PHD, well, not counting DDS [dentist] and a few other submedical ones)
This is only true in cases either 1) when the field requires a Ph.D for a job to be attained, or 2) when the person elects to pursue a Masters and a Ph.D as a full time pursuit.
Fields like education typically do not have 26 and 27 year old Ph.Ds. My parents are both doctors of education (mother is a Ph.D and father is an Ed.D), and neither of them got it until they were past 35 years old (my dad got it at 38, and my mom got it at about 43). They both held full time teaching positions while they were pursuing their graduate schooling, and it took my parents 16 and 21 years, respectively, to get their doctorates.
Now, a physics person who can get into a graduate school (and afford the cost) straight out of college CAN finish a Ph.D in about 3 or 4 years. But the length of the doctoral thesis (the paper itself, mind you; not the actual work involved) is about a tenth of that required of someone studying in education or English. The difference between physics Ph.Ds and Ph.Ds or Ed.Ds or whatnot in the humanities is that the people in the humanities tend to get their degrees while holding steady jobs in the field, while high level physics degrees are typically required to land desirable jobs in the field.
Warning: The opinions expressed herein are strong, and may warrant others to label it "flame bait" or "troll".. However, you may want to pause and consider a few moments before rendering a verdict. ;)
"A small element, but essential - where would the open-source movement be today without a favourite OS underneath it?"
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm skeptical about the Hurd, although I'm confident that if the Linux kernel hadn't stolen the spotlight, it would have been ready long ago (not much interest in developing it since we already have a GPL'ed kernel, after all).
"(No, I'm not saying open-source wouldn't exist, nor that it's only linux that's open-source. But there is a 'certain relationship' between the d00ds at the FSF and, say, Debian...)"
That registers even less. So who are we blaming for the GNU/Linux OS here..? Are we calling the kernel the OS..? It just doesn't.. add.. up.. Not how it was stated, anyway. Of course, I can't help but wonder if you are implying that the FSF is a bunch of warez d00dz of not.. ;)
Also, who the hell cares where the "open source movement" would be? That's the most idiotic thing anyone ever came up with. Personally, I think that ESR is a fool, even though he is a big contributor. "Open source", indeed. That term is sooo easily corrupted. The thought of trademarking it to avoid such corruption is completely ridiculous. Open source means less than nothing. It certainly doesn't imply "free software". The SCSL is open source. So is the NPL. Does that make them good licenses? Don't worry, you won't have to put your thinking caps on for this one: The answer is NO!
At least the BSD license doesn't try to sucker you. It lets you know up front that it's just a step away from being "public domain". There wouldn't even be an open source movement if not for the free software movement, the original and other faction in the community. Free software is also a little bit ambiguous, thanks to the "intricacies" of the English language.. However, it's a little harder for companies to corrupt, don't you think? After all, not all "open source" products are necessarily zero-cost, so the other meaning of the term wouldn't apply too well on those. Even if it did, you wouldn't be so easily suckered because you would realize there was a couple definitions. Just look at the license. The term "open source" is a lot easier to rip apart through the media. Everyone can get a warm fuzzy feeling about the latest "open source" project..
Ugh.
~ Kish
I think it rather odd that they chose Linus of all people to refer to as a "rebel". I don't think there's anything particular "rebellious" about him. He's just a really good hacker. He doesn't care much about software politics. He prefers free software, because he gets annoyed at not being able to fix bugs, but he's not against proprietary software either. He doesn't really care. People can use whatever.
If someone would care to explain why this makes him a rebel, please feel free. :)
They got the "computer genious" part thing right though.. Though I could have done with the obligatory Transmeta plug..
~ Kish
Harvard will make him a doctor in 10-20 years, or so, they want to get the full amount. BTW, I don't think that my post was flaim bait, It was true, if they thought that he was worth a doctorate they wwouldn't be taking his money, they will let him buy it, but only after they have enough of his money to build an International Airport.
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
I was told that a doctorate was awarded for
expanding the field of human knowledge, this is
the reason you have to choose a unique field
when you do one at college.
Linus has, (possibly inadvertantly at the time)
changed how we look at computer software.
I also think he has expanded the field of
achievements in computer science. 7 years ago
when I first saw the paradigm he was putting
forward I knew this was something new which was
only then starting to become reality due to the
internet.
I believe he may deserve a doctorate for three
reasons...
1) He's a very good programmer and a smart cookie.
2) He's popularised a new way of producing software.
3) He's changed the course of history.
Now he'll have to field silly phone calls from
panicing babysitters who pick up the phone book
and look at the first Dr. they see.
-- Don't believe everything you read, hear or think
What do you say we add Dr. Linus to the current poll? Him and Dr. Strangelove would be tough competition.
in swedish....
http://nyheter.idg.se/display.pl?ID=990927-CS14
Umm, your own numbers seem to support my age range. You say it takes 5 years after earning a bachelor's, or 6 for some fields. Since most people finish a bachelor's degree in 4 years, and are therefore 22, that would mean they earn their PhD by the time they're 27 or 28. I said "26 or 27," which is pretty darn close.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
You'll notice that we're talking about computer science, which is a math/science degree. We're not talking about English or Humanities PhD's - I know that these take longer.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Agreed, but that is not consistent with saying "most PhDs take less than 4 years" or "bachelor+PhD = 7 yrs." So I will stick my head out and say that a CS PhD will take on average 5 years to finish and your age will be 27 on average. For an average, a year more or less does make a difference. Ask the people who are in the process of graduating!
Yumpee
Remember DR DOS?
Simple things should be simple, complex things should be possible.
The thing I hate about honorary degrees, is that a college can give them out to anyone. Now, some rich guy can just donate to a college and get an honorary degree (if it's a college in need of money), and he can say, "Well, Linus Torvalds also received an honorary degree." I'd much rather write on a resume:
Name: Linus Torvalds
as opposed to:
Received Honorary Doctorate from Podunk University.
27 years of programming is not the same as an academic title.
"But counting soley on a degree to evaluate a person's worth is plain oversimplification"
I agree with you on that.
"A technical exam at the interview is both more fair and certain."
There's a lot more than technique you learn at a university. You can't test that in a simple technical exam. A university diploma certifies you as a person who got through a school that is known to be tough and challenging. This qualifies you as somebody with a certain amount of cleverness. On the otherhand if you drop out of college, that generally is a sign that you don't have what it takes to finnish college. This does not necessarily qualify you as an idiot but it is not exactly proof of the opposite either.
"But honorary PhDs are closer to what the real meaning of the degree should be"
Honorary Ph Ds are usually given to people who contributed in a positive way to society. Nelson Mandela for instance has several honorary Ph Ds. Seen in this light, Linus Torvalds Ph D. is entirely justified since he contributed to society. A honorary Ph D. is not the same as a normal Ph. D. since it does not have the requirement that you also contributed to science (which neither Mandela or Torvalds has done as far as I know). Often of course honorary Ph. Ds are given to people who did contribute to science but that is beside the point. It is not a requirement for receiving one.
A degree merely classifies you as somebody who reached a certain milestone. To get one you have to pass tests. If you fail those tests you don't reach your milestone (at least not in a verifiable way) and you don't get a degree. It's that simple.
So when you apply for a job and you can say I have this degree, your future employer knows what you are capable of.
Jilles
If you say so.. I guess. I don't think I "almost" have anything. I'm pretty well versed on the relavent facts. My point being that Linus is hardly the main contributor. No one is the main contributor. Unless you count the community as a whole. Some individuals have contributed more than others, but /no one person/ has single-handedly developed 51% of the GNU/Linux system. Not even close. Not by a mile.
Hence, three cheers for the community.
~ Kish
You think writing about how good an idea OSS developement would be worth a PhD, but actually doing it, being compared to the richest company, changing the way many people think about software, AND bringing Unix to the (cheap hardware) of the desktop, isn't?
(I know he didn't do it alone, but it wouldn't have been done without him.)
+&x
I read somewhere that he actually did submit the Linux source code as his doctoral thesis.
I think he has a real Doctorate already. As far as I know Linus spent the better part of his youth at University. he left at 27, which means he was there for 8 or 9 years. Linus is a brilliant kid from a family that values education in a country the subsidizes it heavily.
What are the odds of him not completing a doctorate in all that time ?
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Or a PhD in Psychology. He figured out how to get an army of highly paid people to work for nothing.
I like dressing up Both in my fancy SCA stuff
as well as in Fancy "Mundanes". I look good in
both a suit and a Tux. I think the thing is
you have to get a reasonably good suit or tux.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
Oops, my bad!
Dr. Linus Torvalds sounds *really* cool, and I believe he deserves it, but I find these kind of things annoying. When a person works to achieve a level high enough to earn a Dr. in front of their name, they should be recognized for that. Linus Torvalds is best known for one thing. Linux. And though Linux rocks beyond belief, he shouldn't be getting the same recognition as someone who has worked to get a college degree. The two activities are not comparable.
Linus deserves an award, but not this one.
aÍÍ©ÍÌÍ£Ì'̽ͩÌÍzÍYÌÍÌY
Nobody forces you to pay taxes, since nobody forces you to hold down a job that earns more than the tax threshold. Therefore, you pay the government back only if you freely choose to do so, and it is very well possible to get a completely free education. "Free" as in "free beer" as in "somebody else pays".
Actually, in many countries the effective cost of education is negative because every student who needs it gets a stipend. These societies don't consider education to be a service for sale, but a right that everybody has.
--
and this is part of a horrid breach of etiquitte by the medical profession.
The M.D. was constructed specifically to borrow the legitimacy of the Doctors of the Universities, in an attempt to produce physcians that were something short of dangerous.
Having insisted on being called Dr. for several generations, even though they lacked the distinguishing characteristic of Doctors--the contribution of new knowledge, they then attempted to monopolize the title, as "real doctors."
The holder Ph.D. is a Doctor, those with M.D.'s and J.D.'s are not.
Dr. Hawk, J.D., Ph.D., Esq.
that Caldera's new distro will be called "DR Linux"?
See you, space cowboy...
FYI I did read the article, however you will also note that on simmilar threads I have posted questioning followers of linux blindness (remember his management quip about how ISDN support maintainers get off their ass and get the product out the door?)
The swedish school is just trying to steal Linus and all the fame because not only he has a swedish name now he's also a doc in sweden. They're just jealous he's a finn and honorary dr titles are mostly given by universities other than your own for no other reason than to show that "we care" etc and to gain some publicity.
I'm not so sure that I disagree this time.. ;)
(warning: mildly inside joke..)
~ Kish
I had originally intended on ignoring the lack of attention to detail.. However.. The man who set down the rather expansive foundation for this great accomplishment, perhaps..?
Of course, if you really get down to it, no one person should recieve all the credit for creating the GNU/Linux system. Yes, Richard Stallman started it all, gave us Emacs, GCC, and so much more, gave us the GPL, and began a philosophical movement (which has now been factionized and corrupted). Yes, Linus Torvalds gave us the Linux kernel. Yes, this is all very good. The reality of it, however, is despite the fact that the GNU Project held it together until Linus gave them a final piece to their creation (and the rest being history, as they say..), it took a vast array of individuals all over the world to really bring all of this into being.
One person, or even a small group of people, can't put an entire OS together from scratch (well, not in any /sane/ amount of time). With the contributions of like-minded people from far and wide, however.. Well, we all know what can be accomplished when /that/ happens. :)
The true accomplishment, then, is the community's. Of which people like Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds are a part. Yes, they are widely renowned and respected (and even famous enough to be otherwise.. ;), but they are still a part of the community, and the entire community deserves the credit.
~ Kish
--
should automatically be labelled Dr. Linux Torvalds as the most powerful doctor :-)
Well, I think he does deserve it.. after all, he did start the key element for SlashDot.. could you imagine Rob coding in ASP? Hahaha.. too funny. Heard of Slash-PHP, try Slash-ASP..
I'm still not quite sure about an Honorary vs. a "Normal" doctorn (I think that's how you spell it) but either way he does deserve it.. that and every other member who's every contributed to Linux, but we all know that's not going to happen soon.
Peace and Pancakes,
Matthew
_____________________________________
sortakinda.ca | canadian paraphrasing.
Reasons why David Copperfield is satan:
1) Fame
2) Fortune
3) Claudia Schiffer
4) earns living by f***ing with mortals through impossible illusions
It took him 8 years to complete his masters. ... ;-)
Dunno what took him so long? He must have
been busy doing other things
send + more == money?
Everything in this day and age revolves around politics and PR issues, however. Most people seem to ignore the fact that Richard Stallman begat the GNU Project, which began this whole thing. And more importantly, that it wasn't just Stallman or Torvalds who put the entire thing together. There are many key contributors.. And beyond the more "well-known", there are thousands of hackers who have added something here or there.. Without the assistance of all of these different people from all over the world, nothing would have been possible.
Anyway, to add a little sense into my usual rant, if you always asked Torvalds for help when you had a problem with your OS, you'd get the stick. Big time. ;) It sort of depends on what the problem is in regards to as to who you should ask.. The GNU Project is usually a good default for someone to bother (especially if it's GNU software.. not much of that floating around these days, is there..?).
(As an aside, all of those "Stallman-slammers" who think he's an egotistical bastard who never did anything to deserve credit.. credit being something he doesn't seem to care about anyway.. I wonder what compiler you use..? ;)
~ Kish
An honorary doctorate is *honorary* (would you believe it), ie. it's an honour bestowed on someone rather than a target towards which one can work.
I happen to think that Linus is worth honouring. How can anyone (at least outside of Microsoft) possibly disagree with this?
As for it not being in "as high" a category as a doctorate earned through several years of labour in academia, as some have said or implied, I think that's rubbish. I gained mine the conventional way, yet I have nothing but admiration for Linus's work and for his new title, which is well-earned and well-deserved.
Well done Linus! (And well done University of Stockholm too.)
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Especially when ones personally appearance is at odds with accepted norms.
Two feet of ponytail and 4 inches of beard combined with formal evening wear (DJ/tux) really "freaks out the squares" - especially combined with a pair of hi-tops.
I attended my companys Xmas party at the London Hilton Hotel like this...
This sig left unintentionally blank.
Sigh.
I guess that's a recruitment site for PHBs.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Skill is needed to pass an education successfully.
An education is needed to test and verify your skills.
Hard work is to show your skill during college.
All in all, you need skill, motivation and an education.
One can be very smart, but how much can you learn without knowledge which took thousands of years to leran? Algebra is a nice example. Recompiling a kernel doesn't require math skills at all, but compiling kernels and writing shell scripts doesn't make you a great programmer.
It's the allround package that counts, including fundamental computer science knowledge which mostly has to be taught through education AND the self-learning aspect, which dedicated students have. I'm a college student myself and I know how important a degree is, not only for the money, but also for a broader knowledge of computer science.
These days a hefty donation to the college of your choice could be enough to get you an honorary degree, and Gates certainly has enough money. A few places were offering to essentially sell an honorary degree for around 10 grand.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Ok, I know this is slightly off topic, but Signal 11, you need to let your comment to speak for itself. Your comment wasn't even moderated down yet, and yet you have already decided that you will be pegged a troll. Rob has been working his ass off to make sure comments are rated with fairness, and I think he's done a pretty good job. Lets say someone drops your comment by a point. You have all the other moderators who could push it back up, as well as metamoderators who would remove the privilages from the offending moderator. So next time, instead of spending time begging for moderators to not moderate your comment down, put the time back into your initial comment.
I'm completely with you on the general uselessness of college certification. After all, I'm a college dropout myself but like to pretend that 27 years programming means something too. This is not to say that lots of smart people don't have degrees, or that college is a bad idea, they do and it's not. But counting soley on a degree to evaluate a person's worth is plain oversimplification. A technical exam at the interview is both more fair and certain.
But honorary PhDs are closer to what the real meaning of the degree should be. Someone who has not only mastered their field, but contributed to it significantly. In that sense I think this award to Dr. Torvalds is right on, and he deserves congratulations for it. If only all degrees were so well bestowed.
It's really cool that Mr. Torvalds is getting some recognition, asides from the main stream media.
Think this will improve the standing of Linux with PHBs?
My congrats go out to him.
Aaron "PooF" Matthews
E-mail: aaron@fish.pathcom.com
To mail me remove "fish."
ICQ: 11391152
Quote: "Success is the greatest revenge"
It simply means that an institution of higher learning has chosen to grant somebody a high honor for whatever reason of their choice. Some places (e. g. MIT) don't grant them at all; others (such as the little red brick community college up the creek, sometimes known as Harvard) do.
I don't believe that it entitles him to use "Dr." as a title. So in some ways it means more, and in more ways it means less, than a true PhD. But it certainly indicates that a (in this case prestigious) institution of higher learning has seen fit to bestow a major honor on him. To reject it (as a few people suggested) would be a major insult, I should think.
Linus has certainly done a lot of good for a lot of people. See, for example, the project in Mexico placing computers running Linux in classrooms -- Microsoft software is simply too expensive to permit that. One can argue about how much code Linus has written vs. the FSF vs. Berkeley vs. the other kernel hackers, but there's little question in my mind that he did considerably more than just be in the right place at the right time and go along for the ride.
Congratulations, Linus!
Also, I have observed several electrical engineers working towards, and in most cases also obtaining, their PhD. While these PhDs mean a lot more than `our' chemistry ones, if only because only a small minority of electrical engineers (i.e. the smartest) even think of working towards one and get a chance to do so, I must still say that in general I don't value them all that much. I guess I know too much about how things work in that comunity.
Important notice: the above only describes overall impressions, not the individual people who all worked really hard, who were to some extent victims of the ``corporate culture of their field of research'', and who deserve to be rewarded for their efforts. On the other hand, I might also add that these views are shared by some very smart and really-PhD-deserving people who either have obtained their PhD but know and treat it for what it is, or who have quit exactly because the reasons that I indicate.
Back to the original topic: Linus fully deserves his honorary doctorate. Also, I have no doubt that he has what it takes to get a non-honorary one like I know them in the EE field. Whether he would deserve something even more solid I cannot know, but I tend to think that he does.
Two Issues:
a) Linus wrote the Linux kernel, he hasn't lifted a finger towards marketing it. Perhaps you might argue he enabled others (eg: Redhat, etc) to pursue such a model....
b) The whole Open Source business model is far from proven in my mind. We only have one significant company to point to, and that is Redhat software. While I like Redhat and would love to see them succeed; lets be realistic here. Redhat is a startup company, which isn't even profitable yet. Their current revenues are NOT coming from the much hyped "support" model, but rather from selling shrink wrapped CDs. What they're essentially selling is convenience. There "convenience" sales are not insignificant, but I have my doubts as to weather that will hold out. Futhermore, RedHat hasn't produced all that much in terms of code (not that I fault them in the least). They simply didn't have the resources and most of the work is/was done the the community.
What has one ever heard of Stockholm University?
Gee, well, that's nice for Linus and all, and I'm happy for him. It doesn't entitle him to call himself Dr. Torvalds, but who cares? He's a smart guy, did great work for the open source community, and deserves to be rewarded for it. What this really means to his life and work, though, is probably nothing...
Incidentally, how come other major contributors to UNIX and Linux development (Rob Pike immediately comes to mind, as he only has a B.S. yet is a full research MTS at Bell Labs) haven't been conferred such honors? Why? Publicity. Hype. Lobbying. That's about it.
Linux is a good OS, but it's not the end-all and be-all of UNIXen and UNIX-like variant OSes (sorry, but I pick OSes by their strengths for a particular job, and I will go to NetBSD, Solaris, and Irix as much as Linux... and NT on those rare occasions where it makes sense...), but the one thing it has over all others is good PR (and impeccable (Internet) timing)...
o/~ we are pissed, we are pissed, we have to resist... o/~ - ec8or
If I remember correctly, Bill Gates was a dropout, but made billions. On the other hand, Linus (or should I say Dr. Torvalds) didn't drop out, but is not the richest man in the world.
Just another reason why college is a Good Thing...
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
...that the price of blessed emperor penguin pee will go up?
i think not...
i have misplaced my signature.