Slashdot Mirror
Your Next Pointer Device?
Anonymous Coward writes "Replacements for the rodent on your desktop are regularly being introduced. Here's yet another pointing device for you. A pen connected via radio to your PC. Movement is tracked by measuring the rolling of a small ball at the tip of the pen. This means it works on any surface. Take a look here.
No Linux drivers yet, and I'll wait for the USB version. But I like the idea of a pen."
I've used pen devices. Granted, they were tethered, but the same problem applies: It's a pain in the ass to keep putting down and picking up a pen. Impractical for those of us that switch back and forth from the keyboard to the mouse frequently.
I don't know about anybody else, but I am ALWAYS misplacing my pens. :-)
:-)
And if I write for a long time, I get cramps in my hand which are just as painful to me as RSI. I think I'll stick with my Logitech Trackman Marble Wheel. Since I got that here at work my wrists haven't bothered me one bit (except for when I fell on one, but I don't think I can blame that on the trackball).
Real Purty, though.
-- I'm omnipotent, I just don't care.
-- IANAEG - I am not an elder god.
Mac graphic artists have been using pens for years with their graphic tablets; I assumed these could be used as mouses as well.
If I use anything other than a mouse, it's going to be a Twiddler. Which is cooler than any mere pen, except possibly one that blows up when you click it three times.
I think the mouse is probably the best general purpose pointing tool. It's a simple device you can flop your hand on and shove around, and for general pointering (not a word, I made it up) its accurate enough. What this pen would be nice for is for artists and the like. People who do online comics is the first idea that comes to mind. Holding a pen isn't a relaxed enough motion for me to ever use it for general pointering. (there it goes again)
:)
Different tools for different tasks I guess.
Regardless, I want one.
kaniff -- Ralph Hart Jr
Geez, and I thought web sites that required javashit for navigation were lame. This one appears to require Shockwave, for God's sake. Or am I totally misinterpreting what that thingy on the left side is supposed to be?
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
I've read a review about these things in some computer magazine, can't remember which. they said they where a pain to operate because you had to press the pen down hard to get a good grip. so these things will make RSI even worse.
---
These things are not new; I first saw one about five years ago. They generally got very bad reviews from users. Apparently the small ball makes the whole concept unworkable.
With all the repetitive motion problems we're having, perhaps the best solution is a variety of pointing devices. When your mouse muscles start to ache switch to a pen pointer, or a touch screen, etc.
Well, my nifty new radio pen rolled off my slanted ergonomic desk (it didn't alert the computer to that fact by radio) and I rolled over its nice ergonomic surface with my ergonomic chair... erg!
I lose pens unless I put them in my pen cup (an inconvenient place for a pointing device.) But my mouse always peeks out from beneath the junk piles on my desk, and its strung up by the tail to prevent it from straying too far.
Yuk...for general pointing use a pen would be awefully. The reason your hand gets cramped when you write a lot is because it is not normal to scrunch it up into the awkward position require to hold a pen. The mere awkwardness of having to /hold/ something to point would be annoying. A mouse just sits there...if I want to move it I move it. I don't haven to pick it up and then put it on some surface to make contact. A cylander is just too awkard to use except for activities that require micro-motor skills (writing). A pen is no good for macro-motor activities.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I absolutely adore my pen. I have a Wacom Artpad II tablet, and I just keep the pen in my left hand all the time, even while typing. It works quite well, and there is absolutely no matching it for accuracy at doing design work and drawing.
On the other hand, I do have my mouse hooked up too, because pens just aren't as usable for applications like word processing where you don't use them much. And they are absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to use in fps games! Try it sometime, get into q3demo and try mousing around with a pen. It goes insane!
IF you like this idea, try this :
= 21596955211819&cd=OU202
http://www.computergate.com/cgi-bin/prodinfo?sn
at only $18 and has DB9 connector, works for linux.
Anyone know how to convert PC keyboards/mice for sun boxes???
This sounds like a great idea and it could really revolutionize the way you interact with your computer. Unfortunately for the folks at FreePen, I hold the patent on "stick shaped object used for actual or simulated writing". They haven't contacted my people for permission yet, so who knows when this may actually make it to the US market.
Straight from the page:
There were no repetitive strain injuries caused by the usage of the mouse until we got the PC.
Um.. Well considering that when we got the PC, we got the mouse, I guess there weren't many mouse-related injuries...before the mouse. Ha!
But seriously, this mouse could be sorta nice for basic computing but when it comes to gaming and stuff you'd just need a mouse, hands down. So I'm happy with a regular ol' IntelliMouse Pro from now on.
I use a Wacom PenPartner 4x5 tablet-and-cordless-pen myself, and it is MUCH better than using a mouse.
I don't see that this pen would be an improvement over a conventional pen and tablet. If anything, I see these disadvantages:
1. Since there is no tablet, this pen works in "Relative" mode only, like a mouse. So you have to keep picking up the pen and bringing it back to center to move a large distance. It's just as annoying as a mouse that way.
2. The pens you use with most tablets do not actually touch the surface of the tablet unless you are left-clicking. With this you have to keep the ball rolling, so there's more friction (minute, but still there). Plus, clicking seems more like it would just be "pressing harder than you are now", which doesn't lend itself to great accuracy.
It's a neat idea, but I'll keep my PenPartner.
(Now if only there was support for it in gpm...)
It would take one *hell* of a pen in order for me to give up my intellimouse explorer. Its the only M$ product I actually like. Look ma, no mouse ball, and I can run it on my pants! I haven't tried it on one of my linux boxes, but it should work -- You can use the generic mouse drivers on it, you just don't get access to the 2 extra buttons.
I'll leave using-a-pen-as-a-pointing-device to my Palm, thanks.
As a sometimes graphic-artist (read: I doodle on PS in my spare time), I think this is a kickass innovation. The mouse, as a drawing tool, frankly, sucks ass. I can render a human figure in perhaps three minutes with a pen, but with a mouse it takes endless hours of correction to get it right. Forget about subtle things like shading/cross-hatching or anything remotely artistically complex. Mice STINK for drawing.
Also lightpens are just as irritating, because if you don't maintain contact with the surface properly, you're screwed. I'd like to see something that's easy to control the motion of, like a pen. For most of you, precise control isn't that important - just gotta center the mouse on the button/url/whatever and click. If you want to draw a nice curve, though, mice are horrid and disgusting. I, for one, will buy this pen ASAP.
SA
Ya know how your hand hurts from clenching a mouse too much? Think how it will be to hold a pen all day.
Touch screen would be a lot better. I don't know why they aren't more popular. You could use your finger for most things, like menus, resizing, moving windows. You would probably need a little pointer gizmo on a ring on the end of your finger for cut and paste, but it would be so easy to use, you'd forget you had it on.
--
Infuriate left and right
Imagine picking up a pen every time you want to move your mouse pointer. The act of moving my right hand from keyboard to mouse and back is annoying enough. I would hate to have to actually pick something up and situate it in a proper writing grip.
Neat idea, but not really useful enough imho to become a Big Thing (tm). The big obstacle to more effective computing right now (especially in the light of the portable/handheld 'revolution' going on right now) is human interface. We should be looking for faster, more efficient ways to interface with our computers, if you think RAM is a bottleneck, think about physical interface :)
What would not long ago have been considered high-end 3d technology (hardware in particular) is becoming more and more accessable for the home user. If I can play a high-demand game like quake2 in beautifully textured 3d space (complete with colored lighting, etc.) why can't my desktop and general interface with my 'puter look like that? The answer (again, imho) is the lack of a proper 3d interface device.
The mouse only describes motion in a single plane. Until we can use something more intuitive for 3d interface, such as a cyberpunk-ish data glove, we will have to wait for more effective and intuitive interface (and i [think/hope?] we'd all agree that humans more intuitively deal with 3d space).
Every time I read about someone trying to put together a 3d front-end for X, I look at the screenshots and what their goal is and think to myself "Wow, these guys are missing the point completely." A 2d window manager in 3d space is exactly what we *don't* need. There are larger issues under the surface here 'though, such as how we redefine interaction with the computer for 3 dimensions.
That will have to wait for a device to do it with...
Anthony
^X^X
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
"I think any time you expose vulnerabilities it's a good thing." -Attorney General Janet Reno
Ever want to sign a death warrant? This pen is mighty as a BFG! Write off your opponents with the red ink of Epitaph USB. Or send them a loving billet-doux with our new Optical Double Cross(TM) arena version!
Because supporting the weight of your arm for hours at a time, day after day, also causes problem. First you get very sore and cramped. If you manage to keep it up for weeks at a time you overdevelop a couple muscles in the arm - and end up unbalanced WRT the other arm.
It's called "gorilla arm".
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It came out about a few months ago for $100 US ($75-$90 street price). It's a consumer-level product, not for hardcore GIMP, Photoshop or Painter users like the Intuos, which means it costs less and has less (a mere 1015 DPI) tablet resolution. The Wacom XInput page says it's supported, but I don't have one (yet) to test it. Check it out.
This may be useful to some people...
:( )
:)
But not me, I fear.
I have used mice. Trackballs, touchpads, touch screens, and a joystick once or twice. I have navigated with the keyboard and with voice controls.
All this crap, just because using a mouse is like pointing with a potato.
You know what? I still use the mouse. It is universal, so I don't feel wierd when I go to someone else's desk. (I have one luser who insists on using a touchpad on his desktop PC
I hate to admit I like the mouse, but it is so useful in a basic sense that I would dread using anything else.
It does look cool, though. And would almost be worth it for the shock value.
Computers can only simulate determinism. ~Hermetic.
Can somebody, please, find out this guy and, using a big stick, persuade him not to do this again?
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
"There were no repetitive strain injuries caused by the usage of the mouse until we got the PC." From the maker's page. Huh? there was no mouse until we got the PC. unless you worked at Xerox PARC
Sorry, but a pen just ain't gonna cut it when I'm skewering somebody with a railgun. I also have the nasty habit of slamming my mouse on the desk when i miss or get killed. I'd probably bust that pen. Even so, it could be used for games like Civ2 or AOE2...hmm...
As others said already, the idea of a pen-shaped pointer device isn't exactly new. This particular device seems to be different because a) it is wireless and b) uses an extremely small ballpoint.
However, this pen has a big disadvantage like its predecessor - you have to pick it up, hold it and later lay it down while you use it. For people who touchtype, this is a very repetive (and thus over time more and more uncomfortable) task.
A mouse or trackball does not require that you really have to pick something up, you just grab and move it. It's a tiny, yet important difference...
Anyway, I am not sure if the current idea of a "modern ui", the user interface based on the movement of a pointer device that is used to navigate windows, pull-down menus etc., is *such* a great idea.
Most computer-illiterate people still have problems to understand the metaphore and very complex software actually makes the use of a pointer device even less impractical than the proponents of the idea claim - don't say you've never spent minutes of idly clicking and searching through multiple levels of pull-down-menus?
I am still hoping for a user interface that is completely different. Speech processing is good enough now and modern processors can handle it. When will there be the first true window-less, speech driven user interface? I can't wait to see it.
"Computer: tea, earl grey, hot."
------------------
------------------
You may like my a cappella music
1) Keeping your arm raised in front of you all day is tiring.
2) You can't read a screen while it's covered by your hand and forearm.
3) Fingers are too fat for fine-grained selection. (Your fingers may vary.)
Why do I need a sig? I never post.
(Man, this makes me sound like a stoner. "Man, my ferret loves it when I play 'Sugar Magnolia'!") What about a cigarette-like holder held in one's mouth? The tongue could be used to manipulate the tip (I guess the tip could be large and concave, so that the tongue could fit inside and move all four directions, or perhaps a ball-like mechanism could be used; clicking could be done by biting, or perhaps a keyboard mechanism). There'd be no hand switching! Along with the electrical cord, a tube could carry oxygen (or "tobacco"). Of course, each person would need to carry around his/her own mouthpiece to plug in. Truly, this is something we need.
Actually, this type of thing is nothing new. I got a pen-type thing back when I had an Apple //gs. It was a pain to use (had like a small ball in a box on the end, darn hatch kept popping off). On another note, I guess it really is a free pen... their online buying form doesn't have prices listed and amounts come up as 0.00.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
They bill this device as allowing the user to "Avoid irritating and painful working postures." It seems that it would be just as bad for strain as any other hand controlled device when used for hours at a time.
I'm holding out for retina controlled pointer devices. Or better yet - psychic!
Finally! A sight-driven cursor! I can tape this to the top of my head and look where I want to click. There'd have to be some sort of chin strap that could be used to push the buttons on the pen...... and some sort of pr0n mode where you can look at one thing and click something completely else.
Oh please... how could you possibly play a decent game of Quake with that?
I believe it was Ted Nelson that said something like, "Thousands of years ago, our ancestors discovered that it was much easier to draw with sticks than with rocks. The stick prevailed until just recently, when we inexplicably began to draw with rocks again." (bad paraphrase, I'm sure)
He has a point. Sticks are easier, and allow you to input non-trivial things. Try feeding a handwriting recognition program or drawing a picture with a mouse.
Pens can replace mice, but not vice versa. User interfaces that take advantage of this can be very powerful, but then the best user interface for things like browsing (where the chief function is selection of a specific area) is the touchscreen, which outside the PDA world has hardly taken off at all.
I don't think it's going too far to say that it's the touchscreen feature of PDA's that makes them so darn easy, quick, and useful, and is largely responsible for thier success. Given that touchscreens and browsers work so well together, why don't we see the combination more often? (This raises interesting points for UI designers, who, whether they intend to or not, may wind up with something that looks very much like the heirarchical swooshes of the screens on Star Trek.)
Since it's likely that there will be mutiple kinds of input devices in the future (I think touchscreens to augment mice are more likely than sticks, but I like sticks better than mice), UIs will have to take this into account.
Other than the possible integration of character recognition, and the ability to more effectively use the display resolution (touchscreens have a notable weakness in that regard), what changes in UI would result from the widespread availability of sticks?
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last
...except that it's cordless.
But my CalComp Creation Station is cordless, and batteryless, too (just like my old Wacom ArtPad II that croaked a few months back).
And although I have severe RSI in my right wrist from past mousing, I get no pain from using the pen 10+ hours a day. My only complaint is that I have to keep putting down my pen to type on my shiny new Kinesis kbd (my employer likes to splurge on ergo stuff for me, I guess).
Y'know, I still don't know why I can't get a workstation built like the helm on NCC1701D. The touchpanel tech is available...the screen tech is available...just drop a keyboard on the thing for tactile feedback and I'd be going to town. Instead, we seem to be stuck in this paradigm of keyboard/pointing device/monitor as separate units.
Hell, I don't even need the tactile feedback, just a few "home row" depressions/bumps so I know where to start...
-----------------------
To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.
This is cool but i Need a tablet to go with (or without) it. Any suggestions? I want to run Linux on a Tablet or wearable, but it needs to have a reasonable display (prefer touch screen...). Networking will be teathered. Industrial applicaton... Thanks for any suggestions.
Adults are obsolete children. - Dr. Seuss
I got a cross pen tablet about three years ago. Although at first I was VERY happy with it, I soon became frustrated. 1: it does something really weird to the com port and ties it up. 2: My Ricochet interfered on RF frequency with it. 3: after about 3 months it started to skip around. I would go into photoshop and press down witht he pencil tool in the same spot. I got marks ALL over the screen. 4: No linux support.
I guess the tech just wasn't ready yet.
Interestingly, I never noticed a problem with switiching from mouse to keyboard. What I am waiting for is retinal tracking or whatever. Where you look and the mouse follows and you do something (stopping down the pupil? blowing in a tube?) to make it click.
Another posibility could be those little things that quadraplegics use to move the wheelchair around. I just don't want to use my hands at all!
I still think that a touch sensitive monitor is a better idea. Obviously, current GUI designs wouldn't work very well with this method (buttons would be too small to accurately press sometimes), but you really can't beat it for simplicity. There's no external device to lose, and you couldn't possibly make it any easier to use. (Try watching a child or elderly person use a mouse for the first time. It's very frustrating watching them mis-click nearly every time.)
Biggest problems with touch monitors that I can see:
Shoulder pain from reaching over your desk
Smudges/fingerprints all over!
The shoulder pain from reaching can be fixed by making monitors closer, and possibly lower. Maybe slant them backwards a bit, making them more like an interactive keyboard. The smudges I have no good solution for. (Well, other than wearing gloves.)
In the end, you'll still need a mouse/trackball for games.
Hey, here's and idea:
We could combine the pen and touch screen, so folks could just write where they need the information input- no more relative position of the pointer. To combat the problem of raising your arm out at an oblique angle (not too good ergonomically, is it?) have the monitor screen in the desktop horizonally, or angled well away from the user like a drawing board. I like my mouse too- but i have a problem with the vertical screen. Just my two bits
Remember them? Usually seen on CAD workstations. The mouse had no ball, no rollers, no moving parts of any kind, just an led underneath, and the mouse slid over a mouse pad that had a coloured grid pattern on it. I still use mine. Lint and dust problems are non existant. My mouse is always accurate even for pixel by pixel movement. I can never go back to mechanical mice. I can even print my own gridpad if necessary and in fact have a laminated gridsheet the size of my desktop so mouse placement is a non-issue. Why they faded into disuse is beyond me. I think Mouse Systems is the only company who still makes optical mice (link in lower left scrollbox). Try one. You'll be hooked too. They cost more, but will last forever. And yes, they work with Linux.
A couple of problems spring to mind quickly: 1. Since the pen has the same type of ball as a normal mouse does, it should in theory gather dirt in the same manner. However, in this case, the ball is so very small that I wonder if cleaning would even be a remote possibillity. Perhaps a pen mouse with an electronic eye (such as the MS Explorer mouse). 2. The ball being so small would seem to cause problems. Wouldn't you have to either adjust the thing to be supersensative or go all the way around your house to move around your desktop. I suspect they would almost certainly have to do the former, and that could cause some annoying uncalled for mouse movements. Just my $.02
There were no repetitive strain injuries caused by the usage of the mouse until we got the PC.
Gee who'd a thunk that... there probably weren't too many car accidents before the invention of cars either.
Three programmable buttons make it easier and quicker to use the Internet
That'll go perfectly with my P-III.
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
-- H. L. Mencken
What it could also manage to replace is the keyboard. Afterall, keyboards are used mainly for inputting text, which is what pens are also for in the analog world.
I mean, to me, if you're going to replace the mouse, with a pen, you should replace the keyboard with it too. I don't know about you guys, but my mouse is posistioned to the right of my keyboard. It would be very awkward if I had to reach to the right and angle my wrist whenever I wanted to point. Of course, if you get rid of the keyboard, you have a lot of free space in front of you.
My guess is, however, that none of these newfangled input devices will take off, at least not for PCs, and not for a long time. We're getting to the point where the average person can probably type faster than they can write, and I've never heard anybody complain about mice being too hard to use.
Plus, mice work fine as they are. The new MS mouse works on any surface. I'm using a fairly cheap Genius NetMouse without any special surface (using my wooden desk, no mousepad) and it works fine. I don't use it for gaming, but for ordinary navigation, it's great.
I don't really see why people are going through all the effort. I think I remember seeing something on TV that lets you navigate with your eyes... just silly stuff. The mouse does its job well. If that isn't cool enough for you, voice recognition is rapidly becoming more viable. I'll still be sticking with a classic keyboard/mouse combo.
Our friends at Microsoft came up with one of those not too long ago. An "improved" optical mouse actually - since it does not require a special mouse pad/tablet unlike the competition.
No idea about Linux usuability but in theory it should work since it's a PS2 mouse.
Home Row.
And TrackPoints don't have that irritating accidental-thumb-drop problem that plagues touch pads.
IBM input hardware kicks butt. Again.
Jonathan Wang
It's gotta have 3 buttons for X too.
One advantage us lefties have had in this harsh and cruel right-handed centric world has been the keyboard-- most of the best letters are located on the left side of the keyboard, giving us a slight advantage. MEanwhile, our less-used right hand slips over to the mouse (and can hit the number-pad Enter button with ease from there). This gives us a wonderful interface. Now they want to take our good hand away and place it on a pointing device and force our weaker hand to use the keyboard? P'shaw. I'll stick with the mouse.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
I know most of you probably use gamepads for 1st person shooters, but as far as I am concerned you can't beat the free-mouse look in games like QuakeII, Unreal, and Half-Life. I don't think apen would work quit as well. Still, sounds niffty and all, but I think i will stick with the good ol desk rodent.
root@localbrain root>ps ax |grep thoughtd
A camera that sits on top of your computer (like a web cam, but most likely higher quality and greater refresh) that TRACKS YOUR EYES.
Where your eyes move over the screen, the camera tracks the movement and moves the cursor to where you are focussing. If you change position in your chair, you can quickly "refocus" the device by training it with a physical mouse. (ie: if you move around too far, you will lose your connection, and have to retrain the camera by moving the mouse around with your hand and following the cursor with your eyes) Smarter versions of the camera will tolerate a greater movement of the viewer.
This device would be lightning quick, and let you operate the pointer while having BOTH HANDS on the keyboard.
I would imagine that games would also be enhanced, for example playing quake!
Ok.. so who's gonna build me one of these?!
I think you're talking about the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer. It's an optical mouse that doesn't use a special pad - it actually has a little camera that takes about 1500 pictures a second and compares one with the next in order to determine how it's tracking.
It's actually a USB mouse, but there is a PS/2 adapter that comes with it.
It works pretty well for day to day tasks, but it does have drawbacks. You can't use it on glass or reflective surfaces (despite this, the in-store displays they shipped have it sitting on a mirror), and doesn't work well on repeating textures like halftone prints. It also doesn't work very well on the hardtop type mouse pads. It works best on hard woodgrain slightly textured surfaces in my experience.
There seem to be a few manufacturing defects in the first generation of them (the ones out right now). A lot of people are complaining that the left button malfunctions frequently - double clicking where you meant to click and hold, and dropping stuff as you click and drag around.
It's also not the best mouse ever for gaming. It seems that you can move it too fast and it loses track of where it is - really bad if you want to suddenly spin and blast the person you hear sneaking up behind you in Quake III.
Otherwise, it's a pretty decent mouse. I'm willing to bet that within a year or two or so most mice will be based on this idea rather than ball type. I'm personally going to wait a bit before shelling out the cash for one (the one I used was a friends). By that time the technology will have overcome the shortcomings (I hope, I'm sick to death of cleaning out all the negative karma built up on the rollers of my mice).
I use a kensington expert mouse - Anything else just doesn't compare if you have to point to something (I prefer keyboard overall)
~ ~~
1. It's the best for games (like centipede all over again)
2. It's got 4 programable buttons
3. You use your hole hand instead of a thumb, or a wrist - each finger independantly - cuts down on hand cramp.
4. Really small footprint, and I don't have to clear a space for it when I want to use it.
I have so much crap on my desk that now my hand kinda hovers above the trackball. Quite comfortable.
(Plus you can drop any pool ball in there instead of what comes with it - so it's fashionable too.)
@
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Fish.
It takes a few days to get used to it, but once you are, it's a really efficient way to move the mouse pointer around.
I think a lot of people don't like the Trackpoint because they tried the knockoffs by Toshiba and HP; their "eraserhead" pointing devices don't work anywhere near as well as the IBM one. The trick to making those kinds of pointing devices work comfortably is in getting the mapping from force to pointer movement just right, and IBM did many years of user research and performance testing to improve that (even between IBM's different trackpoint models, there are noticeable differences: Trackpoint 4 is quite a bit more efficient than the older models).
You can get several desktop versions of the Trackpoint keyboard from IBM. I bought Trackpoint 4 keyboards in "Stealth Black" for all my machines.
Hmm, yes - a completely flat entry panel and you just touch the relevant bit lightly with your finger. Sounds like that horribly cheap keyboard Sinclair put on the ZX81. No key travel, no tactile feedback, no rubber keys - just a flat surface. I would hate to use such a keyboard for typing at any speed at all (of course, on a ZX81, the limiting factor is the speed of the CPU, not the keyboard, so that doesn't apply).
there are tongue mice designed for paraplegics, but I think they require a custom fitting, like a retainer.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/People/wearable/index.html
and click on the "Digital Ink" button.
I have enough fun cleaning my traditional mouse/trackballs of finger crud, crumbs, and spills, now just imagine scaling down everything but the crud 10x and cleaning it. I'll pass, thanks.
--
My other computer is your IIS server.
Of course, who would care where you clicK?
I am not a lawyer.
I did a little work with touchscreens for some kiosk development a few years ago. Touch screens are really cool -- for a few minutes. You don't want to hold your arm straight out in front of you for any significant length of time. I will agree that sticks are better than rocks for drawing. And when I'm drawing, I do prefer to use my graphics tablet. However, most of the things that I do with my pointing device aren't very much like drawing. I pick things up. I put them down somewhere else. I slide things around. For these actions, I'm more comfortable handling a rock than a stick. Rocks are, as someone else said in another thread, better for switching back and forth with a keyboard; I'd rather grab a rock that's right where I left it than pick up my stick again every couple of minutes. I'd rather tap a button with my finger (even after moving the image of my hand around for a second) than with the end of a stick. And I like the little wheel on my rock; I don't know where you could comfortably and safely place such a control on a stick. Also, button placement on a stick seems much more personal, depending more on hand size, on a stick than on a rock. Maybe the stick and touchscreen interfaces would work a little better for a horizontal display/input surface than our current vertical ones as a sole interface. The desktop-style panels on Trek don't look to bad, but just thinking about the wall-mounts make my shoulder ache. I have never been as comfortable writing on a wallboard as a desktop. Besides, even as the last of the hunt-and-peck programmers, I am more comfortable with a keyboard than with a pen for long stretches of text, and I want tactile feedback from my keyboard while I'm at it. I'd love to see a keyboard that integrates well with a horizontal LCARS panel, but can't imagine a layout where one wouldn't get in the way of the other.
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
As a professional graphics designer I have enough problems keeping my monitor clean to start fondling it with my fingers.
Heck, I spent the better part of last month convincing the cleaning crew to stop 'cleaning' my screen.
So, does this pen support variable pressure sensitivity? Doesn't look like it. For most operations, I prefer a mouse, but I do like my Wacom tablet for graphics applications, especially those that support variable-pressure input. In fact, I'd hate to try using a natural-media paint program without a pressure-sensitive device.
Slightly off-topic, but: How much support is there for variable-pressure devices in the Gimp? All my graphics experience has been in Windows (I know -- boo, hiss -- get over it), but I'm starting to take an interest in the Gimp as well. For that matter, does the Gimp (or any other Linux graphics software) have any type of natural-media functionality?
Weblogging Considered Harmful:
Movement is tracked by measuring the rolling of a small ball at the tip of the pen. This means it works on any surface.
No it doesn't. It would actually work on less surfaces than a mouse does. Try writing on glass.
I've been using a Silitek K-7100 keyboard with an integrated joystick-like pointer which is outstanding, the only problem is that it works with IR light so you can't work with another of these keyboards next to you.
I use a trackball myself, ITAC (who I think has gone to pot) and Kensington. I like the big trackballs as opposed to those dinky Logitech ones.
:-)
I hadn't thought about holding my arm up so much. I mostly move the arrow into an xterm and leave it there for a while, sometimes click while testing web pages. But I agree now that I think of it. Thanks for the feedback
--
Infuriate left and right
.. it's not worth it. I got one of the first ones that were produced, and the radio link was quite alright - if you were in a radio wave free environment - but most people aren't. I've heard that there's a new version out where this is significantly improved (it actually works now).
But the claimed improvement of ergonomics are simply not there. In order to register movement, you have to hold quite tight onto the pen to press the ball in the end down to make it roll, hence you tighten your fingermuscles for as long as you move the pen.
It was recently tested by a danish consumer magazine ("Tænk", I think it was), along with several other pointing devices. It wasn't the worst, but it came pretty close, along with mice in the price range of $5-$10.
How you like it is of course a matter of taste, but I can in no way recommend it. If you really do not want a mouse, my personal (non-sponsored) recommendation is the Logitech Trackman Marble FX; it feels like wearing a glove - if you stretch your hand in front of you - in a non-turned, relaxed state - and let it drop to the table, that's how the Trackman Marble is handled and is to your wrist.
No left-hand version, though..
Q: How does a Unix guru have sex? A: unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;umount;sleep
I work in my university's computer labs. We have one for adaptive students (special software/hardware for visual impairments/quadlapelgics/etc) We do have a device that is worn on the head, tracks the head movement by an infra-red box sitting on top of the monitor, and converts it to cursor movement. The clicking is done with a wand, which does have a chin-strap support.
One solution is the Sun Interface Converter, part X465A.
Not at all. After my first brush with mouse-induced wrist pain, I ran right out & got myself a Wacom tablet, and I use it all the time for general pointing & clicking. It's actually quite nice & natural feeling, and MUCH easier on my wrists than this stupid mouse. The only down side is that I lost the little stand you keep the pen in when you're not using it, so I'm constantly playing 'find the pointing device'
I think the subject speaks for itself, but frankly, that thing sucked ass.
On wheel mice, pressing the wheel down is the same as pressing the middle button. However, I don't know whether the tracking works under Linux just as it does in Windows.
For more information, click here.
Nothing new under the sun I guess.
To, of all things, position "contacts" on a the output from a sidescan sonar.
Seriously, best "mouse" I have found is the kinsington expert mouse (really a trackball but with a big pool size ball). There are just so many ways to role that huge ball I never get twinges of RSI as I do on a traditional mouse.
I chew my pens, Normal ones only last about a week around here.. Hmm.. with this one though I guess I wouldn't have the INK problem :p Seriously though, that would be a good thing for an artist, sucky for a non-artist..
Georgia Tech used to have a bunch of Suns that used those optical mice and they sucked. Only a few of them still worked accurately. The others would jump around because they wouldn't keep a constant read on the grid.
a Smith&Wesson together with a laser targetting
add-on. Every time somebody pisses me off, I'll
shoot them at point blank. Insane in the membrane
any questions?
But a pen, you have to pick it up, and set it down each time. It's not at constant "stand-by" waiting to be moved into another position like a mouse is. A mouse sits where it sits. You give it a nudge to the right or left, and that's it... You don't have to pick it up, then slide it, then set it back down.
Extra movements needed by this pen thing are NOT an improvement. The only thing it might have going for it is precision for like graphic artists or something... Dunno. I just can't see rushing out to get something that would be a total pain in the ___ to have to use on a daily basis.
Last night Lawnmower Man was on, and I noticed the flying mouse that they were using.
Anyone have any thoughts on these?
For those who don't know, it's like a mouse that you hold in your hand, not on a desk. The one on the movie basically was contoured with extensions that fit over your thumb and pinky I guess it follows the movement of your hand, and the buttons are held against your fingers.
Check out Microsoft's new IntelliEye mouse. They can make good hardware and these thigs are really cool. They have the ability to track on almost any surface, not just a grid. And it is true, they work on just about anything besides reflective material, or a surface with no texture (physical not color texture), they will work on any mouse pad and most desk surfaces. Highly recomended, especially when the price get down below $50.
Spencer Ogden
I think that better GUI's are out there, it's just expensive to try anything other than the mouse and tube that comes with your pc. And it's probably even less likely for a company to provide you with hardware this cool... Unless you are very, very good at what you do.
...is a laser pen with an explosive in it that can only be triggered if the pen is pointed at a movie screen.
I read a while ago about somebody (I think it was Wacom) developing a pen based tablet interface, only the tablet was an LCD screen setup to mirror your monitor. You would use it just like a normal tablet, but you could keep your eye on what you were doing. Does anybody know what happened to that? It sounded really cool.
I've been using a Logitech TrackMan for years now, and i love them. They fit right in your hand (something that i have yet to find a mouse really do). The way that it detects movement is that it bounces IR beams of the ball so it doesnt really get gummed up (you just periodically dig out all the crap that gets in there). My only complaint is that the stopped making the ones that dont have the annoying scrollbar instead of a middle button. Seriously there isn't a better pointing device.
Turns out that the optical tech used in the new MS mouse was actually developed by HP. Go figure.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Call me crazy, but the thought of a pen on my desktop replacing my mouse absolutely frightens me. Have you ever seen my handwriting? Let's just say I got a "D-" in Handwriting all the way through 5th grade. I cringe at the thought of even TRYING to select and cut-and-paste even a simple line of text.
On that note, I may be a sellout, but give me my Microsoft "wheely" Intellimouse any day. It sits on my desktop, fits nicely in my hand, and gets the job done. The fact that it has three easily accesibly buttons doesn't hurt--how the hell and I suppose to zoom in on the new Quake 3: Arena test without my beloved wheel-button? This actually is a decent product that I can't live without; Anyone know who MS bought it from?
I'm always looking for my 'next' new computer toy, and this of course includes pointing devices.
;-)
:-)
But...
IMHO the mouse is the best pointing device currently available. As a general PC user I like the design for its simplicity and fuctionality. As a gamer, the mouse offers the perfect mix of control and sensitivity. I can't even *imagine* trying to play Q3A with a trackball. Seriously, as much beef as I have with Microsoft, that IntelliMouse is wonderful. I've become very attatched to the little scroll wheel! (Which is also a third button.) If only they'd stick to selling hardware, huh?
A short while ago I tested out a few trackballs, but I have yet to find a satisfactory product. Also, since I'm bad and constantly have munchies with me at the computer, the trackball would dirty *very* quickly from potato-chip oils, pizza grease, et cetera.
I would love to see more laptop manufacturers use trackballs, though. Though they're incomparable to mice, I *really* can't stand those kludgy touch-pads and eraser heads.
I would be very interested in hearing others' trackball comments.
For my uses, pen-type devices, while cool for artists, are too specialized.
What will the next technology be? I've heard of a Japanese company that is developing a device that follows eye movement for use in military applications (target designation for fighter pilots, working with the helmet visor and HUD). This way the pilot doesn't have to take his eyes of the sky to fiddle with the controls currently used for this purpose, and allows for extremely quick changes.
Could that be scaled for use as a PC pointing device? (Just look where you want on the screen, and the cursor goes there.)
For now, though, Mickey works fine.
--
I like to watch.
The problem with a pen is picking it up and putting it down. How about a pen that floats perpendicularly to the desk. Or maybe I could just hang it on a string from the ceiling. Yeah, that would work.
When is someone going to create the true Mom interface (the one my mother thinks already exists)? That's the one where she just keeps saying, "but I want it to be over there" or "I meant to double click" and the mouse will be over there and will double click. Is the Media Lab working on this yet?
Yeah, I'm as old as my UID would suggest.
The 'Happy Hacking' keyboard is expensive but you can swap the cords and use it with PS/2 (and therefore anything convertable from PS/2), Macs, and best of all, Sun boxes.
Granted, not everyone likes the Happy Hacking's other main selling point, the incredibly small size.
--
I like to watch.
I have been using a Wacom ArtPad (supported quite nicely in XFree86) for over a year now. The best thing about a pen tablet is that it is not a mouse -- you can jump to any point on the screen in the time it takes to shift your hand. Though it took a while to get used to the buttons on the pen (and they still kinda annoy me), it has made working at the computer much more comfortable (not to mention, it has increased my Starcraft dexterity exponentially -- i can repair 12 bunched wraithes with no missed clicks. Though it kinda blows for quake...)
To me, this new pen combines all the disadvantages of a mouse and a pen into one. The worst thing about mice is the mouse ball by far -- it always gets dirty, it requires you to use the same amount of force constantly. Like all pens, it has those annoying buttons.
If you use a Wacom tablet, the serial port connects to the tablet -- not the pen. All that fancy radio hardwire, besides sounding like a frustration in the wings (interference = no mouse!), really doesn't offer you anything that different from what already exists.
Drivers exist because Wacom has done the sensible thing by sponsoring the XFree86 Project. Plus, WACOM is a respected manufacturer that is more or less the standard for graphic designers worldwide.
I doubt the cable from the tablet to the serial port will really bother you that much. Of course, if it does, check out the graphire. And if you want something to really make you drool, check out this.
I hate to say Microsoft made a good product, but I just got an IntelliEye mouse a few hours ago, and it blows the pants off every mouse I've ever used.
Its a shame someone else didn't make it, but if you're really looking for a great pointing device, these are about as nice as they get. You never realize how much friction you get from that ball until its gone.
I can't live without my Gateway AnyKey keyboard... I know that there's programs that will allow you to do keyboard macros, but you simply can't beat the convenience of having programmable macros available right from the keyboard! I know it sounds silly/dumb, but once you've gotten used to it, you can't do without. I've got 2 extra ones just in case Gateway stops making them.
an idea i had which i once mailed to ask slashdot, but which was never posted (not that im bitter:)
given a full duplex stereo soundcard could one write a program to triangulate the 3d position of a microphone from the delays of the known (+distortion) output to two sets of speakers. Obviously there are really only two (left + right) signals, but theoretically it seems possible to me to dicern the third and fourth by their difference in time.
I ask about the practicality of the software: would it be too cpu intensive? is sound input just too noisy to do that kind of math with?
This idea is simply something that occured to me given previous knowledge aquired mostly for free- I take no credit for it and scoff at the idea of patenting it:P
I'm going to have to disagree with you on a point, that 'keyboards are used mainly for inputting text'. I actually use mouse as little as possible, and use the keyboard for most navigation. In Win98, at least, I actually surprise people with the speed I can acheive by combining standard keyboard commands with the MS 'alt+*' and 'Win+*' commands. In fact my major complaint about Linux GUIs is the lack of consistent keyboard navitgation support. Some apps use 'ctrl+*' function keys, others use 'alt+*', other support both, others none. At least Windoze apps have 99% consistent window and menu navigation via keyboard. Pens could probably never replace keyboards even for text input. How fast can most people really write? And who can write write *legibly* at the speed of a keyboard? If your handwriting isn't legible and consistent, the character-recognition software is screwed. For speed, I really think that keyboards still rule.
--
I like to watch.
Having multiple pointing devices would take care of a lot of the disadvantages of any one, as long as you could work interchangeably between one and the other (say, a pen and a mouse, plus OC the keyboard).
For me, I'm dying to get a pen so I can make up in freehand drawing the talent I lack at manipulating Bezier curves and other mouse related artistic problems. I've heard it said, "drawing with a mouse is like signing your name with a bar of soap."
But nothing beats the mouse for screen interface, cause (as someone pointed out) you can push it and leave it, and it stays there until you're ready. It's just precise enough.
So I'll eventually have one pen, and one mouse, and they damn well better work at the same time.
What they CAN work on is getting me something like that that I can afford. A small pen tablet ought to cost about as much as a mouse, IMHO. I've looked at Wacom prices, and it don't -- yet.
_____
_____
The antidote to bad speech is not censorship, but more speech.
I strongly reccommend the Kensington Turbo Mouse (ADB) and Expert Mouse (ps2/serial) trackballs. They are positively the most comfortable pointing device I've used. 4 programmable buttons (and it allows you to define functions for when you click both the top or bottom buttons simultaneously, called chording) for 6 functions. I have click, dbl-click, contextual menu, close window, close app, and scroll (same as clicking the scroll wheel in windoze)
I have used smaller trackballs before but they don't compare to the accuracy and comfort with this 2.25" diameter trackball.
The linux drivers are being worked on now (Kensington gave 2 people, one of whom I know, one free Expert Mouse each in encouragement of a Linux driver.
Best of all, the size of the trackball is exactly that of pool balls. So mine is an 8-ball :)
Disclaimer: I don't work for Kensington, just a satisfied customer.
-Beaner@Euphoria
First of all, a completely speech-based interface has its own problems, even if the speech recognition could be "perfect" and the interface extremely well-designed. That last part is probably harder than you think: for it to be a really good interface, you'd probably want it to "understand" you as clearly as another person would, which, even leaving out philosophical questions about whether it would really be conscious, is an AI-complete/Turing-Test sort of task.
A less ambitious version might be a speech-to-text layer built over a command line, but that would be really bad. It would not be much faster than typing, and it would be very hard to disambiguate your commands, since shell commands do not consist entirely of real words. For example, I for one pronounce "/usr/bin" as "user bin", not "slash U S R slash bin", but how is it supposed to know that? It can't just replace "usr" with "user", because I could also have a directory called "user", and that's just one word -- how is it supposed to be able to guess where to insert slashes, etc.? A lot of letters sound like words; multiple words can be separate tokens or run together, capitalization is nto always consistent, etc. I would certainly not be willing to spell everything out clearly enough for a reasonable system to recognize, because it would probably end up being slower than typing. If I ever need to work faster, I'll learn to touch-type [1].
Even if such an interface could be made to work really well, it seems that it would be pretty distracting to have an office full of people talking to their computers, let alone trying to use a laptop in a public place.
Even ignoring that, a speech-based interface would still be lacking: Back to dictating shell commands: have you ever tried to dictate a session of shell commands to the person at the keyboard while looking over his shoulder? Even an AI-complete, Turing-test-passing agent (i.e., an actual human) cannot perfectly interpret your spoken shell commands. Telling someone where to click in a GUI can be even worse. In either case, you tend to end up wanting to grab the keyboard and/or mouse from him and do it yourself. That suggests that the keyboard/mouse is better than speech for giving commands. In fact, when talking someone through a GUI, you probably end up pointing at the screen and saying "click here" a lot, i.e., your first reaction is to improvise a "pointer" because you need to point at something.
I suggest that the need to point at things is a fundmental part of any interface. What you really want is to be able to just think at it, but failing that, you'll probably find that putting what you want into words is actually harder than pointing/typing. The only thing I've used that I might like better than the mouse is the stylus on a Palm Pilot. This is a special case with respect to pen mouse devices because the interface is also different -- you tap controls with it, which combines the actions of pointing and clicking. This is a big difference, since you don't have to move an onscreen widget to the control. What I think would be good is to have a camera set up to track your eye movements, so you could just look at something on the screen and squint to tap it. Eye movements are the easiest, fastest and most accurate muscular actions that we are capable of, so it would be good to harness their information-carrying capacity.
"Computer: tea, earl grey, hot."
It's a cool line, but after a while I started wondering why Picard didn't set up a macro so he could just say "Tea" and get his default preference. Maybe if he had occasionally asked for iced tea, or darjeeling or something instead...
[1] I currently do a sort of hybrid "hunt-and-touch" thing, where at least five or six fingers are moving, and they "know" where the keys are, but I have to be looking at the keyboard while doing it; I can get up around forty to fifty words per minute, so it's not much of a problemIt would be nice not to have to take my eyes off the screen, but it's never seemed worth the trouble.
David Gould
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
That sounds pretty good! Now, if they just make it easier to manipulate. Perhaps have it support its own weight, and make it larger so you can rest your hand on it. Then change the name from "pen" to "mouse"...
--
Patrick Doyle
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
The only way it's free? You do the same pyramid spam scam shit you are pulling right now.
Hmm. At Home. Cable. Permanent IP? Hmm.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
The Amiga used to let you do things like this... had two ports - both could be used for either a mouse/joystick/pen/tablet... You could even have two mice :) Or, much more usefully, a mouse and a pen. :)
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
Who needs a mouse. Drive software, so a camera picks ups subtle handmovements . Just close the shutter when u type in yer password. Plus the software could be trained for your hand only. This has already been done, but on eyeball movements and blinks.
Uh, what happens when two people try to use this device while sitting in the same room, say, within 2.5m of each other???
I always loved the "eraser" style pointers that stuck between two keys on the IBM Thinkpads. If the accuracy could be improved, I'd like one on a desktop sized keyboard, so I could reach over with one finger and point, and then go immediately back to typing.
Seems like this might be useful for laptops because it doesn't seem like it will need as much space. I find the only other good device for laptops is those little red things that sit in the middle of the keyboard on the ibm ones. The touchpad is just the most useless thing i've ever used. Trackballs are good if your used to them. I think i'll just stick with my desktop comp for now.
As much as I don't like most things from Big Fruit Inc, the Newton has one of the best UI's I can conceive of. If ol' Stevie had not killed it in it's prime, I think development of that would have nuked the palm and wince platforms, as it grew smaller and lighter and color got added.
The Wacom device is very promising (I have an Artpad, and the pen tech associated with that is very slick) but the cost of the integrated display is pretty high.
The best part about inputting directly on the display is the direct 1:1 mapping, especially for graphics input.
You lose this with the separate tablet (or this pen thingy).
I am very interested in the pen interface, but I just don't think it is all that great as long as the position mapping is not direct to the screen space. I use my tablet in the Gimp to draw, but it is tiring to use the pen/tablet as a rodent substitute for general navigation.
How about an anal mouse? It could look like a seat cushion with a slim thumb sticking up. You could then just thow it on your chair and sit at your workstation, and keep both hands on the keyboard. Your mouth would not be burdened with a "tongue mouse", so you could talk on the phone, over the cube, etc. To navigate, you would just kind of flex your butt cheeks.
This looks nice but I would think it would give your WRITERS CRAMP after a fairly short time of gripping this "Pen". I wouldn't use it. I could see an application for art but not for everyday use.
Heh. IMHO, I don't like mice, even when they worked.
However, I've hated trackballs worse (even though I prefer these), because all the gunk they collected really ruined scrolling/mousing[trackballing?].
Then I tried a touchpad. Nice, but not "precise" enough for me. Trackpoints were OK, but the tips kept wearing out (until you're pushing a mushy piece of rubber. When new, the IBM Trackpoints are really neat and easy to use [nice grippy texture until it wears down]). So I stuck using the mouse.
Then I found the excellent Trackman Marble FX (optical trackball). No problems mousing, and less frustration. Might get the optical M$ mouse, but would be kind of hard to get me to convert back to mice >G
Yep, got a Kensington expert. I have sent them email several times and only got response like "We don't support Linux." Good to hear they are maybe thinking instead of jerking their knees.
--
Infuriate left and right
I currently use an old two button Kensington Turbo-mouse trackball. I first started using it in about '90 or maybe earlier, don't remember. I had a bit of adjustment, but after learning to use it (years ago), I love it. Bear in mind, this is on a Mac. I do the Linux thing, but have stayed at the CL for now and have never used X.
:) (Anyone else remember that one?)
The driver on the Mac allows me to set an acceleration curve and define actions for each button and a chord.
At work on NT (ick), I use a standard mouse on the desktop and the J-mouse (what I've always called the pencil eraser joystick embedded in the keyboard) on a Toshiba Laptop. I have also used Trackpads and the Mini-trackball on Apple Laptops (using the Trackpad right now.) Oh, and the light pen on the Commodore 64.
The regular mouse is ok. I really like the J-mouse on the laptop over any of the other laptop options. Although, I got the chance to play with an iBook the other day, and it's Trackpad is much improved and I would consider it.
A friend has a Logitech mouse with an interesting ergonomic design which fits my hand exactly. The curve on top (right-handed), plus a slight recess for my thumb allow my hand to stay in exactly the right position. There are 3 buttons on top and one at the bottom of the thumb recess. I have never really gotten a model or name on this little rodent, but it's USB and if I didn't have the Trackball, I'd probably use it.
Well, that's just my 2 little round copper objects.
Russ
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
Anybody remember the MousePen? (I think that's what it was called) Looked like a pen except it had about an inch shaped like a square on the bottome bent over that had a ball in it? \ \ \ \ \ \ ----- | | -(0)- Looked kinda like that. Anyway, I went through two of the damned things and they never worked quite the way I wanted. It's not a new idea. Just an oldie but baddie.
Anybody remember the MousePen? (I think that's what it was called) Looked like a pen except it had about an inch shaped like a square on the bottome bent over that had a ball in it? \  \
 \  \
  \  \
   -----
   |   |
   -(0)-
Looked kinda like that. Anyway, I went through two of the damned things and they never worked quite the way I wanted. It's not a new idea. Just an oldie but baddie.
Anybody remember the MousePen? (I think that's what it was called) Looked like a pen except it had about an inch shaped like a square on the bottome bent over that had a ball in it?
\  \
 \  \
  \  \
   -----
   |     |
   -(0)-
Looked kinda like that. Anyway, I went through two of the damned things and they never worked quite the way I wanted. It's not a new idea. Just an oldie but baddie.
Anybody remember the MousePen? (I think that's what it was called) Looked like a pen except it had about an inch shaped like a square on the bottome bent over that had a ball in it?
\  \
 \  \
  \  \
   -----
   |      |
   -(0)-
Looked kinda like that. Anyway, I went through two of the damned things and they never worked quite the way I wanted. It's not a new idea. Just an oldie but baddie.
I just got a Logitech Mouseman + CE and I really like it. It took about 2 days to get used to it but I love it. Try one.
I have a big bag full of two cents and I'm coming your way.
I poked around the site for a bit but didn't find any indication of a USB version (which would be the only hope at mac compatability). I used one of these on a PC laptop in a store a while ago and I remember realy liking it. Now that I know there are standalone versions I'm interested in having one on my mac.
It got terrible reviews in The Engineer paper (Ingeniøren) as well as in one of the major news papers (Politiken). The Engineer was (and is) running an on-going very thorough series about people's mice problems, so that is a source to be trusted. It was marketed as the solution to mouse problems, but in fact it turned out to be the exact opposite.
Oh yeah, and to use it properly, it must be held vertically; if you hold it in the natural 45 degrees writing position it just won't work. It is also too thick and too heavy and the first edition would not connect to some PC's properly (they claim to have fixed that now).
I ended up buying her a Wacom tablet. This was such an amazing experience that I one week later bought another one for myself.
/* Count to five, then roll over dead */
Speech Processing may be good enough if you only have slight variations in speech. Here in India, the speech/accent changes completely every few hundred kilometres. (Try yum-yai-yun-yai-yum-you-yum said extremely nasally as pronounciation for minimum -- I spelled it out for clarity. This is one extreme, the other being uncommunicable through written text). The pointer is good if only to overcome these variations in speech.
I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
I can't find it listed on the updated BT labs site (http://www.labs.bt.com) but there was a press release a year ago about a pen they were demoing which did exactly this. It also had a tiny screen on the top which produced a virtual (in the optical sense) view of what you'd written. IIRC it also picked up the 3d motion of the pen, which is apparently important in detecting forgery of signatures.
It was covered on the BBC, and I think it even got mentioned on /. at the time?
Does cross have a similar device? the pad is tethered.. but at the tip of the pen is a ball. The pen transmits a radio signal to the drawing pad, and the who idea is having a pad that feels a lot like writing on a real peice of paper. Personally I love the product ( ipen pro) http://www.cross-pcg.com/products/index.html .
martin
Or at least voice recognition doesn't give the user CTS.
-----
Do you even know anything about perl? -- AC Replying to Tom Christiansen post.
The pen has two items inside the pen that wear out: the battery and the ball. The battery needs to be replaced every 3 - 6 months (read: 2-4 times a year). The ball needs to be replaced 3-4 times a year. Those figures were from their web site. The battery is $7.99 US, and the ball is $6.99 US. That means that using the pen could cost up to $40 US per year--Not to mention the $79.99 US price tag. Compare this to, say the M$ Intellimouse Explorer: $80 with no deteriorating parts. Now what is the better deal? The savings you experience will more than pay for your first Carpal Tunnel surgery when/if you need to have it.
Focus should be on the tables and desks we are forced to use, not on the pointing devices. A good computer desk height (at least for me) is 26 inches. The desk barely clears your legs, and forces you arms to be in a more relaxed position. Most people use desks that were designed for writing (usually around 30 inches high), where they were designed so that you didn't have to slump very far to write (back injuries are worse than RSI in my opinion).
The bottom line: use the best tool for the job. If you are a graphic artist, use a pen tool or graphics tablet that is better than that pen. Even if you spent $200 on the pointing device, it will pay for itself in 3 years. If you have general purpose needs, stick with the mouse for now.
Personally, I think the best breakthrough would be something like MICI (Musical Instrument Cerebral Interface).
-------------------------------------------------
there are some pen tablets that can be switched into relative mode if you want to.
>No idea about Linux usuability but in theory it should work since it's a PS2 mouse.
:)
I have one of these toys and i kinda like it, it IS really precise, and looks "cool" with all the lights
But it's not perfect anyway, as someone said, it doesn't work on all surfaces, and it does lose its location when you move it too fast, then the pointer goes wherever it wants.. i've played with it, though RTS-games and also few FPS:s (Half-Life), its speed of tracking has been enough, but i'm not any hardcore quake fan, maybe mediocre, so maybe it can go haywire with some serious FPS player.
And the most important thing: yes, it does work in linux, including the wheel, thumb buttons won't work (because of 5 button limit in X), but i don't need them anyway. GPM sometimes complains about "error in protocol" and "no data" to logs, but it still works. Is there any homepage or mailing-list where i could report this so gpm folks might have it work perfectly ?-)
I actually tried the thingie a few months back (it
:P.
was released in Denmark at least half a year ago).
It felt nice in the hand, not so slim it strained
your hand to hold it, and the buttons were in the
right position, but... I was completely incabable
of drawing a straight line with it.
It had to be trained to your hand, but still I
seem to change the angle I draw at depending on
the position. Trying to go left always became
slightly up or down too etc. I had trouble hitting
an icon on the desktop. This was never a problem
with a mouse,
where you can feel the angle, but the pen is
round, still doesn't allow you to rotate it in your hand.
Also, I tend to have a fairly low angle when I
write, lower than what the pen would accept (there's a reason ball pointed pens are
*pointed*).
All in all, I couldn't use it even if I tried.
Some of it might be a question of practice, but
I would prefer the equipment to adapt to me, not
the other way around
Try before you buy!
I don't know about anyone else, but I probably won't buy this product. It's not a question of drivers or socket availability. I get a higher strain when I'm using a pen than when I'm using a mouse. At least with a mouse I can let my hand relax over the box, whereas with a pen I have to make an effort to hold on to the little bugger.
I dread exams not for a lack of study but for the pain of writing all those words out longhand (rather than typing them into my laptop).
The software drivers for Windows NT comes with a mouse emulation mode, but it has some serious drawbacks. The stylus has to be touching an imaginary plane (created with force-feedback) in order to move the pointer and the stylus' only button is used as the left mouse button.
If someone would write a new mouse emulator for the Phantom, it could just rock. It would become the ultimate pointing device.
- It wouldn't have to be picked up. By applying a feedback force in the upward direction, the stylus would appear weightless and stay in place (in space) when you release your grip of it.
- It is pressure sensitive
- Senses the pen angle. The angle is actually very significant for real drawing/painting. I have only seen it being emulated in software before, and it has been done poorly.
- It has 3D tracking. Actually, that is what it was designed for.
- Force feedback. You could feel windows, widgets and icons. The resolution of this device is amazing. The software that I am using simulates rough, frictional and bumpmapped surfaces.
- With a mirror or a flat display in front of the device you could align the position of the screen image with your hand to get hand-eye coordination. (see this)
Of course, it has some serious drawbacks:"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Really. I've had mechanical work flawlessly through years of heavy use and abuse that were never cleaned. Too bad so many mice are crap, including the expensive ones.
Optical mice really do suck. You have to keep them aligned with their special pad. They don't roll. They skid. And when the felt on their pads starts to wear out (they do *not* last forever) they're worse than the dirtiest mechanical mouse and there's nothing you can do about it.
The scroll click on my mouse is programmable to do pretty much anything I want. Here a list of everything I can tell it to do:
-Close Window
-Double Click
-Drag Lock
-Maximize Window
-Middle Button
-Minimize Window
-Next Window
-Page Down
-Page Up
-Paste
-Start Button (mswindows yeah)
-Undo
-Windows Explorer
I dont know what it does with Linux (yet.. installing it on this machine soon), but it did come with the drivers so I assume it does plenty.