Slashdot Mirror
Brazil Bans Doom, Duke Nukem and 4 Other Games
CaptainCarrot writes "This story at Yahoo has the details. Apparently the police there think that some nutcase who went on a shooting spree in Sao Paulo last month was copying a scene from Duke Nukem. That he was also a coke fiend seems to be besides the point. "
I just think that this blaming of games for peoples actions in getting way out of control. I'm gonna go play some smash brothers. Does that mean I feel like taking a hammer to my best friend? Blame the game! It's not my fault!; I'm being influenced by pixels and colors.. It seems the world is in a sad state when it can blame computer games for peoples actions.
Anyway thats enough 2 cents from me for a while. I feel like playing some quake and then going out and commiting random acts of crime. When I get caught I will blame it on quake. Or plead insanity.. whichever I can get away with
OK, DOOM is really really bad, but Quake, Quake II, Quake III, Daikatana (did that ever get released?), Unreal, and who knows how many other games are perfectly OK? What the hell?!?!? At least they could try to be consistent with their censorship.
:) If you like dark comedies and FPS, you'll probably like Blood. The literary references are great, and there really is a lot of humor throughout the game. Also, the continuity between levels is better than any FPS I've seen before or since.
However, I've got to admit it, Blood is a very violent game. If you ever get a chance, play it.
Wow!, I guess authorities must get up to date with video games.
I wonder how many copies of these games are still sold. Even en Brazil this games are really oldies.
The measure seems to match the age of the games: really outdated.
At least that leaves us about 4 years of Q3 to play before they ban it.
No, I don't like sigs
Hell, he was most likely just frustrated with those crappy DN controls; I sure feel more aggravated having to deal with that wretched excuse of a game. Another fine example of your tax money at work.
Interesting, this was posted as game news, not as a censorship article...
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E2 IN2 IE?
> However, this is only a version of the >prosecution, which also stated that Meira had >traces of cocaine in his blood and had in the > >past been treated for stress-related problems.
:) 3am on 4 hours of sleep :)
When I was in high school, some kid in a nearby town slammed his car into building, killing himself. There was a note about how all his hard work had been for naught and all that sort of stuff and that's why he decieded to take his own life. When the police interviewed his friends they learned that in a recent game of Dungeons and Dragons, his character who he had worked on for nearly a year had fallen victim to a fatal curse or something like that.
When they interviewed other people they learned a injury was forcing him to miss out on his Senior year of high school football, and his girlfriend had just left him.
Guess which one that Media picked up on and blamed? Being in a town just a short ways away, we felt the impact a lot. I play RPGs a lot and during this time I was insulted a few times and even talked to by teachers at school, didn't like being called a satanist much either.
Almost all of the people who spoke to me had read the original news report which stated that D&D possibly caused this sucide run, very very few people read the later articles which started to point towards his other, real world problems.
Point I'm trying to make (in a long round about way and what is probably beaten to the ground by now:)) is this: how many of these cases where Video games have been blamed initially have actually turned out to be "not the whole story"?
I think there's just a whole idea of media and people as a whole who just run to the first thing they see and say "That's the reason!!"
Sorry for the ramble
The article refers to the game "Armageddon", which I have never heard of. The description sounds a lot like Carmageddon... Always a good time!
One error I noticed in the story...Brazil had previously banned the car racing game "Carmaggedon" which the article refers to as "Armageddon"
One final note...I think this too shall pass. Does anyone besides me remember about 9 or 10 years ago, when Dungeons & Dragons was all over the news because some kids had used a sword to kill one of their neighbors and they played D&D all the time? This same type of hysteria and irrational attacks that focus on video games now focused on D&D then. Quite a few schools banned it from being played. Guess what? D&D is still here. 10 years from now, violent video games will still be here, and the level of detail will be incredible. Check here if you want to see what level of realism video games will be attaining next summer.
This hysteria shall pass, and shall come again some other time. Kinda like Halley's comet, only more frequent and quite a bit more annoying.
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
So I was runnin around fraggin people and I saw this story and I just had to put my gun down. I said "Yo, what the !@#$^&? That's FUBAR, they have gone AWAL! Somene call the MPs to get those crazy Brazilians outta here!" After this I picked my BFG back up and started killing my enemies.
Did you notice how that was, like, FICTION?! HELLO! Wake up you Brazilian freaks! I mean aren't you the ones doing those military experiments on people and stuff? Sheesh!
yeah
id is going to be fucking pissed!
Sigh. It makes me so mad to see that people can blame everything but the system. "Hey, not everybody is a maniac running around shooting people. What could have caused this person to go on a killing spree? Hmm." Then insert your usual scapegoat reason. TV, movies, video games.
Maybe it's because mommy and daddy didn't raise this individual correctly.
But, what does logic have to do with it?
You know, it's really hard to kill three people and wound eight with an automatic handgun if automatic handguns are illegal.
Let's how long it takes for the gun nuts in the audience to moderate this down.
When gunmen attacked a bar on the southern outskirts of Sao Paulo last weekend, killing four women and three men in a hail of bullets, perhaps the most terrifying feature of the incident was its sheer normality. It was Sao Paulo's 28th multiple shooting so far this year, and such carnage is a familiar weekend event in several other Brazilian cities.
[...]
The Justice Ministry estimates that the country's 160m people hold perhaps 20m guns, of which only 1.5m are registered. According to a recent United Nations report, 88% of murders in Brazil are committed with firearms, a higher figure than in any other country.
Duke Nukem is virtual. If you live in Brazil, you play the game for real.
He felt like kicking ass and chewing bubble gum...
:)
But he was alll outta gum!
Kicking ass works just as well.
... bring in the Katz. (time for sleep)
I am constantly growing tired of hearing about "such-and-such" caused "so-and-so" to do "this-horrible-deed". When are people going to be held responsible for their actions? Blaming sick people's actions on anything from games, to TV, to (even our beloved friend) the internet has been a nice skapegoat for the press and people to say "Well, I'll be sure to look out for that." I'm sure that whoever that man was, he would have done the same thing regardless of whether he had played alot of duke nukem or doom, etc, etc. Plainly, this man was sick.. Instead of governments, parents and societies blaming people's actions on things that (i beleive) have no relevent baring on their own "free-will" actions, other steps should be taken. The Brazialian governemt has wasted time, money and manpower on banning things that are just going to become easily attainable through the internet anyway. Why not instead do they invest more time, money and manpower into finding ways to help people who are afflicted with these sorts of mental illnesses. I remember when Ice T's "Copkiller" album was released, and it was banned through-out a large portion of North America.. Any police shootings that happened afterward were then blamed because the shooter "had an Ice-T album." Wake up. People do horrible things because they want to, not because they see or hear them in games, TV music, etc.
video games - alledged pyschological effect
drugs - documented chemical effect
See the difference?
"Nobody owns the fucking words man." - James Dean
Perhaps it has something to do with the little trait many drugs have of altering the chemical balance of the mind?
If you shove a video game up your nose, I doubt it'd be good for you either.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
- Jeff
My first reaction was: those fucking brazilians are stupid, who cares about them. Then it occurred to me that a few hours ago my own Quebec government had banned smoking in the work place... for similar reasons. Smoking's bad for you vs violent games are bad for you... where's the difference?
Moral of the story: It can happen to anyone.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
Lets see,about a thousand different times and places.Computers are just a good scapegoat nowdays.chat on 'em if you want,but if anything goes wrong no matter what it is,blame it on a computer.Y2K hasn't been a huge help either...
Yeah, I still play it (using Zdoom.) Even though I have Quake 1 and 2, and Unreal tournament, Doom still has unique qualities and a level of fun equal to or greater than the new games. Plus, it's cheap and it will run on almost anything.
Banning theese games seems like a gross over reaction, the games are certainly not the real question here. However, the games reflect, in some way, the society as a whole, and that should be bothersome..
;-)
I haven't played games for a while (Quake II proably the most recent), and one have to wonder - where is the fun in games like Postal? It seems that fast 3D games have become synonyms for fast gory violent games. Seems unessesary to me.
(Go Tetris! Go Boulder Dash! Go nibbles!)
// Simon
Make no mistake about it. Games do influence kids in a major way. Warcraft, for example, can lead kids down a corrupt path of illegal logging, which is a very big concern in Brazil. And do we really want our young fishermen to have unrealistic expectations of fish sizes when they delve into games like Trophy Bass Fishing?
were going to ban a video game because it "trains" people for violence or some such I would ban Rogue Spear. I jump back in my seat when I get nailed in that game (due in part to my speakers turned to maximum). The realism of Rogue Spear train people for tactical situations alot more than Quake with its rocket jumping and plasma guns. Video games are the LAST reason people kill other people unless you're a fscking camper out on the up on the quad damage platform. I suppose video games are being banned because coke and selective fire weapons have already been banned. Or so it goes.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Robin, would you like something to wash down that foot? The Brazilian government chose to make violent video games the scapegoat -- you made it cocaine.
People like to draw conclusions that match their personal convictions and blame the problem on something else. If you like violent games, you blame cocaine, and vice versa. Personally, I think it's got everything to do with boredom, watching overdubbed American sitcoms on Brazilian TV. We'll never REALLY know why it happened -- trying to find the WHY and pointing the finger elsewhere isn't going to do any good.
Speaking of futile quests to find meaning in things that have none, I feel another JonKatz article coming on...
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E2 IN2 IE?
Why must such tragic things such as this be blamed on video games? It seems even more common now, with the Columbine situation, than in the past. I'm assuming the media and governments need some place to put the blame, rather than themselves, and video games seemed to meet the criteria. I've yet to come across a game that will get me so worked up and enraged, that I will decide to go on a shooting spree in public. Also, one question in regards to the article, since when was DOOM published by 3D Realms? I thought GT Interactive did the old id publishing... w3rd.
SYSOP ('sih-sop) n.: the guy laughing at your typing.
Well.. nevermind. Looks like they might have actually completed the game. Two years behind schedule.
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I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
It is not so much that we fear what we do not understand, as that we scapegoat what we do not enjoy. That which may be scapegoated may be suppressed; that which we enjoy ourselves we refuse to live without.
A recent poster mentioned a case in which, faced with the choice of blaming a suicide upon either a high school breakup, a sudden injury ending a football career, or a loss of a Dungeons and Dragons character, the media placed blame firmly upon the latter.
One can complain about the unfairness, or one can analyze it to determine the source of its absurdity in utterly plain terms.
Suppose, for a moment, that the media had chosen to scapegoat the breakup as the cause of the suicide. Immediate result--teen relationships deemed dangerous, parents advised to keep close watch on their out-of-control youth...but it doesn't work, because parents both remember their own, non-suicidal relationships and directly experience the estrangement caused if they meddle in teen relationships. Similarly, the many teens that had survived and moved on after a breakup realize the inaccuracy of blaming all breakups for the results of one breakup, and wouldn't care what their parents said anyway.
What's interesting, is while all parties involved in this scenario could *understand* the suicide in terms of a breakup, it's an ineffective scapegoat, and is thus curiously unsatisfying. If you can't suppress anything, the theory goes, you haven't done anything. It Could Happen Again.
What's really sad is that it's a direct consequence of being unable to put a dollar value on life! After all, if you absolutely *have* to do something, and you're not willing to take "acceptable losses" on the life side, you have to do something: Find non-life "acceptable losses" that are, of course, as little of a loss to you as possible. Teen dating is just too familiar to eliminate, so it's unsatisfying to blame.
And what of the two remaining options--football and D&D? Football's an American tradition. Only satanic freaks play D&D(note the distinct lack of understanding). Guess which makes the better Acceptable Loss.
And the real tragedy? Isolation is the real killer, but nobody wants to be forced to incur the "acceptable loss" of being friends with the isolated.
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Well, banning those games is one sure way to make them more popular. Speaking for myself, anything that is made illegal by a bunch of arrogant, spineless, and simple-minded politicians is something that I'm going to try, and definitely something that I'm going to support.
How long do you suppose it'll be before there's sites to download these games all over Brazil? If they try to shut down those sites, how hard do you suppose it will be to find a place in the US or elsewhere else to make the games freely available?
Prohibition does not work! It failed in the US against alcohol, it's failing against marijuana everywhere in the world, and it will fail against this, as well. Unfortunately, the people that run for office are rarely of a calibre that can learn from history, and almost invariably doomed (sorry for the pun) to repeat it.
Cocaine is their number 1 cash crop. Can't crack down on the guys who grow that stuff. 'Sides which they kind of run the place. And shoot you if you try to crack down on them. So blame the video games. Much safer. No one was ever dragged from their car and shot execution style by a pissed off video game cartel.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I noticed the above was moderated down. Let me say this: I WILL NEVER SAY WHAT THE MODERATORS WANT ME TO SAY. I will speak my own mind and not give a FUCK for what moderators think.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
The "theatre massacre" had an enormous repercussion in Brazilian media. The first move from the ministry was to restrict "The Fight Club" to sessions after 10PM and to adults only. Not a good deal IMHO -- the shooter is an adult, and it happened after 10PM anyway! Besides, the shooter declared that he didn't watch the movie before acting. What if it happened in Disney's "Tarzan", and if the guy was addicted to Civ or Tetris? Would they ban that too?
Last month a bank inside my school was robbed. The day after, they checked everyone's badges to enter the school. What's the idea? Would the bank robbers return using bad badges or something?
There's a clear difference between a guy that is already a psycho and happen to have certain (very popular) games in his computer, and all the rest of game players. How many of you slashdot readers have played Doom or DN and went to the streets exploding barrels and shooting people?
Brazil is a funny place indeed.
Here you can find a human rights report from the Department of State. It's not pretty at all.
/human1998/brazil.html
This excerpt is downright scaring:
The shooting of two suspected bank robbers by a police officer in Rio de Janeiro, recorded on video tape and broadcast in its entirety on the national evening news, graphically illustrated the commonplace use of lethal force by the police and the public's tolerant attitude toward such practices. On August 5, a uniformed police officer on duty in a busy public square in the Ipanema neighborhood of Rio de Janeiro, alerted by a bystander, approached two men on a parked motorcycle who were suspected of just having robbed a local bank. The uniformed policeman drew his gun and approached the two men. As he came close enough to question them, he also attempted to take a gun from one suspect who then attempted to draw the gun himself. Without further warning, the policeman shot both suspects in the head at point blank range in succession and fired four more times as the suspects lay on the ground. The initial intense media coverage of the incident focused mostly on the positive public response to the policeman's actions. His superiors decorated him for bravery. Some media and human rights observers questioned the appropriateness of the officer's action, his lack of training and preparation to deal with such an incident, and his use of lethal force in a crowded public area.
http://www.usis.usemb.se/human
Officer: Why did you do it?
Dude: Nerf Arena Blast made me do it.
...never accomplish through analysis of a situation what you can cover up by a good knee-jerk reaction.
-- the opinions stated above aren't those of my employer. in fact, they're probably not even my own. you know what, ju
If this is really true, someone hand me a BFG and I'll show 'em all. ha ha.
The above post was humorous... video games do not cause people to kill, perhaps the reverse is true, violent people are attracted to violent video games, thus they already possessed the desire before playing the game.
Get a clue brazil or the next time i'm playing x-pilot I'll make sure to bomb the hell out of your country.
Maybe they just banned these to quiet down the folks who must have something "external" to blame. Forcing retailers to remove these from the shelves probably didn't make many retailers too upset. They didn't make them do anything with Quake II, Quake III, Rainbow Six, Unreal, etc... This way, the gov't was able to do what gov'ts are good at. Satisfy the whining ignorant masses without upsetting the people with the bucks.
The police and justice here (I live in Sao Paulo - Brazil) are "TWO PIECES OF S**T", and if a crazy guy goes to a theater (the movie was Fight Club) with a Machine Gun and shoot lots of people, they have to do something just to "show" they're doing something. So what would be better than banning some old famous games they found at killer's house? (hey! it'll put then on TV!) If they try to ban some "new games" they'll make the big stores unhappy (who wants this ?).
In fact banning games will not stop people playing them. About 80% of the games here are pirated copies. Here, you easily can buy an "unoffical" game CD for R$10-R$15 (US$5-7) while the offical one may cost R$100 or more (US$50+)
PS.: when I say crazy guy I really means CRAZY (NUTS, BRAIN DAMAGED). The guy was under psycho treatment.
PS1: I don't think it's cool to buy or sell pirated games.
--
sorry about my poor spelling
I'm Brazilian. I even live in São Paulo. I submitted this the day it happened. I was rejected. Now that it's old news, it gets posted.
I used to trust /. to inform me. Guess it's time to get on with my plan of a news site, now that I have the server.
</rant>
No, no comments on the story. I even have some, but I'm too disappointed to remember them.
Oh, actually I do have an update. They later added a lot of other games to the list, including Quake. Nice thing to do on the week before Xmas.
Anyone remember Bed Bugs - for the C64 I think.
Whew. Sorry for the long post...
However, let's put things in perspective - Brazil would never ban a game for nudity or sexual depictions. As wrong as this action is, it should be compared with American tolerance - even mainstream celebration - of hardcore violence, couple with their puritanical fear of sexuality (as if people aren't supposed to be sexual before the age 21!) Despite the wrongheadedness of the approach, I think Brazil has its priorities right.
Coincidentally enough, I'm in Rio do Janeiro at the moment.
Why are you asking for confirmation of your questions? Either you know why you think and believe the way you do or you are just parroting something taught by others. Consensus doesn't mean correct.
The theme presented in the article is that some Brazilian officials believe that the games had some influence on the man. That Brazilian officials were most probably ( I can't know for sure ) motivated by their fear of the press. The people in the theater just want to know why some unstable freak was allowed to kill them without provocation.
My belief is that different people have different weaknesses. This fellow may have had a weakness for believing that aliens were attacking Brazil and needed to be stopped. I know people that have had weaknesses for ladies other than their wives, alcohol, drugs and money. Some of them no longer have to worry about their wives ( or their houses, cars, etc..) or their old jobs. Just because one person has a weakness dosen't mean that everyone has the same problem.
Your question: "However, will someone admit that by playing something like Quake, the player's aim in reality may be improved?"
This question probably seems valid if someone hasn't fired a gun. Its more like assuming that someone who has played TombRaider must be able to swim because Lara goes swimming in each game. Or that someone must be able to ride a bicycle because they watched re-runs of The Brady Bunch(tm) or be able to play basketball because they are tall.
Moving a dot around and clicking a mouse button aren't the same thing as firing a real weapon. The games help some people to improve their hand & eye coordination.
And about your "Can we keep saying that computer games, or violent movies, or X are 100% completely innocent? How about 99.99% innocent?" questions.
How can a game be guilty or innocent? If a book describes a bank robbery, is the book guilty of something? A person can be guilty or innocent but not an object. If this were not the case, then my car would be the one guilty of speeding, not me.
People make choices everyday. I usually choose between lunch choices, but I have never chosen to kill someone. Some people have chosen to take the life of another person. The killer made that choice, it didn't just happen without any responsibility.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Oh, come on now, this "political correct" language has gone too far! According to what I read in the news, that guy had been interned at a mental hospital for treatment of schizophrenic paranoia. He had delusional persecution ideas. He was released because there are laws in Brazil saying that a person who has not commited any crime cannot be held at a mental hospital against his or his family's wishes.
Well, a wacko is a wacko, he had been diagnosed by psychiatrists as a wacko. If the law says he is not a wacko, just someone with a "different perspective", then the law has been proved wrong by this guy's actions.
As for gun control, he was using a gun that is illegal in Brazil. However, that gun can be readily bought in some states in the USA, so it's not hard at all to get, just add the price of an air ticket to the USA. And don't think that outlawing the gun in all of the USA will help, if it can't be outlawed simultaneously in all the 165 (180? 195?) countries of the world, gun control will not work. The Brazilian police has caught drug dealers carrying made-in-USA Armalite M-16 rifles that, according to the serial numbers, had been used in Vietnam. How can you stop one of the poorest countries in the world from exporting its war booty for some badly needed cash?
Just as drug control doesn't work. This guy had taken cocaine, which is illegal everywhere (except in the marxist guerrilla dominated regions of Colombia), but he was a fifth year medical student, with ample access to any kind of legal drug.
So, what is the answer? Discrimination, of course, as in "the act of observing a difference". We should stop trying to treat everyone as equals. Everyone should have equal *opportunities*, but this does not imply equal *results*. You should have exactly the same chances as everyone else, but if you fuck-up, well, then fuck you.
from my story submissions page...
1999-12-13 11:26:44 Another country jumps on banning bandwagon (articles,news) (rejected)
wtf? My msg even posted the exact same damn url for the news story. this news is ~4 days old...
and while i'm at it.. i hate a browser that auto-selects the submit button when you hit the return key by mistake (micro$oft pos...)
-'fester
I have been at both cities. People in Medellin just take violence for granted, in São Paulo they are still trying to do something about it. But I have never seen barbed wire rolls ("concertina wire") above walls anywhere in Brazil, as I have seen in Los Angeles, New York, London, and Paris.
Actually,its not hard to kill and wound,were handguns illegal.
This is what the foolish governments that disarmed
their citizens are finding out.Criminals have no
trouble aquiring weapons.Crime rates have RISEN.
Its far easier to force your will on an unarmed
citizen than one who may or may not be carrying.
Think about that last sentence;was it meant from the point of view of a criminal or government,the
point is,it doesnt matter.
Video games arent going to be hard to aquire
either.Sadly though when a child does aquire one,
what will the penalty be?This is a country where
in the capital,the police have no trouble hunting
and killing homeless street children in order to
keep them from begging,picking pockets and otherwise
hassling tourists.What will be the penalty for
owning/distibuting dangerous video games? I hate
to think about it.
When a single armed citizen could have brought this nut down,there was no need for so many to
pay with their lives or health.
So arm yourselves,educate yourselves and practice so you will be effective and an asset
rather than a burden.
When this FAD of political correctness and
thoughtless liberalism fades(and it will)as
generation x grows up and discovers reality,
we can all breath a sigh of relief as we drop
that Quake cd into the tray,knowing that we are free to do so.Free,because an armed citizenry
has nothing to fear from its gov't. and gives its gov't.the only powers it will have.
So think before you vote Socialist(democrat),do
i want the freedom to play whatever games i choose?
Shall i trust Big Brother to legislate more
"politically correct"choices for me for the
"common good".Remember,there is no such thing as
"Social Justice",its just a PC way of saying
socialism and socialism is just a convenient way
for the few to rule and abuse the many.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
The answer to this is, it will not be enforced. Here in Brasil there are two laws. The one written by the govern and the one written by the people, and by people I am not talking about drug dealers or gangs or any type of criminal characther. The people here does not have knowledge of the laws, this is true even for police man.
To understand Brasil you must understand that the real law here is the "Brasilian way" (to those that understand portuguese this is the "jeitinho Brasileiro"). If you are stoped by a policeman say with maryjuana, what happens? The policeman will terrorize you, but unless you're poor he will not touch you, he might take you to a station where they will terrorize you even more. Then you or your father you pay a beer to the policeman and you are free to go.
I know this sounds off-topic, but it is realy on topic, most of the games here in brazil are actualy non-licensed (this maybe changing now due to terror inflicting campaings in the media like a mouse that the cord is handcuffing the hand that is using it). When the carmagedon, here named armagedon, was forbiden what actualy happend was that the game got more popular then he would ever be.
Then why ban games or anything for that matter? Like many already mentioned before, it is simply a media stunt. And by the way yesterday I went to a mall near my home, and surprize I saw normal store selling quake II and many more violent games.
--
"take the red pill and you stay in wonderland and I'll show you how deep the rabitt hole goes"
[]'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins
^[:wq
The human mind is something that no one realy knows how it works. Do I belive that this games, movies and the like that are violent could make a person go out and kill? Yes and no. This games could influence them as much as tetris or any other game for that matter. Any game have the ability to frustate a player, you probably already felt this way by one or two games. This is also true for movies, a movie could trigger something in one person that wouldn't exist in almost everyone else. A romantic movie could trigger a frustation of a viewer.
Should tertris or the romantic movie be banned? My answer is no, since the danger is in the person and not the game or movie that trigered the reaction. Ban one triger and other thing would trigger the feeling is just a matter of time.
--
"take the red pill and you stay in wonderland and I'll show you how deep the rabitt hole goes"
[]'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins
^[:wq
It seems that people around the world are following America's example of censoring/banning video games because of the "extreme" violence case. The fact of the matter is that there has been so much violence BEFORE real video games. All it is is people that are afraid and dont know what to do but they think that they DO know. At least people in Japan are enjoying their daily dose of violence blood and guts with REAL American-Like wrestling, Anime, and other television shows alike. They've accepted the fact that the shows arent harmful to the young people in their county and thats why it hasnt been banned. People in America and everywhere else that is trying to emulate america should open their eyes and minds and see that it really isnt video games that are screwing us, but the god damned system. Well, and Microsoft.
"It is not the first time Brazil banned popular computer games for excessive violence. Some time ago, it prohibited sales of ``Armageddon'' car race game, where players rack up points by running over pedestrians rather than setting speed records."
The game is called Carmageddon. The movie about the end of the world due to meteors was Armageddon. Although the end of the world is called The Apocalypse. Armageddon is the war to end all wars.
-PovRayMan
----------
Check out my blackbox styles
I quote, "Duke Nukem and Doom have been designed by 3D Realms Co." Last time I checked, Doom was designed by id Software.
Go figure.
These games are pretty much leading edge stuff in Brasil. Considering that computer hardware is at roughly four times the cost there than in the states, the typical gaming machine is a Pentium 200 with 32 MB of RAM, if people have gaming computers at all. Not everyone can just go to the local Comp-USA and pick up a PIII 600 for ~1500 USD.
-- lk t lv ll th vwls t f wrds. T svs lts f tm t wrt bt ts pn n th ss t rd nd mks m lk lk cmplt dpsht.
You know, the real problem here is society's lack of understanding of coke fiends. The coke fiends at the local high school are picked on mercilessly by the jocks, the girl scouts and the geeks. And then people wonder why they go on murderous rampages.
Oh the horror of being a misunderstood cokefiend in our modern world.
... you wouldn't know what socialist was if it jumped up and bit you on the bottom.
Your Democrats are fairly right-wing by everyone else's standards, and as for the Republicans, you might as well just call them the "American National Front" for want of something better.
Socialist is a bit more left-wing than moderate right-wing liberalism. In fact over here, socialist is every bit as unpermissive as the extreme right.
You have your liberals and your socialists all muddled up!
I'm out of my tree just now but please feel free to leave a banana.
There's a difference between the reality of "traces of cocaine in his blood" and the hype "he was also a coke fiend." Typical Slashdot overreaction, blaming irrelevant details for a deeper problem.
Axes to grind? We don't have no stinkin' axes to grind!
--
I moderate at +3, Highest Scores, and I always mod down.
If you don't like it, vote me off the island.
Well, we did all but wipe out the indiginous Americans.
As for setting foot in my country, that's what we have an army, navy and airforce for.
I'm out of my tree just now but please feel free to leave a banana.
Grand Theft Auto, Banned In Brazil. Perhaps they are just trying to be more like the Terry Gilliam movie? As to this, well, Brazil is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there (unless their government becomes more sane).
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I wouldn't want to live in Brazil if their government is as arbitrary as it seems to be, but I used to know a Brazilian girl named Paloma who was really great. I also have a semi-family member living their, (my God-father's sister) and she seems happy.
Still, I guess unless I could switch hobbies from gaming to sex, I wouldn't be happy in Brazil ;-) As far as I know, there just aren't that many good games that are mainly about sex from a gamers perspective. For example, Japanese "girl games" in my experience have a really crude interface that makes the original King's Quest look state of the art. Of course, I suppose that the latest games of that type have a hard time making it out over here. I admit Three Sisters Story is ok... but it's not the kind of thing I could see anyone basing a lifestyle around like Quake, Doom, or a lot of other types of games.
On the other hand, I can legally buy Three Sisters Story in the US, just as long as I don't expect to pick it up at the local Babbages, but I won't pretend that American attitudes about sex don't cause a lot of misery and idiotic laws. Still, it would seems that seen through the narrow lens of gaming, the US is preferable to Brazil.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Ooosp, I meant outside of Sao Paulo, not Buenos Aires.
You may be right about people getting sick of playing 3D games. As a brazilian citizen, I would like to say you're completely wrong to say "Brazil is nuts", just because a judge, a single judge, decided to ban games, based on a crime (the details, you get by yourself). What if I said "America is nuts" because some Texas judge banned games like, say, Blood, because of the Unabomber? Although I know there is a lot of discussion in US about your so called freedom... I am pretty sure we get a lot more of freedom (even if outlawed) here, in the nuts country, than in your rich, civilized country.
Excuse me, "Anonymous Coward" (that really made sense now!), but since I don't know where are you from, let me say that we do have laws here, and media whores such as this judge that banned the games (no matter how old they are, I don't give a damn, for I believe this is a case of freedom in all of its ways, not of how elite the game is, or how cool are its graphics, ...). There are instances of courts here. Yes, just like in the US. You know what I mean. Your thought is the most common between people that know nothing about foreign affairs. You called Brazil "they", like if it was a common, public and voted decision by the brazilian people. No, it was not. Most of us do not agree with that. We are not against the freedom of speech, acts, and will. We have pollitical parties, ranging from liberals to communists. What I mean, after all, is that the decision was taken by a single person, with its (stupid, btw) thought that the killer was inspirated on duke nukem 3d (it could have been grand theft auto, if it was a car theft, who knows what these kind of people can think). The judge is very uninformed about the case and all he/she got was popularity. We were shocked with such a stupid, and, btw, unconstitucional decision, and will FIGHT these kind of acts. I hope you understood what the situation is.
What is the point? I can't understand why you and all those many many people who know nothing about why did that took place, what happened before the judge banned the games, etc etc. The judge (and me, btw) didn't give a damn for the reality of the games. They really are all violent. Quake 1/2 is violent. Quake 3 probably is/will be violent. But that's NOT the point of this discussion! We cannot rate if that is nice or not! Ok, rate the games 18 years only (like it should have been forever), becuase they are violent, but banning them is stupid, because people can do whatever they want of their lives, as soon as this is legal! And freedom IS legal in Brazil! (at least, thats what they say in our constitution, but, unfortunately, that goes to the pollitical scene, beyond this kind of board). So, I hope you ALL stop posting stupid things about the games themselves.
We Brazilians do NOT applaud the killing of children in the streets.
We Brazilians do NOT like the fact that some children don't have homes.
We are trying very hard to surface after centuries of neglect followed by decades of dictatorship. We have problems.
If you are genuinely interested in the Brazilian situation please seek information and try to make your own mind. There are many things happening here and I hate to see all the world knows about is that children were killed and maybe that we're a very sexual people.
Please, what exactly do you mean our problems are with our people? Maybe there's a problem with the way our society has evolved, I could accept that, but the people?? In exactly what way do you propose the Brazilian people, all 190 million of us, are problematic?
Don't give your opinion on subjects you aren't into. There are state-of-the-art computers here for the best price you can get from our broken economy. The common computer here is an AMD K6 300/400, at least. (I got one P200MMX for free from a friend upgrading to Pentium II, btw.)
Thanks moderators for tolerating racism.
..
"We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom."
Bitchslapped? Give Rob a bitchslap from bitchslapped.com.
Am I the only person who would rather read so-called "karma whore" postingings than whines about said same postings?
Karma isn't really working out...ah well..
Oh..btw, I've enjoyed every post I've seen of Dan's.
Doom was never on the store shelves, it's only availible by mail order.
'Nuff said on subject!
Cesar Cardoso can be found at cesar at zyakannazio dot eti dot br (or at least I believe so)
...the police there think that some nutcase who went on a shooting spree in Sao Paulo last month was copying a scene from Duke Nukem...
Gee, so he turned himself into a 2-D character, buffed up his muscles and started to run around with an automatic weapon that seems to hit whatever target you want regardless of where you shoot it?
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Uh, I can't seem to figure out what you're trying to say. Are you flaming the last guy or do you agree with him? Part of your post seems to be telling him off for grouping all Brazilians together, which he didn't. Then the rest seems to be a rant against stupid public figures who subscribe to the kneejerk philosophy of government which is so popular today. That is what the previous poster means by they.
Michael Gentili
- He's just some guy, you know?
You must be kidding.
To me, what's most scary is the positive reaction of the Brazilian people. This kind of killings by the police never deter crime, they merely tell criminals to try robbing banks in groups of seven or eight people, to be able to finish off any lone policeman approaching. It's evident to me that the approval of police killings by some Brazilians reveal that they are very tired and fed up with the situation in the streets. However, this is no solution, but part of the problem.
Coke Addled Gun Wielding Psychos don't kill people, Video Games Kill People.
Score one for the perenially stupid.
Exactly what scene was the nutball trying to replicate from the Duke Nukem video game? Do Brazilian cops look like pigs? Are there even any innocents in that game that you can harm (ahem: Carmageddon) besides the strippers of course! hehe "shake it baby!" Do they have strippers in Brazil?
Get a life!
It's not because some moron minister says some
bullshit that it is likely to go anywhere.
I'm sure it'd be good to have some good games
in French but the odds are that they'd be
speaking some weird dialect from France that
no French speaking person here in the USA or
in Canada could understand. Any ban of English
only games would create a huge black market.
Most kids in Québec know enough english to play
just about any American games and almost no
one know the weird slang used in France.
The Québec prime minister is married to an
American lady and I would be surprised if he'd
want to deprive his kids of good American games.
Which is yet another reason you'll never see this "nigger" go any farther south than Chicago.
At least you figured out what the subject line was implying -- you must be one of those "smart" people in Alabama who know how to read.
Is the state of the U.S. space program a surprise to anyone? It's run entirely by the intellectually and culturally enlightened people in the South!
--
E2 IN2 IE?
would they have banned all Hollywood movies?
:)
actually, that wouldn't be such a bad thing
)O(
the Gods have a sense of humour,
Never underestimate the power of stupidity
To err is human, to moo bovine
Do not call us idiots! I desagree with this action too.. I don't think people will start killing because of those games.. Just crazy people do this.. So.. I live in Brasil and I'm not an idiot.. we're not idiots..
Funny, we too.
Okay, I understand that certain point now.
In Germany they're banning this kind of games faster than you can develop them. OOOh, look there's blood. Censor it, censor it, it must be evil, it will turn our kids into homicidal manicas, censor it, never let those kids come into contact with death, the sight of even one iota of blood will make them a psychotic, censor it, censor it, move along, there's nothing to see here, there is no evil in Germany, what you are not allowed to see can't possibly exist, censor it.
I just saw an interesting television show tonight.
After the second world war, somebody conducted some studies of soldiers from that war and discovered that apparently only 15% of the men actually fired on a man coming towards them.
Between that time and the Vietnam war, the military began to use conditioning. This consisted of having the men fire at man like targets while being trained, thus conditioning them to fire on man like shapes without thinking.
The same study technique was used on soldiers from the Vietnam war and it was discovered that 90% of the soldiers in that war fired on an enemy soldier.
No, video games couldn't possibly have a shred of influence on anybody's behavior.
----------------------
That being said, there is a difference between video games making it easier for someone to kill, and making them go out and kill.
In fact, the only "weird French dialect" is being spoken in Canada.... ;)
Karma cannot be described by words alone.
> We have this odd thing called freedom of speech.
Not for very long, trust me.
Karma cannot be described by words alone.
Geez, someone needs to get Sheila Brovloski down there stat.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
"Duke Nukem and Doom have been designed by 3D Realms Co."
Duke Nukem is developed by 3D Realms, and its sequel Duke Nukem Forever is in development at 3D Realms now.
Doom is developed by id software. Wolfenstein 3D, developed by id software, is distributed by Apogee Software. 3D Realms is a 3D game development division of Apogee Software.
For further information, please visit www.3drealms.com. There is a very informative (and accurate) FAQ there describing the genesis of shareware and PC action gaming.
Mr. Joe Siegler, our webmaster, can probably straighten this out better than I can.
Corrinne Yu
3D Engine Programmer
3D Realms/Apogee
Dudes,
First of all I know how slashdot uses the word "karma" and I'm not sure if I really like it. Do you know where Karma comes from? Its roots are in sanskrit. I realize that we English speakers like to bastardize other peoples' languages and use their meanings for our own purposes but in some cases [as in Karma] this is not necessarily very noble. It can breed ignorance of the true meaning of very simple, yet profound ideas. Just look at the bastardized, fundamentally flawed, partial interpretations of "tao", and the t'ai chi principle of "yin-yang."
karma n : (Hinduism and Buddhism) the effects of a person's actions that determine his destiny in his next incarnation Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
Of course this is not the only definition of Karma but slashdot acts as if Karma is some kind of one sided "do good and you'll go to heaven" type thing or "if you sound smart enough then you are kool."
As far as I know, the only time I have heard of gaining Karma is when one does something "bad" [I'm gonna say that word and point out that I realize the eastern philosophical trap.] And one "works off" karma by doing "good" deeds?
What I so loosely characterized as good and bad is actually not what we westerners think of as good and bad in a moral sense. The good and bad in relationship to karma are related to dharma [loosely: The principle or law that orders the universe. The individual conduct in conformity with this principle. And the essential function or nature of a thing.] So something "good" is something that goes along with the principles of the universe. Something bad is something that goes against the true nature of the universe.
I have heard it used differently in both traditions [hinduism and buddhism.] I'm not really sure, but I think that Karma is not really used in the sense of "good karma", and "bad karma" outside of colloquialism [colloquialism n : a colloquial expression; characteristic of spoken or written communication that seeks to imitate informal speech Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University ]. I'm not sure if a buddhist or hindu would place a moral value upon karma as some of us are so fond of doing. I'm not sure if it would even be considered a philosophical possibility. If someone knows more about this please elaborate [my main interest lying in tao rather than buddhism or hinduism, though "dharma" in some ways resembles tao.. hrmm]
Dan, I loved the post. I am happy to see that some people who read this site are fluent and are very constructive thinkers. For those of you who claim to not understand it and claim to know what karma is; go read some books. Become literate. Learn what a sound, constructive argument is.
Why do all of the ignorant people who can't hold their attention span for more than a three word sentence seem to think that the only things worth reading can be written in under three minutes?
"Dude, Linux Rulz."
"Down with Microserf."
"Reading is hard."
"huh, insightful arguement?"
"correct grammar yes?"
"Three word sentence?"
Tip of the day: If you don't know the word use "www.dictionary.com"
I'm not attacking anyone, but why is it that those who don't really seem to care about anyone or anything attack those who seem to have a little insight? Is it a backlash against intellect, spirituality, and anti-ignorance or is it jealousy? Oh, this post is also in response to many of the other bandwagon jumping iliterates who posted below.
Random Task
"wu-wei" man "we-wei"
Feel free to correct my grammar if you think it proves some point.
"I can hoist a Jack. I can lay a track. I can pick and shovel too. I'll do anything you hire me to." - John Cash "Legen