After an ISP I worked at got bitten real hard by the remote root vuln in (i think it was ws_ftp) in 6.0 we migrated then. I have been running Mandrake since, but recently tried debian, and I'm not sure if it would be possible to migrate to anything else.
As a matter of fact I do have about 10 years of real-world experience. I started working on my first sun box in about 94 (when I was in college).
Those figures were slightly exaggerate (although not by much), and I wasn't reffering to a _present_ new $10k system from sun, but rather the 300Mhz e250 we have sitting here doing nothing because we build our own in-house that are waaay faster, and have waaay more storage. The typical price for an in-house system is around $600. That usually is around 1-2Ghz, 512Mb DDR ram, 80G HD(you can't get smaller anymore).
Systems we have where they are _absolutley_ critical that they stay running, are run on Sun or RS6000, running AIX 4.3.* (we're a little behind the times). And we pay through the nose for support on those also. 10 years ago, would you have run a company website or a firewall on a standard 133Mhz intel PC? (well cisco's pix was pc but you paid for that big time). Hell no! Now you can. We have in-house systems that have over a year of uptime (i know i know uptime is overrated...it's still a valuable benchmark). Our webservers cost roughly $600, and have survived about 3 slashdottings, the T1's didn't, but the servers did. The only problems we've had are some of them run hot, so we replace the fan, and it's done.
Dude, I you are not disagreeing with me. I agree that back in the day Sun had the best OS/Hardware combination around. Most of the dot coms circa '98 '99 were buying sun boxes like crazy. That was then, this is now. Now price/performance points matter more than anything. Yes they will keep selling to very large clients who have large installations, need the support/stability more than air and have tons of money (ala banks and stock exchanges). Yes they will be around for a while, they are still a monster, and the article is complete FUD.
ah got it.:-) Yeah Sun isn't in that much trouble. They've just been slow to turn into the cheap server markets. They're doing it, and doing it well. They just need to think "cheap". I think that's one reason why they are moving a lot of low end stuff to the Opteron. Plus they still get to say "64bit".:-)
HP and IBM leadership saw the commodity server/os thing comming post dot com crash and moved their products and services with the market. Sun did not as a result they lost the low to middle-end server market. I don't think they will get it back. I hope they succeed in whatever they are doing now, but right now it hurts to be a sun employee/share holder.
right, I think we agree there. Sun is as bad at Microsoft as far as predicting trends. I think it only hurts to be a stock holder if you bought right before things started going down. Just don't sell if you bought higher. Right now is a prime time to buy into Sun if you don't own any of their stock presently though. Sun has some exciting things coming, and it will only get better.:-)
I actually agree with you regarding Java, Sun should hold on to it. However, if Sun continues it's slide I would rather they open source it than sell it to a vendor (like IBM) who is going mutilate to put in a lot of proprietary tie ins to their product line (like websphere).
If Sun were to go the way of DEC or Be, sure, pull a Netscape and OSS it right before you crash. OSS'ing before that would surely be very bad for all.
whatever, cower Just remove the ass part from bad-ass and you have the state of the current UltraSparcs
cower under AC status. The CPU's themselves are pretty sweet. But one of the best features of sun is the the I/O of the boards themselves are really low. We have a sun system that can have between 30-40 users each one generating a report that takes hours to complete, the RAID can be in a total state of "thrashing" yet I can log in and the console just acts the same as if nobody was on when nobody was doing anything.
I don't use tru64 for anything but it's still sad to see that:-(.
I disagree with you on the server side. They had kick-ass servers when there needed to be kick-ass servers. They were way expensive (think 20K for a dual proc web server circa 95). The "." server used to be run on a Sun (when they upgraded they put it on the rs6000 it's currently on IIRC). Sun's problems was underestimting this whole OSS thing. Now I can build a server that is twice as fast as a $10k sun for $300 if I search pricewatch long enough. It took a few years for Sun to catch up (which they really are only doing now). They got the price of their servers down, they've managed to change the face of office suites for all of us (you _DO_ use OpenOffice right?), they take care of Java***, now with opteron and the deals with China, Sun ain't going anywhere. No other company (besides maybe IBM) has the level of support that Sun has (granted...you pay for it). If I have a problem with my sun server (pretend the bridge or one of the CPU's dies) Sun will troubleshoot for 20 minutes over the phone (sometimes less if the problem is really obvious), and within 1 hour (even at 2am) will have someone out with a new part and have it replaced. It's expensive but it's saved my companies ass at least 3 times that I can think of. If that server had been "Bryan buit"(that's my name) then we would have been totally screwed depending on the problem.
***I agree with Sun on this one. open sourcing Java would create incompatible forks and would probably kill java.
Sun took a little bit of a beating because of cheap servers and cheap clusters. The ultrasparc is still a pretty bad-ass CPU though. Sun has figure out that they need to keep entry level server at around the $999 level and have done so for over a year now. With the new Opteron's and a metric ass-load of cash, Sun is most certainly not going to be another DEC. There are still DEC systems being made (just under the HP flag now), and you can still buy new Tru64, OpenVMS stations, etc...
If my company needs anything beyond the $600 and $700 range, I would recomend Sun any day of the week.
actually since FTP is a standard protocol that is untrue. As for the xeronx thing Apple gave xeron stocks in exchange for the right to use it (granted it was piddily in comparison). And Apple _did_ sue microsoft. IIRC in windows 2.0 M$ even had a "Trash " icon. Later to be renamed to "Recycle Bin" as a result of that lawsuit (among other things).
While reading the post I was thinking the entire time of the one at the end of Jedi. I guess another good one is the one from the 80's movie The Last Starfighter. Of course I was a kid so I dunno if would hold the same appeal now (whereas Jedi does).
Whoa! That is pretty cool. But even if the paperwork was signed tomorrow. How long would it be before you could get a PPC board? a year? longer? I guess I'll keep dreaming. For the record, I do have an older 6500 running yellowdog that is nice although slooooow (225MHZ), and requires MacOS too boot since you cannot gain access to the firmware. The combination of a dual PPC, and *nix that I build myself makes me tingley:-) or maybe that just cuz I have a sick mind.
Ya I've been following that story since it was posted on misc@openbsd.org last week sometime. IT really is a shame. OBSD on a pegasos board would have made the price _almost_ worth it. Maybe if I can find a board on ebay I might try it with yellowdog or something. I won't give money to that company[genesi].
Slashdot Mirror
There was a remote root in ws_ftpd, that _ONLY_ affected RH 6.0. I guess _that's_ where the "don't run Red Hat DOT-OH releases" came from eh? :-)
Forgive the karma whoring, but this got so buried nobody will find it...just a torrent link.
Since he doesnt allow direct downloads.... who has a torrent of the 'real thing'...
Torrent, and Source torrent.
After an ISP I worked at got bitten real hard by the remote root vuln in (i think it was ws_ftp) in 6.0 we migrated then. I have been running Mandrake since, but recently tried debian, and I'm not sure if it would be possible to migrate to anything else.
see here *sigh*
As a matter of fact I do have about 10 years of real-world experience. I started working on my first sun box in about 94 (when I was in college).
Those figures were slightly exaggerate (although not by much), and I wasn't reffering to a _present_ new $10k system from sun, but rather the 300Mhz e250 we have sitting here doing nothing because we build our own in-house that are waaay faster, and have waaay more storage. The typical price for an in-house system is around $600. That usually is around 1-2Ghz, 512Mb DDR ram, 80G HD(you can't get smaller anymore).
Systems we have where they are _absolutley_ critical that they stay running, are run on Sun or RS6000, running AIX 4.3.* (we're a little behind the times). And we pay through the nose for support on those also. 10 years ago, would you have run a company website or a firewall on a standard 133Mhz intel PC? (well cisco's pix was pc but you paid for that big time). Hell no! Now you can. We have in-house systems that have over a year of uptime (i know i know uptime is overrated...it's still a valuable benchmark). Our webservers cost roughly $600, and have survived about 3 slashdottings, the T1's didn't, but the servers did. The only problems we've had are some of them run hot, so we replace the fan, and it's done.
Dude, I you are not disagreeing with me. I agree that back in the day Sun had the best OS/Hardware combination around. Most of the dot coms circa '98 '99 were buying sun boxes like crazy. That was then, this is now. Now price/performance points matter more than anything. Yes they will keep selling to very large clients who have large installations, need the support/stability more than air and have tons of money (ala banks and stock exchanges). Yes they will be around for a while, they are still a monster, and the article is complete FUD.
:-) Yeah Sun isn't in that much trouble. They've just been slow to turn into the cheap server markets. They're doing it, and doing it well. They just need to think "cheap". I think that's one reason why they are moving a lot of low end stuff to the Opteron. Plus they still get to say "64bit". :-)
:-)
ah got it.
HP and IBM leadership saw the commodity server/os thing comming post dot com crash and moved their products and services with the market. Sun did not as a result they lost the low to middle-end server market. I don't think they will get it back. I hope they succeed in whatever they are doing now, but right now it hurts to be a sun employee/share holder.
right, I think we agree there. Sun is as bad at Microsoft as far as predicting trends. I think it only hurts to be a stock holder if you bought right before things started going down. Just don't sell if you bought higher. Right now is a prime time to buy into Sun if you don't own any of their stock presently though. Sun has some exciting things coming, and it will only get better.
I actually agree with you regarding Java, Sun should hold on to it. However, if Sun continues it's slide I would rather they open source it than sell it to a vendor (like IBM) who is going mutilate to put in a lot of proprietary tie ins to their product line (like websphere).
If Sun were to go the way of DEC or Be, sure, pull a Netscape and OSS it right before you crash. OSS'ing before that would surely be very bad for all.
whatever, cower Just remove the ass part from bad-ass and you have the state of the current UltraSparcs
cower under AC status. The CPU's themselves are pretty sweet. But one of the best features of sun is the the I/O of the boards themselves are really low. We have a sun system that can have between 30-40 users each one generating a report that takes hours to complete, the RAID can be in a total state of "thrashing" yet I can log in and the console just acts the same as if nobody was on when nobody was doing anything.
I don't use tru64 for anything but it's still sad to see that :-(.
I disagree with you on the server side. They had kick-ass servers when there needed to be kick-ass servers. They were way expensive (think 20K for a dual proc web server circa 95). The "." server used to be run on a Sun (when they upgraded they put it on the rs6000 it's currently on IIRC). Sun's problems was underestimting this whole OSS thing. Now I can build a server that is twice as fast as a $10k sun for $300 if I search pricewatch long enough. It took a few years for Sun to catch up (which they really are only doing now). They got the price of their servers down, they've managed to change the face of office suites for all of us (you _DO_ use OpenOffice right?), they take care of Java***, now with opteron and the deals with China, Sun ain't going anywhere. No other company (besides maybe IBM) has the level of support that Sun has (granted...you pay for it). If I have a problem with my sun server (pretend the bridge or one of the CPU's dies) Sun will troubleshoot for 20 minutes over the phone (sometimes less if the problem is really obvious), and within 1 hour (even at 2am) will have someone out with a new part and have it replaced. It's expensive but it's saved my companies ass at least 3 times that I can think of. If that server had been "Bryan buit"(that's my name) then we would have been totally screwed depending on the problem.
***I agree with Sun on this one. open sourcing Java would create incompatible forks and would probably kill java.
10 ? "CmdrTaco and Kathleen stting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G";
15 ? CHR$(7)
20 goto 10
Sun took a little bit of a beating because of cheap servers and cheap clusters. The ultrasparc is still a pretty bad-ass CPU though. Sun has figure out that they need to keep entry level server at around the $999 level and have done so for over a year now. With the new Opteron's and a metric ass-load of cash, Sun is most certainly not going to be another DEC. There are still DEC systems being made (just under the HP flag now), and you can still buy new Tru64, OpenVMS stations, etc...
If my company needs anything beyond the $600 and $700 range, I would recomend Sun any day of the week.
even better /backupdirectory && dd of=backup.img'
YOu can use ssh keys and cron to make it automatic. :-)
dd if=/dev/hda | ssh user@remotehost 'cd
klez, sobig, blaster, traxg, beagle, gator, savenow, mydoom, hotbar, and that's as far as I get before I have to format and install unix!
actually since FTP is a standard protocol that is untrue. As for the xeronx thing Apple gave xeron stocks in exchange for the right to use it (granted it was piddily in comparison). And Apple _did_ sue microsoft. IIRC in windows 2.0 M$ even had a "Trash " icon. Later to be renamed to "Recycle Bin" as a result of that lawsuit (among other things).
Ever heard of India?
You're posting from windows aren't you? Since it is the best-made OS in the world. ;-)
the research for this project? Tool's Aenima. Pretty sane advice...learn to swim.
oh man! you mean to tell me I've been avoiding carpool tunnels, and staying in the heavier traffic for no reason?
ack...must...pull...hands...from...keyboard...not. ..strong...enough...to...resist...
I don't see anything spatial about the new nautilus
Dang...
You finally saw the yacht in the seemingly random bunch of dots!
actually it's a schooner
While reading the post I was thinking the entire time of the one at the end of Jedi. I guess another good one is the one from the 80's movie The Last Starfighter. Of course I was a kid so I dunno if would hold the same appeal now (whereas Jedi does).
Whoa! That is pretty cool. But even if the paperwork was signed tomorrow. How long would it be before you could get a PPC board? a year? longer? I guess I'll keep dreaming. For the record, I do have an older 6500 running yellowdog that is nice although slooooow (225MHZ), and requires MacOS too boot since you cannot gain access to the firmware. The combination of a dual PPC, and *nix that I build myself makes me tingley :-) or maybe that just cuz I have a sick mind.
Maybe I just have a sick mind, but I parsed the story title as "The Power of Perversion" I feel like a dirty old man now...
Ya I've been following that story since it was posted on misc@openbsd.org last week sometime. IT really is a shame. OBSD on a pegasos board would have made the price _almost_ worth it. Maybe if I can find a board on ebay I might try it with yellowdog or something. I won't give money to that company[genesi].
I still want a PPC ATX board. Pegasos was supposed to deliver, but their boards are still so expensive. :-(