"I see no reason why, if Mandrake can do this, the others (E.g. Redhat and SuSe) can't"
You do realize where mandrake got their original code to even do this? Sound card detection has been like shooting fish in a barral for years now. The challenge comes with other hardware. At that point most people new to linux install it and pray for it to be setup.
In a few years Microsoft right or wrong, is set to drop all backwords compatibility. That means Office X Netscape X and all of your products will no longer work without new versions. Now those of us who have used NAV, Ghost, etc come to expect this from our System utilities. But for the first time MS is planning a complete break with all legacy products and code. Imagine the Mac OS X debute but without the Classic environment. Now imagine when MS takes is 90% desktop market share and does the same thing. Hopefully by then those fucktards in Washington won't have made Linux illegal and ISV's will actually be making software for it. Adobe and Intuit I'm looking at you.
Surprise! Most desktop power users who are already on a niche desktop OS prefer Mozilla over Netscape.
You know I just don't think its fair how much shit AOL/netscape get for contributing to the Mozilla project. You do remember who started this whole ball rolling? You do also realize who has paid people to work on this?
Oh so big deal they add a few aol icons to your desktop that you can instantly delete. You know Moz may end up being the default browser for linux desktop OS's, but you got another thing coming if you think that the few remaining corporations or "grandma's" out there that use Netscape are going to migrate to Mozilla over Netscape. Do you think ISP's are going to start bundling Moz over Netscape? Really think about the fact that Mozilla is about technology, while Netscape is about a supported end user project. That is the goal of the Mozilla project, to put out great technology, not to replace Netscape.
Personally I think the Netscape 7 "package" finally represents a realthreat to MS. With the new DOJ rules, Netscape/AOL can finally have a real chance at getting some OEM's to not use IE, Outlook, and messenger and WMP. They can just drop in their own products and the end user won't miss a step, since it will be preloaded.
So you all you naysayers, I say your picking the wrong fight.
"1.1 is still a very immature version, compared to the Internet Explorer family of technologies, which is currently in version 6.x and still being improved daily"
No problem Netscape 7 is coming out and then we will have a version 7.x to trump your 6.x
"When will Mozilla feature speedier web browsing, and better integration with best-of-breed Microsoft products such as MSN messenger and Outlook XP"
Well it already is faster at rendering pages then IE. Especially its faster than IE for Linux. Ooops I forgot you don't make a product for linux. When is that coming out again? Regarding integration with Microsoft products, feel free, they are your virus magnets, I mean products after all.
"A theme that more closely matches the award winning Windows look-and-feel would also be helpful."
Hehe now its award wining huh? Well I guess Apple would be proud of you for stealing their ideas. If you really need the "IE" look and feel, just download the IE theme from Mozdev.org.
1998 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft? 1991 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft? 2000 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft? 2001 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft? 2002 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft?
How many times can you ask the same stupid question and how many more years can you be wrong?
Redhat continues to put out GPL software year after year and like it or not is the poster child for linux. Which commercial linux vendor from back in the day would you have rather have won out? Suse, Caldera, Turbolinux?
Redhat does not have a monopoly on linux and never will. It's just not possible. Now maybe they will be the leading commercial linux in the corporate world, but dam it they have earned it.
I know I like many other long time linux users have always wanted linux to make it big. World domination was always the joke, but really there is a bit truth in there. Why oh why did anyone think that all 450 linux distros would equally share in the fruits of commercial linux's success?
Yea I just downloaded it last week and I'm really impressed. Things you can do with it off the top of my head.
Emergency disk repair via a nice gui! Network scanning via nmap and ethereal. How cool is it to be able to plug into a compromised network and scan it without worrying about your system. Ssh and vnc for admin without having to install it on your machine. This is great if you only have access to windows machine and don't want to have to download/install and software. Secure web surfing. Want to check your email or do something else online that won't leave cookies etc on the local machine? Great way to demo for people new to linux and let them learn linux without fear of them destroying their machine. This really would work great in a classroom setting and sure as hell beats having to reghost the machines every day.
You get a usuable full featured linux system on any machine with a cdrom. It really is very usuable as a desktop on any half decent machine. The only time it felt slow was when launching Open Office. Every other app launched faster than I though it would.
I know its not a new concept and others are available but its the best I've used so far,and should go in any admin's toolkit.
I think your rant is a bit misplaced. MS's PEAP is an effort to create a standard to go with MS's future HOME wireless products. Its not an effort to destroy existing EAPTTLS vendors like Funk et al, nor is it an effort to ensure linux clients can't participate in secure networks. How many linux users do you know that will be buying MS's home wireless kits?
Regarding EAPTLS and certificates, it actually works very well and is completely Free if you using Win2k and XP clients as opposed to the expensive software that does EAPTTLS. A PKI that is setup to serve wireless clients in a corporate environment is not hard for any decent windows admin to setup. All you have to do is buy 802.1x hardware like the excellant Orinoco products and in under 2 hours you have a full 802.1x network with rotating keys and Mutual authentication. I have this set up at home and its awesome. You can read about how to set it up here. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/techinfo/de ployment/wireless/default.asp
For those of you without a 2k AD domain, you can emulate this with opensoure software by using FreeRadius which now supports 802.1x http://www.freeradius.org/ Also for more opensource goodness please visit http://www.open1x.org/
On tip for those of you interested in 802.1x is to buy a Orinoco RG1000 an excellent AP in its own right and flash it with the AP-500 firmware. That way you get a 802.1x Wireless AP for ~$100.
In conclusion if you still reading realize that while MS is bad(very bad) this is not an effort to lock linux out or wireless security.
"Well instead of discussing the usability problems of KDE and the huge installation issues"
What huge installation issues? I've always just followed the direction for my distro and not have any problems. I seem to recall looking at how many packages I had to download to upgrade Gnome not long ago and thinking how happy I was that KDE required like 1/5 as many packages. Every reviewer out their that I have seen has said that one of the few things that makes the transition from Windows to Linux a bit easier is the user friendliness of KDE.
"They have only themselves to blame for there lack of success."
Again what is the basis for this statement? The fact that KDE is the most widely used Linux gui that pretty much every distro has standardized on it? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
It wouldn't surprise me and goes in line with their current effort of "advising" the government on how linux is evil. Remember Corel dropping linux? Yes the linux desktop was a tough market, but really there is no doubt it was a quid pro quo transaction.
Also what's with MS giving its software away for Free to a different government every week? Its a clear pattern designed to make sure noone can possibly compete. How are they even allowed to do this? I mean its not like they are some cash strapped competitor with no market share looking to get an edge. They are a convicted monopolist who somehow continues to walk between the raindrops and "get away with murder" right out in the open!
Yes in a ideal world it should be, but post HS education is all about money period. The fact that people get an education is just a byproduct of a business transaction.
"Anyhow, it seems to me a horrible idea to set this sort of prescident"
How about the deals college make with Credit Card and Long distance companies? You do know there are kickbacks for those little booths setup on campus? You also do know that most students get in way over their head in debt and that colleges and the CC companies know the parents will bail them out? Tell me that's not wrong. Did you also know colleges are scrambling to recover costs because students are bypassing the schools highly profitable phone service by using their cell phones. Bet you didn't know that most colleges either in the phone company business or get kickbacks from the local phone company. I am not even going to go into the deals which decide which textbooks you get and how much you will pay(get raped) for them.
"Higher Ed" sold its soul for money long ago.
BTW I also happen to be more than a little bitter about the spiraling cost of education. All I can say is support your local community college.
Linux for the most part became easier to install then windows with Corel linux years ago. That is like 5% of the end user experience when talking about OS's. Its after the install which is really the only part that matters.
BTW he's lucky he didn't have a Orinoco wireless NIC because with RH 7.3 it can be a real PITA. That alone would have put a damper on his "review". Don't get me wrong I'm a longtime Redhat booster, but it just goes to show how subjective a review on "OS installs" can get depending on hardware.
I am being serious. I am so annoyed and upset by all of this that I am stopping here and not reading anymore comments. The generational and technological gap between those of us who understand what is happening and those in power has grown too large. I've fought the good fight for too long and don't know if I have the willpower to even bother fighting anymore.
that every channel now has 1/10 of the screen taken up by their stupid corporate logo? My favorite is TNN. I love watching a compressed version of the movie while useless shit constantly scrolls along the bottom and distracts me from the show. Just how long is it going be the "new TNN" anyway? That dam logo has said that for like 3 years now.
Yes its a dumb title, but this is a great piece of software. I'm pretty dam jaded when it comes to browser addon's but this local proxy stops popups, protects your privacy, stop flash ads, blocks banners, etc etc. IMHO there are no solutions which even remotely compare to it in the number of features it has. Moz as much as I love it doesn't even compare no matter how much you hack up user.js. Plus it works with ANY browser because of course who wants to be stuck with only one browser that can stop popups?
Anyway if you use windows on your desktop your really missing out if you don't use Proxomitron. Oh yea, it free as well.
This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Unfortunatly those items are pretty much a wishlist and I don't think they will ever happen. All MS has to do is claim "security" and the DOJ will be forced to roll over for "national security concerns". You also forgot to mention open the MS Office file formats.
IMHO this trial has been a waste and no real change will come from it. The only thing that will break MS's monopoly is when the compter Desktop dies. That is at least 10 years away, so lets hope some of the other handheld/phone/PDA/appliance makers get their shit together. Then again with $40 billion in their coffers, it will be tough to keep MS from competing in any new market.
You know, originally I was against a physical breakup of MS, but now I think they should be broken up into 4 different companies. A desktop/app , a server,a handheld, and an internet company. Maybe that is the only way we can restore fair competition?
If you really have that much of a problem with RedHat then don't resell it. It's simple as that. Whining on you website about it is not only immature but unprofessional as well.
1-800-97-Legal. Its the number for Jacoby & Meyers because your going to need them after your arrested for "leaving a little back door".
For anyone else thinking about doing this, don't be stupid and please use a little common sense. If you do something like this and get caught you will not only pay a huge fine like $10-25k minimum, but could easily end up in jail.
Its not about it being "threat" its about a good free product that can replace Office for 99% of Mac users. Feature wise it compares very well, and eveyone I know who has tried it has been impressed with this free program. Apple's market share is home users, schools, and artists. It is NOT Fortune 500 companies where Exchange is mandatory. You say how Appleworks is enough for you well guess what, your just like the rest of Apple's users. Have you noticed how poor Office X sales are? OpenOffice is a great substitute for MS Office for Mac users.
Is that if Apple bundled OpenOffice with OSX. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't. This would make OSX even more compelling. It would also allow Apple to tell MS to shove that carrot they dangle over Apple where the sun don't shine. They are already overcharging their customers already, why not charge $10 more per machine to cover tech support costs for OpenOffice. They by this fall with Redhat and Apple including OpenOffice we would actually start to see some market share. If we are ever going to get out from under MS's thumb we have to start somewhere. Next is to port Evolution to windows, and Mac and get a free exchange plugin going.
Cheap and unwilling to waste thousands of dollars on something you don't need are two different things.
I like all other rational people am not going to throw out my perfectly good 7 year old 27" T.V.. No one I know does that. If 10 years from now when my T.V. finally dies the sets available in the $300-$400 range are HDTV then so be it, but I am not going to go out of my way to fix something which does not need fixing. This whole "we know what's good for you" philosophy about picture quality makes me want to puke.
FU HDTV and FU broadcasters. You can sell me an HDTV set the day after I install a $10,000 fiber optic lan with P4 2.53 machines running ATI 9700 cards in your house, because "you don't know what your missing" with you POS inferior 1GHz P3 and 15" monitor.
Slashdot Mirror
"I see no reason why, if Mandrake can do this, the others (E.g. Redhat and SuSe) can't"
You do realize where mandrake got their original code to even do this? Sound card detection has been like shooting fish in a barral for years now. The challenge comes with other hardware. At that point most people new to linux install it and pray for it to be setup.
In a few years Microsoft right or wrong, is set to drop all backwords compatibility. That means Office X Netscape X and all of your products will no longer work without new versions. Now those of us who have used NAV, Ghost, etc come to expect this from our System utilities. But for the first time MS is planning a complete break with all legacy products and code. Imagine the Mac OS X debute but without the Classic environment. Now imagine when MS takes is 90% desktop market share and does the same thing. Hopefully by then those fucktards in Washington won't have made Linux illegal and ISV's will actually be making software for it. Adobe and Intuit I'm looking at you.
Surprise! Most desktop power users who are already on a niche desktop OS prefer Mozilla over Netscape.
You know I just don't think its fair how much shit AOL/netscape get for contributing to the Mozilla project. You do remember who started this whole ball rolling? You do also realize who has paid people to work on this?
Oh so big deal they add a few aol icons to your desktop that you can instantly delete.
You know Moz may end up being the default browser for linux desktop OS's, but you got another thing coming if you think that the few remaining corporations or "grandma's" out there that use Netscape are going to migrate to Mozilla over Netscape. Do you think ISP's are going to start bundling Moz over Netscape? Really think about the fact that Mozilla is about technology, while Netscape is about a supported end user project. That is the goal of the Mozilla project, to put out great technology, not to replace Netscape.
Personally I think the Netscape 7 "package" finally represents a realthreat to MS. With the new DOJ rules, Netscape/AOL can finally have a real chance at getting some OEM's to not use IE, Outlook, and messenger and WMP. They can just drop in their own products and the end user won't miss a step, since it will be preloaded.
So you all you naysayers, I say your picking the wrong fight.
"1.1 is still a very immature version, compared to the Internet Explorer family of technologies, which is currently in version 6.x and still being improved daily"
No problem Netscape 7 is coming out and then we will have a version 7.x to trump your 6.x
"When will Mozilla feature speedier web browsing, and better integration with best-of-breed Microsoft products such as MSN messenger and Outlook XP"
Well it already is faster at rendering pages then IE. Especially its faster than IE for Linux. Ooops I forgot you don't make a product for linux. When is that coming out again? Regarding integration with Microsoft products, feel free, they are your virus magnets, I mean products after all.
"A theme that more closely matches the award winning Windows look-and-feel would also be helpful."
Hehe now its award wining huh? Well I guess Apple would be proud of you for stealing their ideas. If you really need the "IE" look and feel, just download the IE theme from Mozdev.org.
1998 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft?
1991 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft?
2000 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft?
2001 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft?
2002 Is Redhat becoming like Microsoft?
How many times can you ask the same stupid question and how many more years can you be wrong?
Redhat continues to put out GPL software year after year and like it or not is the poster child for linux. Which commercial linux vendor from back in the day would you have rather have won out? Suse, Caldera, Turbolinux?
Redhat does not have a monopoly on linux and never will. It's just not possible. Now maybe they will be the leading commercial linux in the corporate world, but dam it they have earned it.
I know I like many other long time linux users have always wanted linux to make it big. World domination was always the joke, but really there is a bit truth in there. Why oh why did anyone think that all 450 linux distros would equally share in the fruits of commercial linux's success?
Yea I just downloaded it last week and I'm really impressed. Things you can do with it off the top of my head.
Emergency disk repair via a nice gui!
Network scanning via nmap and ethereal. How cool is it to be able to plug into a compromised network and scan it without worrying about your system.
Ssh and vnc for admin without having to install it on your machine. This is great if you only have access to windows machine and don't want to have to download/install and software.
Secure web surfing. Want to check your email or do something else online that won't leave cookies etc on the local machine?
Great way to demo for people new to linux and let them learn linux without fear of them destroying their machine. This really would work great in a classroom setting and sure as hell beats having to reghost the machines every day.
You get a usuable full featured linux system on any machine with a cdrom. It really is very usuable as a desktop on any half decent machine. The only time it felt slow was when launching Open Office. Every other app launched faster than I though it would.
I know its not a new concept and others are available but its the best I've used so far,and should go in any admin's toolkit.
Those of us who test nightly builds are now not able to access the mozdev projects.
Slashdot really needs to start hosting its own mirrors for stories.
I think your rant is a bit misplaced. MS's PEAP is an effort to create a standard to go with MS's future HOME wireless products. Its not an effort to destroy existing EAPTTLS vendors like Funk et al, nor is it an effort to ensure linux clients can't participate in secure networks. How many linux users do you know that will be buying MS's home wireless kits?
e ployment/wireless/default.asp
Regarding EAPTLS and certificates, it actually works very well and is completely Free if you using Win2k and XP clients as opposed to the expensive software that does EAPTTLS. A PKI that is setup to serve wireless clients in a corporate environment is not hard for any decent windows admin to setup. All you have to do is buy 802.1x hardware like the excellant Orinoco products and in under 2 hours you have a full 802.1x network with rotating keys and Mutual authentication. I have this set up at home and its awesome. You can read about how to set it up here. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/techinfo/d
For those of you without a 2k AD domain, you can emulate this with opensoure software by using FreeRadius which now supports 802.1x http://www.freeradius.org/ Also for more opensource goodness please visit http://www.open1x.org/
On tip for those of you interested in 802.1x is to buy a Orinoco RG1000 an excellent AP in its own right and flash it with the AP-500 firmware. That way you get a 802.1x Wireless AP for ~$100.
In conclusion if you still reading realize that while MS is bad(very bad) this is not an effort to lock linux out or wireless security.
Sorry but I have a few problems here.
"Well instead of discussing the usability problems of KDE and the huge installation issues"
What huge installation issues? I've always just followed the direction for my distro and not have any problems. I seem to recall looking at how many packages I had to download to upgrade Gnome not long ago and thinking how happy I was that KDE required like 1/5 as many packages. Every reviewer out their that I have seen has said that one of the few things that makes the transition from Windows to Linux a bit easier is the user friendliness of KDE.
"They have only themselves to blame for there lack of success."
Again what is the basis for this statement? The fact that KDE is the most widely used Linux gui that pretty much every distro has standardized on it? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
So the sound quality is good?? How about if you want to play Quake or something else, don't you get laggy performance?
It wouldn't surprise me and goes in line with their current effort of "advising" the government on how linux is evil. Remember Corel dropping linux? Yes the linux desktop was a tough market, but really there is no doubt it was a quid pro quo transaction.
Also what's with MS giving its software away for Free to a different government every week? Its a clear pattern designed to make sure noone can possibly compete. How are they even allowed to do this? I mean its not like they are some cash strapped competitor with no market share looking to get an edge. They are a convicted monopolist who somehow continues to walk between the raindrops and "get away with murder" right out in the open!
"Universities should be about education,"
Yes in a ideal world it should be, but post HS education is all about money period. The fact that people get an education is just a byproduct of a business transaction.
"Anyhow, it seems to me a horrible idea to set this sort of prescident"
How about the deals college make with Credit Card and Long distance companies? You do know there are kickbacks for those little booths setup on campus? You also do know that most students get in way over their head in debt and that colleges and the CC companies know the parents will bail them out? Tell me that's not wrong. Did you also know colleges are scrambling to recover costs because students are bypassing the schools highly profitable phone service by using their cell phones. Bet you didn't know that most colleges either in the phone company business or get kickbacks from the local phone company. I am not even going to go into the deals which decide which textbooks you get and how much you will pay(get raped) for them.
"Higher Ed" sold its soul for money long ago.
BTW I also happen to be more than a little bitter about the spiraling cost of education. All I can say is support your local community college.
I'm thinking he just glanced and thought that was MS SQL server so he took a dig at it. Of course the mods made the same mistake and modded him up.
Linux for the most part became easier to install then windows with Corel linux years ago. That is like 5% of the end user experience when talking about OS's. Its after the install which is really the only part that matters.
BTW he's lucky he didn't have a Orinoco wireless NIC because with RH 7.3 it can be a real PITA. That alone would have put a damper on his "review". Don't get me wrong I'm a longtime Redhat booster, but it just goes to show how subjective a review on "OS installs" can get depending on hardware.
I am being serious. I am so annoyed and upset by all of this that I am stopping here and not reading anymore comments. The generational and technological gap between those of us who understand what is happening and those in power has grown too large. I've fought the good fight for too long and don't know if I have the willpower to even bother fighting anymore.
that every channel now has 1/10 of the screen taken up by their stupid corporate logo? My favorite is TNN. I love watching a compressed version of the movie while useless shit constantly scrolls along the bottom and distracts me from the show. Just how long is it going be the "new TNN" anyway? That dam logo has said that for like 3 years now.
Yes its a dumb title, but this is a great piece of software. I'm pretty dam jaded when it comes to browser addon's but this local proxy stops popups, protects your privacy, stop flash ads, blocks banners, etc etc. IMHO there are no solutions which even remotely compare to it in the number of features it has. Moz as much as I love it doesn't even compare no matter how much you hack up user.js. Plus it works with ANY browser because of course who wants to be stuck with only one browser that can stop popups?
Anyway if you use windows on your desktop your really missing out if you don't use Proxomitron. Oh yea, it free as well.
This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Unfortunatly those items are pretty much a wishlist and I don't think they will ever happen. All MS has to do is claim "security" and the DOJ will be forced to roll over for "national security concerns". You also forgot to mention open the MS Office file formats.
IMHO this trial has been a waste and no real change will come from it. The only thing that will break MS's monopoly is when the compter Desktop dies. That is at least 10 years away, so lets hope some of the other handheld/phone/PDA/appliance makers get their shit together. Then again with $40 billion in their coffers, it will be tough to keep MS from competing in any new market.
You know, originally I was against a physical breakup of MS, but now I think they should be broken up into 4 different companies. A desktop/app , a server,a handheld, and an internet company. Maybe that is the only way we can restore fair competition?
I read through this whole page and there is not one link to a soundbite of Kirk yelling Khaaaaannnnnn.
For shame. http://www.stinsv.com/MOv/St2/khankhan.wav
If you really have that much of a problem with RedHat then don't resell it. It's simple as that. Whining on you website about it is not only immature but unprofessional as well.
Too bad half of the games crash on startup. Were these designed for win95 or something?
1-800-97-Legal. Its the number for Jacoby & Meyers because your going to need them after your arrested for "leaving a little back door".
For anyone else thinking about doing this, don't be stupid and please use a little common sense. If you do something like this and get caught you will not only pay a huge fine like $10-25k minimum, but could easily end up in jail.
Its not about it being "threat" its about a good free product that can replace Office for 99% of Mac users. Feature wise it compares very well, and eveyone I know who has tried it has been impressed with this free program. Apple's market share is home users, schools, and artists. It is NOT Fortune 500 companies where Exchange is mandatory. You say how Appleworks is enough for you well guess what, your just like the rest of Apple's users. Have you noticed how poor Office X sales are?
OpenOffice is a great substitute for MS Office for Mac users.
Is that if Apple bundled OpenOffice with OSX. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't. This would make OSX even more compelling. It would also allow Apple to tell MS to shove that carrot they dangle over Apple where the sun don't shine. They are already overcharging their customers already, why not charge $10 more per machine to cover tech support costs for OpenOffice. They by this fall with Redhat and Apple including OpenOffice we would actually start to see some market share. If we are ever going to get out from under MS's thumb we have to start somewhere. Next is to port Evolution to windows, and Mac and get a free exchange plugin going.
"Americans are cheap bastards"
Cheap and unwilling to waste thousands of dollars on something you don't need are two different things.
I like all other rational people am not going to throw out my perfectly good 7 year old 27" T.V.. No one I know does that. If 10 years from now when my T.V. finally dies the sets available in the $300-$400 range are HDTV then so be it, but I am not going to go out of my way to fix something which does not need fixing. This whole "we know what's good for you" philosophy about picture quality makes me want to puke.
FU HDTV and FU broadcasters. You can sell me an HDTV set the day after I install a $10,000 fiber optic lan with P4 2.53 machines running ATI 9700 cards in your house, because "you don't know what your missing" with you POS inferior 1GHz P3 and 15" monitor.