I think the issue isn't morality, per se. It's more along the lines of: nobody is willing to put in any 'work' to get things. People don't take satisfaction at an accomplishment, even if it is just a game.
I mean, it's supposed to be entertainment, for crying out loud. If you have to cheat to be entertained, what does that say about you? It reminds me of playing Dinosaur Hunter: Turok several years back -- most of my friends were complaining about how hard the game was; that it was impossible to finish. I didn't have an N64 or the game, but I swore that I could finish it in a week on the hardest difficulty, without any help. So I borrowed an N64 and a friend's copy, and did just that. It was quite a satisfying feeling. Then, one of the friends who'd given up on the game started on one of my saves, turned on several of the cheat codes I'd unlocked, and beat it himself. To be honest, I found it more than a little annoying -- kind of like carrying someone piggy-back up a mountain, only to have them hop off at the top and plant their own flag next to yours.
Nobody thinks about the 'journey' anymore -- it's all about the destination. The quick payoff. The feeling of getting something for little work, and the superior feeling over those who *have* to work for what they get. I think that's what they're getting at. And I don't think that anyone can argue that these days, most people want immediate gratification and have little respect for hard work.
Skies of Arcadia is hardly original. I just finished it last Thursday, and definitely enjoyed it, but it wasn't at all original.
All throughout the game I kept thinking to myself, "I can't believe how much this reminds me of Final Fantasy 2, 3, and 7, all mixed together."
The story: Collecting Crystals that are being stolen by an evil empire, but it turns out that the evil empire is actually just being manipulated by an uber-evil bad guy. Many other parallels (travel to moon in special ship/travel to very high place in special ship, etc.) ALL reminded me of FF2.
The party collecting aspect, while far more limited, reminded me of FF3. You round up a big posse and cruise around in your airship.
The special attacks were a lot like the limit breaks in FF7, except they were *much* easier/faster to pull off.
Sure, they sky pirate motif was somewhat original. But beyond that, the game was almost entirely derivative of games before it.
That said, I still enjoyed it, and my girlfriend kept wanting me to play so that she could see what happened next (always a bonus), but it wasn't original.
Correction: Ikaruga isn't a shooter. It's a puzzle game masquerading as a shooter.
What color should I be? When should I switch? Which enemies should I kill to get the best/easiest chains? Where should I stay on the screen to be safe?
I think it's an awesome game, but I honestly believe that it's more of a puzzle game than a shooter.
Mischief Makers was a great game. Some magazine (EGM, I think, but don't remember) reviewed it as, basically, "you're a maid with a vacuum cleaner. Oh boy." From that point forward, I've put absolutely no stock in what a reviewer says about a game.
Then your parents are idiots, or are drunk or stoned themselves. Either that, or they're typical bad parents.
It takes about 3 seconds to look at someone's eyes and tell if they're drunk, and even less time to smell their breath (if you were smart enough to cover up the external scent of alcohol.)
If you think that building bombs is somehow more obvious than drugs, you're naive. I was 17 less than a decade ago, and I was never foolish enough to believe that my parents wouldn't be able to detect drug or alcohol use.
Oh, and don't confuse drinking and drug use with a social life. They aren't the same thing, even *if* other people are involved.
In addition to all the things people have already pointed out -- none of the recent Zeldas 'punish' you if you *are* incompetent enough to not be able to control Link. In Wind Waker, if you fall to your 'death,' you lose half a heart and start again at the last door you came through.
And what 'curvy, narrow bridge over lava puzzles' are you talking about? I don't seem to recall any in a Zelda game. Maybe I just didn't have enough trouble with 'em to make them memorable.
Gazing into the near-future crystal ball also shows F-Zero GX, Viewtiful Joe, Star Fox, and a whole ton of others that fall in the cross-platform genre that I won't list.
I would point out that the 'Cube port of SC2 will have Link as a playable character, whereas the XBox will merely have some uninteresting 'dark/edgy' character whose name I've forgotten to appease the angsty teenagers.
merely that it could not have been done on the Dreamcast without losing something.
I'm not interested in defending console X here from someone saying that 'Y can't be done on it.' What I am interested in, though, is what makes you qualified to offer that assessment of the Dreamcast's abilities? Do I have any reason to believe that you're not merely spouting conjecture off the top of your head?
Hmm... In Super Mario Brothers, you run, jump and shoot fireballs. In Contra, you run, jump, and shoot guns. In Zelda 2, you run, jump, and shoot (sort of) your sword (when you're at full health).
I guess that means we can lump them all into the same category.
Also, by the same argument, a Semi has wheels and a motor, and so does a Geo Metro, so they must be the same thing.
It doesn't take a genius to notice that there are, perhaps, subtle differences that make them worthy of distinction from each other.
There are a ton of others that are good games, but not system sellers IMO. (Sega's Soccer Slam, Bomberman Generations, Rogue Squadron 2, Wave Race, Luigi's Mansion).
Anyone who thinks there aren't enough must-haves for the Gamecube hasn't looked.
--Jeremy
Re:Mod Parent Up
on
Assembly '03
·
· Score: 0, Troll
I think that actually Panic did it first. Only about what, a 6 month timespan between the two, tho'? Future Crew was my geek equivalent of 'favorite band' back in the day...
I don't know why everyone is beating up on Nintendo for producing quality that nobody else seems to be able to match.
Easy -- if you trash Nintendo, you 'justify' your support of whatever other console you've got. The psychology of fanboy-ism is pretty simple.
All I do is try to point out all the good games I've got for the 'Cube, and encourage other people to pick them up. If they don't, oh well. That's not going to stop me from enjoying 'em. Of course, at the same time, it'd be great to see an awesome title like Eternal Darkness get sales like that bore-fest Splinter Cell.
Have Nintendo fanboys stooped to outright lying to justify their devotion?
Zelda, Smash Brothers, Metroid, Eternal Darkness. Those're all the justification I need.
I'll be happy when Nintendo has clearly slipped into the #3 spot, still happily producing good games. That way, I won't have to listen to XBox fanboys pound their chests about how well their console is selling. Of course, it probably won't happen for a while... meaning I'll get to continue to listen to idiotic arguments from people trying to justify their devotion to Microsoft's marketing division -- err, XBox.
The other reason that PS2 gains on PC is lower costs. PC games still suffer from double packaging, and heavy promotional packaging considerations.
Of course, this is completely offset by the fact that there are no licensing fees to publish PC games. PS2 developers have to pay royalties to Sony, which likely far outweigh any packaging costs.
Agreed -- the 'game view' is too small. It's kind of disappointing that once you get strong enough, you can blast everything before it even makes it on screen... but still a good game nonetheless.
(Also -- in response to a different post) I found the link on PA, too. First banner ad that's ever worked on me.:)
I just stumbled onto Starscape by Moonpod, an indie developer, and am extremely impressed by it. It's only the 2nd piece of software that I've ever bought online (the first being Kali).
It's sort of an evolution of Raptor by Apogee -- have ship, buy upgrades -- but adds research for better upgrades and a lot of exploration. And the game just oozes style and polish. Highly recommended.
Nice receiver. I just picked up a 2803 a few weeks ago... just couldn't justify the money for a 3803. The 2803 is already powerful enough to blow up the speakers I have, and the other features weren't quite enough incentive to go up one higher.
No, they're still around... They just sell kinda low- to mid-range stuff through stores like Wal Mart.
It'd be kinda pointless for them to try to influence these standards, since their customers aren't the ones that really care about A/V equipment -- they just want a big TV that works. The A/V enthusiasts are the ones who will drive adoption of standards like this.
I was sort of surprised that there weren't any names like Denon, Onkyo or Harmon Kardon on that list -- it'd be awesome if you could use your home theater receiver to seamlessly drive all of your other components.
Ok, your gripes with commercial notation software using the industry-wide, open, accepted MIDI standard: isn't this Slashdot? Isn't everyone supposed to be an open-standards advocate?
Your gripes about developers having to 'use DirectX or your midi interface will not work:' there's MCI (IIRC - Media Control Interface, I believe) -- it works fine.
Your absolutely clueless rant about DirectX in general: Uh... whaaaa? Replacement algorithm that directly generates wave at the processor level? What the hell does that mean? You mean, the processor generates a wave, and then sends it to the sound card using DirectSound or the wave mapper? Your friend sounds pretty brilliant.
DirectX sucks for security and flexability... because of its fork processes? What do fork processes have to do with *anything*? Did you know that Apache forks a process for every web page it processes? Does that make Apache insecure and inflexible? Besides, DirectX *doesn't* fork processes, it does 'fork' threads, though.
My biggest gripe: how does incoherent, uninformed babbling like this get modded up to +5 interesting? Do moderators find it interesting that people spout off with no clues about what they're saying? The worst part is, people will read it and think it's *true*, and then use this guy's 'processor level wave' and 'DirectX forking processes' as another excuse to bash MS or whatever.
Damn... If you're gonna bitch, at least have a clue about what you're bitching about.
Slashdot Mirror
dancing(that is very physically demanding, so it would make good singing impossible anyways)
Tell that to broadway performers.
--Jeremy
I think the issue isn't morality, per se. It's more along the lines of: nobody is willing to put in any 'work' to get things. People don't take satisfaction at an accomplishment, even if it is just a game.
I mean, it's supposed to be entertainment, for crying out loud. If you have to cheat to be entertained, what does that say about you? It reminds me of playing Dinosaur Hunter: Turok several years back -- most of my friends were complaining about how hard the game was; that it was impossible to finish. I didn't have an N64 or the game, but I swore that I could finish it in a week on the hardest difficulty, without any help. So I borrowed an N64 and a friend's copy, and did just that. It was quite a satisfying feeling. Then, one of the friends who'd given up on the game started on one of my saves, turned on several of the cheat codes I'd unlocked, and beat it himself. To be honest, I found it more than a little annoying -- kind of like carrying someone piggy-back up a mountain, only to have them hop off at the top and plant their own flag next to yours.
Nobody thinks about the 'journey' anymore -- it's all about the destination. The quick payoff. The feeling of getting something for little work, and the superior feeling over those who *have* to work for what they get. I think that's what they're getting at. And I don't think that anyone can argue that these days, most people want immediate gratification and have little respect for hard work.
--Jeremy
Skies of Arcadia is hardly original. I just finished it last Thursday, and definitely enjoyed it, but it wasn't at all original.
All throughout the game I kept thinking to myself, "I can't believe how much this reminds me of Final Fantasy 2, 3, and 7, all mixed together."
The story: Collecting Crystals that are being stolen by an evil empire, but it turns out that the evil empire is actually just being manipulated by an uber-evil bad guy. Many other parallels (travel to moon in special ship/travel to very high place in special ship, etc.) ALL reminded me of FF2.
The party collecting aspect, while far more limited, reminded me of FF3. You round up a big posse and cruise around in your airship.
The special attacks were a lot like the limit breaks in FF7, except they were *much* easier/faster to pull off.
Sure, they sky pirate motif was somewhat original. But beyond that, the game was almost entirely derivative of games before it.
That said, I still enjoyed it, and my girlfriend kept wanting me to play so that she could see what happened next (always a bonus), but it wasn't original.
--Jeremy
Correction: Ikaruga isn't a shooter. It's a puzzle game masquerading as a shooter.
What color should I be? When should I switch? Which enemies should I kill to get the best/easiest chains? Where should I stay on the screen to be safe?
I think it's an awesome game, but I honestly believe that it's more of a puzzle game than a shooter.
--Jeremy
Mischief Makers was a great game. Some magazine (EGM, I think, but don't remember) reviewed it as, basically, "you're a maid with a vacuum cleaner. Oh boy." From that point forward, I've put absolutely no stock in what a reviewer says about a game.
--Jeremy
Then your parents are idiots, or are drunk or stoned themselves. Either that, or they're typical bad parents.
It takes about 3 seconds to look at someone's eyes and tell if they're drunk, and even less time to smell their breath (if you were smart enough to cover up the external scent of alcohol.)
If you think that building bombs is somehow more obvious than drugs, you're naive. I was 17 less than a decade ago, and I was never foolish enough to believe that my parents wouldn't be able to detect drug or alcohol use.
Oh, and don't confuse drinking and drug use with a social life. They aren't the same thing, even *if* other people are involved.
--Jeremy
In addition to all the things people have already pointed out -- none of the recent Zeldas 'punish' you if you *are* incompetent enough to not be able to control Link. In Wind Waker, if you fall to your 'death,' you lose half a heart and start again at the last door you came through.
And what 'curvy, narrow bridge over lava puzzles' are you talking about? I don't seem to recall any in a Zelda game. Maybe I just didn't have enough trouble with 'em to make them memorable.
--Jeremy
Nope. Clerks animated series.
--Jeremy
And look at what happened to the video game industry last time it was controlled by large mega-corporations that didn't give a damn about quality.
--Jeremy
Gazing into the near-future crystal ball also shows F-Zero GX, Viewtiful Joe, Star Fox, and a whole ton of others that fall in the cross-platform genre that I won't list.
I would point out that the 'Cube port of SC2 will have Link as a playable character, whereas the XBox will merely have some uninteresting 'dark/edgy' character whose name I've forgotten to appease the angsty teenagers.
--Jeremy
merely that it could not have been done on the Dreamcast without losing something.
I'm not interested in defending console X here from someone saying that 'Y can't be done on it.' What I am interested in, though, is what makes you qualified to offer that assessment of the Dreamcast's abilities? Do I have any reason to believe that you're not merely spouting conjecture off the top of your head?
--Jeremy
Hmm ... In Super Mario Brothers, you run, jump and shoot fireballs. In Contra, you run, jump, and shoot guns. In Zelda 2, you run, jump, and shoot (sort of) your sword (when you're at full health).
I guess that means we can lump them all into the same category.
Also, by the same argument, a Semi has wheels and a motor, and so does a Geo Metro, so they must be the same thing.
It doesn't take a genius to notice that there are, perhaps, subtle differences that make them worthy of distinction from each other.
--Jeremy
Add to that list:
Eternal Darkness
Pikmin
RE0/1
Viewtiful Joe
There are a ton of others that are good games, but not system sellers IMO. (Sega's Soccer Slam, Bomberman Generations, Rogue Squadron 2, Wave Race, Luigi's Mansion).
Anyone who thinks there aren't enough must-haves for the Gamecube hasn't looked.
--Jeremy
I think that actually Panic did it first. Only about what, a 6 month timespan between the two, tho'? Future Crew was my geek equivalent of 'favorite band' back in the day...
--Jeremy
I don't know why everyone is beating up on Nintendo for producing quality that nobody else seems to be able to match.
Easy -- if you trash Nintendo, you 'justify' your support of whatever other console you've got. The psychology of fanboy-ism is pretty simple.
All I do is try to point out all the good games I've got for the 'Cube, and encourage other people to pick them up. If they don't, oh well. That's not going to stop me from enjoying 'em. Of course, at the same time, it'd be great to see an awesome title like Eternal Darkness get sales like that bore-fest Splinter Cell.
--Jeremy
Get Eternal Darkness. It's less than $15 brand new at IGN's game store. It's worth every penny of $50, IMO, so $15 is a steal.
... meh. To each his own.
And I disagree with your comment about Zelda: Wind Waker, but
--Jeremy
Sony sold 30 million PS2s between April and June? Wow -- what's that bring their total to? Eleventy bajillion?
Reading the article is helpful. Understanding what you're reading is even more helpful.
--Jeremy
Have Nintendo fanboys stooped to outright lying to justify their devotion?
... meaning I'll get to continue to listen to idiotic arguments from people trying to justify their devotion to Microsoft's marketing division -- err, XBox.
Zelda, Smash Brothers, Metroid, Eternal Darkness. Those're all the justification I need.
I'll be happy when Nintendo has clearly slipped into the #3 spot, still happily producing good games. That way, I won't have to listen to XBox fanboys pound their chests about how well their console is selling. Of course, it probably won't happen for a while
--Jeremy
The other reason that PS2 gains on PC is lower costs. PC games still suffer from double packaging, and heavy promotional packaging considerations.
Of course, this is completely offset by the fact that there are no licensing fees to publish PC games. PS2 developers have to pay royalties to Sony, which likely far outweigh any packaging costs.
--Jeremy
Agreed -- the 'game view' is too small. It's kind of disappointing that once you get strong enough, you can blast everything before it even makes it on screen ... but still a good game nonetheless.
:)
(Also -- in response to a different post) I found the link on PA, too. First banner ad that's ever worked on me.
--Jeremy
I just stumbled onto Starscape by Moonpod, an indie developer, and am extremely impressed by it. It's only the 2nd piece of software that I've ever bought online (the first being Kali).
It's sort of an evolution of Raptor by Apogee -- have ship, buy upgrades -- but adds research for better upgrades and a lot of exploration. And the game just oozes style and polish. Highly recommended.
--Jeremy
Off-topic, but...
:)
Nice receiver. I just picked up a 2803 a few weeks ago... just couldn't justify the money for a 3803. The 2803 is already powerful enough to blow up the speakers I have, and the other features weren't quite enough incentive to go up one higher.
Of course, I wouldn't complain if I had one.
--Jeremy
No, they're still around... They just sell kinda low- to mid-range stuff through stores like Wal Mart.
It'd be kinda pointless for them to try to influence these standards, since their customers aren't the ones that really care about A/V equipment -- they just want a big TV that works. The A/V enthusiasts are the ones who will drive adoption of standards like this.
I was sort of surprised that there weren't any names like Denon, Onkyo or Harmon Kardon on that list -- it'd be awesome if you could use your home theater receiver to seamlessly drive all of your other components.
--Jeremy
Ok, your gripes with commercial notation software using the industry-wide, open, accepted MIDI standard: isn't this Slashdot? Isn't everyone supposed to be an open-standards advocate?
... whaaaa? Replacement algorithm that directly generates wave at the processor level? What the hell does that mean? You mean, the processor generates a wave, and then sends it to the sound card using DirectSound or the wave mapper? Your friend sounds pretty brilliant.
... because of its fork processes? What do fork processes have to do with *anything*? Did you know that Apache forks a process for every web page it processes? Does that make Apache insecure and inflexible? Besides, DirectX *doesn't* fork processes, it does 'fork' threads, though.
... If you're gonna bitch, at least have a clue about what you're bitching about.
Your gripes about developers having to 'use DirectX or your midi interface will not work:' there's MCI (IIRC - Media Control Interface, I believe) -- it works fine.
Your absolutely clueless rant about DirectX in general: Uh
DirectX sucks for security and flexability
My biggest gripe: how does incoherent, uninformed babbling like this get modded up to +5 interesting? Do moderators find it interesting that people spout off with no clues about what they're saying? The worst part is, people will read it and think it's *true*, and then use this guy's 'processor level wave' and 'DirectX forking processes' as another excuse to bash MS or whatever.
Damn
--Jeremy
and just the basic plot make me really want this game
:)
I hadn't heard anything about the plot -- have they finally moved beyond the "Somethin' friggin' evil's comin' outta the teleporter!" bit?
--Jeremy