Let the mass market think what they want -- I'll buy it if it's new and interesting, and I could care less if someone else passes it over for something more familiar.
Of course, that wouldn't be good for Id, which is the real problem: game producers can't innovate too much, because people don't really want innovation. They want to play an updated version of that fun game they played last time.
Ahh yes, because the stockholders don't have the foresight to look into next quarter, let alone next year.
The stockholders' demands of 'money now, Now, NOW!' is a large part of what's wrong with business in the US these days -- Nobody wants to wait for a long term big payoff when they can have a tiny short term game right now.
(not to disagree with you, Mike, because you hit the nail right on the head. But it's still really annoying that today's businessmen have no sense of the 'long haul')
Agreed. I find it utterly depressing that games like that sell so well.
Ultimately, you end up with a large number of people that think "hey, this is what a game is *supposed* to be like," and start a downward spiral of expectations and quality. (Hollywood, anyone?)
I have yet to see a single tube or projection based television/monitor offering DVI input.
You haven't looked. The Toshiba 34HDX82 I just picked up has one. Sony's latest widescreen Wega also has them. Pretty much all of this year's widescreen HDTV models that I looked at a month ago had them.
I have always hated the term 'mob.' I mean, how exciting is it to go out and fight movable objects? Oh boy, let me at 'em.
I mean, I can handle non-roleplayers. It doesn't bother me that much (of course, I haven't played an MMORPG in about 3 years now). But the second my party started fighting 'mobs' instead of orcs, gnolls, kobolds, or whatever, it completely ruined any immersion I felt.
Even worse, is that way back (if memory serves, it was before the 'Cube and XBox even came out), Tecmo had a poll about "What system would you like to see the new Ninja Gaiden on?"
The Gamecube ran away with the votes. PS2 had about 1/2 as many, followed by the GBA. The XBox had roughly 1% of the votes.
Gee, Tecmo, thanks for respecting your fans' opinions after taking the trouble to *ask*.
Likewise, how can you defend the GC's smaller library, which also has less variety?
Care to back up this statement? The Gamecube has over 200 games out for it. The only genre that it really lacks is RPGs, and -- oops! the XBox doesn't have many of those either.
If you count the Gameboy Player, the 'Cube can play over 1500 games.
but it seems stupid to complain about how terrible a console is that many people seriously do enjoy, with sales numbers to prove it.
Likewise, it seems stupid to complain about how talentless Britney Spears is, since many people enjoy the music she performs, and the RIAA has sales numbers to prove it.
Bah. It was reviews that convinced me to buy Harry Potter 2 for my girlfriend, and Splinter Cell for myself. It was reviews that told me *not* to buy Wario World. Increasingly, reviews have become pretty useless.
Word of mouth is about all I rely on any more, and even then only from trusted sources.
Here's my typical PC gaming experience:
Sit at desk in front of nice 19" monitor.
Install game
Oops, leeched too many NewsRadio episodes off of Gnutella. Need to move some files between drives to free up space.
Get back to installing game
Patch game, because it doesn't work right out of box
Finally, sit and play in ultra-beautiful high resolution graphics with my pretty decent PC sound system.
Typical console gaming experience:
Sit in my comfy couch
Enable Pro-scan mode in game (if it supports it)
Turn on badass PLII surround system that makes my PC speakers sound like walkie-talkies
Enjoy latest must-have title (which have been lacking in the last couple months for my Gamecube... sigh... End of July should be good, though)
Personally, I'll take the console experience over the PC experience any day... Each have their merits, but to say that the PC offers a far superior gaming experience is just dumb. Maybe if you've got a $75 19" Wal-Mart special TV vs. a $1500-2000 gaming PC... but for anyone with a decent home theater setup, it's just no contest.
Plus, you can invite chicks over to watch movies on a home theater.
Maintaining a 'gaming capable PC' doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, it makes you a hardware nut. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's just a completely different thing.
If you want to be a hardcore gamer, just play lots of (read: variety) games. You don't have to have an uber-l337 gaming PC to be a hardcore gamer.
And besides, I'll take my 34" widescreen pro-scan TV and Denon AVR 2803-driven surround system from the comfort of my couch over my PC any day.
Nintendo has really fantastic first party games. And really, that and the game boy are about the only things keeping them afloat.
Umm, I'd just like to point out... duh? They make good products, and it keeps them afloat. Hell, not just afloat, but practially surfing their incredibly profitable niche.
The way you make that statement, it seems to imply that they should need something more to stay competitive. What else, exactly, do you want from them? Should they also have a slew of crappy games to round out their library?
And the distinction between Nintendo and Sega is this: Nintendo is profitable. Sega wasn't. Comparing the two is just stupid. If you want to compare Sega to somebody, compare them to 3DO. And in turn, compare Nintendo to Apple.
"Your honor, my client maintains that he has not stolen music, depending on what the definition of the word 'stolen' is."
(and FYI, I've officially boycotted the RIAA and MPAA. I'm not going to give someone my money so that they can turn around and treat me like a criminal.)
get rid of that awful Robert A. Heinlein (he encourages bloody revolutions and polygamy!) and J.D. Salinger (Catcher in the Rye? More like Catcher in the Sin) and William Shakespeare (Sex, murder, psychopaths).
While I do agree with your point, to liken these authors and their works to garbage such as DOA:X and the multitude of PSX games that simply allow players to act out adolescent fantasies is to do a great disservice to the authors you mentioned. Their works, despite the 'rough' presentation, have a message, and challenge the reader intellectually. The likes of BMX:XXX do no such thing.
Sure, it says that people mostly pirate games for the most popular systems. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It's not as if rampant piracy somehow contributed to the success of the Gameboy, PS1, or PS2.
And besides, I think you're a bit off on saying that the Gameboy has a high rate of piracy. Yeah, it is in the Asian/South American markets where you can buy bootleg carts. But in the states/Europe/Japan, most people don't buy bootlegs or have flash carts.
I dunno how many of these there'd be on the PS2, but there are lots of 4-player games on the 'Cube that let you play against 2 computer-controlled opponents. My SO and I generally go head-to-head against the computer players, so even though it's not a co-op game, per se, we can still cooperate and I don't have to just hand her ass to her over and over again.:)
Smash Bros: Melee and Super Monkey Ball 1/2 are particularly good for this.
On the other hand this could kill sales of the GameCube because of the piracy and the already small library of decent games for the system. I for one hope the first is true because I think the system has amazing potential.
Small library of 'decent' games? Amazing 'potential'?
Luigi's Mansion
Super Monkey Ball 1/2
Pikmin
Smash Brothers: Melee
Sonic Adventure
RE 1/0
Bomberman Generations
Eternal Darkness
Mario Sunshine
Animal Crossing
Metroid Prime
Zelda: Wind Waker
Skies of Arcadia
Those are just off the top of my head, and there are several I've left out intentionally because I didn't think they're as good as they were given credit for (Splinter Cell, Rogue Squadron, Star Fox Adventure, etc).
And no, it's not gonna kill sales. It's still too hard to pirate, even if ISOs are available. How many people have DVD burners? The mod chips that are necessary aren't even here yet.
Hell, it took pirates nearly 2 years after the 'Cube's launch to dump ISOs. That's pretty impressive to me.
And we all know that the letter of the law is 100% accurate.
DMCA, anyone?
To me, this whole argument is more about respect for other people's work. While I respect that Miyamoto and Warren Spector are great game designers, and I want to compensate them for their time by paying for their creations, there are others who just don't understand or care what goes into these things.
I can afford the games I want to play -- I pay for them. I never have to justify my actions to *anyone* or argue that piracy "isn't technically stealing," because I'm not doing anything wrong.
Let me make this as clear as possible to game hardware developers out there:
So long as your processor supports the jump assembly command, or your hardware uses standard CMOS/TTL voltages/IC's, your program/game can be hacked. I said 'can', because its all a matter of who wants to put the effort into it and not just the plain and simple fact that they can do it.
And now you're proposing a 'solution' to piracy? I came up with ways to start cracking your solution while I was reading it.
But that's completely besides the point, because you (and most other people) are missing the point of the kind of copy protection that Nintendo is going for here. Let me make this as clear as possible to you:
They want to stop casual piracy. Period. If you can discourage 90-99% of the population from trying to steal games, you've done your job. Personally, I think it sounds like a fairly discouraging process: going out looking for ISOs (a time-consuming process), then burning it to a mini-DVD, then modding your 'Cube to accept the mini-DVD.
It was much easier with the Dreamcast -- go get ISO, burn to CD, done. Not quite as easy with the Playstation: get mod chip, then burn a copy of any game. For the 'Cube, though, it's just not going to make much difference to most people. It's too much work. And that's all that matters to Nintendo.
I always love how people complain about all the cheats that they don't use. If they use a cheat/hack, then that particular one becomes OK for whatever reason they've created to justify it.
You'll never win an argument with these people or convert them. I find it best to ignore them and play with non 'power-gamers.'
Slashdot Mirror
Let the mass market think what they want -- I'll buy it if it's new and interesting, and I could care less if someone else passes it over for something more familiar.
Of course, that wouldn't be good for Id, which is the real problem: game producers can't innovate too much, because people don't really want innovation. They want to play an updated version of that fun game they played last time.
--Jeremy
Ahh yes, because the stockholders don't have the foresight to look into next quarter, let alone next year.
The stockholders' demands of 'money now, Now, NOW!' is a large part of what's wrong with business in the US these days -- Nobody wants to wait for a long term big payoff when they can have a tiny short term game right now.
(not to disagree with you, Mike, because you hit the nail right on the head. But it's still really annoying that today's businessmen have no sense of the 'long haul')
--Jeremy
Agreed. I find it utterly depressing that games like that sell so well.
Ultimately, you end up with a large number of people that think "hey, this is what a game is *supposed* to be like," and start a downward spiral of expectations and quality. (Hollywood, anyone?)
--Jeremy
I have yet to see a single tube or projection based television/monitor offering DVI input.
You haven't looked. The Toshiba 34HDX82 I just picked up has one. Sony's latest widescreen Wega also has them. Pretty much all of this year's widescreen HDTV models that I looked at a month ago had them.
--Jeremy
I have always hated the term 'mob.' I mean, how exciting is it to go out and fight movable objects? Oh boy, let me at 'em.
I mean, I can handle non-roleplayers. It doesn't bother me that much (of course, I haven't played an MMORPG in about 3 years now). But the second my party started fighting 'mobs' instead of orcs, gnolls, kobolds, or whatever, it completely ruined any immersion I felt.
--Jeremy
Even worse, is that way back (if memory serves, it was before the 'Cube and XBox even came out), Tecmo had a poll about "What system would you like to see the new Ninja Gaiden on?"
The Gamecube ran away with the votes. PS2 had about 1/2 as many, followed by the GBA. The XBox had roughly 1% of the votes.
Gee, Tecmo, thanks for respecting your fans' opinions after taking the trouble to *ask*.
--Jeremy
Likewise, how can you defend the GC's smaller library, which also has less variety?
Care to back up this statement? The Gamecube has over 200 games out for it. The only genre that it really lacks is RPGs, and -- oops! the XBox doesn't have many of those either.
If you count the Gameboy Player, the 'Cube can play over 1500 games.
but it seems stupid to complain about how terrible a console is that many people seriously do enjoy, with sales numbers to prove it.
Likewise, it seems stupid to complain about how talentless Britney Spears is, since many people enjoy the music she performs, and the RIAA has sales numbers to prove it.
--Jeremy
Read reviews or ask friends or something.
Bah. It was reviews that convinced me to buy Harry Potter 2 for my girlfriend, and Splinter Cell for myself. It was reviews that told me *not* to buy Wario World. Increasingly, reviews have become pretty useless.
Word of mouth is about all I rely on any more, and even then only from trusted sources.
--Jeremy
computers offer a far superior gaming experience
... sigh... End of July should be good, though)
... Each have their merits, but to say that the PC offers a far superior gaming experience is just dumb. Maybe if you've got a $75 19" Wal-Mart special TV vs. a $1500-2000 gaming PC ... but for anyone with a decent home theater setup, it's just no contest.
Here's my typical PC gaming experience:
Sit at desk in front of nice 19" monitor.
Install game
Oops, leeched too many NewsRadio episodes off of Gnutella. Need to move some files between drives to free up space.
Get back to installing game
Patch game, because it doesn't work right out of box
Finally, sit and play in ultra-beautiful high resolution graphics with my pretty decent PC sound system.
Typical console gaming experience:
Sit in my comfy couch
Enable Pro-scan mode in game (if it supports it)
Turn on badass PLII surround system that makes my PC speakers sound like walkie-talkies
Enjoy latest must-have title (which have been lacking in the last couple months for my Gamecube
Personally, I'll take the console experience over the PC experience any day
Plus, you can invite chicks over to watch movies on a home theater.
--Jeremy
Maintaining a 'gaming capable PC' doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, it makes you a hardware nut. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's just a completely different thing.
If you want to be a hardcore gamer, just play lots of (read: variety) games. You don't have to have an uber-l337 gaming PC to be a hardcore gamer.
And besides, I'll take my 34" widescreen pro-scan TV and Denon AVR 2803-driven surround system from the comfort of my couch over my PC any day.
--Jeremy
GTA isn't a US game. Rockstar North isn't based in the US.
--Jeremy
Nintendo has really fantastic first party games. And really, that and the game boy are about the only things keeping them afloat.
... duh? They make good products, and it keeps them afloat. Hell, not just afloat, but practially surfing their incredibly profitable niche.
Umm, I'd just like to point out
The way you make that statement, it seems to imply that they should need something more to stay competitive. What else, exactly, do you want from them? Should they also have a slew of crappy games to round out their library?
And the distinction between Nintendo and Sega is this: Nintendo is profitable. Sega wasn't. Comparing the two is just stupid. If you want to compare Sega to somebody, compare them to 3DO. And in turn, compare Nintendo to Apple.
--Jeremy
It's a 485Mhz custom Power PC, codenamed "Gekko"
--Jeremy
Think back to the Clinton years...
"Your honor, my client maintains that he has not stolen music, depending on what the definition of the word 'stolen' is."
(and FYI, I've officially boycotted the RIAA and MPAA. I'm not going to give someone my money so that they can turn around and treat me like a criminal.)
--Jeremy
get rid of that awful Robert A. Heinlein (he encourages bloody revolutions and polygamy!) and J.D. Salinger (Catcher in the Rye? More like Catcher in the Sin) and William Shakespeare (Sex, murder, psychopaths).
While I do agree with your point, to liken these authors and their works to garbage such as DOA:X and the multitude of PSX games that simply allow players to act out adolescent fantasies is to do a great disservice to the authors you mentioned. Their works, despite the 'rough' presentation, have a message, and challenge the reader intellectually. The likes of BMX:XXX do no such thing.
--Jeremy
Sure, it says that people mostly pirate games for the most popular systems. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It's not as if rampant piracy somehow contributed to the success of the Gameboy, PS1, or PS2.
And besides, I think you're a bit off on saying that the Gameboy has a high rate of piracy. Yeah, it is in the Asian/South American markets where you can buy bootleg carts. But in the states/Europe/Japan, most people don't buy bootlegs or have flash carts.
--Jeremy
Take out that incredibly stupid Maxim score of 100, and the game ends up with a solid score of 46.
The truly saddening thing is, I bet it'll still fly off the shelves.
--Jeremy
My only disappointment is the unlikeliness of a Mary Kate and Ashley Gamecube game. :(
Oh, if only that were true...
But unfortunately, it's already here.
--Jeremy
I dunno how many of these there'd be on the PS2, but there are lots of 4-player games on the 'Cube that let you play against 2 computer-controlled opponents. My SO and I generally go head-to-head against the computer players, so even though it's not a co-op game, per se, we can still cooperate and I don't have to just hand her ass to her over and over again. :)
Smash Bros: Melee and Super Monkey Ball 1/2 are particularly good for this.
--Jeremy
On the other hand this could kill sales of the GameCube because of the piracy and the already small library of decent games for the system. I for one hope the first is true because I think the system has amazing potential.
Small library of 'decent' games? Amazing 'potential'?
Luigi's Mansion
Super Monkey Ball 1/2
Pikmin
Smash Brothers: Melee
Sonic Adventure
RE 1/0
Bomberman Generations
Eternal Darkness
Mario Sunshine
Animal Crossing
Metroid Prime
Zelda: Wind Waker
Skies of Arcadia
Those are just off the top of my head, and there are several I've left out intentionally because I didn't think they're as good as they were given credit for (Splinter Cell, Rogue Squadron, Star Fox Adventure, etc).
And no, it's not gonna kill sales. It's still too hard to pirate, even if ISOs are available. How many people have DVD burners? The mod chips that are necessary aren't even here yet.
Hell, it took pirates nearly 2 years after the 'Cube's launch to dump ISOs. That's pretty impressive to me.
--Jeremy
And we all know that the letter of the law is 100% accurate.
DMCA, anyone?
To me, this whole argument is more about respect for other people's work. While I respect that Miyamoto and Warren Spector are great game designers, and I want to compensate them for their time by paying for their creations, there are others who just don't understand or care what goes into these things.
I can afford the games I want to play -- I pay for them. I never have to justify my actions to *anyone* or argue that piracy "isn't technically stealing," because I'm not doing anything wrong.
--Jeremy
About 2 posts down this thread, you said:
Let me make this as clear as possible to game hardware developers out there:
So long as your processor supports the jump assembly command, or your hardware uses standard CMOS/TTL voltages/IC's, your program/game can be hacked. I said 'can', because its all a matter of who wants to put the effort into it and not just the plain and simple fact that they can do it.
And now you're proposing a 'solution' to piracy? I came up with ways to start cracking your solution while I was reading it.
But that's completely besides the point, because you (and most other people) are missing the point of the kind of copy protection that Nintendo is going for here. Let me make this as clear as possible to you:
They want to stop casual piracy. Period. If you can discourage 90-99% of the population from trying to steal games, you've done your job. Personally, I think it sounds like a fairly discouraging process: going out looking for ISOs (a time-consuming process), then burning it to a mini-DVD, then modding your 'Cube to accept the mini-DVD.
It was much easier with the Dreamcast -- go get ISO, burn to CD, done. Not quite as easy with the Playstation: get mod chip, then burn a copy of any game. For the 'Cube, though, it's just not going to make much difference to most people. It's too much work. And that's all that matters to Nintendo.
--Jeremy
First of all, the taxes never end up going where they're supposed to go
You mean, like oil wars and missile defense systems?
--Jeremy
I always love how people complain about all the cheats that they don't use. If they use a cheat/hack, then that particular one becomes OK for whatever reason they've created to justify it.
You'll never win an argument with these people or convert them. I find it best to ignore them and play with non 'power-gamers.'
--Jeremy
He's talking about the Onyx and Flame colors. They won't be out 'til September.
--Jeremy