of course it's not a popular thing to say, and normally it's certainly not something i would say.
but do you also see the problem with this discussion? when the discussion is about the form of the discussion itself? free speech you believe in, but what about the people that dont believe in it? the way we do this discussion is completely in the realm of free speech, which of course is NOT the setting where those who do not belief in free speech wish to hold this discussion.
in a way this is how the west brings it culture around the world. "hi, lets have an open discussion about our culture." "uhm, well im not so sure i want to. i dont agree with open discussions." "good! now we're getting there, lets have this open discussion about why you dont want an open discussion."
btw i respect whatever you feel is one of the founding principles of America. Do you respect principles that go against that founding principle? with "listen" i meant also some sort of respect. listening is worthless without it. I guess all im saying is that free speech is soo much more than just letting everybody say what they want to say.
uhm this is about what parents want their kids to see when online. their motive for wanting to block pro-gun sites has as little to do with politics as their motivation is for not wanting their kids to see pornography online.
no i wouldn't be upset if the situation were reversed, i would be kinda suprised as it wouldn't make much sense to block anti-gun sites imo.
btw if in your opinion the problem arises out of the fact that libraries in the US are REQUIRED to use filtering software, isn't the real problem this actual requirement instead of the filtering software?
oh and i find the gun laws in the US much more obscene than pornography.
I just wish we Dutch people would someday have as much free speech as the Americans, and would be able to learn to listen to BOTH sides of any issue...
btw how much effort have you made to listen to my point of view that not all point of views should be listened to in an equal manner?
well if it were about violence or about war it would be much easier to understand.
parents would obviously rather have pro-war sites on the block list then anti-war sites.
I'm not saying pro guns = pro war, but the point is that it's not that easy to say: "hey its about the same subject matter so both (or neither side) sides should be blocked."
of course pro-gun people have always been very busy to make the point that gun ownership has no relation whatsoever with violence or war. I do think many parents just dont see that distinction. wouldn't be suprised if symantec actually did research on what parents would like to have blocked. and it wouldn't suprise me either that their research showed symantec that many parents wouldn't like their children to visit pro-gun sites.
btw i think there is quite a difference between American viewpoints on this issue and European (or in my case Dutch) viewpoints. I think to the main part of Dutch people it's obvious that pro-gun sites are the kind of sites parents would like to see blocked.
Today it's really amazing how the whole FPS world has gone for this whole "realism" thing.
As a quake3 player i find the realism thing very overrated and i find it amazing that after quake3 no solid follow up has been made.
What I, and many quake3 players with me, need is a solid new game engine that is geared towards a serious multiplayer environment. I find all the recent realism games lacking any real DM skills.
With fear of sounding like a total q3 fanboy some points of the q3 engine makes it more suited for brute skill (as opposed to the skill of strategy and communication which are to be found in the faster moving game of q3 as well).
1- strafejumping makes the actual movement something which takes skill. even after playing quake3 for years with a clan my strafejumping skills still dont come near the movement skills of some of the top players. it just adds another element of skill to the game.
2- aim. realism ruins this element of the game by actually adding code to introduce an element of luck to actually hitting people. Also the slow speed of the game makes hitting people much easier. And finally the gamecode which in turn makes people stop, crouch down and then hit fire might be more "realistic" but it also makes for even less moving targets and of course aiming at somebody when you're not moving yourself is much easier.
3. i miss the hitsound:)
with doom3, half life 2 and quake4 (according to an interview at quakecon done by gamespy) all being focused on the single player game, there really is no game out on the horizon which i can consider an heir to the quake3 throne.
will some game company please just step up and make a worthy follow up to osp q3?
How nice of you to mention the first man to the US race... kinda puts the "we did that 40 years ago" attitude into perspective doesn't it?
Europe was murdering indians loooooong before you guys even thought of killing iraqi's.... (and Europe is putting on their "been there, done that" stance?)
doubt they'll let europe and china use the same movieset to plant their flags...
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oh yes of course, anything the rest of the world does is motivated by our desire to stop the splendour that is the US economy. The jealousy is enormous... over here in Europe we dont have any black - white racial problems anymore as everybody has turned green with envy.
It is why people fly planes into big skyscrapers... It is why Saddam excepted those chemical weapons from the US... It is why we made the Kyoto thing... It is why Germany and France are still against killing millions of Iraqi's... It is why we laughed when Bush said funny things like "misunderestimate" and "sublimmmmennllll messages"... It is why third world countries stay poor, as the envy gets in the way of people doing anything productive... And... It's why the rest of the world is constantly hoping spaceshuttles explode in orbit...
"do the best you can." corny... every 12 year old hears this a million times a day... and "if you're reading this, you can safely ignore #8, as it probably doesn't apply to you." of course it doesn't apply to the kid following your advice, he'd be in an elderly home at age 12...
The only point I would like to comment on is the assumption that any pro-filesharing viewpoint is based on a bad conscience. The whole idea of "rationalising" our own bad behaviour is another way in which the music industry (and many other industries) does not take the public seriously. As a matter of fact that viewpoint speaks of such arrogance and only serves as a reminder of the self proclaimed moral high ground that the music industry has tried to talk itself onto.
As if talking to a child they discuss this matter with us in a sickening "yeah, deep inside you know you have been wrong, child." way. Calling the other side of the discussion table hypocritical is what has been done since the beginning of the discussion about fair intellectual property and copyrights. And it's also one of the reasons many people don't take the music industry serious any more.
Let me close of by telling you that there is NO feeling of guilt AT ALL in my mind. I have NOT rationalised it away (magically or otherwise) and NO I do NOT lie awake every night regretting my sins only to make myself feel better by thinking up illogical viewpoints which turn something which I in the core of my soul feel to be wrong. I do NOT believe in copyright laws as they are active in the world at this time and i do NOT feel any remorse in not complying with them. NONE!
So from now on lets just tell each other how we feel about things instead of telling the other one how he must be feeling.
that said... FIGHT THE POWER! DOWNLOAD A MP3! hehe
In some way it's already happening for a couple of years in Holland too. In principle at least because while we do not have raids on the cd-r companies like in mexico the dutch equivalent of the RIAA has made it so that they get a certain percentage of every sold cd-r.
How is the same in principle? Well the thought behind it is very similar. In both cases the record industry just assumes to know what those empty cd-r's will get used for. The only difference is the choice of action taken in light of that assumption.
When you think about it the thing happening in Mexico is the more logical one. Because when the first assumption is made the more logical step is to follow up that assumption with legal measures. At least the mexican stand on cd-r's is consistent in the sense that once they view it as an illegal activity they take legal actions... The dutch RIAA on the other hand chose to demand percentages of the profits made on the cd-r's. So people who just buy a 10 pack cd-r's to backup data are also paying the record companies through those percentages. This choice may at first seem logical as well (again once the first assumption is accepted) were it not for the fact that it is inconsistant with the record companies constant fight on piracy. So on the one hand they charge people for burning cd's because there are probably copyrighted mp3's involved but on the other hand they are working to make sure that no copyrighted material even exists unless pressed on their own releases. Its like on the one hand banning guns while on the other hand demanding a percentage for every gun sold.
So at least in Mexico a wrong assumption leads to an action that can be justified by that assumption while in holland a wrong assumption leads another action which in itself cant be justified by the wrong assumption.
Ah well, this whole problem will be solved with the new copyprotected discs, wont it? hehe
"It's neither on isonews.com, nforce.nl or vcdquality.com so I guess it's 99% likely to be a fake or released just hours ago.:-/"
as the guy said... and considering my post was about the "prestige" in movie pirating those sites are very important to the scene... sure some "hardcore" purists might say those sites are for the "n00bs" or whatever, but in the game of prestige its on those sites that the groups get their prestige. Getting props from the 200 or whatever people in a certain obscure irc channel is one thing but those sites are the places which get more widely acknowledged as the place where you must make your claim to worldwide "fame" as a release group...
While easy to make fun of, in the field of social studies i feel the way this pirating community sets its rules and standards is fascinating.
look if this story was true we would find copies of it on the net. Have you guys any idea how much prestige releasing this movie on the net would give to any movie release (pirate) groups?
In the scene of pirating movies everything is a prestige thing. Its about releasing the best quality movies before another group does it. The scene even has rules, though not as strict as the game-pirating scene. Anyway any group releasing this movie this early would get mucho kudoos or whatever those punks think they can measure their success as a pirate group with.
Any of the most succesfull groups have loads of contacts in Asia as things just are easier to get in asia, with more cinema-owners not caring about "lending" the screener-dvd to somebody for a night, and with all the anime or whatever kind of movies that are released there before the US.
The dvd-rip would most probably hit the internet even before the streetvendors have it. so since there are no dvdrips on the internet there very probably is no dvd for sale in asia... so this is instead just that lil bit more attention and part of the media hyping of the movie...
Im glad the marketing department of Lord Of The Rings has learned a lot from da master of all things movie marketing (and being greedy). First release the super dvd version (first rule is to never release a normal version, why even have a normal version when instead you can start at "super" level.). A couple months later you release the limited edition super version (it includes some documentary about the movie that has been used for marketing purposes on tv anyway and increases the value with 10 dollars although it seemed free enough when seen on tv). Another little while later you can release the extra special super release. (this one features the commentary of the cast on their own movie, as seen on tv. and what makes it really special even the director gives his view on the movie, perhaps even a whole audiotrack!). While director cuts originally might be best served 10 years later why not do it the same year? the super special extra limited edition of the director's cut (which features between 10 and 30 extra minutes which generally dont really help a story anyway) is the final release you do within the year of the first cinema release. (you can always rebox stuff and release something next year).
now the brilliant stuff to learn from mr lucas... release a box set with BOTH movies in one compilation. Sure! you can even make it a lil cheaper than buying both movies separately, because your target audience probably has already bought both separately anyway...
Another brilliant trick is that you can start this whole thing all over again whenever a new medium is released and pushed into consumers houses. More than enough money to fund some anti-piracy laws... life is good!
So clearly this should not even be on slashdot. Surely this way of using something that is designed to play ps2 games and dvd's to do something else is illegal! Sony might wanna bring a hardware divx player on the market in a later stage. By violating the PS2 in such a way you are effectively stealing money from them which you might have paid for their divx player when it will be released. I hope slashdot will quickly remove this newsitem and stops supporting theft!
actually what ive always wanted (who cares what/. wanted anyway) is to have normal prices for cd's. I've always wanted that ONLY the artist would actually make some money from a piece of art he made. What this means to me is that the public has once again lost its only way to express its views to the multinationals...
Apparently the globalised multinationals couldn't win this discussion about fair prices in a normal way and in the end had to cheat (ie use their fists instead of talking).
And dont tell me to "talk" by just not getting their stuff... I AM a member of this culture and the art of this culture is as important as food to me... depriving myself of culture is not an possibility.
As you might have noticed already i dont believe in intellectual property at all. Once Art has been given to the world by the Artist its no longer his! If it ever was... asking money for art is the utmost extreme of the individualistic view on humanity. As if the artist doesn't owe the world just as much as the world owes the artist...
Agreed... Radio stations play too much of the same shit. And besides limiting the new stuff we get to hear it also makes sure i dont buy anything they play on the radio anyway. Because i know that they'll gonna play it for months to come... and getting tired of a song is one thing, but having bought it and then getting tired of it through radio play is very irritating...
dont most of the mainstream p2p networks have ip adresses easily available? making the client hide ip adresses doesn't help much if you're scared the RIAA will log ip adresses, does it?
http://static.vcdquality.com/sample/id7932.jpg
quality is "quite good" for a cam according to the kids at vcdquality.com
p.s. if slashdot can tell everybody about it surely me posting a link to a pic is not all bad:P
Free speech has never been "complete" in Europe (well at least not in Holland anyway). There is Free Speech but there are other laws that conflict with this law. For example when somebody tells lies about somebody else which affect that person's life in a substantial way. Or when free speech is used to build communities that inflict damage to a person or groups of people.
This legal system realises that there is a link between what people say and what they do. Just think about advertising. advertising exists purely on this principle that what one person says can affect what another person does. With this principle in mind lets have an example which might at least bring this problem between free speech and illegality of certain actions to its breaking point.
Imagine a rich man who sympathises with the goals of al qaida and its terrorist activities. Imagine that guy being able to buy commercial time at lets say the superbowl break (isn't that a nice spot for a commercial?). In that commercial he would say that a mere 3 thousand dead New Yorkers are nothing compared to the 1.5 million iraqi's that already dead because of the import restrictions the US (and the UN) put around Iraq.
He would call on american citizens who are disappointed by their government to start their own terrorist cells or find ways to disrupt the american way of life as much as possible.
Another step further would be to imagine the commercial also actually containing technical information on the making of bombs or anthrax-like letters.
The mere fact that there are such things as "top secret" government files and that the publicising and spreading is illegal means that the US also has its limits on FREE SPEECH. In a country that beliefs in real FREE SPEECH there could be no such laws about information. Granted, the EU has always been taking a path that is less free speech than the US but saying that the US is not even ON the same slipperly slope is simple not true.
Imo the main reason for the lesser respect for free speech in Europe is because of world war II. There were very many europeans so badly scarred and hurt by the war that just somebody saying the holocaust didn't happen hurts these people to the core. I think many people after the war felt that the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that died on the beaches of Normandy (many of them American) and the millions of Russians and Jews that died during the second world war deserved more respect than to have people denying there ever was a war. Sure 60 years later its easier to let those nazi's tell us that the holocaust never happened but when it was just a couple of years after the war i can imagine that they made laws to ban such "free speech".
Slashdot Mirror
but do you also see the problem with this discussion? when the discussion is about the form of the discussion itself? free speech you believe in, but what about the people that dont believe in it? the way we do this discussion is completely in the realm of free speech, which of course is NOT the setting where those who do not belief in free speech wish to hold this discussion.
in a way this is how the west brings it culture around the world. "hi, lets have an open discussion about our culture." "uhm, well im not so sure i want to. i dont agree with open discussions." "good! now we're getting there, lets have this open discussion about why you dont want an open discussion."
btw i respect whatever you feel is one of the founding principles of America. Do you respect principles that go against that founding principle? with "listen" i meant also some sort of respect. listening is worthless without it. I guess all im saying is that free speech is soo much more than just letting everybody say what they want to say.
no i wouldn't be upset if the situation were reversed, i would be kinda suprised as it wouldn't make much sense to block anti-gun sites imo.
btw if in your opinion the problem arises out of the fact that libraries in the US are REQUIRED to use filtering software, isn't the real problem this actual requirement instead of the filtering software?
oh and i find the gun laws in the US much more obscene than pornography.
I just wish we Dutch people would someday have as much free speech as the Americans, and would be able to learn to listen to BOTH sides of any issue...
btw how much effort have you made to listen to my point of view that not all point of views should be listened to in an equal manner?
well if it were about violence or about war it would be much easier to understand. parents would obviously rather have pro-war sites on the block list then anti-war sites. I'm not saying pro guns = pro war, but the point is that it's not that easy to say: "hey its about the same subject matter so both (or neither side) sides should be blocked." of course pro-gun people have always been very busy to make the point that gun ownership has no relation whatsoever with violence or war. I do think many parents just dont see that distinction. wouldn't be suprised if symantec actually did research on what parents would like to have blocked. and it wouldn't suprise me either that their research showed symantec that many parents wouldn't like their children to visit pro-gun sites. btw i think there is quite a difference between American viewpoints on this issue and European (or in my case Dutch) viewpoints. I think to the main part of Dutch people it's obvious that pro-gun sites are the kind of sites parents would like to see blocked.
Will it feature those groovy red-orange dots?
No movie should be without them!
yeah! lets indeed get the facts straight... (that includes you mr Blair...)
What I, and many quake3 players with me, need is a solid new game engine that is geared towards a serious multiplayer environment. I find all the recent realism games lacking any real DM skills. With fear of sounding like a total q3 fanboy some points of the q3 engine makes it more suited for brute skill (as opposed to the skill of strategy and communication which are to be found in the faster moving game of q3 as well).
1- strafejumping makes the actual movement something which takes skill. even after playing quake3 for years with a clan my strafejumping skills still dont come near the movement skills of some of the top players. it just adds another element of skill to the game.
2- aim. realism ruins this element of the game by actually adding code to introduce an element of luck to actually hitting people. Also the slow speed of the game makes hitting people much easier. And finally the gamecode which in turn makes people stop, crouch down and then hit fire might be more "realistic" but it also makes for even less moving targets and of course aiming at somebody when you're not moving yourself is much easier.
3. i miss the hitsound :)
with doom3, half life 2 and quake4 (according to an interview at quakecon done by gamespy) all being focused on the single player game, there really is no game out on the horizon which i can consider an heir to the quake3 throne.
will some game company please just step up and make a worthy follow up to osp q3?
How nice of you to mention the first man to the US race... kinda puts the "we did that 40 years ago" attitude into perspective doesn't it? Europe was murdering indians loooooong before you guys even thought of killing iraqi's.... (and Europe is putting on their "been there, done that" stance?)
doubt they'll let europe and china use the same movieset to plant their flags...
It is why people fly planes into big skyscrapers...
It is why Saddam excepted those chemical weapons from the US...
It is why we made the Kyoto thing...
It is why Germany and France are still against killing millions of Iraqi's...
It is why we laughed when Bush said funny things like "misunderestimate" and "sublimmmmennllll messages"...
It is why third world countries stay poor, as the envy gets in the way of people doing anything productive...
And... It's why the rest of the world is constantly hoping spaceshuttles explode in orbit...
"do the best you can." corny... every 12 year old hears this a million times a day...
and
"if you're reading this, you can safely ignore #8, as it probably doesn't apply to you." of course it doesn't apply to the kid following your advice, he'd be in an elderly home at age 12...
As if talking to a child they discuss this matter with us in a sickening "yeah, deep inside you know you have been wrong, child." way. Calling the other side of the discussion table hypocritical is what has been done since the beginning of the discussion about fair intellectual property and copyrights. And it's also one of the reasons many people don't take the music industry serious any more.
Let me close of by telling you that there is NO feeling of guilt AT ALL in my mind. I have NOT rationalised it away (magically or otherwise) and NO I do NOT lie awake every night regretting my sins only to make myself feel better by thinking up illogical viewpoints which turn something which I in the core of my soul feel to be wrong. I do NOT believe in copyright laws as they are active in the world at this time and i do NOT feel any remorse in not complying with them. NONE!
So from now on lets just tell each other how we feel about things instead of telling the other one how he must be feeling.
that said... FIGHT THE POWER! DOWNLOAD A MP3! hehe
How is the same in principle? Well the thought behind it is very similar. In both cases the record industry just assumes to know what those empty cd-r's will get used for. The only difference is the choice of action taken in light of that assumption.
When you think about it the thing happening in Mexico is the more logical one. Because when the first assumption is made the more logical step is to follow up that assumption with legal measures. At least the mexican stand on cd-r's is consistent in the sense that once they view it as an illegal activity they take legal actions... The dutch RIAA on the other hand chose to demand percentages of the profits made on the cd-r's. So people who just buy a 10 pack cd-r's to backup data are also paying the record companies through those percentages. This choice may at first seem logical as well (again once the first assumption is accepted) were it not for the fact that it is inconsistant with the record companies constant fight on piracy. So on the one hand they charge people for burning cd's because there are probably copyrighted mp3's involved but on the other hand they are working to make sure that no copyrighted material even exists unless pressed on their own releases. Its like on the one hand banning guns while on the other hand demanding a percentage for every gun sold.
So at least in Mexico a wrong assumption leads to an action that can be justified by that assumption while in holland a wrong assumption leads another action which in itself cant be justified by the wrong assumption.
Ah well, this whole problem will be solved with the new copyprotected discs, wont it? hehe
as the guy said... and considering my post was about the "prestige" in movie pirating those sites are very important to the scene... sure some "hardcore" purists might say those sites are for the "n00bs" or whatever, but in the game of prestige its on those sites that the groups get their prestige. Getting props from the 200 or whatever people in a certain obscure irc channel is one thing but those sites are the places which get more widely acknowledged as the place where you must make your claim to worldwide "fame" as a release group...
While easy to make fun of, in the field of social studies i feel the way this pirating community sets its rules and standards is fascinating.
In the scene of pirating movies everything is a prestige thing. Its about releasing the best quality movies before another group does it. The scene even has rules, though not as strict as the game-pirating scene. Anyway any group releasing this movie this early would get mucho kudoos or whatever those punks think they can measure their success as a pirate group with.
Any of the most succesfull groups have loads of contacts in Asia as things just are easier to get in asia, with more cinema-owners not caring about "lending" the screener-dvd to somebody for a night, and with all the anime or whatever kind of movies that are released there before the US. The dvd-rip would most probably hit the internet even before the streetvendors have it. so since there are no dvdrips on the internet there very probably is no dvd for sale in asia... so this is instead just that lil bit more attention and part of the media hyping of the movie...
ah thats the one i have then... i was wondering why the dvdrip i downloaded for backup purposes didn't have the same red tint...
now the brilliant stuff to learn from mr lucas... release a box set with BOTH movies in one compilation. Sure! you can even make it a lil cheaper than buying both movies separately, because your target audience probably has already bought both separately anyway...
Another brilliant trick is that you can start this whole thing all over again whenever a new medium is released and pushed into consumers houses. More than enough money to fund some anti-piracy laws... life is good!
So clearly this should not even be on slashdot. Surely this way of using something that is designed to play ps2 games and dvd's to do something else is illegal! Sony might wanna bring a hardware divx player on the market in a later stage. By violating the PS2 in such a way you are effectively stealing money from them which you might have paid for their divx player when it will be released. I hope slashdot will quickly remove this newsitem and stops supporting theft!
Apparently the globalised multinationals couldn't win this discussion about fair prices in a normal way and in the end had to cheat (ie use their fists instead of talking).
And dont tell me to "talk" by just not getting their stuff... I AM a member of this culture and the art of this culture is as important as food to me... depriving myself of culture is not an possibility.
As you might have noticed already i dont believe in intellectual property at all. Once Art has been given to the world by the Artist its no longer his! If it ever was... asking money for art is the utmost extreme of the individualistic view on humanity. As if the artist doesn't owe the world just as much as the world owes the artist...
Yeah right... got a new slashdot nick, mr Gore?
Agreed... Radio stations play too much of the same shit. And besides limiting the new stuff we get to hear it also makes sure i dont buy anything they play on the radio anyway. Because i know that they'll gonna play it for months to come... and getting tired of a song is one thing, but having bought it and then getting tired of it through radio play is very irritating...
dont most of the mainstream p2p networks have ip adresses easily available? making the client hide ip adresses doesn't help much if you're scared the RIAA will log ip adresses, does it?
http://static.vcdquality.com/sample/id7932.jpg quality is "quite good" for a cam according to the kids at vcdquality.com p.s. if slashdot can tell everybody about it surely me posting a link to a pic is not all bad :P
imagine audio cd's having a 30 seconds "ripping to mp3 is illegal" message which you had to listen to when you press play...
This legal system realises that there is a link between what people say and what they do. Just think about advertising. advertising exists purely on this principle that what one person says can affect what another person does. With this principle in mind lets have an example which might at least bring this problem between free speech and illegality of certain actions to its breaking point.
Imagine a rich man who sympathises with the goals of al qaida and its terrorist activities. Imagine that guy being able to buy commercial time at lets say the superbowl break (isn't that a nice spot for a commercial?). In that commercial he would say that a mere 3 thousand dead New Yorkers are nothing compared to the 1.5 million iraqi's that already dead because of the import restrictions the US (and the UN) put around Iraq. He would call on american citizens who are disappointed by their government to start their own terrorist cells or find ways to disrupt the american way of life as much as possible.
Another step further would be to imagine the commercial also actually containing technical information on the making of bombs or anthrax-like letters.
The mere fact that there are such things as "top secret" government files and that the publicising and spreading is illegal means that the US also has its limits on FREE SPEECH. In a country that beliefs in real FREE SPEECH there could be no such laws about information. Granted, the EU has always been taking a path that is less free speech than the US but saying that the US is not even ON the same slipperly slope is simple not true.
Imo the main reason for the lesser respect for free speech in Europe is because of world war II. There were very many europeans so badly scarred and hurt by the war that just somebody saying the holocaust didn't happen hurts these people to the core. I think many people after the war felt that the hundreds of thousands of soldiers that died on the beaches of Normandy (many of them American) and the millions of Russians and Jews that died during the second world war deserved more respect than to have people denying there ever was a war. Sure 60 years later its easier to let those nazi's tell us that the holocaust never happened but when it was just a couple of years after the war i can imagine that they made laws to ban such "free speech".
some nice tunes you got there on the site... i enjoyed them very much...