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Psst! Eight Bits Gets You "The Two Towers" In China
rocodipoco writes "CNN reports on this article about DVDs of "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" were available in Shanghai two weeks ago for about $1 a pop, according to one Western film industry executive who visited that city. The film opens in North America on December 18. Interviewed at the CineAsia movie convention, the executive said as many as 40 street vendors were openly offering DVDs outside a Shanghai mall; he declined their offers, and thus can't verify the quality of the counterfeit copies. I personally want to wait for the movie to hit the big screen...it's all about the suspense. What do others think?"
I realize that movies are sometimes released to the net and/or street vendors (primarily in Asia) before their official release dates, but like the false reports of the second Harry Potter movie being available months before release, I think this is just some bullshit the industry exec invented out of whole cloth to prove again how 'damaging' pirating is to his industry. I'm not pro-piracy in any way, but a line of bullshit is a line of bullshit.
call me naive, but LotR is one of those movies that people don't _want_ to pirate.
I know several people who had a SVCD-rip of the full movie and yet they still got the full DVD set half a year later...
------------------
You may like my a cappella music
I have the DVD of FOTR and it really really sucks on my TV. You can hardly see the characters. Either you have a really huge screen, or you better wait for the theaters.
KdenLive/PIAVE - non-linear video editing
I don't know why everyone likes watching movies in theaters. I like the ability to pause if I need to releave myself. My home is also a more comfortable setting. Of course "counterfeit" movies may not as high a quality but it's not giving money to MPAA.
Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
However, I sure want to see that film in a BIG screen, I don't think I'll ever buy a DVD of it.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
then you should be able to pull it of gnutella .
any one seen this file floating around and can confirm its existance ?
I personally can't wait to see it either as the trailer was awesome... except for the fact that they used music orrgionaly composed for the move Requiem for a Dream. I kept having visions of elves shooting up heroin after hearing the music.
No only am I waiting to see it on a big screen (anyone know if and where it will be on IMAX - That's how I first saw Episode I - whew), but I plan on rewatching TFOTRs the day before.
You mean it's all about hype?
i live in lebanon (middle east) and we get these DVDs from asia for each and every film before the official release but i have to say this is usually recorded on mini DV by someone during a prerelease of the film. u actually see shades of people and heads moving around and teh sound is the ambiant sound.
believe me i still go to the movies to c the real thing! cause these DVDs suck big time.
baxter yazbek
http://www.baxter2.com
beirut - lebanon
Wasn't this available for download through KaZaA a while back? Why would you order a questionable-quality version from China if you could pull (possibly) the same thing from a P2P network?
Not like I have the will (or the bandwidth for that matter) to pull the movie, but it shouldn't be such a big deal if it was already available.
It is ;)
Sounds like scaremongering to me..."insidious crime ring use ninja to pirate film prior to release".
The industry needs to either get their act together re how they embargo new releases or give up their sad attempts at pre-release hype.
woulda been online the day it came out there if it where real... it's gotta be some exec wanting more leverage.
he declined their offers, and thus can't verify the quality of the counterfeit copies.
Talking about making a fool of himself...
bash$
After just viewing LOTR: The Two Towers, I was shocked when I found out that they all died....
In college, really poor, need a flatscreen.
Dude, read the book....
Suspense is sitting at the edge of your seat wondering whats going to happen next. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I think most people reading slashdot are going in to these movies knowing more or less whats goign to happen. The suspense factor just isn't going to be there.
I think the exciting part about seeing these movies is comparing how the movie compares to what the story looked like in your own imagination. Just as an example, I pictured the great river as a river as wide as the Columbia, winding through a dry wasteland. In the movie it was portrayed in an entirely different way. Thats what excited me, to see what another person imagined the story to be like.
I think if your watching the movies for the suspense, do yourself a favor and read the book. Sometimes knowing whats going to happen is even better.
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
Well, I don't believe anyone who really appreciates movies would want these. It's a similar mentality to those hordes of 14year old "gimmes" who download tons and tons of mp3s and DivXs because they can, and it's somehow "cool" to have it before anyone else. Half the time, they don't even watch them! It's just a status/ego thing to be able to say "oh, I've got that. Had it for weeks *yawn*".
What interests me is that I've always thought this was quite a "western" mentality, grounded in materialism and greed. Are the Chinese just the same? Or do they have other motivations?
Prisoner #655321
WARNING!!! TO ALL TROLLS. Being moderated as "Troll" in a discussiona about the LoR might make you allergic to daylight.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
For me Usenet is one of the most reliable sources for this kind of news. If it hasn't been posted on newsgroups, it is most certainly not available.
There is a very good search engine available: http://alt.binaries.nl
If you can't find it there, it's not posted/available.
Daxy's Networking Blog
China has always been good with replication (yes, it reflects on their population too ;)). They are bright, intelligent and hard workers. I guess they lack that innovative touch, otherwise they would have shaken the world by now. It's not just China. I'm pretty sure that Malaysia, Thailand will also have copies floating around. DVDs... now that's the shocker. We've heard of cds, they are cheap and easy to duplicate. Usually they dump "Camera prints" on their early releases, but DVDs ?? Are they proper DVDs or are they just camera prints dumped on DVD media ?
Their loss though, coz such an epic will lose its impact if not seen on the big screen !!!!
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
People who are genuinely interested will go and se the movie anyway, probably even if it would turn out that the movie somehow sucked..
Sure some would skip paying tickets but at the same time some one who might have skipped the move will go and see it, so personally I think the result would end up even.
Dr. Eric Peters had to say:
:P
speaking of the two towers, has anyone seen these sites?
Some guy wants to rename the movie [petitiononline.com] because he says the movie is being named "The Two Towers" to mock the events of 9/11
Then he has support from this group [twotowersprotest.org] who have a similar agenda.
Man, this is a screwed up world.
Just another example of people wanting to hide themselves in a world of make believe and try to sugar coat anything that makes them feel uncomfortable, or makes them start to THINK.
After all, if the vast majority of the world's population actually woke up and started to think and care about the world and others around them, it might strain a few brain cells. That requires too much effort for most.
After all, Friends is on every night!
Those of us who have seen The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring know what an amazing director Peter Jackson is. When I learned that there apparently was to be a sequel, I was overjoyed. However, Peter Jackson has decided to tastelessly name the sequel "The Two Towers". The title is clearly meant to refer to the attacks on the World Trade Center. In this post-September 11 world, it is unforgiveable that this should be allowed to happen. The idea is both offensive and morally repugnant. Hopefully, when Peter Jackson and, more importantly, New Line Cinema see the number of signatures on this petition, the title will be changed to something a little more sensitive.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
Some people are stupid.
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
idiots, this is clearly nothing to do with the setember 11th attack. The book was titled 47 years ago!
I've seen a few copies of LoTR 2 here in China. Sort of. All the DVD/VCD copies I've seen here so far have been labelled quite well. Pretty box art and everything. But when you put in the disc it turns out to be a completely different movie. Not sure which movie it was as I didn't watch long enough to be sure, but it's some old fantasy flick from the 70's. AFAIK they don't have a real copy of LoTR 2 yet in China.
Do not anger the worm.
For a film to have its amazing SFX used as a selling point is pathetic.
Anyway, where's the suspense? I can hardly believe that anyone here really doesn't know the LoTR storyline by now?
Not trolling, just pissed off at the way films are made and sold sometimes....
Tom.
Oh arse
This sounds like quite a bargain, regardless of what's on the DVD.
I despise everything about hollywood. They don't really care about good smart stories anymore, it's all about making money. I will never pay for a movie again, never go to a theatre, never buy a DVD, I'm going to pirate anything I want to see.
Fortunately all the music I listen to is on very small artist conscious labels, I wish I could say something like that existed in the film industry. But when the latest "indie" gem is produced by Tom Hanks (My Big Fat Greek Wedding) and was produced for a relatively "low" cost ($5,000,000) it's tough to imagine it's ever going to happen.
I have read the books years ago...
Just as with the Star Wars movies, there are two things I don't get:
-do you really want the first time you see this movie to be on a small screen (yeah, 21" is small for this kind of thing) with crappy quality? Or do you want to see it and be surprised by surround sound with a HUGE screen?
-I don't really get "freaked out by the piracy" act from the studios either; it's gonna happen, and the people who watch the bad quality rip will see it in cinema's too. If they can afford it...and if they can't, they wouldn't see it anyway.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
yeah, if you like porn, you can have the "Two Towers.dvdrip.(REAL!!!).avi" or a hundred variants of the same crap. I've tried 'em all, haven't found the real thing yet. However, Two Towers.avi" was pretty good, because I've been looking for Ghost Dog for quite some time. If only it wasn't such a terrible low-res rip.
If the REAL DEAL was out there, I'd have it already for sure - you can't hide something that big for sooo long. Fucking liar movie guy. Hong Kong doesn't have it, Chinatown here doesn't have it.. plain fact: it ain't there.
The one at Petitiononline was started by Klerk the page widner. troll
Thanks to my brother, I *ahem* had access to Episode 1 on VCD about a month before it came out.
There were three girls on my entire engineering course at the time. One of them was a Star Wars fan, not to mention gorgeous. I happened to mention that I had this VCD, and that night found us lying on my bed in my darkened room staring at a 14" monitor. (I said monitor).
Can't believe I actually watched that movie, but it was worth it. Unfortunately I was too stupid to take advantage of the situation. Wonder if she's into LOTR? =)
After seeing FotR I'm still wondering how I could get my money back; I'm certainly not forking out another dollar's worth to see a film advertising a DVD which is a taster for the director's cut DVD which is still a sloppy hack-work version of a good book.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
the sooner megasloth et AL gets in touch with the notion of competition, they'll get the "picture", or sombody else will make movies that cost 2 bucks, know?
almost everything's gnu now. there's no turning back, who'd waNT to?
Having traveled in Asia a couple of times, I know from experience that this does indeed happen. Street vendors in cities like Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur are selling lots of pirated CD's and DVD's. It's quite funny to see them running when the police show up. Many guesthouses and restaurants show movies too. I have seen movies in Asia that hadn't started showing in the theaters in Europe when I came back home.
Holleywood has denied any attempt to profit off september 11 with the release of the new Bruce Willis action movie "Bin Laden go bye bye". Industry sources say that its a tribute to the fallen heros and every dollar spent will only prove the success of western capitalism and how great the US is.
yeah, noting how net?wurking? ?solutions? has lowered their annual ransom fee to 15$ for "special" transfers. i wonder how that gels with their stock markup FraUD "business" plan that says domain regs. are 35$ annually?
IT's all mostly phony anyway, so afturd a few billyun in proformulahlahs, & we'll be back on top again.
Ahh suspense. Yes I love it, and hate it. Man, I't going to be a long slew of false downloads on kazaa for a while I guess.
My brother and I are making a game for the movie called "one (tabacoo wrapped smoking item) to rule them all." it's about smoking the halfling leafe and forgeting the first time you see a movie of such epic proportions. The theme for this game, a secret now that only fire can tell.
I know several people who described identical experiences buying DVDs in China. It seemed too good to be true, near-cost prices and titles which had sometimes only been rumored to be in production. The labels looked authentic at first glance but often contained spelling errors... possibly composed of images gleaned from promotional material.
The movie inside was not at all the one which was advertised. Usually it was an old movie with a similar theme.
-Rick
did the exec actually BUY one of those 'dvd's and try if it was really the 'real thing'.
couple of months ago there was this huge fuzz about two towers being available on kazaa, whilst it isn't. there's just a shitload of fakes.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
It's not just about "doing business" during a movie either. Nor is it just about the biiig screen and THX sound. It's the leg room. It's the cuddling with a loved one, or pet as the case may be. It's the 75 cents for popcorn and koolaid vs $8 for popcorn and ice(soda if you're lucky).
And, for some weird reason, most people at the movie theater don't like it when I bring my bong.
He painted a unicorn in outer space. I'm askin' ya, what's it breathin'?
To be quite honest, I saw a HIGH QUALITY version of the first movie 2-3 days before it's initial release in the theatres. Every 10 minutes or so it would say "If you bought, traded yadayadaa" it basically told me to call the MPAA on myself..lol. Anyways, this was the copy that was distributed to film critics and at least one film critic decided to free it from the chains of "intellectual property"...
Let me guess, you must be polish? ;-)
Making money off the misery of others is morally reprehensible.
That's not what's happening here. Money is being made of a movie based on a book about a fantasy world, that thousands of people all around the world enjoyed. Money is being made off the enjoyment of others.
The fact that the name is "The Two Towers" and reminds you of something else is "purely coincidental" (note, NOT The Twin Towers, the name those buildings went by), and should not be changed.
I'm sorry it upsets your sensibilities, but if movies that evoke memories of horrible things are wrong, what about Shindlers List, Saving Private Ryan, Peal Harbour, ad nauseum? Those movies are making money of misery, not LOTR.
Give it a couple of years, Hollywood will have a Twin Towers Blockbuster out soon enough. I wonder if Bruce Willis will play a fireman?
I have not read the book but I somehow liked the first episode (especially the "balrog" or whatever this huge dude was named).
I'll then get and watch the second part.
If I think it sucks, then they won't see me at the movies next year.
In this situation, also, if people ask for my advice, I may encourage them to get a DivX to make their how mind as, if it sucks, it is then not "DVD-able".
Another case would be Star Wars : I definitely liked episodes 4-6 but I just hate these crappy 1-2 (and probable 3) re-issues.
I know they won't issue the 4-6 episodes separately in DVD and they expect most people to pay for the 6 episodes at once when they'll issue this shit-to-be collector's item edition, whatever bundle.
In this case, I'd be happy to get the DivX of the original 4-6 episodes.
I don't want to pay for some overhyped shit when what led me to see Star Wars was made around 20 years ago.
This could be the same for LOTR... If it sucked (except that I dont' try and obtain shitty movies...).
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Yes, the "Two Towers" movie is out. Actually I don't know what all the fuss is about, it got a considerable airplay on many tv stations on its world television premiere date, Sept. 11, 2001. Warning: Spoilers follow.
To summarize, a group a evil religious fanatics hijack several jet airliners and crash them into strategic targets in the U.S. The terrorists exhibit incredible feats of flying, maneuvering their jet airliners deftly into the World Trade Centers (this part really had my "suspension of disbelief" pushed to the limits. Ever TRY those maneuvers with, say, MS Flight Sim? Guffaw!". Anyway, the jet airliners cause the massive WTC towers to fail and collapse to the ground, within mere minutes of each other (uh, huh), causing the death of thousands of American lives! Then, the president gets on the horn, orders troops to Afghanistan where they do battle with religious fanatics where (how's this for an imagination: playing sports and music is forbidden, and women aren't allowed to be educated or seek medical attention!!! hahahah, these Hollywood writers kill me sometimes) and justice prevails. The religious fanatics are driven out of the country in only a couple of months, and the country, rocked by war for
decades, is miraculously transformed into a democratic society with rights for all, women included.
Talk about your made-for-tv bad movies! I must say, the special effects were not too shabby, for a tv movie though. Kudos to whoever put that together (Industrial Light and Magic?)!
To the contrary, I love my movies loud, to the point a contract-signing-worthy hearing damage. That THX sound is something cosmic, it's HUGE!!! sometimes I stand up and scream, "THAT SOUND IS SO FUCKING HUGE! HOLY SHIT!" Thats how loud I like my movies :) :D
But I digress, Would it hurt the theatres to have showings at different volume preferences. Because I want the voice of Saron to pierce my living - likely high and scared - soul
also I am going to download this new one.
Another thing that sucks is bar cover charge...I guess they're special but I'd like to see stores like Wal-Mart try to charge cover for the opportunity to shop there.
- Health, Fitness, and Weight Loss News
mod up.
the reporter who reported that lotr:two towers was on kazaa was a s**** **** ** ***** and was just needing something scandalous/big/newsworthy, WITHOUT CHECKING HIS SOURCES.
it's like if i made a webpage that said g. bush shoots up heroin 3am every morning, and the next day someone published it as first page news..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I did a scan just out of curiosity on a couple of underground P2P networks, and low and behold, Two towers was available. (No I'm not going to tell you where I found it, but I suspect that most P2P apps will be sharing it soon, if not already)
I resisted the temptation to hit 'download', as I to would love to see this first on a large screen, with state of the art dolby digital sound. I agree - It's all about the experience, suspense, hype... Watching the movie first on a 15" laptop screen with poorly coded audio and video would destroy the whole buzz for me...
-- 7 string electric violin + live loop samplers
I'm almost totally convinced this either isn't true or the quality is so bad that a purchaser of one of these dvds wouldn't be able to tell whether or not she got the real thing.
But just in case...
This is the only kind of piracy that I actively and vocally oppose. Most of what's labeled as piracy nowadays is simply acting in accordance with the laws of information physics at possible detriment to the financial standing of companies that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo with regards to content-centric business models. I'm not saying it's good or bad. In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite: when someone copies digital media, legally or illegally, they're simply doing what the laws of physics of information permit. "Piracy" of digital media after it has been sold or rented to the public is as natural and unstoppable as falling after jumping off a cliff. (I.e. It can be stopped, but only through extreme measures like stationing a police officer in every home, or bungeeing [is that a word?] yourself to a crane you've rented for the specific occasion. And even though it can be stopped, that does not take away from the fact that physics still works. Information is still copied in a free society. You still experience the force of gravity when you're hanging from a crane.)
However, just because information physics doesn't permit the kind of control over information that big media companies would like (i.e. the ability to sell information as a physical good) doesn't mean that they have no control. On the contrary. The one and only way information can be controlled is by keeping it a secret. The one and only way information can be kept secret is by assuring that all entities that have access to that information:
1. Agree to keep the information secret.
and
2. Are able to keep the information secret.
While DRM schemes like Palladium or SDMI aim to prevent the unstoppable variety of piracy, they cannot do so because they violate #2. DRM system designers may want to keep information a secret even after it enters a consumer's home, but no device is capable of that. (Yes, you could encase every computer in 10 meters of titanium, but if you're going to allow such extreme protection of content in a hypothetical situation, you also must allow extreme resources on the part of the consumer as well.)
On the other hand, movie companies are very capable (or should be very capable) of keeping a movie secret until its release. If the film didn't leave the care of responsible individuals who care about the profits to be had when it is finally released, bootleg preview copies like the ones mentioned in this article wouldn't exist. You can't sell copies of information you can't get at all.
It's because of this that I oppose this kind of copying and will never purchase or watch any kind of pre-release copy such as this. This kind of piracy is damaging to both consumers and producers of content, but most importantly it is preventable.
I'm not saying that I pirate (or support the piracy of) MP3s or rentable movies online; in fact, I'm of the opinion that there is an overall negative impact on the self caused by participating in the unstoppable variety of piracy in a legal system which doesn't allow it. Easy availability of content through illegal means anesthetizes potential activists and prevents them from acting towards greater good. It stops people not from understanding there is a problem with the legal system, but really feeling it to the point where they're willing to act. Want to hear a conspiracy theory? Maybe the content industries are holding back on prosecuting file traders so that they can get more anti-consumer legislation passed before people really start to pay attention.
Ugh. It's way too late to be evangelizing on slashdot. I'm going to bed.
</soapbox>
I love the guy who does those - YOU FAIL IT - posts, he always types a perfect rebuttal to anything he disagrees with.
I saw "copies" of the two towers in malaysia this summer. I was only tempted for a second: they surely were fakes as the ones now selling in china.
if the movie hasn't been released on DVD yet, it is usually of the theatre-screening-captured-on-a-camcorder variety. Just like the theatre experience, complete the sounds of the audience coughing and chewing popcorn, but obviously terrible picture and sound quality.
if the movie has been officially released on DVD, then these are usually perfect copies. The discs are sometimes flawed, though, as they are cheaply laminated. I don't know what their shelf life is.
If you don't care about the moral issues of piracy, then these DVDs are a great deal. You can expect about one of every three that you buy to be duds, but even then at less than $1 a pop, I ended up with well over 50 movies for less than $100 spent.
This is a copy and paste of a response made to a comment I made a while back, it really opened my eyes as to *why* chinese are so into open source. I believe that Chinese frugalness (as explained by the below re-post) is to blame for the rampant piracy of The Two Towers.
Before I get to the repost i'd like to add in my own link and two cents from the SVCD Faq I read.
Cool huh? It's a part of their culture folks. How can Hollywood fight an entire culture of 4 billion people?
The only thing that strikes us Americans as odd is the communist goverment that is in power there. As geeks we are appalled that they would dare install a firewall to protect their people, which in our eyes is a violation of their free speech, but this is what their society just does. How do you convince this culture of 4 billion people that what they are doing is not being frugal but stealing
It would begin at a goverment level, and the police would have to crack down on the street vendors that bootleg it. Will it happen? I doubt it, from the above snippet of the SVCD faq I bet the goverment is celebrating yet another victory.
I am, for one. (Re: Are there any Chinese slash..) (Score:5, Informative)by DigitalHammer (581235) <digitalhammer001&hotmail,com> on Wednesday August 14, @02:49AM (#4068791) Is there any Chinese Slashdotters...that can provide a cultural insight as to why china would be so open to open source?
First of all I would like to state that I am of pure Chinese descent.
To answer your question, I believe there are 3 factors that make China very open to open source: Confucianism, the WTO, and Microsoft licensing.
The centuries-old mentality of being extremly frugal with one's money or possesions. Though this idea is ancient, the Communist government began to encourage the use of this virtue in times of famine and hardship. This article from Time Magazine titled Overeating Dying in China further explains:
In the early 1980s when some nouveau rich squandered their money on restaurants delicacies and government officials took advantage of their jobs to attend luxurious feasts, a distorted concept was built up in most Chinese's minds: the wealthier one is, the more fatty foods are on your dinning table.
The grumbles about upstarts' arrogance and the government officials' corruption turned into general disapproval. People began to look favorably at the ancient Chinese maxim which praises abstinence in consumption....Considering the 30 million destitute Chinese struggling in remote mountainous areas and those laid-off work who are living a hard life, traditional virtues like fighting one's way up and building the country through hardship and thrift are still highly encouraged by the Chinese government.
This frugal ideal, reinvigorated in the minds of mainland Chinese, compounded with ancient Confucian values of filial piety encourage the development and acceptance of open source software over propeitery ones in China. The bit about filial piety applies to the corporate environment of Chinese businesses. Filial piety in Chinese families enforce the younger family members' respect of older ones. This encourages the younger members' to set priorities that value the importance of the older family member (typically the father, mother, and grandparents). Chinese children, raised under this mentality, carry these priorities over to their workplace where they place their upmost importance upon the boss and senior officials (formerly occupied by older family members).
In most, if not all jobs in China involving internal technology, the IT manager must find software that will create a stable infrastructure while saving as much money as possible. This is where the frugal mentality and the rigid set of priorities converge to brighten the appeal of open source software. Because China is attempting to gain full membership within the WTO, which requires its adherance to strict IP rules, the country began an enormous crackdown on the pirated software industry. Using pirated (MS) software no longer was an option, as it used to be 10 years ago. Another path would be to purchase MS software licenses. However, the thought of accepting the dinosauric financial demands of Microsoft licensing contracts clashed with the frugal mentality prolific with Chinese tech companies, and the set of priorities spawned by Confucian filial piety led them to consider the amount of funds that could be saved and allocated for other departments by not buying licenses. In turn, Chinese techs were left with another option: Open source software, more specifically Linuix. The legal and cost-free nature of the penguin OS became an appealing option to the Chinese techs, and in turn took the opportunity to develop and integrate it in to their corporate infrastructure.
Chinese cultural traditions of filial piety and frugality are further explained in this excerpt of the site Paul Herbig's Working Papers:
Chinese Network
The Chinese commonwealth is a group of small Chinese companies from all over the world affiliated with each other, protecting and taking care of each others businesses. They are also referred to as 'Greater China', or the 'Chinese Network'.
The survival mentality and the Confucian tradition of patriarchal authority, form the values of a typical Chinese entrepreneur - one who seeks to control his own small dynasty. These so call life raft values are:
l.Thrift ensures survival.
2.A high, even irrational, level of savings is desirable, regardless of immediate needs.
3.Hard work to the point of exhaustion is necessary to ward off the many hazards present in an unpredictable world.
4.The only people you can trust are family-- and a business enterprise is created as a familial life raft.
5.The judgment of an incompetent relative in the family business is more reliable than that of a competent stranger.
6.Obedience to patriarchal authority is essential to maintaining coherence and direction for the enterprise;
7.Investment must be based on kinship or clan affiliations
8.Tangible goods, like real estate
9.Keep your bags packed at all times,day or night (Kao,p.25).
Unlike the Japanese Keiretsu, the Chinese network is an open system for all Chinese entrepreneurs all over the world. They watch for each others businesses and help those who are in need. These Chinese entrepreneurs have a give - and - take relationship. The network is usually formed by joint ventures, weddings, political opportunities and common cultures. Ownership of the company are usually passed to relatives, regardless of their educational background or competency (the classic example is An Wang's passing of his company, Wang Computers, to his mediocre son instead of professional managers--which ended in failure). Generation after generation, no matter in what culture they were brought up, every Chinese seeks control and security of their businesses.
The first Chinese generation has a survival and Confucius mentality. Every business decision is made for the future of the family. Unlike the old generation, the younger generation are born in other countries outside of mainland China. They do not only carry the Chinese culture, but the one they were born in as well. This generation, especially if born in a western country, has a sense of individualism. Companies like Winbond,a high-tech company in Taiwan, which considers themselves to be a Chinese company , believes that you should respect your family and love ones but you have to set your mind on what is right for the company. D.Y. Yang,owner of Winbond, says, A Chinese company depends less on data and more on intuition,feelings,and people. But on the other hand, he also mentions, Of course you have to respect the family business structure, but since this is a high tech company,individual contributions are important (Kao,p31).
---snip
I have heard about the open markets in china where you can purchase bootlegs of any software for near the cost of the CD. If the choice is between M$ at
On a side note, frugality, combined with Communist ideals and Confucian values led to the explosive growth of the pirated software and media industry in China, as this essay written by Rutgers Univesity student Sheng Ding explains:
Confucius's concept of the transmission of culture and Marx's views on the social nature of language and invention arose from very different ideological foundations. Nonetheless, because each school of thought in its own way saw intellectual creation as fundamentally a product of the larger society from which it emerged, neither elaborated a strong rationale for treating it as establishing private ownership interests.[15] Deeply influenced by these two ideologies, China falls behind all developed countries and many developing countries in the field of intellectual property protection. It is also not difficult to understand why most of Chinese did not know what were IPRs in 1980s.
Well, I am confident that this reply answers your question. More information about Chinese philosophies and other ideals that are involved in China's flourishing open source movement can be found below:
Paul Herbig's Working Papers [google.com]
A Paper on IP Rights in China, by Sheng Ding [rutgers.edu]
The Chinese Way with Money, an article from the Shanghai Star [chinadaily.com.cn]
I don't really like cinemas, and its just giving money to a cartel. I'll wait for the the DVD. I think in the meantime I'll just get the soundtrack, and make do with the book. Is it available in Adobe E-book format?
... because Bilbo (and Gollum) sometime behave like me when I try to stop smoking...
I was in China (Beijing to be exact) in May this year, and waddayaknow, they were selling DVD's of both The Two Towers AND The Return of The King on every streetcorner... of course when I actually got home to watch them it turned out to actually be some really old crappy movie I don't even remember the name of.. But the covers were very neatly done, could probably have fooled even a 4 year old.. Oh and they had a lot of movies for sale that to my knowledge havn't even been filmed yet.. Could it be they're using some kind of time machine???
Kinda ironic to read the banner ads on /. today "Lord of the rings - the two towers...only in theaters" - right above the story about LOTR being available on the street. Would slashdot lie to me??
"Dude, read the book...."
Can someone please explain this mentality to me?
The LotR fans and the Harry Potter fans seem to be on some sort of holy quest to rid the world of people that haven't "read the book" before seeing the movie.
I personally enjoyed watching FotR for the first time, having not read the book. I had no idea what was going to happen from scene to scene, and it really helped to draw me into the movie. This attitude that somehow seeing the movie without reading the book will rot your mind and ruin your life is just ridiculous.
There is a very good justifiable reason to purchase a full DVD even if you have a high quality DIVX ( I happen to have a nice copy of LOTR that has ...Property of the MPAA if you have Bought or rented this movie call 1800 blah blah blah... scrolling across the screen every 15 min.) But I still gave up my cash at the theatre and for the DVD. Why? Because it is an excellent movie and in this capitolistic society that is how we show support, appreciation, and further the chances of more really good movies being produced.
As for watching in a theatre or my home, each has advantages. In a theatre some one else must pick the gummi bears off the screen and the popcorn off the floor.. While the theatre has a larger screen then my home, it doesn't have a sofa, and doesn't allow liberal use of my cinematic enhancing "water" pipe .
There was an item on Channel 4's Big Breakfast (in the UK) a couple of years back, when DVDs had just started to become the de facto medium over here. It was a reasonably high-up copper in the Met, explaining how pirate DVDs aren't made to as high a quality as original DVDs, so the picture tends to fade over time. This was complete with example of faded movie.
So by the time I'd finished creasing on the floor with laughter, I wrote an e-mail to Channel 4 just asking "wtf?". It seems that a load of other people had too, because there was soon an apologetic controller (or may have been director) on BB.
She explained how they'd heard of this effect, and how although the copper hadn't actualy seen it in a DVD, he was willing to act as "expert witness". So they threw together a few special effects on the mixing desk, and bingo! One "pirate" "faded" "DVD".
Made me laugh, anyway.
NOOOO!
If Slashdot wants to be on the up-and-up on other news sources, inside sources tell me that LOTR:ROTK is going to be pirated some time next year. Let's post a discussion to see what everyone thinks about that!
anyone else tired of all the big hoopla crap about a movie getting pirated on usenet/kazaa/etc or sold on the streets. this is NOT news and i for one dont give a crap to read about the latest big release that hit the scene 2 months early. bah.
..the quality is terrible. I've seen Minority Report as a bootleg copy in Asia before it came to the cinema and it was a terrible experience. In Asia there are DVD's circulating which are copy from DVD, they are OK usually and those of the newest movies which should be avoided at any cost. I paid up to four dollars for those in Cambodia and I can certainly not recomend it..
bought last August in Beijing
it's a fake even if the cover is very well done
The movie is a cheap fantasy flick that noone has probably ever heard of.
Iron Fist
I somehow got a bootleg copy of Matrix before it was released on the big screen, and watched that very ugly VCD rip. I was blown away by the plot since I didn't know anything about the film beforehand, however since that day I've always regretted not to have seen it in a proper theatre to begin with.
I've stopped getting bootlegs ever since for this reason.
asia = piracy !! it's a fact not theory ! :P
..i am waiting until it's on big screen !..
anyway
All of the book stores worldwide already sell the official novels to the movie even before the movie started, will this pirating never stop. And btw. who is this Tolkien guy anyway, he must have seen a pirated version of the movie, can we sue him under the DMCA?
Ok here is the plan:
Arrest this JRR Tolkien and have him sued (also find out where these german guys who blatantly ripped off the Disney Snowwhite movie are they also have to be jailed in)
Secondly shut down every bookstore worldwide, there is information spread which can ruin the income of our valuable movies!
Hi
I've seen FotR many times, and I must admit than in the theater, it was something to experience. But it raises the question to know whether the filmmakers really did understand the book.
Okay, as a simple scientific, maybe I shouldn't give litterature lessons to others. Still, I think it's worth noting that the book was basically *not only* an adventure book. The characters had much more depth.
Take Aragorn. In the film he's a superhero; and I've seen in the trailer that even Eowyn was in love with him. What has this to do with the real Aragorn ?
He's growing old, he says that all what he does turns bad, and, above all, he's *alone*. Only Gandalf and Arwen can understand what matters for him, and they do not meet often. Aragorn has spent most of his life alone across the paths of middle-earth, dreaming of his love.
Aragorn is a universal character, it's the universal 'single man'. I mean, all you nerds here, don't you identify a bit with him ?
But, did hollywood understand that ? If yes, why did they put Arwen with Aragorn along the whole adventure (for that seems to be the case, in the trailers) ? Why did they choose an actor looking 25, when Aragorn should look be at the very last years of his youth ?
In fact, Hollywood believes that any adventure film should have a super hero, who should be a symbol of successfulness.
Of course, Aragorn is only one example; one could as well take Frodo, Gandalf... Only Boromir and Sam are well played, but they are easier to grasp. And I can't stand the corny scene with Sam trying to swim at the end of FotR. Finally, Iarwain, the most mysterious character of the book, is simply forgotten.
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
Well, it's not a big news. It's the same for every piece of software or thingies that have to be released. China is so famous about that =]
I've found more than a dozen films on DVD in China, for less than US$2.00 each in the last 9 months, that were available before the movie on screen and/or on DVD.
:) ...oh, and these are most always region free
Sometimes the quality is of a handheld DV camera...sometimes the subtitles are from another movie. Sometimes they are tagged as pre-release evals. They are always at least worth the $2.00.
The prices are higher in Beijing...Tianjin is best for price. They are off-street in Bejing. Not at all hard to find in Tianjin...try any of the music stores near the colleges.
Seems to me the studios should hook up with these guys and find a way so that the consumer can get releases sooner and for a better price
Does that mean I can play it on my C64 or NES?
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
[Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam]
;-) (when in rome..) This is THE movie I want to see. I almost want to fly back to the states to see it.
I haven't seen any LotR DVD's anywhere here. And yes, I do look and buy.
As for what movies ARE here.. Harry Potter 2 and Die Another Day showed up on the streets here the day after their release. I haven't been able to watch the DVD's yet cuz my laptop went belly up, but I did get to see a VCD of Harry Potter. It sucked.
As far as my intentions go, and I tell people here all the time, I will watch all of the movies back in the theaters in the US when I get back... if they're still on. I'm pretty sure the LotR:TT and Potter will be still there, but I doubt Die Another Day will, which makes me kind of sad.
People here can't understand the western facination with the "theater". People are always asking me what I miss most, and I tell them without evening thinking - the movies. They ask me, "why? You can get any movie for $1 right now and watch it at home!" Then I explain to them them the sheer size of the screen and the massive sound system. The theaters here suck. Very few people go to them. 5.1 surround sound systems run for $20 a pop so everybody has them. Home theaters are what they want.
Families just can't "go to the movies". A few family members maybe. Getting the family out would require the renting of a car or van.
Plus, I doubt Hollywood would release movies here. The average income is $50/month and they're not going to spend it on a movie when they have a huge family to feed.
Hollywood has nothing to worry about here. They're not losing money here because they don't release movies here. Westerners buy a few DVD's because they can't see the movies here. Now, if AMC put a nice big screen here in the middle of Saigon - it would be another story.
They're a bunch of cry-babies if you ask me.
I've seen pirated movies before, and they're generally pretty lousy. I saw a copy of Attack of the Clones that was filmed from the back of a theater, complete w/ people walking in front, coughing, etc. So you lose the magical experience of seeing it in the theater ( just make sure you catch a late show @ a good theater a week or so after it opens, so you don't have to deal w/ screaming brats, fat guys who make the armrests dissapear when they sit down, and obnoxious teenage jocks whose parents will sic the law on you when you kick their teeth in ), and you deal w/ crappy quality. no thanks, I'll just fantasize about the movie until it comes out.
mmm...hot elf chicks...balrogs with flaming whips...
even better, hot elf chicks w/ whips...
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
So.. they're selling counterfit DVDs in China, and this may hurt the film industry...
Yeah right... I can't even be bothered to leave the house to buy food...
Do you really think I'm gonna leave the house, drive to the airport, fly to china, learn to speak chinese, and buy a DVD... all to save 16 hours downloading it from Kazaa;)
What ever happened to Za Moosey?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Americans should also think of changing their popular emergency phone number to something else... After all, 911 is pretty shocking, isn't it? People nowadays are so sensitive. I suggest 912, so it matches the Simpsons (watch the "stonemasons" episode) idea.
"I think it would be a good idea!"
Gandhi, about Internet Security
Haha, I just have to add my 2 cents on this, since I like this story.
/. and scooped this one by a year.....
My caucasian friend went to China last year. While there he picked up a bunch of DVDs. He was excited to see that they already had both Two Towers and Return of the King on DVD, as well as Spiderman, which had been out not long in the theaters. He eagerly bought them all at grossly inflated (for pirate dvds) prices, and when he brought him home we popped them in the dvd player together. The Two Towers turned out to be a video of what appeared to be maybe a SCA reunion or something. It was a bunch of guys riding around in goofy costumes on horses. I couldn't stop laughing. He then popped in Spiderman, and as the movie started, the dramatic title of Earth Vs. The Spider came up on the screen. He didn't even bother taking his dvds with him as he left.
Haha, they sure had nice cases though. That's the key for the pirates: nice, believable cases.
I'm sure the exec knew that it wasn't actually the TT too, he just wanted to spread some FUD about the evil pirates.
Man, I could have gotten my story posted on
Such situation is quite common in countries without strong copyright law or its proper enforcement.
Say, in some ex-USSR states you can buy an upcoming blockbuster months before the official world premier. Often they are outright stolen from clipping board and lack some scenes and visual effects. I recall Casper the Firendly Ghost without the actual ghosts rendered, and Waterworld without the shark hunt scene being offered on street markets.
Quite possibly it can be the case with The Two Towers as well.
Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
it's like if i made a webpage that said g. bush shoots up heroin 3am every morning, and the next day someone published it as first page news..
Shh. You'll be sued for libel in Australia if you're not careful.
> Most of what's labeled as piracy nowadays is simply acting
> in accordance with the laws of information physics at possible
> detriment to the financial standing of companies that have a
> vested interest in maintaining the status quo with regards to
> content-centric business models.
That's the most absurd statement I have heard since "Information wants to be free".
How is that any different from saying:
"Most of what's labeled as burglary nowadays is simply acting in accordance with the laws of mechanical physics at possible detriment to the financial standing of companies that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo with regards to inventory-centric business models."
In other words, you are using big, important-sounding words to say "since it is inherently possible to steal, it's not really theft".
Just because information has no physical reality, and just because it can be copied at virtually no cost, that does not mean that the information has no value.
IMO that's the key point that most anti-copyright proponents miss: Information Has Value. If it didn't, nobody would want to steal it.
Secondarily, and just as important: Information costs time and money to produce.
Third: Companies and individuals often spend time and money producing Information in order to sell it and make a profit.
Fourth: There is nothing inherently evil about that.
When you acquire something that has value without compensating the owner, that is Stealing. When you do it in violation of the current law, whether you agree with that law or not, that is Illegal.
I think he means its his first submission that made it..but he might just have been stupid enough to think that he was the first post on here..and that would make him well..trollish..
"I feel it is my duty to look at the porn that kids download before I delete it, to be sure what it is."--School Admin
...to in a crowded cinema with kids kicking the seats from behind, the stench of popcorn fried in rancid oil and chairs that ensure you can't feel your legs after 3 hours. It's not the perfect environment for a film *that* long.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I do get it - such as it is - but a joke is better when you don't mess it up, don't you think. If you'd put `in communist russia` or `in the soviet union`, i'd not have said `yeah, thats good, but it would be even funnier if you'd described the country less well`.
Read story, call friend in shanghai who knows a lot about the scene there, says that TRAILERS COLLECTION has been available pre-burned for quite awhile. He doesn't know anything about a release there. Says if it is available to please call him back :)
yeah I'm in suspense right now waiting for my two towers download to finish off of imesh.
P.S. I don't get the title to this article.
Humm.. Lets press our CD's in china, so we can make that extra 35 cents per cd. And then cry foul when somebody who makes 1.25 per day takes a copy home and presses a few extra. That will give us more ammo to cry to congress that we must control every americans computer, tv, and toaster. Even though we KNEW that it would be pirated if we pressed it in Asia.
I'm mad, not so much as the movie was copied to DVD before its release it the theater, but at the movie executives who want to take away my right to watch movies with my PC.
The execs say that there is problem with people copying movies. But illegal movie (and music) distribution is happening inside the industry not in my home. But their solution is to take away my abilities and regulate me.
That makes no sense. The executives need to worry about their own folks instead of trying to pass laws that make it wrong for me to rip my movie or cd to my harddrive.
My friend recently came back from a visit to China where she bought one of those pirated Two Towers-DVD:s. Upon placing it in her DVD-player she discovered it was actually LOTR 1. The cover was an authentic-looking Two Towers one, however.
Man oh man, I think I'd pay a buck to give that movie back.
That the writer of this article infact was looking at the *GAME*, the two towers. http://www.nforce.nl/site/nfoclear.php?id=17475 That and other two tower games have been released for quite a while... I suspect the writer of the article was a bit confused :P
It annoys me a little that they decide to write that article without actually *testing* it themselves... i'd be interested in the results.
This story comes up with the ad for the new LoTR trailer advertisement, with the tagline: "Only in Theatres Dec 18th!"
:P )
You people who disabled ads don't know what you're missing (I "donated", I just didn't bother to turn the ads off
ye, the piracy in China is really an "industry": they have product manager to decide the product line, they have mature resale system, customers can return the damaged disc back, no question asked, (better than most legal licensed shop), all subtitles are localized with damn good translation ...... to mention just a few.
...... you know, people in China can not afford the price of licensed copy. the average incoming of citizens is about 300 USD/M. (i know that's not a excuse for piracy, don't argue on this)
:-), without piracy, people can not even watch some native movies, just because they are not allowed by the propaganda dept. of CCP. there are only about 10 western movies can be imported into China in one year, several month later than its show time
some of you may already knew, this industry is acquiesced by the government, this industry can help the selling of the VCD/DVD player machine, which can bring more taxes
but the price is not the point, the point is the censorship. without piracy, people have no way to watch the western movies (not only HOLYWOOD, but also European movies, which is a lot more better than HW), even if they'd like to pay for (like me
in China, the TV and the news paper and most other offical/legal publications are all bullsh1t, you just can not live without piracy.
I haven't read the books in 15 years and plan to avoid them until I've seen Return of the King.
Friends of mine who have read them recently spend half the film thinking "Well, that's different, and this line of dialogue wasn't quite right."
I just want to watch great films for what they are.
My Journal
I don't think missing is the right word, after all, does anyone really miss him?
The company I work for has offices in Shanghai and people who travel there bring back pirated DVDs. It is not unusual that the label on the case says something different than what is actually in it. (You won't know it's the Sound of Music instead of LOTR until the seller is long gone)
:)
Since the exec did not buy it, we'll never know.
Now, I need to find out who's going over there next...
8 bits...that's some pretty mighty impressive compression! Damn all who complain about petty things like grainy pixels!
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
I work in Shenzhen (north of Hong Kong) and I've seen the movie out for just over a week now on some of the outside stalls.
Okay, put it this way. I'm flying into New Zealand next week to see the LOTR:TT. I'm not about to watch it on a VCD.
But imagine the temptation. Every evening after work, I think, tonight I could see the two towers. It could be tonight. It's tough I tell you.
"Teachers leave us kids alone
...I might care.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
A discussion on LOTR is where the trolls are on topic !
This is not a signature.
DVDs cost about between 7 and 8 RMB; the exchange rate is 8.24 RMB to a dollar. So, the going price is under 90 cents.
Buying such DVDs is risky. You don't know what you'll get. I.e, the "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" DVD turned out to be a "cam", with terrible sound. The "Spiderman" DVD looked like a copy of the comercial DVD (at least I think "Spiderman" has been released; it certainly displayed well on a laptop). One movie I saw that was over a year old was a copy of the screener DVD (given to those who pre-screen movies for reviews, or for theatre owners).
> I personally want to wait for the movie to hit the > big screen...it's all about the suspense. What do > others think?
That many people here in Slashdot had better get a life, and learn that The Lord of the Rings is not the ultimate form of literary expression, and that there are far better movies too.
There was a lot of music swapping between GI's going on back then.
In downtown Taipei, you could find counterfeit albums for 25-50 cents. The rule of thumb was to listen to it once for QC. Verify that there weren't too many scratches, skips or pops. If it passed muster, record it and throw it away. Let your buddies record from your tape.
After playing one of those LPs 4 or 5 times you could see a rooster tail of wax trailing the needle! At that point any resemblance to music was purely coincidental.
I wonder if you have to clean the laser on your DVD player after playing one of those discs?
End of the greenback
.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Pop-cultural volume-setting rule: always amp any public situation in order to drown out the crowds of screaming girls who'll be there to see John, Paul, George, and Ringo. If you don't plan for a horde of crazed fans going hoarse screaming, you're only planning for failure. (Note to Miriam Makeba concert producers: hysterical fans are not going to threaten to drown out respected African folk singers.)
I'll see this in the theater, I love the event of it when it's actually a very decent movie. But you're right, the first movie was loud enough to sterilize the mice living in my theater's floorboards. Even the people who get a perfect copy in this Asian market are going to go home and crank the home theater system up to rumble the fittings on their bathroom sink. Loud must be better, right?
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
There has been no sign of the TTT VCD on any of the VCD/SVCD release sites, like http://www.vcdquality.com and http://www.isonews.com nor on any of the Usenet newsgroups. I tend to believe that these reports are untrue. Episode 2 was out and all over the place 2-3 weeks before the actual theater premiere. The Two Towers, however, is nowhere to be seen except in reportedly in China in news releases and anecdotes only.
I don't believe it.
That episode of SP was funny, with the porno of LOTR, heehehehhe
damn SP rocks.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
lets thing logicaly about this one. IF this was in asia 2 weeks ago THEN a pirating group would release it here by now IF a group released it here, they probably would not release it as an iNTERNAL but try to get prestige by releasing it FIRST (and even if they did an iNTERNAL it would leak out within days) IF a group has already released it here then it would be on http://www.nforce.nl/ or ever www.isonews.com :P
BUT its not there, which means it doesnt exist. some are saying that they have seen it on p2p but NOTHING gets on p2p that has not been released by a group. (nothing BIG like this atleast).
And last but not least, if it was rlsed i would know about it, and i dont.
just think of it, IF the movie is on P2P why has no one released it yet? just because there is a two_towers.avi in the search box doesnt mean its the actual movie
When you acquire something that has value without compensating the owner, that is Stealing. When you do it in violation of the current law, whether you agree with that law or not, that is Illegal.
:
I'd use the verb benefit, else, well, you can acquire immaterials good but if you simply don't use these, you're just using your hard disc as a dust bin.
When RIAA/MPAA will notice that the loss they consider is actually lower as their estimation because people politely accepted to be "given" mp3/divx but just don't like these and don't use these, this is not really theft, but rather some potential publicity for the labels.
I however agree with the term illegal : the problem is the law but not really the philosophy behind.
Of course, I consider that any mentally-equilibrated people who enjoy some "pirated" stuff will finally buy it unless it is not distributed a decent way.
I'll take the Star Wars 4-6 example
I will only buy these if they come alone in DVD (I mean I *refuse* to pay for episodes 1-3 which will dramatically increase the bundle price as these were more expensive to create -despite the obvious lower entertainment they are- and also will still generate big bucks because of their lower age).
Trolling using another account since 2005.
I don't think this story is a lie. It sounds to me the movie studios have just as much problem protecting their copyrighted material inside their own organization. Why else would we get these movies released from illegitimate sources before the movie even comes out?
...and they want a censorship and control system (aka DRM) placed on the general public? It sounds to me that won't solve their copyright infringement problems at all. More likely the "pirates" will steal the footage before any DRM control is placed on it. Moreover they will equally be able to steal or aquire all the software / equipment / DRM keys needed to make their content appear with valid watermarks. The only ones who won't be able to publish are the legitimate everyday person who has been making "intellectual property" since the beginning of history.
Maybe congress needs to pass a law to increase the "security" of movie studios. (and hopefully put them out of business in the process) ;-)
I go to the theaters for any movie is because their screen is bigger than mine. I have the surround sound and great resolution on my computer but hands down a 60 ft screen is awsome. As soon as HDTV projectors drop to an affordable price I will get one and NEVER return to the theater again. And I imagine many of of the populus will begin doing also. The information age is finnaly settling into its own and businesses are starting to realize how big this change is. 100% of the media industry has to re-learn everything it knows about how is manages itself. It has been ignoring East Asia because it never had that market to loose. All our markets are turning from product based to service based. How good the movie of the week is does not matter anymore. How good the service gets that movie to me is what matters.
Where's the Amazon.com zshops link for these street vendors? Ebay? C'mon -- don't they know what kind of market they are missing?
Lots of petrified grits
Suspense is a Hollywood created feeling used for marketing.
That's what I'd do (if I ever bought a DVD from a street guy, which I haven't yet).
Maybe there is a use for those portable dvd players after all...
Interactive Visual Medical Dictionary
Haven't you read the book????
"Cry Cry LOTR at the theater only! my TV is small! Divx is poor quality and these thoughts are original!"
Hmn.... it appears you're stupid. Not only have you never watched a good DVD rip (1GB+) but there's no reason why everybody who's buying DVDs like candy can't afford a kick-butt home theater. You just gotta hold your wallet, kids. I'm also going to guess that youre the type that rents an apartment with vague hopes of owning someday, and you're secretly unhappy with the car you drive. Let me help you with some consumer abstinence math.
Avg price of a DVD = $20
Avg amount of DVDs people have = 30*
What you've squandered on DVD's = $600
But you also own two rare gay boxed sets of something, so lets add another $100. Put all that garbage on Half.com. Hopefully you have some rare stuff to make up for those depreciated pop hits.
A movie outing ($8tix x 2 x food). Lets pretend you can contain yourself for three months, which usually means about $150. Queue up some divx on that 56k connection while you're having your morning donut. You'll have a movie in 1-3 days. I'd say order one for $1 from hollywood but they're not offering that service yet. Ho-hum.
How much did you waste on a DVD player? Eh, ballpark $200. How about those super hi def cables for your 19" tv champ? Ok $220.
How much can you sell that shitty TV on your job's bulletin board? Maybe $40. SOLD!
700+150+220+40 = Nice Bigscreen TV* for watching Divx DVD rips. Contain yourself for another six months and you might have 6-channel sound system. And maybe, just maybe, you accidentally wander into a furniture store and buy nice leather seating for you and your friends that makes going to the theater feel like sitting on wood planks. But I don't want to give you or your paychecks that much credit.
Avg price of a nice 50" projection TV = $1,100**
(* rough avg based on my friends stashes)
(** )
So, before any of you fledgelings grab me by the throat let me also add this statement. Wake the fuck up. Things are getting CHEAPER, not more expensive. You can buy computers for next to nothing. Manufacturing processes for everything have evolved so much over the last few years. Why do you think chinese stores can sell movies at $1 and still profit. "Oh it hurts hollywood". Eh, senor dickhead I'll have you know that Jim Carrey was just paid $30 million to do another movie. THIRTY MILLION. There's where your money is going - to the rich actors and the richer people who pay them. In real life, thirty million can retire ten city blocks of people for life. And thats just one movie and ten come out every month.
So. Help scale the industry. Stop feeding hollywood. Let them slow down. Let the prices drop. Then support them again when their prices make sense. Or keep your blinders on.
It's all about the suspense. I saw this file on kazaa many times. But, I don't think piracy will be a big deal. Simply because the crowd this movie attracts seem to have the same ideals as the author who wrote this article.
I never understood why all my friends were going for the DVD's and video tapes. Movies like LOTR (or Gladiator, or the 5th Element, or..) are way too big for a television screen.
I think it's safe to say he smoked, albeit not cigarettes.
Harry Potter is in it also so it's based on the 5th Harry Potter novel which was also available in China before anywhere else.
It's the diary of his nephew Jimmy (president of his high school's "Dungeons and Dragons" club) who is camping out in line with the rest of the dweebs with no life to be the first to see the Two Towers.
Filthy Critic
I don't know too much about Asian pirating, save that it happens. What I do know is that I won't dishonor the makers of the LotR trilogy by skimping on big screen viewing or DVD purchase.
I bought he special edition DvD, eager to take a look at the documentaries on it. After spending several hours watching them all with rapt attention, it became clear to me that this movie was no mere cash cow(despite the fact that it may well turn out to be in the end) to the makers. It was an almost religious experience in bringing to life a true classic. The sheer attention to detail and the massive scope of creating this trilogy are staggering and humbling.
Personally, I would never think to pirate any piece of this trilogy and any lesser rendition that cuts out the detail of the movie is both an insult to the work of the makers of LotR and an insult to one's self, as there is so much to miss if you pay a buck to get some small, fuzzy rendition of this masterpiece.
Don't cheat yourself and don't cheat the people that made this trilogy possible. Ignore any pirated media dealing with LotR.
Kalen D'arrie
Actually, what was available was "King of Circular Objects: Multiple Battlements" and not the two towers at all.
We all KNOW that Two Towers will rake in the money. They can whine and cry all they want. It will be a smash hit!
Spiderman, Fellowship of the Ring, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, etc...
They ALL did extremely well and several even broke records.
Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
Shameful! Shocking! The movie is pirated even before it's released here! How could such a thing happen? Why, the only organization who has the film is the studio itself. Hmmmmm...
This could have been accomplished either of two ways:
These are the only ways that I can think of (reply with your own ideas, please!), and in either case, the piracy is due to the studio's own negligence and/or delusions of invulnerability. Bottom line: There's no way they can pin this on Joe Consumer and his tricked out VCR/DVD rig, or Joe Geek with his Linux box running DeCSS.
Perhaps we should believe them, and help them to understand where their problems really lie. Because I bet they're too thick to figure it out for themselves.
I'm anti-piracy, pro-fair-use, and anti-bullshit. Just like 98% of everyone else out there.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
I'll take 1024!
I got mine on EBAY already - haven't you?
Click here to post a bid!
if (!sig) { printf("Signature Unavailable\n"); }
(this actually pertains to LoTR...)
In Ancient Greece, the theatre was a main form of entertainment. What's particularily interesting about it is that there was very little live action on stage and much of the story was told by a narrator or the chorus. And yet people attended.
The most surprising aspect was that people attended despite knowing the play by heart (and there weren't many plays that were performed - most were variations of some classic play). If anything, people attended to experience a new rendition or telling a story and to enjoy the experience of the theatre.
What does this have to do with LOTR? Simple: people will still pay to see the movie because the story is good (many people already know this since they have read the books), the movie appears to be of high quality (as was the first one) and the experience of attending the theatre is still somewhat enjoyable. Or, if you rent or buy, you will get your money's worth with a DVD (especially if you have a home theatre).
Personally, I think Hollywood has done an Ok job of keeping the cost of DVDs low and quick to market for sale/rent. In the many CD stores I've visited lately, the cost of a CD can be as much as a DVD (the only albums that are cheap are the latest pop albums).
IMO, the only time online 'piracy' or VCD-camcorder recordings will affect a movie is when it sucks or is marginal. These methods act more like a preview system - I won't pay for a movie that sucks but I'll definetly pay for a movie that I discover I love but never heard of. It's also worth noting that this is free viral marketing for Hollywood so, as long as the movies are good, the price is reasonable, they sell a high quality product and the experience is stil enjoyable (i.e. NO stupid DRM to prevent me from watching on PC), then they have little to worry about.
I've seen three movies in the last year ("Phantom Menace", "Road to Perdition" (yeah, I know - wife picked it), and "Jonah: Veggie Tales" (daughter picked it)). All were really loud. Oddly, the Jonah film was so loud that my ears truly hurt, and I had to cover my (2.5yo) daughter's ears in scenes. I got to see much of the audience wincing in pain at the louder parts.
What's worse is that all three of the movies have been horribly out of focus. Sometimes, the little slide-show thing they run before the show is fine, but the movie I paid for has always been like a visit to the eye doctor.
Add to this the rudeness of the other patrons (turn off the phone - you're not that important) and the incredible shrinking popcorn bucket, and I've been seeing fewer movies every year.
Suddenly, a large TV hooked up to a computer and a DVD makes much more sense: free popcorn, sharp picture (usually), control over the volume, ability to stop the show, and the ability to kick out rude patrons. Every $30 (two tickets and popcorn) movie we DON'T see is money that can go to the home version. Yeah, we don't see them as big or as early, but I'm fed up.
Um, why do I pay 5 times that for blank media?
how is this possible?
What? No comments from Ryu2 yet about teen prostitudes in China?
Well, I don't believe anyone who really appreciates movies would want these. It's a similar mentality to those hordes of 14year old "gimmes" who download tons and tons of mp3s and DivXs because they can, and it's somehow "cool" to have it before anyone else. Half the time, they don't even watch them!
Did you ever stop to consider where that attitude might come from?
Who gives the elite screening copies of films months prior to the "unwashed masses?" Who releases a movie on one continent, then waits several months before releasing it on another? Who has encoded region-specific information on the current medium of their consumer-grade product to facilitate the continuation of this sort of behavior even in the digital age and the age of globalism?
Who has done everything they can, using everything from marketing to outright market manipulation, to turn time, and the date one can see a movie, into a status symbol so large the lemmings all run to the same theaters on opening night and cheerfully stand in line in sub-zero temperatures in the hopes of getting one of the few seats available?
Hollywood, that is who.
Which is why I have no problem with people who choose to time-shift their entertainment from the schedule the media moghuls are trying to lay down to their own schedule...even if that means timeshifting the film from six months in the future to the present, then going out and purchasing the DVD (or going to the theater, or what have you) when the opportunity finally arrives, months later and according to the industry's timetable.
The industry created this time-sensitive demand, and have systematically hyped and developed the sense of presige that getting to see something earlier than others seems to provide so many. Now they can enjoy reaping precisely what they've sown.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
Username taken, please choose another one.
I got the first movie in Shanghai in June. It was the preview version of the movie, and it looked like it was filmed directly off the screen. It also had scrolling through the movie periodically a message asking for you to contact the MPAA if this was an illegal copy! :)
It simply cannot be helped, especially in China, there is someone always looking to make a buck there, and it can be a foriegn idea that they should owe some mystical allegiance to an american company to protect their profits when they can make some money. Besides it is not like these guys are rolling in the dough from copying and it is also not like they would be selling ANY copies of the movie for $29.99 in China.
I am not saying it is legal, I am saying, it is just something they will have to deal with and accept.
"Psst! Eight Bits Gets You "The Two Towers" In China"
Now that's piracy! Huh? Huh?
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
Worst one I've ever been to was a showing of Phantom Menace - there was a blown midrange driver in the center section, so to make up for it, they turned up the overall volume... resulting in bass that could literally shake you out of your seat.
Remember, if it's too loud, you're not too old, you're just going to be going deaf by age 30. Exposure to 85 dB SPL for 8 hours will cause permanent damage. 95 dB SPL, you get 2 hours. 105 dB SPL (average level in the middle of a concert venue), you get about 20 minutes. 115 dB SPL (in the pit) and you get about 1 song (3-5 minutes). 120 dB SPL... dancing right in front of the speakers... you're causing permanent non-repairable, life-lasting damage every second you're there.
-T
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The low price offered on the street is representitive of what would be a fair price to those in the area. Considering the lower cost of living, lower wages in China, it seems like a very fair price.
Does anyone think that someone who would buy a low quality dupe would pay full price to see it in the theatre? Maybe...I did not go see "Blair Witch" in the theatres until I saw a crappy VCD first.
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
They'll just come out with a Special Edition later, and you'll have to pay again.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I was offered this in Shanghai some 3 months back and couldn't resist. Turned out to be some random 2nd rate fantasy film. Just wish I'd bought the Titanic II we were offered :)
Apparently, most people don't realize what the movie theater situation is like in China. They don't exist for all practical purposes. The government caps the number of foreign films permitted into theaters to 10 per year. Then, all of these films are dubbed into Mandarin and released months later. I was in China for several months this past spring and they were just getting the first Harry Potter then. For those people who like to watch movies in their original language (or those people who are living abroad for a while) the rampant piracy is a godsend.
I remember I was over there when both AOTC and Spider-man came out and you could find videocammed copies of new releases and DVD quality copies (Oscar evaluation copies) of others. I had a sweet copy of LOTR on DVD in April. This piracy is allowed because the government doesn't want to actually refuse people the opportunity to watch the movies but they also don't want to allow them outright either. With this situation they can crack down on some store if they feel like it and say it is because of some 'piracy issues.'
I'm quite sure that there actually is a copy of the Two Towers out there though.
Hahahahahaha, what?
For titles like lord of the ring, i'd rather wait until they hit the big screen. for a couple of reasons: 1. The sound, the picture quality 2. By paying for the ticket, you support movie production.
Eight Bits Gets You "The Two Towers" In China
8bits doesn't seem like a lot of bandwidth...
I found "Star Wars 2002" (actually dune), "Toy Story 3" (knick knack), and "Home Alone 13" (don't remember) in Malaysia.
Yep, these pirates are good. Be afraid Hollywood!
A quick Google for "whirly pop popcorn" turned up a bunch of them, esp. at Carson Pirie Scott stores and a few others. Goes for about $30 new.
I can usually make popcorn in the same time as the microwave, although sometimes I go a little lower in the heat and take longer to get bigger popping (4 minutes instead of 2). The recommended amount of oil results in a popcorn that's pretty low-fat compared to microwave - almost like hot-air popping. Add more oil during cooking or pour on the butter later. Other tricks include keeping the popcorn in the freezer to preserve the moisture, as popcorn slowly dries out.
One bonus is that you can make subtle cool new flavors very easily. Popcorn with olive oil is very good! Sunflower oil can stand higher temperatures before going to smoke, and has its own flavor. You can sprinkle garlic powder, lemon pepper salt, Mrs. Dash, or even cayenne right on the results. (BTW, it takes more oil for the sprinkled stuff to stick. Most potato and corn chips, for example, are dripping in oil simply to make the salt stick.) If you like salt, buy real popcorn salt or make your own in the blender - it's a finer powder than regular table salt and sticks pretty well.
You have to add a LOT of butter to get the same flavor as the microwave stuff, but that comes with it's own story; check "popcorn disease butter flavor" on Google. The chemical that makes the butter flavor has screwed up the lungs of a bunch of the factory workers. Not saying that microwave popcorn is bad for your lungs, but it was interesting when I heard it on the radio a month ago.
Also interesting to know: most places that sell "comfort food", such as popcorn, cookies, etc. have their ventilation set to distribute the smell everywhere on purpose. I was going through a Sears store past a snack stand one day with a friend who designed HVAC for large buildings and he told me that it's given almost the same priority as moving the warm and cold air around.
Many parenting sources (I'm a dad) recommend no popcorn for children under 3 since it's a choking hazard, but we're occasionally giving it to our (2.5yo) daughter as a treat. Last week she sat through a two hour movie without moving anything but her hand to the bucket and to her mouth - over and over again.
Ok, so I'm gonna rant (on topic). Movie companies should STFU when it comes to copyright--I'd much rather pay my $7.50 for a movie ticket or $19.99 for the *real* DVD with nice packaging, features, etc. than spend one measly buck on a crappy copy of some idiot's video of the inside of a theater. $1 buys you "Mystery Pirate Theatre 3000" with talking shadows, crying babies, cell phones beeping, and that annoying sound of the heavy petting in the back row. Not to mention the crappy sound quality.
The only GOOD thing about the pirated copy is the fact that it has no commercials!! Isn't the idea of going to the theater supposed to be better than television? Why should I pay to watch advertisements? Next thing you know, Eudora will send me a bill for all the ads I've been subjected to.
Damn. I missed my lithium today.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
The fact that the guy didn't spend the $1 to buy the DVD is more proof that it's a story that's been made up in an attempt to bolster the cause for movie studios to clamp down on these egregious acts! If the guy saw a copy he certainly would have a bought a copy and then had someone look it over in an attempt to determine its origin. It really stinks of FUD and will no doubt be used to sway senators and congressman when it's time to vote on legislation to prevent this from happening in all areas in the delivery of entertainment media.
http://tinyurl.com/3t236
On a recent business trip to China, I got a copy of this DVD in Shanghai (Yes, it was $1 US.)
Since I'm not a big LOTR fan, it sat on a shelf for several weeks until a friend noticed it and went nuts. I gave it to him to take home, and as this was a couple months ago, the details are a bit fuzzy now.
In any case, it was NOT the "Two Towers" that you'd expect. The paper insert "cover" that came with it was a carefully Photoshopped/Gimped image that was based on a scene from the first movie. However, the contents of the DVD were some 1981 horror/fantasy film of a similar title (can't remember, but he looked it up on IMDB.)
What is surprising is that they would go to such lengths. In the Shanghai night markets, all DVDs are 8 RMB, or $1 US, unless they are accompanied by the full plastic packaging/insert, and then they are 24 RMB, or $3 US. It's not uncommon for the paper insert, the DVD silkscreen, and the actual contents of the DVDs to be from three separate films. So these guys are really just pushing plastic for a (very small) profit. That someone would have spent the time to dummy up something for "Two Towers" specifically is unusual.
Babies are cute because they have to be.
It might be indistinguishable on your 23" tv, but on my 110" screen (fp), the difference is obvious and great. Not to mention the differences in sound quality.
it's all about the suspense Suspense? Have you not been inundated with Lord of the Rings video games/books/comics/cartoons/etc. since you were a kid? I have, and I know the story like the back of my hand. There's no suspense for me.
I lived in Shanghai. The DVD stand right in front of Starbucks I went to was trying to sell me LoTR 1,2,3 and "4!" Also, he has Harry Potter 1,2,3,4 and "5!" Seriously, no joking.
Seems to me that Tolkein's works cronicle the victory of Good over Evil. Watching a STOLEN copy of something like that would seem to indicate some serious moral damage in the viewer, yes?
Theft is a sin in all the great religions for a reason, you know.
My Uncle lives in China, and this has been like this for a while. DVD's of movies always come out way before the release date of the movie. I think this just got more attention because of the extreme popularity of the movie.
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
Perhaps, perhaps not. My girlfriend is from Shanghai and there are a lot of movies out there that you can get that haven't even popped into Kazaa yet... done on DVD with Chinese subtitling even.
Also, while this might be used as an arguement against piracy, their main battle is against the filesharing services, which have nothing to do with this particular case.
Sometimes they clue in and give you good commercials though. I've found a lot of the ones in the theatre to be funny, or at least have effects.
Commercials on TV often suck because they're repetetive and thus irritating. Having a commercial in a theatre that makes me laugh (seeing it for the first time) is a good thing to me
The movie has already been screened in Indonesia (a country know for high levels of piracy). The only ounce of truth this news story could hold is if the copy this so called "exec" saw on his travels was a cam/ts from a screening in Indonesia.
:)
Again, as someone mentioned before i highly doubt this story is genuine as if it was genuinely available on bootleg it would have totally suffocated the internet already.
If it's out, trust me, you'd know about it. Don't believe the media.
DVD's cost anywhere between US$1 to US$6, depending on how familiar you are and how good you are at bargaining. If a film has been released on DVD or LD, then it is most likely a copy of the Hong Kong DVD/LD. This means no extras, making of, etc., which for some reason does not seem to be in much demand in the asian market.
If the film is only in theatrical release, then it is either a copy of a promo tape (in which case it will have hilariously ironic messages about an 800 number to report piracy scrolling across the screen), a pre-release (it will have the hh:mm.frame id on the bottom), a copy shot in an empty theater, or a copy shot in a theater during a showtime.
The PROC film board (I don't know the official name) limits the number of imported films to ten per year. Theoretically it's to prevent the local film industry from getting clobbered, but as a practical thing it makes it easy to censor politically incorrect films without having to single them out.
In addition to DVDs, Video CDs are quite common (probably even more common coz they're cheaper). Most VCD copies are put on two disks, some long shows take three. The Chinese Govt. tried to support the Super-VCD format, but DVD beat it handily.
Also, what would be funny is if it was the 2 towers animated movie(anyone remember that one?). That would be terrible, yet funny.
A friend of mine went to ShenZhen (a small city in China, right next to Hong Kong) during the summer, and he saw piraters selling the Two Towers on DVD! When he picked it up, he saw Tom Cruise's face on the cover....
My fiance and I just got back from Beijing, a few weeks ago. While there, I was offered DVD's of both the new Harry Potter and the Two Towers. In the name of, ummm, research, I bought both.
Both DVDs were actually just copies of the last movie in the series (the Philosopher's Stone and Fellowship of the Rings) with fake cover cards. The quality of Harry Potter was fine, although it didn't have the DVD menus or bonus material. Just the movie. Fellowship of the Rings was a straight dupe of the 2-disk widescreen addition (not the newer platinum edition).
I paid 15 RMB ($2 USD) for Harry Potter and 20 RMB ($2.5 USD) for the Fellowship.
Since the "Industry Exec" didn't bother to check the contents. There's really know way of knowing what was on those disks.
Again, the source in the article didn't buy the VCD and check to see if it was an actual copy of The Two Towers. In other words, the dope saw some CD-cases with a jacket-cover that claimed the content was LOTR:TTT. People routinely get fooled by VCD vendors with fake movies.
All signs point to bullshit.
Klerck was responcible for that. Klerck is a well known troll who enjoys getting people panties in a twist. He likes baiting Slashdotters and used to hang out at Shacknews until he got banned for life.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Here I thought that this was going to be about China's development of an incredible new video compression codec...
Dave Storrs
I did buy one of those "the 2 tower" bootleg tape.
Well, inside there was this ridiculous techno kung fu movie.
I didnt watch it till the end so ridiculous it was. The white guy, the chick and the black bad ass were ridiculous in their latex outfits, wearing sunglasses in obscure scenes of insane stunts.
The only thing in common with the lotr movie was the big 2 in the title.
Well said!
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
To check Kazaa and download one of these copies, I know waiting for the big screen experience will be worth it. I saw the first twice in theaters before I downloaded a copy (yeah yeah, you can take that with as many grains of salt as you wish.)
I travel to Shanghai (and beyond) fairly frequently. I have seen a number of movies that were available from street vendors prior to their cinematic release. Many of them appeared to be recorded off of the screen by a decent video camera (based on the relatively unpleasant quality of the recording), some of them were of higher quality but NONE of them were very good and I did not enjoy watching any of them because of this. It would be like downloading an awesome, not-yet-released recording by your favorite artist but getting it from an audio stream aimed at 14.4 modems...yuck! I have no doubt that the film was available from street vendors as stated (pirated material of all sorts is commonly available just about anywhere in China...Photoshop 7 is less than $1, an XL Northface gortex jacket with thermal liner is $35, etc...).
I have an LCD projector and a 11'x 8' silverscreen in my basement.
give me a DVDrip and popcorn and i couldn't be happier - who wants to pay to go to a movie theatre anyway.
haha, who's the dumbfuck moderator that rated the parent post 'overrated'? damn, you're a waste of sentient life
On the bright side, this does prove that you don't need DECSS to pirate movies. On the dark side, I'm not much into the idea of pirating a movie even before it's publicly available.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
When you acquire something that has value without compensating the owner, that is Stealing.
Really? I have a small collection of DVDs. I frequently loan them to my friends. Are they stealing? If not, why is it ok for me to lend them the DVD, but not ok for me to lend them only the information that resides on the DVD?
The problem with our current laws (and the way laws appear to be going) is that they fail to acknowledge that ANY use of pure information requires copying of that information, and all copying seems like it's going to be made illegal. There are all sorts of "fair use" things that you can do with a physical object that are ruled right out when you're talking about "just the information". I can borrow a book from a library, but I can't get any rights (even temporary) to read that book online, and that pisses me off. When I try to move into the online world, I've actually lost some freedom, which seems like a giant step backwards.
You're right, it's not evil.
It's inherently, mind-bogglingly, numbingly STUPID, and it's this sort of thinking that perpetuates the problem.
Here's a business model for you, let me know what you think:
I'm going to create a product that has Value.
It'll cost time and money to produce it.
My product is called Magic Lemonade. It comes in a glass.
It's cool and refreshing! It will have more cool and refreshing value than any other lemonade.
I propose that our Company spend time and money in order to produce and sell our
Magic Lemonade at a Profit!
Here's the magic part, and why it's so cool: After I sell a glass to someone, they can push a button on the glass and make another one! An exact copy of the first, just as tasty and thirst-quenching! And they can push that button just as many times as they want. And better yet, all the new glasses have their own buttons, so anyone who ever gets one can push it as many times as they want. And doing so costs them nothing. Anyone that ever buys or is given a glass of our Magic Lemonade can instantly and freely make as many more glasses as they want.
So, I propose that we form our Magic Lemonade company right away and sell just as many of these glasses of lemonade as we possibly can! Can I get some venture capital now?
Now, if we actually start up a company and get this going, we're not evil, but we're pretty damn stupid. But suppose we had a whole ton of money to throw into this investment. And we want to make it work no matter what, so we build tons of infrastructure to support our product. And then, best yet, we start throwing tons of money towards Congress to pass laws to enforce our stupid business model...wasting all sorts of resources, doing harm to the economy and harm to the common good...well, IMO it might not be evil but we sure wouldn't be saints.
But hey, anything for big business, right!
> Most of what's labeled as piracy nowadays is simply acting
> in accordance with the laws of information physics at possible
> detriment to the financial standing of companies that have a
> vested interest in maintaining the status quo with regards to
> content-centric business models.
How is that any different from saying:
"Most of what's labeled as burglary nowadays is simply acting in accordance with the laws of mechanical physics at possible detriment to the financial standing of companies that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo with regards to inventory-centric business models."
It's the difference between information and physical objects. If someone breaks into a warehouse and steals a television to sell to someone else, they hurt the company they stole it from in two ways:
1. They deprive the company of whatever revenue it could have obtained through lawful sale of that television.
2. They satisfy a consumer's demand for a television, which could cost the company another potential sale.
This scenario does not change if the television were slated to go on the market for the first time next week, or if it had already been on the market for a year. The possible monetary values change, but the logic stays the same.
Now, imagine that the same person, while working in a movie studio, makes a copy of the finished (yet _unreleased_) product on a DVD (with their own equipment, powered on their own batteries, during their lunch break). That person then makes many copies of the DVD and sells them for a "low" price. That person has hurt the production company in _one_ way.
-They have reduced demand for the information (the movie) when it finally comes out in theaters.
-They have _not_ prevented the production company from finishing the film by stealing key footage, equipment, or any other property.
This scenario does change if the movie had already been released to the public. Note that releasing to the public does not include playing in theaters as theaters do not allow customers to have unrestricted physical access to the information and thus cannot make perfect copies. Once the information has been released to the public in a form that gives the consumer unrestricted physical access to the medium storing the information, that information becomes freely copyable.
If that same person were to copy and resell a released DVD, the (potential) damage done to the company would be inversely proportional to the level of progressiveness in views held by the society towards information and the expense of the duplication equipment. I.e. it would not be damaging in a society where information physics are understood by all and copying equipment is cheap (the future, hopefully), but it would be very damaging in a situation where the physics of information are not understood by all, specifically the big media companies, and copying equipment is cheap (now). In the past, when copyright was originally provided for in the constitution, copying equipment was expensive and information physics was not understood. A single, small, yet unauthorized reprinting of a copyrighted book would have been moderately damaging. (It would hurt companies with business models forged in ignorance of infomration physics, but would hame limited effect -- recipients of the reprints would be unable to copy them without expensive equipment.)
What's the difference? Through reasonable legislation and reasonable security measures (i.e. not a police state and wherehouses don't have to be guarded by 1000 armed security personnel), the first and second scenarios can be prevented or reduced to the point where the activites of producing and selling goods and providing the service of creating valuable content can be profitable and productive ventures in a free society. You _can_ (mostly) stop people from stealing out of warehouses. You _can_ (mostly) stop films from being pirated before they are released (see above post re: information physics and secrets).
You _cannot_, however, prevent the third scenario because it is impossible to prevent people from copying information when they have unrestricted physical access to a medium that stores it.
In other words, media companies need to shape up and change their business model with regards to post-release revenue, not because it's the "moral thing" to do but because the method of obtaining post-release revenue they desire and a free society in the information age are mutually exclusive, and a free society is essential. Similarly, we need tougher laws to prosecute pre-release pirates (those who make consumer accessible versions of content available before the copyright owners do) and consistent enforcement. Again, not because it's the "moral thing", but because it's necessary for media creators to stay in business in the information age.
That's the most absurd statement I have heard since "Information wants to be free".
How about "Information wants to be anthropomorphized."?
I'll be VERY surprised if the exec is lying.
I saw copies of the DVD release of Star Wars 4-6 before it had even been officially announced that such things existed. The title screens were not completely accurate, but the movies themselves were correct. The same was true for Episode II, although that release had been announced. And this wasn't some cheap pirate copy -- this was pretty much the same DVD as what you'd buy in a store. Cost? About $1 per disc (so a 2-disc DVD set, like LotR:FotR is $2).
There was even a copy of Lilo & Stitch while L&S was still in theaters. Granted, it was a DVD of a VCD of some guy holding up a camcorder in a theater, but there you have it.
Sometimes you have shoddy quality like that. Frequently you have DVD's that won't play more than 45 minutes in better DVD players because of shoddy DVD burners. But if the movie exists in some form somewhere, the folks in China have a copy of it.
And if you don't believe me, find someone who's Chinese, make a friend, and have them give you a tour of Hong Kong, Shanghai, or Beijing, and make sure they take you by one of these stores.
(And you might want to pick up a region-free DVD player or three and a couple hundred ultra-cheap DVD's while you're at it!)
It should go like this:
IN SOVIET RUSSIA...The Two Towers get YOU (for two bits).
Got it? Freaking hilarious, I tell you!
I would not get the DVD even if someone gave me money with it (well, ok, if it were a LOT of money...). Even now I mute the TV when a TTT commercial comes on. Someone asked me why I do this since it's not like there's any spoiler info in them. And even if there were I already know what's going to happen anyway. I tried to explain that it's not about the plot or story but the actual telling of it.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
a 19 or 21 inch screen compared to the BIG silver screen for the first time just isn't worth it. even if this story were true (again, probably not) nothing beats the atmosphere of seeing a movie in a theatre. at least for me.
I write code.
I'd ask if you were kidding, but... Information is not particularly physical. Try telling a gossipy friend some especially juicy secret, and then insisting that it's your property so they can't share it. Don't get quite the same results as when you loan them a jacket, do you? Every time information gets accessed, it's coppied. That's why people say "it wants to be free." Even if you just watch a movie, your brain stores a copy of it (well, the parts you remember), and you'll probably want to tell someone about it at some point, unless you're a sociopath. If you're going to be nitpicky, argue that people (as a rule, which can imply exceptions) want information to be free, but it amounts to about the same thing.
>Really? I have a small collection of DVDs. I frequently loan them to my friends. Are they stealing? If not, why is it ok for me to lend them the DVD, but not ok for me to lend them only the information that resides on the DVD?
LENDING isn't the problem. It's your friends COPYING them when you lend them.
So factor in the ushers, projectionists, and all the people with access to the movie before it comes out (in this case, anyways), and that adds up to not necessarily an inside job at the movie studio.
lets say that there are pirated copies of the movie, but the people selling them are probably feds who when u try to buy it, are gonna bust ur ass, and book you downtown
Facts:
tryed = tried
pleathra = plethora
in cogneato = incognito
Yea = Yeah, or Yes
Conclusion:
You = MORON
Corrective Action:
Learn to spell!
This is not suprising - I was in Shenzhen, China over Thanksgiving break, and they were selling The Return of the King on DVD, too. Of course, both the DVDs for the second and third movie have something else on them entirely. I've seen them frequently sell movies that are far from being released, just because the demand is there and we have no way to verify the contents of the DVD.
If the movie was really out, we'd have it available on the net, in any case.
Many parenting sources (I'm a dad) recommend no popcorn for children under 3 since it's a choking hazard, but we're occasionally giving it to our (2.5yo) daughter as a treat. Last week she sat through a two hour movie without moving anything but her hand to the bucket and to her mouth - over and over again.
The MPAA would like to take this opportunity to thank you and other consciencious parents like you who are halping to train the next generation of media drones^H^H^H^H^H^Hconsumers who will help assure our longterm profitability.
But remember! If your child leaves during the "upcoming features" section on any VHS tape, or fails to fully watch the included trailers for other films on any DVD, then he/she may be guilty of violating the DMCA. We're not quit sure HOW yet, but we'll figure out a way to ruin his/her life if we have to. After all, they show lots of movies in prison!
That's one reason for the televisions with that sound-leveling feature that keeps everything within a given volume range.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
What you fail to realize is that very few people in Asia have broadband, but many have access to burning facilities... including large scale ones. Just because "its not on the net" (therefore it doesn't exist) doesn't mean that it can't be true. In fact, most people would rather pay a buck or two to have a movie encoded with divx on two cd's than trying to download a 1GB+ file.
In China, and Asia in general, things work differently. People can openly buy wares without fear of prosecution, so people can pretty much sell whatever digital media they acquire. Here, in the US, where corporate fear is paramount to consumer rights, its not surprising to see that the only way we can see the new Two Towers movie is by doing so legally. In China, this isn't the case- if you dont protect your media, you deserve to get it ripped off. In a way, going down to your local "pirate" store in Shanghai or Hong Kong is a lot faster than getting stuff off the net, and you dont have to hide behind a a computer to get what you really want.
China (and Asia), in a sense, is far ahead of us as far as DRM goes... they just look the other way.
"Smokey, this isn't Nam, there are rules." -Walter
LENDING isn't the problem. It's your friends COPYING them when you lend them.
In the physical realm, these are two distinct things. In the digital, information realm, I simply cannot lend information without copying it. The way current laws are written, I can't even lend the information. As you point out, "LENDING isn't the problem," so why are current laws being written to prevent it?
Born 1890. Started franchising KFC when he was 65 years old. died 1980
So real yes, but dead.
When you acquire something that has value without compensating the owner, that is Stealing.
What if the owner of said content didn't distribute it in your country? Should you be forced to move? What if the only means available to seeing certain media is to do so illegally?
In other words, your view is completely US centric, what you are saying essentially is that the rich get to see movies and the poor are thieves. Most countries besides the US don't have a Muvico on every corner, because people can't afford the ridiculous prices companies in the US charge for their intellectual wares. The price of a movie ticket in the US is more than the monthly salary of many people of the world, did you even condsider this?
Now, I'm not advocating that every movie should be ripped off, but in poorer countries how is someone supposed to fork over a month's wage to see a flick? Not by using their brain.
"Smokey, this isn't Nam, there are rules." -Walter
>The way current laws are written, I can't even lend the information.
/. (pro-digital copy protection), but the fact is that copyrighted material is produced because there is a market for it (money to be made). If your stuff is just going to get distributed for free, then you either stop making your music (or movies, or whatever) or you change how you distribute it (so that you can insure you get your props).
Two things. 1) You place the blame on how the "current laws are written". How about how the current software and content formats are written?
2) What about intent? When you post an mp3 file on gnutella, your intent is not the same as lending a DVD to a friend. You lend a DVD to a friend, you (if you are honest) intend to get the DVD back and don't expect your friend to keep a copy for himself. When you put your file on a P2P network, you aren't "lending" the file. You are giving it away. You are expecting people to copy it and keep it and make more copies and give those away, etc. etc. It's more like burning copies of your DVD and giving those copies away to your friends.
The intent of the law is ok. DISTRIBUTING COPIES OF COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL SO THAT PEOPLE CAN KEEP THAT MATERIAL WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT IS ILLEGAL. The laws have to change a bit to take into account how digital media works. The digital media should change too. I know that is an unpopular opinion to have on
I don't know how the pirated movies are distributed and where the origins are, but I can assure You that that story is true. In South-Eastern asia, Russia and Eastern Europe, there are many people who copy movies (mostly bad quality). But the copies appear before their US-release for sure and they are even already translated/dubbed (even when the translations are mostly bad quality).
But for Your information:
It has been like this for more than 20 years. So... where are the news about it?
>What if the owner of said content didn't distribute it in your
> country? Should you be forced to move? What if the only means
> available to seeing certain media is to do so illegally?
I would say "tough shit". Property is property. People in poorer countries can't afford lots of other things that people in developed countries (NOT JUST THE USA, EUROPE TOO) can afford. Should we just give all that away, too?
Who's going to watch some crappy version of LOTR filmed by someone in the backrow of the theatre with a HandyCam? I'd rather wait the week and see it in the theatres, then buy the DVD when it comes out.
Now if it was a perfect digitial copy of the film, that might definitely cut into DVD sales! Oh, if only China had strong DeCSS laws this would never happen.
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
No. PEOPLE want information to be free. Information is property. PERIOD. I'd like cars to be free, too, but I don't presume to suggest that cars want to be free. Nor to I feel justified in stealing cars.
I asked my girlfriend (who is Shanghaiese) about this:
her email back:
hehe, very interesting, but based on my experience, not only in front of that mall, anyplace where sells the pirate DVDs will have it.
It's Kentucky. It's mentioned on the 'Behind the Laughter' episode.
Geez.
I think that this is yet another indication that the MPAA and RIAA are concerend with controlling the consumer, not about piracy. Those illegal LotR: TTT disks were almost certainly produced on high volume equipment that does not depend on braking the encryption. The reason that the sleazebags want their controls is to keep you from skipping commercials or from using the disk that you lawfully purchsaed in a different zone.
In KL at least, that was the easiest place. Lots of DVDs, about three dollars each. Older movies were DVD rips, newer ones had either text (Call 1-800-MPAA if you've purchased this on bottom of screen occasionally) or screeners. They told us about those though, showed a couple on the TV (our picks, not theirs) for us. Some of the discs were rather picky about players, but most worked just fine. A couple of them were wacky, but 90+ was just like normal DVDs.
AC
>As for the volumne, damn Sam,
s .h tml
>IF IT IS TOO LOUD, THEN YOU ARE TOO OLD!
I too am very reluctant to go to the movie theaters due to the volume. Gordon Sumner, also known as the musician Sting, suffers from a particularly bad case of tinnitus, which is a constant ringing in the ears. I read in a book where he described it as the sound of a flock of birds screeching in his ears. That would be a nightmare.
I just did a quick search on the Web, and here's a page full of famous people who suffer from this problem:
http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/melody/73/tinnitu
Quite surprising, really. If you are relunctant to hop to that page, maybe these names will pique your interest: Bono and Edge (from U2), Phil Collins, Ted Nugent, Huey Lewis, David Letterman, William Shatner, and Leonard Nimoy. Ouch.
To quote the wise sage Indiana Jones (from Raiders of the Lost Ark), "It's not the years, it's the mileage."
...the streets just cleared up from the European première. I'm right around the block from the Rex theatre where it showed, and there were cars everywhere for hours on end. Before the viewing, I had to wade through two arrondissements whose traffic was screwed up by this. Amazingly, people weren't honking their horns for once.
Off-topic, and yet somehow on. I couldn't resist posting, even though it'll get lost on the second page.
Oh, and in case you wondered, no I didn't get to see it. Yet.
I lived in Beijing for two years. I'm surprised that it took this long. It should be noted, however, that since February there have been people selling DVD's in packages advertising Lord of the Rings Two. Never bought one, but I'm thinking that it was actually The Ring 2.
Anyway, having lived there, I can assure you, it's real. I'm just surprised that there were only 40 vendors selling it.
(And besides, how did they expect us not to buy pirate copies there, since "Fellowship" took six months to come to a theatre near us?) Bought the pirate DVD, paid full theatre price to see it (twice), and bought the legit DVD. Don't see how it cut into their sales at all.....
-ex
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
If the counterfeits are not the critic's preview dvd (or whatever they are), then obviously the quality will not be very good. If people want to buy (to-bo) blockbuster movies at that quality and watch it that way then that's fine with me, but I prefer to watch a movie like the LOFR on the big screen. That's great, that the people who buy the counterfeit dvds, will know what happens, but what's the point. Movies are meant for entertainment, you don't want to watch low quality crap. Buying the counterfeit at that quality only allows you know know the substance of the movie, but in that case, why not just get the book.
I have been in Beijing China for the last month and have made several DVD shopping excursions. I must say that none of the sellers I've done business with have had a copy.
... "Good Movie!". I shouldn't have bought anything after that, but he did have a Godfather Box Set for US$9 that I havent seen elsewhere.
Worst moment so far is a guy pushing a copy of Grease into my hands and saying in his broken Sino-English
What about intent? When you post an mp3 file on gnutella, your intent is not the same as lending a DVD to a friend.
I never said it was. The problem is that current laws, content formats, whatever, which aim to prevent that mass distribution also prevent me from doing all sorts of legitimate things. If you can come up with a scheme that prevents mass copying of a product but does not infringe upon my fair use rights, everybody would love to hear it. But right now, nobody has, and that's the problem.
DISTRIBUTING COPIES OF COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL SO THAT PEOPLE CAN KEEP THAT MATERIAL WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT IS ILLEGAL.
No need to shout. And I haven't disagreed with this point.
(pro-digital copy protection),
Once again, I must reinforce that your "copy protection" has now robbed me of a lot of the rights I had with the physical object. Your "pro-digital copy protection" is also "anti-fair-use", which is just one of the reasons it's unpopular. People dislike when you take their rights away. ("Hey Bob, listen to this song I just got." "Well, it depends, am I in the same room as you, or am I on the same chatroom as you. One's legal, one's not.")
If your stuff is just going to get distributed for free, then you either stop making your music (or movies, or whatever) or you change how you distribute it (so that you can insure you get your props).
Are you against free public libraries? I bet that you are not. But your argument seems to be against them, seeing as how libraries distribute copyrighted materials for free and decreasing the market for the material.
it's a fake!
I don't believe cnn didn't actually check it out. the cover looked legit at first glance, but a movie fanatic I know looked at it and pointed it was a modified cover of a scene from LOTR1. the movie was actually some old 80s flick.
the two towers movie has ben available in the philippines for a couple of months now, unfortunately, it is not really the two towers movie, enterprising people packaged an entirely different movie as the two towers. as most a lot the pirated movies in the Philippines come from China, i think this is probably the same case, remember the bogus 5th harry potter novel? it also came from china.
you are a moron. If there was ANY version of twin towers on the blackmarket it would hit the net.
You're obviously not into the 'scene', good idea, stay out of it.
Ok, this is what bothers me at the face of the article. All this talk about music and movie piracy by common citizens using p2p has got the entertainment industry trying to force hardware OEM's and the congress to succumb to their need to "secure" their profit and revenue stream. So, we see laws that give them the right to hack networks and servers they "suspect" has illegal copies of their material (e.g. anything mp3!). So they bust into U.S. military academies and get a bunch of officer cadets punished or thrown out of the service and ruin potential careers. Now, the thing that bothers me most is this movie isn't scheduled to be released to the public until the 18th of December. Ya, I know about pre-screenings and promotionals and that critics get viewings and copies as well. It just seems to me that the entertainment industry is scape goating the public for it's own ineptitude. They can't even control the sharks in their own pool. I mean how the hell did people in China get copies of this. Talk about unsecure media. It didn't just magically appear one day in the tray of someones DVD player. Some insider was either sloppy or down right criminal (to use the MPAA/RIAA's take on pirates). It just seems hyporcritical for these guys to talk about all the lost revenue they are suffering when their own people are selling them out. Someone somewhere got a copy of this burned a few 100K of them and is celling them for peanuts and this person was most likely handed the master by someone in the movie industry - talk about giving it up on a gold platter. So, I have little sorrow for them, they're their own worst enemy and have no one to blame but themsleves IMHO.
The major proponets of DRM have used the phrase "keeping honest people honest." This is so far from the truth that it should be "Making honest people Crooks." I don't need to remind slashdot readers about napster. Before intervention, CD sales were booming, After action to shut them down (before the recession even) CD sales immediately see a drop. So why is this? How do countries in asia manage to have cinema or software stores when pirate releases are available for $1? The truth of the matter is this. Honest people will justify illigitimate sources of material by _Buying_ the material they find to be the best, as much as they can afford. On the other hand, we have DRM, DRM makes you a 'crook' if you try to make a copy of your friend's wedding DVD. You, as an End user CANNOT burn a DVD-r that can be copied. The drives are and software have been crippled, so that even if the encryption were broken, and someone burned a commercial DVD to DVD-r and sold it to someone else that person wouldn't have the slighetst clue how to make a copy of the illigitimate copy. ..
So as a side effect, when you send out a DVD of your own wedding, it carries copy-protection flags, and can only be viewed, and never used to make a copy, without the same knowledge needed to make a copy of a holywood block buster.
Not to mention that 'honest' users feel they OWN anything they buy(as opposed to 'renting'), and they feel entitled to the right to copy it for thier own archival use. So an 'honest' user would find themselves force to become a 'criminal' because of DRM to do what they felt were 'legitimate' uses. If those users then start to look into the matter, it's quite logical that they could become Angry, and upset at the media industry. which Turns a 'honest' user into a Criminal. DRM... Making honest people criminals.
Oh and for what it's worth, in eastern philosophy it is common for intelectual property to be viewed as belonging not to any individual or group, but rather to society at general. So, realistically Asia isn't a land full of 'dishonest' pirates, but rather people who justify IP 'theft' by the principal that all IP belongs to everyone, and cannot be owned, reguardless of what the law says.
This parallels very well with moonshiners justifying thier actions by believing that revenuers are evil... and america has a 200+ year history (since the tax on distilled liquor started) of moonshining. So it's pretty clear that these kind of philosphies don't get rooted out. Not with DRM, not by sending armed police with the revenuers, and certainly not with laws.
The only way to win is to be more attractive to consumers than the alternative. If you do that, it doesn't matter what price the inferior product is available at, most people just won't use it, especially if they feel strongly that it is unethical to do so.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
cnn reported the story but didn't watch the dvd. its not lotr2, just some old movie with a cover image using photoshopped lotr1 pictures.
sig2dat:///|File:%20Ghost%20Dog%20[DVD-Rip,%20DivX ].avi|Length:%20681744384%20Bytes,%20665766KB|UUHa sh:%20=tE2ITK0VQFVHuqlM1+CYQ3janzs=|
China has become a second rate culture in the 20th-21st century, because they only seem to be able to copy, rather than innovate, whether it is movies or high tech. The few movie directors and actors who do become good migrate to the West anyways. China has tons of great ancient myths that would rival a Lord of the Rings triolgy if they'd put their minds to it.
Read the damn book, you lazy f***s. But on a more serious note, the piracy business is nothing new. So I don't even see why this is a news item anyway, it's only the magnitude and the cultural significance of The Two Towers that makes this even worth mentioning. Personally, I'll wait for the big screen premiere - I want to experience this movie the way it was intended to. Till then, I'll just stick to the books (or books in general).
"But it's a GAZEBO!"
Why divx? Now xvid and mp4 are as good as divx if not better! Besides, xvid is open source, which should matter to slashdot people!
For a slashdotter the best dvd rip should be a xvid/ogg rip. Many of these play properly only under linux, with avifile,xine or mplayer and DO NOT PLAY under windoze!
Yes, the suspense of it and seeing a movie like LotR on the bigscreen is important, and that excitement is still alive in this day of bootlegs and downloads. Simply look at movie ticket sales! Other countries are crazed with bootleg DVDs of brandnew movies, but more because of the unlikelyhood that the majority of movie and music fans over there will (1) see the movie in the theater due to money and location or (2) be able to afford the price of legit DVDs and CDRs.
What if the owner of said content didn't distribute it in your country? Should you be forced to move? What if the only means available to seeing certain media is to do so illegally?
Who gives a shit? The people making the content have every right to distribute it as they choose. If they only want to sell their movies to disabled homosexual midgets, that's their right.
There's no universal human right to watch the latest installment of Star Wars or LOTR.
I just read one of his books, called "Geeks, how two boy rode the internet out of Idaho".This man is a great author. And on top of that , how could you say that?!! ,from what I've read your a great , and brave guy.
P.S. Jesse if your reading this (which you probaly will)
X windows:
You'd better sit down.
Don't laugh. It could be YOUR thesis project.
Why do it right when you can do it wrong?
Live the nightmare.
Our bugs run faster.
When it absolutely, positively HAS to crash overnight.
There ARE no rules.
You'll wish we were kidding.
Everything you never wanted in a window system. And more.
Dissatisfaction guaranteed.
There's got to be a better way.
The next best thing to keypunching.
Leave the thrashing to us.
We wrote the book on core dumps.
Even your dog won't like it.
More than enough rope.
Garbage at your fingertips.
Incompatibility. Shoddiness. Uselessness.
X windows.
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