Oh come off it. Who the heck modded this garbage up?
Look buddy, nobody here is saying the original was bad. We're just open to seeing a different interpretation of it, which *gasp* has the potential to be even better! I know people like you don't like or appreciate change, but its a part of the world, and the vast majority of people like it, so get over yourself, realize things change, and try watching this movie with an open mind.
And you sir are a fucking troll. I'm someone in the industry, and I am not a born liar, nor will I ever work on ads that lie or are unethical.
Grow the fuck up and realize that just as in any industry, there are good and bad practioners. Would you believe that Carmichael Lynch (an agency) turned down BIG money when they turned down a business request from a cigarette company. Other agencies out there have been known to toss a client the second the client wants something bordering on dishonest.
I certainly don't go making blanket statements about software companies simply because I don't like some things M$ has done, or the people who work for them. So how about you learn some respect and get some brains and realize that not everybody has loose ethics and will lie at the drop of a hat.
And as someone who is currently in the industry, I can say wholeheartedly that there are both ethical agencies, and unethical agencies in our industry. Just like any other industry.
Remember, when an agency puts out an ad, its their reputation on the line, and reputation in the advertising world is worth a WHOLE lot more than other industries, since it is essentially what encourages advertisers to go with us. So what it comes down to really is that there are companies who do not care so much about ethics, and they in turn hire an agency who doesn't have to hold their moral bar so high to get these clients, and then they put out ads that border on false advertising.
It amazes me, someone in the industry, to sit down and watch TV and see some of the drek that is pushed on people, and trust me folks, it only gets scarier when you've got an inside perspective on the business. But it never ceases to amaze me how naive otherwise intelligent Slashdotters could be to think that all of advertising is unethical, lying, and scummy. Wake up guys, people need to find out about products and services. We are the peddlers of your wares, and frankly, I'm sick of being disrespecte for it. I hold myself to a high ethical code, and whenever someone assumes that since I'm in advertising, I must be "teh evil", I just want to punch them in the face.
Stop being a bunch of slashbots, and try learning what things are really like in an industry before you condemn it. I sure as hell don't make assumptions about the tech industry without becoming more informed. And please don't argue back that "you are informed, yadayadayada". If you really were, you'd realize there's always going to be negative stories about an industry, and that people tend to remember the bad over the good.
" You're the sort of person I woud make sure to only ever speak to face-to-face."
You bring up a really interesting point. So far, thanks to information technology, we've developed systems of storing personal interaction and sifting through it (somewhat). However, due to the nature of the digital medium people tend to open up a bit more through the net because its less personal, and they for some reason don't feel as accountable.
It will be interesting to see how those two factors intersect. What will happen when it becomes trivial to be reminded of everything a person said digitally, or in person (when converted to digital), but you've been a lot more free with your mind?
Will we see people becoming much more conscious of what they put on the net? Perhaps this is a mindset privacy minded folk would like to encourage.
I can't believe I'm responding to this pile of flamebait, but here goes.
As someone who has spindles of anime, and gigs upon gigs of movies on my harddrives, allow me to explain why this data holds value to us. People the world over collect all manner of things, from stamps, to post cards, to matches, to whatever. To many of us, we enjoy "collecting" this data. Just about every kind of collector out there invests a little money in his collection, and this is what we do by burning them to CDRs.
That explains the collection aspect, now allow me to discuss a bit about how the digital revolution has changed society a bit. You see, before this, people didn't have a very efficient way of keeping a personal horde of data. It used to be done by keeping a large physical library, but now you can carry a Library of Con...err...you know where I'm going with this. My point is, society evolves around the technology we create. We have now begun to adapt to living our lives with near instantaneous access to massive database of information that people from the past couldn't have possibly dreamed of (well, there's a few exceptions).
So perhaps it is the parent who needs to get a life, or at least a modern one. No, actually I shouldn't say that, because that would be imposing my personal views of what I think is cool and interesting onto him, and well, two wrongs don't make a right and whatnot.
Fact is, I see this evolving alongside cellphones and true wearable computers with tiny monitors and such to provide us in the near future with access to our entire personal library of information with us wherever we go, and the real push will be in speeding that process, and making the immersion as realistic as people want, or at least on par with using your personal computer.
Parent had a funny post, but I'd be willing to bet that if there were statistics for this, they would invariably show that AIM users are on the whole more social and outgoing than ICQ users for example.
Remember, we all make fun of those 13 year old girls on AIM, but most of them have pretty active social lives.
Only if you haven't been infected by the Diebold 2.0.0.4 virus, in which case it would move right regardless of who you thought of, and would increase the cursor movement count.
Personally, I don't want ANY law that states that if a program is installed, it must uninstall another program that matches its guidelines. I'm the only one who should decide if I delete something from my system.
Repeat after me: If I don't sign a legally binding agreement (and I don't mean an EULA), then there is no contract. Period. I mean that both in the legal sense, and in the moral sense. Its my damn computer, my damn eyeballs, and i'll view things however I want. This is akin to when the TV exec accused people who didn't watch their commercials thieves.
Remember, marketing is not just about getting people to buy things, its about building brand awareness. And while that sounds like a buzzword to many of you, it is actually an industry term and it is a pretty important thing. And ultimately, brand awareness can help translate into sales, because you might be more comfortable with the brand when you have options, or you might mention it to someone, etc.
That being said , I would disagree that the Saturn ad wasn't effective on you. You not only remembered the ad, but are now spreading the word about the Saturn ad virally (another industry term). You just got them the eyeballs of every single person reading this story, which I'm sure would have cost a lot more if they went through the traditional channels of buying a slashvertisement (why don't they just admit it already!).
And there is the argument that not all press is good press, but people who are already considering a Saturn (read: potential customers) will have the brand name fresh in their mind and that might help sway them to Saturn in some long convoluted way.
Remember, in advertising, unless there's a damn good reason for it, for the most part you ignore people who are not part of your target audience. If you weren't going to consider a Saturn, this ad would be pointless, and if you were going to consider it, it will be fresh in your mind. Remember, all press is NOT good press if it is openly BAD press, but this is not such a bad thing as to really affect things more negatively than positively. Unless of course you make purchasing decisions on reasons other than the product, but from a marketers perspective, this is not important since it won't affect the vast majority.
I hope this explains a lot about how the psychology of this works.
As someone in marketing, I can say that this is probably at least one facet of their research. I'm sure they do tons of focus groups, surveys, etc.
But you really can get information you wouldn't normally get when something is "leaked". And in the end, if it helps make the product better based on your input, isn't that a good thing? Plus, I'm sure they enjoy the free buzz it generates.
I'm wondering how much of bittorrent file sharing is music and how much is other things like apps, movies, tv shows, etc. Can anybody point me to some statistics please?
Well, although your post was most certainly flamebait, you bring up a good point. Many people here on slashdot don't know what Buzz Marketing is.
As someone in the advertising/marketing industry, allow me to shed some light.
First off, it goes by a couple names: guerilla marketing, buzz marketing, viral marketing, etc. Some of it is paid, some of it is just because people want to, like in this situation.
Its not MLM at all, its more akin to hiring a spokesperson for a brand except they don't tell you they're a spokesperson. I must admit it isn't the most truthful method of advertising out there, but some people do manage to do it ethically. One UNETHICAL example I can think of was Sony's digital camera. They would send models to the bar with it, and have the models flirt with guys and get them to take their pictures while telling them all about the phone. Talk about playing up on peoples desires.
However, sometimes it can be as forward as the Miller Girls. You know they're there to push Miller on you, but you don't care, because they're hot, and you've made the conscious decision. I hope the Slashdot community realizes that while some marketing may not be the most open, nobody is trying to trick you into a product you don't want to buy. The vast majority of the time it is more profitable to simply figure out who actually WOULD buy the product, and just try to let them know about it and make their own decision. But as in ANY industry, we have our share of ethical and unethical people. Hope that clears some things up.
I must've missed the most recent internet fad wagon, but what is the old korean joke? I've seen references everywhere but have no idea what it is from.
I really don't mean to be a hypocrite guys, I mean, "being hooked up to the machine" can be bad, and with todays world [tinfoilhat] they'd be marketing to your brain when you played online games[/tinfoilhat].
But the gamer side of me is telling me "where the hell do I sign up, I'm grabbing my car keys as I type this."
True, but what this also does is send a warning to other cheaters out there that it won't be tolerated, and that Blizzard is taking an aggressive stance on it. Think of it as crowd control.
Unfortunately the smaller companies often times don't have the resources to do something that risky. If they don't win, it could very well mean the company goes under.
I beta tested WoW, and while it was fun, it wasn't anything TOO special. I personally won't be playing (or paying) an MMORPG until one comes out that ISN'T a giant online Skinner Box.
Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you add high enough caliber guns, doors won't really be a problem anymore, nor will walls, traffic, or anything else that you can make go away by repeatedly shooting.
Slashdot Mirror
Look buddy, nobody here is saying the original was bad. We're just open to seeing a different interpretation of it, which *gasp* has the potential to be even better! I know people like you don't like or appreciate change, but its a part of the world, and the vast majority of people like it, so get over yourself, realize things change, and try watching this movie with an open mind.
Grow the fuck up and realize that just as in any industry, there are good and bad practioners. Would you believe that Carmichael Lynch (an agency) turned down BIG money when they turned down a business request from a cigarette company. Other agencies out there have been known to toss a client the second the client wants something bordering on dishonest.
I certainly don't go making blanket statements about software companies simply because I don't like some things M$ has done, or the people who work for them. So how about you learn some respect and get some brains and realize that not everybody has loose ethics and will lie at the drop of a hat.
Remember, when an agency puts out an ad, its their reputation on the line, and reputation in the advertising world is worth a WHOLE lot more than other industries, since it is essentially what encourages advertisers to go with us. So what it comes down to really is that there are companies who do not care so much about ethics, and they in turn hire an agency who doesn't have to hold their moral bar so high to get these clients, and then they put out ads that border on false advertising.
It amazes me, someone in the industry, to sit down and watch TV and see some of the drek that is pushed on people, and trust me folks, it only gets scarier when you've got an inside perspective on the business. But it never ceases to amaze me how naive otherwise intelligent Slashdotters could be to think that all of advertising is unethical, lying, and scummy. Wake up guys, people need to find out about products and services. We are the peddlers of your wares, and frankly, I'm sick of being disrespecte for it. I hold myself to a high ethical code, and whenever someone assumes that since I'm in advertising, I must be "teh evil", I just want to punch them in the face.
Stop being a bunch of slashbots, and try learning what things are really like in an industry before you condemn it. I sure as hell don't make assumptions about the tech industry without becoming more informed. And please don't argue back that "you are informed, yadayadayada". If you really were, you'd realize there's always going to be negative stories about an industry, and that people tend to remember the bad over the good.
You bring up a really interesting point. So far, thanks to information technology, we've developed systems of storing personal interaction and sifting through it (somewhat). However, due to the nature of the digital medium people tend to open up a bit more through the net because its less personal, and they for some reason don't feel as accountable.
It will be interesting to see how those two factors intersect. What will happen when it becomes trivial to be reminded of everything a person said digitally, or in person (when converted to digital), but you've been a lot more free with your mind?
Will we see people becoming much more conscious of what they put on the net? Perhaps this is a mindset privacy minded folk would like to encourage.
As someone who has spindles of anime, and gigs upon gigs of movies on my harddrives, allow me to explain why this data holds value to us. People the world over collect all manner of things, from stamps, to post cards, to matches, to whatever. To many of us, we enjoy "collecting" this data. Just about every kind of collector out there invests a little money in his collection, and this is what we do by burning them to CDRs.
That explains the collection aspect, now allow me to discuss a bit about how the digital revolution has changed society a bit. You see, before this, people didn't have a very efficient way of keeping a personal horde of data. It used to be done by keeping a large physical library, but now you can carry a Library of Con...err...you know where I'm going with this. My point is, society evolves around the technology we create. We have now begun to adapt to living our lives with near instantaneous access to massive database of information that people from the past couldn't have possibly dreamed of (well, there's a few exceptions).
So perhaps it is the parent who needs to get a life, or at least a modern one. No, actually I shouldn't say that, because that would be imposing my personal views of what I think is cool and interesting onto him, and well, two wrongs don't make a right and whatnot.
Fact is, I see this evolving alongside cellphones and true wearable computers with tiny monitors and such to provide us in the near future with access to our entire personal library of information with us wherever we go, and the real push will be in speeding that process, and making the immersion as realistic as people want, or at least on par with using your personal computer.
Remember, we all make fun of those 13 year old girls on AIM, but most of them have pretty active social lives.
Nobody promised you business would be fair. Adapt your business model or close down shop.
That being said , I would disagree that the Saturn ad wasn't effective on you. You not only remembered the ad, but are now spreading the word about the Saturn ad virally (another industry term). You just got them the eyeballs of every single person reading this story, which I'm sure would have cost a lot more if they went through the traditional channels of buying a slashvertisement (why don't they just admit it already!).
And there is the argument that not all press is good press, but people who are already considering a Saturn (read: potential customers) will have the brand name fresh in their mind and that might help sway them to Saturn in some long convoluted way.
Remember, in advertising, unless there's a damn good reason for it, for the most part you ignore people who are not part of your target audience. If you weren't going to consider a Saturn, this ad would be pointless, and if you were going to consider it, it will be fresh in your mind. Remember, all press is NOT good press if it is openly BAD press, but this is not such a bad thing as to really affect things more negatively than positively. Unless of course you make purchasing decisions on reasons other than the product, but from a marketers perspective, this is not important since it won't affect the vast majority.
I hope this explains a lot about how the psychology of this works.
But you really can get information you wouldn't normally get when something is "leaked". And in the end, if it helps make the product better based on your input, isn't that a good thing? Plus, I'm sure they enjoy the free buzz it generates.
As someone in the advertising/marketing industry, allow me to shed some light.
First off, it goes by a couple names: guerilla marketing, buzz marketing, viral marketing, etc. Some of it is paid, some of it is just because people want to, like in this situation.
Its not MLM at all, its more akin to hiring a spokesperson for a brand except they don't tell you they're a spokesperson. I must admit it isn't the most truthful method of advertising out there, but some people do manage to do it ethically. One UNETHICAL example I can think of was Sony's digital camera. They would send models to the bar with it, and have the models flirt with guys and get them to take their pictures while telling them all about the phone. Talk about playing up on peoples desires.
However, sometimes it can be as forward as the Miller Girls. You know they're there to push Miller on you, but you don't care, because they're hot, and you've made the conscious decision. I hope the Slashdot community realizes that while some marketing may not be the most open, nobody is trying to trick you into a product you don't want to buy. The vast majority of the time it is more profitable to simply figure out who actually WOULD buy the product, and just try to let them know about it and make their own decision. But as in ANY industry, we have our share of ethical and unethical people. Hope that clears some things up.
I must've missed the most recent internet fad wagon, but what is the old korean joke? I've seen references everywhere but have no idea what it is from.
But the gamer side of me is telling me "where the hell do I sign up, I'm grabbing my car keys as I type this."
Indiana Jones vs Rambo vs Conan, but they're all over 50.
I'd pay to see that.
Oh god, the Virtual Boy, REBORN!