I'm pretty sure Puzzle Pirates uses tightly polished custom classes for most things in-game. They don't use the native libraries, instead opting for some other open-source libraries they've written. (I believe samskivert is the graphics library. Could be wrong. Narya, in the article, is the multiplayer toolkit.)
A good developer knows what each tool is best at, and more importantly, what each tool has difficulties with, and develops accordingly. Which is probably why C++ coders want to manage their own memory on Java, and why Three Rings can make an MMOG work in Java.
(aside: does that mean that programmers tend to stick with the language they started off with? Because I started with BASIC.
As South Park notes, like everything, this joke's been done.
In one episode, Marge looks out the same window at the same spot and nods knowingly at three different buildings, taking off boht the narrative convenience of people looking out their window and concocting genius, and the Simpsons writers' conplete disregard for geography.
Of course, most of their companies were satirical, which is quite a bit different to actual companies. One of the things I really liked about GTA3 was the satire they snuck in an otherwise morally bankrupt game.
Right, so you get to see a forum "moderator" threaten other players with in-game retaliation.
Link, please.
Suggestions to spare the developers by making the docs available on a Wiki were dismissed by the same moderator on the grounds that his eyes glazed over whenever he saw the word Wiki. Maybe you will host one on drod.net?
Of course, he's a player moderator, so it makes no difference to what he thinks - the developers love wikis (see We talked about it on the way to lunch a while back... ) so they're the ones you have to pay attention to. In this case, it's much like/., where the ability to moderate does not influence the ability to have an opinion (or indeed the quality of that opinion - I've seen nothing but good wikis.)
As to DROD.net hosting a YPP wiki, I doubt we'd do that. Firstly, we've still got to escape IPowerWeb (mostly done, but it's somewhat embarrasing that I've still got the link appearing on every post to an 'account suspended' page.) And secondly, DROD.net's for a different game, and I like to keep my personal and professional lives separate. Also, someone else is paying for hosting.
Then again, I could always bring it up...
It seems more that you have a beef with atteSmythe, the player in question, than with the game. In which case I suggest you e-mail the developers (start here: http://www.threerings.com) and outlines, with specific examples, exactly how you feel and imploring them to at least remove his moderator status (which extends only as far as the Game design forum). Instead of complaining on/.
For the record, I have no problem with atteSmythe - the only moderating I've seen him do is locking and moving threads that go off-topic or contain ideas that have been done to death, and in those cases he waits a few days so the explanation can be seen (there's also a few stickied threads that summarise all the common ideas considered and how they fared.) But then, I haven't seen anything that has been deleted with no trace whatsoever, obviously. So if there's a lot of stuff deleted without any sign, I'd want to hear about it. So e-mail them already.
Well, the forum's moderated by a player, and the documentation is being looked at by players, at the docs are basically web pages fed into the game.
I guess you could say the same thing about any project, though - why don't more developers spend more time documenting? They're too busy coding, mostly, although the documentation when up to date is generally of a high standard and does a good job of explaining things - nothing like man pages, that's for sure.
One of the moderators of the Game Design forums deletes posts and locks threads in order to prevent discussion of alternative designs that would make the game more enjoyable for newcomers. Every couple of weeks you discover another undocumented bias. Stay away.
Funny, I know I've gotten away with every stupid idea I've proposed that would make it easier for newbies to get into the game. And what sorts of biases do you refer to?
(As to monopolies, we're talking about people who play games on the Internet. They're made of string and data, and one slight push makes them fall over very easily. This applies not only to Puzzle pirates, but to most things borne of the Internet.)
People tend to think "This guy is not objective, I don't like him, therefore I disagree with whatever he says."
Stop looking in my window.
Yeah, I do this, although I add an extra twist: "This guy is not objective, I don't like him, but if I take his advice some people will see me as being just like him, which I don't want."
I like Linux. I mean, it's an operating system, and it doesn't piss me off, which is all I ask of an operating system. But those Linux zealots drove me away from Linux for a very long time, and they still do, to some extent. (This that I'm typing on is a Windows machine. Not a dual boot, it's vanilla Windows.) I'm not a bigot, by any means - obviously, there are places where Linux is superior and should be used (like web servers). But I don't think I'm really ready to use Linux on my own box - there are probably workarounds to the various issues I'd have, though, and probably people who would love to hear all about them. I'm just not that concerned, yet, although I'm switching before DRM locks me out of my own computer.
So, yeah, Linux zealots, calm the scupper down and actually sell Linux properly. Is it just Windows, but open source? Is it Windows, but more stable? Give people a reference point, and tell them why they should go through the switching process, especially if they're happy with Windows. Bullet points, and get it everywhere. (None of what I'm fairly sure are standard starting places, linux.org and linuxforums.org, have anything suitable.) You won't get people to switch by acting like you're on drugs, and Gerry will get sad again when I bring up various issues I have with Slashdot users who like Linux way too much.
And I think that's a good thing. Any publicity is good publicity, after all. At least linux will be on their "radar screen". Maybe they'll mention the article to one of their technical underlings, who will bring up alternatives to Gnome, or point out some of its strong points.
Or, far more likely, said pointy-haired individual will freak out whenever he hears the word 'gnome' (heaven help the underling talking about his RPG) and won't consider Gnome as a viable option until Computer World prints a new review saying that Gnome is good again.
And there wasn't much mention of Linux. About the only way you'll get bosses vaguely interested in checking out the options is if they really badly want to escape Microsoft - even if they're just vaguely unhappy with them, they'll probably stick around. Certainly, bosses aren't going to make the connection that 'Gnome' is related to 'Linux' from that article unless they're already knee-deep in alternatives, in which case it's not exactly earth-shattering.
Although, if we're talking boss of the pointy-haired variety instead of boss of the vaguely-clued variety, they'll stick with Windows for their own PC anyway because they're already familiar with it.
Dude, don't you know the best way to get help with Linux? You just say that Linux sucks because you can't do x, and everyone will rush to 'help' by correcting you. Otherwise they'll just say to read the manual, and we all know tech guys can't write manuals that are actually helpful.
YOU HEAR THAT, EVERYONE? We can stop talking about how Linux is so much better than Windows now. It doesn't matter anymore!
(Thank god, it was getting a little annoying. I mean, half of Slashdot seems to go on about Linux vs. Windows, and then they turn around and say they don't care. Maybe it's the other half that don't care, in which case can we mod the other mob down or something?)
I don't have my LotR handy, otherwise I'd go re-read the ford scene. I was sure that Frodo was the only one on the horse, in which case adding someone there to keep Frodo safe would have been the smart thing to do. But I'm probably wrong, so I won't push it.
What I do take issue with, of course, is the major changes made to Frodo's path at the end of the second movie being considered gratuitous. Although it's a major deviation from the books, I can see why Jackson did it - there's not much chance to go to Osgiliath and see the war if you're following main characters; it makes little sense for men, or in fact anyone, to go, 'oh, you have something our race has been after for centuries, Mordor is that way, have some rations, see you later'; and I suspect that Frodo's journey ended at the point it did (before Mordor, rather than after Shelob) because the Scouring was cut (a shame) and the third movie would have been too light otherwise. But the ending wouldn't have been that great, so now Faramir is a good commander and captures a vital weapon in the war.
Of course, the problem Jackson faced was that he had to adapt an influential and much-loved book, but also a somtimes clumsily-written one and one that a good portion of the population loses interest in half-way through into three movies that do justice to the grand scope of the books, engage and excite audiences (not just Tolkein-lovers) and make enough money to break even. Frankly, he did a remarkable job, and it could have been worse. Early drafts were written entirely in modern English, and gradually incorporated more and more of Tolkein's dialogue, or a reeasonable facsimile, as time went on. They could have not gotten Alan Lee on board. It could have been two movies, and Jackson would have been forced to cut even more than he did.
Not to mention that a movie is a collaborative effort - this means that studios reserve the right to fiddle. They would have cut Tom Bombadil almost immediately. You know it, I know it. Enough of Helm's Deep was unbeleivable that audiences would have had their suspensions of disbelief stretched that humans with no support from their so-called friends and only one competant archer won against a horde of orcs.
I got the impression that Saruman was merely breeding the Uruk-Hai in the movie, not creating them. But that's me.
I agree with the original post. The books and the movies are two different things, and if you try and compare one against the other you'll have problems. However, they are both excellent and they're both triumphs of storytelling. Only the details are different.
This talk of counterfeiting makes me wonder what Australian banks are doing in this consortium. Australia's one of the few countries that use plastic notes - and to make things worse, most vending machines use coins. It's certainly not impossible to get around, but Photoshop ain't gunna help much.
Ten bucks says questions like "What is your greatest weakness?" are designed to test your honesty and ability to look critically at yourself. Of course, it doesn't actually work that way, but that's how it's designed.
On the other hand, if you're honest and they don't like it, you might not have wanted to work there anyway if the hiring staff and/or manager aren't used to people being frank.
I reckon if you give the Star Wars license to anyone who isn't George Lucas they'll do a better job. Hell, if a computer game can come up with a better story than Lucas, Lucas has lost it.
Yeah, but then Eternal Darkness also gives you an easy and cheap method of avoiding all of those effects. They should have thought about that a bit more.
The bit I found most interesting was the idea that the game could force you into a certain mood. I can see that being really useful.
So is it or is it not true that guys don't want to know about feelings? I mean, here's Max Payne, badass extraordinare, taling about the goddamn rain, and here's you, a Slashdot user, getting pissed off at his sojourn into the realm of rain.
Bit like 'the exception that proves the rule' - 'prove' completely changed its meaning (basically from 'disprove') making that statement a bit odd except when you've just been owned in a debate. Although that's not the fault of bad grammar, I see no reason not to blame the Victorians for that too.
Even easier - put in (what name you'd like)@mailinator.com. Check the confirm e-mail at mailinator.com, and that's it.
Neat thing - mailinator accepts any e-mails going to it and automatically makes a new account with no password. So you don't even have to sign up beforehand. Very useful.
I think/. covered this at one point - home users use Windows because Windows programming is all about 'Unka Joe can use a compooter' and Linux programming is more about making sure that programmers can use your stuff effectively.
I mean, would you rather use emacs or Ultra-Edit for your programming jobs? (Answer's emacs, kids.) But is a GUI easier or harder to use than a command-line?
Well, there's always Puzzle Pirates, which uses skill at Popcap-ish puzzles to simulate skill at whatever you're doing in game. That and the playing community seems to kill most of the problems with RPGs and MMOs in one fell swoop.
Now what would be cool is if they took that skill idea and married it with something a bit more pulse-pounding, but I'm not too unhappy.
For that matter, I'm also playing DROD (obligatory advertisement) which is from about 1996 but I only found it this year. Does that count?
Slashdot Mirror
Here's the thing:
I'm pretty sure Puzzle Pirates uses tightly polished custom classes for most things in-game. They don't use the native libraries, instead opting for some other open-source libraries they've written. (I believe samskivert is the graphics library. Could be wrong. Narya, in the article, is the multiplayer toolkit.)
A good developer knows what each tool is best at, and more importantly, what each tool has difficulties with, and develops accordingly. Which is probably why C++ coders want to manage their own memory on Java, and why Three Rings can make an MMOG work in Java.
(aside: does that mean that programmers tend to stick with the language they started off with? Because I started with BASIC.
I am soooo screwed.)
As South Park notes, like everything, this joke's been done.
In one episode, Marge looks out the same window at the same spot and nods knowingly at three different buildings, taking off boht the narrative convenience of people looking out their window and concocting genius, and the Simpsons writers' conplete disregard for geography.
Not to mention the gorgeous drawings and animation.
Why do I get this feeling this is because of the nude scenes?
Only if you're an Australian pirate.
Go on, now do a Jamaican-to-Irish accent!
Top o' the morning to ya, mon.
Of course, most of their companies were satirical, which is quite a bit different to actual companies. One of the things I really liked about GTA3 was the satire they snuck in an otherwise morally bankrupt game.
Right, so you get to see a forum "moderator" threaten other players with in-game retaliation.
Link, please.
Suggestions to spare the developers by making the docs available on a Wiki were dismissed by the same moderator on the grounds that his eyes glazed over whenever he saw the word Wiki. Maybe you will host one on drod.net?
Here's the post referred to: I've never met a wiki I liked. Well, I fully admit that I might just not 'get it.'
Of course, he's a player moderator, so it makes no difference to what he thinks - the developers love wikis (see We talked about it on the way to lunch a while back... ) so they're the ones you have to pay attention to. In this case, it's much like /., where the ability to moderate does not influence the ability to have an opinion (or indeed the quality of that opinion - I've seen nothing but good wikis.)
As to DROD.net hosting a YPP wiki, I doubt we'd do that. Firstly, we've still got to escape IPowerWeb (mostly done, but it's somewhat embarrasing that I've still got the link appearing on every post to an 'account suspended' page.) And secondly, DROD.net's for a different game, and I like to keep my personal and professional lives separate. Also, someone else is paying for hosting. Then again, I could always bring it up...
It seems more that you have a beef with atteSmythe, the player in question, than with the game. In which case I suggest you e-mail the developers (start here: http://www.threerings.com) and outlines, with specific examples, exactly how you feel and imploring them to at least remove his moderator status (which extends only as far as the Game design forum). Instead of complaining on /.
For the record, I have no problem with atteSmythe - the only moderating I've seen him do is locking and moving threads that go off-topic or contain ideas that have been done to death, and in those cases he waits a few days so the explanation can be seen (there's also a few stickied threads that summarise all the common ideas considered and how they fared.) But then, I haven't seen anything that has been deleted with no trace whatsoever, obviously. So if there's a lot of stuff deleted without any sign, I'd want to hear about it. So e-mail them already.
Well, the forum's moderated by a player, and the documentation is being looked at by players, at the docs are basically web pages fed into the game.
I guess you could say the same thing about any project, though - why don't more developers spend more time documenting? They're too busy coding, mostly, although the documentation when up to date is generally of a high standard and does a good job of explaining things - nothing like man pages, that's for sure.
One of the moderators of the Game Design forums deletes posts and locks threads in order to prevent discussion of alternative designs that would make the game more enjoyable for newcomers. Every couple of weeks you discover another undocumented bias. Stay away.
Funny, I know I've gotten away with every stupid idea I've proposed that would make it easier for newbies to get into the game. And what sorts of biases do you refer to?
(As to monopolies, we're talking about people who play games on the Internet. They're made of string and data, and one slight push makes them fall over very easily. This applies not only to Puzzle pirates, but to most things borne of the Internet.)
People tend to think "This guy is not objective, I don't like him, therefore I disagree with whatever he says."
Stop looking in my window.
Yeah, I do this, although I add an extra twist: "This guy is not objective, I don't like him, but if I take his advice some people will see me as being just like him, which I don't want."
I like Linux. I mean, it's an operating system, and it doesn't piss me off, which is all I ask of an operating system. But those Linux zealots drove me away from Linux for a very long time, and they still do, to some extent. (This that I'm typing on is a Windows machine. Not a dual boot, it's vanilla Windows.) I'm not a bigot, by any means - obviously, there are places where Linux is superior and should be used (like web servers). But I don't think I'm really ready to use Linux on my own box - there are probably workarounds to the various issues I'd have, though, and probably people who would love to hear all about them. I'm just not that concerned, yet, although I'm switching before DRM locks me out of my own computer.
So, yeah, Linux zealots, calm the scupper down and actually sell Linux properly. Is it just Windows, but open source? Is it Windows, but more stable? Give people a reference point, and tell them why they should go through the switching process, especially if they're happy with Windows. Bullet points, and get it everywhere. (None of what I'm fairly sure are standard starting places, linux.org and linuxforums.org, have anything suitable.) You won't get people to switch by acting like you're on drugs, and Gerry will get sad again when I bring up various issues I have with Slashdot users who like Linux way too much.
(If you think I mean you, you're probably right.)
And I think that's a good thing. Any publicity is good publicity, after all. At least linux will be on their "radar screen". Maybe they'll mention the article to one of their technical underlings, who will bring up alternatives to Gnome, or point out some of its strong points.
Or, far more likely, said pointy-haired individual will freak out whenever he hears the word 'gnome' (heaven help the underling talking about his RPG) and won't consider Gnome as a viable option until Computer World prints a new review saying that Gnome is good again.
And there wasn't much mention of Linux. About the only way you'll get bosses vaguely interested in checking out the options is if they really badly want to escape Microsoft - even if they're just vaguely unhappy with them, they'll probably stick around. Certainly, bosses aren't going to make the connection that 'Gnome' is related to 'Linux' from that article unless they're already knee-deep in alternatives, in which case it's not exactly earth-shattering.
Although, if we're talking boss of the pointy-haired variety instead of boss of the vaguely-clued variety, they'll stick with Windows for their own PC anyway because they're already familiar with it.
Dude, don't you know the best way to get help with Linux? You just say that Linux sucks because you can't do x, and everyone will rush to 'help' by correcting you. Otherwise they'll just say to read the manual, and we all know tech guys can't write manuals that are actually helpful.
YOU HEAR THAT, EVERYONE? We can stop talking about how Linux is so much better than Windows now. It doesn't matter anymore!
(Thank god, it was getting a little annoying. I mean, half of Slashdot seems to go on about Linux vs. Windows, and then they turn around and say they don't care. Maybe it's the other half that don't care, in which case can we mod the other mob down or something?)
It's a two step process:
1) Install Linux
2) for i in *.jpeg; do mv $i `echo $i | sed s/\.jpeg/.jpg/ - ` ; done
See? Who says Linux isn't user-friendly?
Part of development, my friend, is not wasting time on things people will never use. That includes the other 4 clocks.
There is such a thing as too much choice, especially when your customers are terrified to just be USING your product.
Matt
I don't have my LotR handy, otherwise I'd go re-read the ford scene. I was sure that Frodo was the only one on the horse, in which case adding someone there to keep Frodo safe would have been the smart thing to do. But I'm probably wrong, so I won't push it.
What I do take issue with, of course, is the major changes made to Frodo's path at the end of the second movie being considered gratuitous. Although it's a major deviation from the books, I can see why Jackson did it - there's not much chance to go to Osgiliath and see the war if you're following main characters; it makes little sense for men, or in fact anyone, to go, 'oh, you have something our race has been after for centuries, Mordor is that way, have some rations, see you later'; and I suspect that Frodo's journey ended at the point it did (before Mordor, rather than after Shelob) because the Scouring was cut (a shame) and the third movie would have been too light otherwise. But the ending wouldn't have been that great, so now Faramir is a good commander and captures a vital weapon in the war.
Of course, the problem Jackson faced was that he had to adapt an influential and much-loved book, but also a somtimes clumsily-written one and one that a good portion of the population loses interest in half-way through into three movies that do justice to the grand scope of the books, engage and excite audiences (not just Tolkein-lovers) and make enough money to break even. Frankly, he did a remarkable job, and it could have been worse. Early drafts were written entirely in modern English, and gradually incorporated more and more of Tolkein's dialogue, or a reeasonable facsimile, as time went on. They could have not gotten Alan Lee on board. It could have been two movies, and Jackson would have been forced to cut even more than he did.
Not to mention that a movie is a collaborative effort - this means that studios reserve the right to fiddle. They would have cut Tom Bombadil almost immediately. You know it, I know it. Enough of Helm's Deep was unbeleivable that audiences would have had their suspensions of disbelief stretched that humans with no support from their so-called friends and only one competant archer won against a horde of orcs.
I got the impression that Saruman was merely breeding the Uruk-Hai in the movie, not creating them. But that's me.
I agree with the original post. The books and the movies are two different things, and if you try and compare one against the other you'll have problems. However, they are both excellent and they're both triumphs of storytelling. Only the details are different.
This talk of counterfeiting makes me wonder what Australian banks are doing in this consortium. Australia's one of the few countries that use plastic notes - and to make things worse, most vending machines use coins. It's certainly not impossible to get around, but Photoshop ain't gunna help much.
Ten bucks says questions like "What is your greatest weakness?" are designed to test your honesty and ability to look critically at yourself. Of course, it doesn't actually work that way, but that's how it's designed.
On the other hand, if you're honest and they don't like it, you might not have wanted to work there anyway if the hiring staff and/or manager aren't used to people being frank.
Handier question than it appears.
I reckon if you give the Star Wars license to anyone who isn't George Lucas they'll do a better job. Hell, if a computer game can come up with a better story than Lucas, Lucas has lost it.
Yeah, but then Eternal Darkness also gives you an easy and cheap method of avoiding all of those effects. They should have thought about that a bit more.
The bit I found most interesting was the idea that the game could force you into a certain mood. I can see that being really useful.
On the other hand, have you ever seen a gangster swim? Do they swim?
Hell, the only time they get in the water is when they have concrete boots on.
So is it or is it not true that guys don't want to know about feelings? I mean, here's Max Payne, badass extraordinare, taling about the goddamn rain, and here's you, a Slashdot user, getting pissed off at his sojourn into the realm of rain.
Damn, that made no sense.
Bit like 'the exception that proves the rule' - 'prove' completely changed its meaning (basically from 'disprove') making that statement a bit odd except when you've just been owned in a debate. Although that's not the fault of bad grammar, I see no reason not to blame the Victorians for that too.
Even easier - put in (what name you'd like)@mailinator.com. Check the confirm e-mail at mailinator.com, and that's it.
Neat thing - mailinator accepts any e-mails going to it and automatically makes a new account with no password. So you don't even have to sign up beforehand. Very useful.
I think /. covered this at one point - home users use Windows because Windows programming is all about 'Unka Joe can use a compooter' and Linux programming is more about making sure that programmers can use your stuff effectively.
I mean, would you rather use emacs or Ultra-Edit for your programming jobs? (Answer's emacs, kids.) But is a GUI easier or harder to use than a command-line?
Well, there's always Puzzle Pirates, which uses skill at Popcap-ish puzzles to simulate skill at whatever you're doing in game. That and the playing community seems to kill most of the problems with RPGs and MMOs in one fell swoop.
Now what would be cool is if they took that skill idea and married it with something a bit more pulse-pounding, but I'm not too unhappy.
For that matter, I'm also playing DROD (obligatory advertisement) which is from about 1996 but I only found it this year. Does that count?
I think I got shafted by the threading here, as I wasn't really talking about the dupe.
/. as foaming-at-the-mouth Microsoft-hating Linux geeks.
But I was being a bit tounge-in-cheek here in broadly classifying the entirety of
(And "your mom" is basically an insult - you can just leave it off there, instead of continuing in the vein of "your momma's so fat" etc.)