Domain: atf.gov
Stories and comments across the archive that link to atf.gov.
Comments · 113
-
Re:So Proud of Gun Ownership
Actually, provided it's a rifle or a shotgun it's perfectly legal as long as the laws of both states are followed. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-acquire
-
Re:Except that it is a felony
it is in no way a felony for someone to make(Including print) their own firearm. the problem comes if you try to sell that firearm.
from the atf website:
For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html -
Re:Tax evasion
The National Firearms Act (27 CFR, Part 479) is only about:
- fully automatic weapons
- short barreled rifes and shotguns
- silencers
- ``any other weapons'' / destructive devicesIt does _not_ apply to typical pistols, rifles or shotguns.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf
``c. Firearm. The term “firearm” means: (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in 18 U.S.C. 5845 (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) a muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and (8) a destructive device.''
Please note that felons are exempt from paying this $200 ``tax'' --- it's imposed only on honest, law-abiding citizens.
-
Re:Did He Really Just Pull That Up To His Face?
And hey, it's a plastic gun.
No, it's not. It's not even close to that. It's a plastic lower receiver with the rest of the gun being not plastic.
Actually, that's exactly what it is.
The lower reciever is the "firearm" as far as BATF are concerned. The rest is just unregulated parts.
So, if you want a gun, you have 3 (legal) choices
Run down to Dick's Sporting Goods, hand over your Visa, and (after satisfying all the regulatory burdens), walk out with your gun.
Wait for a gun show, find a random guy, swap cash and gun on the spot. More privacy, less convenience, no warranty.
Build your own. As long you're not transferring it to someone else this is (for the moment) perfectly legal.The last option, as parent points out, is only safely available to a relatively small group of very skilled experts.
A "plastic gun"--more specifically a safe lower receiver which can reliably be manufactured with little special skills is significant.
We are watching the development of a process and set of instructions that will make this available.I think we're about to see some very interesting (and fun) developments in firearms design.
Some folks hear "Holy cow--people could do anything " as a joyful expression of individual freedom.
Some folks hear it as a threat that must be curtailed at all costs -
Re:Politics
Most firearms can be willed to another person, provided it's legal for the recipient to have them (i.e. not a convicted felon, etc.) NFA weapons have additional scrutiny, and the BATFE has issued a position on those. Transfer of regulated firearms needs some oversight and paperwork from an FFL (and a lawyer.) Alternatively, if you have no desire to receive firearms that are willed to you, you can contact your local police barracks and they'll destroy them for you. Or you could sell them, but unless the estate executor acts directly on your behalf, you''ll probably need to take legal possession of the firearms before you can sell them. As always, consult a lawyer regarding your specific circumstances
... -
Re:Politics
A good friend of mine wanted to build a 1911 pistol (mostly as a machining exercise.) He contacted his lawyer as well as the BATFE. He was advised by both to fill out the Form 1 document. BATFE also provided him with a list of things he needed to do - identification of himself as the manufacturer (engraved on the frame) and serialization were the biggies. Granted, this was about 8 years ago, and I haven't dealt with this stuff since. My friend passed away shortly after, so I can't ask him for details.
There were issues with his wife inheriting the firearms. As you mentioned, the language is wonky. It wasn't clear if it was even legal for his lawyer to hold the firearms in probate until the matter was sorted. Ultimately, the 1911s were destroyed under supervision of state LE reps. Damned shame. At the time, ATF had issued a position on NFA inheritance, but as y'all have pointed out, home-made firearms ain't NFA items. The whole situation is a mess because the ATF rules don't work well with home-made items (i.e. "you're not supposed to do that.") -
Re:Politics
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/july-2012-importability-of-certain-shotguns.pdf
According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE, primary gun regulators), sporting does not include all sporting applications. Various popular competitions are not "sporting". The BATFE interpretation of sporting is "hunting, skeet and trap shooting and target shooting", see the BATFE pdf. No other sports qualify.
This is surprisingly important because 12 gauge shotguns technically in the same category as guided missiles, automatic grenade launchers, RPGs or 20mm anti-vehicle weapons. Any common 12 gauge shotgun without "sporting purpose" could be designated as a Destructive Device, requiring a $200 tax stamp and extensive legal compliance requirements. Same as if you wanted to buy a T-72 tank or anti-aircraft missile.
26 U.S.C. 5845
" Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter (.50 inches or 12.7mm), except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and" -
Re:Politics
Per the ATF: "For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution."
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html
So as long as you make it for yourself and don't sell it or give it away, it's Federally legal.
-
Re:Politics
BS.
Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105] link
Just curious (target shooter in gun-unfriendly Scotland here), what exactly makes it as "sporting" firearm? Does it give the target a 5 minute head start or something?
-
Re:Politics
You're legal if you fill out BATFE Form 1 - Application to Make and Register a Firearm and pay the tax (which is really the core of the issue.) The home-made firearm must be properly marked, and it's yours forever. You may not sell it, give it away, etc. It must comply with a bunch of other rules too - not an automatic weapon, not a short-barrel shotgun, etc. If you make more than a few per year, you risk being classified as a manufacturer, which would be a "bad thing."
As for the 3-D printer pulling their lease, I understand that they would be concerned about liability, but I fail to see how they're going to insulate themselves from their customers' ability to "do bad things" with output from the machine. Will the next software update just print "ERROR - PC LOAD LETTER" on the display to prevent customers from possibly making something dangerous?
- Manager1: "Definitely no sharp edges ..."
- Manager2: "No sharp corners, either."
- SwEng: "So round edges are okay?"
- Mnaager1: "Hmm, no. Can't allow anything that could be used as a projectile."
- SwEng: [sigh] -
Re:Politics
BS.
Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?
With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105] link
-
Re:Need federal license
False:
Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle?
With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing -
Re:not an opinionActually such limits are found in very few states. There is a thriving gun smithing community that already trades CAD files for CNC machining of entire firearms. If it doesn't enter commerce through sales or transfers (giving), the ability of Federal and State government to regulate this are quite limited. How are they to know what I'm using my printer for? For that matter they are targeting this to a printer model that can print itself. A printer that can be reproduced outside the realm of regulatory controls and thus so would everything printed on the printer be outside regulatory controls.
Oh and the ATF even states that according to the Gun Control Act of 1968, the requirement to place a serial on a firearm does not apply to anyone making a gun for their own use.For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
Found on this FAQ
-
Re:Criminal Investigation
BATFE Form 1 - Application to Make and Register a Firearm. It's mostly about paying the associated tax.
-
Re:Strong enough plastics?
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing "Q: Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency. [18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]" Therefor, as long as you are building your own gun and it doesn't fit the definition of non-sporting semi-auto rifle or non-sporting shotgun (both of which are fairly narrow) and you aren't using restricted imported parts, you can build any firearm you want as long as it also doesn't fit the definition of an NFA firearm (machine guns, destructive devices, suppressors, etc.)
-
Re:Won't get farThat wont happen until someone passes law governing the activity. And its an absolute certainty that the law would be taken to the supreme court.
There's nothing illegal about developing a firearm for your personal use.
From the ATF website here : http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.htmlQ: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news? For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.
The GCA, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.Since it is generally the reciever of the weapon that has the serial number, and the law specifically states that you can legally assemble (build/create/construct) a reciever...
The limitations here would probably be applied in the case of weapons that would be illegal by their nature (sawed off shotguns, fully auto assault weapons, etc.) under these sectionsFinally, the GCA, 18 U.S.C. 922(r), specifically states the following:
It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under the[GCA]Section 925(d)(3).as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes . Also, 27 C.F.R. 478.39 states:
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ., -
Re:Sounds like win-win to me!
However, if he kept the gun and they found out he would have problems because guns, shipped via mail, need to be shipped to a FFL licensed dealer.
Exception: C&R License. If a gun falls under the C&R classification, and a gun collector has a C&R license, then the gun can be shipped to the collector's house. And before you all go on about C&Rs being all bolt action and what not, please note that there a few semi auto hand guns that are C&R classfied including the CZ-82 Makarov.
-
Re:Wide range of bans, restrictions and prohibitioI believe the tens-of-thousands into Mexico story has been debunked.
More to the point, however please see the Interim 2011 numbers - http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/afmer/2011-interim-firearms-manufacturing-export-report.pdf - that shows almost 6.4 million firearms manufactured in the US in 2011. Only 290k were exported.
That means more than 6 million new guns were manufactured and stayed in the US in 2011 (and that doesn't count all of the ones manufactured abroad and imported).
6 million.
A couple of people a few quarts shy of a gallon shoot up a few people, it makes news.
What doesn't make news is the other 6 million NEW firearms NOT used in a crime, or the 270 million other (existing) firearms ALSO not used in a crime.
Seems to me, guns must be pretty safe.
-
Re:But ...
These stats are actually misrepresented. If you read the primary source, the 99k figure is the total count of all weapons that were given to ATF to be traced over 5 years, and 68k is the amount they could trace to US. However, the ATF isn't given every single gun that is recovered - it is generally only handed over to them when there is some suspicion that it may be traceable by them (e.g. the firearm has US-mandated markings on it). Quoting the relevant bits from Wikipedia:
"In response to a 2009 GAO report that claimed 87% of Mexican crime guns traced to U.S. origins, the DHS pointed out that DHS officials believe that the 87 percent statistic is misleading (i.e.: out of approximately 30,000 weapons seized in Mexico, approximately 4,000 could be traced and 87 percent of those—3,480—originated in the United States)."
"On February 2008, William Hoover, Assistant Director for Field Operations of ATF, testified before the U.S. Congress that over 90% of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico originated from various sources within the United States.[136] The U.S. Department of Homeland Security and others have disagreed with these figures, pointing that the Mexican sample submitted for ATF tracing is the fraction of weapons seized that appear to have been made in the U.S. or imported into the U.S."
If you can find the stats for total count of weapons that were recovered, such that we can take the figures from ATF report and arrive at the real percentage, it would be nice. I don't see that data anywhere, though - everyone seems to be just rehashing the press release which conveniently omits the "submitted for tracing" parts. Does Mexican police publish crime stats online?
-
Re:Handmade weapons need paper work too.
By fabricating the lower receiver this gunsmith just made a new custom firearm (legal), but did not serialize it (illegal). Also a crappy plastic gun.
Incorrect. You can make a firearm for yourself without a serial number. If it is for somebody else (retail, etc.) you need a manufacturer's license and all must be serialized. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#commercial-parts-assembly
-
Re:Some _parts_ are classed as machine guns
Look at the ``Lightning Link'' graphic here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html
http://www.atf.gov/graphics/firearms/weapons/fullsize/conversion-part-lightning-link.jpg
Technical details here for the morbidly curious, though there's some questioning the legality of this classification.
There's not much question as to the legality of BATFE's decision, if you are in possession of an AR15 and an unregistered lightning link prepare for a decade long trip to club fed.
An interesting note: in 2004 the BATFE declared your shoe laces to be machine guns. -
Re:Some _parts_ are classed as machine guns
Look at the ``Lightning Link'' graphic here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html
http://www.atf.gov/graphics/firearms/weapons/fullsize/conversion-part-lightning-link.jpg
Technical details here for the morbidly curious, though there's some questioning the legality of this classification.
There's not much question as to the legality of BATFE's decision, if you are in possession of an AR15 and an unregistered lightning link prepare for a decade long trip to club fed.
An interesting note: in 2004 the BATFE declared your shoe laces to be machine guns. -
Durability
There is a reason why firearm manufacturers create parts out of single bar stock aluminum or steel metal pieces and machine them out, that is to maintain durability during firing process of the gun so it doesn't explode in your hands and injure you or worse and that it will last over repeated uses.
The most difficult part of creating the gun is the creation of the barrel with a chamber that can withstand pressures of 22,000 to 55,000 pounds-per-inch and not explode into shrapnel hurting you badly. Barrel creation is difficult and taken very seriously with many manufacturers using a magnetic particle inspection process to ensure that there are no metal weak points or fractures inside the walls of the barrels to prevent them from exploding.
Until these low priced home 3D printing machines can print out of aluminum, steel, or other metals to maintain some kind of rigidity on the parts these printed firearm pieces will just be an exercise in computer aided design and prototyping. Many of the pistols now use plastic frames
As far as legality of manufacturing your own firearm by people who are somehow restricted by law from owning one, well it's the possession and ownership that is restricted, not the creation so all possession restrictions still apply.
You can create your own firearms according to the Gun Control Act of 1968 for personal usage just not sale or distribution. If you decide to make these 3D printed firearm receivers you would have to apply for a Federal Firearms License type 7 or 10 and register your business then put serial numbers on these parts.
US BATFE (aka, ATF, BATF)
Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution."
-
Some _parts_ are classed as machine guns
Look at the ``Lightning Link'' graphic here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html
http://www.atf.gov/graphics/firearms/weapons/fullsize/conversion-part-lightning-link.jpg
Technical details here for the morbidly curious, though there's some questioning the legality of this classification.
-
Some _parts_ are classed as machine guns
Look at the ``Lightning Link'' graphic here:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html
http://www.atf.gov/graphics/firearms/weapons/fullsize/conversion-part-lightning-link.jpg
Technical details here for the morbidly curious, though there's some questioning the legality of this classification.
-
Re:Of course as a counter example
It's illegal to buy handguns out-of-state, but not most long guns. See:
-
Re:Wrong.
-
Re:Okay, so . . .
ATF implemented Project Gunrunner in 2006
googling for "fast and the furious" would lead to a mess of irrelevant results. and no relevant ones, probably.
-
Re:I need drugs, weapons and hookers
Where do I sign up?
-
Re:That's just it - safety and workplace laws
The BATF can inspect at any time for compliance to laws and regulations, http://www.atf.gov/publications/factsheets/factsheet-ffl-compliance.html. They are not looking for safety issues and do not need a warrant.
-
National Firearms Act (NFA) for Machine Guns
@ arth1
It is unfortunate that you got your misinformation from the mass media about the source of weapons used in the Mexican drug war, most of that misinformation comes from the anti-gun campaigns who spread it through our mass media networks and which then are repeated by the politicians. The weapons used in the drug war are military type weapons that are fully-automatic rifles and carbines along with some grenades and grenade launcher attachments. These weapons are smuggled into Mexico from other Latin American countries left over after their civil wars or sold by corrupt government officials, from overseas by gun dealers from Asia, Middle East, or Eastern Europe, and captured or taken from willing and unwilling Mexican authorities themselves. A small amount of the weapons do come from the United States because it is the largest producer of modern weapons but very few if any weapons come from the ordinary citizens themselves due to the restrictions and sheer prices that I outline below.
Source: LMGTFY - Mexican Drug War Gun Seizure
National Firearms Act (NFA)
In the United States the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, amended in 1968, and updated in 1986 controls the purchase and ownership of grenades (aka destructive devices), sound suppressors and parts (aka silencers), short-barreled rifles and shotguns (aka SBRs), fully-automatic guns (aka machine guns). There is a prohibition in effect since May 19, 1986 that prevents the possession and purchase of fully-automatic rifles and carbines (aka "machine guns") by non-government entities (i.e. ordinary citizens) so any machine guns owned by ordinary citizens are usually old guns manufactured and imported before then. There are State laws that also govern the ownership of such weapons that must be followed but most of states in the union do not put any restrictions on the right of ordinary citizens to possess such firearms.
Source: Bureau of Alcohol, Tabaco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) - National Firearms Act (NFA)
How To Purchase a Machine Gun, Silencer, or Short-Barreled Rifle/Shotgun Legally!
The NFA allows for the purchase and possession of such devices by ordinary citizens by the completion of ATF Form 1 (5320.1) and the payment of a $200 fee for a tax stamp (a fee that has not changed since 1934!). However, the completion line 13. Law Enforcement Certification on the form requires the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer that is neigh impossible in many urban or even rural locations, but that can be bypassed by the creation of a Living Trust and assigning the NFA regulated weapon to the Trust and making yourself a trustee and giving yourself the power to possess and use the weapon on behalf of the Trust that can be accomplished for as little as $100 online or a bit more if done by an actual lawyer.
So it is possible for an ordinary citizen to purchase such a weapon but this requires a little bit of paperwork, fingerprinting, a $200 fee for the tax stamp, and $100 or more for the creation of a Trust.
Source:
ATF Form 1 (5320.1) - Application to Make and Register a Firearm,
ATF Form 4 (5320.4) - Application for Tax paid Transfer and Registration of FirearmExpensive Prices for Pre-1986 Machine Guns - $6K, $13K, $18K
The 1986 restriction on machine guns prevents the sale of modern manufactured machine guns so the prices on pre-1986 guns follow economic market scarcity rules since no more can be made available and their prices are highly inflated due to this restriction well above the actual value of the firearm. The most desirab
-
National Firearms Act (NFA) for Machine Guns
@ arth1
It is unfortunate that you got your misinformation from the mass media about the source of weapons used in the Mexican drug war, most of that misinformation comes from the anti-gun campaigns who spread it through our mass media networks and which then are repeated by the politicians. The weapons used in the drug war are military type weapons that are fully-automatic rifles and carbines along with some grenades and grenade launcher attachments. These weapons are smuggled into Mexico from other Latin American countries left over after their civil wars or sold by corrupt government officials, from overseas by gun dealers from Asia, Middle East, or Eastern Europe, and captured or taken from willing and unwilling Mexican authorities themselves. A small amount of the weapons do come from the United States because it is the largest producer of modern weapons but very few if any weapons come from the ordinary citizens themselves due to the restrictions and sheer prices that I outline below.
Source: LMGTFY - Mexican Drug War Gun Seizure
National Firearms Act (NFA)
In the United States the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, amended in 1968, and updated in 1986 controls the purchase and ownership of grenades (aka destructive devices), sound suppressors and parts (aka silencers), short-barreled rifles and shotguns (aka SBRs), fully-automatic guns (aka machine guns). There is a prohibition in effect since May 19, 1986 that prevents the possession and purchase of fully-automatic rifles and carbines (aka "machine guns") by non-government entities (i.e. ordinary citizens) so any machine guns owned by ordinary citizens are usually old guns manufactured and imported before then. There are State laws that also govern the ownership of such weapons that must be followed but most of states in the union do not put any restrictions on the right of ordinary citizens to possess such firearms.
Source: Bureau of Alcohol, Tabaco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) - National Firearms Act (NFA)
How To Purchase a Machine Gun, Silencer, or Short-Barreled Rifle/Shotgun Legally!
The NFA allows for the purchase and possession of such devices by ordinary citizens by the completion of ATF Form 1 (5320.1) and the payment of a $200 fee for a tax stamp (a fee that has not changed since 1934!). However, the completion line 13. Law Enforcement Certification on the form requires the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer that is neigh impossible in many urban or even rural locations, but that can be bypassed by the creation of a Living Trust and assigning the NFA regulated weapon to the Trust and making yourself a trustee and giving yourself the power to possess and use the weapon on behalf of the Trust that can be accomplished for as little as $100 online or a bit more if done by an actual lawyer.
So it is possible for an ordinary citizen to purchase such a weapon but this requires a little bit of paperwork, fingerprinting, a $200 fee for the tax stamp, and $100 or more for the creation of a Trust.
Source:
ATF Form 1 (5320.1) - Application to Make and Register a Firearm,
ATF Form 4 (5320.4) - Application for Tax paid Transfer and Registration of FirearmExpensive Prices for Pre-1986 Machine Guns - $6K, $13K, $18K
The 1986 restriction on machine guns prevents the sale of modern manufactured machine guns so the prices on pre-1986 guns follow economic market scarcity rules since no more can be made available and their prices are highly inflated due to this restriction well above the actual value of the firearm. The most desirab
-
National Firearms Act (NFA) for Machine Guns
@ arth1
It is unfortunate that you got your misinformation from the mass media about the source of weapons used in the Mexican drug war, most of that misinformation comes from the anti-gun campaigns who spread it through our mass media networks and which then are repeated by the politicians. The weapons used in the drug war are military type weapons that are fully-automatic rifles and carbines along with some grenades and grenade launcher attachments. These weapons are smuggled into Mexico from other Latin American countries left over after their civil wars or sold by corrupt government officials, from overseas by gun dealers from Asia, Middle East, or Eastern Europe, and captured or taken from willing and unwilling Mexican authorities themselves. A small amount of the weapons do come from the United States because it is the largest producer of modern weapons but very few if any weapons come from the ordinary citizens themselves due to the restrictions and sheer prices that I outline below.
Source: LMGTFY - Mexican Drug War Gun Seizure
National Firearms Act (NFA)
In the United States the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, amended in 1968, and updated in 1986 controls the purchase and ownership of grenades (aka destructive devices), sound suppressors and parts (aka silencers), short-barreled rifles and shotguns (aka SBRs), fully-automatic guns (aka machine guns). There is a prohibition in effect since May 19, 1986 that prevents the possession and purchase of fully-automatic rifles and carbines (aka "machine guns") by non-government entities (i.e. ordinary citizens) so any machine guns owned by ordinary citizens are usually old guns manufactured and imported before then. There are State laws that also govern the ownership of such weapons that must be followed but most of states in the union do not put any restrictions on the right of ordinary citizens to possess such firearms.
Source: Bureau of Alcohol, Tabaco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) - National Firearms Act (NFA)
How To Purchase a Machine Gun, Silencer, or Short-Barreled Rifle/Shotgun Legally!
The NFA allows for the purchase and possession of such devices by ordinary citizens by the completion of ATF Form 1 (5320.1) and the payment of a $200 fee for a tax stamp (a fee that has not changed since 1934!). However, the completion line 13. Law Enforcement Certification on the form requires the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer that is neigh impossible in many urban or even rural locations, but that can be bypassed by the creation of a Living Trust and assigning the NFA regulated weapon to the Trust and making yourself a trustee and giving yourself the power to possess and use the weapon on behalf of the Trust that can be accomplished for as little as $100 online or a bit more if done by an actual lawyer.
So it is possible for an ordinary citizen to purchase such a weapon but this requires a little bit of paperwork, fingerprinting, a $200 fee for the tax stamp, and $100 or more for the creation of a Trust.
Source:
ATF Form 1 (5320.1) - Application to Make and Register a Firearm,
ATF Form 4 (5320.4) - Application for Tax paid Transfer and Registration of FirearmExpensive Prices for Pre-1986 Machine Guns - $6K, $13K, $18K
The 1986 restriction on machine guns prevents the sale of modern manufactured machine guns so the prices on pre-1986 guns follow economic market scarcity rules since no more can be made available and their prices are highly inflated due to this restriction well above the actual value of the firearm. The most desirab
-
National Firearms Act (NFA) for Machine Guns
@ arth1
It is unfortunate that you got your misinformation from the mass media about the source of weapons used in the Mexican drug war, most of that misinformation comes from the anti-gun campaigns who spread it through our mass media networks and which then are repeated by the politicians. The weapons used in the drug war are military type weapons that are fully-automatic rifles and carbines along with some grenades and grenade launcher attachments. These weapons are smuggled into Mexico from other Latin American countries left over after their civil wars or sold by corrupt government officials, from overseas by gun dealers from Asia, Middle East, or Eastern Europe, and captured or taken from willing and unwilling Mexican authorities themselves. A small amount of the weapons do come from the United States because it is the largest producer of modern weapons but very few if any weapons come from the ordinary citizens themselves due to the restrictions and sheer prices that I outline below.
Source: LMGTFY - Mexican Drug War Gun Seizure
National Firearms Act (NFA)
In the United States the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, amended in 1968, and updated in 1986 controls the purchase and ownership of grenades (aka destructive devices), sound suppressors and parts (aka silencers), short-barreled rifles and shotguns (aka SBRs), fully-automatic guns (aka machine guns). There is a prohibition in effect since May 19, 1986 that prevents the possession and purchase of fully-automatic rifles and carbines (aka "machine guns") by non-government entities (i.e. ordinary citizens) so any machine guns owned by ordinary citizens are usually old guns manufactured and imported before then. There are State laws that also govern the ownership of such weapons that must be followed but most of states in the union do not put any restrictions on the right of ordinary citizens to possess such firearms.
Source: Bureau of Alcohol, Tabaco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) - National Firearms Act (NFA)
How To Purchase a Machine Gun, Silencer, or Short-Barreled Rifle/Shotgun Legally!
The NFA allows for the purchase and possession of such devices by ordinary citizens by the completion of ATF Form 1 (5320.1) and the payment of a $200 fee for a tax stamp (a fee that has not changed since 1934!). However, the completion line 13. Law Enforcement Certification on the form requires the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer that is neigh impossible in many urban or even rural locations, but that can be bypassed by the creation of a Living Trust and assigning the NFA regulated weapon to the Trust and making yourself a trustee and giving yourself the power to possess and use the weapon on behalf of the Trust that can be accomplished for as little as $100 online or a bit more if done by an actual lawyer.
So it is possible for an ordinary citizen to purchase such a weapon but this requires a little bit of paperwork, fingerprinting, a $200 fee for the tax stamp, and $100 or more for the creation of a Trust.
Source:
ATF Form 1 (5320.1) - Application to Make and Register a Firearm,
ATF Form 4 (5320.4) - Application for Tax paid Transfer and Registration of FirearmExpensive Prices for Pre-1986 Machine Guns - $6K, $13K, $18K
The 1986 restriction on machine guns prevents the sale of modern manufactured machine guns so the prices on pre-1986 guns follow economic market scarcity rules since no more can be made available and their prices are highly inflated due to this restriction well above the actual value of the firearm. The most desirab
-
Re:American Guns!! Yay NRA!!
Not entirely incorrect but misleading. You do not have to have an FFL[SOT] to own a transferable machine gun. All you need to do is find a pre-may 1986 machine gun for sale, fill out your form 4 and associated forms, send the BATFE a check for $200, and wait 4-6 months for the paperwork to come back.
-
Re: my MIT classmates do software; none majored in
Engineers get so wrapped up in problem solving that their solutions look rather much like this
-
Re:Prosecute the parents
There are only about 2x as many cars sold each year as guns. About 50% of all households have a gun (I know this might come as a shock to leftie-liberals, but it's true).
A gun doesn't have to be shot to be useful. Deterrent value is the primary value of a gun anywhere off the battlefield. There's no way to capture the statistics about how many people weren't killed, how many women weren't rapped, how many people weren't beaten, how many robberies and burglaries and thefts didn't occur because the would-be perpetrator was confronted by, or just concerned about the possibility of, a gun.
new cars: http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_12.html
new guns: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2006.pdf
number guns: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp -
Which databases?
There are multiple databases at the state level and, at the federal level, NCIC is the one that contains warrant information. Many times a request goes out from NCIC (and other similar systems at CJIS) and days or months go by without a state returning information to the system operators so they can update records. Requests go out to courts and DAs without timely responses. The accuracy of the federal databases are therefore held at the whim of the state agencies and their personnel. The feds make attempts to keep their databases up-to-date but without state support it isn't going to happen. There are many other federal databases however beyond NCIC which hold other types of data and whose personnel communicate with other federal level agencies to maintain accuracy (e.g. BATF) which do have their own problems.
-
Re:Zoning gone wild.
Actually, zoning laws don't necessarily come into play in the storage of explosives. Depending on the class of explosive you're licensed to carry, you're required by that license to have a bunker that meets guidelines to store those explosives, specifically to prevent chain reactions to other bunkers and surrounding areas, including people, but the BATF can't say much if it's your own property.
Here's the BATF laws and regulations regarding explosives: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/exlawreg/fullvers.pdf -
Re:Not free for everyone
No, that's crazy. You don't need a license or anything to brew beer in your home for personal use. Federal post-prohibition laws specifically allow for home breweries, and some limits to the amount (200 gallons per year).
Due to this specific Federal law, there is not state or local jurisdiction that can get away with outlawing it.
While federal law allows people to home brew it also allows states to allow or make it illegal, check ATF Online FAQ. Specifically read:
"4. You must operate Brew-on-Premises business in compliance with State and local laws. The ability to produce beer for personal or family use and without payment of tax at a BOP under Federal law does not authorize production of beer by adults, or operation of a BOP business, in violation of state or local law."As someone posted above yours Alabama is one of the states where homebrewing is illegal.
Falcon -
Re:Not free for everyone
In most U.S. states, brewing beer for personal/family use is okay without a license. What's considered personal/family use? In most states, it's a LOT of beer. Like 200 gallons per calendar year by ATF regs -- this is the same for most U.S. states.
-
Re:Not free for everyone
Utah seems to require one, even for personal brewing, although if you're wanting to sell it commercially, I think you have to register with the ATF as they will want to TAX you. http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/beer.htm has more info
-
Re:I always figured the 'shiners would play a role
You only have to fill out some forms with the Gistapo BATF, registering your still, prove you're not going to burn your house down, and you can burn it in your tank all day long:
http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/genalcohol.htm
Spirits may be produced for nonbeverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive ATF's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.
Basically, don't build the still in your house. Keep records and don't sell it (in any way that can be tracked) and you're fine. You only have to register your still once, and re-register if you enbiggen it. The process is simple and been done by loads of regular folks. -
Sign up for WTF2. Hacked machines that could get updated, but people fearing that MS sends the FBI, CIA and WTF after them if they only attempt to update. Where do I sign up for that last one? Jobs at Bureau of Whiskey, Tobacco, and Firearms
-
Re:Why US citizenship?
The short answer is "It's the law." Here's the long answer:
UMR offers an Explosives Engineering emphasis within the Mining Engineering degree program. Certain key courses require either U.S. citizenship or permanent resident alien status, in compliance with the Safe Explosives Act (one part of the Homeland Security Act of 2002). http://www.atf.gov/explarson/safexpact/
If you want to be a mining engineer but can't get permanent resident alien status, you are not excluded from the entire university or even from the Mining Engineering department. You simply cannot get that particular minor. Since UMR is the only institution in the country offering that minor, it could hardly be considered essential to ones career.
ghoul: True, the article says that Dr. Worsey is British (and stocky), but what leads you to think he isn't a U.S. citizen? If not, he would likely be a permanent resident alien, since he clearly has long term employment in the U.S.
-
PreventableThis is something to consider... When you purchase an over-the counter gun in the U.S., you are required to fill out Form 4473. Question 12 f asks,
"Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"
All the purchaser has to do is answer "no". If they answer "yes", they will not be permitted to purchase the gun.
Next an instant background check is made, however, only the purchaser's criminal record is checked. In the U.S., due to privacy laws, their mental competancy, (or lack thereof) is not checked. We are basically relying on the purchaser to understand their mental state, and to tell the truth about it. Talk about crazy!!! -
Re:More Guns?
We're calling for school campuses to stop being one of the last places in the country where someone determined to cause mayhem is guaranteed to find a completely defenseless population of targets.
If administrators, teachers and students over 21, provided they are not federally prohibited persons (refer to section 12 of the link), could have guns for the defense of themselves and those under their authority, the mayhem-seekers would go where the target population is easier, like a federal building. The possibility that one out of twenty students could be legally packing, and he can't tell which one, is what will deter him/her.
I don't need a lethal weapon to feel safe. I need the lethal weapon for that one in a ten thousand situation when nothing but a lethal weapon is suitable. I know CPR is case someone has a heart attack and the EMTs are ten minutes away. I know first aid in case someone cuts themselves badly and the EMTs are still ten minutes away. I know how to use a fire extinguisher because the firemen are STILL ten minutes away. Why in the name off all that is reasonable must I wait fifteen to thirty minutes for armed men (i.e. police) to show up, assuming that they're not too busy, to deal with the maniac that is interested in causing me potentially lethal harm? Why should your daughter have to wait even five minutes for the cops while a 220-lb rapist does what his superior strength will allow? Everyone is their own first responder. If you can't comprehend that, please make sure that you only have a heart attack, catch on fire, or get beaten with a stick in the presence of a government servant of the correct type.
-
Two Semi-Automatic Pistols were used
"Semi-automatic" just means it's ready to fire another shot as soon as you release the trigger. In other words, it goes bang each time the trigger is pulled with no other action required (at least, until you need to reload).
My hunting rifle -- goes bang each time I pull the trigger (a semi-automatic).
My hunting shotgun -- goes bang each time I pull the trigger (a semi-automatic).
My brother's hunting shotgun -- goes bang each time he pumps it after pulling (and holding the trigger) the first time (a older Model 12 Winchester operating as designed).
And just to really confuse things -- my revolver goes bang each time I pull the trigger (double-action revolver).
And I've seen my father shoot a pump shotgun accurately faster than I can shoot a semi-automatic shotgun. He's just really well practiced at it.
It's nowhere near as easy to buy fully automatic firearms as you think it is. Check into it at the ATF web site.
-
Re:What a good idea
Firearm ownership rights, on the federal level, have not deteriorated at all.
Importation rights sure have been affected...
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/071305openletter.htm
ATF will no longer approve ATF Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled. No exceptions to the statutory language, for example for "repair or replacement" of existing firearms, will be allowed. -
Re:more then the background check...
Typically you just need a container like the kind on container ships for your magazine. Then there are some requirements for distance from homes, schools, buildings, etc. Having such a magazine is a prerequisite to getting your ATF license. Further than that you have various state and local ordinances. It's not at all unreasonable to keep people from having explosives and flammable powders in quantity in the middle of an urban area.
Furthermore, they've already clarified that part 555 does not apply to ammonium perchlorate motors 62.5 grams and less. Any bigger, you need a permit. It's not crazy, anything bigger than an Estes is DANGEROUS and they want to make sure you're prepared to handle the responsibility of storage, transport and use of explosives before they let you do it.
However, under the guise of "terrorism" a lot of state and local places have clamped down, which is crazy. But it's still America and you can get a license for anything here (except marijuana).