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They Do, but they are anything but affordable, which makes the name of the page that much more laughable. Scroll up, they call them "Affordable World Packages." Yep, like affordable legal representation, affordable 24 month car loans, and affordable ethanol, right?

Almost any GSM phone does. As far as the phone is concerned, you could use it as a fax machine if you want. (if it supports CSD, you actually can). However, ATT no longer supports this protocol:

ATT No Longer Provisions Accounts for Circuit Switched Data. Of couse, who knows except for the people who use it? I'm not provisioned for PAM, but I can, (and do with no surcharge), anyhow). MAYBE possible, but not supported, and don't tell ATT your doing it, or ever them for technical support regarding CSD. A perfect example is that pulse dialing is no longer officially supported by telephone makers, (no real need), but I can still place a call, (if need be), by rapidly depressing the switch to mimic a pulse telephone. Not exactly a supported method, but it works to get the call through.

They(AT&T) charge per kilobit. Almost all network transfer rates are measured (and advertised) in bits, not bytes.

Except network transfer rates == speed. Network transfer rates != volume.

Furthermore, according to their site, they charge by the Kilobyte (KB), not the Kilobit (Kb): http://www.wireless.att.com/businesscenter/popup/dataconnect-comp-table.jsp

"1,024 kilobytes (KB) = 1 megabyte (MB). For coverage information and maps, please see a sales representative or visit att.com/wirelesscoveragemap or att.com/wirelessbroadbandconnect."

"CANADA AND INTERNATIONAL ROAMING: Additional data for Canada roaming per KB is $0.015; International roaming per KB is $0.0195."

I spotted an AT&T webpage that says "$0.005/KB (approximately $5/MB) coverage rate in the set of DataConnect Global countries (on select carriers)." [ http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/international/roaming/affordable-world-packages.jsp ] ...as an example of their math.

$5 per mb = 1/10 of a cent per kb. (And $5k/gb)

$0.005/kb = 1/2 cent per kb.

AT&T has some serious backpedaling to do. None of this adds up...

If you look at many cell phone contracts, they do in fact decrease the early termination fee (recovering the value of the subsidy) by an incremental amount each month, such that an early termination results in a roughly pro-rata recoupment of the subsidy.

In the US, that's mostly because courts and legislators, starting in California, forced them to.

Slightly o/t, I'd like to see a court ruling about the massive non-linearity in the price for cellular data when you go over your monthly quota - for instance AT&T DataConnect costs $60 for the first 5GB, but then they charge "0.00048/KB" thereafter. I don't know if that second figure is in dollars or cents - they don't say - but that means the price increases by a factor of either 5760 or 57.6. Either number is insane.

The other thing I'd like to see is a ruling or law that limits maximum overage charges to some multiple of your base monthly bill. I find it repugnant that cell carriers are allowed to send people $18,000+ invoices for services that are advertised as costing only $60 monthly.

Industry apologists have tried to argue that these charges are due to network transit costs; the service providers use this obscene billing structure because that is the billing structure that has been inflicted on them by their network operators. I don't buy this argument for a second. AT&T, Verizon, etc., are enormous companies with sufficient resources and bargaining power to change these contracts. I believe they simply haven't bothered to, because they have decided that the current situation suits them well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_termination_fee .

Note that AT&T prorates their early termination fee (see the AT&T Service Agreement).

Also, if they (AT&T) changes the contract (for example, by raising a fee), you have 30 days to cancel your service with them without incurring an early termination fee. However, I have no idea if you still have to pay the subsidy for the cell phone.

Hmmm, I went to http://www.att.com/ and saw the huge iPhone 3GS flash banner smack dab in the middle of the page. Not sure which AT&T website you went to. (or when)

Misleading, because Verizon != VerizonWireless. US Verizon is a minority holder (Vodafone is the majority owner), and so the profit margin for Verizon as a whole isn't reflective of the profit margin of the Wireless division.

Same deal with Sprint; the wireless division uses the same brand name, but is actually a separate company.

As for TFA, What's next? My best guess is that we'll see horrendous pricing surcharges for tethering and MMS, on top of the already expensive data and voice charges iPhone users pay.

In other words, he's pulling right out of his ass, and doesn't have any direct evidence that AT&T intends to actually setup and maintain a separate billing structure for iPhone data and MMS.

I think probably the bigger issue for AT&T is that their proprietary client software doesn't support OS X. The Steve would not be happy if his baby can only support tethered Windows notebooks.

AT&T has the same 'stupid tax'

http://www.wireless.att.com/businesscenter/iPhone3G/index.jsp

You and I both know it doesn't cost them even remotely close to 95$ a month for your service - their profit margins are obscene

The per-connection margins are pretty good, yes, but it gets eaten up by operating expenses pretty fast. Take a look at AT&T's financials. In 2008, they had $124,028 million in revenue, but only $12,867 million in net income, or about 10%. That's pretty good, but it's not fantastic, either. Google was at 29% in 2006, though that dipped to only 19% in 2008.

According to AT&T's announcement from 2008, their current early termination fee is 175 dollars minus 5 dollars per month that the contract was completed. For half-way through a 2-year contract, that's 115 dollars.

So if you are thinking of paying the extra money and upgrading your phone, first pay the 115 bucks and cancel your account. Then apply for a new account with the no-contract discount. Instead of paying 399 for the phone, you'll only pay 314, or a savings of 85 dollars.

How does one user complaining about upgrade policies on a forum, with almost all the other users thinking the policies aren't so bad, qualify as a "collective sense of entitlement"?

It is probably so you end up with 5GB as part of your monthly data when tethered with a higher rate when you exceed that instead of "unlimited" that all the non-tethered plans claim.

Even with the non-tethered plans with AT&T that list as unlimited for data transfer (instead of 5GB included then about $0.49/MB after if you have a tethered plan) in the fine print they say that they can charge you if you exceed 5GB in a month.

(Don't believe that? Go here and search for "if you use more than 5 GB in a month" It exists for Dataconnect, and PDA/Blackberry plans with tethering. No mention of iPhone right now, but give it time)

A comment I wrote a few days back here goes a tad more into numbers about those data rates and what it would take to hit them as well as costs.

Uh as far as I know it wont be the first, my sister has had a Samsung Impression for 2+ months and it has a f'n gorgeous AMOLED screen. Samsung Impression http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=Samsung+Impression&q_sku=sku3680237/ (I am neither a samsung nor an at&t shill)

Even if we assume that their speed claims are true, the benefit of this new product will be severely limited if ATT Wireless retains their currently policy of charging $0.25/MB once users hit their monthly limit of 5GB.

I've been looking at AT&T plans online because they buy every fucking cellphone company I get service from anyway (and they own every tower worth a fuck in my county, too... since buying Edge Wireless) and they advertise "Unlimited Data" with the "PDA Personal" option. The version of PDA Personal "with tethering" is advertised as 5GB. I searched the plan terms for "unlimited" and none of the limitations seemed to apply to data.

So, just to clarify, is the "Unlimited" plan limited to 5GB? Or do these complaints only apply to the tethered connections? Further, if you get a tethered plan, do you still get unlimited data to your handheld? And finally, is there something like SLIRP of old that will let you effectively have unlimited tethered data anyway? I'm seriously thinking about getting the refurb HTC Fuze on the premise that it will probably run Angstrom someday. Some other HTC devices seem to be working...

1) replace Qt memory management with TR1::shared_ptr (or boost).

2) replace Qt collections with STL collections.

3) replace Qt threads with boost::threads.

4) replace Qt signals and slots with boost::signals.

In other words, make Qt play nice with STL and boost, which are the foundations for developing C++ code these days.

So it doesn't play nice with them right now?

You'll be waiting for Qt5 for that kind of stuff.

I think this will be about the time C++0x gets mainstream. Breaking Qt source compatibility before that is just not worth it.

...losing more money to his cell phone bill

1994 called on this to say this particular unemployed college student had only a land line ;-)

The iPhone generally costs $600 over two years more than devices priced at standard At&t voice rates.

I call BS. Apple has no special voice plans for the iPhone that are "a premium". It's the same rate as every other phone on AT&T. The minimum you will pay for a new plan on AT&T is $39.99 for 450 minutes.

The iPhone generally costs $600 over two years more than devices priced at standard At&t voice rates.

I call BS. Apple has no special voice plans for the iPhone that are "a premium". It's the same rate as every other phone on AT&T. The minimum you will pay for a new plan on AT&T is $39.99 for 450 minutes.

euler - introductio in analysisin infinitorum -- brilliant work of euler from 1748 containing many striking results. english translation available.

bernhard riemann - on the number of primes less than a given magnitude -- riemann's one paper (~15 pages) on number theory, which introduced his famous zeta function (english version available in riemann's zeta function by edwards, a book dedicated to the very rich subtext of this terse paper)

shannon - a mathematical theory of communication -- seminal paper founding information theory

schrodinger -- find yourself a decent exposition of the analysis of the hydrogen atom using schrodinger wave mechanics. learn where all that junk they taught you in high school chemistry actually comes from!

Feynman Lectures on Physics -- comprehensive account from the man who knew physics as well as anyone.

ahlfors - complex analysis -- best text i know of on this subject in mathematics that shows up in the most surprising places in the sciences.

landau & lifschitz - course on theoretical physics -- 10 volumes on modern physics from classical mechanics to electrodynamics, relativity, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, fluids, etc. from nobel prize winner lev landau.

Fourier Analysis - t w korner -- intro to fourier analysis with many applications (after all, applications are the whole point of fourier analysis) from your basic heat equation stuff to calculating the age of the earth and other interesting things.

i think that in compiling this list, you will find two things to be true:
1. increasingly (in the last century, for example), important work is not (initially) published in books, but in papers.
2. trying to read the original works is fun for about 5 minutes. if you really want to learn, modern expositions in textbooks tend to be far better than the originals.

Here is the information for ATT aircards:

Aircards: Sierra Wireless 885, 881, 881u, Option GT Ultra, Ultra Express, Quicksilver
5 GB/month
60 Dollars / Month
700kbps-1.7 mbps down, ~200 ping to google (on 3g)
75kbps-125kbps down, ~300 ping to google (on 2g)


When you go over 5 gigs, data useage is charged at half a cent per KB, but service will be turned off as soon as it is detected by the switch (which can take anywhere from an hour to a week, or forever)

Coverage map:
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/

Phone support: 1-800-331-0500 (24 hours).

http://www.ctia.org/content/index.cfm/AID/10352

and here:

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/consumer-code.jsp

The seventh right is the one that says they'll let you out of the long term agreement if they change the TOS. The code may or may not have the legal weight of the TOS, but it makes for a good starting point when dealing with a customer service rep. I used it to get out of a contract about a month ago when they changed the arbitration agreement. The CRS agreed to allow me to go month-to-month. In the long run, AT&T benefitted because I used the freedon to get a bigger, better phone that required a beefier data plan, so it was win-win. Just remain polite and firm with the CSR.

More details are available here:

http://consumerist.com/228186/script-for-escaping-cingular-contracts-without-fee-based-on-new-arbitration-clause

They may have said it has since been retracted but it looks still pretty much up there to me. http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/legal/plan-terms.jsp

And they must have been pretty determined to spell it out, with all the legalese you see here, so I doubt it was an accident.

Here's the text as it is still live on their site:
Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Except as may otherwise be specifically permitted or prohibited for select data plans, data sessions may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). While most common uses for Intranet browsing, email and intranet access are permitted by your data plan, there are certain uses that cause extreme network capacity issues and interference with the network and are therefore prohibited. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines, landlines or full-time or dedicated data connections; (iii) "auto-responders," "cancel-bots," or similar automated or manual routines which generate excessive amounts of net traffic, or which disrupt net user groups or email use by others; (iv) "spam" or unsolicited commercial or bulk email (or activities that have the effect of facilitating unsolicited commercial email or unsolicited bulk email); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other people or systems to use either AT&T's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the accounts of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, security measures of AT&T's wireless network or another entity's network or systems; (vii) software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer's connection would otherwise be idle or any "keep alive" functions, unless they adhere to AT&T's data retry requirements, which may be changed from time to time. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services, web broadcasting, and/or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices is prohibited. Furthermore, plans(unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/PDA-to computer accessories, Bluetooth® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent. You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are not for resale. AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies.

Maybe not for RIAA stuff, but for the first time in a DECADE (I'm including Mediaone, Roadrunner, AT&T, and Comcast- ie all the various incarnations of the same cable company here) they're suddenly strictly enforcing their policies regarding hosting services. If you have any incoming SMTP or WWW traffic, expect to be canned if you haven't been already...even if it is for personal use.

While I have definitely seen restrictions on running "servers" in Comcast's TOS, I am consistently unable to find them in AT&T's. This is one of the major reasons that I am currently an AT&T customer, and not a Comcast customer (my two choices at the moment).

I don't have the DSL service anymore, but at the time I read through the TOS and was unable to find "no server" clauses. I currently have uVerse, and am likewise unable to find any "no server" clauses in that TOS.

Lets do a little math with AT&T's contract

• $36 activation fee for each new line
• $175 early termination fee of contract
• $199 8G iPhone w/2yr contract
• $411 to get an iPhone via broken contract

Or I could spend $599 for one without a contract, and still give AT&T a boatload of money.

And yet, you get a crippled phone, no matter how you pay.

How exactly is this a good deal?

If you think you're getting ripped off, try talking to developers who are dumping tens of thousands of dollars into developing iPhone apps only to have Apple tell them to take a hike.

All US cell phone companies require a contract.

Stop filling slashdot with crazy.

Lets do a little math with AT&T's contract

• $36 activation fee for each new line
• $175 early termination fee of contract
• $199 8G iPhone w/2yr contract
• $411 to get an iPhone via broken contract

Or I could spend $599 for one without a contract, and still give AT&T a boatload of money.

How exactly is this a good deal?

Because you aren't hurting your credit, and changes of another phone carrier doing business with you by breaking a contract.

• $36 activation fee for each new line
• $175 early termination fee of contract
• $199 8G iPhone w/2yr contract
• $411 to get an iPhone via broken contract

Or I could spend $599 for one without a contract, and still give AT&T a boatload of money.

How exactly is this a good deal?

I'm afraid a company full of PHBs beat you to the punch. Pity, too; they've monopolized my area.

I'm sure it doesn't help things that Stroussoup made this explicit in C++. So if your view is that C is a subset of C++, you'll get these trivia wrong. Unfortunately, C and C++ will penalize you for getting trivia questions wrong with great zeal.

(And in reading your link, I don't see where it claims that NULL is implementation defined. Perhaps you can offer a more specific citation?)

Try one of the pay as you go deals. You can get a phone for $10 or $20 and just pay about $0.25/minute to use it. AT&T has free calling to AT&T customers. It's a lot cheaper than the average monthly plan that will run you upwards of $400/year.

You are right, they do have all their stuff online.

http://forums.wireless.att.com/cng/board/message?board.id=cingular&thread.id=53391&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

What is the purpose of the "read out loud" right?

For disabled people with partial or no sight. For someone who is partially sighted and paralyzed, putting on a set of headphones might not be an option. Hardware manufacturers are encouraged (if not required) to make their systems usable for disabled people. A "kindle" might be the perfect system for a blind person - lightweight, easy to carry about, easy to use controls and the ability to convert text-to-speech. Of course, all of this might just put the cassette tape/CD/DVD audio book market out of business.

Current text-to-speech system already allow the user to choose the sex/age of the spoken voice. There are even some online systems that can translate small paragraphs into any number of different voices.

Two months ago I left AT&T because them implemented bandwidth caps. They capped their highest tier ("6.0Mb/s", never goes over 4.8Mb/s) at 80GB a month. They have a website up at http://broadband-usage.att.com/ that kindly shows you what APPEARS to be a 150GB/month limit (that is the limit for their "6.0Mbps" U-verse service) no matter what service you have. Delve deeper into the FAQ, and you will see the real caps. Very deceptive. The rate they charge per-GB for overages is $1.

I switched to Charter for my phone and internet, hoping to be counted by their bean-counters as a lost customer, thanks to their greed. However, it appears I have just traded one evil for another.

I called Charter three times today so far. I've spoken to two "account retention" employees and one "technical support" guy (thinking he may know his ass from a hole in the ground. I was wrong.), in addition to two supervisors.

They currently have no way for their customers to monitor their bandwidth. Even the tech support guy said he has no way to view my bandwidth.

And not one of them had heard today's news.

Not one of them could offer anything other than, "Uh, well, I dunno...".

However, I present to you the comic relief provided by Charter representatives :

When told about the story on Slashdot (Charter tech support guy): "What? On Slashnet you say?"

When told about the story on DSLReports.com (Charter account retention employee): "Sir, we're cable, not DSL."

*sigh*

Way to hold the country back. Corporate greed will always win over progress.

Feed this into this into this.

For AT&T customers in the US with 'unlimited' data plans, this is very likely against the terms of service. As long as you keep data usage light, you'll probably be fine - but if you start doing massive downloads and they look closer, your service may get terminated.

From the link:

Prohibited and permissable uses

... Furthermore, plans(unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/PDA-to computer accessories, Bluetooth® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose

If we are to believe this announcement from AT&T found here (found via reference in Wikipedia article on TDMA(D-Amps)), AT&T shut down their TDMA and Analog service in Feb 2008.

I'm not sure if any of you have actually tried to test AT&T's network coverage, but this http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/ is a very generous map for where you can get "good coverage" in the middle of the country. If you want a better idea of where you're get good coverage, zoom in one level from the furthest out. A lot of that partner coverage is subpar. Then look where their 3G coverage is. That's really where you're going to get a "great" signal. For two examples look at Wichita, or Omaha: the cities are fine, but as soon as you go outside of it, you're SOL. Same for most of the mountain-west. I just hate seeing AT&T maps with orange coverage everywhere when really, it's not. Such a crock.

Yep -

All service providers have clauses in their contracts that get them out of liability for these situations. From AT&T's wireless service agreement (go to http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/articles-resources/wireless-terms.jsp, then click on "Terms of Service"):

"WE DO NOT GUARANTEE YOU UNINTERRUPTED SERVICE OR COVERAGE. WE CANNOT ASSURE YOU THAT IF YOU PLACE A 911 CALL YOU WILL BE FOUND."
[...]

They then go on to basically say that they are not liable for any interruptions in their service for pretty much any reason.

They do state, however, that if your service is interrupted for more than 24 hours, you can call them and ask for a refund.

My experience is that even if you're out for less than 24 hours, they'll sometimes give you a small refund if you just ask nicely.

Basically, with cell providers (and consumer-grade ISPs, and anyone else that normally provides a continuous service), they obviously want to have as close to 100% uptime as they possibly can, but they don't want to be sued if they don't. These clauses in the contract prevent them from being sued... but they can't prevent them from losing customers. What keeps them as reliable as they (normally) are, is market forces. If you're too unreliable, you'll lose customers.

My ISP, who will go nameless, is a great example... Now, they've been incredibly reliable for me, but when I signed up and read their terms of service, it basically says that they could provide zero uptime for an entire billing period, and you still have to pay them. Again, I really think that's just so they can't be sued, and I have no doubt that they make every effort to keep their network up and running as well as possible.

We cant completely synthesize realistic voice from scratch yet.

We're as close with that as we are with digital actors. See http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/. It's pretty good without any editing. Some tweaking with how it provides the inflections when speaking would make it sound real. The problem is that it's all patented out the wazoo. There is a commercial offering here: http://www.wizzardsoftware.com/att_server.php.

I live in Arkansas and have the Direct Elite 6Mbps service and my bills are EXACTLY $45.00. http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=11523

Here's AT&T's packages.
I do enjoy not having to pay a list of regulatory and gov't fees, also.

Mobile Co. pricing on data connects makes no sense to me, at least here in the USA. I was checking prices at ATT, Verizon, Sprint, and T-mobile the other day.

AT&T Data plans are fairly typical (the other providers are basically the same, with the exception that none of the others offers a $20/mo 'tier'; Sprint only offers a $60/5GB tier, T-mobile offers unlimited bandwidth for $50/mo [which is the best value for data plans of all the carriers, but they have a ToS which prohibits you from doing a lot of things like P2P, hosting servers, etc on it], while Verizon offers $60/5GB and $40/50MB tiers).

From that page, you can see the following absolutely insane pricing structure:

$20/mo for a total of 10MB transfer for the whole month
$40/mo for a total of 50MB transfer for the whole month
$60/mo for a total of 5GB transfer for the whole month

Now, some interesting things to note is that somehow that phone company can afford to give you 100 TIMES more bandwidth when you go from $40/mo to $60/mo. What. the. hell? That'd be like a butcher offering you 1 lb. of steak for $10, or 100 lbs. of steak for $15. I understand the idea of 'the more you buy the more you save', but that is just freaking ridiculous. They are obviously price gouging any customer who wants to pay less than $60/mo, on a cost-per-MB basis.

It has always been my understanding that wireless networks are cheaper to build and operate than cable or telephone networks, so *why* are they charging so much? The simplest answer would be 'because they can'. In a free market, any provider of goods or services will charge as much as they can. *But*, one of the principles that they teach in High School economics classes is that price and profit form a curve. If you charge to little, you make less money, but if you charge too much, you also make less money. There is a 'sweet spot' where the price maximizes revenue.

Now, since I don't really know *anybody*, personally, who their mobile phone company to connect their laptop or desktop to the Internet, it tells me that, possibly, the mobile phone companies are seriously limiting their own growth in the ISP business. The only thing I can conclude is that the mobile phone companies, even though they have these high speed wireless data networks, can't actually handle the amount of bandwidth that they would need to compete with cable and landline telco companies.

Because, I imagine that if they offered 1 GB/mo for $20, 3GB/mo for $40, and 6GB/mo for $60, they'd have MANY more customers than they currently do, so I can only conclude that they don't want a lot of customers; they want a relatively small amount of customers, all paying $60/mo, or if paying less, getting *dramatically* less bandwidth, which keeps the majority of potential customers off of their network. I'd probably sign up for 1GB/mo for $20, but there's no way I'd ever pay $20 for 10MB.

You're right. Also Stroustrup had clearly pointed (in other argument lines) that C is not the better way to learn C++ (or OO in general):

BEGIN EXCERPT from http://www.research.att.com/~bs/new_learning.pdf :

        One conventional answer to the question ''Which subset of C++ should I learn first?'' is ''The C subset
of C++.'' In my considered opinion, that's not a good answer. The C-first approach leads to an early focus
on low-level details. It also obscures programming style and design issues by forces the student to face
many technical difficulties to express anything interesting.

These Muni Wi-Fi projects that are failing by the dozen - I've always wondered. . . "Why Wi-Fi"? WiFi was never intended to be a very wide area technology. Its meant for a house or small office, or a small sub-volume of a larger building (that is, it's not uncommon to need more than one *per-building* in large buildings like office buildings, hotels, hospitals, libraries, etc.

Seems to me that if you want to roll out municipal high-speed wireless access, you need something like 3G Mobile Telco networks. Those, by their nature, are *designed* to work as reliably as they are able to pull off, in a very wide area, without needing the excessive number of access points that you need for Muni WiFi. But wait, we *already have those*. Yeah, they're kinda expensive right now. Maybe the FCC could just look into price-fixing/gouging in the mobile telecom industry.

Still, my point is, I think that WiFi is just the wrong answer to the whole city-wide wireless internet question. I think the engineers that developed the 3G tech standards have solved the municipal wireless problem, mostly, it's just a matter of getting that wireless data connection reasonably priced so people can afford it. For example, the FCC could look into the nonsense of mobile telcos requiring a seperate data plan for your laptop than your cell phone. If I'm paying for wireless data bandwidth, what does it matter what device I use it on, I'm paying for the bandwidth? Don't allow the telcos to force the customer to pay twice. Don't allow them to charge such exorbitant rates for data (for an example, see AT&T DataConnect Plan Pricing; they charge $40/mo for a 50MB limit, or $60/mo for 5GB - I mean, if the actual cost of the data connection were in anywhere approaching a scale to the price you pay, AT&T could never afford to let you jump to 100 TIMES more data for a mere 20 dollars, so they just obviously charge you whatever the hell they want).

The absolute fastest and easiest way to get wireless internet access out to the country and have it be affordable is to simply put an end to this price-gouging crap by the mobile telcos.

I took frdmfghtr as simply trying to tone down your hyperbole, not contradicting you. There's most certainly a comparison to be made.

For everyone to see: AT&T's Coverage for EDGE devices.

Of course it's less than the 100% we'll consider as the satellite coverage area, but it obviously (from looking at the map) covers a huge swath of the US population - I'd guess in the 90+% range.

-Matt

Plus as a bonus it's not unlimited. They'll hassle you at 5GB.

It says here $30 for unlimited data if you get it with a regular voice plan. There is also the $60/month tethered plan that has a 5 GB/month limit but I'd never go for that, too expensive for too little.

My Cingular/AT&T store said $60 for 50 mbytes per month plus overage charges. My phone bills for the last 9 months prove they weren't lying. Asking intitially/subsequently got no different pricing. So you now should have the idea that my $60 cost is coming from the provider. Oh, so they have different pricing for iPhone customers? Now I'm even more disgusted with them.

iPhones have the same plans as every other device. AT&T says here $30 for unlimited data if you get it with a regular voice plan.

They also have a tethering (lets you use your phone to connect your computer to the wireless internet) deal and that's not so good, $60 for 5 GB/month data. Maybe you had a salesperson who was a real dick and he gave you the more expensive plan without explaining there was a less expensive option.

In my case I have the Edge iPhone and I got my data plan when it was $20/month for unlimited access to the Edge network. Now it's $30/month for unlimited access to the 3G network.

Anyways, it took me all of 10 seconds of digging to find the $30 unlimited plan. Never trust the salespeople ANYWHERE, they all want the commission. I never walk into a place without first researching what I want online.

We have to have quite a bit of hubris to think that our ways of ordering things are the only ways of doing so.

Actually, there are very precise, non-anthropic definitions of entropy for us computer types. For example, using Chaitin's defintion ( google query), the entropy of a given byte sequence is defined to be the [byte] length of the shortest computer program that can generate that sequence.

There are an insane amount of "ordered" sequences (c.f. http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/index.html), each one no more "random" than any other, given the appropriate context. Just because humans like x*2, and can pick it out easily, that doesn't mean that an alien species wouldn't find x^2 "more aesthetic" (or the Fibonacci sequence, or the digits of pi base 23 ...)

Which perhaps hints at the fact that the cards dealt in the parent's example are not as ordered (low entropy) as suggested. Why? Because the Chaitin entropy of the sequence includes the definition of

f(x) = (2*x) mod 13 and g(x) = (x^2) mod 13, respectively, x in [14,19].

(which btw, is not the shortest program that can generate the sequence, given how short the sequence itself is: the shortest program for *that* sequence is probably a "hard-coded" list. But I digress.)

So to put it another way, the algorithmic entropy of a byte sequence is governed by how compressible it is. But the method the parent proposes proposes to compress the card sequence would have to include, at the very least, numbers representing the choices of f(x) and g(x), and also the domain on which they are to be applied. So no, the cards dealt in the example in fact have quite high entropy.