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AT&T's Bad Math Strikes MythBusters' Savage
etherlad writes "MythBusters' Adam Savage got a bill charging him $11,000 for 'a few hours' of Web surfing while in Canada, using his AT&T USB Mercury modem. AT&T gave him a quote on the data rate: '.015 cents, or a penny and a half, per kb.' Looks like AT&T didn't learn from Verizon's inability to do math. AT&T is also claiming Savage downloaded over 9 GB, which he calls 'frakking impossible.' Savage's huge following on twitter got him a speedy response by AT&T."
Bust the all the myths that the companies quote about why they need to charge what they do, reliability, and especially that there is competition in the marketplace?
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
".015 cents, or a penny and a half"
Let me guess... whichever is larger?
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
I'm not sure what a crowd of angry MythBusters fans would do, but I'm sure that it would involve large amounts of kinetic energy.
there is no way in hell AT&T would be getting that kind of money out of me! you hear that AT&T?!!
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
IDK MY BFF JILL DOZ MTH 4 ATT
I wish I could have a mass following behind me that I could use to blackmail evil corporations.... Instead, here I am just clicking away at every Microsoft ad I see hoping that it'll eventually rack up some respectable cost to them.
-bitterness, sad face-
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
Math? Myth? Meth?
Savage's huge following on twitter got him a speedy response by AT&T."
I'm sure the response would have been just as fast if he wasn't famous and wasn't using Twitter. These large companies have professional Human Resource departments to make sure that the customer service experience is good.
Well, *THERE'S* your problem.
Task Mangler
FTA:
[AT&T] hasn't exactly been garnering positive reactions from its legions of Twitter-using members.
I'd say. If their customer service is anything like cell phone companies up here, it probably takes more than 140 characters to navigate their phone tree to talk to a human!
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
anyone else think those companies are crooks for charging per kilobyte like that is complete bull s(*@# ? just loading a damn web page like cnn.com is almost 1MB so that would be 1$
So all you need to do is be famous with lots of support and then you will get taken care of? What if this happened to a "normal" person?
Upon seeing the bill I'm sure his first response was, "I reject your reality and replace it with my own!"
This sig is false.
Math busted.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
All of the above.
and this is what I think of her math skillz
Two of the most powerful entities in the world are humbled by Twitter. Be afraid, be very, very afraid.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
AT&T clearly states on their website its $0.015 which translates to 1.5 cents per KB. /b
When you're trying to divide and conquer, any communication is scary.
"In the absence of the ability to establish the attribute of truth they tried to establish the noble attributes."
Verizon, AT&T, etc. need to have WEEKLY sessions with every single employee until they all learn how to read numbers like $0.015 properly out loud. The FCC should make random calls and fine the telecoms for several million dollars each time an operator reads a number like that incorrectly. That will encourage said weekly meetings.
A penney and a half is a bargin compared to the $.20 they charge for both incoming and outgoing text messages
If only there was someone who investigated whether what people believe is true or not. Someone should look into these kinds of odd events and see if they're possible or not. Incidentally, how big are those Canadian dollars?
Twitter is naught but the horn by which the crowd hears itself.
AT&T and Iran are being faced with that most awesome and powerful of forces: human beings. Acting in concert. Each of their own free will. :) Democracy rules.
Anyone who does not check on this issue before travelling to another country deserves shock treatment.
This stuff always makes the headlines when the bill amounts to 1,000's of dollars. The real problem is that there are probably a constant stream of people being billed $5, $20, maybe $50 for the usage. When they pass it off and just pay it, then the company lines its pockets with easy money.
I can't believe you stooped so low as to point this out an hour after the discussion was opened in a thread near to the top, when several contributions before yours in fact did point it out.
9GB of data is 9,437,184 KB. The numbers don't add up.
.015 cents and then tacked on 10k in fees...
".015 cents": 9,437,184 KB * $0.00015 = $1,415.5776
"a penny and a half": 9,437,184 KB * $0.015 = $141,557.76
Since the published data roaming rate in Canada is $0.015/KB, let's go with "a penny and a half".
$11,000 of usage at $0.015/KB equals 733,333.33333333...KB or 716.145833MB.
So not only do they not know the difference between a cent and a dollar, but their system for measuring data transfer is also off by a factor of ~12.87... unless they somehow billed him for
Given the way the math works out I'm going to say it's .015 cents per kilobit. AT&T claims he used 9 gigabytes. That is 9,663,676,416 bytes = 9,437,184 kilobytes* = 77,309,411.328 kilobits. At .015 cents per kilobit it comes out to $11,596.41. The summary claims he was charged $11,000.
* down with the kibi prefix!
Not to mention plans from 8th grade of marrying millionaire to avoid math.
maybe one about RT's with exploding batteries.
Review each line of EVERY bill. Last month they attempted to charge me data twice. I called them and told them where to look on the bill. I got $50 credited to my account because I caught it. ($35 for double charge, $15 for who the hell knows why). ALWAYS do a line item inventory of your bill, EVERY month. ALWAYS contest suspicious charges. Usually they can be cleared up with nothing more then a 20 minute phone call.
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
No one should be held liable for outrageous bills like this. AT&T failed to put reasonable controls in their billing system so customers are alerted when there's an obvious technical error, unauthorized use, or a simple mistake. American Express says my credit line is unlimited, but if I try to spend $100k they will decline the purchase and contact me. If I had a history of paying $100k bills they may allow it. But AT&T allows an account that's never exceeded a few hundred dollars reach $11,000. We all know why, unlike American Express, AT&T doesn't incur $11,000 in expenses so they don't bother doing anything about it.
It doesn't make any sense to me. Most people are unable to pay the bill, and anyone that can afford it has the resources to fight them. Either way, it generates a lot of bad PR and very little revenue. I'm surprised Apple hasn't put more pressure on them, these stories are frequently reported as "man receives $10,000 iPhone bill."
OK, even at $0.015 per K, you're talking about $15 per MB, or $15,000 per GB. To do 1 GB in an hour requires 3 mbps. How many mobile data connections out there achieve 3 mbps?
I use Verizon, and IF I had a data plan, overage for the 5 GB/mo plan is $0.05 per MB, which is 1/300 AT&T's rate. Even a cheap "browser on the phone" pay-as-you-go is $2/MB; still about 1/7 AT&T's rate.
Needless to say, there's still no way in hell I'd pay $50/GB for a data plan. Thus I don't.
Sir, you get one "fuck" per post for free on the Basic Slashdot PricePlan(tm) as you can see on page 2539 of your contract. We assumed from your post that you've decided to take advantage or automatic update process to the Slashdot Super High Enterprise Class Ultra Premium PricePlan(tm) as described in page 1845 of your contract. Yes, that is $199.99 per month plus sale tax and there's a $9599.99 plus sales tax service charge if you change to a plan with a lower monthly price in the first 48 months. Page 3453 of the contract. Well then your copy is updated. I've got the latest contract here, dated 29th of June. Yes 29th of June 2009. Um Sir, there's no need for that language ... Sir the audio quality on this line is kind of bad and I can't hear you very well, and I'll need to change to my headset. CLICK. BRRRR.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
We've got the technology. It's time we start banding together and holding businesses accountable together, instead of hoping that some magical government does it for us. Businesses get their money from the people (ideally), we're the ones that feed them. We can all have control as long as we pay attention. Businesses exist to convince us to give them money for what they do, we need only to work together with boycotts and calling frenzies to get what we want.
If you will notice he only had ONE dash before his signature, he took you up on your rebate offer of an extra Fuck in exchange for a single-dash signature.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
We'll claim Iran was humbled when we see some actual results. All we've seen so far is more beatings than there would have been without the internet.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
I could only imagine this is a clever Dem trying to make a Repub look like a dipshit.
Either that, or this individual is 14yrs old.
Or the number of beatings is about the same, only now we're more likely to hear about them?
Must be nice. Around here it's 20 minutes on hold, then a couple of hours to actually talk to someone who CAN change something, then another half hour until they get tired of you and give you what you want.
That is, when you CAN get an itemized bill. After three months of complaints tech support finally broke down and told me that I need to have third party cookies enabled to see my online bill.
"nobody wants to mess with a man who blows things up for a living."
And what about the myth that Ma'Bell can rape you over a wireless phone connection: CONFIRMED.
When you're stuck in an automated system just scream obscenities... I swear it works like 70% of the time. I think the voice recognition software has been programmed to pick up on that. My old boss taught me this trick, and it was a little unnerving the first time I heard him going to town on the computer voice at the other end of the line, but it really works! Just don't do it in public...
How come no one has yet done that?
File a formal grievance with the Federal Communications Commission: CLICK ME. The FCC is the "Ultimate Call Play". Only use it for legitimate grievances. If the cause is just, your complaint could cause a suspension of transmission rights on claimed frequencies. (For all intents and purposes, shutting of ATT for investigation of violating federal anti competitive statutes).
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
> Does AT&T send a free jar of Vaseline with each new contract?
Actually, there's a fee for that, too.
Anyone else think it's bordering on insanity the charges they want to levy against people for wireless data transfers? (Text messages is a whole other topic...) Even the new download caps some cable ISPs are setting for home broadband are still at least 100GB for a connection you spend ~$50 for. Why is it worth thousands of dollars to send a GB of data when a normal phone conversation is going to take up far more network bandwidth...
Nah, that's one of the things the bloggers are complaining about - that the beatings are more numerous than usual.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
That is, when you CAN get an itemized bill. After three months of complaints tech support finally broke down and told me that I need to have third party cookies enabled to see my online bill.
1. If I sent you a hand scrawled note saying "you owe me US$50, Pay up or I'll sue your ass", would you pay no questions asked, or would you ask me WTF I'm billing you for? I assume you would question the charges. Wireless companies are not any different. If you appear to be a weak target, you will get taken advantage of. You're in Wireless Prison, and you don't want to end up their bitch, so protect yourself from being raped with whatever means that you can. ALWAYS demand an itemised bill. ALWAYS. No exceptions, EVER.
2. Bullshit. I use firefox w/ adblock plus, 131,500 3rd party sites blocked via Spyware Blaster+Spybot S&D, and my hosts file. 3rd party cookies are absolutely NOT required for online bill viewing. It's only a simple PDF file.
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
You've mistaken the mob for democracy.
There are 1.1... kinds of people.
I don't understand why data is so hugely expensive in the US anyway. In Europe, you get unlimited data plans starting at EU 5/month (EU 25/month for unlimited 3.5G usage). Or you can buy 3G access day-by-day for EU 2.50/day. Some plans have international data roaming caps anywhere within Europe at EU 15/day.
Don't use US carrier SIM cards for international travel: you get no cost control and high rates for data.
Your best bet is to get a local, prepaid SIM card. In some countries, you can get day-by-day data subscriptions for a few bucks a day.
If you can't do that, your next best bet is to get an international prepaid SIM card. Their rates are a little higher, but they are still fairly low, and they are fairly low across the entire globe.
Either way, you get cost control: they can't charge you more than you prepaid.
Search on Google; there are many companies offering this service. Oh, and you need a GSM phone, preferably one that supports tethering. Most Nokias running Symbian will work and you just plug them into your laptop and they work as a 3G modem; they also have good E-mail readers.
(Nokias are a bit old-fashioned in that they ask you for every Internet connection you make; normally, that's a nuisance, but for data roaming, it's great.)
anyone else remember 0.002 dollar = 0.002 cent from two years ago?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2isSJKntbg
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Only in the US do you have this insanity. I'm returning from a trip to Stockholm and you can get unlimited 7.2MB broadband for about 40 bucks a month including taxes. 25 if you already have a phone plan. My swedish is lacking, but poking around with google translator I didn't find anything about bandwidth caps.
Again: $25-40US for UNLIMITED 7.2Mb broadband. Including taxes.
Off the top of my head, not a single major WIRED provider in the US even matches that price ... and many are talking about implementing bandwidth caps. Wireless? Bah. No big provider is unlimited and you're coughing up at least $60 + taxes and good luck actually getting 7.2Mb.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
New show: MethBusters?
Like COPS, but with meth.
Sincerely I really appreciate the market regulation we have in the EU, I think it's a great thing for the consumer. Starting next month the phone companies will be able to charge the maximum of 0,13 EUR per SMS (VAT included) sent while in roaming (in here we never pay for received SMS, in or out the country), well, it's great, but the most absurd is that the plan I have now makes me pay 0,167 EUR per SMS sent inside my own country!
I'm sure EU didn't make this 0,13 EUR price without reason, it's surely enough to pay the home operator and the abroad one their actual service charges and still give them some profit, so just think for a while how much this guys are earning.
They also cut the voice fees to acceptable levels, and in 2 years we shall not pay for received call while abroad and made calls must be charged by the second (at their maximum imposed cap rate per full minute divided by 60) :D
So, all in all, market regulation can be a very good thing if done properly.
Or, more likely, the guy on the other end will take your name, phone number, address, and a statement of the complaint. Then they'll reassure you that they'll get right on it, and thanks for calling. Click.
Unless you're a TV celebrity, a Congressman, or at least an appellate judge good luck getting them to do a thing for you.
ALWAYS demand an itemised bill. ALWAYS. No exceptions, EVER
No problem sir - we'll just add on the itemized bill option for $4.95 per month. If you'd like it actually mailed to you instead of buried on a website I can do that too for only $3.95 more.
Oh, since you're concerned about getting raped on minutes you don't intend to use, for a mere $6.95 we'll let you set a limit on your usage so that you won't get billed for unintended calls. No, that won't help with roaming charges. We're looking into an experimental $14.95 service to handle those - would you like to be in our pilot group?
The phone company: all about finding clever ways to charge you for stuff that should be required as a matter of law...
You know it took me all of a few seconds to read the writeup, click on the link and read the first paragraph.
Anyone ever think the customer service person was mistaken and said .015 cents == 1.5 cents and instead meant .015 dollars?
We're all human and make mistakes.
The real goofballs are the ones who think AT&T (or any "wireless cellular carrier") has a data network like the internet. Square peg, round hole. You're only enabling them by sending them your dollars.
FLR
I'm a Canadian client of Rogers, and while we were on vacation in Mexico a few months ago, we decided to use the Palm Treo we brought for some basic web surfing and email checking (swine flu panic, get some information for airports and whatnot).
So I call their handy and free 611 customer service, and ask for roaming charges. "What phone do you have?" she asks. "Palm Treo 650." She then tells me the charges for data are "Three cents per kilobyte." - "Sure?" - "Yes."
It sounded cheap, but not too cheap to be impossible. To be sure, I went to an internet cafe at the corner, and checked Rogers website. Impossible to know for sure, but I could find two information: 3 cents per MEGAbyte, applied to ordinary phones, and 3 cents per KILObyte applied to smartphones, especially the iPhone.
So we used it, thinking it would be 3/KB, but reasonably because, afterall, it's only a Treo and there's not much you can do on the web with it.
Upon my return, I got a bill for 80$ in data roaming charges. I fought it, had the issue escalated, I even DARED them to "Go listen to the recorded conversation" that they keep on file for "training and enhancement purposes". They finally caved in and removed all the charges from my bill, except 10$, which was satisfactory.
It's really bad when you are considered guilty until you can prove innocence.
Rogers do that kind of stuff frequently. I just upgraded to an iPhone and had to call them because each and every rebate/discount I previously had, and each bargain/rebate I managed to negociate on my new contract, they all disappeared mysteriously from the new invoice. Of coures it's a mistake. Of course the system had a hiccup and my order was not processed fully. Riiight.
But all in all, because I'm quite vocal about my consumer rights and will gladly voice them to the companies I deal with, I end up with a pretty interesting contract, and the services are good, so I'm, afterall, a happy customer.
There were two FAs in TFS. Both were total fucking garbage. Is there anywhere a literate person could read what happened? No twits thank you.
I'm really hoping this swing back towards more regulation will put a stop to these kinds of abuses. They are obviously far out of line with real world costs and every provider is in collusion. The same goes for text messaging 'costs', which cost magnitudes less than a phone call to transmit.
Math? Myth? Meth?
Yes.
I'm not in the US.
The equivalent here, (which I've done, BTW) is to file a complaint with the CRTC. However, the CRTC regards things like this as consumer disputes, so it isn't interested (I filed the complaint anyway). Canada has a special commission for consumer complaints, so I also filed a complaint with them. Nine months later, and no results, but at least I've added to the number of strikes. When that number gets high enough, they do occasionally investigate.
Of course. This time I haven't paid my bill in three months. After two they start sending text messages at seven am on Saturday just so you know they're concerned.
Last time they screwed up billing: I moved, so I called in to update my address. I also had my mail forwarded from my last address. But I stopped getting bills. The advertising spam mail came through, of course, but not the bills. When I noticed, I called in to see what was wrong. Updated my address again, and made them agree to send a bill reprint. Repeat EIGHT TIMES. Every time they texted or called to threaten disconnection I'd call in, tell them I'd be happy to pay as soon as I received an itemized bill, as per the contract, and gave them my address. They started getting irrational, suggesting I talk to Canada Post to see if something's wrong.
Finally, I spent about five hours climbing the "let me talk to your supervisor" chain and ended up talking to a VP of something or other. Apparently she had the magic keys to actually change someone's address in the computer, because I started getting bills again.
Of course, it wouldn't be Rogers without a final, parting screwup: a few weeks later I received a large envelope filled with about twenty copies of various bill reprints over the last few months. And a bill for $10 each. So I had to call AGAIN, and sit on hold AGAIN, and get that cancelled.
Your (2) doesn't make sense. Of course it shouldn't require third party cookies to send someone a PDF, but it's perfectly within the power of a website designer to screw that up. These guys contract out the e-bill delivery to Canada Post (our postal service trying to remain relevant) and Canada Post for some reason wants to send you a cookie before they'll send you the PDF. Since Rogers/Fido won't just send you to Canada Post (they want to pretend they're sending you the bill), it ends up being a third party cookie.
It means you need to watch more movies
Actually, he was quoting the movie... You just need to watch more of it!
Youtube Office Space Clip
God, that movie was so amazing.
Sir, you get one "fuck" per post for free on the Basic Slashdot PricePlan(tm)
Slashdot is pimping?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
lol at rogers
Unfortunately its only for a very specific fetish....
GENERATION O98346: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and remove a random number from the generation. T
I live an hour outside of Sacramento, and was charged by AT & T 1,100 because some on managed to use my wireless phones in my house, and call a Canadian Number !!! This Happened twice before i got rid of the wireless phones in my house, and only because i had affidavits from bowling partners for 3 of the phone session, and my son and I were on a trip, was I able to successfully dispute those charges. AT & T was NO HELP, and I had to LEARN EVERYTHING MY SELF. In the end I have no choice about AT & T, since teh Vonage will not work with the Crapphy internet we have out here 1 Hour drive from Sacramento, California, and NO CELL PHONE RECEPTION IN OUR HOUSE EVEN TRYING, and there are over 5,000 people up here in teh foothills you are in the exact same position, STUCK IN LANDLINE HELL, with NO DSL, and our only options is ISDN, or Satellite Internet. Be glad you live in the big city, I have to love trees a lot to put up with this 3 rd world backwater called the USA. I am thankful when I travel to Korea, and India, because there I have complete internet and phone mobility !!!! When is the Government going to insist that this situation is causing the USA to be a 3rd world nation as far as telecommunications is concerned !!!
Math man, Math man!!
Sig Return: 204 No Content
It's not just Iran.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
There's a difference?
As someone who earns 25K US I am very happy with Mr Obama's actions.
Go you good thing!