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Probably from other suppliers, who supply about 65,000 cars a month in China. There are other big battery sources than the Gigafactory, you know...

found the guy that paid too much for tesla stock.

Cute. Of course I'm on record multiple times here on slashdot saying that I wouldn't touch TSLA with a barge pole. WAY overvalued. The company is a good company but the stock price lost any tether to reality some time ago. That has nothing at all to do with the quality, capabilities, and popularity of their cars. They are already the top selling luxury car maker in the US, outselling BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Audi. In fact they sell as many cars as BMW and Mercedes combined in the US. That doesn't happen by accident.

stock that will nosedive with traditional automakers getting into the game, hardcore... with their massively larger manufacturing capacity and a century of automotive manufacturing experience over their upstart competition that's still operating like a 'start up' instead of a legitimate contender, and run by a buffoon that can't keep his fucking mouth shut.

I work in the auto industry making wiring for both ICE and EV automobiles. While the big auto companies are quite capable in many ways as you say, they also by and large have no idea what to do about EVs and they aren't taking them very seriously to date. We make parts for the Chevy Bolt EV and I've seen first hand their project management and it's not impressive. They are trying very hard not to cannibalize their current car sales and in the process they are failing to invest in the future of cars which increasingly appears to be EVs. They haven't invested seriously in battery tech, they aren't making big investments in EV infrastructure, most of the EVs they have made have been half-assed compliance cars with shitty range and poor features. Explain to me how you think they are going to suddenly magically figure out the formula for making a good EV without actually making any. How are they going to compete with Tesla or other companies that invested early when they have a substantial advantage in battery cost and supply and performance?

It's not too late yet for the big auto companies to get in the game but they had better do so fairly soon. (soon meaning serious products within the next 5-10 years with big investment starting NOW) If they wait much longer than that, they'll have basically ceded big market share to Tesla and any other car maker that does take EVs seriously. When EVs reach a tipping point there will be some big auto companies that take the train to bankruptcy-ville if they aren't working hard on EVs now.

the changes that happened in the fallout of the 'emissions scandal' is the best thing to happen to the industry since the assembly line.

I hope you are right but I doubt it. VW is run by some seriously ethically challenged people. They knew what they were doing was wrong and did it anyway. Same people who green-lit the diesel scandal are in charge today. No reason to believe they have suddenly learned how to be ethical or that they seriously care about EVs. I'd be happy to be wrong but there is little evidence to suggest I am to date.

Panasonic doesn't have a problem partnering with Toyota.

It's hard to claim that is a "Partnership" when it was really Toyota panicking and wanting to be able to move faster on electric cars.

It was also an earlier phase of Panasonic lowering the integration with Tesla, as what the Toyota deal did was move ownership of five Panasonic battery manufacturing facilities in China and Japan to the new combined battery entity jointly owned (49% Panasonic and 51% Toyota), in the process reducing the exposure to Panasonic if the electric car battery market does not grow as expected... which Panasonic is saying now, it will not.

You really must learn how to read "partnering" agreements to understand what is really going on, but then coming from a Tesla hater it's no surprise you aren't really understanding the car, or the car battery market and where the payers are at...

It took E segment in 2014-2015 time frame. Just luxury level

It is cost effective in TCO metric already for the D segment, 40K - 50 K.

It is on the verge of taking over C segment 25K to 35K. You can expect the bottom to fall out of the ICE car market. Leading to all sorts of non linear effects.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019...

Batteries are a huge fraction of the cost of an electric vehicle, and will remain so for the foreseeable future, making them far too expensive for most people to consider.

Not true. Even the pessimists expect EVs to reach price parity in about 5-7 years, and some industry executives expect it to happen much sooner. And that's just the upfront cost. Take into account the lower fuel and maintenance costs for EVs, as well as government incentives, and we already passed the point several years ago where EVs have a lower total cost of ownership in some places.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018... "2% market share belongs to BMW, the best-selling foreign brand, and 2% to Tesla. The remaining foreign manufacturers share the remaining 2%."

Look at the documented predictions of death of Tesla stretching back 11 years.

Meanwhile the faggots are planning a Eleventh Tesla Death Anniversary Celebration. The link has all the previous predictions of death of tesla. Interesting chronology.

Fixed that for you.

Meanwhile the fans are planning a Eleventh Tesla Death Anniversary Celebration. The link has all the previous predictions of death of tesla. Interesting chronology.

I'd be careful with presuming that there's extra inefficiency with inductive charging.

For example, Cleantechnia

says,

Wireless EV charging is just as efficient — or more efficient — than plugging in. Most people think they have to plug in an electric car to get the most efficient charging possible, but that’s not true. No charging method is 100% efficient. Conventional chargers are typically 88% to 95% efficient. Wireless charging is right in the middle of that range at 90% to 93% efficiency. That means it does as good a job of transferring electricity from the charger to a car’s battery as most conventional charging equipment that uses a cord.

This is largely because a wired charging system still needs to use a transformer to match voltage to the battery, while with a wireless charger, the inductive loop IS the transformer.

Even wikipedia notes that inefficiency is primarily a problem for systems under 100W, and becomes inapplicable over 5 kW. Which is interesting that it is more efficient to plug our small devices - IE smartphones and such, in, but better to charge our huge devices (electric vehicles) wirelessly.

Problem is, that everybody wants to buy a superior vehicle that is also a superior value.

Until you get into a fender bender and need to have it repaired. Then you're going to be pulling out the big bucks.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/20/heres-what-7000-of-damage-looks-like-on-a-tesla-model-3/

Seriously $7000 for a minor dent? I'm not sure I see the "superior value" here. Its a value until you realize the exterior of the car is pretty much an eggshell and if you bust anything on it, watch out, you're going to be paying out the nose(or your insurance is).

It gets even worse, this poor guy had his Model 3 backed into https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ridiculous-cost-and-time-repair-model-3

What I did not expect was that it would take the insurance nearly a month of having my car at the shop before they decided to let me know that the cost will be $16,000+ AND i would not receive my car from the shop for AT LEAST another 7 weeks. Having had my car sit there for almost 4 weeks without any information every time I called was frustrating and that is on the insurance provider but Tesla taking "3-5 weeks" to deliver some fenders is honestly ridiculous.

$16k worth of damage and weeks worth of waiting with your car in the shop? Thats insane.

I'd much rather buy a car with a well supported pipeline of spare parts and a good geographic spread of service centers.

Also there is the whole matter regarding the stability of Tesla as a company.

Will they be there in 5 years when something breaks and I need to get a replacement part?

I say this as someone who really, really likes the idea of owning a Tesla, but the costs of any potential repairs is a turnoff. We'll also ignore the fact that Tesla's are some of the most expensive vehicles to insure, due to the cost of repairs. I have a hard time seeing the real value at this point.

Except that rather than $20k every 5 years, we're on track for $10k every 15. An amortized $1k/year is less than what I spend on gasoline.

https://www.plugincars.com/tes...
https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

Tesla doesn't report numbers but there is an estimate of 250,000 vehicles sold in 2018
https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

Toyota sold 245,000 in just the first two months
https://global.toyota/en/compa...

I think they are doing OK

Electric cars are 100 year old, and no gas car maker successfully made a no compromise electric car, BEV that can compete with ICEV in at least a few significant performance parameters like, speed, range, capacity and price. Every industry analyst was saying it is impossible, till 2017. The industry started saying, "we can build them BEV anytime we want, when we do we will wipe the floor with Tesla's ass" only recently.

BEVs can be made profitably. BEVs achieved price parity[* 1] with F segment cars (roadsters, above 120K $) in 2012, in E segment (80K) in 2015, in F segment (50K +) in 2018. Tesla is claiming price parity in D segment (35 K) in 2019. Giving Elon Time dilation, it will be probably in 2020. It should have price parity with C segment, (25 to 35 K) in 2023 [* 2]. But not sure Tesla is planning to enter this market. Might leave these segments to Korea and China and stay in D and above. Half the profits of the car industry are made in D, E and F segments. So it might not enter A (less than 15K), B (15 to 25 K) or C (25 to 35 K).

Go rent a Tesla for a week, get used to its handling and performance. Then see if you feel the same about the gas car. I find BMW 3 series under powered and laggy once I got used to the Tesla. 40 mph to 60 mph is 1.5 seconds. In merging traffic, this is incredible. When people see what an electric car can do, the gas car sales will tank faster than BEVs could be made. [* 3]

[* 1] I am talking about price parity, not cost, not including tax subsidies or savings in running costs.

[* 2] Citation provided.

[* 3] The Osbourne Effect.

Electric cars are 100 year old, and no gas car maker successfully made a no compromise electric car, BEV that can compete with ICEV in at least a few significant performance parameters like, speed, range, capacity and price. Every industry analyst was saying it is impossible, till 2017. The industry started saying, "we can build them BEV anytime we want, when we do we will wipe the floor with Tesla's ass" only recently.

BEVs can be made profitably. BEVs achieved price parity[* 1] with F segment cars (roadsters, above 120K $) in 2012, in E segment (80K) in 2015, in F segment (50K +) in 2018. Tesla is claiming price parity in D segment (35 K) in 2019. Giving Elon Time dilation, it will be probably in 2020. It should have price parity with C segment, (25 to 35 K) in 2023 [* 2]. But not sure Tesla is planning to enter this market. Might leave these segments to Korea and China and stay in D and above. Half the profits of the car industry are made in D, E and F segments. So it might not enter A (less than 15K), B (15 to 25 K) or C (25 to 35 K).

Go rent a Tesla for a week, get used to its handling and performance. Then see if you feel the same about the gas car. I find BMW 3 series under powered and laggy once I got used to the Tesla. 40 mph to 60 mph is 1.5 seconds. In merging traffic, this is incredible. When people see what an electric car can do, the gas car sales will tank faster than BEVs could be made. [* 3]

[* 1] I am talking about price parity, not cost, not including tax subsidies or savings in running costs.

[* 2] Citation provided.

[* 3] The Osbourne Effect.

But looking forward at things? I think you're going to see serious depreciation happen as soon as those 8 year warranties are up, and that, in turn will force prices down on the Model 3.

Actuall statistics show that battery packs on Teslas hold up very well (when not abused). Long term prognosis is much better than an ICE vehicle. Do you think traditional gasoline engines are successfully tested by their manufacturer over an equivalent 1 million miles, like the Model 3 motor?
https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

Um

https://www.hitachicm.com/glob...

How cute, not quite the size of a Tesla Model 3.

https://www.heavyequipmentguid...

More pocket rocket!

https://www.theconstructionind...

Even more pocket rocket!

https://www.theconstructionind...

Diesel-electric huh...won't solve your fumes problem I don't think.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

A commentary piece with encouraging words such as "development...coming...hydrogen fuel cell..."

https://electrek.co/2017/09/17...

So a single prototype demonstrator can work along all the diesel workhorse equipment.

tldr: fuck off ShortWilly, 140ManDickhead262Jamuna

Um

https://www.hitachicm.com/glob...
https://www.heavyequipmentguid...
https://www.theconstructionind...
https://www.theconstructionind...
https://cleantechnica.com/2018...
https://electrek.co/2017/09/17...

Electric cars, and Teslas in particular, are a teensy, tiny minority of all the cars out there, and a teensy proportion of new sales.

Teslas look quite a bit better if you only consider their share of markets Tesla actually is in. The number of cars sold worldwide would include the number of cars sold in India and China where Tesla has no serious business yet.

I was surprised to read that in the state of California, about 1 in 22 of all cars sold in the third quarter of 2018 were Teslas (actual number: 4.6% of "light vehicle sales"). That's not their share of BEVs, that's their share of all cars sold.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/02/tesla-4-6-of-california-vehicle-sales-in-q3/

It's true that BEVs are still a tiny slice of the worldwide car market. There was a time when car sales were tiny compared to horse-drawn buggy sales. The past doesn't guarantee the future.

Musk is a salesman. [...] But the giants can stamp on him any time they like.

I used to think there was some truth to this idea. Now I scorn it.

For "the giants" to "stamp on him" they would have to produce so many electric cars that they steal away his customers. One question for you... where will they get the batteries? Have they invested staggering sums of money into their own battery factory, as Tesla did?

Also, will their cars be just as good as a Tesla? I don't take seriously any car design that doesn't have a front trunk. The new electric cars that just have an electric motor under the hood instead of an ICE engine seem like slap-dash last-minute catch-up designs by companies that aren't ready to compete with Tesla yet.

It's not that I think the front trunk by itself is that big a deal; the front trunk is the by-product of a clean-sheet new BEV design. Why would you want a complex drive train when you can have a motor right between the two wheels? For all-wheel drive, why would you want anything other than two redundant motors? If a car company hasn't even gotten that far, how competitive can its cars really be to Tesla?

To hear Musk (and others) speak, you'd think BMW are scrambling to catch up. They're not. They just don't care.

That's an interesting idea. I doubt you can support it.

In the "large luxury car" segment of the market, Tesla ate everyone else's lunch. Not that many people will pay $80K or $100K or more for a car, so a Tesla sale is a sale some other company didn't get. Tesla got more sales than BMW or Mercedes or any other luxury maker.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/01/1-tesla-model-s-dominating-large-luxury-car-sales-in-usa/

If you add up Mercedes S-class sales, and BMW 6-series and 7-series sales, that's roughly the number of cars sold as the Tesla Model S alone.

The picture looks actually worse when you compare the Tesla Model 3 to its competitors. It's crushing them.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/08/tesla-model-3-completely-crushing-us-luxury-car-competition-10-cleantechnica-charts/

Are these companies blithely unconcerned about Tesla? Really?

To hear Musk (and others) speak, you'd think BMW are scrambling to catch up. They're not. They just don't care. Their EV models make them no more than Tesla, which is a drop in the ocean to them. It's chicken-feed to them, in a niche market.

As I understand Elon Musk's claims: car companies currently make a lot of money off of car repairs; BEVs need less repairs and don't cost very much to repair; car companies have been reluctant to switch to BEVs because they stand to make much less money off of BEVs.

Electric cars, and Teslas in particular, are a teensy, tiny minority of all the cars out there, and a teensy proportion of new sales.

Teslas look quite a bit better if you only consider their share of markets Tesla actually is in. The number of cars sold worldwide would include the number of cars sold in India and China where Tesla has no serious business yet.

I was surprised to read that in the state of California, about 1 in 22 of all cars sold in the third quarter of 2018 were Teslas (actual number: 4.6% of "light vehicle sales"). That's not their share of BEVs, that's their share of all cars sold.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/02/tesla-4-6-of-california-vehicle-sales-in-q3/

It's true that BEVs are still a tiny slice of the worldwide car market. There was a time when car sales were tiny compared to horse-drawn buggy sales. The past doesn't guarantee the future.

Musk is a salesman. [...] But the giants can stamp on him any time they like.

I used to think there was some truth to this idea. Now I scorn it.

For "the giants" to "stamp on him" they would have to produce so many electric cars that they steal away his customers. One question for you... where will they get the batteries? Have they invested staggering sums of money into their own battery factory, as Tesla did?

Also, will their cars be just as good as a Tesla? I don't take seriously any car design that doesn't have a front trunk. The new electric cars that just have an electric motor under the hood instead of an ICE engine seem like slap-dash last-minute catch-up designs by companies that aren't ready to compete with Tesla yet.

It's not that I think the front trunk by itself is that big a deal; the front trunk is the by-product of a clean-sheet new BEV design. Why would you want a complex drive train when you can have a motor right between the two wheels? For all-wheel drive, why would you want anything other than two redundant motors? If a car company hasn't even gotten that far, how competitive can its cars really be to Tesla?

To hear Musk (and others) speak, you'd think BMW are scrambling to catch up. They're not. They just don't care.

That's an interesting idea. I doubt you can support it.

In the "large luxury car" segment of the market, Tesla ate everyone else's lunch. Not that many people will pay $80K or $100K or more for a car, so a Tesla sale is a sale some other company didn't get. Tesla got more sales than BMW or Mercedes or any other luxury maker.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/01/1-tesla-model-s-dominating-large-luxury-car-sales-in-usa/

If you add up Mercedes S-class sales, and BMW 6-series and 7-series sales, that's roughly the number of cars sold as the Tesla Model S alone.

The picture looks actually worse when you compare the Tesla Model 3 to its competitors. It's crushing them.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/08/tesla-model-3-completely-crushing-us-luxury-car-competition-10-cleantechnica-charts/

Are these companies blithely unconcerned about Tesla? Really?

To hear Musk (and others) speak, you'd think BMW are scrambling to catch up. They're not. They just don't care. Their EV models make them no more than Tesla, which is a drop in the ocean to them. It's chicken-feed to them, in a niche market.

As I understand Elon Musk's claims: car companies currently make a lot of money off of car repairs; BEVs need less repairs and don't cost very much to repair; car companies have been reluctant to switch to BEVs because they stand to make much less money off of BEVs.

Electric cars, and Teslas in particular, are a teensy, tiny minority of all the cars out there, and a teensy proportion of new sales.

Teslas look quite a bit better if you only consider their share of markets Tesla actually is in. The number of cars sold worldwide would include the number of cars sold in India and China where Tesla has no serious business yet.

I was surprised to read that in the state of California, about 1 in 22 of all cars sold in the third quarter of 2018 were Teslas (actual number: 4.6% of "light vehicle sales"). That's not their share of BEVs, that's their share of all cars sold.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/02/tesla-4-6-of-california-vehicle-sales-in-q3/

It's true that BEVs are still a tiny slice of the worldwide car market. There was a time when car sales were tiny compared to horse-drawn buggy sales. The past doesn't guarantee the future.

Musk is a salesman. [...] But the giants can stamp on him any time they like.

I used to think there was some truth to this idea. Now I scorn it.

For "the giants" to "stamp on him" they would have to produce so many electric cars that they steal away his customers. One question for you... where will they get the batteries? Have they invested staggering sums of money into their own battery factory, as Tesla did?

Also, will their cars be just as good as a Tesla? I don't take seriously any car design that doesn't have a front trunk. The new electric cars that just have an electric motor under the hood instead of an ICE engine seem like slap-dash last-minute catch-up designs by companies that aren't ready to compete with Tesla yet.

It's not that I think the front trunk by itself is that big a deal; the front trunk is the by-product of a clean-sheet new BEV design. Why would you want a complex drive train when you can have a motor right between the two wheels? For all-wheel drive, why would you want anything other than two redundant motors? If a car company hasn't even gotten that far, how competitive can its cars really be to Tesla?

To hear Musk (and others) speak, you'd think BMW are scrambling to catch up. They're not. They just don't care.

That's an interesting idea. I doubt you can support it.

In the "large luxury car" segment of the market, Tesla ate everyone else's lunch. Not that many people will pay $80K or $100K or more for a car, so a Tesla sale is a sale some other company didn't get. Tesla got more sales than BMW or Mercedes or any other luxury maker.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/01/1-tesla-model-s-dominating-large-luxury-car-sales-in-usa/

If you add up Mercedes S-class sales, and BMW 6-series and 7-series sales, that's roughly the number of cars sold as the Tesla Model S alone.

The picture looks actually worse when you compare the Tesla Model 3 to its competitors. It's crushing them.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/08/tesla-model-3-completely-crushing-us-luxury-car-competition-10-cleantechnica-charts/

Are these companies blithely unconcerned about Tesla? Really?

To hear Musk (and others) speak, you'd think BMW are scrambling to catch up. They're not. They just don't care. Their EV models make them no more than Tesla, which is a drop in the ocean to them. It's chicken-feed to them, in a niche market.

As I understand Elon Musk's claims: car companies currently make a lot of money off of car repairs; BEVs need less repairs and don't cost very much to repair; car companies have been reluctant to switch to BEVs because they stand to make much less money off of BEVs.

Does anybody seriously think the Tesla Model 3 will be competitive with anything from Mercedes, Audi and BMW?

What do you mean 'will be'? No need for the future tense.

Tesla has a niche, because it currently is the only brand offering cars with such large batteries.

Hey, remember how the Bolt was supposed to blow away Tesla sales because of its large battery? Funny thing...

Moreover, since the Big Three will offer premium EVs very soon

Yes, same "Tesla Killer" story we've been hearing for the past decade. Meanwhile, Tesla's lead only continues to grow.

Tesla's Model 3, competitors are Lexus ES, BMW's 3 series, Audi A4, and MB C Class, to name a few.
Few of these are even close in performance or handling, though similar in luxury.
So, which one costs $25K?

Windbourne.

You fail at internet. I believe you meant to link this puff piece https://cleantechnica.com/2019...

If you want to be a true believer, that's fine with me.
You think Telsa is going to make 50% more money than any car company ever has, and they are going to do that real soon now, go ahead and believe that.

Actually, official numbers released today show 364% growth in 2018. (But don't let facts get in the way of your narrative)

https://cleantechnica.com/

There is another way in which you are ignorant. You claim that EVs don't have sufficient range for commuting for most drivers, yet, here is a study that shows that EVs can easily meet the requirements of 95% of all trips:
https://www.greencarreports.co...

As for life of the batteries, life depends on usage (charge to 100%?), and chemistry. Actual studies on real Tesla batteries show a much longer typical life:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

Or how about this one:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesl...

I dare say you haven't considered all this and I'd bet you don't own an EV and have any experience with them either. But I'm the ignorant one? Yea right.

Yes, you are the ignorant one. We have not one, but two EVs in my household: a Model 3 and a Leaf.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

Musk failed so miserably with Tesla.
I mean Tesla loses even against "domestic" competition like the Chevrolet Bolt which beat the snot out of Tesla Model 3 by 20% price-wise.

LOL. The Chevy Bolt sold 3,949 cars in the third quarter of 2018; at the same time, Tesla was making and selling more Model 3 cars per week than that. For the whole quarter Tesla sold 55,840 Model 3 cars. That's over 14 times the sales.

The Model 3 costs more, but it's also a better car than the Bolt, and it appears that customers are willing to pay the premium.

https://electrek.co/2018/10/03/chevy-bolt-ev-sales-slumping-us/

In November 2018, the Tesla Model 3 was the 6th highest selling car on the market, period. The Model 3 outsold the Ford Fusion and the Nissan Sentra. It sold about double compared to Volkswagen Jetta and about triple compared to the Toyota Prius.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/12/08/tesla-model-3-completely-crushing-us-luxury-car-competition-10-cleantechnica-charts/

In fairness, the above is with a $7,500 tax credit. That credit will be reducing soon and then will go away. But by then, Tesla should have their $35,000 model available to sell.

Elon Musk had hoped to have the $35K car available by the end of 2018. That's not happening but it looks like it will happen in the first half of 2019.

https://insideevs.com/base-35000-tesla-model-3-production-8-months/

Another fun fact: the Honda Civic and the Honda Accord are two of the top five trade-ins of Model 3 customers.

https://electrek.co/2018/08/01/tesla-model-3-top-5-trade-in-cars/

I don't think the word "failure" is the right word to describe Tesla or the Model 3. I expected it to beat the stuffing out of the BMW 3-series and other luxury cars; I didn't expect it to be competitive with the Honda Civic or the Nissan Sentra.

Also, for your prediction about Japanese car makers beating Tesla to come true, the Japanese car makers are going to need a guaranteed source of batteries. Tesla spent the big money to build their own battery factory, which at the same time gives them the lowest cost on batteries and a guaranteed supply of batteries. There will be millions of Tesla cars on the road before any other company can even begin to compete with them.

" one of the best-selling cars, period in the US" by what metric? and citation please, because that seems like a huge claim and is overly generalized.

Seriously? Have you been living under a rock?

Here, let me spoon-feed you.

In terms of revenue, the Tesla Model 3 was the best selling car in the USA in September, by a wide margin. It pulled in nearly twice as much money as the second-best car, the Toyota Camry.

Tesla Model 3 Is Best Selling Car In USA In Terms Of Revenue

It was the fourth best selling car in the USA during the month in terms of numbers. Take a look at the graphs in the article. Tesla is producing (and selling) the Model 3 in quantities similar to Accord, Camry, etc. But they charge 2-3 times as much for every one they sell.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018... Who are the worst 5 countries holding the world for ransom?
Yes it's the USA...

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...
https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...
https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

The best part (for the environment) is that the overall energy consumption of the Bitcoin network is dropping significantly. According to this estimation the power consumed by the aggregated network has dropped from 73.12 TWh per year (around 8.3 GW on average) one month ago, to 45.54 TWh per year (around 5.2 GW on average) today.

Note that solar panel market installed 98.9 GW last year. With an optimistic efficiency of 50% (nigths, clouds), this means that one month ago we were dedicating one in each 6 new panels installed last year, worldwide, to power Bitcoin. Today, it is "only" one in 9.5.

And yes, those panels are the "clean energy" we are installing to save the world. Bitcoin saves nothing, please save (pun intended) the "but this is the cost for lack of trust/decentralized/...". This is good, and should keep dropping, considering the environmental impact.

Solar cells, you ought to be able to seal them up pretty well, but I have no idea how much they're subject to degradation over time.

Thin-film solar cells can last around twenty years, but will have substantial loss by that time. PC cells can last much longer. This kind of information is readily available via a simple google search, which is how I found it, though I already knew. The truth is that if we had started building solar plants en masse in the 1970s, most of those panels could still be producing over 70% output today. Of course, they probably wouldn't be, because they probably would have been replaced, and the used panels sold as surplus to homeowners who could have made use of them.

Modern solar panels made in countries which care about the environment (read: not China) are required not to leach if landfilled, even if broken up into bits. So they really are the safest form of power, if you don't install them on residential roofs. That's where most of the solar deaths occur. You can install them over parking lots (where the work is done on a scaffold or high-lift and not on the roof itself) or you can install them in open fields, and thereby avoid that problem.

We should have been going solar since the seventies. It may be too late now, but that's no reason not to do it anyway, since it may not be.

See https://cleantechnica.com/2018... which shows the Tesla Model 3 is the 5th top car selling car by units sold but is top car by revenue. You are correct that Japanese and Korean manufacturers lead by number of units sold. You need to look at Tesla's 2018 car sold numbers and not 2017 due to the fast ramp up of the Tesla Model 3 this year. It is no joke for GM and Ford.

Telsa is best selling luxury sedan in USA https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

Tesla appears to be doing very well at price point.

GM is trying to not be Kodak, clinging to their old products rather than trying to shift with the market.

I'm not sure GM is doing the correct thing, but it wouldn't shock me. The risk I see them taking is that as price points get lower, the likelihood of overnight charging being an option go down (requires a driveway), but GM wants to beat Tesla to affordable long range EVs, on the assumption that the market really wants long range EVs over gasoline.

GM does appear to get EVs with the Volt, Bolt, and Spark EV not feeling under powered.

Random article on Tesla sales, I'm not sure they can keep it up, but if I didn't have a good electric plan in place as a manufacturer, I would be concerned. Long range EVs are dominating the pricepoints they are available in (check July and August).

(biased source obviously, but I trust that the numbers are true, it may not hold in monthly sales going forward).

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

I hope that GM does something similar to a Spark EV again, but purpose built, that's a fun little car.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

Oh, and I still think this is not news. Every day there is another "discovery" to make an excuse to put global warming in the news.

Bitching about new climate change evidence makes you part of the problem. Every significant study that advances our climate knowledge is worth talking about, because it informs the discussion about what we ought to do. Since we continually get more data, we should continually update our projections, and make policy decisions with the best information possible.

Personally I believe solar power is so expensive, resource heavy, unreliable, and not all that friendly to the environment generally, that it should be a source of last resort.

Science doesn't care what you personally believe. You should take your own advice and educate yourself on this topic. Your claims are either out of date, misinformed, or outright FUD. Solar has become incredibly cheap in recent years - it was at $100/W in 1975, but it's less than $0.37/W today. The panels pay back enormously more energy than they require to build, and have very minimal maintenance requirements. If you live in a sunny place, it's one of the more lucrative home improvement investments you can make, with anywhere between a 2% and 9% annualized return on investment, depending on your specific setup. That compares really well to savings or bond markets, and can even be competitive with stock market returns - with much less risk! The great thing about this is that even detractors like yourself are mattering less and less, because the free market will take over from here and we'll see installations popping up like crazy (which is already happening).

Nuclear energy is great - I would love to see more of it. It's by far the safest form of energy and I actively advocate for it. You can read through my comment history and find me doing exactly that. But you don't need to spread FUD about solar or anything else to promote nuclear. Any power generation that displaces fossil fuels is a step in the right direction.

Tesla Model 3 Is #1 Top Selling American Car In USA

https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

The only three cars that sold more than this American success story were the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and Honda Civic.

$7000 for a small dent on the fender.

To be 100% fair, the more tech you pack into a car the more expensive it does get for basic repairs.

A lovely old lady scrapped the front off side corner of my 2 series the other week. The initial quote for repairs wast over £1,500 until I read it and told them there were no forward parking sensors (honestly, if you need forward parking sensors, driving is not for you). The smart bumper then became a stock standard dumb bumper and the quote dropped to £350 because the repair shop didn't need to employ an auto electrician to remove, re-install and re-calibrate the non-existent sensors. It was only this £350 because of the smaller internal fins of the bumper on the M240i which they needed to be heated and fixed.

So apparently now cars are going to be like smartphones or other electronic gadgets -- everything is too-cleverly designed such that you can't repair individual components

There's something to what you say. But on the other hand, Tesla designed the Model 3 to have a greatly reduced parts count and simplified design.

Sandy Munro and his team famously tore down and analyzed a Tesla Model 3, and he was quite impressed by the design. Initially he made some negative comments but lately he said he "had to eat crow" and that the car is a "symphony of engineering". His only real complaint is that the car body is too complex and heavy; Elon Musk replied on Twitter saying the car body definitely could be simpler but the weight was due to the car being designed to be so safe.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/23/second-tesla-model-3-teardown-highlights-strengths-opportunities-for-tesla/

Tesla cars have computer-controlled everything. I can't find the link where I read this, but I read that they use a star-topology wiring data network for control, plus a power bus. For the Model Y, they are rumored to be going to a single cable per gadget, implying power and data together in a star topology. A conventional car has around 5000 feet of wiring (1500 metres) but this story claims that Model Y will need only 328 feet of wire. 328 feet converts almost exactly to 100 metres so I wonder if someone gave a ballpark estimate of 100 metres (nice round number) and some reporter uncritically converted that to an exact number of feet.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/elon-musk-tesla-model-y-will-require-only-328-feet-of-wiring-119717.html

Tesla's modular design is really impressive in the battery and drive train. A Model 3 "drive unit" is a motor plus gearbox plus axles and suspension. To remove it is incredibly simple: four bolts, two cables (data and power), two glycol coolant hoses, and two brake hoses. A motor swap for a Model 3 will take much less labor than most engine or transmission repairs on a conventional car.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-drivetrain-design-elon-musk-master-plan/

And Tesla is trying to provide a good repair experience. They have a program where they set up Tesla body shops and keep those stocked with parts. For people lucky enough to be near one of these Tesla body shops, a Tesla repair can be amazingly fast.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-in-house-body-repair-shop-model-3-damage-25-hours/

Early adopters have it worst, and it can cost something like $900 to repair a door handle on a Model S. But Tesla is doing an amazing job of ramping their operations and making their cars as simple as possible to build and to repair.

$7000 for a small dent on the fender.

EVs are poised to be huge (once they become cheaper than regular cars

They are pretty much there already. No, not in sticker price, but when you look at TCO, EVs are pretty much on par with ICE cars. It looks like the 5 year Model 3 TCO is on par with a Camry as long as the tax incentive is there. Without it, the Model 3 comes in a little higher than a Camry.

I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but we went from 1045 million short tons for electricity in 2006 to 664 in 2016, a reduction of 1/3 and we had a corresponding rise in natural gas for electrical generation which offsets some of these losses. The CO2 per kwh has not dropped by much in the last decade. Secondly, the Tesla battery is sold at a loss and is not anywhere near 100 usd/kwh yet. They are on track for the cells to hit that price this year and maybe packs by 2020. The only thing keeping the costs down are the fact Tesla uses and advanced smart battery architecture with long lifespan cells and carefully controls the temperature and charge cycles at all times making them viable for use as storage after they are no longer useful in cars. Sorry if the facts aren't as rosy as you like them to be, but that's reality.

Wait, the VW eGolf and BMW i3 are not available for the mass-market in the EU? I guess holding down the number 1 and number 3 spots, respectively in sales in the EU in early 2018 don't count?

Article Topic: "Model 3 Achieves NHTSA's 'Lowest Probability' of Injury Ever"

GGP: "...either way, the tesla 3 goes on my list of 'cars to buy'..."

You: "Except for your extremely high probability of burning to death in a battery fire."

Me: "With a couple hundred million miles under their belt, the total number of battery fires in customer-owned Model 3s..."

You: "Go to Youtube and you will see plenty of videos of Tesla's on fire"

Notice how everyone else was talking about the Model 3 but you.

Why are you so intensely interested in a car that only 0.001% of the planet can even afford?

Wrong.

The top 5 cars people are trading in to buy Model 3s are: Toyota Prius, BMW 3-Series, Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Nissan Leaf.

It isn't "green". No personal car is "green"

That's like saying about rhubarb vs. water hemlock, "It isn't nontoxic. No food is devoid of toxic compounds". While true, people need cars and not all cars are equal.

Are you getting paid to shill for Tesla?

My Shill Check strangely hasn't arrived! Do you know where it might be? Does this mean that they've gone Bankwupt?! ;)

What is it?

Um, exactly what it says on the tin? I like the cars, I like the tech, and I like the company.

2012, Solar power per capita.
China is #28, America is #20
2012, wind power per capita.
China is #19, America is #7

2017, Solar power per capita.
China is #33 , America is #21
Can not find wind per capita in 2017, but China has 2x the wind of America, with 5x the population

2012, Solar power per capita.
China is #28, America is #20
2012, wind power per capita.
China is #19, America is #7

2017, Solar power per capita.
China is #33 , America is #21
Can not find wind per capita in 2017, but China has 2x the wind of America, with 5x the population