Domain: cvtinc.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to cvtinc.com.
Comments · 29
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Re:From my cold, dead, RSI-shrivelled hands
Hallelujah! (Although I just googled model that and the main drawbacks for me would be the enter key being on the small side, and the F-keys in the wrong place)
Also see http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/stellar.htm
Kinda spendy, but possibly worth it if one can afford it. For the moment I live with one of the originals - I type this on a NorthGate OmniKey/102.
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There is only one ...
'real' *computer* keyboard made anymore (at least that I've been able to find)
http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/stellar.htm
Look to the left of the 'a' key. If you see some sort of 'shift-lock' nonsense there, you have a 'typewriter' keyboard. Computer keyboards have the Control key there, where Steve Jobs and God intended, dammit!
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Re:There is only one keyboard
I'm an Omnikey man myself - been using one for about 20 years now. There is a company that makes an Omnikey clone but with windows keys. And when I say clone, I don't mean a cheap knock-off, the Avant Prime is near perfect down to using the same Alps switches. It's not cheap at $150 but I feel that mine was well worth it -- Keep in mind you will need a $15 PS2-to-USB adapter if you do not have a serial-PS2 keyboard input.
If you like the clicky feel, there is also the DAS Keyboard which is slightly cheaper at $129 and has USB (+ hub). They have a silly "Ultimate" version which has all blank keys to thwart anyone else from using your computer (err I mean to improve your typing skils). A friend of mine bought one (with the letters on it - not the blank keys). However, after he tested both his D.K. and my APrime, he was lusting over my APrime. -
If you can't move the caps lock, I'm out
No keyboard with the stupid, useless, caps lock key in the prime position (next to your pinky) is the "best" keyboard. No way in hell. If you can't dynamically move the keys *in the keyboard* so that the keyboard works identically across all of my computers (Linux AND Windows) through a keyboard switch, then it sucks.
I use the Avant Stellar, which allows me to remap any key I want IN THE KEYBOARD so no matter where I use it the keys are where I want them to be, not where some designer put them on a typewriter 40 years ago and scores of engineer sheep since have simply left them there rather than growing a pair!
The Avant Stellar comes with extra keys in the "strange" sizes to allow me to move the bigger keys like Control, Caps Lock, etc. It has 24 "function" keys, tactile feedback, and a metal back plate not chintzy plastic.
My only complaint with it is that they have yet to come out with a USB version of the keyboard (it's PS/2) which is annoying since I have to use a PS/2 to USB converter and my 8-port MiniView doesn't like it as well as a "real" USB keyboard.
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Re:Bah at model Ms
You can still buy them:
http://cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/menu.htm -
How about the $189 Avant Stellar?
Link: http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/stellar.htm It has only one modern feature: built-in macro capability and keycode swapping (no need to install software to program it).
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Re:Attention IBM Model M junkies!
I've got one of their standard 104-key models, and it's quite nice. Not quite as nice as my Avant Stellar (the reborn Northgate OmniKey), but certainly worth the money. I tend to spend more money on my peripherals, simply because I keep them longer than I keep computers.
It's just too bad that Unicomp's Linux keyboard (with the control key to the left of the A, where $DIETY intended) isn't available with USB. They do custom orders, though, hopefully it wouldn't be too expensive to get that layout. -
Northgate/Avant Keyboards were/are better
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Re:Buckling-spring keyboards
And just for the record, there are several other places to get that unmistakable buckling-spring feel:
http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/menu.htm CVT's Avant models (I'm typing this on an Avant Prime and it feels just like the Model M I use at home)
http://www.pckeyboard.com/customizer.html PC Keyboard, already mentioned in parent of this
http://www.mck142.com/ The Ortek MCK-142 monster with programmable function keys
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/classic-line/key board-standard-g80-3000.htm Cherry G80, mechnical, but I'm not sure how close to the Model M feel it has...
http://www.ergocanada.com/products/keyboards/dsi_s mk85_compact.html A compact model using ALPS keyswitches. Similar to the Model M style switches.
http://www.ergo-2000.com/ergo2000/showdetl.cfm?&DI D=6&Product_ID=624&CATID=36 Northgate Omnikey models are largely discontinued, but here's an ergo one still being sold using Alps keyswitches. You can also try ebay http://search-desc.ebay.com/omnikey_W0QQftsZ2 for used or remaindered Omnikeys.
Finally, just for learning about the buckling spring/clicky keyboards, here are some great sites for details:
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/
http://www.dansdata.com/ibmkeyboard.htm
http://thesiliconunderground.editthispage.com/2001 /02/08
And for those of you wondering why several of us are going on and on about decades-old keyboards from IBM, you owe it to yourself to at least try one of these and see what you think. Yes, they are noisier than those squishy membrane ones, but the feedback from them is amazing and you get to the point of blazing over them and often catching many typos by sound alone... -
Re:finally...
For people who loved the M and northgate keyboards check this out.....
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Re:Obligatory Northgate Shout-outI too adored Northgate's Omnikey both for crisp tactile feedback and left hand function key placement. This just always made more sense to me from an ergonomic perspective, and especially when using programs with pre-Windows roots where a lot of shortcuts were Alt-Ctrl-Shift combos with function keys).
Although I'm not happy with some design changes (the cable isn't replaceable anymore; can't recall if the config DIP switches were retained) Creative Vision Technologies (comprised partially of ex-Northgate employees) builds a nearly exact replacement - the Avant Stellar - and it has the same good feel.
http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/stellar.
h tmI've averaged about 8 years hard use per Northgate keyboard, so, although the Avant Stellar costs a lot ($189) it'll be worth it in the long run.
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Re:Keyboard Northgate Omnikey
How about the Northgate Omnikey. 116 Keys, Dual function key rows, all good. http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/stellar.
h tm -
Ditch the IBM and try one of these...
I can sympathize - I love my Northgate Omnikey keyboards. CTRL key where it should be. ALT where it should be. F-keys where they should be. Only problem is, they're not made any more. But these guys are building an acceptable, but very pricy, substitute. Uses same "clicky" Alps key switches. I'd sure like someone to buy one and tell me if it's worth it.....
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Re:Northgate
You don't have to remember the Northgate Omnikey, the design lives on, updated as the Avant Stellar, from CVT. They're awesome, especially if you're the kind of retro-dweeb who never got over the loss of the 84-key AT layout (yes I'm a dork, I'm typing on one right now and have one on my other PC plus a spare that I've never needed, and of course I still have my Omnikey 102). They're very pricey by usual PC standards but best I can tell, they last indefinitely (close to 5 years so far on this one). And they still let you put Ctrl where it belongs (but you don't have to, it comes with keycaps for both ways). No relation just happy customer and VT100 fan etc...
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Re:Odd...
It may look like a Model M, but it won't type like one. This one uses membrane keyswitches. Model M keyboards used buckling springs. See http://www.clickykeyboards.com/ for real Model M keyboards, or CVT and PCKeyboard.com for modern equivalents...
Myself, I can't live without that clicky feel, so I've got one of the Avant Primes at work (from CVT) and an old Model M at home... My quest now is for a split/ergo buckling spring model. I've only found 2 so far: the uber-rare IBM M15 and the overpriced Northgate Evolution. If anyone knows of others, please point me toward them. Thanks! -
I'd rather have one of these...
At last, someone is making a replacement for my beloved Northgate Omnikey.
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Re:Modern crappy keyboards
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CVT Avant Prime
Thats what you want.
PERFECT.
Avant Prime -
Buckling-spring keyboards
The Avant Stellar keyboard (http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/stellar
. htm) also has buckling springs. They licensed the keyboard design of the Northgate Omnikey, and it has the same built-like-a-tank feel. Unlike the Omnikeys, the Stellar has Windows keys; I use them to get both Alt and Meta under X. You can also remap the Control and Caps Lock keys in hardware---they even ship you extra keycaps in case you do switch them. And the icing on the cake, the Stellar has another set of function keys down the left-hand side (XT-style) where you can actually reach them. -
Better than the IBM "M" keyboard
was the Northgate Computer Systems Omnikey.
For those of us who learned to program before the
advent of the IBM PC, they have the "correct" layout
(the layout for which and with which vi was developed)
with the control key just to the left of the 'a', As God Intended)*
Buckling spring, Alps switches, removable keycaps, steel base,
fully programmable key assignments, DIP switches for common
configuration options. Indispensible and indestructible.
I have two, and they continue to work perfectly after
lo these many years, and there's a brisk market for them
on ebay (lots of old hackers treasure them).
But they're no longer made.
Fortunately, CTI makes a close copy. The Avant Stellar
is by all accounts superb, and bears the Tibor Polgar seal of approval.
Buy a couple while they're still made, and you're set for life.
The Customizer seems to be similar, but I have no experience with this keyboard.
* and if you're one of those people like me who has spent the
last twenty years cursing IBM for screwing up the layout of
ASCII keyboards for all time by fiddling with the the
One True Layout (with the control key to the left of the 'a'),
then you may be happy to know about the superb small program
ctrl2cap from Systems Internals, which makes the
usless never-to-be-sufficiently-damned caps lock key
into a control key. Tiny, slick, sophisticated, open source, free.
Check it out. -
The One True Keyboard
A few weeks ago I killed my Ortek keyboard. It wasn't a great keyboard; it had the "silent" mushy-keys and plenty of useless "internet" and "media" chiclet buttons. The Enter key broke and I'd fastend it with a small screw (which surprisingly didn't interfere with typing). It died in the most cliched way possible: direct coffee spillage.
The same day I drove down to Office Max to get an emergency keyboard. Everything was pretty much worthless, even compared to my old keyboard. I finally settled on a Logitech media keyboard solely on the feel of it.
I used it for about a day, then heard someone commenting on IBM Model M and Northgate keyboards. I remembered the little worthless 486 test server I had sitting in my closet, and remembered the keyboard attached to it was a Northgate. I walked over and pressed the keys...click click. Smiled, grabbed AT-to-PS/2 adapter, and replaced the new Logitech.
I'll never go back. In fact, I surprised I used anything else, because that old keyboard used to be my main keyboard back in the day. When it dies, I'll get an Avant Stellar, which is a remake of the original Northgate using the original design documents and manufacturing processes.
Every key has a perfectly balanced snap action. It provides just the right amount of force before the key clicks in, and once you hear the click you know the key has been pressed. It might sound like someone with a clicky keyboard is really pounding on it, but ideally it allows you to flit over the keyboard without having to mash every key down to the bottom to ensure it was pressed. You learn to hear each keypress, and can often catch an accidental extra letter by ear.
And now you know why all the old laptops had a "key-click" noisemaking feature, sometimes in the BIOS. -
Best Keyboard EverI still love my CVT Avant Stellar keyboard. 116 keys, all programmable, and the macros go with the keyboard when I move it from machine to machine. I've been banging on one at work for close to four years now without a hitch.
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Try Creative Vision Technologies
Pricey, but heavy and built solid. http://www.cvtinc.com/. The Stellar, with extra F-keys down the side, is a disappointment: I wanted extra keys, but the side F-keys send the same codes as the top F-keys. They have a Windows program to change key codes, but won't release the protocol and aren't interested in anyone writing a Linux version ("somebody else wrote it; we just re-sell it").
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Re:Amiga & Northgate Omni Key Ultra keyboards
The Avant Prime and Stellar keyboards (mentioned elsewhere in this thread; see the CVT web site for details) were evidently designed by the folks who did the Northgate Omnikey, and judging by a review I read, share its sturdiness. (The key reprogramming software runs under Windows; no word as to whether it will run under WINE.) Rather pricey at $150, but if you're at your keyboard a lot, it might be worth it.
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Old IBM "battleship" keyboards still available
As the article states, new buckling spring keyboards are available. This is the company that bought the design of the original IBM PC keyboard. The equivalent model is the "Customizer" for $49. Not a bad deal for those of us who hate crappy $9 membrane keyboards. Just don't type while your spouse is trying to sleep...
FWIF, another company with great, although expensive ($150), programable BS keyboards.
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Re:KING OF THE HILL - CLASSIC KB USERS UNITE!
Over the years, I have accomulted five OmniKeys different OmniKeys. My main one survived anything from cats sleeping on it to coke poured into it, pizza falling on it, dropping onto the floor, etc.
I don't use 'em anymore because my wrists were starting to die. I have to admit that this @#%&( Microsoft Natural Keyboard deal is actually helping.
HOWever, if you want an OmniKey with Flying Windows keys, you might want to look at an Avant Stellar keyboard. Manufactured based on the original OmniKey blueprints, or something. They're fully programmable now, too. Cost a lot, but you know these things'll last a lifetime.
Make sure you're actually looking at the Stellar and not the Avant Prime, which has no side F-Keys. -
Best Keyboard Ever
Remember the Northgate OmniKey 802? If so, you want to take a look at the Avant Stellar, from Creative Vision Technologies, which bought Northgate's plans when they went belly-up. No fancy ergo-shapes here, just six pounds of steel, an unbelievably solid feel, infinite reprogrammability, and function keys across the top and down the left side, as God intended them to be.
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Re:The preachings of a keyboard zealot
If you're a fan of the OmniKey (formerly Northgate) keyboards, you might want to visit Creative Vision Technologies --
http://www.cvtinc.com/
They are making the "Avant Stellar" keyboard based on the OmniKey design... -
Best KeyboardNorthgate Omnikey Ultra keyboard with the Alt, CTRL, and Caps Lock keys swapped. Sigh. If I could only find a cheap place to find these...
(Yes, I know about the Avant keyboards, but they're $189. People who sell Northgate keyboards on Ebay normally don't have the swappable keys...)