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A Condensed History Of The Keyboard
An anonymous reader points to this overview of old (good) keyboards versus the cheap and nasty kind which begins "Today's keyboards aren't what they used to be, no sir! Back in my day, we had our BS technology; our keyboards had chassis's which allowed 'em to be thrown off a 3-story building and still work - barely dented. Yes those were the days." Not a lot of new information, but some good visuals.
In those days, 'audiovisual feedback' actually meant something. Long rolls of dead tree recording every single charxxxacaaxxxx ^h^h\H^H^H/d/d ^C^C^Q^Deof.DAMN...
Ceci n'est pas une signature
Quoting the story: Key caps allow one to reconfigure their letters without actually prying off the keys from the keyboard. This was implemented due to the aforementioned QWERTY/Dvorak controversy.
I loved the ability to remove the cap keys, every few weeks I would remove all the cap keys from my keyboard and clean each one by hand using a bleach solution, inside and out. It's great for all us obsessive-compulsive cleaners.
The other great thing about them was the ability to play practical jokes, all one had to do was change around a few 'key' keys and watch all the non-touch typists in a computer lab get pissed off at the computer. And with Windows 2k, I'd change the insert and delete keys around, (makes it hard to use CTRL-ALT-DEL to get to the login screen)
Accentuate the positive, don't waste your mod points on the negative.
I loved mine and I am still looking for one of those old clickity clackity huge heavy monsters with their wonderous tactile feedback feel.
Anyone else in the same boat?
At least I still have my Logitech 3 button mouse.
What is your favorite keyboard type?
ACK
was the ones that came with the orignal XT. It weighed more than most PCs do today, but had wonderful scuplted keys and a great tactile feel, rather like the selectric ball typewriters they sold back then.
The original MAC keyboards made a rather strange sound when you typed quickly, you could hear the springs creaking.
My rights don't need management.
That'd be "First Post" if I had a real keyboard.
No new information in a history of something? How surprising!
Ah yes, the keyboards of old could be thrown from a 747 into the middle of the Pacifac, and when they washed ashore, they would still function... but they didn't have an E-mail button. After all, what good is a keyboard without an E-mail button?
"It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
"Back in my day, we had our BS technology..which allowed 'em to be thrown off a 3-story building and still work"
If you throw BS off a 3-story building, it sure is guarnteed to work! Even now, I swear!! If you have any doubts, ask SCO.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Thing I never understood about modern computer keyboards is the staggered layout of the rows -- presumably a throwback from old typewriter days, but I think they'd be far more efficient if the keys were arranged in a proper grid (ie the H directly beneath the Y, and not slightly to the right).
Karma: NaN
... was embedded into the computer, like the trusty Amiga had ! How we all miss those
"I am not bound to please thee with my answers" [William Shakespeare]
They also weighed more than the CRT, and easily drowned out my Adlib soundcard when I went up to 60 wpm.
we used to have keyboard sword-fights with DEC terminal keyboards.
You can have my IBM Model M when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
Today's keyboards aren't what they used to be, no sir! Back in my day, we had our BS technology; our keyboards had chassis's which allowed 'em to be thrown off a 3-story building and still work - barely dented. Yes those were the days. Now we've got these newfangled Wireless Ergonomic E-Mail button membrane keyboards. To heck with them, I say!
This article really entails two things: The history of the Universal or QWERTY keyboard layout and a comparison between BS and Membrane technology used today in keyboards, one of the most used interfaces to the computer at present.
QWERTY keyboards are known as Universal keyboards - they are the standard by which keyboard manufacturers produce their keyboards today. It was named this due to the q,w,e,r,t,y pattern in the upper left hand corner of the keyboard. QWERTY was originally designed by Christopher Sholes to slow typing down.
Wait a second why would we be using a keyboard layout made to slow us down? Let's look back before keyboards - typewriting. In 1868 Christopher Latham Sholes was awarded the operative patent for the typewriter. After receiving this patent, Sholes still had many 'bugs' to work out, and spent a good deal of time with the machine, working out the kinks. One of the kinks in the machine was key jamming, which was prone to happen often and could hurt the machine. If a typist typed two letters one after the other too quickly, the hammers would hit each other; the typist then had to dislodge the hammers and that could get a bit messy. So, Sholes came up with a keyboard layout that would place letters which would be most likely struck closely in succession on opposite sides of the layout.
Eventually, due to the ability to touch type with QWERTY efficiently [first demonstrated when in a typing contest a QWERTY typist managed to type quicker than someone on a stenograph-styled machine] it became the standard.
In 1936, August Dvorak patented his Simplified Keyboard - DSK. It was designed to balance the load of typing more evenly - those letters, which would be stricken most, would be under the strongest fingers. The credibility of the claims that the Dvorak is faster is outside the scope of this article. If one is truly interested, I recommend reading an informative article at: http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html. However I do believe that Dvorak perhaps is the better layout - although due to my experience with QWERTY I still stick with it. For those of you who think Dvorak is a legacy item no longer used, you will all be pleased to know that all windows versions greater than 3.11 are Dvorak compliant, and a simple setting can change the layout setting.
On to the Keyboards!
To this day I still use the IBM Model M keyboard. This keyboard was released with the original IBM PS/2 computer. It is known for it's weight, feedback, and distinctive keystroke sound. There are some Model M's which are branded by Lexmark on the back - Lexmark bought the design from IBM in the late 1980s.
Model M's are 101 key keyboards, and still comply with all ps/2 requirements [read on for Pentium 4 possible incompatibilities and fixes.] What makes this keyboard so special?
The first aspect that is most obvious upon actually typing is the sound and feel of the keyboard. There is a noticeable and quite prominent 'click' which is not as high pitched as some Chiconey keyboards (which are quite nice too,) the sound is not soft and mushy. The Model M's keys also have a bit of resistance to them - not so that it's hard to push them down, but just a tad bit more pressure is needed to fully depress a key. Now, for those of you up late at night, or up in the wee hours of the morning, perhaps this is a disadvantage for you. Also, many people prefer not to hear the keystroke - companies like Dell, IBM, and hundreds of others have manufactured (or sub-contracted other companies) to make quiet keyboards. Let's take a look at why these keyboards are quiet, and w
Why do I h8 apple?
Mirror here for the PS/2 modification for operation with some p4 motherboards
-dk
This is quickly going to turn into a lovefest for the IBM M keyboard.
I have several of them stashed away on the off chance that the one I've been using for the past 13 years breaks. Which it hasn't. Hoping to sell it on "Antiques Roadshow" in about 40 years.
Back in my day we chiseled everything on a stone tablet
Just another day in Paradise
I will probably get totally flamed for this but I think the best keyboards I have owned have all been made by Microsoft. Right now I am using the Office Keyboard and I love it. The action is great and the extra keys actually serve my purpose (I work in Excel and Word all day).
I know M$'s OS is crap, but their keyboards and mice have always been built to a very high quality.
Expensive, but well worth the money!!!
Not a lot of new information, but some good visuals.
When the eye candy is twice as nice the slashdotting is twice as fast.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I worked at IBM in Rochester, MN for a time. There seemed to be a good few model M's in the recycle bins. Unfortunately, most of them were failing for one reason or another. The key sensors seem to go bad after 20 years it seems.
Indeed. Today's keyboards can be picked up for less than a fiver. Try picking one up for that price back in the "old days".
There are plenty of good keyboards out there, but because the PC market is often dictated by price, you see more of the cheap ones than you do anything else.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I still use my IBM 52G9658 M-type keyboard for everything I can--this keyboard actually helped with my wrists. I was having tender wrists (which I'm sure would be much worse if I wasn't taking regular breaks, doing the exercises, etc.), but after I started using my "new" old keyboard my pain went away and has yet to return. My doctor says that if the pain's gone, there's no need to worry any more--so I'm a very happy IBM model M user.
Q: "Why do sound techs say 'check 1, 2'?"
A: "Cause if they could count any higher they'd be lighting techs."
I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy the quiet touch of my laptop's keyboard while I'm coding... its so much easier to fly across the keys without having to slam each one home... just my opinion
Back in my day, keyboards *actually* *did* *dent*, unlike the no-heft plastic chassis crud we have to deal with today. Don't get me wrong - I love my new Logitech cordless, but heft is underrated - it scoots across the table when the fan isn't turned *just* *right*.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2001/08/keyboard.html
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein
This only reflects the movement of the computing model, and the seperation of what is regarded as essential to what is regarded as an accessory.
"I am not bound to please thee with my answers" [William Shakespeare]
That's simply wrong. QWERTY was designed to speed typing up by spacing out the most used keys to different sides of the keyboard.
QWERTY was designed as he states to reduce jamming of the hammers, not to slow typists down. Even without hammers QWERTY was still faster due to the use of both hands for common letters.
The QWERTY keyboard was not designed to "slow typing down", buy rather to reduce the number of jams in a much more elegant way. It avoids having frequent adjacent letter pairs activating levers that are close to each other on the typewriters mechanism. This means that jams (which occur between adjacent levers) occur less frequently when typing FAST!
I used to be a tarible typist, a typical "hunt and peck" aproch to typing then I got a ms natural, and couse of how they keyboard is split, it forced me to type corectly and thus I became faster at typeing couse hunt and peck becomes more of a chore and you learn ware the keys are faster. of course now when I use a normal style kb it trips me up ;).
;)
yes I know my post is filled with realy bad spelling errors but i've been up all nite and too lazy to load up dictionary.com to look up words
i started on a pussy-ass IBM PCjr keyboard. not the weird chicklet style one, the other one. that sucked, it is like typing on a laptop keyboard.
http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:UwFu_Q0Ssx8J: www.viperlair.com/articles/techreport/input/bsmemb rane.shtml+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
There's the google cache for the upcoming slashdotting.
I got a quasi-auditory feedback by turning on FAST mode where the TV screen would blank on each keypress and the CRT kinda hissed when it happened.
On the whole I can type faster on a cell phone keypad than on that PoS.
For this, I nominate the ZX-81 keyboard WORST KEYBOARD EVER.
... in the MMMMMMMMMMMaster of all keyboards....
here is a short description(wiht pics;o))(cause I suppose you've never seen a kbd, have you???)!!!!).
Surely Model M has its place in the history....
1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
The "M" was IBM's attempt to bring their
Selectric typewriter feel to the PC. It
is better that the current keyboards; but
more expensive. With the "M", you felt like
you were using a tool. The feedback was
crisp, not like the oozy feedback you get with
modern keyboard.
didn't we have this one already?
/. database now!
Are they now posting stuff from a year back?
ow now somebody is looping the posts!
they must be hacking the
quick call ehm.. cowboy neal!
greetz
Ivo
But my Microsoft Natraul keyboard rocks! The multimedia keys can even be configured in linux when using gnome 2.3.
I miss the good old keyboards when all you had to choose from was Samba, Bosa Nova, Rock and Jazz. Now these new fangled keyboards got so many buttons you can barley rock out your two-fingered Axel F./Close Encounters medley.
--I'm not talking about dance lessons. I'm talking about putting a brick through the other guy's windshield.-
Get your self a nice Space Cadet Keyboard. Nice action, plus you never know when you will need triangle, meta, super, or hyper!
Actually this is something I have been trying to hunt down for a couple years, quite a nice piece of equipment.
The keyboard I have now is the best feeling one I have owned, it replaced the Honeywell BS keyboard I was using from 1992. I bought it for $3 on the internet while getting some other stuff.
/
Here it is, the Solidtek 270A. It's a membrane board but the membranes are really resistent at first and then give in completely. You don't have that uncertainty after you hit a key of whether or not it registered. It even has 3 extra buttons, Sleep, Wake Up, and Power, but I can't get them to work in linux. :
Also, I remember grade 9 typing class. 35 Model Ms all going at once, it was extremely noisy. And I'm sure the engineers at IBM would move the keycaps around to write swears and question eachother's sexuality too while they were designing it. Good times.
...was made by Wyse, attached to a Wyse 286 PC I used at work many years ago. It had neither an XT nor a PS/2 connector; instead, it attached via a modular phone (RJ-11) style connector. It had a very light touch and a nice sound. I wish I could get one for my G4.
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
I am writing this with a OmniKey 101 from my first computer which has long since died. I take this keyboard from job to job and it's really funny to see the look of the "kids" that look at for the first time.
Weighin' in at over three pounds, tactile, removable keys (not that it's ever been cleaned...) and it sounds like an M-60 in full auto when I'm furiously typing.
I love this thing.
By the way, does anyone know of a old-style keyboard connector to USB changer? I have a feeling that my PS/2 connector is about to out moded...
Chris
So Buddha walks into a pizza parlor and says: "Hey, make me one with everything."
The Trust ErgoTrack keyboard. Best keyboard I have ever used. It's split like the MS Natural but it feels a lot better.
I've had it about 5 years- sprayed it all black.
It's full of memories!
(And crumbs and hair, and dust and countless other, more dubious substances).
graspee
I had a Commodore AT Keyboard... When I got my new PC I got an AT to PS2 adapter so that I didn't have to use the god awful keyboard that came with it... Then one day the spacebar stopped working... I love you old Commodore keyboard! you will be missed...
Google cache of the article how to modify an old IBM keyboard to work on a new P4 computer.
I had no such problems though. Maybe it's because I have an Athlon...
High school, circa 198x. I'm "lab monitor", and I'm out one day. I come back and a teacher very nicely explains to me that one of the keyboards fell off the counter, and that they put it all back together, only they lost the "b" key. As if this was ok?! I sat down at the machine, pulled up another keyboard, and began touching all the keys to make sure they had been put back properly. Space bar wouldn't go down. Sure enough, B key was stuck under the spacebar.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
My favourite keyboards were the one for the PCjr (not the chicklet one) and the one for the Atari PC1. They both had a very light, non-rubbery feel to them.
I've just spent an exhaustive search for a replacement desktop keyboard and was absolutely dismayed by the garbage keyboards out there. What I really wanted was one that had key switches similar to my old IBM T23 laptop, the best keyboard ever IMHO. I eventually found one, and it is close, but not quite as good as the IBM.
For those interested, you can see it at Precision Squared. Look for the PSK-5000 model. For touch typists, I highly recommend this keyboard. Mac users can find its equivalent with the MacAlly IceKey which appears to be a re-branded PSK-5000.
www.brownsauce.org
But, some how, the membrane keyboard was just about right. Keys had feedback, because the rubber mat was just about perfect. The keys were just where I needed them.
Sinclair released a cheaper version for his flagship Spectrum system a little later, which had virtually no feedback and which was so poorly built that if you turned many of the machines upside down, all the keys would fall out...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I liked keyboards before 3 keys were devoted to showing MS's monopoly.
When the windows key was invented.
What a coincidence -- I actually had to take my work KB (a new IBM mush-model similar to the one in the article) apart to fix it Monday because the 'p' key was getting less and less reliable, and my typing was steadily getting worse.
When I popped the 'p' key off and looked underneath, the rubber contact mat was off center, like it had been stretched underneath so the contact didn't line up under the key. I pulled a few screws, blew out the dust and the rubber spring mat that lies on the contacts was misaligned by, like, 1/4 inch in areas. I pulled it off and tried to re-align it properly when I realized that the plastic/mylar/whatever contact sheet on the bottom wasn't flat either - like a rug that wasn't quite cut the correct shape for a room, there was a hump in it. I loosened the screws around the contacts to the PCB and I was able to then flatten the contact sheet and retighten, then realign the rubber springmat and reassemble.
Voila! Perfect. I want to point out three things.
1) It's still not a model M. If you find an old one GET IT, even if it's missing a few keys. Your neighbors' neighbors will hate all the clicking, but your fingers will be very, very happy. I personally have one of these as well as an original Northgate Omnikey Ultra purchased by me from Northgate Inc. in 1990 which was in use until March of this year. I replaced it because I bought a new PC and wanted a wireless KB. Every collector's shelf should have a Northgate on it, too.
2) This new IBM has way more contacts inside than keys. I realize this is so they can produce one electronic assembly to support 15 languages, but I wonder what the other contacts would do if I hit them. Maybe I'll get bored later today.
3) IBM's subassembly quality control has really hit the can. I realize this is a $5 keyboard, which by its design expects a certain number of defects, but if you could see how badly aligned the springmat was in this thing... SHEESH!
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
I've got one of the keyboards mentioned in the article--specifically, the 101-key Customizer, from www.pckeyboard.com. It weighs about five pounds, and feels like it could be used to bash in an intruder's head if necessary. Plus, it doesn't have Windows keys, which is a boon when I'm gaming--no more accidentally dumping me out to the desktop during heated Battlefield 1942 matches!
It's buckling-spring and loud as hell, though it doesn't sound quite the same as a Model M. Still key response is crisp and exactly matches what I want out of a keyboard. It is easily the best computer-related purchase I have ever made. After all, what part of your computer do you physically interact with every time you sit down?
A few weeks ago I killed my Ortek keyboard. It wasn't a great keyboard; it had the "silent" mushy-keys and plenty of useless "internet" and "media" chiclet buttons. The Enter key broke and I'd fastend it with a small screw (which surprisingly didn't interfere with typing). It died in the most cliched way possible: direct coffee spillage.
The same day I drove down to Office Max to get an emergency keyboard. Everything was pretty much worthless, even compared to my old keyboard. I finally settled on a Logitech media keyboard solely on the feel of it.
I used it for about a day, then heard someone commenting on IBM Model M and Northgate keyboards. I remembered the little worthless 486 test server I had sitting in my closet, and remembered the keyboard attached to it was a Northgate. I walked over and pressed the keys...click click. Smiled, grabbed AT-to-PS/2 adapter, and replaced the new Logitech.
I'll never go back. In fact, I surprised I used anything else, because that old keyboard used to be my main keyboard back in the day. When it dies, I'll get an Avant Stellar, which is a remake of the original Northgate using the original design documents and manufacturing processes.
Every key has a perfectly balanced snap action. It provides just the right amount of force before the key clicks in, and once you hear the click you know the key has been pressed. It might sound like someone with a clicky keyboard is really pounding on it, but ideally it allows you to flit over the keyboard without having to mash every key down to the bottom to ensure it was pressed. You learn to hear each keypress, and can often catch an accidental extra letter by ear.
And now you know why all the old laptops had a "key-click" noisemaking feature, sometimes in the BIOS.
...
If you read Slashdot are you a geek? No, but if you obsess over various types of keyboards you'll be branded a geek faster than you can say "buckling spring."
I fell in love with BS keyboards (IBM model M) back in college. I've been looking for one for myself ever since. Here's the dilemma: My primary computer is a Mac. Most of the Model Ms I've seen use a funky type of RJ45-like connector. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that:
1. Makes USB buckling spring keyboards?
2. Supports their use on the Mac OS?
Many thanks...CTP
"War makes me sad." - Me
A year ago, I got myself a Kinesis Contoured keyboard. It took me two weeks and a couple of hours of TuxTyping to get used to it, but since then it's great. I've never had any real RSI, but the Kinesis makes you sit more comfortable. You sit with straight arms; horizontally as well as in a straight angle.
It's quite expensive, though. :-/
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Unfortunately, they were generally selling for $15-20 last time I checked, but I'd rather pay that for a good keyboard than buy a [new] $6.99 piece of crap.
I'm down to one now, though -- stepped on one (don't ask), the cat dumped a glass of beer in another one (again, don't ask, please...).
"Today's websites aren't what they used to be, no sir! Back in my day, we had our caching technology; our wesites had redundency which allowed 'em to be slashdotted and still work - barely dented. Yes those were the days."
[Please type your sig here.]
What consoles were/are these? I've worked with some really old consoles before, and they've all still been operating correctly. (Including an old Kliegl [Performer? I think thats it] that used tape storage and had an embedded monitor).
--
lds
What's the point of a keyboard if you can't spell, for heaven's sake? It's "chassis", singular or plural. Got it? Cripes!
I was introduced into the wonderful Model M about a year and a half ago when I picked two up a flea market for $5 along with some old mice.
I'd been using both Model Ms on my main and secondary machines at home. But a few months ago I got a mini-keyboard made by BTC. Its like the Happy Hacking keyboard. Its got great tactile feedback, similar to the M but without the same sound. The added desk space is nice too.
-phish
QWERTYUIOP[]\
ASDFGHJKL;'
ZXCVBNM,./
It's not that funny, but the lameness filter still sucks... la la la la la
- Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
No, they don't make them like they used to :)
Until he finally explained on page 2 that BS technology is an abreviation for Buckling Spring technology, I was reading Bullshit technology every time.
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
To the lazy people, lemme reproduce the link:
What I find funny, besides the comment that what causes limb disorders is the stress of deadlines and not the keyboard (citing gamers who supposedly don't have any problems, hah!), is the author's choice of pictures. I guess I can understand lara croft, but what's with the cat? And look at the caption on that picture...I don't know, I have a weird sense of humor, maybe it's just funny to me.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
before they got all artsy-fartsy. Now the keyboard is the first thing I toss when I buy a new Mac.
I loved how the caps lock actually locked down at half-height on the old Apple Pro Keyboard, so you could tell by touch if the caps lock was on.
Poor site has been /.'d for awhile now.
There are some Model M's which are branded by Lexmark on the back - Lexmark bought the design from IBM in the late 1980s.
As any oldskooler would tell you, Lexmark is a spin-off of IBM, back in the 90's.
I recently bought a Model-M for work. It's brand new (but was built in 1999, as can be seen from the sticker on the back).
www.pckeyboard.com sells them. If they are out of IBM model-Ms you can buy buckling spring keyboards made by unicomp. For an extra 5$ you can get "cap and stem" which is removable keycaps.
When I bought from unicomp it was a pleasure. They keyboard arrived very quickly.
There\'s no place like ~
I've used many keyboards since of course, and whilst I seem to have settled on Microsoft keyboards these days I still haven't found anything nicer than the ancient Apple. Co-incidently (or not, as the case may be...) the keyboard on the 12" Powerbook is also extremely nice.
Cheers,
Ian
Seriously, Don't take anything I say seriously.
I don't remember the name of the company, I wasn't very interested because, you see, I've already got one. :^P
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Check out the Logitech Elite there at the top. Best keyboard made.
Alternatively, if you just need something simple for office use, or to purchase in volume, the Mitsumi KFK-EA4XT is a solid no-frills keyboard. I use it on all my secondary systems.
The unofficial
DoesThatMeanTheyHadABrokenSpaceBar? :)
PCkeyboard sells old-styled IBM keyboards in different mods. I personnally like the black one without any marking and a red trackpoint in the middle
Have a look at http://www.pckeyboard.com/.
.au but euh... I wasn't happy with the price. I've asked them again, maybe the price has dropped a little bit.
Asked them one time how much it costs to get one shipped to
bash$
Although he doesn't mention it, but how much did they cost back then? Adjusting for inflation, they probably cost more than new ones cost today. One thing it interesting to note that most of the functionality hasn't changed. Sure newer keyboards are wireless and have additional buttons, but older ones work just as well.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Back in 1996 I found a classic 101 still in the box in my company's junk room. I recognized it from my old army days and snatched it up. I'm still using it today and it's still in perfect condition. If you can find one, buy it.
my wife still types as if she is using the old-fashioned typewriter she learnt to type on. she is so loud i have to ask her to stop typing if i want to use the phone, god help the people in her office.
All I Want For Christmas Is My Constitutional Rights
Newer keyboards have all these keys that I don't use but I don't mind them too much as they are optional from manufacturers. The one useless key that I hate is that damn Windows key. It always gets in my way when I use CTRL and ALT. As far as I can tell it's completely useless for most everyday functions. Incidently, I've noticed it's in the exact position as the Apple key on Apple keyboards. But on the Apple it is better spaced to avoid conusion and it is used for shortcuts.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Same story here.
If you can't beat a luser senseless with it, it's not a keyboard, that's what I say.
Don't get me wrong - I code for a living, so I can certainly appreciate the value of the keyboard as a user interface peripheral. A good friend of mine who had RSI in his wrists really bad switched to using Dragon speech recognition software exclusively. Listening to him attempt to code (in Perl) was pretty funny, e.g. saying "twiddle" for "~" and such.
Mod me down for being off topic, but I cannot resist mentioning the Star Trek (#4 - with the whales) movie where Scottie attempts to use the computer from the past by talking to it.
It just goes to show how far off we are in terms of a truely intuitive user interface.
Here.
:(
My university has a few Model M's around. My teacher won't trade, sell or give any of them to me though
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics
Is that they suck for FPS-ish gaming where you want more sensitivity...my UT performance went up considerably when my much-loved IBM PS/2 keyboard met an unfortuant death at the hands of a can of coke.
And though it may only be me, my hands used to get tired and sore after long bouts of typing with them.
...Some people actually PREFER keyboards that respond to your fingers, rather than keyboards that you have to jump on in order to (maybe) punch in a key.
I do have some old keyboards lying around, and I use them for spare parts whenever one of my newer keyboards decide to call it a day. However, I prefer the new ones for their unique useability and feel.
Is it only me that remembers when you could get key reads for multiple keys?
Test case: Playing doubles on Mortal Kombat on PC, with two people on the keyboard. After 3/4 keypresses of at the same time, the rest is ignored. This didn't use to happen on the older keyboards. This did create some interesting tactics for the game tho =)
Why not go way oldschool and build yourself and original keyboard.
Gotta scroll down to see it.
---
eeww, I'll have a crab juice.
Apparently you can find them for sale, albeit in limited quantities, here (as well as on eBay, natch).
There's a site all about the thing at www.modelm.org, but I can't get to the server right now, so here's a Google cache instead.
... a fairly decent diatribe on why SHIFT keys are bad, bad, bad, but I can't remember enough words to find it with google.
Anyone know of a good designers style diatribe against the idea of SHIFT and modal interfaces and such? I think "Design of Everyday Things" had a chapter on it, but I for sure remember reading something, while researching keyboard designs, which really struck home on why SHIFT/ALT/CTRL/WIN/CMD/APPLE keys have been terrible concepts to inflict on the computer user...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
They have it in black now, too. Unfortunately, they still don't have a USB version.
Haven't seen one for years, but I still remember the good solid thunk of the model 026 keypunch machine. With the tactile and audible feedback the machine gave you really knew something was happening. Is anyone still making keypunch machines?
Though they only worked with terminals, the *real* manly keyboard in a world of manly keyboards was the IBM 3270/5250 terminal keyboard. Twenty-four function keys across the top, ten special purpose function keys on the left side, arrow keys actually laid out in a diamond shape instead of the common upside-down T, a numeric keypad, and a keyboard cable so thick it could be used to support bridges.
Add to the fact that it had a metal casing similar to the original IBM keyboard whereas the later model keyboards, and all the PS/2 keyboards are plastic. Tough plastic to be sure, but I still was able to chip and crack one.
With all that you had a keyboard that weighed two pounds!
I rescued one from a dumpster, but couldn't figure out the pin configuration to make any kind of whatever-to-ps2 adapter.
Even stranger were the IBM 3278 terminal keyboards..they had a weird form of tactile feedback that has to be used to be believed. They were more conventional in terms of layout, but were packaged into a case that, while detached from the terminal itself, was a massive block of metal that weighed in at 2+ pounds.
The strangest keyboard I think IBM ever made was a keyboard for the Chinese; it was big (I think it was about two feet square) and was laid out like a giant tablet; the left side was a massive set of overlays and "mushy" buttons" with individual characters, and the right side had conventional keys a la the 3270/5250 keyboard. I wish I had some pictures of it...it was in IBM's computer exhibit at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago for years and years, but that exhibit has long since disappeared and with it the keyboard.
You gotta hand it to IBM...they built their (mainframe) equipment to last. I fully expect to be sitting at the Social Security office when I'm 70+, complaining about my measly $2.53 check with a person sitting in front of an IBM terminal with one of those massive metal keyboards. Fun!
If you liked the model M like I do, you can get a more modern version called the "Trackpoint IV".
l r= &ie=UTF-8&q=Trackpoint+IV+keyboard&spell=1
Same rugged keys, but it has a PS/2-style connector as well as a built-in trackpoint mouse (ala "nipple"). Plus it comes in black.
I bought one and it has become my favorite keyboard.
Picture:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have pounded on them, played Quake for countless hours, beat on them in evey way and I'm still on my first ;)
If you have an Omnikey - the windows (95,98) software has been posted in my last Journal entry, go check it out. Don't forget macros!
The 101 bug is highly overrated too. I've had my Omnikey go wacky on me a few times, just pull the cable out, hold down 'esc' and plug back in - full reset.
I think I've seen an USB to PS/2 adapter of some sort on Tiger Direct? or something...
Best Keyboards Ever
Here's my antique keyboard it punches morse code tapes.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I used to have problems with my hands hurting after coding all night (for my own fun) with keyboards of the normal type including the IBM model M (I have 3 anyone want one). My outfingers joints would ache, and my hands hurt from twisting my hand into contortions attempting to press all of the special keys which get used quite often while programming.
I went through several keyboards looking for one which would make it less painful to do something which I really enjoyed. I never wanted to admit to buying anything of an ergonimic keyboard especially one from Microsoft. However, after working on a friends all night, I didn't notice the pain from using it. I ended up ordering a simple Microsoft Elite with the parts for a new computer.
Since using the this keyboard I find my fingers have rarely hurt unless I'm typing really fast for extended periods of time. Other benefits of this keyboard is that it is reasonably quiet (I don't wake up the house with my typing now) and it feels really good. I don't plan on getting another keyboard anytime soon. The only company that I can say comes close to Microsofts keyboards and mice (I've tried several also) is Logitech (whose mice I usually prefer)
Reserved Word.
My first 386 PC was a IBM PS/Valuepoint (1994). All I can say is that every upgrade since then, Ive used the same keyboard (a "BS" style) and it still works as well as the first day. I hope it never dies!
"Them old IBM Clunkers as Sn1per from Virtual Hideout called them..."
I remember when people had cool online handles. Now its all "Jack12391a" and "Sn1per."
I usually hate the keyboards that come with computers. Either the keys are too small, or the feel is spongy. There is always something. That is why I take my old school Gateway2000 AnyKey programmable keyboard to every job I have had the last 5 years. It is large with a nice touch. It has an extra row of function keys on the left side that I can program for UNIX macros, and it has a complete keypad and a separate 9 key arrow pad on the right. Great for games. I have 3 of them so I don't have to use a computer for work or at home without one.
Dvorak actually tries to put the typist in a better position by putting the keys in such a position so that it would allow them to type in a strumming motion (type one or two letters on the left, one or two on the right).
On QWERTY, it is so unbalanced that there are plenty of "one hand" words that have to be typed with just one hand, reducing accruacy in most circumstances. The longest one that I know of is "desegregated", while the longest "one hand" word on Dvorak in the entire English language is "papaya".
On the issue of speed, however, the test have shown that neither will increase your speed if you get used to using them. The conclusion is: Good typists type fast, those who are not don't. It dosen't matter what layout you use. Still, many still switch to the Dvorak keyboard because of comfort, as since 70% of all typing is done on the home row, your fingers move around a lot less, resulting in a much longer typing time before your hands get tired or fingers cramped, etc.
this is an old article.
posted bout a year ago.
5i9|\|3d, 5|\|ip3ri|\|di59ui53
Like an ADB version of the M... and with an adaptor it works with my G4!
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
I have some old compaq keyboard here at my job and i swear to god, the thing is so heavy it could be used as a murder weapon... wouldn't want to see this baby drop on the floor! I guess people didn't want their keyboard to move a bit back in the days...
I have 2 keyboards from Leading Edge 286s. These keyboards are a joy to use. Everytime I see one at a garage sale, or Goodwill I snap it up. I have given them to friends and family, to spread the joy of "real" keyboards.
There must be different types of Model M keyboards. Mine is made on 7/23/95 and is really quiet. It's heavy like the keyboards from the 80's, but is even quieter than modern keyboards since the keys don't clatter and move from side to side.
Personally I prefer the Compaq keyboards from a few years ago. Before they started putting multimedia buttons on the keyboard and using bright colors.
"One of the kinks in the machine was key jamming... If a typist typed two letters one after the other too quickly, the "hammers" would hit each other... So, Sholes came up with a keyboard layout that would place letters which would be most likely struck closely in succession on opposite sides of the layout."
OK, so how does placing common digraphs at opposite ends of the keyboard "slow typing down"? That's right, it doesn't, as it only required the typist to learn a new key layout. What it does do is reduce the possibility of the hammers colliding and jamming. On an original Sholes typewriter, if you want to hit two letters whose hammers are right next to one another, you have to wait until the first letter is almost all the way back in the resting position before you hit the next letter if you want to avoid a jam. Two letters with hammers at opposite ends, though-- the first letter need only fall back a fraction of the distance before it's out of the path of the next letter. He came up with an elegant solution to an unforseen problem.
I wish people would stop villifying Sholes with the "he did it to slow us down" story.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Think before you post comments. Look at how your hands sit at the keyboard. They sit at angles and when you extend your fingers do they go straight up and down???? NO! The right hand fingers go about 30 degrees to the left etc. Thats because that is more comfortable than trying to hold both hands parallel and extend the fingers straight that way.
I'm one of those few people who enjoy their split keyboard. I've owned my Logitech wireless natural for at least 4 years now. It's my most heavily used keyboard and has stood the test of time quite well and the keys are actually quite responsive. Batteries last nearly 6 months. And perhaps the biggest reason I like the keyboard is I don't have tiny little dainty hands. I was always told growing up that I had fingers for playing piano so the exteneded stretch on the keys is a plus. Now, if only they made a 'smaller' natural keyboard withouth the "Num Pad". Gotta be Logitech though, or at least their key layout. Microsoft's is too clumsy in design.
Always thought those things were way too loud *ducks*
:)
. htm
What about the Gateway 2000 Anykey keyboards?? I have one myself that I swiped from the computer lab long ago... love the touch, and the programming features come in pretty handy. Can even remap keys to emulate the "MS keys" if you so desire. Occasionally it will get a little outta whack, so it's handy to have a reference on how to clear the thing if ncessary
http://emerson13.home.att.net/AnyKey_Instructions
You can download a program to do it, or you can edit the registry:
Hive: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
Key: System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout
Name: Scancode Map
Data Type: REG_BINARY
Value: 00000000000000000300000000005BE000005CE000000000
You will probably need to create this value, as it is not present by default. You may wish to cut and paste the value from this page to guard against typos. A reboot may be necessary for it to take effect. Of course, use caution and frequent backups whenever you edit the Registry.
Fujitsu used to make these GREAT keyboards with real switches in 'em. They had this incredible clicky feel to them and I could fly on 'em.
*sigh* those were the good ole days.
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Read it while you wait for Viperlair's server to un-Slashdot itself :-).
Does anyone remember the USB keyboards which used to have a USB-splitter built in - so that instead of taking of the only USB port on say, a laptop, you would actually come out with one extra.
I've been looking for these for ages, and I know MS used to make one, but nobody seems to have anything like that anymore. A USB keyboard with a built-in jack always seemed like a good idea to me (if you like USB keyboards), and a lot cheaper/more-convenient than buying a seperate hub just to get that extra port.
No no no. QWERTY was not designed to slow typists down, it was designed to allow typists to type faster. The article is correct in pointing out that the hammers of the keys could get "tangled" or locked together, but the conclusion is wrong. While those handle problems were seldom catastrophic, they took time to fix, which could take time away from typing. By moving around the most commonly-used keys, people could type with a lot less fear of having to fix the hammers, and thus type more, longer, and faster. And, of course, the fact that all the keys needed to spell the word "typewriter" are on the upper row of keys and easy for anyone to find even if they've had no typing training, is not exactly a coincidence, either. :)
--Matthew
"If the lights of Broadway blind me, I won't mind..."
Maybe a little OT, but...
The article mentions at the end that most Model M's have a speaker hole in their chassis. Well, mine's still actually got the speaker built into it, and I've always wondered if there's a way to get that speaker to do anything. Anybody know?
I lost my cat. I had given up, figured him for dead or just unhappy with the suburban house cat routine. Weeks had gone by, then months.
One day, I decided I'd clean my keyboard. I had the lingerie bag, the dish washer, philips head screer driver, soap, Goo Gone and some ArmourAll.
While disassembling my keyboard, I noticed something familiar. Bits of cat hair started to appear. When fully disassembled, I had answered the question: what happened to my kitty?
I'll miss you, kitty.
We used to throw the old keyboards in a dishwasher when something sticky was spilled on 'em. Do they still do that?
taking apart a keyboard? My first time was back in junior high. An old PCjr keyboard. 3/12/93.
The detective in the short titled "A ditective's story has a typewriter that he uses to surf the web. I would really like to see if I couldn't build one. I grew up using an old non electronic typewriter, hated having to use whiteout or editing existing documents, but man that keyboard was sweet. At least I've never found a keyboard as bad as those on some electronic typewriters, but Dell's comes close.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
For anybody wanting a loud clicky action keyboard there's one available at Maplin suitably called the "CLICK Keyboard".
They're quite cheap and they have a great action. The first one I had met with an unfortunate end so I've now got two more because I hate typing on spongy keyboards.
BTW don't take the back off unless you want to fiddle with the hundreds of bits of copper that make the clicks.
Like, take this pizza key for example. Add on a beer key and I'll buy them in bulk.
Hey folks,
since we're talking about keyboards. I am surprised nobody mentioned programmable keyboards yet. Does anyone use/can recommend any good programmable keyboards these days?
The one I've used is Gateway's model... I think it's called AnyKey kb. Had four extra buttons in the top right, Program Macro(sticking a series of keystrokes into one key press), Remap(remapping a single key), and an extra column of function keys on the left hand side.
In any case, in my programming duties, I often find myself needing to do things like reformat 50 lines in an identical fashion. Like take out first four chars on a line, indent, put AAA there, go to next line.
So with this kb, you didn't have to use software, you just record a macro, use it 50 times, and you're done! Life saver for the fingers/wrists/carpal tunnel.
Any info appreciated!
"If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes..." - Roy Batty
I have a compact version of the IBM model M, it's the same kb, but without the numeric keypad. It does generate the keypad key sequences via a shift mode with keys on the main keyboard. Otherwise it's the same heavy monster as the model M, only slightly smaller. Mine didn't survive a lightning hit to my house that 86'ed my motherboard, network card, and a few other pci interface cards. Thankfully, I was able to find a replacement on ebay, since I couldn't do without that fine keyboard. (I also rebuilt the computer, the cpu, ram and hard disks DID survive).
I feel that the worlds most annoying thing they ever did to the Standard 101 was to place Sleep, Wake and Power in place of PrintScreen, ScrollLock and Pause/Break. It's so f*ing annoying. Ever tried to take a screenshot only to have the screen go blank? Or you're gaming and you need to take a leak right after that only successful move of 1001 moves and you reach for the pause only to have the system shut down? I got so pissed i yanked out the offending keys before condeming the thing and buying a new keyboard.
The guy who came up with that 'bright' idea should be castrated.
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
I can't stand new keyboards with the Bell-Dome technology. For this very reason, I've got a collection of Model-M's stashed away. These keyboards last forever. Right now (at work) I'm using the keyboard that came with my PS-2/286. At home I've got one from 1986 on my main computer.
For you hopeless, porn adicited, social drop outs, you can put these keyboards in the dishwasher.
this is my sig, there are many like it, but this one is mine.
This guy is a moron. He's just some guy that "remembers the glory days" of keyboards. I'll agree with him that there are new, cheap keyboards that are crap. But, notice that he's only comparing his old keyboard to these cheap ones because he can get a version of his old one from a flea market or garage sale for $5? If he were to compare them to something decent these days, he would find that there are plenty of good, new keyboards out there. You just have to be willing to fork over the cash.
:)
And another thing, concerning his deal about "but I have always been a believer that ergonomic keyboards not only hinder a typist, but also do not relieve any stress from typing. I never proved that of course, but I've always felt more 'natural' with standard keyboards." He's just absolutely wrong here (and, btw, you should go read the BBC article he points to - complete B.S.). The reason he feels more "natural" with standard keyboards is because that's all he's used. I guarantee you he has never used an ergonomic keyboard for more than a couple of minutes. If he would use one for any amount of time longer, he would come to appreciate their comfort. I, personally, made the switch to ergonomic keyboards about 2 years ago. I had a mild case of CTS, and was urged to do so by a doctor. It did take some getting used to, but now I'll never go back. It really is just so much more comfortable. Now "standard" keyboards feel small and cramped to me. Oh, and I haven't had a single CTS problem since.
By the way, the ergonomic keyboard I use currently is the Microsoft Natural (unfortunately, this link is to the "Natural Elite", which sucks with its small arrow keys). Yes, I agree that the stupid function buttons are useless (especially since I run Debian), but it's not like they get in my way. I actually do use the USB connectors on the back of the keyboard, as the back of my machine is kind of hard to get to. There are only two complaints I would make about it. First, the space bar has worn in a little, so if you're off-center by more than an inch and a half or so, it may not trigger. This is very seldomly a problem, however. Second is that the Function keys are a bit small. Not that function keys are usually a big part of my keyboard use, but it would be nice to have them be the same size as the rest of the letter keys.
I do wish that I had the money to try out one of those cool-looking Kinesis keyboards, though.
apt-get install -u acme
Or however you install it in your distro.
Applications > Desktop Preferences > Multimedia Keys
You can map things like screensaver, volume, and boring windowing commands (like shade, min, max, etc) to a single key. I use it for my laptop's diamond keys.
It's funny that I never see the Avant Stellar (http://www.cvtinc.com/) mentioned in these discussions about keyboards. It has a significant flaw (see below) but it's still my favorite. Great "clicky" feel, very firm, 100% programmable, macros, two sets of function keys (so you can reprogram the ones you don't normally use)... Lots of good stuff!
The problem is that their programming software doesn't work on NT/2000/XP, just 95/98/ME. It's not a problem for me because I use a KVM switch to connect six systems to the same keyboard/monitor/mouse, and one of my systems is Windows 98, so I just run the software on that system and switch to it when I need to change something.
I have it programmed so that some of the unused function keys have macros that tell the KVM to switch to different systems. Single-key switching from Windows 2000 to Linux...
Pah! Try this :
.
It doesn't get much more condensed than that.
[Geek typing at keyboard in front of computer. Keyboard makes excruciating clackety-clack-clackety-clack-clack sounds. Two coworkers come up behind the geek.]
Coworker #1: Christ, I can't believe your keyboard makes so much noise!
Geek: That's just because it's so rock solid.
Coworker #2: A rock solid keyboard? What the hell are you talking about?
Geek: This!
[The geek picks up the keyboard and cracks open the skull of both of his coworkers, who crash to the floor, dead. He glances, grinning manically at his bloodied keyboard.]
Geek: Thank God it's easy to clean!
[He kisses the keyboard.]
The QWERTY keyboard lay-out was originally designed to speed up typing by reducing clashes. The layout was not meant to inhibit the typists abilities, but to rearrange the mechanical layout of the typebars so that they were less likely to jam.
Relevant links:
Why QWERTY Was Invented
A Brief History of Typewriters
Carbons to Computers: Typewriters
Early Office Museum Typewriters
-r
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/04/057218 &mode=thread&tid=137
"... all windows versions greater than 3.11 are Dvorak compliant, and a simple setting can change the layout setting."
As a user that normally runs dvorak and occasionly windows I can assure you this isn't quite true.
I've used a dvorak mapping in windows 98, 2000 and XP and all have buggy implementations, though they are getting slightly better. The catch is that the remappable keys seems to have been a tacked on feature, some programs will work, some programs will work for a while and some seem to use direct keyboard access, ignoring any mapping.
For example I recall I was working with a notepad session and a command prompt. After a while the command prompt decided it would start running qwerty, so everytime I switched between the windows I had to pause to remind myself which keyboard mapping I was using. Games are also really bad, Half-life for example uses the dvorak mapping in the menu but uses stardard qwerty layout in the game. This makes key binding from the menu a wonderful activity.
I've been running dvorak for about 8 months now and its not about speed, its all in the name of comfort.
Durable and nice feedback on the keys.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I myself use a Microsoft Natural Elite keyboard.
Despite some reservations about the small size of the navigation keys on this keyboard (which I can understand some user's legitimate concerns), I love it because I can type all day and not have wrist pain afterward, mostly because you don't have to turn your wrists at an unnatural angle to type. The newer MS keyboards based on the Natural layout have a lot of keys are effectively overkill unless you are heavily into multimedia; the MS Natural Elite is all the keyboard I ever need.
was the Northgate Computer Systems Omnikey.
For those of us who learned to program before the
advent of the IBM PC, they have the "correct" layout
(the layout for which and with which vi was developed)
with the control key just to the left of the 'a', As God Intended)*
Buckling spring, Alps switches, removable keycaps, steel base,
fully programmable key assignments, DIP switches for common
configuration options. Indispensible and indestructible.
I have two, and they continue to work perfectly after
lo these many years, and there's a brisk market for them
on ebay (lots of old hackers treasure them).
But they're no longer made.
Fortunately, CTI makes a close copy. The Avant Stellar
is by all accounts superb, and bears the Tibor Polgar seal of approval.
Buy a couple while they're still made, and you're set for life.
The Customizer seems to be similar, but I have no experience with this keyboard.
* and if you're one of those people like me who has spent the
last twenty years cursing IBM for screwing up the layout of
ASCII keyboards for all time by fiddling with the the
One True Layout (with the control key to the left of the 'a'),
then you may be happy to know about the superb small program
ctrl2cap from Systems Internals, which makes the
usless never-to-be-sufficiently-damned caps lock key
into a control key. Tiny, slick, sophisticated, open source, free.
Check it out.
Wait a minute. Didn't I say that on the other side of the record? I'd better check
Back in the day (before "PC") we had REAL word processors. the MICOM P2000 came with a keyboard that had magnets in plungers, and solid-state pickups for each of the keys. A spring completed the key assembly. Very weighty keys, slowed down the typing nicely. Since switches, etc. were not involved, dishwashers were routinely employed to clean them. And these keyboards were servicable. And they weighed in at 15lbs (7 kilos). Which made them a VERY formidable weapon.
Before that I used an ASR-33. WHACK WHACK WHACK. Very satisfying. Built up my finger strength. Problem is, now I punch holes THROUGH these new "girly-man" keyboards. Such posers.
Seriously, the IBM BS keyboards are my favorites. A bit noisy, but the tactile feedback is worth it. My current keyboard (some "no-name" thing) has the nasty habit of "vibrating" at the bottom end of each keystroke. Feels nasty.
Ratboy.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
The BTC-5339 keyboard was the best I have ever used. It has soft foam inside the keys, while still being a mechanical keyboard, which makes for a soft, pleasing feedback. One of its nice features is the non-matrix based circuitry, meaning that you can hit any number of keys(useful for StepMania) at the same time.
The model M has harder keys and louder clicking noise, but has a great feel as well. Unfortunately, I have the small model without the numeric keypad, which means that one has to press Shift+Scroll lock to shift between a regular keyboard and numeric keypad input mode. Worse, it seems to default to numeric keypad mode(at least in Windows 2000 with the Japanese IME enabled), which is annoying. But the detachable cord is really cool.
http://blogs.lns.kicks-ass.net/moonjihad/
I found all four of mine (three at home, one at work) at local government surplus sales. These things last forever. One of my keyboards is 14 years old and still works perfectly. Government suplus sales are good place to find them as they don't throw away stuff that works if they can avoid it and all those office workers have moved over to those crappy Dell mushy keyboards.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
This is nice:
http://www.monu-cad.com/keyboard.htm
The best keyboard I ever owned, far and away, was the Cherry ANSI-standard keyboard I had on my Northwest Microcomputer Systems NMS85P circa mid-1980s. (The NMS85P was an excellent 8085-based S100 CP/M system that was favorably reviewed by Byte Magazine back in the day: my father owned 1/3 of NMS.)
This keyboard had a beautiful layout, and featured Hall-effect keyswitches: no electrical contact whatsover, quiet, and positive-action.
At one point, the bail on the space bar was broken in an accident, and my younger brother decided to fix it...with Super Glue. I came home to find the whole insides glued together. After 1/2 hour with acetone, I had cleaned out the glue---and the keyboard worked fine!
Boy do I miss that keyboard.
Something about stepping away for a few minutes...
is a keyboard that will cause hearing loss and is fully configurable. I want F1 to be del and 7 to be Q and . to be SHIFT and ....
-m
#
# Modus Ponens
#
I've been using the same IBM Model M keyboard for the last thriteen years. It has never failed me. Not once. My wife, on the other hand, has burned through seven keyboards in the last twelve years, including one very overpriced MS Natural. She has spent much more money on her cheap keybaords than I have spent on my single, still-working Model M. I am very confident that my Model M will still be working in another 13 years (even if I do end up having to get a PS/2 - USB converter to keep using it) and I really doubt if the keyboard she has now will still be working by the end of this year.
Sure, the Model M costs more, but you get what you pay for.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Of course, the side effect of that was sub-optimal typing speed and accuracy, but it certainly wasn't done just for that reason.
Come play at the only online poker room with a Mac-native client
On my desk at work right now I have a SBA 100A 1553A/B bus analyser, with a solid steel keyboard. It has burn marks on it from where it was left too close to a jet engine on the afterburner test rig, yet still works. I think it's actually older than I am!
Now, should any kind slashdotter have a manual for the aforementioned bus analyser, that would be most handy...
Beep beep.
It doesn't matter WHICH keyboard you have---the most important thing is to keep one which you are accustomed to. I've had a MS "Natural" keyboard for about eight years now (same keyboard) and I love it. It's not the newer version with the funkified ins/del/home/end key block or anything---just the curve.
As for the 'click' being important for typing---keyboards with the blisters aren't necessarily lacking in this respect. I never have to look at the screen to make sure that a button registered---only to make sure that I didn't make a typo in the course of my writing.
I think the real reason a lot of people prefer the older keyboard models is that for whatever reason they are more comfortable with the layout and pressure of the keys, probably due to familiarity rather than intrinsic virtues of the technology.
Has anyone used Scroll Lock in the last 10 years?
You all know the microsoft keyboard, don't you?
e .j pg
http://users.auth.gr/~salaxi/various/jpg/ctrald
i do have some IBM Ms in my garage, need ot find the connector for em...
My favorite keyboards are the Keytronic ones. I find the feel compareable to the IBM keyboards. And they don't make that clicky noise. There a few thing I realy like about them.
1. Durability. The one I have at home has survived 6 years of mistreatment and neglect.
2. Keyspacing. Many of the cheaper keybords seem to be slightly smaller and it's really annoying.
3. Feel. The keys don't wobble like a Microsoft keyboard. And the action seems to be excellent.
The main problem, I have with them is that thier website doesn't list any ergonomic keyboards. And I may want to get one of those eventually.
I never thought of that, rearraging the keys, that sounds like a good idea, I think I'll try it. Thankx. Mod up the parent "Re: ..."
Accentuate the positive, don't waste your mod points on the negative.
How incomplete would all these comments be without mentioning modelm.org, probably the uber-fansite about the favorite keyboard. The mboard that pimps, indeed.
Well, the Kinesis keyboards are fully programable/remapable. Very comfortable too.
I like, but they are expensive.
'Sensible' is a curse word.
I've read about these in ESR's _The New Hacker's Dictionary_, and have been trying to find more information about them but to no avail. Has anybody ever seen or used one, or have pointers to information (ahem, more links to The Jargon File need not apply)? Pictures would be great. Thanks!
Last Minute Google Search!
Search for "LISP Machine" turns up a few pages, such as this one, with information on the Symbolics machine, and has a picture of the keyboard, complete with the all-important control/super/hyper/meta keys. Still interested in more info on the MIT LISP machine, though!
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
Oh wait, the would entail people reading the article...
I've been seeing more and more "innovation" in the arena of keyboards, which is mostly complete crap. I like the concept of the apple keyboard that lights up briefly when & where you hit a key, but for the most part its all a waste of money. About 6 or 7 years ago, Gateway 2000 stopped carrying the 124 key AnyKey keyboard, made by maxi-switch. Now this is a mean keyboard. The thing has 4MB of ram on it for storing key sequences, and you can reprogram the keyboard itself, so if you want it to be a dvorak, for instance, you can make the change, and it will carry over with you when you take that keyboard to another computer, regardless of OS or current system state. Add to that the 8-way directional cursor keys, a second asterix key, a second spacebar (in the middle of the cursor keys), and a second set of function keys (great place to store key sequences), and you've got a hell of a keyboard. Not to mention that it's just got that right feel and weight to it. And it's virtually indestructible.
-- My childhood bathtoys were Toaster and Hairdryer
Sounds like a problem that should be solved through software, not hardware. Not everyone wants a "record macro" button on their keyboard (or, for that matter, a volume control, a "connect to the internet" button, or a "go shopping" button, to name other common and superfluous keys.)
In other words, these things are about as close to the original IBM keyboards as you can get. I've owned mine for three years now and I love it.
-R
Is Timothy 12 years old? Does he think computers began with the PS/2? What kind of misleading subject line is that supposed to be? An article comparing a PS/2 keyboard to a Active Response membrane keyboard does not qualify as a "history of the keyboard".
A quick websearch gives numerous better accounts of 1981-present computer keyboards.
For me personally, a "real" keyboard is a circa 1979 Cherry keyboard, because they are the first ones to make relatively inexpensive ($200) super-well-built keyboards. They used individual, replaceable switches for each key. They were available with an RS232 or parallel interface for hooking to a real computer.
I even used Univac keyboards where a large circuit board was packed with 1n914 diodes for encoding the keys. Keyboards with real metal coiled springs, not plastic leaf springs.
-a.e.mossberg
Zero-feedback keyboards... Once the skill is learned, it is so much easier on the hands. I will be the first to say it is a pain in the neck to learn typing on a flat touchpad, but it is also worth it.
This is the other end of the spectrum from the M's. I wouldn't go after ZF typing if this keyboard didn't offer so many benefits.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi omnem pecuniam tuam mihi dabis, ad tuum caput saxum immane mittam.
Which is BS, by the way. It wasn't to avoid jamming the keys by slowing the typist down, but by making sure the commonly-used key levers weren't close enough to each other to jam. And I think that the dvorak layout was designed to put the most commonly-used keys right under the fingertips, not just within reach of the "strongest fingers." Geez, like you need really STRONG fingers to type faster.
I have no problem with talking all you like about the differences between keyboards and why you prefer one over the other. Reminiscing is fun sometimes. But don't tout it as a "condensed history of the keyboard." Just call it "One guy's ideas about keyboards."
Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
It's impossible to find a zero-keyclick, zero-tactile-feedback keyboard any more.
Is Gateway still making the AnyKey line?
I know it's impossible to get a DEC LK40X any more, much less interface it to a PS2 or USB connector...
I've been nothing but pissed at logitech lately for their damned cursed POS keyboards.
WTF is up with this FLOCK bullshit? The F-Keys should be the DEFAULT not those poo poo frilly "email" etc functions. When I turn on the computer and I hit F2, I expect it to trigger the damn BIOS setup like the screen says. I shouldn't have to FLOCK myself and then press F2. It's screwed up. I boycott Logitech for this reason. I won't buy any of their $hit.
There. I said it. I feel better.
The Smartboard keyboard from DataDesk looks interesting. It sortof uses a grid, but it is in a fan pattern. It accomplishes this by making the keys different sizes. Keys further up the keyboard are larger.
I can't comment on how well this works, but intuitively, it seems like it might be better (for me, a MS Natural user).
I have an Avant Stellar, and I'm very pleased with it. It's got
;; Sorry about the lack of decent indentation; I had to work ;; around the lameness filter.
the good kind of keys (not the membrane ones), and it's fully
programmable, fully remappable. And if you don't want to remap
the three or four keys used for remapping (right ctrl, non-keypad
uparrow, and I forget which other ones) you can remap the keys on
the fly without any special software (read: OS is irrelevant).
Though, since I need to remap right ctrl, I have to use the
(Win32-based) remapping software whenever I want to change the
layout. Fortunately, I don't change the layout very often.
Yeah, it does macros and junk too.
> In any case, in my programming duties, I often find myself needing
> to do things like reformat 50 lines in an identical fashion.
Any remotely decent text editor can do this, no problem. But as
long as what you have to do each time consists of identical
keystrokes you could also achieve it with this keyboard, yes.
Personally, I find that a lot of the repetitive editing I have
to do doesn't consist of identical keystrokes each iteration, so
I use Emacs lisp quite a bit. Sometimes I find myself doing the
same thing often enough that I write a re-usable function, like
this one...
(defun dehyphenate-interactively ()
"Walk through the current buffer from point to point-max looking for
hyphens on the end of lines and asking the user whether to dehyphenate each."
(interactive) (save-excursion (while (re-search-forward "- *$" (point-max) t)
(let ((hyphenated-word (concat (buffer-substring (save-excursion (re-search-backward " ") (forward-char 1) (point)) (save-excursion (re-search-backward " ") (end-of-line 1) (point))) (buffer-substring (point) (save-excursion (re-search-forward " ") (backward-char 1) (point))))))
(if (y-or-n-p (concat "Dehyphenate " hyphenated-word " ?"))
(progn (while (save-excursion (backward-char 1) (looking-at "[- \t]")) (backward-delete-char 1)) (while (looking-at "[- \t\n]") (delete-char 1)))
(forward-char 1))))))
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Dvorak users consistently report less effort in typing and that it just "feels" better, but they must be wrong since QWERTY is better. QED. Even though the fastest typer uses dvorak and other dvorak typers cleaned house in competitions, these results are all faked or "suspect". Even though all reason points to markets acheiving local maxima, just like theory says they should, Liebo insists that if one just defines the value of technology based on what the market has chosen then it proves that the market always right.
And oh yeah, therefore Microsoft never had an OS monopoly.
Check out this site: http://pckeyboard.com. They were featured in an MSNBC.com article. These folks were spun off from Lexmark a while back and still make the old keyboards (and can repair them too). You can also get one with a pencil eraser mouse built in!
"It's a dog eat dog world out there, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear."- Norm (from Cheers)
Macros should be done in software, but hardware remapping is very
useful. This allows you to change the physical layout of the keys,
and the keyboard keeps that new layout for all software (including
if you change OSes, use the keyboard with another computer, whatever).
Good for scenerios where what you really want is to have certain keys
just be in different places.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
But Dell used to ship a very nice keyboard with some of their servers. Enormous, heavy thing which was really loud and clicky. I swear I got an extra 5 wpm out of that thing. Gorgeous.
Not MY old keyboard. That thing was solid, and heavy enough to drive nails with, so it would go stright to the bottom. But I'll tell you what... When plate tectonics brought it back up in, oh, 300 million years, once future archeologists excavated it from the surrounding stone, it would work as well as today.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
I just filed a patent on a keyboard for left handers. Called the YTREWQ (why-truke).
It's got strange keys like HEX, V COR/AX DUP, LCA, ALPHA, REPEAT, CHAR, BYPASS/PROG, CMND/REL and FIELD
It was made by Cortron, but has no identifying marks on the outside.
If you want it, pay the shipping and it's yours!
Those original PC keyboards were sturdy, but not unbreakable, as I have reason to know. I was one of the programmers working under contract on the original then-top-secret IBM-PC project, and I knocked one of the keyboards off a desktop, and managed to damage the internal electronics so badly that a whole row of keys no longer worked.
:)
I suspect that I'm probably the first person in the world to break a PC keyboard. It's not much of a claim to fame, but it's better than nothing.
I agree with your sentiment on those useless volume control-multimedia keys. What a waste of kb space.
However, when it comes to recording short macros, I prefer mine completely on the kb-side.
1) They're faster
2) OS-independent
3) Easier to record
4) Sometimes applications read keystrokes "more directly" than the macro-recorder/playback software. Can't explain it better than that, except that the software solutions don't always work in all the apps.
"If you could only see what I've seen with your eyes..." - Roy Batty
Yup, I drove past them everyday to my job just down the frontage road from 'em. I guess that's why I bought one. I associated PC's with Northgate.
386/20 with 2M RAM and a 40M HD that lasted me six years (of course by then it had an 80387, 8M RAM and an additional 170M HD). The sales guy offered to upgrade me to a 100M drive for $300 more.
"No way. I'll never use all of that..."
Go figure.
Chris
So Buddha walks into a pizza parlor and says: "Hey, make me one with everything."
Once had a keyboard with a minor defect. The '6' key (the one above the letters, not the keypad one) felt normal, but would usually spit out "666" each time it was hit. All the other keys were fine. Got pretty annoying typing "6^H^H" to get a 6. I finally donated it to a Christian charity.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
I love my MS Natural keyboard for the fact that my wrists don't hurt nearly as much.
But I really love the old keyboards with their feel. I really wish someone would make a combo one - old technology meets new design.
I type this message on IBM FRU NUMBER 1392090 keyboard serial number 7156879, DOM 11-19-1991. This is the newest keyboard I possess. These old IBM keyboards, as well as Northgates, are modular, so they work with AT and PS/2 with the proper modular cord. They will essentially last an indefinite period of time, and they can usually still be found in dusty boxes at the back of old warehouses or closets in server rooms. Often they are a bit dirty and require cleaning, but the method of construction makes them very resilient.
:o).
The best part is, they are 1000 times nicer to type on than anything made today, and every PC groks them. No 'windows' keys, 'e-mail' keys, or any other nonsense, just 12 function keys, a nice numeric keypad, a T and editing keygroup, plain old PC103
I guess us old farts know what we like.
I used to have problems with my hands hurting after coding all night (for my own fun) with keyboards of the normal type including the IBM model M (I have 3 anyone want one). My outfingers joints would ache, and my hands hurt from twisting my hand into contortions attempting to press all of the special keys which get used quite often while programming.
Yeah, I got meself one of thoes Mtype keyboards off ebay -- and while I love the tactile click -- it really starts to kill my fingers and arms to the point it would actually get numb. So I got rid of it(not worth getting carpal syn.) and went back to the soft and sleek logitech keyboards.
The problem is, not everyone has problems with BS keyboards -- and they're lucky bastards if I might say. Why does it hurt? Each keypress requires a force, and then pushes a force backup. That tactile sensensation has to be absorbed by some joint, which unfortunately my fingers cannot handle.
I'm really asking for a slashdotting, but anyway:
This is a keyboard used by telephone information operators in NYC. It's made of steel, letters in ALPHABETICAL order (vowels in gray), and there are buttons on the side for each borough!
-- Real Stupidity is the Artificial Intelligence of the 21st century
Speaking of keyboards what is the blank key next to the Help button on a sun keyboard for? Does anyone here know. I have been wondering this and figured I would throw it in.
SuDZ
In the 1980s my dad worked as a programmer for a german computer manufacturer, Mannesmann Kienzle GmbH. They made proprietary non-PC terminals with super ergonomics (they had stuff like 100Hz refresh rates on hi-rez eye-friendly paperwhite terminals years before anything like it appeared in the PC world.)
The keyboards they made were particularly cool: The circuit board was sealed and coated and had holes for each key. The circuitry on the board formed spiral coils around each hole, and the key presses sent small rubber-cushioned magnet rods moving through the holes, causing magnetic induction to register the keypresses. No mechanical switches, no exposed contact surfaces. Great reliability, and easy maintenance.
The demos at the shows had the operator flooding the unit with lukewarm coffee while the operator kept on typing (slosh, slosh, slosh!) Cleaning the keyboard required just flushing it with water.
Nowadays I use an old-skool IBM model "M" keyboard scavenged on an auction for a buck or two. I love it very much! I feel my typematic rate going through the roof and I make very few typos while using it. My Dell laptop has a PS/2 port, so I can use it on that when at my desk, but my Compaq unfortunately has only USB. How do you connect a PS/2 keyboard to a USB-only machine?
I thought of a great witty reply, but its just not my day :(
"Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING."
To be even more ridiculous, the monitor is a HITACHI 17 inch from 1992, while the much newer Viewsonic 17GS sits behind me as an unused spare waiting for the next new employee (that's if they don't get the good one on the sparc 20).
Yeah... That was about the same time that George Washington chopped down his father's cherry tree, right?...
The idea that a keyboard would be designed to slow you down makes no sense. First of all, you don't have to be slowed down to prevent keys from colliding, you would rather, want to evenly distribute the keys across the keyboard... In other words, the nearer two keys are to each other, the more chance that they will stick together. The best thing to do would be to evenly distribute the keys that would commonly be hit in sequence, to be as far apart as possible.
Also, to futher contradict himself, a few lines later he writes:
That's right... Sholes did one freakin' horrible job if he was trying to make his keyboard ineffecient, because nobody can type +100WPM on an alphabetical keyboard, yet they can on QWERY. And, although people are able to type faster on Dvorak keyboards, the gap between QWERTY keyboardists and Dvorak keyboardists is NOT all that large... If QWERTY was really designed to make typing difficult, then comparing it to a keyboard that is designed to be easy should yeild a difference in typing speed of more than an order of magnitude.
It's all too obvious that this "QWERTY: Designed for in-effenciency" thing is nothing more than an urban legend, but I would like to know if somebody out there has some real info. As in facts, such as first-hand accounts from Sholes or anyone that know him directly... That I might believe. I admit I don't know what the true story is, but I'm sure nobody that knows the facts would say it was designed to be hard to use.
Also, I'd like to say that everyone on the planet should try a Dvorak keyboard... They are far better. But more than that, you should check out the Typematrix... It's really designed the opposite of every other keyboard around, and it's much better in ways you wouldn't think of... For instance, it is instantly relaxing when you put your fingers on the keys, which are not inclined like every other keyboard, but declining.
And just to prevent getting accused of astroturfing, I have no connection with the company, other than having been a customer... The only reason I'm a customer is because I was looking for a Dvorak keyboard (I'd always heard good things and was interested in trying one finally) and found their site, only to be immeditately interested by the disign of the keyboard. Even if you still type QWERTY, it will be a much more comfortable keyboard than anything else.
You can see the QWERTY one a typmatrix.com , and the Dvorak one at dvortyboards.com/typematrix.html
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
boy I wish thouse keyboards would work on my pc built like a tank. 24 function keys, etc. actuly the keyboard was for the terminal connected through twinax but I diegress so big a keyboard you could almost surf with it :) by the way I have an 9402 (48 bit) the dedicated
service tools menu password is 22222222 (default)
but the main password i cant get past I realy
have no clue on this machine but I like the
keyboard
The letters in typewriter are all in the top row so that the Remington salemen could show the client how fast the typewriter was by typing "typewriter" quickly.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
F2 is a much faster rename than dragging your butt through a context menu.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I'm tapping this out on a telegraph key
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
That's where hexadecimal came from.
I find the 45-degree guardian angels to be gentler and more helpful than the 60-degree angels.
not a bad name, but for a century or so, they have been called typebars by typewriter technicians.
They have been called typebars for over a century. Nevertheless, that's a sensible name for them.
...with a numeric-IP link, a few posts before this.
They're not called "hammers", they're called "typebars".
They're typebars.