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Review of Das Keyboard
First of all let me say that it sounds great. There's something really satisfying about the thunderous racket created by a nice tactile keyboard. The buttons move smoothly and lightly. As I type these words I find myself typing very fast. Ironically, I have to turn up my speakers just to listen clearly to the NPR program quietly playing... and this leads me to my first point. There are no volume control keys. So I have to navigate through various menus to put the volume control widget back on my toolbar. I haven't needed it for years, but this keyboard has none of the bloated keys that over populate a modern keyboard. Save for the 2 keys added for windows 95, this is practically the same layout as the first keyboard I called my own in the 80s. The keyboard is also available without any markings on the key- although my keyboard had them.
Then I hear the ping that tells me that I have mail so I apple-tab to go to my Mail program and then... crap. Did I mention that this is a windows keyboard? The alt key and the windows key are obnoxiously transposed, requiring me to rewire my brain to get to the program I need. It's not the end of the world- and of course it only matters if you are using a Mac. But since I switch daily from the laptop keyboard to a desktop keyboard, I suspect that I would slowly go mad as I was never able to reliably remember which key was alt and which key was apple. To say nothing of this meaningless preferences button which does nothing. Of course the OSX preferences panels contain an option to remap these keys, but I'd have to reset it every time I went home. And I just don't like the idea of monkeying around with this sort of thing twice a day.
So I decide that just for now I will use my mouse to navigate from app to app. This makes my heart cry a little bit- I don't much care for my mouse. He sits there lonely, the tool of last resort as I instead opt to use ridiculous keybindings requiring 7 fingers of syncronized chording. It only inflames my carpal tunnel, but I don't have to move my arm. But times of desperation call for us to rise up to the challenges that come before us.
Now Das Keyboard has the USB ports on the right hand side. I've plugged in 2 devices: the first is a little spinner wheel that I use for editing video, and the other is a little RF broadcaster for a wireless Logitech mouse. And like most of you, I'm right handed. So as I fling my mouse around, I find myself constantly bumping into the 2 giant USB plugs that now overlap my mousepad. My old keyboard had the mouse ports at the top and I never had this problem.
The toggle lights are completely invisible unless on, hidden cleanly within the black plastic surface. The num lock key doesn't seem to do anything, although I assume that's a mac thing. And scroll lock... well now seriously, who among us relies on that in any serious way? Maybe I should just remap those keys, along with the windows 'preferences' key to be the volume up, down, and mute key I'm missing.
But it's black. It's sexy. It's loud. It feels good to type on it. Which takes me to the big question: is this really worth shelling out $130 plus shipping for? For me the answer is a no. It feels great to type, but the lack of volume controls, the mac keys, and most of all, the irritating position of the USB ports make it an inferior keyboard in all practical ways except for the simple act of typing. But if you are a left handed windows user, you might feel differently. As for me, I'm going to have to keep searching for my perfect keyboard. This one is close, but it's just not it.
It's called a Model M. Yeah, I have one and my wife hates it because it is indeed very noisy... (The keyboard, not the wife.)
Seriously... I would pay a lot of money for this... Belkin, Microsoft, Logitech? ANYONE? PLEASE... make it. I can't be alone in wanting one.
Not only does it have the best spring action on the key, but it has the heft to kill a man.
Just trust me on that last bit.
Before you say a keyboard has great tactile feedback try the Kinesis Freestyle. But don't take my word for it: http://robertwrose.com/2008/06/kinesis-freestyle-is-best-keyboard-ive.html
I just might suggest shaving your palms and getting one of those covers you could just wipe clean after all the abuse.
Why don't they sell keyboards without these stupid windows-keys? I keep my old IBMish clone keyboard in top shape just so I don't have to endure getting used to such a gap in-between of Ctrl and Alt, and a much shorter space. I have no use for these additional keys, and I bet I'm not the only guy around who despises them. Why aren't old-style keyboards on the market? That's what I want to know.
(And yes, I realize this is probably a years-old question)
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams [...]."
Preorder is $99, full price $129. A new in the box late 90s Model M can be had for $70 even with the USB adapter it would not break $80. Plus you get a durable piece of computing history, and no god forsaken windows keys.
Apart from the fact it's obviously better for Mac users anyway since it *has* the Apple key and option key in the right place, it also has the extended F keys, the volume and the optical eject keys too.
In addition, it's also really nice to type on and perfect USB-hub placement.
The only caveats are that a) it's no longer made since they went to the casio-inspired ones of late and b) there isn't a power button on them like the old iMac keyboard (and the follow on almost identical white-iMac keyboard that preceded the Pro keyboard).
That said, I still like the g3 iMac and the white iMac keyboards just as much, they're just harder to find. Virtually identical keys as well, nice and chunky.
I'm even partial to the new calculator style ones. Thought I'd hate them but since I got used to my Macbook's internal keyboard I find I quite like them. Easier on the wrists and hands.
The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
Wireless, cheap, lightweight, small footprint, no fancy features, has worked fine for over half a decade. Cost: At most one tenth the price of "Das Keyboard".
The only wish would be easier cleaning, the rest is just great.
...a keyboard that has keys that are displays?
When remapping characters to keys the display should change accordingly.
Preferably with a nixe tube kind of look.
Please someone tell me there is something like this.
What I do for a living: Build a GPS mobile game
You don't have to pay $130+shipping for Das Keyboard. You can get it from thinkgeek.com for $80+shipping. It's out of stock right now but is estimated to be back in stock in 1-3 weeks. This is the model with no markings on the keys. I've had mine for about five months, and I love it. It's helped me improve my touch-typing, it has great tactile feedback, and the sound of those keys clicking is very nice. Sure, it's not the Model M, and it doesn't have multimedia keys, but if you use Windows or Linux (can't speak for the Mac, don't have one), it's a very nice keyboard.
After I first started using ergonomic split-key keyboards over a decade ago, I can't go back to the old-style "bust your wrists" keyboard. After 5 min of typing, my wrists hurt.
So, no, Das Keyboard is NOT the best keyboard ever made. Microsoft's Natural Ergonomic 4000 is still the best IMNSHO.
I've heard if your old keyboard gets too crusty you can throw it in the dishwasher. Anybody try it?
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
It has a mini enter key - yuck! Hate these types.
And no advanced keys = DOS 6.22 is still out there for if you "prefer" using it?! Good key feel is a plus though, I will like that. But for $100+ there are better options.
The OS X keyboard preferences are for a specific keyboard, NOT every keyboard. You can swap the das keyboard alt/windows keys without affecting the laptop keyboard layout.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
...you get Das Boot.
As a Das Keyboard user that -doesn't- use a Mac, I think it is wonderful. If you're a keyboard enthusiast (which is whom I would have expected to review A KEYBOARD), I highly recommend giving one a shot.
Each key is individually weighted, which gives it a really fresh feeling, and the keys feel light but still click loudly. In my opinion, there's really three top-tier keyboards out there for awesome tactile feedback: the M series keyboard (for people that learned on typewriters, not me), this keyboard and its mechanical switches, and those people out there that refuse to use anything but an SGI keyboard, even though their SGI workstation has been unused for years (some of my coworkers).
This guy just cares about the placement of the Command key (which is settable in the Options anyway), and the "extra" keys. If you're like that, this keyboard is not for you.
DrPascal: Not the language, the mathematician.
I only use ergonomic keyboards, both at home and at work, and have done so for years. Mostly I used Microsoft Natural, but for a while at work I was using a CompUSA-branded split ergo keyboard. It was cheaper, but CompUSA no longer exists, so oh well. In any event, no matter how hard it proclaims itself "best. . . Period," I have zero interest until there's an ergonomic version. I guess my wrists and I will have to settle for second best.
I really wish that one keyboard vendor would take a stand, and move that CapsLock key to a more remote part of the keyboard. It is rarely used, and often accidentally hit.
Looks cool and all, but do they make a version with the Ctrl and Caps Lock keys interchanged?
My favourite keyboard was bottom of the line Logitech wireless. Unfortunately I was unable to recover from the blue vodka cruiser incident. Right now I have a Logitech Access keyboard. It's fairly quiet, the keys are good enough, and it has all those fancy buttons. After 3 years of service I'm almost ready for a new one. I bought my daughter a Saitek. It's a full keyboard with the feel of a laptop keyboard. It has an odd feel at first but it's very comfortable and quiet to type on. It's also a very vibrant pink.
$130 for a keyboard? Maybe if I'm actually typing all day long.
New! Device Legs: These legs will help your poor OEM installed product escape any hamfistedness it may encounter. Ava
We're going to type out the code now and see if we can get our rear ends out of the sand. If we make it to the release, things could still get pretty rough. Traffic's heavy up there. And we have to pray the server starts, so we can get out of this mess. The condition the network is in, we have got to head straight for */ La Rochelle */. If we make it... it's half a bottle of beer for each! There is one thing on our side; they won't be expecting us. Well men, all set?
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
I have one of them and they are just a trusty old KT-2001 "ergoforce" keyboard sprayed black, it's sticker on the bottom and usb-id both confirm that.
While KT-2001 is quite excellent keyboard, the das keyboard is just plain overprized, also it comes in only the us layout.
Pity that I only have a tech demo kt-2001 as an alternative, as it's candy colour-coded spring stiffnesses are quite ugly, but atleast it has scandinavian layout.
I have a Microsoft Internet Keyboard, and I love it. Nice key feel despite being a membrane keyboard, good size, enough extra keys to be useful without being silly, it's dirt cheap, it's robust, and it has one extra incredibly handy facility --- it's designed for maintenance.
If you turn it over and undo four screws, the entire top shell lifts off the part with the electronics in it, with the keys clipped into it. As the top shell is curved and extends down to table level at the front, this means that you've removed all the plastic that gets exposed to finger touch. Now all you need to do is to unclip the keys from the shell (and each one is in a little bucket that stops coffee and crumbs getting into the rubber membrane), and put keys and shell into the dishwasher. Once done, clip the keys back on, screw the shell back down to the works of the keyboard, and you have a bright, shiny new clean keyboard. And you didn't even have to unplug it.
Any keyboard without a two-line return key automatically fails the 'best keyboard in the world' test.
I have no
For only $130 you too can have a keyboard with no labels on the keys! This is perfect for learning how to type!!
Because these days, electrical tape is bound to set you back a hefty sum.
CmdrTaco, what version of OS X are you running? I'm not sure about earlier versions, but if you're running Leopard, you certainly have the option to reassign the modifier keys for different keyboards. That way, the modifiers would remain the same on your laptop keyboard, and be remapped to their respective positions on the DasKeyboard.
Just take a look at this screenshot.
I do this with my Saitek Eclipse keyboard and my MacBook Pro, and the setup works pretty well so far. I have Alt remapped to command, and the Windows key remapped to option, so everything is essentially in the same place.
Now for the menu select key on the right side, that causes a slight problem...
So I have to navigate through various menus to put the volume control widget back on my toolbar
What a waste of time, really.
No Dvorak version?
QWERTY is for losers!
I Heart Sorting Networks
Unicomp still makes the old-fashioned keyboards ... unfortunately, looking at their lists, most of the 101 and 102 key ones are PS2 or AT, not USB. They have a 'linux' model, but from the description I'm not sure if any of them are available as USB:
http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/keyboards.html
(and if you're scared of the springs -- they have quiet keyboards, too)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
They didn't send you the ultimate (blank) version to demo? They may as well have put training wheels on it, sending the training-bra version to slashdot... "waah, I need to see letters on my keys!"
stuff |
...I find no irony in your incorrect use of "ironically" since I completely expect Slashdot editors to not know the meaning of irony.
Oh and my CAPTCHA is "ignorant" - which is either ironic or not ironic, depending on your interpretation.
And is it ironic that no one is going to read this post? I'm not sure.
Is it that hard to hit Alt-Tab? Works in Windows and Mac.
Consumers expecting:
1. volume controls,
2. mac keys...
3. position of the USB ports...
This isn't the keyboard for you. Taco and users like him just aren't the target audience.
It IS the keyboard for you IF:
1. you like the feel of the old-style key strike.
2. Don't use/need multimedia keys
3. Don't hang usb peripherals off your keyboard
4. Windows/Linux/BSD user
That's quite a few users, Taco excluded.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
The keyboards that come free with any Dell (something like $10 if you order them separately) are the best I've ever used. They aren't super noisy, yet have great key response. They have zero unnecessary keys, which means they're a lot smaller and fit easily into keyboard trays. They are very sturdily-built; the last one I had lasted 6 years, and the only reason I replaced it was that they released a newer model that even more compact.
I recently managed to get several of them, which I'm now keeping in storage in case Dell ever decides to phase them out for any reason. They're free, and they're great.
Toshiba PX1252S-1DAC is so far the best membrane keyboard that i've ever owned, better than Logitech and Microsoft. I've tried Model M but i think it's overkill for me.
The scroll lock is VERY useful to people who use a KVM switch. And that key still performs its designated function in Excel. Doesn't appear to do much in Open Office spreadsheet under Linux, though.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
for the small desktop (Think Sam Lowry's sliding desk in Brazil). So I can put the mousepad where the numeric keypad is supposed to be. I think HappyHacker has them, the high keys but without the Model M feel; I wish the keys were more low profile and ergonomic.
e17 let me remap PrintSc and ScrollLock to be volume up/down; they're adjacent to each other. The Pause key brings down an xterm Quake-console-style (yeahconsole to be specific, like tilda or YaKuake).
and might i add, yeah sure remap the Windows key. I'd rather ditch CapsLock. Was fine in my COBOL days. And it was shiftlock, so either shift key would release that lock on my portable typewriter. If they had CapsLock and shift keys working like this it would be alright. Dang just get off my lawn you kids...
But what about you heavy coders out there, won't DasKeyboard mess you up when it comes to braces, brackets, parentheses, underscores, and whatnot?
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
My KVM switch uses Scroll Lock as the trigger key. People do use it for things, even if it's only rarely to freeze a scrolling buffer.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
Best keyboard ever made if you can live without a numpad.
ins/del/pgup/pgdn etc keys on the left side of keyboards more often? I have a "Goldtouch" ergonomic keyboard with those extra keys on the left, the 2 windows keys are in the top right corner and the thing has a ball joint between the two halves to allow you to get the best angle for your wrists, not just the fixed angle that MS specifies. The two things it gives up are a dedicated numeric keypad and and dedicated F11/F12 keys (available through a Fn lock, like laptops.) The cursor keys are on the right, southeast of ctrl, shift and enter. The extra keys on the left rather than right are so that you can select stuff with your right hand with the mouse, then act on it with your left. Worked well, until I decided I'd worn my right hand out so much that now I have a trackpad I use with my left hand. The keys on the Goldtouch are loud and clicky and IMHO pretty nice to type on.
Since this Das Keyboard doesn't have one, and I HATE mousing ( lose the home-keys? -shudder- WHY? )
is there a right-between-the-thumbs trackball that WORKS, so I can have my no-mousing-computering?
I hopes so!
the ACTUAL best keyboard in the world.
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/classic.htm
The reviewer noted that he could type quickly on the Das Keyboard, but how about accurately? And how do his speed and accuracy compare to a keyboard he uses more regularly? I'd say from personal experience that I tend to type more accurately on mechanical keyboards (and thus feel free to speed up), but this is a review -- I'd like it to be thorough enough that it includes quantifiable information in this regard, such as typing test results. Accuracy is an important factor when you're actually shelling out for a keyboard on which to type.
98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smoke, and have sex. Put this in your sig if you like bagels.
I believe I'll stick with my Happy Hacking Lites... All that extra bulk on the right side of a 104 keyboard has the effect of either pushing the main part of the keyboard to the left (increasing wrist strain) or pushing the mouse further to the right (real fun to reach for it, you know...)
I wouldn't mind having some of those keys back, but only if I could put them on the left. Presently for Blender I use an external USB numeric keypad which I keep to the left of my keyboard... not too shabby.
Bow-ties are cool.
[s]o I apple-tab to go to my Mail program and then... crap. Did I mention that this is a windows keyboard?
So, like OS X lets you change the key bindings. Go in your settings, change the cmd key to to alt, change the alt key to cmd, whatever. It is not hard. There is also a free little app out there to do it for you, but I have found I never needed it on my iMac. I use an MS Win keyboard because I hate the keyboard and mouse that came with my iMac. The keyboard keys feel too close and the keyboard feels too small for my hands. The "mighty" mouse is so small it is perfect for my kids, but in my hands feel like a laptop mouse. I am not some 6' 11" giant or something.
Anyway, just change your OS X keyboard settings to change what the keys do and enjoy.
General, you are listening to a machine! Do the world a favor and don't act like one.
You used a standard PC peripheral with a Mac, and you're surprised that they keys aren't the same as a Mac keyboard? Brilliant!
The selling points of Das Keyboard are its differences from OTHER STANDARD KEYBOARDS. It has nothing to do with your Mac.
I always mod up spelling trolls.
I saw this: http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus-tactus/
Man wird am besten für seine Tugenden bestraft.
What brand of refrigerator was Harrison Ford Product Placing for such contingencies?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Still -- several years after they stopped making them.
Seriously, if someone could point me to a better keyboard that's under 4000 USD, I'd pay a significant finder's fee. Until you've used a really good keyboard you don't appreciate just how much they're worth ...
(It puzzles me how people who work with computers all day seldom think to try anything beyond a $20 keyboard.)
In my opinion, Apple's new aluminum keyboards (especially the wired ones) are awesome. Great to type on, and they have a nice low profile. One USB port on each side.
I've already got multiple monitors. What I've been thinking of doing was getting a stand-up rig in place with tiered keyboards, the way rock band keyboardists do it on stage. Then I can be typing on the upper keyboard, then switch to the lower one a few lines, then back up to the top. Of course, they'd all be plugged into the same machine so there's no real need to switch keyboards but it would look great so that's the important thing.
(Wait, did I just say that? I know I shouldn't be sitting so close to Marketing, I'm picking up second-hand stupid).
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Nice attitude, taco.
You mean, of course, except for the way that Leopard remembers your keyboard mappings on a keyboard-by-keyboard basis, right?
I know this is /., and you're not supposed to read the articles. But, c'mon, at least WRITE them!
http://thenewbig.com/2007/11/01/per-keyboard-layouts-in-leopard/
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Z-board anyone? its better for gaming too. -USB ports -replaceable keyboard -all the "hotkeys" i'm happy with mine. but it doesnt have all these fancy pants lights.
So does this mean you should turn around the keyboard to prevent the air bubble from ruining your chugging challenge?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Another poster above did
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
... an inferior keyboard in all practical ways except for the simple act of typing...
Wow, isn't that what *gulp* keyboards are supposed to be good for?
Don't mind me, I use a $2 keyboard that does that pretty good. I don't use those fancy volume control keys, nor plug anything into it, the CPU have frontal USB ports for that matter.
DON'T PANIC.
Meh for that price Ill stick with my 150$ dinovo edge. Wireless,light, includes a small touch pad, and has a rechargeable battery that lasts up to 3 months.
So after the long and painful voyage it gets bombed by the allies, right?
Honest question - I've been behind computers since, oh, age 8. So I'm well over 20 years of computer use now, but let's say well over 10 of which were in a reasonably matured body.
So I grab a standard 10x keyboard, I sit down about a foot away from it.
1. arms and hands down along body
2. bring lower arms up. You'll look stupid at this point.
3. turn hands over so that they face palm down
4. swivel lower arms so that your arms make a / \ shape.
Your hands should now be positioned above the keyboard. Congratulations.
Now here's the thing - my hands did not rotate on any of the axes with the wrist as the pivot. They are quite simply lined up with my lower arms.
Perhaps if I was classically trained with the 10-finger method; My indexfingers are still on f and j, but my middle fingers are on e and o, ring fingers on w and p and my pinkies pretty much just linger in the genera area where they end up, ready to hit tab or backslash although in general (I've not taped myself, I would say that I hardly use them at all. I just caught myself hitting the right shift to get the ( and I'm sure I'll hit it again for the ) yup ).
So I can only imagine people moving their arms even further in, ending up with a /\ and adjusting their wrists in the exact opposite angles. Yeah, I guess that could get rather painful after a few hours, let alone several years.
Or maybe everybody's body is different and so some people get problems regardless on a 'straight' keyboard, and others don't.
if you are a left handed windows user...
Sounds like some obscure Jeff Altman insult...
Am I the only one that uses the volume knob on the speakers to change my volume? it's right next to my mouse/keyboard, so it's really easy to get to and it always works. As far as the Mac keys go on a Windows keyboard, what does this guy expect? I use a Mac keyboard on my Windows machine and I don't complain about the CTRL and ALT buttons being swapped. It is what it is.
For the Playstation 3...comes with a USB wireless dongle. I plug my computer into a 37" flat screen TV in the living room and loaf on the couch with the wireless keyboard with built in trackpad...under $40....
It works with OS X slick as poo. It finds it no problem and you just have to click a couple buttons when first plugging it in.
I wish they would get in the habit of mentioning if the letters are molded into the keys or do they use decals. As a gamer, my home systems always ends up with blank WASD keys... here at work the home keys get a beating... the two year old keyboard I'm using now has half of decals for the A and S keys missing. My answer at home was a backlit keyboard from Logitech. Personally I don't care if the keyboard clicks or not... I do like to be able to read the keys though.
Lurchicus - For Sig, see other side.
then hell, get the Logitech DiNovo Edge with the lithium ion batteries, recharging stand, and circular built-in touchpad. It's laser-cut out of a sheet of lexan for chrissakes, you don't get much sexier than that with a keyboard, and it has superb wireless that runs out-of-the-box on Ubuntu LTS.
Not a great keyboard for us wage slaves, though; very expensive and kind of optimized for media-center couch potatoes... suboptimal for desktops.
It doesn't MATTER what order you put alt/opt and cmd/win keys in, so long as they're always in the same order.
90% of the keyboards available are only available in "ctl - cmd/win - alt/opt - space". So people with Macs will often be in a situation where the order the keys are in changes from keyboard to keyboard.
Apple needs to make these switchable on a per-keyboard basis, and remember what order they are on each keyboard, so you can put things in the apple order no matter which keyboard you're using, and I can put them in the windows order no matter which keyboard I'm using.
I honestly cannot recommend the Keytronic Design Keyboard enough.
The keyboard has a definitive "clack" that is not quite as resistant as the M, but its a lot better than other off the shelf keyboards. It also has a slight curve to it that makes it fantastic for those of us that spend hours a day typing.
IANAKOEE (I am not a keyboard or ergonomics expert), but I have owned the M, a Unicomp customizer, a few Saiteks, a Logitech G15 and countless others. I can say without a doubt that for I would hurt a small kitten if Keytronic decided to stop making them.
I love it so much that I actually sent back a Customizer because its simply not as good. Now excuse me while I /afk to go do disgusting and possibly illegal things to my keyboard.
I will stick to my Happy Hacker, although I wish I would have bought the USB version instead so many years ago.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Funny, I just did an annual clean of mine and it's just like new again. I've got an old logitech internet navigator keyboard that cost about $35, five years ago when I bought it.
My friends laugh at me for doing something so ridiculous. They say, "Why not just go buy a new one?" when the hair and the crumbs and whatever else makes it look nasty. It took me about an hour, but the way I see it, I saved at least $35, plus I don't have to buy a keyboard that's going to require some retarded drivers, and have to get used to a whole new feeling keyboard.
You're nothing; like me.
.. just like all other keyboards that are not ergonomic.
Seriously, I have been using ergonomic keyboards since the first MS Natural Keyboard (the ony thing MS ever did right was their keyboards, which were probably bought from some other company), and it is quite literally painful for me to type on anything else now.
on Mac OS X. Go to System Preferences, then Keyboard & Mouse, and click on the "Modifier Keys" button. You can then swap any around -- I set caps lock to be control, but you can also change the Alt and Command keys. So if the keyboard has them swapped, you can swap them in software, and be happy.
For those using Windows, don't forget AutoHotkey, and the ReMapKey.exe program that comes with Windows XP.
When my keyboard gets too dirty, I take a digital photo of the keys, pop them all off and chuck them in a bowl of soapy water. Good as new in half an hour. The photo is so I can work out where they all go back, even the obscure keys.
Pro Coffee Drinker
Right: as described by me here, in an article that appeared on /. about a month ago.
I've been using the TypeMatrix EZ-2030(Dvorak) for a few years now. It's not impossible to switch back to staggered (and usually qwerty) keyboards, but there's some things I'm just so used to that I miss pretty quickly.
The two big ones is the enter key and backspace in the center and the caps lock WAY THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY. On the laptop I'm using I actually removed the caps lock and threw it away. I never use it. Ever. It's a big, dumb, mean, stupid key and it does not belong next to the A key.
What's also nice about it over other keyboards is it's tiny and doesn't have all the extra plastic surrounding it. It doesn't always bother me but sometimes it just really helps to have the extra space around the keyboard.
What it does sacrifice, though, is the dedicated numeric keypad. I never use that but then I don't use numbers much.
It's also on the expensive side at about 100 dollars, but they've replaced it free for me twice (first some keys stopped working and the second time my cat knocked something heavy on it).
OH! The absolutely most useful feature on it for me, but probably not much anyone else here, is it can convert qwerty to Dvorak through the hardware so when I take it to school with me I don't have to install the keymaps every time I log into the computer.
Check it out, typematrix.com
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
At work I use Sun machines which have two different keyboards dependent upon which generation of Sun machine I'm using. I also use a Windows machine with a standard "Windows" keyboard. Needless to say, a lot of the "alt" types of keys are in different places. At work I moved back and forth with ease. At home I only use Windows with standard "Windows" keyboards. But one day I decided to fire up a Linux live CD. I logged in and opened a terminal window to vi something and immediately started hitting the wrong keys. I'd never used a Sn keyboard at home but as soon as I was in Linux I was all messed up.
I realize I'm a traitor for actually hating the IBM-style keyboards, but Hey! I was never a nice guy to begin with :)
I like quiet keyboards, actually I like quiet everything, except for my speakers. I've been OK with the mid-range Microsoft keyboards for the past decade, the ones with decent travel and a heavy base. Right now I'm on an old "Internet Keyboard Pro", and I'm quite happy with it. If and when it dies, I'll probably replace it with the closest match I can find.
I never really saw the appeal of the Das Keyboard, the Happy Hacker or any other "programmer" keyboard. For one, I don't like the prices, and I don't have any fondness for the loud-ass heavy-sprung keyboards of the 70s and 80s. I type in excess of 175wpm, that's a shitload of clicking in my ears, 15 hours each day. I'll go deaf as I age, that's a given, but I'd rather go deaf from playing excessively loud and enjoyable music, than excessively loud keyboard clicking.
If someone could make a silent keyboard with just barely enough spring to rest my fingers while presenting minimal keypress resistance, with a 10-year lifetime, now that I could spend a few hundred dollars on.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Ergonomic keyboards have the keys in the positions your hands are supposed to be. It's a neutral position. There's plenty of research as to this, but really you just need to look at the position your arms and wrists take when you use one.
As to you using a normal keyboard with no problems, well that's great, and most people can. Most of the population doesn't suffer from RSI, even when they do things improperly. However if you do, you need to deal with it, and part of that is getting ergonomic input devices.
If you are really interested in this sort of thing, you should do some research. Most of what you know, the "mother's common knowledge" stuff is probably wrong. Like the idea that sitting up straight is the best idea. Nope. Reclining is a very healthy thing to do, and indeed the very best ergonomic chairs are made to support working in a reclined position.
My current keyboard, and by far my favorite of all that I've used or owned, is the Microsoft Natural Ergo Keyboard 4000.
I know, I know. It has a hideously long name and it's from Microsoft. Ignore these things as best you can, it's really quite a nice keyboard. Obviously it is a split design, which doesn't work for a lot of people, but it's more friendly than any other split design I've tried. It's got an interesting set of ergonomics which I won't explain here because Microsoft's product page (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=043) does a good job of explaining.
For reviews, in case you don't want to bother doing a quick search, there are the following:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,123241-page,1/article.html
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000400.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/keyboards/microsoft-natural-ergonomic-keyboard/4505-3134_7-31485240.html
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Natural-Ergo-Keyboard-4000/dp/B000A6PPOK
Anyway, just my little bit of input on the topic. It also should be noted that I have no experience in using this keyboard on OS X, so I suppose that this keyboard's usefulness in that context is something that those who use that OS will need to look at a bit more closely, since I can offer no input in that regard; although, it should be compatible in general as it connects via USB.
[no/text]
Run your old keyboard through the dishwasher... NO SOAP. Let it dry for a week or so. It'll work like a charm and be shiny clean again. I've done it several times without a problem. -T
Do these four words qualify as a bona-fide /. meme yet?
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
One problem I've noticed is that... the per keyboard mapping isn't completely effective. USB keyboards won't respect their per-keyboard mapping, from what I've seen.
USB doesn't specify a standard way for devices to have a unique identifier. The result is that all USB devices of a given model appear identical to the host. So if you have two Das Keyboards, the host cannot tell them apart (within the world of USB).
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Remap it to backspace. Or anything else you'd use commonly -- it's prime real estate on the keyboard, and remapping software gives you the option to use it for whatever you like. It's a great opportunity to improve your keyboard quite a bit.
These days, my favorite is the gold touch keyboard from key ovation. It has very good feel and travel (though without the m-series clicks), a highly adjustable, split, ergonomic design, windows meta keys that exist but are placed out of the way in the left corner, and no bulky number pad. I've been typing on one for years now, and I can never go back!
For ultimate, functionality, comfort, programability, the Kinesis Classic is hands-down the keyboard of choice. The last one I had was in daily use for just over 12 years. The only reason I had to finally let it go to pasture was that it had a PS/2 connector - my new Kinesis is USB. It too sports two USB connectors, but it has a MAC and Windows key, and fully programmable. It may take you a few hours to get used to the different keyboard layout but well worth it - if you're not a touch typist and still 'hunt-and-peck' forget it. If you do the math 6cents a day for this keyboard is well worth it in comfort, eye-candy, and typing speed.
I was under the impression the dot matrix printers of the 1980's were the loudest most annoying peices of computer equipment ever created.
You obviously never saw a daisy-wheel or golf-ball printer in action. Thump thump thump thump thump thump thump click-whir thump thump thump...
My first DMP was quiet in comparison.
/me waits for someone with an ASR-33 to jump into the thread...
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
My old keyboard was so crusted up with junk from years of self-abuse that I found myself. . .
There. Fixed that for you.
How much force is required for a keystroke on the Das? I've tried both a Unicomp Model M clone and a CVT Avant Prime. The buckling springs in the Unicomp are a little too stiff for my delicate little hands, whereas the ALPS switches in the Avant feel a little too loose. Overall the CVT Avant Prime is the best keyboard I've ever used, but I'd love to find a key switch with resistance somewhere between the buckling spring and the ALPS.
The new thin Mac Keyboards are absolutely amazing! After using this keyboard all day, I actually find it tiring to type on a laptop.
VP, Technology http://www.fanboom.com/ Your Sports. Your Way.
I tppk a blade ro my keyboaes anf now I hacw a Das Profwaaional.
Model M = The most annoying keyboard ever created. ...it is the loudest most obnoxious piece of computer equipment ever created.
Heretic! Like the bumper sticker says, If it's too loud, you're too old! Granted, I don't think they were talking about keyboards, but the principle stands.
(This was typed on my IBM 13H6705, which is basically a Model M with an integrated pointing-stick. Lets me manipulate the "mouse" pointer without taking my hands off the keyboard. Mmmmm... clicky.)
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Dude, if there's one person in the world who you can prove conclusively does *not* read Slashdot, at all, it's CmdrTaco. (And the other editors.)
Comment of the year
They introduced per-keyboard control of the modifiers in OS X 10.5. If yours and CmdrTaco's comments are any indicator, though, they did not make this easy enough to find.
.sig: file not found
I have looked at those keyboards in the past and I cannot believe that this company has guts to charge $130 for a keyboard that is not even ergonomic.
Why would anybody who spends a lot of time typing buy something that costs so much without offering any benefits? Yeah, it looks slick. So does any other keyboard that costs more than $10. Volume controls, etc. are becoming a commodity on most keyboards nowadays. So what am I paying for? The same goes to Apple with its innovative (cough) bluetooth keyboard that costs $80. Can't use that thing for more than 10 minutes.
Want to sell a keyboard for $100? Do the following:
Make it ergonomic. There is no reason not to do it. People have not been born to use keyboards, so make a product that is easy to use.
Make it easy to clean. Keyboards are freaking filthy. No ergonomic designs offer a method for easy cleaning.
Reduce the noise level.
Replace the defunct numeric key pad with a track ball so I don't have to reach out anytime I want to use my trackball/mouse on the table.
Then I'll buy the keyboard :)
Even from a cursory (get it!?) glance, with that tumor at the top right where the USB hub goes; you can't shove it up against a flat surface without canting. Bzzzt.
KeS
as it has a key with a windows logo on it.
but if it's not wireless, it's a complete waste of time, not to mention a nightmarish assault on style.
Wires are out, remember?
The Matias Tactile Pro keyboard is much the same thing, a clickety-clackety mechanical switches keyboard, but it does have the volume control keys the reviewer missed in the Das Keyboard.
Best Keyboard for unix geek... is a Sun Type 7
Reasons:
* Damn good tactile feedback
* Heavy
* Has 15 (yes fifteen) extra function keys
* Dedicated meta, compose and alt-graph keys.
* 3 USB Ports (on top, not sides), including a hidden one for mouse.
* Comes in a variety of native layouts
- Traditional PC
- UNIX (American)
- UNIX (British)
Country kit is $70 and comes with a keyboard and (a damn good ambidextrous) mouse. Choose carefully. Part numbers are google away.
- mritunjai
If you really love the mechanical keyswitches and want a Mac Friendly layout, I'd recommend the Matias Tactile Pro: http://matias.ca/tactilepro/ I've had one for 4 years now and absolutely love the beast. Won't solve your usb port on the side problem though.
It's been replaced by the tactile pro 2 http://matias.ca/tactilepro2/ which I have no experience with, but If it's anything like the original it would be a great keyboard.
Linux is unix training wheels, while BSD *is* unix.
In the pictures, the alt key is next to the space bar where it belongs. Where did you want them to put it?
I couldn't find out from their site -- does anyone know whether this uses the Alps keyswitches? Or, at the very least, feels like it.
Many years ago, I paid $159 for an Apple Extended Keyboard II, and it is the best keyboard that I have ever used, and I'd love to find another with similar feel.
I guess that, like Emacs vs. Vi and other, similar continual arguments, the "IBM Model M" versus Alps is another personal preference, probably tied to whichever one used first...
An important feature of a good keyboard is that it is easily cleaned... After some time, my keyboards gets covered with some disgusting filthy finger-slime yuck... On some keyboards (mainly the bigger microsoft ones) you can unscrew the full top plastic cover and turn it upside down - without having the keys fall out in a 100-piece pile... Now since keys&top cover is only plastic - you can wash it up it like you clean any plastic kitchen gear, let it dry, put it back on the bottom plate with the electronics - Brand new fresh keyboard!
This hands-down has to be my favorite keyboard, ever.
No inane "volume" and "www" keys, and no CTRL-ALT-DEL nonsense. When you typed on it, you knew that the EBCDIC it emitted had enough 'umph' to make it at least all the way to the 3274 controller it was attached to, and maybe even all the way from there to the big mainframe in the machine room.
And most definitely heavy. I think there's probably about as much metal in it as a Toyota Prius. I often think that it'd be interesting to get one of these and modify it to use as a standard USB or ps/2 keyboard.
This would sink "Das Keyboard" in a millisecond.
No keyboard with the stupid, useless, caps lock key in the prime position (next to your pinky) is the "best" keyboard. No way in hell. If you can't dynamically move the keys *in the keyboard* so that the keyboard works identically across all of my computers (Linux AND Windows) through a keyboard switch, then it sucks.
I use the Avant Stellar, which allows me to remap any key I want IN THE KEYBOARD so no matter where I use it the keys are where I want them to be, not where some designer put them on a typewriter 40 years ago and scores of engineer sheep since have simply left them there rather than growing a pair!
The Avant Stellar comes with extra keys in the "strange" sizes to allow me to move the bigger keys like Control, Caps Lock, etc. It has 24 "function" keys, tactile feedback, and a metal back plate not chintzy plastic.
My only complaint with it is that they have yet to come out with a USB version of the keyboard (it's PS/2) which is annoying since I have to use a PS/2 to USB converter and my 8-port MiniView doesn't like it as well as a "real" USB keyboard.
Does anyone know where I could get a real, original, plain 101 qwerty keyboard? Without those annoying (to say the least) windows keys? I'm used to hit the spacebar with my right thumb and microsoft keys destroyed my ability to utilize keyboard. I have a a number of old keybords with DIN plug, which I connect through DIN->PS2 and PS2->USB converters but I'm afraid it won't run with next generation interface. Does anyone out in the world produce the real, 101 keyboard with USB connector?!?!?
You are smarter than Taco?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
No one has mentioned my favorite keyboard of all time: the Northgate Omnikey Ultra. I could set the control key to the left of the A key. There was a second set of F keys in a double row on the left side. The return key was big and so was the backspace key. There was a dedicated asterisk * key underneath the right shift key. And it clicked. Here is a picture: http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/ultra.jpg
This was a typist's keyboard. The keys were even color coded for WordPerfect functions. There was a utility included to remap the keyboard. I bought several but after years of intensive use they are now all gone to keyboard heaven.
Dear Fellow User of the Internet,
Please refrain from linking to Gizmodo or Engadget!
Thanks,
The Rest of the Internet.
You young pups...perhaps some investigation might reveal this mighty kb:
http://world.std.com/~jdostale/kbd/SpaceCadet.html
Some interesting things to note about this keyboard:
* The Macro key for keyboard macro processing separate from any particular application. In the end, macros were really only supported by specific programs like the editor, making a separate key less necessary.
* Terminal, System, and Network keys for controlling each of several layers of communications stack between the user and their applications.
* Roman numeral I thru IV, for quick interaction with menu-like lists of four or fewer choices.
* Four bucky keys: Ctrl, Meta, Super, and Hyper.
* Top and Greek shifts. Greek might also have been called Front. Notice that there are legends on the front of the keys. In addition to a dizzying array of parens, brackets, and brockets, the complete APL character set appears on this keyboard (but not in the standard APL layout, of course).
* Unshifted colon key.
* Thumbs- up, down, left, and right keys. It was never quite clear whether these were for answering yes/no questions or for navigation. In the groups that used this keyboard, there was a cultural aversion to arrow keys. To be honest, I'm not sure why any more.
* A Repeat key. Again, there was a cultural bias against auto-repeat and this was seen as a compromise.
* A nice big Help key, which unfortunately did not do as much as it probably should have.
* Rubout to the left of the home row, as on the Knight keyboard.
You know it makes sense!
-- NSY - SY OOT - Doric signs on local shop doors.
That it is the WIN key.
Although... some claim that it is made of pure FAIL.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
My old keyboard was so crusted up with junk from years of abuse that I found myself struggling to depress most of the keys on the left side.
It's not hard to keep a keyboard reasonably clean. Here's what I do that helps:
1) turn keyboard upside down and rap it a few times -- do this over a trash can (or an easily wiped surface if you want to see how effective it is).
2) canned/compressed air to force out the rest
3) wet-wipe or damp paper towel w/ a little windex to wipe the fingerprint buildup off the keys
And you don't even need to do this that often.
The only things that kill my keyboards are static electricity and obsolete plugs.
http://www.vintage-computer.com/asr33.shtml . . . ah, the crisp, light touch . . . 7-bit ASCII paper tape on the side . . . made a racket like a meth'ed up Bart Simpson playing Whack-a-Mole . . . easy repairs with household scotch tape . . .
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I won't even consider a claim that a keyboard is "the best" if it doesn't even do the bare minimum of arranging the keys according to the needs of human beings. Basically, that means putting the keys into columns (not staggered -- what species have staggered fingers?) and splitting the keys according to placement of the hands.
If you don't split your keys and put them in columns, then you haven't even scratched your way out of the "bland copy cat keyboard" category.
To be fair, there are extremely few keyboard makers which meet that minimum standard.
After the bare minimum, my next requests are: get rid of the useless number pad, add a shift key for symbols and put symbols on all the letter keys (FingerWorks did this and it was awesome), and find some way or another to integrate a mouse into the keyboard without ruining the keyboard, which is a difficult but not impossible task.
Win + U (and a little hacking) gives you a command prompt with system level privilege.
A loooong time ago--we are talking early 90's here--I had a PC that came with a buckling spring keyboards. At the time I didn't think much of it because they were still fairly common. I had seen the membrane style keyboards that were becoming increasingly popular (or at least widespread) and didn't like their feel.
Then I went off to college and got shoved into a 120 sq. ft. dorm room that I had to share with a somewhat temperamental roommate.
I thought my roommate and I were getting along pretty well until I happened to spy a note he was writing to a friend about me... He basically said I was driving him crazy because I "typed like there was no tomorrow, i.e. loudly". I never considered myself a loud typist (and compared to other buckling spring keyboards I was pretty quiet) but my roommate was apparently unfamiliar with mechanical keyboards and thus assumed I was blasting away on a regular one! I can't say that our relationship improved very much after I bought a new keyboard, but I quickly learned that buckling spring keyboards are to be enjoyed in private :)
- Trevor -
[[self-construction]]: The autotherapeutic diary of a crazy geek's journey back to mental health
Seriously Taco, do you edit video every day to the point where you a) had to mention it and b) the placement of the USB connectors killed it for you?
Nice to sound 1337 and all 2.0, but give it a rest. I'm sure if it had an Apple logo on it, you would have eventually returned it all sticky.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
From one of my blogs:
At work and in the past from female co-workers who sit near me hate my typings since they're loud and sometimes fast. One of them instant messaged (IM'ed) me this morning:
[11:48] co-worker: what r u doing???? :-P
[11:48] co-worker: ur so loud
[11:49] antd00d: bah typing duh!
[11:49] antd00d: don't make me type LOUDER
[11:49] co-worker: keep it down
[11:49] antd00d: NO!
[11:49] co-worker:
[11:49] antd00d: haha
A few weeks ago, another one said "Stop killing/abusing your keyboard!" Bah, I say! Computer geeks love these clicky keyboards. I noticed all females non-computer geeks hate clicy keyboards. Hmm! I hate soft keyboards though and I can't type well with them. :(
A few years ago, another woman said similiar thing and suggested I get a soft keyboard. WHATEVER!!
I need to get one of those old, steel, IBM keyboards (Model M) to drive them even more annoyed. Currently I just use the cheap generic ones and from Dell. They're old too and still work. One of my college friends said that I type like a machine gun. :)
--
I think I will order Das KB! I can't use those natural keyboards due to lack of thumbs and four fingers on each hand.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Wah wah wah! I'm a whiny mac user and I don't like a keyboard that windows users do.
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
I was going to ask the same question (in incredulous tone) - "keyboard enthusiast"?
Brett
I'd love to have a good tactile keyboard again, but my wrists have become addicted to the "natural" (split keyboard) layout. Any of these tactile keyboards have that configuration?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
It's your standard issue keyboard for alien spaceships. That way if some pesky earthling manages to get to your ship's bridge and tries to make a getaway, shut off the self-destruct, keep the ship from heading straight into a nearby star, etc., he'll wind up looking that much more stupid trying to figure everything out.
"It's the wild colour scheme that freaks me. I mean, when you try and operate one of these weird black controls which are labelled in black on a black background, a small black light lights up black to tell you you've done it. What is this? Some kind of intergalactic hyper-hearse?" - Zaphod Beeblebrox
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
The best keyboards I've ever used - bar none - are those on the IBM ThinkPads. They beat any desktop keyboard for tactile response and they have the TrackPoint, the best mouse ever invented.
I bought one for $120 a couple of years ago, and have not looked back.
It's designed specifically as a replacement for the Mac keyboard that came with the pre-aluminum iMac, and consequently supports all the mac button + a recessed power button.
Like the daskeyboard it's noisy but well worth it.
I binded my Winkeys for K's Start Menu in the past, but it caused problems with VirtualBox with Windows XP Pro. SP2 guest. KDE and it fought. One time, it made my X not respond correctly. Killing failed to fix it. I had to reboot Linux/Debian. :(
I had no problems with VMware Workstation v5 with Windows 2000 SP4 guest.
Has anyone had this problem before or know how to fix it?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
All that extra bulk on the right side of a 104 keyboard has the effect of either pushing the main part of the keyboard to the left (increasing wrist strain) or pushing the mouse further to the right (real fun to reach for it, you know...)
Amen. The problem is that I really do use the arrow keys and the home / end keys a lot, especially in windows. I mean in most linux apps you can get by without them (Ctrl f,b,p,n,a,e are fairly universal), but in Windows it just isn't possible.
I find that whenever I use a compact keyboard, after I get used to the layout it is fine so long as it is the only keyboard I use. And in some cases I prefer the different layout (like the ctrl key). But if I have to use any other computers/keyboards regularly then the slight differences just slow me down too much.
I really wish I could find a keyboard that ditched the keypad (or moved it to the left) but kept the standard arrangement for all the other keys.
There's something odd to me about someone who would use a Dvorak keyboard layout, the benefits of which only exist if you are a touch-typist, and someone who needs to have the key caps printed with the Dvorak layout.
I use a normal keyboard (Model M of course), and it is made Dvorak through key mapping. And since when the computer boots, it's in qwerty not dvorak, I actually need the qwerty keymaps more than I would ever need the dvorak ones!
The enemies of Democracy are
Sorry but this keyboard has the same problems most keyboards do:
* It's far too wide, especially out on the right side where your mouse goes. The advantages of a narrow keyboard with the mouse right there beside it far out way any benefits a numeric keypad has.
* Loud clacking keys? Um, no. It's the tactile feedback that makes it feel good, not the noise.
* It's straight and flat. Can you say RSI?
What are these "new keyboards" of which you speak?
I have been using the same IBM KB-7953 since the late 90's and it works great. Nice feel, easy typing, and the keys are seated inside 1/4" ridges to keep minor spills out of the way. The keycaps come off easily for cleaning out beard hair and crumbs.
Used to have 2 of them, but one of them succumbed to a severe Jack-n-Coke incident a few years back.
Look at the amazon reviews. All of them complain about the manufacturing and one of them even have some pictures up which look horrifying. I could solder a lot better than that!
http://www.parkoz.com/zboard/view.php?id=my_album&no=51766
Daisy wheel and golf ball? They're not loud when compared to a barrel printer.
Barrel printer? They're not loud when compared to a chain printer. Until 1992 we had an IBM-1403 that we kept around just for re-printing the source code books every month.
(Yes, we kept the source code printed out for taking support calls in the programming department. It was easier to page through the source in book form to find out why things happened than to find the right floppy disks, load up the code, load up the editor, and then page through at 24x80... Documentation? Pffft! Spec? Pshaw!)
We had an upper-case only chain, though. So mixed-case text was always a bit of a puzzle to figure out. Fortunately the programming language was case insensitive.
Even the linefeed/pagefeed was loud.
PS: And don't fuck up the linefeed/carriage return sequence. At 75 inches / second a bad print job could ruin a box of paper in a few minutes.
Get off my lawn.
Since then, I've been using a razer Tarrantula, as I won vouchers in a local tech shop and had to use them. It's a fine keyboard, as far as the feel of it goes, and thusfar I've found most of the functions of it quite useful. The rotate/zoom/reset zoom keys on the left are never used, as that's mouse and modifiers in Photoshop etc, but the browser and media keys are small but reachable. Profile switching is a godsend in some games, macro-capable keys at the side see extensive use in many applications. Biggest con is that it's big, there's a good inch on each side more than the average keyboard, so don't use it on a small desk. The keys above the arrows are rearranged, delete is larger, home and end are above it and pgup/dn are vertically arranged on its right. Scroll Lock has been relegated to above the numpad with Insert, break and printscreen, where you can't knock them. Scroll Lock is currently mapped to "F5" to go with my browser set of macros on the right macro keys. It's an expensive thing (£70 or so when I got it), so don't buy it just because you want a new keyboard.
They've got 'props'.
to operate the mouse. Seriously, look at your workspace. I'll bet that you have a lot more useful mouse space on the left than on the right. Opposite hand mousing is very convenient and you'll be able to adapt in about an hour. (Hint, use the configuration software to swap the mouse buttons or it will drive you crazy.)
And, please, everyone lobby the mouse makers to offer left handed versions of those nice ergonomic designs.
And should you be running Tiger or earlier it is pretty trivial to set something up to toggle the key mappings for you. For example, on my laptop with Tiger I use a small applescript (which I can send if anyone needs) and Marco Polo(which is freaking awesome software). Marco Polo detects when my laptop is plugged into a USB keyboard and triggers the applescript that changes the key bindings.
was the VT-240 by DEC. It came in amber phosphor, which gave me good geek cred in the early 80's while coding in VAX FORTRAN. I could map batch files into user-definable keys, so I could compile, link and execute in one click. Awesome.
The keyboard was a dream. I've never since figured how to adapt it to a PS/2 or USB port to use in the PC world (just the keyboard, not the sweet sweet amber monitor). USD$100 to anyone who can sell me an adaptor, plus parts and shipping. I have a VT-420 (not VT-240) laying around, with it's parent MicroVAX, just in case anyone comes up with one...
I'm a longtime fan of sorts of this one. The "ergoforce" concept actually works and makes typing feel nice (idea is that keys that are pressed with index finger require more force than the ones pressed with your little finger).
Problem: I cannot find these anywhere anymore - at least not in Europe. No hope in getting the Finnish/Swedish keyboard layout (I've searched around) but it seems that they are not anywhere anymore. Some webstores have them in listings and usually always out of stock.
So: What's a good keyboard that would have similar ergonomic feel (I *hate* MS Natural keyboards with their "split" design - and Logitech seems to have their keyboards full of crap), would have the standard AT/E IBM layout (that my brain has been hardwired to over the years), no fancy multimedia keys, and QUIET.
Das Keyboard would be very interesting but the noise drives me away from it.
Get a Razer Lycosa, unscrew the wrist-rest and throw it away, turn off the back light and you have das ultimate keyboard.
Front page news on Slashdot! A piece of mediocre hardware in a category that hasn't been really improved upon in decades. The reviewer doesn't even like it that much, so why even post the article in the first place? What else are we to see in the future? "Hey guys, read my review on this average-ass USB hub". WHY?
Slashvertisement, that's why....
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
I've done this for a number of years, but I haven't found the need to swap the buttons. This way it's also convenient for the occasional guest users.
I feel like there's a whole philosophy behind this ingenious idea of mousing with the 'wrong' hand. A lot of things are designed for the right hand, the right sides of devices, while most people have two fully functional hands. I find it really empowering to use the keyboard and the mouse at the same time, and being right-handed the only way for me is to type with the right. For example, web surfing with the arrow/pgup/pgdn keys on the right side, convenient for the right hand.
Incidentally, if you're right-handed, your left hand is more closely connected with the spatially-oriented brain hemisphere. Thus it's the natural hand to use with the mouse. But with this 'designed for right hand' world around you, using your left hand for something precise will feel really awkward at first. It probably helps if you play the guitar or keyboards, for example.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
All of my fellow employees and myself use the Das Keyboard while at the office. My boss made it a requirement that all technicians use it haha. It was a bit challenging at first, mostly due to the number row for when you type in passwords, but you get the hang of it rather quickly. I thoroughly enjoy using it nowadays. I love the loud clacky keys and it's always a crowd pleaser when visitors are checking out the office space. Overall, I wish it was about 75% cheaper because that is what it's worth. I love the mechanical keys and the whole idea, however I love my $8.00 Keytronic USB keyboard just as much.
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
I remember looking at one back in high school, and I'm close to graduating from college. So I'm not really sure why this is news, I guess.
Buy one of these. They're excellent.
http://www.amazon.com/IBM-USB-Keyboard-UltraNav-31P8950/dp/B00009APTK
I use the internal trackpoint for most navigation, and relegate the external mouse to graphic design.
Much quicker, since you don't have to context-switch to use the mouse.w
Ok, you have the right to buy an overhyped, gaudy mac running a dull unix with some standard unix applets and pay ten times more than for a standard linux system running exactly the same applications.
And I have the right to call you n00bish. But well, maybe your ego just needs some external extension to your self respect ;-)
"Life is short and in most cases it ends with death." Sir Sinclair
We've had our very own high-quality mechanical keyboards for years now, and they even come with the Apple and volume/CD keys! My Matias Tactile Pro is going on four years old and nary a hiccup; my Apple-branded membranes were lucky to last four MONTHS.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Ah, but if you plugged the keyboards into two different USB ports, they would look like different devices to the host.
That isn't quite correct. USB bus topology has no concept of "ports". There are hubs and there are end-points. The OS can differentiate between devices based on the path to the hub they are connected to, but not the port on the hub.
For hosts with multiple USB ports, there is this concept of the "root hub". If you've only got two ports on your host, chances are each port is connected to the same root hub. Hosts with more ports typically gang ports together into a smaller number of root hubs. So if you've got 6 USB host ports, they might be distributed among 3 root hubs. The host OS will generally be able to differentiate between root hubs, but not ports.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
The hard bit is not to feel sick about the quantity of crud inside the keyboard - especially other people's skin flakes and hair. For a cruel trick on coworkers (as seen on xkcd) get them to hold their keyboard at arms length and slowly raise it abover their head while keeping the keys in sight.
Is that related to the way USB must be handled??
No, that is an artifact of how Windows does hardware.
When a device becomes known to Windows, it gets "enumerated". This basically means it gets a registry key somewhere (it will be under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum if you want to poke around). That yields a "device instance ID", which uniquely identifies that bit of hardware and how it's connected to the system. (Important if you've got two of something. Like, say, two identical model hard drives.) Drivers get bound to enumerated instances.
As I mentioned, USB doesn't uniquely identify individual units. Models, yes, but not units. (In other words, USB can tell a Logitech MX70 from a Logitech MX50, but it can't tell the difference between two Logitech MX70's.) This makes USB bus enumeration somewhat non-deterministic. Combined with how Windows manages hardware, and you've got the behavior you describe.
If it's just one device you're moving around, you usually see it as Windows prompting for drivers the first time you plug it into a given root hub. The more devices moving around, the more combinations there are, so the more possible device instance IDs there are.
Linux has similar but different problems. Linux doesn't normally "bind" drivers the way Windows does. Drivers auto-load and you're happy. Fine for a webcam. But if you're trying to differentiate between, say, multiple hot-swapped USB mass storage devices, things can become tricky. Linux at least has features which can be used to address this problem, by looking at other info (like reported storage element ID). With Windows, you're sunk.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
i've been using the Das Keyboard since January on my Mac Mini and love it. i just remapped the keys in Preferences, which i'm not sure why you couldn't do with a script if you were so inclined.
i started typing with a switch-based keyboard, and now i can finally have one on the mac. i couldn't be more happy with this thing.
the only problem is it's on loan from a friend of mine, and i really ought to buy my own.
It's like a keyboard from the 80s? It doesn't have all of those dipshit chiclet buttons for opening AOL and volume and forward/back/subtitle for the inbuilt DVD player? It's frustrating to use on a Mac?
Good lord I want one of these keyboards! If only I had a desktop. I have my EEE and an external keyboard still in the box because I have somehow taken my extra-large hands and learned how to type on the tiny inbuilt keyboard.
I really, really miss my first Microsoft Natural like another poster has - when it broke (not sure how it broke, but I think it involved beer and an ex-girlfriend), and I got another one, it was the newer variety with the stupid arrow keys. Sigh.
What brand of refrigerator was Harrison Ford Product Placing for such contingencies?
I dunno, but I've really gotta get me one of those fridges that can withstand a nuclear blast, completely fend off all radiation, and is completely comfortable to ride in through mile-long rough-and-tumble, so much so that you can immediately get out and walk away from earlier-mentioned nuclear blast. Did I sum that all up in one sentence well enough?
On newegg, lite-on actually sells a pretty nice black and silver keyboard. The space bar needs quieted down a bit by attaching some masking tape around one of the metal connector rods, but besides that its great. Its small but not cramped and fits my desk perfectly. It works great for gaming, albeit the cord is a bit short. They have one with media keys and one without them (i dont have them), but it appears the media key version is out of stock. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823107120 Wait until a free shipping day to get it though; thats rediculous right now...i got mine for free shipping back when fedex did supersaver on there lol... But really, I bet anyone could find that this keyboard is the best gaming keyboard for the money + a few pieces of tape :)
The main benefit of Das Keyboard is the high-quality Cherry mechanical keys. Such keyboards are rare since the mass market provides cheap, rubber-membrane ones for those who don't know the difference. Hair accumulation is a problem if you have cats. Mechanical keyboards can be cleaned. Rubber ones may not work after reassembly.
then it's a software problem. From the look of the Mac control panel it seems that you *can* specify them per keyboard (to have different mappings on the laptop keyboard vs the external one). Maybe this is a bug? I'm sure that in X you could do it without any trouble.
I've used a 105-key Das Keyboard II for over 1 1/2 years and I'm very impressed by its durability. Other keyboards died on me after a couple of months, but this one prevailed. The only criticism that I have is that if you type cryptic passwords frequently (especially with numbers), you almost always mistype a character (and I've been touch typing since 1983). I'm currently back to a more regular keyboard, but I do love my DKB II. BTW, it's not loud, it's about half-way between a regular keyboard and an IBM keyboard. The IBM keyboards can really put a strain on your hands if you type a lot, DKB II doesn't. And the price -- if I would need another one, I'd gladly shell out the 80 EUR again. A good keyboard is worth extra money, especially if you type a lot.
104/105 keys was not enough to me :). Thats why I use the G15 with all extra keys and small lcd screen.
LCD screen was no useful and other keys are really useful when you programmed for certain tasks (generatin html tables etc)
Sadly Second Generation was cripled.
I wish to see G11 layout (without lcd screen) and full clicky keys.
[My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]
I'm typing this on the best keyboard I've ever used: a Microsoft Office RT9450. Unfortunately, they decided not to support it with Vista even though it was still being sold when Vista was launched. I'm not the only fed up with Microsoft's ecological irresponisbility: http://wombatdiet.net/2007/03/22/computers-are-the-worlds-greatest-timewasters/
n/t
you wouldnt buy a standard keyboard because you like the lame mac key that NO ONE BUT MAC USES
you suck, so does your article
And, it's worth noting that win+D will blast away most modal dialog boxes that are keeping you from launching something else while $company shows you a splash screen. Or a dialog box that you need to see a text file to get the input for (man, I freakin' hate that!).
Now, I'm hoping to remap win+C to a shotgun macro and disable Clippy for good!
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
Nein, nein !, Du bekommst das U-Boot !
You blow a bunch of Mountain Dew thru your nose onto the keyboard, and time for another keyboard!!
Unicomp (the current producers of Model M-likes) are among the few keyboard whose electronics have a decent water-proof isolation from the coffee-spill zone and do feature drain holes to let the mountain dew out before it floods inside.
I'm sure there's a marketing campaign waiting to happen :
"Unicomp the first +5-Funny-proof keyboard"
"Tested with mountain dew and coffee too".
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Vastly over-engineered, vastly overpriced, poorly designed, but hey I can touchtype.
For a two handed person, it means you would be able to use one hand for the keyboard and the other hand for the mouse.
I'd really like to find a keyboard that has the feel of the original Wyse 50 terminals - I'm currently using a series of keyboards, I most recently purchased a Deck Legend (VERY nice keyboard but it's not that light in its travel), the original Wyse 50's were hard terminate (no sponge feeling at all as it had no membrane, just hard plastic against hard plastic like the Cherry switches but a lighter action with shorter travel)... Anyone seen anything like this for a PC?
I agree with you that part of the issue is that so many people judge based on the el cheapos that they picked up somewhere or other or threw in the cart at Fry's along with the cases of Mountain Dew. The idea of being offhanded about such a crucial aspect of one's life has always seemed strange to me.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
The sad part was that that wasn't the dumbest part of the movie.
They have the perfect, positive tactile feedback and are utterly bomb- and computer-rage-proof. I've slammed my hands down on the keys hard on a number of occasions in frustration with no damage or change in performance.
I've been using these since I worked for the local IBM PC dealership in the early 90's and pick them up whenever I come across them. And I always get them for free as most idiots utterly fail to realize the significance of their quality.
Who is this delectable creature with an insatiable love of the dead?
How is this the best keyboard on the planet? They keys don't even light up!
Wrong. USB specifies the mechanism for obtaining a device's unique serial number through the iSerialNumber field of the standard device descriptor.
I stand corrected. Do you know if iSerialNumber was not present in an earlier version of the spec, perhaps? I tried to find the 1.0 or 1.1 USB specs, and couldn't. In the past, I was told -- by people who I thought knew what they were talking about -- that USB doesn't have unique device IDs. Or, since it's optional, maybe it is typically not implemented?
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
IT was fine. He does impossible stuff all the time.
I think when it's something people ahve a feel for, or is recent it snaps there suspension of disbelief.
I know they kept saying nuclear in the film, but they should have been saying atomic.
radiation can be cleaned(it's not contagious)
Your real complaint seems to be the Indiana Jones can take a lot of abuse!
Is it really worse then being on the back of a submarine traveling across the ocean?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Oh joy. A command prompt with the same level of priviledge as... er, yourself. How pointless. (Contrary to popular /. belief, the LocalSystem account has the same permissions as an administrator, with access to a couple of extra files - like the SAM - being the only thing differentiating it)
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
I have three Microsoft Natural keyboards and worry what I'll do when the last one dies (around 2017). MS still sells the Natural Elite that replaced it, but that has the ridiculous diamond pattern set of arrow keys. Their Natural® Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 has the inverted-T set of arrow keys but a lot of redundant extra keys, and doesn't feel as good or durable.
Adesso sells Tru-Formâ Mac and USB keyboards with a similar ergonomic layout, last time I tried one it had a squishier action which some may like.
I can type blazingly fast on a "linear" keyboard or laptop keyboard, but it's hard to believe anyone who finds twisting their arms inwards and cocking their wrists outward more comfortable than using a split angled keyboard. I've used a co-worker's Kinesis Contoured Ergonomic that lets you separate your hands even more, but not for long enough to tell if I'd prefer it.
=S
Try the new Mac keyboard,....works fine with windows or Ubuntu as well.
It redefines the word 'Civilized'.
I've had two Das Keyboard, one for home and one for work, for almost a year now. It is honestly the best keyboard I've ever had. The tactile feedback and clicky noise does amazing things for my touchtyping speed because with this thing I immediately sense if I've hit the wrong key, or typed something wrong.
What got me to buy these in the first place is that I frequently change the language layout of my keyboard while I type. The US English layout is the only sensible thing to use for programming, but for emailing, typing documents, etc. I need the characters of my native language.
Finding the right letters is easy enough, but the problem is that all the non-letter symbols get arbitrarily shifted around as well when you change layout. The fact that Das Keyboard doesn't have any markings on it makes me able to do the layout switch in my head much more easily because there's nothing on the keys to confuse me about where the symbols are when I look down.
(On a related note I've also found a use for the Caps Lock key. In the Ubuntu keyboard settings, I can set this key to switch between language layouts)
The lack of multimedia buttons is an inconvenience I can live with. I've just remapped Ctrl+Alt+various keys to Volume control, Play/Pause, etc. in my music player.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity. -Isaac Asimov