Das Keyboard II: A Switch for the Better

Last year, I reviewed the original Das Keyboard, the all-black, all-the-time keyboard from MetaDot, and found it disappointing. MetaDot was kind enough to pass on an example of their next generation keyboard for comparison. The upshot is that the new version is quite a bit better than the original: it's now equal in keyfeel to the best keyboards I could find at local superstores, which dampens my major complaint. It's still a cool-looking but questionably useful all-black, and is still more eye-candy than finger-food. Just the same, this unique product now bears more consideration. (Read on for the rest of my review.)

A switch of switches:

The packaging may be nothing special, but it's much more graphically appealing than the plain cardboard box in which my sample of the original Das Keyboard arrived -- it wouldn't even look out of place in an Apple store. I was happy to see Larry Ewing's iconic rendering of Tux on the outside of the box, too, alongside old-style MacOS (really! But it does also work fine with Mac OS X) and Windows XP icons. Considering that it's a USB keyboard, a pretty mature technology, there's no surprise that it's Linux compatible, but I still enjoying seeing a penguin on the box; I consider Ewing's penguin marketing genius. I wish more companies with products just as easily Linux compatible would take advantage of the freedom they have to advertise this.

Now, on to the keyboard itself: it's still black-all-black. The only labeling is the printed "Das Keyboard" in the upper left corner, and a sticker with the usual regulatory and manufacturing information on the underside ("Designed in Austin, TX"). And if it matters to you, the current iteration of the keyboard is made in the Czech Republic, rather than China as was the previous version.

However, Das Keyboard is no longer a dead ringer in for a black-painted classic IBM Model M board; the lines have been made a bit straighter overall, and there's now a slightly rebated edge on left and right sides where the Model M is straight. Viewed from the side, the "dish" of the keys is now quite a bit shallower than that of a Model M design as well. That sounds like bad news for those of us fixated on older keyboards for their superior hand-feel, but since we're not quite in the realm of IBM-style clackityclack keyswitches anyhow, that difference is fairly subtle. And there's one nice thing about the new board's design I'd like to see in more keyboards: the "F" and "J" home keys are more deeply cut than the rest of the keys on the keyboard (by something close to a millimeter); this makes it easy to get one's hands realigned in (on rather on) the dark.

Noise aside, the new Das Keyboard is now equipped with mechanical keyswitches (made by Cherry, as is the keyboard itself) rather than the typical membrane assembly found in most keyboards nowadays and one of the things I wasn't keen on in the original. It's a good change. The new version is actually fairly pleasant to type on, and for touch typists of moderate or greater proficiency, the unlabeled keys should be no problem. I'm still skeptical of the advantage of all-black keys to those trying to learn to type (or improving their speed), but the keyfeel is no longer a distracting liability, so I'd upgrade claims on that front from "silly hokum" to "an open question."

According to a company representative, the new key switches are rated for "50 million key strokes instead of 30 million key strokes"; I'm sure somewhere around keystroke 29 million I'll sigh with relief. Such numbers are pleasant to know about and hopefully reflect a reasonable methodology, but I suspect no keyboard's keycaps are going to last long enough to keep up. Still, the new keyswitches are far more responsive, and -- at least comparing the particular examples I have of the old and new versions -- far louder. It reminds me in fact of middle generations of the Dell "QuietKey" board (which were never quiet, despite the name). So if you must type around any light sleepers, perhaps you should treat them to some warm milk before bedtime. And though I prefer the slightly deeper dish of the old version, it's an easy trade for the new one's improvement in keyfeel.

Small bonus: the new one's USB cable is a few inches longer than the old. That's about all there is to say about the connection.

The long and short:

Das Keyboard is still not my ideal keyboard, and you pay a bit more than my budget deems reasonable for the novelty of a keyboard that looks like an ideal prop for the next misunderstood-teenage-hacker movie (about $80 from ThinkGeek). But I can type reliably on the new version, which I simply never managed to do on the old, so they're doing something right. Given the improved key response, I can even imagine buying into -- or at least reconsidering -- the claims of improved typing speed or confidence as a result; I've certainly surprised myself by tapping this out with less temptation to look at the keys than I usually have (and that's after quite a few years and a few thousand hours of at least desultory tapping at both computer keyboards and actual typewriters), so for one with more self-discipline than I have, the all-black keys might be useful enough to try out.

On a five-star scale then, where I'd probably probably give the old version only one, but I'd award this one two and a half stars.

For Bonus points:

The previous version of Das Keyboard was (except cosmetically) a clone of the Keytronic 3600 series; I'll shoot some subscription pages to the first reader to point (in the comments below) an otherwise identical keyboard, but with factory-labeled keys. Note: I don't know that such a thing exists, but have fun looking.

Comments

+5 to ePeen

[metasecure]

Since the article neglected to provide a picture, or link to the product website, click here - http://www.daskeyboard.com/ Call me stupid, but I just don't see what the big deal is. I guess it's analagous to something we have in Canada known as "French immersion" - they put you into a French school where no one speaks (or is allowed to speak) English and supposedly you'll learn French much faster. This allows you to learn touch-typing faster? Dubious. In my opinion, all it's good for is showing off to non-touch-typists and maybe increasing the size of your e-peen slightly.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Two words: "geek points"

Re:+5 to ePeen

[The Mad Debugger]

Well, the all black keyboard would be great for some geek cred, especially 'round the office.. but I'm just not going to pay that kind of cash for it.

I've also fallen in love with the two extra USB ports on my Apple keyboard at home. I don't think I'd willingly buy another keyboard that doesn't have a built-in hub. It's just so darned handy.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[MBCook]

I don't think it would help you learn to touch type, I think it would hurt. The only part I think it would help is after you have learned the key locations and to touch type but you look at your fingers because you don't "trust" yourself yet. Back in school I remember seeing many kids get to this stage in typing class. Many don't get past it. They just don't type enough to get over that hurdle. Something like this would help them.

That said, it's easier to just cheat. Why is IM so full of "LOLs" and "U R so cool. C U l8r."? Mostly it's because people either can't type at all or are not very vast so they take those kind of shortcuts.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Andrzej Sawicki]

Typing correctly without looking at your fingers also requires a certain sitting position, so don't blame it all on too little experience. It also depends on the situation, I think (I know it does in my case.)

That said, it's easier to just cheat. Why is IM so full of "LOLs" and "U R so cool. C U l8r."? Mostly it's because people either can't type at all or are not very vast so they take those kind of shortcuts.

It's called being lazy. Ain't we all? ;)

Re:+5 to ePeen

[hackstraw]

Call me stupid, but I just don't see what the big deal is.

I don't either. I've designed and studied keyboards over the years and the best way to type faster is to type more accurately. 30 words per minute accurately is much faster then 100 words per minute inaccurately. These are estimates here, but they are based on my own measured speed.

The best thing to do to a keyboard to increase keying speed is to make the backspace much more difficult to use. Back "in the day" when people had to type on typewriters and they had things like carbon copies and whatnot where a single mistake meant that the whole thing had to be redone if there was an error, or it took considerable time and white out to correct the problem, people learned 1) to type correctly the first time and then 2) to type more quickly _with_ accuracy.

Sure you can use a split keyboard, a kenesis keyboard, a dvorak layout, or even a custom one, but until you get accuracy together nothing else will increase your speed or productivity.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[JakusMinimus]

That said, it's easier to just cheat. Why is IM so full of "LOLs" and "U R so cool. C U l8r."? Mostly it's because people either can't type at all or are not very vast so they take those kind of shortcuts.

yeah well, your mom is vast, LOL!

Re:+5 to ePeen

[enyo]

I really do think that typing without printed letters on the keyboard helps to learn how to write good and fast. I also think that you do not have to buy a 'Das Keyboard' for that, but that you can remove the letters yourself if you want to.
1 year ago, I started learning dvorak, and since I didn't want to buy another keyboard for that, I just learned to write with this one, keeping a window open with the dvorak layout image, which is quite the same as having a keyboard without letters. I always used 10 fingers to type, and I always typed quite fast (8.3 characters/s), but for some letters I didn't use the right fingers, which forced me to deplace my hand, so that sometimes I lost the original position. That has always irritated me, and I always wanted to get rid of it, but I couldn't get over it. Since I started using dvorak, I have a perfect hand position, and I type every letter completely by the book, which _is_ an advantage.
The normal learning technique to type with 10 fingers and being able to type blind, is to cover the keyboard, so you don't see the letters -> forcing you to memorize the key by position, which immediately helps you gaining a control over your finger placements, and memorizing the letters by their positions, not by visualizing them.
So I think, that having a keyboard without letters printed on it, FORCES you to type correctly, and is indeed a very good help to aquire speed.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Golias]

Wouldn't a real geek simply use a solvent to take the letters off the cheap black Dell keyboard they "midnight requestitioned" from the office and save themselves $200 or so?

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Anonymous Coward]

A real geek WEARS the letters off of his Model M.

For mine, MNSOP90[; are gone, only 93 more to go?

Re:+5 to ePeen

[saintp]

Actually, I'm pretty sure a real geek would spray-paint their keyboard camoflage before a particularly grueling hack session.

Hack the planet!

Re:+5 to ePeen

[fm6]

I don't think it would help you learn to touch type, I think it would hurt.

My experience is that it neither helps nor hurts. I learned to touch type in pre-computer days, in a "typing lab" where none of the typewriters had labels on their keys. Then about a decade later I decided to brush up my skills on my own, using a regular typewriter and a practice book I got from the public library. Comparing the two experiences I have to say there was little or no difference. Then again, maybe the first time I got into the habit of not looking at the keyboard, something that might not have happened if I'd started out with labelled keys. I guess it's all about how much self-discipline you have.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Hannah E. Davis]

It can also be used as a deterrent for non-touch-typists, particularly technologically illiterate relatives, who might want to use your computer.

My dad used to bring his own keyboard up to my room whenever he wanted to do something on my computer because the letters on my ultra-cheap keyboard had long since rubbed off, but if he hadn't had miscellaneous spare keyboards lying around, he would have been out of luck.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Cal Paterson]

M N S O P 9 0 [ ;
Heh. Sometimes it's easy to spot a lisper.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[cow-orker]

When my mother learned touch typing on a mechanical(!) typewriter, they had cardboard covers to block the view to the keys. Some students peeked under the covers, some didn't. Those who didn't generally learned touch typing faster. And I mean faster: 300 characters per minute is damn fast, even more so on that mechanical monstrosity.

That was somewhere in the 1960's. Mechanical typewriters went the way of the dodo, "typist" is no longer a profession, but not seeing your keycaps still helps the muscle memory remembering them.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[TWX]

Nah, we'd airbrush on a naked woman, pinup/WWII style, with the important bits resting on certain important keys...

Re:+5 to ePeen

[MichaelSmith]

they put you into a French school where no one speaks (or is allowed to speak) English and supposedly you'll learn French much faster

Two thirds of my co-workers speak French but in seven years working for Thales I haven't picked up a single word. Otherwise I would have to listen to all of the crap spoken around me. French is almost like a cone of silence for me.

Getting back to the keyboard I can understand knowing how to find Q, W, etc. But what about % and &? I always have to look.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Skreems]

It only costs $90 in the first place... dunno how you expect to save $200 unless you help yourself to some other office supplies as well...

Re:+5 to ePeen

[phreakincool]

Yes, but they are plotting your demise in front of your face!

Re:+5 to ePeen

[undeaf]

>That said, it's easier to just cheat. Why is IM so full of "LOLs" and "U R so cool. C U l8r."? Mostly it's because people either can't type at all or are not very vast so they take those kind of shortcuts.

It's called being lazy. Ain't we all? ;)

Don't knock it, it reduces wear of the wrists. It wouldn't hurt if it was the normal way of spelling.

If you don't want to change the language, then change keyboards: switch to something more like dvorak, make space and maybe shift foot operated, and move some keys in the top and bottom rows to where the spacebar was.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Anonymous Coward]

typing without printed letters on the keyboard helps to learn how to write good

Probably won't help with English grammar, though.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Mahou]

and what certain sitting position would that be?

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Anonymous Coward]

> The best thing to do to a keyboard to increase keying speed is to make the
> backspace much more difficult to use.

Agreed. That's why I have a thumb tack glued to mine.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[mrchaotica]

with the important bits resting on certain important keys...

No, that's Picasso style, not pinup!

Re:+5 to ePeen

[MaelstromX]

30 words per minute accurately is much faster then 100 words per minute inaccurately.

This is like saying that 4 oz. of iron filings weighs more than a pound of feathers. If you can type 100 words in a minute while punching backspace all the time, you have typed over three times as many as the person who carefully makes sure all his keystrokes are correct.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Orlando]

This backspace is intentionally left blank.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Randall_Jones]

he meant 100 words per minute that aren't corrected, i.e., that you have to spend the next minute or two re-reading and correcting.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[dasunt]

I don't either. I've designed and studied keyboards over the years and the best way to type faster is to type more accurately. 30 words per minute accurately is much faster then 100 words per minute inaccurately

The best way to type faster is text-based PvP MUDs. :D

Re:+5 to ePeen

[HTH NE1]

Well, the all black keyboard would be great for some geek cred, especially 'round the office.. but I'm just not going to pay that kind of cash for it.

I'm waiting for the Optimus Keyboard. It has a free Das Keyboard emulation mode of displaying nothing on all the keycaps.

And for those who actually miss their old hunt-and-peck learning curve, consider programming it to randomly reorder the keys with every keystroke.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[mkw87]

with the important bits resting on certain important keys...

Couldnt you just link to goatse or something, now I have images of nerds going "oh home row, oh home row" stuck in my head. Thanks a lot.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Andrzej Sawicki]

You have to sit pretty much straight ahead of the keyboard, not to the side. Mind you, I do not think it is hard to achieve, I just happen to change positions very often while in front of the computer, unless I'm working.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Andrzej Sawicki]

It's called being lazy. Ain't we all? ;)

Don't knock it, it reduces wear of the wrists.

Point taken, on one hand.

But, I do mind people who babble instead of talking using full sentences, and even more so if the conversation is written. I do not think this silly talk would change much with modifications to spelling of all languages (the problem is universal, not just English,) or better keyboards. I really think people are just lazy.

Re:+5 to ePeen

[Kazin]

Back in 1996, I painted my keyboard completely black. It did help me learn to type better - though I was already damn good.

I just don't see why this thing is so expensive.

Link to keyboard

[dogmatixpsych]

Link to the keyboard. http://www.daskeyboard.com/

like this?

[B00yah]

? is this what you're looking for tim?

Re:like this?

[Ant P.]

I've got one in front of me. :) It's got mechanical switches. Noisy as hell but they never jam up unlike the 2-year-old Logitech one I had to replace. Also I think it's armour-plated or something since it weighs a ton.

Re:like this?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not the same model. I've seen that keyboard in use a lot where I used to work. The dell pictured there has a curve to the overall housing that Das Keyboard does not. Also, the section above the function keys looks smaller on Das Keyboard than on the Dell.

Re:like this?

[peawee03]

I use one of those at work, I like it. I don't know if it really has mechanical keyswitches, but it feels and sounds good anyway.

Where I work, I support the Windows desktops; my co-worker who supports the Linux clusters has the same keyboard, but it's a standard 101 key layout (no windows keys), has a marbleized blue-grey pastic casing, and has a Silicon Graphics logo instead of Dell. Same keyboard otherwise. Very cool.

Re:like this?

[Ant P.]

Yeah, it's mechanical. If you press the keys in very slowly you can feel them clicking halfway.

What's up with this article?

[Umbral Blot]

It's nice to try new things once in a while, but the dark green bars with black lettering make for poor section dividers, not to mention that it usually makes sense to divide an article into relatively equal sections. Even weirder we have the quote: "On a five-star scale then, where I'd probably probably give the old version only one, but I'd award this one two and a half stars." The article title however implies that the new keyboard is better than the old one, which usually implies that it in some way is up to standards that the previous version wasn't However a 20% to a 50% approval is still failing, by any standard. A better title perhaps would have been: Das Keyboard II: Not Quite as Bad.

Re:What's up with this article?

[epine]

On my monitor which has never had good gamma at the black levels I didn't even *see* the black text on the green bar until I read your comment. I've tried no end of adjustments but eventually I realized that any site worth reading does create this problem to begin with.

Re:What's up with this article?

[LiquidCoooled]

The section breaks are specially designed using dasKeyboard.css
Taco has invested many man hours judging the CSS competition, he'll be damned if hes gonna waste any entries.

Re:What's up with this article?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I didn't even *see* the black text on the green bar"
-yah, me neither.

I just Ctrl-A in those cases of terrible design.

Re:What's up with this article?

[Agret]

"On a five-star scale then, where I'd probably probably give the old version only one, but I'd award this one two and a half stars." The article title however implies that the new keyboard is better than the old one
Well thats obviously why it scored higher than the old one isnt it?

Oops!

[op12]

From the site: "We have teamed up with Cherry to equipe the Das Keyboard with the best and longest lasting key switches in the industry."

Look out for that unlabled "pe" key! It must be right next to the "p" key.

Re:Oops!

[Ossifer]

pe-key? No, the writer just spent too much time in the Canadian "French immersion" school...

Hmm.. Alternatives?

[kunwon1]

Anyone know of a similarly well-constructed keyboard -WITH- symbology?

Re:Hmm.. Alternatives?

[SoCalChris]

The Customizer 101 from PCKeyboard.com is a remake of the old IBM keyboards. Available with or without the Windows key. I have one, it is by far one of the best keyboards I've ever seen.

Re:Hmm.. Alternatives?

[jonadab]

Yeah, sure. Get an IBM Model M keyboard. They sell on ebay all the time for the kinds of prices that make the cost of shipping a major component of your total expenditure. And they *are* a good-quality keyboard.

If what you want is The Perfect Keyboard for Computer Geeks, then you'll want an Avant Stellar. It costs more, but it's fully remappable, supports macros, comes with a tool for changing the keytops, and all that sort of thing, plus it has the function keys in _both_ places (left side, like on an XT keyboard and top edge, like on the newer 101-key layout), so whichever place They Were Meant To Be in your opinion, there they are, and then you can use the others for extras or macro keys.

It's not black, though.

Re:Hmm.. Alternatives?

[badasscat]

If what you want is The Perfect Keyboard for Computer Geeks, then you'll want an Avant Stellar.

The keyswitches themselves seem lower quality than on IBM's old Model M's, though. But this may be a personal preference thing. Avant's keyboards have a lighter touch - some people may like that, but then some people actually prefer rubber domes. I still think if you're a real keyboard snob, you go for a Model M.

It's good to keep in mind, though, that "Model M", despite its name, is not one model of keyboard. It's basically what IBM called all of its standard 101 key keyboards for a while. IBM even made a Model M with rubber dome keys. You need to be a little bit careful in which Model M you get, though all you really need to do is just look at the pictures and read the description carefully. If it says "clicky" or "buckling spring" or "keyswitch", it's the good kind. Then it's mainly a question of cable type - PS/2, the old AT style, coiled, straight, detachable or not. Also, some Model M's had detachable key caps - so you could a) remap the keyboard to a Dvorak layout very easily, and b) clean the key caps a lot more easily than with most keyboards.

IBM did make a Model M in black as well. Check it out. They are harder to find than the standard ones, though, and definitely more expensive. Still a bargain when you consider how much you'll use it, though. But not so much when you consider that you pay basically about an 80% premium for the color.

Re:Hmm.. Alternatives?

[xornor]

I have the endura pro usb it's great, I don't have to lift my hands off the keyboard to move the mouse.

Re:Hmm.. Alternatives?

[evanspw]

Absolutely a-men, 100%, true. Truly nice to type on. I make far fewer mistakes. Loud, but in a reassuring way ;) -p

Re:Hmm.. Alternatives?

[Agret]

lol clickykeyboards.com is such a rip off. $100 for a keyboard you can just pickup for $1 at an op shop.

Seems more like a German Band's Name to me

[unity100]

"Das Autobahn" or the like.

Too germanic.

Re:Seems more like a German Band's Name to me

[Anonymous Coward]

It is indeed a combination of the German neuter definite article "Das" with the English word "Keyboard" (and the Roman numeral "II"). "Keyboard" is also used among German computer geeks and musicians. If you asked to be handed "das keyboard" in Germany, you'd get whatever computer or musical keyboard was nearby. I assume that they chose that name because Germany is associated with technological proficiency and minimalistic design. The proper German term however is "Die Tastatur", which is feminine and doesn't sound quite as minimalistic.

Re:Seems more like a German Band's Name to me

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't Autobahn the "fake" Kraftwerk band in the Big Lebowski? Maude pulled an old LP out.

Re:Seems more like a German Band's Name to me

[unity100]

They told me Autobahn was not name of the band but the album. The band was named 'kraftwerk', in a few comments ago.

Re:Seems more like a German Band's Name to me

[LiquidMind]

if you want to be grammatically correct, it's *die* Autobahn, not das.

and yes, IAAG ;)

If you're not just concerned with "looking cool"

[bill_kress]

This concept really works well. I used the same concept in the 80's.

To break yourself from looking at the keys, place a hand-towel or washcloth or something over your hands while you type.

It will take about 2 sessions and you'll be typing like a pro.

If you buy this product, the net result (over the alternative listed above) will be to simply annoy anyone else who uses your keyboard. If this is your goal, you NEED this product, but if you're not just doing it for appearances, go grab yourself a towel and have at it, you'll be cured in 2 days.

Mechanical keyswitches?

[croddy]

So it's even more deafening than the last revision. Great. I'll stick with my quiet Logitech keyboard, thanks.

Re:Mechanical keyswitches?

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

Enjoy yourself.

I suppose, just like you, there are people that prefer McDonald's hamburgers over a perfectly cooked Kobe steak. Personally, I don't need one of these because I've still got a stockpile of Model M's to use.

Re:Mechanical keyswitches?

[bishiraver]

Sound when typing is a matter of preference. I prefer mechanical switches to quiet ones, because it gives me more than simple tactile feedback as to whether the key has been pressed or not. Quiet keyboards also tend to give much less tactile feedback. Less tactile feedback, at least for me, leads to slower and more innacurate typing - due to my mind being less sure of my actions from lack of feedback.

Northgate/Avant Keyboards were/are better

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/menu.htm

I can make my own "das keyboard"

[j2crux]

I made my own, (granted its white) but it's called using alcohol, qtips, and some extra time.
(By the way, it's a great way to learn dvorak http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/

Re:I can make my own "das keyboard"

[DJCacophony]

I tried it by soaking the key in acetone and ended up melting the key.

Re:I can make my own "das keyboard"

[Anonymous Coward]

My thinkpad lacks the Fn key since it dropped into the water cooker... Alcohol and qtips. I guess the Pause key will have to try it...

w00t!

[GillBates0]

OMG ALL the keys are spacebars! What could be better than this for programming in Whitespace!!

Re:w00t!

[jrockway]

> What could be better than this for programming in Whitespace!! [?]

Why, Acme::Bleach of course.

(And, even cooler, is Acme::Greek ;))

What's your favorite?

[Just Some Guy]

I have two favorite keyboards: the IBM Model M I'm using here at work, and the Happy Hacking Lite I have at home. I love the feel of the Model M, but don't like the location or spacing of the function keys (LALT-F5 and higher to switch to higher-numbered desktops) gets a little painful and awkward by the end of the day. The Happy Hacking board is wonderful, but I do occasional miss the extra keys (ever play Tux Racer when you have to chord arrow keys?).

Given that my boss says he'll buy me a nice keyboard within reason - everyone else seems to have those Microsoft Unnatural keyboards that I hate - what would you recommend as a happy medium between the two?

Re:What's your favorite?

[LiquidCoooled]

Take an old style IBM model M and whack it with an axe.
Not only will you reposition the offending function keys, but you will get the funky natural keyboard affect.

Job done.

*Also, with how sturdy those keyboards are, you will also need to invest in a new axe handle and sharpening stone.

Re:What's your favorite?

[Just Some Guy]

I dropped the thing on my foot once and now my big toe makes this funny clicking sound whenever I flex it.

Sharpening stone? I don't know what they make ax heads out of where you live, but Sears doesn't sell the depleted uranium wedges your local store must carry.

Re:What's your favorite?

[Adam Hazzlebank]

Cherry Click Keyboard. Cherry non-click suck.

Re:What's your favorite?

[Isaac-1]

Northgate Omni Key 101, similar feel to the IBM model M, but a bit quieter.

Ike

better than plastic

[dizplacer]

i still like my duct tape keyboard better. as posted on the duct tape guys.com

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[geekoid]

"To break yourself from looking at the keys, place a hand-towel or washcloth or something over your hands while you type."

Why can't I just wear gloves? ;)

Locks

[Jethro]

So... do you have DEDs to indicate when you hit numlock, capslock and scrolllock?

Hotblack Desiato would love this...

[fahrbot-bot]

I believe it would complement the decor of his stunt ship: all black on black. Nice...

Re:Hotblack Desiato would love this...

[EvanED]

And when you press caps lock, a black light lights up on a black background to let you know that it's on!

Re:Hotblack Desiato would love this...

[MichaelSmith]

I believe it would complement the decor of his stunt ship

Such a waste of an expensive keyboard: to smash it into a star.

i wonder...

[joe 155]

... as someone who can't reliably touch type ( a rarity for /. I think) I wonder if this would actually help me. Not knowing where they keys are without looking is not my main problem though. My main problem is that I only really use 2 fingers to type which I'm pretty sure this couldn't help (I know, but I learned bad habits and now have just got quite quick at it this way)... so what it should say is that it "could have you typing at the same speed, only this time you'll be able to look at the screen whilst typing, so hopefully there will be fewer errors"

Re:i wonder...

[Eideewt]

Using two fingers is definitely your problem. It's pretty much impossible to touch type accurately like that. Touch typing relies on being oriented to the home row and having each finger assigned to specific keys. When you have to move your hands around to reach them all, it becomes really hard to know where you are.

Re:i wonder...

[SanityInAnarchy]

You NEED to practice typing the normal way. I used gtypist to learn dvorak, and it should be useful no matter what layout you end up deciding on. You must be absolutely religious, though. Don't look at the keyboard, and if you must, find a way to cover the keys (or get Das Keyboard). You'll need a layout to look at when you've completely forgotten, but it's a lot easier to wean yourself off of if it's on-screen or something. And you absolutely must use the finger it tells you to. Trust me, typing with all your fingers is much better than just using two.

Re:i wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

Try an ergonomic keyboard. It 'forces' you to use good typing habits by making sure you only use the correct hand for the correct keys.

Re:i wonder...

[AndreiK]

I personally touch type, but I still use only a few fingers, and my hands are all over the place. I just remember where they are, so I developed a pretty accurate way of typing for myself.

It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[smug_lisp_weenie]

If you're buying a keyboard with blank keys do yourself a favor and get the Happy Hacking blank keytop model

Das Keyboard contains a major conceptual flaw- What good is a keyboard with blank keys if you can't touch type on it? The Happy Hacking keyboard places ALL 101 KEYS within touch-typing range. I've been a happy customer of this keyboard for years- It has a fantastic key action, is very compact and allows for very fast programming if you learn to use it well.

Plus, if you're an emacs geek, it allows for perfect ctrl key placement that is perfect for emacs navigation.

Das Keyboard, on the other hand, looks like something a wussy vi user would type on!

:)

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[iamdrscience]

Plus, if you're an emacs geek, it allows for perfect ctrl key placement that is perfect for emacs navigation. Das Keyboard, on the other hand, looks like something a wussy vi user would type on!

Actually, I use vim and I've been considering the happy hacking keyboard partly because of the advantage it gives to a vim user. On the happy hacking keyboard the escape key is where the tilde key is on a normal keyboard, making it a little easier to hit.

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you just post a link to a $259 keyboard? Do you know how many blowjobs you can by for 259 dollars?

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[secolactico]

If you're buying a keyboard with blank keys do yourself a favor and get the Happy Hacking blank keytop model

I dunno if it's the same one you mean, but the keyboard you linked has only 60 keys and costs $250.00!! Definitely not for cheapos like me.

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you insane? That keyboard is "on sale" for $260 down from $270!! You can build a complete computer for not much more.

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Anonymous Coward]

ummmmm... $259??? How much are you getting for posting that link?

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Eil]

The Happy Hacking keyboard places ALL 101 KEYS within touch-typing range.

I think you mean "all 60 keys."

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[ItsIllak]

Sorry - remind me, what use is a keyboard that doesn't have a numeric keypad beside it? Simply designed to slow us down, seems a bit pointless, especially that that uber l33t pricetag.

I type quite accurately at about 80wpm - I buy the cheapest keyboard the local PC store sells every time the old one dies (about every three years, unless it's a Dell laptop in which case every three months). Frankly I know that there were typists using manual typewriters and going at 150-200wpm - it's not a hardware issue....

then again, I can't think that quickly either....

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[morgan_greywolf]

The "light" model has dedicated arrow keys, is about the same size, and costs only $69.

I have that keyboard and I absolutely love it.

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Kjella]

If you're buying a keyboard with blank keys do yourself a favor and get the Happy Hacking blank keytop model

Yes, I'm buying a keyboard that doesn't have any text, so I'm going to get one where all the keys are cramped together and in different places. Might as well set a dvorak keymap while you're at it, just for extra masochism. Anyway, I still use my old IBM keyboard (which I know drives everyone nuts with the clicking except me) which I've used since... well, I don't know but roughly as long as the PS/2 port has existed. Possibly since the PS/2 model 20. Still works as a charm. And if it finally dies, I'm going to dig up those that bought the design and buy another one, though an all black one would also be good. But, who am I kidding I think this keyboard will last another few decades, so... that's what nearly killed IBM - I'm sure there are overengineered IBM machines that are fully usable today, except they've been replaced five times over by something that's been going to the landfill.

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[mav[LAG]]

On the happy hacking keyboard the escape key is where the tilde key is on a normal keyboard, making it a little easier to hit.

Do yourself a favour and map CAPS Lock to Ctrl. In your xorg.conf file it's just the line:

Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps"

in your InputDevice section for your keyboard (this remapping is also possible in Windows I believe). Then ESC can be typed with a Ctrl-[ and your hands can stay on the home row for maximum vim power :)

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Anonymous Coward]

Five?

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Anonymous Coward]

No. How many?

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[killproc]

If you're looking for a keyboard with blank keys, I'll sell you a bottle of Whiteout® for $100. Everybody wins!

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[bobamu]

I've paid less for cars

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[Eric Smith]

what use is a keyboard that doesn't have a numeric keypad beside it?

It's quite useful to those of us who have learned to type numbers well enough on the main keyboard that we don't need the separate numeric keypad. And it makes room on my keyboard drawer for the mouse; I can't stand having to move my right hand from the keyboard drawer to the desk surface to use the mouse, and keeping my hand that high using the mouse for an extended time causes me pain.

I buy the cheapest keyboard the local PC store sells every time the old one dies

I don't want to have to get used to the layout and quirks of a new keyboard every few years. I want a keyboard with a layout I like, good feel, and that will last a long time. If I have to pay $300, that's fine with me, as long as I'm actually getting better construction. Certainly I wouldn't pay $300 for a keyboard built the same way as the $20 model.

The keyboard, mouse, and monitor are the most important parts of my computer., since those are the parts that I directly interact with many hours a day. If I need to save money on the computer, I'll save it elsewhere.

Re:It's still ain't a Happy Hacking Keyboard...

[timothy]

I like the key action on Happy Hacking keyboards pretty well, but (and I know this is one of the selling points, so don't shoot me for it) I've never gotten used to using a really small keyboard. Maybe that's because I frequently type the way I'm typing right now, with legs extended onto a shelf or ottoman, and the keyboard resting on my thighs. I'd be happy to give the HH keyboard a chance, but when I've used it at trade shows I was impressed but not enough to spend the $70 or so for the cheapest version, and definitely not enough to spend multi-hundreds on one, blank keys or no! (I've considered spending quite a bit on a Kinesis, Maltronics or other deep-bowl-dish keyboard, which *look* amazingly comfortable, but not until I type on one in person first.)

I don't know if he still uses one, but I remember in the summer of 2000 that Richard Stallman was using a HH rather than the keyboard on his laptop, and seemed to be a happy hacker with it :) On the other hand, I'm sure his hands made it do magic emacs tricks which mine would not.

My bias may be cliche, but it's real: I like a loud, clicky, snappy, breaking-glass-rod feel, and though Model Ms are the obvious source of that feel, I have quite a few no-name or little-known brands that I've picked up in thrift stores which have equivalent (or in some cases arguably better) feel. My Northgate OmniMac was expensive IMO at $100, but well worth it, and only after I got that for my first computer did I experience cheap Model Ms. The OmniMac's chassis feels like steel, and might actually be. The keys though, are utterly responsive. Similarly impressive: a split-layout keyboard (predating the MS Natural) and terminated in an AT plug, which I've connected to an AT PS/2 plug and from that to a PS/2 USB plug. $2.49 in a Florida panhandle Goodwill shop!

timothy

But does it...

[Nom du Keyboard]

But does it let me run pharming macros for WoW?

It would make me nuts.

[Sazarac]

I think the blank key thing would eventually make me insane. I already flop around uselessly, stuck in paroxysms of hunt-n-peckery, after switching from my work keyboard (IBM P/N KB-0225) to my home keyboard (Eluminx Sapphire). The delete and right-ctrl keys are in different places, see... http://www.thinktechie.com/reviews/05-2003/eluminX /kb05.jpg

However, I do dig the "clicky high-end mechanical switches". Anyone who's played a Kurzweil KX88 next to a cheapo Casio can agree with that.

Re:It would make me nuts.

[the arbiter]

Give a Bosendorfer grand (or a Steinway, but the Bosendorfer is just that little bit better) a whirl and you'll be tossing that Kurzweil in the garbage :) Talk about "high-end mechanical switches"!

Can't resist replying to a musician's post. I'll go sit quietly again.

Re:It would make me nuts.

[Sazarac]

But can a Bosendorfer make dog barking or Hammond B3-like noises? Actually the Kurzweil can't either-- it's just a MIDI controller. Your ref reminded me of one of my fave books: The Piano Shop On The Left Bank http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0375758623/002-55 32244-0080817?v=glance&n=283155

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I wonder if Das Keyboard II comes in both QWERTY and Dvorak variants? *chuckle*

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Or really piss them off and switch to the Dvorak Layout and don't move your keycaps!

People say that security through obscurity doesn't work, but I've never had a problem with someone using my computer when I've got it in Dvorak. They get frustrated soooo fast.

French version?

[ubergeek65536]

Cool but can you get a French version.

MCK-142

[Libertaine]

I got one of these a few years ago
http://www.monu-cad.com/keyboard.htm

2 sets of function keys
the 24 programamble function keys are exactly what I was looking for.

Still at $150 I think it's a bit pricey but I haven't had a problem with it yet.

Re:MCK-142

[random_amber]

See now that's a sweet keyboard. It's way more ubernerd looking than das k.

Random_amber

Re:MCK-142

[Libertaine]

yeah, works nice for command line work. Just run a sort | uniq -c on your shell history file to figure out what commands you're typing all the time and get some nice little short cuts.

hit and miss reviews

[thelost]

I've always been slightly puzzled by the inclusion of reviews on slashdot as they are incredibly hit and miss in terms of content. This proves that, and just what the bleedin' hell is going with those horizontal dividers Timothy? They're hideous. 100 years in the CSS stylepolice dungeons.

I'll give your review a nice round 1 out of 5 Timothy, you get the one point for making the effort to write it and -4 for writing such appallingly bad print.

Re:hit and miss reviews

[Xugumad]

> This proves that, and just what the bleedin' hell is going with those horizontal dividers Timothy? They're hideous. 100 years in the CSS stylepolice dungeons.

One first read of the article, I thought they were a rendering glitch!

Re:hit and miss reviews

[Anonymous Coward]

1-4=-3

I still like my Model M

[Anonymous Coward]

I still like my Model M keyboard.

I have Das Keyboard

[MotorMachineMercenar]

the original. I really like it. The only time the blank keys are a problem is when you're typing with one hand (haa haa) or hunt and peck; since it's more difficult to see which letters you are hitting you will make mistakes. That's why I prefer to always put my hand on the f or j buttons so I have tactile feedback.

A bit off-topic: I cleaned the keyboard and took the space bar off. I didn't manage to put it back correctly and now it's a bit "lazy." Any websites which describe in detail how to properly put the space bar back?

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[MotorMachineMercenar]

Oh, one more thing: the really annoying thing about Das Keyboard is that it lacks a key between left shift and z. I don't remember if this is standard in the US, but it's an important key in most non-English layouts.

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[Eideewt]

What key is usually there?

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

i have a | (pipe) and a \ on mine - uk keyboard

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[Deitheres]

on most US keyboard, that key is above the enter (return) key, assuming it is the rectangular shape, rather than the L shape.

Can't remember where that key is on keyboards with the l shaped enter key...

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[bishiraver]

Keyboards with a large enter key usually half the size of the backspace key and stick it to the left of the backspace key. I cannot stand this layout.

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[Deitheres]

ah yes, now I remember. It has been a long time since I have used the older style... I knew there was a reason I didn't like them, that was it.

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[EvanED]

The other reply to this said that it's usually taking up half the backspace key; I don't think this is the most common layout with the L-shaped enter though. I think more common is to have the right shift key diminished in size then |\ take up the rightmost portion.

Re:I have Das Keyboard

[MotorMachineMercenar]

On keyboards I use it's the key with > and characters.

+5 for feel, -10 for noise

[EvanED]

Why can't people make a keyboard that has the feel of the old Model M without sounding like you're firing off a machine gun?

Re:+5 for feel, -10 for noise

[DigiShaman]

Because some like the noise to maintain an audible rythem when hacking away. Think of it as a metronome.

ther are still no keymaps other than US

[ga53n]

I asked about a german version of "Das Keyboard" v. 1, but still no luck with it. Well maybe they now will make versions for other keymaps as well.

"Teamed up with"?

[mjg59]

It looks awfully like a recoloured Cherry G80-3000. The LED design gives it away.

How many key strokes?

[nother_nix_hacker]

Das Keyboard is rated up to 50 Million key strokes where as regular keyboards barely reach 10 to 15 Million strokes.

Wow, you could save a file in Emacs without having to swap keyoards halfway through! ;-)

Paint it ALL black

[Marge N. Lacoste]

I see a Num Lock and I want it painted black /
No LEDs, of course, I want them to turn black /
I see the words scroll by, can't read but half, I know /
Cut me some slack: I learned to spell from reading Rob Taco.

I see a row of keys and they're all painted black /
That logo distracts me, I think I'll send it back /
I used to hunt and peck, then quickly look away /
Then I wore the letters off with hardcore Nethack play.

I wanna see it painted, painted black
Black as night, black as coal
I wanna see the sun blotted out from the sky
I wanna see it psinted, paontrd, paimyed. [aint4d nlack

Re:Paint it ALL black

[Anonymous Coward]

Well done. I wish you posted more.

I like Sun Type 6 USB keyboard (X3738A)

[OrangeTide]

For $50 you can get a USB keyboard from Sun either PC-style or UNIX-style (X3738A) layouts. Just drop X3738A into Sun's store and there you go. It's hard to find any other way. It has gobs of extra keys, and the extra keys work great on Macs (like the volume, power and help key) and can be made to work on Linux. I haven't figured out how to get the volume keys or additional F-keys to work on Windows.

Word of warning, the X3738A is a massive keyboard. it has f-keys on the top and on the side. It has esc where ~ normally it, it has ~ where backspace normally is. And of course ctrl where caps lock normally is. Having esc right above TAB is rather nice for vi. the position of \ and ~ and backspace might set some people off. (you can certainlly get the PC layout version instead). the keys are slightly shallower than most keyboards, and they have a tiny amount of resistance and then quitely pass and are easy to press. it teaches you to type more lightly which can dramatically reduce hand and wrist pain.

I've destroyed a few of them with beer and with water. I've also repaired a few that have been completely full of water all night (cat knocked a waterbottle ontop of it, it filled the keyboard up to the brim and sat there all night). taking it apart and rubbing any black corrossion off the celephane membrane with a scouring pad of emory cloth seems to be the way to go, just don't crack the delicate traces or entire sets of keys won't work anymore (an expensive conductive paint pen is needed to repair that).

I don't believe in buying $7 keyboards anymore. my gf still goes for those super cheap ones, she wears the letters off and puts deep groves in the keys from all the typing she does. I don't understand how she doesn't kill her hands with cheap ass keyboards.

Re:I like Sun Type 6 USB keyboard (X3738A)

[Col. Bloodnok]

I am also a big fan of the Sun type 6 - I'm on my third (at home) since they were released, having repaired similarly cat/beer/wine damaged models. Actually, thinking about it, my third type 6 is the first one overhauled (again) and the traces etched back in with (as you say) conductive paint, after giving up on the second one (multiple wonky keys all over the place).

I've never liked the UNIX layout much though, even as a vi user trained on the type 3/4 (which you could argue was a much better keyboard). I prefer the spongier keys of the type 5 over previous models, having come up with the idea of fitting the USB circuitry from a damaged type 5 into a spare type 4 last year - not a huge success. You seem to have to hit the type 4 keys at exactly the right angle or they resist.

I actually launder my type 6 once every year. Taking the thing completely to bits, wash all the keycaps in soapy water, wipe down the membranes and give the case and rubber sheet (the crumb and cat hair trap) a good scrubbing with a soapy toothbrush, then hang it all out to dry, pegged onto the washing line. I put all the keycaps on a towel and let them dry over the radiator.

Also I don't use the useless plastic wrist rest thing, I have a gel filled rest which is much more comfortable, except that I tend to lean on one spot with my elbow and the gel eventually gets squished out and I have to replace it.

Only complaint about the type 6, is that the meta key becomes a dreaded 'windows' key under that accursed OS. My cat tends to press that button quite frequently when I'm playing FPS games, probably just to annoy me. Oh, and the type 6 mouse is dreadful.

Anyone tried the type 7 keyboard yet? Doesn't look all that promising..

Re:I like Sun Type 6 USB keyboard (X3738A)

[EvanED]

the position of \ and ~ and backspace might set some people off.

Dear God, there is no keyboard change from normal I hate more than that. It's immensely frustrating, and goes against just about every UI design principle I know. When I'm using one of the Sun labs at college I will actually use the shell within Emacs because I remapped the ` character to the delete-backwards-character or whatever makes it act like backspace. I can deal with the movement of |\, I can deal with Dvorak and Qwerty, I can deal with ctrl and caps switched, but no matter how much I have used those Sun keyboards I haven't been able to deal with the damn backspace not being where it "should" be.

And it's really a pity too, because I'd love to have a keyboard with ctrl and caps lock in the Unix place. (And done through hardware rather than software.) Esc is probably also better in the Unix layout, though I don't notice that.

Re:I like Sun Type 6 USB keyboard (X3738A)

[OrangeTide]

Well I consider the position of a Sun keyboard to be "normal". PCs are just weird.

No . . . das Kraftwerk.

[mmell]

The album was "Autobahn".

Re:No . . . das Kraftwerk.

[unity100]

Yea sorry. It has been some time since i watched.

Re:No . . . das Kraftwerk.

[Anonymous Coward]

The group is called "Kraftwerk", without the definite article.

Re:No . . . das Kraftwerk.

[mmell]

How the smeg did this get modded "+4 informative"? I mean, it was just a snap comment.

Proof that /.'s moderation scheme needs a little review?

Duct tape

[HaeMaker]

$80? I can make my own with duct tape and a $10 keyboard.

Re:Duct tape

[SharkJumper]

Sure, but where do you find $70 duct tape?

Das nineties

[ivan256]

Remember when making things sound pesudo-german made you Über-cool?

"Symbology?"

[Anaphiel]

"I'm sure the word you were looking for was symbolism."

OK, so I guess that doesn't make sense in context but I couldn't resist.

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[Anonymous Coward]

go grab yourself a towel and have at it

So which hand should I type with??

Real geeks...

[Hymer]

...prefere a genuine IBM Model M.
...it just got the real cool frightning clikety-clack sound.

Re:Real geeks...

[nagora]

prefer a genuine IBM Model M.

Got mine off eBay for 14 quid. It'll probably outlast me; it's tough enough to travel by air in my rucksack without worrying about what shape it'll be when it comes out of the baggage carousel.

TWW

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[hackstraw]

If you buy this product, the net result (over the alternative listed above) will be to simply annoy anyone else who uses your keyboard.

That is why I stick with the QUERTY keyboard vs Dvorak or another arrangement. Its standard, for good or bad.

I'm a good typer, but even today I have to "hunt and peck" for keys that I simply do not use that often. Especially when they are located in different places on my different keyboards. I'm talking things like volume, eject, or even some keyboards put common stuff in weird places like control, cap-locks (which should NOT be on a keyboard in 2006), the arrow keys, or some manufacturers (yes thats you Sun) dare to put the ~ and ` key on the right hand side. I mean they are all fairly arbitrary, but standardization is better then being "right".

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[Ulrich Hobelmann]

Well, to avoid that I always have the key-layout-switcher in my Mac's menubar. Helps them when I can switch back to "normal" layout.

But it's cool when they start typing and get all gibberish, and I say "I TOLD you I'm NOT using the normal layout." :)

Best keyboard: IBM

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM/Lenovo makes the ideal keybaord, with both a built-in trackpad and a trackpoint. Same great tactile feel and convenience of integrated pointing devices as IBM ThinkPad keyboards. Two models are available, one with numeric keypad and one without. Here's a link to the one without:

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/P roductDisplay?catalogId=-840&partNumber=31P9490&st oreId=10000001

Typing this on an original Das Keyboard right now

[Anonymous Coward]

I could type super-fly fast already, so having the blank keyboard didn't really help my speed out all that much. BUT, it did finally force me to learn all the number keys above the letters and the associated !@#$%^&*()_+ keys. I was an AutoCAD drafter at my previous job and even got really good at typing the shortcuts with my left hand without looking while using my right hand on the mouse. My old boss (Mr. Hunt'n'Peck) would marvel at my amazing skills.

Mostly it's just a status thing and to keep other people from using my computer. It does give a bit of "street cred." I like the feel of the original keyboard and I am curious to see if the new one is any better, but I don't think I'm willing to spend another $90 to find out.

If you're a good typist and a keyboard snob, I'd say give it a shot.

Why $90?

[nasor]

My biggest question is, why are they charging $90 for it when it's nothing but a black, blank version of the Cherry G81-3000 Professional brand keyboard? Granted, the G81-3000 is a very nice keyboard, but it retails for around $60. Does it cost them $30 extra to not print the letters on the keys?

http://www.accesskeyboards.co.uk/cherry.htm

Re:Why $90?

[stevebrowne]

Those of us in Europe have the exciting opportunity to pay EUR 89 ($115) for this.

Re:Why $90?

[opusman]

It's not identical to the G81-3000, if you look at the pictures closely you can see the enter key is larger on the Cherry-branded keyboard - the backslash is presumably to the left of the enter key on the Cherry rather than above it on the D.K.

Cheaper solution

[no_such_user]

Though I can type fairly well, I'd look at the keyboard far too often when typing. Especially true for the hortizontal number keys. So I took my (cheap, HP-bundled) keyboard, popped the keys off, and rearranged them (incidentally, the letter keys now spell out something like "thequickbrownfxjmpdvrlazyg"). You don't need a fancy black-on-black keyboard to do something like this. It works even better on old Model-M's. Find an old, dirty, used one real cheap, pop off the keytops and throw them in a dishwasher, take a can-o'-air to the keyboard, and pop the keys back on randomly.

Added bonus: When the desktop support guys come around and need to type in an admin password, they're COMPLETELY thrown off.

Pictures

[DoctorHibbert]

Would it be a crime, if just once, Slashdot actually had some pictures to accompany a story?

Best Keyboard I ever bought..

[Lumpy]

Logitech G16.

The keys feel better than the best Microsoft keyboard, the backlighting of every key cap ledgend makes it absolutely perfect in a low light video editing suite and the macro keys are super easy to use and program. The lame LCD at the top can be cut off and thrown away but the keyboard it's self has a wonderful feel, looks fantastic and is a joy to type on. I was not expecting any of that for a backlight keyboard. I was expecting a piece of junk that happens to have lighted keys.

Cince then I have replaced all my keyboards at home (except this one that has a crappy Microsoft Office Pro keyboard... ICK) and am happy about spending $70.00 on a keyboard. I also like that it is not possible to rub the keycap ledgends off on the logitech as they are moulded in plastic unlike all other keyboards of late.

My only grip is that the keyboard is frigging HUGE. almost an extra 4 inches wider than a normal keyboard.

Re:Best Keyboard I ever bought..

[trentfoley]

I think you meant G15, rather that G16? Assuming so...

I have a Logitech G15 keyboard and it is pretty good for gaming. Its too bulky for normal use, and the cord is... well, a cord.

However, for the best typing experience I have found, give the Logitech DiNovo a try. I absolutely love the feel of the keys, as well as the way it sits comfortably in my lap.

As a bonus, the DiNovo is nice and small, and if you are a true touch typist and do not use the numeric keypad, you are in luck, because the numeric keypad is detached.

Regarding unlabeled keyboards, all I have to say is, Bah! If you want to learn touch typing, just don't look at the keyboard. It is really just as simple as that.

Re:Best Keyboard I ever bought..

[trentfoley]

Rather than cutting off the LCD display, take a look at the Logitech G11 gaming keyboard instead. It is the same as the G15, without the LCD display. According to Logitech, it will be available in the US and Europe this July

Re:Best Keyboard I ever bought..

[Anonymous Coward]

Kid, you wouldn't know a good keyboard if it hits you upside your head. Trust me. I feel sorry for you deprived generation.

Re:Best Keyboard I ever bought..

[arth1]

Lumpy (12016) wrote:

Logitech G16.

I use the Logitech DiNovo bluetooth keyboard, which has two (for me) big advantages:

1: Short key travel, much like a laptop keyboard. Some people hate this, and some people love it. It takes some getting used to, but I find it's great.

2: The numpad is its own (wireless) unit. By placing it on the left hand side of the keyboard, I can actually have the mouse on the right, and still have the keyboard proper centered in front of me. Yes, it's a relearning thing to use the left hand on the numpad, but in my opinion, the much shorter distance to the mouse and having the keyboard centered more than weighs up for this.

(I hate the mouse it came with though -- not only because it's heavy, but I have to fiddle for longer and longer every day to get the charger to connect. And this is the second mouse I have like this too -- in both cases, I eventually had to resort to a regular battery charger.)

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:Hmm.. Alternatives? (Tactile Pro)

[Heynow]

For the Mac there's http://www.matias.ca/tactilepro/

100% Black?

[Anonymous Coward]

My appologies if this is posted elsewhere, but if this keyboard is 100% black, WTF is with the logo in bright white letters?

Mostly improved

[bazald]

While the original Das Keyboard was, for the most part, a rebadged keyboard of high quality (with a logo that wasn't even on straight), this keyboard definitely stands on its own. Personally, I've never had a more pleasant typing experience than I've had with the new version. Not only is less force required to type quickly, but finding the home position is much easier because of the different feel of the 'f' and 'j' keys. This keyboard really feels like its its own product rather than a rebadge.

The only gripe I have is that it doesn't really feel that great for playing computer games because of the way it catches keypresses now. The original felt a lot better in that one case. So, I would definitely recommend using this for typing and something else for gaming.

nur

[Anonymous Coward]

Nail polish remover (acetone you geeks) + tissue/cotton swabs + free-as-in-beer Dell keyboard = Laugh at your friends who paid $90

Ok, I'm sorry but...

[Sycraft-fu]

Between the name and the post, I just have to bite:

Why the FUCK would you pay $250 for a keybaord that is small and has no type on it? That is over double even the most advanced keyboards out there.

I really can't see any reason other than trying to show off. "Look, I'm so amazingly l33t I don't NEED other keys, I don't NEED text! I'm better than YOU."

Seriously, what's the point. If I wanted a small keyboard, I could get one, something like one of the USB keyboards for tablets. However if I wanted a good keyboard, which I do, for about $40-50 for any number of makers. A keyboard that has a design that's actually made to be good as per what you body needs, split, curved keys, an adjustable angle, etc. Plus it has lots of nice extra keys that have useful feautres like the ability to control my system volume and my media player so I can shuffle around music in games and such.

As for the letters on keys, who cares? If you can touch type you never see them so they don't matter. If you can't the lack of them will just annoy you. It's pretty obvious you don't save any money getting one, why bother?

Instead, get yourself a good ergonomic keyboard. Avoid getting RSI. While normal keyboards don't cause RSI, they do encorage bad typing style that can. Get a keyboard built to the natural curves of your hands and it works much better. It's even cheaper to do so.

However, I guess you can blow your money on this if you like, but you reallyu ought to realisticly consider why you like it. My guess is it's more the show than any actual usability benefit.

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[theskipper]

Informative? That was +5 funny. Must have some Michael Jackson fans modding today...

Space-saving Alternatives

[MS-06FZ]

I'm presently using a Happy Hacking Lite 2 keyboard... I want to see what all the fuss is about with the clicky keyboards, but I don't want some 101-key beast, I like my keyboards small.

There's a HHKB pro model, of course, (and a blank-key variant! Sadly, without cursor keys) but I don't have a good understanding of how it differs in practical terms from the lites I have now... Anybody have experience with the HHKB Pro? Or have any other recommendations for 60-80 key keyboards with good mechanical feedback? Or should I get an old IBM keyboard and a hacksaw?

Re:Space-saving Alternatives

[Anonymous Coward]

84-key IBM hacker space saver keyboard True IBM steel and mechanical buckling springs in short form factor http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/catego ries.main/parentcat/9242

nur

[Anonymous Coward]

$90 = 1 Das Keyboard
$90 + acetone (nail polish remover) + tissue/cotton swabs + free-as-in-beer Dell keyboard = 1 Das Cheapboard + 1 keg + 3 handles

The old IBM style in new packages

[Anonymous Coward]

I like the pckeyboard.com products. Can't beat the original IBM-style keyboards.

What about other keyboard features?

[Kelbear]

This keyboard doesn't seem any better than the most basic generic keyboard you can find, except perhaps for the extended key life(But you could buy a nice keyboard twice for the cost of that extended life).

There are so many features on other keyboards, why does this one get to be priced so high for doing the bare minimum?

Where's all the programmable shortcut keys? Macros? Zoom wheels? Volume+media keys? How about tilt? These are the nice little keyboard advances we've made, there's no need to take a step backward.

Re:What about other keyboard features?

[bishiraver]

"Where's all the programmable shortcut keys? Macros? Zoom wheels? Volume+media keys? How about tilt? These are the nice little keyboard advances we've made, there's no need to take a step backward." Programmable shortcut keys suck. They're annoying, especially if you accidently hit them. I pry off my windows key for just that reason. Zoom wheels and extra buttons for navigating the screen can be found on a decent mouse. The Das Keyboard (and II, apparently) are built for one thing: typing. And they do it extremely well. Like most keyboards, it has two feet that you can flip up to adjust how it's tilted.

should be a "painted" Cherry G80-3000

[Anonymous Coward]

The new thing looks suspiciously like a Cherry G80-3000, as seen here or here, or here. This one goes for about EUR 35, or around US$40.

Or compare this and this.

Outsourcing manufacturing to the Czech Republic would be among the default choices for a german company like Cherry.

a dork is called YOU

[Anonymous Coward]

Being called a dork on Slashdot must be like being called the retard in special ed

Shouldn't that just be the Slashdot equivalent of "comrade"?

-5 to ePeen

[JordanL]

I've designed and studied keyboards over the years

Forgive me, but I believe that's a -5 to ePeen.

Attention IBM Model M junkies!

[raz0]

If you're like me, and prefer the original IBM Model M, you'll be pleased to know that IBM sold off their patented buckling-spring (the infamous spring that makes typing on a Model M so good) technology to a company called Unicomp. They sell new USB keyboards with buckling-spring key switches, and you even get the infamous IBM trackpoint on some models! You never have to leave the home row again - not even if you have to use your "mouse"! What more could you ask for in a keyboard? You won't get a better keyboard and eventhough the price is steep for the top-models, they'll probably last 20 years like the original Model M models. And no, I don't work or am in any way affiliated with Unicomp. I just want to pass on the message on - Model M reborn with USB and trackpoint. Sweet!

Re:Attention IBM Model M junkies!

[Doctor Memory]

I've got one of their standard 104-key models, and it's quite nice. Not quite as nice as my Avant Stellar (the reborn Northgate OmniKey), but certainly worth the money. I tend to spend more money on my peripherals, simply because I keep them longer than I keep computers.

It's just too bad that Unicomp's Linux keyboard (with the control key to the left of the A, where $DIETY intended) isn't available with USB. They do custom orders, though, hopefully it wouldn't be too expensive to get that layout.

Yes!

[spiritraveller]

It can also be used as a deterrent for non-touch-typists, particularly technologically illiterate relatives, who might want to use your computer.

This is EXACTLY what I need to keep co-workers from borrowing my desk while I am out of the office!

Re:Yes!

[Chandon Seldon]

You can just take all the key caps off and put them back randomly. At my last desk job, a couple of co-workers did that to me as a prank - when I finally noticed, I just left it that way. Eventually one of them fixed it after it annoyed them enough using my desk.

Re:Yes!

[miyako]

The best way to make use of this prank when dealing with a touch typist is to move the f or j key over one letter. It's a minor enough change that glancing at the keyboard as you sit down at the computer won't catch it. Since most touch typists use the little indentations or dots or whatever it happens to be on that keyboard to realign their hands, it will end up screwing up touch typists just as well as scrambling the keys would do for a non-touch-typist.

Appropriate

[CCFreak2K]

...still more eye-candy than finger-food.

Hence the spoon icon for the article?

supports my typing ideology

[Dukhat]

I'm tempted to buy one of these for all my family members that still hunt and peck. That would make me like the Soup Nazi, "No keyboard letters for you!!!" I guess there is a reason it's called Das Keyboard.

But seriously, I think it would be better if all the F-keys and other command keys had labels, so only the letters, numbers, and symbols were blank. I really don't want to hope I'm hitting the Home key instead of the Delete key.

backspace should be on home row

[j1m 5n0w]

The best thing to do to a keyboard to increase keying speed is to make the backspace much more difficult to use.

I disagree. Perhaps mistakes make typing much slower because the backspace is already far too difficult to reach? And perhaps the typist may decide to write something else after having typed it? For awhile, I had a keyboard set up with semicolon and backspace swapped, and I liked the arangement much better, even when coding C, which requires a semicolon at the end of most lines. Perhaps you think me a horrible typist if such an arrangement is an improvement (and maybe you'd be right), but realistically, much of what a person types will need to be erased shortly thereafter anyways, not because it was mistyped but because the typist changed his/her mind. Keyboards should accomodate the way most users use them in real life, not maximum speed for copying text. We have OCR software for that.

Re:backspace should be on home row

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Epsilon (an emacs-like editor) and have my ctrl key swapped with the caps lock, and it's much faster to use Ctrl-F/B/N/P instead of the arrow keys (although I had to put a post-it note on my arrow keys for a while to force myself not to use it), and I can also press Ctrl-D to delete or Ctrl-H for backspace (although I still use the real backspace key fairly often). Unfortunately, since I use Windows at work, I have to make sure to switch back to arrow keys when using other apps--that's one nice thing about OS X is that the emacs-style arrow key bindings work in all applications. Another nice thing about that system is things like ctrl-K (delete to end of line).

Re:backspace should be on home row

[Chandon Seldon]

For tasks such as typing, your nervous system has an "action queue" - you decide which letters you are going to type about half a second before you actually type them. If you make no errors, you can keep up a constant speed much faster than a letter every half second - but every single letter error you make typing takes a long time to correct, reguardless of how quickly you can reach the backspace key.

• A typer typing at 40 WPM with no mistakes needs to type a bit over 3 characters per second to keep up that speed. (40 WPM * 5 letters/word = 200 / 60 secs/min = 3.3).
• If that same person instead makes a mistake every five words (like me), they instead need to type 5 characters per second to keep up that speed. (8 mistakes means 8 retyped words, so 48 words. It takes nearly a second and a half to detect and correct a mistake, so 60 - 12 = 48 seconds. 48 * 5 letters/word = 240 / 48 seconds/minute = 5 letters/second).

It seriously takes at least that long to detect and correct mistakes. Usually when I start hitting backspace when I notice a mistake, I've already typed four or five more letters - those letters need to be backspaced through and retyped. That's not even taking into account the fact that your typing rythm has been thrown completely off by trying to correct the mistake.

Re:backspace should be on home row

[Anonymous Coward]

Just something you might find interesting: I can usually detect my mistakes by feel, and correct them without looking at the keyboard. For example, I've been typing this message with my eyes closed, and despite making several mistakes and changing my mind about some phrasings, it looks pretty much perfect, doesn't it? (ok, I cheated: there was one typo I had to fix afterwards)

Re:backspace should be on home row

[markbthomas]

Sometimes you want to retype what^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H

You don't backspace over just err^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H

The time I spend correcting typos is dwarfed by the time I spend thinking about what I want to type.

Re:backspace should be on home row

[aug24]

I've thought for ages that the backspace key should be moved to take half the space of the space bar. If I could remove errors as fast as I could add spaces, I'd be laughing. I hardly ever make errors when typing english, but when I code and need to put in other characters, often I miss. The GP post is prolly right for pure English, but rubbish when you frequently need to use colons, semi-colons, dollars, quotes (both kinds) which the keyboard does not put within easy reach.

Also, I never use the right thumb when typing - the left does all the spaces. That's a complete waste of a digit!

Justin.

Re:backspace should be on home row

[bishiraver]

"Usually when I start hitting backspace when I notice a mistake, I've already typed four or five more letters - those letters need to be backspaced through and retyped." Or, do the smart thing and use the left arrow key, backspace, and then end. Left arrow key and end should be fairly close to your right pinky, anyway.

Re:backspace should be on home row

[Chandon Seldon]

It would take a lot of work to be able to touch type the left arrow key - and even then it wouldn't be reliable. If more applications supported standard (i.e. emacs) key bindings, it would be a much more feasible concept.

Re:backspace should be on home row

[lazybeam]

My uni had some Compaq keyboards where the space bar was split. There was some way to set the right one to backspace - something like holding down F10 when booting (no it wasn't in the BIOS). It was funny to watch someone type half an email "withounoticinthearpressinbackspacinsteaospace!"

Not sure what happened to those machines and/or keyboards, and I haven't ever seen them anywhere else.

Re:backspace should be on home row

[MSZ]

The time I spend correcting typos is dwarfed by the time I spend thinking about what I want to type.

Indeed, when I type, the limits on speed are not from the ability to hit the keys but rather from the fact, that I'm not copying someone's memo mindlessly. All this "I can type without looking" or "I can type gazillion WPM" etc are successes in the useless skill of mindless text copying. Something fit for the dumb secretary. Or the OCR program.

Speed typing contests are sooo 19th century...

Re:backspace should be on home row

[Chandon Seldon]

Usually, I type in bursts; I'll know the entire sentance (or line of code) that I want to type, and then I'll start typing it. It's true that the amount of speed I gain from being a fast typist doesn't increase my workrate significantly, but the fact that I don't need to think about the process of typing (i.e. where the keys are) because I'm a good typist does help.

No key faces = good for learning to type

[Anonymous Coward]

> I'm still skeptical of the advantage of all-black keys to those trying to learn to type (or improving their speed)

I originally learnt to type on the QWERTY (like most people). Before I switched to Dvorak I still kept peeking down at the keys every so often. Since switching I only look when I'm moving my fingers a relatively long distance to infrequently-typed keys (i.e. to random symbols).

I'd say not being able to see the key faces would be a great boon to learning to type well.

It may not be quite so practical if you forget QWERTY and then need to use it for live/installation CDs.

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[Aranth Brainfire]

"If you buy this product, the net result (over the alternative listed above) will be to simply annoy anyone else who uses your keyboard. If this is your goal, you NEED this product"

Not true- I once switched all the keys on my keyboard around semi-randomly (some can't fit in certain places and still function). Bothered the hell out of anyone who tried to use my keyboard- not only were the letters mislabelled, but they stuck out at odd angles and, unless you got used to it (only took about ten minutes for me), your fingers would end up tripping all over the place.

The Fujitsu FKB4726

[Phr3n3tik]

I'm surprised noone has mentioned Fujitsu Keyboards. YEARS ago, I found the Fujitsu FKB4726. It cost $80 when you could get a cheap KB for $15, and it was worth every penny. I still have the first one I bought, on my folk's home PC!

Stiff Mechanical Keyswitches, easy to find home row, and strong feedback.

In short, the best keyboard I've ever used. And I've used the M series Keyboards on 3720 mainframes too! (The ones with a relay in them to make the "click")

Re:The Fujitsu FKB4726

[Anonymous Coward]

Happy Hacking keyboards are fujitsu keyboards, I think

Re:The Fujitsu FKB4726

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm typing on one right now! Well, actually it's a FKB-4725.

Also, the old Dell "Professional" keyboards (Not the QuietKey ones) are very, very nice.

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[MichaelSmith]

to simply annoy anyone else who uses your keyboard.

I keep my mouse on the left and remap the buttons. Oh and Button3 on the title bar in fvwm does window close.

People know not to touch my workstation.

IBM PC Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck this nonsense. Just bring back the original IBM PC keyboard. NO, NOT THE AT KEYBOARD. The original PC keyboard (but with the current 104 layout), with the keycaps of the same materials. I make my living using them, and I'm willing to pay a few hundred bucks for their feel and quality. And I KNOW I'm not alone.

Meh...

[DrMcCoy]

...I'll keep my 20 years old Cherry G80-1000HFD, thanks...

It's all about Kinesis

[bunions]

http://kinesis-ergo.com/advantage_pro.htm

it's a nicer keyboard, it's hardware programmable, it's ergo-friendly and it'll scare strangers away from your terminal.

Sure, it's expensive, but for something my hands are on 8-10 hours a day, I don't mind paying for Quality.

Macintosh compatible

[Princeofcups]

So which is the Apple key?

jfs

Re:Macintosh compatible

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I was looking for the perfect keyboard and I found it: it is the iBook keyboard (or any recent portable Mac keyboard). Of course not the mechanics are what make it good, rather the huge touchpad. I don't have to release my right hand off the keyboard to reach the mouse and it is a boon when programming. Therefore I am looking for a desktop keyboard that has a touchpad built-in. Oh and with two-finger scrolling of course!

Better luck next year?

[Kaseijin]

Why can't people make a keyboard that has the feel of the old Model M without sounding like you're firing off a machine gun?

For one thing, the most obvious acoustic improvement to the buckling-spring keyswitch is patented by AT&T.

Finally not weighted!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm happy to see they've gotten rid of variably weighted keys. Now I can consider getting one.

I got one of the origional's for christmas

[bishiraver]

And it's one of the most comfortable keyboards I've ever typed on.

The different weights on the keys has reduces the strain on my hands, and I can now type for longer periods of time.

The lack of notation on the keyboard was disconcerting at first, but once I got used to it, has made me a better touch typist.

Since I received the keyboard, my typing has gone from ~80wpm up to around 95wpm. I can't imagine what I could do if I bit the bullet and switched to dvorak, a pleasantly easy thing to do on this keyboard seeing as there are no labels.

I love the old IBM clicky key feel, great tactile feedback. I have had no downsides to this keyboard, and no inconsistances; my cat even spilt a glass of water on it, and after a few days of drying it works perfectly. That was four months ago.

Esoteric keyboards

[ThousandStars]

While we're on the topic of esoteric keyboards, I'll throw a shout-out to the Matias Tactile Pro, a keyboard with mechanical keyswitches I very much enjoy.

Easiest Mod Ever

[OverDrive33]

Regular Keyboard - $9.99CAD
+
Can of black spray paint - $5.99CAD
+
20 minutes work
= This keyboard?

I fail to see how it's worth $90CAD?!

That's a lot of stroking

[A. Bosch]

"By using gold plated key switches, Das Keyboard is rated up to 50 Million key strokes where as regular keyboards barely reach 10 to 15" Yikes. By the time I hit that many keystrokes I hope I'm using a new computer. And it probably came with a keyboard.

Re:That's a lot of stroking

[Eideewt]

Didn't your current computer come with a keyboard? I don't think Das Keyboard is intended for the "stock keyboard" segment of the population.

My own review...

[SanityInAnarchy]

I did look at Das Keyboard, but I'm afraid it might turn out to be just like every other keyboard out there...

See, I have a 17" Powerbook G4. I love that keyboard. Looks great, backlit, plenty of space between the tops of the keys so I can feel the difference between one key and another, but the key go down with almost no resistance, it seems very solid so far (much like the rest of the machine), and my fingers can just slide over the tops of the keys. This is one thing I've found that dramatically speeds up my typing -- that slipperiness.

These are all things that most other people don't like in a keyboard, and I'll admit I've got my complaints. It's dumbed down. The Powerbook is easily wide enough to have a number pad in there, but that space is taken up by speakers instead -- and there are times I do use the number pad. Having only a Delete key, rather than Del/Backspace, is also annoying. And, of course, most annoying is the fact that the trackpad only has one button.

But I think if it weren't for the lack of a trackpad, I might try to figure out how to use that keyboard in my desktop, also. For plain, old-fashioned typing, I'm much faster on that keyboard than I am on this one, and my hands don't tire nearly as easily, since the keys require so little pressure.

The reason I'm posting this here is, I want a reasonably-priced USB keyboard with the layout of my standard desktop keyboard, but the feel of my Powerbook keyboard. Anyone know where I can find one?

Re:My own review...

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you completely. One of the things I noticed when I first switched over to my PowerBook is that its keyboard was one of the best I have ever used. I haven't formally monitored my typing speed at a normal keyboard verse a PowerBook keyboard, but I really love the feel of it and am extremely interested if anyone knows of an external keyboard with similar attributes.

Re:My own review...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Kensington SlimType is a lot like the PowerBook/MacBook Pro keyboards. Same scissor-key technology, same feel, and only $21 including shipping via pricegrabber.com. I just ordered one today! The Macally IceKey is similar too.

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[Locke2005]

To break yourself from looking at the keys, place a hand-towel or washcloth or something over your hands while you type.
But... if my wife catches me doing this, she'll just assume I'm surfing the 'net for porn again!

QUERTY?!?

[Locke2005]

I'd don't think I'd want to use a QUERTY keyboard... I'd keep accidentally hitting the U key when I meant W! Most keyboard I've seen say "QWERTY", not "QUERTY". You'd think you would have realized that as you were typing it!!!

Re:QUERTY?!?

[mkw87]

He didn't because, just like you, he kept hitting the U key instead of the W key.

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[knBIS]

i rearranged all the keys on my keyboard.. just use a screw driver or a dull knife to pop each one out and put it where ever you want. It has definately improved my typing ability and freaks out my friends when they try to use my computer :)

Touch Typing

[ShieldW0lf]

When I was in high school, typing class was a prerequisite for computer programming, and they had 30 typewriters in the class with no letters on the keys, just like these keyboards. Instead, there was a large diagram of the keyboard WITH the letters stuck on the front wall. If you couldn't remember where a letter was, you looked up at the board instead of down at your hands.

It made a huge difference learning to type. That's not just my opinion, everyone thought it was strange at first, but all agreed that it helped them learn.

When my daughter is older and has big enough hands to touch type rather than hunt and peck, I'll prob replace her keyboard with one of these and put a diagram on the wall next to her desk.

Re:Touch Typing

[numark]

When I was in keyboarding class about eight years ago, they actually made us cover up the keyboard with a piece of paper over our hands, and told us that we had to learn how to touch type from the beginning. Understandably, many of us grumbled for the first couple of weeks, but once we learned how to type without looking at the keyboard, it became a lot easier to get faster and more accurate. I probably wouldn't be anywhere near as fast as I am today if I hadn't had this method of teaching.

Re:Touch Typing

[Mahou]

wait, she's big enough to use a computer, and old enough to have her own computer, but somehow too small to learn how to type? we had typing in like 3rd grade, so i'm assuming "too small" would mean even younger than that. your kid has her own computer and she's not even in 2nd-3rd grade and has hands that can be used to make nanomachines? that just seems weird

Re:Touch Typing

[Agret]

It's pretty hard typing through paper. Why'd they put paper over the keys and not just remove the lettering with a solvent?

Re:Touch Typing

[Anonymous Coward]

She started playing with the computer when she was 2. Now she's 5 and has one of her own, but is still a little small to cover the home row.

OT: French Immersion

[Txiasaeia]

"I guess it's analagous to something we have in Canada known as "French immersion" - they put you into a French school where no one speaks (or is allowed to speak) English and supposedly you'll learn French much faster. This allows you to learn touch-typing faster? Dubious."

"Supposedly"? In which instance do you think that you'll pick up French faster: taking it for one hour a day, or for five hours a day? I took core French in high school and can construct two or three sentences. My wife went through French Immersion starting in Grade 4 and she's functionally bilingual (works at a French day care). So, not exactly a great example.

Re:OT: French Immersion

[Mahou]

"high school" vs "starting in Grade 4"

you can't really compare those. everybody learns any language better if they start as a little kid

Re:OT: French Immersion

[Txiasaeia]

I started core french when I was 12; my wife was 9. Not exactly apples to oranges, but I don't know a single person who took core french who can actually speak the language.

Re:OT: French Immersion

[Christopher Whitt]

Me.

Actually, I credit most of my (limited) conversational french to the 4 university courses I did, so I'm not really disagreeing with your point. However, I didn't go to a french immersion school and I can get by in Quebec, France or other french-speaking places.

C

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[bill_kress]

Or get together with (at least) 25 friends from school, each buy a cheap keyboard and swap so that all your keys are "A"'s and all the next guys are "B"'s.

Hell, keyboards are so cheap these days ($5 or less at a good sale) that you could spend the same as you would for Das Keyboard and actually spell your name out across the number row, and whatever arbitrary words you like across the rest of the keys.

Hmm, that's a good idea. Could even grind a few keys to make "blanks". Wonder how much I could sell "personalized" keyboards for...

100% blank? Not!

[IvyMike]

Look, I understand they need to brand their product. And sure, the KEYS are all blank. But the product advertises itself as "100% blank", and it's not! The "Das Keyboard" logo and the "Num Lock/Scroll Lock/Caps Lock" icons are there, uglifying the ninja cool factor. It's like making a ninja outfit... and then embroidering the word "NINJA" on the back of it. My request for "Das Keyboard 3": No markings of ANY sort on the front. (I guess if you HAD to put "Das Keyboard" on there somewhere: barely readable black ink on a black background is always cool.)

Timmy is on SERIOUS CRACK, this keyboard is GREAT!

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought the Das Keyboard II about a month ago. I've been looking around for a mech switch keyboard since 2000. All my carpel tunnel problems started when my last mech switch keyboard broke and I had to use those newer "softer" keyboads. The newer "softer" keyboards while less noisey make your fingers do more work. The mech ones spring back up so you just have to lightly tap them. Within a day of using the Das Keyboard II, all my carpel tunnel pain.. is GONE!

The only issue I have with the keyboard is that I discovered I looked at the keyboard to type passwords, so I had to rethink some of my passwords, thats more my problem than the keyboards though.

Forget ergonomic keyboards.. all you need is the Das Keyboard II. It rocks!

I actually bought mine too!

what's that sound?

[Anonymous Coward]

*fap fap fap*

The sound of 1000 lame product ideas being jerked off to by their creators at once.

What an utterly pointless product; nobody looks at the keyboard anyway while they type so what does it matter if it has letters or not. Also, from the site:

Mechanical Gold-Plated Key Switches

What wankey product does this remind you of? OH yeah, monster cables!! How about 100 bucks for a cable that has gold in it, just to put you in the same class of moron that buys those spinning hubcaps or puts spoilers on their cars.

FOUND THE REAL VERSION

[Foo2rama]

It is a Cherry G81-3000 or G83-6105 in 110 key trim instead of 104 or 105.

Re:FOUND THE REAL VERSION

[joseprio]

I own a G81-3000 myself (great keyboard, by the way). Although the shape and proportions are very similar, the leds panel is different, and the F and J keys are regular ones.

A link with photo: http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/classic-line/key board-standard-g81-3000.htm

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[holy_robot]

If your aim is to annoy, nothing beats a properly QWERTY labelled keyboard mapped to Dvorak.

Re:If you're not just concerned with "looking cool

[chryptic]

When I took typing back in high school the typewriters had all the keys painted black. It realy helped when copying text becuase you eventualy gave up looking down and kept your eyes on the book.

Wrong German

[Nahooda]

From their website:

"Therefore "Das Keyboard", the German word for "the keyboard" came up as a natural name."

If a German says "Keyboard", he usually refers to the music instrument. A computer keyboard is "Tastatur" in German.

So the name must be "Die Tastatur" ;-)

Re:Wrong German

[Anonymous Coward]

My wife (she's a German) agrees with you on this...

Agreed...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using Fujitsu 4700 models since about 1990, NOTHING else has the quality of their feel/response.

They're still made as well! Just a little tougher to find these days.

Try typing Dvorak on a QWERTY board...

[The_Incubator]

The keys aren't just blank, they have the *wrong* label. Whiny n00b.

Nick

Re:Try typing Dvorak on a QWERTY board...

[Compumyst]

Ummm... Out of utter curiosity, and a spare Qwerty keyboard, I actually turned one into a Dvorak keyboard. It was fun and all, but, while I haven't put the keys back, I've set my computer back to Qwerty mode. So I am actually typing Qwerty on a Dvorak keyboard.

Re:Try typing Dvorak on a QWERTY board...

[jman.org]

I'd purchased a Northgate OmniKey Ultra back in '89 when deciding to learn touch-typing. For an extra $18 you could get the Dvorak caps (which I did). DIP switches toggled between the modes (QWERTY, Dvorak standard, left & right hand).

Also around back then was Mavis Beacon v5, the last version that supported the Dvorak keyboard. Interestingly enough, these days she'll teach you Spanish, but not Dvorak!

Now I use any old keyboard, adding a mapping in 'doze or whatever op/sys I'm working in, if at a site where I'm visiting regularly

(I typically add it in as Swedish, because it's easy to show the staff at whatever office to look for the "SV" icon down in the tray & ALT-LEFT-SHIFT until it says "EN" in case I've accidentally left it in DV mode).

At home I use a MS Natural Elite. I haven't looked at the keys in quite some time.

It's a horrible design.

[Valdrax]

It's quite useful to those of us who have learned to type numbers well enough on the main keyboard that we don't need the separate numeric keypad.

I'll bet $20 that I (thanks to an old support job) or a few of my friends who are accountants can 10-key numbers on that little keypad far, far faster than you can reaching two rows up from the home row.

And it makes room on my keyboard drawer for the mouse; I can't stand having to move my right hand from the keyboard drawer to the desk surface to use the mouse, and keeping my hand that high using the mouse for an extended time causes me pain.

You'll spend $260 on a keyboard, and you won't splurge for a desk with a wider keyboard drawer?
That's messed up; I'm just saying.

Also, it's a terrible design in many other ways. What it does to function keys is horrible. Try hitting Alt-F4 without cramping your hands into an odd position. I'm not sure how you're supposed to get to PgUp, Home, etc., but if it's by hitting the "Fn" key, then it's a mighty retarded design decision to put the "Fn" key on the same side of the keyboard as those keys and thus prevent balanced use of the hands. Also, the reordering of symbol keys and the delete key would mess me up for weeks. Taking all of this and then hiding it by eliminating the legends on the keys is just masochistic. Plus, it's uses "electric capacitance" keys, which are simply inferior to mechanical swtich keys in my opinion.

Re:It's a horrible design.

[Eric Smith]

I'll bet $20 that I (thanks to an old support job) or a few of my friends who are accountants can 10-key numbers on that little keypad far, far faster than you can reaching two rows up from the home row.

I'm sure they can. That's not the point. Not everyone is an accountant.

You'll spend $260 on a keyboard, and you won't splurge for a desk with a wider keyboard drawer? That's messed up; I'm just saying.

I spent far more than that on my desk, and I like it fine. Having the non-keyboard drawers closer at hand is more valuable to me than having a wider keyboard drawer. Aside from which, a wider keyboard drawer and a keyboard with a numeric keypad would still require me to move my right hand further from the keyboard to use the mouse.

No one is trying to force a keyboard without a numeric keypad on you; I only dispute the claim that they aren't useful.

Plus, it's uses "electric capacitance" keys, which are simply inferior to mechanical swtich keys in my opinion.

Depending on your criteria, capacitive switches are either slightly worse than or slightly better than mechanical tactile switches (such as the Cherry brand keyswitches used in Das Keyboard), but they are FAR better than the rubber membranes used in almost all modern PC keyboards.

In the 1970s, capacitive keyswitches were generally considered better than most mechanical keyswitches. Keytronics built their reputation on capacitive keyboards, but more recently abandoned them in favor of the cheap rubber membranes.

For capacitive keyswitches:

• No electrical contact to wear out.
• Foam pad will eventually degrade (after more than ten years), but is easily replaced.
• Tactile feedback is not guaranteed to occur 100% correlated with electrical recognition, but is generally fairly close.
• Moderately expensive.

For mechanical keyswitches:

• Metal buckling dome or strip has hysteresis guaranteeing that tactile feedback and electric contact always occur together
• Buckling dome or strip will eventually fail. Entire keyswitch must be replaced.
• Usually louder click than other keyboard types
• Very expensive.

For rubber membrane keyboards:

• Mushy feel compared to individual keyswitches
• Tactile feedback, if present at all, is arbitrary; may occur without electrical connection, or electrical connection may occur without tactile feedback
• More contact bounce than keyswitches. Keyboard firmware has longer debounce interval to compensate, but this can miss real double keypresses by fast typists.
• Membrane wears out, necessitating replacement of entire keyboard
• Dirt cheap

SIIG MiniTouch Plus PS/2

[kriston]

I still maintain that the most perfect compact keyboard is the SIIG MiniTouch PS/2. It comes in black or grey. Just remap CTRL to CAPSLOCK and it's nearly perfect--even on MacOS X. It costs around $40 and just search for it on Yahoo Shopping or Froogle for the best price along with a PS/2-to-USB converter. For MacOS X the Hawking PS/2-to-USB converter is perfect for this keyboard. For full-sized keyboards any of the Memorex line are just fine. They all have full-sized CAPSLOCK keys which map perfectly to CTRL for Unix folks.

Enjoy!

Hey asshat!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you try linking the product in the review. Fucking retard.

Lost Opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I think they messed it up with the white print. Make it black instead (it'll still show) for more 'leet' factor. ;)

About $210 less than that

[DRM_is_Stupid]

Not as expensive:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000U1DJ 2

If you paid $259, you got ripped off.

Needs an idiot lights button

[barries]

All Das Keyboard II needs is a cheat switch: press it and a red led under every key would backlight the glyph(s) for that key so you can find the euro symbol.

- Barrie

Two keyboards at once

[joss]

This is offtopic, but while there are keyboard enthusiasts
out there, if I have a USB and a PS2 keyboard hooked up simultaneously,
does anyone know how to find out which was the last one to produce an event
either in windows or in Linux ?

I'm writing a moderately complicated application where it would make large productivity improvements if the user could use two keyboards simultaneously. One keyboard would be marked up with the functions assigned to each button.

So.. if there is a way of doing this, I would then modify the gui library [FLTK, but that's irrelevent] to distinguish the events - eg if someone clicked 'R' on the 2nd [3rd ??] keyboard then this could trigger a different action in the application than what happens if he clicks 'R' on the primary keyboard.

This would be a big performance win for many applications and far cheaper
than buying specialised input devices.

Anybody know how to do this ?

damning by faint praise...

[Random832]

it's now equal in keyfeel to the best keyboards I could find at local superstores,

Um.... ...right...

pass.

clickety click

[dodobh]

That sounds like bad news for those of us fixated on older keyboards for their superior hand-feel, but since we're not quite in the realm of IBM-style clackityclack keyswitches anyhow, that difference is fairly subtle

S click p click e click a click k click click f click o click r click y click o click u click r click s click e click l click f click . click

Maybe for you

[Paul Crowley]

I find that I sometimes hit backspace even when I'm not looking at the screen. I *know* I've made a mistake and correct it without breaking the flow of my typing.

That said, I might have a go at making the backspace key make a noise, so I have an incentive not to use it, and see what effect that has on my typing speed.

Rush Quote [ot]

[Spunk]

It's "...his mind is not for rent to any god or government".

I heart Rush.